WEBVTT - Mind the Digital Gap – Lab 072 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.320 I feel like there was such a push to everything 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.800 digital in COVID, and now that things are kind of 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:10.200 opening up. Even though the numbers continue to go up, 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:13.160 it seems like we're getting more and more and more digital. 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:15.640 I thought things would go back. People are saying, no 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:18.320 more menus, that's over QR codes only. 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.560 Exactly, you got a QR code on your table. And 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:24.640 you know what's funny, Jimmy he doesn't have a smart phone, 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:28.639 so when he goes to restaurants, he's out of luck 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.360 because if they don't have menus to pass out, he 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.040 has to hope somebody with him will let him use 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:35.640 their phone to be able to look at the menu. 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:37.800 It also reminds me of when people were saying we 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.560 don't take cash because of COVID. But I'm like, all right, 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.440 y'all are in here allowing people to die maskless, but 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:45.960 still saying you don't take cash. If you're trying to 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:47.560 go all digital and you're trying to get rid of 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.800 the cash and coins, just say that right, no have zis. 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:51.400 Yeah. 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.080 But all of those things I think are just indicators 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:58.920 of this widening digital divide. Absolutely, and I think maybe 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:01.400 in more places than we really lives and we really 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.520 ought to talk about it. I'm TT and I'm Zachiah 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:33.640 and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs. 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:37.039 A weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science, pop culture, and 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:38.280 a healthy doser friendship. 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:40.880 This week, we're talking all about the state of internet 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:43.520 access in the United States and how a lack of 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:46.520 internet access affects different areas of our lives. 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:59.400 So let's get into the recitation, all right, So what 0:01:59.440 --> 0:01:59.840 do we know? 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.040 Well, I think we know many of us are using 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.520 the internet every day in our work lives, but definitely 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:07.840 also in our personal lives. 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:11.640 Right, And I feel like everyone is online, like everyone 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.760 has to be online because of the way that our 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:16.480 culture is set up. 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.120 And what we know from my episode with Christina Morillo 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.000 is that there is a lot of data about us online. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.320 So true, So what do we want to know? 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.480 I think we want to know who has Internet access 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.720 and who doesn't. Even though it feels like everybody's online 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.160 and that you have to be online, I'm sure there 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:40.200 is not one hundred percent online participation across the United States. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.320 Right, And I want to know about the pitfalls with 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:48.720 the internet. Everything's moving to be online. Every application. You know, 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:53.000 you're applying for a loan, you're applying for a house, anything, 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.360 you have to do it online. And so I'm wondering, 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.400 because all of these things are man made, are there 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:03.560 any biases that they have found with algorithms and just 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.160 the Internet in general and how it plays a role 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:07.840 in our day to day lives. 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.000 I think we're ready. Let's jump into the dissection. 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.760 Our guest for today's lab is doctor Nicole Turner Lee. 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.680 I'm a senior fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.400 Institution and I'm also the director of the Center for 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.680 Technology Innovation, and I have a forthcoming buck which is 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.520 on the US Digital Divide entitled Digitally Invisible. How the 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:39.200 Internet is creating the new Underclass. 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.840 It feels like so much of life is happening online, 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:46.720 between social media, working from home, telehealth, which was booming 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.160 after the pandemic. I think it's easy for a lot 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.000 of us to take Internet access for granted. I don't 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.360 care where you are now, they're not making menus anymore. 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:57.560 It's a QR code for everything code. 0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:58.000 Yeah. 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.360 The thing we have to remember is not everyone has 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.760 access to the Internet, and even if they do, not 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.400 all internet access is the same. Doctor Turner calls this 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.920 gap and access the digital divide. 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.920 We have had this divide way before the pandemic, right, 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.240 there were always people who on the wrong side of 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.760 digital opportunity. There was no Facebook when I was growing up, 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.680 no Instagram, five to FI. So when I started in 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.400 this space, I was a digital activist working in City Chicago, 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.480 really training people on how to set up email accounts. 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.479 And what we found during the process is that more 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.599 jobs were going online. As a results of that, more 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.600 people had to figure out ways to create a resume 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:43.760 and Microsoft Office uploaded to an email account. We see 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.960 now that it's gone further where you have to use 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.839 certain software applications to apply for jobs. 