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Speaker 1: You know, when you're little and you look up to

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Speaker 1: your older siblings and their friends. They're out driving and

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Speaker 1: dating and going all kind of places you're not allowed

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Speaker 1: to go, and staying out late. Well, if you were

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Speaker 1: lucky enough, like Shelley and I, your older siblings would

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Speaker 1: let you tag along. All of my older sisters let

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Speaker 1: us go with them to different events and different adventures.

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Speaker 1: They took us to the Harlem Go Trotters, six Flags, camping,

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Speaker 1: football games, even concerts. I saw Elvis more than once

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Speaker 1: as a little kid. Occasionally, one of those friends would

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Speaker 1: also take us places. I was lucky enough to have

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Speaker 1: one of my sister Sheila's good friends, Kim, go into

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Speaker 1: law enforcement when I was about ten. Kim would always

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Speaker 1: come by the house and show me her badge and

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Speaker 1: hate me for a ride in her squad car. Honey,

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Speaker 1: those were some fun rides. I still love riding lights

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Speaker 1: and sirens. By the time I turned eighteen, Kim got

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Speaker 1: a corporate job. She was head of corporate security for

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Speaker 1: a department store called Riches, and she still let me

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Speaker 1: tag along. She hired me as a store detective, where

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Speaker 1: I could work nights and weekends while I went to

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Speaker 1: Georgia State. Today, I still love to tag along with

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Speaker 1: someone that I admire that has more or different experiences

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Speaker 1: that I do, has a different expertise or a willingness

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Speaker 1: to share their knowledge with me. Now, let me just

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Speaker 1: remind y'all of the case we're talking about. Tonight, Molly

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Speaker 1: Miller and Colt Haynes got into a car driven by

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Speaker 1: their friend Connipp. It was July the seventh, twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: in Wilson, Oklahoma. After the police chase that again got

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Speaker 1: up to speeds of one hundred and twenty miles an hour,

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Speaker 1: the chase was called off, but it was leaving such

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Speaker 1: a dust trail the deputies could see where the car

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Speaker 1: went and it entered a wooden area. Molly and Colet

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Speaker 1: were never seen again. We have no crime scene, We

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Speaker 1: have no sightings of them since that night. Now, they

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Speaker 1: did make a few calls on the eighth, and we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that, but they were never seen again. Tonight,

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Speaker 1: I've got somebody with me that has allowed me to

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Speaker 1: tag along with her and watch her operate. And let

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Speaker 1: me just tell you something. It was poetry in motion.

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Speaker 1: Marene O'Connell is brilliant. She is fearless, She is motivated,

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Speaker 1: but she is also a blast. Maureene retired from the

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Speaker 1: FBI in twenty sixteen after twenty five years as a

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Speaker 1: special agent. She worked a ton of white collar crime,

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Speaker 1: violent street gangs, she weren't narcotics. She also worked for

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Speaker 1: the FBI's Evidence Response Team. Marine O'Connell. Welcome to Zone seven.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Cheryl. That was a beautiful opening, and the

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Speaker 2: whole beginning reminded me of the people that you know,

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Speaker 2: brought me into law enforcement and showed me the light

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Speaker 2: and talked about, you know, the importance of focusing on

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Speaker 2: the victims and making sure that everything they need is

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Speaker 2: taken care of, you know, and thinking about all the

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Speaker 2: vulnerable people and how lucky we are to be in

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Speaker 2: a position to potentially help them. And I have to

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Speaker 2: say that I felt the same way about you. I

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Speaker 2: know that since the minute I met you way back

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Speaker 2: at I think Crime Con at one of the first

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Speaker 2: years they had it. Yeah, we just had we had

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Speaker 2: a good laugh and we had fun and it's been

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Speaker 2: happening ever since. So thank you very much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely And that's something that you know, I can't say

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Speaker 1: enough for any young detective or young all of as

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Speaker 1: or young agent listening. It means the world to me.

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Speaker 1: Even this is my fortieth year being in the criminal

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Speaker 1: justice field, and I still love the fact that I

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Speaker 1: can call you, run through a case and go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what have I missed, and with all of your expertise

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Speaker 1: you break it down.

