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Speaker 1: Okay, interesting show today something we're gonna do something a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. Got Marshall with me, and we are

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Speaker 1: gonna but typically we just answer the questions that you

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Speaker 1: send podcast at grangersmith dot com, but we're not gonna

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Speaker 1: do that today. We're gonna answer your questions from the

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Speaker 1: YouTube page, which is what Marshall and I asked you

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Speaker 1: to do when we discussed something and maybe the first

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Speaker 1: of many discussions about what is a good church, what

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Speaker 1: to look for at a good church, different aspects according

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Speaker 1: to the Bible of what a good church would be.

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Speaker 1: And then I said, because this is such a deep topic,

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Speaker 1: I said, go to the YouTube page, my YouTube page

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Speaker 1: and find the video the podcast episode where it's actually

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Speaker 1: called how Do I Find a Good Church? It's Marshall

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Speaker 1: I talking just ten days ago from when we were

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Speaker 1: record this right now, and comment on that, and then

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Speaker 1: we can go through those comments and double down. So

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Speaker 1: this is going to be just fair game for any

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Speaker 1: of the podcasts I do from now on. You could

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Speaker 1: go on the YouTube page and I'll try to keep

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Speaker 1: an eye on that and make sure that we're kind

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Speaker 1: of getting a pulse of what you're saying on there.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to do that today. And the main

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Speaker 1: topic we were discussing at that time, correct me if

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but it was like multiple services, what's kind

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Speaker 1: of part of it? And we'll make that argument again

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Speaker 1: and where we think that it would be okay to

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Speaker 1: have a multiple service church for sure, and define what

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Speaker 1: we mean by multiple services. There's different, very different ways

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Speaker 1: to do it. So we'll go down that path. But

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Speaker 1: I want to say I want to kind of start

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Speaker 1: with a clip that I took from that episode that

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Speaker 1: we recorded. I took a clip. Paul got a clip

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Speaker 1: for me. Is the guy that produces this and or

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Speaker 1: edits this, and and I, to be fair, I don't

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Speaker 1: ever really post things on Instagram or TikTok or whatever

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Speaker 1: if it's just very boring and no one's going to

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Speaker 1: really comment on it. So admittedly I will post things

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Speaker 1: to make you think, like, wait, what did he just say?

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Speaker 1: Because I say a lot of times I say on

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Speaker 1: here that one of my purposes of this podcast is

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Speaker 1: just so we all think together, let's consider things together.

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Speaker 1: Let's because for so long, part of my testimony is

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Speaker 1: as I look back, it's fascinating that I look back

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Speaker 1: and I think I wasn't thinking through that. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: taking anything that I read in the Bible or anything

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Speaker 1: I knew about Christianity to its fullest extent. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: running it out and chasing rabbit holes and thinking where

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Speaker 1: if I think this, what does that actually mean? Or

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Speaker 1: if Jesus said that, what would the be the implications

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Speaker 1: of my life if he said that? So a lot

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Speaker 1: of you know, just like a general rule of this

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Speaker 1: podcast is I just want people to be let's think

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Speaker 1: about it. I know you believe that, but let's think

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Speaker 1: about what it means to believe that. And so the

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Speaker 1: statement I made was this, I'll just put it here

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Speaker 1: on the microphone so we get all here as grow would.

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Speaker 1: The goal of the church is not growth. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of times and a lot of people I talked to,

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Speaker 1: I asked them, what's your goal here? And they say

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Speaker 1: to grow? And is that is not the goal of

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Speaker 1: the church. It's not what the Bible says. Go therefore

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Speaker 1: and grow churches. Grow, grow one church and make it

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Speaker 1: really big and make multiple campuses and pipe in all

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Speaker 1: the messages on video. That got a lot of hate.

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Speaker 1: I mean people I had to hide a few because

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Speaker 1: of like language and just direct assaults on me. I

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Speaker 1: think I do have a little bit of an issue

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Speaker 1: because sometimes when I just pull a clip off this,

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Speaker 1: I think I might sound a little judgmental because of

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Speaker 1: the clip, and people were like, man, who are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm so sick of you judging me and my church.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, why, y'ah, I promise I'm so far from that.

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Speaker 1: I just want to think through things. And here's my caption.

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Speaker 1: What should be the main goal of a church? Comment below,

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Speaker 1: Let's think about it together. There are parentheses, there are

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Speaker 1: many subsidiary goals. Growth is definitely welcomed as a byproduct,

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Speaker 1: but not a slam dunk indicator of faithfulness. Bad churches

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Speaker 1: can grow with good marketing. And only a few people

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, I see what you mean by this.

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Speaker 1: Most people are like wrong or wrong no matter how

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Speaker 1: you look at it. Growth is the goal. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of like throwing Marshall in on this. He's

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Speaker 1: my pastor. But by no means am I saying like,

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Speaker 1: we didn't talk about this today Marshall and I. He

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Speaker 1: didn't know what I was going to go this direction,

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Speaker 1: so I'm kind of just dragging him into this. But

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Speaker 1: we're really close friends. You're my pastor, but we're also

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Speaker 1: really close friends, and so we know each other well.

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Speaker 1: I kind of when I I might have made a

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Speaker 1: mistake in that by saying go there for. And the

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Speaker 1: Bible doesn't say go there for and make big churches

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Speaker 1: insinuating Matthew twenty eight. So everyone thought my answer was

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Speaker 1: go make disciples. The church's goal is to make disciples.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's the church's goal either. And I

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Speaker 1: need to explain this because my point is, what is

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Speaker 1: the main the pinnacle, the main focus point, what is

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Speaker 1: the why behind church? And I think about it in

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Speaker 1: terms of when I was playing music or anything I've done.

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Speaker 1: I want to think about what's the why? Why? Why

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Speaker 1: are we doing this? And of course growing a church

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Speaker 1: is a goal. Of course, making disciples is a goal.

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Speaker 1: When you planted a mais when you were sent out.

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Speaker 1: If they if they would have said, Marshall, what's the

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Speaker 1: main your main focus? The main goal of a mais

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Speaker 1: you have not you would not have said numerical growth. No, no,

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Speaker 1: And so one person, Charlene with a s H. I

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Speaker 1: think there were a few, but one person said, the

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Speaker 1: main goal of a church is to glorify God. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, amen. See the idea that I wanted

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Speaker 1: I want people to think about is if your main

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Speaker 1: goal is to glorify God, then then one of your

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Speaker 1: main purposes to do that is to be faithful in it,

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Speaker 1: to be faithful, and and a good byproduct is that

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Speaker 1: God will grow the church through faithfulness and that will

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Speaker 1: glorify Him. So it's man centered. It's horizontal centered ideas

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Speaker 1: versus vertical centered ideas. I had this, had this epiphany

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Speaker 1: on last Saturday as I was kind of thinking through

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Speaker 1: this and I was looking at a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people are really upset with me with

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Speaker 1: saying that the goal is not to grow because they're

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Speaker 1: just like, you're such an idiot. You know, why would

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Speaker 1: you not want to grow a church? Anything that's good

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Speaker 1: grows in this world? You know. I understand all that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not from planet Mars here. But I had this

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Speaker 1: epiphany when I was watching college game Day and Nick Saban,

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Speaker 1: former head coach of Alabama, was talking and he said

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Speaker 1: he said, was they were talking about Florida State and

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Speaker 1: how bad they're doing, and they were like, what happens

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Speaker 1: to a school A team like to state, how does

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Speaker 1: the coach lose the team? And he said, well, I

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Speaker 1: remember in my old days when I was a transactional

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Speaker 1: coach and my goal was winning and everything revolved around

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Speaker 1: winning and losing, and I started to lose my team

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Speaker 1: because of that until I learned to be a transformational coach.

