WEBVTT - Episode 36: Stan Utley 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:02.400 The guys from Ping. They've kind of showed me how 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.120 much the equipment matters. I just love that I can 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:06.600 hit any shot I kind of want. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.520 We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:10.640 what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:13.720 Welcome back to the Pink Proving Grounds podcast here at 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:15.640 the PGA Show. I know this is coming out a 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:17.480 little bit later than the show, but if you listen 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:19.959 and you're hearing the acoustics, that's what it is. And 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:21.720 Marty Jerts and I've been waiting for this one for 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:23.960 a long time. We got a legend with us today. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:24.720 Yeah, this is fun. 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:26.799 One of my favorite people in the golf world, the 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:30.080 short game master who's touched and helped so many golfers, 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.360 Stan Nutley, with us here today. Stan, I want to 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.879 start with the first question. How many putters do you 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:38.200 have in the gold putter vault? 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:43.600 I have four. I'm waiting to get a wedge in 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:44.680 there too, though. 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.400 And why should there be a wedge in there? Stan? 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.519 I made two bucker shots and had six putts and 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:52.519 nine holes. I thought I could get my wedge, but. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:53.960 In there, I don't. 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:56.280 Do you think your record So Stan's talking about his 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.520 record Shane for least number of putts and nine holes 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:00.320 on the PGA. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:04.280 Yeah, two thousand and two Aeric Canada Championship. Stan out 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.560 least six putts and nine holes. It's so unfathomable that 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.080 I actually googled to make sure that that's the right number. 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.200 Six putts of night holes. So you had two. So 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:14.039 so walk us through that round. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:14.720 So to night. 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.720 Let's get to the most impressive record that I know 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:21.080 that I have. Okay, you gotta do some math here. 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.640 I'm certain that I have the most shots ever hit 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:27.560 from off the green in an underpart score on nine holes. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:29.840 What's that number? 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.440 Well, I was good enough to have six putts and 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:35.720 nine holes and only shot one under. So that's twenty 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:37.360 nine shots. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.319 Now, if that's not spoken like a true golfer, Marty 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.480 somehow finding the negative in something positive. But uh yeah, 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.280 we appreciate you taking a little bit of time with us. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.360 It's a good for the rest of the story comment. 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.960 That's exactly right, uh Stan, When you were playing, I've 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.680 always wondered this about coaching. You're playing, and you're obviously 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.600 playing and having some success, when do you decide to 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.600 make that switch when you decide I'm not going to 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.040 play anymore, I'm going to get into coaching, and how 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:06.640 do you navigate that new endeavor in your life. Obviously 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.360 with so much focus being on in myself and how I. 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.840 Play, well, there's a couple things that I could tell 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.280 on that story. But my daughter Tatum, sitting over here 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:21.440 to the side as we shoot this, and my wife 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.399 and my two kids one day when I got back 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:28.720 in the car, made an announcement. They said, we don't 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.280 mind you teaching that guy on the putting green while 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.679 we're waiting, and we don't mind if you're practicing while 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:38.840 we're waiting, but if you're teaching him, he's got to 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.880 pay you. And that was really a moment that changed 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:46.160 the course of my career because prior to being able 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.040 to tell people they had to pay me, because my 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:52.040 wife said that only my buddies asked for help, and 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.720 when they were okay to pay me, then guys started 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:58.200 asking for help that weren't my close friends, and that 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:03.160 was part of the transition. But the real moment, the 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.480 defining moment of my switch over was Jay Hass asked 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.359 me for a punting tip, and prior to social media. 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:13.520 The only way to become a kind of a notable 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.919 coach was have a tour player say something nice. And 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.440 that moment when he did better and said I helped him, 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.360 it became apparent that I probably needed to move toward 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.320 coaching versus just keep playing. 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:28.120 What year? What a round year? Do you know what 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:28.600 that was? 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.000 It was a two thousand and one when he asked 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.280 for a tip, and by two thousand and three I 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.040 was coaching a bunch of teur players. I didn't really 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.680 hang the clubs up until midway through two thousand and five. