Speaker 1: I took care of a young lieutenant and he was
Speaker 1: shot in the head. You know, We're in a dusty
Speaker 1: desert tent, you know, with lots of munitions being fired
Speaker 1: around us, and he needed an operation. We didn't have drills,
Speaker 1: so I used actually the black and decker drill that
Speaker 1: we've been using to put up the tents and did
Speaker 1: the operation on the back of his head in the
Speaker 1: middle of this warzone.
Speaker 2: Hello Loves, I'm Andrea Waters King. That was doctor Sanjay Gupta,
Speaker 2: neurosurgeon and CNN's award winning Chief Medical correspondent, sharing one
Speaker 2: of the most harrowing moments of his career. Sanjay and
Speaker 2: his wife of over twenty years, Rebecca, joined us for
Speaker 2: a rare joint interview, giving us an intimate look into
Speaker 2: their lives. We'll hear what Sanjay is really like as
Speaker 2: a husband and three time girl dad, the social media
Speaker 2: rules in the Gupta household that I think every parent
Speaker 2: will want to hear, and the incredible life changing stories
Speaker 2: that have shaped America's favorite doctor. You do not want
Speaker 2: to miss this conversation. This is My Legacy, a podcast
Speaker 2: hosted by me and my husband, Martin Luther King. The
Speaker 2: third eldest son of doctor Martin Luther King Junior and
Speaker 2: Coretta Scott King. Together we're caring for their iconic legacy
Speaker 2: of equality, peace and justice. Plus we're joined by our
Speaker 2: good friends New York Times bestselling authors Mark and Cret Kilberger.
Speaker 2: Let's dive in.
Speaker 3: Welcome to My Legacy. Today, we're honored to sit down
Speaker 3: with doctor Sanjay Gupta and his wife, Rebecca Gupta. Together,
Speaker 3: they built a life of purpose, compassion, and connection, and
Speaker 3: we hope that their journey will inspire you to create
Speaker 3: a living legacy and to lead a more fulfilled life.
Speaker 3: What makes this podcast unique is not just hearing from
Speaker 3: brilliant people like Sonjay, but also getting insights from the
Speaker 3: remarkable people who've walked beside them every step of the way.
Speaker 3: Rebecca's love and partnership has been central to Sanji's extraordinary
Speaker 3: and we're excited to have both of you here today.
Speaker 3: And so, doctor Gupta, would you mind introducing your wife to.
Speaker 1: A very nice that's very very well done. I like
Speaker 1: that this is my lovely wife, Rebecca, who she probably
Speaker 1: knows me better than I know myself, and we've been
Speaker 1: married for twenty plus years now. So three lovely kids
Speaker 1: together and as you said, made this beautiful life together.
Speaker 1: She is an attorney here in Atlanta and does all
Speaker 1: kinds of activities in the community to make the place
Speaker 1: the world a better place.
Speaker 2: I may we also add that there are neighbors exactly.
Speaker 3: So let's go right back from the beginning, if we can. Sosanja,
Speaker 3: your family came from India, grew up in Michigan with
Speaker 3: your brother. Can you tell us how some of the
Speaker 3: values that your parents helped raise you with influence how
Speaker 3: you've sought to live your legacy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I don't I hadn't really
Speaker 1: reflected on this very much until more recently after I
Speaker 1: had my own kids. But my parents or immigrants, and
Speaker 1: my mom in particular had a really really challenging upbringing
Speaker 1: because she was part of the great partition of the
Speaker 1: subcontinent of India. And this is nineteen forty seven timeframe.
Speaker 1: She was five years old. So you, in the pursuit
Speaker 1: of your religion, you give up everything you have, You
Speaker 1: give up your home but also your way of life,
Speaker 1: and flee to another place and live in refugee camps.
Speaker 1: And I bring that all up to say that that
Speaker 1: was my mom. So that's the woman who raised me.
Speaker 1: And you know, when you have a mom like that,
Speaker 1: saying I can't do something is not an acceptable answer.
Speaker 1: You can't. I fled a country when I was five.
Speaker 1: I lived in a refugee camps till I was twelve.