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Speaker 1: He said. This happened in nineteen ninety eight for him.

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Speaker 1: He became a transformational coach and instead of winning and

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Speaker 1: losing as the goal, the goal, instead of outcomes is

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Speaker 1: the goal. Instead, it was the process. It was transforming men,

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Speaker 1: modeling someone that they would want to emulate and be

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Speaker 1: like so that they could succeed not just in the

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Speaker 1: game or the season, but in life as young men,

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Speaker 1: and they could grow as young men and be someone

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Speaker 1: that was equipped for all the suffering and afflictions that

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Speaker 1: if brought. And when he did that and focused one

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Speaker 1: play at a time on the process based on virtue

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Speaker 1: and character that he set forth as the coach, they

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Speaker 1: started winning, and they started winning a lot. And I thought, man,

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Speaker 1: that is such such a good example of the church.

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Speaker 1: Because if the pastor goes in and says I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to grow the church numerically, then he

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Speaker 1: will if that is the top pinnacle goal, he will

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Speaker 1: sacrifice faithfulness for marketing, for topical sermons that attract people,

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Speaker 1: for a new building. Someone really close to me right

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Speaker 1: now is in a church that is in debt. They're

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Speaker 1: losing members, and they have this advisory board that's coming

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Speaker 1: in saying, in order to stop the leak, we need

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Speaker 1: to build a new sanctuary that attracts more people, that

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Speaker 1: attracts younger people, because sanctuary kind of looks old, and

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Speaker 1: then that'll put us in more debt, but that that'll grow.

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Speaker 1: That's an example of a church with the main priority

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Speaker 1: is grow. Anyway, I'm kind of rambling now, but this

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Speaker 1: is my point. I'm looking at through all these comments

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Speaker 1: and as many people as we're really upset with me,

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Speaker 1: I want them to know that. Of course, I think

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Speaker 1: growth is a great thing for a church. I hope

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Speaker 1: a Maya's grows.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we talked about it when we started the

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Speaker 2: church with all of our members, of you know, we

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Speaker 2: would love for the Lord to add to our numbers,

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Speaker 2: but that's not the primary goal. But we also were

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Speaker 2: very clear with all of our members. If we're going

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Speaker 2: to celebrate the Lord growing the church, we need to

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Speaker 2: be just as excited at the church down the streets

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Speaker 2: growing and we're not, because that's still Kingdom growth. And

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Speaker 2: if that's really what we want, then we're going to

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Speaker 2: celebrate that. Even if we stay at whatever number we're at,

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Speaker 2: or you know, we only grow by a couple people

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Speaker 2: and they're grown by one hundreds, it's we're gonna We're

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Speaker 2: gonna celebrate what the Lord's doing there because that's the

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Speaker 2: growth we want. So it's not anti growth, it's it's

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Speaker 2: it's it's pro positive growth spiritually, which then leads to

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Speaker 2: numerical growth. But also if people are growing spiritually, it

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Speaker 2: makes some of the things that we're arguing for easier

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Speaker 2: and kind of goes against some of the comments against

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Speaker 2: why it's harder to do some of the things we

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Speaker 2: were pushing for.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely. I think a lot of this for

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Speaker 1: me too, comes as I travel and I hear people

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Speaker 1: tell me that their goal is numerical growth. And I've

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Speaker 1: also had I've heard the argument several times that I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: look how big this church is. You can't deny the

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Speaker 1: Lord has his hand on this. And I always think, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can deny it because the Lord doesn't have his

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Speaker 1: hand on Taylor Swift concerts, but those are growing numerically

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Speaker 1: just really good marketing. I think you said that this

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Speaker 1: is really good marketing.

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Speaker 2: So I don't remember how the stuff I said.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know either. Anyway, I think that's what

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Speaker 1: this where this conversation begins. And once again, this is

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Speaker 1: just this is not calling out anyone specific at all. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is just to think through things. If a pastor

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Speaker 1: was called to shepherd a flock of older people in

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Speaker 1: a small church in a small town and he was

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Speaker 1: just kind of ushering them into glory, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think and he was faithful in his preaching, he was

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Speaker 1: faithful in his in his philosophy of church. I don't

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Speaker 1: think anyone look and go failing. That guy's failing because

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Speaker 1: he's not numerically growing. And I think about those guys

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Speaker 1: a lot. And there's a lot of those guys out there,

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Speaker 1: some of them listening to this podcast that are just

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Speaker 1: in very small churches that numerically on paper that they

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Speaker 1: don't they don't stand up, they don't, they wouldn't look

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Speaker 1: like you would want to replicate that idea. But these

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Speaker 1: are faithful men. So yeah, so that's the kind of

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Speaker 1: the beginning, and I think we should get we should

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Speaker 1: specifically get into some of these comments on the last

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Speaker 1: video talking about multiple services. And here's the idea behind that.

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Speaker 1: Marshall and I talked about how replicating identical services on

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Speaker 1: a Sunday I guess on Saturday night too, Sunday night

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Speaker 1: as well, starts to split the family up. Starts to

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Speaker 1: split the body up so much so that you have

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Speaker 1: people attending church that don't know a fellow brother or

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Speaker 1: sister that's in the same body that attends the nine

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Speaker 1: am service and you attend eleven and you've never even

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Speaker 1: known them. And so, in a nutshell, that's one of

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Speaker 1: the problems of splitting up these services. Another problem is

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Speaker 1: the Bible, UH is encouraging us to to grow multiple churches,

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Speaker 1: not multiple services. So in the idea of a mais

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Speaker 1: the church we attend, it was it was an extension.

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Speaker 1: It was we were sent out from another church that

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Speaker 1: was growing. And instead of that one church being all

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Speaker 1: about itself, UH, it's sit down and replicated another church,

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Speaker 1: not another campus, not an identical name, not piping in

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Speaker 1: the message through a video monitor, but it's a completely

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Speaker 1: autonomous church. A mais sent out from another one that

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Speaker 1: was growing. Do you want to start anywhere particular with

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Speaker 1: these comments, because there's some good ones on here and

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Speaker 1: there's some good things to think about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I'll say this up front. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with the comments. But we said this

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Speaker 2: last time, but I think some people maybe didn't catch it.

