Speaker 1: This is cut to It with Steve Smith Senior at
Speaker 1: production of The Black Effect and I Heart Radio. I'm
Speaker 1: Steve Smith Senior and I'm a little John and this
Speaker 1: is cut to it. Good do it, Good do it.
Speaker 1: They's getting down to do it. Good do it. We
Speaker 1: asked the questions you always want to know, but no
Speaker 1: one ever asked, let's cut to it. You ain't heard
Speaker 1: them about it, then we're about to let you know.
Speaker 1: It's all some corn chips. I want to smack in
Speaker 1: your mouth worse smitty, good brother. We are wrapping up.
Speaker 1: What's on your plate? What's your resolution? Resolution? Man? I
Speaker 1: can't get wait to get the hell out of you.
Speaker 1: Know what I dislike? You're about how much time you got? Wow,
Speaker 1: that's pretty good right there. You know what I dislike
Speaker 1: when folks you go, hey, how are you doing? I'm
Speaker 1: just doing great? Stop lying? Why why are they gonna
Speaker 1: be a lie? It? Bro look backwards it. It sucked,
Speaker 1: but I'm cool with the noubt about it. But I
Speaker 1: just don't. I dislike the people who try to make everything,
Speaker 1: oh it's great, Just be acknowledge. You gotta acknowledge that
Speaker 1: it so you're best in highly favor I am, but
Speaker 1: damn it, man, it's still so it's been different. Did
Speaker 1: you not learn anything about well, then that's it. There's
Speaker 1: there's your book. I learned a ton, but let's quit
Speaker 1: fakeing the f folks like it's been great, really it has.
Speaker 1: Don't don't swimming you misery. I'm not swimming and I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, just be forth right with your true be transparent,
Speaker 1: like everything's great, everything is that great. Stop laying. At
Speaker 1: some point throughout, had some sort of a mishap. Everyone did,
Speaker 1: everyone in the house. Ever, we were locked in the house,
Speaker 1: so we had we had to wear masks, like just
Speaker 1: be honest. Don't get Oh it's great. It's some good things,
Speaker 1: but they're also good things that came out of this podcast.
Speaker 1: To it, it's been outstanding. Absolutely, I've enjoyed and it's
Speaker 1: allowed me to recognize some things. But it also is
Speaker 1: like I really like talking to people who aren't I
Speaker 1: don't want to say phony, but stop, like stop stop
Speaker 1: acting like you can be both. You can't. You can
Speaker 1: acknowledge that it sucked, but you can also I think
Speaker 1: also I get the other side. I don't want it
Speaker 1: to be all negative, but don't you know, don't act
Speaker 1: like like, Um, I talked to somebody and I was like,
Speaker 1: brow are you doing? He's like, man, I'm great. Like really,
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I'm fantastic. Bro, couldn't that hard for
Speaker 1: you to believe that someone could be doing great? Awkward silence?
Speaker 1: That's called that's called a dead air. No, I'm it's
Speaker 1: not that you can't be great. But the individual I
Speaker 1: was talking to, we were talking because he text me
Speaker 1: saying that he wanted to talk. Hey, bro, I gotta
Speaker 1: run something by, you know, struggling with some stuff, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, how are you? I'm doing great? That
Speaker 1: ain't what you just text me about. We ain't great.
Speaker 1: You text me and it's all just a little bit
Speaker 1: of like you can't hit the text. So I'm struggling,
Speaker 1: And then I actually, hey, what's going on? Man? I'm good?
Speaker 1: A sucked? What are you looking forward to? One? Man,
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to There's so many things that I
Speaker 1: discovered about myself that, um, it's made me very intrigued
Speaker 1: trying to stay away from the negative in regards to
Speaker 1: and I say negative where, um you know, I'm on
Speaker 1: cameo and so get a lot of people tell me oh,
Speaker 1: Man needs you to roast my guy and Kurt you
Speaker 1: can curse him out too and swear it's fine. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Cameo is an app where people pay and ask
Speaker 1: you to do a personalized message. And there's been some
Speaker 1: messages like I really enjoyed doing them. It's made me
Speaker 1: really change my perspective on how I see things. But
Speaker 1: then there's also some people I've been like, I've been
Speaker 1: declining some of the requests because I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to really put down someone, and like, you're because
Speaker 1: you're quote unquote paying me. Just because I'm getting paid
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that means that like you want me to
Speaker 1: put like I'm like, who wants to be? Who wants
Speaker 1: to see a video message from somebody They may endoor like,
Speaker 1: look up to like, or it may be a yeah,
Speaker 1: oh you suck rob Like no, And I've hit so
Speaker 1: many declines that guys are really like, oh really like
Speaker 1: you really, I'm like, bro, like I get it has
Speaker 1: been such a trying time. Who wants some more bad news?
Speaker 1: I don't. I really don't. The bad news meter has
Speaker 1: definitely been reached and extended. Man, I just don't. I
Speaker 1: want to really enjoy I want to hit into now
Speaker 1: with aspirations that are unobtainable, but aspirations of like I
Speaker 1: really want to refresh. So for me is the folks
Speaker 1: that are negative drainers in my life. I'm leaving you.
Speaker 1: That's good. I have no room for you because it
Speaker 1: does weigh on you and it'll bring it'll bring your
Speaker 1: whole injury level down. Someone operates, and negativity or fear
Speaker 1: or all of those different things. Man, that stuff wears
Speaker 1: on you over time. I just want to be around people.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying I'm the most positive person I
Speaker 1: know I have my I could be a Debbie down nerd.
Speaker 1: I can be that at times. I have that. I
Speaker 1: have that stronging of being like, just like, I'm good,
Speaker 1: here's something I'm going into and you're gonna hear it
Speaker 1: our new tagline at the end of every single podcast
Speaker 1: we do. And I believe this and I want to
Speaker 1: emphasize it and I want to push it. So I
Speaker 1: was reading something my my my daily reading and on
Speaker 1: something that was really intriguing and it really hit me.
Speaker 1: It was actually December four and why is it important?
Speaker 1: Because it was something that until this moment at forty
Speaker 1: one years old what we all experienced in something that
Speaker 1: really was compelling, and it sets to this, I am unique.
Speaker 1: There's only one person like me. I am worthwhile, competent,
Speaker 1: and lovable. And ever since I read that, I've been
Speaker 1: repeating that at least once a day after once a
Speaker 1: day moving forward, because for me to hear that that
Speaker 1: I am worthwhile in this word right here, competent, because
Speaker 1: a lot of times, I don't know, maybe it's just athletes,
Speaker 1: but a lot of times athletes get deemed as dumb jocks.
Speaker 1: And I think that word competent because we can be
Speaker 1: on television, we can say how we feel or at
Speaker 1: times getting intimidated by the red dot on the record
Speaker 1: of of being an analyst, and sometimes you have so
Speaker 1: many seconds. You know, you have a two minute segment.
Speaker 1: There's four people, so everybody has their thirty seconds each
Speaker 1: to talk, and you're sometimes grasping for words to say
Speaker 1: and be impactful, and sometimes you fumble over your words,
Speaker 1: especially if a guy like me um and that work
Speaker 1: competent just to use it as I am unique, I
Speaker 1: am worthwhile, I'm competent and lovable. I thought I was
Speaker 1: really cool and something I've just been holding on to
Speaker 1: and so I I like that and I'm gonna hold
Speaker 1: on to it something I picked up in that. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna drag, pull pull across that finish line. The the
Speaker 1: start line is a start line personally for me as
Speaker 1: going in there and say I'm competent and lovable, because
Speaker 1: a lot of times we don't feel like we're lovable,
Speaker 1: especially what what everybody has going through, especially how um
Speaker 1: everything with the presidency, the virus, whether it's black lives,
Speaker 1: whether it's um, you know, defunding, the police, police brutality,
Speaker 1: all of those things. I think sometimes we have forgotten
Speaker 1: that lovable part. Man agree on that. So you're unique too,
Speaker 1: and I and I love you for so I'm trying
Speaker 1: to be you are and and not saying that it
Speaker 1: like in the what you mean? So you know, if
Speaker 1: if you know some people, and also to the last thing,
Speaker 1: make sure you check in with some folks, see how
Speaker 1: they're doing, how they really do not just don't say,
Speaker 1: don't say how you doing? What I've been texting guys,
Speaker 1: how is your mental? Yep just makes me think of
Speaker 1: one of our last episodes, Sam Macho, and he talked
Speaker 1: about how even in locker rooms you can walk by
Speaker 1: somebody and just say, hey, how you doing? How you doing, Steve?
