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Speaker 1: We come in. I am Doug Gottlieb. Yeah, it says

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Speaker 1: behind me, it says it on the little tyron, and

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Speaker 1: I'm coming to you from Green Bay, Wisconsin, from the

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Speaker 1: head coach of the Fight in Phoenix of Wisconsin, Green Bay.

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Speaker 1: We are in your homes and if you want to

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Speaker 1: watch this, you can go to WFRV Plus and as

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Speaker 1: we continue to get picked up by other stations in

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Speaker 1: the next Star Digital Network. Also, obviously you can see

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Speaker 1: us on WFRV TV as well as we are live

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Speaker 1: here on a Sunday night of selection Sunday. And of

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Speaker 1: course you can download this in podcast form wherever you

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Speaker 1: download podcast on the iHeart podcast network, So we're available

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Speaker 1: in your ear or on your screen or on your

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Speaker 1: phone or on your computer. Or you can say that

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Speaker 1: guys an idiot. I've never liked him, and I don't

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Speaker 1: want to watch, and you're well within your means to

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Speaker 1: do so. This time of year, everybody I know on

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Speaker 1: Earth breaks out their bracket and says, I need a tip,

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Speaker 1: I need a team, or they have some sort of formula.

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Speaker 1: I could do a show like that, but in all honesty,

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Speaker 1: and we'll do other shows throughout the week as we

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Speaker 1: get ready for the games, which actually begin on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: and Wednesday. That's the first four. It's technically not necessarily

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Speaker 1: in your bracket and your Bracket challenge, but it is

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Speaker 1: part of the tournament, even if it's the play in,

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Speaker 1: but the bracket itself begins Thursday. And as a kid

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Speaker 1: growing up in southern California, my dad used to get

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Speaker 1: me out of schools the coolest thing ever and take

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Speaker 1: me to one or two of the sports bars that

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Speaker 1: had the old big satellites that you had to move

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Speaker 1: and you could watch the games, and it was awesome,

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Speaker 1: And the only person that we all hated was whoever

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Speaker 1: at CBS was the guy who decided to switch the

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Speaker 1: games back and forth. If you only had one TV

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Speaker 1: and you were watching a game and was coming to

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Speaker 1: its culmination, and all of a sudden it flipped over

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Speaker 1: to the Duke game, or to the Michigan game, or

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Speaker 1: the Kentucky game which rated better, or whatever game in

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Speaker 1: your area. If you're in California, the UCLA game that

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Speaker 1: would be played. I have done almost all of what

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Speaker 1: you can do in this space. I was a fan.

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Speaker 1: I went to Final fours as a kid. My dad

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Speaker 1: was a coach, I was a little bit too young

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Speaker 1: to remember him. As a college coach. Then I played

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Speaker 1: in the NCAA Tournament three times at Oklahoma State. We

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Speaker 1: played in the Elite eight, we didn't reach the Final four.

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Speaker 1: That one I can't get back. And then as a broadcaster,

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Speaker 1: I've literally done it all except for calling the Final

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Speaker 1: four games, although I was on the set of the

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Speaker 1: Final Four with CBS and Turner, and most recently I

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Speaker 1: got a chance to be the pre halftime in postgame

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Speaker 1: analyst for Westwood One at Final Four games. And now

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Speaker 1: I'm a college basketball coach. Ill obviously we have not

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Speaker 1: reached the NCAA Tournament yet, but that's the goal and

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Speaker 1: ultimately I know it will happen, and I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: what that's like to go from a player, a broadcaster,

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Speaker 1: and then a coach, all being a part of the

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Speaker 1: NCAA Tournament. It is the best, it's the best, and

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Speaker 1: it's the most democratic because if you win, you keep playing.

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Speaker 1: If you win, you keep playing. The tournament has already begun.

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Speaker 1: It began championship week when ninety percent of the teams

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Speaker 1: because not everybody qualifies for their conference tournament in some

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Speaker 1: of these conferences, I disagree with that that if we're

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Speaker 1: going to have anybody can make it, then anybody can

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Speaker 1: make it. And the only rule is if you keep winning,

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Speaker 1: you keep playing, you win your conference tournament, you get

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Speaker 1: to go to the NCAA tournament, you get the NCAA Tournament,

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Speaker 1: even the first four, and we've seen this happen, you know,

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Speaker 1: from the infants of the first four with VCU big

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Speaker 1: boys have done it. From UCLA in the first four

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Speaker 1: all the way to the final four. You keep winning,

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Speaker 1: you keep playing. But what we've put together, I believe

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Speaker 1: is a really good show. In one of my assistant coaches,

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Speaker 1: kil Ganz, who's been a top level Division two assistant

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Speaker 1: and is one of my assistant coaches I believe will

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Speaker 1: be a head coach very soon, maybe too soon, maybe

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Speaker 1: this year. He's going to join me. We'll talk about

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Speaker 1: his path. We'll also talk with Rob Doster, who is

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Speaker 1: a college basketball analyst for Field of sixty eight. If

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Speaker 1: you're an insider college basketball nerd the way I am,

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Speaker 1: you know Field of sixty eight they cover the sport

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Speaker 1: better than anybody else. But we'll also talk about this year,

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Speaker 1: this tournament and what you need to know leading into it.

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Speaker 1: The most important thing I want you to understand is

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Speaker 1: that forget about whether it's kids and it's fun whatever,

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Speaker 1: I when you're the actual coach there, as fans or

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Speaker 1: even as a broadcaster, you have no idea of all

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Speaker 1: of the things that are going into every decision that

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Speaker 1: is made. One of the foremost coaches in foreign basketball

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Speaker 1: is is David Blat. David Blatt has been a famous

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Speaker 1: international coach, most notably for Maccabi Tel Aviv, and he

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Speaker 1: of course was the head coach for the Cleveland Cavaliers

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Speaker 1: for I think of a year and a half with

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Speaker 1: Lebron James and his one of his quotes that people

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Speaker 1: in the media killed him for was being a head

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Speaker 1: coach in the NBA is like being a fighter pilot,

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Speaker 1: where you're making two hundred decisions at any one moment.

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Speaker 1: And people laughed at it and scoffed at it, and

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Speaker 1: the reality is that's exactly what you're doing. You don't

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Speaker 1: know who's healthy, you don't know who's hurt, you don't

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Speaker 1: know the truly the matchups, or what the coaching staffs

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Speaker 1: are thinking, or what their plan A, their plan B

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Speaker 1: or planing C. And sometimes those plans go awry? What

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Speaker 1: is it the quote the best plans of mice and

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Speaker 1: men often go awry when there's foul trouble or somebody

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Speaker 1: rolls their ankle, or somebody misses their first three shots,

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Speaker 1: or somebody forgets a play or forgets a coverage. And

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Speaker 1: do you hold them accountable in the NCAA tournament when

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Speaker 1: you've held them accountable and take them out of the game,

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Speaker 1: how long do you leave them out? When you leave

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Speaker 1: them out that the team going to run. All of

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Speaker 1: those things kind of play a factor in Is there

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Speaker 1: an official that's officiating game that you may feel like

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Speaker 1: has a personal beef with the head coach and assistant

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Speaker 1: coach or every time we get them he kills us.

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Speaker 1: All these things are a reality of what actually happens

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Speaker 1: or the way in which a game is officiated. Oftentimes,

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Speaker 1: early NCAA tournament games are super tightly officiated. Why is that?

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Speaker 1: It's because the officials are graded okay on calls they

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Speaker 1: get right and calls they miss, And a non call

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Speaker 1: that is wrong is just the same as a call

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Speaker 1: that is the wrong call that they didn't have to call.

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Speaker 1: I call no calls is how it's graded out. But

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Speaker 1: generally they try, and they're trying to be perfect because

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Speaker 1: the better you grade out, the more likely you are

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Speaker 1: to advance as an official. So the first round games

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Speaker 1: are often very tightly officiated, and once you get to

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Speaker 1: the final four, it's a little more loosely officiated because

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Speaker 1: those guys have already made it and they've already advanced.

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Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean that the grading system is wrong.

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Speaker 1: It just means that at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: the best of the best and they have a better

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Speaker 1: feel for how to officiate a game. But despite all

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Speaker 1: of those decisions you have to make within the context

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Speaker 1: at each game, there's a million things going on you

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Speaker 1: don't know about, and what you should appreciate is teams

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Speaker 1: and groups just figuring it out. Teams and groups just finguut.

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Speaker 1: What's that mean. It means that at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, and this is where you can relate to

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Speaker 1: your life, your business, even a night where you're trying

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Speaker 1: to have a good time and you don't have a plan.

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Speaker 1: But really more in the business sense is at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, you can plan out this and

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Speaker 1: that and feel like you have a better product than

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Speaker 1: somebody else or but you just have to figure out

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Speaker 1: a way to win the day. That's it. You have

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Speaker 1: to figure out a way in which you have one

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Speaker 1: more point than your opponent at the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: They can be better than you, they can be worse

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Speaker 1: than you. They can have a guy that's hot, you

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Speaker 1: can have a guy that's playing terrible. Whatever your initial

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Speaker 1: plan may not work, just figure out a way to

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Speaker 1: when the clock strike zero, you have one more point

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Speaker 1: and you get to live another day. That's it, live

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Speaker 1: another day. There's a certain hunger games to it. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: you're not killing one another, and I understand that's a

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Speaker 1: dystopian look at society, but the whole thing is just

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Speaker 1: about survival. Who cares how pretty it is? Who cares

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Speaker 1: if you play away in which you hadn't played all year,

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Speaker 1: you play a lineup you hadn't played all year together.

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Speaker 1: You just find a way to figure it out. And

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Speaker 1: I think I think one of the best examples was

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Speaker 1: Duke in twenty ten. Okay, for people who don't know

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Speaker 1: Duke in the early two thousands. They were a team

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Speaker 1: that played one way. They pressured you and then they

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Speaker 1: spread you out and they put their big guy at

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Speaker 1: the top of the key, and they'd run a ball screen,

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Speaker 1: and they were just better than their opponents, and they

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Speaker 1: tried to wear you down by the volume of possessions,

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Speaker 1: the volume of times that they pressured you. And occasionally

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Speaker 1: they would have players that weren't good enough at playing

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Speaker 1: that way and they wouldn't achieve the previous greatness of Duke.

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Speaker 1: And somewhere about mid season they changed. In twenty ten,

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Speaker 1: John Shires, now the head coach of Duke, was one

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Speaker 1: of their stars. So too was Nolan Smith, who's taken

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Speaker 1: Tennessee State to the NCAA Tournament this year in his

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Speaker 1: first year at the Helm. But they they put into

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Speaker 1: the starting lineup Brian Zubek, who was a tremendous rebounder

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Speaker 1: and just a mountain of a man, and they changed

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Speaker 1: how they played defensively and played much more pack line defense,

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Speaker 1: which if you're in Green Bay, you know that the

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Speaker 1: creator of the pack line defense was Dick Bennett, who also,

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Speaker 1: by the way, didn't play that way when he was

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Speaker 1: the head coach at Steven's Point. When he was at

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Speaker 1: Steven's Point, he pressured, but when he got to Green Bay,

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Speaker 1: he didn't have the personnel to pressure, so he played

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Speaker 1: pack line, which is more physical, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: more containment based. And that's what Duke did that year,

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Speaker 1: and they end up winning the national championship. That's the

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Speaker 1: year they beat Butler, right, and they did so playing

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Speaker 1: a different style and just finding a way to survive

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Speaker 1: in advance, just like the Hunger Games, just like anything

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Speaker 1: in business. Hey, this year, we got to figure out

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Speaker 1: a way to play left handed, even though we're not

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Speaker 1: left handed. And that's what this sport is about. That's

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Speaker 1: what any tournament's about. And that's what I think can

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Speaker 1: be relatable even if you don't know these names. You

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Speaker 1: don't know these people that many of the head coaches,

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Speaker 1: the historic head coaches are gone as the cycle has

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Speaker 1: turned them over, and the style of basketball and the

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Speaker 1: style of recruiting where the sport has gone has changed,

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Speaker 1: and the energy has changed. What remains is the front

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Speaker 1: of the jerseys, the schools, the bands, the fight songs,

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Speaker 1: and what remains is this idea of let's just find

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Speaker 1: a way to win the game, win the day, have

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Speaker 1: one more point than our opponent, and we survive in advance.

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Speaker 1: I want to bring in the perspective of somebody who

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Speaker 1: is a fairly recent friend, right, like like yet last year,

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Speaker 1: but in the last year or maybe the last two

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Speaker 1: years is terms of friendship with the last year in

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Speaker 1: working together. Keel Gan is one of my assistant coaches

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Speaker 1: who joins me. And in terms of different paths to success,

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Speaker 1: my path to success was I was a player, I

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Speaker 1: played overseas, I got an opportunity to do broadcasting. I

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Speaker 1: climbed through broadcasting, and then I got a chance to

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Speaker 1: be a head coach in college, which is a very

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Speaker 1: unique path. His path is a little bit more traditional

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Speaker 1: where he was a manager in college for Green Bray

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Speaker 1: Brian Wordle was the head coach and then he began

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Speaker 1: his path and he's knocking on the door becoming a

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Speaker 1: head coach in his own ride. Kil Let me, just

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Speaker 1: when you went to college you're at Green Bay? Was

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Speaker 1: it always your goal, like I want to be a

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Speaker 1: college basketball coach?

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Speaker 2: Well, first, thanks for having me. Actually, I didn't go

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Speaker 2: to Green Bay right out of high school. I went

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Speaker 2: to Concordi, Wisconsin for two years, and I played my

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Speaker 2: freshman year.

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Speaker 3: So how good were you?

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Speaker 2: Not good? I had a bad senior year. My senior

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Speaker 2: year was almost replicating my junior year of high school,

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Speaker 2: which was disappointing, but I was okay. I mean I

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Speaker 2: was a private, small school guy that probably wasn't as

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Speaker 2: big and strong as he should have been. But I

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Speaker 2: played my freshman year at Concordia. It was a freshman year.

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Speaker 2: Like most, we had a large roster. I played a

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Speaker 2: lot of the JV games, kind of our main group

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Speaker 2: on the varsity whatever you want to call it was

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Speaker 2: actually pretty good, so it really didn't play at all.

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Speaker 2: And then the plan was to keep playing in college.

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Speaker 2: I just was gonna leave. Just wasn't the right fit

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Speaker 2: for me. But I played in a three on three

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Speaker 2: immediately leaving college and broke my wrist, like it had

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Speaker 2: to have been the first or second week after college,

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Speaker 2: and that ruined my whole summer.

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Speaker 1: So how'd you go, Like, Okay, well then I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go to green Bay.

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Speaker 2: Well, green Bay's home, so it was it was easy

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Speaker 2: to just kind of transfer back home. I did live

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Speaker 2: back at home to make it even easier. And then

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Speaker 2: the plan really was never to be a manager. Kind

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Speaker 2: of a friend of a friend. Really a friend told

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Speaker 2: me that his friend was a manager and that they

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Speaker 2: were looking for somebody else.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you go from like you're a player being

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Speaker 1: a manager with Brian Wardle and Wardle at the time

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Speaker 1: young right, and Wardle who I've known since I was

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Speaker 1: recruited by Marquette and initially he played for Mike Dean.

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Speaker 1: And if you know Dino, and again Dino's a friend.

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Speaker 1: But if people think I have a strong relationship with

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Speaker 1: the F word, there's a relationship with curse words with

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Speaker 1: Mike Dean that I mean, it is it is, It

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Speaker 1: is like the greatest bond of all time. What was

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Speaker 1: that experience like as a manager for a young, up

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Speaker 1: and coming fiery head coach like Brian Wardle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was his first two years, so I

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Speaker 2: was only a manager for him for two years, but

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Speaker 2: it was his first two years as a head coach.

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Speaker 2: So Todd Kualchik had left the year before and he

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Speaker 2: had gotten the job, and it was that first year.

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Speaker 2: Group was a pretty veteran group. Ramond Fletcher, Recuase Peren.

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Speaker 2: Those guys were really good. They're experienced. I think we

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Speaker 2: had an okay year. We were right around five hundred.

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Speaker 2: But then the year after we were young and got

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Speaker 2: key for psychs and and that's when you kind of

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Speaker 2: knew where it could be headed.

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Speaker 1: For you. What was there a light bulb moment of

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Speaker 1: I kind of like this, I'd like to do this.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So here's the thing. While I was a manager

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Speaker 2: at Green Bay, who a guy who is now my

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Speaker 2: best friend and we've been friends since we met in college,

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Speaker 2: Matt Macerzak, he coached an AU program. So while we

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Speaker 2: were managers at Green Bay, I don't know if it

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Speaker 2: was legal or not, we were coaching AAU nobody that

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Speaker 2: Green Bay wanted for the most part, right, And that

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Speaker 2: was kind of when the coaching thing, the coaching itch happened.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't really being a manager doing the laundry, cleaning

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Speaker 2: the floor that didn't really get me to want to

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Speaker 2: be a basketball coach. It was the weekends, the planning,

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Speaker 2: the recruiting those kids that really made me want to

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Speaker 2: make it a career.

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Speaker 1: It's actually kind of fascinating. I coached AU before I

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Speaker 1: got this job. I can tell you that there are

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Speaker 1: parts of it that's like yet, like the games and

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Speaker 1: the adjustments and the I've always told I don't think

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Speaker 1: you and I have ever talked about this. People say, like,

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Speaker 1: what's the best part by coaching? I don't know to me,

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Speaker 1: the best part about coaching is especially when you have

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Speaker 1: a practice and you can do it on the sideline,

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Speaker 1: if you drow it up on a board, but if

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Speaker 1: you practice several times over something specific, for some specific

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Speaker 1: thing in a game like this is going to happen.

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Speaker 1: This guy's going to go here, this guy's gonna go there.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna throw it there, he's going to make the shot.

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Speaker 1: And then in the games like, okay, remember that thing

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Speaker 1: we practice, We're going to do it right now. And

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Speaker 1: then you do it, and then the ball goes in

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Speaker 1: and all eyes of can be like thirteen year olds

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Speaker 1: and they look at you like that's the smartest man

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Speaker 1: on earth. Right, that's the best part. And it's such

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Speaker 1: a drug too. It's such a drug. And then you

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Speaker 1: start to go like, oh, but then the parent and

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Speaker 1: my ex wife, God bless her, she used to go like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you do it, Like the parents

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Speaker 1: are just and my parents were always actually great in

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Speaker 1: comparison to the horror stories, but there's still always a

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Speaker 1: parent that's just too much. And those people are the

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Speaker 1: ones that can sometimes drive people out of it, you know. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you get done at Green Bay, you have this

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Speaker 1: experience as an AU coach, you have experience with Brian

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Speaker 1: Wordle as his manager. He's still at Green Bay.

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Speaker 3: Then what.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So Matt left to go be a graduate assist

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Speaker 2: in somewhere, and I, for the most part, was done

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Speaker 2: with college. I kept coaching AU for a few years,

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Speaker 2: so I ran the program kind as my own, tried

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Speaker 2: to go even more less local with it and branch

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Speaker 2: out more around the state as much as I could.

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Speaker 2: I ran the Wisconsin Jets shout out to the Jets

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Speaker 2: for seven years, seven or eight years?

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Speaker 1: Did you guys do that for the game?

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Speaker 2: No? He did, and so seven year roughly about seven years,

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Speaker 2: probably five more years after Matt left.

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Speaker 1: Wait, so what were you doing? Like, this is your

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Speaker 1: job or did you have another job as well?

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Speaker 2: Well? I worked two different jobs. One of them actually

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Speaker 2: was here. I worked here in this building at WFB. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was in sales for about a year and a half,

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Speaker 2: maybe a little bit longer. Again, that's why I'm sitting

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Speaker 2: in this chair, not doing that anymore. And then my

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Speaker 2: father is a My dad's a financial advisor, so I

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Speaker 2: worked for him for a little while.

