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Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning.

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Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club Morning Everybody is DJ n V, Jess Hilarious,

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Speaker 2: Charlamagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club law Laosa

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Speaker 2: filling in for Jess. We got a special guest in

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Speaker 2: the building asaf Joe. He has represented on MJ Meek.

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Speaker 2: The Washington Commander is Donald Trump, Foxy Brown, Neo Swiss Beats,

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Speaker 2: and of course ASAP Rocky.

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Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, we have Attorney Joe Tacopina. Did I

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Speaker 3: say last day right?

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Speaker 1: It did perfect?

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Speaker 3: How are you feeling this morning?

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Speaker 1: Tired but really good, really good. Yeah. So it's uh,

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Speaker 1: it was a five week war, but I've never been happier.

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Speaker 1: I mean those two people. When I say those two people,

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Speaker 1: Rocky Ree Rihanna just such great people. I've gotten to

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Speaker 1: know them over three years, really well at babysat fore

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Speaker 1: of the Hid's one throwing her super Bowl performance. Wow,

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Speaker 1: they're just good people. They're really for real good people.

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Speaker 1: You know, you just listened a bunch of people I've represented.

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Speaker 1: Rocky stands out. Really that's a terrific guy. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Really, you know it's interesting now, people always when we

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Speaker 4: see these cases, they always wonder how the client is

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Speaker 4: doing right, like how is they sat? But I would

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Speaker 4: think it's just more mentally and emotionally draining for you

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Speaker 4: as an attorney.

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Speaker 1: You hit it man, I mean because look, obviously they

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Speaker 1: have the stress of the unknown, right, what's going to

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Speaker 1: happen when I'm on trial and whether it's Rocky or

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Speaker 1: some unknown client I represent. The days goes from you know,

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Speaker 1: nine in the morning in court till about four am.

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Speaker 1: You just work through. And it's when you have a

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Speaker 1: five week trial, you know, you're sleeping in an average

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Speaker 1: of ten hours a week. Wow, But you have to.

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Speaker 1: You have to. But it's fine because you go on adrenaline.

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Speaker 1: It's all adrenaline based because I can't go to sleep

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Speaker 1: thinking I'm leaving something out or missing one thing. And

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Speaker 1: then when I go to sleep, I sleep with one

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Speaker 1: I open and a pad next to my bed. But

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Speaker 1: it is it's you know, it's stressful. And then in

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Speaker 1: this case, in particular, where we had a prosecutor, it

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Speaker 1: was you know, off the rails. I mean it was

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Speaker 1: like one day every day was you know, a war

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Speaker 1: with him making you know, all sorts of problems and allegations,

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Speaker 1: and we got heated and it became very personal, so

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Speaker 1: you know, it was it was. It was a lot

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Speaker 1: for me, but of course, you know they suffer in

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Speaker 1: a different way because you know, one day we Rihanna

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Speaker 1: brought the babies to court and people thinking it was

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Speaker 1: a ploy, like some sort of maneuver to get the

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Speaker 1: joy to feel sympathy. Georgie's not feeling sympathy. They know

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Speaker 1: he has a wife and kids. It was more because

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Speaker 1: it was the last day of the trial and we

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Speaker 1: were summing up with doing summations, and the judge sid

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Speaker 1: we're going to write into Jory deliberations after that. At

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Speaker 1: least that was the plan. Didn't work out that way.

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Speaker 1: She worked the court because that could have been the

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Speaker 1: last time he'd seen his kids for a decade or more.

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Speaker 5: Wow that day, Wow, think about that.

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Speaker 1: That's why she brought them, and people that prosecutor made

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Speaker 1: a big deal of it in histormation, which I thought

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Speaker 1: was a fatal mistake quite frankly. But I do have to.

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Speaker 2: Ask, you know two things that you did that that

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Speaker 2: we loved up here. One, you know, we've seen criminal

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Speaker 2: attorneys a million one times, I've had Charlemagne had, but

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Speaker 2: with you, it seemed like we were talking about it

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Speaker 2: seems like you were fighting for your life too.

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Speaker 3: What gives you the passion?

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Speaker 2: Because it I mean looking at you, you were like it

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Speaker 2: was like we all going to jail, you know, So

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Speaker 2: what gave you the passion? Because, like I said, we

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Speaker 2: see other criminal attorneys and for some you could tell

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Speaker 2: when it's a check a check, and some we can

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Speaker 2: tell like, no, you this is your life. So what

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Speaker 2: gives you the passion when you have these cases?

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Speaker 1: I don't know any other way. Whether it's Rocky I

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Speaker 1: mean a Rod when I was representing, that's what you

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Speaker 1: said to the New York Times, he goes to treat

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Speaker 1: you like family. But I don't. I honestly, it's not

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Speaker 1: like I do it, you know for a tactic. It's

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Speaker 1: just I don't know any other way. When someone entrusts

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Speaker 1: you with their life and it's like their life. Okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe not the death penalty, but you know, their liberty

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Speaker 1: for twenty years, ten years whatever. I can't. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: look myself in the mirror if I didn't like, get

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Speaker 1: into that bunker with them and make it personal and

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Speaker 1: treat them like family, because then it you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not mailing anything in that way. I have to That's

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Speaker 1: why I don't sleep thuring trials, because I have to

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Speaker 1: look and make sure I'm not missing something. I want

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Speaker 1: to take get every tackle advantage I could get, and

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Speaker 1: in every case we always wind up ropeid doping the opponent.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we we blow stuff out on summation,

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Speaker 1: they're just like, oh, you know, like they weren't ready

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Speaker 1: for it. It happened in this case twelve times and

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Speaker 1: they were knocked on their heels. You know, we did

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Speaker 1: a five and a half hour summation I did from

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Speaker 1: that jury, and they were on the edge of their

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Speaker 1: seat for five and a half hours, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: you know you're connecting with them when that's happening. So

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Speaker 1: it's just it becomes personal. Mean, look, you just said

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Speaker 1: something v that was important because when I get to

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Speaker 1: the end of those summations and you know, these have

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Speaker 1: been put together over the course of my career. Johnny

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Speaker 1: Cochran was a mentor to me when he after the

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Speaker 1: OJ case, he came to New York. You know, we

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Speaker 1: opened up the firm here. He plucked me out out

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Speaker 1: of obscurity and basically took me under his wing for

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Speaker 1: three years, and Johnny and I worked together, you know,

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Speaker 1: we crafted summations, stuff like that, and I still use

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Speaker 1: some for material and I did it at the end

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Speaker 1: of this case. But one thing I do is when

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Speaker 1: I go to thank you know, let the dury know

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Speaker 1: that an honor for me to represent this individual, and

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Speaker 1: I thank the family. I turned around to look at

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Speaker 1: Rocky and then I saw Rihanna. I looked at her.

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Speaker 1: She's crying. Wow, she's a strong woman. Rina. I saw

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Speaker 1: her crying. It hit me like a ton of bricks.

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Speaker 1: I turned around, and you know, I had a I

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Speaker 1: couldn't speak for a second, and then my eyes welled

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Speaker 1: up and the jury is looking at me, and then

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Speaker 1: two of them started crying. When I see jewis crying

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Speaker 1: when I'm speaking to them during my stummation, I feel

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Speaker 1: pretty good. They weren't good. You know, you got it.

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Speaker 1: So that's why it's it's that's a good question. It's

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it's part of how I do it.

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Speaker 1: But it's not like a ploy, it's not a tactic.

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Speaker 1: It's how I really feel.

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Speaker 2: And what gave you the confidence that when they offered

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Speaker 2: you that deal, you said f that because the world

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Speaker 2: was like four, you don't only have to do six

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Speaker 2: months and three months in community service a.

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Speaker 4: Black man in America. First thing I said, I was like, man,

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Speaker 4: I take the I.

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Speaker 2: Was I'm thinking, I'm thinking, La, they're gonna let him

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Speaker 2: go in a day anyway, because the jails are overpopulated.

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Speaker 2: So what gave you the confidence and be like, I

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Speaker 2: mean obviously you guys won, but you weren't scanned, and

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Speaker 2: be like, well, maybe we should just take this deal.

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Speaker 5: And whose idea was it to not take the deal?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was Rocky and I had a one minute conversation,

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Speaker 1: literally one minute. Rock here's offer. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: do it too. What do you think, welcome, let's go?

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Speaker 6: Oh, I mean not that?

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Speaker 1: Can I say that?

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Speaker 3: Here? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So you didn't even think about it, like you we

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Speaker 1: thought about for a second and then but here it

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Speaker 1: required him to plead guilty of something I didn't do. Right,

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Speaker 1: required him to say, I'm guilty of a you know,

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Speaker 1: assault with a semi to mac weapon seven years suspended sentence, right,

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Speaker 1: which means he's under the thumb for seven years five

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Speaker 1: years probation. So if he crossed against the red they

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Speaker 1: could take him back. Yeah, it's six months, which means

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Speaker 1: three months. But it was a career ender for him.

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Speaker 5: Really, he'll lose deals and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Gucci was gone. I mean I've been dealing with Gucci

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Speaker 1: for two years on its Gucci Puma, you know, all

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Speaker 1: his shows. He couldn't travel out of the country with

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Speaker 1: felting convictions. It was a life changer for him. And

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Speaker 1: more importantly, he maintained his instance from the minute I

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Speaker 1: met him three years ago. Maintained his instance. So it

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Speaker 1: was it was a you know, it was really a

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Speaker 1: quick decision. Yeah, people like this guy has onions and

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Speaker 1: doing that kind of stuff, right, how do you do that?

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Speaker 1: But I also felt very confident I knew were gonna

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Speaker 1: win that.

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Speaker 7: At what point do you get so I know that

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Speaker 7: there's like discovery, so you get to see like what

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Speaker 7: the other side has, so that helps you like craft

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Speaker 7: your defense and stuff like that.

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Speaker 6: But at what point did.

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Speaker 7: You guys have everything? Like you knew everything upfront or

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Speaker 7: where things added as things were going, We're.

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Speaker 6: Like, if you ever got nervous.

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Speaker 3: Like hmmm, they're trying to oh what about this? We

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Speaker 3: forgot about this show about.

