Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club Morning Everybody is DJ n V, Jess Hilarious,
Speaker 2: Charlamagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club law Laosa
Speaker 2: filling in for Jess. We got a special guest in
Speaker 2: the building asaf Joe. He has represented on MJ Meek.
Speaker 2: The Washington Commander is Donald Trump, Foxy Brown, Neo Swiss Beats,
Speaker 2: and of course ASAP Rocky.
Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, we have Attorney Joe Tacopina. Did I
Speaker 3: say last day right?
Speaker 1: It did perfect?
Speaker 3: How are you feeling this morning?
Speaker 1: Tired but really good, really good. Yeah. So it's uh,
Speaker 1: it was a five week war, but I've never been happier.
Speaker 1: I mean those two people. When I say those two people,
Speaker 1: Rocky Ree Rihanna just such great people. I've gotten to
Speaker 1: know them over three years, really well at babysat fore
Speaker 1: of the Hid's one throwing her super Bowl performance. Wow,
Speaker 1: they're just good people. They're really for real good people.
Speaker 1: You know, you just listened a bunch of people I've represented.
Speaker 1: Rocky stands out. Really that's a terrific guy. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Really, you know it's interesting now, people always when we
Speaker 4: see these cases, they always wonder how the client is
Speaker 4: doing right, like how is they sat? But I would
Speaker 4: think it's just more mentally and emotionally draining for you
Speaker 4: as an attorney.
Speaker 1: You hit it man, I mean because look, obviously they
Speaker 1: have the stress of the unknown, right, what's going to
Speaker 1: happen when I'm on trial and whether it's Rocky or
Speaker 1: some unknown client I represent. The days goes from you know,
Speaker 1: nine in the morning in court till about four am.
Speaker 1: You just work through. And it's when you have a
Speaker 1: five week trial, you know, you're sleeping in an average
Speaker 1: of ten hours a week. Wow, But you have to.
Speaker 1: You have to. But it's fine because you go on adrenaline.
Speaker 1: It's all adrenaline based because I can't go to sleep
Speaker 1: thinking I'm leaving something out or missing one thing. And
Speaker 1: then when I go to sleep, I sleep with one
Speaker 1: I open and a pad next to my bed. But
Speaker 1: it is it's you know, it's stressful. And then in
Speaker 1: this case, in particular, where we had a prosecutor, it
Speaker 1: was you know, off the rails. I mean it was
Speaker 1: like one day every day was you know, a war
Speaker 1: with him making you know, all sorts of problems and allegations,
Speaker 1: and we got heated and it became very personal, so
Speaker 1: you know, it was it was. It was a lot
Speaker 1: for me, but of course, you know they suffer in
Speaker 1: a different way because you know, one day we Rihanna
Speaker 1: brought the babies to court and people thinking it was
Speaker 1: a ploy, like some sort of maneuver to get the
Speaker 1: joy to feel sympathy. Georgie's not feeling sympathy. They know
Speaker 1: he has a wife and kids. It was more because
Speaker 1: it was the last day of the trial and we
Speaker 1: were summing up with doing summations, and the judge sid
Speaker 1: we're going to write into Jory deliberations after that. At
Speaker 1: least that was the plan. Didn't work out that way.
Speaker 1: She worked the court because that could have been the
Speaker 1: last time he'd seen his kids for a decade or more.
Speaker 5: Wow that day, Wow, think about that.
Speaker 1: That's why she brought them, and people that prosecutor made
Speaker 1: a big deal of it in histormation, which I thought
Speaker 1: was a fatal mistake quite frankly. But I do have to.
Speaker 2: Ask, you know two things that you did that that
Speaker 2: we loved up here. One, you know, we've seen criminal
Speaker 2: attorneys a million one times, I've had Charlemagne had, but
Speaker 2: with you, it seemed like we were talking about it
Speaker 2: seems like you were fighting for your life too.
Speaker 3: What gives you the passion?
Speaker 2: Because it I mean looking at you, you were like it
Speaker 2: was like we all going to jail, you know, So
Speaker 2: what gave you the passion? Because, like I said, we
Speaker 2: see other criminal attorneys and for some you could tell
Speaker 2: when it's a check a check, and some we can
Speaker 2: tell like, no, you this is your life. So what
Speaker 2: gives you the passion when you have these cases?
Speaker 1: I don't know any other way. Whether it's Rocky I
Speaker 1: mean a Rod when I was representing, that's what you
Speaker 1: said to the New York Times, he goes to treat
Speaker 1: you like family. But I don't. I honestly, it's not
Speaker 1: like I do it, you know for a tactic. It's
Speaker 1: just I don't know any other way. When someone entrusts
Speaker 1: you with their life and it's like their life. Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe not the death penalty, but you know, their liberty
Speaker 1: for twenty years, ten years whatever. I can't. I couldn't
Speaker 1: look myself in the mirror if I didn't like, get
Speaker 1: into that bunker with them and make it personal and
Speaker 1: treat them like family, because then it you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not mailing anything in that way. I have to That's
Speaker 1: why I don't sleep thuring trials, because I have to
Speaker 1: look and make sure I'm not missing something. I want
Speaker 1: to take get every tackle advantage I could get, and
Speaker 1: in every case we always wind up ropeid doping the opponent.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we we blow stuff out on summation,
Speaker 1: they're just like, oh, you know, like they weren't ready
Speaker 1: for it. It happened in this case twelve times and
Speaker 1: they were knocked on their heels. You know, we did
Speaker 1: a five and a half hour summation I did from
Speaker 1: that jury, and they were on the edge of their
Speaker 1: seat for five and a half hours, which is you know,
Speaker 1: you know you're connecting with them when that's happening. So
Speaker 1: it's just it becomes personal. Mean, look, you just said
Speaker 1: something v that was important because when I get to
Speaker 1: the end of those summations and you know, these have
Speaker 1: been put together over the course of my career. Johnny
Speaker 1: Cochran was a mentor to me when he after the
Speaker 1: OJ case, he came to New York. You know, we
Speaker 1: opened up the firm here. He plucked me out out
Speaker 1: of obscurity and basically took me under his wing for
Speaker 1: three years, and Johnny and I worked together, you know,
Speaker 1: we crafted summations, stuff like that, and I still use
Speaker 1: some for material and I did it at the end
Speaker 1: of this case. But one thing I do is when
Speaker 1: I go to thank you know, let the dury know
Speaker 1: that an honor for me to represent this individual, and
Speaker 1: I thank the family. I turned around to look at
Speaker 1: Rocky and then I saw Rihanna. I looked at her.
Speaker 1: She's crying. Wow, she's a strong woman. Rina. I saw
Speaker 1: her crying. It hit me like a ton of bricks.
Speaker 1: I turned around, and you know, I had a I
Speaker 1: couldn't speak for a second, and then my eyes welled
Speaker 1: up and the jury is looking at me, and then
Speaker 1: two of them started crying. When I see jewis crying
Speaker 1: when I'm speaking to them during my stummation, I feel
Speaker 1: pretty good. They weren't good. You know, you got it.
Speaker 1: So that's why it's it's that's a good question. It's
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's part of how I do it.
Speaker 1: But it's not like a ploy, it's not a tactic.
Speaker 1: It's how I really feel.
Speaker 2: And what gave you the confidence that when they offered
Speaker 2: you that deal, you said f that because the world
Speaker 2: was like four, you don't only have to do six
Speaker 2: months and three months in community service a.
Speaker 4: Black man in America. First thing I said, I was like, man,
Speaker 4: I take the I.
Speaker 2: Was I'm thinking, I'm thinking, La, they're gonna let him
Speaker 2: go in a day anyway, because the jails are overpopulated.
Speaker 2: So what gave you the confidence and be like, I
Speaker 2: mean obviously you guys won, but you weren't scanned, and
Speaker 2: be like, well, maybe we should just take this deal.
Speaker 5: And whose idea was it to not take the deal?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was Rocky and I had a one minute conversation,
Speaker 1: literally one minute. Rock here's offer. I don't want to
Speaker 1: do it too. What do you think, welcome, let's go?
Speaker 6: Oh, I mean not that?
Speaker 1: Can I say that?
Speaker 3: Here? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So you didn't even think about it, like you we
Speaker 1: thought about for a second and then but here it
Speaker 1: required him to plead guilty of something I didn't do. Right,
Speaker 1: required him to say, I'm guilty of a you know,
Speaker 1: assault with a semi to mac weapon seven years suspended sentence, right,
Speaker 1: which means he's under the thumb for seven years five
Speaker 1: years probation. So if he crossed against the red they
Speaker 1: could take him back. Yeah, it's six months, which means
Speaker 1: three months. But it was a career ender for him.
Speaker 5: Really, he'll lose deals and stuff.
Speaker 1: Gucci was gone. I mean I've been dealing with Gucci
Speaker 1: for two years on its Gucci Puma, you know, all
Speaker 1: his shows. He couldn't travel out of the country with
Speaker 1: felting convictions. It was a life changer for him. And
Speaker 1: more importantly, he maintained his instance from the minute I
Speaker 1: met him three years ago. Maintained his instance. So it
Speaker 1: was it was a you know, it was really a
Speaker 1: quick decision. Yeah, people like this guy has onions and
Speaker 1: doing that kind of stuff, right, how do you do that?
Speaker 1: But I also felt very confident I knew were gonna
Speaker 1: win that.
Speaker 7: At what point do you get so I know that
Speaker 7: there's like discovery, so you get to see like what
Speaker 7: the other side has, so that helps you like craft
Speaker 7: your defense and stuff like that.
Speaker 6: But at what point did.
Speaker 7: You guys have everything? Like you knew everything upfront or
Speaker 7: where things added as things were going, We're.
Speaker 6: Like, if you ever got nervous.
Speaker 3: Like hmmm, they're trying to oh what about this? We
Speaker 3: forgot about this show about.
Speaker 1: Picked the jury? You know, I mean they came with
Speaker 1: a ballistics report that had been done a year and
Speaker 1: a half ago, and they said, oh, we just found
Speaker 1: this now we we missed it. So I'm like, you're
Speaker 1: kidding me, right, and like that kind of those games
Speaker 1: happened throughout the trial, but you know whatever, I'm used
Speaker 1: to that kind of stuff and didn't face Look, I
Speaker 1: knew we had a defense. My defense was to eviscerate
Speaker 1: this asaparately, this this absolute pathological liar, and I eviscerate
Speaker 1: him in a way that you know, I told this
Speaker 1: jewiss that you guys had a firm room seat the
Speaker 1: history because you just witnessed the worst witness in the
Speaker 1: history of American jurisprudence. Jesus. I mean, he imploded like
Speaker 1: and by the way, you know, I'm considered, you know,
Speaker 1: top cross examiner anyone could you know you could cross
Speaker 1: examine him. I mean, really it was that the guy
Speaker 1: was was his home worst enemy.
