1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: The guys from Ping. They've kind of showed me how 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: much the equipment matters. I just love that I can 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: hit any shot I kind of want. 4 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 2: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 5 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 2: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 6 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Pink Proving Grounds podcast here at 7 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 3: the PGA Show. I know this is coming out a 8 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 3: little bit later than the show, but if you listen 9 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 3: and you're hearing the acoustics, that's what it is. And 10 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 3: Marty Jerts and I've been waiting for this one for 11 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 3: a long time. We got a legend with us today. 12 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is fun. 13 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 2: One of my favorite people in the golf world, the 14 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: short game master who's touched and helped so many golfers, 15 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: Stan Nutley, with us here today. Stan, I want to 16 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 2: start with the first question. How many putters do you 17 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 2: have in the gold putter vault? 18 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 5: I have four. I'm waiting to get a wedge in 19 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 5: there too, though. 20 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: And why should there be a wedge in there? Stan? 21 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 5: I made two bucker shots and had six putts and 22 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 5: nine holes. I thought I could get my wedge, but. 23 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 4: In there, I don't. 24 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: Do you think your record So Stan's talking about his 25 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: record Shane for least number of putts and nine holes 26 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 2: on the PGA. 27 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, two thousand and two Aeric Canada Championship. Stan out 28 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 3: least six putts and nine holes. It's so unfathomable that 29 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 3: I actually googled to make sure that that's the right number. 30 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 3: Six putts of night holes. So you had two. So 31 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 3: so walk us through that round. 32 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: So to night. 33 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 5: Let's get to the most impressive record that I know 34 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 5: that I have. Okay, you gotta do some math here. 35 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 5: I'm certain that I have the most shots ever hit 36 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 5: from off the green in an underpart score on nine holes. 37 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: What's that number? 38 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 5: Well, I was good enough to have six putts and 39 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 5: nine holes and only shot one under. So that's twenty 40 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 5: nine shots. 41 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 3: Now, if that's not spoken like a true golfer, Marty 42 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 3: somehow finding the negative in something positive. But uh yeah, 43 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 3: we appreciate you taking a little bit of time with us. 44 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 5: It's a good for the rest of the story comment. 45 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: That's exactly right, uh Stan, When you were playing, I've 46 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 3: always wondered this about coaching. You're playing, and you're obviously 47 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 3: playing and having some success, when do you decide to 48 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 3: make that switch when you decide I'm not going to 49 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: play anymore, I'm going to get into coaching, and how 50 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 3: do you navigate that new endeavor in your life. Obviously 51 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 3: with so much focus being on in myself and how I. 52 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 5: Play, well, there's a couple things that I could tell 53 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 5: on that story. But my daughter Tatum, sitting over here 54 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 5: to the side as we shoot this, and my wife 55 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 5: and my two kids one day when I got back 56 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 5: in the car, made an announcement. They said, we don't 57 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 5: mind you teaching that guy on the putting green while 58 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 5: we're waiting, and we don't mind if you're practicing while 59 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 5: we're waiting, but if you're teaching him, he's got to 60 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 5: pay you. And that was really a moment that changed 61 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 5: the course of my career because prior to being able 62 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 5: to tell people they had to pay me, because my 63 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 5: wife said that only my buddies asked for help, and 64 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 5: when they were okay to pay me, then guys started 65 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 5: asking for help that weren't my close friends, and that 66 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 5: was part of the transition. But the real moment, the 67 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 5: defining moment of my switch over was Jay Hass asked 68 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 5: me for a punting tip, and prior to social media. 69 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 5: The only way to become a kind of a notable 70 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 5: coach was have a tour player say something nice. And 71 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 5: that moment when he did better and said I helped him, 72 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 5: it became apparent that I probably needed to move toward 73 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 5: coaching versus just keep playing. 74 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: What year? What a round year? Do you know what 75 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: that was? 76 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 5: It was a two thousand and one when he asked 77 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 5: for a tip, and by two thousand and three I 78 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 5: was coaching a bunch of teur players. I didn't really 79 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 5: hang the clubs up until midway through two thousand and five. 80 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 2: Yes, Dan, you've touched so many golfers, not only tour 81 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: players and your peers that you've coached, right, but also 82 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: a lot of you know, your everyday golfers, high handicappers, males, females, juniors. 