1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: On January first, twenty fourteen, scuba divers were exploring the 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: waters off kataw. They were just off the coast near 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: the Hillside Resort when they came upon a body floating 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: in the water. It was a young adult male who 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: had appeared had not been in the water long. It 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: looked like he had dried blood on his face and 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: a large gash on his head. That young man was 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: twenty five year old Nick Pearson. He was on a 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: family vacation with his mother Tracy, his father Graham, and 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: his older brother Matt, who taught English on Katao. The 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: island police ruled that Nick Pearson had fallen fifty feet 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: into the bay and drowned. Despite claims of a fall, 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: Nick had no broken bones. While police rolled out foul play, 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: Nick's family believes he was murdered. Welcome to Death Island 15 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: production of Kati's Studios and iHeartRadio, Episode seven, The Case 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: of Nick Pearson. 17 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 2: I'm Connor Powell, an investigative journalist at kat Studios with 18 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 2: Stephanie Leidecker, Courtney Armstrong, Andrew Arnow, and Jeff Shane. Just 19 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: a note about our process. In this episode, you're going 20 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: to hear Andrew and I tell the story of Nick 21 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,559 Speaker 2: Pearson Now. We spent months attempting to contact countless people 22 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: for this podcast. We tried to reach out to all 23 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 2: the families of the victims and as many people connected 24 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: to our stories as we could find. Many families simply 25 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: remove social media accounts due to harassment or simply don't 26 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: want to talk about Kotao and the loved ones they lost. Still, 27 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: we spoke to many people, both on and off the 28 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: record to get a full account of Kotao, not only 29 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: for this podcast episode, but for the entire series as 30 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: we could. In December of two thousand and fifteen, Nick 31 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: came to the island of koto with his family to 32 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: celebrate the holidays. It was the seventh time the twenty 33 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: five year old had visited Kotoo, and Nick was out 34 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 2: and joining himself. The family spent New Year's Eve having 35 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: dinner and drinks and stopped off at Chopper's Bar and 36 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 2: Grill for a cocktail. Nick's mother, Tracy, said that after 37 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 2: their meal and drinks, they headed out to Sarre Beach 38 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: for the New Year's Eve countdown and fireworks. 39 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: At about one am, the family headed back to the 40 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 3: Hillside resort, where they were staying. They were sleeping in 41 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: bungalows on a steep hillside that overlooked the sea. Nick's father, Graham, 42 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 3: and his brother Matt walked him back to his room 43 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 3: and put him to bed. According to Matt, Nick had 44 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 3: an infection in his knee from a few days earlier 45 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 3: and was having trouble walking. Nick's father remembered putting Nick 46 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 3: into bed, pulling up the sheets, and Nick saying good night. 47 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 3: The next morning, on New Year's Day, the family began 48 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 3: to worry because they hadn't seen or heard from Nick 49 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 3: for hours. 50 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: They knocked on the door of his room, but there 51 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 2: was no answer. Nick's parents alerted hotel officials and with 52 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 2: a master key, they opened the hotel door, but he 53 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: wasn't inside, so the question was where was Nick. After 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: several hours, friends came to Tracy's room with news. Hotel 55 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: staff had told them that Nick had been found dead 56 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 2: floating in the sea. Scuba divers found Nick's body at 57 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: the base of a fifty foot cliff just off the 58 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 2: shore of the resort. 59 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 3: Nick's parents were taken to a temple to identify the body. 60 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 3: Upon seeing their son, they noticed that his head had 61 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 3: a large gash. The police ruled Nick's death as an accident, 62 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 3: that Nick, possibly still intoxicated, had fallen fifty feet down 63 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 3: into the water and died. But Nick's family had questions. 64 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 3: Why would the twenty five year old, who was having 65 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: trouble walking because of his injury go for a walk 66 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 3: after the family had put him to bed. Nick's brother, Matt, 67 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 3: wondered if Nick could have been sleep walking and fallen 68 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 3: into the water. But with the layout of the resort, 69 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 3: the rewinding stairs turned at sharp corners that would have 70 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 3: prevented someone from falling into the sea, and even if 71 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 3: someone did fall down the stairs, they would stop as 72 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 3: soon as they hit one of the corners. There's no 73 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 3: direct fall into the ocean. 