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Speaker 1: Welcome to tonight's classic episode Lick anybody else. The three

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Speaker 1: of us constantly wonder how can we build a secret

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Speaker 1: moon base? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yes, keeps me up nights. Well, yeah, and why not

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Speaker 2: build a secret moon base?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: I mean if we can get there?

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Speaker 3: Well, and if we were to build a secret moon base,

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Speaker 3: what protections could it be put in place? So a

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Speaker 3: portal to Hell doesn't open up? And it ended up

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Speaker 3: like the event Horizon, not to be confused with Project Horizon.

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Speaker 1: Which is the subject of our classic episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, if you're the Department of Navy,

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Speaker 2: the Department of the Army, it's late nineteen fifty nine,

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Speaker 2: You're like, man, how are we gonna put a base

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Speaker 2: up there? If we actually do this, they gotta.

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Speaker 3: Get that moon on lock. You gotta lock that down.

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Speaker 1: If only there were some sort of space force, dare

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Speaker 1: I see?

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Speaker 3: You know it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: We originally recorded this in I want to say, July

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, and not to brush our shoulders too hard,

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Speaker 1: but on December of twenty nineteen, the US created Space.

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Speaker 3: Force Space Force. Let's dive right in.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want.

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Speaker 2: You to know.

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Speaker 4: A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Welcome back to the show. I'm sitting entirely too

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Speaker 2: low right now. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 3: Pump up that chair, Matt. My name is Noah.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined, as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer, Paul Mission Controlled Decan, who just returned

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Speaker 1: from mysterious adventures. Thanks for coming back, Paul. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are you. You are here, and that makes this

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. So how's everybody

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Speaker 1: doing today? Before we get into this, I spoke with

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Speaker 1: Michigan Control a little bit before we went back on

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Speaker 1: the air. I asked him if he was okay. He

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Speaker 1: gave me a thumbs up. Paul, we still on thumbs upstatus.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Just for the record, we re recorded this intro. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many times we can ask Paul

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Speaker 1: to give me a thumbs up.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's tired of it. How many times has

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Speaker 2: this happened? Right, I mean infinite number of times, right,

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Speaker 2: all the generations. Well, I was just going to tell you, guys,

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Speaker 2: I for the first time put some glow in the

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Speaker 2: dark planets up above the ceiling where my son sleeps,

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Speaker 2: and I did that yesterday. And the one thing that's

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Speaker 2: missing from that, it's got all the planets. Pluto's not included, remember,

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Speaker 2: but it does not have the moon.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have the moon. There's a really cool moon

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Speaker 1: globe you can get, and there's also a glow in

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Speaker 1: the dark three dimensional moon sphere we could get for him.

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Speaker 2: That one is really awesome, and I'm looking to get

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Speaker 2: that one.

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Speaker 1: Day a day that doesn't break the bank.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because these things were real, real cheap.

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Speaker 3: I want to get one of those cool starry night

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Speaker 3: projector things that you just put like on the floor

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Speaker 3: and it just projects this cool galaxy onto the ceiling

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Speaker 3: all around your room. And I'm thirty five, so I'm

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Speaker 3: into stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: That actually sounds amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love night projections. I have some stuff like

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Speaker 1: that at the place where I currently live.

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Speaker 2: Oh, they're using my other residents.

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Speaker 1: Yes, a place where I live, which is a real place.

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Speaker 1: How are things going where you live? What do you

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Speaker 1: think about space exploration today? We're exploring a strange story

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Speaker 1: about the moon, and we'd like to hear from you. So,

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Speaker 1: if the spirit so moves you while you listen to today's show,

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Speaker 1: feel free to pause it. We'll be here when you

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Speaker 1: get back and give us a call with your thoughts directly,

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Speaker 1: your visceral hot takes. You're off the cuff, stuff that

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't say to anyone other than us, and your

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Speaker 1: fellow listeners are.

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Speaker 3: Like a machine facsimile of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, your innermost thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Spill them, yeah, along with your social Security number, a

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Speaker 1: list of your fears, your blood type.

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Speaker 2: But really we need your innermost thoughts to fuel our

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Speaker 2: machine or infernal machine we've created here.

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Speaker 3: Try to keep them limited to the three minute mark, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you know, if you want to or just

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Speaker 2: leave a bunch of messages, that's fine.

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Speaker 1: That's Matt's favorite thing when you hit our call in

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Speaker 1: line and leave fifteen messages because he gets a notification.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we mentioned one person, I think on the last episode,

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Speaker 2: but that person hasn't called back again yet. Maybe she

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Speaker 2: knew we were talking about her, you know, fourth dimensionally Jennifer.

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Speaker 1: Right, I maybe feel free to keep calling Jennifer. But

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Speaker 1: if you want to take a page out of Jennifer's

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Speaker 1: book and share some information, with your fellow listeners. You're

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Speaker 1: probably wondering if you just pick up the phone and

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Speaker 1: start talking, almost you have to hit a numerical code first.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's one eight three three std WYTK. That's just

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Speaker 2: stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: Every time we say that number, it feels like there's

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Speaker 1: going to be an AM radio talk show tag on

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Speaker 1: where it's like in the money down the moon. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: the moon. We have been there, not the four of

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Speaker 1: us personally, and odds are not most of us listening,

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Speaker 1: but our species has. It's pretty easy to prove this

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Speaker 1: is the case. However, it is completely absolutely understandable. I

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Speaker 1: would argue that folks could be skeptical about this claim.

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Speaker 1: After all, the timeline's really weird, so our entire species,

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Speaker 1: of everybody, our entire species. One country landed people on

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Speaker 1: the Moon, and they only did it six times, and

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Speaker 1: they only did it between nineteen sixty nine to nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy two, at which point they just stopped.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for no reason other than it's really really expensive

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Speaker 2: and there's not much going on up there officially.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's pretty it's pretty dangerous, right, and it's a

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Speaker 1: dangerous expedition. One of the most dangerous trips those people

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Speaker 1: would have ever taken in their lives. Today's episode is

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Speaker 1: about the idea that we did not stop going to

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Speaker 1: the moon so.

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Speaker 2: And that perhaps of the reason we went up there

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Speaker 2: was not what was told of the public and.

