1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker, Folks. 3 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: I have been vacillating in my feelings these days, as 4 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, because you listen to me all the time 5 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: that I find and you tell me this, I find 6 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: that the more that I tap in to, let's say, 7 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: the toxic dump known as Twitter, the more anxious and 8 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,959 Speaker 1: uncertain I feel about this election. Now. While we know 9 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: that we're not going to know who won until probably 10 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: days or a week or whatever, depending on the amount 11 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: of fuckery that Republicans do, and they're showing that they 12 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: are willing to do a lot leading up to the election, 13 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: I find that the more that I stay in spaces 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: like Twitter and on social media in general, the more 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: anxious I become. When I'm just like focusing on the 16 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: good that's being done, the zoom calls that are still happening, 17 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: the organizing that is happening, I feel more possible. And 18 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: then I start to realize that that is the point, right, 19 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 1: The point of social media these days is to amp 20 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: up your anxiety, amp up your fear, keep you glued 21 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: on the app, right, because the more anxious and fearfully feel, 22 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: the less likely you are to actually log off, because 23 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: if you log off, then you'll miss something, right, So 24 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: you just have to kind of remind yourself when you 25 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: fall into like that anxiety rabbit hole, that this is 26 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: the trap that social media has created for us. And 27 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: so I just offered that because I found myself in 28 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: it and started to feel like this was insurmountable, We're 29 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: not going to do it, and all of the energy 30 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: was beginning to be zaz. I had to remind myself. 31 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: I had to take a beat. I had to take 32 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: a breath and say that social media is not a 33 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: place for guidance, for education, for connecting like minded spirits. 34 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: It's actually for working the anxious algorithm right to get 35 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: you to stay in this like hellhole of a space, 36 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: particularly on Elon Musk's fucking you know broke down site. 37 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: I do find that when I engage in conversations like 38 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: the one that I'm bringing you today on WOKF that 39 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: I feel more connected and more possible. And so today 40 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm in conversation with author Matt Farrance. Matt is the 41 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: author of the book I Hate It. Here please vote 42 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: for me essays on Rural Political Decay. And I just 43 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: loved this conversation with Matt Farence because one he ran 44 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: for office in a world district read district in Pennsylvania, 45 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: and we talk about what kind of obstacles he was 46 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: met with and what we can learn from the running 47 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: of his own race, but also you know of his 48 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: life living in being a progressive and living in rural America. 49 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 1: So I really enjoyed this conversation a lot. I encourage 50 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: you to check out Matt's book, which is available now, 51 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: I Hate It Here. Please vote for me essays on 52 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: Rural Political Decay and we will put the link in 53 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: the show notes so that you can easily access it. Folks. 54 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: I am very happy to welcome to ok F a 55 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: daily author and former candidate for office, Matthew Ferrence, who 56 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: is the author of the book I Hate It Here. 57 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: Please vote for me essays on Rural Political Decay. First off, 58 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: Bravo on the title. And also I watched your book trailer, 59 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: which I absolutely loved, like that. It was so cool, 60 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: so well done. Folks. Will put a link to it 61 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: in the show notes so folks can watch it. But 62 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: talk to us, you know, let's just jump in about 63 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: the title of your book and why why did you 64 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: come up with the you know, I hate it here? 65 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: And why do we need to be talking about rural 66 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: areas and rural voters. 67 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 2: So the I hate it here, please vote for me 68 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: refers to me. So I grew up in a rural space, 69 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 2: in formal country, on a farm. But also my dad 70 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 2: was an environmental science professor whose dad was a coal miner, 71 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 2: and I grew up with values. And I should say 72 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: my parents are are and still are Republicans, but have 73 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 2: not voted for the current Republican situation, which is important 74 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: to think about. So my democratic values, my progressive democratic values, 75 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 2: come from a rural place. But as soon as I 76 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 2: became a candidate, I became an outsider and someone who 77 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: wasn't welcome, which is not an unfamiliar feeling for most 78 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 2: of my life. So the I hate it here is 79 