Speaker 1: I was the only woman engineer at my college in India,
Speaker 1: and I became the first woman engineer at the Ford
Speaker 1: Motor Company in the United States. They never had an
Speaker 1: engineer who was a woman before that. So that is
Speaker 1: the house that I grew up with. And you know,
Speaker 1: my dad also an immigrant, although it's a funny sort
Speaker 1: of thing because in many ways he did not go
Speaker 1: through it. My mom went through during the partition, and
Speaker 1: he's almost always had a sense of this is her story,
Speaker 1: even though I'm also Indian, this is her story, and
Speaker 1: so both very focused on academics and this idea that
Speaker 1: you know, I think if you're an immigrant, you you
Speaker 1: chose to live in the United States. You feel privileged
Speaker 1: to live in the United States, and you when I
Speaker 1: was growing up, there was always a sense that maybe
Speaker 1: we wouldn't live here anymore because it couldn't make it work,
Speaker 1: and so that was sort.
Speaker 2: Of the background were you born in the United States.
Speaker 1: I was born in the United ste Okay.
Speaker 2: And I know that you all have taken your daughters
Speaker 2: back to Indy. You have three beautiful daughters. Thank you
Speaker 2: fantastic and you all have traveled to India with them, correct,
Speaker 2: And so I'm just really curious as to seeing India
Speaker 2: through their eyes.
Speaker 4: They were very young when we took him to India,
Speaker 4: and it was an interesting because at their age they
Speaker 4: kind of said what they thought, they didn't kind of
Speaker 4: really hold back. I think one of the cutest conversations
Speaker 4: we had was with our youngest. In India, there's you know,
Speaker 4: a lot of cows around and my we were driving
Speaker 4: around with a cousin and her daughter, and my youngest goes, well,
Speaker 4: why do you have all the cows? Why are all
Speaker 4: the cows all over and they're in the streets and
Speaker 4: you know, and the auntie says, well, that's because you know,
Speaker 4: we really love and respect and cherish them, and we
Speaker 4: feel that, you know, they provide us milk and substance
Speaker 4: are wonderful and we really care for them, and my daughter,
Speaker 4: without missing it, beat goes, well, if you really loved them,
Speaker 4: it seemed like you put them on a farm where
Speaker 4: they couldn't get hit by a car. So everybody has
Speaker 4: their own perspective.
Speaker 2: And you all have been married for twenty years, yes,
Speaker 2: So I'm just really curious, after twenty years of togetherness,
Speaker 2: what are some things that you all have Not only
Speaker 2: that you've seen Sanjay pass down that you've passed down
Speaker 2: to your girls, but is there anything that you all
Speaker 2: do in particular that with the girls out of your
Speaker 2: own unique legacy?
Speaker 4: You know, I think that that's a really large question
Speaker 4: to try to unbundle, and you think about all the
Speaker 4: little things that we do. But one of the big
Speaker 4: things that I think really helped a lot of that
Speaker 4: is our family dinners. We sit down and have dinner
Speaker 4: almost every night, and when we do, even when we're
Speaker 4: out in public, we're laughing hysterically. We are joking. I mean,
Speaker 4: people come up to us and are like, while you're
Speaker 4: making so much noise, you're laughing so much family. Like
Speaker 4: my mom will come out to dinner with us and
Speaker 4: she's like, are you guys always this like raw, just
Speaker 4: and just loud and crazy, And we're like, yeah, we
Speaker 4: we really are. But we don't hold back too. We
Speaker 4: like love each other. We talk about things, we tease
Speaker 4: each other, but really that's all because of Sunday. He
Speaker 4: really makes it a fun, you know, activity that everybody
Speaker 4: wants to be there for. They all show up for
Speaker 4: dinner and they're like, they're like seven seventh and the
Speaker 4: time really hit because of COVID, because he would get
Speaker 4: this tiny little window to come and eat at a
Speaker 4: certain time that he like told, you know, you know,
Speaker 4: and I need to eat. So they're like, okay, we'll
Speaker 4: give you like seventh, He's like seven thirty, give me
Speaker 4: a break, and so we'd all go up and during
Speaker 4: all that stress, we're still laughing and joking, and that
Speaker 4: really I think even now they all talk about, well,
Speaker 4: when when's dinner family dinner and we're all we go
Speaker 4: out on vacation and we all want to have dinner together.
