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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is a man who's done it all,

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Speaker 1: agent manager presently a promoter as CEO of meter Lander Concerts,

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Speaker 1: Alex Hodges. Thank you, Bob, glad to be here. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what's the status of the concert business today? It's

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Speaker 1: it's robust. You always gotta look over your shoulder though

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Speaker 1: you never know when the economy or something else is

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Speaker 1: gonna fight you. But it's really strong right now. What

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Speaker 1: do you think accounts for that? I think a strong economy.

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Speaker 1: I think that people have a jingle in their pocket,

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Speaker 1: or that with job they'll spend money on entertainment. Okay.

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Speaker 1: That leads to the point where sometimes shows are put

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Speaker 1: on for put up for sale like over a year before.

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Speaker 1: Is that basically an economic thing? Hey, let's get the

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Speaker 1: money while they have it or what. It's a good question.

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Speaker 1: I think part of it is beat the competition, get

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Speaker 1: on sale early, uh, take money out of the market, um,

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Speaker 1: and all the other reasons. You know you're controlling somebody's money.

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Speaker 1: You got it in the bank. Okay. For those who

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Speaker 1: are unfamiliar, tell us more about the purview of needle

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Speaker 1: Leander Concerts for needle Lander Concerts part of a family

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Speaker 1: owned operation organization. UM. The needle Leander family started in

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Speaker 1: uh Detroit in the theater business in the early nineteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: So it's family owned and over a hundred years old

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Speaker 1: and not for sale. This is so there is a

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Speaker 1: certain sense of stability. That's right. It's a good thing,

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Speaker 1: unlike the rest of corporate America. UM. In the seventies,

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Speaker 1: Jimmie needle Lander Sr. Just to be clear, they left

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Speaker 1: the Midwest, and they're like the number one player on Broadway, right,

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Speaker 1: don't they have the most theaters? Well, they may not

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Speaker 1: have the most theaters, but I'll say the best and

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Speaker 1: they have not so it's pretty robust. Um. Um. They

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Speaker 1: have Broadway theaters in Chicago, London, New York, l A.

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Speaker 1: And interest in San Francisco. Uh in booking arrangements for

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Speaker 1: Broadway and other cities like Durham, North Carolina. Uh So

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Speaker 1: the Broadway peace is the bigger family. And we say

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Speaker 1: it's really the biggest Hamilton's please in the needle Leander Theater.

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Speaker 1: Yes and many. Okay, we're going back to Jimmy in

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Speaker 1: the seventies, so, uh, Jimmy Needle Lander and his brothers.

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Speaker 1: There was Robert and Harry and UH and um um

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Speaker 1: who else Joey and one other wasn't in the music

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Speaker 1: business Freddie Anyway, Jimmy need Landers sr. Uh went into

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Speaker 1: New York from from Detroit years ago to start and

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Speaker 1: challenge the Broadway scene in the in the city. In

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Speaker 1: the seventies, had an opportunity to work with Lost in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles with the city on reviving UH in recreating

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Speaker 1: or you know, building up the Greek Theater in l A.

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Speaker 1: Also had an opportunity to purchase the Pentageous Theater with

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Speaker 1: a local partner. So all of a sudden it was

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Speaker 1: do you want to go west? And I think Mr

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Speaker 1: needle Lander's friends all said, don't do it, You'll be

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Speaker 1: This's the stupidest thing, is terrible, But he'd done something

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Speaker 1: stupid before and it worked out okay. In the process,

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Speaker 1: they also built Amphitheaters, Popular Creek in Chicago, pin nob

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Speaker 1: Music Theater and in Clarkston, Michigan, which is Detroit, Mariweather

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Speaker 1: Post Pavilion, UH in Columbia, Maryland outside of Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: And between there in Baltimore and others and including Pacific

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Speaker 1: Amphitheater in Los Angeles. So the outdoor music, contemporary music

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Speaker 1: concert UM experience UM was really led by the Netherlander family. Really,

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Speaker 1: they were the first ones who were doing it before

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Speaker 1: it became a thing with Universal Conscience Center. Yes, UM.

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Speaker 1: After they really had this equation dominated, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people wanted to copy it. UM m C A Universal

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Speaker 1: Concerts competed, Pace Music competed out of Texas, and so

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Speaker 1: they became more UM. There's some historic venues of course,

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Speaker 1: Red Rocks in Denver, Tanglewood in Massachusetts. Tanglewood, mass to

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Speaker 1: choose it's UM UM Blossom Music Theater is pretty you know,

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Speaker 1: it's been around a long time in Cleveland. Some of

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Speaker 1: them then later came under m C A Universal Watch

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Speaker 1: and some were Needle Ender. They really they really changed

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Speaker 1: the model and everybody followed. Okay, so how long have

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Speaker 1: you been working for need Leander. Well, I've worked for

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Speaker 1: them twice and even work at this time. I came

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Speaker 1: back to the company in April of two thousand and seven. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so what are you concentrating on now? We're concentrating on

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Speaker 1: more venues to book uh, working as a as an

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Speaker 1: extension of the venue ownership and management. Sometimes we don't

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Speaker 1: own it, we don't manage it. It could be municipally owned,

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Speaker 1: it could be privately owned. Uh. And if we come

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Speaker 1: in and make a dedicated emphasis on booking it with

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Speaker 1: focus trying to you know, not just do an occasional

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Speaker 1: one off, but really concentrate as an advocate for a

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Speaker 1: venue in the market, we found out we can change

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Speaker 1: the landscape. Give me an example. Uh, there's several and

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Speaker 1: San Jose for example, it's a civic auditorium in San Jose.

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Speaker 1: It was essentially abandoned for concerts. How many Uh what's capacity?

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Speaker 1: Yea three thousand, so you can set it up a

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Speaker 1: little under or slightly more. There's a balcony. It's a

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Speaker 1: civic center from the thirties and it was in the

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Speaker 1: in the seventies into the eighties. Bill Graham tried to

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Speaker 1: do concerts there. Um. This the venue needed an uplift,

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Speaker 1: needed a lot of uplift in anyway, the Bill Graham

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Speaker 1: decided to not go back at a point and interestingly,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the shows that he did there were

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Speaker 1: booked by me and my agent career. Uh, so it

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Speaker 1: was it was kind of a loss of an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to play another date in the Bay Area when he

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Speaker 1: quit doing the midsize with the smaller, smaller spaces UM.

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Speaker 1: So fast forward all these years where it was essentially abandoned,

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Speaker 1: used for a minor league basketball experiment for a little while, useful,

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Speaker 1: some graduations, used for overflow for convention city convention UH business,

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Speaker 1: but primarily UM just an extra room in the city,

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Speaker 1: and the city recognized they needed to maybe consider renovating

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Speaker 1: UH put together a budget, and one of the things

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Speaker 1: when we were introduced to the venue in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight, and probably because no one was interested them,

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Speaker 1: the thing that caught my attention was was that the

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Speaker 1: city had spent a million dollars on a boiler. And

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Speaker 1: I'm going like, that's the last thing on my agenda,

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Speaker 1: but it's maybe should be the first, because it represents

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Speaker 1: a real commitment to the venue, you know, the underpinnings,

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Speaker 1: the infrastructure to make it work. If they would do

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Speaker 1: that that's not seen and not cosmetic, maybe they would

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Speaker 1: do a good job with the other amenities that would

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Speaker 1: make it a hospitable place for rock and roll bands.

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Speaker 1: How much money, So ultimately was the city's money or

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Speaker 1: need only enters, money, cities money. I did some uh

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Speaker 1: consulting for free, also contributed to pay some consultants to

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Speaker 1: help advise on certain specifics. And we started actually booking

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Speaker 1: during some of the construction in two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 1: And that was probably a little premature. Okay, you're the

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Speaker 1: exclusive booker for the building. We were, and now we're

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Speaker 1: the primary booker. But there's some other promoters, international promoters

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Speaker 1: and specialty promoters that do some shows, so we do

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Speaker 1: almost all. And how many shows this that we do, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, fifty shows. Uh, there's twelve months a year.

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Speaker 1: And uh, when when I spoke about turning a venue around, Uh,

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Speaker 1: that takes the money, It takes some vision, it takes

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Speaker 1: some uh staying power. When we did our first thirteen shows,

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Speaker 1: we lost on twelve. Really, why do you think that

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Speaker 1: was new unfamiliar or the familiarity content was not good? Actually,

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Speaker 1: after we satned the deal, was the first time I

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Speaker 1: read the Yelp reviews and they were terrible. You literally

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Speaker 1: had to turn it around. Oh goodness. I trusted my

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Speaker 1: vision though, and uh and Jimmy Nata Lander let me

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Speaker 1: keep going, which was terrific. So now it's a robust,

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Speaker 1: and we we were just doing a great job. You

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Speaker 1: don't make money on every show, but losing on twelve

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Speaker 1: by the thirteen was not good. So now we'll make

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Speaker 1: money on you know, almost all. So other than showing

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Speaker 1: that the building was new and booking good talent, what

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Speaker 1: else did need to Leander do to improve the situation?

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Speaker 1: What was need to leander special sauce, Well, we made

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Speaker 1: a lot of recommendations on making the consumer like interested

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Speaker 1: and and that included such important things as um um,

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Speaker 1: you know, ah, outlets in the dressing room so they

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Speaker 1: could tune a guitar, areas for the crew to work

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Speaker 1: behind the staging area to star dressing rooms, not one,

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Speaker 1: renovating the upstairs dressing rooms, and then outside in the hallways.

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Speaker 1: We thought, what's gonna make this appealing? That in you,

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Speaker 1: having been built in the thirties had a rich history,

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Speaker 1: so we thought about um, big life size posters framed

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Speaker 1: put on the walls. The memorialized the date that the

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Speaker 1: stars have been there. And it's pretty interesting when you've

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Speaker 1: realized that the who would played their Frank Sinatra played there, uh,

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Speaker 1: Barbra Streischan had played there, so um um, you know

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Speaker 1: Santana and UM, so many, so many others. But it's

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Speaker 1: all a long time ago, from the thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, seventies,

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Speaker 1: eighties and stopped. So we reincarnated the history, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the slogan legends played here and and uh, big

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Speaker 1: huge pictures. So all the fans come and they go wow.

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Speaker 1: They stand in front of it and take each other's pictures,

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Speaker 1: along with some historic great you know, artists rolling stones.

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Speaker 1: They'll stand in front of that and take pictures, so

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Speaker 1: that that liven the otherwise, you know, rather dull um,

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Speaker 1: you know, concourse and what other buildings you book in um.

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Speaker 1: Another story of of turning around is much more recent.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand thirteen, a winery and pass of Robles

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Speaker 1: built and opened a three thousand seats amphitheater um fixed

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Speaker 1: seats two thousand, one thousand long and on the pit

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Speaker 1: you can use it open pit or you can. In

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Speaker 1: any case, it was we we were interested, but the

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Speaker 1: the deal made did not provide, in my mind, an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to make money. So someone else went in there

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Speaker 1: and they lost a lot of money. Why did it not?

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Speaker 1: Uh was it not going to be profitable? Well, first

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Speaker 1: of all, it's new. Second, it's local. Asian is Pastor Robots.

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Speaker 1: That's not a big population, so you have to go

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Speaker 1: for those people aunt familiar. What's the closest big city

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Speaker 1: to the closest small big city is Sant Louis Obispo.

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Speaker 1: And how far is it from San Louis Bispo? You know,

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Speaker 1: call it fifteen miles, but hundred and four miles to Bakersfield,

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Speaker 1: a hundred and four miles to Fresno. So you've got

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Speaker 1: this gigantics center central part of the state, creating a

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Speaker 1: kind of what I call a triangle almost to get

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Speaker 1: people to come. And anything new then requires like you

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Speaker 1: gotta book it. Agents have to you know, accept the vision,

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Speaker 1: take a risk. You have to, we have to pay

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Speaker 1: for it, so it's all at our dollar risk. Then

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Speaker 1: then the fans don't know of it because it's new.

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Speaker 1: Uh So in this case, it was good to be

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Speaker 1: sucking in and we just did a great job. Also,

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Speaker 1: it took time. So last year twenty nineteen was the

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Speaker 1: first really robust, profitable, you know, uh bottom line profitable

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Speaker 1: year in uh in in Pastor Robels at Vena roeblassed

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Speaker 1: Amphitheater is fantastic venue, and now we we think we're there,

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Speaker 1: recognition from the fans, recognition from agents and managers and

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Speaker 1: artists and how many shows did you do there last year? Okay, now, uh,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the elephant in the room. Nider Lander

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Speaker 1: is big, but also there's Live Nation in a G.

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Speaker 1: How does need a leader fit in the landscape. Well,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about a very big elephant. Maybe too, there

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Speaker 1: is a couple of big elephants, and and uh it's interesting,

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Speaker 1: um uh those younger people in the industry who haven't

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Speaker 1: really experienced the days of the independent promoter in almost

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Speaker 1: every major city. In smaller cities, um, I really don't

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Speaker 1: know how the landscape has changed. So a young agent

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Speaker 1: will go, wow, I just got fifty tour offer from

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Speaker 1: Live Nation. That's uh, that's hard to compete with. And

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Speaker 1: and so we're trying to identifying markets and venues we

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Speaker 1: can work in and make the experience unique and then

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Speaker 1: just not lose the opportunities to the Live Nation or

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Speaker 1: the a G national tour. And there's a couple of

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Speaker 1: other things that have made it difficult, like the casino

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Speaker 1: business is unique and they can afford to pay artists

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Speaker 1: on another type of P and L than just looking

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Speaker 1: at ticket sales and then um um um there's fairs.

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Speaker 1: That's that's a unique animal. Not really competitive day to

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Speaker 1: day to what we do. Uh. So it's it's difficult.

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Speaker 1: I recommend to young agents stay an agent. Okay, since

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Speaker 1: you've done anything. You were born where I was born

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Speaker 1: in Decatur, Georgia in Emery hospital. What what was like

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Speaker 1: living in Georgia back then? Was it as southern as

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Speaker 1: we felt up north or what was going on? Of

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Speaker 1: course not? Uh, you know, major cities of major cities

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Speaker 1: with variety of population. Know why was deketor de Keta?

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Speaker 1: What was there that drove the Decatur. That's a good

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Speaker 1: question because I think, Uh, for years, I used to

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Speaker 1: just answer the question, where I'm from is Atlanta? So

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Speaker 1: Decatur is um, sort of a bedroom community of Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: but it was it was a county seat of De

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Speaker 1: Cabb County. So good schools, a lot of good schools,

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Speaker 1: amazing um high school football team, um and um. You know,

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Speaker 1: so you would ache to trolley or the bus or

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Speaker 1: an automobile to Atlanta for major shopping trips. But the

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Speaker 1: Decatur was very significantly important. And then years and years

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Speaker 1: and years ago, you know, train came through and stopped

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Speaker 1: and so forth. So it was it was a bustling,

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Speaker 1: bustling uh uh community. And so what'd your father do

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Speaker 1: for a living? My father, um was an executive at

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Speaker 1: a company called Pure Oil Company, and I think later

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Speaker 1: a lot of their stations in the Southeast and other

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Speaker 1: places gave way to Golf Oil. But he had been

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Speaker 1: he had It's interesting he had been uh uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: like oil and petroleum salesperson before the automobiles really proliferated,

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Speaker 1: and before there was a service station on every other corner.