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Speaker 2: We both do, though, we do that together. We just

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Speaker 2: break it down to the basics and go from there.

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Speaker 2: And what is your gut telling you? Yep, I agree.

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Speaker 2: I think we're both tracking in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: And you know, well, I got to tell people right

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Speaker 1: off the bat it was real clear that I was

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Speaker 1: going to head to Oklahoma and I was going to

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Speaker 1: get a chance to work with you. You were like, this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be great. We're gonna be staying at the ranch.

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Speaker 1: You know, we'll look out for you. Hear the directions.

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Speaker 1: So I'm driving and driving and you're like, hey, you

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Speaker 1: should be here by now, girl, And I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: think I'm closed because it's you know, I'm seeing some ranches,

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Speaker 1: but you know these ranches are huge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. We didn't realize we were going to Yellowstone as

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Speaker 2: soon as we.

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Speaker 1: Got there, Like you said, I mean, it looked like

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Speaker 1: Yellowstone when we hopped out of the truck. I've never

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Speaker 1: seen a place quite like it. It was stunning, and

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Speaker 1: when we walked in, I just felt like I was

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Speaker 1: among friends. Immediately, I had the opportunity to meet and

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Speaker 1: be with Paula Fielder. Paula is Molly's cousin. Paula and

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Speaker 1: Toby connected because Toby now owns the property. And again,

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Speaker 1: he was so willing to do anything that we asked,

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Speaker 1: anything that it took searching night and day, using four

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Speaker 1: wheelers and earth moving equipment and everything else he could

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Speaker 1: think of. I mean, Toby was fantastic. He was cooking,

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Speaker 1: are you hungry? You know, the victim's family was just amazing,

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Speaker 1: hugging everybody, you know, thanking everybody. And then of course you,

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Speaker 1: I just kind of saw you as the leader of

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Speaker 1: this whole thing, like crafting this out, and you were

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Speaker 1: just so at ease with everything, like this is our mission,

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Speaker 1: this is what we're here for. We all care about

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Speaker 1: each other, we care about what happened to Molly and Colet.

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Speaker 1: Let's just get this thing done and get her done,

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Speaker 1: get her done. And the thing that I loved the

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Speaker 1: most is when you looked at me and we'd been

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Speaker 1: you know, just having a good time and socializing for

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours and You're like, you want to

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Speaker 1: go out right now, and I'm like, cowgirl, up, let's

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Speaker 1: hit it. And we went out and it was dark

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Speaker 1: in them woods. Again, I felt this sense that there

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Speaker 1: was something in front of me. I didn't know how far,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was, but I just felt

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Speaker 1: like I want to go in that direction if at

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Speaker 1: all possible.

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Speaker 2: Now. Just to be clear, I was happy to go

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Speaker 2: out that night, but I was not down with walking

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Speaker 2: deep into the woods looking for something. That's why I

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Speaker 2: told Toby, hey, I need to side our man. I'm

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Speaker 2: not going on out there in this crazy especially after

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Speaker 2: the stories you guys been telling me.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it was crazy. But then the next morning,

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Speaker 1: I remember talking to Toby and I was like, I

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Speaker 1: want to go exactly where I was last night. And

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Speaker 1: when he dropped us back there, I could not believe

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Speaker 1: the waterway in front of us. I mean, I was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what she's thinking because we have not

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Speaker 1: talked at all alone, but I'm interested in that right there.

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Speaker 2: Just so the people listening can understand and have a

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Speaker 2: little more context. We get to the house and Rob

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Speaker 2: and Cindy who are running this show we're working on,

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Speaker 2: and they want us to come and process the crime scene.

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Speaker 2: They're there with Toby and his family. It's just beautiful

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Speaker 2: family and they're telling stories. They're telling us, this is

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Speaker 2: what we found, this is what we've got going on.