Speaker 4: It's it's important to us.
Speaker 5: Are there phones?
Speaker 2: Are Are they allowed to bring their phones to dinner?
Speaker 4: There's no phones on at dinner the hardest, but he knows,
Speaker 4: he follows. Sometimes they're present for I want to show
Speaker 4: you this picture of something to happen today, or sharing,
Speaker 4: but not otherwise they're not visible or out or if
Speaker 4: they aren't, you know, they're gone, but it's never been
Speaker 4: a problem.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting not to make this a data analytics thing,
Speaker 1: but there was really good data on families that dine
Speaker 1: together at night. You may have seen some of this data.
Speaker 1: But the likelihood you were not going to suffer from
Speaker 1: a mental illness, the likelihood you were going to go
Speaker 1: to college, the likelihood you would not end up in prison,
Speaker 1: likelihood you would not take drugs were so directly correlated
Speaker 1: with having dinner with your family every night, or most
Speaker 1: nights at least. It's not why we started doing it,
Speaker 1: because we just really enjoy being together and you know,
Speaker 1: to have that time to check in in a non
Speaker 1: threatening way. You know, you don't have to make eye contact,
Speaker 1: you can sort of ask questions like this. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: just turned into a really nice thing.
Speaker 4: For us, and we've learned over the years, like we're
Speaker 4: not going to talk about one person's bad you know,
Speaker 4: test score, We're not going to I mean, we keep
Speaker 4: it sounds I get.
Speaker 1: Kicked under the table.
Speaker 6: I know that I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Yes, we're Bacca.
Speaker 5: Could you share the story of how you all met
Speaker 5: and in a twenty something Sanjay when he was in
Speaker 5: medical school and you went in law school.
Speaker 4: It's kind of funny. So, I mean it's a little embarrassing.
Speaker 4: We met through a mutual friend at you know what,
Speaker 4: you're in college and your social time is often spent
Speaker 4: like at bars, and so we were at a bar
Speaker 4: and somebody knew us. Both was like, hey, you know,
Speaker 4: you got to meet and that's how we met, and
Speaker 4: and it took a while from there. We were just friends.
Speaker 4: It took a while from there before we started dating
Speaker 4: and that kind of thing. But that's more typical to college,
Speaker 4: I think, and more typical to a lot of relationships people.
Speaker 4: Not everybody is like love at first sight. It's more
Speaker 4: like you get to know each other and then maybe
Speaker 4: we should.
Speaker 1: I feel like I was just insulted.
Speaker 2: You have some analytics, so are those who are friends
Speaker 2: first they tend to what is the science?
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. In my anecdotal case of one,
Speaker 1: it worked out all right. Site for you pretty high
Speaker 1: on that scale. Yeah, so much higher.
Speaker 5: Than hers to be.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I actually it's interesting. I mean I think I don't
Speaker 4: have the like, the statistics or anything to back me
Speaker 4: up on this, but I think men tend to have
Speaker 4: more visual like when they're attracted and women are more intellectual.
Speaker 2: So did you see them. They're shaking their hands eagerly
Speaker 2: and take what do you think?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the way you interpret that COMMI we
Speaker 1: are either smart nor good looking. It took a while
Speaker 1: on the you know.
Speaker 4: Like to be honestly, Well, what.
Speaker 3: Is the secret though? The two of you have been
Speaker 3: happily married for twenty years and extraordinarily demending lives. Like,
Speaker 3: let's just call it what it is. Like you're on television,
Speaker 3: as you said, you're whisking back for dinner. You know,
Speaker 3: America's doctor. You run your own law firm or back
Speaker 3: up for goodness sakes, and raise three daughters between the
Speaker 3: two of you, Like, how do you stay connected?
Speaker 4: Which is very involved in the community as well.
Speaker 3: So I'm asking this, like, not just for our listeners,
Speaker 3: I'm asking this for Mike, myself, my wife who got
Speaker 3: we got three kids. How do you stay connected as
Speaker 3: a couple?