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Speaker 1: The world exactly exactly. So to get to get our

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Speaker 1: heads around this first, we have to start with the facts.

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Speaker 1: So here they are and side note, we would love

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Speaker 1: to hear any We'd love to hear any counter arguments

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Speaker 1: about this, because I am certain that some of us

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Speaker 1: listening as soon as they heard me say, yeah, we went.

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Speaker 2: To the Moon and it's pretty easy. You're right, right, Well,

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Speaker 2: it's a show that we got there.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we will have some examples or some arguments for

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Speaker 1: why that is the case, and we want to hear

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Speaker 1: your arguments against it. So boom, we're back in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. This is the Moon, what we did, and

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Speaker 1: how we did it. It's nineteen fifties. The United States

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Speaker 1: is locked in a race with the Soviet Union for

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Speaker 1: domination over everything, especially space.

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Speaker 2: The new Frontier. And you know, this is all just

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Speaker 2: more Cold War stuff. After we as in the Soviet

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Speaker 2: Union in the United States were victorious during World War Two.

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Speaker 2: We're trying to figure out who is the superpower. And

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Speaker 2: then on January tewod nineteen fifty nine, there's this thing

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Speaker 2: called the Soviet Luna I spacecraft and it made the

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Speaker 2: first official flyby of the Moon at a distance of

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Speaker 2: three thousand, seven hundred and twenty five miles. That's nine

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Speaker 2: hundred and ninety four kilometers from the Moon's surface, so

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Speaker 2: it's that far away from the Moon. But again, this

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Speaker 2: is a huge achievement because is the first time we've

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Speaker 2: ever gotten a piece of human machinery that far out

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Speaker 2: to the Moon and then successfully essentially looked at it

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Speaker 2: with a piece of technology that we created.

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Speaker 3: On September twelfth, nineteen fifty nine, they landed the second

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Speaker 3: lie To mission.

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Speaker 1: And it's strange because you'll hear that described is they

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Speaker 1: impacted the Moon. Yeah, which we have to remember for

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Speaker 1: the time. It was a really big and amazing deal

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Speaker 1: just to be able to hit that moving target.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's amazing. The math involved is so far

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Speaker 2: beyond my comprehension that it's crazy that they could even

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Speaker 2: attempt to do it.

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Speaker 1: And then on May twenty fifth, nineteen sixty one, severely

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Speaker 1: freaked out by the success of the USSR, President John F.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy issues a challenge and his speech to Congress when

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Speaker 1: he says, I believe that this nation should commit itself

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Speaker 1: to achieve the goal before this decade is out. I've

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Speaker 1: landed a man on the moon and retalitied him safely

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Speaker 1: to Earth.

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Speaker 2: And see that was right after one of doctor feel

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Speaker 2: Good's injections of what we now know was methamphetamines.

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Speaker 3: Is that right, yes, Kennedy, Yes, Now we made him

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Speaker 3: talk like that.

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Speaker 2: It was all it was exactly what it was, less

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Speaker 2: the accent and just more of the.

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Speaker 3: Energy the paths.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was already there.

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Speaker 3: He was already on the moon looking looking down.

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Speaker 1: They were like, certain income inequality remains a problem. The

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Speaker 1: nation is embroiled in racial disparity. Intention and he's like the.

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Speaker 2: Moon, the moon, And also where's the doctor.

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Speaker 1: Where's the dye called Marylyn? Uh? Yes, this leads to

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Speaker 1: a series of things. We're going to walk through him

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Before we had the Apollo program, we had

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Speaker 1: something called the US Ranger Program. This ran from sixty

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Speaker 1: one to sixty five. It sent nine missions.

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Speaker 3: To the Moon.

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Speaker 1: There were no people on them. This was all machinery.

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Speaker 1: In sixty two, the Ranger four reached the lunar surface,

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Speaker 1: but it impacted, it crashed, and it wasn't able to

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Speaker 1: send any data back. So we just managed to make

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Speaker 1: a very expensive bullet essentially.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and a small crater. But hey, congratulations, we had

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Speaker 2: an impact. Right, That's how it would be written in

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Speaker 2: some kind of board room where they're having Hey, look,

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Speaker 2: we made an impact.

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Speaker 1: We made an impact. We literally made an impact. Two

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Speaker 1: years later, Ranger seven captures and sends back four thousand

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Speaker 1: photos of the Moon before it hits the surface, and

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Speaker 1: also goes to put The next big step was to

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Speaker 1: land something without crashing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, good idea. Again, much more difficult than you could

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Speaker 2: ever imagine. However, here's the thing. The Soviets, again like

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Speaker 2: they did before, beat us out. The Americans, of course,

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Speaker 2: touching down the lunar nine. So they're at the ninth

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Speaker 2: iteration of the Luna at this point on February third,

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six. But here's the thing though, the American side,

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Speaker 2: again of this Cold War, we weren't very far behind

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Speaker 2: the surveyor one mission. This is a new craft or

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Speaker 2: new I guess part of the program. It made a

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Speaker 2: controlled landing on the Moon about three months later. So

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Speaker 2: here we are nineteen sixty six. Both the Soviets and

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Speaker 2: the United States have landed things successfully there.

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Speaker 1: And this all leads up to the big ticket item,

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Speaker 1: the big tent, right, the big temple, the milestone of

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Speaker 1: lunar exploration, which is landing a spacecraft with people on

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Speaker 1: it on the lunar surface.

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Speaker 2: And hopefully getting them back to Earth somehow.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's gonna be hasty.

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Speaker 3: Let's not be hasty, one step at a time.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like Gatige. You know, how far are

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Speaker 1: you going to get if you spend all if you

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Speaker 1: save all your energy for this swim back. This was

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Speaker 1: way before Gattiko, but it's a good film. All these

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Speaker 1: steps were leading to this, and it was a bloody path.

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Speaker 1: It was not a situation where it's all angel farts

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Speaker 1: and trumpets and harps and stuff. Tragedy struck during a

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Speaker 1: test on January twenty seventh, nineteen sixty seven, a fire

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Speaker 1: swept through the Apollo command module, killing three astronauts, and

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Speaker 1: NASA name the test Apollo one to honor the crew.