83 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 5: That's who I teach every day. 84 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 85 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: So, what are some of the big things and short 86 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: game you know from maybe a principal standpoint that you 87 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: like to see, say in general, or a common pattern 88 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: of the high handicapper to help them improve around the greens. 89 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 5: Well, a couple. I do have to say this. One 90 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 5: of my sayings I like to throw out is best 91 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 5: questions wins so we think that that kind of applies 92 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 5: to all of life. Like, you're in the business asking questions. 93 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 5: So I asked my students right off the bat, I said, 94 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 5: if you had somebody come to you that had never 95 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 5: played golf, how would you tell them to make a 96 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 5: putting stroke? And all of a sudden, if I can 97 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 5: get them to answer that question, I get in there 98 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 5: with their mind and I start to learn what they 99 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 5: know and think about putting. And like, one truth that 100 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 5: people I think misinterpret is people think you should accelerate 101 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 5: through the ball when you hit a putt, and yet 102 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 5: I see the majority of best putters have short fallities. 103 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, so I don't. 104 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 5: Think they're speeding up when they hit the ball. They 105 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 5: speed up early in the downswing. An impact is more 106 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 5: of a coasting action. One of the things they say 107 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 5: sometimes is the clips should go straight back and straight through. Well, 108 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 5: I have to explain that the tool that I used 109 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 5: to putt with has a stick coming up out of 110 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 5: it at seventy degree tilt. It's not really designed to 111 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 5: travel in a straight line. 112 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. 113 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, it might be a pendulum, but the pendulum's on 114 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 5: a seventy degree tilt or somewhere near that. So that's 115 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 5: a couple things that I look for right off the 116 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 5: bat that the majority of bad putters are missing the 117 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 5: boat on those two aspects. 118 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: That approach of asking your player a question like that, 119 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: was that a skill you learned because you're so good 120 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: at it, You've done it with me, you've done I've 121 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: seen you do with a lot of of players. Or 122 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 2: is that something you picked up from a mentor or 123 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: teacher of yours. 124 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 5: Well, I don't know where I came up with it, 125 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 5: but I really figured it out when I was giving 126 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 5: a guy instruction and I feel like I had told 127 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 5: him the same thing for a year. Yeah, And in 128 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 5: one moment he turned around and said, but I'm gonna 129 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 5: whiff it. And I realized it wasn't that he was 130 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 5: terrible or that I was telling him the wrong stuff. 131 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 5: He truly had a belief that would not let him 132 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 5: hear my message and try my message. 133 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. 134 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 5: And when that happened, I realized, I have to understand 135 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 5: what my student believes sometimes to get through the door 136 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 5: that they've put up. And they've put up those doors 137 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 5: consciously as well as subconsciously. They might not even know 138 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 5: they believe there. And that's where I really got honed 139 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 5: in on making sure I asked the right question so 140 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 5: I can figure out what they know and believe. 141 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 2: It's probably that Wall is probably bigger and stronger in 142 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: the short game space, you know, chipping and putting. 143 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 5: I think it's true in all aspects of life, Like 144 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 5: the businessman coaching a new employee. The kid's gone to 145 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 5: college and learned something that's just absolutely not true. But 146 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 5: the guy hired him didn't know that he wasn't going 147 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 5: to do what he said. 148 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, Stan, when did you fall in love with the 149 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: short game? What was it like for you growing up? 150 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 3: And when did you realize you had this kind of 151 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 3: incredible ability? 152 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 5: Well, I have to say that my golf came out 153 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 5: of a failure. I did not make it into the NBA. 154 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 5: I intended to be a professional basketball player. 155 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: How was your outside range? Was it good? 156 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 5: Well? My ability to throw it toward the goal was high. 157 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 5: I don't know about making it, but I was good 158 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 5: at putting it up. 159 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: You're a high volume shooters, Yeah, that's right. 