Speaker 1: How you doing, Joe? And you always give it that
Speaker 1: I'm good, much like you just said before, I'm good.
Speaker 1: How are you really? Because we're good at putting on
Speaker 1: that front foot on that facade, like how are you
Speaker 1: really doing? And going out of your way to check
Speaker 1: on someone. I think that's super important. Well, he said
Speaker 1: that guys will ask and the guy may not even respond,
Speaker 1: but he just keeps going because it's programmed. Didn't you
Speaker 1: let me act like I really care? But I don't
Speaker 1: because I got so much other stuff going on to
Speaker 1: really stop Paul's living. And now it's really good. That's
Speaker 1: really good. So who we got next? Coming up on
Speaker 1: the Cut to It podcast, We've got j billis an
Speaker 1: n C double, a analyst for ESPN, former player and
Speaker 1: assistant coach for Duke University, and the author of the
Speaker 1: book Toughness. J billis on the Cut to It Podcast.
Speaker 1: Our first segment, we call it get Iced Up, our
Speaker 1: version of Icebreakers. There are questions that are selected at
Speaker 1: random by Smitty himself. There may or may not be
Speaker 1: a follow up. Have no clue, Smitty, go ahead, give
Speaker 1: him the First, are you ready? All right? This open
Speaker 1: book test. It's about you, so if you fail, blame
Speaker 1: it on yourself. All right. The last book you read,
Speaker 1: the last book I read, is called The Color of
Speaker 1: Law by Richard raw Steen. It's about how systemic racism
Speaker 1: is not uh de facto um, it's the jura meaning
Speaker 1: it's built into our system of laws. And for people
Speaker 1: who don't want to acknowledge that systemic racism, he points towards,
Speaker 1: you know, facts in in law that have established it
Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt. It's it's a great book. Would
Speaker 1: you suggest me growing up as a black man? Shild
Speaker 1: I read it. I think everybody should read it, honestly.
Speaker 1: That and that and uh called the new gym Crow,
Speaker 1: which I think I'm right now one down up. I
Speaker 1: started that when that's a good one. What do you say,
Speaker 1: j when you get a gift that you don't like? So?
Speaker 1: What what are some pretend words would you use um
Speaker 1: in saying thank you for this ugly as gift as
Speaker 1: you received. I don't. I don't mince words anymore at
Speaker 1: my age on gifts. So I was born December and uh,
Speaker 1: and I do not I do not do combo gifts anymore.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm a fellow. I know how it goes.
Speaker 1: I'm like I combo gifts are not acceptable. I don't
Speaker 1: want any dad gifts. I don't want any soap on
Speaker 1: a rope. I don't want any that crap. I want
Speaker 1: something good. I'll feel you when that comboy that thing
Speaker 1: gets me hot? Hey, is there a give? Really? Soap
Speaker 1: on a rope? There used to be? I mean when
Speaker 1: you're you're younger. Maybe when I was a kid, there
Speaker 1: were all these Father's Day gifts that were you know,
Speaker 1: like like for your dad, you you soap on a
Speaker 1: rope used to be one. And you know your dad,
Speaker 1: My dad used to say when when it was his
Speaker 1: birthday or Christmas or whatever, we say, Dad, what do
Speaker 1: you want? And he'd say I don't want anything, and
Speaker 1: so why not? And he goes because it's not gonna
Speaker 1: be what I want and I have to pay for it.
Speaker 1: Was the first thing you tweeted this morning. Jeezy lyric
Speaker 1: from his new album Recession to every Day Jay? What
Speaker 1: did Jay? Where did your love from Young Jeezy come from? Well?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I listened to a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: Jeez is one of them. He happens to be one
Speaker 1: of my favorites, if not my my favorite, uh sort
Speaker 1: of hip hop rap artists. But it kind of started
Speaker 1: for me, honestly when I was in high school. I
Speaker 1: was in high school, my freshman year of high school
Speaker 1: in n and seventy nine, and that was about that
Speaker 1: was about the time that the sugar Hill King came
Speaker 1: out with Rappers Delight, and so my my my teammates
Speaker 1: on my basketball team, we sang that thing every day
Speaker 1: while we were doing conditioning work and all that. I
Speaker 1: still remember every damn word to it. And you know,
Speaker 1: then then in in college, you know, all my teammates
Speaker 1: listen to run DMC and you name it, and so, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I gained a great appreciation for it as
Speaker 1: an art form. And then about it's probably about ten
Speaker 1: years ago, we were in Michigan State for college game
Speaker 1: Day for ESPN and Draymond Green was playing for Michigan
Speaker 1: State at the time, and he had, you know, some
Speaker 1: big old headphones on and one of our crew asked
Speaker 1: him on the air when he came by, what are
Speaker 1: you listening to? And he said, I'm listening to Young Jeez.
Speaker 1: So Hubert Davis, who was with us at the time,
Speaker 1: and now you know he's an assistant coach at North Carolina.
Speaker 1: He turned to me and he says, is that is
Speaker 1: that on your iPod? Back then it was iPod, you know?
Speaker 1: And uh And I said, well, oddly enough it is.
Speaker 1: People didn't believe me, and so somehow it's almost become
Speaker 1: a myth now. But people were hitting me on Twitter saying,
Speaker 1: come on, man, you don't listen to Jeez, and I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I do, and I shot a couple of lyrics out
Speaker 1: and after going back and forth with a couple of people,
Speaker 1: I really did. If I remember right, I really did
Speaker 1: have to go into my office. I had to go
Speaker 1: into work, and so I put, I put, you know,
Speaker 1: some lyric and I gotta go to work, and somehow
Speaker 1: it caught on and I wound up doing it every morning.
Speaker 1: Says then, so what was this morning's lyrics? I don't
Speaker 1: even remember. I did it at like six am, so
Speaker 1: I'd have to go out to go back and look.
Speaker 1: I what I do now, because I was always concerned.
Speaker 1: When I started doing it, I was doing it off
Speaker 1: of what I was listening to, and then I was going,
Speaker 1: you know, I might not understand what I'm tweeting out here,
Speaker 1: I gotta be a little careful and uh, you know, okay,
Speaker 1: because I gotta remember, like you know, everybody says, remember
Speaker 1: where you're from. I grew up in Rolling Hills, California,
Speaker 1: you know. I I grew up in a beach community.
Speaker 1: And so now what I do is I make sure
Speaker 1: I check every lyric as it's written. Yeah you don't.
Speaker 1: Some of the motives act like yeah exactly, So I
Speaker 1: just I just make sure I I get it. So
Speaker 1: I actually plan them out now. Before I used to
Speaker 1: do them just when I got up, I listen to something.
Speaker 1: Maybe I listened something the day before, had something I
Speaker 1: was thinking about, and then I wound up. I wound
Speaker 1: up tweeting off the same album too much, I thought,
Speaker 1: so I started. I've actually planned it out a little
Speaker 1: better now, all right, what today's was a't no retreat.
Speaker 1: I'm bouncing back on my feet is really in the field.
Speaker 1: You better buy some cleats. I gotta go to work.
Speaker 1: I love that one because of the cleats park that was.
Speaker 1: That was cleets. There you go. Who was your favorite
Speaker 1: team growing up? Any sport? The Dodgers? You know, growing
Speaker 1: up in l A. I played baseball as a kid,
Speaker 1: and I love the Dodgers. I was a big Laker
Speaker 1: fan and the Rams l A Rams were a big
Speaker 1: deal when I was a kid. Uh and and loved
Speaker 1: all that, and then loved U c l A um
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, I was a front runner. I loved
Speaker 1: U c l A Basketball in USC football. But but
Speaker 1: I think the longest kind of love affair I've had
Speaker 1: with any team has been the Dodgers because I I
Speaker 1: just to me, you know, going to Dodger Stadium during
Speaker 1: the summer with my friends. One of my best friends,
Speaker 1: his parents had season tickets, so we used to go
Speaker 1: quite a bit when his parents didn't want to go.