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Speaker 1: And then we get to the manned lunar landings. They

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Speaker 1: all take place again between nineteen sixty nine and nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy two. They're all part of the Apollo program. They

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Speaker 1: all come from the US. The most popular one, the

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Speaker 1: one that changed history forever, was the July twentieth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty nine moon landing, when Neil Armstrong and longtime friend

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Speaker 1: of the show Buzz Doctor Rendezvous Aldrin land on the

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Speaker 1: lunar surface. It's followed by five other crude missions. The

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Speaker 1: astronauts who first touch on the Moon's surface have to

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Speaker 1: go way out of the way. This is this is

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Speaker 1: so dangerous. They have to travel three hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: three thousand kilometers roughly just to reach the Moon. They

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Speaker 1: have to survive landing, have to survive being on the Moon.

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Speaker 1: They have to make it.

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Speaker 2: They have to like take off from the Moon.

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Speaker 1: They have to take off from the Moon, which people

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Speaker 1: forget you to get and then they have to make

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Speaker 1: it back to Earth preferably alive.

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Speaker 2: You miss a step. They got a rendezvous after taking

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Speaker 2: off from the Moon with the other spacecraft that's going

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Speaker 2: around the Moon. Right, docs successfully then make it back.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point. So you can see just from

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Speaker 1: all the all the dangers involved there why people would

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Speaker 1: be skeptical, especially when again the argument is that there

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Speaker 1: are so many problems on this planet that we can

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Speaker 1: solve through mundane means. You know, why are we sending

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Speaker 1: just six missions to the Moon and quitting? Why did

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Speaker 1: we quit?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: So, there have been tons and tons of uncrude landings

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Speaker 1: which persist in the modern day. And as you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: this way less risky, way less expensive. And now we

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Speaker 1: get to the question of how we know that we,

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Speaker 1: being humanity, got there some way. There are a number

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Speaker 1: of ways to prove human beings visited the Moon. First,

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Speaker 1: we have pieces of it, with literal pieces of it.

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Speaker 1: It's illegal for us to buy them, because we're apparently

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Speaker 1: not cool enough. But thanks for writing back, NASA. But

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Speaker 1: humanity has.

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Speaker 2: Have you, guys ever seen that movie of Hollow eighteen?

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Speaker 3: I have not is the same as Apollo thirteen, thanks.

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Speaker 2: The almost almost the same thing. It's just like five

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Speaker 2: missions later. Five more so so, Apollo seventeen is the

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Speaker 2: last man mission to the Moon that occurred. This one

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Speaker 2: is about the next one and what they find and

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Speaker 2: uh less spoiler alert, there's some naughty moon rocks up there.

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Speaker 2: That's all I'll.

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Speaker 1: Say, naughty moon rose. I guess so endearor when you

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Speaker 1: describe stuff is.

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Speaker 3: Not moon rocks is like a weed thing.

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Speaker 2: Oh it is.

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Speaker 3: It's like some really concentrated like weed thing. Oh well,

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Speaker 3: I heard in rap songs. I only know that's.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, it's not that okay, But anyway, watch is it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So, astronauts working for NASA brought back about eight

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Speaker 1: hundred and forty two pounds of moon rocks rocks from

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Speaker 1: the lunar surface for scientists to study. Although it would

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Speaker 1: be great if it were eight hundred and forty two

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Speaker 1: pounds of marijuana that they brought back. The thing about

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Speaker 1: these rocks is the oldest The oldest ones are four

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Speaker 1: point five billion years old, which makes them two hundred

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Speaker 1: million years older than the oldest rocks on Earth. WHOA,

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Speaker 1: So it's a pretty good argument. You could also say, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe they just collected eight hundred and forty two pounds

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Speaker 1: of meteorites that landed on Earth. But the moon rocks

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Speaker 1: have characteristics that are unique to them. And then there's

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Speaker 1: the other idea, which is that you can see stuff

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Speaker 1: reflected on the Moon. You can see the retroflectors, you

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Speaker 1: can see the flag still there, which is a little

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Speaker 1: ghost on our part, But how inspiring anyhow. These are

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Speaker 1: just some of the things that you can see on

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Speaker 1: the Moon and so far in twenty nineteen. This is

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Speaker 1: the official narrative, at least, the very broad strokes of

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Speaker 1: our species collective quest to reach the Moon. But what

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Speaker 1: if there's more to the story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what if instead of faking the moon landing the

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Speaker 2: way so many of us at least have pondered, what

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Speaker 2: if there's more to the mission than what the public

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Speaker 2: had been led to believe. What if we had a

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Speaker 2: whole other ulterior motive just by even imagining going up

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Speaker 2: to the Moon. And what if we did something crazy.

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Speaker 3: We'll explore that concept when we get back from a

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Speaker 3: quick sponsor brank years where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 1: We absolutely planned more stuff. By we at this point,

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Speaker 1: we don't mean the human species. We mean the US government.

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Speaker 1: We planned a ton of very strange things we did

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Speaker 1: not tell anyone. We would like to reveal one of

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Speaker 1: those plans on the air today, something called Project Horizon.

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Speaker 1: All the way back in nineteen fifty eight or fifty nine,

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Speaker 1: ten or so, ten or more years before the first

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Speaker 1: lunar landing, Uncle Sam was already planning to build a

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Speaker 1: permanent lunar base. They listed the requirements.

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Speaker 3: Like this, So here's the quote. The lunar outpost is

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Speaker 3: required to develop and protect potential United States interests on

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Speaker 3: the Moon. To develop techniques in Moon based surveillance of

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Speaker 3: the Earth and space and communications relay and operations on

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Speaker 3: the surface of the Moon. To serve as a base

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Speaker 3: for exploration of the Moon, for future exploration into space,

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Speaker 3: and for military operations on the Moon if required. And

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Speaker 3: to support scientific investigation on the Moon. Very very moon

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Speaker 3: based document here.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but again, we're talking about having a military,

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Speaker 2: like a ready to go military outpost on the Moon

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Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty eight.