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Speaker 2: This is the information we received from this location and

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Speaker 2: that one. So Cheryl and I are pretty much just

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Speaker 2: sitting there taking it all in worse scribbling notes. I'm

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Speaker 2: writing like crazy, okay, okay, all right, we got this,

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Speaker 2: we got that, and we think there's a body of

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Speaker 2: water where we think the bodies could be there and

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Speaker 2: this is why. And so we're just going over everything,

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Speaker 2: taking everything in, and then the idea came up to

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Speaker 2: go out right then, so that's what we did. That's

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Speaker 2: and then the next morning when we woke up and

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Speaker 2: went out there you're talking about when we found the

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Speaker 2: body of water that we actually worked right. Oh. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: it was unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: If I was the director of a movie and wanted

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Speaker 1: a place for somebody in the mob to throw a body,

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Speaker 1: this was it.

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Speaker 2: It was just perfect, Like you couldn't even see it

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Speaker 2: because it was just under a canopy of huge trees,

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Speaker 2: and it was like a watering hole that was probably

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Speaker 2: you know, thirty feet in diameter and probably fifteen or

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Speaker 2: twenty feet deep, but there are times if there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of water, it's way deeper than that. And the

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Speaker 2: silt on the bottom was one of those things that

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Speaker 2: we talked about a lot the next day when we

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Speaker 2: were going through it.

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Speaker 1: And the walls of it were limestone, so if you

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Speaker 1: had fallen in it, there ain't no climbing out because

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Speaker 1: the wall would just keep collapsing.

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Speaker 2: Right when we were looking at it. As crime scene

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Speaker 2: investigators and people that have worked different types of scenes,

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Speaker 2: you know, you always try to imagine what would the

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Speaker 2: most likely scenario be, Where would the person be, where

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Speaker 2: would we most likely find them, And in order to

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Speaker 2: do that, you have to what I call drop the dominoes.

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Speaker 2: You're thinking about, if someone is there doing this, this

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Speaker 2: is what will most likely happen, and maybe they could

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Speaker 2: have fallen down here because of how it is up there,

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Speaker 2: marked with where the entrance is, where the phone call

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Speaker 2: came for, etc. So we're running through all these scenarios

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Speaker 2: in our head, and in some respect it's rather exhausting

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Speaker 2: because none of them have good endings, and you're just

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Speaker 2: going through over and over all these different scenarios in

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Speaker 2: your head.

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Speaker 1: I've never worked a cold case where I did not

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Speaker 1: have a crime scene, and we had a thousand acres.

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Speaker 1: And this is what I loved watching you. I tell

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Speaker 1: people there's five senses, but with the crime scene there's

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Speaker 1: also five, and you just take out the touch because

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Speaker 1: you're not supposed touch anything at a crime scene, and

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Speaker 1: so where there should be touch, I add your gut exactly,

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Speaker 1: and I watched you. You worked gut level the whole time.

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Speaker 1: And here's something that fascinated me. We would all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, you and I have some funny thing we

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Speaker 1: would say, or then we would break and get some water,

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Speaker 1: or we might break and have lunch, and then we're

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Speaker 1: telling another story, or we're talking about our families or

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Speaker 1: whatever we were doing. As soon as whatever that break was,

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Speaker 1: when it was over, you would say, hey, I thought

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Speaker 1: about something a minute ago. Even if we're eating or

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Speaker 1: joking or talking, your mind was still clear. And when

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Speaker 1: that break was over, you were ready with another suggestion.

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Speaker 1: When we got to the ravine and Toby was, you know,

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Speaker 1: getting the water pumped out, and that's the other thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Toby was just remarkable, and so were all

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Speaker 1: the folks that work with him. Every day. You said, well,

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Speaker 1: I need that water out of there. If we're going

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Speaker 1: to be looking for bones or artifacts, I need that

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Speaker 1: water gone. He was like, no problem. He got a

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Speaker 1: back ho and he dug some petition out so we

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Speaker 1: could get down there. The men put the pump in there,

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Speaker 1: the water starts going out, and you're like, man, this

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Speaker 1: water it's got one you know, the hose has one

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Speaker 1: screen on it, but we need bigger screens. They literally

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Speaker 1: went back to the barn and built us screens.

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Speaker 2: He cares as much about the victims as most of

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Speaker 2: our law enforcement partners do. I've never seen anything like it.