160 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 5: What I learned about basketball, though, is if you're not 161 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 5: fast enough to guard to anybody, you kind of sit 162 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 5: next to the coach no matter how good you shoot ye. 163 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 5: But why I would say that is I was just 164 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 5: sneaky competitive enough in basketball that I learned to shoot 165 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 5: left handed as a little boy, so I could win 166 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 5: all the horse games. Because my buddy wouldn't learn to 167 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 5: shoot a left handed layup and the ability to put 168 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 5: spin on a basketball and then transition that into ping 169 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 5: pong and then start playing golf. It didn't dawn on me. 170 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 5: I wasn't supposed to use my golf clubs the same 171 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,239 Speaker 5: way I used my ping pong paddle. So I understood 172 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 5: English on a golf ball or a basketball or a 173 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 5: ping pong ball really early in my golf career. And 174 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 5: I think that, along with the fact that my mentor, 175 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 5: mister Landing, taught me of basically a perfect golf grip, 176 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 5: led to being very creative. 177 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 3: So do you feel like the short game is creative? 178 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: Is that the way you kind of look at it? 179 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 5: That's how I saw it, because every situation truly is 180 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 5: different in some aspect. If you thought about it that 181 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 5: no two lines are identical. They're closed, they're similar, but 182 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 5: they're not identical, so you have to analyze the situation. 183 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 5: I can actually see the trajectory the land spot. I 184 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 5: think I have a tremendous sense of the spin I 185 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 5: put on the ball. And mister Lanning said, to master 186 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 5: the short game, you had to master the first bounce. 187 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 5: So I could make the ball make do in the 188 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 5: first bounce what I wanted it to do. And I 189 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 5: always had a knack for it. But there was a 190 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 5: back end how I got there. 191 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: What's the back end? 192 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 5: The story about being a basketball was very creative. I 193 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 5: played a lot of sports. I was the pitcher, I 194 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 5: was the quarterback, I was the point guard. I think 195 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 5: it helps to play a diverse amount of sports. 196 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 4: It's like that book Range I've been reading that. 197 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: You know now that we have kids, and stand's gonna 198 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: be inspirational in that regard what stan Let's transition a 199 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: little bit. We just launched our new S one fifty 200 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: nine wedges a little bit to how you marry finding 201 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: the right grind for your player with their instruction. You know, 202 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 2: how does course conditions, turf conditions come into play grain. 203 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 4: You know that's kind of a big question. 204 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 2: But then also how do you marry getting your player 205 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 2: into the right grind with their instruction. 206 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 5: Well, we're still trying to master the answer to that. Question. 207 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 4: It's a never ending question, I think. 208 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 5: I think my first response is if it's an experienced 209 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 5: player that's ever been any good, their hands are already 210 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 5: accustomed to a certain feel of the club in the dirt. 211 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 5: So although I probably fit into the S grind best, yeah, 212 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 5: I play the E grind Yeah, because I've hit countless 213 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 5: shots with an old I to wedge, So that's an 214 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 5: easy one for me. And I think guys that are 215 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 5: fifty years old and older that have played a lot 216 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 5: of golf, they kind of have a feel in a sense. 217 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 5: So I'm gonna I'm going to marry them towards what 218 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 5: they've probably always had. The person that's just really horrible, 219 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 5: I'm probably gonna lean a little bit toward more bounds 220 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 5: for them. Yeah, So I'm going to lean toward the 221 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 5: toward the w or the age, Yeah, a little bit. 222 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 5: I'm going to give them more more kick off the back. 223 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 5: There's certain people that like to maybe release the club 224 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 5: a little earlier. They're going to like the new B groun. 225 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, But. 226 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 5: I don't know that you can really answer that question 227 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 5: without getting them to hit some shots. 228 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. 229 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 5: My My issue is most people that see me that 230 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 5: come to see me are broken. So I spent a 231 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 5: lot of time trying to put them back together before. 232 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 5: I worry about fitting them a lot. But the thing 233 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 5: that amazes me is is our wedge is at Peen 234 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 5: truly managed spin better than anybody in the industry. And 235 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 5: for no other reason. The young players that are coming 236 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 5: to me, I'm trying to have them understand that you 237 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 5: need to be in control of your golf ball when 238 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 5: the conditions aren't perfect, and that's the one aspect we're 239 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 5: going to always win. 240 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, we put a lot of R and D into 241 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: the friction between the golf ball and the club face. 242 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: That's a mysterious thing. 243 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 5: When when I was back at the plan and I 244 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 5: saw the I don't know how many times you blew 245 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 5: up the face. But what's the answer to that. 246 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, when we magnifies and look at these basically Shane 247 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 2: what Stan is talking about. We blast the face, We 248 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: mill it, we blast the face. 249 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: And when you say blast the face. 250 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 2: Like like like a media uh that's engineered to maximize 251 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 2: the stick between the cover of the ball and the face. 252 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 4: Okay, and we scan it with this special scanner. 