Speaker 1: And back then I knew, I mean I knew who
Speaker 1: was playing in the Dodgers farm system and uh in Albuquerque. Man,
Speaker 1: I could tell you anything. I don't have the time
Speaker 1: for it anymore. But when the Dodgers won this year,
Speaker 1: I was I was pretty geeked up. Me to Raoul,
Speaker 1: momda See, yeah, that's all I can go. I go
Speaker 1: back a way before that. I go back to like
Speaker 1: Don Sutton and Steve Garvey and Davy loebs run say,
Speaker 1: all those guys back in the back in the seventies
Speaker 1: and uh uh, you know, my grandfather took me and
Speaker 1: my brother to the to the World Series in nine four.
Speaker 1: I didn't know my head from my rear end back then,
Speaker 1: but it was pretty damn cool. That's awesome. I still
Speaker 1: have a ral Mondesty jersey right now, a real Dodgers
Speaker 1: like like, I still have it in my in my
Speaker 1: jerseys right now. That's bucket lists for me. Go see
Speaker 1: a game in l A. I've seen him play before,
Speaker 1: because that's bucket lists with me. Go to l A
Speaker 1: and catch a game. So where we know where you're from,
Speaker 1: but where are you from in a place you call
Speaker 1: your hometown? My hometown is placed call was born in
Speaker 1: San Pedro, California, and then I grew up in a
Speaker 1: town called Rolling Hills, which is not far from Torrance,
Speaker 1: Rodondo Beach Um and the other side it was called
Speaker 1: the Hill. So the other side of the hill from
Speaker 1: where I grew up was Palace Verdes. So right now,
Speaker 1: um uh, people know kind of where I grew up from. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know that that Trump golf course is there on
Speaker 1: the water and that's if you just if you leave
Speaker 1: the front gate of that golf course and go up
Speaker 1: over the hill, you'll run into my parents house. On
Speaker 1: the other side of the hill. We just called the
Speaker 1: poor side of the hill. But it was pretty nice.
Speaker 1: So San Pedro, you know, I grew up in l
Speaker 1: A and and and San Pedro at that time you
Speaker 1: were growing up. How has it changed and Rolling Hills?
Speaker 1: How has it changed today? Well, Rolling Hills has gone
Speaker 1: from being an area where a blue collar you know,
Speaker 1: blue collar worker that had done well could live too.
Speaker 1: Now it's a wealthy zip code and uh so that's
Speaker 1: changed a lot. And the people who move in there,
Speaker 1: the folks that have been living there forever, have been
Speaker 1: able to stay because of something called Proposition thirteen, which
Speaker 1: was a little bit before your time, but it was
Speaker 1: that was a it is still in effect now as
Speaker 1: a law, but it was something that, uh it froze
Speaker 1: your property taxes. So when my dad bought bought his
Speaker 1: house in Rolling Hills, he is paying the same property
Speaker 1: on the same tax basis that he bought the house,
Speaker 1: and the tax basis will only change. That's why California's bankrupt.
Speaker 1: The tax basis will only change when he sells it,
Speaker 1: so the new owner will take the tax hit on
Speaker 1: the value of the property. So in in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. Uh, my parents can't afford to move, um,
Speaker 1: and it costs him a fortune to move and UM,
Speaker 1: so they've stayed there. Sampedro's changed. That's the port of
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. So my dad, before I was born, was
Speaker 1: a commercial fisherman and then became a He got into
Speaker 1: the electronics business after he got out of the fishing business.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, just the demographics have changed, um,
Speaker 1: as far as the makeup of the city, which has
Speaker 1: been a good thing. Um, but it was very ethnic
Speaker 1: at the time. Like my dad's from from Yugoslavia, former
Speaker 1: Yugoslavia and uh and his family and so it was
Speaker 1: a heavy yugoslav influence at the time. Uh. So it's
Speaker 1: those demographics have changed and it's a lot different now,
Speaker 1: but it's still a great community and and support of
Speaker 1: Los Angeles is gigantic now. I mean it was big
Speaker 1: when I was a kid. You drive by there, now
Speaker 1: it's huge. I mean it's it's um, it's not I
Speaker 1: don't want to say it's off putting, but if you
Speaker 1: grew up out there, you're like, this is totally different now.
Speaker 1: I mean all the containers and um, it is the
Speaker 1: stuff that moves in and out of there, all the
Speaker 1: cars and and things that come in from all over
Speaker 1: the world. Um, you know, it's really remarkable to see.
Speaker 1: We have to take a break in the morning. Thing.
Speaker 1: We gotta pay some bills. I love cut to It
Speaker 1: and I love it even more when you download us
Speaker 1: and subscribe and you can follow us on social media
Speaker 1: to Smithie where where at? That's at? Cut to It
Speaker 1: on Instagram? What about Twitter? At? Cut to It? Facebook?
Speaker 1: Cut to It featuring Steve Smith singr? What about online?
Speaker 1: And you can follow Louis at cut to It podcast
Speaker 1: dot com where you can buy merch and you can
Speaker 1: subscribe to this wherever you listen to podcasts. I got
Speaker 1: all my answers questions. Um, yeah, I got all my
Speaker 1: questions answered. That's what I'm here for, a brother cut
Speaker 1: to a podcast dot com. Growing up in Rolling Hills
Speaker 1: near San Pedro, What how did it shape your perspective
Speaker 1: on how you see the world today? Well, I mean
Speaker 1: I think I grew up in a little bit of
Speaker 1: a bubble honestly where you know I went to. If
Speaker 1: it weren't for basketball, I think my my view of
Speaker 1: things would be would be colored differently. Um, basketball took
Speaker 1: me into so many areas of southern California used to play.
Speaker 1: I used to go play pick up at Carson High
Speaker 1: School and Narbonne and all these different places. Um, and
Speaker 1: you know, so I got to know a lot of
Speaker 1: people that I wouldn't have gotten to know otherwise. And
Speaker 1: and so it was it was great for me. And
Speaker 1: it was a sort of a world, you know, world
Speaker 1: worldly experience, I thought. And then and then it it
Speaker 1: obviously took me all over the world. But um, I
Speaker 1: think when you when you grow up like the place
Speaker 1: I grew up, as as the peninsula jets out from
Speaker 1: from the coast a little bit. So the truth was,
Speaker 1: nobody went to my area unless they had a reason
Speaker 1: to be there. It wasn't like a pass through area,
Speaker 1: so you could get a little bit sheltered. And basketball
Speaker 1: took that took me out of there because I played
Speaker 1: every weekend from fourth grade through high school. Every weekend
Speaker 1: I played out of town somewhere. And during the week
Speaker 1: at night, you want to go get a game, and
Speaker 1: so you'd go play pick up wherever there was a
Speaker 1: good pickup game. I mean I was at Venice Beach
Speaker 1: playing outside or um, you know, I mentioned we'd go
Speaker 1: to Carson High School all these different places and play
Speaker 1: and uh and so I made a lot of friends
Speaker 1: doing that that have been friends to this day. Uh.
Speaker 1: So that that was what sort of opened my eyes
Speaker 1: to the way the world was, more so than anything
Speaker 1: else about the area I grew up in. So who
Speaker 1: introduced you to basketball before you became this top fifty
Speaker 1: recruit averaging twenty four and fourteen? My mother wanted me
Speaker 1: out of the house, so she had when I was
Speaker 1: in third grade. She had read something in the local
Speaker 1: paper about basketball tryouts for the local, you know, little
Speaker 1: bitty league, and so she took me up there and
Speaker 1: kind of pushed me out of the car, and I
Speaker 1: tried out for the league. And I thought, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: the way it works is, you know, get to fourth grade,
Speaker 1: you get picked on a team, and you play for
Speaker 1: the Little Lakers or whatever, the Little Celtics. You play
Speaker 1: your high school or you play at the local high
Speaker 1: school every Saturday. And I wound up making something called
Speaker 1: a conference team, which was basically a travel team. So
Speaker 1: we played uh forty fifty games a year, and we
Speaker 1: traveled for all of them. So we would play all
Speaker 1: over Southern California, and we'd pile into the coach's car
Speaker 1: and and one of the parents they drive us to
Speaker 1: games and we played sometimes on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
Speaker 1: We play in three different tournaments. And it got to
Speaker 1: the point where we would start a game with our
Speaker 1: full team, and in the second half, like at the
Speaker 1: end of the third quarter, um, half the team would
Speaker 1: go with one of the dads and go start the
Speaker 1: next game. And then when the guys finished, they hop
Speaker 1: in the next car and go meet them and finish
Speaker 1: the game. But we played sometimes, I'd play nine games
Speaker 1: in a weekend, and UM, I played. You know, we
Speaker 1: we all were teams, you know, all our teammates. We
Speaker 1: wound up playing in high school together. So we played
Speaker 1: hundreds of you know, a couple of hundred games together
Speaker 1: before we ever got to high school. And so we
Speaker 1: knew each other really well and hung out and every weekend,
Speaker 1: and and that was really fun. I learned a lot
Speaker 1: about about things just from doing that. And it was
Speaker 1: all just because you know, I I my mom wanted
Speaker 1: me out and uh and I from the first time
Speaker 1: I dribbled a ball, I fell in love with it.