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Speaker 2: He's befriended the families, and he's just done everything in

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Speaker 2: his power. In addition to that, he was down there

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Speaker 2: working like he was on a chain gang all day long.

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Speaker 2: That was great.

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Speaker 1: And here's the thing. Every single thing that we even

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Speaker 1: suggested or thought might be helpful was just done. It

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Speaker 1: was straight action, straight If there's a problem, we're going

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Speaker 1: to figure it out right here and move this thing forward.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely because of the people that he had, It's all

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Speaker 2: in the team that you built.

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Speaker 1: I told you what I thought your process was while

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Speaker 1: I watched you, But tell us what your process is.

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Speaker 2: Well, first and foremost, to secure the scene or photograph it,

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Speaker 2: or get it all set up in such a way

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Speaker 2: that you're in control of whatever is taken out of

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Speaker 2: the environment. So whether it be a house, a garage,

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Speaker 2: a vehicle, a body, or a huge crime scene like

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Speaker 2: the one we had. We gathered all the information we had,

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Speaker 2: we just distilled it down to what we thought would

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Speaker 2: be the most likely location to search, which is this

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Speaker 2: ravine area that was covered by this bam boo and

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Speaker 2: this tree canopy. And then we went to work, and

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Speaker 2: we went to work with a team that we're all

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Speaker 2: willing to just quite frankly, work their asses off all

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Speaker 2: day long. That was really hard work. I honestly felt

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Speaker 2: like I was back on the job. And none of

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Speaker 2: it is glamorous. It's just filthy, mucky boots and pants

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Speaker 2: and you know, getting stuck in the sandy, silty, wet

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Speaker 2: mud and then hundreds and thousands of gallons of water

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Speaker 2: that we were going through and sifting through and eliciting

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Speaker 2: the help of everyone we could that was there that

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Speaker 2: was available. But my process is what are we looking for,

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Speaker 2: what is the best way to find it? And how

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Speaker 2: can I utilize the sources the resources that we have

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Speaker 2: with us right now to do the very best job

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Speaker 2: we can. And then of course how do we document it?

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Speaker 2: So we documented it on film and audio and everything

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Speaker 2: else that we had.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I took tons of photographs. I know that,

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Speaker 1: sending rob or video in and taking photographs even with drones,

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Speaker 1: and then of course we verbally recorded everything. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think it's well documented. And like you said, it

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Speaker 1: was pretty backbreaking there for a little bit, because let

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Speaker 1: me just explain to y'all when somebody is getting buckets

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Speaker 1: of salt from the bottom of this ravine back.

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Speaker 2: Home buckets, not like, oh my good.

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Speaker 1: Gosh, dumping on these tarps, and we're going through screens

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Speaker 1: and you're looking for a fingerbone or a zipper or

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Speaker 1: a button or a coin, anything that would show a

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Speaker 1: person might have been in there at some point in time.

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Speaker 1: When you have tree limbs and broken off pieces of bamboo.

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Speaker 1: Bamboo after it's been in Sialt for a little bit

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Speaker 1: looks a whole lot like a finger it does.

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Speaker 2: And the water was like a bog. It was like boggle,

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Speaker 2: wasn't it.

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Speaker 1: Gosh it was. It was unreal, And so your mind

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Speaker 1: you keep thinking, oh, there's a bone, there's a bone.

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Speaker 1: And then after a while, you've got some leaves, you've

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Speaker 1: got some rocks, you've got turtle shells and mushrooms and

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Speaker 1: all these different things. So you really have to or

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Speaker 1: I did anyway, sometimes just visually take a break. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm just going to walk down to the cat

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Speaker 1: tails for a minute and then go up the hill

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Speaker 1: for a second because I can't see any more bamboo

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Speaker 1: because all I'm seeing is fingers, and I don't want

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Speaker 1: to disregard something because I think, oh, that's bamboo.