Speaker 8: Have you ever met a man that couldn't rat right?
Speaker 8: He couldn't even rat rat right. He cursed in a
Speaker 8: courtroom or a judge of jury. He cursed to the jury.
Speaker 8: He told the jury, Yeah, I lied because I didn't
Speaker 8: want to answer this guy's question.
Speaker 1: He's annoying me.
Speaker 5: He said, you're annoying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sorry, I don't mean to annoy you just
Speaker 1: want you thirty million dollars and you want to just leave.
Speaker 1: You don't want to answer questions like he shoot for
Speaker 1: thirty million dollars with knuckle scrapes. This guy's a clown
Speaker 1: and and he's a liar. He's a midliar. He's admitted perjurer.
Speaker 1: He lied at least to this story twenty times and
Speaker 1: was caught coming in perjury. I caught him in multiple
Speaker 1: At one point toward listenation, I said, oh, this is
Speaker 1: the next one's my favorite. This is a perjury mini
Speaker 1: series because he lied. It was it was like this
Speaker 1: series of lives about whether he shot a gun before
Speaker 1: November sixth, twenty twenty one, the day of the incident.
Speaker 1: And he said no, no, never I go. You sure never?
Speaker 1: He goes, yeah, never, I go. What about a shooting rage?
Speaker 1: Hot about the shooting edge? You sure it goes? Absolutely not?
Speaker 5: Ago video?
Speaker 1: I really gave him a shot igo, Absolutely, he goes,
Speaker 1: You heard me like an a large It absolutely not? Okay?
Speaker 1: Think video him and shooting at nine milimeters shell cases? Pop?
Speaker 3: Was that on his Instagram.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pulled it from I got it from his phone.
Speaker 1: But I guess the prosecutors didn't want to go through
Speaker 1: his phone like we did. See when I get discovery,
Speaker 1: there is nothing I won't look at it.
Speaker 6: Would they not go through their clients phone?
Speaker 1: He took a video of himself from twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. I'm sorry, and I guess when he
Speaker 1: turned over the phone, we got the phone also, as
Speaker 1: we're entitled to. We did it dump. I mean I
Speaker 1: brought to an agency that you know, I t company
Speaker 1: that doesn't dump. And I looked at every phone call,
Speaker 1: every message, and every picture and every video, and I
Speaker 1: saw these There was like whoo, I got the metadata.
Speaker 1: October nineteen, twenty twenty one. Okay, right before the incident,
Speaker 1: he's shooting a nine millimeter with shellcasing, popping back over
Speaker 1: his shoulder. Because don't get our theory was he placed
Speaker 1: those shellcasings, and he lied about it, and then he
Speaker 1: lied about the shellcase. Then he lied about where it was.
Speaker 1: I said, well, where was that shooting range? He said,
Speaker 1: we know, New Jersey somewhere not in California though, just
Speaker 1: not in California. And the point of that was he
Speaker 1: supposedly traveled back to New York. I started COBE nineteen.
Speaker 1: It came back right before the November sixth incident for
Speaker 1: complex not or something, and he was there, and apparently
Speaker 1: the point of the prosecutor was like, well, he couldn't
Speaker 1: fly back with shellcasings in his back. So even if
Speaker 1: he shot, you know, in a shooting range in cober
Speaker 1: A two weeks before the incident, he couldn't flown with
Speaker 1: shellcasings and the commercial plane. We found out that the
Speaker 1: shooting range was in Los Angeles, two blocks from the courthouse. Wow.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, where was the shooting range and he's like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't know, and not in Los Angeles, non California.
Speaker 3: I'm like, really, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: Over the weekend we compared the video to I went
Speaker 1: to have a shooting range of Los Angeles, saw the
Speaker 1: same thing. I was like, got him. And then we
Speaker 1: on Monday came back. He's like, oh, I checked my Instagram.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was in Los Angeles. I forgot. I go, oh,
Speaker 1: you checked your Instagram?
Speaker 9: Huh.
Speaker 1: Had nothing to do with the post that someone posted
Speaker 1: one minute before he called the district turns offs to
Speaker 1: say you know, because someone had outed him after I
Speaker 1: went there and showed that it was the same shooting
Speaker 1: range in Los Angeles. So he lied about shooting, He
Speaker 1: lied about shooting nine millimeter, he lied about where he
Speaker 1: shot the nine millimeter, and so it was just like
Speaker 1: this series of lies. And then he lied about how
Speaker 1: he found it out. He pretended he went back to
Speaker 1: his phone just because he wanted to make sure he
Speaker 1: did say things incorrect, and he found that and he
Speaker 1: called the DA. It happed to be about one and
Speaker 1: a half minute after he was tagged on a post
Speaker 1: showing his video and the shooting engine. It was just anyway.
Speaker 1: That's one example of about thirty where so I finally
Speaker 1: said to the jury at the end of this, if
Speaker 1: you can't trust this guy with a matter of importance
Speaker 1: in your own life or a life of a love
Speaker 1: on which you can never do and they only create
Speaker 1: with that, you can't trust them with the matter of
Speaker 1: importance in his life being a rocket. You just can't.
Speaker 1: And if you take them out of the equation, there's
Speaker 1: no proof that there was a shooting. There is none
Speaker 1: that could be or it could be not, And that's
Speaker 1: not proof. You unreasonable doubt and that was it. It
Speaker 1: was a three hour.
Speaker 4: Deliberation and the truth that he you said, you said
Speaker 4: that you thought that he planted the showcases, the true
Speaker 4: of the police searched the area, didn't find those show cases,
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden he.
Speaker 1: Came with stupid story. So he's claiming Rocky shot too,
Speaker 1: pops them, and the Rockety did shoot too from a
Speaker 1: prop gun, the start pest and the whole story as
Speaker 1: to why he had that, But if he shot two
Speaker 1: shots from a real nine millimeter ten minutes, the seven
Speaker 1: cops came within ten minutes with search lights. Those flashlights,
Speaker 1: they have bodycam. Thank god, they searched the exact spot
Speaker 1: where the sincident happened. Seven cops twenty minutes, that's one
Speaker 1: hundred and forty minutes of manpower, and they're looking. They
Speaker 1: find nothing, nothing, no evidence of a shooting, no broken
Speaker 1: there's a parking lot right next to it, no cars
Speaker 1: that were doing nothing. He claims it comes back now
Speaker 1: and forty five minutes later, goes to the exact same
Speaker 1: spot the cops were searching, bends down and finds the
Speaker 1: two shell cases.
Speaker 7: I mean, so what happens now? Because I know you
Speaker 7: mentioned when you walked out the court, like you want
Speaker 7: them to pursue him for perjury charges.
Speaker 1: I want them to. They should. I mean the District
Speaker 1: Attorney's office was and should be embarrassed by this guy.
Speaker 1: I mean, he absolutely played them like a fiddle. We
Speaker 1: had a tape which he first, by the way, a
Speaker 1: tape of him and one of a mutual friend of
Speaker 1: Rocky Unrellies. And he said that there was a there
Speaker 1: was a recording, and he's and when he heard the
Speaker 1: beginning of the recording he realized what that was. He
Speaker 1: was like, oh, that's fake. Get that away from It's fake.
Speaker 1: It's not my voice. It's it's it's Ai. It's like,
Speaker 1: that's fake, it's Ai. So then I had to call
Speaker 1: the poor guy who made the recording in Wally. Wally say, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's from Paris. It was in Paris's so that's my voice,
Speaker 1: that's really's voice. He said this stuff. I know nothing
Speaker 1: about this case, but yes, I'm here authenticated tape. And
Speaker 1: on the tape, what really is saying is if he
Speaker 1: gives me thirty million, I'll disappear to an island and
Speaker 1: they'll never find me. The DA can never find me,
Speaker 1: and they can't prosecute their case. You know. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, and this is his example, not mine. It's
Speaker 1: like you know, when you when you smack your bitch
Speaker 1: and she files charged against you, if she doesn't show up,
Speaker 1: the case is way weaker than That's what. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's his that's like where his mind goes to. But
Speaker 1: his thought was I'm gonna disappear to an island. The
Speaker 1: day will never find me. So I stood behind the
Speaker 1: two disc attorneys. I was like, so they'll never find
Speaker 1: him like this, and they're just saying they're like sleeking
Speaker 1: down in their chairs. I'm like, he tried to sell
Speaker 1: his criminal case for thirty million dollars. That's called extortion, Okay,
Speaker 1: so he should be prosecuted for extortion. He admitted perjury.
Speaker 1: He was caught other times committing perjury when he did
Speaker 1: admit it. I mean, this guy's a one man crime
Speaker 1: spree on the witness stand alone who.
Speaker 5: Follow charges against him.
Speaker 7: You to say, because you told me that, you guys
Speaker 7: have begin putting together transcripts and stuff like, yeah.
Speaker 1: Put to the transcripts we're going to present. You know,
Speaker 1: we have this video fortunate instingcents on TV. So we
Speaker 1: also have video. We're going to bring this to the
Speaker 1: district Attorney's office. I'm sure they'll looking for a minute
Speaker 1: and a half and disregarded. You know, they went after
Speaker 1: Rocky like you know he was I don't know, Dillinger,
Speaker 1: Pablo Escobar. I mean, they got a guy who's who's
Speaker 1: not only admitted to crimes on the stand, they got
Speaker 1: caught red handed committing extortion, light about it and tried
Speaker 1: to sell the case. Now that is to me a
Speaker 1: perversion of justice. And if you're the district attorney and
Speaker 1: you have somebody trying to sell your criminal case for
Speaker 1: thirty million dollars, I'd be mad as hell. I mean
Speaker 1: I used to be a prosecutor. I would go after
Speaker 1: him with everything I had. But you know, I don't
Speaker 1: predict that will.
Speaker 2: But what about the prosecutor because in this case, right
Speaker 2: you look at at asap the prosecutor obviously, well yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's actually what is monster's water. The prosecutor, I
Speaker 2: guess didn't do their homework right out a little bit. Right,
Speaker 2: So now I'm paying. I have to pay for my attorney.
Speaker 2: I have to pay for everything that they did for me,
Speaker 2: and they have no consequence at all.
Speaker 3: You can't sue the district attorney. Nothing is just you
Speaker 3: just got to eat that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you do. It's they have sort of
Speaker 1: this governmental community when they bring charges. As soon as
Speaker 1: have a good faith basis to bring them, you really can't.