253 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: We blow it up and we three D printed and 254 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: it looks like the sharper than the Himalayas. 255 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 4: Really, that's what's grabbing. 256 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 5: It's unbelievable. If you're not playing a ping wed, you're 257 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 5: cheating yourself out of control. 258 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, super sharp, and that's what's grabbing the ball. 259 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 2: That's what's grabbing the ball. Now we've done some videos 260 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 2: with Stan he's talking about the conditions not being perfect 261 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 2: where he's chipping out at the proving grounds on a nice, beautiful, 262 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 2: dry summer day. It looks it looks dry. We zoom 263 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 2: the camera in and what's getting squeezed? Uh, when when 264 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 2: you're landing the club on the ground before it hits 265 00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: the ball. 266 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's it's amazing. 267 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, water getting squeezed out of the ground. 268 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 3: So that's something you told me when we first started 269 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 3: doing this podcast, was there's in theory, there isn't ideal 270 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 3: conditions because even ideal conditions, some debris or something's gonna 271 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 3: be between the face and the ball. It's one of 272 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 3: the reasons it's so important to be playing a wedge 273 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 3: that you can be as confident as stands talking about. 274 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: It unless you're unless you're hitting off a tee or 275 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: maybe some very nice Zoysia, you know, but. 276 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 5: I've played a couple of courses. I thought we should 277 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 5: have played Matt Golf, but they don't let you do that. 278 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 4: Exactly off of Matt. 279 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 5: Maybe you could get it to spend Stan. 280 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: What do you think? What do you think is the 281 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: role of bounce? I mean, I've heard you describe it 282 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 2: as the skid play some kick off the back. What 283 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: do you how do you think about the timing of 284 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: that turf interaction? 285 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 5: And I really think about it as I go back 286 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 5: and I talk about Gene Sarazen. Did he mean for 287 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 5: the club de land steeper, shallow relative to the front 288 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 5: end to the club or the trail edge of the club. 289 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 5: And when a plane lands, I want that plane coming 290 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 5: in kind of shallow, landing on the back tires. And 291 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 5: if it does that, it might bounce a couple times, 292 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 5: but it stays close to the ground. And I think 293 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:27,239 Speaker 5: people misinterpret steep and shallow like today it's a big buzzword. 294 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 5: Do we need to be steeper? Oh, the body needs 295 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 5: to be steep, but the club. I don't want my 296 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 5: club coming in with the shaft so much forward that 297 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 5: I land the fleet edge very often because the front 298 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 5: edge has almost no forgiveness. 299 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, but if. 300 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 5: I can get the clubhead, the club head releases shallower 301 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 5: at the bottom. I steep an impact at the bottom 302 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 5: with my pivot, my body, my upper torso. But if 303 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 5: I can land the trail edge and keep the lead 304 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 5: edge up it just a little bit one or two 305 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 5: or three degrees, then I get a glide effect and 306 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 5: I have a lot more room for air through impact. 307 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, I can. 308 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 5: Hit perfect, or I can hit a little fat and 309 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 5: still have the ball react very similar. Yeah, And I'm 310 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 5: looking for grace. I don't want to have to be perfect. 311 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well put, yeah, well put. 312 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 5: And depending on the guy's swing, like the guy that's 313 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 5: really steep, he might need a little more of that 314 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 5: grace closer to the lead edge. Like for me, I 315 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 5: don't know if this is right to say, but like 316 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 5: the w wedge doesn't fit my land, yeah, because it's 317 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 5: rounded and I'm used to the bottom being flat and 318 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 5: getting the kick out of the back edge. 319 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 320 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 5: So everybody's got a little different feel in the bottom. 321 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 5: But I'm excited about the new S one F nine 322 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 5: because we have five different options. They can find it now. 323 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, five and the E so six total total. 324 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's amazing. 325 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, Stan, you mentioned that a lot of the people 326 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 3: that come to you are broken when they come to 327 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 3: you in terms of their golf game. You famously worked 328 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: with Charles Barkley, who I would say probably fits the 329 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 3: mold of a broken golfer when he came to you. 330 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 3: How was that experience and how did that come together? 