Speaker 1: And I played baseball too, but I didn't love baseball
Speaker 1: like I love basketball, and that's sort of where it
Speaker 1: came from. And and and that was like that was
Speaker 1: all my parents needed to keep me in line. Was
Speaker 1: if I ever did anything that got out of line,
Speaker 1: they were like, all right, you're not playing, And I was.
Speaker 1: I would do anything to to keep playing. So I
Speaker 1: actually did what I was supposed to do, just because
Speaker 1: I wanted to keep playing ball. Well, you said you
Speaker 1: lived in a bubble, so is it safe to say
Speaker 1: your perspective on all the different cultures that you experienced
Speaker 1: it going into the different areas of southern California really
Speaker 1: helped you, um to where you know, I mean I
Speaker 1: find it interesting and I know you but yet find
Speaker 1: it interesting knowing your playlist of rap music? Did that
Speaker 1: have to that? Did that start with the integrating of
Speaker 1: cultures and just hanging around so cultured now, yeah, to
Speaker 1: just hanging around different different kinds of people. Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1: I mean I think it was more. I think that
Speaker 1: sort of the rap music thing was more, um, you know,
Speaker 1: things that were popular at the time that that caught
Speaker 1: our fancy more than more than anything. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: a there's a big difference in appreciating black culture and
Speaker 1: understanding Black America and what you know, what Black Americans
Speaker 1: have gone through and are going through now. And I
Speaker 1: think that's in my view, that's the biggest disconnect in
Speaker 1: the in the conversation we're trying to have now where
Speaker 1: people sort of understand that no, it's it is not systemic.
Speaker 1: Racism does exist. It doesn't mean that everybody is racist,
Speaker 1: but there are racist policies that we still live with
Speaker 1: and and and that shape our society. And when you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Steve, if you'll you'll remember this you
Speaker 1: were younger, but or you are younger. But when I
Speaker 1: was a senior in college, um, I was a classmate
Speaker 1: of Lynn Bias that played in Maryland. So when Lynn
Speaker 1: Bias died, um, I think it was two days after that.
Speaker 1: A famous football player named Don Rodgers died exactly the
Speaker 1: same way. And I played against uh Don Rogers brother,
Speaker 1: Reggie Rodgers, played basketball against him. He wound up going
Speaker 1: to the University of Washington, played in the NFL too.
Speaker 1: He's a great just great athlete. So when Bias and
Speaker 1: Rogers both died of of cocaine overdoses, that's when that's
Speaker 1: when Congress came up with all of these federal sentencing
Speaker 1: guidelines and what what what people probably don't realize today
Speaker 1: is is so much of our prison population is made
Speaker 1: up of low level drug offenders and they're they're predominantly
Speaker 1: African American. And that goes back to sort of that
Speaker 1: that book the Color of Law, like that's those are
Speaker 1: those are issues of law. Those are not issues of
Speaker 1: people deciding to live in an area in self selecting.
Speaker 1: That's not what that is. And I think have having
Speaker 1: people understand that that's a that's a hell of a
Speaker 1: lot different. Understanding that is a hell of a lot
Speaker 1: different than understanding, you know, and have an appreciation for
Speaker 1: what Jalen Rose likes to call people who love black culture,
Speaker 1: you know, so so appreciating hip hop and rap music
Speaker 1: that that's that's nothing. Um. That's a lot different than
Speaker 1: understanding the um the system we live in and how
Speaker 1: it is it is slanted toward h white America and
Speaker 1: slanted against minority America. And it's not it's not just
Speaker 1: African Americans, but it's predominantly and and it's a our
Speaker 1: our unwillingness to have that conversation, I think is UM
Speaker 1: is the biggest hurdle we have to get over ibl
Speaker 1: as a society, that we have to honestly have the
Speaker 1: conversation rather than when there's an issue of police brutality,
Speaker 1: somebody asking the question of well, how many how many
Speaker 1: white people were killed by cotton. No, that's not the question,
Speaker 1: That's just not it. And and uh, we're we're having,
Speaker 1: I think we're having as a society a hard time
Speaker 1: of of addressing that honestly. And until we do, we're
Speaker 1: gonna keep going in circles on this. I really believe that.
Speaker 1: Kudos to you j for um acknowledging that and and
Speaker 1: and leading us towards the conversation, because that's the biggest part. Well,
Speaker 1: and that's the when you say route, cause, like I
Speaker 1: I always try to look at when when you're thinking
Speaker 1: about the end result and and why are we getting
Speaker 1: this result, you have to go to the origins and
Speaker 1: so what are the origins of these laws? What are
Speaker 1: the origins of of these issues? And until we understand
Speaker 1: the origins of things, we're not going to understand why
Speaker 1: we're getting the end result. And so when there was
Speaker 1: recently some changes in the criminal justice system, while you
Speaker 1: know you applaud the changes. One of the questions I
Speaker 1: had was, well, why aren't we letting out the low
Speaker 1: level drug offenders that that were subject to these um
Speaker 1: unjust laws in the first place, Like haven't they served
Speaker 1: more than their time? And and let's remedy those past
Speaker 1: wrongs in addition to uh, yeah, yeah, exactly, if we're
Speaker 1: going to decriminalize it going forward, let's acknowledge that we
Speaker 1: made mistakes back in the eighties that have perpetuated to
Speaker 1: the day to this day. And let's right those wrongs too.
Speaker 1: And uh. And for some reason, we we have an
Speaker 1: unwillingness to do that. And you know, look, we have
Speaker 1: an industrial prison complex now that you know privatization. There
Speaker 1: are so many issues that go with that. But until
Speaker 1: we're willing to look at the origins of things that
Speaker 1: acknowledge all of the systemic issues, then then we're we're
Speaker 1: going to continue to be arguing over you know, some
Speaker 1: of these end results things and and uh and I
Speaker 1: get honestly, you know, you're you're having tough conversations with
Speaker 1: your friends over the last several years. And uh and
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm hopeful that you know, rather than
Speaker 1: people feeling defensive about it, like I don't feel like
Speaker 1: just um for myself, I don't feel like I need
Speaker 1: to feel guilty about things, but I need to feel
Speaker 1: responsible about the world we're living in. And so so
Speaker 1: accepting the responsibility for the way the way things are
Speaker 1: is the only way we're gonna we're gonna take steps
Speaker 1: towards making positive change in the future. So so I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think anybody is asking white America
Speaker 1: to feel guilty, but they're asking for responsibility to be
Speaker 1: accepted and to be understood so that we can we
Speaker 1: can change. And uh, and I don't see where that
Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with that. I love this conversation and
Speaker 1: and I want to take a step further and really
Speaker 1: just talk about some of the things that you've done.
Speaker 1: You you're outstanding analysts, uh broadcaster for ESPN and and
Speaker 1: just basketball, And obviously your knowledge of basketball exceeds my,
Speaker 1: uh miniature knowledge of basketball, which is I am a
Speaker 1: true fan. I am, but I'm a fan of basketball
Speaker 1: in the way. I'm not gonna comment. I don't think
Speaker 1: about can this guy play or not play? I just watched,
Speaker 1: I just enjoyed. I'm not gonna tweet all, this guy
Speaker 1: can't shoot. I know, the guy can't shoot. Looks like
Speaker 1: he's sitting on the couch, right. But Jay, you've been
Speaker 1: extremely outspoken. And I am alumni and very heavily involved
Speaker 1: in my in my college University of Utah, and I've
Speaker 1: seen the way the game of collegian sports has changed.