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: I hate it that we're in this place and that 80 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 2: I live in a place that would deny me and 81 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 2: others who have similar values as counting. And also that 82 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 2: we're in that place as a nation where we've split 83 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: it off into ways that where you grow up tells 84 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: you everything you need to know. We're either rud or blue, 85 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 2: and that's it. I hate that, and so I decided 86 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: to run for office because I recognized that who I 87 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 2: was wasn't being valued in the place. I had a 88 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 2: very petty reason for running my initial motivation, which I'm 89 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: sure we'll get to at some point, but the less 90 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 2: petty is that we need to hear folks who do 91 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: exist in rural spaces standing up and saying I'm from 92 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: here and I believe in things, so it's not just 93 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:54,239 Speaker 2: given away. 94 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: I love the fact that you have coined yourself as 95 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: a rural progressive. Yeah, and I think that when a 96 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: lot of people hear that term, they'll probably think, well, 97 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: that is an oxymoron, because we have been so socialized 98 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: into believing that there is one type of rural person. Right. 99 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: I live in this vast space of land because I 100 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: don't want to be around people that are different from me, 101 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: that speak different from me, that look different from me. 102 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: Can you speak to what it means to identify as 103 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: a rule progressive and why it's important for us, I think, 104 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: to get out of our echo chambers so that we 105 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: can hear people like you. 106 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually one of the most gratifying parts of 107 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: the book, and the response to the book is actually 108 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: fellow progressives who don't come from rural spaces saying, oh, 109 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 2: I haven't thought about rural places in what matters practically speaking. 110 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 2: I think there's allyship to be made because a lot 111 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: of the actual values and assistance that people in rural 112 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: places are asking for our progressive values. And I'm thinking 113 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 2: to a particular chapter in the book where I'm right 114 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: about going to a farm bureau legislative tour day, and 115 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: so our county farm bureau, none of whom we're going 116 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: to vote for me, let's be clear. I mean maybe 117 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: one or two, but for the most part, they're not 118 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: going to they're defined as Republicans. We're asking the legislators 119 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: there for investment, public broadband, for price control, help for 120 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: milk because they can't make a living, and a couple 121 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: other things I can't remember off the top of my 122 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: head that were basically all Democratic pitches, and the Republican 123 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: elected officials that were there, in a few different ways 124 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: said that's not going to happen. And for me, that's 125 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,679 Speaker 2: the recognition that even the labeling of progressive shuts down 126 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: an allyship that should be there. You know, farmers have 127 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: been left out in the cold from the austerity politics 128 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: that prevail. They need assistance. And because we think there 129 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: aren't any progressives in rural spaces, GOP candidates, especially MAGA 130 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: GOP candidates don't have to try hard, and Democratic candidates 131 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: don't show up because they don't think there's any strategic value. 132 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 2: So by standing up saying I exist as a real 133 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 2: progressive is an invitation for those conversations that could have 134 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: practical value. 135 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: It's funny because I think about the ways that to 136 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: some extent, farmers have been and I'll say farmers, and 137 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: I mean white farmers have been subsidized by the government 138 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: for decades upon decades upon decades. We just, you know, 139 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: recently saw a decision to give back I think it 140 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: was like two point three billion dollars to black farmers 141 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: who have been readily pushed out of opportunities to build 142 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: out their farms, to get government subsidies, to you know, 143 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: to have all of these things. And you know, this 144 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 1: is a story that is as old as the country. 145 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: So I just ask you that on the farmer side 146 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: of it, because when I think about rural America, that's 147 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: what I think about, right, But I also know to 148 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: be true that the single family American farmers are pretty 149 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: much dead, right, that they have all been taken over 150 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: and corporatized and basically have turned the single family farmer 151 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: into the sharecroppers of the nineteenth century. Yeah. 152 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: Well, there's so much in what you were saying there. 