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Speaker 2: This is not a core issue for us. So if somebody,

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Speaker 2: if somebody were to, you know, call me and say, hey,

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Speaker 2: look in the church in the town I'm in. There's

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Speaker 2: this church that preaches the gospel faithfully every week, but

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Speaker 2: they got three services. And I know you you're all

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Speaker 2: about one service. And the only two churches in town

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Speaker 2: that I can find that are close to me that

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Speaker 2: have one service. You know, I think they preach the

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Speaker 2: gospel most of the time, but maybe not all the time.

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Speaker 2: And you know the pastor, you know, last Sunday, he

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Speaker 2: really didn't even open his Bible. I was really encouraged

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Speaker 2: by the message, but he didn't even what it was Bible.

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Speaker 2: I would say, go to the three service church immediately.

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Speaker 2: So this is not like a don't ever touch a

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Speaker 2: church that has multiple services for me. This is a

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Speaker 2: this is a find a church that preaches the gospel

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Speaker 2: and will hold you accountable to your profession of faith.

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Speaker 2: But the argument is is if the church is doing that, well,

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Speaker 2: there's a way they can do it without having multiple services.

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Speaker 2: And so I'm kind of taking or we're taking the

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Speaker 2: step after that. Yes, if if somebody's going to say

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Speaker 2: the only church in town that preaches a gospel has

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Speaker 2: four services, I'm going to always tell you to go

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Speaker 2: to that church. You need to be hearing the gospel,

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Speaker 2: not somebody's opinions on stuff. And so this is not well,

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Speaker 2: just because it's got one service it's a better church.

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Speaker 2: That's not always true. And with that being said, we're

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Speaker 2: also not saying, or at least I'm not saying smaller

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Speaker 2: means better right at always in theory that's true, But

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Speaker 2: smaller does not always mean better. Smaller does not always

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Speaker 2: mean less problems. I got a friend who is a

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Speaker 2: member of a church and they're going through some really

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Speaker 2: rough stuff right now and they only have about fifty members.

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Speaker 2: And so it's not smaller means better church. It's it's

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Speaker 2: it's it's the same issue actually in both sizes, is

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Speaker 2: what's the spirituality happening there? What's the what's the uh,

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Speaker 2: the discipleship look like, what's the faithfulness to Jesus look like?

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Speaker 2: In all the members? And so this this discussion around

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Speaker 2: multiple services or one service really isn't specifically answering just

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Speaker 2: that question, because it's there's probably four or five layers

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Speaker 2: underneath that question that have to be answered first, right,

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Speaker 2: because you won't go to the scriptures and find something says, look,

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Speaker 2: you're only supposed to have one service that versus not there.

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Speaker 2: And so what you have to do whenever you come

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Speaker 2: to a situation like that where you're trying to think

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Speaker 2: of what's the Bible say about this issue? Because it

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Speaker 2: doesn't say a specific verse or passage on this issue,

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Speaker 2: you have to go, Okay, what's what are the underlying

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Speaker 2: things under there? So for this issue, it's well, what

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Speaker 2: does the Bible say the church is? What does the

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Speaker 2: Bible say the church does? What does the Bible say

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Speaker 2: I'm supposed to do as a what does what does

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Speaker 2: the Bible expect of me as somebody who is a

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Speaker 2: member of a church? And when you answer those questions,

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Speaker 2: the understanding of one service seems to make the most

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Speaker 2: sense based on those things. So one of the things

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Speaker 2: I noticed in all the comments that we got on

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Speaker 2: that video, which I actually enjoyed reading those comments, even

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Speaker 2: the ones that disagreed with us, because it made me

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Speaker 2: think about my own position. Right, So the best way

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Speaker 2: you can articulate your position is when you understand why

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Speaker 2: people disagree with it, because it forces you to think

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Speaker 2: through it. And so even in reading the comments a

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Speaker 2: couple of days ago, I was having to think through, Okay,

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Speaker 2: well how would I think through that? Or what is

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Speaker 2: my answer to that? But in reading all the comments,

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Speaker 2: not one of them said well, here's what the Bible

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Speaker 2: says about this, and why I think multiple services are Okay,

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Speaker 2: it was all experiential stuff. Well, here's my situation, so

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Speaker 2: therefore multi services have to be right, or here's what's happened,

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Speaker 2: so multiple services have to be right. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying we have to ignore our situations in our circumstances,

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Speaker 2: because those are things we have to think through and

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Speaker 2: address and figure out how to navigate life around those.

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Speaker 2: But those shouldn't be the main reason and why we say,

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Speaker 2: well this makes it right? Is scripture supporting what you're

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Speaker 2: saying or is it just convenient for you? So I'll

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Speaker 2: say all that before going specifically into comments, because I

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Speaker 2: think those there are some helpful things to think through.

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Speaker 2: Of one, we're not saying just because you're a member

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Speaker 2: of a church that might have multiple services, or maybe

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Speaker 2: you're a pastor of a church as multiple services, you're

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Speaker 2: lesser than or you're completely ignorant of everything that the

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Speaker 2: Bible says on these issues.

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Speaker 1: We know that's not true. Both of us have dear

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Speaker 1: brothers that have multiple services. We brought this up last time,

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Speaker 1: but everyone on this podcast knows Chad the multiple services.

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Speaker 1: I'm literally preaching there in two weeks, and he is

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Speaker 1: a faithful brother seeking to glorify God as the number

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Speaker 1: one goal of the church. Then that's why I think

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Speaker 1: that's such an important question, is what is the main

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Speaker 1: goal of the church? And if you could answer by

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Speaker 1: glorifying God, then then we can understand different whys behind

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Speaker 1: the multiple services.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, I you know, as I travel, I encounter a

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Speaker 1: lot of different people. I usually tell you this, Marshall,

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Speaker 1: and one problem I see is churches that are that

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Speaker 1: have grown and don't know what to do. There are

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Speaker 1: four services in and people are still coming and they

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Speaker 1: don't know what to do. And when that happens some

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Speaker 1: of these wives you were talking about get answered the

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Speaker 1: structure of the church itself. Are you the only pastor

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Speaker 1: Usually the answer is yes. Who have you been discipling

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Speaker 1: or trying to raise up in leadership? Nobody in seventeen years.

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Speaker 1: You know that is a huge problem because if you

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Speaker 1: of seventeen years of ministry, say, if you've been raising

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Speaker 1: up young men and you're at your fourth service and

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Speaker 1: you're busting at the seams, at some point you say,

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Speaker 1: this kid right here is ready. He's twenty seven years old,

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Speaker 1: he's been and older for me for seven years, he's

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Speaker 1: been on staff for five whatever, and he's ready to

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Speaker 1: go start a church over here in this area. And

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Speaker 1: that's going to help. We're going to be able to

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Speaker 1: send some people out from that fourth service. And so

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Speaker 1: these are, just like you said, things to think through.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of times when there's not a plan,

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Speaker 1: that's an indication that the main goal was numerical growth.

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Speaker 1: And the thruth is when you get there, sometimes you

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Speaker 1: look back and go, now that I've gotten my goal,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to do with it because it's

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Speaker 1: not sustainable.