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Speaker 3: Gees. I mean, that's like a pretty big leap. But

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Speaker 3: I guess anytime we're conquering anything, we're doing it for

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Speaker 3: military purposes, right, Like why bother sending humans to the

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Speaker 3: Moon just so we can have the bragging rights if

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Speaker 3: we're not going to actually use it to blow people

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Speaker 3: up in some way, right.

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Speaker 2: I guess so. And just to give you a little

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Speaker 2: background on what we're reading from, this is an unclassified

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Speaker 2: secret document that we found on History dot Army dot mill.

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Speaker 2: It's entitled Project Horizon, Volume one, Summary and Supporting Considerations,

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Speaker 2: and we have a little more about the background of

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Speaker 2: this project.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Now, I know a lot of us are

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Speaker 1: titillated by the the titling there. Yeah, if you are,

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Speaker 1: if you're still awake after hearing that title. This was

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Speaker 1: the brainchild of a Lieutenant General Arthur G. Trudeau, who

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Speaker 1: was the US Army's chief of Research and Development. The

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Speaker 1: project had two components. First, the publicly acknowledged idea, which

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Speaker 1: is very very star trek, very post scarcity economy.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is, to boldly.

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Speaker 1: Go where no one has gone before, to explore space

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Speaker 1: for the betterment of mankind, to develop new and better technology.

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Speaker 2: Again for the betterment of mankind, right right right.

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Speaker 1: To explore strange new places right but below the surface.

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Speaker 1: The true purpose of Project Horizon and many similar projects

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Speaker 1: in the you know, the secret thing, what people said

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Speaker 1: when all the doors were closed and the monitors were

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Speaker 1: turned off, was to create a situation where they could

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Speaker 1: have military superiority in the Cold War, military superiority in

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Speaker 1: space through through nuclear weaponry. They weren't going to just

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Speaker 1: put people on the Moon. They wanted to put nukes,

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Speaker 1: there by permanently occupying the Moon, and more importantly, by

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Speaker 1: getting there before Soviet forces did. The US could say

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Speaker 1: we own this now, and the Moon and all that

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Speaker 1: it holds or any use that it has is now ours,

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Speaker 1: and this could be useful on a multitude of fronts. First,

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Speaker 1: you have in many ways, you have the potential for

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Speaker 1: an obscene level of air superiority. Oh yeah, you can

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Speaker 1: also restrict space from You can restrict anyone from accessing space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's huge. You've got a moon base on that

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Speaker 2: thing that's just looming over the planet at all times.

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Speaker 2: Your you can observe anything that the Moon can see.

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Speaker 2: You can then see, right, which is a little difficult

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Speaker 2: to plan for. Well, I guess not really.

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Speaker 3: You could.

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Speaker 2: You could do all of your all of your research somehow,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, underground or outside of the Moon's view somehow.

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Speaker 1: Right, Radiation shielding would have to be a big part

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Speaker 1: you could. You could also, for example, make a tremendous

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Speaker 1: amount of money because you would have a monopoly on

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Speaker 1: lunar travel. There you go, and millionaires existed back in

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Speaker 1: the in the fifties as well as the sixties, so

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Speaker 1: it's quite conceivable that they would pay any price to

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Speaker 1: get to the Moon if they were allowed to. The

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Speaker 1: army could also have massive, massive surveillance capabilities. There would

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Speaker 1: be no such thing as a secret area of the

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Speaker 1: USSR unless it was very deep, but even then you

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Speaker 1: could see it being constructed.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it just feels like there wouldn't be as

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Speaker 3: much of a race kind of situation if there wasn't

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Speaker 3: some military angle at play, right right, it seems like

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Speaker 3: any time that the US is like, oh, we better

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Speaker 3: catch up with the Russians because they don't want the

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Speaker 3: Russians to have the upper hand, it's less of a

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Speaker 3: reputation thing, and to me it seems like more of

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Speaker 3: like a strategic thing.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean, think about this last bit that

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Speaker 2: we were talking about the nukes. If you had nukes

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Speaker 2: on the lunar surface so they could be launched, let's say,

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Speaker 2: with a dead man's hand kind of situation, where if Washington,

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Speaker 2: DC gets attacked, if New York gets attacked, if all

404
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Speaker 2: of it gets wiped off the face of the Earth

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Speaker 2: through Soviet missiles, then there are still lunar nukes coming

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Speaker 2: at you, right, no matter what you do to the

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Speaker 2: United States mainland or any of its other outposts. There

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Speaker 2: still will be nukes on the way. They might take

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Speaker 2: a while, but they're headed your direction.

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Speaker 1: That's it. I mean, that's a very very good point,

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Speaker 1: because even if every single part of the US security

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Speaker 1: structures disabled, they're going to have a tough time hitting

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Speaker 1: the moon. Right, you can also vastly improve radio communications,

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Speaker 1: at least for the time. So it's clear that we

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Speaker 1: can see this. It's clear that it has advantages, and

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Speaker 1: I enjoy what you pointed out, and no one which

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Speaker 1: is I would say, not just any endeavor like this,

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Speaker 1: but all all wars and expansions are about controlling resource

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Speaker 1: and access, you know, So it's not out of the

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Speaker 1: goodness of their hearts that they planned this. The Pentagon said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's let's think about this, let's figure it out. So

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Speaker 1: they turned Project Horizon over to one of the only

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Speaker 1: people they felt qualified to study its feasibility. A person

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Speaker 1: will be familiar to many of our longtime listeners today,

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Speaker 1: that is Werner von Braun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so the Pentagon turned Projectorizon over to Werner von Braun,

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Speaker 3: and at this point he was the head of the

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Speaker 3: US Army Ballistic Missile Agency, abbma personal favorite. It's almost abba. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's neither here nor there. But von Braun was able

430
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Speaker 3: to assign the study to one of his German colleagues,

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Speaker 3: who also had been brought to the United States as

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Speaker 3: part of Operation paper Clip, which we've discussed on the show.

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Speaker 3: I think it's one of your personal favorites, Math, I'm

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Speaker 3: not mistaken.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I hopefully it's a show favorite because it's just

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Speaker 2: one of those weird things in history that occurred that

437
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Speaker 2: we don't like to think about.

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Speaker 3: Really happened. Quick little summary.