Speaker 1: But I've also seen the good and the bad. I mean, you,
Speaker 1: these kids are coming out where it doesn't matter what
Speaker 1: school they go to. Now they can go Division one,
Speaker 1: they go Division one, double a division to every school
Speaker 1: to some degree has a sponsorship by a buy a
Speaker 1: shoe company, right, And I mean I've seen something and
Speaker 1: even some of the gear I get like, this is ridiculous.
Speaker 1: They backpack socks, shoes, jocks, underwears, T shirts, beanies, scarfs,
Speaker 1: like now the mask that we have to wear it
Speaker 1: even has the logo of the school. We both are
Speaker 1: a little bit long in the tooth on sports, but
Speaker 1: we both have been around it enough to see the
Speaker 1: metamorphosis of of collegiate sports. Where do you believe it,
Speaker 1: obviously in basketball, where do you believe collegiate sports is heading?
Speaker 1: Good and bad? Now? I know journalistically that was a
Speaker 1: that was a no no, I asked you two questions,
Speaker 1: double barrel. But what do you think it is right now? Jay, Well,
Speaker 1: the way I viewed Stephen and I got involved in
Speaker 1: this stuff on the policy side when I was in college.
Speaker 1: I was a member of the n C Double a's
Speaker 1: Long Range Planning Committee when I was a player at Duke.
Speaker 1: So I spent two and a half years on that committee,
Speaker 1: and the n C Double A probably regrets having me
Speaker 1: on because I learned how policy was made. And while
Speaker 1: at the time I had some pretty strong opinions in
Speaker 1: committee rooms, when the meeting was over, I didn't go
Speaker 1: out and voice my disagreement publicly because I didn't think
Speaker 1: that was appropriate and and also you knew what got rewarded,
Speaker 1: so I wasn't gonna step out of line. But now
Speaker 1: that in my job. My job is to, you know,
Speaker 1: not only analyze a game, but it's analyzed the game
Speaker 1: and the policies that surrounded and the drive it. And
Speaker 1: so my view is college sports is no different than
Speaker 1: professional sports, except the only difference is that the players
Speaker 1: are enrolled in school. That is the only difference. It
Speaker 1: is sold the same way, it is marketed, the same way.
Speaker 1: Um the players to your point about apparel contracts with
Speaker 1: the school. The players are unpaid billboards for sneaker companies.
Speaker 1: And now when you were in the NFL, you were
Speaker 1: a paid billboard. So you know, the the NFL has
Speaker 1: an apparel deal. Uh. For for a time, you were
Speaker 1: probably with Reebok and Nike all these other things for
Speaker 1: for the uniforms and the gear. Uh say with the
Speaker 1: before you were with the Raves of Panthers um. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know you were wearing Panthers gear and maybe it
Speaker 1: was Reebok logo on it and all that with the
Speaker 1: Panthers at the time, I think it was in between
Speaker 1: Rebok and Nike, So Nike Rebok had it first Nike,
Speaker 1: but then my er old deal. I was with Rebo,
Speaker 1: my own personal deal. I was with Rebox for ten
Speaker 1: a half years and then I switched to So you right,
Speaker 1: so you wore your you had a shoe deal, so
Speaker 1: you could wear what you wanted on your feet. But
Speaker 1: when you were in NFL, um in your team activities,
Speaker 1: you wore your team issued gear that had the Reebok
Speaker 1: logo or the Nike logo whatever it was at the time.
Speaker 1: So by virtue of the fact that you were you
Speaker 1: were a paid employee of the Panthers. You know, you
Speaker 1: were a paid billboard for the NFL gear, and then
Speaker 1: you had your own deal for your shoe, and then
Speaker 1: on your off time you were wearing Rebok or under
Speaker 1: Arm or whatever it was at the time, and paid
Speaker 1: by directly by the company. So the players now, people
Speaker 1: sometimes look to your point earlier about the amount of
Speaker 1: gear they get. Some people will look at, well, look
Speaker 1: at what the players get, so they get more more
Speaker 1: gear than we got when we played. Well, I look
Speaker 1: at it as what they're allowed like. It's not like
Speaker 1: the university says, well, here is a here's a gift
Speaker 1: certificate to Dick Sporting Goods. Go get whatever you want.
Speaker 1: They don't say that. They issue them this gear and
Speaker 1: they have to wear it. They're not allowed to wear
Speaker 1: anything else because because the school is contracted to wear that.
Speaker 1: And in fact, when I was playing, you were playned
Speaker 1: in college. If we had covered up the logo on
Speaker 1: our on our shoes for a game, if they call
Speaker 1: that spatting. If we had taken tape and covered up
Speaker 1: the logo, the university was required to give back money
Speaker 1: to the shoe company. We we were unpaid billboards. And
Speaker 1: my thing is, like the the contracts for media rights,
Speaker 1: deals for television, UH, ancillary rights, internet whatever, um, all
Speaker 1: those are exactly the same. NFL college football, NBA college
Speaker 1: They're exactly the same, exactly. The only difference is in
Speaker 1: what the players are allowed. And and so every once
Speaker 1: in a while when I say, hey, players, college players
Speaker 1: are exploited. Uh, people go, oh, I wish somebody would
Speaker 1: exploit me like that. And I said, no, that's not
Speaker 1: that you're not taking that the right way. They're exploited
Speaker 1: in that somebody is using them to make money while
Speaker 1: at the same time limiting what they can make. That
Speaker 1: is the textbook definition of exploitation. Doesn't mean they're mistreated,
Speaker 1: it means they're exploited. Those are two different things. And
Speaker 1: my thing is, if they're old enough to sell for
Speaker 1: billions of dollars, they're old enough to share in the revenue.
Speaker 1: And in the NFL players NBA players, they have a union,
Speaker 1: they negotiate with the league, and they're paid. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: they get a percentage of basketball related revenue whatever that is. Uh.
Speaker 1: And people go, well, the NBA has a salary cap. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a lot different to say the players get a
Speaker 1: scholarship only, and boy the end of you know, the
Speaker 1: NBA players are limited to of basketball related revenue. That
Speaker 1: that's a a pretty big difference in in treatment. So
Speaker 1: my thing is when people say, well, we don't want
Speaker 1: the college football to be a minor league for the NFL,
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about that. It is not
Speaker 1: a minor league. Minor leagues don't make billions of dollars
Speaker 1: and have multibillion dollar television deals. College football and college
Speaker 1: basketball are major league sports, their major league. They stand
Speaker 1: on their own. Now what the players do afterwards. Nobody
Speaker 1: says that college football and college basketball are minor league
Speaker 1: systems for coaches. So when a coach, when when Pete
Speaker 1: Carroll jumps from USC to the Seahawks, nobody said, well,
Speaker 1: college football shouldn't be a minor league for coaches. You know,
Speaker 1: they don't say that, um, because it's major league and
Speaker 1: and it should be major league for the players and
Speaker 1: they should be allowed to share in it because every
Speaker 1: other student. Uh, there's no restriction on what a normal
Speaker 1: student can earn or accept. Like athletics scholarships aren't the
Speaker 1: only scholarships that are provided. Regular students are on scholarship too,
Speaker 1: and nobody tells them, well, you've got a scholarship there short,
Speaker 1: therefore you're limited to only that. Only an athlete has
Speaker 1: told that, and I think that's wrong. I think it's
Speaker 1: about that time. Just take a little breather. Good, do
Speaker 1: it good. That's getting down to do it good. Hey Gerard,
Speaker 1: why did you get that T shirt? You mean this thing? Oh? Yes,
Speaker 1: I got it from cut to a podcast dot com
Speaker 1: where we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys
Speaker 1: at seven oh four shot. But yeah, you can go on,
Speaker 1: buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. Jay, I know you. You just said
Speaker 1: something around um college players and then being essentially essential workers.
Speaker 1: Would you mind sharing your thought process around that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was. I said it during the Duke Illinois game.
Speaker 1: And I've been hearing from a lot of coaches essentially
Speaker 1: saying privately, what are we doing? They're They're like, I
Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable with us. This isn't there's something wrong
Speaker 1: with us. So right now, college football players and college
Speaker 1: basketball players are living in isolation there in bubbles, and
Speaker 1: there're some of some of them are living in hotels
Speaker 1: some programs have their entire teams in hotels, not on campus,
Speaker 1: and they're really only allowed out so that they can play.
Speaker 1: And it's a it's a huge sacrifice for the players.