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.520 Yes, Dan, you've touched so many golfers, not only tour 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.000 players and your peers that you've coached, right, but also 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:53.400 a lot of you know, your everyday golfers, high handicappers, males, females, juniors. 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:54.960 That's who I teach every day. 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:55.800 Yeah. 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:00.560 So, what are some of the big things and short 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.720 game you know from maybe a principal standpoint that you 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.760 like to see, say in general, or a common pattern 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.240 of the high handicapper to help them improve around the greens. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.240 Well, a couple. I do have to say this. One 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.000 of my sayings I like to throw out is best 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.919 questions wins so we think that that kind of applies 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.240 to all of life. Like, you're in the business asking questions. 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.440 So I asked my students right off the bat, I said, 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.240 if you had somebody come to you that had never 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.919 played golf, how would you tell them to make a 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.400 putting stroke? And all of a sudden, if I can 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:42.800 get them to answer that question, I get in there 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.560 with their mind and I start to learn what they 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:51.680 know and think about putting. And like, one truth that 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.880 people I think misinterpret is people think you should accelerate 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.680 through the ball when you hit a putt, and yet 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.960 I see the majority of best putters have short fallities. 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.039 Yeah yeah, so I don't. 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:07.800 Think they're speeding up when they hit the ball. They 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.600 speed up early in the downswing. An impact is more 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.839 of a coasting action. One of the things they say 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:20.240 sometimes is the clips should go straight back and straight through. Well, 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.680 I have to explain that the tool that I used 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:28.120 to putt with has a stick coming up out of 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.279 it at seventy degree tilt. It's not really designed to 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:33.480 travel in a straight line. 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:33.960 Yeah. 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.440 Yeah, it might be a pendulum, but the pendulum's on 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.560 a seventy degree tilt or somewhere near that. So that's 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.159 a couple things that I look for right off the 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.599 bat that the majority of bad putters are missing the 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.120 boat on those two aspects. 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:53.200 That approach of asking your player a question like that, 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.200 was that a skill you learned because you're so good 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:58.760 at it, You've done it with me, you've done I've 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.800 seen you do with a lot of of players. Or 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:02.840 is that something you picked up from a mentor or 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:03.680 teacher of yours. 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.640 Well, I don't know where I came up with it, 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.800 but I really figured it out when I was giving 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:13.159 a guy instruction and I feel like I had told 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.839 him the same thing for a year. Yeah, And in 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.120 one moment he turned around and said, but I'm gonna 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:24.760 whiff it. And I realized it wasn't that he was 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.520 terrible or that I was telling him the wrong stuff. 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.920 He truly had a belief that would not let him 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.280 hear my message and try my message. 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:35.560 Yeah. 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:39.560 And when that happened, I realized, I have to understand 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.800 what my student believes sometimes to get through the door 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.360 that they've put up. And they've put up those doors 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.360 consciously as well as subconsciously. They might not even know 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:54.720 they believe there. And that's where I really got honed 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.320 in on making sure I asked the right question so 0:06:57.400 --> 0:06:59.600 I can figure out what they know and believe. 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.120 It's probably that Wall is probably bigger and stronger in 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.400 the short game space, you know, chipping and putting. 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.880 I think it's true in all aspects of life, Like 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:13.000 the businessman coaching a new employee. The kid's gone to 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.840 college and learned something that's just absolutely not true. But 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.120 the guy hired him didn't know that he wasn't going 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:18.920 to do what he said. 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.680 Yeah, Stan, when did you fall in love with the 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.080 short game? What was it like for you growing up? 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.520 And when did you realize you had this kind of 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:28.640 incredible ability? 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:33.160 Well, I have to say that my golf came out 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:38.400 of a failure. I did not make it into the NBA. 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.600 I intended to be a professional basketball player. 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:44.720 How was your outside range? Was it good? 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:50.000 Well? My ability to throw it toward the goal was high. 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:51.600 I don't know about making it, but I was good 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:52.360 at putting it up. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.680 You're a high volume shooters, Yeah, that's right. 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.920 What I learned about basketball, though, is if you're not 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.480 fast enough to guard to anybody, you kind of sit 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.000 next to the coach no matter how good you shoot ye. 