439
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: Germany's put One of Germany's most important and least known

440
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: at the time popular exports post World War Two was

441
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: former Nazi scientists.

442
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, minds, great minds that put together the technology that

443
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: was used to overcome most of the rest of the

444
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 2: world's military might.

445
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: The US got them, in Russia got them too. They

446
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: were also the Cold War had already begun, so Operation

447
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: paper Clip was the secret program to spirit these scientists

448
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 1: away without the US public learning about it.

449
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 2: And verner Ron Brown was one of those men.

450
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 3: And one of his men, His top man for the

451
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 3: job was a man by the name of hines Ham

452
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,479
Speaker 3: and coel and Over the next ninety days. This gentleman

453
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 3: divided up to projects in the pieces and assign each

454
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: part to a military department that was most suited, most

455
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: well suited to study it. The ABMA would evaluate the

456
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 3: type of rockets and space vehicles that would be required,

457
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 3: and then the Signal Corps would study the radio and

458
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: communications needs, and the core of engineers would propose the

459
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 3: best methods for constructing, maintaining, and expanding a habitable outpost

460
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 3: on said moon.

461
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 2: And see their compartmentalizing here. They're very intelligent and how

462
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: they're doing this. None of the components know necessarily exactly

463
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 2: what the others are doing. There's Bob Lazaar, of all

464
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: people that we've discussed on this show before, a guy

465
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: who purportedly worked at Area fifty one or near Area

466
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 2: fifty one. I think it's site for something like that

467
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 2: that's near Area fifty one. He recently went on the

468
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan Show and he was discussing particularly this the

469
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 2: compartmentalization of studying something like this. How you'll get basically

470
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 2: a title kind of what we what we see when

471
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 2: we look in the DARPA website. You get a title

472
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: of a project and a one paragraph that tells you

473
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: what that thing is, so you'll know that. Okay, someone

474
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: over here in this project is studying the propulsion system.

475
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: Somebody over here is studying aerodynamics, you know, part of this.

476
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 2: If you're gonna, let's say, create a flying saucer. In

477
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 2: this case Cole Cole he's he's doing this exact thing

478
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: with building a moon base.

479
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: Right right, And he was an aeronautical engineer who made

480
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: the first forays into the design of the rocket that

481
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: we now know as the Saturn one. Wow, you cannot

482
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: buy your own Saturn one again. Thanks for writing back, NASA.

483
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: I was just curious. But you can buy a top

484
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: notch lego model based on it.

485
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 2: And the company Saturn did make some fine vehicles for

486
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: a while there.

487
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: Funny you mentioned that, Yeah, I wreck two of them.

488
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: It's true. They will keep you alive. But back to horizon.

489
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: So the final report, which was titled Project Rise in

490
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: US Army Study for the Establishment of a Lunar Military Post,

491
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: was given to the Pentagon in June of nineteen fifty

492
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: nine in two volumes. The first was a summary that

493
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: said presented the main conclusions of what we want to

494
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: do the high level thing right. The one the execs

495
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: would read. And the second gives a longer and more

496
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: detailed analysis, and we'll tell you what was in this

497
00:27:50,720 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: report after a word from our sponsors. Okay, so first

498
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: things first, this is written during the Cold War. This

499
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: is top secret. If you told most of the world

500
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: how we're going to take over the Moon, We're going

501
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: to put nuclear weapons on it, you know, USA, USA,

502
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: the world would not react well. So they emphasize the secrecy,

503
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: but also they emphasize the grave nature of the problem.

504
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: This is very This is phrased as a inevitable, indeed,

505
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: the only path to salvation for the United States or

506
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: to continued stability. And they say the political implications of

507
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: our failure to be first in space are a matter

508
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: of public record. This failure has reflected adversely on United

509
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: States scientific and political leadership. To some extent, we have

510
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: recovered the loss. However, once having been second best in

511
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: the eyes of the world's population, we are not now

512
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: in a position to afford being second on any other

513
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: major step in space. The results of failure to first

514
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: place man on an extra terrestrial base will raise grave

515
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: political questions and at the same time lower US prestige

516
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: and influence.

517
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: There you go. I imagine a general perhaps pacing back

518
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: and forth again in a giant room filled with officials

519
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: and scientists and other military personnel, just giving that speech.

520
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: I get a very doctor strange love vibe out of

521
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: this because this sort of answers the question that I

522
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: posed originally, which is, why would you focus on the

523
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: Moon when there are so many things we could fix

524
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: here on Earth? And they've they've changed the nature of

525
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: the argument to say that if we want to fix

526
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: anything on Earth, we have to forge the respect you

527
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: know we have. Yeah, thank you, thank you for the

528
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: respect we have to we have to get to the Moon.

529
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: We've been number two on several of these other big things,

530
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 2: the first satellite, the first successful you know, lunar orbiting.

531
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: First person in space to return.

532
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

533
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: I mean they're like, guys, we need that base.

534
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: Now, and who knows how many other cosmonauts were just

535
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: the first people in space who didn't make it back, right.

536
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

537
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: So then the report turns the question whether a crude

538
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: moon base with actual people on it is something that

539
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: we can afford and something that we could actually do.

540
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

541
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: So if money is no object, can we think our

542
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: way around this? If money is an object. The conversation

543
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: always turns to it eventually. Then how much money is

544
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: too much? How much is just enough?

545
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the first when you're thinking about something as

546
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: high level and conceptual as this, the first thing you

547
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 2: do is, well, if we were going to use everything

548
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: that's available to us right now, all the technology, how

549
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: much would it cost? Right, that's the that's one of

550
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: the major things. How much would it cost using this stuff?

551
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: And would that make sense for us? It made the assumption,

552
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 2: like when it was first starting out this Project Horizon,

553
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: that they would be able to use existing technology to

554
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: do everything, at least in the beginning.

555
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: Yes, in the beginning, that's where everything seems so great,

556
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: you know, in the beginning.