74 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: And even if Nick had somehow managed to fall down 75 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 2: all of the hundreds of winding stairs, eventually he would 76 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: have been stopped by the massive rocks blocking the path 77 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: to the sea. Both Tracy and Matt don't think it 78 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: was physically possible that Nick could have fallen into the 79 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: ocean from his bungalow at the resort. With their questions mounting, 80 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 2: the family had an autopsy don in the UK. 81 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 3: The autopsy showed that Nick had no broken bones. How 82 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 3: could he have fallen fifty feet as the police suggested, 83 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 3: without breaking a single bone in his body. The pathologists 84 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 3: noted that there were many injuries on Nick's body, including 85 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 3: to the head, limbs, and face. He said that most 86 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: of these would have been present prior to his death. 87 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 3: He could not rule out the possibility that Nick had 88 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 3: been attacked, but. 89 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: The questions of Nick's parents fell on deaf ears in hotel. 90 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: Tracy also questioned the thoroughness of the investigation done by 91 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 2: ty police. The police didn't even look at his room 92 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: or the area where he was found for clues, and 93 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: there was another troubling detail. Nick's hotel room key was 94 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 2: still in his room. 95 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 3: The hotel room key could point to Nick being forcibly 96 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 3: taken out of the room, possibly by someone who had 97 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 3: access to a master key like staff or maybe the 98 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 3: owner of the resort, but there was no follow up 99 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 3: from local investigators. The question remains who on the island 100 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 3: would want to harm Nick Pearson. Nick's mother, Tracy remembered 101 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 3: something that happened the night of her son's death. He 102 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 3: met a tig girl that he liked and he was 103 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 3: chatting with her and they seemed to be getting on. 104 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 3: Tracy wondered if that had caused offense on the island. 105 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 3: Did a jealous boyfriend follow Nick back to his bungalow 106 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 3: and do him harm. 107 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: Connor spoke with journalists and author Sue Buchanan, who wrote 108 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: the book The Curse of the Turtle, the true story 109 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: of Thailand's backpacker murders. At the time of Nick Pearson's death, 110 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: she was editor of The Samui Times, a local paper 111 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:12,679 Speaker 1: on Katao. 112 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 4: I was told that he'd been schmoozing one of the 113 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 4: Tuwichian family's girlfriends in the bar. 114 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: The Davision, who we've spoken about before, are one of 115 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: the handfuls of families who own most of the land 116 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: and businesses on Katao. 117 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: And is that something they could get you killed? 118 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, in Thailand doesn't take much. Now, that to me, 119 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 4: that was completely plausible. 120 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 2: Based on everything you had seen on the island. 121 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, based on I mean I've been living there for 122 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 4: quite a long time by then, so yeah, that was 123 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 4: what I was told. I mean, I knew quite a 124 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 4: lot of the police on Kosamui, and they knew the 125 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 4: police on Kotoo, so they just said, yeah, he'd been 126 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 4: trying to cop off with girl's girlfriend and she was 127 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 4: making buying noises. She was really interested in him, and 128 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 4: that made her boyfriend's face like if she'd have not responded, 129 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 4: he probably would have been alright. 130 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: One of the things that Ian said was that the 131 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 2: police on Kotao, Thailand in general, they're really there to 132 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 2: make sure that Thailand doesn't look bad, and so that 133 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 2: it's easier to either not investigate, or if you're going 134 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: to investigate, blame it on a foreigner. Is that your 135 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: experience as well. 136 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 4: I think you've got to remember that the north of 137 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 4: Thailand and the South of Thailand is completely different. Like 138 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 4: southern Thailand, the police are not paid enough, right, so 139 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 4: the police are on a very very very low salary. 140 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 4: They have to buy their own weapons, they have to 141 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 4: buy their own ammunition. So the only way they can 142 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 4: make enough money is to take tea money and take 143 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 4: bribes because they can't feasibly live on their salaries. 144 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 2: When you say tea money, you essentially mean like bribes. 