Speaker 1: The good faith basis is. They have a video of
Speaker 1: Rocky holding one appears to be gone, and they have
Speaker 1: another video where, well, it's grainy, you do here in
Speaker 1: nest cret cam to Pops Pop Pop so, and he
Speaker 1: had a witness swearing despite the fact that he's he's
Speaker 1: his tongue is a stranger to the truth. He did swear,
Speaker 1: and so that's enough to isolate them from from civil damages.
Speaker 4: I don't understand the prop gun thing though. I was like,
Speaker 4: why would he be having a prop gun for safety?
Speaker 5: Like that's just.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's actually what happened. But here's why, Rocky.
Speaker 1: This is twenty twenty one, right, so he was still
Speaker 1: you know, he had n't He was successful, but he
Speaker 1: wasn't like rolling in crazy though, So he was successful.
Speaker 1: He didn't use full time security twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1: He does now after this, he does since that day.
Speaker 1: What happened was he did DMV video in July twenty
Speaker 1: one that actually came out the year later with Rihanna,
Speaker 1: and in that video there was tons of prop guns
Speaker 1: and that there were a lot of videos that you
Speaker 1: have those things right. And so he had just recently
Speaker 1: gotten slashed in the face in a bar. He was jumped.
Speaker 1: He has a slash scarface right now. He has that
Speaker 1: He had a stalker current at that time. In July
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one, he had a stalker active. Stalker
Speaker 1: actually broke to his house. He had home invasions. He
Speaker 1: was licensed to posess guns in the home, but not
Speaker 1: to carry his security detail. And his manager Lou Levin
Speaker 1: asap Blu, who was just a great guy in great witness,
Speaker 1: said you have to if you're not going to use
Speaker 1: this full time. You can't carry a gun, but you
Speaker 1: should least carry a prop We can make it look
Speaker 1: like a real gun, just to deter people in case
Speaker 1: someone's coming up to you rolling up and you can
Speaker 1: take it out. Rocky said, sure. Find So they took
Speaker 1: this little block which was really small. He put it
Speaker 1: in your pocketbook. Was a rock prop gun. From the video,
Speaker 1: you can see it's in the video. They put an
Speaker 1: extended magazine on it, a little bell clip to make
Speaker 1: it look more intimidating. So that's what Rocky carried when
Speaker 1: he didn't have security, And we had two witnesses testify that,
Speaker 1: and you know, his inn circle knew that. So he
Speaker 1: used it because he couldn't carry a real gun. First
Speaker 1: of all, too, he didn't want to carry a real
Speaker 1: gun because God forbid he has to use it. Then
Speaker 1: you got to really answer some stuff. But so that's
Speaker 1: why he carried it. You know, I know people like
Speaker 1: that sounds like BS prop gun proper. But what sounds
Speaker 1: like more BS is that he had a real gun
Speaker 1: fired off two nine millimeters shots. No shell case were
Speaker 1: found by the police, No damage was done anywhere in
Speaker 1: one of the shots in that grainy video, and ast
Speaker 1: Bills and this rally were an inch away from like
Speaker 1: you and I, charl they aren't even as close as
Speaker 1: they were, and he shoots someone's dying, someone's dying. No
Speaker 1: one got hit. I mean, it's it was obvious that
Speaker 1: that was not a real gun. Otherwise you would have
Speaker 1: seen things that you would receive. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: the cops on the body camp said, doesn't affect there's
Speaker 1: any evidence of a shooting here. You know, it was
Speaker 1: inches away from where the computers are, there, where the
Speaker 1: screens are. There was a parking lot with cars. It
Speaker 1: was a pay for parking lot. You know, you shoot
Speaker 1: a gun, a window is going to break, Something's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: There was nothing. They searched every car, So I think
Speaker 1: there's while I get While the prop gun thing is
Speaker 1: hard for some people to grasp, there's certainly way less
Speaker 1: evidence that it was real gun than a prop gun.
Speaker 1: And that's the bottom lie.
Speaker 7: What about this civil suit that Wally file whenever I'm
Speaker 7: not I'm sorry, I rally filed when everything first started moving.
Speaker 7: It was it's a defamation suit against Rock.
Speaker 1: No, it's assault Rocky, defamation shooting against you.
Speaker 7: Yes, she had two of them. So do you guys,
Speaker 7: are you now want to submit to like file for dismissal.
Speaker 1: Look, you know that case is running its course. I'm
Speaker 1: dealing with it on my own, with Rocky Rock as
Speaker 1: his sole case. I mean, that thing is on life
Speaker 1: support now. Obviously, I can't imagine this guy ever want
Speaker 1: to get back on a witness stand again. You know,
Speaker 1: he he can't withstand it. I mean, he was again
Speaker 1: a horrible witness. Even you know there are people inside
Speaker 1: that courtroom, you know who are there, who are part
Speaker 1: of this process, who said, how do they proceed with
Speaker 1: this guy? And they did? You know, but we had
Speaker 1: a prosecutor who was hel bent on winning, not doing justice,
Speaker 1: help bent on winning. And when you have that, it's
Speaker 1: a dangerous thing because you know they have the weight
Speaker 1: of law enforcement behind them, and and you know, prosecute's
Speaker 1: job and I used to be one, it's not solely
Speaker 1: to just secure a conviction, just to make sure you're
Speaker 1: doing right. And when a witness continually lies on a
Speaker 1: witness stand and purchase himself and you know that they are,
Speaker 1: you know sometimes okay, to take a step back and reevaluate.
Speaker 2: In your opinion, is because he was he's a celebrity
Speaker 2: that that prosecutor probably thought this was his case.
Speaker 3: This was the one that's gonnaut him on the map.
Speaker 1: Look if this would look This prosecutor has quite a history.
Speaker 1: Let's put it that way. He was the Durst prosecutor. Okay,
Speaker 1: so he was then sideline a bench for some miscandas
Speaker 1: that apparently had committed. And we're going to the Drst case.
Speaker 1: I don't need to get into it now. Yep. It
Speaker 1: was just like coming back party, like this was his
Speaker 1: first big trial since Thirst after the Old Day put
Speaker 1: him to some administrative part right, so he took this
Speaker 1: over like this was his chance to come back, high
Speaker 1: profile case on TV. He wanted to you know, this
Speaker 1: was his coming back party, and you know he got schooled.
Speaker 1: He got schooled and got put back in his little
Speaker 1: corner because he was and he was nasty. I gotta
Speaker 1: be honest with you. I don't like saying that I've
Speaker 1: again one hundred and twenty jury trials I've had, and
Speaker 1: I've gone ahead toward with opponents, with adversaries who have
Speaker 1: been hard charged like me. I could respect that. We
Speaker 1: don't have to like each other, but we could respect
Speaker 1: each other and not make it personal. This guy was
Speaker 1: off the rails. But then I spoke to other lawyers.
Speaker 1: David Chesnoff who tried I was a great lawyer from
Speaker 1: Las Vegas who tried the Dirst case. He said he
Speaker 1: almost went the blows with him, which you know, we
Speaker 1: came close a few times too.
Speaker 3: I got right in my face, Brooklyn came out that
Speaker 3: Brooklyn was out.
Speaker 1: It doesn't ever go away. But when this guy got
Speaker 1: into my face, I looked him. I said, you're gonna
Speaker 1: get hurt. You're making a mistake. I need to back
Speaker 1: up man real quick. And and you.
Speaker 5: Know, whatever did you did you have that coat before
Speaker 5: after the case?
Speaker 1: I had this before freezing outside? Okay barely?
Speaker 3: She asked about before and that's what?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, in center barber.
Speaker 5: Wow, how was that?
Speaker 1: That was crazy too? That was really crazy. Mesro was
Speaker 1: the lead lawyer in that case when I was younger,
Speaker 1: but it was it was a nutty case. And that
Speaker 1: was you know, that was another sort of travesty of justice.
Speaker 1: I mean, whatever issues Michael had, that was not the
Speaker 1: right case to bring against him. He was inno, he
Speaker 1: was found not guilty, and uh, you know I worked
Speaker 1: with his manager Francasio, and then when resolved Frank's case,
Speaker 1: they asked me to stay and work with Michael, and
Speaker 1: I did. In that case was yeah, I mean, it
Speaker 1: was sad because and he was ready under the you know,
Speaker 1: influence of doctor Murray at that point, and it was
Speaker 1: you know, you can see there was something missing.
Speaker 4: But I want to know what you learn from these cases,
Speaker 4: right because to me, I always say, it's got to
Speaker 4: be extremely difficult to be in this game nowadays with
Speaker 4: social media, because don't they tell jurors, hey, you're not
Speaker 4: supposed to watch television, you're not supposed to turn But
Speaker 4: how do you how do you not be on YouTube?
Speaker 4: How do you not be on your phone? How do
Speaker 4: you not see all of these things?
Speaker 1: You have to be on YouTube? I mean I opened
Speaker 1: my phone and there was the thing of our case,
Speaker 1: like you know, right there, Like on social media, comes
Speaker 1: at you. You don't have to go look for it
Speaker 1: comes at you. So I don't really know how that
Speaker 1: works anymore. You know, you have to trust that the
Speaker 1: jurors going to listen to the court's instructions, which are
Speaker 1: do not read about this case. If you see something,
Speaker 1: don't look at it, go past it. But human beings
Speaker 1: are human beings, right, I mean, the more you tell
Speaker 1: them not, the more they're gonna be what's out there,
Speaker 1: I'm going to look at it. So I don't believe
Speaker 1: that they are completely insulated from all the press and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I think at the end of the day, though,
Speaker 1: they do make those decisions on what they see it.
Speaker 1: I deal with that my summation by saying, look, you know,
Speaker 1: people who come in out of the courtroom and sit
Speaker 1: for ten minutes of testimony or the most important day
Speaker 1: or the summations. They don't know this case. You're the
Speaker 1: only ones who've sat here for four weeks, for every
Speaker 1: minute of every of the testimony, and you're the only
Speaker 1: ones who know all the facts. So whatever anyone else
Speaker 1: is saying, I think it's irrelevant. What matters is what
Speaker 1: you think you are. The judges are the facts in
Speaker 1: this case. You and you know I empower that jury
Speaker 1: and we did hear. What's crazy about this case though,
Speaker 1: is this this We're in downtown LA right in the
Speaker 1: court same floor as the OJ trial. We're the court
Speaker 1: across from it, right because this role of the high
Speaker 1: profile cases go there on the ninth floor the OJ trial.