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Speaker 1: Picked the jury? You know, I mean they came with

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Speaker 1: a ballistics report that had been done a year and

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Speaker 1: a half ago, and they said, oh, we just found

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Speaker 1: this now we we missed it. So I'm like, you're

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Speaker 1: kidding me, right, and like that kind of those games

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Speaker 1: happened throughout the trial, but you know whatever, I'm used

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Speaker 1: to that kind of stuff and didn't face Look, I

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Speaker 1: knew we had a defense. My defense was to eviscerate

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Speaker 1: this asaparately, this this absolute pathological liar, and I eviscerate

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Speaker 1: him in a way that you know, I told this

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Speaker 1: jewiss that you guys had a firm room seat the

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Speaker 1: history because you just witnessed the worst witness in the

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Speaker 1: history of American jurisprudence. Jesus. I mean, he imploded like

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Speaker 1: and by the way, you know, I'm considered, you know,

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Speaker 1: top cross examiner anyone could you know you could cross

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Speaker 1: examine him. I mean, really it was that the guy

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Speaker 1: was was his home worst enemy.

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Speaker 8: Have you ever met a man that couldn't rat right?

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Speaker 8: He couldn't even rat rat right. He cursed in a

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Speaker 8: courtroom or a judge of jury. He cursed to the jury.

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Speaker 8: He told the jury, Yeah, I lied because I didn't

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Speaker 8: want to answer this guy's question.

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Speaker 1: He's annoying me.

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Speaker 5: He said, you're annoying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sorry, I don't mean to annoy you just

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Speaker 1: want you thirty million dollars and you want to just leave.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to answer questions like he shoot for

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Speaker 1: thirty million dollars with knuckle scrapes. This guy's a clown

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Speaker 1: and and he's a liar. He's a midliar. He's admitted perjurer.

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Speaker 1: He lied at least to this story twenty times and

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Speaker 1: was caught coming in perjury. I caught him in multiple

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Speaker 1: At one point toward listenation, I said, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: the next one's my favorite. This is a perjury mini

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Speaker 1: series because he lied. It was it was like this

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Speaker 1: series of lives about whether he shot a gun before

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Speaker 1: November sixth, twenty twenty one, the day of the incident.

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Speaker 1: And he said no, no, never I go. You sure never?

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Speaker 1: He goes, yeah, never, I go. What about a shooting rage?

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Speaker 1: Hot about the shooting edge? You sure it goes? Absolutely not?

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Speaker 5: Ago video?

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Speaker 1: I really gave him a shot igo, Absolutely, he goes,

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Speaker 1: You heard me like an a large It absolutely not? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Think video him and shooting at nine milimeters shell cases? Pop?

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Speaker 3: Was that on his Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, pulled it from I got it from his phone.

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Speaker 1: But I guess the prosecutors didn't want to go through

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Speaker 1: his phone like we did. See when I get discovery,

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Speaker 1: there is nothing I won't look at it.

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Speaker 6: Would they not go through their clients phone?

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Speaker 1: He took a video of himself from twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. I'm sorry, and I guess when he

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Speaker 1: turned over the phone, we got the phone also, as

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Speaker 1: we're entitled to. We did it dump. I mean I

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Speaker 1: brought to an agency that you know, I t company

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Speaker 1: that doesn't dump. And I looked at every phone call,

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Speaker 1: every message, and every picture and every video, and I

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Speaker 1: saw these There was like whoo, I got the metadata.

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Speaker 1: October nineteen, twenty twenty one. Okay, right before the incident,

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Speaker 1: he's shooting a nine millimeter with shellcasing, popping back over

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Speaker 1: his shoulder. Because don't get our theory was he placed

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Speaker 1: those shellcasings, and he lied about it, and then he

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Speaker 1: lied about the shellcase. Then he lied about where it was.

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Speaker 1: I said, well, where was that shooting range? He said,

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Speaker 1: we know, New Jersey somewhere not in California though, just

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Speaker 1: not in California. And the point of that was he

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Speaker 1: supposedly traveled back to New York. I started COBE nineteen.

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Speaker 1: It came back right before the November sixth incident for

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Speaker 1: complex not or something, and he was there, and apparently

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Speaker 1: the point of the prosecutor was like, well, he couldn't

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Speaker 1: fly back with shellcasings in his back. So even if

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Speaker 1: he shot, you know, in a shooting range in cober

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Speaker 1: A two weeks before the incident, he couldn't flown with

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Speaker 1: shellcasings and the commercial plane. We found out that the

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Speaker 1: shooting range was in Los Angeles, two blocks from the courthouse. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, where was the shooting range and he's like, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, and not in Los Angeles, non California.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, really, oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: Over the weekend we compared the video to I went

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Speaker 1: to have a shooting range of Los Angeles, saw the

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Speaker 1: same thing. I was like, got him. And then we

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Speaker 1: on Monday came back. He's like, oh, I checked my Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it was in Los Angeles. I forgot. I go, oh,

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Speaker 1: you checked your Instagram?

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Speaker 9: Huh.

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Speaker 1: Had nothing to do with the post that someone posted

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Speaker 1: one minute before he called the district turns offs to

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Speaker 1: say you know, because someone had outed him after I

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Speaker 1: went there and showed that it was the same shooting

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Speaker 1: range in Los Angeles. So he lied about shooting, He

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Speaker 1: lied about shooting nine millimeter, he lied about where he

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Speaker 1: shot the nine millimeter, and so it was just like

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Speaker 1: this series of lies. And then he lied about how

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Speaker 1: he found it out. He pretended he went back to

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Speaker 1: his phone just because he wanted to make sure he

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Speaker 1: did say things incorrect, and he found that and he

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Speaker 1: called the DA. It happed to be about one and

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Speaker 1: a half minute after he was tagged on a post

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Speaker 1: showing his video and the shooting engine. It was just anyway.

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Speaker 1: That's one example of about thirty where so I finally

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Speaker 1: said to the jury at the end of this, if

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Speaker 1: you can't trust this guy with a matter of importance

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Speaker 1: in your own life or a life of a love

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Speaker 1: on which you can never do and they only create

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Speaker 1: with that, you can't trust them with the matter of

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Speaker 1: importance in his life being a rocket. You just can't.

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Speaker 1: And if you take them out of the equation, there's

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Speaker 1: no proof that there was a shooting. There is none

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Speaker 1: that could be or it could be not, And that's

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Speaker 1: not proof. You unreasonable doubt and that was it. It

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Speaker 1: was a three hour.

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Speaker 4: Deliberation and the truth that he you said, you said

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Speaker 4: that you thought that he planted the showcases, the true

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Speaker 4: of the police searched the area, didn't find those show cases,

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Speaker 4: and all of a sudden he.

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Speaker 1: Came with stupid story. So he's claiming Rocky shot too,

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Speaker 1: pops them, and the Rockety did shoot too from a

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Speaker 1: prop gun, the start pest and the whole story as

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Speaker 1: to why he had that, But if he shot two

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Speaker 1: shots from a real nine millimeter ten minutes, the seven

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Speaker 1: cops came within ten minutes with search lights. Those flashlights,

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Speaker 1: they have bodycam. Thank god, they searched the exact spot

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Speaker 1: where the sincident happened. Seven cops twenty minutes, that's one

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Speaker 1: hundred and forty minutes of manpower, and they're looking. They

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Speaker 1: find nothing, nothing, no evidence of a shooting, no broken

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Speaker 1: there's a parking lot right next to it, no cars

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Speaker 1: that were doing nothing. He claims it comes back now

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Speaker 1: and forty five minutes later, goes to the exact same

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Speaker 1: spot the cops were searching, bends down and finds the

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Speaker 1: two shell cases.

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Speaker 7: I mean, so what happens now? Because I know you

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Speaker 7: mentioned when you walked out the court, like you want

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Speaker 7: them to pursue him for perjury charges.

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Speaker 1: I want them to. They should. I mean the District

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Speaker 1: Attorney's office was and should be embarrassed by this guy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he absolutely played them like a fiddle. We

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Speaker 1: had a tape which he first, by the way, a

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Speaker 1: tape of him and one of a mutual friend of

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Speaker 1: Rocky Unrellies. And he said that there was a there

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Speaker 1: was a recording, and he's and when he heard the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the recording he realized what that was. He

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, that's fake. Get that away from It's fake.

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Speaker 1: It's not my voice. It's it's it's Ai. It's like,

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Speaker 1: that's fake, it's Ai. So then I had to call

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Speaker 1: the poor guy who made the recording in Wally. Wally say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's from Paris. It was in Paris's so that's my voice,

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Speaker 1: that's really's voice. He said this stuff. I know nothing

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Speaker 1: about this case, but yes, I'm here authenticated tape. And

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Speaker 1: on the tape, what really is saying is if he

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Speaker 1: gives me thirty million, I'll disappear to an island and

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Speaker 1: they'll never find me. The DA can never find me,

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Speaker 1: and they can't prosecute their case. You know. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, and this is his example, not mine. It's

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Speaker 1: like you know, when you when you smack your bitch

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Speaker 1: and she files charged against you, if she doesn't show up,

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Speaker 1: the case is way weaker than That's what. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that's his that's like where his mind goes to. But

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Speaker 1: his thought was I'm gonna disappear to an island. The

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Speaker 1: day will never find me. So I stood behind the

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Speaker 1: two disc attorneys. I was like, so they'll never find

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Speaker 1: him like this, and they're just saying they're like sleeking

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Speaker 1: down in their chairs. I'm like, he tried to sell

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Speaker 1: his criminal case for thirty million dollars. That's called extortion, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so he should be prosecuted for extortion. He admitted perjury.

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Speaker 1: He was caught other times committing perjury when he did

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Speaker 1: admit it. I mean, this guy's a one man crime

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Speaker 1: spree on the witness stand alone who.

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Speaker 5: Follow charges against him.

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Speaker 7: You to say, because you told me that, you guys

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Speaker 7: have begin putting together transcripts and stuff like, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Put to the transcripts we're going to present. You know,

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Speaker 1: we have this video fortunate instingcents on TV. So we

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Speaker 1: also have video. We're going to bring this to the

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Speaker 1: district Attorney's office. I'm sure they'll looking for a minute

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Speaker 1: and a half and disregarded. You know, they went after

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Speaker 1: Rocky like you know he was I don't know, Dillinger,

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Speaker 1: Pablo Escobar. I mean, they got a guy who's who's

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Speaker 1: not only admitted to crimes on the stand, they got

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Speaker 1: caught red handed committing extortion, light about it and tried

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Speaker 1: to sell the case. Now that is to me a

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Speaker 1: perversion of justice. And if you're the district attorney and

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Speaker 1: you have somebody trying to sell your criminal case for

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Speaker 1: thirty million dollars, I'd be mad as hell. I mean

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Speaker 1: I used to be a prosecutor. I would go after

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Speaker 1: him with everything I had. But you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: predict that will.