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Speaker 1: Uh So when the world changed for automobiles, he was

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Speaker 1: in charge of the entire Southeast on a smaller company

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Speaker 1: called Wofford Oil, and they picked up a contract for

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Speaker 1: distribution of gas. And my father actually visited small towns

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Speaker 1: knocking on doors, meeting people at the barbershop, uh and saying,

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Speaker 1: you need a service station in your town. And he

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Speaker 1: did that all over the Southeast. So he was pretty

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Speaker 1: uh it was pretty interesting too to know that he

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Speaker 1: was a part of that, you know, before it was

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Speaker 1: at anything. Well, it's all so fascinating. Living in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: gas stations keep disappearing. I know now when you want

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Speaker 1: to get gas, you gotta think about where you're going.

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Speaker 1: There used to be a station on every corner. How

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Speaker 1: many kids in the family. I'm the baby of four brothers. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and the other three brothers, what are they up to?

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Speaker 1: So uh listen, I'm the baby, um four brothers. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm enough junior that I got the benefit of having

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Speaker 1: a four older brothers. How what was the gap between

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Speaker 1: my ma and my closest brother. He's eleven years older

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Speaker 1: and he's still kicking. And how about your old the

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Speaker 1: oldest brother, Um turned January the third, and he's still kicking.

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Speaker 1: How has he got all his marbles? He does remarkably

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Speaker 1: because my girlfriends marbles. I was talking to my mother

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Speaker 1: earlier than she's She knows who I am. But it's,

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Speaker 1: you know, getting got a bad it's it's it's you know,

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Speaker 1: to see the aging. You know, we have a mother

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Speaker 1: in law who's going through some issues. And but my

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Speaker 1: brothers did well. My old my second oldest brother did

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Speaker 1: nine and he was exhausted, really after being a caregiver

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Speaker 1: for his wife who had Alzheimer's. That's a tough one.

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Speaker 1: It's a long goodbye. And your other brother one was

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Speaker 1: a doctor. He was in the navy, you know, during

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Speaker 1: the World War Two. He was in the peace building

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Speaker 1: part of the navy. Uh as a Navy doctor stationed

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Speaker 1: in Japan. After the war was over, and he moved

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Speaker 1: around a lot. Uh then he settled in North Georgia,

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Speaker 1: uh as a you know, a country or a mountain doctor.

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Speaker 1: Now are you close with your brothers and real close? Okay,

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Speaker 1: what lessons did you learn from them? I don't have

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Speaker 1: any brothers, so being the youngest at having three older

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Speaker 1: brothers interesting. I had to speak at the brother who died.

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Speaker 1: I had to speak at his service, and at first

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Speaker 1: I couldn't think of a story. I mean, my mind

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Speaker 1: went blank. And uh, you know, so I wrote notes

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Speaker 1: on three by five cards in my practice in front

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Speaker 1: of my wife, and she said, very nice, but anybody

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Speaker 1: could say those generality these and and she was right.

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Speaker 1: She said, they need people need to hear some stories

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Speaker 1: that they have forgotten or never heard. And so um

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Speaker 1: I did it. I found found a way and it

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Speaker 1: triggered something that I started jotting down any story that

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Speaker 1: I had heard from the older brothers. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that my brothers carried over from my father

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Speaker 1: and my mother is when you're gonna do something, do

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Speaker 1: it right. Just do it right. That's the big message.

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Speaker 1: Don't shortcut it. Okay, So what kind of kid are you?

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Speaker 1: In school? Popular? Reasonably? I was a president of the

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Speaker 1: Hot Rods Club. What was that like? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: we uh we saw these uh thirty nine Ford coups

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Speaker 1: and we saw these and they had passed on and

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Speaker 1: we saw that people some race car guys. We're putting uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, chevallet motors in them, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was just kind of a cool thing. I think

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Speaker 1: drag racing had its moment at in in the in

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Speaker 1: the fifties, right in in early sixties maybe, so maybe

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Speaker 1: my parents kind of backed and gave us a garage

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Speaker 1: to work in. And I created at school a hot

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Speaker 1: rock club called the Idlers, and we had we took minutes,

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Speaker 1: we had rules, we had meetings and votes and all

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Speaker 1: kinds of stuff. And it was part of some of

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Speaker 1: the other experiences in school from my brothers and hearing

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Speaker 1: that they were in in uh you know, different classes

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Speaker 1: and clubs and so forth. So it's just a matter

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Speaker 1: of participation. And uh, I did build a hot rod. Okay,

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Speaker 1: tell me about your hot right. I belt it was uh,

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Speaker 1: no fenders, uh thirty four ford uh uh convertible H

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Speaker 1: might have been a Cooper originally, but no top when

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Speaker 1: I got it, and I put in a two eighty

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Speaker 1: three uh chevallet V eight engine to four barrel carburetors,

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Speaker 1: and I got it going where it was really drivable

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Speaker 1: and uh and and really pretty awesome and time around

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Speaker 1: out I went to college and uh so I went

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Speaker 1: to Mercery University. But what happened to the well, that's

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Speaker 1: that's part of it. What a parents do when kids

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Speaker 1: go to they sell something. So my hot rod was

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Speaker 1: put up for sale by my father, and a guy

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Speaker 1: came and got it. Our father wanted his garage back,

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Speaker 1: all right, I don't blame him. Um so, uh. The

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Speaker 1: fellow that bought it raced it and had race it.

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Speaker 1: He raced it and he brought to the house right

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Speaker 1: the door bell knocked on the door, met my father

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Speaker 1: and said your son might be happy to know, and

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Speaker 1: showed him a trophield winning a quarter track, you know. Right,

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Speaker 1: so that was cool. I just kind of felt good.

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Speaker 1: So you can do cars are all computer righted now?

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Speaker 1: But only speaking. You're completely familiar with how cars are.

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Speaker 1: That's why I have in truck was a Mustang engine

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Speaker 1: in it. How did you put the engine in? Now? Okay?

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Speaker 1: How often do you drive that? Once a week? Really?

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Speaker 1: What's that like? This is cool? You know, it looks,

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Speaker 1: it looks it's shiny, and it's black and it you know,

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Speaker 1: it looks pretty interesting. Cool and the big big white

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Speaker 1: walls and uh, nobody thinks that they think they don't

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Speaker 1: want to be behind me because I'll be real slow

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Speaker 1: and then I'm in front of everybody. And then but

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Speaker 1: that has pneumatic breaks. You have to stand on the

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Speaker 1: brakes right to stop it. Yesterday, We're pretty good, okay,

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Speaker 1: and you can down down shift. How many years? Three? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So Mercer College? What's that like? Well, Mercer University and

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Speaker 1: how I ended up deciding to go. There was one

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Speaker 1: brother went to Emory, one brother went to the University

358
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Speaker 1: of Georgia, one brother went to Georgia Tech. And in

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Speaker 1: Georgia there was four kind of major educational institutions there.

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Speaker 1: There's now more who have grown in their statue. But

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Speaker 1: that left Mercer and I applied for uh to Mercer,

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Speaker 1: I applied I made one application to one school. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Those days were different. Now you gotta kinda make, you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty applications. Anyway, I was, I learned what the word

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Speaker 1: tentative meant. So I got accepted. But the word tentative

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Speaker 1: was in this sentence, and I'm going, I really wish

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Speaker 1: I knew for sure. Uh. Anyway, I got into mercer

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Speaker 1: and it was it was a good experience and that

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Speaker 1: that uh Uh. Interestingly, this plays into my my brother's

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Speaker 1: at war uniform and uh in World War two, uh,

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Speaker 1: closest brother uniform and he was he got a bronze

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Speaker 1: bronze star for building schools in South Korea as they

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Speaker 1: were cleaning minds up, you know, and then building schools

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Speaker 1: and so uh, you know. And I'd worn uniform in

375
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Speaker 1: RTC in high school. I didn't want to do it again.

376
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Speaker 1: So first day of college, I get a letter from

377
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Speaker 1: high school buddy who had gone into the Marine Corps.

378
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Speaker 1: He wrote and said, dropped some class and go sign

379
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Speaker 1: up for r OTC. You do not want to be

380
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Speaker 1: an enlisted man in the service. And I did it.

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Speaker 1: So I wore a uniform in college one day that week,

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Speaker 1: and um, so you graduated, was there any war going

383
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Speaker 1: on when you graduated. Not really, I kind of missed.

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Speaker 1: I kind of I went. I guess I'm you know,

385
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: UH participated when during during the Cold War, mainly I

386
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: went to Turkey. I was near in Stanbull and that

387
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: was fun um almost two years, not quiet. And then

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Speaker 1: I came to California because everybody wants to go to California,

389
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Speaker 1: of course, and I got my orders for California to

390
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Speaker 1: Fort Irwin, and I don't know if you know where

391
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: it was. I didn't either, so so I looked it up.

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Speaker 1: Slap dab in the middle of the Mojave Desert. That's

393
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: a long beach. Okay. So in the old days, if

394
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: you were in r OTC okay, So then you had

395
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: to go in the army for two years after exactly, okay.

396
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: And that was the Army, not the Marine. I was

397
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Speaker 1: a finance officer in head of finance department. So I

398
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: had a nice office and you know, it's pretty pretty

399
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: pretty neat job. And what did you study at Mercer? Uh? Economics,

400
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Speaker 1: not just business vantage but economics, and what was the

401
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: plate history? Economics? History was my mind or the plan

402
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: was to go to law school, and uh, I did

403
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: for a little while. So really I didn't know that,

404
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: but I I you know, I was kind of schooled

405
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: out in a while. Oh man. I went to law school,

406
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: but I think at least two years off. It just

407
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: I didn't take any time off. And I also went

408
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: to summer school a lot, and I worked you know,

409
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: one or two jobs during summer school and all. And

410
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: I booked bands in that period too. In college. But

411
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: law school, I just was, I guess schooled out. So

412
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: I went to the dean and said I want to

413
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: drop out and he should stick out the quarter of

414
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: the semester. He said, you're doing better than you think

415
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: you are, because I was, you know, dean student all

416
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: the time and an undergraduate. H This was where the

417
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: law school, it was part of Mercer Walter F. George

418
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: School of Law, Mercer of School of Law. And uh

419
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: so I said, you know, i'll I'll uh good. He said,

420
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: you can always come back, but finish your finish this

421
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: great you know this period. Uh And I got okay marks,

422
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: you know, they were okay. It's not good enough for me,

423
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: but it was it was, you know, never any thought

424
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: about going back, of course, really, of course, but my

425
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: brothers told me something you're gonna make officers pay, You're

426
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: not gonna go back to school. How good was officers pay?

427
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: Pretty good when you've been selling shoes on Friday night

428
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: and Saturday afternoon for you know. Okay, So tell me

429
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: about big book and bands in college. I did get

430
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: started in that. Well, you know, I love music, popular music,

431
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: and I always always had a propensity to listen to

432
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: something that necessarily my older brothers didn't listen to or

433
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: parents didn't listen to. So like a lot of kids,

434
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: you know, you get your own bands, your own music,

435
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: and you And when I went off to college, you know,

436
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: I had my own music and and uh, but I

437
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: also something that plays a part, I think in my

438
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: overall career. I was exposed to an older generation of

439
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: music growing up and from my mother and my brother,

440
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: so already I was sore being various, you know, different

441
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: decades of music, not just mine but others, and uh,

442
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: and that and that's given me, uh, I think maybe

443
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: a pretty pretty good at appreciation of the of music

444
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: through the through the years. But anyway, I was um

445
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, we were turned fraternity brothers find

446
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: alta Thedo, uh Phil Walden and uh Phil. Phil was

447
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: a fraternity brother, Yes, while you were there, right, we

448
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: were five alta thedo and uh, and he was president

449
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: of the other class. I joined late. I didn't join

450
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: the fraternity of the first couple of years of of

451
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: mercer Um. But I was helping all of these guys.

452
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: And I had buddies that were five aults, including Phil,

453
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: and some of them I was helping study, and some

454
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: of them I was taking their money because I could

455
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: type and I was typing. So in any case, one

456
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: day after a history class, I'm standing in the hallway

457
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: and phills down the hall after another class and I

458
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: went down to the end of the hall and I

459
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: and I always remember this, uh, this conversation. Um. He

460
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: smoked cigarettes. I didn't, but in those days you weren't

461
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: bothered by people's cigarettes anywhere because everybody did. Um. But

462
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 1: he was lighting a cigarette and he had a little matchbook.

463
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: And you know, you always look to see if it's from,

464
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, a vacation in Miami, or you know something

465
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: on the massment or restaurant. And uh, there's an odd logo.

466
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: I said, what's that logo? He said, it's a it's

467
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: a designed a p W for Phil Walden and I'm

468
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: gonna book bands full time after classes and quit my

469
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: cousin's store. I'll go that's interesting, pretty pretty cool, right,

470
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: So chit chat right before class he said, when do

471
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: you get out of school? He said, I'm getting I'm

472
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: going to take an office over w IRBB Radio. And

473
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: I knew of that was because it was across the

474
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: street from an apartment complex that I had become the

475
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: resident manager on before I moved to another location, another apartment.

476
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: Where is Mercer Mercers in Making Maker, Georgia, right in

477
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: the center of the state and small still small, still small,

478
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: Making or Mercer Mercer is bigger than it was, Making

479
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: is still small. So what was Making like when you

480
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: were going to college? Probably a ninety thousand people and uh,

481
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,239
Speaker 1: you know, quite kind of quiet. Uh uh you know,

482
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: but it was the county seat to a bib county,

483
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, so it was just h you know, just

484
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: to kind of a you know, hallmark, small town little

485
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: college college. Interestingly, Mercy Makon now so had the first,

486
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: I think the first chartered woman's college in the world,

487
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: Westleyan really and making and uh rich rich history for

488
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: for westleyn in particular, and also for mercer. Um, so

489
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,479
Speaker 1: I'm standing wait, wait, wait, a couple of questions. How

490
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: far as mercer from Atlanta nine emails? Okay, how did

491
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: you meet Phil Walton? Never mind this episode with promotion,

492
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, in classes, hanging out talking about music. Was

493
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: he a charismatic guy? He was? He was? And then

494
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: for the fraternity he was, he was president and he

495
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: was pretty charismatic and an interesting guy. Um, a lot

496
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: of self confidence and uh, I don't know, we've struck up.

497
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: So he said, a kins right, and he said, okay,

498
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: when when do you classes that? What are you doing?

499
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: And I said, you know whatever time. He says, well,

500
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: I get out an hour earlier. And I have collected.

501
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: I've gone to the libraries and written down the addresses

502
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: of every school, every unity, every entertainment committee, and more

503
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: from the library, from the phone books that are in

504
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: the libraries. And he says, so I'm writing letters about

505
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: the bands. I'm going to book and I've got these

506
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: local musicians and they have names because they're all the bands.

507
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: You know, you can have a garage, man, you've got

508
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: to give it a name. So everybody had names of bands,

509
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: and they could also play anybody's music so the names

510
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: could change. Um in any case, Uh, he said, I

511
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: can't type, and I got to send these letters out.