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Speaker 1: We advise you to get the hell out of coaching

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Speaker 1: pretty much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I did that and then after I well,

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Speaker 2: while I was doing it as well, I also coached

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Speaker 2: high school basketball, So I never really thought I wanted

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Speaker 2: to coach high school basketball. One of my better players

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Speaker 2: his coach left and it was a local high school here,

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Speaker 2: and he asked me, and his parents asked me if

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Speaker 2: I would do it, And at that time I had

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Speaker 2: kind of warmed up to it, so I entertained it.

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Speaker 2: I went through the interview and everything, got the job,

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Speaker 2: and I did that for two years, and then what

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Speaker 2: after that, I went to Saint Norber So I was

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Speaker 2: an assistant for Gary for three years. That was more

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Speaker 2: of a this is your first time really coaching as

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Speaker 2: a job. It wasn't a full time job, but it was.

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Speaker 2: It was a job. So coach for Gary loved all

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Speaker 2: of that.

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Speaker 1: What's he like because he's been incredibly successful for a

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Speaker 1: long time, and like this year is a perfect example

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Speaker 1: for us. Right. We played them early in an exhibition.

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Speaker 1: They were very, very young and in comparison to last

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Speaker 1: year's team that was much more experienced with his son

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Speaker 1: playing on it. The previous year's team which nearly beat

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Speaker 1: Green Bay before I was here, and I watched that

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Speaker 1: film this year. I didn't have I just I was like, man,

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Speaker 1: they're young, this is gonna be a tough year. And

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Speaker 1: then he turns around and wins the league again. Right,

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Speaker 1: So the guy clearly knows what he's doing. What's the

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Speaker 1: secret sauce to Gary.

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Speaker 2: Gresh, he's very consistent with everything he does. I mean,

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Speaker 2: back when I was coaching with him, he was very

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Speaker 2: much looking at previous years practice plans, all the prep,

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Speaker 2: how they built things from the first week of practice.

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Speaker 2: Because remember they're limited, so they're not right when they're

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Speaker 2: on campus. They're not allowed to work with their guys.

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Speaker 2: So he really does a great job of making sure

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Speaker 2: that day one is effective, day two is effective. He's

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Speaker 2: getting the most out of those. And then recruiting wise, honestly,

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Speaker 2: that's probably where the he's the most flexible. He allowed

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Speaker 2: me to go out and recruit three or four days

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Speaker 2: a week and just kind of go wild and recruit

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Speaker 2: who I thought was good enough, and he had an

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Speaker 2: opinion on it, but he wasn't really pulling me back

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Speaker 2: at any point in saying, hold on, I don't like

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Speaker 2: this guy.

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Speaker 1: Who is your favorite player that you signed when you're

390
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Speaker 1: insane armor.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's a great question.

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Speaker 1: I've been doing this a minute.

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Speaker 2: I'll go I'm gonna give you two because it's cheating.

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Speaker 2: Uh So. One of them played AU for me was

395
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Speaker 2: Nolan Byrne, a new Holstein kid like throwback, six foot three,

396
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 2: big man, rebound his you know what off extremely fundamental,

397
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 2: fundamental with his footwork. Fantastic quiet kid, but just worked.

398
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,239
Speaker 2: I loved coaching him, and great family as well. And

399
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 2: then Jared Murphy was kind of the first kid that

400
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 2: I was able to recruit out of Illinois, kind of

401
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Speaker 2: by myself, like I just went into Illinois Rolling Meadows

402
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 2: High School, went to a few of his games, just

403
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: kind of worked, like made sure he knew that we

404
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 2: wanted on how much he'd fit in. That was a

405
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 2: sense of accomplishment. And then there's always the ones that

406
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Speaker 2: got away that you spent too much time recruiting.

407
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Speaker 1: Who is the best one that got away? They went

408
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Speaker 1: up and had like a big time career like I

409
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 1: should have had him.

410
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Speaker 2: Probably Black River Falls Ethan Anderson. He ended up playing

411
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Speaker 2: at lacrosse. I want to say he was a borderline

412
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Speaker 2: all American. They were fantastic. He had a great career,

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Speaker 2: I probably Black River Falls from here is three plus

414
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Speaker 2: hours away. It's the other side of Wisconsin. I probably

415
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Speaker 2: made that drive six or seven times to recruit him

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Speaker 2: and came up empty. Hm.

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Speaker 1: So you're with Gary for how many years?

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Speaker 2: Three?

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Speaker 1: Okay? And then Southern Indiana No.

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Speaker 2: Then Northern Michigan for a year before COVID.

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Speaker 1: Wait, well I didn't know that.

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00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've talked about it. Yeah, so I went up.

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00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,959
Speaker 2: So Mac got the job at Northern Michigan and he

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Speaker 2: asked me to come with and I said no.

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Speaker 1: And then did you say yeah no or do you

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Speaker 1: say no yeah?

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Speaker 2: No? I said no.

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Speaker 1: That was that was me doing my I've learned that.

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Speaker 1: I've learned Green Bay. I've learned green Bay dialect.

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Speaker 2: It's not just green Bay, it's it's even better up north.

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Speaker 1: So wait, so how does it go up north? If

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Speaker 1: you're gonna say no, you say no yeah, or you

433
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: say yeah no? Because I thought yeah no is yes?

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00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: And no yeah is no?

435
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: I'm confused, Yeah no no, Yeah, it goes both ways.

436
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: I think, why didn't you want to go with him

437
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: at first?

438
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: Well, we we're about to have a child. So the

439
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: timing worked out very poorly. So my son was born

440
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 2: in September. The end of September. Obviously, I had to leave.

441
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: Your timing, by the way, is awful with all of

442
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 1: your children, right, really and for people who don't know,

443
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: the Gansas welcome in their third in the middle of

444
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: our season this year. Now, actually we'll get to how

445
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: amazing the timing was there. Yeah, right, But when I

446
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: was initially hiring you, I was like, You're like, well,

447
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: my wife is pregnant, she's when she do in November.

448
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 1: And I was like, m it's arable timing. But anyway,

449
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: we did. We did it. But so you're gonna have

450
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: your first born and being from Green Bay, wife being

451
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: from here everything, and he's like come up to Marquette

452
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, no, no, yeah, So but you

453
00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: did end up going up there.

454
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: I did. So there's a lot of things that went

455
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 2: in the decision. For the most part, my wife had

456
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 2: kind of just started her new career. Well no, that

457
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: actually that's not true. She at that point had just

458
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 2: become a manager of a store of Tjmax and it

459
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 2: was yeah, and and she was getting paid pretty well.

460
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 2: So it wasn't something that she would just turn around

461
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 2: and leave and we would go up three hours to Marqutte, Michigan.

462
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: So we kind of tried to see if she could

463
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: get a job up there at the TJ Max and

464
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: it really didn't work out, I guess skipping ahead a

465
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: little bit. But so I went up there with Matt.

466
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: I lived with him for a year, so that made

467
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: it easier financially, and then she was able to be here.

468
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: Our families are here, so that that made it easier

469
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 2: with Kest and her son.

470
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: Okay, So then you left again, now this time for

471
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 1: Southern Indiana, right.

472
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 2: Kinda, So I left, I left. There are some years

473
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: off in there, so.

474
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: Wait, what do you mean there's years off?

475
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 2: Well, so COVID was I left the year of COVID.

476
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: Okay, So so take me back to COVID. So I

477
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: love I don't love telling this story because it's not

478
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: like COVID was the greatest thing ever. But I'll take

479
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: you through my memories of when COVID because this were

480
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: hitting on the sixth I think like today or yesterday

481
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: was like the sixth anniversary of when everything shut down. Right, So,

482
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,719
Speaker 1: in the days leading up to up to it, I

483
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: was very well aware of things going on in the news,

484
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: which is very different. And I actually really understand when

485
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: college basketball coaches, not all of them, but many of them. Like,

486
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: I had no idea what was going on because I

487
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: it was the like the Mexico cartel war. I didn't

488
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: know until like two weeks later that that was going

489
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: on on us attacking Iran, Like I didn't know until

490
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: like two days ago. I had no idea because you're

491
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: so immersed in what you're doing. You know, you really are,

492
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: at least I am. I know, and I know you

493
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: are as well, because you're unbelievable worker in your profession.

494
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: But when I'm doing a national radio show and I

495
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 1: got time on my hands and I'm driving, I was

496
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: very well aware of the flu that was, you know,

497
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: started potentially in China and whatever. And I remember going

498
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: in and I was hosting Colin Coward, guest hosting Colin

499
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: Coward show. I'd always guest host a show on championship

500
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: week because he wasn't really into it, and he would

501
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 1: take that time off and then he'd come back and

502
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: work a couple days during the NCAA tournament, pretend like

503
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: he knew college basketball, like Colin's the best that way,

504
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: And the first day was like a Monday, and we'd

505
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 1: have a meeting at six o'clock and at like seven

506
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: fifteen we were done with the meeting. The show started

507
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: at nine o'clock and I remember talking with one of

508
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: the like one executive producer who's in on the meetings,

509
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: and we're walking out of the meeting and I was like, Hey,

510
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: I kind of think we might want to talk about

511
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: this flu thing. And he's like, it's a sports show,

512
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: make them happy or make them mad at your take,

513
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: not a not a health show. And I was like, yeah,

514
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: I understand, but there's all these sports coming up and

515
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: it could potentially affect them. And he's like, when it

516
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: affects them, we'll talk about it. I was like, oh, okay,

517
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: that makes sense. And then the next day was Tuesday,

518
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: and now it was really starting to become a thing.

519
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: And this is the night of the Rudy Gobert touching

520
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: the microphone and everything deal, and I.

521
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: Just had the anniversary of that. I saw it.

522
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I'm literally walking out to the sound

523
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: stage it's eight twenty five for the nine o'clock show,

524
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: and I remember and he's still an executive at Fox Sports,

525
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: and I go, look, dude, I'm just telling you, like,

526
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: I think there might not be an NCAA tournament. And

527
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: he's like, you're I think when it affects sports. I

528
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: was like, I just were at that. I'm telling you

529
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: we're at that moment. He's like, we're not at that

530
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: moment because it has not affected sports yet. It's like,

531
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, this is what we do. Not talk

532
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: about it because it doesn't affect what we're doing currently.

533
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: I was like, are you sure? Yes? So then I

534
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: go home and that night I'm watching TV and then

535
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: the Rudy Gobert thing happens and the NBA shuts down,

536
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm but I'm off that next day because

537
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm flying to Chicago to do the Big Ten Tournament

538
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: for Compass Media Network. And I had like two jobs

539
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: in one. I was a company called Stadium, which was streaming,

540
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: and I did a show with Jeff Goodman as well

541
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: as Compass, and I'm doing my radio show. So I'm

542
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: juggling all these things. I'm driving on the four h

543
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: five and my executive producer for the radio broadcast text

544
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: me and she says, where are you? And I'm you know,

545
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to be texting and driving. But I'm

546
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: texting and driving. I'm like, I'm on the four h

547
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: five headed to Chicago, and she says, turn around, And

548
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: like the idiot that I am, I sit there and

549
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: go I thought she was behind me and she knew

550
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: my car and we're both headed to on the four

551
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: h five and we're going to the airport. And then

552
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know where you are. She's like,

553
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: no turn around. The tournament's been canceled. Keep in mind

554
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: the night before, not only was everything shut down, my

555
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: brother was an assistant coach at Oregon State and they

556
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: won on a buzzer shot. I think they beat Colorado

557
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: in the Pac ten Tournament Pac twelve tournament right in

558
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: Las Vegas. They win on a buzzer shot. That's the

559
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: last complete game that year in college basketball, right, So

560
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: we all have claims to fame. My brother and Carrie Rupp,

561
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: our assistant coach. There claim to fame is they co

562
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: coached the last college basketball game before COVID shut it down. Anyway,

563
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: So then I'm like, what do you mean, Like it's canceled.

564
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: Everything's canceled. I turn on the radio, every like everything

565
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: is starting to shut down. The Big East Tournament had

566
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: a halftime. They played a first half of the game

567
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: and didn't play the second half of the game. So

568
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: where were you when the world shut down?

569
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 2: I was home. We were done by then. So we

570
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: had a I mean, we had a pretty successful first

571
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: year in Northern Michigan. They were coming off a few

572
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: good teams that probably underachieved a little bit. And then

573
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: we brought some of those guys back except two of

574
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: the top scores, two of the all time leading scores,

575
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: and put together a pretty good team. But we're done.

576
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: I was back in Green Bay and all the COVID

577
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: stuff was just about happening. We had a newborn, and

578
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 2: it just didn't know. My wife couldn't get a job

579
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: up there. I don't at the time, like even looking back,

580
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was the right decision or not.

581
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: But we decided like, hey, I don't know if you

582
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: can do this again, or I don't know if we

583
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: can do this as a husband and wife again with

584
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: a newborn. So I told Matt that, hey, I think

585
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: I'm done, and he was like, okay, I mean at

586
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: this point where we're pretty close, we've gone through some

587
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: wars together. He kind of got it.

588
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: Well when we said done, you were done at Northern Michigan,

589
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: or you're just like I'm going to do something other

590
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: than coaching.

591
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: H maybe a little bit of both. Like I was

592
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: pretty realistic about it, like I'm walking away from a

593
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 2: great opportunity that I worked pretty hard to get and

594
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: I knew that if I left that that was probably it, right,

595
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: like I would keep trying or do what it takes

596
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: to to stay in the business because I loved coaching,

597
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: but again, realistic about it. So then it really did

598
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: nothing for COVID like most of people. And then got

599
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: involved with a startup company that did a lot of

600
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: tagging and clipping for NBA teams of NBA prospects. So

601
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: I did that for about ten months. It was it

602
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: was a seasonal job, they called it.

603
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: So you're working for a company when the world shut.

604
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: Down more or less.

605
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually kind of great that you got a

606
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: chance to work when people weren't working.

607
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 3: I was.

608
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: I was still We did still did radio shows, sports

609
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: radio shows that that entire time. It's actually one of

610
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: my sorry favorite times. I know people got sick and

611
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: died and I'm I'm not not empathetic and not. I'm

612
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: not not empathetic towards it. I'm just telling you from

613
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: a personal perspective. You know, I went through a bunch

614
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: of tough It wasn't I wasn't, we weren't. And I

615
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: was in the greatest place with my now ex wife

616
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: at the time. But I got a chance to way.

617
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: It was like all your your kids are around and

618
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: when you work the way I worked, and you're constantly

619
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: traveling the way I constantly traveled, and you're in Los Angeles.

620
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: I was in Orange County and I'm driving fifty one miles.

621
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: I still drove to work. Actually I musta share my

622
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: this is I have. I have a really funny story.

623
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: So in southern California, I had a special pass because

624
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: there was a time in which they thought they were

625
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: going to not allow you to travel or drive long

626
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: distances or whatever. Like it was as you know, it

627
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: was very very serious at times. And when you get

628
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: when you get to Los Angeles County, I actually was

629
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: given a special pass, a media pass where it would

630
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 1: like if they stop me, I'm like, hey, I'm I'm

631
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: what was the term that they used, or like you're

632
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: like a you're like your job was like a necessity

633
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: or something. Right, it's the reason that coffee places were

634
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: still open.

635
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 3: Right.

636
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: That was like sports radio, really, but technically we're in

637
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: the media. Technically we're in the news. So it kind

638
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: of got into a technicality.

639
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: Do you still have the pass?

640
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 3: I do not? I do not.

641
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: I probably would have been a good one to save.

642
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 1: But so I lived fifty one miles from where Fox

643
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: Sports Radio broadcasts from. I had a home unit, which

644
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: is called an ISDN. Now I've done everything on a

645
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: com Rex. Comrex is much less. It's not expensive at all.

646
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: You just plug it into an Ethernet. DN is a

647
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: special line that everyone has technically in their home phone lines.

648
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: There's like if you look, if you open up the wall,

649
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: there's like two lines. The ICDN line is actually in there,

650
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: but it's a different line, and AT and T, in

651
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: an effort to phase that out, made it increasingly expensive

652
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: to have. So I had a com Rex unit that

653
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: had just been sent to me like the week before

654
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: the world shut down that was supposed to be mine,

655
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: and Cowherd ended up kind of stealing it because he

656
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: didn't have the DN line. The iced N line was expensive.

657
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: So what they said was, hey, here's what we'll do.

658
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: You come in here two or three days a week,

659
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: work from home two or three days a week. That way,

660
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: we don't fire up the DN line every time. And

661
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: for me it wasn't that bad because it was my

662
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: only chance to really get out of the house and

663
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: it was like a straight shot. And I'm telling you, like,

664
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 1: what was an hour and fifteen hour and a half

665
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: drive every day was literally forty five minutes. So it

666
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: sounds like a dream. You're like, oh, forty five minutes

667
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: on literally the four or five, Like you get on

668
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: the seventy three to the four h five and you're

669
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: going ninety five the whole time, and it's amazing, Like

670
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: it's what was that Will Smith movie? I Am Legend?

671
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: Remember I Am Legend where it's like you're in New

672
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: York and there's no people there. That's what it was like.

673
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: Like you're driving like this is the greatest freeway system

674
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 1: on Earth, and I am literally speed racer every day.

675
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 1: There's one catch. Though coffee places are open, you can't

676
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: go in them to use the restroom. We've known each

677
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: other long enough to know I got like a thirty

678
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: minute there's like a thirty minute window there when I

679
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: hit the thirty minute window. Sometimes that thirty minute window

680
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: is like fifteen. Sometimes it's like forty five or an

681
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: hour fifteen. But anyone who's head coffee knows it is

682
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: a diuretic. I can tell you with embarrassinglyy so. But

683
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 1: now it's where like that passed it. I did have

684
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 1: one morning in which there's nothing I could do. I

685
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: pulled over in the freeway, ran into the bushes. And

686
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: it was not simply it was it was it was

687
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: it was the wrong kind of of mourning. It was.

688
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: And then you're like, uh.

689
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: Oh, well, you know when the shot clock's counted it.

690
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: We didn't have an end of shot clock plan. That's

691
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 1: that I think, which was a problem with us early

692
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: in the season, right, didn't really have an end of

693
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: shot clock out. So uh yeah, it was. But there

694
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: was also you know, my son and I we we

695
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: shot hoops every day. He went surfing every day. You know,

696
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: you're with your family every day, and in a place

697
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: like southern California where you're constantly moving, and and my daughter,

698
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: who rides horses, got to ride every day. That was

699
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: like her escape. And so there's a lot of actually

700
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: happy memories for me being with my family. Meanwhile, you're

701
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: at home, home making making cash for your newborn, and

702
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've got a chance to spend like great

703
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: time with no.

704
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: No, yeah, no, I agree. I was shaken my head.

705
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: I agree, it was. It was even hard to describe

706
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: because you were obviously trapped at home, right and you

707
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: were able to raise your own kid and just be

708
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: around your kid all day and then run down in

709
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: the basement and clip some players and take some games

710
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So it was kind of fun.

711
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 2: Now that was more of the tail off of COVID,

712
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: kind of leading into the next year where some people

713
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 2: did play a little bit, but we had the spacing

714
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 2: rules and all that stuff in place.

715
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: But so that year I was again. I broadcast more

716
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: games that year than any year in my life. But

717
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: the way it worked was you'd fly in and it

718
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: was that was my favorite year in terms of my

719
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: relationship with coaches, because you'd go I could go to

720
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: their shoot around, and the coaches it was like they

721
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: were so isolated that even coaches who didn't like me

722
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: would welcome me in like real person from the outside world,

723
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: and we'd have these incredible conversations about like life and

724
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 1: what you've been doing and how you bide your time

725
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: and because and then you had to broadcast the game,

726
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: usually from like the second deck, and there'd be limited

727
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: number of people in there. It was so odd, But

728
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: I was in. I did. I did like fifteen Utah

729
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: State games that year I was. I was in, and

730
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 1: I did a bunch of Mountain West stuff, and I mean,

731
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many Big Ten tournament we

732
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: did from that was when the entire tournament was in Indianapolis,

733
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: so you had Big ten tournament to NCAA tournament. And

734
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: then I did radio for Westwood One, so I actually

735
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: was in Indianapolis like sequestered for like two weeks, and

736
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: then I was in Los Angeles in a studio for

737
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: like for like two weeks. But that was a fascinating year.