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Speaker 2: But what about the prosecutor because in this case, right

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Speaker 2: you look at at asap the prosecutor obviously, well yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's that's actually what is monster's water. The prosecutor, I

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Speaker 2: guess didn't do their homework right out a little bit. Right,

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Speaker 2: So now I'm paying. I have to pay for my attorney.

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Speaker 2: I have to pay for everything that they did for me,

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Speaker 2: and they have no consequence at all.

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Speaker 3: You can't sue the district attorney. Nothing is just you

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Speaker 3: just got to eat that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you do. It's they have sort of

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Speaker 1: this governmental community when they bring charges. As soon as

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Speaker 1: have a good faith basis to bring them, you really can't.

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Speaker 1: The good faith basis is. They have a video of

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Speaker 1: Rocky holding one appears to be gone, and they have

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Speaker 1: another video where, well, it's grainy, you do here in

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Speaker 1: nest cret cam to Pops Pop Pop so, and he

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Speaker 1: had a witness swearing despite the fact that he's he's

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Speaker 1: his tongue is a stranger to the truth. He did swear,

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Speaker 1: and so that's enough to isolate them from from civil damages.

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Speaker 4: I don't understand the prop gun thing though. I was like,

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Speaker 4: why would he be having a prop gun for safety?

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Speaker 5: Like that's just.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's actually what happened. But here's why, Rocky.

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Speaker 1: This is twenty twenty one, right, so he was still

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Speaker 1: you know, he had n't He was successful, but he

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Speaker 1: wasn't like rolling in crazy though, So he was successful.

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Speaker 1: He didn't use full time security twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 1: He does now after this, he does since that day.

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Speaker 1: What happened was he did DMV video in July twenty

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Speaker 1: one that actually came out the year later with Rihanna,

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Speaker 1: and in that video there was tons of prop guns

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Speaker 1: and that there were a lot of videos that you

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Speaker 1: have those things right. And so he had just recently

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Speaker 1: gotten slashed in the face in a bar. He was jumped.

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Speaker 1: He has a slash scarface right now. He has that

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Speaker 1: He had a stalker current at that time. In July

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one, he had a stalker active. Stalker

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Speaker 1: actually broke to his house. He had home invasions. He

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Speaker 1: was licensed to posess guns in the home, but not

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Speaker 1: to carry his security detail. And his manager Lou Levin

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Speaker 1: asap Blu, who was just a great guy in great witness,

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Speaker 1: said you have to if you're not going to use

404
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Speaker 1: this full time. You can't carry a gun, but you

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Speaker 1: should least carry a prop We can make it look

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Speaker 1: like a real gun, just to deter people in case

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Speaker 1: someone's coming up to you rolling up and you can

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Speaker 1: take it out. Rocky said, sure. Find So they took

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Speaker 1: this little block which was really small. He put it

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Speaker 1: in your pocketbook. Was a rock prop gun. From the video,

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Speaker 1: you can see it's in the video. They put an

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Speaker 1: extended magazine on it, a little bell clip to make

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Speaker 1: it look more intimidating. So that's what Rocky carried when

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Speaker 1: he didn't have security, And we had two witnesses testify that,

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Speaker 1: and you know, his inn circle knew that. So he

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Speaker 1: used it because he couldn't carry a real gun. First

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Speaker 1: of all, too, he didn't want to carry a real

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Speaker 1: gun because God forbid he has to use it. Then

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Speaker 1: you got to really answer some stuff. But so that's

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Speaker 1: why he carried it. You know, I know people like

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00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 1: that sounds like BS prop gun proper. But what sounds

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Speaker 1: like more BS is that he had a real gun

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Speaker 1: fired off two nine millimeters shots. No shell case were

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Speaker 1: found by the police, No damage was done anywhere in

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Speaker 1: one of the shots in that grainy video, and ast

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Speaker 1: Bills and this rally were an inch away from like

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Speaker 1: you and I, charl they aren't even as close as

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Speaker 1: they were, and he shoots someone's dying, someone's dying. No

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Speaker 1: one got hit. I mean, it's it was obvious that

430
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 1: that was not a real gun. Otherwise you would have

431
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 1: seen things that you would receive. As a matter of fact,

432
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,160
Speaker 1: the cops on the body camp said, doesn't affect there's

433
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 1: any evidence of a shooting here. You know, it was

434
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: inches away from where the computers are, there, where the

435
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,200
Speaker 1: screens are. There was a parking lot with cars. It

436
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 1: was a pay for parking lot. You know, you shoot

437
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,920
Speaker 1: a gun, a window is going to break, Something's gonna happen.

438
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 1: There was nothing. They searched every car, So I think

439
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 1: there's while I get While the prop gun thing is

440
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 1: hard for some people to grasp, there's certainly way less

441
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 1: evidence that it was real gun than a prop gun.

442
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 1: And that's the bottom lie.

443
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 7: What about this civil suit that Wally file whenever I'm

444
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,480
Speaker 7: not I'm sorry, I rally filed when everything first started moving.

445
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 7: It was it's a defamation suit against Rock.

446
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 1: No, it's assault Rocky, defamation shooting against you.

447
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 7: Yes, she had two of them. So do you guys,

448
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 7: are you now want to submit to like file for dismissal.

449
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 1: Look, you know that case is running its course. I'm

450
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 1: dealing with it on my own, with Rocky Rock as

451
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: his sole case. I mean, that thing is on life

452
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 1: support now. Obviously, I can't imagine this guy ever want

453
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 1: to get back on a witness stand again. You know,

454
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 1: he he can't withstand it. I mean, he was again

455
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,959
Speaker 1: a horrible witness. Even you know there are people inside

456
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 1: that courtroom, you know who are there, who are part

457
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: of this process, who said, how do they proceed with

458
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: this guy? And they did? You know, but we had

459
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 1: a prosecutor who was hel bent on winning, not doing justice,

460
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,760
Speaker 1: help bent on winning. And when you have that, it's

461
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: a dangerous thing because you know they have the weight

462
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 1: of law enforcement behind them, and and you know, prosecute's

463
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 1: job and I used to be one, it's not solely

464
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 1: to just secure a conviction, just to make sure you're

465
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 1: doing right. And when a witness continually lies on a

466
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,360
Speaker 1: witness stand and purchase himself and you know that they are,

467
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 1: you know sometimes okay, to take a step back and reevaluate.

468
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 2: In your opinion, is because he was he's a celebrity

469
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 2: that that prosecutor probably thought this was his case.

470
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 3: This was the one that's gonnaut him on the map.

471
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: Look if this would look This prosecutor has quite a history.

472
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: Let's put it that way. He was the Durst prosecutor. Okay,

473
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 1: so he was then sideline a bench for some miscandas

474
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: that apparently had committed. And we're going to the Drst case.

475
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: I don't need to get into it now. Yep. It

476
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: was just like coming back party, like this was his

477
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,880
Speaker 1: first big trial since Thirst after the Old Day put

478
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 1: him to some administrative part right, so he took this

479
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: over like this was his chance to come back, high

480
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 1: profile case on TV. He wanted to you know, this

481
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 1: was his coming back party, and you know he got schooled.

482
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: He got schooled and got put back in his little

483
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: corner because he was and he was nasty. I gotta

484
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: be honest with you. I don't like saying that I've

485
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 1: again one hundred and twenty jury trials I've had, and

486
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 1: I've gone ahead toward with opponents, with adversaries who have

487
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: been hard charged like me. I could respect that. We

488
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: don't have to like each other, but we could respect

489
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: each other and not make it personal. This guy was

490
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 1: off the rails. But then I spoke to other lawyers.

491
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: David Chesnoff who tried I was a great lawyer from

492
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: Las Vegas who tried the Dirst case. He said he

493
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 1: almost went the blows with him, which you know, we

494
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: came close a few times too.

495
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 3: I got right in my face, Brooklyn came out that

496
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 3: Brooklyn was out.

497
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 1: It doesn't ever go away. But when this guy got

498
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: into my face, I looked him. I said, you're gonna

499
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 1: get hurt. You're making a mistake. I need to back

500
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: up man real quick. And and you.

501
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 5: Know, whatever did you did you have that coat before

502
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 5: after the case?

503
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: I had this before freezing outside? Okay barely?

504
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 3: She asked about before and that's what?

505
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, in center barber.

506
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 5: Wow, how was that?

507
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: That was crazy too? That was really crazy. Mesro was

508
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: the lead lawyer in that case when I was younger,

509
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: but it was it was a nutty case. And that

510
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: was you know, that was another sort of travesty of justice.

511
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: I mean, whatever issues Michael had, that was not the

512
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 1: right case to bring against him. He was inno, he

513
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 1: was found not guilty, and uh, you know I worked

514
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 1: with his manager Francasio, and then when resolved Frank's case,

515
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: they asked me to stay and work with Michael, and

516
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: I did. In that case was yeah, I mean, it

517
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 1: was sad because and he was ready under the you know,

518
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: influence of doctor Murray at that point, and it was

519
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: you know, you can see there was something missing.

520
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 4: But I want to know what you learn from these cases,

521
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 4: right because to me, I always say, it's got to

522
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 4: be extremely difficult to be in this game nowadays with

523
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 4: social media, because don't they tell jurors, hey, you're not

524
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 4: supposed to watch television, you're not supposed to turn But

525
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,959
Speaker 4: how do you how do you not be on YouTube?

526
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 4: How do you not be on your phone? How do

527
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 4: you not see all of these things?

528
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 1: You have to be on YouTube? I mean I opened

529
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: my phone and there was the thing of our case,

530
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: like you know, right there, Like on social media, comes

531
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: at you. You don't have to go look for it

532
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: comes at you. So I don't really know how that

533
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: works anymore. You know, you have to trust that the

534
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: jurors going to listen to the court's instructions, which are

535
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: do not read about this case. If you see something,

536
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: don't look at it, go past it. But human beings

537
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: are human beings, right, I mean, the more you tell

538
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: them not, the more they're gonna be what's out there,

539
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to look at it. So I don't believe

540
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: that they are completely insulated from all the press and

541
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I think at the end of the day, though,

542
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: they do make those decisions on what they see it.