Speaker 4: Well, one of the big things, and again I give
Speaker 4: Senjay credit for this. We'd go for walks. Whenever we
Speaker 4: had a chance, we go for a walk together. Sometimes
Speaker 4: for a long time I was running, but even when
Speaker 4: we would run, we spent part of that time walking.
Speaker 4: And just talking and connecting. And and even if it's
Speaker 4: not like we're not talking about really anything, like you know,
Speaker 4: what do you think about that color that person was
Speaker 4: wearing or something? I mean it is it just gives
Speaker 4: you that time to connect. And and now we go
Speaker 4: for a walks.
Speaker 5: When you all.
Speaker 2: Do spend time together, are you all able because with
Speaker 2: your schedule, his schedule, the girls schedule, do you all
Speaker 2: have a lot of one on one time with the
Speaker 2: two of us or would you say you all have
Speaker 2: more family time together.
Speaker 4: What's a lovely thing about teenage girls is they don't
Speaker 4: necessarily want to spend a lot of time with us,
Speaker 4: like we want to be somewhere in our orbit.
Speaker 1: But yeah, sometimes all of a sudden get an evening
Speaker 1: free and we'll say, how did this happen?
Speaker 7: Are you a romantic or like, what's what's your demeanor
Speaker 7: when you guys want to have a chance to connect.
Speaker 4: I'm probably more of the romantic.
Speaker 3: I love wait for him to answer.
Speaker 2: Look at Mark space.
Speaker 1: I think I'm pretty romantic. I think definitely more procedural,
Speaker 1: like in the sense that let's make a plan, you
Speaker 1: know type of thing, and so, but I don't know,
Speaker 1: does that is that at odds with romanticism. I don't know, question,
Speaker 1: but one of the.
Speaker 4: Things he does do that that's romantic, but I think
Speaker 4: it's towards our whole family is in the mornings, when
Speaker 4: he has to get up and go before the rest
Speaker 4: of us, you always kind of will leave the lights
Speaker 4: on and some music playing, and sometimes you know, he'll
Speaker 4: turn the coffee pot on, or like if it's cold,
Speaker 4: he'll turn the fireplace on, which is nice to come
Speaker 4: down to in the morning.
Speaker 1: Start cars for people. And when it's cold, you know.
Speaker 4: He starts the girls cars because that's an old like
Speaker 4: because we're from Michigan. That's an old Michigan like sing
Speaker 4: and our kids are like, why are you starting? Used
Speaker 4: to be really cold?
Speaker 1: I love that, I think because I was thinking about this,
Speaker 1: uh and and anticipation of this interview. By the way,
Speaker 1: people don't get to have nice conversations like this enough.
Speaker 1: I just I'll just throw that in there, like it's funny.
Speaker 1: We talk all the time, Rebecca and I, and yet
Speaker 1: we probably don't really have conversations like this. But I think, oh,
Speaker 1: let me just say what. I think that the the
Speaker 1: idea that there's a lot of mutual respect for each other.
Speaker 1: Like I think that that that ingredient more than maybe
Speaker 1: any other, the the love at first sight, the intellectualism,
Speaker 1: all of that. Mutual respect, genuine respect, I think is
Speaker 1: the key. And and also coupled with that is the
Speaker 1: idea that I never question she has my best interests
Speaker 1: in mind. I think when you have interactions with people
Speaker 1: in your life, you do wonder they're competing interests, sometimes
Speaker 1: with why they're telling you what they're telling you, or
Speaker 1: and and and that's okay, that's it's not a criticism,
Speaker 1: that's life. But I think when you have a partner
Speaker 1: who who you don't ever question that they have your
Speaker 1: best interest in mind, that's a really powerful thing. And
Speaker 1: it's hard to find. It's hard to find, and if
Speaker 1: you find it, you hang on to it for sure.
Speaker 8: Sandia, of course you're known as America's doctor. But Rebecca
Speaker 8: at home, does he try to give medical advice?
Speaker 1: And or is he you know, normal? I know what
Speaker 1: she's gonna say, and she's right. Even if I don't
Speaker 1: like it, I agree with it.