738
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 2: So then, well then and remember or how all every

739
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 2: coach wanted to like share all of their secrets via

740
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 2: whatever coaching clinics, online coaching clinics and stuff. So that

741
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 2: was kind of fun.

742
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean again, there's lots of they don't there's

743
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,479
Speaker 1: lots of bad that came out of it. There's lots

744
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 1: of really interesting and good that came out of it.

745
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 1: So what led you to get back into coaching.

746
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: Uh, well, I obviously the time away distance makes your

747
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 2: heart go fond at what is that saying. I knew

748
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 2: that I wanted to get back in. It really was

749
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 2: a career for me. Now, this is where I had

750
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,919
Speaker 2: to try to find any opportunity possible that would take

751
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: me being the guy that hadn't coached a few years.

752
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: So I got in with a friend of a friend. Again,

753
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 2: it's who you know, not what you know that got

754
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: me at Southern Indiana got me the dobo job. At

755
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: Southern Indiana they had just made the transition to Vision one.

756
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 2: They didn't have a paid dobo position, so I worked

757
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 2: for free and move down there, live without my family.

758
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 2: That's nine hours away. Eight nine hours away, live down

759
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 2: there to kind of get back into it.

760
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 1: What was it like?

761
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 2: It was tough. It was tough from a living standpoint.

762
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: I mean I worked pretty hard that year. I mean

763
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: I was the one that was up every morning watching

764
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 2: guys at LYFT. I would more or less be the

765
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 2: last one to leave. I wasn't able to very strict

766
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 2: on my restrictions. It was the last year of me

767
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: really of the doble director of operations position, not really

768
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 2: being able to coach. So I was very much on

769
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: the sideline, not really allowed to do anything, just doing

770
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 2: all the travel and all the operational stuff. So it's

771
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: not what I enjoyed. I would really never want to

772
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: do it again because it's just not doesn't really fit me.

773
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: But I wanted to get back in and I just

774
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: was kind of willing to do what it took to

775
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 2: do that.

776
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: What led you to go back to coach with Matt?

777
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so okay. So once I once the season ended

778
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 2: at Southern Indiana, I told Stan that, hey, since I'm

779
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 2: not getting paid and there was a thought that I

780
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 2: would come back for year two and get a paid position,

781
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 2: and that just didn't happen. So I told Stan, like

782
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 2: I am, I will resign from my position, and if

783
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 2: you think that something could happen later on where I

784
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 2: can be hired as as full time, I'll come back.

785
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, I think I want to either

786
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: coach AAU again or go recruiting and just kind of

787
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 2: not lose knowledge of who's who and where they are.

788
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 2: So I did that. I worked to find another job.

789
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: I was at the eleventh hour of joining Triton Junior

790
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 2: College in Chicago as an assistant coach, and as that

791
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 2: was kind of going on, Charlie, who replaced me at Northern,

792
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: got a head coaching position and Matt said, you want

793
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 2: to come back? And I said yes, So I went

794
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 2: back up.

795
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: Oh what's your wife saying through it?

796
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: I mean, she's the best she appears to be.

797
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 3: She made, she's.

798
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 2: She's very willing to uh, to go with the flow,

799
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: and and I think she could tell that I wanted

800
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: to to do it again or be involved in it.

801
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 2: And at that point we're in a better spot with

802
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 2: kids and careers. She had completely changed her career at

803
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 2: that point and had gone into business for herself. So

804
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: that's when a little bit before that, she reopened or

805
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: she opened up a store in Green Bank.

806
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: Can can you give us the details of the store?

807
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a vintage home good place. I don't really

808
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 2: remember what street it's on, but it's on the Broadway

809
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 2: area of Green Bay, kindred vintage. And then she does

810
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: a lot of like traveling with flea market sales and

811
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 2: stuff like that. So she was pretty busy with that.

812
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 2: But we had made the more of a commitment to Hey,

813
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: if we go up there. We're gonna We're gonna go

814
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 2: up there. We're gonna get a place and we're gonna

815
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: make this home.

816
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 1: It's on Dawsman string.

817
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 3: Thank you.

818
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, shout out to Kindred Vintage.

819
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 1: Dowsman and Broadway. There you go Dowsman in Broadway.

820
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 3: Well make you look like a better.

821
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 2: We got that.

822
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:45,479
Speaker 1: So, so what you guys were able to do at

823
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: Northern right, because this year matt once again they won

824
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: their conference. Last year you guys won the conference tournament.

825
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: You guys, have you put together something really impressive?

826
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, four years in a row winning a conference championship.

827
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 1: And and by the way, at the same time, Michigan

828
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: Tech also putting together It's you know, it's like one

829
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: of those things. What's I think what's most impressive frankly

830
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: about both programs is like the rise of Michigan State

831
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: basketball coincided with the downfall of Michigan basketball, right, Like

832
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,959
Speaker 1: that's the kind of dirty little secret too, because Tom

833
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: Izzo recruited me from the delivery room of his first baby.

834
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 1: He was people forget. Tom Mizzo is a longtime assistant

835
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: for Jeded Heathcote at Michigan State. He was named the

836
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: head coach in waiting, and he was recruiting while still

837
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: an assistant coach. So he calls me. This is nineteen

838
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: the summer of nineteen ninety four, and he put the

839
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: doctor on the phone. Kid, I don't know who you are,

840
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: but coach is I was about to have his first

841
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: baby and he wants you to be his first point guard.

842
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: That was literally and that you want to talk about

843
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: dumb decisions I've made, right, And John McLeod is an

844
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: amazing man. Notre Dame was an amazing school. But I

845
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: could have been tom Izzo's first point guard guard. Which

846
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: if I was tom Izzo's first point guard, who knows

847
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: that my team Cleaves ever goes there?

848
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 3: Right?

849
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: And if a teen Cleeves doesn't go there and I'm

850
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: his point guard, I'm probably a Division one head coach

851
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: at a high major right now, right, Like that's very

852
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: because that was my that was always sort of my plan. Uh.

853
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: But what happened was people forget Robert Traylor, who I

854
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: wanted to play with in college when I when I

855
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: was going to set to visit Michigan State, I played against. Uh,

856
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: everybody called him truck trailer, truck tractor Trailer, but everybody

857
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: called him Truck back then when when I played against

858
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: the ABCD, like I wanted to play with that guy

859
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: because I'd never seen anything like him. I'd never seen it.

860
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to play like it was.

861
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: I was just fascinated by how amazingly talented that guy was,

862
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: and he always played basketball with a huge smile in

863
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: his face, and I was like, I just I thought

864
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: he was the coolest dude ever. And the week before

865
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: I was set to visit with him, Albert White, who

866
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: ended up committing to Michigan as well, and Jason Klein

867
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: who went to Michigan State, like we were all going

868
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: to go on a visit together and it was gonna

869
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: be a like kind of fab five whatever. They committed

870
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: to Michigan. But what happened was the next year, Tractor

871
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: Trailer was taking matteaen Cleaves on his official visit to Michigan.

872
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: They were going to a casino and I think he

873
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: flipped or something with a Ford Explorer. The cops roll

874
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: up to this car accident or Ford Explorer. There's five

875
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: Michigan ball players and they're like, who's the car registered to?

876
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: And it was to Tractor trailer's grandma, who's in a wheelchair, right,

877
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: you can't drive? That's what this is what happened. And

878
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: then it began the investigation. Turns out Michigan was cheating.

879
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 1: Who knew everybody? And so Michigan basketball down. Michigan State

880
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: basketball up right, It wasn't. It wasn't the rising tide

881
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 1: lifts all ships. It was literally that until John Beeline

882
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: got to Michigan, Michigan basketball was down, went on probation.

883
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 1: It was like a seven or eight year recovery. Tommy

884
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: Amerker could never get it going right anyway. But the

885
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: point is that what is super impressive about what you

886
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: and Matt and Matt Matt has obviously been able to

887
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: carry on this year at Northern Michigan is your rise

888
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: has been during the exact same rise of Michigan Tech.

889
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: And you guys have both been really good. How's that possible?

890
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 2: Well, I'll give credit to Kevin Louke and Josh Bitner,

891
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 2: like those guys kind of had it in a good

892
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 2: spot leading up to that. I mean, they had Kyle Monroe,

893
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: local local guy here in Green Bay. He was fantastic.

894
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 2: He was an All American. Owen White was AAU player

895
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 2: of mine went to Michigan Tech. He also was an

896
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 2: All American Player of the Year player, So they they

897
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 2: were in a pretty good spot, but they had a

898
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 2: down year and that that kind of start the beginning

899
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: of the Northern Michigan run. I'll say they got Matt

900
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 2: and Charlie, got a few really good players that played

901
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 2: for four years, Like played played for four years leading

902
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 2: up to it, Getting Max Wisebroad, getting Dylan Keel, those

903
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: guys kind of changed it in terms of maintaining success.

904
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 1: Okay, so you come back here to Green Bay and

905
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 1: now you're a full time assistant coach. What's it been

906
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: like for you all these years later to sweep back

907
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: in and oh yeah, by the way, I mean I

908
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: would I'd say Preston Rudinger number one guy that helped

909
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: turn turn us around. But you, you and Coach Andy

910
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: Ground and coach Carrie Rupp, I think are are like

911
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: all two A, B and C or whatever in terms

912
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: of what's led What has this experience been like for you?

913
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 2: It's been a roller coaster in terms of getting hired

914
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 2: so late and then kind of being into it right away.

915
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 2: So I've been able to at times kind of be

916
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,240
Speaker 2: in the moment and go this is cool. This is cool.

917
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 2: I remember being here when I was twenty one years old, Right,

918
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 2: this is a fun memory, a fun moment. Now that

919
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 2: I'm out of it, I kind of am able to

920
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 2: see big picture. This is now the Green Bay that

921
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: I remember. Right. We're in the top three in the

922
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 2: Horizon League. There's a lot of expectations on us now.

923
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 2: I would say it's really cool to be a part

924
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: of it in more of a meaningful way than when

925
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: I was sweeping the floors and doing the laundry.

926
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's interesting. I when I took the job,

927
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: I have so many people outside of Green Bay telling

928
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: me about how hard it is and about how you know,

929
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: you know, he's talk underfunded or whatever, and I just

930
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it hasn't been hardened. It's not going

931
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: to be hard to take it to the next step

932
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: because the goal is not here. It's like, I did

933
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: an interview with these guys here and they're like, you know,

934
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 1: how rewarding is, and it's like, I, I honestly don't.

935
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: I feel like we lost three or four games. We

936
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:23,919
Speaker 1: absolutely should have won. We should have won the league.

937
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: We should be we should be playing right now. It's

938
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: just I mean, how any of us are actually wired right?

939
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: But I can tell you onequivocally it has been an

940
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,959
Speaker 1: amazing that the feeling has been amazing because people actually care.

941
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: And in our in our league, in the Horizon League,

942
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: it's not full of teams where schools actually care. It's

943
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: it's sad to me, it just is. It's sad to me,

944
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: but it's been amazing. And there are moments, honestly in

945
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: my position where I take snapshots and watch you and

946
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 1: I'm always wondering, like, what's he thinking right now? Because

947
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: it's kind of cool, right because anyone who goes or

948
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: grows up round like for me, I grew up. I

949
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: don't know if people know this. I grew upund Ucilla basketball.

950
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: My dad was a season takeover. He was really close

951
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: with Walt Hazzard. Uh to two hazard is Rashid is

952
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: a dear friend of mine. We played basketball. I used

953
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: to stay at his house and then we were I

954
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: was a ball boy when Reggie Miller was was a

955
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: senior and like Reggie was always the the just the coolest,

956
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: nicest dude ever. And then Jim Herrick became the coach,

957
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 1: and we again always kind of round the program, and

958
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: they actually offered me a scholarship. And you want to

959
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: talk about idiot high school kid, right, here's the conversation

960
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: at the Las Vegas Hilton summer before my senior year.

961
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: At the time, Las Vegas was everything for West Coast

962
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: au High school basketball, and Coach Harrick called me. He

963
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: was also staying at the Hilton, and I had seen

964
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: him like in the casino walking up and he said, Dougie,

965
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: I bet you always dreamed of of this moment. I'm

966
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: gonna offering you a scholarship to you. C l A

967
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: not the only he would always say, like, not the

968
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: only school, just the best and uh and and I said, well, actually, coach,

969
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: I always wanted to go to Duke, but they signed

970
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: Wojo last year. But yeah, I always have like loved

971
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: the Bruins, you know, Like my sister was a cheerleader

972
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 1: at UCLA for four years. My brother has a UCLA

973
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: degree as well. He walked on Herrick did cut him,

974
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: but he cut him fortule Richie, who was became a

975
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: scholarship player at Virginia. So anyway, but I like that

976
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: was my answer to I know you've always wanted to

977
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: be a bruin. I was like, well, I always want

978
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: to play duke.

979
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 2: That's the thing. I don't want to give the perception

980
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 2: that I like grew up going to Phoenix Games like

981
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 2: a lot of other people. Like I grew up in

982
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 2: Sheboy in Wisconsin for the most part, like from the

983
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 2: age of two to fifth grade, and we didn't drive

984
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,399
Speaker 2: to Green Bay and go to Phoenix Games. But when

985
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 2: I went to school here, I dove in like I

986
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 2: cared and it just felt right. It felt like home,

987
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 2: like this was my college. But there's a lot of

988
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 2: people in Green Bay, Like when I was coaching with Gary,

989
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people that walk around and go like,

990
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 2: that's Gary Gresh. I remember when you guard to Jason Kidd,

991
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of people that did it from

992
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,399
Speaker 2: very little all the way through and are more die

993
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 2: hard fans than I was.

994
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: It's still cool, though, to be it is to circle

995
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: back and be a part of your alma mater.

996
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 3: Yep.

997
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: Okay, So now you're at an interesting kind of place

998
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: in your career. Right You're up for, I know, a

999
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: Division two head coaching job, but we were also kind

1000
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 1: of building something really really cool, And I honestly think

1001
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 1: you're in a similar situation to many of our players,

1002
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: where you can stay and be a part of this

1003
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: growth and you'll make more money, or you can go

1004
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: kind of out on your own, and which is what

1005
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: you're ultimately kind of building for. What's that actually like

1006
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 1: to be when you look at it from that perspective.

1007
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 2: There are two dreams of mine, I guess, and I'm

1008
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: not saying I'm going to get this job, but there

1009
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 2: are two dreams of mine that are kind of going

1010
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 2: head to head a little bit. Being able to come

1011
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 2: back to Green Bay and coach here is something I've

1012
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 2: always wanted. This is home for me. My family's here,

1013
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 2: my wife's family's here. It's something that I never thought

1014
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 2: could be real. I looked up to the assistant coaches

1015
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 2: that I worked for when I was a manager here.

1016
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 2: I have good friendships if you call them, with them

1017
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 2: still to this day. But I got into this to

1018
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 2: be a head coach, right. I want to find out

1019
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 2: if I'm good enough all the work that I've put

1020
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 2: in when I have an idea and I that I

1021
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 2: I can do it right and not have DG say

1022
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 2: not we're good, that I that I do it and

1023
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 2: find out if it works right. So we'll see how

1024
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 2: it all plays out. I mean I I in no

1025
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 2: way will I be bothered or angry or well angry

1026
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 2: longer than twenty four hours that uh, I didn't get

1027
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 2: the job right, because I'm in a I'm in a

1028
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 2: great spot, and I'm very much appreciative of you and

1029
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 2: and bringing me in here and all the guys that

1030
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 2: I work work with and players that I get to coach.

1031
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, being able to call the shots is something

1032
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 2: I've always thought about.

1033
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: And then how it relates to our players, right, like

1034
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: this is a it's a hard one for our guys.

1035
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: Like I legitimately feel for our players because on one

1036
00:56:54,160 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: hand was the what we've been able to build in

1037
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 1: terms of culture, camaraderie, chemistry. I don't know, like those

1038
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: guys legitimately like love each other, love each other, And

1039
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: I'll take credit for it. I honestly two years in

1040
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: a row, I mean, believe it or not, they were

1041
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: just as close on the four win team once we

1042
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,479
Speaker 1: cut off some of the gristle about mid season, and

1043
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: but what we were able to create this year is special.

1044
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: But let's not forget part of what was megaspecial was

1045
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 1: how bad it was the year before. Right, But there's

1046
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: all these feel good feelings, and you know, one of

1047
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: the things that I tried to create was no entitlement.

1048
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 3: Right.

1049
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 1: I totally understand that somebody's perception of me would be

1050
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 1: I'd be entitled because I got a job, not having

1051
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: to go through the coaching ranks, and I came in

1052
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: as a national radio host and whatever, and somebody would

1053
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: have a perception of me. I don't think that's the

1054
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 1: and I like surrounding myself. I think Green Bay is

1055
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: at its best when it mirrors the community, and the

1056
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: community is a non entitled community. Like one of the

1057
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 1: first things I learned in Wisconsin is you can be

1058
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: sitting at a bar and there can be two guys

1059
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: next year on either side, and they both have blue

1060
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: jeans on and they're both drinking in Wisconsin ol fashion,

1061
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: and one is a multi millionaire and the other one,

1062
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 1: it just got done in nine to five, hates his wife,

1063
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah, And there's no difference between

1064
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 1: the two people. There's just no difference. They just not

1065
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: like you couldn't tell who's rich and who's poor because

1066
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: everybody's just like, we get up, we go to work,

1067
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: and then we go home. We do it again. We

1068
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: get up, we're go to work. We cheer for the

1069
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: pack of the weekend, right, that's what we do. And

1070
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: so we brought in ten new guys. None of them

1071
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: have been Division I players. Probably a mistake on some level,

1072
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: but the idea was everybody had been told no multiple

1073
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: times in their career and that was kind of the

1074
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: binding glue of Hey, I was told that I wasn't

1075
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 1: good enough, told that I suck. All our assistant coaches

1076
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: are guys that have been fired or had had climbed

1077
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: Like there's a certain hunger and tenacity which kind of

1078
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 1: binds it together. You get done with that, and there's

1079
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 1: the really hard decision of for a couple of our

1080
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: guys without penalty, you can go to a higher level,

1081
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: make more money, and everything is better on the surface, Right,

1082
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: The food's better, the dorms are better, the gyms are better,

1083
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: the competition is is better, the money is better, the

1084
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: women probably look better, right, the guys smell better. Or

1085
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: you can lock back in with us and do it

1086
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: again and grind through it like that's a really it's

1087
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: a really hard decision, especially when you're like twenty years

1088
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: old and you're like, you know, like I. They like you.

1089
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: They've always dreamed probably of playing into Big ten, right,

1090
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 1: And do you want to play against pick a school

1091
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: in our league, Cleveland State, which has this gigantic arena

1092
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: and they got like fifty people there, or do you

1093
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: want to go play at Michigan State where they camp

1094
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: out overnight for games? Like That's a really hard decision.

1095
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: And again when you look at it from if I'm

1096
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:16,919
Speaker 1: offered the Michigan State job, like I love it here,

1097
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: but what am I going to do? You know, I'm

1098
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: going to take the Michigan State job. And I actually

1099
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: feel for our players in that decision that they have

1100
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:26,439
Speaker 1: to make.

1101
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 2: I agree, I do not envy them at all. I

1102
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 2: think the only way that I, in my short time

1103
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 2: doing this, have have had a I don't know, an

1104
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 2: issue with that process with them is when they perceive

1105
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 2: our side of it wrong, right, Like I think we've

1106
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 2: been very straightforward at Northern Michigan. We're very straightforward with guys.