145 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. The other thing you have to remember in Southern 146 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 4: Thailand is if you want to be the chief of police, 147 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 4: you buy that role. You don't go to police training 148 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 4: school and learn how to be a policeman and then 149 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 4: get promoted every year. You buy your position. So if 150 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 4: your families say, right, well we need someone in our 151 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 4: family to be in the police, then they're all club 152 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 4: together and they buy their position. So if you're a 153 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 4: poor family, you're just going to be a really lowly 154 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 4: policemen who doesn't have a lot of power. If you 155 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 4: can borrow money and rock up some money, you can 156 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 4: buy a position much further up. And then the further 157 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 4: up you are the bigger cut of the tea money 158 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 4: you get, right, but you're only getting tea money from 159 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 4: you know, businesses that are looked after by the mafia. 160 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 4: So your boss is not you know, the police in Bangkok. 161 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 4: Your boss is whoever's patch you're on. 162 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: These patches who as referring to are ones owned by 163 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: the ruling families on katao. 164 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 2: On kotel, I mean the police work for the families rights. 165 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 2: That's their role is to make sure the families are 166 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: getting paid. 167 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, their role is to do whatever the family 168 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 4: is tell them to do cover stuff up. Basically, they 169 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 4: just lose evidence. Say for example, I was a big 170 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 4: mafia family there and I just decided to kill someone. 171 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 4: The first thing I do is call in the police 172 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 4: that are on my payroll and tell them to get 173 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 4: rid of all the evidence. 174 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: We should take a moment to acknowledge that it's very 175 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: difficult to verify what soup you can in the saying, 176 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: we're not on the ground in Katao, We're ten thousand 177 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: miles away. But if even part of what she's saying 178 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: is accurate, then that's worth investigating further. 179 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 2: In any case, it appears that Tay police didn't do 180 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: much of an investigation into Nick's death. Tracy believes the 181 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: police didn't want to investigate Nick's death because they wanted 182 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 2: to protect their tourism industry. They ruled it an accident 183 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: to save face for Kotau and for Thailand. 184 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 3: Now, it's important to remember, as many people have told us, 185 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 3: a big thing in the Thai community is saving face, 186 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 3: and one thing that foreigners are often warned of is 187 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 3: don't talk to local women. To give context to the 188 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 3: time of Nick's death, nine months later, the brutal murder 189 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 3: of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller would occur not far 190 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 3: from where Nick's body was found. We're continuing to try 191 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 3: to track down more documents and information relating to the case, 192 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 3: and we'll return to it in future episodes. 193 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for a break, We'll be back in 194 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: a moment. Just six months prior to Nick Pearson's death, 195 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: an alarming incident happened to another traveler on Katao. In 196 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: July of twenty thirteen. Carla Batel, her sister, and her 197 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: friend Ashley, arrived in Thailand. 198 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 5: A friend of mine and I were in university and 199 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 5: you know, we just were sick of studying. One day 200 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 5: we were just like, let's get the hell out of here. 201 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 5: And we looked at places and I've always wanted to 202 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 5: go to Thailand. It looked like a really fun place, 203 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 5: especially when you're a young early twenties university student. It's 204 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 5: a good destination to choose. And yeah, we got some 205 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 5: pretty decent flights, so it all worked out. 206 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: What was it about Thailand that attracted you? 207 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 5: It just looked so fun, like just the scenery, the beaches, 208 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 5: the blue waters, and it just seemed like such a 209 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 5: beautiful place. And it also had that aspect of you 210 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 5: can go out at night and it's just like a 211 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 5: big party. And also specifically on Koto, we went there 212 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 5: for our diving certifications, So that was a huge thing 213 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 5: for us. We always wanted to go diving. 