153 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: First of all, is like you're speaking of the existence 154 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 2: of black farmers, right, I know, crazy, right, Yeah, And 155 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 2: that's part of the problem of this political storytelling is 156 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: that it washes out a huge membership in the agricultural 157 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 2: community and also a huge rural membership there. I mean, 158 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 2: there are a lot of rural Black Americans who are 159 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: not captured in the rural American values that prevailed. And 160 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 2: I think as a rural white progressive, it's important for 161 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 2: me to recognize that and speak to that because that's 162 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: another of those allyships that have similar issues and concerns 163 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 2: and need to be working together. And already I'm talking 164 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: about the construction of racial identity, and like the actual 165 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: origin of white trash as a racial category was because 166 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 2: you know, the plantation owners are like, oh crap, it's 167 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 2: the impoverished white men side with the free black men 168 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 2: were screwed. So as long as we can create the 169 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 2: capital of whiteness as well at least you're not black, 170 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: at least, then we can hold political power. And that's 171 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: a story to no one tells them. I mean not 172 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: no one, but no one tells that story in politics, 173 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: and instantaneously that should change elections overnight, because the person 174 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 2: who can't afford to run his farm in rural Pennsylvania 175 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 2: recognizes he's got the same problems as the farmer in Alabama, 176 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: the black farmer in Alabama, and maybe they actually have 177 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: the same social values and they really do. 178 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 1: That is the LBJ quote, right, that if you can 179 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: teach the poorest white man that he's better than the 180 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: best black man, then you can pick his pockets for free. 181 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: That is essentially that quote. And you just played that 182 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: out for us. Visually. Talk to us about what happened 183 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: in your race in particular, and the lack of support 184 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: that you received from Democrats to even even make headway 185 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: into what was going to be considered really harsh winds 186 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: to begin with, right, And you know, from. 187 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 2: A political perspective, I completely understand this, because politics are 188 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 2: about strategy, and mine is an unwinnable race. I'm not 189 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 2: saying I like this, but that's the reality. So that 190 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: the example that I have is that our then lieutenant governor, 191 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 2: who's very tall and bald and now in the Senate 192 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: and you probably know what I'm talking about, did show 193 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 2: up at our spring breakfast, which is the kickoff, and 194 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: he didn't talk about my race, and he didn't talk 195 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 2: about the woman who was running in the US Congress race. 196 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: He did tell everybody that their job in a place 197 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 2: where Democrats can't win is to get more votes for 198 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 2: Joe Biden. And that was a really eye opening moment 199 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: of how the strategy of statewide and federal Democratic Party 200 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: people that have the money, I don't look for a 201 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: better word than that, they're not going to invest in 202 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 2: these places because they're run winnable. And in that same year, 203 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 2: the Pennsylvania Democratic Party poured it was more than a 204 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 2: million dollars into a state Senate race in what was 205 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: considered a flippable race in the outskirts of Erie, Pennsylvania, 206 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: and they lost. And if you put one hundred thousand 207 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 2: dollars in a race like in my county, you could 208 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 2: actually make a dent. And it was that recognition that 209 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: there's a way they're not showing up politically that it's 210 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 2: also reflecting the way they're not showing up in voice. 211 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 2: The flip side of that is, most of the time, 212 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 2: what I see when someone decides to run as a 213 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 2: Democrat in a conservative area where they probably won't win, 214 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: they're going to modulate their message and try to run 215 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 2: on what I would call a Republican light platform, which 216 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 2: seems like an absolute abdication of power. Is that if 217 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 2: you're going to lose anyway, you might as well as 218 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: I write yeah, yeah, and like speak it so that 219 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 2: voters can hear. And that's I hope there was a 220 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: little bit of traction there in my race. You know. 221 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: One thing, I was running on a single payer healthcare, 222 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: which would be a game changer in a high poverty 223 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 2: district like ours. That people could hear that and say, well, 224 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: wait a minute, that I can't vote for him because 225 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 2: he's an evil Democrat and he looks like Trotsky, which 226 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 2: is what they said about me, And and that Nancy 227 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 2: Pelosi was on my speed dial if only I had 228 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 2: access through the money and power. But maybe they heard, 229 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 2: oh it's true, I can't afford to go to the doctor. 