512
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: And all the girls at the school want to come

513
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: down and do this. Uh, they're doing their thing. And

514
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: uh so instead of whatever I was getting for the

515
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: type in term papers, now I'm going to get something

516
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: for typing letters about bands. So Phil would write them

517
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: on this cheapest yellow pay people you could buy, and

518
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: I'd come down and uh type them and answer the

519
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: one phone. You know, actually we had I think two

520
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: phones and two numbers. There's no rolling over a conference calling.

521
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: It was just two numbers. And uh. He had bought

522
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: an old military desk and a couple of them, and

523
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,959
Speaker 1: I put Uh. I went and bought flat doors from

524
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: you know, Mountford doing yourself for the lumber company. And

525
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: I've varnished them and painted them and stained them. And

526
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: so we had two executive desks. So how long after

527
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: you started typing did he actually book a band? Well,

528
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 1: first I told I told Phil, when you go to lunch,

529
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: I'll answer the phone, but I'm not going to try

530
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: to book a band. And I have, you know, over

531
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: the years, mentoring some people in the business and not

532
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: everybody thinks that they can could sell and sell it. Um.

533
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: And I didn't think I could sell ladies shoes. I

534
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: could sell door to door. I could sell if I

535
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: could see somebody. But I didn't think I could sell

536
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: by listening to somebody and talking to them on the phone.

537
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: And then one day Phil had gone to pick up

538
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: some lunch and sandwiches for us, and I'm answering the

539
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: phone and they asked me about a band. And I've

540
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: been typing all the letters and I knew all the musicians,

541
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: and uh so I sell some guys, uh, some school

542
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: or band, and I'm going, gee, was that worked? And

543
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: you learned to listen, you know. I learned to listen

544
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: to my brothers and my mother learned a lot of

545
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: basic good life things. And I was always observing, you know,

546
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: my uncle and my brothers and other people in the school.

547
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: I had decided to be a good student, not a

548
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: bad one. So uh. Also my parents were helping. They

549
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: would pay for the books and tuition I paid for

550
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: over my my living in school. Um. The the idea

551
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: to sell on the telephone was really foreign. But you

552
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: learn how that you don't have to listen to yourself.

553
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: You learn you have to listen to the guy on

554
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: the other phone, on the other side of the phone

555
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: that you can't see, so you get no body language

556
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: except from voice. And it's really fascinating too to allow

557
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: void to be filled by one of the two of

558
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: us and find out the interest and somebody's going to

559
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 1: ask a question. I'm gonna just talk my head off

560
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: about the musicianship, wrong move. You talk a little bit

561
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: and then and then if the person on the other

562
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 1: end of the phone is interested, they'll ask a question

563
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: and that and they will create, you know, a good

564
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: exchange dialogue and you can almost vision your lies the

565
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: person on the other side of the phone. And I

566
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: think we missed that today with texting and emails to

567
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: to work through a problem on a band and routing

568
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 1: and so forth. It's just so much better if you're

569
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: talking on the phone. But that's but today, as another story,

570
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: how important was it to not talk business on the phone,

571
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: like talk about sports of the weather to try to

572
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: establish a rapport. Well, since the phones were a little

573
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: bit more expensive by the clock, Um, there was a

574
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: certain sense of efficiency that was needed. Um, you might

575
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: ask a question, you might say something, but that student

576
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: union person or or or fraternity person was really calling

577
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: with a with a purpose, so you had to stay

578
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: and you didn't didn't have that kind of of relationship

579
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: with them. Yet you might develop it and then you

580
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: would ask about the team of the football team at

581
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 1: that university and you have, but that was after you've

582
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: done business more than once. Really they were interested in

583
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: and uh, and there was a lot of interest I

584
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: think buying a band, but buying a band for the

585
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: Southern school of buying a band since somebody that was

586
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: in New York City, I mean, they didn't want to

587
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: buy from New York City. I think they felt like

588
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: they always had to until we started, and you had

589
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: no competition other than New York City. There was a

590
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: guy in uh in South Carolina who was booking cover

591
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: bands and and he was pretty successful with it. But

592
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: we thought we could do it differently more novel have

593
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: musicians around Macon who were really good and um, and

594
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: we did it. Uh, we weren't. We weren't in the

595
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: beach music. We were into what you would know as

596
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: rhythm and blues. Okay, but you're doing that, but then

597
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: you ultimately go into the army. Yeah, well, I'll tell you.

598
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: It was the army was good in several ways. How

599
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: did you tell Phil, Hey, I'm gonna go well, oh, interestingly,

600
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: Phil went the army first. So I got a letter

601
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 1: where Phil saying, you know, uh, in the Phil's Allan

602
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: Allan Walden, Alan Walden, Phil's younger brother came in to help.

603
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: And Phil's father Um retired from the cousins or whoever

604
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 1: owned the clothing store or a hat store, and uh,

605
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: he came in sometimes to help, and he established Alan.

606
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: Phil myself and C. B. Walden had a relationship with

607
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 1: an up and coming singer named Otis fretting. Okay, let's

608
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: slow down, but let me go back to Phil good

609
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: in the service a second. So here's Phil in the service.

610
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: He had a better gig than I did because he

611
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: was putting bands together in Europe. But I was a

612
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: fun dance guy when I went in. Anyway, Phils in Europe,

613
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: and the letters in the mail or all of his

614
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: visions back and forth letters, A few calls but not

615
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,959
Speaker 1: many to uh, you know, enhance the office or book

616
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: band or sign another band, and all of a sudden

617
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: things were more vibrant. Then he came back, but I

618
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: was transitioning to go in and we had you know,

619
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: i'll call it ten minutes of overlap. But and I was,

620
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: I was in the service. A considerable part of my

621
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: two years was when was when UH Phil had been back.

622
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: So Alan and myself book bands and Phil was in

623
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: the service, and Alan really carried carry the torch well

624
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: because then I had to go in the service and

625
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: I needed some money aside, a couple of other jobs

626
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 1: in addition, but hard to pay commissions at that level.

627
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: And then he just got better and it got a

628
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: little bit better. Then all of a sudden, I'm on

629
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: active duty and I'm shipped off to UH. I went

630
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: for Ben Harrison in Indiana Indian Indianapolis, Indiana was first

631
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 1: and my wasn' a very good student in finance class.

632
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: They called me lieutenant sleepy um. But uh so they

633
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: sent me to the one of the more remote places

634
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: outside of Turkey. And the guy that I replaced, who

635
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: was going to teach me everything, had already been gone

636
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 1: for two weeks. So here I'm a lieutenant, I'm ahead

637
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: of a finance unit. I've got five people who work

638
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: for me, and I know nothing. And it was more

639
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: interesting than that because this particular unit part of NATO.

640
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: I guess anyway, um tooth log Turkish US logistics. Wow.

641
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: I reported Air Force and I reported the Army. But

642
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: I was an Army officer. The cool thing about that

643
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: I got to go to meetings in Heidelberg and I

644
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: got to go to meetings in Athens, Greece. So that

645
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: was it was pretty cool yet pretty large. Okay, yeah,

646
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: but Phil was back and when I was in the service,

647
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: he and his brother would send me albums and they

648
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: were signing bands, and Ortis Redding was becoming a star.

649
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: I mean a really just sit down for a second. One.

650
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: When you're in the Army, do you think when you're done,

651
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 1: you're gonna go back to work with these characters? That

652
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,919
Speaker 1: was Phil's idea while he was in the service, and

653
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: he and I still have the letter that he wrote

654
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: with that vision. Did I believe in it? No? I

655
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: thought I'd go back to law school. Okay, was making

656
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 1: known as a musicians hangout, musicians town. No, so how

657
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: did you meet Otis Redding? And with one exception, a

658
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: little Richard to come from the All right, but when

659
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: you look at Georgia and Racharles had come from Albany. Uh,

660
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: James Brown was in augusta little Richard had been in

661
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: making and he moved to California, and then this uh

662
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: young artist was starting to take off. And what it

663
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: took was a combination of vision and energy from some

664
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: young guys and a similarly aged young musician, uh who

665
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: were serious about his career and could envision getting bigger

666
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 1: whatever that might mean. Uh. So that's Otis and Phil

667
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: and me and Allen. Okay, so Otis was from making

668
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 1: Yes and maybe Hawkinsville right out and when you signed him,

669
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 1: what was his level of reach? Well when when Philing

670
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: known him even before my going in and open letters.

671
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: So Otis was sort of the catalyst for a lot

672
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: of the musicians because it's such a good singer. But

673
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: Phil had a lot of confidence in the career of

674
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: a of another musician, a left handed guitar player named

675
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: Johnny Jenkins who never really made it right became a

676
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: big studio musician. Not so much, not so much. Why

677
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: do you think Johnny Jenkins didn't make it? I think

678
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: it was had to do with being in the cups, uh,

679
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:34,879
Speaker 1: which means drinking, and he just he was an emotional guy.

680
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: He was a great guy. Um, you know, he wasn't

681
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: a you know, you know, like a irresponsible oddeball. But

682
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: he but he couldn't. He didn't have quite the drive

683
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: of the discipline in the in the in the self

684
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: discipline that you need to have. Okay, so you're in

685
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: the army. He's selling sending you these records. He's sending

686
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: you what kind of record? Well, it's pretty cool because

687
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: because the adjutant of my post it told me that,

688
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, the commander wouldn't let you go out on

689
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: the sign out on the weekends because we were kind

690
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: of remote. And uh, he picked me up in a

691
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: personal car for door chevallet and I said, how you

692
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: get a personal car? Overefe says, I'll tell you all

693
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: about that later. And you can fill out papers and

694
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: have a car shipped over and then you sell it

695
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: and then it becomes a taxi cab. But anyway, I

696
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: looked over in the back seat. I was telling me,

697
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: uh that I was going to just be in my

698
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 1: in my quarters and in my room for the next

699
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: year and a half. And I'm and I'm going like, wow,

700
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: you got a Ray Charles album on the back seat

701
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 1: of your car. You know he's from Georgia. Even though

702
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: he's living in California. Ray Charles is awesome. He says, oh,

703
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: how I made up? You know, told him I was

704
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 1: story and I said it was a young musician that

705
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 1: uh is uh it's taken hold and uh as these

706
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: arms of mine and pain in my heart. I've already

707
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: been out and had some traction said you ever heard

708
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: of votice reading? And I don't. I don't remember his answer,

709
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: but it started a friendship between me and this captain.

710
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: So here, I'm a young, you know, white lieutenant, and

711
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: he's an African American captain from Los Angeles, and we're

712
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: stationed in the middle of nowhere in Turkey, but it's

713
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 1: not the middle of nowhere because we're only twenty eight

714
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: miles from Misson Bulls. Okay. He ultimately let you out

715
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: on the weekends, he and he would tell the commander

716
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: only Lieutenant Hodges has requested. So we would go to

717
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: embassy parties and I would take the albums Sam and

718
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: Dave and all of these really cool albums from Stacks

719
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: Records that Phil would send me. And I take these

720
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: records and you put them on and they were vinyl,

721
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it was just like a cool

722
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: it was a cool deal, um and fun and you

723
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: know some histon bullism metropolis and attracts a lot of

724
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: interesting people, and you know, an author like James Baldwin

725
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: would be at one and just different, different people and

726
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: of course girls too, and it was and it was,

727
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: it was cool. So I had this outlet, and I

728
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: had a pal who had you know, he was in

729
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: the in the chain of command. It was, it was.

730
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 1: It was a good deal, and I had a good staff,

731
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: and I did get my four door chevallet over there,

732
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: so it was great. And then I put in for

733
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: change to orders to go to California, and I asked

734
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: for Presidio San Francisco Ford order up that way, uh,

735
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 1: because you know, young kid growing up in Georgia wants

736
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: to come to California. Of course. So anyway, I got orders,

737
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: and I asked somebody, you know, Ford Irwin, and when

738
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: officer said, uh, I was stationed there. Let me tell

739
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: you the good and the bad, he said, And then

740
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: he said here's the bad. I said, you never finished

741
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: the good, he said, he said, there isn't it. But

742
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: it was okay. Actually I had a good time. I

743
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 1: replaced a major in his position, took over a failing

744
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: finance office passed. UH. Mustard got the civilian troops and

745
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 1: the civilian employees in line. UH taught them what they're

746
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: supposed to know that I didn't know by reading and

747
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: talking to them. And then the military guys had a

748
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 1: good relationship with with every level. UH, and I was

749
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: I was now a first lieutenant, had replaced a major,

750
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: and UM it was. It was pretty cool. So I'd

751
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: come to UH. I'd come into Los Angeles almost every

752
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: week INN. But there was one weekend when I said

753
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 1: I was going to go to Los Angeles and the

754
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 1: commander had sent somebody to tell me. I was invited

755
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 1: to the Officers Club for New Year's Day for a

756
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 1: special brunch. And I announced that I was going to

757
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 1: be in Los Angeles on New Year's even I wouldn't

758
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: be able to make it. And the gentleman said, have

759
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: you ever heard of command performance? And I go, that

760
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: means I have to And he said you have dressed blues,

761
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: don't you? And that was the dress blue uniform and

762
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: so forth. So I don't remember if I went to

763
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: l A and then made it, but I did make it. UH.

764
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: Maybe I canceled LA. I can't imagine at that age

765
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: I would have canceled l a trip um but it was.

766
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 1: It was good and uh even even uh, I think

767
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: I think a part I was I'm kind of missing

768
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 1: here is that when I was transitioning from Turkey and

769
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: visiting home in Georgia and family filling and Alan asked

770
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: me to drop down to making and uh, you know,

771
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: ninety miles getting the car, drive down seeing Uncle, see

772
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: Phil and Allen, and everybody's driving these brand new Thunderbirds

773
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: and cool cars, and I'm going, what in the world.

774
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: They said, you you just can't. You had to come

775
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,919
Speaker 1: see it, and that's what they had said, You've got

776
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 1: to drive down here and see it. And it's just wow.

777
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: They had bought an office building which had been a

778
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: chicken cleaning and selling. You know, the basement was feathers

779
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: and but they'd already cleaned it up and it was

780
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 1: a gorgeous two story basement story in one street level

781
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: offices for Otis, for Phil, for Alan, uh, for another

782
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: booker and is like, wow, So here's your salary when

783
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: you get out, and you'll go pick out the best

784
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: furniture at the furniture store and you'll have enough money

785
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: about a new car, and when do you get out

786
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: of the service. So probably when I finally got out

787
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: of the service, I just probably went home for a

788
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: week and then down to making. And that was what

789
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 1: that was. What year in in sixty seven? Sixty seven? Okay,

790
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: so spring, spring, late winter and spring sixty and so

791
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: what's going on there at Phil Walden making in sixty seven? Uh,

792
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: otis was just getting bigger about a minute. Um, Sam

793
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: and Dave had been signed, Eddie Floyd was the song

794
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 1: knock on Wood had been signed, Percy Sledge was signed

795
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: out of Alabama, and uh with the best version of

796
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: When a Man Loves a Woman? Uh. Great, And I

797
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: had a conversation with Michael Bolton one night about about

798
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: Percy and that song. It was just you know, it

799
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: was just nice. And Uh anyway, um brother artists. Otis

800
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: had discovered a young singer I think maybe out of

801
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: Baltimore area, UH named Arthur Connolly, and Otis wrote sweet

802
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: soul music for him. So we had a hit. And

803
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: Phil and Phil had struck up a relationship with Clarence Carter.