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Speaker 2: And there are situations where multiple services might actually be

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Speaker 2: necessary in the moment, but they should be temporary of course.

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Speaker 2: So for example, that just as we go talking to

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Speaker 2: somebody and they reminded me, I knew about this a

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Speaker 2: couple of years ago. I just completely forgot about it.

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Speaker 2: There was a church in New York that right after

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Speaker 2: nine to eleven, like everybody with the church that Sunday

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Speaker 2: after that, that church all was averaging about seven to

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Speaker 2: eight hundred people on a Sunday. That Sunday morning after

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Speaker 2: nine to eleven, over three thousand people showed up. And

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Speaker 2: so they made the split decision in that moment, Hey,

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Speaker 2: we're going to add two services to this thing and

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Speaker 2: try to figure this out. And they had never done

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Speaker 2: multiple services before, so they were trying to, you know,

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Speaker 2: on the learn on the fly. But it was so

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Speaker 2: they could share the gospel with all those for coming

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Speaker 2: who had questions about what God was doing and how

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Speaker 2: he was involved in all this and how they should

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Speaker 2: rightly think about it. And I wouldn't say that church

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Speaker 2: was in sin for doing that. I think that's an

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Speaker 2: excellent idea. If something like that happened to us, Like

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Speaker 2: you know, our room can only see maybe three fifty max.

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Speaker 2: If we had fifteen hundred people show up on a

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Speaker 2: random Sunday, we wouldn't say sorry, we only got room

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Speaker 2: for like three fifty and then we got some standing

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Speaker 2: area for another fifty of you the rest make it

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Speaker 2: early next week. We probably would throw a quick second

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Speaker 2: service in there and try to figure it out third

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Speaker 2: if we needed to. But then the next week we'd

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Speaker 2: be figuring out what's the long term plan. This is

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Speaker 2: not sustainable. We're not sticking at three services. What can

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Speaker 2: we do?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 2: Or you know, your church building burns down and the

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Speaker 2: only place you can meet is the community center down

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Speaker 2: the street, but they are in town, but they can't

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Speaker 2: see it as much as you used to. So you

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Speaker 2: have to while the church is being rebuilt from the fire,

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Speaker 2: you have to go to multiple services for eight months.

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Speaker 2: I would strongly encourage a church to do that. So again,

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Speaker 2: this is not multiple services are evil and are from

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Speaker 2: Satan himself. This is just what based on what Scripture

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Speaker 2: saying the church is supposed to do and be, which

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Speaker 2: are these two examples promotes that the best and that's

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Speaker 2: why I would say one service does and this. So

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Speaker 2: this kind of goes a little bit to the comments.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the comments were specifically addressing Sunday morning.

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Speaker 2: And while I would say Sunday morning is the most

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Speaker 2: important thing the church does together, it's not the only

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Speaker 2: thing the church does together. And so there's a sense

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Speaker 2: of like, well, if I can't get there on Sunday morning,

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Speaker 2: you're hindering me from being there on Sunday morning because

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Speaker 2: my job or something which I know you talked about

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Speaker 2: in the last episode, which we can talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit more about that. But the church itself is bigger

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Speaker 2: than Sunday morning, and so again that your understanding of

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Speaker 2: the church will influence how you think through your Sunday

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Speaker 2: morning attendance. Now, you should not neglect gathering, and I

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Speaker 2: think that is talking about Sunday morning when the church gathers.

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Speaker 2: But if somebody only came on Sunday morning and never

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Speaker 2: got together with other church members, never was having church

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Speaker 2: members in their home, never going into other church members' homes,

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Speaker 2: never doing things with other church members outside of Sunday morning,

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Speaker 2: I would say that's a problem. That's not good. And

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Speaker 2: so this is not just a Sunday morning service issue.

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Speaker 2: This again goes back to who is the church and

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Speaker 2: what is the church supposed to do? Yes, in the

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Speaker 2: world large evangelize share the Gospel with anybody who will

433
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: listen to you. But the church also there's more instructions

434
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 2: about what the church are supposed to do with each

435
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 2: other in scripture than there's what we're supposed to be

436
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 2: outside of the church. And so it's how are you

437
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: able to do those things faithfully in the church that

438
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: you're in. And the reason that multiple services comes in

439
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: is because multiple services tend to mean much larger churches,

440
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 2: which again and of itself, does not mean it's sinful,

441
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 2: but it makes some of those things really difficult that

442
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 2: we know we're supposed to do according to scripture, and

443
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 2: so one service kind of prevents that. Now you can say, well, well,

444
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 2: our church meets in a stadium that can see twelve

445
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 2: thousand people, so you're say, if we have one service,

446
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 2: that would be good. No, that's why we also said

447
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 2: one service doesn't mean automatically better situation, and I know

448
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: of a church that does that. So that's the reason why.

449
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: Example, so a quick word here from our sponsor at shopify.

450
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452
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453
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454
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455
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456
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457
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458
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459
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460
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461
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462
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463
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464
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465
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466
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467
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470
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472
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473
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474
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,360
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475
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: selling today Shopify dot com slash granger. Okay, so a

476
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: big issue we had, I think was the people saying

477
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: that their jobs didn't align with the time. What are

478
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this? Got Yes, I did. I did

479
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: bring it up in the last podcast. What are your

480
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: thoughts on this?

481
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? So when I'll say this, at our church, we

482
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 2: have one service, we push for one service. We have firemen,

483
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: police officers, nurses, and then a couple other jobs that

484
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: require people to be away on some Sundays. So it's

485
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: not like our church is only filled with people who

486
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: have nothing to do on Sunday morning except come to church.

487
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: But again to what we were saying earlier of what is

488
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 2: the church supposed to do and be for those in

489
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 2: those situations, our interactions with them are different. So one,

490
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 2: we've encouraged them and they've all been able to do

491
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 2: this to my knowledge, Yeah, all of them have been

492
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 2: able to do this. None of them miss every Sunday

493
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: every month. They've been able to work it out with

494
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: their job where they can at least hit one or

495
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 2: two Sundays a month. So for some people who say,

496
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: my job will never let me take a Sunday off.

497
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: I really want to push against that. I don't know

498
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: if that's true in most jobs, and if it is,

499
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: then that's when I would encourage somebody to maybe consider

500
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: a different job, not a different career, but maybe just

501
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: a different job. And that doesn't mean quit today, and

502
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: hopefully you'll find something that just means start thinking through it.

503
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: Because when we had a guy joined who was working

504
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: every Sunday, could not be there every Sunday, and we

505
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: pushed on him gently and encouraged him, showed him the

506
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: importance of being there on Sunday mornings. And after a

507
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: couple of months of talking to his boss and kind

508
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 2: of working things out. Now it required him to get

509
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: creative and stuff like that, he came to us said, hey,

510
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: I can make two Sundays a month, and we're like,

511
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: praise the Lord, that's amazing, Like that's great. Occasionally there's

512
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 2: a random month where he has to work three Sundays,

513
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: but he did everything he could to make it to

514
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: where he could attend sometimes. But in those situations, we

515
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: know all the people who are in those situations, and

516
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: so the pastors are regularly reaching out to them. How

517
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: are you personally doing they'll tell us, hey, this month,

518
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 2: you know, I can't come to the first two Sundays,

519
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: but I'll be there on the second too, So just

520
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: so you know, you'll see my family, you won't see me.