1107
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,919
Speaker 2: Do you want to go in? I get you want

1108
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 2: to go in. Everybody's curious to a certain degree, and

1109
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 2: you get a few days to be curious and find

1110
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 2: out what's real. You can always come back, right, But

1111
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 2: it is a hard decision. It is because you got

1112
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 2: to find out if you're actually gonna play. I mean,

1113
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 2: for the most part, the guys that would leave here

1114
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 2: are going to be guys that are playing and have

1115
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 2: a pretty good role and could bring back a good

1116
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 2: group that could win a lot of games. But part

1117
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 2: of growing up and part of being a man or

1118
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 2: an adult is making decisions that are going to affect

1119
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 2: the rest of your life.

1120
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: That's a great point. It's it's a hard one. The

1121
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: other one is I was driving here thinking about this.

1122
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: I think we've done a really good job of developing

1123
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 1: guys and putting guys in good situations, and so there's

1124
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: but there's part of me that says, like I don't

1125
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: want to go over the top, Like the kids do

1126
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: the work right. So there's a there's a pride in

1127
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: watching so many of our guys who were very lightly

1128
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: or not recruited at all succeed and then look at

1129
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: them now, like he was here, look at him now.

1130
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: I did that. On the other hand, like I want

1131
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 1: to get the proper credit right, the credit should be

1132
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: I saw a role, and we collectively created a role

1133
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: for said player to have success. On the other hand,

1134
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: the player himself has to has to get a ton

1135
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: of credit because we can't work with them at all hours.

1136
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 1: We just can't. And it comes down to them getting

1137
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: in the gym, doing the work, them buying into the

1138
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: role that we had, and then ultimately succeeding on the court,

1139
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: which we don't do right Like we just I can't

1140
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 1: make the shots for them. I can't make the cuts

1141
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: for them. I can't get the defensive style I can.

1142
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: We can only kind of create those things. It's an

1143
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: interesting place to be in because so many coaches you

1144
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: struggle with, like you want them to play for you

1145
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: when they go somewhere else, you want to get some

1146
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 1: sort of credit for it, but you want to get

1147
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 1: the right amount of credit for it. All I come

1148
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: back to it's a lot like coaching in you basketball.

1149
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: I just want somebody to go like, hey man, thanks,

1150
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, thanks, this was really cool. You help me

1151
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: get to someplace that maybe I dreamed of but wasn't possible.

1152
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 1: And then here's the hard part for somebody who's a fan,

1153
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 1: is if a kid decides to leave and go to

1154
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: a higher level. You just have to champion it. There's

1155
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: no other place to you can. Of course, you can

1156
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: be mad and bitter and all those things, but then

1157
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 1: you have to ask yourself what would I do?

1158
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 3: Right?

1159
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: Like we all say like, oh, I'd be loyal, and

1160
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 1: I'd say, like would you. It's not a lack of loyalty,

1161
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: it's personal growth. And it's a very very hard decision,

1162
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: you know. Like we have one kid, as you and

1163
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: we both know like it's going to be really hard

1164
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: for him, really hard for him, and I'd love to

1165
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 1: have them, But I actually I completely understand and can't

1166
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:05,439
Speaker 1: can't feel anger towards him for trying something new, even

1167
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: if I think it might be a mistake long term.

1168
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: As you said, that's part of being an adult is you

1169
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 1: got to sometimes make those mistakes.

1170
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And for me just to kind of touch on

1171
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 2: what you said before, like I love the part of

1172
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 2: helping them and getting them to a certain spot or

1173
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 2: a certain level of success that I never got. I

1174
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 2: mean I never got close. You were a very good

1175
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 2: college basketball, fantastic college basketball. You got there, right, You've

1176
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 2: seen it, you've done it, You've put in the work.

1177
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 2: I didn't. I was very, very far from it. So

1178
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 2: it is a sense of accomplishment in myself and going, well,

1179
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 2: you couldn't do it, but you kind of figured out

1180
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 2: how it takes to get there and what it takes

1181
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 2: to get there, and yeah, just to touch on the

1182
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 2: guy that are guys that left like it is, it

1183
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 2: is like I said, I don't envy them having to

1184
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 2: make that decision at all in the moment. You just

1185
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 2: don't or I don't. I'm a little bit spiteful, but

1186
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,919
Speaker 2: I mean I texted him a little bit last night going, hey,

1187
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 2: I do right by you. If you need help, let

1188
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 2: me know, right like, because I don't want him or

1189
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 2: any of them to think that they're doing it alone.

1190
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 2: Because I've seen guys go in and they've made good decisions.

1191
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 2: I've seen guys go in and make bad decisions, and

1192
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 2: I don't want them to think that they were left

1193
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 2: on an island by themselves and having a ton of

1194
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 2: questions that they can't get answers to.

1195
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: You know. The whole experience is like super fascinating, right,

1196
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: and people ask all the time, well, what would you have?

1197
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: How much would you have? And this is the big

1198
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: thing that former of college path how much would you

1199
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 1: have gotten?

1200
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 2: Oh, Jerry Smith hates that question.

1201
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, he does hate that question. But I was at

1202
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 1: a tipping point at Oklahoma State my junior year. My

1203
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: sophomore year, I was newcomer of the Year in the

1204
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 1: Big Twelve. My junior year, I was averaging averaging a

1205
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 1: double double and we were playing Florida Atlantic. We were

1206
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: ranked in the top ten of the country. Playing Florida

1207
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,200
Speaker 1: Atlantic at home. We'd just beaten TCU with Lee Nylon

1208
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: and they were in the top twenty five. We had

1209
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 1: gone out to Hawaii beat Marquette and Mike Dean beat Hawaii,

1210
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: come back, played TCU, smoke TCU, and we're playing UCLA

1211
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: in Anaheim, which is five minutes from where I grew

1212
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 1: up where my mom still lives, against UCLA on Saturday.

1213
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: On Wednesday, we played Florida Atlantic and by the way,

1214
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 1: Floridatlantic now not Floridatlantic. Then they won six games that year.

1215
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 1: One of them was on the White Maple of Gallagher

1216
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 1: IB Arena and the late Brooks Thompson god rest his

1217
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 1: soul was a manager that year. Because he hurt his

1218
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 1: back in the NBA playing for the New York Knicks,

1219
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 1: drafted in the first round by the Atlanta Magic was

1220
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: playing for the Knicks, hurt his back. It ultimately ended

1221
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 1: his career and began his coaching career. He did one

1222
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,919
Speaker 1: skyting report that year. It was the Floridatlantic game, and

1223
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 1: this is something that I had a little PTSD about

1224
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: last year. One of the assistants had a similar tone

1225
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 1: with some of the skyting reports, and I just I immediately

1226
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: called him and said, don't ever do that again, like

1227
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 1: that's not how I and it was this. It was

1228
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 1: he said, like, this is the worst team to ever

1229
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: play in the White Maple if And we used to

1230
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: have like pregame goals coach Sutton, you'd walk in and

1231
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: I did this last year. I didn't do it this year.

1232
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 1: I just didn't. I didn't like how it landed. But

1233
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: it was, you know, like you got to hold them

1234
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 1: below seven sixty points, below a certain field goal percentage.

1235
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: We got to shoot above a certain field goal percentage.

1236
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: It was more process more than result things. I do

1237
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 1: understand it. But if you check all these boxes, okay,

1238
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 1: obviously we're gonna win, but also no actice tomorrow and

1239
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 1: if you don't six am at Gallagher taped that was

1240
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: and so his thing was they were ridiculous things. It's

1241
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: like below sixty points, below forty percent. It was like, dude,

1242
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 1: this is you feel like it's going to be hard

1243
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 1: or they must be terrible, and then he set backed

1244
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 1: it up with this is the worst team to ever

1245
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: play on the white Maple of Gallagher IB Arena. The

1246
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:27,879
Speaker 1: white maple is a big thing, just so people understand.

1247
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: It's the floor has never been replaced, which is super

1248
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 1: unique most floors, it's like after the fifth time that

1249
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:37,640
Speaker 1: it's it's cleared off and shine through. I don't know,

1250
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 1: it's because I think of the quality of the wood

1251
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: that they built in there, so it's it's withstood renovation.

1252
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 1: Wil Chamberlain played on that floor, so it's a big thing. Anyway,

1253
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 1: we go out there and at the time we only

1254
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 1: had four guards eligible. We had Glenn and Alexander the

1255
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:58,919
Speaker 1: all time leands gorred in the state of Texas. McDonald's

1256
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 1: all American transfer market saw like he was waiting the wings.

1257
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 1: And then we had we had like two football players

1258
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: who weren't yet back ready, and we just didn't have

1259
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 1: a ton of depth, and we had like walk ons,

1260
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 1: but like four scholarship guards, and we were a top

1261
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 1: ten team. But that's just because I played like thirty

1262
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,879
Speaker 1: minutes and Joe Atkins played thirty minutes and Adrian Peterson

1263
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: played thirty five minutes. Like I don't think Coach couldn't

1264
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: get anybody to come. We had guys visit, but nobody

1265
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: wanted to come because they knew they weren't going to play.

1266
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 1: So we just the hell with it. So they played

1267
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: five guard essentially five guards, and they ran flex. This

1268
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 1: is back in the forty five second shot clock era.

1269
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: They'd run flex for the first like thirty seven seconds,

1270
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 1: and then they'd throw it to whoever our five guy

1271
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 1: was guarding, and they go one four flat at the

1272
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 1: end of shot clock. And I think we were up

1273
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: like a point at half, and I remember we came

1274
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: in and we're like, Coach, we got play zone. Like this,

1275
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:54,599
Speaker 1: we got to play zone. And we at the time

1276
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: we had just started to kind of implement a little

1277
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: bit of zone, but nobody really knew or doing. But

1278
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: the idea was like, we just can't put our big

1279
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,639
Speaker 1: guy out there and then we can't double because they'll

1280
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 1: just they just make us pay. So we're up a

1281
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: point in the second half, and the ball start into

1282
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: me and they trap me and I rip through and

1283
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:18,919
Speaker 1: the ball get stolen and I get a cut underneath

1284
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 1: my eye and I when they lay the ball in,

1285
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 1: I turned to the ref and I say, that's a

1286
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: fing foul, because as you know, I have a strong

1287
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: relationship with the F word. I get a technical foul,

1288
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: so it goes from one to three to five, and

1289
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 1: coach takes me out of the game. So now we

1290
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 1: now are we down five with an eighty one game

1291
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 1: non conference home winning streak. But remember we only have

1292
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 1: four guards eligible, so now we got two guys that

1293
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: can't guard their guys. For I don't know how long

1294
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 1: he kept me out of the game. We lose the

1295
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: Floor Atlantic. I had eight points eighteen assists in the game,

1296
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: and we lose in crazy fashion. But I actually played

1297
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: really well. We go out to UCLA. I got two

1298
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: technical fouls there, neither of which I deserved. I mean it,

1299
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 1: like I again, I know what I got him like.

1300
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 1: One was a guy named Charlie Raine, who's an all

1301
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 1: time crook of an official. I don't know if he's

1302
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:15,799
Speaker 1: still alive, but he used to ref all the UCLA

1303
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 1: games and literally three minutes into the game. It's like

1304
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: six to zero fouls US against UCLA, and I was like,

1305
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:24,600
Speaker 1: come on, Charlotte, let's eaven it up. And then like,

1306
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 1: and you know, a college kid is not supposed to

1307
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: say that to a ref. But it wasn't like I

1308
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 1: cursed him or wasn't like I was confrontational. And then

1309
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: I got another one when Baron Davis and I got

1310
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 1: into it. It was after the half. I had gone

1311
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 1: into try and shoot a floater. It got sent back

1312
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: into Saturn and Baron had his only two points of

1313
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 1: the game and he was woofing bumped shoulders with me,

1314
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 1: and then I bumped shoulders back and he took a dive.

1315
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 1: It was after halftime, so they called a technical foul

1316
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 1: instead of an intentional foul. I was out of the game,

1317
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 1: so I'm like deep buried in the doghouse right and

1318
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: playing eight minutes a game for like an eight game stretch.

1319
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to leave. I had my all my we

1320
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: go to play Creighton and then UNLV and then it's

1321
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:10,799
Speaker 1: Christmas break and my bags were literally packed in stillwater.

1322
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 1: Like I was out and I was going to go

1323
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 1: play for either Utah and Rick mcgeris, who had recruited

1324
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 1: me originally, or my brother had just taken a job

1325
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 1: at San Diego State and they were the worst team.

1326
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 1: But I was like, ef it, I'll go because back then,

1327
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 1: if you transferred semester, you would have been eligible semester

1328
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:26,800
Speaker 1: your senior year to play those last twenty games. And

1329
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 1: I was willing to do it because I was like,

1330
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 1: this sucks. I hate it. I'm the doghouse. It's never

1331
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 1: gonna end. He's just going to bring in more players

1332
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 1: and whatever. The next year I came back, we went

1333
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 1: to the lead Day as a top ten all time assists.

1334
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: I don't hold the Big Twelve record, but that's because

1335
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:48,599
Speaker 1: I only played three years in the Big Twelve. Aaron

1336
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 1: Miles played four years in the Big Twelve. But in

1337
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 1: terms of per year, it's like it's not really close.

1338
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:55,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I hold these records. I'm I'm on the

1339
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 1: board of governors at Oklahoma State. Everything I've been able

1340
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 1: to accomplish, I know it's because played oklam State, right,

1341
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 1: because of my name, image and likeness from the Elite

1342
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:07,360
Speaker 1: eight run and the fact that I was at such

1343
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 1: a prominent school with such a respected coach, that I

1344
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 1: got opportunities I kicked ass and those opportunities, but I

1345
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:14,680
Speaker 1: got those opportunities. None of it would have happened if

1346
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: I left. Zero of those things would have happened if

1347
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 1: I left. I don't know if that's the case for

1348
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:26,640
Speaker 1: our guys. I don't, but I can tell you unequivocally

1349
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 1: that my life would be dramatically different and kind of

1350
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 1: like some of our guys. I had a girlfriend who

1351
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:38,639
Speaker 1: became my wife of twenty years. I have three beautiful kids,

1352
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 1: all because I stayed. All because I stayed. It doesn't

1353
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 1: happen if I leave. It doesn't mean that if I leave,

1354
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 1: my trajectory is bad. Right. I could have played for

1355
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 1: rickmn Jerison, become a coach. I could have played for

1356
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:55,919
Speaker 1: Steve Fisher, probably become a coach, lived in San Diego.

1357
01:13:56,120 --> 01:14:00,120
Speaker 1: Who knows what happens. But I didn't. I stayed, and

1358
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 1: this is my life, and so you know, there's those

1359
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: crossroad moments, and I do know that I do know

1360
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 1: that there is a reward to staying. There is something

1361
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:17,719
Speaker 1: about having a place, no matter how small, no matter

1362
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 1: how run down or whatever or whatever level, it doesn't matter,

1363
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 1: like that's my place. Tom Brennan was a longtime coach

1364
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 1: at Vermont, and I worked with him at ESPN, and

1365
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:30,479
Speaker 1: I always remember to asking him, like, you were eighteen

1366
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 1: years of Vermont, didn't you everything? Getting the hell on

1367
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: Vermont coaching? Like when they beat Syracuse in the tournament.

1368
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 1: He was retiring, but he could have gone and taken

1369
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:42,719
Speaker 1: a bigger job instead, he said, he said, my boy,

1370
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 1: there's fifty states in the Union and I own one

1371
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:50,679
Speaker 1: of them. There was a strong statement.

1372
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 3: To me.

1373
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:57,160
Speaker 1: I totally got it. And I don't know what the

1374
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: right thing for these kids is, but I do know

1375
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 1: that there's a reward in staying that's not financial, it's

1376
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 1: not tangible, a little bit of his in your soul,

1377
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 1: but it's a real thing for the next fifty years.

1378
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: And I just it's really hard for them to understand it,

1379
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:19,760
Speaker 1: no matter how much you tell them.

1380
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, because even even at green Bay, like Green Bay

1381
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:25,759
Speaker 2: is not obviously Oklahoma State in terms of fan base

1382
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 2: and and I don't think we have any board of

1383
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:31,639
Speaker 2: governors on our on our roster, but I do think

1384
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:36,639
Speaker 2: there is a strong community or a community that really

1385
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:40,640
Speaker 2: does care about basketball and cares about hard work. And

1386
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 2: I mean, well, Preston, I'll find out real soon five,

1387
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:48,760
Speaker 2: ten years down the road, people will still recognize them

1388
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 2: and they'll still want to talk to him, maybe about

1389
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 2: one of his games or maybe about his dad making

1390
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 2: a putt. But they're still going to recognize him and

1391
01:15:56,280 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 2: want to talk Green Bay basketball or his state championship.

1392
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:07,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, you don't know leaving I think

1393
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 2: there's more of a of an understanding if you stay

1394
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 2: kind of what's there and curiosity killed the cat.

1395
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 1: Uh last thing, to somebody who is a college basketball fan,

1396
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:25,760
Speaker 1: this is the absolute greatest time of the year, right,

1397
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: how would you what is the likelihood of upsets in

1398
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:39,480
Speaker 1: the first weekend of the tournament? Considering the incredible financial

1399
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:43,599
Speaker 1: disparity between the haves and the have nots.

1400
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:57,719
Speaker 2: Money has changed the game quite a bit. Whether teams

1401
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 2: had near five hundred ACC seasons or not, they still

1402
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:08,920
Speaker 2: have millions of dollars in the starting lineup, they have

1403
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 2: millions of dollars collectively on the bench, and when that

1404
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 2: first weekend it's a little bit different than ACC play.

1405
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 2: I do think the upsets are more unlikely than they

1406
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 2: used to be because even these stories of mid major

1407
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:38,840
Speaker 2: low majors having good years, a lot of those teams

1408
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:42,599
Speaker 2: aren't built off of continuity. They're still bought and they're

1409
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:46,599
Speaker 2: still pieced together the same way the million dollar rosters are.

1410
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:50,720
Speaker 2: So where we used to have the four year starters,

1411
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:53,839
Speaker 2: three of the guys have played together all four years,

1412
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 2: or situations like that, we don't really have that anymore,

1413
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 2: so that aspect has changed. I really don't think there'll

1414
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 2: be a lot of upsets now. If I pick my bracket,

1415
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 2: it goes the opposite of the way I pick my bracket.

1416
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 2: So I'll let you know which ones are going to

1417
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 2: be upsets here when the bracket comes out. But yeah,

1418
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,880
Speaker 2: I just think the money's too powerful nowadays.

1419
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:23,800
Speaker 1: Well I think what it's done is it's always done

1420
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 1: it on some level, but now excessively. So it's not

1421
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 1: just that you don't have guys playing three or four

1422
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:32,280
Speaker 1: years together. It's a guy is the best player on

1423
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 1: a mid major and now he's on the bench or

1424
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:38,519
Speaker 1: sometimes on the court for a high major. So what

1425
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:40,639
Speaker 1: you used to get is used to get mid majors.

1426
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 1: Not only they played together, but they were twenty two

1427
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 1: to twenty three years old against high majors, some of

1428
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 1: whom are eighteen nineteen years old. Now the high majors

1429
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,479
Speaker 1: they'll still have the eighteen nineteen years, but they'll have

1430
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 1: the twenty three year old that played at that mid

1431
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:55,400
Speaker 1: major that has has kind of changed their body and

1432
01:18:55,520 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 1: changed their game. Last year, I picked every game and

1433
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 1: the first two rounds correctly, and I only did so

1434
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:10,200
Speaker 1: based upon one factor. Who had more money, Swear to

1435
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: God and I and people's like, you pick mcneisse, Yes,

1436
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 1: because they had more money than who they played against.