804
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 1: Uh he had a number one hit. Funny back then

805
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: sometimes the number one hit was the B side. Now

806
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: they quit doing that A side and B side, And

807
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 1: it's probably a mistake because several number one hits were

808
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: not intended back in those days. So it was pretty cool. Anyway,

809
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: things were rolling, they were really really uh great interesting

810
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:13,280
Speaker 1: and uh so I didn't go back to Mercer law school.

811
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: And you're working there, and what do you You're selling

812
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: bands at that point, you're involved in management. What are

813
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 1: you doing out phil as a manager? Uh? With a

814
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: dream of having a label and filling and filling. Otis

815
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:30,879
Speaker 1: had a publishing together and and I was a book

816
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: or an agent. No, that was it, you know, at

817
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 1: a job and a good job and paying more than

818
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:41,959
Speaker 1: an army and so uh, Otis dies, what is what's

819
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: that like? Well, the weekend of that trip, I had

820
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: booked the tour. Uh it was a weekend to what

821
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: was at this moment Otis was doing uh you know,

822
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: like a few dates and then taking them, you know,

823
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: a week off or something. And I was supposed to

824
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: go with him on Friday, and and I had some

825
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: trouble on a tour. I had my bagpacked at the office.

826
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,479
Speaker 1: He came into the office, he said, are you ready

827
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: to go? And I said, I can't. I got some Uh,

828
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: I just got work to do and uh, um, solving

829
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: a routing problem or something with a promoter or a

830
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: band or I don't even have any idea what it was,

831
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 1: but you know, duty calls and uh Otis said, uh, uh,

832
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: I'll see you. He had to go to Memphis and

833
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 1: doing a little bit more overdubbing, and he said, I'll

834
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: see you Monday and next weekend we'll take the plane

835
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: go to the Bahamas. And Sunday night, I'm in my apartment.

836
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: I got the call asking what city Otis was to

837
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 1: be in, and they wanted some extra verification of you

838
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: know that it was this plane that I crashed, and

839
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 1: like Manona, Wisconsin, there you go. I stayed on for

840
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: a while. Sam and Dave were hot. But the spirit,

841
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 1: the mood, the spirit, energy, the emotional content inside you

842
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: changed and I wouldn't got a suit and tie job,

843
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 1: which was what helping some people run for election in

844
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: the South. Um, and uh yeah, I'll moved to Atlanta

845
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: and uh you know it was you know, interesting stuff, um,

846
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: closer to the family. Um. And then Phil and I

847
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: would keep in touch and go to lunch on occasion

848
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 1: on a Saturday in Atlanta, he started dating a girl

849
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and fast forward about two years. He brought

850
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:05,439
Speaker 1: me uh ascetate, which is uh, you know, pressing test

851
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 1: pressing for an album, white label, Nope, no art, see

852
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: go home, listen to this. If you like it, we'll

853
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: go see the band play tomorrow night. So I didn't

854
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: go out that night and listen or maybe out of

855
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: day or something. I don't know, but I listened to

856
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: the album like all day and all day Sunday and

857
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: uh and uh. It was first album of the Owner

858
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: Brothers band. So I said, I can be back in

859
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: making on such and such a day. You know. I

860
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: was like, crazy, how do you make a decision like

861
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: that off of one album? That's because you're in your

862
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: twenties different and also you could live on a lot

863
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: less money today people don't take those risks. They don't.

864
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: So you go to work with the Almond Brothers. Now

865
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: he's got his evil Capricorn through Atlantic Records, and what

866
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: are you doing? Well? Interesting on Capricorn, uh and Atlantic

867
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: Records in the label and the Almond Brothers. It had

868
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: gone back. It really still had an association with Muscle

869
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: shoals and and not really stacked, but Atlantic and Jerry

870
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: Wexler had said to feel, you know, I want to

871
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: introduce you to Dwayne Alman. And then Dwayne wanted to

872
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: do a band. They had had had bands, the guys

873
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: that had some bands before and playing in Florida in

874
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: different places and and uh but nothing really really stuck.

875
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: And Dwayne was having this great experience and and enhanced reputation,

876
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: you know from his studio work pretty amazing, and uh

877
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: so then they put together the Almer Brothers band. I

878
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: think in originally they thought Dwayne could sing, but but

879
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: he could, saying they needed they needed his brother. Um

880
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 1: so I was. I went down as a part owner

881
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: of an old reincarnated but therefore a new agency and

882
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: came up with a new name and called it Paragon Agency.

883
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: And uh uh still had an R and B roster

884
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: still in Percy Sledge, I think Arthur Connelly, um Clarence

885
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: Carter and Candy State and signed Tyrone Davis and had

886
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: Joe Simon. And that's interesting because I put Joe Simon

887
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: out on the road room several bookings and a week

888
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: later he and his brother walked in my office with

889
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: a with uh you know, like like eight foot by

890
00:59:54,160 --> 01:00:02,479
Speaker 1: five ft you know, big plowwood looking your board. Upon

891
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: the board was a fixed a map. It was the

892
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: United States largest United States highway map I've seen maybe

893
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: since the you know, I don't know, but huge map.

894
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: And they said this is for you because I had

895
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: stretched the driving between two gigs a little too far.

896
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: They made it, but they didn't want to do it again.

897
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: Routing is an art at several levels, and uh, and

898
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: that was good. I knew it, but I probably knew

899
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 1: I was pushing the envelope and they accepted it. So

900
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 1: in the band that, you know, and the artist accepts it,

901
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,439
Speaker 1: you go. They accepted it. But it wasn't a time

902
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 1: to argue about that. They didn't even complain. They brought

903
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: me a map. So how long are you at the

904
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: Paragraph Agency? Well, it was as as I said, it

905
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: was kind of the old agency because interestingly, uh Otis

906
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 1: Redding's brother had, after Otis died, had joined to be

907
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: an agent. And that was waldin artist's promotions. But when

908
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 1: I came back in seventy and we you know, it

909
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: took over, took some ownership and renamed it and you know,

910
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: mapped down a new mission, uh, naming it Paragon. That

911
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 1: would have been in uh in the spring of seventy

912
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: and um we we found that some musicians were just

913
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 1: getting in a van and coming to making because they

914
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: wanted an opportunity to record. Even though there had been

915
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: muscle shows and so forth. This was looked upon as

916
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 1: new and fresh to a lot of young, aspiring, aspiring

917
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 1: rock bands. Um so there was a studio in addition, Yeah,

918
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: so Phil and Frank Finter had opened the studio of

919
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,959
Speaker 1: Capricorn Records, and so what Willie, for example, drove over

920
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: from Alabama and other bands and musicians started accumulating. Dwayne

921
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: had his reputation, and then the Allman Brothers first album

922
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: came out. But even as it's almost simultaneously, all of

923
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 1: these things were happening, and musicians showing up, and even

924
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: parents coming in and bringing their young young musicians down.

925
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 1: And one of the things I noticed in in in

926
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: all of those uh you know, uh, aspiration from the

927
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: young musicians, the better the presentation from them and their

928
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: brother or manager or parents was the worst of music

929
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: was I find the same thing the people who said

930
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: to the really long emails are terrible in real life people,

931
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 1: is like one sentence. In real life you could talk

932
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: for hours. The best musicians didn't have the greatest presentation,

933
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: and it was interesting. And then so Capricorn was signing bands.

934
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: I was listening to them and listening to the demos

935
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: and listening to the product and making some you know,

936
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: some subjective judgment on whether they could be good. Then

937
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: I would go see him in the club, and then

938
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: that would add to my sense of confidence that they

939
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 1: could make it. I found two. It's like oversimplification, but

940
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 1: sometimes you look at a band play and you see

941
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: two bands, but only one on stage a little bit slower.

942
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: What are we saying? So? And that's why this is

943
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: a This is isn't as complicated as it sounds. You

944
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: see a band and it doesn't work, but they're all good,

945
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 1: so you're just going like, wow, it doesn't work. They

946
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 1: don't jell together. I don't seem they have a sense

947
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: of who they are as a band. So maybe one

948
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: of the musicians will end up being the road manager

949
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: and they'll reform, and sometimes they'll just split up. But

950
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: you have to you can you can sense it whether

951
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: they have the right commitment and whether they have the

952
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 1: right chemistry. And I'll get I'll tell you this. It

953
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: was an interesting thing. I don't remember this very often

954
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: or or say it, but I'm sitting with Phil one

955
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: day in his office and Dwayne had been in Florida. Um,

956
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 1: but Eric Clapton on the session for Layla and uh

957
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: ah he came in and uh. He started talking about

958
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: musicians and showing us a couple of snapshots he had

959
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: had one I think with it with Eric and uh

960
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 1: and spoke about James Taylor and his complexity of his

961
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: music and the beauty of it, which which was just

962
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 1: a great conversation. You talk about his band and that

963
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: they were a little tired, have to come off the

964
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: road baby pretty soon for a couple of weeks and

965
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:26,439
Speaker 1: to get some rest and um, and another musician came

966
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: in and was struggling in another band, and uh, the

967
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: side conversation was Dwayne said to the other guy, he said,

968
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: keep playing. If you play long enough, you'll find the

969
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: guys you're supposed to play with. Wow. Powerful, and that

970
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: explains my you know, simple oversimplification and sounds complex of

971
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: see a band playing on stage and there and they're green,

972
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 1: and you just sent that they're all good. They should

973
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: probably find other guys to play with. And uh. Anyway,

974
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: we you know, the Marshall Tucker Band came through Macon.

975
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: Phil and Frank Finner were considering offers to sell some

976
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: masters in bands before the big push would be would come,

977
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 1: and I remember saying, uh, uh, this song, can't you

978
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 1: see for Marshall Tucker Man is gonna be a live

979
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: performance anthem. Whether you make it a hit or whether

980
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 1: or not. I think that that song alone and the

981
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 1: songwriting of toy carwell you you gotta keep this band, um,

982
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: you know. And the rest is known of course, but

983
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's just just a great time. What Willie

984
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: came played in a tent uh at Alex Cooley's Atlanta

985
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: Pop Festival and on the night before and I don't

986
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 1: know if they had a spot on the stage during

987
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 1: the festival, but I saw them entertaining all of the workers,

988
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: uh you know, for the food break and stuff on

989
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: the night before to set up, and I thought this

990
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: one's pretty interesting. And uh so, you know, uh, Phil

991
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: and Frank signed wet Willie ban um, you know, just

992
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting stuff. And Chuck Levell, who I

993
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 1: think everybody knows from from his keyboard work with the

994
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 1: Armer Brothers and also currently and for many many years

995
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: now with the Rolling Stones, he had a band and

996
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: he had come over and uh, you know it was

997
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 1: just his talent was remarkable. His first band with Capricorn

998
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: didn't didn't go anywhere. He laughs about it, but it

999
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 1: uh uh you know they were probably better than you think.

1000
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 1: But again it did it didn't work, but but he

1001
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 1: was so amazing that uh, you know, what a what

1002
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: a great guy and what a great career. So there's

1003
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 1: so many others and we kept the R and B roster,

1004
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:20,480
Speaker 1: and I kept signing people and uh and Los Angeles

1005
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: resident singer songwriter uh named Bobby Walmac had recorded in

1006
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 1: uh in Alabama. Um, and I guess it must have shows,

1007
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:36,679
Speaker 1: I think and uh probably with Rick Holds, guy's gonna

1008
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:41,640
Speaker 1: look all that stuff up. UM. So Bobby, we invited

1009
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 1: or found a way to invite Bobby Warmack over to

1010
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:47,800
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, I mean over to excuse me over to

1011
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 1: making and uh and I told him I could put

1012
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,719
Speaker 1: a band behind him and he wouldn't have to worry

1013
01:08:54,760 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 1: about being the you know, the the the band wouldn't

1014
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 1: have to worry about the band because he'd been in

1015
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,600
Speaker 1: bands and he with his brother and the Valentinos and

1016
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 1: Cleveland and and what a remarkable history. And Bobby and

1017
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: I struck up a friendship and I put some regional

1018
01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: bands with Independent on where I was going to book him,

1019
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 1: and then he got the Santana tour one year and

1020
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 1: that was great. But he had some uh, some great,

1021
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:28,720
Speaker 1: great recordings, you know. Part of part of that was

1022
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 1: that we I'd always felt from the early days that

1023
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:39,639
Speaker 1: if you have uh, if you're having success, you want

1024
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 1: to keep it and be you gotta look for maybe

1025
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:48,719
Speaker 1: the next challenge to go along with it. And uh,

1026
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 1: and that's just been uh, if you sit on status quote,

1027
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 1: it's not so good. And that goes to the band,

1028
01:09:55,720 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 1: the songwriter, the publisher, and for a an agent. And

1029
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:07,760
Speaker 1: so Paragon had a good basically a ten year run. Uh.

1030
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: And then something happened and I made a decision to

1031
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: start a new agency in uh night UH and I

1032
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:22,600
Speaker 1: named it uh Empire Agency and no particular reason, but

1033
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: Atlanta was the uh uh kind of empire city of

1034
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: the South. And but I started it in making out

1035
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: of my home. Um and Okay, what what actually happened?

1036
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 1: Why did you break away? They'll break away from was

1037
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:50,559
Speaker 1: happening organically? Not any cause or intent on my part.

1038
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 1: I would have been happy if we had had a

1039
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 1: twenty year career together, you know, with with Phil or

1040
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 1: Capricorn Paragon Agency. In fact, we should have or it

1041
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: should have been a thirty years um. But things occur,

1042
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 1: driven sometimes by success and not opening your mind up

1043
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 1: to new ideas and music. And I think Phil had

1044
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 1: a moment of getting stale, and he had a moment

1045
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: of of the excesses of success taking over. So lo

1046
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 1: and behold. I get a phone call from an accountant saying,

1047
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:37,680
Speaker 1: better bring your own accountant in. I got you. That

1048
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:43,600
Speaker 1: pretty much tells the story. So you're you're in Atlanta

1049
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 1: with the Empire. So who your acts? Then? So when

1050
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 1: I started in, I signed UMU, the all my brothers,

1051
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: mand the Charlie daniels Man who had been my client before,

1052
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: UM Atlanta Rhythm Section, a member of the Outlaws for

1053
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 1: a little while, and U UM whom I missing, you know,

1054
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 1: maybe one more band. But we we started small and

1055
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 1: started out of my house in Bcon and a young

1056
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 1: woman who had been working at Capricorn or Phil Wallons

1057
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 1: management company was out of a job, and I thought

1058
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,640
Speaker 1: she was an amazing talent and she came over to

1059
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,800
Speaker 1: help me with some books as I was closing up

1060
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 1: the Paragon days. And her name was Carol Kensel. So

1061
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: Carol uh came in to work in my living room

1062
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: and I worked in the four year or vice versa,

1063
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: and my secretary came and worked in the hallway, and

1064
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 1: my son sat on the steps and tried to mimic us,

1065
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: and my wife made lunch. And that started Empire Agency

1066
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: and the first big tour I book. Then Charlie Daniels

1067
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 1: broke his arm on his farm and I had to

1068
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 1: cancel the whole thing. Now here we're starting a new company,

1069
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it's like how do you how

1070
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:19,759
Speaker 1: do you you know, get by? And all my brothers

1071
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 1: were known for their taking a hiatus frequently, often broke

1072
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 1: up and come back and so forth. They changed managers UM,

1073
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 1: so they you know, you know, the the Capricorn Records

1074
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 1: was going bankrupt or did go bankrupt. I started over

1075
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: and it was it was fun again. But I signed

1076
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:55,599
Speaker 1: another artist a couple of years into Empire UM who

1077
01:13:55,720 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 1: was working clubs, nothing bigger than clubs. And a friend

1078
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 1: of mine said, come see this band, and I sent

1079
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 1: it young guy. I had hired named named Rick Alter.