521
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: So they're letting us know so we know how to

522
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: be praying for them, how to care for their families

523
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: during those times. Just this past Sunday, saw the wife

524
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: and kids of one of our members who works on

525
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: some Sundays and just said, hey, how's he doing? You know,

526
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: how's work going. Was able to encourage them while they

527
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: were here with us. So one if somebody were to

528
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: say there's never a Sunday where I'm available, I would

529
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: either say one, then start thinking through what it could

530
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: look like months from now, after making some decisions about

531
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: maybe a different job and not necessarily different career, but

532
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 2: maybe a different job. But have you really exhausted all

533
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: the opportunities to ask for at least a couple Sundays

534
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 2: off to make it work some But that being said,

535
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: all of our members who do have that situation where

536
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: they work on Sunday mornings and they're limited on how

537
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: often they can be on Sunday mornings, they really prioritize

538
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: the other things. We encourage it. They come to our members' meetings,

539
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: they're coming to Wednesday night Bible study, they're having people

540
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: in their homes for meals. They're trying to go into

541
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 2: other people's homes for meals. The guy was just talking

542
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: about he goes to lunch regularly with guys during the

543
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: week because his week schedule is a little more flexible

544
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: than other guys, so he works around their schedule. So

545
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: he's meeting with them so that the church knows how

546
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: and he knows the church. So yes, he misses a

547
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 2: couple Sundays every month, but he's still actively involved in

548
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: the church. If we had to bring him up at

549
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: a members meeting to say, hey, he's he's got a

550
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 2: health situation, so please be praying for him, we wouldn't

551
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: say his name, and most people go who's that. They

552
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: would all go, oh, yeah, I know, his work schedule

553
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: is really difficult for him to be on Sundays. But man,

554
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: that guy's always involved doing stuff. He's had a lot

555
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: of people over, He's got to know a lot of guys,

556
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: and so there's a sense of he still feels like

557
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: part of the church even though he's not there on

558
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: Sunday mornings because of his intentionality with getting to know

559
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: members and letting members get to know him. But then

560
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: he does whatever he can to be there on Sunday mornings.

561
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 2: So he never has a Sunday morning off of work

562
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: and goes, man, today is just gonna be a nice day.

563
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: He will get up and he will come to work

564
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: and say this is important for me.

565
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: And so what you've done, though, is you've described in

566
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: environment where pastors are in the lives of the members,

567
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: the members are in the lives of the members. There

568
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: is direct communication with all of this, and there is

569
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: there's thoughtful intention behind the person who has the job

570
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: that's keeping them away a little bit.

571
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: And I'm thankful for those individuals who are in specifically

572
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 2: the medical field or law enforcement who we need them

573
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: working on Sunday mornings.

574
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

575
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: Right, Like my third our third child, our son Ezekiel

576
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: here no Soaiah, he was born around ten thirty in

577
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: the morning on a Sunday morning. We weren't in the

578
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: labor and delivery room, going what are you guys doing here?

579
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: You're supposed to be at church, Like we were thankful

580
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 2: they were there and we were there, but you know,

581
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 2: if if that had been one of our members, you know,

582
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: working in labor and delivery delivery, we would want them

583
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: to be there to care for people. But at the

584
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: same time as their pastors, we would be saying, have

585
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: you talked to your supervisors about seeing if there's some

586
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 2: Sundays you can get off? We recognize you can't do

587
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: every Sunday and we need people in the medical field working,

588
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 2: but can you get one Sunday off a month? And

589
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 2: then what are you doing outside of Sunday mornings with

590
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 2: the church to ensure that you're still connected to the church.

591
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: And so what's really cool is we for the members

592
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: that we do have, who are you know, we have

593
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: probably like three or four cops in the church, maybe more, no,

594
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 2: three or four, a few nurses, and then against some

595
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: of those two firemen and some other people in jobs

596
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: that require them to be away on some Sundays. But

597
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: when those people are missing on Sundays, there's other members

598
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: calling them. Hey, you know, we record our sermons, so

599
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: they'll listen. All those people will listen to the sermons

600
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: as soon as they can, but we'll have people reach out, hey,

601
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: you know, how do the sermon encourage you? What do

602
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: you think about the third point that was brought up

603
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: in the sermon? It made me think about that situation

604
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 2: talked about a couple of weeks ago. How do you

605
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: think that connects to your situation? And so they're actually

606
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 2: talking about the sermon with other members, so they're they're

607
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: living life together as I think scripture would call them to,

608
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 2: even though they can't be there every single Sunday morning.

609
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 2: And then there's some people who would claim that their

610
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: job requires them work every Sunday morning, but if you

611
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: really do some digging, it doesn't. So we had we

612
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: had a guy visit the church and he came in

613
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: he said, Hey, I love this church, but this is

614
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 2: like the only Sunday I'm off this year. But I

615
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: really want a place for my family. And we said, oh, man,

616
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: you should really be in church, Like what what's preventing you?

617
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 2: And the way he described his job, we thought, there's

618
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: no way that that job requires you to be there

619
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 2: every Sunday. And so after meeting with them a few times,

620
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: he finally said, well, they don't require me to be there,

621
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: but I just get a lot of work done on

622
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 2: Sundays because nobody else is there, so I'm able to

623
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: focus really intently. I just get a lot done. And

624
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 2: we said, well, that's that's not that's very different than

625
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 2: than the than the cop who has to work on

626
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: Sunday mornings, or the labor and deliver nurse who has

627
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: to work on Sunday mornings. And so sometimes it's really

628
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: digging in is does this job actually require me to

629
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: be here on Sunday mornings? And then that's when you

630
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 2: start asking questions of if that's true, does that mean

631
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: every Sunday morning or is there a way I can

632
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: work around it. So another example, this was from the

633
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: last church I was at. The last church I was in,

634
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: there was somebody who did need to work on Sunday mornings.

635
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 2: She was a nurse, but the reason she had to

636
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 2: work every single Sunday morning was because she was requesting

637
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 2: Friday nights and Saturday Saturday nights off. And if she'd

638
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 2: only taken two of those a month, she could have

639
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 2: replaced them, replaced those Sunday mornings with those two. And

640
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 2: so there is showing the priority. I'd rather have my

641
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: Friday nights and my Saturday nights, then two Sunday mornings.

642
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: Last week was the priority? Yeah?