1437
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:17,840
Speaker 1: Because mcneise had a lot of money. That was kind

1438
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 1: of the secret to it. Now, you do have some

1439
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: mid majors that have a lot of money, but the

1440
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 1: high majors have a lot more money. This okay, So

1441
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 1: what about the Miami of Ohio? What about the the

1442
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 1: the thirty to zero regular season but against a super

1443
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 1: soft schedule, right, I mean, let's just be honest, okay,

1444
01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:44,800
Speaker 1: And I want to make sure this is really really clear.

1445
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 1: Their schedule would be a dream for us. We can

1446
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:52,120
Speaker 1: only dream of that schedule, like I want that schedule

1447
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:56,840
Speaker 1: because no one they played in the non conference is

1448
01:19:56,880 --> 01:20:00,840
Speaker 1: above their level financially, no one. It's it's a fair fight.

1449
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: I'll never forget We're playing Ohio State. My first year,

1450
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,679
Speaker 1: Antheony Roy has thirty. It's an eight point game, and

1451
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 1: I got talked into changing a ball screen coverage and

1452
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 1: it was a twenty point game like that. And I

1453
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:16,160
Speaker 1: go into the locker room and I'm so upset at

1454
01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:18,320
Speaker 1: myself because I knew it. I knew it was the

1455
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:20,840
Speaker 1: wrong answer, and I walked into it and I did

1456
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:22,640
Speaker 1: it anyway. I don't know if it was out an

1457
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 1: ego or just to try it, and it was a mistake.

1458
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 1: And I'm just muttering and kicking myself and saying, you're

1459
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: an idiot. Stop doing it. You prepared for it, you

1460
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 1: knew it was the wrong decision, right, And I'm walking

1461
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 1: around and I hadn't even talked to the team yet.

1462
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:41,000
Speaker 1: And Eric Sanders, who's still on our staff, puts his

1463
01:20:41,040 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 1: big teddy bear arm around me and goes coach. You know,

1464
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:47,679
Speaker 1: they got three million dollars and we got ninety five thousand.

1465
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 1: We had no chance. Don't kid yourself, We had no chance.

1466
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:58,599
Speaker 1: And it was such a deflating feeling because I knew

1467
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 1: he was right right, like you can you can, you

1468
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 1: can exit on them to death, but they're gonna Jimmy

1469
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:09,000
Speaker 1: and Joe you to death as well. But the point

1470
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 1: is they haven't made had like the Dreams schedule their

1471
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,800
Speaker 1: administration or whatever. Financially, they're able to buy games. Their

1472
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 1: schedule was an easier schedule or a more more favorable

1473
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,639
Speaker 1: schedule than many high majors have because they didn't play

1474
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:25,559
Speaker 1: anybody who's anybody who would be ranked better than them,

1475
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:28,759
Speaker 1: and then in their conference, and this is no control

1476
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:30,679
Speaker 1: of theirs. They didn't have to go to Akron, right,

1477
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 1: who's probably at a higher financial level than they are.

1478
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 1: They played Acron at home. How do you view that

1479
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:40,599
Speaker 1: in terms of do they belong in the NCAA tournament

1480
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 1: going undefeated in the regular season.

1481
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 2: Oh, I think they're one hundred percent in. I am

1482
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 2: very fascinated to watch them play. I do think they

1483
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 2: play a fun style for their personnel, and I do

1484
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:55,280
Speaker 2: think that's one thing that I mean it is we

1485
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:57,719
Speaker 2: are still playing a sport. We are still playing basketball

1486
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:02,439
Speaker 2: like styles of plays, style, yep, yep. So I do

1487
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:06,439
Speaker 2: think that if Miami, Miami, Ohio, or or whoever gets

1488
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 2: in in the low major, mid major realm, if they

1489
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:13,400
Speaker 2: have a tie game with four minutes to go, they're

1490
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 2: used to winning those games, and maybe whoever they're playing,

1491
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:20,640
Speaker 2: whatever high major it is maybe hasn't, so I do

1492
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 2: think there's that's real.

1493
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 3: Okay.

1494
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:29,600
Speaker 1: I keep saying last thing, but this is this is

1495
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 1: last thing.

1496
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:33,719
Speaker 2: Okay. I've been in meetings with you before.

1497
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 1: I know in in ten years, kill Gans is doing.

1498
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 2: What uh hopefully still coaching. I mean, I would love

1499
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:48,680
Speaker 2: to keep doing this for a long time, especially with

1500
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 2: seeing the the work ethic and competitiveness that Andy and

1501
01:22:56,120 --> 01:23:01,559
Speaker 2: Carrie have into their older ages. I love what I do.

1502
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 2: I love being here. I don't know where it takes me.

1503
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm a head coach of a

1504
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 2: Division three A Division two A junior college, I don't know.

1505
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 2: But I really hope that I'm still coaching. I hope

1506
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 2: that it puts my family in a good situation financially,

1507
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 2: and we're just enjoying what we do.

1508
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:27,400
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, not just for joining me, but you

1509
01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 1: were the easiest hire, right like it was. It was

1510
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 1: so easy and so obvious, but it still took a

1511
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:44,240
Speaker 1: leap of faith when we hadn't worked together, didn't know

1512
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:50,360
Speaker 1: each other well. And you have, as you said, an

1513
01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 1: amazing work ethic like the three of you guys, and

1514
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 1: the amount of work you put in is incredible. And

1515
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:02,200
Speaker 1: it's like I always wanted our guys just so people

1516
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:05,200
Speaker 1: understand they know just about everything the other team's going

1517
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:08,880
Speaker 1: to do. It's not for they're not being coached, it's

1518
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:12,160
Speaker 1: the it's it's our I think the number one job. Yes,

1519
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:13,679
Speaker 1: you have to build a building blocks of an offense

1520
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:15,160
Speaker 1: to building blocks of defense. You have to give them

1521
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 1: all the fundamentals. But when they walk out there, they

1522
01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 1: know what the questions are going to be on the test.

1523
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:24,080
Speaker 1: It's up to them to answer them. And I credit

1524
01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 1: you because you do what I've always wanted a coach

1525
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:32,400
Speaker 1: to do, which is give our players an edge because

1526
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:36,040
Speaker 1: we're more prepared than the other team. And I take

1527
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:38,880
Speaker 1: an incredible amount of pride in it. But I will

1528
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:42,400
Speaker 1: tell the world that it's because of your work ethic

1529
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:46,280
Speaker 1: that does that. And you only work that hard if

1530
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 1: one that's who you are, and two if you're all

1531
01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 1: in on what you're doing and who you're doing it for.

1532
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:54,920
Speaker 1: So I can't tell you how much I appreciate how

1533
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:57,400
Speaker 1: much you've worked so far and how much I know

1534
01:24:57,479 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 1: you'll work going forward in the future, be it for me,

1535
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 1: be it for yourself, or whatever. It nowly doesn't go

1536
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 1: unnoticed it means an amazing amount to me as somebody

1537
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:11,320
Speaker 1: who I believe we've become lifelong friends in this period

1538
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:11,639
Speaker 1: of time.

1539
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:13,040
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1540
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 1: It's the Dog Gottlieb Show, and let's welcome in a

1541
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: dear friend. And to those of you who are not

1542
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:29,840
Speaker 1: as hardcore a college basketball guy or girl as I am,

1543
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:33,760
Speaker 1: I understand, I'm going to direct you to a podcast

1544
01:25:34,280 --> 01:25:38,720
Speaker 1: network which should be your source for everything you want

1545
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:42,880
Speaker 1: to know about college basketball. I mean that you're like waits, no, no, no, Look.

1546
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 1: Field of sixty eight is the absolute best, the best

1547
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:51,599
Speaker 1: at covering this sport. And one of their co founders,

1548
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 1: Rob Dosterer, joins us now on The Doug Gottlieb Show,

1549
01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:58,920
Speaker 1: and Rob, I mean why I said what you guys

1550
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:02,320
Speaker 1: do an amazing job players right after games hopping on

1551
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:05,719
Speaker 1: the stream where people can find it on social media,

1552
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:07,960
Speaker 1: people can download it. People just make it part of

1553
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:10,880
Speaker 1: your queue. You have coaches right off the court. You

1554
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:13,800
Speaker 1: have coaches or former coaches as part of your as

1555
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 1: your analysts. Before we get to college basketball at large

1556
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 1: and the NCAA Tournament, which is going to begin in

1557
01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:28,680
Speaker 1: full this Tuesday with the first four from the infancy

1558
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 1: of Field of sixty eight to now, what has the

1559
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:36,439
Speaker 1: growth been like as somebody who started it, you and

1560
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 1: Jeff Goodman years ago.

1561
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:42,160
Speaker 4: It's been wild to see it kind of take off

1562
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:44,280
Speaker 4: the way that it has. You know, this didn't start

1563
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:46,559
Speaker 4: out of like this. This wasn't some grand plan, Doug.

1564
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:49,240
Speaker 4: It wasn't like we sat here like, you know what

1565
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:51,679
Speaker 4: we should do. We should start our own podcast network

1566
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:54,720
Speaker 4: and see if we can lean into YouTube and see

1567
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:56,240
Speaker 4: if we can find a way to make this work.

1568
01:26:56,360 --> 01:27:00,160
Speaker 4: I got fired, That's what That's how this started. I

1569
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 4: got laid off by NBC in the middle of COVID

1570
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:04,760
Speaker 4: and I didn't really have anything to do. And me

1571
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 4: and Goodman had talked for a while about potentially finding

1572
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:12,639
Speaker 4: a way to break off from some major media networks

1573
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 4: that only view college basketball as a one month sport.

1574
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 4: But the reason why they started, the reason why we

1575
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 4: feel A sixty eight became a thing, was because I

1576
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,600
Speaker 4: had nothing to do. I got laid off, and we

1577
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:28,040
Speaker 4: decided to kind of lean into this. And the original

1578
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 4: idea was create a network of shows that had nothing

1579
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:35,960
Speaker 4: but former players and former coaches doing pods on the

1580
01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:37,960
Speaker 4: team that they played for, the team that they coached for,

1581
01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 4: and just tell them back in the day stories and

1582
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:42,960
Speaker 4: that worked for a little bit when everyone was still

1583
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:44,719
Speaker 4: locked down and stuck in the house and they couldn't

1584
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 4: go out anywhere. But as soon as things opened back

1585
01:27:47,080 --> 01:27:51,320
Speaker 4: up and these guys were allowed to go out and

1586
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:54,479
Speaker 4: do things outside of their house, skin, the idea of

1587
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:57,760
Speaker 4: having to do a weekly pod on their team was

1588
01:27:57,800 --> 01:27:58,960
Speaker 4: just like, yeah, you know what, I'm going to go

1589
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 4: spend time outside of being trapped in my house.

1590
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 3: So we started.

1591
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:06,120
Speaker 4: After Dark was the next concept where we kind of

1592
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:10,599
Speaker 4: let's do I remember growing up it was Baseball Tonight,

1593
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,759
Speaker 4: right during the summer. Every night you get home eleven o'clock,

1594
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:15,439
Speaker 4: you put on Baseball Tonight and you figure out what

1595
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:17,080
Speaker 4: happened in baseball. And I was just like, but that

1596
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:19,559
Speaker 4: doesn't exist really in the form that we want it

1597
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:20,680
Speaker 4: in college basketball.

1598
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 3: So let's make it.

1599
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 4: Let's create, and let's find a way to make that

1600
01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:26,880
Speaker 4: be a thing. And we started it the first year.

1601
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:30,320
Speaker 4: Within three months we were on serious XM and it

1602
01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:32,760
Speaker 4: just kind of took off from there. So it's it's

1603
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:34,639
Speaker 4: been a wild ride to see where where this thing

1604
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:36,680
Speaker 4: is going. And you know, I'd like to say that

1605
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 4: this was all planned out and we thought like this

1606
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:41,760
Speaker 4: was a well thought out idea. And it's mostly just

1607
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 4: like we're throwing stuff against the wall and hoping that

1608
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 4: it hoping that it works, and sometimes it does and

1609
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:47,920
Speaker 4: sometimes it doesn't. But at the end of the day,

1610
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:49,840
Speaker 4: it's like we're you know, how this is man, We're

1611
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:51,560
Speaker 4: talking about sports. It's supposed to be fun, so we

1612
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:53,960
Speaker 4: try to make it, try to make it enjoyable.

1613
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:56,960
Speaker 1: Albert Einstein One said in the middle of the Difficulty

1614
01:28:57,040 --> 01:29:01,640
Speaker 1: lies Opportunity, right, and COVID, you guys both get and

1615
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 1: let go. And I would agree with you. I always,

1616
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:08,839
Speaker 1: I actually I completely agree with the baseball analogy, Baseball

1617
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 1: Night analogy. What's interesting is when I worked at ESPN,

1618
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 1: we would have college basketball tonight. But I honestly believed,

1619
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 1: why don't we do this every night of the year, Right,

1620
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,879
Speaker 1: There's always something to talk about, There's always something interesting,

1621
01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 1: and there is a hunger and a desire for it,

1622
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:31,320
Speaker 1: however small, and to build it. And you guys have

1623
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 1: have taken it. And I love this. You cover the

1624
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:37,479
Speaker 1: mid majors, you cover the low majors, you cover all

1625
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:40,600
Speaker 1: the stuff, and it's it's pretty pretty awesome. If I

1626
01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 1: were to ask you twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six. Right,

1627
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:52,040
Speaker 1: it's Sunday Night Selection Sunday, and there's a lot of people,

1628
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:55,760
Speaker 1: a high percentage of people, if we're honest, parachute into

1629
01:29:55,840 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 1: college basketball now and they have a very passing knowledge

1630
01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 1: of it. And you were to say this is the

1631
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:06,680
Speaker 1: biggest story of this season, it's what.

1632
01:30:08,360 --> 01:30:12,760
Speaker 4: I think, it's probably Duke and John Shire. You know,

1633
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 4: Cam Booser has been, without a doubt, the best player

1634
01:30:16,479 --> 01:30:20,080
Speaker 4: in college basketball this season. John Shire is a guy

1635
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:22,560
Speaker 4: that is in his fourth season at Duke, replacing a

1636
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:26,160
Speaker 4: legend in Coach K and seeing him come in to

1637
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:28,559
Speaker 4: do the job that he's done as quickly as he's

1638
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 4: done it, right, I think that that's kind of gone

1639
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:36,879
Speaker 4: overlooked in the transition here. Right, We've seen other coaches

1640
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 4: come in and replace all of famers and not be

1641
01:30:41,479 --> 01:30:42,800
Speaker 4: able to keep it at the same level.

1642
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:44,439
Speaker 3: And Duke's been at the same level.

1643
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:46,160
Speaker 4: You can make an argument that right now they are

1644
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:48,280
Speaker 4: better than what they were at the end of Coach

1645
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:52,080
Speaker 4: K's era. They're winning regular season titles without a doubt.

1646
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:54,040
Speaker 4: To me, last year they were clearly the best team

1647
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:56,439
Speaker 4: in the sport to me when they were healthy this year,

1648
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 4: they were clearly the best team in the sport. And

1649
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 4: for Shire to be able to do that in an

1650
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 4: era where I think college basketball is the best it's

1651
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 4: been probably since what like the mid nineties, before we

1652
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:11,200
Speaker 4: really had the guys leaving early for the NBA, before

1653
01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:13,840
Speaker 4: we really leaned into the high school players going pro

1654
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:17,559
Speaker 4: and one and done guys. To see him to be

1655
01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 4: able to do that with teams built around freshman like

1656
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:24,000
Speaker 4: albeit Cooper Flag is amazing and Kid Boozer is amazing,

1657
01:31:24,040 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 4: but he's still building it around freshmen. I think that

1658
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:30,360
Speaker 4: it doesn't get enough coverage because they haven't gone to

1659
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 4: the national championship game in one and I just I

1660
01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:35,400
Speaker 4: feel like we can get ahead of that. Doug, we

1661
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:36,880
Speaker 4: know what we're looking at here. We can get ahead

1662
01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:38,479
Speaker 4: of that. We can say johns Shire, what he's doing

1663
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 4: is incredible. They've been the best team in the sports

1664
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:43,519
Speaker 4: the last two years. They've had the best player in

1665
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 4: the sport the last two years. And John Sire looks

1666
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:48,200
Speaker 4: like he's eleven, but he coaches like a guy who's

1667
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:49,439
Speaker 4: been doing this for forty years.

1668
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:51,800
Speaker 1: It is fascinating. There's a bunch of things that I

1669
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:54,559
Speaker 1: want to dive into here about that. The first thing is,

1670
01:31:56,720 --> 01:32:00,760
Speaker 1: let's not kid ourselves. Okay, Mike Krzyzewski, I don't know,

1671
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 1: you're younger than me, so I don't know if you remember.

1672
01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:07,920
Speaker 1: But previous to them winning a national championship, and they

1673
01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:11,560
Speaker 1: went back to back national championships with his first two titles.

1674
01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 1: But previous to that, Duke was the story was they'd

1675
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:18,960
Speaker 1: get to the Final four and then they would get

1676
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 1: blown out. Everyone remembers coach k winning titles, coach of

1677
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:29,320
Speaker 1: Team USA. He's probably the most iconic of all of

1678
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,120
Speaker 1: those iconic names from the nineties, as you pointed out,

1679
01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:35,600
Speaker 1: when college basketball was at its absolute peak of popularity

1680
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:40,120
Speaker 1: and probably of talent. But as a fifty year old now,

1681
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:42,599
Speaker 1: damn fifty years old, As a fifty year old now

1682
01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:46,200
Speaker 1: who grew up watching this thing, I remember when Duke,

1683
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:48,639
Speaker 1: which was my favorite program, right because they had guys

1684
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:53,599
Speaker 1: that looked like me at point guard, specifically Bobby Hurley,

1685
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:58,040
Speaker 1: they got blown out by UNLV. But that wasn't necessarily

1686
01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 1: a surprise because that when Tommy Amerker and Johnny Dawkins

1687
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:04,439
Speaker 1: went to the Font four, they got blown out like

1688
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:06,760
Speaker 1: they would. This was there was that ceiling they were

1689
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:09,920
Speaker 1: bumping up against and they couldn't break through, And finally

1690
01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:16,479
Speaker 1: they did break through. But my question is, if we're honest.

1691
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:20,040
Speaker 1: Last year and John is a friend, we've asked him

1692
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 1: to play next year. I don't know why I decided

1693
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:24,680
Speaker 1: to do that, but I did say, like, hey, we

1694
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,160
Speaker 1: played Kansas this year, like you guys want to beat

1695
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:30,040
Speaker 1: our brains in for one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars,

1696
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:34,760
Speaker 1: tell us when we'll show up, right. But as a

1697
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:38,679
Speaker 1: and I think I told people his first year, he's

1698
01:33:38,720 --> 01:33:42,360
Speaker 1: an amazing coach. He sees it, he gets it. He

1699
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:47,240
Speaker 1: makes the adjustments that give them opportunities. I thought he

1700
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:51,280
Speaker 1: outthought himself last year when they lost and they had

1701
01:33:51,280 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 1: the big lead to Houston because he went to Cooper

1702
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:58,679
Speaker 1: Flag almost exclusively down the stretch. One kN K Nipple

1703
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:03,040
Speaker 1: was the one that was the better option. I believed

1704
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:07,200
Speaker 1: in that game. Now again, now when you're coaching and

1705
01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 1: you can, you can you're part of it. You know that,

1706
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:12,400
Speaker 1: Like dude, at the end of the day, do I

1707
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:14,679
Speaker 1: go back to my best player? Who's my best player?

1708
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:16,559
Speaker 1: Like Cooper Flag was the best player for a reason.

1709
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:19,559
Speaker 1: Now we know Conkinipple also not a bad number two.

1710
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:24,920
Speaker 1: I guess my question is can we be fans of

1711
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:27,479
Speaker 1: I know the answer in my mind. Can we be

1712
01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:30,439
Speaker 1: fans of John Shire? Say he's done an amazing job,

1713
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:34,760
Speaker 1: but in opportunities in the past, he may have to

1714
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:37,559
Speaker 1: adjust or has made mistakes. Like we make mistakes, we

1715
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:40,320
Speaker 1: don't always make the perfect call. Might have made a

1716
01:34:40,360 --> 01:34:43,559
Speaker 1: mistake against Houston going to Cooper down the stretch.

