WEBVTT - The Indirect Impact

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<v Speaker 1>This was a rigged, disgraceful trial. The real verdict is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be No Fifth by the people, and they

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<v Speaker 1>know what happened here, and everybody knows what happened here.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think it's just a disgrace. And we'll keep fighting.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll fight till the end and we'll win because our

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<v Speaker 1>country's gone to hell.

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<v Speaker 2>And we will fight for our constitution. This is Lord

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<v Speaker 2>from overt.

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<v Speaker 1>This was a rigged, disgraceful trial. The real verdict is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be November fifth by the people, and they

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<v Speaker 1>know what happened here, and everybody knows what happened here. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he's right about that. The real verdict is on election day.

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<v Speaker 1>And we've talked to a judge, we've talked to a lawyer.

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<v Speaker 1>We haven't talked to somebody whose speciality is politics. So

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<v Speaker 1>that's what we need to get into.

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<v Speaker 2>Who better than David Drucker, senior writer for the Dispatch.

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<v Speaker 2>You know him from his years as a senior correspondent

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<v Speaker 2>for the Washington Examiner as well. David, welcome, how.

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<v Speaker 3>Are you well? Good? Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>So we've been talking about this for hours and just anecdotally,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems to us text emails going through Twitter, that

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<v Speaker 1>sort of thing. I see a lot more energized people

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<v Speaker 1>who are on the fence about Trump, who want to

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<v Speaker 1>vote for Trump, than moving any votes for Biden. How

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<v Speaker 1>do you read the political fallout of what happened yesterday?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think it's far too early to read the

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<v Speaker 3>political fallout. I mean, clearly, you know, anger is always

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<v Speaker 3>more energizing in politics, especially when you're the out party

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<v Speaker 3>trying to win something back. But I wouldn't I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 3>make any snap decisions about how this is going to

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<v Speaker 3>impact things. First of all, I don't want to see

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<v Speaker 3>immediate polling. I want to see polling that's in the

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<v Speaker 3>field after the first ten days after the verdict. That's

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<v Speaker 3>number one, Because pulling in the next few days or

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<v Speaker 3>even the next week, I don't think it gives you

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<v Speaker 3>necessarily an accurate read on where people are. Second of all,

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<v Speaker 3>we you know, we've seen over the past ten years

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<v Speaker 3>in politics, particularly the Trump era, where you know, it's

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<v Speaker 3>like today, there's a crisis. Today, there's the biggest thing

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<v Speaker 3>to ever happen in American politics, and that's going to

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<v Speaker 3>change everything forever. And then it doesn't, and things just

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<v Speaker 3>kind of revert to whatever the normal is. We saw

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<v Speaker 3>that with the Access Hollywood tape in the twenty sixteen

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<v Speaker 3>campaign where Trump Trump's numbers take a dive and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>ten days to two weeks later, he's back to parody.

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<v Speaker 3>He ends up winning the election. There are going to

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<v Speaker 3>be a lot of intervening events. There are going to

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<v Speaker 3>be a lot of different ways Americans can process this,

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<v Speaker 3>voters can process this, And so I think that that

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<v Speaker 3>partisans may have their predictions and may feel strongly about them,

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<v Speaker 3>and somebody's going to turn out to be right potentially,

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<v Speaker 3>but we don't actually know with any educated certainty or

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<v Speaker 3>even educated sort of guessing, how this thing is going

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<v Speaker 3>to play.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I coined a term earlier in the show, David,

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<v Speaker 2>and you, of your vast experience and savvy you can

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<v Speaker 2>be the judge of whether it's a legit invention. I said,

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<v Speaker 2>will this be an event of enduring significance or is

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<v Speaker 2>it a vacation tennis racket. It seemed like a great

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<v Speaker 2>idea to buy a tennis racket because you played a

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<v Speaker 2>little on vacation, but then you put it back in

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<v Speaker 2>the closet and you forget about it. It's no big deal, really,

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<v Speaker 2>is there an analogous term in political analysis.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, I might just steal that and say

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<v Speaker 3>I can't. I kind of liked it. You know, one

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<v Speaker 3>of my colleagues that we were discussing this at a

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<v Speaker 3>Dispatch editorial meeting and we have every Friday, and one

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<v Speaker 3>of my colleagues suggested that this can have all sorts

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<v Speaker 3>of indirect impacts on the campaign. You know. One indirect impact,

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<v Speaker 3>for instance, could be that Donald Trump becomes so consumed

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<v Speaker 3>by being you know, mistreated in this way if he

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<v Speaker 3>sees it that it's all he talks about, right, and

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<v Speaker 3>he forgets to talk about inflation and gas prices and

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<v Speaker 3>in crime and in foreign policy and all the things

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<v Speaker 3>he has going for in the border. And so that's

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<v Speaker 3>that's one impact. The other, you know, on a you know,

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<v Speaker 3>indirect impact could be that the Biden campaign decides they