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.159 Doctor Turner Lee says that while innovation around some of 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:57.159 these technologies and digital systems has been fast, not everyone 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.600 is using or has access to the technology, and all 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.039 of this was exacerbated by COVID. 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:07.280 The pandemic revealed that if you were not connected, you 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:11.320 could not make an appointment for vaccinations, you could not work, 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:15.320 you could not learn, you couldn't even memorialize your friends 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.800 and family members who were lost as a result of 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:18.479 this pandemic. 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.839 This is so important, right, and I think we saw 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.280 this with a lot of older folks. You know, I 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:28.840 can remember this, and this disparity, even though it's digital, is. 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.320 Having very real effects on right day to day lives. 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.800 I remember when the pandemic hit and there were a 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.800 lot of kids that were, you know, trying to do 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:42.040 virtual school and they didn't have internet at home, and 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:43.960 so their parents would have to find a place where 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.400 they could get internet so that they could log in 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.560 and have virtual school. So there were some kids that 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.880 were having virtual school in their parents' car, in a library, 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.680 anywhere where they could find internet. Not just let you 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:59.200 know that it's not just as easy as turning on 0:05:59.240 --> 0:05:59.760 your device. 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.359 Yeah, Doctor Turnerlee shared even more info about how the 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.560 digital divide played out in education. 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:10.640 So at March when we had the beginnings of the pandemic, 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.800 and if you all remember, around March through April, we 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.320 were at peak numbers. We had to send fifty million 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.760 school aged kids home from one hundred and ninety five 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:24.000 thousand school districts across the US. And we thought it 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.640 was going to be easy. We figured, hey, these are 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.880 young people, they're resilient. We'll put them online and we'll 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.480 make sure we give them laptops and figure that out. 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.239 Two things happen as we were scurrying to get Internet 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:37.280 enabled devices. 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:38.560 We realized that K. 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.279 Through twelve students who were in public schools did not 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.599 have access to Internet enabled devices as. 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.480 Part of their school ecosystem. 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.560 Generally, there was no budget right before the pandemic. 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:51.920 Not only could we not give kids. 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.680 Tablets, we also found that we did not have broadband 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:56.880 service in the home. 0:06:57.520 --> 0:06:58.599 So let's talk about that. 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.720 Fifty million schools ledged kids sent home fifteen to sixteen 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:06.240 million of them without internet access in the home, nine 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.240 million without internet access or a device. 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.920 That's so important because just because you have a device 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.120 doesn't mean you have access. And I don't know if 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.160 you remember the days of trying to do dial up 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:23.080 and somebody is using the phone. Similarly, if you don't 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.080 have really high speed internet access, multiple people are multiple 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.120 devices trying to log on at the same time is 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:30.600 no good. 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.080 And then when you think about the impact that that 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.840 has on a student, these kids were being set back, 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.080 you know, in their education. So then what does that 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:42.360 mean At the end of the school year, are they 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.080 promoted to the next grade? And if so, are they 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.480 behind their friends that have had access to high speed 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.120 internet with no problems. 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:55.600 And now the impact is we lost so many kids. 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:57.760 I share the story about this fifteen year old girl 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.160 in Detroit, Michigan who did not log in. 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:02.800 Her case manager came and they put her. 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.760 In juvenile detention because she failed to lock into school. 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:08.520 It's a true story. 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.720 That is terrible. 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.640 You know, it's pretty it's sick. Yes, in the middle 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:14.400 of a pandemic. 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:17.040 And when we look at this type of stuff at 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.160 a bigger scale, not just you know, one off cases, 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.960 we find that the disparities in the Internet access are 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:28.840 having disproportionate effects in minoritized communities. 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.520 What we're seeing now with K through twelve students in 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.640 public schools, particularly black and Latino students and tribal students, 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:37.600 is that we're seeing that they're going to be two 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.719 to three years behind when it comes to learning proficiencies. 