1717
01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:48,920
Speaker 4: Well, I you know, I think that he's We've seen

1718
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:51,240
Speaker 4: some of that this year as well. Right, Like I

1719
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:53,719
Speaker 4: think back to the Texas Tech game, and what happened

1720
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:55,600
Speaker 4: at the end of that game was they tried to

1721
01:34:55,600 --> 01:34:57,080
Speaker 4: switch a little bit. They tried to get a little

1722
01:34:57,080 --> 01:34:58,439
Speaker 4: bit too cute. They had to deal with trying to

1723
01:34:58,439 --> 01:35:01,160
Speaker 4: stop Christian Anderson. He was able to them up and

1724
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:04,320
Speaker 4: I think what you saw after that was him making

1725
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:06,959
Speaker 4: an adjustment. Right they're playing a little bit differently defensively.

1726
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:10,960
Speaker 4: I think where they kind of made their leap was, well,

1727
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:13,559
Speaker 4: we got this guy pat and Goangbo who's six eleven

1728
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 4: and two hundred and sixty pounds in a monster and

1729
01:35:15,240 --> 01:35:17,519
Speaker 4: let's lean into the idea that no one's going to

1730
01:35:17,560 --> 01:35:19,680
Speaker 4: score on him in the paint and They went from

1731
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:22,000
Speaker 4: being a team where we had legitimate questions about them

1732
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:26,120
Speaker 4: defensively in December and even like I go back to

1733
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:28,479
Speaker 4: the first game against Florida State that they played in

1734
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:32,040
Speaker 4: the ACC regular season, and you look at where they

1735
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:34,640
Speaker 4: are now, where they're the best defensive a team on Kempom,

1736
01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:38,240
Speaker 4: And you can see the adjustments that he's making, right,

1737
01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:40,160
Speaker 4: you can see him kind of figuring that stuff out

1738
01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:43,200
Speaker 4: in real time. And you know, at the end of

1739
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:45,479
Speaker 4: the day, he is, what is he thirty nine forty

1740
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:47,880
Speaker 4: years old? You know, he's he's still a baby in

1741
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 4: this business. So he's got plenty of time to figure

1742
01:35:50,320 --> 01:35:53,040
Speaker 4: it out. And when it comes to like winning, right,

1743
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:55,000
Speaker 4: and you mentioned this about coach k and this is

1744
01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:58,000
Speaker 4: the thing that kind of drives me crazy about college

1745
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:00,800
Speaker 4: basketball a little bit, is that we lean too much

1746
01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:03,320
Speaker 4: into the narratives that come as a result of a

1747
01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:06,479
Speaker 4: one undone tournament. Right, you're always the best to never

1748
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:08,880
Speaker 4: do it until you do. I remember people saying Bill

1749
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:11,520
Speaker 4: self wasn't going to be able to win a championship

1750
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 4: because he went to kans in his first two years

1751
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:16,600
Speaker 4: and got knocked off early in the NCAA tournament. Right,

1752
01:36:16,600 --> 01:36:18,960
Speaker 4: there were people that said Dan Hurley couldn't win big

1753
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:20,760
Speaker 4: games because it took him a while to figure out

1754
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:22,600
Speaker 4: how to be able to win in March. And it's like,

1755
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:28,280
Speaker 4: at some point we're gonna stop doing that as a

1756
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:30,880
Speaker 4: society that covers the sport of college basketball.

1757
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,719
Speaker 3: But you would hope at least.

1758
01:36:33,720 --> 01:36:35,920
Speaker 4: But I said this the other day, I don't think

1759
01:36:35,960 --> 01:36:37,760
Speaker 4: the question is whether or not John Shire wins a

1760
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:39,000
Speaker 4: national championship, Doug.

1761
01:36:39,200 --> 01:36:40,879
Speaker 3: I think the question is will.

1762
01:36:40,640 --> 01:36:43,680
Speaker 4: He win a title before he goes and gets an

1763
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:45,800
Speaker 4: NBA job at some point, because when you watch him

1764
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:47,160
Speaker 4: and you watch some of the stuff that he does,

1765
01:36:47,240 --> 01:36:49,880
Speaker 4: like he thinks the game, and I think he understands

1766
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:53,120
Speaker 4: the game at a level that will intrigue some NBA teams.

1767
01:36:53,160 --> 01:36:55,559
Speaker 4: So is that something that he wants to do and

1768
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:57,240
Speaker 4: will he be able to win a title before he

1769
01:36:57,360 --> 01:36:59,439
Speaker 4: leaves or is he going to stay at Duke and

1770
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 4: win two, three, four, Because I think that's what's kind

1771
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:04,599
Speaker 4: of inevitably here, Like you got a guy that understands

1772
01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:07,559
Speaker 4: how to recruit, that understands the program that he's recruiting too,

1773
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:10,160
Speaker 4: that is able to connect with kids at a level,

1774
01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:13,400
Speaker 4: and frankly is just understands how to be able to

1775
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:17,200
Speaker 4: navigate the space that we are in college basketball and

1776
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:18,800
Speaker 4: how to be able to get the coverage that you

1777
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:20,360
Speaker 4: want to be able to get. He's just I think

1778
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:23,400
Speaker 4: he's fantastic of what he does. As the long winded

1779
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:25,240
Speaker 4: way of saying it, I agree.

1780
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:31,479
Speaker 1: He also communicates in a way which is confrontational but

1781
01:37:31,600 --> 01:37:34,559
Speaker 1: non confrontational. Right, There's like there's an art to it.

1782
01:37:35,200 --> 01:37:42,479
Speaker 1: And the raving lunatic college basketball coach doesn't work in

1783
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 1: the NBA. It doesn't, and it's really really interesting. I

1784
01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:51,839
Speaker 1: don't think by the way, Danny Hurley is a raging lunatic,

1785
01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:54,639
Speaker 1: I don't. I think a lot of that is the

1786
01:37:54,640 --> 01:38:00,080
Speaker 1: theatrics that's part of kind of the show. And I

1787
01:38:00,080 --> 01:38:03,479
Speaker 1: also know that during games he's actually not jumping on

1788
01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:05,840
Speaker 1: his players for the most parts he makes he puts

1789
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:09,400
Speaker 1: all his energy towards the officials. Right, That's what you know,

1790
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:12,280
Speaker 1: and I think people miss that they don't understand it.

1791
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 4: He's a cheerleader during games with his with his players. Yes,

1792
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:20,320
Speaker 4: like he's the biggest hype man now and practices different story.

1793
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:21,160
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1794
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:24,400
Speaker 4: I don't know if I'm just I'm just thinking, imagine

1795
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:26,599
Speaker 4: if he had taken the Lakers job and he's coaching

1796
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:29,839
Speaker 4: Lebron James and Luka Doncic and a Dan Hurley practiced

1797
01:38:29,880 --> 01:38:32,040
Speaker 4: with those guys like, I don't know how that would

1798
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:34,479
Speaker 4: have necessarily worked, but the game stuff would have been fine.

1799
01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:37,360
Speaker 1: He would have been There's another there's another one too

1800
01:38:37,400 --> 01:38:42,040
Speaker 1: that has that same non confrontational approach in Todd Golden,

1801
01:38:42,080 --> 01:38:42,599
Speaker 1: who won the.

1802
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:43,479
Speaker 3: Time last year.

1803
01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:48,400
Speaker 1: Right, And it's very very interesting on this sort of

1804
01:38:48,439 --> 01:38:51,360
Speaker 1: new wave of and he's also a very data driven

1805
01:38:51,560 --> 01:38:55,160
Speaker 1: guy and a data driven system and it's all part

1806
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:57,080
Speaker 1: of that kind of Randy Bennett family tree which has

1807
01:38:57,200 --> 01:39:00,200
Speaker 1: kind of taken over the sport a little bit. Many

1808
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:02,639
Speaker 1: been stead coach at Saint Mary's. They've been He took

1809
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:04,720
Speaker 1: over a program a year before he got there, won

1810
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:08,599
Speaker 1: two games and now they're uh, they've been a co

1811
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:11,479
Speaker 1: kind of dominant program in the WCC with Gonzaga, and

1812
01:39:11,479 --> 01:39:11,920
Speaker 1: they won the.

1813
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:15,280
Speaker 4: Last four regular season championships Gonzaga. We all think about

1814
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:18,280
Speaker 4: Gonzaga as the dominant team the WCC. Saint Mary's is

1815
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:19,840
Speaker 4: when the last four to of them they shared with

1816
01:39:19,880 --> 01:39:22,759
Speaker 4: gonzagas with them they won outright, It's crazy.

1817
01:39:22,840 --> 01:39:27,000
Speaker 1: It's it's absolutely it does work. And and he also

1818
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:29,559
Speaker 1: started with a bunch of Australians and guys that people

1819
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:32,800
Speaker 1: missed on, right, and it's it's again a fastating look.

1820
01:39:34,400 --> 01:39:38,759
Speaker 1: If you were if without looking at the bracket, Okay,

1821
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:42,840
Speaker 1: when if you wake up this morning and you say,

1822
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:49,080
Speaker 1: here's the here's a couple of teams that they're going

1823
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:51,200
Speaker 1: to be in Indie. Right, they're just going to be

1824
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:53,439
Speaker 1: in India because they're just a little bit better.

1825
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:57,760
Speaker 4: Would those teams be uh, Florida for one, I think

1826
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:01,280
Speaker 4: Florida's figured it out. I think they've turned owner, They've

1827
01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:05,640
Speaker 4: kind of they've been able to identify. To me, I

1828
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:09,360
Speaker 4: think there's been a switch in what the best college

1829
01:40:09,400 --> 01:40:12,280
Speaker 4: basketball teams are trying to do right from we're gonna

1830
01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:15,920
Speaker 4: try to get the most quality shots to we're going

1831
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:19,360
Speaker 4: to try to get the highest quantity of shots possible.

1832
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:21,400
Speaker 4: We're gonna win the turnover battle, and we're gonna win

1833
01:40:21,400 --> 01:40:23,599
Speaker 4: the rebounding battle, and we're gonna lean all the way

1834
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:26,880
Speaker 4: into that. And I think that Florida has kind of

1835
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:29,640
Speaker 4: been at the forefront of that movement. And some of

1836
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 4: it was I think a result of having a roster

1837
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:36,559
Speaker 4: where you bring back Tommy Hawk, and you bring back

1838
01:40:36,600 --> 01:40:38,680
Speaker 4: Alex Condon, and you bring back Ruben Chinielou and you

1839
01:40:38,720 --> 01:40:40,640
Speaker 4: bring back michah handlocked and all of a sudden, you

1840
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:42,479
Speaker 4: got this massive front line. It's like, well, we can't

1841
01:40:42,479 --> 01:40:45,560
Speaker 4: really do like the pace and space and the analytics,

1842
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:46,960
Speaker 4: and we're going to try to get as many threes

1843
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:49,679
Speaker 4: as we possibly can because we got to play Tommy

1844
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:51,240
Speaker 4: Hawk at the three if we're gonna have our five

1845
01:40:51,280 --> 01:40:53,160
Speaker 4: best players on the floor. And I think some of

1846
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:56,439
Speaker 4: it is just we're I think we're seeing that a

1847
01:40:56,479 --> 01:40:58,200
Speaker 4: little bit. There's there's been more of a push, like

1848
01:40:58,280 --> 01:41:00,759
Speaker 4: let's get offensive rebounds. In the NBA, we got Jokicic

1849
01:41:01,000 --> 01:41:05,200
Speaker 4: and Joannis and you know, the the era where everyone's

1850
01:41:05,200 --> 01:41:06,880
Speaker 4: trying to be able to match up with Steph Curry

1851
01:41:06,880 --> 01:41:08,880
Speaker 4: and the Warriors is kind of gone by the wayside.

1852
01:41:08,920 --> 01:41:11,080
Speaker 4: So I think there's a little bit of that involved too.

1853
01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:14,280
Speaker 4: But the Boogy Flann has been a difference maker for them,

1854
01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:16,800
Speaker 4: and Urban Klatchar coming off the bench and being a

1855
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:19,600
Speaker 4: shooter has allowed them to be able to space the

1856
01:41:19,640 --> 01:41:20,439
Speaker 4: floor a little bit more.

1857
01:41:20,439 --> 01:41:20,519
Speaker 2: So.

1858
01:41:20,520 --> 01:41:23,240
Speaker 4: I think Florida has really figured things out here. Michigan

1859
01:41:23,320 --> 01:41:28,120
Speaker 4: obviously they are. What they can do defensively is just ridiculous.

1860
01:41:28,120 --> 01:41:30,760
Speaker 3: Man. I just I'm blown away by them.

1861
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:33,400
Speaker 4: I did not know how it was gonna work, you know,

1862
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:36,519
Speaker 4: in the offseason, I remember sitting with Mike Boyd and

1863
01:41:36,560 --> 01:41:38,679
Speaker 4: at peach him and talk with him about this team,

1864
01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:40,880
Speaker 4: and he's like, yeah, man, we got Jacks Lindenberg and

1865
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:42,800
Speaker 4: Morris Johnson at Daimar. We're gonna play the three of

1866
01:41:42,840 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 4: them together, and a die is going to shock everybody.

1867
01:41:45,040 --> 01:41:47,840
Speaker 4: And Morris Johnson can guard five positions and Yacks A

1868
01:41:47,920 --> 01:41:50,200
Speaker 4: Lindenberg like we might use them to just guard point

1869
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:52,479
Speaker 4: guard's ninety four feet And I'm like, yeah, okay, Mike

1870
01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 4: Blacks like this is what we're You don't need to

1871
01:41:56,040 --> 01:41:58,320
Speaker 4: try to sell me on. I know Dusty's a good coach.

1872
01:41:58,360 --> 01:41:59,560
Speaker 4: I know you're a good coach. You don't need to

1873
01:41:59,560 --> 01:42:02,040
Speaker 4: sell me on. So I didn't. I wasn't really a believer.

1874
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:05,040
Speaker 4: And then it clicked and it's like, oh, well, okay, yeah,

1875
01:42:05,120 --> 01:42:07,599
Speaker 4: that's exactly. Yeah, everything you just said is working right now.

1876
01:42:07,680 --> 01:42:11,680
Speaker 4: So I think Michigan is is is scary. I'm a

1877
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:14,360
Speaker 4: little worried what happens without Lja Cason. You lose your

1878
01:42:14,360 --> 01:42:16,679
Speaker 4: backup point guard. He's like a dynamic guy off the bench,

1879
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:17,479
Speaker 4: so no questions.

1880
01:42:17,560 --> 01:42:20,320
Speaker 1: And it also gives an ability in an NCAA tournament

1881
01:42:20,360 --> 01:42:22,599
Speaker 1: game to play two point guards together. Ye lose him

1882
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:25,120
Speaker 1: for the year and that that one hurts it the

1883
01:42:25,640 --> 01:42:28,960
Speaker 1: Caleb Foster being out for for Duke, same thing, right

1884
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:32,120
Speaker 1: these I used to when I worked for CBS and

1885
01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:36,400
Speaker 1: did Selection Sunday, I would always pick like one game

1886
01:42:36,439 --> 01:42:39,120
Speaker 1: I would lock in on would be based upon injury

1887
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:43,719
Speaker 1: right where the you know people who watched the selection show,

1888
01:42:44,280 --> 01:42:46,120
Speaker 1: you know ninety five percent of them haven't watched a

1889
01:42:46,120 --> 01:42:47,960
Speaker 1: game of college basketball, right, They're just give me a

1890
01:42:48,080 --> 01:42:49,840
Speaker 1: give me a winner. And it was the easiest thing

1891
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:51,559
Speaker 1: was to go like that team's going to get beat

1892
01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:54,320
Speaker 1: because people forgot that they've lost some some kind of

1893
01:42:54,439 --> 01:42:56,960
Speaker 1: key element. And I do think that that's a potential

1894
01:42:56,960 --> 01:43:02,920
Speaker 1: one will have. We last year I picked all but

1895
01:43:02,960 --> 01:43:05,800
Speaker 1: three games correctly, and it was because every game I

1896
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:10,040
Speaker 1: picked was based upon who had more money? That was it,

1897
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:13,720
Speaker 1: who had more money. I do think the gap has

1898
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:17,640
Speaker 1: grown wider between the habs, the power five and the

1899
01:43:17,680 --> 01:43:21,840
Speaker 1: have nots. There are some mid majors that have a

1900
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:27,519
Speaker 1: lot of money invested, and you've seen that in the results,

1901
01:43:27,760 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 1: but have we Is that era of George Mason, of VCU,

1902
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:40,360
Speaker 1: of Butler of you know, pick your favorite whatever story

1903
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:43,960
Speaker 1: which aita State to the final four? Is that era over?

1904
01:43:45,040 --> 01:43:47,680
Speaker 4: I think that it is, But and I don't necessarily

1905
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:51,559
Speaker 4: think it's just because of the amount of money at

1906
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:53,120
Speaker 4: the top or like one of the things. And I'm

1907
01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:55,479
Speaker 4: actually curious your opinion on it, because because you're in

1908
01:43:55,479 --> 01:43:57,639
Speaker 4: this in the day today at the mid midjor level,

1909
01:43:57,960 --> 01:44:01,559
Speaker 4: I don't think it's just the majors losing all of

1910
01:44:01,560 --> 01:44:03,360
Speaker 4: their best players to the high major level.

1911
01:44:03,400 --> 01:44:04,559
Speaker 3: That's certainly a part of it.

1912
01:44:04,600 --> 01:44:07,400
Speaker 4: But I think more than anything, it is the ability

1913
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:11,400
Speaker 4: to retain guys. Right like ten years ago, when we

1914
01:44:11,439 --> 01:44:13,560
Speaker 4: saw teams like Wichita State being able to get to

1915
01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:17,519
Speaker 4: a final four, there were ninety ninety five, sometimes even

1916
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:21,439
Speaker 4: one hundred players with eligibility remaining declaring for the drafts

1917
01:44:21,479 --> 01:44:24,200
Speaker 4: and staying in the draft because getting an Exhibit ten

1918
01:44:24,280 --> 01:44:25,920
Speaker 4: deal where you're going to make what like fifty K

1919
01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:29,800
Speaker 4: or going overseas and making fifty or sixty grand was

1920
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:31,720
Speaker 4: a better option than staying in the school when you

1921
01:44:31,720 --> 01:44:34,080
Speaker 4: have a limited window to be able to make money

1922
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:36,960
Speaker 4: off your athletic ability. Right, most basketball players by the

1923
01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:39,920
Speaker 4: time they get to thirty are probably not playing basketball anymore.

1924
01:44:40,000 --> 01:44:41,400
Speaker 3: So if you're twenty one and.

1925
01:44:41,320 --> 01:44:42,680
Speaker 4: You have the chance to be able to go get

1926
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:44,840
Speaker 4: into the professional ranks, you're probably going to be able

1927
01:44:44,880 --> 01:44:46,320
Speaker 4: to You're probably going to want to go do that.

