1
00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,240
Speaker 1: I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News,

2
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,240
Speaker 1: and this is Bloomberg Crypto at Daily Bloomberg I Heart Podcast.

3
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:18,400
Speaker 1: It's Friday June. Before the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February,

4
00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,759
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian government and the crypto community did not quite

5
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:26,279
Speaker 1: see eye to eye. There was skepticism, distrust, and even

6
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,360
Speaker 1: a few police raids on unlicensed crypto exchanges. But since

7
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,080
Speaker 1: the war broke out there's been a shift. Digital asset

8
00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,040
Speaker 1: leaders in Ukraine are now hailed by some as heroes

9
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,920
Speaker 1: because of their work with the Ukrainian government to finance

10
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 1: the war effort, and they're scoring some big successes along

11
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 1: the way. Ukraine's Deputy Minister Phy Digital Transformation has said

12
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,440
Speaker 1: the crypto donations enabled the army to buy military equipment

13
00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,360
Speaker 1: and medicine. Today I'm joined by Bloomberg Report Alistamosh to

14
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 1: talk through his reporting on how Ukraine has been using

15
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:08,319
Speaker 1: crypto during the war to support its armies and its population. Alistair,

16
00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being our guest today, my Peta,

17
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,760
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. We're going to talk about the

18
00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,520
Speaker 1: war in Ukraine from a crypto angle, which for folks

19
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,960
Speaker 1: who haven't been following along closely might seem like a

20
00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 1: little bit of a strange way to tackle this topic.

21
00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 1: So I'd love for you to set the stage about

22
00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,880
Speaker 1: what as it relates to Ukraine and crypto has been

23
00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:32,480
Speaker 1: interesting but also been a sometimes controversial place for the industry,

24
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: and how that has changed in light of the war

25
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,160
Speaker 1: with Russia. Well, so, the situation in Ukraine when it

26
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 1: comes to crypto is in some in many ways not

27
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,880
Speaker 1: just similar to the experiences that you've had in many

28
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:51,200
Speaker 1: other countries in that the authorities have been suspicious to

29
00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,600
Speaker 1: say the least of crypto, but what's been really amazing

30
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,280
Speaker 1: to witness. I mean, obviously this is in some ways

31
00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,200
Speaker 1: a smaller story of the broad struggle that Ukraine has

32
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,400
Speaker 1: been through in the credible journey that the Ukrainian people

33
00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 1: have been on these last months. But one one sort

34
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,120
Speaker 1: of small chapter of that is how the attitudes towards

35
00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,200
Speaker 1: crypto have changed fundamentally, because a couple of years ago,

36
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:22,400
Speaker 1: actually Ukrainian authorities viewed crypto with deep skepticism and there

37
00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:28,200
Speaker 1: were frequent raids of crypto exchanges and anyone involved in

38
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,960
Speaker 1: crypto activity from both the Special services and other government bodies.

39
00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 1: It was viewed as you know, sort of the classic

40
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 1: idea of this is just drug money on this is

41
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,080
Speaker 1: money for illicit purposes and there's no good use for

42
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,080
Speaker 1: this technology or this that type of asset. But actually

43
00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 1: the war experiences totally transformed there. It's been kind of

44
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,520
Speaker 1: miraculous to see that actually the war effort is being

45
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 1: financed in part by crypto, and Crypto is playing a

46
00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 1: critical role in enabling the government to source military equipment,

47
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:11,000
Speaker 1: humanitarian aid, all kinds of necessities that it needs. Despite

48
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 1: the relentless onslaught of Russian forces, Ukraine's vital tech sector

49
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,760
Speaker 1: is still operating for clients around the world, while Ukraine's

50
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 1: own tech leaders are helping support the war effort and

51
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,040
Speaker 1: working around the clock to keep their own employees safe.

52
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 1: Right now, so you're holding up your phone. I mean,

53
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 1: one of the things that really struck me when we

54
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,280
Speaker 1: were doing reporting on the situation with Crypto and Ukraine

55
00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 1: after the Russian invasion was how many developers protocols, you know,

56
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 1: the kinds of bits of crypto infrastructure that people have

57
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,880
Speaker 1: come to rely on. Our manteein either out of the

58
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:45,200
Speaker 1: Ukraine or by Ukrainian devs, and you know, given that environment,

59
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,160
Speaker 1: were you more or less surprised that crypto has an

60
00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,720
Speaker 1: emerged as this lifeline during the war. You're definitely right

61
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 1: that there was a very vibrant local crypto scene in

62
00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 1: that there were many developers locally. They are articals based