214 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: And do you remember what the ferry ride the boat 215 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 2: right over to Kotow was, Like, it's. 216 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 5: Pretty exciting, laid back, like everybody is taking in the view. 217 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 5: There's a lot of people on the boat, people are 218 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 5: having drinks. You're just kind of soaking up the sun 219 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 5: and listening to the water. Like pretty nice ride over 220 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 5: to the island. 221 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 2: And then once you get there and you disboard from 222 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 2: the boat, do you remember what your sort of first 223 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 2: impressions of the island. 224 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 5: Were just gorgeous, breathtaking. There was so much to look 225 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 5: at all around you. There was some hills to one 226 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 5: side and you could see all the palm trees and 227 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 5: the ocean. And then as you're walking to accommodations, there's 228 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 5: all kinds of bars and restaurants and all kinds of 229 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 5: things that you want to go check out, Like as 230 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 5: soon as you get there, there's so much to see. 231 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 5: So it's almost like a little village paradise. 232 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 2: When you went there, how long were you planning on stay? 233 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 5: I know we were planning on staying a lot longer 234 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,599 Speaker 5: than we were there, planning on staying there for a 235 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 5: couple nights for sure. 236 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: That first day, Carla, her sister, and her friend Ashley 237 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: go diving a band's diving school. 238 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 5: We had a great time diving. We all got certified. 239 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 5: Nothing about the diving itself was sketchy to me, but 240 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 5: we came back and I just remember we were like, oh, 241 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 5: we got to celebrate. We got our diving certifications. And 242 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 5: we were at the bar right across from bands like 243 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 5: front office, so the front office would be on one 244 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 5: side of the main path and the bar is literally 245 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 5: like right across the path. It was just like laid 246 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,599 Speaker 5: back fun. We were probably watching some fire shows in 247 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 5: the back, having drinks and like meeting all kinds of 248 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 5: new people and people from different countries. That's part of 249 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 5: the fun of traveling. And Sam, who I had met 250 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 5: there in another location in Thailand. I was there with 251 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 5: my sister and my good friend Ashley, and we had 252 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 5: all hung out with him and another couple people in Bangkok. 253 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: Sam is Sam Venning, a British traveler who was in 254 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 1: Bangkok and Katao at the same time as Carla. While 255 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: Sam did not want to be interviewed for the podcast, 256 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: Connor spoke with him and Sam confirmed Carla's story, and. 257 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 5: So anyways, he happened to be on our diving boat, 258 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 5: which was like, oh, we ran into you on this island. 259 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 5: That's pretty cool. So he was part of our group 260 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 5: and we were hanging out, and him and I just 261 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 5: decided to go like walk around because there's so much 262 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 5: to see there, especially at night, and we just wanted 263 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 5: to like go explore a bit, and we like went 264 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 5: walking probably all over Hell's have figure down the path 265 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 5: one way, looking around at everything. Probably had a few 266 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 5: drinks in our system as well. 267 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 2: It sounds to me like this is the type of 268 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: environment where you feel safe going walking around at night 269 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: with a few drinks, right, Like you didn't feel uncomfortable 270 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 2: or to be dangerous or anything, right Like hotel felt 271 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 2: safe for sure. 272 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 5: And I would compare it to I haven't been to 273 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 5: Vegas yet, but I imagine you're walking on the strip. 274 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 5: Everything so lively, there's people all around. That's the main 275 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 5: places people go. It's not like we were walking down 276 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 5: some shady like back alley. It was like we're on 277 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 5: the strip, and like maybe this little area was a 278 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 5: part that was a bit quieter like on that main strip. 279 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 5: We didn't go off the main path or anything. 280 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: Carla and Sam were walking along sorry beach, So. 281 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 5: We're walking around talking, like being probably kind of drunk 282 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 5: and dumb, just being goose walking around and just it's 283 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 5: like it's exciting. You've never seen this place, so just 284 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 5: walking around and seeing what there is to look at 285 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 5: is fun. We made it to what I remember as 286 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 5: like a park area, and it was dark by this time, 287 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 5: and I think things were starting to quiet down. By 288 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 5: the time we got to this park area. Him and 289 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 5: I were literally just sitting side by side talking the 290 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 5: whole time. 291 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 2: And then what happened. 