1928
01:44:46,400 --> 01:44:49,559
Speaker 4: Fifteen years ago, ten years ago, and now it's you know,

1929
01:44:49,880 --> 01:44:52,559
Speaker 4: Yaxe Lindenberg would have been a top twenty pick and

1930
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:54,360
Speaker 4: he's coming back to college because he can make more

1931
01:44:54,400 --> 01:44:58,599
Speaker 4: money there. To me, more than anything, it's the retention

1932
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:01,800
Speaker 4: of guys coming back to college because of the fact

1933
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:03,920
Speaker 4: that they can make money here and sometimes more money

1934
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:06,760
Speaker 4: than they make in the NBA, And it's the influx

1935
01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:10,160
Speaker 4: of European talent. I think the top of the sport

1936
01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:12,920
Speaker 4: is the best that it's been probably since I've been

1937
01:45:12,920 --> 01:45:14,920
Speaker 4: covering this, Doug, and I've been doing this since two

1938
01:45:14,920 --> 01:45:17,240
Speaker 4: thousand and nine, I don't know if I've ever seen

1939
01:45:17,280 --> 01:45:19,000
Speaker 4: it better when it comes to the teams at the

1940
01:45:19,040 --> 01:45:21,599
Speaker 4: highest level. And yes, some of that is because you're

1941
01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:28,000
Speaker 4: seeing mid major programs get harvested by the higher programs

1942
01:45:28,280 --> 01:45:30,880
Speaker 4: or the higher level programs. But I think more than anything,

1943
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:34,320
Speaker 4: else it is the retention. So the value that you

1944
01:45:34,439 --> 01:45:37,320
Speaker 4: had ten years ago as a mid major was we're

1945
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:40,680
Speaker 4: older than these guys. These are all freshmen, so they're talented,

1946
01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:42,760
Speaker 4: but they don't really know how to play yet. They

1947
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:45,040
Speaker 4: haven't gone through some of these wars. And we have

1948
01:45:45,080 --> 01:45:46,920
Speaker 4: guys that are twenty two and twenty three years old.

1949
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:49,920
Speaker 4: And now the high major teams are just as old,

1950
01:45:50,200 --> 01:45:53,160
Speaker 4: but they're also like more talented. So you lost the

1951
01:45:53,200 --> 01:45:55,760
Speaker 4: advantage of being able to have grown men playing against kids.

1952
01:45:55,800 --> 01:45:58,240
Speaker 4: It's now grown men against grown men that are benefit

1953
01:45:58,600 --> 01:45:59,240
Speaker 4: and that's tough.

1954
01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:05,720
Speaker 1: You actually absolutely nail it. You absolutely positively nailed it. Yes, No,

1955
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 1: I mean.

1956
01:46:06,080 --> 01:46:07,800
Speaker 4: That's what happens when I spend more time talking to

1957
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:08,920
Speaker 4: you than talking to Jeff Goodman.

1958
01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:15,679
Speaker 1: No, it's because it's the that's I don't think people

1959
01:46:15,880 --> 01:46:20,240
Speaker 1: understand why, right, like it never it didn't happen in

1960
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:23,200
Speaker 1: the nineties, Like the nineties were dominated by the Dukes

1961
01:46:23,280 --> 01:46:27,920
Speaker 1: and the Michigans of the world because guys, you know,

1962
01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:31,120
Speaker 1: just you had better players and better coaches than you

1963
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:33,800
Speaker 1: had and you would have the occasional one off. And

1964
01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:37,120
Speaker 1: then we went through kind of twenty years of I mean,

1965
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:40,559
Speaker 1: and it really culminated in the mid major final four

1966
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:44,200
Speaker 1: right where flor Atlantic and San Diego State, you know

1967
01:46:44,280 --> 01:46:46,880
Speaker 1: they're there, and these these programs that would never sniff it.

1968
01:46:47,640 --> 01:46:51,040
Speaker 1: And this has completely flipped it back to where now

1969
01:46:51,120 --> 01:46:54,880
Speaker 1: the powers are the powers, and that until there's a change,

1970
01:46:54,960 --> 01:46:58,080
Speaker 1: this is how it's going to be. And I don't

1971
01:46:58,120 --> 01:47:01,320
Speaker 1: know if I know, the common maybe doesn't care or

1972
01:47:01,360 --> 01:47:05,759
Speaker 1: doesn't understand, but what you laid out is exactly why

1973
01:47:05,800 --> 01:47:08,920
Speaker 1: we are in this state. We just are. It's the

1974
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:12,960
Speaker 1: it's it's honestly. My argument against it's not on. My

1975
01:47:13,040 --> 01:47:16,679
Speaker 1: argument against Miam of Ohio was my argument against my Ohio.

1976
01:47:16,720 --> 01:47:19,160
Speaker 1: If anyone wants to say like they would be better

1977
01:47:19,200 --> 01:47:24,559
Speaker 1: than an Auburn, for example, they just aren't. And now

1978
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:26,280
Speaker 1: they've done a great job of attention. They have a

1979
01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:28,000
Speaker 1: lot of money sunk into their parking, a lot more

1980
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:32,040
Speaker 1: money than most men majors. But it's really hard to

1981
01:47:32,160 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 1: believe that a I think they have a two million

1982
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:37,960
Speaker 1: dollar roster is as good at the end of the

1983
01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:41,320
Speaker 1: year as a ten or twelve million dollar roster. It's

1984
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:47,200
Speaker 1: really like, that's really hard. And what again, what the

1985
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:49,840
Speaker 1: other factor that used to be was the three point

1986
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:55,160
Speaker 1: line used to be something that that could kind of

1987
01:47:55,200 --> 01:47:58,320
Speaker 1: even the playing field. But again, the high majors have

1988
01:47:58,439 --> 01:48:02,120
Speaker 1: embraced the three point line. If you go back to

1989
01:48:02,280 --> 01:48:06,120
Speaker 1: when there was an era there in the early two

1990
01:48:06,200 --> 01:48:09,640
Speaker 1: thousands when the Princeton offense was huge for everybody, and

1991
01:48:09,680 --> 01:48:12,160
Speaker 1: it was Princeton offense was seen as the ultimate way

1992
01:48:12,160 --> 01:48:15,280
Speaker 1: of evening the playing field, also cutting down the shot clock.

1993
01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:20,679
Speaker 1: More possessions, better teams have better talent, more possessions, more

1994
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:23,880
Speaker 1: likely to succeed. And then the last part is I

1995
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:27,760
Speaker 1: think you nail it with Florida, which is using the

1996
01:48:27,880 --> 01:48:30,400
Speaker 1: use of analytics, the use of kind of new creative

1997
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:33,680
Speaker 1: ways to win games. Now the high majors are using that.

1998
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:35,880
Speaker 1: They're not heads in the sand. We're going to throw

1999
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:39,360
Speaker 1: it inside and play high low basketball and not worry

2000
01:48:39,400 --> 01:48:41,920
Speaker 1: about the data. They're all doing the same kind of

2001
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:45,680
Speaker 1: smart things. By the way, Florida, though, the pace and

2002
01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:50,360
Speaker 1: space is analytics driven, so too is offensive rebounds and

2003
01:48:50,520 --> 01:48:55,640
Speaker 1: getting steals, right, because it's a way of generating more possessions.

2004
01:48:55,840 --> 01:49:00,320
Speaker 1: He who has more possessions wins nine times in ten, right,

2005
01:49:00,439 --> 01:49:03,720
Speaker 1: unless you're super super inefficient, like that's what we had

2006
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:05,920
Speaker 1: to do was we had to play at a slower

2007
01:49:05,960 --> 01:49:09,559
Speaker 1: pace and be super super efficient, knowing that the math

2008
01:49:09,720 --> 01:49:11,400
Speaker 1: was not on our side unless we got to the

2009
01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:14,200
Speaker 1: free throw line a ton because we didn't have We

2010
01:49:14,360 --> 01:49:17,320
Speaker 1: shot the three really well, but we had limited three

2011
01:49:17,320 --> 01:49:19,479
Speaker 1: point shooters. We couldn't have guys that shot in the

2012
01:49:19,479 --> 01:49:22,240
Speaker 1: twenties shooting five or six threes a game because we

2013
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:23,960
Speaker 1: don't rebound it all that well. Right, So you have

2014
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:26,080
Speaker 1: to use the data and use it to the best

2015
01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:28,840
Speaker 1: of your ability. But I think you put together that

2016
01:49:29,040 --> 01:49:32,280
Speaker 1: it's not a narrative, it's the reality of why the

2017
01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:34,639
Speaker 1: powers are the powers, and there's a greater gap than

2018
01:49:34,680 --> 01:49:38,479
Speaker 1: ever and the talent is better. Now here's the other part. Two.

2019
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:42,800
Speaker 1: Though college basketball is more talented than it's been, it

2020
01:49:42,960 --> 01:49:45,480
Speaker 1: is a really really good watch of really good basketball.

2021
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:50,840
Speaker 1: It's really hard for boosters because now you're throwing money

2022
01:49:50,840 --> 01:49:53,920
Speaker 1: at guys who you don't know and at fans in

2023
01:49:53,960 --> 01:49:56,800
Speaker 1: the regular season to go to games and cheer for

2024
01:49:56,880 --> 01:49:59,559
Speaker 1: players that you have no idea who they are, and

2025
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:02,920
Speaker 1: they're not truly invested for the most part in your program,

2026
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:05,479
Speaker 1: in the brand of their school, even when they try

2027
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:07,320
Speaker 1: and kind of fake it, and maybe they are for

2028
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:10,960
Speaker 1: a short period time. That's that's difficult. Do we get

2029
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:15,200
Speaker 1: to a tipping point where people that keep throwing money

2030
01:50:15,320 --> 01:50:18,000
Speaker 1: at their programs are like I'm out.

2031
01:50:19,040 --> 01:50:22,240
Speaker 4: Yes, Yeah, you're gonna eventually donor fatigue is gonna hit.

2032
01:50:22,240 --> 01:50:26,120
Speaker 4: There's only so much money if you're spending ten, twelve,

2033
01:50:26,400 --> 01:50:29,519
Speaker 4: fourteen million dollars on a roster, right, and then you

2034
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:31,479
Speaker 4: see these guys go out and have a year that's

2035
01:50:31,520 --> 01:50:36,760
Speaker 4: good but maybe not championship level. And you got to

2036
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:41,240
Speaker 4: go out and three of those guys graduate, six of

2037
01:50:41,280 --> 01:50:43,040
Speaker 4: them hit the portal, two of them go to the NBA,

2038
01:50:43,120 --> 01:50:45,200
Speaker 4: and you got to go out and replace ten players,

2039
01:50:45,479 --> 01:50:47,360
Speaker 4: and you got to raise that money again. And it's like, well,

2040
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:49,720
Speaker 4: I just gave you four million dollars last year, and

2041
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:51,600
Speaker 4: you're coming back to me and put your hand in

2042
01:50:51,600 --> 01:50:53,759
Speaker 4: my pocket again. And you guys made the Sweet sixteen

2043
01:50:54,080 --> 01:50:55,479
Speaker 4: and finish fourth in your league.

2044
01:50:55,520 --> 01:50:57,720
Speaker 3: Like, what's the return on investment there?

2045
01:50:57,760 --> 01:50:58,880
Speaker 4: So now I got to go and get a bunch

2046
01:50:58,880 --> 01:51:00,320
Speaker 4: of more guys where I'm gonna have to spend six

2047
01:51:00,360 --> 01:51:02,599
Speaker 4: months trying to figure out who they are. I think

2048
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:06,920
Speaker 4: the long term key to college basketball is going to

2049
01:51:06,960 --> 01:51:10,200
Speaker 4: be finding a way to incentivize coming back to school

2050
01:51:10,800 --> 01:51:13,280
Speaker 4: and don't I don't know how you do that without

2051
01:51:13,320 --> 01:51:17,960
Speaker 4: creating some kind of salary cap where you can make

2052
01:51:18,040 --> 01:51:19,880
Speaker 4: more money or a higher percentage of the cap by

2053
01:51:19,880 --> 01:51:23,120
Speaker 4: coming back to the program, or something where when you

2054
01:51:23,200 --> 01:51:24,960
Speaker 4: sign with the school you got to sign a four

2055
01:51:25,040 --> 01:51:26,120
Speaker 4: year deal and if.

2056
01:51:26,000 --> 01:51:28,400
Speaker 1: You multi your deals, yeah, if you leave, you got

2057
01:51:28,400 --> 01:51:30,479
Speaker 1: to pay something. Freshmen, I don't know if you know this,

2058
01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:33,559
Speaker 1: but incoming freshmen buying large. The top fifty have all

2059
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:34,839
Speaker 1: signed multi year deals.

2060
01:51:35,760 --> 01:51:37,680
Speaker 4: But if there's there's got to be some kind of

2061
01:51:37,720 --> 01:51:40,120
Speaker 4: buyout where when you if you transfer that you have

2062
01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:42,680
Speaker 4: to pay money. There's got to be a financial incentive

2063
01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:43,720
Speaker 4: there is.

2064
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:48,320
Speaker 1: The big question is are the athletic directors, the presidents,

2065
01:51:48,640 --> 01:51:51,640
Speaker 1: are the coaches going to make sure you pay? And

2066
01:51:51,680 --> 01:51:53,679
Speaker 1: there have been a couple of cases now of where

2067
01:51:53,720 --> 01:51:56,720
Speaker 1: in football where they're making them pay a buyout, right,

2068
01:51:57,160 --> 01:52:00,240
Speaker 1: But the big question is, and and my argument with

2069
01:52:00,240 --> 01:52:04,120
Speaker 1: with my boss is, let's put the buyout in the thing. Well,

2070
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:05,880
Speaker 1: are we really going to make them buy it out?

2071
01:52:05,920 --> 01:52:07,840
Speaker 1: Like yes, it's a real contract then yes?

2072
01:52:07,960 --> 01:52:08,280
Speaker 3: Yes?

2073
01:52:08,320 --> 01:52:10,800
Speaker 1: Well, well no one then no one will want to come.

2074
01:52:10,880 --> 01:52:14,240
Speaker 4: That's not true. That's not how that's how every family

2075
01:52:14,320 --> 01:52:17,839
Speaker 4: program does it, Doug. If every program puts the buyout

2076
01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:22,120
Speaker 4: in and forces the buyout, then that's where you limit

2077
01:52:22,160 --> 01:52:24,840
Speaker 4: the trends like it's it's because programs don't want to

2078
01:52:24,880 --> 01:52:26,400
Speaker 4: do that and are scared of not having to know.

2079
01:52:26,479 --> 01:52:29,040
Speaker 4: If everybody does it, then it's not going to be

2080
01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:31,600
Speaker 4: an issue because everyone's going to become industry standard. And

2081
01:52:31,640 --> 01:52:34,599
Speaker 4: once becomes industry standard, that's when the incentive is come

2082
01:52:34,600 --> 01:52:36,720
Speaker 4: back to school, because I don't want to have to

2083
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:41,599
Speaker 4: pay forty percent of the money come in next year, right,

2084
01:52:41,680 --> 01:52:43,680
Speaker 4: So I think that's going to be the key. If

2085
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:45,479
Speaker 4: you want to slow this thing down so we don't

2086
01:52:45,479 --> 01:52:48,599
Speaker 4: have seventeen thousand players in the portal whatever it is,

2087
01:52:48,840 --> 01:52:51,320
Speaker 4: every single spring, then that's that's how you do it.

2088
01:52:51,360 --> 01:52:54,519
Speaker 4: You want to reduce the term, make a financial create

2089
01:52:54,520 --> 01:52:56,720
Speaker 4: a financial incentive to come back to the program that

2090
01:52:56,720 --> 01:52:57,080
Speaker 4: you're at.

2091
01:52:57,920 --> 01:53:02,680
Speaker 1: To anyone who says you can't you can't have that

2092
01:53:02,960 --> 01:53:06,880
Speaker 1: like in a contract, well, I can tell you as

2093
01:53:06,960 --> 01:53:10,799
Speaker 1: somebody who's been in the media for twenty five years,

2094
01:53:11,240 --> 01:53:15,960
Speaker 1: there's something called a non compete clause. A non compete clause,

2095
01:53:16,280 --> 01:53:19,080
Speaker 1: there is no difference in a non compete clause in

2096
01:53:19,200 --> 01:53:23,879
Speaker 1: basketball as there is in media. That's it. There's literally

2097
01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:27,679
Speaker 1: no difference in the two. And you know your only

2098
01:53:27,680 --> 01:53:31,120
Speaker 1: way out of a non compete clause, which you could

2099
01:53:31,200 --> 01:53:35,040
Speaker 1: make players sit out a year just like they used to,

2100
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:37,719
Speaker 1: only instead of having it as a punishment of transfer.

2101
01:53:37,960 --> 01:53:39,519
Speaker 1: Make it in those contracts or you have a non

2102
01:53:39,560 --> 01:53:41,559
Speaker 1: compete clause. Hey, you do whatever you want, you make

2103
01:53:41,600 --> 01:53:43,960
Speaker 1: well every much you want, but you can't be playing

2104
01:53:44,040 --> 01:53:47,160
Speaker 1: college basketball for a year based upon this non compete clause.

2105
01:53:47,280 --> 01:53:48,599
Speaker 1: You probably have to have a buy out of that

2106
01:53:49,080 --> 01:53:51,960
Speaker 1: as well, so it can be done. Last thing, Rob,

2107
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:56,839
Speaker 1: and I appreciate your time. We are in full college

2108
01:53:57,880 --> 01:54:04,759
Speaker 1: basketball coach search season Syracuse probably the biggest name job

2109
01:54:05,120 --> 01:54:09,400
Speaker 1: that's available. But there will be a surprise. There's always

2110
01:54:09,439 --> 01:54:13,080
Speaker 1: a surprise. And you talked about donor fatigue and one

2111
01:54:13,080 --> 01:54:16,599
Speaker 1: of the things that has definitely changes. You don't get

2112
01:54:16,680 --> 01:54:19,080
Speaker 1: four or five years to figure it out, right, you

2113
01:54:19,280 --> 01:54:26,200
Speaker 1: just don't. What's the big job that or coach, whether

2114
01:54:26,200 --> 01:54:29,880
Speaker 1: it's retirement or move. What's the one that you think

2115
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:34,280
Speaker 1: is coming that is going to surprise people that hasn't

2116
01:54:34,280 --> 01:54:34,920
Speaker 1: popped yet.

2117
01:54:35,640 --> 01:54:38,320
Speaker 4: I'll be curious to see what happens at Oregon, right,

2118
01:54:38,360 --> 01:54:42,040
Speaker 4: because I feel like Oregon is a job where the

2119
01:54:42,360 --> 01:54:44,840
Speaker 4: affiliation with Nike and Phil and I obviously is going

2120
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:46,680
Speaker 4: to be something that should should help them out quite

2121
01:54:46,680 --> 01:54:48,120
Speaker 4: a bit, not just when it comes to money, but

2122
01:54:48,160 --> 01:54:51,160
Speaker 4: when it comes to the prestige of beating in with

2123
01:54:51,280 --> 01:54:55,840
Speaker 4: Nike and they're in the big ten now, and if

2124
01:54:55,920 --> 01:54:58,120
Speaker 4: Dana decides that, hey, you know what, it's been a

2125
01:54:58,280 --> 01:54:59,200
Speaker 4: rough couple of years.

2126
01:55:00,040 --> 01:55:01,760
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm built for this anymore.