Speaker 4: We've you know, things happen, right you have kids, they fall,
Speaker 4: they get you know, bruises or bangs or you know, cuts,
Speaker 4: and frequently you got to run to the er and
Speaker 4: you know, get stitches and stuff. Usually the decision of
Speaker 4: whether or not to go to the er is on
Speaker 4: my shoulders. I mean just last night was at the er.
Speaker 4: And sometimes like, you know, stitches to him or like,
Speaker 4: they'll be fine, It'll just be a little cut. And
Speaker 4: they are girls, so they're gonna care more about whether
Speaker 4: or not their chin that's cut, like that much is
Speaker 4: sewn up or not. And he's like, it'll just be
Speaker 4: a little scar. It's like a you know, show is
Speaker 4: strength and I'm like god character. So every once in
Speaker 4: a while we we have those those kind of conversations
Speaker 4: and then things like rashes and I mean he'll be like,
Speaker 4: I'm a neurosurgeon. I gotta like I gotta know when
Speaker 4: to stick in his day of my lane. So but
Speaker 4: he's also really really good at like the big things,
Speaker 4: you know, which is which is really helpful because and
Speaker 4: and it is wonderful because he's so kind of gracious there.
Speaker 4: I don't think there's anybody who's ever called him, he's
Speaker 4: ever turned down or not helped or even if he's
Speaker 4: like I look, I can't talk to him. But tell
Speaker 4: him X, Y, and Z. He's always been very very
Speaker 4: good about that.
Speaker 1: The girls definitely go to mom.
Speaker 5: Answer your question.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: You call me America's doctor, which is very gracious, but
Speaker 1: not at home, not the home doctor.
Speaker 2: When you all go into the yard, does the other
Speaker 2: doctors and nurses eyes get big, like, oh, America's doctors here.
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny. One of the guys throwing stitches into
Speaker 1: the same daughter, same daughter, a different daughter when we
Speaker 1: got to the ear. I went that time, and he
Speaker 1: happened to be somebody that I had trained, and and
Speaker 1: so right away he got super nervous. So I had
Speaker 1: to walk out of the room. And then I and then,
Speaker 1: as it turns out, she was more critical of him
Speaker 1: than I would have ever been. She's like, you didn't
Speaker 1: throw that stitch, right, you have.
Speaker 4: To do that literally made the guy rethrow a stitch.
Speaker 4: And he's going, oh my god, you didn't even have
Speaker 4: you even even go to medical school and you're telling
Speaker 4: you to rethrow a stitch. I'm like, that's not acceptable.
Speaker 4: You're nervous.
Speaker 3: Are you mess with doctor Bob? I love stay with
Speaker 3: us because coming up we'll hear from Sanjay and Rebecca
Speaker 3: about raising healthy daughters in our social media obsessed world.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our partners.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to my legacy. We have the privilege of
Speaker 3: speaking with America's doctor, doctor Sanjay Gupta and his extraordinary wife,
Speaker 3: Rebecca Gupta Andrea. Your turn to jump.
Speaker 5: In, Sanjay.
Speaker 2: Even with everything on your plate, you still make time
Speaker 2: for patients and surgeries each week at Emory. Now, is
Speaker 2: there any particular patient that has really impacted your life
Speaker 2: that you still think about to this day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of patience. You remember all your patients,
Speaker 1: you know. I think the nature of things probably similar
Speaker 1: in life, as you remember things that were harder, more
Speaker 1: challenging in some ways. There have been times I think
Speaker 1: when as a journalist you're in situation where all of
Speaker 1: a sudden a neurosurgeon is needed, and that is an
Speaker 1: unusual situation to be in. When you're in the middle
Speaker 1: of a war zone and there's no other neurosurgeons there,
Speaker 1: but someone's been injured and needs brain surgery in the
Speaker 1: middle of the desert, or middle of a natural disaster,
Speaker 1: or on the moving ship, whatever it may be. I
Speaker 1: think those stories I remember the most just this confluence
Speaker 1: of the world. I took care of a young lieutenant
Speaker 1: in Iraq in two thousand and three named Jezus Vidania,
Speaker 1: and he was shot in the head and it was,
Speaker 1: you know, we're in a dusty desert tent, you know,
Speaker 1: with lots of munitions being fired around us, and he
Speaker 1: needed an operation and trying to operate on him, and
Speaker 1: that's we all had our biochemical suits on, you know,
Speaker 1: so just imagine the scenario. We didn't have drills, so
Speaker 1: I used actually the black and deck or drill that
Speaker 1: we've been using to put up the tents. I sterilized
Speaker 1: that bit and did the operation on the back of
Speaker 1: his head in the middle of this war zone. And
Speaker 1: then a black Hawk helicopter came and picked him up
Speaker 1: and took him off. And I didn't know anything about
Speaker 1: him except his name is Vedagna.