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Speaker 2: And you just have to be gentle with yourself and

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Speaker 2: be patient because it's slow going initially, but it's always

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Speaker 2: slow going initially in a situation like this. This was

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Speaker 2: a very labor intensive project. And what I mean by

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Speaker 2: slow going is you're going to have all these false hits,

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Speaker 2: false hits, false hits, and after a while, you have

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Speaker 2: to trust that you're going to be able to notice

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Speaker 2: them more easily as time goes on, which absolutely became

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Speaker 2: the case, and then we were able to pick up

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Speaker 2: our pace a little bit still. You know, we were

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Speaker 2: bent over for the entire day and just trying to

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Speaker 2: sit through all this stuff, and it was interesting work.

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Speaker 2: Some people were getting all worked up. Look what I found?

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Speaker 2: Look what I found. I and I, you know, on

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Speaker 2: YouTube to a certain extent, we were always okay, let's

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Speaker 2: just take a peek at it, and you know, simmer down.

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Speaker 2: I understand why they're getting excited, but I also know that,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's probably bamboo.

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Speaker 1: One thing you did that I thought was smart. You

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Speaker 1: had a separate tray that was completely empty, and you said, hey,

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Speaker 1: that's great, put it in that tray and we'll come

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Speaker 1: back to it.

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Speaker 2: That's the good tray. That was the trade with the

300
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Speaker 2: good stuff. We first documented mentally, or I had them

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Speaker 2: film where exactly we found it and where the bucket

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Speaker 2: was drawn from, because if we did find something from

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Speaker 2: the bucket in the southwest corner, then we know to

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Speaker 2: go down there some more. Because with the amount of

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Speaker 2: silt that was in there, we talked to a bunch

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Speaker 2: of people, Tobia talked to experts, and I forget what

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Speaker 2: the number is right now, I apologize, but there was

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Speaker 2: something like a foot and a half of silt per

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Speaker 2: year that would fall since we found them. So we

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Speaker 2: weren't once we heard that, you know, we were just

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Speaker 2: looking through everything, all the silt on top. But we

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Speaker 2: knew that if we were going to hit the mother load,

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Speaker 2: since it you know, we're looking all the way back

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Speaker 2: to twenty thirteen, that it's going to be a little

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Speaker 2: bit deeper. So that gave us some reference, you know,

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Speaker 2: frame of reference in our mind. And then once we

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Speaker 2: started digging and we started finding stuff, that's actually when

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Speaker 2: we started finding the bamboo that looked like bones. So

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Speaker 2: I could understand why people were getting excited. But I

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Speaker 2: think it's always important just to keep a level head.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I'm salty and I'm very reluctant to

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Speaker 2: get worked up on this stuff. And you know, even

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Speaker 2: during the finale, I'm like, let's slow our role, ladies

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Speaker 2: and gentlemen, let's just you know, see what's happening here.

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Speaker 2: But it was great fun.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's really important that I thought you handled

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Speaker 1: a lot of that so beautifully, and you are authentic

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Speaker 1: all the time. So you're a Chicago girl, so there's

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Speaker 1: no reason not to bring that out. So when I

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Speaker 1: know there was a period of time where they thought

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Speaker 1: they found a tongue. That's not possible, especially after so

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Speaker 1: many years. A tongue ain't going to last a week.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you've got turtles and you've got fish,

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Speaker 1: and you got all this. But you were so good

335
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Speaker 1: at hey, put it right there, Go ahead and take

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Speaker 1: your pictures. We'll come back to it and watching just

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Speaker 1: how real you were. There was no pretense about you.

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Speaker 1: There was no oh, well, I'm a federal agent and

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Speaker 1: I'm on the evidence response team, and you know, there

340
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,399
Speaker 1: was none of that. It was Hey, i've got an

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Speaker 1: idea that's going to make this easier. I've got an

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00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,440
Speaker 1: idea that's going to make this workable, faster, smarter. There's

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Speaker 1: not enough that I can say if I had to

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Speaker 1: pick one thing, the tray where you allowed the civilians,

345
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Speaker 1: for lack of a better to put the things that

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Speaker 1: they thought was critical.

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Speaker 2: Because we had family members there too, which is another thing.

348
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Speaker 2: I don't like discussing this stuff in front of family members.