Speaker 1: But um uh, and they're tested every day, when healthcare
Speaker 1: workers on their campus aren't tested at all. Uh, they're
Speaker 1: only tested if they get ill. So you know, I
Speaker 1: don't think that that we can even reasonably make a
Speaker 1: case that these aren't These aren't professionals. They're they're they're
Speaker 1: professional players and their revenue drivers for this multibillion dollar business.
Speaker 1: Our government is telling us only to travel when it's essential,
Speaker 1: and our football and basketball teams are traveling all over
Speaker 1: the country, so by definition it must be essential. And uh.
Speaker 1: And look, I'm not comparing them in importance to true
Speaker 1: essential workers, but they're they're being used as essential worker.
Speaker 1: You're using it as an example because there are people
Speaker 1: who don't know that all this is going on. They
Speaker 1: have college kid, young man a college I mean, you
Speaker 1: got kids. I hate to bring this up, but you
Speaker 1: got kids crying on the bench of basketball games. These
Speaker 1: are young, immature young men who are just trying to
Speaker 1: find their way. They are trying to just put it together.
Speaker 1: This jigsaw puzzle is not working. How would that affect
Speaker 1: your cycling? How would that affect your mental health? With
Speaker 1: all of this going on, it's a big issue. Like
Speaker 1: like what I find interesting are the rationalizations and excuses,
Speaker 1: and you know, like we're going, we're grasping for these
Speaker 1: justifications to continue playing. So now, what coaches are saying
Speaker 1: is that, well, the players are safer doing this than
Speaker 1: they would be if we let them go home for Christmas,
Speaker 1: because none of them can go home. Nope, because because
Speaker 1: if they let them out of their isolation bubbles, they
Speaker 1: might come back with COVID or uh you know, they
Speaker 1: have to quarantine. They'll lose games and lose revenue opportunities.
Speaker 1: So they're they're they're justifying this by saying, well, they're safer. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: if you if you believe that, there may be some
Speaker 1: truth in that. I'm not suggesting it's it's not. I
Speaker 1: would agree with some of that because of some of
Speaker 1: these young men and women are coming from the same
Speaker 1: type of places with health standards and some of that
Speaker 1: stuff that question that they would receive at the college
Speaker 1: or professional level. But but what what we what we're
Speaker 1: also saying when we say that that, well, look what
Speaker 1: we're doing for the players, we really care about them.
Speaker 1: We're keeping we're keeping the revenue drivers safe by having
Speaker 1: them continue to drive revenue. Isn't that convenient? But what
Speaker 1: we're also saying by extension is we don't care as
Speaker 1: much about the other sport athletes that we're letting go home,
Speaker 1: And we don't care about our regular students that we're
Speaker 1: sending home, like the regular students aren't allowed to stay
Speaker 1: on campus anymore, and and so so we're saying sing, well,
Speaker 1: we don't care as much about them. So the logic
Speaker 1: kind of falls down there. And look, it's not that
Speaker 1: I don't want us to play. What I'd like to
Speaker 1: see happen is that we within the college space have
Speaker 1: a national conversation. And we've proven that we can play.
Speaker 1: The question is should we And and I don't know
Speaker 1: the right answer to that. If this continues, if this pandemic,
Speaker 1: in this current surge that we're in continues to get worse,
Speaker 1: which the experts are telling us that it will uh
Speaker 1: based upon you know, based upon what metrics, will we
Speaker 1: pause or will we adjust? And we haven't had that
Speaker 1: conversation whether this is right because I'm telling you, well, well,
Speaker 1: a few of the coaches are publicly saying I think
Speaker 1: we need to press forward. There are a number of
Speaker 1: them privately saying I don't feel right about this. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just came back from a game in Madison, Wisconsin
Speaker 1: where there were probably sixty people overall including the teams
Speaker 1: and staff in the building total, and and you know,
Speaker 1: we're there broadcasting the game. It was like it was
Speaker 1: like being in a hospital setting. And uh, and I,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know the right I don't know
Speaker 1: the right answer. I'm not claiming I do. But one
Speaker 1: thing I do know is we haven't had the right
Speaker 1: conversation around it. And we're just pressing forward to make money.
Speaker 1: This is all about money, and it's not like they're
Speaker 1: putting their paid employees at greater risk. But but you know,
Speaker 1: the funny part is the paid employees go home to
Speaker 1: their families every night, and the players are in isolation
Speaker 1: and and not able to see their families, and there's
Speaker 1: a there's something that that there's a contradiction there that
Speaker 1: is unsettling, and most of the public doesn't know about it, frankly,
Speaker 1: nor do they care. And you know, I Liken it
Speaker 1: a little bit too. Several years ago. I don't remember
Speaker 1: exactly the year, but you don't remember, Steve, when when
Speaker 1: the NFL and the the NFL officials were arguing. You know,
Speaker 1: we're fighting over over money there. I think it was
Speaker 1: the the officials pensions, and so the officials were locked
Speaker 1: out and we're we're watching games where the official you know,
Speaker 1: the replacement of officials suck. And it was really it
Speaker 1: was really affecting the product. So I'm sitting at home
Speaker 1: kind of like you were saying about your basketball viewing.
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a football fan. I just don't know
Speaker 1: anything about it. I don't I'm a novice in it.
Speaker 1: I just enjoy the hell out of it. But I
Speaker 1: could tell that the products being affected. I didn't like it.
Speaker 1: So when when it was settled, uh, And I didn't
Speaker 1: care whether the officials got what they wanted and whether
Speaker 1: it was fair. I had football back the way I
Speaker 1: wanted it. And I think that's the way most fans
Speaker 1: look at basketball. They're like, don't tell me about the
Speaker 1: players anymore. I don't care. I just want my games.
Speaker 1: And so they're getting their games now. It's not the
Speaker 1: way they're used to it, but they're getting them. And
Speaker 1: so they're saying, well, the players are fine or they
Speaker 1: want to play, And since when have we listened to
Speaker 1: what the players want? You know? But now if the
Speaker 1: players want something that we want, now we're listening to them.
Speaker 1: You know, the players want to play, okay, Well, if
Speaker 1: there's lightning in the area, We're not asking the players
Speaker 1: if they want to stay out in the field play.
Speaker 1: We're saying it's dangerous condition, get off the field until
Speaker 1: it's safe. And we're not doing that now. We're not
Speaker 1: now it's listened to the players. When the players say
Speaker 1: they want to they want to name image and likeness rides,
Speaker 1: and they want money, we're not listening to them then,
Speaker 1: and then we're in court and fighting it. Mhm. I mean,
Speaker 1: I wish I could argue with you. You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's tough. You know. People have asked me, you know,
Speaker 1: how would you feel if you had to play now?
Speaker 1: And I and I really struggle with that answer because
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, there are teams north of
Speaker 1: ten million dollars they've spent on testing, just on tests.
Speaker 1: I mean, they guys are getting they're either spitting in
Speaker 1: a vow or the cotton swab up their nose every
Speaker 1: single day, two three times their tracked. How far are
Speaker 1: you do? You? You know, can't stand too close? I mean, guys,
Speaker 1: are you know, just talking to players? Guys are having meetings.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this j but in
Speaker 1: the NFL, guys are having meetings at home on their
Speaker 1: laptops or or or iPads. Then after the meeting, they
Speaker 1: hop in their car and go to this facility. They
Speaker 1: grab lunch, they get dressed, they're going to practice field.
Speaker 1: After the practice field, I believe. I don't even think
Speaker 1: they're allowed to shower at home. They get there in
Speaker 1: their car and they go back home and they get
Speaker 1: back on their laptops I pads for meetings. Does that
Speaker 1: sound pretty normal? That's not normal at all. I've said
Speaker 1: this jokingly, but if I see it the dude that
Speaker 1: invented zoom, I just want to hit him over the head.