Speaker 1: And again, very close friends with Johnny it was very
Speaker 1: He was my mentor. Bob Sappier was a dear friend
Speaker 1: of mine. They had eight black jewis Counttown Los Angeles, right, fine,
Speaker 1: fair we in our juris lection rocket case. I didn't
Speaker 1: get to say hello to a black joer. Wow, It's
Speaker 1: not like we didn't pick one. We didn't even get
Speaker 1: to say hello. Out of one hundred and six jurors
Speaker 1: that were brought in for the panel. Four were African
Speaker 1: America four and the first one was like number seventy,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't get to them unless like the first
Speaker 1: thirty jurors decided they weren't showing up or something.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: It was troubling to me, and Reverend Sharpton came out hard.
Speaker 1: He called me, he's like, Joe, am I reading this right?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Rev, you are. And you know, Reverend Sharpton
Speaker 1: came out put out a really harsh statement just to
Speaker 1: make sure that he got a fair trial. And so, look,
Speaker 1: I didn't and I'm not. I grew up in Brownsville, Brooklyn, Okay,
Speaker 1: I thought I was a light skinned black had grown up,
Speaker 1: so I didn't even know the difference. And I'd never
Speaker 1: judge people by the cold, only by the content of
Speaker 1: the character, right, And so for me, it doesn't really
Speaker 1: matter if I see good people. If I wanted smart
Speaker 1: and good people here, and I believe I got them,
Speaker 1: obviously we got them so so, but I believe I
Speaker 1: had them. So it wasn't so much we didn't have
Speaker 1: a black person. We need a black person. But I
Speaker 1: did tell this jury at the end at some point
Speaker 1: during that summation, I said that you represent the conscious
Speaker 1: of this community. You decide what's right and what's wrong,
Speaker 1: because you're going to send the message out. But you
Speaker 1: represent the entire community. And when I say the entire community,
Speaker 1: I mean the community. You're all from different parts of
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, right, And also you represent Compton and Englewood.
Speaker 1: I just said that to make sure, and and Rocky
Speaker 1: told me he was really moved by that because obviously
Speaker 1: that's a large African American population, Compton Englewood. And I
Speaker 1: said that, just remind the jury you're representing his peers. Also,
Speaker 1: you're supposed to have a jury of peers. It was like,
Speaker 1: you know, none representing. But but we were good. We
Speaker 1: were good because I just got jurwis who I mean?
Speaker 1: I had a rocket scientist on this jury. You understand,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that was a real thing. I thought,
Speaker 1: you say, I'm like, yo, you're no rocket scientist. I
Speaker 1: thought it was just a phrase. This woman was a
Speaker 1: rocket scientist. She was a scientist who built rockets, space ships.
Speaker 1: Like I said, you're really a rocket scientist. I was like,
Speaker 1: I want you just like so we had a rocket
Speaker 1: scientist on the show. We had a smart jury.
Speaker 6: We had a gun there was someone who worked in weapons.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a woman who was a pistol and truck.
Speaker 7: We thought that you weren't gonna want her on that case.
Speaker 7: A lot of people thought one thought that, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Love when people people think they know more than the Twitter.
Speaker 6: The Twitter, the twitter jury.
Speaker 7: We were breaking it down and we were like, there's
Speaker 7: no way that he's gonna want her on that case.
Speaker 7: But it's telling if he does or he doesn't want
Speaker 7: And when you welcomed her, I was like, Oh, he's
Speaker 7: so smart.
Speaker 1: I wanted her because the ballistics evidence actually worked in
Speaker 1: our favor in this case. One two that was a
Speaker 1: cruel defense.
Speaker 6: Jurney, Oh, I know.
Speaker 1: I also thought she would understand. And then she said
Speaker 1: one other thing during jury selection. You know I talked
Speaker 1: about right now. Rockey's intention was always testify, always, but
Speaker 1: we decided we had crippled their case so badly at
Speaker 1: the end that I didn't want to shift the focus
Speaker 1: of for Ralli's glorious train wreck to Rocky testimony, and
Speaker 1: we decided it wasn't worth him testify because he already
Speaker 1: had the witnesses. He was just going to corroborate or
Speaker 1: reaffirm what witnesses already testify too. And then that prosecutor
Speaker 1: be yelling at him for four days. You know, that's
Speaker 1: which I put on a witness for ten minutes, said
Speaker 1: he cross examiner for three and a half hours, screaming
Speaker 1: at him, which didn't go for well, I don't think,
Speaker 1: but the jury. But putting that aside, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to get away from Rally's testimony. I didn't want there
Speaker 1: to be too much time between the end the summations
Speaker 1: and his testimony. So we we didn't call Rocky, but
Speaker 1: we planned on it. But still, I asked the jurwors.
Speaker 1: I asked the Drewors. I said, do any of you
Speaker 1: have a problem if defend doesn't testify because you know
Speaker 1: the judge going to instruct you can't consider that. And
Speaker 1: that Durre, the pistol instructor, whose father was a criminal defensder,
Speaker 1: and he looked at me and said, I wouldn't testify
Speaker 1: as ours if I were a criminal defendant. There's no
Speaker 1: way I would testify. And I just remember that, thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: she gets it, she'd understand, she understands why that's important
Speaker 1: because most people say, now, why wouldn't he testify if
Speaker 1: I want to testify. It's not that simple.
Speaker 4: It's just not that celebrity help or her, And it's
Speaker 4: kind of a little layered question. But like you know,
Speaker 4: I asked the celebrity helper hurt in cases like this
Speaker 4: because I know when you're a juror, they'll ask you
Speaker 4: questions about Rocky.
Speaker 5: But did they ask the jurors about Rihanna?
Speaker 7: A lot?
Speaker 6: They did.
Speaker 4: Okay, I get stolen, might get stolen.
Speaker 6: Except Joe got people out here. Don't even.
Speaker 1: You know. They were obsessed with I loved it. I mean,
Speaker 1: they were just so obsessed with Rihanna. I didn't make
Speaker 1: a part of this case. She wasn't part of the case.
Speaker 1: The duid knows who Rihanna is. They know who she
Speaker 1: is compared to you know, in Religious Rocky. They saw
Speaker 1: her there every day, So I didn't need to inject
Speaker 1: her into the case to make it like we were
Speaker 1: playing on her celebrity status. Quite finally, think jurors, we're
Speaker 1: gonna acquit him because oh here's Rihanna, So let's be
Speaker 1: damn with the evidence. Let's just acquit him. But they
Speaker 1: were so obsessed with focusing on Rihanna. Oh, Rihanna. They
Speaker 1: don't you know, you have to treat everyone equally. It
Speaker 1: was because Rihanna's here. I was like, keep going, man,
Speaker 1: just keep going, keep reminding them that Rihanna's here, and
Speaker 1: talk about her. Because I did that, it would look
Speaker 1: like I was I was pandering. I don't think that
Speaker 1: mattered at all. I honestly don't. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: they looked at the evidence. I mean, look, if if
Speaker 1: Relly turned out to be a great witness and I
Speaker 1: couldn't destroy him like I did, I don't think. I
Speaker 1: don't think the jury would care that Rihanna was.
Speaker 7: Sitting there the first couple of days though, of the
Speaker 7: of it, she wasn't there. But then she came that Wednesday.
Speaker 7: I believe it was that Wednesday, right, Why did Why
Speaker 7: wasn't she there those first couple of days.
Speaker 1: I was the kids were in New York with her
Speaker 1: because the la fires are still going okay, and they're
Speaker 1: very protective and she's a mother, hen you know, she's
Speaker 1: really protecting those boys, and you know, the air quality
Speaker 1: was really bad that first week of that trial, and
Speaker 1: my eyes were like we woke out of court. I
Speaker 1: was staying downtown l a from so I had a
Speaker 1: two block walk to my hotel, and it was it
Speaker 1: was pretty bad. I mean the the you felt something,
Speaker 1: you smelled something, so I think it was an air
Speaker 1: quality issue. And she kept the boys away, and she
Speaker 1: doesn't go anywhere with those kids, so she wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: leave them in New York and come here. So but
Speaker 1: she you know, we knew this was gonna be a
Speaker 1: long trial, so she made it.
Speaker 7: What her name in the next baby? Oh, sorry, the
Speaker 7: name of the next baby after except Joe, except Joe.
Speaker 7: So that means we're not gonna get a Rihanna album
Speaker 7: because they about to have to make a baby.
Speaker 6: So it's all your song.
Speaker 1: Sorry, sorry, But Rocky's album's coming out soon, and that
Speaker 1: thing is fire. I mean I heard some songs on that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm you know, he does something. He's a
Speaker 1: little different, like he's not you know, but this next
Speaker 1: album is gonna be different than anything I've ever heard
Speaker 1: anyway around. You're gonna you're gonna be If I'm not
Speaker 1: the best man, there's a problem. I was gonna.
Speaker 3: I was gonna ask, you know, when you take a case,
Speaker 3: do you have to believe.
Speaker 1: The person to believe in the person.
Speaker 3: Okay, break that down.
Speaker 1: So look, I don't prejudge anyone. I'm not the judge
Speaker 1: during executioner. Right, I've represented people who have probably done
Speaker 1: what they've been accused of doing, but doesn't mean they're
Speaker 1: bad people and don't deserve representation. You know, if we
Speaker 1: all had our worst ten minutes of our lives captured
Speaker 1: on video or something like that, I don't think we'd
Speaker 1: all be happy. Right. If I love a person or
Speaker 1: I think they're really good people and they just made
Speaker 1: a mistake, I could deal with that. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to subborn perjury. I'm not going to make up a story,
Speaker 1: but I'll help them get through it, and that sometimes
Speaker 1: that means just mitigating the damage. Right. Sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: with Meek's case, for example, right meet, you know, when
Speaker 1: the crime, he led guilty to it, but this judge
Speaker 1: in Philly was obsessed with him and was had him
Speaker 1: under probation for over ten years. No one ever ever
Speaker 1: he was a kid, he was a teenager when his
Speaker 1: crime is committee. Ten years later, he's still in the probation.
Speaker 1: If he came to court White sox boom two more,
Speaker 1: yesprobation she wanted him under his thumb. She wanted him
Speaker 1: to make a record about her. It's like she was.
Speaker 1: It was an issue going on there. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: like we were saying Meek was innocent, innocent, but he
Speaker 1: served his his his you know, his sentence, and he
Speaker 1: was being abused by the system, and the district Courney
Speaker 1: came around and agreed with us, and eventually I got
Speaker 1: that dismissed. We resolved the case, and you know that
Speaker 1: judge was was relocated to a civil park.
Speaker 7: He was Did you did you know that make me
Speaker 7: a movement was going to be as big as it
Speaker 7: was when that because it got it grew so insanely.