331 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 5: Why? I once have to say God is good because 332 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 5: what's the chance of a short game coach kind of 333 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 5: helping the worst swing and go. 334 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: That's a great point, right Like. 335 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 5: And it was funny when I ran into him at 336 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 5: Tom Layman's charity event in Phoenix. We had crossed paths 337 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 5: a couple times, but I didn't really know Charles, and 338 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 5: I said, look, I'd really like to have you hit 339 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 5: some balls. I want to watch it. He's like, man, 340 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 5: I've worked with everybody. I'm like, I hadn't watched it. 341 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 5: So he rambled out to Greyhawk. A few days later, 342 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 5: my son Jake and I watched him hit some balls, 343 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 5: and I kind of already knew what I was going 344 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 5: to tell him, but I asked him the questions about 345 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 5: what he was thinking, how he got to where he 346 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 5: got to. He was so confused. 347 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: He didn't know too much information. 348 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 5: He didn't know, he didn't know how he became broken, 349 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 5: because at one time he was pretty good. Yeah, and 350 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 5: I think he didn't like getting beat, so he tried 351 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 5: to get better and he misinterpreted information or he got 352 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 5: bad information, one or the other. But honestly, I gave 353 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 5: him one tip. It took about forty minutes for him 354 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 5: to spit the tip back at me. But he said, 355 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 5: everybody knows he pulled down on the handle. And you 356 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 5: probably know, Michael Jacobs. Yep, he said something to me 357 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 5: a couple of years ago that kind of related to this. 358 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 5: He said, golf clubs have balance points, and the physics 359 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 5: makes the club kind of teeter taughter around the balance points. 360 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 5: So if I influenced the grip, it has an influence 361 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 5: on the head. Well, if you think about it, Charles 362 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 5: pulled the grip down so hard that the head kept 363 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 5: going up on the downswing. That's why he got stuck. Interesting, 364 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 5: so there's a point where the head needs to go 365 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 5: down and the grip needs to go up, and I 366 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 5: helped him feel the head go down instead of just 367 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 5: the grip go down. And I did that by having 368 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 5: him use his wrist and basically throw the clubhead backwards. 369 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 5: Some people get worried about when I tell them to 370 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 5: use their wrist to throw the clubhead backwards. But the 371 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 5: way I get them to do that, it actually puts 372 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 5: pressure on the shaft. It creates proper lag on the club, 373 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 5: but it gets the club head moving away away in 374 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 5: the See in the end of the backswing, the clubheads 375 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 5: going toward the target. If you want the clubhead to circle, 376 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 5: it's got to go away from the target on the 377 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 5: downswing first. 378 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's counterintuitive though, right, So it's. 379 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 3: Going away from the down it's going away from the 380 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 3: target on the downswing. 381 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 5: It's the start of the downswing. All of us go 382 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 5: forward with our hands too early. Often it's just human nature. 383 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 5: Our mind's over there. We ain't supposed to go over 384 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 5: there first in the downs. So he turned around and 385 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 5: looked at me, and he said, you want me to 386 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 5: use my wrist to throw the clubhead back toward the trees. 387 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 5: We're on the back of the range at Greyhawk. He's 388 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 5: gotten better every day since then. One tip I've always 389 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 5: I've only I've only seen him maybe five times in 390 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 5: five years. We do not hang out, but he does 391 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 5: practice hard, and that was the one message he needed 392 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 5: and then he really went and dug it out of 393 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 5: the dirt. 394 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 3: So we go from Charles Barkley, who was a relative 395 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 3: broken golfer. You're somebody that studied golf for a long 396 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 3: long time. I know you mentioned Jean Says and earlier. 397 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 3: Who is on your mount rushmore of great short games? 398 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 3: If you had to put together a list of those 399 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 3: four names, I know I'm put you on the. 400 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 5: Spot here, that is, but I would think of savvy Okay. 401 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, uh. 402 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 5: I think one of the prettiest short game players of 403 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 5: late maybe going back a few years, would be Ricky Fowler. 404 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 5: I think of Let me think who Jeff Ogilvie. 405 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. 406 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 5: If you talk about pitching the golf ball, the pitch 407 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 5: he had to win the Open was amazing. Like I 408 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 5: think of it in terms of someone who free swings 409 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 5: ahead and doesn't accelerate the grip very much, Corey Paven 410 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 5: would be amazing. Corey Paven came for a putting lesson 411 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 5: one time, and so I'm asking him questions and I 412 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 5: figure out, Corey Paven, it doesn't matter how he grips 413 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 5: it or how he stands he's a full on wrist putter. 