1080
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: I sent him to Texas to see a young UH

1081
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:20,800
Speaker 1: musician who was no longer a baby, but he was

1082
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 1: still pretty young, named Stevie Ray Vaughan. And Rick came

1083
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 1: back and said, Alex, this this is for you. Ge

1084
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:39,600
Speaker 1: just felt it right and I go okay um. Now, interestingly,

1085
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 1: you know Stevie is a guitar band, and isn't a

1086
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 1: time in the early eighties where no label wanted a

1087
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:52,639
Speaker 1: guitar band. The music had changed, and I had changed

1088
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 1: with it to a degree. Even though I had all

1089
01:14:54,960 --> 01:15:00,320
Speaker 1: my brothers and in the Atlanta rhythm section, Charlie down unuals.

1090
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: I had been at at at Paragon Agency. We had

1091
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 1: employed it. We had brought in Squeeze in getting four

1092
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 1: before the New York agencies were bringing any of those

1093
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:19,000
Speaker 1: artists into the States, and we also brought in the police.

1094
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 1: So I was stretching myself to listen to new music

1095
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 1: and we were doing that. Consequently, we were also doing

1096
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:34,640
Speaker 1: that at UH at MPORE. But I had encouraged me

1097
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 1: in coping. You know, young guy UH and John Huey

1098
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:43,639
Speaker 1: young guy go to New York starting agency and they

1099
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 1: started FBI and really had a great run. So but

1100
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: you know, back to my chapter, Um, we put Stevie

1101
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 1: ray Van on as an opener to Greg Alman at

1102
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 1: uh UP in Atlanta, across the street from the Fox Theater.

1103
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:07,679
Speaker 1: Um pretty sure it was Alex Cooley was a promoter,

1104
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:12,560
Speaker 1: but if sometimes that club had been booked by different promoters.

1105
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:21,320
Speaker 1: So uh, anyway, I went early because the manager was

1106
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 1: a friend that I hadn't seen in ten years, and

1107
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: I didn't go to Texas to check it out. I

1108
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 1: had sent somebody, So I felt obliged in early March

1109
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 1: to go to the show and be there when they arrived.

1110
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:40,879
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting in this little outdoor patio and then

1111
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 1: walks Chestlee and the band and Stevie ray Van and uh,

1112
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 1: you know, so I remember standing up introducing myself for

1113
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: being introduced. It's just some kind of click that our contact.

1114
01:16:56,479 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 1: We we sort of had a a pretty cool on, right,

1115
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 1: you know from the get go we're talking about Stevie Stevie.

1116
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 1: I had not seen him play, and I didn't know

1117
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 1: much about his reputation. I had heard a little bit

1118
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:16,679
Speaker 1: about him. Umu Ray Benson from Asleep at the Will

1119
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:19,639
Speaker 1: had called me one day and said, uh, you gotta

1120
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 1: check out Stevie ray Von, somebody else that's said Stevie,

1121
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: everyone is gonna sign with Rolling Stones Records, and you know,

1122
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 1: and how do you you know, just tidbits of information.

1123
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 1: But I hadn't gone to see him. I hadn't sought

1124
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 1: him out. Chestly called, I sent somebody. I didn't go myself.

1125
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 1: And now here I am putting him on a show

1126
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 1: and having to meet with Chestly and say what commitment

1127
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:48,679
Speaker 1: I would make, And Chestly said, you've got to. You've

1128
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 1: got to. You've got to tell me and live up

1129
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 1: to it that no show will be under a thousand dollars,

1130
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 1: so not much money, but at the club scene that

1131
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot of five hundred, seven hundred fifty and

1132
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 1: eight hundred dollar gigs, you know. So I made the

1133
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 1: commitment and it wasn't an average amount, No single show

1134
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 1: would be under a thousand dollars, and uh so I

1135
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 1: committed and they and of course he hadn't played yet,

1136
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:23,440
Speaker 1: but I just felt there was enough information and confidence

1137
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 1: in my young guy worked for me um and I

1138
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,560
Speaker 1: found out that he was, you know, had some a

1139
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:32,599
Speaker 1: lot a lot of had done a lot of work

1140
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:37,120
Speaker 1: in those various clubs just needed somebody to push it

1141
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 1: a little harder. Um. He went on stage and you

1142
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 1: just you know, your your jaw drops and your eyes

1143
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 1: get bigger, and you just got don't believe it. And

1144
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 1: he's just absolutely that good. And you know, you always

1145
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:58,240
Speaker 1: wonder if you are in a receptive mode, and it's

1146
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 1: not really that good, right, right, right, So all of

1147
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:08,400
Speaker 1: Greg's musicians just came and said, oh my god, unbelievable,

1148
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:14,800
Speaker 1: just as just just just just totally unreal. And UM,

1149
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 1: so I congratulated him on a good set and we

1150
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 1: went to work. Then we got him. I had Carol

1151
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:26,000
Speaker 1: actually booked the show at the bottom Line in New York.

1152
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 1: Uh and uh Stevie uh Stevie took the headlines as

1153
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:38,600
Speaker 1: the opener. Um who was the headliner again? Um, I

1154
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have remembered except for a story Rob like

1155
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 1: told me in the last couple of years. Um, Uh,

1156
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 1: Bryan Adams, I think I'm pretty sure we shouldn't look

1157
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 1: that up. But anyway, UM took the headlines, you know,

1158
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:56,560
Speaker 1: like who would be afraid of a little of the

1159
01:19:56,760 --> 01:20:00,720
Speaker 1: three piece of guitar band to open up at the

1160
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 1: bottom Line? Um, chastely had been in the industry from

1161
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 1: Columbia Records in uh in Uh London had worked with

1162
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 1: A Grateful Dead in San Francisco and at at a

1163
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 1: lot of friends and a lot of places, and he

1164
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,720
Speaker 1: had invited uh Mick Jagger to see Stevie at the

1165
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:23,120
Speaker 1: bottom Line and and Mick Jagger has a way of

1166
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:26,040
Speaker 1: slipping and slipping out without being seen, but he was.

1167
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 1: He was there, and others wanted, uh, um, you know,

1168
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 1: we're blown away, you know, I mean in New York

1169
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:39,640
Speaker 1: at the bottom Line at some other clubs. You know,

1170
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 1: people are always curious about what's going on, and sometimes

1171
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 1: people missed the opening act. But it was pat and

1172
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,520
Speaker 1: Stevie did did did this thing. It was just amazing.

1173
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 1: But he was also going to go on tour um

1174
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: with David Boye. And I remember in the dressing room

1175
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 1: and saying, uh, you know, we'll book some side dates.

1176
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:05,360
Speaker 1: We'll book on off dates, will and our well, your

1177
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:08,559
Speaker 1: record is now out. The record was out and it

1178
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:14,400
Speaker 1: was exploding, not exploding, and CBS record he didn't make

1179
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: a deal with Rolling On. The album came out on

1180
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:20,799
Speaker 1: CBS on Epic part of the CBS company, right Um

1181
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 1: John Hammond signing, and I mentioned earlier that nobody was

1182
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 1: signing guitar bands. John Hammond, Um, I guess Chesty went

1183
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:36,519
Speaker 1: to a lot of labels. Actually, Stevie was helped by

1184
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 1: Jackson Brownie Larned in Miss Studio for some for some

1185
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:47,080
Speaker 1: of the work that came out on Texas Flood anyway, Um, uh,

1186
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:50,759
Speaker 1: nobody wanted a guitar band. They pressed ten thousand units

1187
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 1: originally Hello Nothing. They were sold in three days, and

1188
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 1: not just in Texas, but could sidill be in Texas?

1189
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 1: They relabeled it, gave it a new number, put it

1190
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 1: out again, and and pushed the envelope and uh, you know,

1191
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: Stevie was did a video and Stevie was recouped in

1192
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:13,760
Speaker 1: the first nine months. I don't know that it went

1193
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 1: gold in nine months, but it was soon to go gold.

1194
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:21,879
Speaker 1: And of course, uh he continued to put out records,

1195
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 1: all recouped within a very short time. When I say

1196
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 1: it was exploding, what exploding like you saw during a

1197
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:34,759
Speaker 1: later period of time where you know, four hundred thousand

1198
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 1: albums and win a week. But it was it was

1199
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:42,920
Speaker 1: really taken off. And uh so I think we did

1200
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 1: probably you know, he had you know gold in in

1201
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 1: X number of months maybe first year and then later platinum.

1202
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:57,759
Speaker 1: But here's here's uh you know again, um swimming upstream

1203
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 1: against the grain and uh. But Stevie was so unique,

1204
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 1: uh and patient. I didn't want something wasn't earned or

1205
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:14,200
Speaker 1: wasn't there. Um, listen to me, and we got the

1206
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 1: opportunity to to do the Moody Blues tour. Here's Stevie

1207
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 1: ray Van you know nineteen four, Um, would you put

1208
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 1: him on the Moody Blues tour? And that was the

1209
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:47,240
Speaker 1: common thought. No, And I said yes. I talked chestly

1210
01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 1: into it, which was not easy. Uh. And Stevie was

1211
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 1: open minded. That really helped found something in common over

1212
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,559
Speaker 1: the years with certain musicians who would listen and we're

1213
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:04,040
Speaker 1: open minded and could could uh, except they could They

1214
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 1: could know when something wasn't right and say no. They

1215
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:10,720
Speaker 1: could know. And something was so easy to say yes

1216
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 1: to even questioned it, and when something was a little

1217
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: more difficult, they could kind of think it through. Uh.

1218
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 1: Ultimately Stevie said, let's go do this. This would be

1219
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 1: that it's an arena tour. Part of my logic was

1220
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 1: who the fans of the Moody Blues. Why aren't they

1221
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:37,760
Speaker 1: the same fans of Clapton rockers just just think about it, right,

1222
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 1: So Stevie has to get the experience of an arena level. Um,

1223
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 1: it's a different experience. And you know, how was he

1224
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:53,360
Speaker 1: gonna you know do how was they? How are they gonna?

1225
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,360
Speaker 1: It's not so much how would they accept him? But

1226
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 1: that's certainly a consideration and a part of it. But

1227
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:04,640
Speaker 1: he needed the exposure then the and the experience, and

1228
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:08,760
Speaker 1: he needed it with um, in my opinion, fans that

1229
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 1: would adapt to him and accept him really quickly. There

1230
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:16,679
Speaker 1: was some I just today you would call them blogs.

1231
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:19,479
Speaker 1: There was some you know, sheets that were out that

1232
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:25,320
Speaker 1: we're very critical. Wanted Stevie to be the traditional new

1233
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:30,360
Speaker 1: blues guy, nothing more and nothing less, just blues guy.

1234
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:36,120
Speaker 1: Not trying to you know, rank it in any particular way.

1235
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:43,599
Speaker 1: But but Stevie saw himself, um, being unique, different and

1236
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 1: committed to the words guitar band. He knew what he

1237
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 1: wanted to do, and he challenged himself musically and he

1238
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:55,920
Speaker 1: was still doing so when he when he died. Um,

1239
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 1: but that was that was a big decision. We're not

1240
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:01,160
Speaker 1: sharing an easy one, and not everybody went along with it,

1241
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 1: but it worked and then of course, you know, things passed.

1242
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: The arena tours only so many dates. I'd have to

1243
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 1: look it up. I don't remember how many days. But

1244
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:14,040
Speaker 1: then what are you gonna do? Well, then you go

1245
01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:20,880
Speaker 1: back to clubs and theaters. But his reputation was enhanced,

1246
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:27,400
Speaker 1: the fan base was bigger, we could command more money.

1247
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:30,559
Speaker 1: So it was it was, you know, the right thing

1248
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 1: to do, and it was a part of the chapter

1249
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:37,800
Speaker 1: of stepping up. Later on we did Robert Plant tour

1250
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 1: and then much later on uh in a fairly short

1251
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:46,120
Speaker 1: recording career. But I would say, you know, a bit

1252
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:51,639
Speaker 1: later on, Yeah, the conversation came about whether we would

1253
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 1: co headline or do a tour with Jeff Beck and

1254
01:26:57,479 --> 01:27:02,800
Speaker 1: I remember the conversations. Uh. Jeff thatch Hauld canceled a

1255
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:06,599
Speaker 1: tour or two in the States, I believe, going home early.

1256
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:10,559
Speaker 1: But in any case, it didn't. It was like, you know,

1257
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 1: where's Stevie and where's Jeff? And Epic Records had picked

1258
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:19,600
Speaker 1: him up and had a really cool album out. UM

1259
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:26,880
Speaker 1: and Stevie and I discussed it and this this is

1260
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:33,640
Speaker 1: unfortunately Stevie and and Chestly my friend had broken up. UH.

1261
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 1: I had suggested different managers for Stevie to interview with

1262
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 1: and then they didn't click. And uh, I said, well,

1263
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:46,000
Speaker 1: you know, have the chenth meeting and if and if

1264
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:51,800
Speaker 1: there's a you're still not you know, clicking with one

1265
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:58,080
Speaker 1: of these prospective managers who would love to be involved. Um,

1266
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:02,120
Speaker 1: then put my my name down as number eleven and

1267
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:05,879
Speaker 1: he said, then it's a list of one, not eleven.

1268
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:10,160
Speaker 1: And that was in a hotel room and that's how

1269
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:15,720
Speaker 1: I started managing Stevie. So we ended up with this

1270
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:19,559
Speaker 1: Jeff Beck tour and uh, you know, you read things

1271
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:22,320
Speaker 1: that people put out, whether you're writing something or somebody

1272
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:25,519
Speaker 1: else's and the consensus was it wasn't going to be

1273
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:32,280
Speaker 1: a successful arena level tour. Um, but we won tour

1274
01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:36,120
Speaker 1: Package of the Year and two publications. We had a

1275
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:41,320
Speaker 1: very successful tour. Sev closed in New York City and

1276
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:44,759
Speaker 1: we had sold three hundred and sixty degrees twenty thousand

1277
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:48,280
Speaker 1: people and everybody saying, do you have an extra ticket

1278
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:51,160
Speaker 1: because we run it to the box office and it

1279
01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:54,120
Speaker 1: was it was. The whole thing was amazing. It was

1280
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:58,120
Speaker 1: really great. It was a lot of fun. I don't

1281
01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 1: know what we've missed in all that miss We missed

1282
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:03,639
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Well wait, wait, wait, wait, so Stevie,

1283
01:29:03,680 --> 01:29:06,479
Speaker 1: that continues. Now you're a manager, when do you start

1284
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:11,320
Speaker 1: managing Greg Allman? Uh? When the Allmer Brothers had broken

1285
01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:15,479
Speaker 1: up and I was in Marriotta still with UH with

1286
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:19,240
Speaker 1: the Empire Agency, and before I moved to California with

1287
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:26,280
Speaker 1: our cm um, the Armor Brothers were on tour and

1288
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:33,200
Speaker 1: something had happened in the band was not getting along, uh,

1289
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:36,840
Speaker 1: and they broke up. UM. I think at that time

1290
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:40,680
Speaker 1: they may have been on Ariostol Records. It wasn't a

1291
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:44,320
Speaker 1: great album. I don't think Clive Davis was really happy

1292
01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 1: and they weren't happy with each other. And uh, but

1293
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:52,080
Speaker 1: Greg wanted to work and Dicky wanted to work, so

1294
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:56,320
Speaker 1: we were booking both and Dreg didn't have a manager.