Speaker 1: That was crazy. No, because what I first first, honestly,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't realize how big that was and
Speaker 1: how I loved that guy was, especially in Philly. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's like Rocky in Philly, right, And so I culture
Speaker 1: Reverend hal who I'm very close with, and and the
Speaker 1: Reverend I said, can you come to Philly with me
Speaker 1: and to visit him in jail and maybe you make
Speaker 1: us stand here, this judge is really giving them once over,
Speaker 1: and you know, I did I need you to help
Speaker 1: on this one, and Reverend said to me, one thing,
Speaker 1: is he a good guy? Joe? Am I getting embarrassors?
Speaker 1: See you good guys? No, no, Reverend, you will not
Speaker 1: get embarrassed here. It's worth it. He's a good guy.
Speaker 1: More important, he's getting he's getting run over by the system.
Speaker 1: And he has the wherewithal, He has a voice. You know.
Speaker 1: That means ninety people in that system in Philly don't
Speaker 1: have that voice, don't have the wherewithal. And again trampled on.
Speaker 1: And it's true. They reformed, you know, that whole probation
Speaker 1: system in Philadelphia because of Meek in our case put
Speaker 1: a spotlight on it, you know, So it was it was.
Speaker 1: It was an important case for a lot of reasons.
Speaker 5: How did you get your reputation?
Speaker 4: Like how did you become the person that people like
Speaker 4: Donald Trump and Daniel Snyder and Michael Jackson?
Speaker 5: How do you become that guy?
Speaker 1: You know? Results at the end of the day, it's results, right,
Speaker 1: I mean you had.
Speaker 5: To have a first big case that that put your name.
Speaker 1: As a prosecutor homicide in Brooklyn, you know, and I
Speaker 1: did well there, but then I left and you know
Speaker 1: I was doing well. My first case was a police
Speaker 1: corruption case and called the Morgue Boys. Those guys were cops,
Speaker 1: were alleged to have been robbing drug dealers in East
Speaker 1: New York and then splitting them up in the and
Speaker 1: then Morgue Factory.
Speaker 6: And that was why, just give me power, like the
Speaker 6: fifty go ahead.
Speaker 1: So anyway, that was my first on the front page
Speaker 1: New York Times. So I'm like a month out of
Speaker 1: the DA's office. I have nationally important case, you know,
Speaker 1: very important case. And I got my guy off, I
Speaker 1: got acquittal, and from there I went on some talk
Speaker 1: shows to talk about it, and then I started with
Speaker 1: that no, that's later morg Boys. This was like, you know,
Speaker 1: Michael Dowd was the main witness the Model Commission. That
Speaker 1: was like that's what we're talking about, like ninety early nineties.
Speaker 1: And then then you know, just sort of steamrolled from
Speaker 1: there a little bit. I started getting case at the case.
Speaker 1: I started representing a lot of cops first, and then
Speaker 1: rappers like Raquen came to me on a little thing. Foxy. Right,
Speaker 1: Foxy put out a great post yesterday or something like that,
Speaker 1: a picture of us. I looked like I was twelve
Speaker 1: years old in that picture. But Foxy was awesome. My god,
Speaker 1: who's I had all these like old school gangster rappers, right,
Speaker 1: sticky fingers, form onyx, you know, and and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And so I started getting to that world a little bit,
Speaker 1: just you know, and then working hard. And then you know,
Speaker 1: I had some good case. I had some good wins.
Speaker 1: People think I was gonna win these cases. And I
Speaker 1: started winning cases. And then Johnny came Cochrane, fresho off
Speaker 1: the heels of OJ right, so, and he looked me up.
Speaker 1: Someone said something about me, and he looked me up.
Speaker 1: He said I heard a lot of good things about you.
Speaker 1: I got a call from him and I'm like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: Johnny cockran sure. I didn't believe I didn't know him,
Speaker 1: and he said, could you meet me at my office.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I'm gon shit you off. So
Speaker 1: again I thought this was like a candy camera prankers.
Speaker 1: I went there and it was him, and he just like,
Speaker 1: I love your style, I love what you do. I've
Speaker 1: seen work, I've read your transcripts. You're gonna be a star,
Speaker 1: You're gonna be me. And I was like, really you
Speaker 1: think that? And I mean I was confident in myself.
Speaker 1: I you know, I had some good wins early on,
Speaker 1: and he just like just yes, let's let's let's hang
Speaker 1: together and let's do some things together. I'm like, okay.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, you know, Johnny cochrane
Speaker 1: and and it helped, it was it was a great
Speaker 1: thing for me. And I'm still young, Lauren. You know,
Speaker 1: He's then sent me some work and then just happens.
Speaker 1: You know, then once you win a big case and
Speaker 1: you know you're in the game, then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden just started just started that way. I got Foxy,
Speaker 1: you know, off of a few things. She had a
Speaker 1: little soul phone problem, kept slipping at of her hands,
Speaker 1: hitting people.
Speaker 4: And do you have a fear any retaliation because they
Speaker 4: know they described they described you as the most hated
Speaker 4: a lawyer in New York City because you take on
Speaker 4: a lot of controversial cases.
Speaker 1: That was I love that that they described it. It
Speaker 1: was one anonymous prosecutors asked, I kicked and I know
Speaker 1: the case. That was a quote to the New York Post,
Speaker 1: of course, the near Post and makes most hey, lor
Speaker 1: One person said that I'm sure a lot of people
Speaker 1: hate No, No, I don't give a crap. A lot
Speaker 1: of people hate me. I know, I could look myself
Speaker 1: in the mirror. I'm a hard charger. I don't look
Speaker 1: to make friends when I go into a courtroom. I
Speaker 1: look to defend the person I'm standing that stuff, and
Speaker 1: if it means I ruffle a few feathers, so be it.
Speaker 1: I really don't care. But you know, it's that controversial cases.
Speaker 1: Anyone who's charged with bad things, you know, needs a
Speaker 1: criminal defense start. I don't know if that makes it controversial,
Speaker 1: but yes, they're talking about the rape cops rape Cops case.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was that was the King of Marino case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was Marino, which I wanted no one to
Speaker 1: the could win because he was on a wire. She
Speaker 1: was wired and he acknowledged what they claim he did.
Speaker 5: And how do you want something like that?
Speaker 1: Well, I said, basically, he told her what she wanted
Speaker 1: to hear, calm her down. And I used science in
Speaker 1: that case. That case was a science case. That it
Speaker 1: was scientifically that was against this one with the rape
Speaker 1: and I believed it, by the way, just so you know,
Speaker 1: and and you know, we put on we put on
Speaker 1: scientific evidence and I had him testify and he describes
Speaker 1: his actions, the content that it wasn't all right. He
Speaker 1: did make misconflict like he you know, he was a
Speaker 1: recovering alcoholic. She was blackout drunk and he was trying
Speaker 1: to help her, and so he went back and to
Speaker 1: the apartment multiple times at night. But the jury believed him.
Speaker 1: And that jury was also another I picked smart juries
Speaker 1: when I need people to understand intricate defenses. I had five.
Speaker 1: I believe who's on that jury that was which people like,
Speaker 1: you're crazy. They most people think defense attorneys want the
Speaker 1: dumbest stories you could find. I don't. I want people
Speaker 1: to understand what the burdens are. The proof be unreasonable doubt.
Speaker 1: Thing is you know you don't. We don't walk around
Speaker 1: going hey, I don't know, did you prove that beyond
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt? To me? You don't do that in right life.
Speaker 1: But that's the highest standard of law allows. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, in a civil case, mere preponderance, I could
Speaker 1: bankrupt you, take your money, take your house on a
Speaker 1: fit fifty one forty nine percent verdict. That's preponderance, right, ponnously.
Speaker 1: That's criminal case. That doesn't mean anything. I could take
Speaker 1: your child away on clear and convincing evidence, right, that's
Speaker 1: the standard higher than ponderance. I could literally a parent
Speaker 1: could lose cost of a child on clear and convincing evidence.
Speaker 1: That is not enough to convince someone in this country.
Speaker 1: You have to go to the highest standard law permits,
Speaker 1: which is proofly on a reasonable doubt. And when I
Speaker 1: sort of make sure the Drew understands how high that is.
Speaker 1: It's not he probably committed the crime. It's not I
Speaker 1: think he committed the crime. It's not it's very likely
Speaker 1: he committed the crime. It's not I'm almost certain he
Speaker 1: committed the crime. It's I have no reason to doubt
Speaker 1: he committed the crime. That's a real high standard. And
Speaker 1: I have to make sure that Juri understands that, and
Speaker 1: then I list the reasons to doubt, so you know
Speaker 1: it's I take on these cases that I believe in.
Speaker 1: I've turned down a lot of cases, a lot of
Speaker 1: cases that could be lucrative or even very high profile.
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein was one. He'd try to hire me, and
Speaker 1: I wouldn't.
Speaker 5: Why why I.
Speaker 1: Told you that thing about having a bond with somebody
Speaker 1: feeling like, you know, people have been charged some horrific things.
Speaker 1: But I liked it. I could tell it was good
Speaker 1: inside of them more. I just had a good connection
Speaker 1: with them.
Speaker 5: You didn't feel that with him.
Speaker 1: They did not feel that with him.
Speaker 4: Let me ask you a question, good because that's interesting
Speaker 4: with the with the you represented Donald Trump in the
Speaker 4: storm Daniel's case. Was that ever? Was there ever even
Speaker 4: a chance of you winning that? And the reason I
Speaker 4: asked that is because it was politicized, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean?
Speaker 5: It was politicized. It was all over the media. Everybody
Speaker 5: knew it was a target on Trump, like they wanted
Speaker 5: to nail it.
Speaker 1: No doubt, that was not a case that would have
Speaker 1: been broader for anyone. And I mean that whether whatever
Speaker 1: your opinions are of Trump, I'm talking about the defendant.
Speaker 1: That case would never have been brought if we're not him.
Speaker 1: It was a case of first impression. Would think about it.
Speaker 1: It was a settlement of a a personal matter, right
Speaker 1: alleged you know, affair, consensual, nothing looking, but you know,
Speaker 1: she was basically trying to get money from him to
Speaker 1: keep it quiet. He paid her. Whether it happened didn't
Speaker 1: happen to irrelevant. He paid her some money. And of story,
Speaker 1: he didn't take a tax deduction on it, he didn't
Speaker 1: file it in his campaign thing. I mean, he paid
Speaker 1: personal money. Somehow they try and make that into a
Speaker 1: false filing in his own records. So because he put
Speaker 1: you know, payment, legal feest or whatever in his internal records,
Speaker 1: this attorney charge.
Speaker 3: I'd never understood how that was a charge.
Speaker 1: It's not, it's not. It wasn't and I don't think
Speaker 1: it would have held up in court. But you know,
Speaker 1: all the things that happened have happened. I actually didn't
Speaker 1: try that. I stepped out from representing man after that.