Speaker 1: I am so zoom. Hey, you want to get on
Speaker 1: a zoom call? You know what I really want? This
Speaker 1: is what I really want to say to people. You
Speaker 1: want to get on zoom call? No, I do not
Speaker 1: want to get on another freaking zoom call. I'm so
Speaker 1: damn tied a zoom. What do you see as the
Speaker 1: long term effects of COVID for collegiate sports? We because
Speaker 1: we're all kind of talking about what's going on right now,
Speaker 1: what what what could potentially be the long term effects
Speaker 1: of this JAY, Well, we'll see some changes. I think
Speaker 1: one of the one of the changes we'll see is
Speaker 1: I think universities are in conferences are looking at their
Speaker 1: non revenue sports saying, why are we flying our field
Speaker 1: hockey team, the West Virginia field hockey team, Why why
Speaker 1: are they flying to the University of Texas to play
Speaker 1: a field hockey game and flying them back? You know,
Speaker 1: shouldn't this be more regional and the way we go
Speaker 1: about this, wouldn't that be smarter? And do we have
Speaker 1: to have every every team on our campus play out
Speaker 1: of the same conference or can we have conferences that
Speaker 1: are you have our football and basketball conferences that are
Speaker 1: making the money and then the other sports play you know,
Speaker 1: more uh, regional, rational smart schedules. So we'll see that.
Speaker 1: It's definitely changing the media business. UM. I think we're
Speaker 1: going to see more games that are the lower rated games,
Speaker 1: UM that will be done from remote where you'll be
Speaker 1: sitting in a studio somewhere and doing the game. And
Speaker 1: you know, somebody like me might do two or three
Speaker 1: games a day in different parts of the country, but
Speaker 1: but I'll be in one location. UM. I do think
Speaker 1: once this is over, we will get back to more
Speaker 1: normalcy and how we process the business. Um. But there
Speaker 1: will be there will be changes, and the changes will
Speaker 1: be because of money. Um. Uh. The one thing I
Speaker 1: you know, I like, I think if you were just
Speaker 1: in broadcasting, So if you're a young broadcaster coming up
Speaker 1: in the business, being out on the road and going
Speaker 1: to practice and interacting with with all the coaches and
Speaker 1: players that you're covering helps you build relationships and credibility.
Speaker 1: So right now, I do my job from remote because
Speaker 1: of the years that I've built up with relationships over
Speaker 1: the years. But if I were starting now, um, it
Speaker 1: would be really difficult to build a career without being
Speaker 1: on site um as often. So that that's part of it.
Speaker 1: It's gonna it's gonna change the dynamic. Um. But as
Speaker 1: soon as we can go back to the you know,
Speaker 1: the revenue sports, they're they're going back to driving that revenue.
Speaker 1: We're We're not quitting multi billion dollar businesses, just don't
Speaker 1: fold up over stuff like this. It's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: And to your earlier point in question, like I can
Speaker 1: tell you right now, just in the conduct of my job,
Speaker 1: I feel conflicted. You know, I'm traveling around because of
Speaker 1: the games I do. Most of the games I've done
Speaker 1: have been in person. So when I'm traveling, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel conflicted about it. And I'm doing it because
Speaker 1: it's my job and and not that I'm required to.
Speaker 1: I don't want to make it sound like that, but
Speaker 1: there are a lot there's a lot writing on these
Speaker 1: on this business, a lot of people's livelihoods, and I'm
Speaker 1: a lot I was careful before, I'm paranoid careful now
Speaker 1: because if I get this, I'm out for two weeks,
Speaker 1: and everybody that has been around me is out for
Speaker 1: two weeks because of contact tracing. And so I'm not
Speaker 1: going to put anybody's livelihood at risk because I want
Speaker 1: to have a drink with a friend. I can. I
Speaker 1: can lock myself down for several more months to get
Speaker 1: through this UM. But it does it does point up
Speaker 1: what the players are going through UM in their isolation.
Speaker 1: I mean, at least I'm going home every night these
Speaker 1: players are not. So I don't blame any of these
Speaker 1: players that are opting out, whether it be football or basketball,
Speaker 1: because this is heavy stuff and serious stuff and uh,
Speaker 1: and it goes further beyond I want to play. There's
Speaker 1: more at stake here. Like I'll give you example, I
Speaker 1: just did a game recently where the coaches gave us
Speaker 1: a background on, Look, here's what's been happening with our
Speaker 1: COVID stuff. This guy has been out because of COVID
Speaker 1: and all that. We'd appreciate if you didn't say that,
Speaker 1: but we wanted you to know why so that you
Speaker 1: had context for it. And uh and we found out, uh,
Speaker 1: probably thirty hours before the game that this one player
Speaker 1: is not going to play and we're not going to
Speaker 1: announce it until right before the game. So you know,
Speaker 1: I was glad to know that and also glad to know.
Speaker 1: But they wouldn't have told me that over the phone.
Speaker 1: There's no way if I weren't there in person. And
Speaker 1: it helped us manage the situation one on promoting the
Speaker 1: game and promoting the best player who's not going to play.
Speaker 1: We were able to deal with that. And then when
Speaker 1: when it was okay for the news was no longer
Speaker 1: embargoed that the young man was not going to play
Speaker 1: because of COVID reasons COVID protocols. Then we were able
Speaker 1: to UM to put it out there the right way.
Speaker 1: That was, you know, Hippo was okay for hippo rules
Speaker 1: and and was respectful of the young man and and
Speaker 1: in the school and all that stuff. So being there
Speaker 1: was really helpful. And uh So it creates a lot
Speaker 1: of different problems, but you know, it'still looking. They're just
Speaker 1: obstacles that you have to adapt to and overcome because
Speaker 1: everybody's dealing with the same set of problems. We just
Speaker 1: have to handle it well. Our our last segment J
Speaker 1: is called the Deep three, and so there are three
Speaker 1: questions that we asked. It really takes us beyond who
Speaker 1: you are as an analyst, who you were as a
Speaker 1: college basketball player, really focusing in on on you. So
Speaker 1: Smitty give him the first question. If you were to
Speaker 1: write another book, what would it be on probably what
Speaker 1: it means to be UM a great teammate or a
Speaker 1: great colleague or great classmate. That UM I think as
Speaker 1: I've gotten older, I like to think I was a
Speaker 1: pretty good teammate. But UM I think, looking back, I
Speaker 1: could have been better. And I'd like to explore that
Speaker 1: a little bit more about what that really means about.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody talks about, you know, team first and
Speaker 1: all that stuff, but having a we first attitude and
Speaker 1: and when I think when for me, when I think
Speaker 1: about all of the people that helped me and that
Speaker 1: were influential to me, whether it's coaches, teachers, uh, you
Speaker 1: name it, colleagues that I've worked with over the years. Um,
Speaker 1: one of the questions I've been asking myself is am
Speaker 1: I being that person for somebody else? Like? Am I
Speaker 1: being an influence that on someone else that's helping them
Speaker 1: to be what they're going to be going forward? And
Speaker 1: I'd probably want to write about that. M what's the
Speaker 1: best advice quote that coach K has given you? There
Speaker 1: are two things. One was next play that when we
Speaker 1: when I was in college playing for him, he was
Speaker 1: always saying next play that, whatever happened, good or bad,
Speaker 1: if you made him turn the ball over, made a mistake,
Speaker 1: he didn't want you dwelling on the mistake because it
Speaker 1: took you out of of playing the next play. And
Speaker 1: even if you know, if you've got to steal and
Speaker 1: took get down for a dunk. He didn't want you celebrating.
Speaker 1: You know that last make the next play and uh.
Speaker 1: And that's been a trigger phrase for me ever since,
Speaker 1: to the point where I say it to myself all
Speaker 1: the time now, like I make a mistake or you know,
Speaker 1: something doesn't go my way, I'm like, next play, like
Speaker 1: focus myself on on the present. And my father um
Speaker 1: was was kind of the same way um I had,
Speaker 1: and but he didn't say it the same way like I.
Speaker 1: I used to work for my dad during the summer
Speaker 1: and one time I was loaded up with gear, you know,
Speaker 1: doing some roofing work with him, and I took a
Speaker 1: spill off a ladder and my dad was pretty piste
Speaker 1: off about it. So he after he found out I
Speaker 1: wasn't hurt, he told me, he goes, Look, you can't
Speaker 1: get to the top of that ladder in one step,
Speaker 1: but you can get to the bottom in one step.
Speaker 1: Concentrate on what you're doing. And I really started. I
Speaker 1: really thought about that that you know what rung of
Speaker 1: that ladder was more important, the most important, and it's
Speaker 1: the one year on and you can think about the
Speaker 1: top all you want to, but if you don't handle
Speaker 1: the rung in front of you. You know, you'll be
Speaker 1: on your back at the bottom. And uh, and so
Speaker 1: I you know that and and then um, he talked
Speaker 1: about a lot when I was a younger player about Uh.