557
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. They're already working on some technology

558
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: that wasn't currently available. It was basically the R and

559
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 2: D side of what we imagine propulsion will be. Like

560
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: the dude Cole col Coel whatever, whoever's heman, he was

561
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 2: working on a liquid hydrogen rocket, a liquid hydrogen fueled

562
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 2: rocket that could potentially get us there. And again they're

563
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: going back to this idea that we have to make

564
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: the entire thing modular, starting out really small, so the

565
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: first time we land there on the moon and we're

566
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: going to start an outpost, we put a tiny little

567
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: thing down there that's not going to be fully functional. Essentially,

568
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: it's just going to be a little outpost that we're

569
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: going to continue to build each time we go back.

570
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: We're not just going to get there and plant a

571
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 2: base on the moon.

572
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: And we're also not going to throw anything away. If

573
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: we can help it, it'll all eventually become a piece

574
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: of this.

575
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: Outpost, right exactly.

576
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: So the idea here is that they could start getting

577
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: their collective ducks in a row in nineteen sixty four,

578
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: and they even thought about how this would be designed.

579
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: The basic building block for the outpost would be these

580
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: metal cylindrical tanks three meters or ten feet in diameter

581
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: and twenty feet or six point one meters long, and

582
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: two nuclear reactors would also be built there. They're building

583
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: nuclear well, they're transporting nuclear reactors.

584
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: They have to there. It's weird they're not building it

585
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: as it feels like legos to me, like nuclear reactor

586
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: parts that you kind of put in.

587
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: A place right Ikia style assembly. But did you ever

588
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: play that, Let's think about it this way, did you

589
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: ever play that game where you had to have a

590
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: relay with an egg and a spoon. Yeah, now, I

591
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: had never deal with it.

592
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 3: That's a brutal variation.

593
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: Ah, would you imagine running either one will work mouth

594
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: or the spoon. Imagine holding the spoon in your mouth,

595
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: is what I meant. Oh okay, yeah, yeah, well either way,

596
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: imagine imagine that egg is a nuclear bomb, and imagine

597
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: the run is running from Earth to the Moon. That's insane,

598
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: that's what That's what they were proposing.

599
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then there again, it's so crazy to me.

600
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 2: It's not even getting to the moon. It's the last

601
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 2: jump from the orbit of the Moon to the surface

602
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: of the Moon with with a nuke or a nuclear

603
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: at least nuclear material material that is radioactive in that way.

604
00:33:58,800 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 3: Right.

605
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: So the idea was, Okay, we'll figure out the details.

606
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: We'll take these nuclear reactors. They'll provide shielding and power

607
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: for the operation of the initial quarters and the equipment

608
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: we used to make the permanent facility. We'll use every

609
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: empty cargo propelling container to store more supplies, life essentials,

610
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: and of course weapons.

611
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: Don't tell anyone, gotta have those space guns.

612
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: Gotta have your space guns.

613
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, honestly, what they didn't have lasers. You know,

614
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: they were really developing guns they could fire in space,

615
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: as we learned in another episode. Yes, there was a

616
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: pistol right on board with the Apollo program.

617
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a pistol with the Apollo program with

618
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: the lander, yes, right, just in case. Yeah, and I

619
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: think cosmonauts had something like that too, if they landed

620
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: in territory where they might be attacked by wildlife.

621
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 2: Oh so it was really about coming back to Earth.

622
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: It was about coming back. It was about coming back.

623
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: But they knew they would have to have some of weapon,

624
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: if not a projectile weapon, they would have to invent something.

625
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 2: That's a big wink there by the way, just for me,

626
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: that was in case there were aliens. I'm just saying, yes.

627
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 1: Yes, they had two types of surface vehicles. One was lifting, digging, scraping,

628
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: because naturally you would end up mining, right for long

629
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: term viability, in other words, for extended distance trips, a

630
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: little lunar road trip, you know, hauling reconnaissance, rescue, maybe

631
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: a great sound system, who knows.

632
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,959
Speaker 2: Just playing music across the whole of the Moon.

633
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 1: And they had this mapped out in phases as you said,

634
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: at the conclusion of the construction phase, the original camp

635
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: quarters would be converted into a laboratory and the basic

636
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: outpost just to get the basic stuff that we've already

637
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: talked about, would need about one hundred and fifty launches,

638
00:35:58,280 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: specifically Saturn rockets.

639
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: One hundred and fifty launches.

640
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: Didn't quite get there.

641
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so many. And you know, we were talking

642
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 2: with Marshall on our Mars.

643
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: Episode Marshall Brain Yes.

644
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 2: About how many trips it would essentially take to get

645
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: all the equipment and personnel out there, and it was

646
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: a lot. But the simple proposition of saying we need

647
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: to launch rockets, they cost x amount of dollars one

648
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty times in order to establish this moon base.

649
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 2: Hm wow.

650
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: And then also another sixty four launches every year to

651
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: keep it supplied and to rotate crew members back and forth.

652
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: So the idea was that in a perfect world, that

653
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: people wouldn't be spending their entire lives keeping nuclear weapons

654
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: at the ready on the moon.

655
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

656
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 3: Yikes.

657
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: See that's the tenuous script. Though we managed as a

658
00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: species to officially do this kind of trip all only

659
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: six times, yes, ever with a tiny crew and in

660
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: the post World War two economic boom of the US

661
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: getting people to the moon. Now, like, what happens if

662
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: you're on the moon and nuclear war breaks out in

663
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: the US or you know, in the world entire right, Yeah,

664
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: what do you do? I guess you start counting how

665
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: many days or months worth of food you have left?

666
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, in this case, you're talking about ten

667
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 2: to twenty personnel that they wanted to have in this

668
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: base at any time, and that's a minimum. They wanted

669
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: a minimum of ten to twenty personnel to run this thing.

670
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: I don't know.

671
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: They also started game planning how to survive on the

672
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: ground attacks from Soviet forces. Yeah. They wanted to surround

673
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: this thing with claymore minds that would poke holes and

674
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: pressure suits.

675
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds scary.

676
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: They also wanted to have the give the inhabitants small

677
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: sub kiloton nuclear weapons similar to things that were used

678
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: in anti tank weapons called Davy crocketts, that were already existed.

679
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: They were already in play, and the idea was that

680
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: they could use these to blow up Soviet moon tanks.