63
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,480
Speaker 1: people working on various projects in Ukraine. And actually Michael

64
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,200
Speaker 1: Chabani in who's ahead of the Kuna crypto has changed

65
00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,360
Speaker 1: that the biggest exchange in Ukrainian I'm sure we'll we'll

66
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,840
Speaker 1: be talking about in a moment. He called the crypto

67
00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,279
Speaker 1: scene wild back in the day, and there was both wild,

68
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,359
Speaker 1: one because you had the sort of the government suspicion

69
00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,840
Speaker 1: and crackdown of which I've spoken but also because you

70
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 1: kind of had a real vibrant local scene where you

71
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,320
Speaker 1: had many people working on different projects and there was

72
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,800
Speaker 1: a real buzz about it. He talked about meetups where

73
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,960
Speaker 1: there would be hundreds of people, you know, into the thousands,

74
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,279
Speaker 1: gathering on a weekly basis. That's very different to any

75
00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,040
Speaker 1: experience that I've had in London. So there was this

76
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,960
Speaker 1: sort of acceptance of crypto, both in terms of having

77
00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,040
Speaker 1: plenty of Ukrainians working in the industry, but also there

78
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 1: are statistics showing that Ukraine is either the first or

79
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,640
Speaker 1: suddenly in the top three in terms of countries globally

80
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 1: that use crypto. So those kind of this underlying um

81
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,480
Speaker 1: acceptance among the people. It was just sort of at

82
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,359
Speaker 1: the government that although there was a suspicion, and now

83
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 1: that's totally transformed. So I guess it's sort of an

84
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:17,840
Speaker 1: aligning of government and state with the people. And you

85
00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:22,080
Speaker 1: mentioned Michael Servanion, who has really been instrumental in making

86
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,159
Speaker 1: that alignment happen, right, So he he is sort of

87
00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,719
Speaker 1: apocryphally known as the father of the crypto scene in Ukraine.

88
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,080
Speaker 1: You interviewed him at the very beginning of the war

89
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 1: by voice memo back and forth to hear more about

90
00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,039
Speaker 1: the developments at the time. And one of the big

91
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,279
Speaker 1: things that was happening, you know, in the in the

92
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,320
Speaker 1: days immediately following Russia's invasion of the country was the

93
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:52,920
Speaker 1: crypto community rallied around philanthropy in a way that was

94
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to say unprecedented, but at least remarkable

95
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 1: in that they were donating millions and millions and bions

96
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,159
Speaker 1: of dollars worth of crypto to the Ukrainian government, and

97
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,080
Speaker 1: what was really unusual was that they were doing that

98
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 1: to the Ukrainian government's or wallets. What was Trabanion's rule

99
00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,320
Speaker 1: in making this happen? Right, But he is actually a

100
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,080
Speaker 1: really fascinating character. I mean he when I said that

101
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,960
Speaker 1: I'd heard he was the godfather of crypto E in Ukraine,

102
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,400
Speaker 1: he laughed and said, yes, that's what they called me.

103
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,480
Speaker 1: I was the first guy who actually started publicly speaking

104
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,200
Speaker 1: about the crypto, the first guy who actually did you know,

105
00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:30,920
Speaker 1: to be honest, there's a lot of stuff that I

106
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,719
Speaker 1: did first, like the first at M, first, public trade,

107
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,960
Speaker 1: first company, forced exchange, first, OTC first, you know, a

108
00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,600
Speaker 1: lot of first. So we spoke early March, so that

109
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,479
Speaker 1: the war had been getting up just over two weeks

110
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,960
Speaker 1: at that point, and this was the point when it

111
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:54,040
Speaker 1: was clear that the Ukrainian government was asking or essentially

112
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,680
Speaker 1: forcing or all military age men eighteen plus men to

113
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,680
Speaker 1: stay in the country and fight. So I assumed when

114
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,080
Speaker 1: I spoke to him that he would be somewhere in

115
00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,240
Speaker 1: the trenches or you know, we're doing some kind of

116
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 1: army job. No, I didn't join the army because I

117
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,840
Speaker 1: felt really a good army man. I'm good with guns,

118
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,680
Speaker 1: but only a theory. So my job is being a

119
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,920
Speaker 1: crypto banker for the government. So I'm in charge of

120
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:30,840
Speaker 1: collecting fundraising, um storing crypto, exchanging crypto to crypto, exchanging

121
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 1: crypto to FEAT, opening the bank accounts, or for intermediacy

122
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,440
Speaker 1: or for the government, so we can change crypto to

123
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,720
Speaker 1: FIAT and then wire them to our accounts, and without

124
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,960
Speaker 1: those accounts we can buy some wherever. It's required by

125
00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 1: the Ministry of the Bands. And there's some statistics that

126
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 1: they keep. The numbers keep changing, but the government puts

127
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,600
Speaker 1: them out on Twitter from time to time, the decraining government,

128
00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 1: and they say that's something like I think it's five

129
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,880
Speaker 1: thou it's covery more than that now, um bullet proved best.