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.920 But why I would say that is I was just 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.720 sneaky competitive enough in basketball that I learned to shoot 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.680 left handed as a little boy, so I could win 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.120 all the horse games. Because my buddy wouldn't learn to 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.960 shoot a left handed layup and the ability to put 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.280 spin on a basketball and then transition that into ping 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.640 pong and then start playing golf. It didn't dawn on me. 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.680 I wasn't supposed to use my golf clubs the same 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:37.239 way I used my ping pong paddle. So I understood 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.640 English on a golf ball or a basketball or a 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:46.040 ping pong ball really early in my golf career. And 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.360 I think that, along with the fact that my mentor, 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.559 mister Landing, taught me of basically a perfect golf grip, 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.240 led to being very creative. 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.559 So do you feel like the short game is creative? 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.000 Is that the way you kind of look at it? 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:05.880 That's how I saw it, because every situation truly is 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.439 different in some aspect. If you thought about it that 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.480 no two lines are identical. They're closed, they're similar, but 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:17.960 they're not identical, so you have to analyze the situation. 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:23.760 I can actually see the trajectory the land spot. I 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.520 think I have a tremendous sense of the spin I 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:30.360 put on the ball. And mister Lanning said, to master 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.880 the short game, you had to master the first bounce. 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.560 So I could make the ball make do in the 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.079 first bounce what I wanted it to do. And I 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.720 always had a knack for it. But there was a 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:46.120 back end how I got there. 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:48.080 What's the back end? 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:54.720 The story about being a basketball was very creative. I 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:56.880 played a lot of sports. I was the pitcher, I 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:01.160 was the quarterback, I was the point guard. I think 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.520 it helps to play a diverse amount of sports. 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:06.839 It's like that book Range I've been reading that. 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.040 You know now that we have kids, and stand's gonna 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:14.120 be inspirational in that regard what stan Let's transition a 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.880 little bit. We just launched our new S one fifty 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:22.240 nine wedges a little bit to how you marry finding 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.280 the right grind for your player with their instruction. You know, 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:29.439 how does course conditions, turf conditions come into play grain. 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:31.760 You know that's kind of a big question. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.800 But then also how do you marry getting your player 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.160 into the right grind with their instruction. 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.880 Well, we're still trying to master the answer to that. Question. 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:46.560 It's a never ending question, I think. 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:51.760 I think my first response is if it's an experienced 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.880 player that's ever been any good, their hands are already 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.839 accustomed to a certain feel of the club in the dirt. 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:06.600 So although I probably fit into the S grind best, yeah, 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:11.240 I play the E grind Yeah, because I've hit countless 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.280 shots with an old I to wedge, So that's an 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.439 easy one for me. And I think guys that are 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:20.880 fifty years old and older that have played a lot 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.319 of golf, they kind of have a feel in a sense. 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.840 So I'm gonna I'm going to marry them towards what 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:30.640 they've probably always had. The person that's just really horrible, 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.240 I'm probably gonna lean a little bit toward more bounds 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.560 for them. Yeah, So I'm going to lean toward the 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.559 toward the w or the age, Yeah, a little bit. 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.400 I'm going to give them more more kick off the back. 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.360 There's certain people that like to maybe release the club 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.400 a little earlier. They're going to like the new B groun. 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:52.360 Yeah, But. 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.160 I don't know that you can really answer that question 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:57.720 without getting them to hit some shots. 0:11:57.800 --> 0:11:59.360 Yeah. Yeah. 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.920 My My issue is most people that see me that 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:07.040 come to see me are broken. So I spent a 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.720 lot of time trying to put them back together before. 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:14.480 I worry about fitting them a lot. But the thing 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.760 that amazes me is is our wedge is at Peen 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:25.120 truly managed spin better than anybody in the industry. And 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:27.960 for no other reason. The young players that are coming 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:32.920 to me, I'm trying to have them understand that you 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:34.959 need to be in control of your golf ball when 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:39.120 the conditions aren't perfect, and that's the one aspect we're 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:39.960 going to always win. 