681
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they add anti personnel tactics to defend, also

682
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 2: anti vehicle tactics and you know, they're really again like

683
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: it's this, it's this conceptual thinking of war on the Moon.

684
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 2: That's really what they're imagining. They're using it for, you know,

685
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: or at least they're imagining it as a as a

686
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: weapon in itself, this moon base, but as well as

687
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 2: treating it like a military outpost. It's so odd to me,

688
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 2: but I guess it makes complete sense.

689
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 1: And of course speculation runs rife with this. They're planning

690
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: anti personnel weaponry and they say it's for the Soviet army,

691
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: but the Soviet Army, as far as they know, doesn't

692
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: have the teche technology to do this. So going back

693
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: to your question, Matt, who are they really planning to

694
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: defend themselves against. It's a great unknown.

695
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 2: And so those moon rocks.

696
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,479
Speaker 1: I have sound gardens. The entire time I was working

697
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: on I said, sound gardens, spoon Man sucking mahapo is

698
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: moon man, and I think it would be a worthwhile parody.

699
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 2: Is it? Spoonman with your hands?

700
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: Spoon man moon man? Huh? Yep?

701
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 2: Yet yep?

702
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: And we're suit no, no, I'll write the lyrics. It's

703
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: fair use is as a parody if we write the

704
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,959
Speaker 1: whole thing, which I'm fine doing uh the so let's

705
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: talk Turkey. Let's talk space Turkey, nuclear space Turkey. How

706
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: much did this? How much would this cost?

707
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 3: Actually, so, the total cost for the basic structure of

708
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 3: the study concluded would run in the neighborhood of six

709
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: billion dollars. That's in modern dollars, roughly seven hundred mili

710
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 3: per year. The study also made a note that this

711
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 3: was not much more than the US was already spending

712
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 3: on its nuclear missiles program.

713
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: So it's a win win, And I'm calling bs on

714
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: those calculated numbers from nineteen fifty eight. I think it's

715
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 2: easily three or four times that.

716
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 1: Easily easily. I mean you get private companies involved. It's

717
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: this tale as old as time. You know, this is

718
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: the land of three hundred dollars hammers.

719
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, how wait, what was the estimate? I know, I

720
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: figured you might know this, at least the ballpark estimate

721
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 2: of building the wall like that, that whole thing. I

722
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 2: think it was in the like tens of billions of dollars,

723
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: right like forty It was something crazy twitch wall the

724
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 2: border wall. During the twenty sixteen election, there were a

725
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: bunch of estimates that occurred back around there around that time.

726
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: And if you're just imagining building essentially concrete and rebar

727
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 2: structure or you know, whatever material it's built out of

728
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: on Earth on Earth, now you're going to build a

729
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 2: structure on the Moon, even with today's rocket technology.

730
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: Wow, So here's the question, did they really build it?

731
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: They be in the US? Is that the stuff they

732
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: don't want you to know? In the end, it looks

733
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: like the same international politics that inspired Project Arise and

734
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: also led to its early death. Neither President Eisenhower nor

735
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: Soviet Premier Khrushchev wanted to spend tons and tons of

736
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: money for a new arms race and outer space where

737
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 1: there was already so busy waging multiple proxy wars on Earth.

738
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: So they started negotiating treaties and agreements, reaching the consensus

739
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: that stands today, at least officially, which is there shall

740
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 1: be no nuclear weapons in space. No nation can claim

741
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: a celestial body as its national territory. We will see

742
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: how long that holds. We'll see how long that is

743
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: the case. As far as we know now, there is

744
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: no permanent base, no permanent crude base on the lunar surface. Again,

745
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: as far as we know, horizon never progressed past the

746
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: feasibility stage, Eisenhower rejected it, and the primary responsibility for

747
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: America Space program was transferred to NASA, which is of

748
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 1: course a civilian agency. While there may not be any

749
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: current proof of a permanent nuclear base today, recently leaked

750
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 1: documents reveal that, no matter what was said at the time,

751
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: the US government Uncle Sam never ever stopped thinking about

752
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: building a Moon base. Secretly, when the microphones are off

753
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: and things are closed at the Pentagon and people are

754
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 1: just hanging out secretly, the US still very much wants

755
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: to build a base on the Moon, and furthermore, is

756
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: planning to do so. They're worried now that new players

757
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 1: have entered the.

758
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: Game, and that's what brings us to a little thing

759
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: called Project Artemis, right, yes, or just Artemis. Let's just

760
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: go Artemis.

761
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: So the Greek god Apollo, for whom NASA's Apollo program

762
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: was named Apollo had a twin sister named Artemis, and

763
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: NASA's pitch on this is that this will be the

764
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 1: banner under which humans return to the Moon. The Artemis

765
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: program was unveiled by NASA in mid May, and the

766
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: ideas that will put astronauts on the lunar surface in

767
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Preparations have already begun, but the problem

768
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: is we don't know how certain how we don't know

769
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: how certain it is that this will actually come to pass.

770
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: So NASA is setting the maiden flight of its space

771
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: launch system for next year twenty twenty. As we record this.

772
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: It's a giant booster, it's taller in a thirty story building.

773
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: It'll blast a crew capsule called Oryan on an uncrewede

774
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: mission to the Moon and back. They're doing a dry run,

775
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: and then in twenty twenty two they will have a

776
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: test with up to four astronauts, and then after that

777
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 1: they'll construct a small space station orbiting around the Moon,

778
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: and then they'll dock a lunar lander in twenty twenty four,

779
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: assuming the world hasn't burned down by then, And then

780
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: that same year, in twenty twenty four, the four astronauts

781
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: fly in the rancapsule to the station, get on board

782
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: the lander, descend to the lunar surface.

783
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 2: And then for the next three three to four years

784
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: they continue to do that, and then they're really building

785
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 2: a base. And one of the biggest problems the issues

786
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: as tends to happen with space exploration, and I would

787
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: say with NASA budgets in general, is this thing that

788
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 2: we call sticker shock. It's you know, we have all

789
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: these aspirations to do these incredible things, but the moment

790
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 2: that we realize exactly how much it's going to cost, everybody,

791
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: and especially Congress because you've got elected officials, you know,

792
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 2: in the House of Representatives, the Senate, they see that

793
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: kind of thing and they think, well, how are we

794
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: going to convince the American people that this is worth it?