543
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: I deal with that my summation by saying, look, you know,

544
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: people who come in out of the courtroom and sit

545
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: for ten minutes of testimony or the most important day

546
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: or the summations. They don't know this case. You're the

547
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: only ones who've sat here for four weeks, for every

548
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: minute of every of the testimony, and you're the only

549
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: ones who know all the facts. So whatever anyone else

550
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 1: is saying, I think it's irrelevant. What matters is what

551
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: you think you are. The judges are the facts in

552
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: this case. You and you know I empower that jury

553
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: and we did hear. What's crazy about this case though,

554
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: is this this We're in downtown LA right in the

555
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: court same floor as the OJ trial. We're the court

556
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: across from it, right because this role of the high

557
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: profile cases go there on the ninth floor the OJ trial.

558
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 1: And again, very close friends with Johnny it was very

559
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: He was my mentor. Bob Sappier was a dear friend

560
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: of mine. They had eight black jewis Counttown Los Angeles, right, fine,

561
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: fair we in our juris lection rocket case. I didn't

562
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: get to say hello to a black joer. Wow, It's

563
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: not like we didn't pick one. We didn't even get

564
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: to say hello. Out of one hundred and six jurors

565
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: that were brought in for the panel. Four were African

566
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: America four and the first one was like number seventy,

567
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: so I couldn't get to them unless like the first

568
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: thirty jurors decided they weren't showing up or something.

569
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 3: It was.

570
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: It was troubling to me, and Reverend Sharpton came out hard.

571
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: He called me, he's like, Joe, am I reading this right?

572
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Rev, you are. And you know, Reverend Sharpton

573
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: came out put out a really harsh statement just to

574
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: make sure that he got a fair trial. And so, look,

575
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: I didn't and I'm not. I grew up in Brownsville, Brooklyn, Okay,

576
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: I thought I was a light skinned black had grown up,

577
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: so I didn't even know the difference. And I'd never

578
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: judge people by the cold, only by the content of

579
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: the character, right, And so for me, it doesn't really

580
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: matter if I see good people. If I wanted smart

581
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,239
Speaker 1: and good people here, and I believe I got them,

582
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: obviously we got them so so, but I believe I

583
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: had them. So it wasn't so much we didn't have

584
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: a black person. We need a black person. But I

585
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: did tell this jury at the end at some point

586
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: during that summation, I said that you represent the conscious

587
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: of this community. You decide what's right and what's wrong,

588
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: because you're going to send the message out. But you

589
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: represent the entire community. And when I say the entire community,

590
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: I mean the community. You're all from different parts of

591
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, right, And also you represent Compton and Englewood.

592
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: I just said that to make sure, and and Rocky

593
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: told me he was really moved by that because obviously

594
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: that's a large African American population, Compton Englewood. And I

595
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: said that, just remind the jury you're representing his peers. Also,

596
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: you're supposed to have a jury of peers. It was like,

597
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: you know, none representing. But but we were good. We

598
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: were good because I just got jurwis who I mean?

599
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 1: I had a rocket scientist on this jury. You understand,

600
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that was a real thing. I thought,

601
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: you say, I'm like, yo, you're no rocket scientist. I

602
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: thought it was just a phrase. This woman was a

603
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: rocket scientist. She was a scientist who built rockets, space ships.

604
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: Like I said, you're really a rocket scientist. I was like,

605
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: I want you just like so we had a rocket

606
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: scientist on the show. We had a smart jury.

607
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 6: We had a gun there was someone who worked in weapons.

608
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a woman who was a pistol and truck.

609
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 7: We thought that you weren't gonna want her on that case.

610
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 7: A lot of people thought one thought that, Yeah, I.

611
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: Love when people people think they know more than the Twitter.

612
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 6: The Twitter, the twitter jury.

613
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 7: We were breaking it down and we were like, there's

614
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 7: no way that he's gonna want her on that case.

615
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 7: But it's telling if he does or he doesn't want

616
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 7: And when you welcomed her, I was like, Oh, he's

617
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 7: so smart.

618
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: I wanted her because the ballistics evidence actually worked in

619
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: our favor in this case. One two that was a

620
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: cruel defense.

621
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 6: Jurney, Oh, I know.

622
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: I also thought she would understand. And then she said

623
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: one other thing during jury selection. You know I talked

624
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: about right now. Rockey's intention was always testify, always, but

625
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: we decided we had crippled their case so badly at

626
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: the end that I didn't want to shift the focus

627
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: of for Ralli's glorious train wreck to Rocky testimony, and

628
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: we decided it wasn't worth him testify because he already

629
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: had the witnesses. He was just going to corroborate or

630
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: reaffirm what witnesses already testify too. And then that prosecutor

631
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: be yelling at him for four days. You know, that's

632
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: which I put on a witness for ten minutes, said

633
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: he cross examiner for three and a half hours, screaming

634
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: at him, which didn't go for well, I don't think,

635
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: but the jury. But putting that aside, I didn't want

636
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: to get away from Rally's testimony. I didn't want there

637
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: to be too much time between the end the summations

638
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: and his testimony. So we we didn't call Rocky, but

639
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: we planned on it. But still, I asked the jurwors.

640
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: I asked the Drewors. I said, do any of you

641
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: have a problem if defend doesn't testify because you know

642
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,719
Speaker 1: the judge going to instruct you can't consider that. And

643
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: that Durre, the pistol instructor, whose father was a criminal defensder,

644
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: and he looked at me and said, I wouldn't testify

645
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: as ours if I were a criminal defendant. There's no

646
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: way I would testify. And I just remember that, thinking, Okay,

647
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: she gets it, she'd understand, she understands why that's important

648
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: because most people say, now, why wouldn't he testify if

649
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: I want to testify. It's not that simple.

650
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 4: It's just not that celebrity help or her, And it's

651
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 4: kind of a little layered question. But like you know,

652
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 4: I asked the celebrity helper hurt in cases like this

653
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 4: because I know when you're a juror, they'll ask you

654
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 4: questions about Rocky.

655
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 5: But did they ask the jurors about Rihanna?

656
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 7: A lot?

657
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 6: They did.

658
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 4: Okay, I get stolen, might get stolen.

659
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 6: Except Joe got people out here. Don't even.

660
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: You know. They were obsessed with I loved it. I mean,

661
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: they were just so obsessed with Rihanna. I didn't make

662
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: a part of this case. She wasn't part of the case.

663
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: The duid knows who Rihanna is. They know who she

664
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: is compared to you know, in Religious Rocky. They saw

665
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: her there every day, So I didn't need to inject

666
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: her into the case to make it like we were

667
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: playing on her celebrity status. Quite finally, think jurors, we're

668
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: gonna acquit him because oh here's Rihanna, So let's be

669
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: damn with the evidence. Let's just acquit him. But they

670
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: were so obsessed with focusing on Rihanna. Oh, Rihanna. They

671
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: don't you know, you have to treat everyone equally. It

672
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: was because Rihanna's here. I was like, keep going, man,

673
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: just keep going, keep reminding them that Rihanna's here, and

674
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: talk about her. Because I did that, it would look

675
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: like I was I was pandering. I don't think that

676
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: mattered at all. I honestly don't. I mean, I think

677
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: they looked at the evidence. I mean, look, if if

678
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: Relly turned out to be a great witness and I

679
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: couldn't destroy him like I did, I don't think. I

680
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: don't think the jury would care that Rihanna was.

681
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 7: Sitting there the first couple of days though, of the

682
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 7: of it, she wasn't there. But then she came that Wednesday.

683
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 7: I believe it was that Wednesday, right, Why did Why

684
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 7: wasn't she there those first couple of days.

685
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 1: I was the kids were in New York with her

686
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: because the la fires are still going okay, and they're

687
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: very protective and she's a mother, hen you know, she's

688
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: really protecting those boys, and you know, the air quality

689
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: was really bad that first week of that trial, and

690
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 1: my eyes were like we woke out of court. I

691
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: was staying downtown l a from so I had a

692
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: two block walk to my hotel, and it was it

693
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: was pretty bad. I mean the the you felt something,

694
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: you smelled something, so I think it was an air

695
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: quality issue. And she kept the boys away, and she

696
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: doesn't go anywhere with those kids, so she wasn't gonna

697
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: leave them in New York and come here. So but

698
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: she you know, we knew this was gonna be a

699
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: long trial, so she made it.

700
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 7: What her name in the next baby? Oh, sorry, the

701
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 7: name of the next baby after except Joe, except Joe.

702
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 7: So that means we're not gonna get a Rihanna album

703
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 7: because they about to have to make a baby.

704
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 6: So it's all your song.

705
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: Sorry, sorry, But Rocky's album's coming out soon, and that

706
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: thing is fire. I mean I heard some songs on that.

707
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm you know, he does something. He's a

708
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: little different, like he's not you know, but this next

709
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: album is gonna be different than anything I've ever heard

710
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: anyway around. You're gonna you're gonna be If I'm not

711
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: the best man, there's a problem. I was gonna.

712
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 3: I was gonna ask, you know, when you take a case,

713
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 3: do you have to believe.

714
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: The person to believe in the person.

715
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: Okay, break that down.

716
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: So look, I don't prejudge anyone. I'm not the judge

717
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: during executioner. Right, I've represented people who have probably done

718
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: what they've been accused of doing, but doesn't mean they're

719
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 1: bad people and don't deserve representation. You know, if we

720
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: all had our worst ten minutes of our lives captured

721
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: on video or something like that, I don't think we'd

722
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: all be happy. Right. If I love a person or

723
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: I think they're really good people and they just made

724
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: a mistake, I could deal with that. I'm not going

725
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: to subborn perjury. I'm not going to make up a story,

726
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: but I'll help them get through it, and that sometimes

727
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: that means just mitigating the damage. Right. Sometimes, you know,

728
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: with Meek's case, for example, right meet, you know, when

729
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: the crime, he led guilty to it, but this judge

730
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: in Philly was obsessed with him and was had him

731
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: under probation for over ten years. No one ever ever

732
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: he was a kid, he was a teenager when his

733
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: crime is committee. Ten years later, he's still in the probation.

734
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: If he came to court White sox boom two more,

735
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: yesprobation she wanted him under his thumb. She wanted him

736
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: to make a record about her. It's like she was.

737
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: It was an issue going on there. So it wasn't

738
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: like we were saying Meek was innocent, innocent, but he

739
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: served his his his you know, his sentence, and he

740
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: was being abused by the system, and the district Courney

741
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: came around and agreed with us, and eventually I got

742
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: that dismissed. We resolved the case, and you know that

743
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: judge was was relocated to a civil park.