230 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 2: And yeah, maybe that is a system that's been set 231 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 2: up that disfavors me. It can move the political window 232 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: in some way by instead of run on whatever family 233 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 2: value are. Now that I've been hearing that all my life, 234 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 2: I don't know what they mean. 235 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: Right, And I think that that's true. Just going back 236 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: to your point on losing as yourself right, because I 237 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: think that, look, we understand that money has too much 238 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: of a central role in our politics. I think that 239 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: our presidential race is now run into the billions of 240 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: dollars right where we're talking about congressional seats running into 241 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: the tens of millions of dollars and in some cases 242 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: hundreds depending on the location. And so we get it. 243 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: You have a finite amount of money, so you have 244 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: to be really smart about how you spend it and 245 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: where you spread it. I get that as a Democratic 246 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: National committee. However, if you look at every area that 247 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: is hard as potentially unwinnable, then you're never going to 248 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: actually move the needle like you have to. You know 249 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: what we've said, and I think that the person that 250 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: said it so many years ago we needed a fifty 251 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: state strategy. You need to be able to look at 252 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: places that may be read by right now, but like 253 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: they may not be in fifteen twenty, you know, thirty 254 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: forty years, but if you don't put in the work 255 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: and the infrastructure little by little in order to get 256 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: those places to move. Because what are we seeing? People 257 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: are leaving cities? Yes, right, because cities have become unaffordable. 258 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: The suburbs have become unaffordable. So you're seeing lots of 259 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: young people move into lower cost areas and to build 260 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: up their lives from there because they can afford to 261 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: buy homes, they can afford to buy land, all of 262 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: these things. So knowing that one hundred thousand dollars could 263 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: have been a game changer, it could have at least 264 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: been an opportunity to seed education and that being what's needed. 265 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And to your point about cost and what 266 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 2: I think about. In Meadville, Pennsylvania, I am or small 267 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: college town. You can buy a house for one hundred 268 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: thousand dollars and in some cases less than one hundred 269 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: thousand dollars, And so a young person can actually establish 270 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: a life or a life that's more of their own 271 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: choosing here than they can if they're paying four times 272 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 2: that to rent something in an urban area, but a 273 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: lot of my students would struggle with staying in a 274 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: place like this because they're made to feel unwelcome, and 275 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: that's part of the work of politics can help change that, 276 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 2: and we're seeing it in our city. Our city council 277 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: actually is progressive in our little town and they're really 278 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: investing in community and rental issues because they know that 279 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 2: that can actually change what it means to live here. 280 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: And the hope is that even the haters start to recognize, oh, 281 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: a revitalized downtown, a stronger community feeling is good for everybody, 282 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 2: and that starts to wash away those national level political 283 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: talking points, those stories that consume us. But if you're 284 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 2: not here, if you're not investing between elections, that's the 285 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 2: other part. If you're not showing up, if the only 286 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 2: thing you see rural America for is a way to 287 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 2: quote win at the margins, and that's true, but a 288 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 2: little bit demeaning. And as you say, there's a lot 289 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 2: of populations that support the Democratic Party that have experienced 290 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 2: that is they count because they help sin those margins. 291 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 2: But if you're not showing up to actually care, you're 292 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: not going to change it, and you're not going to 293 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,239 Speaker 2: create that future world that I hope most of us 294 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 2: would prefer to live in. 295 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: Talk to me about the very top of the ticket 296 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: right that we are dealing with right now, the seismic 297 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 1: shift that happened with the move of Vice President Kamala 298 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: Harris and Governor Tim Walls. Yeah, Tim Walls has come 299 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: in at a time when white, toxic male masculinity has 300 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: taken over. 301 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 302 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: Right. Demographic number show right. Poll's show that young white 303 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: men generation Z so I want to say, like in 304 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: their early twenties, are more likely to align with Donald 305 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: Trump and the Republican Party than they are with Democrats. 