Speaker 1: I beat the rape charge for Gene Carroll. That's the
Speaker 1: one I was involved in the rape allegation, and we
Speaker 1: won that. He was then clipped with sexual conduct, sexual
Speaker 1: and the defamation of her. But and he look, here's
Speaker 1: the bottom line. He cannot win New York drury trial
Speaker 1: and just can never do it. It's just never happening,
Speaker 1: you know. So that's that's that's a different thing. That
Speaker 1: was a different thing altogether. You know, is there like.
Speaker 7: An ethics thing for your attorneys where like, because I'm
Speaker 7: just sitting here thinking, like you representing Trump, like people
Speaker 7: right now love everything about what you're doing because of
Speaker 7: a sat right, But I'm sure during you represented Trump,
Speaker 7: They probably thought you were like exactly something, and.
Speaker 1: Then the others loved me like it's like you know,
Speaker 1: when I represented Lelo Broncado, right, the Sopranos actor, the
Speaker 1: guy they he and some other guy were breaking in
Speaker 1: to get some drugs from a house. They were both addicts,
Speaker 1: that crazy atats. They were going into a house of
Speaker 1: a friend who used to give them drugs and he
Speaker 1: was very dead, so they drugs were breaking cop. As
Speaker 1: the neighbors sees it, the other guy shoots him dead.
Speaker 1: Lelo is not a gun. He didn't know what the
Speaker 1: guy's have gone. The other guy got life in prison
Speaker 1: and Leo went to trial the charge home murders try
Speaker 1: to murder, which is the same as murder. And we
Speaker 1: beat that, and we beat it because we had to
Speaker 1: present the case with Leo the fight, and you know,
Speaker 1: we proved that he did not know that this other
Speaker 1: guy are meant to had a gun. Now, you know,
Speaker 1: I just told you I represent all these cops in
Speaker 1: different cases, major cases, in case all these cases that
Speaker 1: day that mean Pat Lynch was like, you know, in
Speaker 1: the whole we almost had a fistfight, like so you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a chamileon I guess I'm representing who I represent
Speaker 1: that particular moment. When I represent Trump, A lot of
Speaker 1: people hate me for that I represent. When I represent
Speaker 1: someone like uh, you know, Rocky or Meek, other people
Speaker 1: hate me for that, right, And I don't care. I
Speaker 1: don't lose sleep. I have mirrors, as long as I
Speaker 1: could look at the mirror and I do the right thing,
Speaker 1: and I don't mess around like I you know, and again,
Speaker 1: as long as I'm comfortable, like with the with the
Speaker 1: with the Trump thing. I thought those cases I got
Speaker 1: involved in, I thought, absolutely, yes, I really did certain
Speaker 1: case I wouldn't get involved in.
Speaker 2: When you take a step back, right, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: people have asked you a million in one time, and
Speaker 2: you look at, for example, this Diddy case, would you
Speaker 2: do a lot of things different than his attorney's actually
Speaker 2: doing because it seems like they're already losing and it
Speaker 2: just it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: What would you do different?
Speaker 1: Well, uh, I wouldn't go out in the press and
Speaker 1: make pronouncements that are later disproved quickly because you sent
Speaker 1: the loose credibility. I mean, there's this whole thing, like
Speaker 1: the stupid baby oil thing, right, who cares first of all, right,
Speaker 1: but that became like this, this this battle line, and
Speaker 1: they went out and said, oh, you know, he just
Speaker 1: brought him in bulk at that Costco right down the
Speaker 1: block from his house. And that's that's why he has
Speaker 1: it so big, No big deal. But baby, First of all,
Speaker 1: it's a thousand bottles. Do buy a thousand bottle of
Speaker 1: right Roads in bold, but that was what he said,
Speaker 1: of course that. Then Costco then comes out with a statement, No,
Speaker 1: we've never sold baby lotion in our life.
Speaker 5: Jesus, we don't.
Speaker 1: Not one Costco ever sold baby loces. So boom, Now
Speaker 1: it looks like somebody's lying. Right, you don't need that.
Speaker 7: Kind of stuff on the Cassie video too, And they.
Speaker 6: Came out strong before the video dropped.
Speaker 3: That was before you charged.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now look, here's the thing with the Cassio video that's horrible,
Speaker 1: cringe worthy. Right, you don't do that. You don't put
Speaker 1: your hand on a woman. I don't care what the
Speaker 1: story is, just I wouldn't anyway, not how I grow right,
Speaker 1: But that's not that's not What does that have to
Speaker 1: do with these non consensual what they called freak off things?
Speaker 1: What did that video have to do with that though, right,
Speaker 1: and and I would say, well, and that's the one
Speaker 1: count of the trafficking. She's the one person in the
Speaker 1: trafficking count. Like, what does that video have to do? Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe you should be charged with domestic violence in state court,
Speaker 1: but what does that have to do with a non
Speaker 1: consentual freak off where people are being alleged to have
Speaker 1: non consensual you know, sex because they're drugged up and
Speaker 1: they're being gang raped or whatever. I don't see why
Speaker 1: that video was so of course, that video has been
Speaker 1: played and showed and people think like, oh, he's guilty.
Speaker 1: But he's guilty like assault of a woman who was
Speaker 1: his girlfriend. That doesn't make me guilty of everything else. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about the case. I was asked
Speaker 1: to take a look at the case. There's another case.
Speaker 1: I said, I would not be interested.
Speaker 3: I just want to the same same reason. Connection is
Speaker 3: it's different a little bit.
Speaker 1: I represent Rock Nation, a lot of people from Rock
Speaker 1: and very close with Jay and Desert Perez was most amazing,
Speaker 1: Like I love them, bomb up a boss love amazing.
Speaker 1: You know, Jay Brown, all those people are just like
Speaker 1: there really are special, special people and they you know,
Speaker 1: that's sort of family to me, and you know, I
Speaker 1: don't think they're they're sort of.
Speaker 3: Last question on that, do you think you.
Speaker 5: Should say that again? Please?
Speaker 1: I don't think they see repet Diddy.
Speaker 4: I just want to throw that out there, because you
Speaker 4: remember everybody was saying when Jay said they weren't friends,
Speaker 4: everybody was like they were in pictures together all the time.
Speaker 1: Everyone was a picture of Peat Diddy at one time
Speaker 1: or another, they went to a party. But when things
Speaker 1: got real years and years ago, you know, do.
Speaker 2: You think he should have got a bail? And do
Speaker 2: you think he didn't get a bail? Break that down
Speaker 2: because I said the same thing and people thought I
Speaker 2: was crazy?
Speaker 1: No, no, what what I mean? He was willing. First
Speaker 1: of all, it was no mistake I thought they made saying, oh,
Speaker 1: he'll have a ankle bracelet and stay in his.
Speaker 6: Mansion in Miami and monitor who comes in and the.
Speaker 1: Case in New York. Staying at a resort in Miami
Speaker 1: with a pool is not exactly really something I would
Speaker 1: offer up to the court. What I would have said, Remember,
Speaker 1: like I dk asked the French guy who was charged
Speaker 1: here with the rape of a maiden hotel because named
Speaker 1: Dominic cal Straan Dominic Strauss Khan his bail. He got bail.
Speaker 1: And the reason he got bail was he said, I'll
Speaker 1: rent the place here in New York, i will stay inside,
Speaker 1: I'll have I'll pay for security, I'll have a brace on.
Speaker 1: That's a concession. I think maybe if they had done
Speaker 1: that from the beginning, that may have been something that happened. Look,
Speaker 1: I don't you know, there's a presumption of innocence that
Speaker 1: we still have to not worth. You know, people have
Speaker 1: forgotten that in this country a lot. He is innocent
Speaker 1: right now. He did He's innocent, whatever you think of
Speaker 1: him or everything that you know, the evidence will be.
Speaker 1: No one's seen a minute of testimony. Yet he's presumed
Speaker 1: innocent until and unless the prosecution proves that case beyond
Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt. They may do it one day, but
Speaker 1: not today. And and you know, to get to keep
Speaker 1: someone in jail for a year awaiting trial, they have
Speaker 1: to either be a flight risk or a danger of
Speaker 1: community or or or they've done something so horrific like
Speaker 1: a murder. Right where you know, bail is not necessarily common.
Speaker 1: This is a case of having parties that got out
Speaker 1: of hand and there's allegations of you know, sexual misconduct.
Speaker 4: Okay, I just don't see how you, as an attorney
Speaker 4: it can do. Like when when the court of public
Speaker 4: opinion has already convicted somebody, which it seems like they
Speaker 4: have with that's got to make your job so difficult.
Speaker 5: How do you don't know?
Speaker 2: Because every jura turns on the news, it's all over
Speaker 2: on social media.
Speaker 6: And even with the.
Speaker 7: Video you mentioned, I feel like even though he's not
Speaker 7: I mean, he's not convicted of anything in relation to
Speaker 7: that video, but the picture that it paints, I don't
Speaker 7: see how an attorney wins after that, because.
Speaker 1: Well, you have to be smart. Look in the rape
Speaker 1: cops case for it. So I'll tell you an example
Speaker 1: of Rocky. Also in the rape cops case, these guys
Speaker 1: before trial were called rape cops, rape cops. We're picking
Speaker 1: a jury that called the rape cops case not a
Speaker 1: leed rape cops case, rape cops. I fronted with the
Speaker 1: jury said, you guys understand that they've been called rape
Speaker 1: cops for years before you heard a minute of testimony.
Speaker 1: They've been deemed rough committed crime. You guys should take
Speaker 1: a fetch to that, because we as a society. Don't
Speaker 1: want to be judged by the president deemed guilty before
Speaker 1: we've had a chance to have a due process of hearing.
Speaker 1: We then saw failing as a society if we do that. Look,
Speaker 1: a great example of my day, example not so much
Speaker 1: Monern anymore, but still relatively recent, is that Richard Jewel guy.