Speaker 4: And he's the macguy for of neurosurgery. He said, he's
Speaker 4: not even giving himself enough credit. Like they took an
Speaker 4: IVY bag and cut it open because they didn't have
Speaker 4: any anything sterile, and that he knew the inside of
Speaker 4: an IVY bag would be sterile so that he could
Speaker 4: like help, you know, protect the wound. Because it's a
Speaker 4: desert and there's dust and dirt everywhere, even inside the
Speaker 4: operating theater. So yeah, he he doesn't really give himself
Speaker 4: enough credit on that one. And there's others that, especially
Speaker 4: during that time that he helped that nobody will ever
Speaker 4: hear those stories, but they're incredible.
Speaker 3: And if I may interrupt, because I actually know a
Speaker 3: little bit how the story ends. He survived. He survived,
Speaker 3: like you got to tell that part of it.
Speaker 1: Also, Oh yeah, it's it's it's incredible. So I was
Speaker 1: back home. I just tell you because you'll appreciate. And
Speaker 1: I get a fun phone call one day in the
Speaker 1: area code is six one nine, which I recognize as
Speaker 1: San Diego. So I answered the phone. He's like, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: is this doctor Gupta. I have an update on one
Speaker 1: of your patients. First thing I thought is they got
Speaker 1: the wrong doctor Gupta. So I said, I think he
Speaker 1: got the wrong guys. It turns out there's a lot
Speaker 1: of doctor Gupta's. He goes, no, I think, did you
Speaker 1: remember operating on Jesus Vedanna over in a rock? And
Speaker 1: I remember thinking to myself, yes, of course, how do
Speaker 1: you forget operating on Jesus in the middle of the desert.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like this, this really sort of metaphorical thing.
Speaker 1: And he said, he's doing pretty well. He's got a
Speaker 1: little bit of left hand weakness and he's doing well.
Speaker 1: You should visit him sometime.
Speaker 4: And he's like, he's getting married and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a girlfriend. He was getting married. He's
Speaker 1: you know so, but i'll tell you. I'll just tell
Speaker 1: you really quickly, because I did go visit him. And
Speaker 1: he's this handsome guy, this handsome marine, and he's so young.
Speaker 1: And you forget how young the people are who safeguard
Speaker 1: our country. They're young. They're my kid's age now, you know,
Speaker 1: and they're responsible for keeping our entry safe. It's a
Speaker 1: monumental task. But anyways, I talking to him and he's
Speaker 1: so he's such a nice guy, and you know, he
Speaker 1: right away get into it. And he's living with his
Speaker 1: mom and his dad. And his mom comes out a
Speaker 1: little later and she's very sweet. She's like, are you
Speaker 1: the guy that operated on my son? I said yeah,
Speaker 1: and she's like taking my hands and you know, very nice.
Speaker 1: Dad came out a few minutes later. Dad's are different, right,
Speaker 1: he goes, you're the guy that operated on my son.
Speaker 1: I said, yes, yes, sir, I am he goes and
Speaker 1: you're a journalist. He never got the whole story.
Speaker 4: I never got the whole story.
Speaker 1: And I just thought that was so interesting that, you know,
Speaker 1: I sat down and talked to them mother, father, and son,
Speaker 1: and he had been shot in the head. He had
Speaker 1: gone to Kuwait City, then he had gone to launchdul Germany,
Speaker 1: then he'd gone to Walter Reed and then he'd gone
Speaker 1: to San Diego. And as I was sitting there talking
Speaker 1: to them, I realized they had never really talked about it.