795
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 3: Well, even run into that with a podcast sometimes, you.

796
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 2: Know, certainly with everything because it is you really have

797
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 2: to take it into consideration. In this case, I guess

798
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,439
Speaker 2: the biggest pro con thing that you put up there

799
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 2: is if it does cost this much, we have to

800
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: be at least achieving something that is worthwhile for us,

801
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: both as investors and as a species. And sometimes it's

802
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 2: tough to see that.

803
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 1: Right. And then there's that argument about private versus public

804
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 1: ability or infrastructure.

805
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: Right.

806
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: We know that there are a lot of private companies

807
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: who have taken up the flag of state supported space

808
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: exploration agencies and they're making they're making some serious progress,

809
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: but do they have enough hef to to get to

810
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: the moon. Yeah, you know, that's a tough one, it

811
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: really is.

812
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: And let's just get back to that price that we

813
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 2: talked about with Project Horizon, that initial estimate from nineteen

814
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 2: fifty eight saying that it would cost in what is

815
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 2: nowadays now dollars, the entire program was going to cost

816
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 2: around six billion dollars roughly seven hundred million a year.

817
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 2: No way throughout the life of the project, there's no way,

818
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 2: but that was the estimate, right, Yeah. So we're looking

819
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 2: at an ARS Technica article where they're they're citing sources

820
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 2: that have told them that the internal projected cost is

821
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: six to eight billion dollars per year rather than per

822
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 2: the life. Because we're talking about a project that spans

823
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 2: from today twenty nineteen until twenty twenty eight, that's a

824
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: lot of money. And that's on top of the already

825
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 2: existing budget that NASA works with, which is twenty billion

826
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 2: dollars a year, right right, which again they have problems

827
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 2: getting funding for that a lot of the time.

828
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: So let's be clear about that. According to the internal estimates,

829
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: the cost of the Artemis project is not six to

830
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: eight billion a year, it's twenty six to twenty eight

831
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: billion a year.

832
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 2: Which is which is because of the NASA budget which is.

833
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 3: Twenty got it.

834
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's it's sticker shock for sure. The question

835
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: is if it's worth it. If there is a possibility

836
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: of building a sustainable lunar colony of any sort, then

837
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: there is. There's literally no price you can put on it.

838
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: There is no way to equate in numbers. No more

839
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: capitalistic people hate this idea that some things can't be bought,

840
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: but there is no way to equate with numbers the

841
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: value of having a second franchise of humanity just in case,

842
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: just in case, or in many cases, but arguably just

843
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: before the old house burns down, you know what I mean.

844
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that Earth

845
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: is doomed, but I am saying it is good to

846
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: have some insurance.

847
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 2: We're not doing a real great job at making sure

848
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 2: we try and keep everything running swell.

849
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: Sure here, that's true. We're also we're also pretty in

850
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: the dark still about how people would how a human

851
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: population would reproduce and grow in a lunar environment. The

852
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,439
Speaker 1: gravity is so much lower, you're exposed to a ton

853
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: of radiation. We don't know. We've never seen a child

854
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 1: created and born on the Moon. There are a lot

855
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: of unknowns, and twenty six to twenty eight billion dollars

856
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: is a high price to pay for. For ex I mean,

857
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: what if we what if we do all this? What

858
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: if our species does all this and it turns out that,

859
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: for one unforeseen reason or another, it is completely impossible

860
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: for people to live.

861
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 3: On the moon.

862
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 2: Can we just just to that point ben of how

863
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 2: long people would need to be on the Moon to

864
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: really understand having a child there, you know, having generations

865
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 2: who live on the Moon for at least an extended

866
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 2: period of time. Let's just talk about the length that

867
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: the crew of Apollo seventeen, the final Apollo mission, actually

868
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 2: stayed on the Moon at one time. How long was

869
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 2: it seventy four hours, fifty nine minutes, thirty eight seconds.

870
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: That is the longest amount of time anyone has spent

871
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: on the Moon.

872
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: So we're basing it, That's what we're basing it on

873
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: a crazy weekend on the Moon. It's like when someone

874
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: goes to Las Vegas for a weekend and they say,

875
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: I love it here, I want to live here.

876
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, albeit that's with suits and technol from the

877
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 2: late sixties and early seventies. But still I don't know.

878
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 2: Is the human body how well is it going to

879
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 2: do for months at a time if you've got a

880
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: you know, a stint on the moon.

881
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: The human body is custom made for a very specific environment.

882
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: That's a problem. And when you first said that was

883
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: with the suits and technologies at the time, I thought

884
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 1: we were still talking about Vegas.

885
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 3: Gotcha, we've been through this before, I think. But you

886
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 3: too would both be game for a moon stint, right, Yes, I.

887
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: It's the calculus is a little different now that I

888
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: have wife and son. But I think if he was

889
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 2: a game, my wife was game, we would do a

890
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 2: family lunar mission, a moon stint.

891
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have the first moon Boy.

892
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 2: That's right, moon Boy writer, you're gonna do this.

893
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 1: Moon Boy is also an obscure Marvel Comics character, so.

894
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 2: Oh TM writer, Sorry, we can't use that to get

895
00:50:59,320 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 2: a different one.

896
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 3: He can be a little moon rock.

897
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 1: That's not bad.

898
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 2: Done, all right?

899
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 3: Cool. I don't know that i'd do it just for fun.

900
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 3: If we were living in sort of a scorch Darth

901
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 3: Poke post apocalyptic situation, I think I would give it

902
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,959
Speaker 3: a go. But I don't think I would just do it.

903
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:21,479
Speaker 1: You know, for kicks, and that's our classic episode for

904
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: this evening. We can't wait to hear your thoughts.

905
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 3: It's right let us know what you think. You can

906
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 3: reach to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on

907
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 3: Facebook X and YouTube on Instagram and TikTok or Conspiracy

908
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 3: Stuff Show.

909
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,319
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910
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:40,600
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911
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912
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913
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914
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,680
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915
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916
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917
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918
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:20,640
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919
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,840
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920
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921
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