Speaker 1: Remember that guy from the Atlanta Olympics. They used they
Speaker 1: made a movie great, one of the best movies ever,
Speaker 1: called Jewel. But he was the heavy security guard, the bomber,
Speaker 1: they said, the Olympic bomber in the Atlanta Olympics. They
Speaker 1: said he was the guy with the fat guy who
Speaker 1: planted They said, planted a bomb and the Atlanta Olympics
Speaker 1: that went off, and they you know, they FBI was
Speaker 1: all over him. He was, you know, he was a
Speaker 1: sort of a sort of hapless guy. And the guy
Speaker 1: was a security guard and they say planted his bomb,
Speaker 1: and he was condemned and the world had convicted them.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact. You know, there was that
Speaker 1: Ted Kaczynski, the Montana bomb, the Union bomber. So they
Speaker 1: called this guy to make fun of the UNI blubber,
Speaker 1: and and it was basically they condemned him and they
Speaker 1: he there was a lawyer who touch his case and
Speaker 1: he didn't have any money, and some like you know
Speaker 1: lawyer who worked in social work services basically said well
Speaker 1: let me see, I don't know I help you. But
Speaker 1: he's started looking at it by little things in that
Speaker 1: up and the FBI was playing some games and it
Speaker 1: turned out this guy was stone cold innocent and he
Speaker 1: was actually a hero. He was actually trying to move
Speaker 1: the bag that blew up and people from next to it,
Speaker 1: and they thought he was going to plant it, and
Speaker 1: he was exonerated. He was totally one exonerated. But his
Speaker 1: life was over, Like how he had a year of
Speaker 1: being called a murderer, a bomber terrorist making fun of him,
Speaker 1: calling them the Uni blubber and the truth is never
Speaker 1: as loud as July, right, and then and then and
Speaker 1: then what happens He died of a heart attack like
Speaker 1: six months later, like he just was his heart was broken,
Speaker 1: his life was over, and it was really sad that
Speaker 1: they had a great movie called Jewel. It's called Jewel
Speaker 1: And if you know, you want to see how our
Speaker 1: system could really screw up a life, watch that movie.
Speaker 2: Do you feel do you feel like as a community.
Speaker 2: We don't do enough as far as Jeurry Judy is concerned.
Speaker 2: Like you talk about one hundred and seventy people and
Speaker 2: it was five. And I talked about this on the
Speaker 2: air a lot of times. It's effed up because we
Speaker 2: don't want to go to court, We don't want to
Speaker 2: spend that time. But then when we do something wrong
Speaker 2: or when we're on trial, we don't have our peers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, that's what some people told me. You know,
Speaker 1: they were like, I'm like, how could this be? I
Speaker 1: thought it was. I really thought it was a plant.
Speaker 1: Like I was like, they're setting this up. This is
Speaker 1: a setup. There's no way in downtown LA. You know,
Speaker 1: they moved. They were thinking about moving the OJ trial
Speaker 1: to Santa Monica to get it out of downtown LA
Speaker 1: because so there wouldn't be so many blacks, right, And
Speaker 1: the DA said, no, no, we don't want to give the
Speaker 1: appearances that were doing that. So because it was on
Speaker 1: the heels of Rodney King, so they kept in downtown
Speaker 1: LA and we had, you know, eight black juris when
Speaker 1: they filed in. I was like, I'm like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I was the blackest guy in the room aside from
Speaker 1: Rocky like me. So I'm like, what is going on here?
Speaker 1: And it was just it was odd. But so someone
Speaker 1: said to me, well, you know, someone's just go out
Speaker 1: the jury. Somethings go out. We can't force people to
Speaker 1: respond and show up, you know. So I'd say to
Speaker 1: the community, you gotta you gotta show up to represent
Speaker 1: because then then you know the day we need and
Speaker 1: we being this community, the day that that's needed to
Speaker 1: be represented. So you have a jury of your peers,
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't show up, you're you're failing
Speaker 1: each other. And I think that's important. That's a great
Speaker 1: point to JAF.
Speaker 7: I have one more Diddy question and did another asap question.
Speaker 7: So for Diddy, would you have advised him if you
Speaker 7: were if you were his attorney when Cassie first reached
Speaker 7: out to just achieve my god, just paid the money.
Speaker 1: Listen to That was the honestly, And I don't I
Speaker 1: hate they're talking to other attorneys because attorneys who do
Speaker 1: that and don't believe me. There were so many jealous
Speaker 1: people of me that I've heard people say, oh, he's
Speaker 1: not a good trial. Heer's not a goodness And all
Speaker 1: I do is win And then it was this last
Speaker 1: case on national TV so people could see me cross examine,
Speaker 1: see my five hours summation were like holy cow. But
Speaker 1: you know, there are haters out there and people who
Speaker 1: just say negative things to make themselves feel better because
Speaker 1: they don't have good self worth, right, And anyone talks
Speaker 1: negatively about other people publicly anyway, it's just because they
Speaker 1: feel bad about themselves. I truly believe that. That being said,
Speaker 1: I don't like the bad mouth of the lawyers, but
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna talk facts here. That strategy that was
Speaker 1: that was a legal trade wreck. What happened because this
Speaker 1: avoided avoided he had that case where with Cassie right,
Speaker 1: and it was all about a civil case. Civil there
Speaker 1: was no prosecutes involved, no FBI nothing. They wanted a
Speaker 1: settlement and you know, these lawyers said, you know, no,
Speaker 1: they'll close. No, but no, and they said, well, we're
Speaker 1: going to file a lawsuit if you don't give us
Speaker 1: a settlement, and like, you know, go ahead, then bad.
Speaker 5: Bad move, you know, especially knowing the tape exists and
Speaker 5: all that.
Speaker 7: Like that, I think they underestimated her, her voice, like
Speaker 7: what she was going to do, how people would consider.
Speaker 1: How people can respond looking at this day and age. Now,
Speaker 1: this day and age to cancel culture. My god, people
Speaker 1: get accused of anything, gone, You're gone, Like that's it.
Speaker 1: You don't even get a chance to defend yourself. Just
Speaker 1: the accusation is enough to cripple somebody and this career. Right,
Speaker 1: so that happens. He went from being on top of
Speaker 1: the hill. You know, whispers always about him whatever, But
Speaker 1: he went from be on top of the hill to
Speaker 1: boom like the pariah. No one wanted to even and
Speaker 1: they knew him. And look what happened. They filed that
Speaker 1: lawsuit and what do you get? You get red ink
Speaker 1: end of the world headlines, Right, did he rapist? But
Speaker 1: all this crazy stuff and what do they do? The worst?
Speaker 1: Once you let that happen, You now have to fight.
Speaker 1: You have to fight that suit. You have to. But
Speaker 1: instead the day after they filed it, they settled. And
Speaker 1: so what that was was in admission and then it
Speaker 1: opened up the floodgates. You notice what happened right after that,
Speaker 1: right woo everyone whoever met him, me too, I want
Speaker 1: the money to like he did to me. And there
Speaker 1: was twenty thirty forty. Then the FBI was like, wait, well,
Speaker 1: what all these women, so some of them will go
Speaker 1: into law enforcement, someone will go into civil attorneys. But
Speaker 1: it was an avalanche that came around him. And the
Speaker 1: only reason that it happened is because they didn't sell
Speaker 1: that case civily. Because if that Caste case was settled
Speaker 1: and went away, none would have heard anything nothing. There
Speaker 1: would no other people coming after the Diddy until that
Speaker 1: thing was filed. Right, So if you're going to settle,
Speaker 1: you settle before they filed the lawsuits. That's what you're
Speaker 1: settling for, to prevent that public damage, right, But you
Speaker 1: don't let them follow it. And then so the day
Speaker 1: later that's the worst of all worlds because then it's
Speaker 1: a mission and then bam.
Speaker 4: And you can't give him the benefit of the doubt
Speaker 4: because you know he lied us about Cassidy. Then the
Speaker 4: video comes out to it Now it's just like everything
Speaker 4: else you hear, you like, I don't know what's.
Speaker 1: True and was not true, And none of that would
Speaker 1: have happened if he settled, which is crazy. If you
Speaker 1: had to do it roll over again, you know, we'd
Speaker 1: give her one hundred million whatever, because what's his life worth?
Speaker 4: Because now I want to ask you something to I
Speaker 4: only got a couple more questions. You worked under Michael
Speaker 4: Jackson case. Is it true that Johnny Cochrane told Michael
Speaker 4: Jackson once don't settle if you don't settle with anybody,
Speaker 4: because when you settle, you become a pigyment.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 3: Do you feel that way for all cases?
Speaker 1: Not for all cases. I think each case is different, right,
Speaker 1: Look what Michael was different? If you Michael said the
Speaker 1: case somehow it was out there in the press, right,
Speaker 1: that was Michael was Michael. There's only one Michael Jackson, right,
Speaker 1: So I know Johnny did that to him, but he
Speaker 1: was right to say that to him. But not every case.
Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes the settlement is a good thing
Speaker 1: because it just not because you did it or because
Speaker 1: you want a mission. But just take Diddy as an example.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the settlement will save more money than you could
Speaker 1: ever imagined later and more heartache.
Speaker 5: But he actually did it.
Speaker 4: I'm talking about people who because I've seen cases where
Speaker 4: people would settle just because they don't want the bad
Speaker 4: press and they don't want to end up spending a
Speaker 4: whole bunch of money and court for the next four
Speaker 4: or five years.
Speaker 1: And I've represented some very very famous people without the
Speaker 1: case ever become public, that have settled because it's not
Speaker 1: worth it, just the allegation is not and they'll pay
Speaker 1: money even though they proclaim their innocence. But they're like,
Speaker 1: but yeah, but okay, so I met this person, so
Speaker 1: there is they can prove that they know me or
Speaker 1: met me. And now I have to then fight, like
Speaker 1: and and go after this. But yet all under the
Speaker 1: cloud of suspicion. And again in this day and age,
Speaker 1: when you're when you're accused of something, it's like you
Speaker 1: know your son are guilty, and if you challenge the accusation,
Speaker 1: you're victimizing the victim even though they're not a victim. Yet,
Speaker 1: Like that drives me crazy. You can't even defend yourself.
Speaker 1: So if someone accused me of sexual misconduct and I
Speaker 1: said she's a liar or she's made these false claims before,
Speaker 1: oh how you're victimizing the victim all over again, and
Speaker 1: did she become a victim that's the allegation. I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: I'm innocent. I'm gonna fight this, so I you know,
Speaker 1: but now if you defend yourself, you're you know, you're
Speaker 1: a pariah. So it's just it's yes. So people do
Speaker 1: settle all the time. It's called the nuisance, you know,
Speaker 1: just to make sure that they don't wind up from
Speaker 1: pigeon post DMZ and you know on the breakfast.
Speaker 5: Love and I got three more questions. You have one question?
Speaker 6: A question, right, Yeah, I have an a question.
Speaker 7: I just saw just now that he was named the
Speaker 7: first ever creative director of Rayband.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's Rocky.
Speaker 7: And I remember after the case happened, you talked about
Speaker 7: and you talked about it here like telling Gucci to
Speaker 7: hold off on the Gucci Guilty, which is an amazing
Speaker 7: cent and by the way, but telling him to hold off.
Speaker 7: And I just I think for me, when I heard
Speaker 7: you talk about that, and I'm seeing this now, I
Speaker 7: think about, even though he was proven innocent, were there
Speaker 7: people who walked away, Like in the midst of this.