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.360 Some of those kids that couldn't get online, it was 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.680 because thirty five percent of those households were sharing one 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.319 device among multiple siblings. Some of those kids didn't get 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:55.360 online because their parents were serving us Wendy's and Burger 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.160 King and delivering our groceries to our doors. There was 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.400 no adult to make sure kids learning and so that 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.480 to me is like the most poignant moment of where 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.760 we failed a particular delivery of service that is imperative 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:10.800 to the future of this country. I don't think we're 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.160 actually going to see this generation's impact until like the 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.680 next two to three years, right when we're trying to 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:20.679 fill folks in positions where the math scores are lower. 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.160 So we can't break the stem divide. This is not 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.280 a digital divide of shiny objects and things. This is 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.720 a divide that is actually around the social mobility of 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.160 certain populations. 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.880 Yeah, it's bigger than who has the new iPad exactly 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.840 camera resolution? Right, I think people are not thinking about 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.000 what can you do with this device? What does this 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.200 mean for your portal to education access opportunity. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.480 I mean you can do a little experiment, turn your 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.800 phone off for twenty four hours and see how hard 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.000 things get. You know, when you want to communicate with somebody, 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.520 If you needed to call a taxi, how are you 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.760 doing that? If you wanted to just get information, Everything 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.680 that you do is connected to the Internet, and so 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.680 when it's inequitable, you can see how it can have 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.240 a major impact on somebody's day to day life. We're 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.600 not talking about, oh I can't get on Instagram. We're 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.960 talking about can I get food? Will I know what's 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.959 going on around me? Anytime something major happens. We get 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.640 these alerts on our phones from you know whatever news 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:25.240 outlets that were subscribed to. You basically won't know anything 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.559 that's happening, even just down the street. 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.800 And this is something that's changed over time because when 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.640 we were in elementary school and middle school, internet access 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.120 wasn't a huge part of school. Like there were the computers. 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.960 I wanted to play May this Beacon, teach us typing. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.880 I wanted to play Oregon Trail, but that was just supplemental, 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:50.400 you know what I mean. Now, having a computer setup, 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.560 whether it's a laptop or a tablet, it's crucial. And 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.920 so even if you have a device, there's still so 0:10:56.120 --> 0:11:00.640 much that goes into having that device connected, having internet access. 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.040 During the pandemic, communities came together to increase access for 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.800 those in need. Libraries, churches, small businesses, and emergency funding 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:20.000 allowed some schools to access hotspots. But even with hotspots, 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.760 there are still challenges, especially in rural communities. 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.959 The hotspots have to have internet access or some type 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.479 of robust network to work. And there are still pockets 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.600 digital deserts with that exist within rural communities where we're 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.600 not able to bring the type of hot speed connectivity 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:43.000 or broadband as we commonly define it. Listen, telecom company 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.000 is not common for you with high speed internet if 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:49.559 they've only served five hundred to three thousand residents, because 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.480 at the end of the day, the Internet was built 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.080 off of the very capitalist model. But with that being said, 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.440 I'm really proud that there were rural communities to try 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.360 to figure some of this stuff out. I remember talking 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:05.160 to a community in Texas where they actually deployed satellite 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.560 interfaces so that the kids could get online their school. 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.360 There were communities like in Roanoke, Virginia, which is very rural, 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.480 where they put the Wi Fi transmitters on top of 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:17.080 the construction signs. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:17.880 But once you see on. 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.959 The highway that say Merge left, they actually pulled a 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.360 few of those construction signs and they were able to 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.080 put technology access up. 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.160 It's great that some communities were able to come up 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:32.160 with makeshift solutions to improve internet access. But doctor Turner 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.319 Lee shared that black and brown communities were often left 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.160 out of these local efforts. Doctor Turner Lee is now 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.079 working on a project to interview about twenty five hundred 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.440 residents of the Deep South about their internet access generally 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.079 and specifically during the pandemic. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.960 Some of the early findings that we're getting is that 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:54.480 people in the rural South, the Black, Latino Indigenous South, 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.320 they went to hotels to get their access. And for me, 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.640 that's a problem because what it suggests is that we 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.000 have more work to do when it comes to deployment, 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.720 but we also have more work in urban areas. 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.160 We have over one million units of public. 