744
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 7: He was Did you did you know that make me

745
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 7: a movement was going to be as big as it

746
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 7: was when that because it got it grew so insanely.

747
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: That was crazy. No, because what I first first, honestly,

748
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't realize how big that was and

749
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: how I loved that guy was, especially in Philly. I mean,

750
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: he's like Rocky in Philly, right, And so I culture

751
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: Reverend hal who I'm very close with, and and the

752
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: Reverend I said, can you come to Philly with me

753
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 1: and to visit him in jail and maybe you make

754
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: us stand here, this judge is really giving them once over,

755
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: and you know, I did I need you to help

756
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: on this one, and Reverend said to me, one thing,

757
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: is he a good guy? Joe? Am I getting embarrassors?

758
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: See you good guys? No, no, Reverend, you will not

759
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: get embarrassed here. It's worth it. He's a good guy.

760
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: More important, he's getting he's getting run over by the system.

761
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: And he has the wherewithal, He has a voice. You know.

762
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: That means ninety people in that system in Philly don't

763
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: have that voice, don't have the wherewithal. And again trampled on.

764
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: And it's true. They reformed, you know, that whole probation

765
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: system in Philadelphia because of Meek in our case put

766
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: a spotlight on it, you know, So it was it was.

767
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: It was an important case for a lot of reasons.

768
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 5: How did you get your reputation?

769
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 4: Like how did you become the person that people like

770
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 4: Donald Trump and Daniel Snyder and Michael Jackson?

771
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 5: How do you become that guy?

772
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: You know? Results at the end of the day, it's results, right,

773
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: I mean you had.

774
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 5: To have a first big case that that put your name.

775
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: As a prosecutor homicide in Brooklyn, you know, and I

776
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: did well there, but then I left and you know

777
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: I was doing well. My first case was a police

778
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: corruption case and called the Morgue Boys. Those guys were cops,

779
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 1: were alleged to have been robbing drug dealers in East

780
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: New York and then splitting them up in the and

781
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: then Morgue Factory.

782
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 6: And that was why, just give me power, like the

783
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 6: fifty go ahead.

784
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: So anyway, that was my first on the front page

785
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: New York Times. So I'm like a month out of

786
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: the DA's office. I have nationally important case, you know,

787
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: very important case. And I got my guy off, I

788
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: got acquittal, and from there I went on some talk

789
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: shows to talk about it, and then I started with

790
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: that no, that's later morg Boys. This was like, you know,

791
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: Michael Dowd was the main witness the Model Commission. That

792
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: was like that's what we're talking about, like ninety early nineties.

793
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: And then then you know, just sort of steamrolled from

794
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: there a little bit. I started getting case at the case.

795
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: I started representing a lot of cops first, and then

796
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: rappers like Raquen came to me on a little thing. Foxy. Right,

797
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: Foxy put out a great post yesterday or something like that,

798
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: a picture of us. I looked like I was twelve

799
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: years old in that picture. But Foxy was awesome. My god,

800
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: who's I had all these like old school gangster rappers, right,

801
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: sticky fingers, form onyx, you know, and and stuff like that.

802
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: And so I started getting to that world a little bit,

803
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: just you know, and then working hard. And then you know,

804
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: I had some good case. I had some good wins.

805
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: People think I was gonna win these cases. And I

806
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: started winning cases. And then Johnny came Cochrane, fresho off

807
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: the heels of OJ right, so, and he looked me up.

808
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: Someone said something about me, and he looked me up.

809
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: He said I heard a lot of good things about you.

810
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: I got a call from him and I'm like, okay, yeah,

811
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: Johnny cockran sure. I didn't believe I didn't know him,

812
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: and he said, could you meet me at my office.

813
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I'm gon shit you off. So

814
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: again I thought this was like a candy camera prankers.

815
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: I went there and it was him, and he just like,

816
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: I love your style, I love what you do. I've

817
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 1: seen work, I've read your transcripts. You're gonna be a star,

818
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: You're gonna be me. And I was like, really you

819
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: think that? And I mean I was confident in myself.

820
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: I you know, I had some good wins early on,

821
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: and he just like just yes, let's let's let's hang

822
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: together and let's do some things together. I'm like, okay.

823
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,240
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, you know, Johnny cochrane

824
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 1: and and it helped, it was it was a great

825
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: thing for me. And I'm still young, Lauren. You know,

826
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: He's then sent me some work and then just happens.

827
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: You know, then once you win a big case and

828
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: you know you're in the game, then all of a

829
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: sudden just started just started that way. I got Foxy,

830
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, off of a few things. She had a

831
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: little soul phone problem, kept slipping at of her hands,

832
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 1: hitting people.

833
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 4: And do you have a fear any retaliation because they

834
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 4: know they described they described you as the most hated

835
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 4: a lawyer in New York City because you take on

836
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 4: a lot of controversial cases.

837
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: That was I love that that they described it. It

838
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: was one anonymous prosecutors asked, I kicked and I know

839
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: the case. That was a quote to the New York Post,

840
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: of course, the near Post and makes most hey, lor

841
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: One person said that I'm sure a lot of people

842
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: hate No, No, I don't give a crap. A lot

843
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: of people hate me. I know, I could look myself

844
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: in the mirror. I'm a hard charger. I don't look

845
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: to make friends when I go into a courtroom. I

846
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: look to defend the person I'm standing that stuff, and

847
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: if it means I ruffle a few feathers, so be it.

848
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: I really don't care. But you know, it's that controversial cases.

849
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: Anyone who's charged with bad things, you know, needs a

850
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: criminal defense start. I don't know if that makes it controversial,

851
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: but yes, they're talking about the rape cops rape Cops case.

852
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was that was the King of Marino case.

853
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was Marino, which I wanted no one to

854
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: the could win because he was on a wire. She

855
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: was wired and he acknowledged what they claim he did.

856
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 5: And how do you want something like that?

857
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: Well, I said, basically, he told her what she wanted

858
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: to hear, calm her down. And I used science in

859
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: that case. That case was a science case. That it

860
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: was scientifically that was against this one with the rape

861
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: and I believed it, by the way, just so you know,

862
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: and and you know, we put on we put on

863
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: scientific evidence and I had him testify and he describes

864
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: his actions, the content that it wasn't all right. He

865
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: did make misconflict like he you know, he was a

866
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: recovering alcoholic. She was blackout drunk and he was trying

867
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: to help her, and so he went back and to

868
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: the apartment multiple times at night. But the jury believed him.

869
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: And that jury was also another I picked smart juries

870
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: when I need people to understand intricate defenses. I had five.

871
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: I believe who's on that jury that was which people like,

872
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 1: you're crazy. They most people think defense attorneys want the

873
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 1: dumbest stories you could find. I don't. I want people

874
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: to understand what the burdens are. The proof be unreasonable doubt.

875
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: Thing is you know you don't. We don't walk around

876
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: going hey, I don't know, did you prove that beyond

877
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt? To me? You don't do that in right life.

878
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: But that's the highest standard of law allows. I mean,

879
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: you know, in a civil case, mere preponderance, I could

880
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: bankrupt you, take your money, take your house on a

881
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: fit fifty one forty nine percent verdict. That's preponderance, right, ponnously.

882
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: That's criminal case. That doesn't mean anything. I could take

883
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: your child away on clear and convincing evidence, right, that's

884
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: the standard higher than ponderance. I could literally a parent

885
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: could lose cost of a child on clear and convincing evidence.

886
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: That is not enough to convince someone in this country.

887
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: You have to go to the highest standard law permits,

888
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: which is proofly on a reasonable doubt. And when I

889
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: sort of make sure the Drew understands how high that is.

890
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: It's not he probably committed the crime. It's not I

891
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: think he committed the crime. It's not it's very likely

892
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: he committed the crime. It's not I'm almost certain he

893
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,439
Speaker 1: committed the crime. It's I have no reason to doubt

894
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: he committed the crime. That's a real high standard. And

895
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: I have to make sure that Juri understands that, and

896
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: then I list the reasons to doubt, so you know

897
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: it's I take on these cases that I believe in.

898
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: I've turned down a lot of cases, a lot of

899
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: cases that could be lucrative or even very high profile.

900
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein was one. He'd try to hire me, and

901
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: I wouldn't.

902
00:40:58,880 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 5: Why why I.

903
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: Told you that thing about having a bond with somebody

904
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: feeling like, you know, people have been charged some horrific things.

905
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: But I liked it. I could tell it was good

906
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 1: inside of them more. I just had a good connection

907
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: with them.

908
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 5: You didn't feel that with him.

909
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: They did not feel that with him.

910
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 4: Let me ask you a question, good because that's interesting

911
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 4: with the with the you represented Donald Trump in the

912
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 4: storm Daniel's case. Was that ever? Was there ever even

913
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 4: a chance of you winning that? And the reason I

914
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 4: asked that is because it was politicized, you know what

915
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 4: I mean?

916
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 5: It was politicized. It was all over the media. Everybody

917
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 5: knew it was a target on Trump, like they wanted

918
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 5: to nail it.

919
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: No doubt, that was not a case that would have

920
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: been broader for anyone. And I mean that whether whatever

921
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: your opinions are of Trump, I'm talking about the defendant.

922
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: That case would never have been brought if we're not him.

923
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: It was a case of first impression. Would think about it.

924
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,919
Speaker 1: It was a settlement of a a personal matter, right

925
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: alleged you know, affair, consensual, nothing looking, but you know,

926
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: she was basically trying to get money from him to

927
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 1: keep it quiet. He paid her. Whether it happened didn't

928
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: happen to irrelevant. He paid her some money. And of story,

929
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: he didn't take a tax deduction on it, he didn't

930
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: file it in his campaign thing. I mean, he paid

931
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: personal money. Somehow they try and make that into a

932
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 1: false filing in his own records. So because he put

933
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: you know, payment, legal feest or whatever in his internal records,

934
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: this attorney charge.

935
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 3: I'd never understood how that was a charge.

936
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 1: It's not, it's not. It wasn't and I don't think

937
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: it would have held up in court. But you know,

938
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,479
Speaker 1: all the things that happened have happened. I actually didn't

939
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: try that. I stepped out from representing man after that.