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:44.839 Yeah, we put a lot of R and D into 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.480 the friction between the golf ball and the club face. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:49.880 That's a mysterious thing. 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.400 When when I was back at the plan and I 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.880 saw the I don't know how many times you blew 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.240 up the face. But what's the answer to that. 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:03.120 Yeah, when we magnifies and look at these basically Shane 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.720 what Stan is talking about. We blast the face, We 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.280 mill it, we blast the face. 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.760 And when you say blast the face. 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:15.320 Like like like a media uh that's engineered to maximize 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.319 the stick between the cover of the ball and the face. 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.080 Okay, and we scan it with this special scanner. 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.120 We blow it up and we three D printed and 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.120 it looks like the sharper than the Himalayas. 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:28.520 Really, that's what's grabbing. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.920 It's unbelievable. If you're not playing a ping wed, you're 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:35.480 cheating yourself out of control. 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.000 Oh yeah, super sharp, and that's what's grabbing the ball. 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.360 That's what's grabbing the ball. Now we've done some videos 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.480 with Stan he's talking about the conditions not being perfect 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:47.840 where he's chipping out at the proving grounds on a nice, beautiful, 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.240 dry summer day. It looks it looks dry. We zoom 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.040 the camera in and what's getting squeezed? Uh, when when 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.400 you're landing the club on the ground before it hits 0:13:58.440 --> 0:13:58.720 the ball. 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:00.760 Yeah, it's it's it's amazing. 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.640 Yeah, water getting squeezed out of the ground. 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.600 So that's something you told me when we first started 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.640 doing this podcast, was there's in theory, there isn't ideal 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.680 conditions because even ideal conditions, some debris or something's gonna 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.760 be between the face and the ball. It's one of 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.200 the reasons it's so important to be playing a wedge 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.200 that you can be as confident as stands talking about. 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.440 It unless you're unless you're hitting off a tee or 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.000 maybe some very nice Zoysia, you know, but. 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.200 I've played a couple of courses. I thought we should 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.320 have played Matt Golf, but they don't let you do that. 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:29.720 Exactly off of Matt. 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.680 Maybe you could get it to spend Stan. 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:34.880 What do you think? What do you think is the 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.960 role of bounce? I mean, I've heard you describe it 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.440 as the skid play some kick off the back. What 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.160 do you how do you think about the timing of 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:45.920 that turf interaction? 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:51.600 And I really think about it as I go back 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.880 and I talk about Gene Sarazen. Did he mean for 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.800 the club de land steeper, shallow relative to the front 0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:01.880 end to the club or the trail edge of the club. 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:08.040 And when a plane lands, I want that plane coming 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.480 in kind of shallow, landing on the back tires. And 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.920 if it does that, it might bounce a couple times, 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.720 but it stays close to the ground. And I think 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:27.239 people misinterpret steep and shallow like today it's a big buzzword. 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.400 Do we need to be steeper? Oh, the body needs 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.080 to be steep, but the club. I don't want my 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.760 club coming in with the shaft so much forward that 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.760 I land the fleet edge very often because the front 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:43.680 edge has almost no forgiveness. 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:45.640 Yeah, but if. 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.840 I can get the clubhead, the club head releases shallower 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:52.080 at the bottom. I steep an impact at the bottom 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:56.480 with my pivot, my body, my upper torso. But if 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.840 I can land the trail edge and keep the lead 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:00.960 edge up it just a little bit one or two 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.000 or three degrees, then I get a glide effect and 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.400 I have a lot more room for air through impact. 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:08.160 Yeah, I can. 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.320 Hit perfect, or I can hit a little fat and 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.200 still have the ball react very similar. Yeah, And I'm 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.560 looking for grace. I don't want to have to be perfect. 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:19.760 Yeah. Well put, yeah, well put. 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:25.160 And depending on the guy's swing, like the guy that's 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.120 really steep, he might need a little more of that 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:32.640 grace closer to the lead edge. Like for me, I 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:34.320 don't know if this is right to say, but like 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:39.120 the w wedge doesn't fit my land, yeah, because it's 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:43.520 rounded and I'm used to the bottom being flat and 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:45.520 getting the kick out of the back edge. 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:46.280 Yeah. 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.200 So everybody's got a little different feel in the bottom. 