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.800 Housing here in the United States where K through twelve 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.160 students lived, but yet we didn't have open Wi Fi 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:20.160 access in much of our federally assisted housing here in 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.760 the United States. So we had many missed opportunities to 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.360 do the type of work to accelerate broadband adoption. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:29.800 And I think now we're still struggling through. 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.200 That, even though we've had a two year lesson on 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:37.000 the fact that we have disparate access among students and locations, 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:38.920 particularly among the most vulnerable. 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.559 Hearing about how the digital divide is having the most 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.920 impact on black and brown communities, Native communities and rural 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.400 places and public housing. It's really sad, but it's also 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:54.800 not surprising to see the intersection of systemic inequality and technology. 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.200 The people who need Internet access the most are the 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:02.120 ones facing the biggest barriers to access and are paying 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:03.480 the price exactly. 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.760 And people that are growing up in the age of 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:10.360 fiber don't understand that not all Internet is created equal. Baby. 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.600 Do you remember dial up? When you had the phone line. 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.920 To use the Internet, and when somebody would call, it 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:17.880 would knock you off the internet, or. 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.240 You could hear them talking the neighbors, sound and robotic 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:26.720 coming through the computer. Absolutely, and that Internet was so slow. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.520 Oh my gosh, everybody spoiled. Nowadays, you type something in 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.880 the Internet, you know, point zero zero, one second Google 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.480 tells you they got the results for you. Back then, 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.280 you had to sit back, have a snack, go to 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:42.480 the bathroom, and by the time you got back, maybe 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.560 half the page had loaded, you know. 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.600 But we were also using way too much HTML back then. 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.960 Slay movies behind your myspaceet. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.800 Our black planet was it was lit. I had these 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.680 green flames. It was it was very good. I could 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:00.640 it all that myself. We were all little coders. 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.680 Man we shouldn't have given that up. But you know, 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.120 if you think that that kind of Internet is no 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:10.160 match for what we're doing these days, Like most people 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.440 don't even have landlines. Now, imagine if you had to 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:14.760 have a landline to get on the internet. I'm out, 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:17.440 I think too fuck. 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.640 And when doctor Nicole Turner Lee mentions broadbands, she's talking 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.600 about high speed internet that is always on. Not with 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:26.560 me as a kid. We're talking about from back in 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.640 the day. And the term broadband is an abbreviation for 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:33.480 broad bandwidth. And this type of connection uses multiple data 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:38.320 channels to transmit large amounts of information. And there are 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:45.640 a bunch of different types of broadband setups like cable, fiber, wireless, satellite. 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.480 All of those things. That's the kind of Internet we 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.120 need if we want everybody to be able to get 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.000 on and do all of the activities. 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:55.320 When you're not connected to the internet, you don't know 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.200 what's happening online. And as a result, and this has 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:03.000 been reserved ed, Uber may not come to your neighborhood 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:06.160 because the algorithm knows nothing about your community, and if 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.720 it does, there's not enough of you that actually use 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.880 this type of technology. For the algorithm to direct itself 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.760 to your neighborhood. It's a search arge for being disconnected. 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:17.800 You can't get no discounts, you can't get no home 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.000 shopping networks and delivery services. 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:21.040 You are off the. 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:24.800 Grid, and this provides a different context, you know, for 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:26.800 being off the grid. A lot of times people say, oh, 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:28.480 I'm going to be off the grid. That's my choice. 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.840 I want to keep things private, but not off the 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.400 grid to the extent that you don't have access to 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.280 the same services that could be convenient or helpful to 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:36.880 your life. 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:40.480 Mm hmmmm hm. Some people they'll be like, oh, I 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.640 don't have a smartphone because I like to be plugged 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.920 into what's going on around me. And I'm like, yes, 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.240 that is a privilege that you have to be able 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.800 to do that. That is a privilege because what you 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.360 all are also saying is that I can pick and 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.720 choose when I will plug myself back in. So when 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.200 you need to send an email, when you need to 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.320 book a flight, when you need to do very basic things, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:05.960 you have that opportunity. 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.160 It's not that you have no choice, right. Doctor turner 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.239 Lie says technology is like a two sided coin. On 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.720 the one side, it helps us stay connected, and it's 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:19.119 been leveraged for activism, climate change, and artificial intelligence helped 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.919 with our COVID vaccine development. But she says there's also 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:24.720 another more sinister side. 