292 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 5: We were sitting side by side and things were pretty 293 00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 5: quiet around the area by then, and I remember getting 294 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 5: just like a little bit of a bad feeling. But 295 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 5: I'm already scared of the dark to begin with, so 296 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 5: I don't know, I kind of brushed it off. I said, oh, well, 297 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 5: I'm with a male. I'm probably fine whatever. And I 298 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 5: remember saying to him though, like maybe we should go back, 299 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 5: it's getting late, and he's like, oh, no, it's fine, 300 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 5: We're good. And I think he maybe was like a 301 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 5: little bit more drunk than I was at that point, 302 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 5: like we were chatting side by side and just had 303 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 5: our feet dangling on the edge of that little ocean runoff, 304 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 5: and all of a sudden, I heard the scuffle of 305 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 5: flip flops from behind us, like literally, like a couple 306 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 5: seconds of the flip flops. I jumped down, like that 307 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 5: was my reaction. And I jumped down and looked back 308 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:53,479 Speaker 5: at the same time, and there was two men in masks. 309 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 5: I jumped down at the same time, saw these two 310 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 5: men in masks and ran towards the main path, I 311 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 5: like under the bridge and just booked it. And I 312 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 5: was screaming and hysterical and crying, and I didn't know 313 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 5: what was going on. I assumed somebody was chasing me, 314 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 5: so I felt like I didn't have time to look back. 315 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 5: So I crawled out of that little ocean runoff, and 316 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 5: I remember seeing a guy like walking on the main path. 317 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 5: I think he was a white guy, like he looked 318 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 5: like a tourist, and I just remember begging him please 319 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 5: help me, like I don't know what's going on. I 320 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 5: don't know what happened to my friend Sam, Like I 321 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 5: did not have any idea what was going on. I 322 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 5: wasn't processing anything. I was just in a panic. As 323 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 5: Sam ran up like a couple minutes later, and he 324 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 5: had blood like rushing down his head, and this guy 325 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 5: on the path like kept walking. It was probably like, oh, 326 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 5: there's some like drunk girl crying or something. 327 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: I don't know. 328 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 5: As Sam ran up, two people took off on a 329 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 5: motorbike pretty much at that exact exact same time, back 330 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 5: down the path towards vance. That's when Sam and I 331 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 5: were like, holy shit, and we just started walking back 332 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 5: to where I was staying off the. 333 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 2: Path and what was Sam's condition? 334 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 5: It was dark. I just remember he was bleeding and 335 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 5: he said that they hit him with a rock. And 336 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 5: I don't remember how we even got back, and it's 337 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 5: probably because we were in shock, but I don't remember 338 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 5: anything that was said. I just remember once we got 339 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,719 Speaker 5: back to where I was staying, Sam had like a 340 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 5: wound on his head. 341 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 2: So you go home, you're with your sister and a friend. 342 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 2: You're not bleeding, but Sam is bleeding. What do you 343 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: tell your sister and friend? 344 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 5: Actually, my sister was already really upset we were gone, 345 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 5: and she was worried and in a panic, and she 346 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 5: was kind of like mad at us for being back 347 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 5: so late. So we didn't really she never knew what happened. 348 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 5: She's quite a bit older than me, so she never 349 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 5: really knew. I told my friend Ashley right away what happens, 350 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 5: and she consoled me. It was just scary too, because 351 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 5: once we got back to where we are staying in 352 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 5: that little cabin thing, it was also off the main path, 353 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 5: so I just couldn't help but think, like, as Sam 354 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 5: and I were walking back, I'm like, are they like 355 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 5: out here somewhere like hiding? Are they watching where we go? 356 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 5: Because they literally took off in the same direction where 357 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 5: we eventually followed, So it's like, are they going to 358 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 5: ambush us again? And I remember not sleeping that night. 359 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 5: Every time I heard a motorbike, I was just like, 360 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 5: are they coming to get us? I didn't feel safe 361 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 5: at that point, and the next morning we knew we 362 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 5: had to get the hell off that islands, like the 363 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 5: first boat off. So oh, that's just what we did. 364 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: So you cut your trip short Kotel after that incident. 