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<v Speaker 3>need to talk about this at nauseum. I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>that would necessarily be a good look, especially since you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the Republicans are painting this as a sort of party

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<v Speaker 3>wide engineered dragnet to get Trump, and you know, the

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<v Speaker 3>parties these days are so weak that you know, if

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<v Speaker 3>if Joe Biden could control Alvin Bragg. I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>that Alvin Bragg would have ever brought this case. So

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<v Speaker 3>who knows how this is going to play out? I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>I think we do know. In the immediate it's certainly

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<v Speaker 3>helping Donald Trump's fundraising. It's certainly giving voters who say

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<v Speaker 3>they've been on the fence or unenthusiastic about supporting Trump

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<v Speaker 3>a reason to do so. And they're telling us this

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<v Speaker 3>is now why they're doing so. I still wonder if

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<v Speaker 3>these are the same voters that would have found a

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<v Speaker 3>way to come home to the Republican Party by November

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<v Speaker 3>one way or the other. But look, in politics, you

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<v Speaker 3>prefer not to have any guineas, right, So if you're

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<v Speaker 3>the Biden campaign, why have any reason for Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 3>to raise thirty five million dollars overnight or any reason

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<v Speaker 3>for voters claiming to be skeptical of him to decide

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<v Speaker 3>they're no longer skeptical of him by the same token.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, this could impact swing voters or independence in

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<v Speaker 3>a negative way. It could remind suburban women of all

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<v Speaker 3>the reasons why they didn't, you know, like Donald Trump,

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<v Speaker 3>or were glad to be rid of him four years ago,

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<v Speaker 3>even though you know, they've been unhappy with let's say,

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<v Speaker 3>President Biden's leadership on the economy and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>So do you steal cars while you're talking to us?

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<v Speaker 1>Is that what's going on there?

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<v Speaker 3>Listen? I live in Washington, DC, and I pulled over

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<v Speaker 3>just to talk to you, which means you're gonna get

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<v Speaker 3>all sorts of around here.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, he's risking a carjacking. We appreciate it. Hey, So,

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<v Speaker 1>speaking of things being a good look or not, what

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<v Speaker 1>did you think of ancient rambling Robert de Niro in

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<v Speaker 1>from of the courthouse the other day? Was that a

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<v Speaker 1>good move by the Biden people?

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<v Speaker 3>You know? So look, the easy answer is, know, why

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<v Speaker 3>would they do that? Joe Biden supposed to be the

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<v Speaker 3>candidate of norms and value, you know, norms and and

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<v Speaker 3>and in doing things the normal way and all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, I sometimes I think we overthink this.

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<v Speaker 3>And I like to remind people that the Democratic Party

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<v Speaker 3>also has a base and they also like candidates who

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<v Speaker 3>are fighters. And they think Donald Trump has been getting

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<v Speaker 3>away with, you know, everything for years, and when is

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<v Speaker 3>somebody going to stand up to him and finally put

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<v Speaker 3>him in his place? So it's paulib it's sending the

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<v Speaker 3>nero there to to yip yapp made a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>Democrats feel like, yeah, good, somebody's sticking it to Trump.

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<v Speaker 3>How come it's only Republicans to get to go before

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<v Speaker 3>the cameras and hogg the spotlight and look again, it's

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<v Speaker 3>one of those things. Are people really going to go

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<v Speaker 3>into the voting booth or voter early and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>beginning in September October and said, well, you know, I

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<v Speaker 3>was going to vote for Biden. He was a normal guy.

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<v Speaker 3>But man, that Robert de Niro, that just that just

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<v Speaker 3>rounded for me. I just I just don't think it matters.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, good to see one of Joe Biden's contemporaries getting

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<v Speaker 2>some attention anyway, Speaking of which David, various wags and

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<v Speaker 2>sources and and thinkers have said the whispers have become

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<v Speaker 2>murmurs or even louder than that about President Biden's mental

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<v Speaker 2>acuity at this point, and is decline, what are you hearing?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't hear that from Democrats. What I hear from

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<v Speaker 3>Democrats is that he obviously presents physically impaired. Right. He

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<v Speaker 3>presents like an old man, the way he walks, the

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<v Speaker 3>way he shuffles around sometimes the way he turns this

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<v Speaker 3>way or that way, and that's why voters think that

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<v Speaker 3>he is too old for this job. And it's a problem.