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.600 Then there are those of us that go online. We 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:32.400 watch our movies, we buy our dresses, we look for really. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.400 Cool hair for our braids. Hello, we do all that. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.880 We get our packages at our door, our groceries delivered. 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.040 Sometimes we even find love online. 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:44.000 Well, guess what. 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.840 All that stuff that you're doing is connected to your 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:48.840 digital profile. 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.880 And we talked about this kind of data in Lavity 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.000 five Don't Get Hacked with Christina Morillo. The more a 0:17:55.080 --> 0:18:00.000 company learns about your online behavior, the more there algorithm 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:04.080 can predict future behavior. And Taylor, they're marketing to fit 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.000 your profile for real. It seems like they know exactly 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.720 what you want when you want it, yes, and this 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:13.679 can lead to algorithm bias. 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.800 And this type of market stall balance has lent itself 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.760 to digital surveillance. And why that's important for people to 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:24.600 know is that we know that computers do not discriminate. 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:26.560 They just don't wake up as hardware and say hey, 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.120 I'm going to be racist today. The people who are 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:34.280 behind the programming and execution and evaluation of these technologies. 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.760 First and foremost lack the rich diversity of folks that 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:43.120 are part of the broader population of these United States 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.560 and our global world. We're not getting those models made 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.440 by us to reflect our lived experiences. But most importantly, 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.560 and my friend doctor Renee Cummings at the University of 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.600 Virginia says this, the data that these models are relying 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:02.159 on are traumatized because they come with a series of 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:07.840 baked in historical and systemic injustices. Things like the over 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.600 incarceration and the rest of black people get baked into 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.520 models that then make decisions on whether or not you 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:19.960 should be released or detained, or the use of mugshot 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:24.840 data for facial recognition technology, which denies our ability to 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:26.720 be seen not as criminals. 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.159 It's really a vicious cycle of the same old discrimination 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.520 being reproduced and reinforced in new technology. Now, the thing 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.080 we have heard about and probably experience is that, you know, 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:38.760 for people with darker skin, you're going to put your 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.679 hand under the sink to get the automatic water. Sometimes 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:43.080 it doesn't work. You got to show this side of 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.159 your hand, you know, But it doesn't stop. There multiple 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.240 studies have shown that there is a demographic gap Asian 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:54.560 African American Native American people are misidentified and given false 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.200 positive rates in these kind of monitoring studies all the time. 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.520 There was also a federal report that confirmed the same thing. 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.879 I feel like one hundred times more likely that's not 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:10.240 a Rounding era dog like that's. 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.240 You might as well just say it ain't happening, right. 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:13.720 It feels intentionally helpful. 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.840 It feels not good, not useful, right. 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.399 And that's what we have to be really careful in 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.560 terms of the evolution of these technologies and also what 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.720 we believe about what people say on these platforms. You know, 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:31.320 twenty sixteen, foreign operatives use technology to convince us not 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.879 to vote, the greatest form of voter suppression ever experienced. 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.480 But the problem we had nobody to tell and no 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:42.359 recourse because his technologies are pretty much unregulated. 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:44.920 This is such a good point that I feel like 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:49.400 it's so important to remember. It's like you're either digitally 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.760 invisible and paying attacks on one end, or you're hyper 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.760 visible and surveilled in paying attacks on the other. 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.679 You got it. Look, I ain't gonna lie. 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.680 I like it when I get marketed my black high 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.879 heel shoes, or when I get my little recommendation to 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.679 go check out my local consignment shop, but I don't 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:11.040 like it, as Latanya Sweeney at Harvard suggests, when they 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:15.600 can identify by my name La Kwan Lakeisha Jose that 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:18.919 I'm a person of color, and therefore I get higher 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:24.199 interest credit card offerings or more predatory services. That's the 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.480 type of trauma that these systems rely on, and that's 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.679 where it's so inescapable, you know. And what we find 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:36.200 is that this algorithmic amplification, half of us don't even 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.679 realize that this is happening to you because it's so 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:39.960 opaque as well. 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.800 Okay, very very true, very very real. 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.280 Let's take a break, and when we come back, we'll 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:48.800