1295
01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 1: Whatever it happened with different possibilities of management. So UM,

1296
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:11,280
Speaker 1: his attorney, who's a fellow in Atlanta, said well, let's

1297
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 1: start a management company and call it Rescue Productions or

1298
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 1: something like that. And Uh, I said, that's really not

1299
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:22,599
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. You know, I'm an agent, but let

1300
01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:26,040
Speaker 1: me help you on this. So we started, you know,

1301
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:31,719
Speaker 1: formulating how to do that, and he and his wife

1302
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:34,479
Speaker 1: were the lawyer and his wife were doing the books

1303
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:37,360
Speaker 1: and take care of that aspect. But he wasn't in

1304
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 1: a music business. So I ended up running the running

1305
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:48,200
Speaker 1: of the store. And um Greg called me one day said, UM,

1306
01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:55,840
Speaker 1: get rid of this guy. So and his mother asked

1307
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 1: me one day if you talked to that fellow, and

1308
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 1: I said not yet. She said, well, you know when

1309
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 1: it's the right time. Greg's mom was really smart and

1310
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:08,640
Speaker 1: uh and uh and a and a good lady. Anyway,

1311
01:31:08,920 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 1: um we UM. I started managing Greg um in his

1312
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:19,880
Speaker 1: band with the Tola Brothers and uh because Greg liked

1313
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:22,559
Speaker 1: to work, you know, if he wasn't working with an

1314
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:27,479
Speaker 1: organized situation, he'd show up and work with musicians that

1315
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 1: he would know and find himself with a band and

1316
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:33,599
Speaker 1: out there pick up some pick up some change and work.

1317
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:39,799
Speaker 1: He liked. He liked to work, um, but he needed

1318
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:43,879
Speaker 1: he needed a new career. Almer brothers needed a new career.

1319
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 1: But they were not speaking and uh, I was listening

1320
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:56,599
Speaker 1: to songs for with the band and in Florida they

1321
01:31:56,600 --> 01:32:01,960
Speaker 1: had a means of doing demos all right, So the

1322
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:06,120
Speaker 1: two demos, I'd send them around and get rejected even

1323
01:32:06,160 --> 01:32:12,120
Speaker 1: from friends who had had previously loved the owner brothers. Man. Uh.

1324
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:17,680
Speaker 1: One guy says, like selling a used hire ally and uh,

1325
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:22,559
Speaker 1: but I was Uh, I was convinced that it could

1326
01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:28,720
Speaker 1: be a new start, you know. Um one of his

1327
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:30,840
Speaker 1: managers said to me one day, he said, Greg could

1328
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:33,160
Speaker 1: singing this, you know the phone book, you know, but

1329
01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:40,400
Speaker 1: I felt there was viability. But the time was you know,

1330
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:46,640
Speaker 1: the mood is just the time wasn't there. And and

1331
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:49,599
Speaker 1: Greg says, you know, I'm probably gonna be the only

1332
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:53,240
Speaker 1: guy with long hair left, but that's not gonna change.

1333
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 1: And uh. Anyway, we did photo sessions, and we did

1334
01:32:57,200 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 1: this and that, and I listened to songs. I mean

1335
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:07,960
Speaker 1: I listened two hundred thousands of songs on albums to

1336
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:12,200
Speaker 1: try to find one. I listened to tapes that people

1337
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 1: sent and all of a sudden, somebody and I should

1338
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, I apologize to that person. Now I don't

1339
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:25,160
Speaker 1: remember who sent me the tape, but I'm no angel

1340
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:29,160
Speaker 1: was on it. And uh. I was moving to l A.

1341
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:32,920
Speaker 1: And Greg came to l A. Uh. We had some

1342
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:36,479
Speaker 1: work to do and some interviews and things to do.

1343
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:39,120
Speaker 1: It came to the O c M office and I

1344
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:42,320
Speaker 1: played him a tape for the first time when I'm

1345
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 1: No Angel the demo that was sent and he said

1346
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:50,320
Speaker 1: I could do that. So Willie Parkins was my partner

1347
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:54,840
Speaker 1: on Greg Almand, and UH got it to the band,

1348
01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:57,599
Speaker 1: got the tape to the band, they worked it up,

1349
01:33:57,800 --> 01:34:00,600
Speaker 1: went in the studio in Florida and did a dumb to.

1350
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:05,680
Speaker 1: How similar was their version to the original demo? Pretty

1351
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:12,440
Speaker 1: pretty close? Pretty close? UM changed a little, you know something, UM,

1352
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:15,320
Speaker 1: maybe not change as much as Stevie changed cross Fire,

1353
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:18,320
Speaker 1: which is another story of the you know, bandmates of

1354
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:21,479
Speaker 1: his and others wrote cross Fire. And I was on

1355
01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:24,599
Speaker 1: a bus and listened to that tape and I said,

1356
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:26,760
Speaker 1: this is the one you should listen to Stevie and

1357
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:30,960
Speaker 1: see if you want to actually massogy and work it

1358
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:34,800
Speaker 1: out and record it and h But anyway, so I'm

1359
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 1: I'm No Angel, and I I sent so many you know,

1360
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:46,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I even I would cut out ads from

1361
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:51,240
Speaker 1: Billboard from a label and they'd show the titles of

1362
01:34:51,439 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 1: six albums you know that. I would say, how can

1363
01:34:54,400 --> 01:35:01,160
Speaker 1: I take their ad and superimposed it, cut and pay east, UH,

1364
01:35:01,479 --> 01:35:05,320
Speaker 1: put Greg's name in on top or third or something,

1365
01:35:05,479 --> 01:35:08,240
Speaker 1: and then may point an hour to it and send

1366
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:11,920
Speaker 1: them a demo and send them their own ad. But

1367
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, with with Greg Allman band, uh name on it,

1368
01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:21,519
Speaker 1: I'd go to meetings, I'd fly out here and play it.

1369
01:35:22,479 --> 01:35:27,120
Speaker 1: Nothing couldn't get I could get in the door. That

1370
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:30,799
Speaker 1: was a compliment, you know. But and I was working

1371
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:33,519
Speaker 1: with Stevie, and I was an agent and had had

1372
01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:37,479
Speaker 1: all of these years of some notoriety of success. I

1373
01:35:37,560 --> 01:35:41,439
Speaker 1: could get in the door, but nobody was buying. And

1374
01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:45,360
Speaker 1: I had all these really cool songs, I thought. But

1375
01:35:45,439 --> 01:35:47,759
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, Greg did this demo,

1376
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:50,960
Speaker 1: so I put you know, call it three songs, I

1377
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:53,799
Speaker 1: don't really remember, and the two or three songs, and

1378
01:35:53,960 --> 01:36:03,320
Speaker 1: uh send them around and uh um M, I think

1379
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:14,840
Speaker 1: an epic in New York. Um is it Bill Barrett? Anyway,

1380
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:22,439
Speaker 1: maybe Lendy piece the record that my little demo that

1381
01:36:22,479 --> 01:36:25,320
Speaker 1: we've done for Greg and his musicians in the band.

1382
01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:31,800
Speaker 1: And it was given to somebody who was flying back. Um,

1383
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:34,280
Speaker 1: and it wasn't Harvey Leeds. He got into it as

1384
01:36:34,320 --> 01:36:36,479
Speaker 1: soon as he got to hear the demo. But in

1385
01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:41,920
Speaker 1: any case, uh, um, you know, on a plane listening

1386
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:47,440
Speaker 1: to tapes and I gotta call, like you know, January

1387
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:54,000
Speaker 1: the third of whatever year that was. Um, we like this,

1388
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:58,240
Speaker 1: we can get a hundred stations on this. Let's go

1389
01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:01,759
Speaker 1: do it. And I'm going like I'm out of pensioned myself.

1390
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:06,600
Speaker 1: It is crazy, I said. Okay, So anyway, we ultimately

1391
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:10,280
Speaker 1: made a deal with Epic. Uh. Years later, I saw

1392
01:37:11,160 --> 01:37:16,280
Speaker 1: an executive who who tapped me on the shoulder at

1393
01:37:16,280 --> 01:37:19,320
Speaker 1: a restaurant and said, because I'm no angel on the

1394
01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:22,400
Speaker 1: demo that I had, I said, you'll have to go

1395
01:37:22,439 --> 01:37:27,760
Speaker 1: back and find that demo. Okay, just to be clear

1396
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:30,120
Speaker 1: your empire, at what point do you move to the

1397
01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:35,439
Speaker 1: West Coast and what's your decision to do that? About well,

1398
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:38,000
Speaker 1: partly because some people said you worked for yourself for

1399
01:37:38,040 --> 01:37:40,599
Speaker 1: so long, you won't work for anybody else, and uh,

1400
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:44,360
Speaker 1: I thought that's an interesting comment. But I wondered what

1401
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:52,040
Speaker 1: it was like at a large agency, a full service agency,

1402
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:54,760
Speaker 1: and I could bring clients and I could do this

1403
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:58,639
Speaker 1: job and I and I had, you know, with all

1404
01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 1: of my experience, I knew had a lot to learn,

1405
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:05,280
Speaker 1: you know, because it's a big world out there. Um

1406
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:12,880
Speaker 1: so um, we talked for a long time, quiet for

1407
01:38:12,920 --> 01:38:22,200
Speaker 1: a while, talked again, went to New York, talked and um,

1408
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:28,679
Speaker 1: Jeffberg was in the South or in Atlanta, and grabbed

1409
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:32,680
Speaker 1: a car and drove to my home in Marietta. And

1410
01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:36,400
Speaker 1: I said, you moved me out there, You're gonna move

1411
01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:44,320
Speaker 1: me wife, two children, two dogs, cars, you know, my

1412
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:48,840
Speaker 1: forty one four truck and a sixty tea bird. And

1413
01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:51,920
Speaker 1: I said, you know, are you sure you want to

1414
01:38:51,960 --> 01:38:55,160
Speaker 1: do this? You know, because he's we've moved people before.

1415
01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:58,439
Speaker 1: I probably had the biggest moving bill. They'd say it

1416
01:38:58,479 --> 01:39:02,840
Speaker 1: along and any case I moved out. It was like

1417
01:39:03,080 --> 01:39:05,599
Speaker 1: I met with my team. I said, here's a plan,

1418
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:10,520
Speaker 1: keep booking. I worked out this deal. I'm gonna soarb everybody.

1419
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:13,559
Speaker 1: You don't have to look for a job tomorrow. UH

1420
01:39:13,800 --> 01:39:16,320
Speaker 1: need you to stay on and have a kind of

1421
01:39:16,360 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 1: a smooth transition and um and showed up around Memorial Day.

1422
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:30,639
Speaker 1: Uh and uh. And you know, when you're in certain

1423
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:32,800
Speaker 1: towns in the old days, you can pull in a

1424
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 1: service station and ask ask the service station attendant or

1425
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:43,040
Speaker 1: somebody you know, saying how do I get to and

1426
01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:47,120
Speaker 1: they'll tell you, well, I was staying at La Park Hotel,

1427
01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:50,559
Speaker 1: and nobody at any service station or anywhere else had

1428
01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:55,200
Speaker 1: any clue of the streets or La Park hotel or

1429
01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:58,519
Speaker 1: how to direct me? And I think I finally went

1430
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:02,320
Speaker 1: into some store in bottatime Alma Scott. Uh took me

1431
01:40:02,439 --> 01:40:04,679
Speaker 1: hours to get back to my hotel that night because

1432
01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:07,080
Speaker 1: I have a habit of working when everybody else is gone.

1433
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:11,120
Speaker 1: And uh, in any case, Uh, it was funny. We

1434
01:40:11,120 --> 01:40:14,640
Speaker 1: were on Beverly Boulevard and I was on and I

1435
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:18,840
Speaker 1: think the sixth floor, and um, and it was pretty cool.

1436
01:40:19,080 --> 01:40:23,160
Speaker 1: It had me a very nice corner office. It was amazing.

1437
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:28,000
Speaker 1: And it wasn't too long after that a friend who

1438
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:32,439
Speaker 1: had known over the years for different associations brought me

1439
01:40:34,120 --> 01:40:37,040
Speaker 1: a band to sign and book and we did it.

1440
01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:42,920
Speaker 1: It's called Loudness Japanese rock band Hard Rock Man Japanese band.

1441
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:45,720
Speaker 1: Great gave me a watch I still have that the

1442
01:40:45,800 --> 01:40:50,519
Speaker 1: sun makes that's this, you know, the the symbol of

1443
01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:54,240
Speaker 1: the come. I just like, you know, kind of interesting.

1444
01:40:54,800 --> 01:40:57,960
Speaker 1: And I put them at Santa Monica at the San

1445
01:40:58,120 --> 01:41:03,679
Speaker 1: Jose Civic with Bill Graham and uh, there's a poster

1446
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:07,960
Speaker 1: of that now that we've re re reframed and well

1447
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:11,600
Speaker 1: put up found anyway here it is in the in

1448
01:41:11,680 --> 01:41:19,840
Speaker 1: the you know, four eighty five. Um, and I said, okay,

1449
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:22,639
Speaker 1: give me some material to listen to and I'll turn

1450
01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:26,120
Speaker 1: it over the guys. Fellow hands me the smallest album

1451
01:41:26,200 --> 01:41:29,880
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. So it turns out, you know, it

1452
01:41:30,360 --> 01:41:32,280
Speaker 1: was a compact test right, it was a c D

1453
01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:36,799
Speaker 1: and we didn't even have one purchase in the office,

1454
01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:43,000
Speaker 1: So that was the band. Loudness led to us investing in,

1455
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:45,880
Speaker 1: uh some equipment to play c D s at I

1456
01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:50,240
Speaker 1: see m pretty funny story, absolutely, although you know it's funny.

1457
01:41:50,240 --> 01:41:51,800
Speaker 1: I went to the music heres they still give it

1458
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:54,599
Speaker 1: away a c D. It's like, hey, my computer doesn't

1459
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:57,080
Speaker 1: even have a CD there? Okay, how does it end

1460
01:41:57,080 --> 01:42:04,160
Speaker 1: with I? C m um? So many interesting stories about

1461
01:42:04,160 --> 01:42:09,960
Speaker 1: and I C m um um. I became a responsible

1462
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:12,599
Speaker 1: agent for bands that I hadn't like grown up with

1463
01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 1: from first album in the Capricorn days, or hadn't had

1464
01:42:16,439 --> 01:42:20,880
Speaker 1: a story of, like STEVI abing unsigned and all of

1465
01:42:20,920 --> 01:42:25,080
Speaker 1: a sudden, here's you got this monster roster and C

1466
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:30,080
Speaker 1: A A is is blossoming and poaching all the agents

1467
01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:35,760
Speaker 1: and poaching all the bands, and uh and uh, so

1468
01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:39,599
Speaker 1: you've really got to meet new people and absorb yourself

1469
01:42:39,680 --> 01:42:42,960
Speaker 1: and get some sense of confidence from them and hire

1470
01:42:43,040 --> 01:42:45,920
Speaker 1: and fire and coach and do all of those things

1471
01:42:45,960 --> 01:42:50,880
Speaker 1: all at once very quickly. Um uh fascinating. And the

1472
01:42:51,040 --> 01:42:56,719
Speaker 1: routing from from territorially, the West Coast office was booking

1473
01:42:56,960 --> 01:43:01,320
Speaker 1: the Western States and it's not as many cities and

1474
01:43:01,880 --> 01:43:05,800
Speaker 1: you know in the Midwest and the East and the southeast,

1475
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:12,280
Speaker 1: so uh, you know, different, just a different deal big

1476
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:16,840
Speaker 1: and uh. But I enjoyed it. But I met Don Hardon,

1477
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:22,280
Speaker 1: famous manager, yes, Sharon Osborne's father. Yeah, I meant, I

1478
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:25,440
Speaker 1: became a responsible agent for a couple of his clients.