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<v Speaker 3>I have not talked to any Democrats who have told me,

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<v Speaker 3>oh my god, the guy's lost it. And in fact,

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<v Speaker 3>if you look at how the White House is functioning,

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<v Speaker 3>it occurred. It would not occur to me that he's

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<v Speaker 3>lost it, because this is functioning exactly the way you

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<v Speaker 3>would expect that Joe Biden white House, you know, foreign,

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<v Speaker 3>domestic policy, in politics to function. Joe Biden's always trying

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<v Speaker 3>to please everybody. It's always trying to find the center

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<v Speaker 3>of the Democratic Party, not the center of American politics,

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<v Speaker 3>the center of the Democratic Party. He's always been a

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<v Speaker 3>left of center liberal Democrat, and the further than the

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<v Speaker 3>left the Democratic Party has moved in recent years. For

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<v Speaker 3>a guy that wants to be in the center of

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<v Speaker 3>that would also have moved left. I don't think that's

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<v Speaker 3>an issue.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I just I couldn't. I couldn't disagree more strongly.

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<v Speaker 2>We play a lot of audio on this show. You

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<v Speaker 2>listen to Joe Biden two years ago. He is a

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<v Speaker 2>different human being than Joe Biden twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't think he's that different. I think he's older,

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<v Speaker 3>but I don't think he's incoherent. It sounds much different

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<v Speaker 3>than Joe Biden of twenty or forty years ago in

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<v Speaker 3>terms of the substance coming out of his mouth. He

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<v Speaker 3>talks a little bit more like he's an old man.

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<v Speaker 3>But you're asking me like, is he mentally diminished? Has

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<v Speaker 3>he lost his marble?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 3>I think if you look at the breath of his career,

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<v Speaker 3>this is the Joe Biden that I would have In fact,

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<v Speaker 3>I would have expected Joe Biden to be further to

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<v Speaker 3>the left on certain issues than he is. And I

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<v Speaker 3>just he presents like somebody who is a lot older

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<v Speaker 3>than he used to be but still functioning. So, by

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<v Speaker 3>the way, I'm not saying this to say there's no problem,

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<v Speaker 3>this is a huge problem for him. I think it

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<v Speaker 3>gets in the way the way he presents and what

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<v Speaker 3>people think of their ability to believe he can do anything,

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<v Speaker 3>even things they disagree with. And I think that impacts

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<v Speaker 3>the polling. In other words, when Joe Biden says, look

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<v Speaker 3>at my economic plan compared to Trump's, I think a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of voters say, what's the point of looking at

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<v Speaker 3>your economic plan. You can't do anything. You're too old.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's a huge problem for him because if he's

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<v Speaker 3>going to convince people that are persuadable, hey, listen, you

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<v Speaker 3>might like to be better than Trump when you really

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<v Speaker 3>take a look at things. If their whole thing is

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<v Speaker 3>we just don't think you're up to this one way

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<v Speaker 3>or the other, that means he can't even have a

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<v Speaker 3>debate on issues, or a debate on Trump's ethical foibles

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<v Speaker 3>or things like that. It's like he's got to just

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<v Speaker 3>convince people that he can get up in the morning.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's a problem. But when you ask me, like,

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<v Speaker 3>what are the whispers about his mental acuity, I can

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<v Speaker 3>tell you what Democrats tell me is they recognize how

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<v Speaker 3>it looks, but they tell me that they don't see

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<v Speaker 3>anything in his decision making or ability to process information.

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<v Speaker 3>His ability to communicate is a whole different story. But

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<v Speaker 3>processing and deciding, they say, is still there.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we've got to uh, we got to let you go.

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<v Speaker 1>We're big fans of the Dispatch, man. I take in

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<v Speaker 1>all the podcasts and read it every morning and all

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<v Speaker 1>that sort of stuff. So glad you're there.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey. I remember I don't know if it was the

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<v Speaker 1>day after Trump announced nine years ago, it was certainly,

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<v Speaker 1>And like in the first couple of days we had

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<v Speaker 1>you on and I remember you coming on and the

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<v Speaker 1>first thing you said, we introduced you and you said,

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<v Speaker 1>trump trump trumpety trump trump trumpety trump trump trump. It's

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<v Speaker 1>the only word I've heard in the last couple of days.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's been that way for nine years now. It's amazing.

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<v Speaker 3>Listen. I'm in my early fifties and I'm just hoping

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<v Speaker 3>that before I'm dead, which I hope is not for

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<v Speaker 3>a long time, just to make things interesting, we get

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<v Speaker 3>to a day when that doesn't happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, me soon would that it were.

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<v Speaker 2>David Drucker, senior writer for The Dispatch, Absolutely worth a

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<v Speaker 2>reading to click David. Always a pleasure.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks he got guys, take care yep.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's uh. He's just nuts to think that Joe

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<v Speaker 1>Biden isn't significantly different than he was a few years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>I involve our institutions, Yeah, I don't. I don't doubt

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<v Speaker 2>anything he said about his processing ability at times, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>and his decision making and where he stands on issues

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<v Speaker 2>and stuff like that. But uh, what I call that?

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<v Speaker 1>Drucker said, Democrats tell him they don't see a difference.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't doubt that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what do his best friends say off the record?

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<v Speaker 2>But you know that's fine.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well I don't

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<v Speaker 2>The evidence of your eyes slash ears, amigos, amigas,