643
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I think it's extremely rare for somebody

644
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 2: to be in a position where their job requires them

645
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 2: and there is appbsolutely no way they can work it

646
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: out to where they could make one or two service

647
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: Sunday services a month. And you know, I thought I

648
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 2: saw a lot of comments, you know with third shifts,

649
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 2: you know, all that kind of stuff. We have two

650
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: guys in our church who do that, and they come

651
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 2: into church exhausted on Sunday mornings, but they and then

652
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 2: they go home and they go straight to sleep. But

653
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 2: both of them talk about how important it is for

654
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: them to be there, like but I gotta be and really,

655
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: over time they said, like this is kind of a

656
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: nice way to end my shift, like showing up here, yeah,

657
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: and finishing with people of God and worshiping and so

658
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 2: and again. If they said, but you're our service at

659
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 2: ten am, they said, your service at ten am, I

660
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 2: don't get off till nine thirty. There's no way how

661
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: to make it in time. But if y'all at ten thirty,

662
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: I might be able to make it. We would say, well,

663
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 2: you being with the gathered church is so important, you

664
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 2: don't need to come to our church like we have

665
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 2: five other churches in town that we would happily send

666
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 2: you to. I know these three meet at ten thirty.

667
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: We would encourage you to go there. And so this

668
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 2: goes to the question about growth earlier too, is we

669
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: have no problem encouraging people to go to churches closer

670
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: to where they live. So every Sunday we'll meet somebody

671
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: because I stand at the doors, try to greet as

672
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 2: many people as I can as they're leaving or before service,

673
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: as they come in. And every time it's a first

674
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: time visitor, I'll say, I'll ask how do you hear

675
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 2: about us? And then two I'll ask, well, where do

676
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: you live? And if somebody says, oh, I live in

677
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 2: Cedar Park, I'll say, oh, have you tried out this church?

678
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: And this church and this church all use three churches

679
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: that I know are either in Cedar Park or between

680
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 2: them and us that are much closer, faithfully preaching the gospel,

681
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: like minded. And if they say no, I'll say, look,

682
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: we're not saying you can't come here, but it would

683
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: be really beneficial for you if you go to this church,

684
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 2: because it sounds like this church is five minutes from

685
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 2: where you live, and we're thirty five minutes from where

686
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: you live. So if you decide to come here, we're

687
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 2: not going to tell you no, but I think you

688
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 2: should at least go check out a service over here.

689
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 2: So that's not me saying, hey, I don't want this

690
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: church to grow. That's me saying, what's going to be

691
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 2: most beneficial for your soul to be at a church

692
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: that's close to you. Now, if they're coming from somewhere

693
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 2: where I can't think of any solid church between them

694
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 2: and us, I'll be like, look, come here and maybe

695
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: one day we can plan a church closer to you.

696
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: That Brandon said, a church that's alive is worse to drive.

697
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 2: That's right, That's exactly right. It's a Britain thing to say.

698
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: So you're not advocating for people to go, well, hey,

699
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: that church has a five o'clock message, so I'm just

700
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 1: going to go to that. But you're saying healthy churches.

701
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: Of the healthy churches, let's choose one that's closer to

702
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: your house and has a better time, because I think

703
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: that's the people's biggest argument was, man, I would rather

704
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 1: go to this church, the mega church down the road,

705
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: because they have four services, and of the four, I

706
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: could always find one that fits my schedule. Yeah, I

707
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: was smiling earlier because thinking about the Jewish religion, when

708
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: they have their Sabbath, they give everything up, they stop everything,

709
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: but they still expect to be served on by the

710
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: people that aren't in their faith. And so it's interesting

711
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: the contrast between you at the hospital with Hoseiah and

712
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: if that was a Jewish baby, it would be born,

713
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: and they would they wouldn't think twice about the people

714
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: working the third shift or the medical field. But in

715
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: our faith, it's it's always about the heart. Jesus was

716
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: always about the heart of the people. Where is your heart,

717
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: What's what's the process, the transformational process, not the outcome.

718
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: And the Jewish religion is always about the outcome. It's

719
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: you have to you have to block off the Sabbath,

720
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: and then we're still hope that our power grid stays on,

721
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: that non Jewish people are working, and we hope that,

722
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: you know, the the food is still being cooked by

723
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: non Jewish people, and we hope that the hospitals are

724
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: opened by non Jewish people. It's very interesting. I remember

725
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: one time, that's not just Jewish people too, No, it's not,

726
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: it's not. That was just fresh on my mind.

727
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: Yeahs, I've seen that.

728
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: But I remember one time I was in a city

729
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: early on a Sunday downstairs in the hotel. I was

730
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: going to preach that morning, and I was doing the

731
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: final prep looking at my manuscript. It was like six

732
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning at the lobby of a hotel

733
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: and no one was down there, And I remember that

734
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: I heard a ding and the elevator opened and all

735
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: these kids come out with their softball or baseball uniforms,

736
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: and all the parents like, Hey, grab a sausage biscuit

737
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: and orne juice, and let's get out there. We got

738
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: to hurry. And I do have a problem with that.

739
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: I do.

740
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: Uh. You know, when we talk about people who work

741
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: in the third shift and having jobs and needing to

742
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: talk with their boss, there's so much nuance to that,

743
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: and it's about the heart. But but just I have

744
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: so much If you're going to actually miss church completely

745
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: because it's a baseball game for a ten year old,

746
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I just have a problem with that.

747
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do too.

748
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: Is there a question? We haven't even got to sing

749
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: a single one yet, But you know, the first one

750
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm looking at is I respectfully disagree with y'all on

751
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: the multiple service thing. We don't know. We don't have

752
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: to to know all two thousand people that attend the

753
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: same church, is the argument. This is from Kimbers at

754
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: Kimber's twelve thirty eight. To me, it's important to have

755
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: small groups where you get to know each other, build

756
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: each other up, and call out sin where needed. I

757
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:48,359
Speaker 1: find your point nitpicking when we are looking for a church.

758
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: This is a minor issue. This is this is this

759
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: is a great comment because it's so common. That is

760
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: a very common. In fact, a lot of people listening

761
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: right now probably go, yeah, that's what I was saying. These

762
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: guys are just nitpicking. These guys are overthinking it. I

763
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: get called out for that all the time. You're just

764
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: overthinking things, man. So what do you say to that?

765
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: What do you say to we don't have to know

766
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: all two thousand people that attend the same church. That's

767
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 1: why it's important to have small groups to know each other,

768
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: build each other, build each other up, and call each

769
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: other out. We're needed. And there's three comments that agree

770
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: with them.

771
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, So to that, I would say, you don't need

772
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 2: to know all two thousand members equally. But you do

773
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: need to know all two thousand members. If you're going

774
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 2: to have two thousand, you need to know because again,

775
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 2: so this is where you know, our church has two thousands.

776
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: So we lean on small groups to get to know

777
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 2: each other. Okay, I'm not anti small groups. I mean

778
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 2: we don't have them in our churches, but you know,

779
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 2: I'm not anti them. I think churches are fine to

780
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: have them, but usually they're put in place to kind

781
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: of force community. And the concern that I have with

782
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: small groups when it's to force community. So this is

783
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 2: how you can know that you're connected to the church

784
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: because you know these people that are in your small group.