349
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Speaker 2: When we're what iffing things, you know, like for example,

350
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Speaker 2: what we just talked about, if someone were going to

351
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Speaker 2: try to get out of this body of water, that

352
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 2: they'd be clawing in the side of this Sandy Sandstone.

353
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Speaker 2: You don't want to say that in front of family

354
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Speaker 2: members because they're going to imagine that. And then sure enough,

355
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Speaker 2: Molly's aunt told us her cousin. I think we found

356
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 2: out she was her cousin, but she told us that no,

357
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Speaker 2: it's okay. I've heard everything. I've talked to everyone, I've

358
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Speaker 2: imagined the worst. I'm good. All I want is answers.

359
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 2: Let's go say whatever you need to say, because I

360
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 2: want to be part of this part of what's happening

361
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Speaker 2: right here.

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Speaker 1: Molly and Colt both made some phone calls. Molly called

363
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Speaker 1: now one one, then they both started calling friends, so

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00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,120
Speaker 1: we know that their phones were active until at least

365
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Speaker 1: seven o'clock the next.

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Speaker 2: Morning, which is unbelievable, and where they picked off of

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Speaker 2: And I mean, you know you can sense the fear

368
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:04,640
Speaker 2: and the angst and anxiety that those kids were feeling

369
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 2: or dealing with. It's going down a rabbit hole, and

370
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 2: not only that, it's not only imagining the worst, but

371
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Speaker 2: knowing the worst happened, and knowing you're standing in a

372
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Speaker 2: place where this may be the spot where it actually

373
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Speaker 2: did happen.

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Speaker 1: And I also got the sense they're close by they're

375
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Speaker 1: not one hundred miles away.

376
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Speaker 2: No, they're not one hundred miles away.

377
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Speaker 1: I mean they're right there. And I think we were

378
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: closer than we probably even realized at the time. But

379
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Speaker 1: I think this was quick. The disposal was quick. I

380
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 1: think these are people that didn't take a lot of time.

381
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Speaker 1: I don't think they were buried. I don't think there's

382
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 1: a clandestine graver looking for I think they are in water.

383
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Speaker 2: You can cook up the craziest theories, and nine times

384
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Speaker 2: out of ten it's just the simplest answer. And if

385
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,199
Speaker 2: you're trying to get rid of a body, pulling up

386
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: to that top part and throwing them in, done finito.

387
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Speaker 2: And you know what.

388
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Speaker 1: I often tell young csis, there ain't no Agatha Christie here.

389
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 1: It's going to be a to B. And as soon

390
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 1: as you figured out it's going to be like, well,

391
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 1: that was obvious.

392
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 2: The hallmark of any good investigator, as you well know,

393
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 2: is to go exactly where the evidence leads you. You

394
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Speaker 2: can have theories, and you know, some people say, oh,

395
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Speaker 2: I had no theories going into this, Okay, whatever. I

396
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 2: have theories when I go into things, and when it's

397
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 2: a time to pivot, it's time to pivot, and that's

398
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 2: what you do now.

399
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Speaker 1: You said earlier that this kind of work is not glamorous,

400
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 1: but I do have to tell the folks something that

401
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: was pretty funny that happened. I showed my son a

402
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 1: picture of you, and you're in your FBI jacket, and

403
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:42,880
Speaker 1: I said, this is who I'm going to go meet

404
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma. What do you think? And I'm thinking he's

405
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: going to say, oh my gosh, FBI agent. That's fabulous

406
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 1: because he's fixing to graduate with a degree in criminal

407
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 1: justice and he wants to go on and maybe do

408
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 1: something on the federal level. Well, here's what he said.

409
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 1: He looked at your picture and Huck said, huh, she

410
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: looks like she didn't pay for a drink in the nineties.

411
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,919
Speaker 1: I said, boy, I think you are absolutely right, you know.

412
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 1: And here's the thing again about you. You are beautiful,

413
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: You're clearly bright. You've had a great career, but that's

414
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: not what you use. If all I ever knew of

415
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: you was over the phone, you are as genuine from

416
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: the first time I ever had a conversation with you

417
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: until you are today. There's no pretense. You've never said, well,

418
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: the director of the FBI said this about me, or

419
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: hear all my accolades, or look over my CV. That

420
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: has never come up in conversation. I know you had

421
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: a case once where you had two hundred suspects, So

422
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: when you have a situation where you're trying to figure out,

423
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 1: I've got these phone calls that don't make sense to me.