414 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 5: He had added shoulders, so I don't really teach people 415 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 5: to be all risty, but like Corey Paven just he 416 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 5: just tapped it. I said, they should have banned his 417 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 5: stroke because they banned anchoring. He anchors the top of 418 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 5: the grip at the top of his hands. He doesn't 419 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 5: have to put it on his belly. He just uses 420 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 5: his wrist and it's beautiful. 421 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 2: Stan, it's been awesome having you is engineering research brand ambassador. 422 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 2: Tell the listeners a little bit about about your role 423 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 2: some of the fun things we've worked on in terms 424 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: of research. I mean, one of one of the things 425 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 2: for me has been that you've come in and you 426 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 2: asked us such good questions. 427 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 4: Shane, We've talked about this. 428 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 5: They usually don't like my questions. 429 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 4: Well, no, I asked you. 430 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: The best questions are the ones where you you you 431 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 2: you guys stump us right. I mean we're frustrated, but 432 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: then we're like, ask God, that's a great question. 433 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 5: But the truth is all of us that teach golf, 434 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 5: we're looking for the right answer. 435 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 436 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 5: Yeah, and a guy like me who was really a player, 437 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 5: I feel like I use my intuition about what I 438 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 5: thought happened and what I thought I was doing. For 439 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 5: a long time, I would say my gift as a 440 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 5: golf coach really is my eyes sees the sequence of 441 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 5: the movement. That's a gift. But I've tried to learn 442 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 5: the engineering and the wise. So because of your team, 443 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 5: you guys are always measuring. Like one of my favorite 444 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 5: questions I asked was, if I swung the driver clubhead 445 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 5: one hundred miles an hour to impact, how fast is 446 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 5: the top of the grip going. Because I see my 447 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 5: student the sequence of his swing. The top of the 448 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 5: grip's going so fast. There's no way he can get 449 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 5: the clubhead to speed up past the grip handle fast. Now, 450 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 5: the long drive guys are studying deceleration. Yeah, if you 451 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 5: can't put the brakes on something above the clubhead, you 452 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 5: can't get the clubhead to go fast. 453 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 4: Yeah. 454 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, we know that the handspeed max is out about 455 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: when the arms parallel to the. 456 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 5: Ground, it starts slowing down stars. The average person doesn't 457 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 5: know that, and everybody that sucks at chipping is not 458 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 5: slowing the grip down soon enough, the grip's going fast, 459 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 5: you know. I like to ask questions about path and 460 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 5: face like you guys put me on a really fast camera. 461 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 5: I wanted to know which direction was the club going in, 462 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 5: which direction was my face pointed on a low shot, 463 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 5: And I believe what the data said was my face 464 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 5: was nine degrees close to my path, So that's nine 465 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 5: degrees aloft. I took off of the club before I 466 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 5: leaned the shaft. 467 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 4: Forward to square it right. 468 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 5: And that's what allows me to be still shallow at 469 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 5: the bottom and hit a load chip and run. I 470 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 5: don't have to have the shaft twenty degrees forward to 471 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 5: make it come out low and run. 472 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I didn't know. 473 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 5: I just I knew I did it, but I didn't 474 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 5: really know the math. 475 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: You knew you could do it. You'm not exactly sure 476 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: why it was happening. Yeah, yeah, I was. I was 477 00:24:59,359 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: gonna ask you. 478 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 3: We talked a little bit about the average player. People 479 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 3: come in that are broken, and I know it's player 480 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 3: to players circumstantial, but you know, we talk about the 481 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 3: chipper a lot on this podcast because it's been such 482 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 3: a great addition to the golf back for so many players. 483 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,479 Speaker 3: What's a mistake players do even before they make a 484 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 3: move on a chip shot or a pitch shot around 485 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 3: the green. Maybe the club they pull out, or the 486 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 3: decisions they're making in terms of the shot they're attempting 487 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 3: to pull off that might not be the right shot. 488 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 5: Well, the first thing is it really helps to be 489 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 5: able to make solid contact. So that's really what I 490 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 5: try to teach. 491 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 3: Now, can you teach solid contact? Is that something you 492 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: can teach? 493 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 5: That's a skill? Okay, gaw never forget golf is a 494 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 5: skill sport. Yeah, people way over emphasize the mental aspects 495 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 5: of it. Barnard took a lot of grief recently because 496 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 5: he said golf wasn't that mental. His point was, you 497 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,719 Speaker 5: will never beat him if you're just because you're stronger 498 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 5: than him. 499 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: Right. 