785
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: That's a that's a program of the church that is

786
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 2: meant to build community. And to me, that's ironic because

787
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 2: the Bible has already given you something to have community,

788
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 2: and that's the church. So that's saying the picture that

789
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 2: the Scripture's given us of the church wasn't enough. So

790
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 2: now I need this one ministry to make me feel connected.

791
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: And that's so that might sound nitpicky because some people

792
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: will say, well, now you're saying I can't you know,

793
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: be friends with a smaller group of people in my church.

794
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 2: That's not true. I'm closer to some members than I

795
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: am to others. But I know all of our members.

796
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 2: I know where all of our and this is as

797
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: a pastor, I know we're all If our members are

798
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 2: open with us and and being honest with us, then

799
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 2: I know where all of our members struggle and how

800
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 2: I can help pastor and shepherd them well. And we

801
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: have we have four pastors right now for you know,

802
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: I'm a staff pastor. We have three non staff pastors,

803
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 2: but they each know member all the members as well.

804
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: But that means Steven will know some members better than

805
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: I do. So this is where multiple pastors is helpful. Right,

806
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: I'll know them, I might know some things are going through,

807
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: I'll know their life situation. I'll know how to pray

808
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: for them and care for them as one of their pastors.

809
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: But Steven might have a better relationship with them, and

810
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 2: he might be able to say, so, here's some updates

811
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 2: on what's going on, here's this, and so that that

812
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: allows us to care for them well. And so when

813
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 2: you when somebody says, well, you know, there's no way

814
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: to really know two thousands, so and we there's no

815
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: way to know two thousands. So therefore we don't have

816
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: to know two thousand. I just don't see that in scripture.

817
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: Like I see when Paul and First Corinthians is talking

818
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 2: about disciplining somebody out of the church. He doesn't say, Hey,

819
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 2: those of you in the church who know this guy,

820
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: can you let the other people know why he shouldn't

821
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: be a part of the church. He talks to the

822
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 2: whole church and says, this isn't like y'all are all

823
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 2: putting up with this and you shouldn't be. You need

824
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 2: to remove him from your mist because he's not acting

825
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: like a Christian. He's doing things even non Christians would

826
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 2: be ashamed of and look down on, and you're just

827
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 2: letting him be here. So there's a sense of this

828
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 2: church knew who this guy was. And then you know,

829
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 2: and picking elders, the church knows who its leadership is.

830
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 2: And so with that, you said, you have four elders,

831
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 2: four pastors.

832
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: What is the primary function of the pastor?

833
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So in our MEMBERSIP class, we talk about the

834
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 2: pastor has the three main rules are ministry of the word, prayer,

835
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 2: and soul care. So pastors, oversee, the teaching doesn't mean

836
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 2: the pastors are the only ones doing the teaching. So

837
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 2: we have guys, I mean, you've preached before, you've taught

838
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: a devotional for us. We have other guys in the

839
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: church who have taught devotionals and preached for us. So

840
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 2: we're not the only ones doing the teaching. But we

841
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: oversee it, so we know who's going to be teaching.

842
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 2: When we've approved them as a teacher, we know what

843
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: they're going to be teaching because we feel like we're

844
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: held responsible for what's going to get taught. Now, ultimately,

845
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 2: the church itself is responsible. Paul mentions this in Galatians

846
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: one when he rebukes false teaching coming to the church,

847
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 2: which again I think argues the whole church needs to

848
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: be involved in this. Paul rebukes the entire church for

849
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 2: letting false teaching come in and persist. Now, the elders,

850
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 2: the pastors are the front lines of it. But elders

851
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 2: pastors are fallible men who make mistakes and can be

852
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 2: deceived themselves, and so false teaching could get past them.

853
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: And that's why Paul says to the church, this is

854
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: on you. And then even the letters that John that

855
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 2: are given to the seven churches in the book Revelation,

856
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 2: they're addressed to the church, so all the people in

857
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 2: the church, and so they're all being held accountable for

858
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 2: what's happening in the church. And so so ministry the

859
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: word so overseeing, and that means they're doing the bulk

860
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: of the preaching a prayer, So elders should be praying immensely.

861
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 2: If if a pastor never prays, that is a huge

862
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 2: red flag for a church. And then third soul care,

863
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: so specifically pulling from Hebrews thirteen, you know where pastors

864
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 2: will have to give an account to the Lord for

865
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 2: the souls of which they're shepherding. Acts twenty. I think

866
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: I mentioned both these passages last time on the podcast.

867
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: But Acts twenty shepherd the flock among you, So there's

868
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 2: a sense of their they're watching over their souls and

869
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 2: caring for them spiritually. And so there's a sense whereas

870
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: the elders, we need to know all the members.

871
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: You think that's a biblical command?

872
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I do. I do. So I would say

873
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 2: if a guy shows up to a church. I was

874
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 2: just talking to this with another guy the other day.

875
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: If a guy shows up to a church, preaches on

876
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 2: Sunday mornings and then leaves and doesn't have relationships in

877
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 2: the church. People speak in his life. Members can never

878
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 2: get a hold of him. If you or I were

879
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: to walk up to him and say, hey, how's your

880
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 2: membership doing, and he only speaks about how big the

881
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 2: church is, or how giving's going, or hey there's no

882
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: big fights going on, things must be going well. I

883
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 2: got a big problem with that. I got a real

884
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: big problem with that because there's some guys who love

885
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 2: to preach but hate to pastor, and that is not

886
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 2: a thing in scripture. Somebody who can just preach and

887
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 2: not love the people. So, because the best preaching is

888
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 2: the preaching that flows from the pastoral care that's been

889
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 2: done throughout the week. So when I'm prepping a sermon,

890
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 2: I'm not just like, what does this passage say? That's

891
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 2: where I start. But then I think, what is this

892
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 2: passage saying, and how's what it's saying going to benefit

893
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 2: the people I'm supposed to be shepherding. So we record

894
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 2: our sermons. I don't preach a sermon assuming people are

895
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 2: going to listen to it later. So there might be

896
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 2: things I say in the sermon that are specifically for

897
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 2: our congregation. I have to know our congregation in order

898
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 2: to be able to say those things. And there's certain

899
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 2: things I won't say because our congregation is not struggling

900
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 2: with that. They're not going through that.

901
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: Well, let me say this. So four pastors, and you

902
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: name the three roles of them, But you didn't say

903
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: that you have a communications pastor, a media pastor, youth pastor,

904
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: women's pastor, music pastor. You don't even have associate pastors.

905
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: Not that that not not that I want you to

906
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: help me or help us with. When someone says, well,

907
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: we have twelve pastors at our church. Sometimes a lot

908
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: of times there's there's a there's a misdefinition of what

909
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: pastor means, what the Bible says that a pastor is. Instead,

910
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: it becomes a title that's put on any kind of

911
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: leadership in the church. Multimedia pastor, uh, sports pastor, I

912
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 1: saw that before.

913
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 2: What is sports pastor?

914
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 1: Well, we have a lot of athletes in our congregation.

915
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: It's like the singles pastor seen that you kind of

916
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 1: divide up groups or technologies or systems within the church itself,

917
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: and you you put a leader in charge of the

918
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: system or the group and then you call them a pastor.