Speaker 6: No, everybody's saying I feel all the.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was like on conference call of Comfort, Gucci, Puma,
Speaker 1: all these different brands who worked with Rocky who wanted
Speaker 1: to know what was going on, giving them up. They
Speaker 1: I would tell them, we're gonna win, We're gonna win,
Speaker 1: We're gonna win, but you gotta wait. Gucci Guilty was
Speaker 1: my biggest heart attack. The wolfings to be called the
Speaker 1: alone Gucci guilty, and they wanted to roll it out
Speaker 1: before Valentine's Dad. I'm like, that would have missed the
Speaker 1: middle of the trial. I'm gonna be summing up on
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day. Can you do me a favor and just
Speaker 1: wait another week? They're like, what's Valentine's I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't get They called Gucci not guilty. How about that?
Speaker 1: Put it a little not in there and then let
Speaker 1: it roll. But you can't call Gucci guilty. So what
Speaker 1: they did was recompromise. They put the ad out with
Speaker 1: Rocky in it holding the bottle cologne, and there was
Speaker 1: no Gucci guilty. It was just the Colonne and Rocky.
Speaker 1: But if you looked at the bottle to get real close,
Speaker 1: it would say Gucci guilty on the bottle. But they
Speaker 1: didn't put those big letters. Now there's all the big
Speaker 1: letters and now I don't care, right, So that was nuts.
Speaker 4: I got two more questions, did how good did it feel?
Speaker 4: Because that was what's the young lady's name that'd be
Speaker 4: doing this stuff? Megan was mean, Yeah, I saw you
Speaker 4: point at her and said you were wrong.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, if I think it came in talking about Rocky.
Speaker 9: Following us high Rocky and then one day, I mean,
Speaker 9: you sent me some messages that were pretty against the prosecution,
Speaker 9: very for Rocket, and one day whoop.
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened, but whoop. The defense is lying.
Speaker 1: He's gonna be found guilty. Who would believe him?
Speaker 6: I'm like, I think it was the prop gun thing.
Speaker 1: Nah, it was the prop gun thing. The proper gun
Speaker 1: thing was in the beginning, so it wasn't the proper
Speaker 1: First of all, if you're a journalist, be a journalist,
Speaker 1: you're not. If you're not, if you're gonna pretend to
Speaker 1: be a journalist and you're really not a journalists and
Speaker 1: do what you want, say what you want. No journalist
Speaker 1: says the defense is lying. They report the facts. It's
Speaker 1: for other people to determine. Right. So I guess she's
Speaker 1: not a journalist, but she's a blogger. Right.
Speaker 7: She's an attorney though, correct? Wasn't she an attorney at
Speaker 7: one point? I don't think that she was an.
Speaker 1: Attorney at one point? Wrong? I mean, listen, I don't
Speaker 1: have any personal feelings against her, but it was it
Speaker 1: was shocking to see her go from one to the other,
Speaker 1: and she's like, no one's gonna believe this defense. Well,
Speaker 1: guess what. And we had a three hour and look
Speaker 1: we had a four week trial. We had a vert
Speaker 1: in three hours. I knew that point we won. There's
Speaker 1: no doubt. It's not one hundred percent because you never
Speaker 1: know what a durid could do. But for twelve people
Speaker 1: that can beyond a reasonable doubt on that evidence, it
Speaker 1: was gonna take a long time to get everyone around
Speaker 1: what we found out from I spoke to three drawers personally,
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone spoke to one, and someone else spoke to one.
Speaker 1: The one Dury that was on video was there basically
Speaker 1: our worst drawer or the one who was against us
Speaker 1: that she believed it was she believed, she believed. But
Speaker 1: when they went to the drew room, ten people voted
Speaker 1: immediately within one minute to it quit. Wow, Okay, there's
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. Look, can we say, can anyone say it's
Speaker 1: definitely a prop gun? Of course not. Can anyone say
Speaker 1: it's definitely a real gun? Of course not. So that's
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt and that's not guilty though. That's it. But
Speaker 1: you know, she then came out, she was walked to
Speaker 1: the court and a three hour verdict. When you get
Speaker 1: a three hour vert it's the defense verdict ninety nine
Speaker 1: percent of the time, especially in a four week trial, right,
Speaker 1: because you can't come to the conclusion that he's guilt.
Speaker 1: You have to go really comb through the evidence. They
Speaker 1: asked for one exhibit in their notes, the defense video.
Speaker 1: That's it, the FNCH video. Five minutes later, we have
Speaker 1: a verdict. It didn't take a rocket science figure out
Speaker 1: where this was going. Right. So she's walking the court
Speaker 1: like doing a selfie video. If anyone thinks this is
Speaker 1: not guilty, they're crazy. Of course that it's guilty. They
Speaker 1: didn't believe the prop cunning, and it's gonna be a
Speaker 1: guilty very clearly. A quick video like this is death
Speaker 1: for the defense. Okay, she's talking about but I guess
Speaker 1: we're gonna say and or it's not guilty. And I
Speaker 1: killed in and I just looked at her. I said,
Speaker 1: you were wrong, you know, so whatever.
Speaker 7: By the way, I can't find any evidence that she
Speaker 7: was an interney. I tried to look it up. Yeah,
Speaker 7: I think it was.
Speaker 6: She worked for Long Cry.
Speaker 4: One of my favorite movies, Devil's Advocate, Keanu reeves you
Speaker 4: know al Pacino and you know in that movie, can
Speaker 4: resplayed the character named Kevin, and he's representing somebody.
Speaker 5: But in the midst of representing him, he realized, oh shit,
Speaker 5: this mobuck's guilt.
Speaker 4: Remember the child educated god hard while he was while
Speaker 4: a young girl was understanding testifying. Have you ever been
Speaker 4: in a situation like that, like in the mydst of it,
Speaker 4: you like, I mean I think this motherfucker actually did it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it wasn't this case. Oh look,
Speaker 1: I've tried one hundred and twenty jury trials and so
Speaker 1: again a chunk of those was a prosecutor. But there's
Speaker 1: been times where you know, I believe that since then
Speaker 1: I saw some evidence halfway through it was like, but
Speaker 1: you know, at that point, you're you're you're just fighting
Speaker 1: them all. Yeah. All you can do at that point
Speaker 1: is if they don't want to take it please, you
Speaker 1: could just challenge the evidence, which is constitutionally what you
Speaker 1: have to do. Right, someone could be guilty but also
Speaker 1: be entitled to a not guilty verdict, And that sounds
Speaker 1: weird to people, but the reason that's true is because
Speaker 1: if the proof isn't there, if the prosecution has then
Speaker 1: met their burden to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 1: The person's entitled to not guilty verd. The communities and
Speaker 1: towed tore not guilty verd. The system isn't tout thro're
Speaker 1: not guilty verdict it. You know, we're not a perfect system.
Speaker 1: But what you definitely don't want is we start cutting
Speaker 1: corners for people we know are guilty, because that's rick
Speaker 1: or jewel. That's what starts happening. Oh they're guilty, so
Speaker 1: we're you know, constitutional safeguards, we can cheat a little
Speaker 1: bit here and there. That's when innocent people start getting clipped.
Speaker 1: And that, to me is the worst thing that could
Speaker 1: ever happen. When I representing people who are purely innocent,
Speaker 1: that's the worst things for me because then I'm dealing
Speaker 1: with like a pressure that is just enormous, enormous, And
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't win that case, you feel
Speaker 1: as like burden for the rest of your life.
Speaker 5: Does it bother you more with the more of the burden?
Speaker 7: Does it?
Speaker 4: Like if you know somebody's guilty and still represent them
Speaker 4: and when that isn't that a burden too?
Speaker 6: Though?
Speaker 1: No? No, because that means it's system worked that means
Speaker 1: it's system worked. It means the proof wasn't there. As
Speaker 1: almost I'm not a borning perjury, which I would never
Speaker 1: do as long as I'm not making you know, somebody
Speaker 1: say something that's not true. If someone's guilty and I
Speaker 1: think they're guilty, but they were found not guilty, that
Speaker 1: means the proof wasn't there. The proof wasn't there, and
Speaker 1: we need that person be found not guilty because it
Speaker 1: keeps the system strong, keeps all of us safe, because
Speaker 1: if we start again lowering stands for the ones we
Speaker 1: know are guilty, that's when, really that's when innocent people
Speaker 1: start getting convicted, and that's bad. So I could live
Speaker 1: with that as long as the system was put to
Speaker 1: the test and I've done my job, then you know
Speaker 1: it's it's it's is what it is. The worst thing
Speaker 1: is if you've represent someone who's truly, truly innocent, you
Speaker 1: know that truly innocent, and they're being either framed, set up,
Speaker 1: or just for whatever reason, there's an agenda, and you
Speaker 1: know that's that's the stuff that you lose sleepover because
Speaker 1: God forbid that convicted. I mean, just like, how do
Speaker 1: you deal with that? Do you have that with you
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. So fortunately I've not
Speaker 1: had that happen. I've represent a lot of innocent, truly
Speaker 1: innocent people. They've all been vindicated, thank god, because if
Speaker 1: I had that happen, that would be that would be,
Speaker 1: you know, something that would be very tough to go
Speaker 1: on with.
Speaker 5: Absolutely do next, because do you take a break? Do
Speaker 5: you jump right back into a case?
Speaker 1: I gotta. I'm gonna have to go to my off sets,
Speaker 1: so I'm afraid to see what I want to find
Speaker 1: on my desk. I mean, been there for five weeks.
Speaker 7: Especially now, you don't like take a break like you gotta,
Speaker 7: you miss, No.
Speaker 1: That's the left for trial or I mean, look, will
Speaker 1: I take any downtime? Maybe a few days here or there,
Speaker 1: But I got there's a judge dying to get me
Speaker 1: on trial in Westchester County waiting for this case to
Speaker 1: be over, So so I know that's gonna happen soon.
Speaker 1: Trial in Arizona coming up. So it's you know, whatever
Speaker 1: it is, what it is. Yeah, try and take care
Speaker 1: of myself, keep myself in good shape, work out a
Speaker 1: lot well, and that gives me a little extra energy,
Speaker 1: you know, go forward.
Speaker 4: You need a documentary or something absolutely seriously with all
Speaker 4: the represented.
Speaker 5: Hey, Joe, good to meet you. Pray Yeah, absolutely, sir.
Speaker 2: Well, we we definitely gonna keep your number because if
Speaker 2: we see any cases that we don't understand, we might
Speaker 2: need all to break some things down.
Speaker 6: For some time. I called you before I got you
Speaker 6: on the phone.
Speaker 3: That's right, wells as Joe Joe tackle Pena. It's the
Speaker 3: Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that ass up in the
Speaker 3: morning for Breakfast Club.