500 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 4: I could not agree more with that. 501 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 5: Stam Now, it doesn't mean it's not a mental contest 502 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 5: if you have all the skills, but you can't beat 503 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 5: the guy with the skill with your mind. 504 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: Don't matter how strong your mind is. 505 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 3: There's some brilliant people in the world that are terrible 506 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 3: golfers terrible. 507 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 5: Now back to the question. The next piece of it, 508 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 5: besides hitting it solid, is you need to assess the situation. 509 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 5: So part of the situation is your skill set. So 510 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 5: the person that doesn't have the skill set to pitch 511 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 5: it with a lob wedge like I do. But they 512 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 5: could take the chipper and pitch it and run it 513 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 5: most of the way. They're gonna shoot lower with the chipper. 514 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 5: I still want to teach them the skill to pitch it. Yeah, 515 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 5: But just because you give them the chipper doesn't mean 516 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 5: they have that skill either, because I would give them 517 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 5: the better technique to chip with the chipper by swinging 518 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 5: the head of it versus pulling the grip half. The 519 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 5: people can't use the chipper if they got one. If 520 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 5: they're making the grip in go faster than the clubhead 521 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 5: in an impact I love people say I decelerate on it. 522 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 5: The only way to decelerate the head is to over 523 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 5: accelerate the grip and impact. 524 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: The club. 525 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 3: Doesn'self golfer say that wrong? 526 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: Is what you're saying? 527 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 5: Well, I'm not sure that clubhead isn't decelerating, but it's 528 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 5: not decelerating for the reason they think it is interesting, 529 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,479 Speaker 5: it's a it's a different reason. 530 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 2: Is that a similarity standing in your in your coaching, 531 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 2: in in pitching and also putting? Where do those two 532 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 2: differentiate a little bit? In terms of maybe how. 533 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,479 Speaker 5: You it's less than you think in my world, and 534 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 5: I realize there's lots of ways to accomplish a good putter, 535 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 5: a good chip. People putt good differently. But I like 536 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 5: to say, if I was just looking at how to 537 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 5: make it look most mathematically correct, I want to swing 538 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 5: the club on plane. If you swing on a seventy 539 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,239 Speaker 5: degree plane or a little steeper, the bottom is going 540 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 5: to arc. I want the face to go square to 541 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 5: the arc, and I want things to move in the 542 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 5: right sequence. Sequence means from the bottom up, things move 543 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 5: less if you truly swung a pendulum. I love to 544 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 5: ask this question, what is the rate of acceleration at 545 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 5: the bottom of a pendulum? Don't mess this up? 546 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 4: Zero? 547 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: What would you say, Well, I mean I would just follows. 548 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 5: Most people would say maximum. 549 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 4: What do you mean? The engineering scholer was zero acceleration. 550 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 5: So but but see my student heard accelerate through the ball. 551 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 4: Yes. 552 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,239 Speaker 5: And then the next question I asked him is, so, 553 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 5: let's let's say this putney at four miles an hour 554 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 5: club at speed. If you really needed to hit the 555 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 5: ball at four miles an hour, would you rather be 556 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 5: coasting or changing from one to six at a moment. 557 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 4: Of impact, yeah, with no margin of error. 558 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 5: So what happens is I think the person that comes 559 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 5: up short and says that hescelerated, they just hit the 560 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 5: ball about an eighth of a inch too soon and 561 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 5: they were only going two instead of four. Yeah, because 562 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 5: the same stroke, if you hit the ball in eighth 563 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 5: of and inch too late, goes way back because you're 564 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 5: running six. 565 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 4: Now, your ball position has to be perfect. 566 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 5: But the great putters, you know, the factions, the ben Crenshaws, 567 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 5: they speed up early in the coast, so their touch 568 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 5: at impact is incredible. And when you're coasting. It's funny 569 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 5: when I'm giving clinics and getting people to do this, 570 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 5: they all say it feels so solid. Well, it's easier 571 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 5: to hit it solid if you're not surging. 572 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 4: M yeah. Yeah. 573 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 5: And this is a question I gave you guys one time. 574 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 5: I said, does the ball leave the face faster if 575 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 5: it's coasting or speeding up? You guys didn't want to 576 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 5: answer that question. But when I can get them to 577 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 5: say the answer, it actually leaves the face quicker on 578 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 5: a coast than it does on a surge, because a surge, 579 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 5: you're sticking the ball in the face. 580 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: Interesting. 