940
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: I beat the rape charge for Gene Carroll. That's the

941
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: one I was involved in the rape allegation, and we

942
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: won that. He was then clipped with sexual conduct, sexual

943
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: and the defamation of her. But and he look, here's

944
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,959
Speaker 1: the bottom line. He cannot win New York drury trial

945
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: and just can never do it. It's just never happening,

946
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: you know. So that's that's that's a different thing. That

947
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: was a different thing altogether. You know, is there like.

948
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 7: An ethics thing for your attorneys where like, because I'm

949
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 7: just sitting here thinking, like you representing Trump, like people

950
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 7: right now love everything about what you're doing because of

951
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 7: a sat right, But I'm sure during you represented Trump,

952
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 7: They probably thought you were like exactly something, and.

953
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: Then the others loved me like it's like you know,

954
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: when I represented Lelo Broncado, right, the Sopranos actor, the

955
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: guy they he and some other guy were breaking in

956
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: to get some drugs from a house. They were both addicts,

957
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: that crazy atats. They were going into a house of

958
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: a friend who used to give them drugs and he

959
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: was very dead, so they drugs were breaking cop. As

960
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: the neighbors sees it, the other guy shoots him dead.

961
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: Lelo is not a gun. He didn't know what the

962
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: guy's have gone. The other guy got life in prison

963
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: and Leo went to trial the charge home murders try

964
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: to murder, which is the same as murder. And we

965
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: beat that, and we beat it because we had to

966
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: present the case with Leo the fight, and you know,

967
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: we proved that he did not know that this other

968
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: guy are meant to had a gun. Now, you know,

969
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: I just told you I represent all these cops in

970
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: different cases, major cases, in case all these cases that

971
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: day that mean Pat Lynch was like, you know, in

972
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: the whole we almost had a fistfight, like so you know,

973
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: I'm a chamileon I guess I'm representing who I represent

974
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: that particular moment. When I represent Trump, A lot of

975
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: people hate me for that I represent. When I represent

976
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: someone like uh, you know, Rocky or Meek, other people

977
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: hate me for that, right, And I don't care. I

978
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: don't lose sleep. I have mirrors, as long as I

979
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: could look at the mirror and I do the right thing,

980
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: and I don't mess around like I you know, and again,

981
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: as long as I'm comfortable, like with the with the

982
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: with the Trump thing. I thought those cases I got

983
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: involved in, I thought, absolutely, yes, I really did certain

984
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: case I wouldn't get involved in.

985
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 2: When you take a step back, right, and I'm sure

986
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: people have asked you a million in one time, and

987
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 2: you look at, for example, this Diddy case, would you

988
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 2: do a lot of things different than his attorney's actually

989
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: doing because it seems like they're already losing and it

990
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 2: just it doesn't make sense.

991
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 3: What would you do different?

992
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: Well, uh, I wouldn't go out in the press and

993
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: make pronouncements that are later disproved quickly because you sent

994
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: the loose credibility. I mean, there's this whole thing, like

995
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: the stupid baby oil thing, right, who cares first of all, right,

996
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: but that became like this, this this battle line, and

997
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: they went out and said, oh, you know, he just

998
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: brought him in bulk at that Costco right down the

999
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: block from his house. And that's that's why he has

1000
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: it so big, No big deal. But baby, First of all,

1001
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 1: it's a thousand bottles. Do buy a thousand bottle of

1002
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: right Roads in bold, but that was what he said,

1003
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: of course that. Then Costco then comes out with a statement, No,

1004
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: we've never sold baby lotion in our life.

1005
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 5: Jesus, we don't.

1006
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: Not one Costco ever sold baby loces. So boom, Now

1007
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: it looks like somebody's lying. Right, you don't need that.

1008
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 7: Kind of stuff on the Cassie video too, And they.

1009
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 6: Came out strong before the video dropped.

1010
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 3: That was before you charged.

1011
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1012
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: Now look, here's the thing with the Cassio video that's horrible,

1013
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: cringe worthy. Right, you don't do that. You don't put

1014
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: your hand on a woman. I don't care what the

1015
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: story is, just I wouldn't anyway, not how I grow right,

1016
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: But that's not that's not What does that have to

1017
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: do with these non consensual what they called freak off things?

1018
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,919
Speaker 1: What did that video have to do with that though, right,

1019
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 1: and and I would say, well, and that's the one

1020
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: count of the trafficking. She's the one person in the

1021
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,919
Speaker 1: trafficking count. Like, what does that video have to do? Okay,

1022
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: maybe you should be charged with domestic violence in state court,

1023
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: but what does that have to do with a non

1024
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: consentual freak off where people are being alleged to have

1025
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: non consensual you know, sex because they're drugged up and

1026
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: they're being gang raped or whatever. I don't see why

1027
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: that video was so of course, that video has been

1028
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: played and showed and people think like, oh, he's guilty.

1029
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: But he's guilty like assault of a woman who was

1030
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: his girlfriend. That doesn't make me guilty of everything else. Now,

1031
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about the case. I was asked

1032
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: to take a look at the case. There's another case.

1033
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: I said, I would not be interested.

1034
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 3: I just want to the same same reason. Connection is

1035
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,399
Speaker 3: it's different a little bit.

1036
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: I represent Rock Nation, a lot of people from Rock

1037
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: and very close with Jay and Desert Perez was most amazing,

1038
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: Like I love them, bomb up a boss love amazing.

1039
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: You know, Jay Brown, all those people are just like

1040
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: there really are special, special people and they you know,

1041
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: that's sort of family to me, and you know, I

1042
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: don't think they're they're sort of.

1043
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 3: Last question on that, do you think you.

1044
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,439
Speaker 5: Should say that again? Please?

1045
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: I don't think they see repet Diddy.

1046
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 4: I just want to throw that out there, because you

1047
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 4: remember everybody was saying when Jay said they weren't friends,

1048
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,439
Speaker 4: everybody was like they were in pictures together all the time.

1049
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: Everyone was a picture of Peat Diddy at one time

1050
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: or another, they went to a party. But when things

1051
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: got real years and years ago, you know, do.

1052
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 2: You think he should have got a bail? And do

1053
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 2: you think he didn't get a bail? Break that down

1054
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 2: because I said the same thing and people thought I

1055
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: was crazy?

1056
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: No, no, what what I mean? He was willing. First

1057
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: of all, it was no mistake I thought they made saying, oh,

1058
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: he'll have a ankle bracelet and stay in his.

1059
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 6: Mansion in Miami and monitor who comes in and the.

1060
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: Case in New York. Staying at a resort in Miami

1061
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: with a pool is not exactly really something I would

1062
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: offer up to the court. What I would have said, Remember,

1063
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: like I dk asked the French guy who was charged

1064
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: here with the rape of a maiden hotel because named

1065
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: Dominic cal Straan Dominic Strauss Khan his bail. He got bail.

1066
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: And the reason he got bail was he said, I'll

1067
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: rent the place here in New York, i will stay inside,

1068
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: I'll have I'll pay for security, I'll have a brace on.

1069
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 1: That's a concession. I think maybe if they had done

1070
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: that from the beginning, that may have been something that happened. Look,

1071
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: I don't you know, there's a presumption of innocence that

1072
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: we still have to not worth. You know, people have

1073
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 1: forgotten that in this country a lot. He is innocent

1074
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: right now. He did He's innocent, whatever you think of

1075
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: him or everything that you know, the evidence will be.

1076
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: No one's seen a minute of testimony. Yet he's presumed

1077
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: innocent until and unless the prosecution proves that case beyond

1078
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt. They may do it one day, but

1079
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: not today. And and you know, to get to keep

1080
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: someone in jail for a year awaiting trial, they have

1081
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: to either be a flight risk or a danger of

1082
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: community or or or they've done something so horrific like

1083
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: a murder. Right where you know, bail is not necessarily common.

1084
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: This is a case of having parties that got out

1085
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: of hand and there's allegations of you know, sexual misconduct.

1086
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 4: Okay, I just don't see how you, as an attorney

1087
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 4: it can do. Like when when the court of public

1088
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 4: opinion has already convicted somebody, which it seems like they

1089
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 4: have with that's got to make your job so difficult.

1090
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 5: How do you don't know?

1091
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 2: Because every jura turns on the news, it's all over

1092
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 2: on social media.

1093
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 6: And even with the.

1094
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 7: Video you mentioned, I feel like even though he's not

1095
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 7: I mean, he's not convicted of anything in relation to

1096
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 7: that video, but the picture that it paints, I don't

1097
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 7: see how an attorney wins after that, because.

1098
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 1: Well, you have to be smart. Look in the rape

1099
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: cops case for it. So I'll tell you an example

1100
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: of Rocky. Also in the rape cops case, these guys

1101
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: before trial were called rape cops, rape cops. We're picking

1102
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: a jury that called the rape cops case not a

1103
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: leed rape cops case, rape cops. I fronted with the

1104
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: jury said, you guys understand that they've been called rape

1105
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: cops for years before you heard a minute of testimony.

1106
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: They've been deemed rough committed crime. You guys should take

1107
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,919
Speaker 1: a fetch to that, because we as a society. Don't

1108
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: want to be judged by the president deemed guilty before

1109
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 1: we've had a chance to have a due process of hearing.

1110
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: We then saw failing as a society if we do that. Look,

1111
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: a great example of my day, example not so much

1112
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: Monern anymore, but still relatively recent, is that Richard Jewel guy.

1113
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: Remember that guy from the Atlanta Olympics. They used they

1114
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: made a movie great, one of the best movies ever,

1115
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: called Jewel. But he was the heavy security guard, the bomber,

1116
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: they said, the Olympic bomber in the Atlanta Olympics. They

1117
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,959
Speaker 1: said he was the guy with the fat guy who

1118
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,720
Speaker 1: planted They said, planted a bomb and the Atlanta Olympics

1119
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: that went off, and they you know, they FBI was

1120
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: all over him. He was, you know, he was a

1121
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 1: sort of a sort of hapless guy. And the guy

1122
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 1: was a security guard and they say planted his bomb,

1123
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 1: and he was condemned and the world had convicted them.