365 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah. It's just it's such a 366 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 5: small area that I wouldn't feel safe going out that night. 367 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 5: I would think, for sure, looking into the crowd, they're 368 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 5: in here somewhere they'll recognize me, maybe they want to 369 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 5: get us again. It's just that small of an area 370 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 5: that if there's two assailants out there, they're gonna be 371 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 5: somewhere in the crowd. And Kotow's a small island, but 372 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 5: that strips even smaller. It's like think of an average street, 373 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 5: but like there's an ocean behind it. In bars, it's 374 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 5: like you're gonna run into people that you've seen, Like, 375 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 5: no matter what, that really sort of shit out of me. 376 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 2: Did you get a look at the two assailants. 377 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 5: I saw the mask for a split second. I remember 378 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 5: saying to myself and like telling other people it was 379 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 5: like those anonymous masks, because I had never seen be 380 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 5: for Vendetta at that point, so I just described it 381 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 5: as like, oh, it's like an anonymous mask. I googled 382 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 5: Guy Fawkes mask and Thailand, and turns out in Thailand 383 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 5: there was a lot of protests. I'm not sure the 384 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 5: politics of it, but a lot of those masks were 385 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 5: used in the protests. 386 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: A side note about the political situation in Thailand. From 387 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: November twenty thirteen through May twenty fourteen, there were several 388 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: anti government protests in Thailand. The crisis eventually resulted in 389 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: the removal of the incumbent Prime Minister Akudreta and the 390 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: establishment of a military hunta. Could one of the protesters 391 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: from that time have been involved with Karla and Sam's 392 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: assault or could it have been someone posing as a protester. 393 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 5: When the two men took off, I definitely saw brown 394 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 5: Asian looking men. I can't really describe anything else, but 395 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:58,959 Speaker 5: it all happened so quickly. 396 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 2: You got as you heard the sound and looked behind 397 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: you was there were two people with masks walking up 398 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 2: on you and they were definitely locals. 399 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, for sure. 400 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 2: Do you even contemplate filing a police report? 401 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,719 Speaker 5: I remember I seriously contemplated filing a police report. It 402 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 5: wasn't like, oh, well, I'm just gonna move on, Like 403 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 5: I was like, holy shit, what can I do about this? 404 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 5: And I know I explored my options, and I don't 405 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 5: know if it was because the police station was closed 406 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 5: or if I googled like Thailand police, like can you 407 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 5: trust them? When I ultimately came to the decision of like, no, 408 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 5: it's better for me to get off this island as 409 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 5: soon as possible. So yeah, that's what we did. 410 00:22:52,840 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break. Connor continued to speak 411 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: with Carla about her traumatic experience on katal What happens. 412 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 2: A year later. 413 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 5: I had told this story to like a lot of 414 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 5: people just because it was crazy, and I think I 415 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 5: was also dealing with some like PTSD. Like literally, like 416 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 5: the night we came home to Canada, I remember going 417 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 5: out with my friends and somebody snuck up on us 418 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 5: and like scared the shit up out of me. I 419 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 5: started crying and like going into like a full blown 420 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 5: panic attack. But anyways, so a friend of mine from 421 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,959 Speaker 5: high school, I think I like told this story at 422 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 5: like a party or something, and he sent me a 423 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 5: news article saying I just remember he said, I think 424 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 5: you should see this, and it it was about Hannah 425 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 5: and David, and I remember like opening the article and 426 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 5: like seeing that spot. I was like, holy shit, this 427 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 5: is too crazy to be real. Because I saw the 428 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 5: spot and I was like, that's literally where Sam and 429 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 5: I were sitting. There's the little like walkway bridge, and 430 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 5: I ran under that walkway bridge, and there's pictures of 431 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 5: like two body bigs in that area where we were attacked. 432 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 5: And once I was sure that was the same place, 433 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 5: I just remember I started violently shaking. I couldn't stop 434 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 5: moving my body. I think I went into shock again. 