919
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: No, you don't have that, No, because that's not what

920
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 2: a pastor does. Now we could again again, based on

921
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 2: guys personalities or skill sets, it might be more prudent

922
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 2: to let them take the lead on a specific thing.

923
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that's all his responses, that's that's

924
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: only his responsibility, or that's his only responsibility.

925
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: You don't need to have missions pastor. Right, it's another system,

926
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: right church, put a pastor in charge.

927
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think all pastors should be doing counseling

928
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: when members have issues they need to work through. It

929
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 2: should not be a shock to have a pastor sit

930
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 2: down with you and help you think what descriptures say

931
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 2: about the situation I'm going through. That doesn't mean they have

932
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 2: to have a counseling degree or that hey, you only

933
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 2: counsel with me and nobody else. But there should be

934
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: the sense where a member can go to a pastor

935
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 2: and say, here's what I'm wrestling with, here's what I'm

936
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 2: struggling with. I don't know what the Bible says about it,

937
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 2: and a pastor. Pastor could at least give a foundational

938
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 2: understanding of how scripture might speak to the situation they're

939
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 2: going through. And then because of the trust built between

940
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 2: the member and the pastor. And I'm saying pastor, I'm

941
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 2: not necessarily saying the one lead guy. So when I'm

942
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 2: saying pastor, I'm saying it could be any four of

943
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 2: our guys.

944
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:14,399
Speaker 1: We people think of it that way.

945
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so as I want to push it a

946
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: little bit against that, but because of the trust built

947
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 2: up there, it could also be. Hey, I think what

948
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 2: you're going here's what I think the Bible is saying

949
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 2: about your situational least at a foundational level. But also,

950
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 2: I know we have this other member who's gone through

951
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 2: the exact same thing. I think you should meet with

952
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 2: them for a few weeks and y'all can talk through

953
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 2: this issue. I'm happy to I'm happy to reach out

954
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 2: to them and give you give them a heads up

955
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 2: about why you're reaching out, or Hey, what you're going

956
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 2: through is like, I can give you a foundational understanding

957
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 2: what Scripture says, but this is a really big issue.

958
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 2: I know somebody outside of the church who will give

959
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 2: you a biblical perspective on this, who's dealt with this

960
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 2: a lot more than I have. I'm not passing you

961
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 2: off to them, so that I cleared up my calendar.

962
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 2: I'd actually like to walk alongside you as you talk

963
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 2: with them through this, just because they have a little

964
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 2: more experience in this specific issue than I do. But

965
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 2: I can at least tell you what scripture says at

966
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 2: a foundational level about what you're going through, and I

967
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: can point you to Jesus in it. If that's not

968
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 2: happening in churches, that's a problem. And again, that doesn't

969
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 2: have to be me as the lead guy, if you know, Brad,

970
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 2: one of our elders said, yeah, somebody one of our

971
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 2: members reached out to us asked about this. I was

972
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: giving them some counsel, and I'm thinking about connecting them

973
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,439
Speaker 2: with them. Amen, I would not be like, why didn't

974
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 2: they come talk to me? Or oh, I'm so glad

975
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: they went to you. I didn't have time for that

976
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: this week. We tell our members all the time we

977
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 2: will make time for our members because you are our

978
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: primary responsibility, and so you need to know that you

979
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 2: can reach out to us.

980
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: It seems so logical.

981
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well, again, it's what does the Bible

982
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 2: say a pastor is, and what does the Bible say

983
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 2: pastor does? Well does these things? And again, those like

984
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 2: you know a communications pastor multimedia pastor, or sports pastor

985
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 2: whatever it is. Again, those tend to be birthed out

986
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 2: of circumstances. Well, we have a lot of people, so

987
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: how do we make sure that they're cared for?

988
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 1: Right? Right?

989
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 2: So this is so some of the comments we're asking

990
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 2: about church planting, and one of the comments even said, well,

991
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: how's that different than just starting another service? Is very

992
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 2: different than to starting another service, because planting a church

993
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 2: is saying you all are responsible for y'all, not us.

994
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: It's a misunderstanding of planning a camp another campus.

995
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, so I'm not talking about planning another campus too,

996
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 2: different talking about planting an autonomous church with its own

997
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 2: pastors who shepherd those people, and those people are responsible

998
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: for them and they're now sharing the gospel and a community.

999
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 2: Another misconception with church planting is that it assumes it

1000
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 2: has to be further away, so like, we can only

1001
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 2: plan a church if it's thirty plus minutes away from us.

1002
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 2: I think churches, many churches, should be more open to

1003
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 2: planning a church ten minutes from them if they're getting

1004
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 2: too big and they can't care for the members. Because again,

1005
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 2: if it's about building the Kingdom of God or highlighting

1006
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 2: the Kingdom of God. Then it doesn't matter if we

1007
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 2: have a thousand. Yeah, you know, it's just are we

1008
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 2: being faithful with the with those who have who've been

1009
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 2: entrusted to us by the Lord. And so we have

1010
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 2: to constantly ask ourselves as pastors, are we being faithful

1011
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 2: to the souls that the Lord has put under our care?

1012
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 2: Or are we sacrificing that for something else, whether it's

1013
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: building our name bigger, whether it's we want to be

1014
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: the biggest church in town.

1015
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: Well, I want to say, Kimbers one, two, three, eight,

1016
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: I love you. I'm so glad you you reached out

1017
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: and we only got to one.

1018
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 2: I mean some of them I think were answered in

1019
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 2: some of Okay.

1020
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: So if there needs to be a part three comment

1021
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 1: on this video with a new question or pushback, whatever

1022
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: you need to do, let me know. And all of

1023
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: this has done out of love and us just genuinely

1024
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: thinking through these things. These are ideas we should think through,

1025
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: and we should use the Bible as the foundation of

1026
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: how we think we could be deceived by our own

1027
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: emotions or experiences or thoughts. The way we interact with

1028
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: culture could all deceive us, so let's use the Bible

1029
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: as the foundation of our thinking. I've run out of

1030
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:26,720
Speaker 1: time and so appreciate you. Appreciate you. Man. I'm laughing

1031
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: because we didn't have anything to talk about and we

1032
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: ended up talking for an hour. So if there needs

1033
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: to be a part three, let me know. But we'll

1034
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 1: continue regardless. We'll continue the discussion about what it looks

1035
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 1: like to have a good church. And that sounds bad.

1036
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 1: That sounds like we're claiming Amaas is the good church.

1037
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 2: We got a problems, we.

1038
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: Have our problems. We're just thinking through this with you

1039
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: out loud and using the Bible as the foundation. See

1040
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: you guys next Monday. Meg, thanks for joining me on

1041
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: the Grangersmith podcast. I appreciate all of you guys. You

1042
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 1: could help me out rating this podcast on iTunes. If

1043
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: you're on YouTube, subscribe to this channel, hit that little

1044
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: like button and notification spell so that you never miss

1045
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: anytime I upload a video. Yi