1124
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact. You know, there was that

1125
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 1: Ted Kaczynski, the Montana bomb, the Union bomber. So they

1126
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: called this guy to make fun of the UNI blubber,

1127
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: and and it was basically they condemned him and they

1128
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: he there was a lawyer who touch his case and

1129
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: he didn't have any money, and some like you know

1130
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: lawyer who worked in social work services basically said well

1131
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: let me see, I don't know I help you. But

1132
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: he's started looking at it by little things in that

1133
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 1: up and the FBI was playing some games and it

1134
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: turned out this guy was stone cold innocent and he

1135
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: was actually a hero. He was actually trying to move

1136
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: the bag that blew up and people from next to it,

1137
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: and they thought he was going to plant it, and

1138
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: he was exonerated. He was totally one exonerated. But his

1139
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: life was over, Like how he had a year of

1140
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 1: being called a murderer, a bomber terrorist making fun of him,

1141
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: calling them the Uni blubber and the truth is never

1142
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: as loud as July, right, and then and then and

1143
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: then what happens He died of a heart attack like

1144
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: six months later, like he just was his heart was broken,

1145
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: his life was over, and it was really sad that

1146
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: they had a great movie called Jewel. It's called Jewel

1147
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: And if you know, you want to see how our

1148
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,720
Speaker 1: system could really screw up a life, watch that movie.

1149
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 2: Do you feel do you feel like as a community.

1150
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: We don't do enough as far as Jeurry Judy is concerned.

1151
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 2: Like you talk about one hundred and seventy people and

1152
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 2: it was five. And I talked about this on the

1153
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: air a lot of times. It's effed up because we

1154
00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 2: don't want to go to court, We don't want to

1155
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 2: spend that time. But then when we do something wrong

1156
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 2: or when we're on trial, we don't have our peers.

1157
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, that's what some people told me. You know,

1158
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: they were like, I'm like, how could this be? I

1159
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: thought it was. I really thought it was a plant.

1160
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: Like I was like, they're setting this up. This is

1161
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 1: a setup. There's no way in downtown LA. You know,

1162
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 1: they moved. They were thinking about moving the OJ trial

1163
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: to Santa Monica to get it out of downtown LA

1164
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: because so there wouldn't be so many blacks, right, And

1165
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: the DA said, no, no, we don't want to give the

1166
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: appearances that were doing that. So because it was on

1167
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: the heels of Rodney King, so they kept in downtown

1168
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 1: LA and we had, you know, eight black juris when

1169
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 1: they filed in. I was like, I'm like, I mean,

1170
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: I was the blackest guy in the room aside from

1171
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: Rocky like me. So I'm like, what is going on here?

1172
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: And it was just it was odd. But so someone

1173
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: said to me, well, you know, someone's just go out

1174
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: the jury. Somethings go out. We can't force people to

1175
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: respond and show up, you know. So I'd say to

1176
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: the community, you gotta you gotta show up to represent

1177
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: because then then you know the day we need and

1178
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: we being this community, the day that that's needed to

1179
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 1: be represented. So you have a jury of your peers,

1180
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't show up, you're you're failing

1181
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: each other. And I think that's important. That's a great

1182
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: point to JAF.

1183
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 7: I have one more Diddy question and did another asap question.

1184
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 7: So for Diddy, would you have advised him if you

1185
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 7: were if you were his attorney when Cassie first reached

1186
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 7: out to just achieve my god, just paid the money.

1187
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: Listen to That was the honestly, And I don't I

1188
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: hate they're talking to other attorneys because attorneys who do

1189
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: that and don't believe me. There were so many jealous

1190
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: people of me that I've heard people say, oh, he's

1191
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: not a good trial. Heer's not a goodness And all

1192
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: I do is win And then it was this last

1193
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: case on national TV so people could see me cross examine,

1194
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 1: see my five hours summation were like holy cow. But

1195
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,439
Speaker 1: you know, there are haters out there and people who

1196
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,919
Speaker 1: just say negative things to make themselves feel better because

1197
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: they don't have good self worth, right, And anyone talks

1198
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: negatively about other people publicly anyway, it's just because they

1199
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 1: feel bad about themselves. I truly believe that. That being said,

1200
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: I don't like the bad mouth of the lawyers, but

1201
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna talk facts here. That strategy that was

1202
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: that was a legal trade wreck. What happened because this

1203
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: avoided avoided he had that case where with Cassie right,

1204
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: and it was all about a civil case. Civil there

1205
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: was no prosecutes involved, no FBI nothing. They wanted a

1206
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: settlement and you know, these lawyers said, you know, no,

1207
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: they'll close. No, but no, and they said, well, we're

1208
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: going to file a lawsuit if you don't give us

1209
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:35,800
Speaker 1: a settlement, and like, you know, go ahead, then bad.

1210
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 5: Bad move, you know, especially knowing the tape exists and

1211
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 5: all that.

1212
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 7: Like that, I think they underestimated her, her voice, like

1213
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 7: what she was going to do, how people would consider.

1214
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 1: How people can respond looking at this day and age. Now,

1215
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: this day and age to cancel culture. My god, people

1216
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: get accused of anything, gone, You're gone, Like that's it.

1217
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: You don't even get a chance to defend yourself. Just

1218
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: the accusation is enough to cripple somebody and this career. Right,

1219
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 1: so that happens. He went from being on top of

1220
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: the hill. You know, whispers always about him whatever, But

1221
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:08,320
Speaker 1: he went from be on top of the hill to

1222
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 1: boom like the pariah. No one wanted to even and

1223
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 1: they knew him. And look what happened. They filed that

1224
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: lawsuit and what do you get? You get red ink

1225
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: end of the world headlines, Right, did he rapist? But

1226
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: all this crazy stuff and what do they do? The worst?

1227
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: Once you let that happen, You now have to fight.

1228
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 1: You have to fight that suit. You have to. But

1229
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: instead the day after they filed it, they settled. And

1230
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 1: so what that was was in admission and then it

1231
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: opened up the floodgates. You notice what happened right after that,

1232
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: right woo everyone whoever met him, me too, I want

1233
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 1: the money to like he did to me. And there

1234
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: was twenty thirty forty. Then the FBI was like, wait, well,

1235
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 1: what all these women, so some of them will go

1236
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: into law enforcement, someone will go into civil attorneys. But

1237
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: it was an avalanche that came around him. And the

1238
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: only reason that it happened is because they didn't sell

1239
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,760
Speaker 1: that case civily. Because if that Caste case was settled

1240
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: and went away, none would have heard anything nothing. There

1241
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: would no other people coming after the Diddy until that

1242
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 1: thing was filed. Right, So if you're going to settle,

1243
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: you settle before they filed the lawsuits. That's what you're

1244
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: settling for, to prevent that public damage, right, But you

1245
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: don't let them follow it. And then so the day

1246
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: later that's the worst of all worlds because then it's

1247
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: a mission and then bam.

1248
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 4: And you can't give him the benefit of the doubt

1249
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 4: because you know he lied us about Cassidy. Then the

1250
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 4: video comes out to it Now it's just like everything

1251
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 4: else you hear, you like, I don't know what's.

1252
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:35,959
Speaker 1: True and was not true, And none of that would

1253
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 1: have happened if he settled, which is crazy. If you

1254
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: had to do it roll over again, you know, we'd

1255
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: give her one hundred million whatever, because what's his life worth?

1256
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 4: Because now I want to ask you something to I

1257
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:49,919
Speaker 4: only got a couple more questions. You worked under Michael

1258
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 4: Jackson case. Is it true that Johnny Cochrane told Michael

1259
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 4: Jackson once don't settle if you don't settle with anybody,

1260
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 4: because when you settle, you become a pigyment.

1261
00:57:58,880 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 5: Yep.

1262
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 3: Do you feel that way for all cases?

1263
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: Not for all cases. I think each case is different, right,

1264
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: Look what Michael was different? If you Michael said the

1265
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: case somehow it was out there in the press, right,

1266
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: that was Michael was Michael. There's only one Michael Jackson, right,

1267
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: So I know Johnny did that to him, but he

1268
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: was right to say that to him. But not every case.

1269
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,919
Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes the settlement is a good thing

1270
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: because it just not because you did it or because

1271
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: you want a mission. But just take Diddy as an example.

1272
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: Sometimes the settlement will save more money than you could

1273
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: ever imagined later and more heartache.

1274
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 5: But he actually did it.

1275
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 4: I'm talking about people who because I've seen cases where

1276
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 4: people would settle just because they don't want the bad

1277
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 4: press and they don't want to end up spending a

1278
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 4: whole bunch of money and court for the next four

1279
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 4: or five years.

1280
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 1: And I've represented some very very famous people without the

1281
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: case ever become public, that have settled because it's not

1282
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: worth it, just the allegation is not and they'll pay

1283
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: money even though they proclaim their innocence. But they're like,

1284
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: but yeah, but okay, so I met this person, so

1285
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: there is they can prove that they know me or

1286
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 1: met me. And now I have to then fight, like

1287
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 1: and and go after this. But yet all under the

1288
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: cloud of suspicion. And again in this day and age,

1289
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: when you're when you're accused of something, it's like you

1290
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: know your son are guilty, and if you challenge the accusation,

1291
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,919
Speaker 1: you're victimizing the victim even though they're not a victim. Yet,

1292
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 1: Like that drives me crazy. You can't even defend yourself.

1293
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: So if someone accused me of sexual misconduct and I

1294
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 1: said she's a liar or she's made these false claims before,

1295
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 1: oh how you're victimizing the victim all over again, and

1296
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: did she become a victim that's the allegation. I'm telling you,

1297
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: I'm innocent. I'm gonna fight this, so I you know,

1298
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: but now if you defend yourself, you're you know, you're

1299
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: a pariah. So it's just it's yes. So people do

1300
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: settle all the time. It's called the nuisance, you know,

1301
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: just to make sure that they don't wind up from

1302
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: pigeon post DMZ and you know on the breakfast.

1303
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 5: Love and I got three more questions. You have one question?

1304
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 6: A question, right, Yeah, I have an a question.

1305
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 7: I just saw just now that he was named the

1306
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 7: first ever creative director of Rayband.

1307
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's Rocky.

1308
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 7: And I remember after the case happened, you talked about

1309
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 7: and you talked about it here like telling Gucci to

1310
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 7: hold off on the Gucci Guilty, which is an amazing

1311
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,439
Speaker 7: cent and by the way, but telling him to hold off.

1312
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 7: And I just I think for me, when I heard

1313
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 7: you talk about that, and I'm seeing this now, I

1314
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 7: think about, even though he was proven innocent, were there

1315
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 7: people who walked away, Like in the midst of this.

1316
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 6: No, everybody's saying I feel all the.