130
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,200
Speaker 1: And then there are pictures of them having There are

131
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,360
Speaker 1: pictures as the Deputy Minister of Digital Transformation, which is

132
00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,760
Speaker 1: a wonderful title, and he puts on his Twitter feed

133
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 1: if you ever inclined to look, pictures of armored vehicles

134
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 1: and weapons and bullet proved best and all kinds of

135
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,360
Speaker 1: things that have been bought with crypto. So it's quite

136
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 1: quite remarkable. Really, We'll be right back to talk about

137
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:39,760
Speaker 1: the innovative ways crypto is helping the war effort in Ukraine, Kuna.

138
00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,880
Speaker 1: You know, to that point about Germanian being the crypto bancor,

139
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,000
Speaker 1: he has been. I remember one of the stats in

140
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: March was that of the hundred million dollars or so

141
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,559
Speaker 1: that the government had raised at that point, and it's

142
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,640
Speaker 1: way more than that at this point. You know, he

143
00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,760
Speaker 1: was managing like sixt of that money on their but

144
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,440
Speaker 1: to buy that military equipment and other supplies that you're describing.

145
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 1: So it seemed like it's a pretty important and probably

146
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,840
Speaker 1: very complicated rule right now for sure, and also in

147
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,680
Speaker 1: some ways a little bit um. You know, it probably

148
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,280
Speaker 1: goes against the grain a bit of his own background.

149
00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,439
Speaker 1: You know, to be working for the state is kind

150
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,720
Speaker 1: of a funny thing for a crypto guy to do,

151
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 1: but it's so, I guess, all part of this sort

152
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,000
Speaker 1: of patriotic national effort to be the Russians into supplying

153
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,560
Speaker 1: what the people need to Yeah, I'm not sure he

154
00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,400
Speaker 1: would have ever imagined that he would be working for

155
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,880
Speaker 1: the government, but that's that's where he finds himself. And

156
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,559
Speaker 1: you're right, it is quite an important, quite an important role.

157
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,640
Speaker 1: The battle for dome Bus remains Russia's strategic focus and

158
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,000
Speaker 1: territorial gains have been slow in the face of stiff

159
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:53,080
Speaker 1: Ukrainian resistance. Well, I'm glad you raised that point about

160
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,160
Speaker 1: the tension between you know, the the anti government libertarian

161
00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,960
Speaker 1: roots of a lot of crypto and a lot of

162
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 1: people in the scene, and the fact that so many

163
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 1: people rallied to give money not just to a government,

164
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,200
Speaker 1: but to a military. And you know, it's certainly been

165
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:14,480
Speaker 1: an interesting and challenging time for I suppose you could

166
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:19,120
Speaker 1: call them the crypto purists who have been for years

167
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,440
Speaker 1: saying the point of this, of this, these tokens, the

168
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,560
Speaker 1: point of this ecosystem is to avoid government interference of

169
00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,480
Speaker 1: any kind. Um And to have you know, a bunch

170
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,480
Speaker 1: of folks who were very influential in the industry. You

171
00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,000
Speaker 1: had the heads of exchanges, you had the inventor of

172
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 1: ethereum all saying hey, this is a good cause and

173
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 1: we should rally around. That was was really quite remarkable. Indeed,

174
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,080
Speaker 1: I think it exposes a lot of kind of the

175
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:48,439
Speaker 1: tensions and contradictions within crypto. I mean, here's a kind

176
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,439
Speaker 1: of approve of concept that bitcoin and kind of crypto

177
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,200
Speaker 1: in the border sense has a social utility. Crypto is

178
00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,320
Speaker 1: providing almost like a humanitarian service here while in subways

179
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,199
Speaker 1: it's not surprising, but you're right it does. It does

180
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,959
Speaker 1: kind of go against the grain of the ethos yea,

181
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 1: the kind of anti libertarian stuff indeed, and to the

182
00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 1: point about the G in in in e s G.