435 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 5: The realization of what happened to me and Sam, that 436 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 5: they probably would have tried to murder us really set in. 437 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 5: Once I saw the two body bigs in that area, 438 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 5: I was like, holy shit. And Sam and I got 439 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 5: in touch. We just talked about how close to death 440 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 5: we were without really realizing it. We never really talked 441 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 5: about it. We didn't see each other again since that night. 442 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 5: He eventually left back to where he was staying, and 443 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 5: we never like truly talked about what happened until the 444 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 5: deaths of Hannah and David. 445 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 2: When you hear people talk about Kotel Now and the strange, bizarre, 446 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: unexplained deaths and people express skepticism about one, some all 447 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 2: of them, what goes through your mind. 448 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 5: It's a story that sounds too crazy to be real. 449 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 5: I'm sure a lot of skepticism comes from a lack 450 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 5: of understanding of all the details and all the puzzle pieces. 451 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 5: But I think some people write it off just because 452 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 5: it's too crazy to be real. It doesn't sound like 453 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 5: it's likely, especially with the term mafia being used. I 454 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 5: think people have a lot of skepticism towards that because 455 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 5: mafia is owned around like there's some sort of like 456 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 5: organized serial killer crime group on that island, when really 457 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 5: the term mafia is just like used to describe the 458 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 5: fact that there's a very powerful family on that island, 459 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 5: which is factual. And I'm not saying I know all 460 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 5: the ins and outs of like what's going on there, 461 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 5: but there's definitely something strange with that family. And if 462 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,239 Speaker 5: one of them wanted to be like a murderer or 463 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 5: like get away with whatever they wanted to like rape 464 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 5: Westerners or locals, their position in the family really sets 465 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 5: them up to get away with it. 466 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 2: It sounds to me like these deaths that you think 467 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 2: it's entirely plausible and likely that some of them are 468 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 2: the result of a really powerful group of people who 469 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 2: run the island committing murders or turning a blind eye 470 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 2: to people committing murders in protecting essentially their own tarth. 471 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 5: Yes, it's definitely changed the way I travel. I love 472 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 5: to travel, but I I'll say I'm scared like a 473 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 5: lot of places, Like I'm in the midst of trying 474 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,239 Speaker 5: to plan a destination wedding and I'm i don't know 475 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 5: a little bit, a little bit worried about certain places. 476 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 5: I want to have a balance of being safe and 477 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 5: also like not letting it hinder my ability to travel. 478 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 5: But it does worry me. That will never leave the 479 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 5: back of my mind. 480 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 2: Listen, what you had happened to you is frightening and tragic. 481 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 2: To see the exact location where two people a year 482 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 2: later were murdered in the exact same spot where you 483 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 2: had that incident is another layer of trauma on the 484 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 2: trauma that you already experienced personally. 485 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure, and definitely have wrote off what happened 486 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 5: to me within that year. It was like, Wow, that 487 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 5: was scary, but you know, I'm moving on with my life. 488 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 5: But once Hannah and David died, it was like a 489 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 5: whole rush of new trauma. 490 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: Oh. 491 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 5: I just feel very much like I literally could have 492 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 5: been Hannah, and I've because of the Internet, I've accidentally 493 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 5: seen crime scene photos and they're just horrific, and I'm 494 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 5: thankful every day that I'm still here. But I was 495 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 5: a close call. 496 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: More on that next time. If you have any information 497 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: about Nick Pearson, please contact us at producers at katidash 498 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: Studios dot com for more information and relevant photos, follow 499 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. Death Island is 500 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,959 Speaker 1: produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Connor Powell, Andrew Arnow, Jeff Shane, 501 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: Chris Cacaro, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and 502 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeff Toois. Music by Vanicor Music. Death 503 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: Island is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For 504 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 505 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.