581 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 5: It might be a little bit, but a little bit matters. 582 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I know a little bit matters of golf, Sam, 583 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 4: no doubt about it. 584 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: All right. 585 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 3: So as we're wrap it up, one thing I've taken 586 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 3: from this interview is we're gonna have to get one 587 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 3: of your wedges in the vault. 588 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: That's number one. And b is I don't. 589 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 5: Field leaning for that for a while, so good luck. 590 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 3: We talked to some people already knows some people at 591 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 3: ping I've heard. And the second is I feel like 592 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 3: I don't know as much about the short game as 593 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 3: maybe I thought I did to start me neither. 594 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: But I mean you seem like you still love it. 595 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: I mean you still up teaching. 596 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 3: Yesterday I saw you do two hundred plus lessons. 597 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 5: I went to do clinics hardy this morning. I learned 598 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 5: stuff from David Orr about putting this wall go. 599 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you you can never you can never want 600 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: to never learning. 601 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 5: You can never quit learning. That's what's so great about golf. 602 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 3: Seeing I know recently you've come out and you've been 603 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 3: vocal about, you know, battling Parkinson's. How has that been, 604 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 3: When do you find out and what have you been 605 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 3: doing as of late to you know, try to hold 606 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 3: it back as long as possible. 607 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 5: Well, it wasn't something I talked about in the moment, 608 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 5: but in the early twenty nineteen I was diagnosed with 609 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 5: non Hopkins lymphoma after going through four rounds of a 610 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 5: big chemo one. I'm happy to say I sit here 611 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 5: today cancer free. 612 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, beautiful. 613 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 5: But the neurologist said the trauma from the chemo kicked 614 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 5: in Parkinson's earlier than it might. It might have surfaced 615 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 5: later in life, but it kind of kicked it in. 616 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,479 Speaker 5: And so it's just now to the point where I 617 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 5: take meds that managed the shake. But as we sit 618 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 5: here and did this interview, in my left hand shaken. 619 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 5: Sometimes I I feel a little conscious about it. I'm 620 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 5: not worried about it, but I don't mind people realizing 621 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 5: why shake now? Because it is a public thing and 622 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 5: I'm in the public eye. It doesn't really hurt my 623 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 5: day to day life. I still made four birdies on Friday. 624 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 4: There we go. 625 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 5: The cool thing is it only shakes when I'm still. 626 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 5: It doesn't shake when I'm swinging or hitting the putt. 627 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: So golf is good. 628 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 5: It's not hurting. 629 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: Golf still can pitch it like he used to. 630 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 5: Well, no, I can't do that, but it's it's not terrible. 631 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 4: Stan. 632 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 2: We were chipping at the proving grounds. I never told you, 633 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 2: just you help me. You give me a few tips. 634 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 2: I was super steep. You help me get a shallower, 635 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 2: changed my body movements. I played that weekend. It was 636 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 2: cold in Phoenix, and I missed six screens. I got 637 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 2: every ball. 638 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 4: Up and down. 639 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 2: It was just so big cont so that reminds me 640 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 2: of hosting it in there. 641 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 5: I learned two things the first day, I say with 642 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,719 Speaker 5: a sports psychologist. He was a track coach of Missouri, 643 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 5: my friend Rick Maguire. He said, there's there's one main 644 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 5: difference between winning and losing, scheduling. 645 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 4: Scheduling. 646 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 5: And he said, there's one way to be a great 647 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 5: track coach coach fast kids. I was coaching a fast kid. 648 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: You had the quickest. 649 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 5: He was already the quickest guy in the room. It 650 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 5: was easy. 651 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 3: He might have got five out of six up and 652 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 3: down if he hadn't had the conversion for you the 653 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 3: next day. 654 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: But he's six out of six. 655 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: Ja. 656 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 5: I still like. I'm still like hearing the stories. 657 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 4: It felt good. 658 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, well stand we appreciate the time. 659 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 3: Always interesting to hear you kind of talk about short 660 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 3: game and diving into it and obviously from great player 661 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 3: to great coach, one of the great that's ever done it. 662 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,479 Speaker 1: So thanks for taking the time with us. 663 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 5: It's a pleasure. 664 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. That's stand out. This is the 665 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: Proving Grounds Podcast.