1317
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I was like on conference call of Comfort, Gucci, Puma,

1318
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: all these different brands who worked with Rocky who wanted

1319
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: to know what was going on, giving them up. They

1320
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: I would tell them, we're gonna win, We're gonna win,

1321
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: We're gonna win, but you gotta wait. Gucci Guilty was

1322
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: my biggest heart attack. The wolfings to be called the

1323
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: alone Gucci guilty, and they wanted to roll it out

1324
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: before Valentine's Dad. I'm like, that would have missed the

1325
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: middle of the trial. I'm gonna be summing up on

1326
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day. Can you do me a favor and just

1327
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: wait another week? They're like, what's Valentine's I'm like, I

1328
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: don't get They called Gucci not guilty. How about that?

1329
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: Put it a little not in there and then let

1330
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: it roll. But you can't call Gucci guilty. So what

1331
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: they did was recompromise. They put the ad out with

1332
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: Rocky in it holding the bottle cologne, and there was

1333
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 1: no Gucci guilty. It was just the Colonne and Rocky.

1334
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: But if you looked at the bottle to get real close,

1335
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: it would say Gucci guilty on the bottle. But they

1336
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: didn't put those big letters. Now there's all the big

1337
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: letters and now I don't care, right, So that was nuts.

1338
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 4: I got two more questions, did how good did it feel?

1339
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 4: Because that was what's the young lady's name that'd be

1340
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 4: doing this stuff? Megan was mean, Yeah, I saw you

1341
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 4: point at her and said you were wrong.

1342
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, if I think it came in talking about Rocky.

1343
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 9: Following us high Rocky and then one day, I mean,

1344
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 9: you sent me some messages that were pretty against the prosecution,

1345
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 9: very for Rocket, and one day whoop.

1346
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened, but whoop. The defense is lying.

1347
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: He's gonna be found guilty. Who would believe him?

1348
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 6: I'm like, I think it was the prop gun thing.

1349
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: Nah, it was the prop gun thing. The proper gun

1350
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: thing was in the beginning, so it wasn't the proper

1351
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: First of all, if you're a journalist, be a journalist,

1352
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: you're not. If you're not, if you're gonna pretend to

1353
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: be a journalist and you're really not a journalists and

1354
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 1: do what you want, say what you want. No journalist

1355
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: says the defense is lying. They report the facts. It's

1356
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 1: for other people to determine. Right. So I guess she's

1357
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: not a journalist, but she's a blogger. Right.

1358
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 7: She's an attorney though, correct? Wasn't she an attorney at

1359
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 7: one point? I don't think that she was an.

1360
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 1: Attorney at one point? Wrong? I mean, listen, I don't

1361
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: have any personal feelings against her, but it was it

1362
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: was shocking to see her go from one to the other,

1363
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: and she's like, no one's gonna believe this defense. Well,

1364
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 1: guess what. And we had a three hour and look

1365
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: we had a four week trial. We had a vert

1366
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: in three hours. I knew that point we won. There's

1367
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: no doubt. It's not one hundred percent because you never

1368
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: know what a durid could do. But for twelve people

1369
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: that can beyond a reasonable doubt on that evidence, it

1370
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 1: was gonna take a long time to get everyone around

1371
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: what we found out from I spoke to three drawers personally,

1372
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone spoke to one, and someone else spoke to one.

1373
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: The one Dury that was on video was there basically

1374
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 1: our worst drawer or the one who was against us

1375
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: that she believed it was she believed, she believed. But

1376
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 1: when they went to the drew room, ten people voted

1377
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: immediately within one minute to it quit. Wow, Okay, there's

1378
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. Look, can we say, can anyone say it's

1379
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: definitely a prop gun? Of course not. Can anyone say

1380
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 1: it's definitely a real gun? Of course not. So that's

1381
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt and that's not guilty though. That's it. But

1382
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, she then came out, she was walked to

1383
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 1: the court and a three hour verdict. When you get

1384
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: a three hour vert it's the defense verdict ninety nine

1385
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 1: percent of the time, especially in a four week trial, right,

1386
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 1: because you can't come to the conclusion that he's guilt.

1387
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: You have to go really comb through the evidence. They

1388
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: asked for one exhibit in their notes, the defense video.

1389
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: That's it, the FNCH video. Five minutes later, we have

1390
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 1: a verdict. It didn't take a rocket science figure out

1391
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 1: where this was going. Right. So she's walking the court

1392
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 1: like doing a selfie video. If anyone thinks this is

1393
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: not guilty, they're crazy. Of course that it's guilty. They

1394
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 1: didn't believe the prop cunning, and it's gonna be a

1395
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 1: guilty very clearly. A quick video like this is death

1396
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: for the defense. Okay, she's talking about but I guess

1397
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: we're gonna say and or it's not guilty. And I

1398
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:38,479
Speaker 1: killed in and I just looked at her. I said,

1399
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 1: you were wrong, you know, so whatever.

1400
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 7: By the way, I can't find any evidence that she

1401
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 7: was an interney. I tried to look it up. Yeah,

1402
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 7: I think it was.

1403
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 6: She worked for Long Cry.

1404
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 4: One of my favorite movies, Devil's Advocate, Keanu reeves you

1405
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 4: know al Pacino and you know in that movie, can

1406
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 4: resplayed the character named Kevin, and he's representing somebody.

1407
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 5: But in the midst of representing him, he realized, oh shit,

1408
01:04:59,040 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 5: this mobuck's guilt.

1409
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 4: Remember the child educated god hard while he was while

1410
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 4: a young girl was understanding testifying. Have you ever been

1411
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 4: in a situation like that, like in the mydst of it,

1412
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 4: you like, I mean I think this motherfucker actually did it?

1413
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it wasn't this case. Oh look,

1414
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: I've tried one hundred and twenty jury trials and so

1415
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: again a chunk of those was a prosecutor. But there's

1416
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: been times where you know, I believe that since then

1417
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: I saw some evidence halfway through it was like, but

1418
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, at that point, you're you're you're just fighting

1419
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: them all. Yeah. All you can do at that point

1420
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: is if they don't want to take it please, you

1421
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: could just challenge the evidence, which is constitutionally what you

1422
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: have to do. Right, someone could be guilty but also

1423
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: be entitled to a not guilty verdict, And that sounds

1424
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: weird to people, but the reason that's true is because

1425
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 1: if the proof isn't there, if the prosecution has then

1426
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: met their burden to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

1427
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 1: The person's entitled to not guilty verd. The communities and

1428
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 1: towed tore not guilty verd. The system isn't tout thro're

1429
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 1: not guilty verdict it. You know, we're not a perfect system.

1430
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 1: But what you definitely don't want is we start cutting

1431
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: corners for people we know are guilty, because that's rick

1432
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: or jewel. That's what starts happening. Oh they're guilty, so

1433
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 1: we're you know, constitutional safeguards, we can cheat a little

1434
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: bit here and there. That's when innocent people start getting clipped.

1435
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 1: And that, to me is the worst thing that could

1436
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 1: ever happen. When I representing people who are purely innocent,

1437
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: that's the worst things for me because then I'm dealing

1438
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 1: with like a pressure that is just enormous, enormous, And

1439
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't win that case, you feel

1440
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 1: as like burden for the rest of your life.

1441
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 5: Does it bother you more with the more of the burden?

1442
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 7: Does it?

1443
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 4: Like if you know somebody's guilty and still represent them

1444
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 4: and when that isn't that a burden too?

1445
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 6: Though?

1446
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: No? No, because that means it's system worked that means

1447
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 1: it's system worked. It means the proof wasn't there. As

1448
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: almost I'm not a borning perjury, which I would never

1449
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 1: do as long as I'm not making you know, somebody

1450
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: say something that's not true. If someone's guilty and I

1451
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 1: think they're guilty, but they were found not guilty, that

1452
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: means the proof wasn't there. The proof wasn't there, and

1453
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 1: we need that person be found not guilty because it

1454
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 1: keeps the system strong, keeps all of us safe, because

1455
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 1: if we start again lowering stands for the ones we

1456
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: know are guilty, that's when, really that's when innocent people

1457
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: start getting convicted, and that's bad. So I could live

1458
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: with that as long as the system was put to

1459
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 1: the test and I've done my job, then you know

1460
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: it's it's it's is what it is. The worst thing

1461
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 1: is if you've represent someone who's truly, truly innocent, you

1462
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 1: know that truly innocent, and they're being either framed, set up,

1463
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 1: or just for whatever reason, there's an agenda, and you

1464
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: know that's that's the stuff that you lose sleepover because

1465
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 1: God forbid that convicted. I mean, just like, how do

1466
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: you deal with that? Do you have that with you

1467
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. So fortunately I've not

1468
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: had that happen. I've represent a lot of innocent, truly

1469
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 1: innocent people. They've all been vindicated, thank god, because if

1470
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 1: I had that happen, that would be that would be,

1471
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 1: you know, something that would be very tough to go

1472
01:07:58,400 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 1: on with.

1473
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 5: Absolutely do next, because do you take a break? Do

1474
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 5: you jump right back into a case?

1475
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: I gotta. I'm gonna have to go to my off sets,

1476
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:07,919
Speaker 1: so I'm afraid to see what I want to find

1477
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 1: on my desk. I mean, been there for five weeks.

1478
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 7: Especially now, you don't like take a break like you gotta,

1479
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 7: you miss, No.

1480
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:20,639
Speaker 1: That's the left for trial or I mean, look, will

1481
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: I take any downtime? Maybe a few days here or there,

1482
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 1: But I got there's a judge dying to get me

1483
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 1: on trial in Westchester County waiting for this case to

1484
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: be over, So so I know that's gonna happen soon.

1485
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 1: Trial in Arizona coming up. So it's you know, whatever

1486
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: it is, what it is. Yeah, try and take care

1487
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: of myself, keep myself in good shape, work out a

1488
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: lot well, and that gives me a little extra energy,

1489
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:45,599
Speaker 1: you know, go forward.

1490
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 4: You need a documentary or something absolutely seriously with all

1491
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 4: the represented.

1492
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 5: Hey, Joe, good to meet you. Pray Yeah, absolutely, sir.

1493
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 2: Well, we we definitely gonna keep your number because if

1494
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 2: we see any cases that we don't understand, we might

1495
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 2: need all to break some things down.

1496
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 6: For some time. I called you before I got you

1497
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 6: on the phone.

1498
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 3: That's right, wells as Joe Joe tackle Pena. It's the

1499
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,680
Speaker 3: Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that ass up in the

1500
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 3: morning for Breakfast Club.