183
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 1: You know, the the idea of corporate government governance. It's

184
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,000
Speaker 1: certainly raised a lot of interesting issues around sanctions and

185
00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 1: sanctions of visions because one of the things that Ukraine

186
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,880
Speaker 1: was also calling for was for exchanges to ban not

187
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:24,920
Speaker 1: just people who are in the Russian sanctions list, but

188
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,400
Speaker 1: any Russian citizens at all. And even the exchanges that

189
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,480
Speaker 1: have been very supportive of Ukraine's crypto efforts came out

190
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,000
Speaker 1: and said, no, we're not going to do that. If

191
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,440
Speaker 1: somebody is on a sanctions list, we will absolutely comply

192
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,840
Speaker 1: with that sanctions list. We will make sure that we're

193
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 1: not allowing them to use our services in any way,

194
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,320
Speaker 1: but we're not going to ban everyone with a Russian

195
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,800
Speaker 1: passport from using these services. Yeah, you're right, it is

196
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,760
Speaker 1: really interesting, like be and also what should be the

197
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,959
Speaker 1: response to to the state, um, what should be the

198
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 1: response to regulators and so on? That is still an

199
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,840
Speaker 1: open question. By the stories about Bonance, for example, you know,

200
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 1: just shows you that we're in a world of greater

201
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,480
Speaker 1: regulatory and government interests and oversight of the crypto markets.

202
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,800
Speaker 1: So I guess you've got to be careful, how you well,

203
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,320
Speaker 1: crypto businesses have to be more and more careful. Absolutely

204
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 1: matred here. Yeah, and Binances in the news because of

205
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,080
Speaker 1: a blockbuster router's report that they had been responsible for

206
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,560
Speaker 1: helping to launder a couple of billion dollars worth of

207
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,560
Speaker 1: crypto that was associated with a North Korean hacking group

208
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:36,200
Speaker 1: known as Lazarus, which they have of course scrupulously denied. Um,

209
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:40,040
Speaker 1: but certainly something that is going to get to your

210
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,160
Speaker 1: to your point, even more governmental scrutiny and quite likely

211
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,920
Speaker 1: regulation in the coming weeks and months. Exactly, yeah, exactly.

212
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 1: Was this whole idea about how going back to my

213
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,640
Speaker 1: point of about crypto being sort of providing a social

214
00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,520
Speaker 1: good here is that crypto I think the Ukrainians situation

215
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,000
Speaker 1: that the war has proved that bitcoin and crypto can

216
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,640
Speaker 1: provide great utility, great social benefit, but also can be

217
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,760
Speaker 1: used for the finance terrible things too, So that the

218
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,360
Speaker 1: sort of the argument about it's all just drug money

219
00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 1: and terrorist financing. Well maybe, but there's also this side too.

220
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,000
Speaker 1: This is a very in my mind, you're burning in Ukraine.

221
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,440
Speaker 1: It's a very positive story for crypto and bitcoin, that

222
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,680
Speaker 1: it is helping people and desperate needs to fight against

223
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,720
Speaker 1: an oppressor. And you know that's a wonderful story to tell. Well,

224
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,840
Speaker 1: that is a very positive notes on which to end,

225
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 1: So thank you very much for joining us. Thank you.

226
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 1: You can find more of his reporting on the Bloomberg

227
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 1: Terminal on Bloomberg dot com and find him on Twitter

228
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:55,280
Speaker 1: at Alistair g Marsh on the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto.

229
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,439
Speaker 1: California's Silicon Valley is both a place and a philosophy,

230
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,400
Speaker 1: often hailed as the place for US tech startups to

231
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 1: get their start. Vcs, or venture capitalists, are an integral

232
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,280
Speaker 1: part of this mythology. These are the people who provide

233
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,600
Speaker 1: the private capital billions of dollars worth, so these startups

234
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 1: can chase the next big thing. Despite the volatile crypto market,

235
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,440
Speaker 1: some of those vcs are still betting big on the

236
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 1: potential of the blockchain. For the latest on this, we'll

237
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,120
Speaker 1: talk to Bloomberg reporter Hannah Miller about how Crypto is

238
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:34,480
Speaker 1: influencing VC and vice versa. I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael and

239
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,680
Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and

240
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,880
Speaker 1: I Heeart Radio. For more shows from iHeart Radio, visit

241
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

242
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Email your questions, comments, or suggestions for

243
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 1: the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net and find

244
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:57,600
Speaker 1: us on Twitter. We're at Crypto. The supervising producer and

245
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 1: editor of this episode is Vicky ver Galina. Our producer

246
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,320
Speaker 1: is Mohammed Faruk. Desta wander At is our engineer. Original

247
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,000
Speaker 1: music by Leo Sidron. Bloomberg's head of podcasts is Francesco

248
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:08,320
Speaker 1: Leafy