2127
01:55:02,120 --> 01:55:04,960
Speaker 4: Is that something where that opens up and that's I

2128
01:55:05,000 --> 01:55:08,520
Speaker 4: think it's going to be a relatively quiet cycle. I

2129
01:55:08,560 --> 01:55:11,080
Speaker 4: don't know if I'm curious if you agree or disagree

2130
01:55:11,080 --> 01:55:13,120
Speaker 4: on that, but it just feels like we've had some

2131
01:55:13,200 --> 01:55:15,920
Speaker 4: of these big, big, big jobs open up quite a

2132
01:55:15,920 --> 01:55:18,800
Speaker 4: bit recently where I don't know if there's going to

2133
01:55:18,840 --> 01:55:20,800
Speaker 4: be the movement. And the one thing that I'm actually

2134
01:55:20,800 --> 01:55:25,840
Speaker 4: curious about is when you have the churn this quick,

2135
01:55:27,200 --> 01:55:30,520
Speaker 4: are you one burning through a lot of the candidates

2136
01:55:30,520 --> 01:55:32,720
Speaker 4: that have a chance to end up being great coaches

2137
01:55:32,760 --> 01:55:34,760
Speaker 4: down the road because they don't get the chance to

2138
01:55:34,760 --> 01:55:37,200
Speaker 4: figure it out on the fly. You're taking flyers on

2139
01:55:37,280 --> 01:55:39,960
Speaker 4: maybe some young assistants that aren't quite ready. Some mid

2140
01:55:39,960 --> 01:55:41,840
Speaker 4: major guys that are still trying to figure it out

2141
01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:44,960
Speaker 4: as they move up a level, and if you burn

2142
01:55:45,040 --> 01:55:47,800
Speaker 4: through them, like if you give someone let's just use

2143
01:55:47,880 --> 01:55:50,920
Speaker 4: Kim English as an example, right, I think there was

2144
01:55:51,240 --> 01:55:52,920
Speaker 4: a chance that he could end up being a really,

2145
01:55:53,000 --> 01:55:55,240
Speaker 4: really good coach down the road. He gets two years

2146
01:55:55,240 --> 01:55:57,440
Speaker 4: at George Mason, then has to go to Providence because

2147
01:55:57,440 --> 01:55:59,240
Speaker 4: that opportunity opens up and you're not going to say

2148
01:55:59,240 --> 01:56:01,640
Speaker 4: no to it. Years at Providence and it doesn't work,

2149
01:56:01,680 --> 01:56:04,120
Speaker 4: and he's still like, what was he thirty nine years

2150
01:56:04,120 --> 01:56:06,320
Speaker 4: old and he's been at two different jobs and is

2151
01:56:06,360 --> 01:56:07,640
Speaker 4: now fired at the high major level.

2152
01:56:07,720 --> 01:56:08,920
Speaker 3: Is he going to get another chance?

2153
01:56:09,240 --> 01:56:12,680
Speaker 4: Whereas you know ten years ago, when you don't turn

2154
01:56:12,760 --> 01:56:15,280
Speaker 4: through the ranks this quickly, maybe he would have had

2155
01:56:15,280 --> 01:56:17,200
Speaker 4: a longer time at George Mason to kind of figure

2156
01:56:17,200 --> 01:56:18,640
Speaker 4: things out, and maybe when he got to the high

2157
01:56:18,720 --> 01:56:20,320
Speaker 4: major level he would have been a little bit more

2158
01:56:20,320 --> 01:56:24,080
Speaker 4: prepared for that and it would be something where before

2159
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:26,400
Speaker 4: he's forty, it looks like he's already kind of doing

2160
01:56:26,480 --> 01:56:29,440
Speaker 4: air quotes here damage goods. So I think that we're

2161
01:56:29,520 --> 01:56:31,920
Speaker 4: kind of burning through these candidates because they're getting jobs

2162
01:56:31,920 --> 01:56:33,920
Speaker 4: that maybe they're not quite ready for. And you get

2163
01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:36,400
Speaker 4: two or three years and then you're gone and it's like, Okay, well,

2164
01:56:36,400 --> 01:56:38,080
Speaker 4: what do you do now? Or is anyone still going

2165
01:56:38,120 --> 01:56:39,600
Speaker 4: to come back and find this guy that has a

2166
01:56:39,680 --> 01:56:42,000
Speaker 4: chance to be really, really good he's just not ready

2167
01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:43,440
Speaker 4: for the job that he was given yet.

2168
01:56:43,920 --> 01:56:47,440
Speaker 1: Well, it's fascinating to bring up Dana Altman because Dane

2169
01:56:47,440 --> 01:56:50,760
Speaker 1: Altman was a junior college coach that took over for

2170
01:56:50,920 --> 01:56:55,680
Speaker 1: Lan Kruger at Kansas State yep, right, And because Lan

2171
01:56:55,760 --> 01:57:00,480
Speaker 1: Krueger had taken Kansas State to the lead eight, Dana

2172
01:57:00,600 --> 01:57:04,080
Speaker 1: was seen as an underachiever at Kansas State. So then

2173
01:57:04,120 --> 01:57:07,600
Speaker 1: he took the Creighton job and he built Creyton into

2174
01:57:07,640 --> 01:57:10,320
Speaker 1: a monster. And I don't know if people remember, but

2175
01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:14,000
Speaker 1: he took the Arkansas job for like ten days and

2176
01:57:14,040 --> 01:57:18,240
Speaker 1: then came back and was sort of stuck at Creighton forever. Right,

2177
01:57:18,480 --> 01:57:21,280
Speaker 1: And Dana was always mentioned for jobs and it is

2178
01:57:21,320 --> 01:57:24,760
Speaker 1: an amazing basketball coach, and the thought was always because

2179
01:57:24,800 --> 01:57:28,400
Speaker 1: he's from and they would be Nebraska or Iowa. Was

2180
01:57:28,480 --> 01:57:30,600
Speaker 1: Iowa was always his kind of his dream job because

2181
01:57:30,640 --> 01:57:33,880
Speaker 1: he's you know, from the area, and you know, he's

2182
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:36,280
Speaker 1: always had his dad come to all of his games

2183
01:57:36,400 --> 01:57:38,720
Speaker 1: and then lo and behold, he ends up taking Oregon

2184
01:57:38,720 --> 01:57:41,640
Speaker 1: and he was like their tenth choice at Oregon and

2185
01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:44,000
Speaker 1: he's an amazing coach, takes them to a Final four

2186
01:57:44,480 --> 01:57:47,360
Speaker 1: and now, like you know, again, has a bad run,

2187
01:57:47,840 --> 01:57:51,880
Speaker 1: best player gets hurt. Right, totally different era, and I like,

2188
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:54,160
Speaker 1: are we really going to force him to retire when

2189
01:57:54,440 --> 01:57:58,040
Speaker 1: he's Dana Altman, like ask any coach, like, dude, he's

2190
01:57:58,480 --> 01:58:03,280
Speaker 1: kind of amazing. And then you circle back to Kansas State,

2191
01:58:03,480 --> 01:58:08,360
Speaker 1: who thought they hired the next kind of more. He

2192
01:58:08,400 --> 01:58:11,200
Speaker 1: was more Bruce Pearl right in terms of a little

2193
01:58:11,200 --> 01:58:17,280
Speaker 1: bit of salesman, Carnival Barker, great energy, positivity. They go

2194
01:58:17,320 --> 01:58:19,520
Speaker 1: to the Elite day this first year, then they put

2195
01:58:19,600 --> 01:58:22,640
Speaker 1: a ton of money in the program and don't get

2196
01:58:22,680 --> 01:58:24,400
Speaker 1: the results, and all of a sudden, now he's out

2197
01:58:24,440 --> 01:58:26,760
Speaker 1: of a job. And again then it's it's Kansas State,

2198
01:58:27,080 --> 01:58:29,880
Speaker 1: who's just in this kind of curious predicament of who

2199
01:58:29,920 --> 01:58:32,120
Speaker 1: are we in this era? How do we build it right?

2200
01:58:33,480 --> 01:58:36,640
Speaker 1: The whole thing is absolutely fascinating. I will say this,

2201
01:58:36,920 --> 01:58:40,280
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons the cycle may not

2202
01:58:40,440 --> 01:58:44,600
Speaker 1: be may not have the openings at the high level

2203
01:58:44,720 --> 01:58:50,920
Speaker 1: is because the buyouts are are gargantuan and unlike football.

2204
01:58:51,960 --> 01:58:54,440
Speaker 1: Unlike football, where you can make on your stadium, you

2205
01:58:54,440 --> 01:58:57,720
Speaker 1: can make one hundred plus million dollars on a yearly basis,

2206
01:58:57,880 --> 01:59:01,560
Speaker 1: so you can make up that very quickly. Basketball just

2207
01:59:01,560 --> 01:59:04,000
Speaker 1: doesn't make that much money. It just doesn't. I mean

2208
01:59:05,040 --> 01:59:07,879
Speaker 1: it doesn't. You're you're talking about the best programs clearing

2209
01:59:08,160 --> 01:59:11,640
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen million dollars, whereas the best programs in

2210
01:59:12,120 --> 01:59:14,480
Speaker 1: college football clear one hundred and fifty to two hundred

2211
01:59:14,480 --> 01:59:17,440
Speaker 1: million dollars. So it doesn't make sense to buy a

2212
01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:20,560
Speaker 1: guy out for fifteen million, and then you have to

2213
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:23,480
Speaker 1: pay the next guy three or four million, and his

2214
01:59:23,560 --> 01:59:25,680
Speaker 1: staff a couple of million, plus then you have to

2215
01:59:25,680 --> 01:59:29,360
Speaker 1: fund their new roster, which isn't an You got to.

2216
01:59:28,720 --> 01:59:31,040
Speaker 4: Pay his buyout of the school that he's coming from.

2217
01:59:31,080 --> 01:59:33,240
Speaker 4: So like all of these things, it doesn't make it.

2218
01:59:33,240 --> 01:59:36,600
Speaker 4: Whereas and it just doesn't make financial sense. On the

2219
01:59:36,640 --> 01:59:39,560
Speaker 4: other hand, if you don't buy out some of these guys,

2220
01:59:39,800 --> 01:59:42,600
Speaker 4: then the donors won't give any money. Then you're going

2221
01:59:42,680 --> 01:59:45,320
Speaker 4: to have a terrible year the next year dead man

2222
01:59:45,400 --> 01:59:49,840
Speaker 4: walking right, and you're not gonna know you not make money.

2223
01:59:49,840 --> 01:59:52,640
Speaker 4: But you're still you're going to lose money, and now

2224
01:59:52,680 --> 01:59:54,560
Speaker 4: you're back in the same predicament the next year, only

2225
01:59:54,560 --> 01:59:57,600
Speaker 4: the buyout is slightly less. But the buyout is slightly less,

2226
01:59:57,600 --> 02:00:01,000
Speaker 4: but now you're you're underwater for the whole.

2227
02:00:01,160 --> 02:00:04,160
Speaker 1: It's crazy. I do think the one thing they need

2228
02:00:04,200 --> 02:00:08,080
Speaker 1: to avoid is people finding out exactly how much money

2229
02:00:08,280 --> 02:00:11,760
Speaker 1: players are making, because do you remember have you ever

2230
02:00:11,760 --> 02:00:16,160
Speaker 1: seen the Parade magazine? I don't know. Again, you're not

2231
02:00:16,240 --> 02:00:22,760
Speaker 1: very Americ, but but but Parade was like a magazine

2232
02:00:22,920 --> 02:00:30,200
Speaker 1: inside an insert into the Sunday newspaper and my favorite

2233
02:00:30,520 --> 02:00:32,640
Speaker 1: Parade magazine. We used to do this. Dave Revson who

2234
02:00:32,640 --> 02:00:34,640
Speaker 1: works with the Big Ten Network and I we did

2235
02:00:34,680 --> 02:00:39,400
Speaker 1: a Patriot League championship game Lehigh shoot who I can't

2236
02:00:39,440 --> 02:00:41,880
Speaker 1: remember who's against. Lehigh ends up going to the NCA

2237
02:00:41,920 --> 02:00:47,240
Speaker 1: tournament and we're driving back from Lehigh from Pennsylvania to Bristol, Connecticut,

2238
02:00:47,280 --> 02:00:49,440
Speaker 1: when we're working in the ESPN and we were doing

2239
02:00:49,480 --> 02:00:53,400
Speaker 1: the how much does this guy make? Like librarian in

2240
02:00:53,600 --> 02:00:59,920
Speaker 1: des Moines, and your whole perception of somebody and their

2241
02:01:00,120 --> 02:01:02,720
Speaker 1: value on this earth is based upon how much money

2242
02:01:02,760 --> 02:01:06,880
Speaker 1: they make. We don't judge athletes necessarily based on how

2243
02:01:06,920 --> 02:01:10,240
Speaker 1: great they are. It's at that bump for thirty million dollars,

2244
02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:14,480
Speaker 1: I'd get out there and play. Right. If the common

2245
02:01:14,520 --> 02:01:18,480
Speaker 1: fan finds out that the point guard at Florida makes

2246
02:01:18,560 --> 02:01:23,080
Speaker 1: three million dollars and he has a bad game, your

2247
02:01:23,120 --> 02:01:27,560
Speaker 1: whole energy towards him changes compared to ten years ago

2248
02:01:27,600 --> 02:01:29,240
Speaker 1: when we're like, well, he was a college kid. He

2249
02:01:29,280 --> 02:01:31,720
Speaker 1: was at Princeton last year, Like this is a great story,

2250
02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:33,920
Speaker 1: all right, he didn't play well, but you know he

2251
02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:36,360
Speaker 1: was at Princeton, didn't have a scholarship. Now he's at

2252
02:01:36,360 --> 02:01:39,520
Speaker 1: Florida defending nationallyam I just think that when people find

2253
02:01:39,560 --> 02:01:42,960
Speaker 1: out how much these guys are making, it's not the

2254
02:01:43,160 --> 02:01:46,840
Speaker 1: energy is already changed. With gambling being everywhere, I think

2255
02:01:46,880 --> 02:01:48,240
Speaker 1: the energy changes even more.

2256
02:01:48,480 --> 02:01:51,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, But also the flip side of it is you

2257
02:01:51,640 --> 02:01:53,720
Speaker 4: are a pro, and part of being a pro is

2258
02:01:53,760 --> 02:01:56,800
Speaker 4: you're getting paid to deal with some of that criticism, right,

2259
02:01:56,880 --> 02:02:00,280
Speaker 4: and if you are making multiple million dollar was like,

2260
02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:02,600
Speaker 4: if your salary has two commas with a crooked number

2261
02:02:02,600 --> 02:02:05,240
Speaker 4: in front, then you should be able to handle a

2262
02:02:05,240 --> 02:02:07,720
Speaker 4: little bit of somebody on Twitter set.

2263
02:02:07,920 --> 02:02:10,480
Speaker 1: But there's still twenty twenty one, twenty years old.

2264
02:02:10,760 --> 02:02:12,040
Speaker 3: No, I look, I get it.

2265
02:02:12,080 --> 02:02:14,360
Speaker 4: There's there's two different sides to it, and I've I

2266
02:02:14,440 --> 02:02:17,680
Speaker 4: try to be cognizant of that when we there are

2267
02:02:17,720 --> 02:02:19,160
Speaker 4: going to be times where you have to be critical

2268
02:02:19,160 --> 02:02:22,360
Speaker 4: of players doing this job, right, Yeah, and when when

2269
02:02:22,440 --> 02:02:26,000
Speaker 4: it's a nineteen year old who has moved out of

2270
02:02:26,000 --> 02:02:28,040
Speaker 4: his parents' house for the first time and is like

2271
02:02:28,120 --> 02:02:31,120
Speaker 4: on his own six months been honestly like, it's it's

2272
02:02:31,200 --> 02:02:33,040
Speaker 4: one thing to be critical of that person. It's another

2273
02:02:33,080 --> 02:02:35,080
Speaker 4: thing when it's like a twenty three year old that's

2274
02:02:35,080 --> 02:02:37,680
Speaker 4: in his fifth year of college that probably has two

2275
02:02:37,680 --> 02:02:39,880
Speaker 4: different mortgages, so it is where it a chain that's

2276
02:02:39,880 --> 02:02:40,800
Speaker 4: worth more than my house?

2277
02:02:41,000 --> 02:02:43,800
Speaker 3: Then then then yes we can be a little bit

2278
02:02:43,800 --> 02:02:44,320
Speaker 3: more critical.

2279
02:02:44,800 --> 02:02:48,520
Speaker 1: Field of sixty eight. Download it, watch it wherever, wherever

2280
02:02:48,600 --> 02:02:51,480
Speaker 1: you ingest it. It's the best rob. I appreciate your time,

2281
02:02:52,000 --> 02:02:54,240
Speaker 1: enjoy the NCAA tournament. I can't wait to see your

2282
02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:55,000
Speaker 1: guys coverage.

2283
02:02:55,360 --> 02:02:56,200
Speaker 3: I appreciate you, Doug.

2284
02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:02,880
Speaker 1: So that's it for this edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show.

2285
02:03:02,920 --> 02:03:07,240
Speaker 1: Or reminder a WFRV Plus is our digital home for

2286
02:03:07,320 --> 02:03:12,440
Speaker 1: the show. WFRV TV is our TV home or the

2287
02:03:12,480 --> 02:03:15,880
Speaker 1: show and the iHeart podcast Network, or just type in

2288
02:03:15,920 --> 02:03:19,600
Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieb Show, or you can type in All Ball

2289
02:03:19,600 --> 02:03:23,440
Speaker 1: with Doug Gottlieb and you can download this show and

2290
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:27,440
Speaker 1: all of our long form interviews throughout not just the

2291
02:03:27,560 --> 02:03:30,800
Speaker 1: NCAA Tournament, but go back and historically there's really good,

2292
02:03:30,840 --> 02:03:37,440
Speaker 1: really interesting ones. I'm available on social media TikTok, Instagram,

2293
02:03:37,320 --> 02:03:40,920
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Gottlieb Show. You can DM me, connect

2294
02:03:40,920 --> 02:03:43,160
Speaker 1: with me. If you want to hate on me, that's fine.

2295
02:03:43,440 --> 02:03:46,600
Speaker 1: We can block you as my good friend. Future Hall

2296
02:03:46,600 --> 02:03:51,200
Speaker 1: of Famers Seth Davis said, muting people as like squishing ants,

2297
02:03:51,440 --> 02:03:53,520
Speaker 1: so we can do that as well. But I do

2298
02:03:53,680 --> 02:03:58,120
Speaker 1: appreciate you listening, you watching you, supporting, and more than anything,

2299
02:03:58,320 --> 02:04:03,680
Speaker 1: understand this that I'm a head college basketball coach. I've

2300
02:04:03,680 --> 02:04:05,880
Speaker 1: gotten a chance to be a broadcaster. I've gotten a

2301
02:04:05,960 --> 02:04:10,440
Speaker 1: chance to play. And what I love about this time

2302
02:04:10,480 --> 02:04:13,160
Speaker 1: of year, what I know about this time year from

2303
02:04:13,200 --> 02:04:18,160
Speaker 1: personal experiences, whether you win or whether you lose, simply

2304
02:04:18,240 --> 02:04:20,800
Speaker 1: being put in front of the nation and having this

2305
02:04:20,840 --> 02:04:25,080
Speaker 1: opportunity to grow your own brand creates a whole new

2306
02:04:25,120 --> 02:04:27,920
Speaker 1: life for you. All of what I've been able to

2307
02:04:27,960 --> 02:04:32,320
Speaker 1: do professionally for the last twenty six years since I've

2308
02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:36,800
Speaker 1: been out of college twenty six years, from my three kids,

2309
02:04:36,840 --> 02:04:42,760
Speaker 1: to my marriage that lasted twenty years, to jobs at

2310
02:04:43,200 --> 02:04:47,240
Speaker 1: ESPN for ten years, CBS for five years, Fox Sports

2311
02:04:47,240 --> 02:04:49,880
Speaker 1: for seven years, and now being a head basketball coach

2312
02:04:50,160 --> 02:04:53,440
Speaker 1: in college for two years. All of it is made

2313
02:04:53,480 --> 02:04:57,560
Speaker 1: possible because I played in three NCAA tournaments and people

2314
02:04:58,080 --> 02:05:00,960
Speaker 1: somehow got to know my name and I did fun

2315
02:05:01,040 --> 02:05:04,480
Speaker 1: interviews and I became somebody that had some sort of

2316
02:05:04,520 --> 02:05:08,440
Speaker 1: name recognition. And I love covering it because I know

2317
02:05:08,800 --> 02:05:11,640
Speaker 1: that the future Doug Gottlieb is on one of these teams,

2318
02:05:11,960 --> 02:05:14,960
Speaker 1: and I'll champion his success when he gets his opportunity.

2319
02:05:15,360 --> 02:05:18,120
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for watching, for listening or downloading and

2320
02:05:18,160 --> 02:05:19,680
Speaker 1: be a part of The Doug Gotlieb Show.