1479
01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:30,160
Speaker 1: And I was thrown into You're gonna be the West

1480
01:43:30,160 --> 01:43:33,719
Speaker 1: Coast guy to you know, to talk to John Denver,

1481
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:37,200
Speaker 1: and you know, all of a sudden, you know that

1482
01:43:37,439 --> 01:43:43,080
Speaker 1: they had this roster um and they needed uh, you know,

1483
01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:46,080
Speaker 1: they had a new guy. And I'm a new guy

1484
01:43:46,120 --> 01:43:51,240
Speaker 1: with a Southern accent. And I'm sure the the hierarchy

1485
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:54,160
Speaker 1: and the pecking order of all of Los Angeles who

1486
01:43:54,320 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 1: might know I see him, had heard this guy in

1487
01:43:58,280 --> 01:44:02,960
Speaker 1: times had changed music le uh. And I was probably

1488
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:05,519
Speaker 1: given no more than six months by any betting card.

1489
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:09,680
Speaker 1: But I'm still here. So how long do you work

1490
01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:14,759
Speaker 1: for I CM? I worked for them until uh, I'd

1491
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:19,080
Speaker 1: say I think it was January an interested now just

1492
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:22,880
Speaker 1: sounded a new contract. But I got an interesting offer

1493
01:44:23,400 --> 01:44:26,880
Speaker 1: from Jimmie natal Lander. So when I tell you I'd

1494
01:44:26,880 --> 01:44:31,720
Speaker 1: worked for Landers twice the first time started in and

1495
01:44:31,880 --> 01:44:36,160
Speaker 1: was it the same operations, the same job, pretty much similar,

1496
01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:38,320
Speaker 1: you know? And how long do you don't think we

1497
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:42,000
Speaker 1: had titles back then? Right? How long did you do

1498
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:45,840
Speaker 1: that for? I was, I was how long? What? How

1499
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:47,880
Speaker 1: long did you work with dieter Lando the first time

1500
01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:58,240
Speaker 1: through most of the season of ninety four and then

1501
01:44:58,280 --> 01:45:01,800
Speaker 1: you go to h O B. There was there was

1502
01:45:02,439 --> 01:45:04,400
Speaker 1: There was really no h O B. I think they

1503
01:45:04,439 --> 01:45:10,479
Speaker 1: were still putting up folk art on sunset Um. But

1504
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:17,960
Speaker 1: um I met with uh the m c A folks

1505
01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:21,800
Speaker 1: and one of the guys was out. J Marciano was

1506
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:31,839
Speaker 1: in and uh um So they had talked to me before,

1507
01:45:32,400 --> 01:45:38,519
Speaker 1: but this was ninety four and in done some really

1508
01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:41,680
Speaker 1: cool things with Needle Lander. We had done uh I

1509
01:45:41,800 --> 01:45:43,920
Speaker 1: was a point guy. We had done two dates of

1510
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:48,200
Speaker 1: Pink Florida at Yankee Stadium. We had opened the pond

1511
01:45:48,680 --> 01:45:52,080
Speaker 1: which is now und of center, when had six shows

1512
01:45:52,120 --> 01:45:56,559
Speaker 1: of Barber Stwis in two nights. I think of Rod Stewart.

1513
01:45:56,800 --> 01:46:00,320
Speaker 1: We were doing dates at the Sports Arena, plus of

1514
01:46:00,360 --> 01:46:07,200
Speaker 1: course the Greek Theater and Pacific Amphitheater, so here I was.

1515
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:11,120
Speaker 1: You know, this was and they had their amphitheaters which

1516
01:46:11,160 --> 01:46:16,560
Speaker 1: we you know described and we talked about. So I'm

1517
01:46:16,600 --> 01:46:20,240
Speaker 1: managing Stevie ray Van. I've got the Greek Theater under

1518
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:23,800
Speaker 1: my umbrella. I got my own private management company, and

1519
01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:27,439
Speaker 1: I worked for Jimmy Needlander. This is pretty damn good.

1520
01:46:29,600 --> 01:46:35,240
Speaker 1: So uh but nur um, you know, they knocked on

1521
01:46:35,320 --> 01:46:40,440
Speaker 1: my door and I'm you know, reciprocated, I suppose, and uh,

1522
01:46:40,479 --> 01:46:45,080
Speaker 1: I told Jimmy that I had an offer, and I

1523
01:46:45,120 --> 01:46:48,840
Speaker 1: think sometime around September and the fall, I took the

1524
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:52,800
Speaker 1: offer and moved over to Uh you know, I think

1525
01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:54,920
Speaker 1: at first it was a closet that they gave me.

1526
01:46:54,960 --> 01:47:00,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, with an air, I was right

1527
01:47:01,120 --> 01:47:03,120
Speaker 1: on my head. I got it flew right off the bat.

1528
01:47:03,439 --> 01:47:07,440
Speaker 1: What was your responsibility there? Now? In all in all seriousness,

1529
01:47:07,720 --> 01:47:10,920
Speaker 1: they you know, you gotta get you got, you gotta

1530
01:47:10,960 --> 01:47:16,920
Speaker 1: get officers ready, and you gotta assimilate and uh and

1531
01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:21,560
Speaker 1: get yourself into a new position and and so uh,

1532
01:47:22,160 --> 01:47:25,639
Speaker 1: booking would be one of my responsibilities. I was vice

1533
01:47:25,680 --> 01:47:28,840
Speaker 1: president or executive vice president of senior vice president or

1534
01:47:28,840 --> 01:47:33,040
Speaker 1: some some some level. I don't think it was executive

1535
01:47:33,400 --> 01:47:36,280
Speaker 1: vice president title. But it was decent and good pay

1536
01:47:36,479 --> 01:47:39,479
Speaker 1: and an ice offer and all of a sudden a

1537
01:47:39,520 --> 01:47:47,360
Speaker 1: new environment. UM, so you know, a lot of vibrancy.

1538
01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:53,479
Speaker 1: Jay was getting the Toronto amphitheater UH finished up and

1539
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:58,160
Speaker 1: had had his eyes on opening an amphitheater and San Diego.

1540
01:47:59,000 --> 01:48:03,719
Speaker 1: All of this was uh in order. UM we had

1541
01:48:04,160 --> 01:48:08,559
Speaker 1: UM we had an amphitheater deal in uh Cleveland and

1542
01:48:09,200 --> 01:48:12,960
Speaker 1: one in Dallas in Atlanta, and you know it's I

1543
01:48:12,960 --> 01:48:16,360
Speaker 1: mean it's a big operation. They had m c A

1544
01:48:16,479 --> 01:48:22,479
Speaker 1: had a booking office in New York. UM, so you know,

1545
01:48:22,520 --> 01:48:27,080
Speaker 1: it was kind of similar, but a different. Inventory of venues.

1546
01:48:27,560 --> 01:48:33,680
Speaker 1: In Universal Amphitheater was the twelve months a year competition

1547
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:38,799
Speaker 1: to the Greek Theater. Greek being seasonal and outdoors. Universal

1548
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:43,280
Speaker 1: Amphitheater UH indoors and twelve months a year. And so

1549
01:48:43,479 --> 01:48:46,040
Speaker 1: I became, you know, one of the one of the

1550
01:48:46,120 --> 01:48:51,759
Speaker 1: key bookers for that. We recruited uh Melissa Miller before

1551
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:56,679
Speaker 1: she was married Melissa Ormond now uh uh as well

1552
01:48:57,240 --> 01:48:59,720
Speaker 1: Larry Vallen was still there. He was doing some of

1553
01:48:59,720 --> 01:49:04,000
Speaker 1: the nues in transitioning a little bit away from Universal.

1554
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:10,639
Speaker 1: Um and UH met a young girl, lady in uh uh,

1555
01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:17,800
Speaker 1: young woman in special events who was helping to work

1556
01:49:17,880 --> 01:49:22,840
Speaker 1: on the Latin shows. And so I started working with

1557
01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:27,280
Speaker 1: her closer um, you know, getting rid of her bosses

1558
01:49:27,280 --> 01:49:32,320
Speaker 1: and bringing her up in statue. And anyway, there we

1559
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:38,439
Speaker 1: are at uh the calendar for Universal Amphitheater. And as

1560
01:49:38,439 --> 01:49:43,720
Speaker 1: a booker, as an as a as a promoter with

1561
01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:47,320
Speaker 1: a venue, I mean, whether it be the Greek or

1562
01:49:47,320 --> 01:49:50,880
Speaker 1: whether it be Universals or two you know, great venues,

1563
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:59,200
Speaker 1: iconic venues, and so matter the calendar and and and

1564
01:49:59,320 --> 01:50:01,679
Speaker 1: making that cho us is and being competitive and pay

1565
01:50:01,760 --> 01:50:04,240
Speaker 1: more money than the other guy, doing a better job

1566
01:50:04,280 --> 01:50:07,320
Speaker 1: at marketing than the other guy. So we we had

1567
01:50:07,320 --> 01:50:09,280
Speaker 1: a good We had a good run. And then one

1568
01:50:09,360 --> 01:50:14,080
Speaker 1: day the company was sold Edgar Braffman, and then Edgar

1569
01:50:14,120 --> 01:50:17,680
Speaker 1: Brochman decided he wanted every label in the world and

1570
01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:20,559
Speaker 1: he was going to get rid of some smaller and

1571
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:27,439
Speaker 1: boutique companies and didn't really put the equation together that

1572
01:50:28,280 --> 01:50:34,880
Speaker 1: the concert promoting wing company or division was synergistically important

1573
01:50:34,960 --> 01:50:38,280
Speaker 1: a core to the record business. And you can make

1574
01:50:38,280 --> 01:50:41,280
Speaker 1: the argument one way or the other, but you know,

1575
01:50:41,360 --> 01:50:45,479
Speaker 1: live music well certainly have changed after the turn of

1576
01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:48,920
Speaker 1: the century. Dry Okay, So then you're with h O B.

1577
01:50:50,520 --> 01:50:52,799
Speaker 1: And then and then the h O B things interesting

1578
01:50:52,800 --> 01:50:55,599
Speaker 1: because we were interested in making a deal to kind

1579
01:50:55,640 --> 01:51:01,640
Speaker 1: of acquire this h O B equation uh into m

1580
01:51:01,720 --> 01:51:05,360
Speaker 1: c A Universal Concerts. And I think the name of

1581
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:09,000
Speaker 1: Universal Concerts m c A Concerts changed a couple of times,

1582
01:51:09,439 --> 01:51:13,040
Speaker 1: you know, and and um, it makes designers happy because

1583
01:51:13,040 --> 01:51:21,400
Speaker 1: they redo the cards. Um. So we ultimately go, wow,

1584
01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:28,120
Speaker 1: we need we need a new home. Our company is

1585
01:51:28,160 --> 01:51:34,240
Speaker 1: being sold. So s f X or Clear Channel or

1586
01:51:35,280 --> 01:51:42,519
Speaker 1: a SMG facility management company now merged in a s

1587
01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:49,760
Speaker 1: M And what's what's going to happen here? Um? Ultimately,

1588
01:51:49,840 --> 01:51:53,439
Speaker 1: with the blanking equation and the investment equation of House

1589
01:51:53,479 --> 01:51:57,839
Speaker 1: of Blues, they thought, and we thought, and the selling

1590
01:51:57,880 --> 01:52:00,720
Speaker 1: party m c A thought it would be good to,

1591
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:04,160
Speaker 1: you know, figure out how to have a merger or

1592
01:52:04,240 --> 01:52:08,760
Speaker 1: acquisition of House of Blues and pick up m c

1593
01:52:08,920 --> 01:52:13,600
Speaker 1: A Concerts. So m c A Concerts becomes House of

1594
01:52:13,640 --> 01:52:19,880
Speaker 1: Blues Concerts and often running the House of Blues ultimately

1595
01:52:20,160 --> 01:52:23,880
Speaker 1: was affected by their investments in all kinds of new technology.

1596
01:52:24,000 --> 01:52:26,800
Speaker 1: It was imploding. How do you ultimately get from House

1597
01:52:26,840 --> 01:52:31,639
Speaker 1: and Blues back to need the enter Well, a couple

1598
01:52:31,680 --> 01:52:34,920
Speaker 1: of chapters and a couple of things. In particular, they're one.

1599
01:52:35,880 --> 01:52:38,240
Speaker 1: The House of Blues thought they had the new model

1600
01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:44,599
Speaker 1: for of you know, videoing concerts, concerts and the clubs,

1601
01:52:45,439 --> 01:52:52,120
Speaker 1: and there was some people there, Uh, we're convinced that

1602
01:52:52,200 --> 01:52:55,360
Speaker 1: it was going to change the outcome of selling albums

1603
01:52:55,439 --> 01:52:58,680
Speaker 1: to the extent that they wouldn't have to pay royalties

1604
01:52:59,640 --> 01:53:04,040
Speaker 1: and get releases from the artists they were recording. I

1605
01:53:04,280 --> 01:53:08,880
Speaker 1: don't think that worked out so well. The the thing

1606
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:12,920
Speaker 1: that really worked was that you had two good divisions

1607
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:18,439
Speaker 1: to You had the concert group with this new logo

1608
01:53:19,080 --> 01:53:23,600
Speaker 1: and brand, and you had a pretty amazing brand with

1609
01:53:23,760 --> 01:53:27,439
Speaker 1: House of Blues. And I say amazing because I could

1610
01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:31,479
Speaker 1: check in a hotel almost any city and in the States,

1611
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:34,679
Speaker 1: and we'll be on an airplane and somebody say, well,

1612
01:53:34,720 --> 01:53:37,280
Speaker 1: I love the House of Blues in my city, And

1613
01:53:37,320 --> 01:53:39,599
Speaker 1: I said, where do you live in the Napolis, Indiana?

1614
01:53:39,680 --> 01:53:42,960
Speaker 1: They don't have a House of Seattle, Washington, they didn't

1615
01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:48,160
Speaker 1: have a house. But you know, the brand was huge

1616
01:53:48,479 --> 01:53:51,960
Speaker 1: and almost went public. They were the company almost went public.