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.920 But I'm excited about the new S one F nine 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:57.000 because we have five different options. They can find it now. 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.440 Yeah, five and the E so six total total. 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.120 Yeah, it's amazing. 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.760 Yeah, Stan, you mentioned that a lot of the people 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:06.960 that come to you are broken when they come to 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.560 you in terms of their golf game. You famously worked 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.280 with Charles Barkley, who I would say probably fits the 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.280 mold of a broken golfer when he came to you. 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.600 How was that experience and how did that come together? 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:22.320 Why? I once have to say God is good because 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.480 what's the chance of a short game coach kind of 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:25.720 helping the worst swing and go. 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.240 That's a great point, right Like. 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.280 And it was funny when I ran into him at 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.399 Tom Layman's charity event in Phoenix. We had crossed paths 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.439 a couple times, but I didn't really know Charles, and 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.400 I said, look, I'd really like to have you hit 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:42.840 some balls. I want to watch it. He's like, man, 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.400 I've worked with everybody. I'm like, I hadn't watched it. 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.160 So he rambled out to Greyhawk. A few days later, 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.520 my son Jake and I watched him hit some balls, 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.679 and I kind of already knew what I was going 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.679 to tell him, but I asked him the questions about 0:17:57.760 --> 0:17:59.560 what he was thinking, how he got to where he 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.400 got to. He was so confused. 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.560 He didn't know too much information. 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.439 He didn't know, he didn't know how he became broken, 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.600 because at one time he was pretty good. Yeah, and 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.440 I think he didn't like getting beat, so he tried 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.280 to get better and he misinterpreted information or he got 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:23.320 bad information, one or the other. But honestly, I gave 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.480 him one tip. It took about forty minutes for him 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.720 to spit the tip back at me. But he said, 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:35.399 everybody knows he pulled down on the handle. And you 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:40.199 probably know, Michael Jacobs. Yep, he said something to me 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.399 a couple of years ago that kind of related to this. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:47.720 He said, golf clubs have balance points, and the physics 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.600 makes the club kind of teeter taughter around the balance points. 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.720 So if I influenced the grip, it has an influence 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.240 on the head. Well, if you think about it, Charles 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.520 pulled the grip down so hard that the head kept 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:03.119 going up on the downswing. That's why he got stuck. Interesting, 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:05.320 so there's a point where the head needs to go 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.879 down and the grip needs to go up, and I 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.320 helped him feel the head go down instead of just 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.200 the grip go down. And I did that by having 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.080 him use his wrist and basically throw the clubhead backwards. 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.280 Some people get worried about when I tell them to 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.600 use their wrist to throw the clubhead backwards. But the 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:25.600 way I get them to do that, it actually puts 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.520 pressure on the shaft. It creates proper lag on the club, 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.800 but it gets the club head moving away away in 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.280 the See in the end of the backswing, the clubheads 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.840 going toward the target. If you want the clubhead to circle, 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:41.639 it's got to go away from the target on the 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:42.600 downswing first. 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.040 Yeah, it's counterintuitive though, right, So it's. 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:46.600 Going away from the down it's going away from the 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:47.560 target on the downswing. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.600 It's the start of the downswing. All of us go 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:56.119 forward with our hands too early. Often it's just human nature. 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.800 Our mind's over there. We ain't supposed to go over 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.600 there first in the downs. So he turned around and 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:03.840 looked at me, and he said, you want me to 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.000 use my wrist to throw the clubhead back toward the trees. 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.880 We're on the back of the range at Greyhawk. He's 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:15.960 gotten better every day since then. One tip I've always 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:19.520 I've only I've only seen him maybe five times in 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:24.240 five years. We do not hang out, but he does 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.920 practice hard, and that was the one message he needed 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:30.560 and then he really went and dug it out of 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:31.160 the dirt. 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.720 So we go from Charles Barkley, who was a relative 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.680 broken golfer. You're somebody that studied golf for a long 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:39.920 long time. I know you mentioned Jean Says and earlier. 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:43.399 Who is on your mount rushmore of great short games? 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:45.680 If you had to put together a list of those 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.760 four names, I know I'm put you on the. 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.800 Spot here, that is, but I would think of savvy Okay. 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:53.840