Speaker 1: He came into locker room one time when we were
Speaker 1: playing a team that if we played halfway decent, we're
Speaker 1: going to drill them, and he said, this is the
Speaker 1: most important game on our schedule. And we kind of
Speaker 1: looked at him sideways in the scattering pork on the
Speaker 1: most important game, like this isn't Carolina or you know,
Speaker 1: And he said, it's the most important game on our
Speaker 1: schedule because we're playing it. It's our next game, and
Speaker 1: everything we do is important. And if you want to
Speaker 1: play in championship games, you've gotta start treating every game
Speaker 1: like a championship game and prepare for it that way
Speaker 1: and that way. When we are in a championship game,
Speaker 1: we don't have to do anything different. This is what
Speaker 1: we do. And and I really thought about that, and
Speaker 1: it's really changed my perspective on, you know, my job
Speaker 1: as a broadcaster. Like when I first started my games
Speaker 1: weren't you know, highly rated, but the people that were
Speaker 1: watching it mattered to them, and so it better be uh.
Speaker 1: And it mattered to the players, so it better be
Speaker 1: my best performance too. It didn't matter how many people
Speaker 1: were watching, whoever was watching, it was important and I
Speaker 1: needed to treat it it. I needed to treat it
Speaker 1: like a championship game. Mhm, that's pretty good, I was
Speaker 1: writing that down. Good. What do you hope your legacy
Speaker 1: in the sports realm would be? I don't think about that, um,
Speaker 1: because I think as soon as they kick me out
Speaker 1: or or you know, I get fired or quit or whatever, Um,
Speaker 1: that train is gonna roll down the tracks as if
Speaker 1: I were never there. And I'm not saying that out
Speaker 1: of false modesty. It's true. And so what what I'm
Speaker 1: what I focus on is um Am I being a
Speaker 1: positive influence on my colleagues and the people I work with.
Speaker 1: Am I helpful to them? Uh? Am? I inspiring people
Speaker 1: as best I can to where Like I was saying before,
Speaker 1: like I'm a good teammate, But it's not about me.
Speaker 1: And uh, if if I'm doing if I'm doing my
Speaker 1: job and helping my colleagues do theirs, um I'll get
Speaker 1: I'll get what I deserve out of it. Um. I
Speaker 1: don't need to go into it with this. I used
Speaker 1: to think about, well, how how do I get ahead?
Speaker 1: How do I how do I get where I want?
Speaker 1: As opposed to how about you just do the job
Speaker 1: in front of you, like, do the work today, and
Speaker 1: and do it to the best of your ability, and
Speaker 1: make sure you're helping your teammates do it to the
Speaker 1: best of their ability. And you know, I remember reading
Speaker 1: once about you know, the Patriots have a sign in
Speaker 1: their uh their locker rooms says do your job. And
Speaker 1: I think that's great. Like I want to I want
Speaker 1: to do my job, but part of my job is
Speaker 1: helping my teammates do their job and uh and if
Speaker 1: I'm doing that, then all this legacy stuff takes care
Speaker 1: of itself. Um, because because I don't, I try not
Speaker 1: to think about about the end. I try to think
Speaker 1: about today if I if I take each day and
Speaker 1: do what I'm supposed to do, I'll have a good
Speaker 1: result at the end, hopefully. Yeah, there are some positive
Speaker 1: changes you've had through the pandemic, and then maybe some
Speaker 1: some negative changes as well. I think they go hand
Speaker 1: in hand, the negative and a positive. I think the
Speaker 1: reason that the positives have become positive because at some
Speaker 1: point I believe they were negatives, right And and you
Speaker 1: know what, the pandemic Domestic violence is up extra is
Speaker 1: up a ton and why is And in my household
Speaker 1: domestic vince does not exist. However, there are some things
Speaker 1: that the pandemic has done in our household at times
Speaker 1: through those six or seven eight nine months that were
Speaker 1: good but we had to iron out the wrinkles of
Speaker 1: the bad that turned into good communication, having better communication,
Speaker 1: talking about things, not sweeping it under the rug and
Speaker 1: walking out piste off and and and honoring and angry
Speaker 1: with each other, whether it be the kids with a
Speaker 1: wife or vice versa, or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1: Um So, I I really think that in this time,
Speaker 1: for me, what is really shown, and I think a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of couples are seeing this is
Speaker 1: it's showing your blind spot. It's showing your blind spot
Speaker 1: in your parenting. It's showing your blind spot in your career.
Speaker 1: It's showing a blind spot in your relationships with other
Speaker 1: men and women with friends. And when I say other
Speaker 1: men and women, is it's showing a blind spot? Is
Speaker 1: this man that is another man? Are we as tight
Speaker 1: of friends as we believe girlfriends. Is this you know
Speaker 1: how these mothers able to be mothers but at the
Speaker 1: same time also have their individuality, right, I'll side of
Speaker 1: being a mom outside of cooking, cleaning and taking care
Speaker 1: of the kids, uh, the husband, all of those things.
Speaker 1: And so I think the pandemic is really show again,
Speaker 1: like I said, the blind spots or whatever area you're in,
Speaker 1: whatever corporation you work for, whatever business you are associated,
Speaker 1: it really makes that blind spot bigger or it shrinks
Speaker 1: it down to where are you healthy enough to know
Speaker 1: your blind spot and then address it, address it in
Speaker 1: a way that's not that that it does not cause
Speaker 1: more chaos. I'm volving with you on the positives and
Speaker 1: negatives because one thing I evaluated in myself has been
Speaker 1: through this pandemic prior to it. How many things you
Speaker 1: would do that would just wear you down over time?
Speaker 1: Am I taking a meeting that I really don't need to?
Speaker 1: Am I doing something that um is? In my mind?
Speaker 1: Really he slowed me down when you thought that it
Speaker 1: was actually making you better. So it's really shifted the
Speaker 1: way that that I've worked to where there are certain
Speaker 1: times we would have conversations is some of that stuff
Speaker 1: is that how many know how many arguments have made
Speaker 1: you had? Yeah? How many? Yeah? So how many things
Speaker 1: just or just even not even a lunch or meeting
Speaker 1: or I don't want to say, uh panels like all
Speaker 1: those different little just things that people used to do
Speaker 1: that for the most part, are just a waste of
Speaker 1: your time. And then when you go back and look
Speaker 1: at am I being the best husband, the best father?
Speaker 1: Am I being present with my kids? Am I being
Speaker 1: president with my wife? Am I being present with you?
Speaker 1: Just hit on a good one. Am I being president?
Speaker 1: Even with my friends? Like one thing that it's done?
Speaker 1: Even just last week I called you, hey, I don't
Speaker 1: want anything, but how quick we typically are to just
Speaker 1: be transactional? What what's the checklist? What do we need
Speaker 1: to get done? Man? I'm just calling you. What what's
Speaker 1: going on? So it has forced us to be I
Speaker 1: think what I'm hearing from you is a bit more intentional,
Speaker 1: know a lot more intentional, So more more intentional. And
Speaker 1: then just looking at I love what you said with
Speaker 1: the blonde spots, like, how am I taking that not
Speaker 1: just how you work, not just um what you do,
Speaker 1: but really holistically, how how am I working better as
Speaker 1: a person? Thank you for listening, um closing out on
Speaker 1: every podcast moving forward. You can say it with me,
Speaker 1: or you could just listen. You are a unique person,
Speaker 1: You are well worth it, you are competent, and most
Speaker 1: of all, your lovable. I'm Steve Smith singor I'm Gerald
Speaker 1: Little John and this is cut to It. Cut to
Speaker 1: It with Steve Smith Senior. That Is Me is a
Speaker 1: production of Cut to It LLC, Baltol Creative Media, The
Speaker 1: Black Effect, and I Heart Radio. For more podcast from
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Speaker 1: Podcast or wherever listen to your favorite shows from Cut
Speaker 1: to It Executive producer Steve Smith, singer co host Gerard
Speaker 1: Little John, talent and booking manager Joe Fusci, social media
Speaker 1: manager Payton Smith from Balto Creative Media. Cut to It
Speaker 1: is produced by Brian Baltaschevitch and Meredith Carter, with production
Speaker 1: assistance by Alex Lebrec, Production manager Sarah Pollock. Theme music
Speaker 1: by Alex Johnson, lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton. You
Speaker 1: ain't heard about it, then we're about to let you know.
Speaker 1: It's all