1617
01:53:52,600 --> 01:53:57,479
Speaker 1: But this this UM dot com bubble kind of burst

1618
01:53:58,280 --> 01:54:00,439
Speaker 1: and that was one of the that was one of

1619
01:54:00,439 --> 01:54:04,040
Speaker 1: the equations to take the dot com thing and in

1620
01:54:04,680 --> 01:54:08,280
Speaker 1: all of that new technology, and that was going to

1621
01:54:08,400 --> 01:54:12,679
Speaker 1: be explosive and take us into the public world and

1622
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:19,639
Speaker 1: you know, be a very successful stock market equation. Uh,

1623
01:54:19,680 --> 01:54:24,960
Speaker 1: it didn't happen, but we were still doing business doing

1624
01:54:25,000 --> 01:54:29,400
Speaker 1: it well. A lot of you know changes around the

1625
01:54:29,479 --> 01:54:36,720
Speaker 1: scene UM outside UM meaning SFX, the Clear Channels to

1626
01:54:36,880 --> 01:54:41,320
Speaker 1: then the spinoff of Live Nation and ultimately in two

1627
01:54:41,360 --> 01:54:45,240
Speaker 1: thousand and six, Michael Lupino got his board to make

1628
01:54:45,280 --> 01:54:49,680
Speaker 1: a pretty during big offer for the House of Blues.

1629
01:54:50,800 --> 01:54:54,040
Speaker 1: And I stayed on a few months and uh it

1630
01:54:54,160 --> 01:54:58,240
Speaker 1: was one of the last concert executives to leave, and

1631
01:54:58,400 --> 01:55:04,240
Speaker 1: a lot of changes and then uh I left and

1632
01:55:05,880 --> 01:55:09,000
Speaker 1: was sitting at home helping my son book a tour

1633
01:55:09,120 --> 01:55:12,000
Speaker 1: that never happened on a band, but we had it routed,

1634
01:55:12,160 --> 01:55:15,520
Speaker 1: had some deposits that just didn't happen. It's kind of

1635
01:55:15,520 --> 01:55:20,480
Speaker 1: having fun, you know, UH plan plan with with adult

1636
01:55:20,520 --> 01:55:24,360
Speaker 1: toys and helping my son and this and that. Uh

1637
01:55:25,800 --> 01:55:29,720
Speaker 1: and I remember going shopping for a gift from my

1638
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:36,560
Speaker 1: wife and running into a house neatle Lander executive who said, Uh,

1639
01:55:37,080 --> 01:55:41,520
Speaker 1: you gotta come back, Jimmy, won't you back? And uh,

1640
01:55:43,200 --> 01:55:47,080
Speaker 1: ultimately we started talking and I walked in the door

1641
01:55:47,120 --> 01:55:50,720
Speaker 1: in April of two thousand and seven. If you hadn't

1642
01:55:50,760 --> 01:55:53,160
Speaker 1: gone back to Nita land or do you think you

1643
01:55:53,200 --> 01:55:55,360
Speaker 1: would have been done? Or would you find something else?

1644
01:55:55,640 --> 01:55:57,720
Speaker 1: I probably found something else. I mean I was thinking

1645
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:02,960
Speaker 1: about the agency world with um, you know, the routing

1646
01:56:03,000 --> 01:56:06,160
Speaker 1: of bands the other side of the is the same equation,

1647
01:56:06,280 --> 01:56:09,320
Speaker 1: you know? And and how the book. I don't think

1648
01:56:09,360 --> 01:56:12,000
Speaker 1: I would have was listening in to those skills. But

1649
01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:15,480
Speaker 1: I didn't have any Uh, I didn't have any clients

1650
01:56:15,600 --> 01:56:18,880
Speaker 1: and for the agency world, and Stevie Raybone had died

1651
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:22,080
Speaker 1: in nineteen nineties, so all of a sudden, you was

1652
01:56:22,200 --> 01:56:27,280
Speaker 1: sixteen years later and uh when they sold, and seventeen

1653
01:56:27,320 --> 01:56:30,400
Speaker 1: years later when I walked back in the door. Uh.

1654
01:56:30,640 --> 01:56:35,440
Speaker 1: Certainly I missed every chapter that I went through, and

1655
01:56:35,520 --> 01:56:39,680
Speaker 1: all of these iterations I missed them. And somebody said,

1656
01:56:39,720 --> 01:56:42,440
Speaker 1: will you remember the good stuff? And I, of course

1657
01:56:42,480 --> 01:56:47,000
Speaker 1: I'll remember the good stuff. I remember the hard stuff. Um,

1658
01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:49,280
Speaker 1: but I I like what I do now and I

1659
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:52,400
Speaker 1: like what I did then. So it answers you a question.

1660
01:56:53,080 --> 01:56:57,360
Speaker 1: If if I hadn't gone back to needle Land or

1661
01:56:57,480 --> 01:57:00,720
Speaker 1: I wouldn't, I would have, and I was talking to

1662
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:03,160
Speaker 1: some people I would have. I would have stayed uh

1663
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:07,840
Speaker 1: in the business and probably on the live music tide,

1664
01:57:08,680 --> 01:57:14,160
Speaker 1: possibly as an agent, possibly another promoting company. Okay, so

1665
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:17,560
Speaker 1: we've heard your long story career. Are you gonna be

1666
01:57:17,560 --> 01:57:20,200
Speaker 1: a book like that guy who died during the show

1667
01:57:20,600 --> 01:57:23,680
Speaker 1: two weeks ago? Are you gonna die at the venue?

1668
01:57:24,840 --> 01:57:29,600
Speaker 1: I don't think so, but um I might die at

1669
01:57:29,640 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 1: a new venue that we haven't opened yet. Well, I

1670
01:57:32,920 --> 01:57:36,720
Speaker 1: guess I'm saying without using the euphemism, are you ever

1671
01:57:36,760 --> 01:57:41,760
Speaker 1: gonna retire? You know I have? I have hobbies and

1672
01:57:41,920 --> 01:57:45,320
Speaker 1: things that I like to do, like water skiing. Water

1673
01:57:45,440 --> 01:57:50,080
Speaker 1: skiing in particular. I'm at my age, I'm pretty all

1674
01:57:50,200 --> 01:57:54,839
Speaker 1: my nephews, niece's brothers, and they've all quit water skiing,

1675
01:57:55,240 --> 01:57:59,080
Speaker 1: and I still slalom water skiing, cut back and four

1676
01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:05,560
Speaker 1: across way. Uh. You know, I enjoy it. It gets me.

1677
01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:08,520
Speaker 1: It gets me going. I'll say, my breast gets out

1678
01:58:08,520 --> 01:58:10,800
Speaker 1: a little sooner than it used to. So I gotta

1679
01:58:10,840 --> 01:58:14,840
Speaker 1: work on my my my legs and my cardio. But

1680
01:58:14,840 --> 01:58:18,320
Speaker 1: but I love that I love anything on the water.

1681
01:58:19,120 --> 01:58:23,720
Speaker 1: I could probably uh figure out something that allowed me

1682
01:58:23,760 --> 01:58:25,880
Speaker 1: to be on the water or and be a happy

1683
01:58:25,920 --> 01:58:28,960
Speaker 1: camper um. But I like what I do. I like

1684
01:58:29,040 --> 01:58:32,720
Speaker 1: the challenges. I have always been uh in an underdog

1685
01:58:32,880 --> 01:58:36,920
Speaker 1: situation if you go back to the very beginning story

1686
01:58:37,200 --> 01:58:39,440
Speaker 1: that I've told you, and I forget the story in

1687
01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:42,320
Speaker 1: the transition, because you gotta go to work every day.

1688
01:58:42,360 --> 01:58:48,440
Speaker 1: But you know, small making Georgia, and we aren't the biggest.

1689
01:58:48,440 --> 01:58:54,520
Speaker 1: Now we're a small independent promoting company thank fully supported

1690
01:58:54,600 --> 01:58:59,080
Speaker 1: by the Needle Leander family, by Jimmy Needle Lander, you know,

1691
01:58:59,200 --> 01:59:03,320
Speaker 1: Jimmy senior son, Uh, James L. Nada Lander is a

1692
01:59:03,360 --> 01:59:06,440
Speaker 1: great boss and a great partner and a great friend

1693
01:59:07,080 --> 01:59:14,640
Speaker 1: and enormously supportive to our you know, to our staff.

1694
01:59:15,080 --> 01:59:18,640
Speaker 1: So we'll like to think we're the you know, really

1695
01:59:18,720 --> 01:59:24,880
Speaker 1: unique in in and how we find a way to

1696
01:59:25,000 --> 01:59:27,480
Speaker 1: keep doing it and didn't do it better and then

1697
01:59:27,600 --> 01:59:31,760
Speaker 1: grow and you know, three consecutive years of improvement since

1698
01:59:31,800 --> 01:59:33,960
Speaker 1: the city took over the Greek and we still book

1699
01:59:34,040 --> 01:59:37,720
Speaker 1: shows at the Greek. So as long as there's a challenge.

1700
01:59:37,800 --> 01:59:41,960
Speaker 1: I'm probably up for it. Okay, you've seen so much,

1701
01:59:42,000 --> 01:59:46,400
Speaker 1: you book so much, your two favorite shows ever. Oh boy,

1702
01:59:46,440 --> 01:59:48,680
Speaker 1: that's hard, I know, but I'm gonna make you do it.

1703
01:59:55,480 --> 01:59:57,960
Speaker 1: You want to give me six now? Okay, I'll give

1704
01:59:58,000 --> 01:59:59,240
Speaker 1: you a few more if you got on the top

1705
01:59:59,280 --> 02:00:02,160
Speaker 1: of your head. Well, you know, uh, when before I

1706
02:00:02,160 --> 02:00:05,560
Speaker 1: could drive, I saw I saw Elvis Presley at the

1707
02:00:05,600 --> 02:00:09,200
Speaker 1: Fox there in Atlanta, Georgia, and it was an indelible imprint.

1708
02:00:10,080 --> 02:00:15,240
Speaker 1: It was just cool and it was a matinee show. Um,

1709
02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:18,800
Speaker 1: and I couldn't drive. So when you think about, you

1710
02:00:18,840 --> 02:00:20,880
Speaker 1: know how that plays, I don't know really how it

1711
02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:24,760
Speaker 1: plays except and able to scream it aloud. You couldn't

1712
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:28,520
Speaker 1: hear everything the way you wanted to. But it was

1713
02:00:28,920 --> 02:00:36,200
Speaker 1: totally indelible. Amazing. Did that have anything to do with

1714
02:00:36,560 --> 02:00:40,320
Speaker 1: the career that I later have? Who knows? Are you

1715
02:00:40,440 --> 02:00:44,520
Speaker 1: directed by some unseen force? You know? I have no idea,

1716
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:46,880
Speaker 1: but I know people go to shows and it will

1717
02:00:47,000 --> 02:00:53,240
Speaker 1: end up being an agent. Um, I would guess. Uh.

1718
02:00:53,400 --> 02:01:00,720
Speaker 1: One of my favorites would be would be um Steve

1719
02:01:00,800 --> 02:01:06,320
Speaker 1: very Van at Madison Square Garden. If you take the

1720
02:01:06,360 --> 02:01:11,280
Speaker 1: whole thing and put it together that I had told him.

1721
02:01:11,400 --> 02:01:15,520
Speaker 1: I had asked him, have you been an opening act

1722
02:01:15,600 --> 02:01:21,040
Speaker 1: at Medicine Square Garden before we met or He said no,

1723
02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:25,160
Speaker 1: and I haven't even been in Madison Garden. And I said,

1724
02:01:25,520 --> 02:01:32,000
Speaker 1: you won't go to Madison Square Garden to play or

1725
02:01:33,240 --> 02:01:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, until we can headline and in that particular venue.

1726
02:01:39,400 --> 02:01:41,920
Speaker 1: My goal for you is the headline and we'll be

1727
02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:46,440
Speaker 1: able to sell three sixty all the way around. Meantime,

1728
02:01:46,520 --> 02:01:51,480
Speaker 1: we'll do New Jersey and Long Island, anything and everything else,

1729
02:01:51,640 --> 02:01:53,879
Speaker 1: but we're not going to go to Madison Square Garden

1730
02:01:54,400 --> 02:01:57,400
Speaker 1: until you can head on and we can sell three sixty.

1731
02:01:57,520 --> 02:02:00,880
Speaker 1: And we accomplished that. It was pretty amazing. Everything about

1732
02:02:00,960 --> 02:02:05,960
Speaker 1: that day was amazing. Um, pretty cool. You gotta really

1733
02:02:06,120 --> 02:02:12,520
Speaker 1: add some some you know. When we did um Barber

1734
02:02:12,560 --> 02:02:16,680
Speaker 1: Striching at the Pond, that was totally special. Some of

1735
02:02:16,720 --> 02:02:20,640
Speaker 1: the shows that I that I remember, you know that

1736
02:02:20,720 --> 02:02:26,000
Speaker 1: I really liked a lot, uh uh you know, you

1737
02:02:26,040 --> 02:02:28,440
Speaker 1: knowing the police did I always thought was great and

1738
02:02:28,520 --> 02:02:34,200
Speaker 1: we were involved. I thought, I you know, sometimes you

1739
02:02:34,200 --> 02:02:38,800
Speaker 1: gotta pay for a ticket. And John Huey, who had

1740
02:02:38,920 --> 02:02:41,160
Speaker 1: hired and worked for me and making had moved to

1741
02:02:41,200 --> 02:02:44,040
Speaker 1: New York and working with Ian and I flew to

1742
02:02:44,120 --> 02:02:46,640
Speaker 1: New York and we got on the train and we

1743
02:02:46,680 --> 02:02:49,720
Speaker 1: went to Long Island to see the Wall Pink Floyd

1744
02:02:49,760 --> 02:02:55,440
Speaker 1: the Wall that first time. And uh, I'm telling you

1745
02:02:55,840 --> 02:02:59,560
Speaker 1: that that's got a rank and you know, a top three. Now, my,

1746
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:06,160
Speaker 1: you're just pretty pretty amazing. Um. So, I don't know,

1747
02:03:06,200 --> 02:03:10,880
Speaker 1: they're really they're really hard to to pinpoint. I thank you.

1748
02:03:10,880 --> 02:03:14,240
Speaker 1: If I had, if I, if I had a drink

1749
02:03:14,280 --> 02:03:17,040
Speaker 1: with you on Saturday and a drink with you on Sunday,

1750
02:03:17,640 --> 02:03:20,080
Speaker 1: and I'll drink with you on Monday. And you asked

1751
02:03:20,080 --> 02:03:22,560
Speaker 1: me the same question, i'd probably for the most part,

1752
02:03:22,600 --> 02:03:25,400
Speaker 1: pick different shows. I don't know if they'd be the same,

1753
02:03:25,480 --> 02:03:31,520
Speaker 1: but maybe these were. These were pretty pretty special, pretty indelible. Okay, Alex,

1754
02:03:31,600 --> 02:03:33,360
Speaker 1: I know we've only scratched for knowing you for all

1755
02:03:33,400 --> 02:03:36,560
Speaker 1: these scratch the surface. There's so many storm stories. Maybe

1756
02:03:36,560 --> 02:03:39,440
Speaker 1: another type of thanks for being here, your thank you

1757
02:03:39,600 --> 02:03:44,120
Speaker 1: for having it's been fun. Absolutely, thank you until next time.

1758
02:03:44,240 --> 02:03:45,400
Speaker 1: This is Bob left Sid