424
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: I've got a car that wrecks, that left a dirt

425
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 1: trail that law enforcement could see. And I don't know

426
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: why they didn't go It's a small town. They knew

427
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 1: who they were chasing. Why didn't they go to him

428
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: the next day? Now I've got a sheriff that's had

429
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 1: some corruption, and now we've got drugs involved. We've got

430
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: other criminals that are involved, and we've got people staying

431
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: at the sheriff's house that are on house arrest. And

432
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: you've got all this mess. And on top of that,

433
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: unlike some of the stuff when you worked with the

434
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: street gangs, all of these folks are related.

435
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: It was a murky mess. It still is. I was

436
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: so disappointed in what the law enforcement officers at that time,

437
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: specifically his uncle, Nip's uncle, was doing that It just

438
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: really pissed me off. Part of my language.

439
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: It just ugh.

440
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 2: That was the worst. And the fact that he was

441
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: letting anybody drive one hundred and twenty miles an hour

442
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 2: is just utter nonsense. That type of behavior was allowed

443
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 2: from an early age and that's why it continued and

444
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 2: running from the police. It's a recipe for the worst

445
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 2: possible outcome.

446
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: And when I was out there, there was at least

447
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: one cow that was out of the fence in the roadway.

448
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: So I'm just telling you, one hundred and twenty miles

449
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: an hour, you're dead pretty quick. I think it also

450
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: needs to be pointed out he wasn't even driving his

451
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: own car. Of course, he's driving his girlfriend's car. So

452
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: if he wrecks it or burns up the engine, I mean,

453
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 1: it ain't his car. He's got no skin in it,

454
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: you know. And then he got hurt a lie and

455
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: say her car was stolen. Now again, let me explain

456
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: to everybody small town, who's going to steal your car? Again,

457
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: everybody knows everybody. So at this point, you and I

458
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: were thinking the tribal police need to come in and

459
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: take this thing.

460
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: Over, because the stuff that we really needed, that we

461
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: felt we needed, was stuff that you needed. Law enforcement

462
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 2: powers to do, like subpoena records and things like that.

463
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 2: You know, until you got that information, you're not going

464
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: to get the full picture. We had big chunks of fact,

465
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 2: and that's what you want. You can have your theories,

466
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: you can think whatever you want to think, but when

467
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 2: you got to get down to brass tacks and say,

468
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 2: what are the nones? What are the known facts that

469
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: we have for this investigation? And those were the phone calls,

470
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 2: the police chase, the things like that. So that gave

471
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: us a pretty good opening picture into what we were

472
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 2: looking at, but it certainly was not the full picture,

473
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: and it certainly wasn't enough for a warrant or for

474
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: an arrest or anything like that. So that's why we

475
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 2: were saying, you know, we'd like another law enforcement entity

476
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 2: to take a peek at this. It's important and it

477
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: needs to be done. And two people are dead. There's

478
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 2: little or no belief by anyone that they're alive, so

479
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: it's got to be done.

480
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: If you could go back, what would you have done

481
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: day one? Minute one?

482
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 2: So in a situation like that minute one, you know,

483
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: strike while the iron is hot and start subpoenaing everything,

484
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 2: just you know, carpet bomb with subpoenas and start getting answers,

485
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: especially when you're in a situation where everyone knows each other,

486
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 2: most of these people are related, etc. Etc. You have

487
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,239
Speaker 2: to document. You have to just start pulling whatever you

488
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 2: can to create a mountain of factual evidence, stuff that

489
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 2: can hold up in court. You're going to have people

490
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 2: that you interview that don't want to talk because they're

491
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 2: again related, or they just don't want to get jammed

492
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: up with everybody in the neighborhood. So you're going to

493
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: have to rely on bank records, cell phone records, things

494
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 2: like that, and you have to have the people that

495
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 2: are too close to this recuse themselves and have others

496
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 2: step in. Bring in another law enforcement agency, bring in

497
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: the sheriff's department, bring in the tribal police, bring in

498
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 2: the FBI, bring in whoever you have to bring in

499
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 2: to keep it clean, keep it kosher, and keep it

500
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: all above board.