306 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: The same goes with some Latino men. And again it 307 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: is this model, this idea of we need gender roles 308 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: to be tighter and stricter. Women need to be in 309 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: their place, The gays need to go someplace that we 310 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: don't have to see them. Black people need to be 311 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: put in their place, you know, et cetera, et cetera. 312 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: What do you make of the introduction of a Tim 313 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: Walls type of white guy into the democratic sphere. 314 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 2: I was astonished that he was the pick, and astonished 315 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 2: in a good way. And what I'm thinking of right 316 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,479 Speaker 2: now is. It's an image that's in my brain, and 317 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: it was at the convention when Kamalo was officially identically 318 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 2: everybody knew already, but officially the votes were in, and 319 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: his face, in his mechanism of supporting her in that 320 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 2: moment read as authentic and very number two. And I 321 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: think this is important to that conversation, not as the 322 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 2: old Life's not that old middle aged white guy VP 323 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:12,719 Speaker 2: who's really the one in charge. He's demonstrating a masculinity 324 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: that is able to be assisting, is able to be 325 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 2: supportive to women, to women of color, to people who 326 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: identify in LGBTQ community. That is offering. I think, first 327 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: of all, a beacon for a lot of young men 328 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 2: who are maybe made to feel that they don't count 329 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 2: as men even right there's a lot of exclusion. What 330 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about is, well, I guess I'm not a 331 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 2: real man, and it's embarrassing for our culture to be 332 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: talking about that in twenty twenty four, because you know, 333 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 2: I'm not that young, and we already knew when I 334 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 2: was in high school that was stupid. But then the contrast, 335 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 2: and I'm terrified by the contrast. But it's fascinating the 336 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,719 Speaker 2: VP candidate on the other side, who's a protein shape shifter, 337 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 2: is presenting a very quote traditional toxic masculinity of very 338 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 2: much put everybody back in their place, bully people, and 339 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: that kind of aggressive rural manhood. And so the brilliance 340 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 2: of Tim Walls is also coming out of a rural space. 341 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: Who did win? I mean it was kind of a 342 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 2: toss up district. You didn't win in an impossible red district, 343 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 2: but you wanted a red leaning district with the values 344 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 2: of care and attention. That for me, has more than 345 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 2: political power. That has you know, being able to see 346 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: men in positions where they're not going to continue to 347 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 2: repeat those toxic examples for future generations. Is everything about 348 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 2: the future of not just politics but our daily life 349 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: and politics again, I'm gonna say it twice. Politics. 350 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: With just the minute or so that we have left, 351 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: tell me what your hope is for people reading this book. 352 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: What do you hope that they can take away from 353 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: it that they can understand more when they're finished. 354 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: The big part is to understand that the category of 355 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 2: rural is a lot bigger than people think it is. 356 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 2: That's the broadest takeaway and one of the things we 357 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 2: haven't talked about is. I talked about poetry a lot 358 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: in the book, and the idea that all of these 359 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 2: stereotypes that make rural identity small are actually removing the 360 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 2: horizons of imagination, and that if we allow for the 361 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: expansiveness of rural identity, we're allowing for imagination, We're allowing 362 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 2: the capacity for hope in the future, and that just 363 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 2: makes our lives better and could change. Well, it could 364 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: maintain democracy. Let's put it that way. 365 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: It can maintain it. Matt Barren, thank you so much 366 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: for making the time for willkf Daily Folks. The book 367 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: is I hate it here? Please vote for me. Will 368 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: put a link in the show notes so that you 369 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: can easily access it. Really appreciate this conversation and thank 370 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: you for bringing attention to progressive rule folks like yourself. 371 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me, Danielle. 372 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: All right, friends, stay hopeful, stay together, stay off of 373 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: that anxious, horrible, toxic site Twitter. That is it for 374 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: me today, Dear friends on Woke af as always, Power 375 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: to the people and to all the people. Power, get 376 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: woke and stay woke as fuck.