501
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: It has shocked me that so many people involved with

502
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: con and were somehow associated with this case, either but

503
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: dialing down one one that he knew they were shot

504
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: or whatever, or they were out or they were you know,

505
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: associated with him with other crimes that he was doing that,

506
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: nobody has wanted to make a deal.

507
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more with the passage of time, you

508
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: often find people whose conscience it just demands that they

509
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: do the right thing, or at least if they're confronted

510
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 2: by someone like us, to just finally tell the truth.

511
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: And you know, to a certain extent, I would have

512
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: really loved to interrogate some people, but that wasn't part

513
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: of what we were doing there. We only had a

514
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: couple of days and they were you know, we were

515
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 2: brought in essentially to process what they hoped would be

516
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: the crime scene. But you know, I'm a big believer in interrogation.

517
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: Even if you just get four or five more nuggets,

518
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: it's just something else to add to that pile.

519
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: And that's how you know is long enforcement really serious?

520
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: Because if you've got somebody that's young and they're looking

521
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: at fifteen or twenty years, they would be motivated to

522
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: make a deal. So I want everybody to know we

523
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: didn't just focus on the quarry for lack of a

524
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: better word. I mean, as you said, we went to

525
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: the four corners, but kind of explain this ranch, these

526
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: thousand acres.

527
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: He's got his own lake, right near the house that

528
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: you can see from the house. Then there was also

529
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: a lake that was adjacent to the property where people

530
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: would historically come up on their boats and right into

531
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 2: the area behind this quarry area. And the reason this

532
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 2: place was important was because it was well known to

533
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 2: all the young guys that lived around there, because it

534
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: was like the best fishing anywhere near there. People go

535
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: there from hundreds of miles away to fish. It's just

536
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: a primo spot. So that little area is well known

537
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: to Nip and his family members, and they have boats

538
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 2: and they have a pier right across that you can

539
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: see from standing there. It's one of those locations. We're

540
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: in this location, all the information, the phones pinging, etc.

541
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: And then we learn all about this fishing hole. We

542
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: stand there, we turn around, there's the fishing hole right

543
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: behind us. And so things were clicking into place for

544
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: you and for me, I think where we were like,

545
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: this makes sense, This makes sense things that were scattered

546
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: about before and were just facts written on a sheet

547
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: of paper. When you get out there boots on the ground,

548
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 2: on scene and you look around and you see these

549
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: things like the fishing hole, and then on the other

550
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: side the pier that those guys used to hang out on.

551
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: All those things together just started to gel for us absolutely.

552
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: And here's the thing for me. When we saw the

553
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: peer and we knew that was their land, you and

554
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: I started to ask Toby, on your land, have you

555
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: found anything like marijuana plants or anything else that would

556
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: be some type of illegal activity. In some ways, that's

557
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: kind of smart because if somebody's going to find something

558
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: like that, the search warrants is not going to lead

559
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: back to their property. It's going to be about your property.

560
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: And that was key to this whole thing because Toby

561
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: said when we asked him this, he said, Yeah, as

562
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, when I first bought this land,

563
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,959
Speaker 2: they were always out around here, and I think they

564
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: were just up to no good and using my property

565
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: so that they wouldn't get jammed up if something bad happened.

566
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,239
Speaker 2: So again, that was another one of those things that

567
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: just clicked into place.

568
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: And made perfect sense when we're putting this puzzle together. Well, Mauree,

569
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for letting me tag along

570
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: with you on that scene. Now I'm going to end

571
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: Zone seven the way I always do with a quote

572
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: from somebody from my Zone seven and this comes from

573
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcock's Court TV. Trust your gut. That's the best

574
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: advice ever. It's true and I don't think that could

575
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 1: be truer tonight, then listening to special agent retired Marino

576
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: call A. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Zone seven.

577
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: H