Speaker 7: Wow.
Speaker 1: They he almost died in the desert and they never
Speaker 1: life became procedural as opposed to reflective. Reflection is a
Speaker 1: luxury for a lot of people, and they hadn't reflected.
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, I'm like, I'm enabling and
Speaker 1: empowering a conversation between this family that otherwise I don't
Speaker 1: think would have been had. And I'll be honest, and
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying this. I think that was as
Speaker 1: therapeutic for him as operating on him in the desert,
Speaker 1: that type of connection and his family and his family, Yeah,
Speaker 1: beca Can.
Speaker 3: I ask you a question, So all of us here
Speaker 3: have been in war zones and conflic zones. It's just
Speaker 3: the nature of the work. And I remember, I sincerely
Speaker 3: own personally when I got back, it played with my
Speaker 3: head a little bit, like you sit with child soldiers
Speaker 3: and some pretty horrific realities of like the mutilation of
Speaker 3: the violence that takes place. And I remember coming back
Speaker 3: and personally actually having nightmares from what I had experienced.
Speaker 3: And my wife was the one who I just talked
Speaker 3: through a lot of this with to try to make
Speaker 3: sense of everything seeing. But I don't know if you
Speaker 3: I found that you serve that role with your husband
Speaker 3: because he comes back from these really tough realities.
Speaker 4: Well, absolutely, I mean there's isn't any time, and sometimes
Speaker 4: it takes, like probably with your wife, it takes she
Speaker 4: takes responsibility of pulling it out of you, like you know,
Speaker 4: let's talk, or I noticed this, or you know, there's
Speaker 4: little things like when he came back from Smelia, I
Speaker 4: think one of our daughters didn't want to eat something
Speaker 4: and he got really upset about it. But it was
Speaker 4: just a reaction to like all that he had been through.
Speaker 4: It was nothing unusual. I mean our daughter was little,
Speaker 4: so it wasn't really anything unusual. For a kid, but
Speaker 4: for him, after seeing what he had seen, it was
Speaker 4: just too difficult for him to see somebody like turning
Speaker 4: away food kind of thing. We give him the space
Speaker 4: where he can say, I can say, well, you know
Speaker 4: that's normal, so let's talk about this.
Speaker 5: And.
Speaker 4: It helps. And sometimes you never know when that comes out.
Speaker 4: I mean there's little things sometimes that he'll do even
Speaker 4: now that I can see that are because of experiences
Speaker 4: that he's had that were so impactful. And I don't
Speaker 4: think there's one thing he's ever done that hasn't impacted him.
Speaker 4: He's super empathetic, so it all hits him. I think
Speaker 4: that's what makes him so good at what he does,
Speaker 4: is because he does feel every single thing that he
Speaker 4: goes through, and then he can process it and explain
Speaker 4: it to others in a way that they can feel
Speaker 4: and understand what's going what's happening.
Speaker 7: We did ask you a little bit of a different question,
Speaker 7: and you've written and spoken extensively about longevity and aging,
Speaker 7: and you've said something we love that if you could
Speaker 7: go back and talk to your younger self, you would
Speaker 7: talk about two really critical things. One is take time
Speaker 7: to talk to people from older generations. Really cool and
Speaker 7: two attitude matters. So can you just explain to us
Speaker 7: a little bit about why those two reflections are so important?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think when it comes to talking to people
Speaker 1: of older generations, you know, I think this is a
Speaker 1: sense that you have to experience many of these things yourself,
Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite books is Sadartha by Hermann Hesse,
Speaker 1: and I think to distill that message down, it's like
Speaker 1: there are a lot of lessons to be learned in life,
Speaker 1: but some of them you just have to learn yourself.
Speaker 1: You have to go through the experience to learn it yourself.
Speaker 1: People can tell you, but it can't really be taught.
Speaker 1: You have to experience. But for a lot of other things,
Speaker 1: there are hacks. I feel like, you know, things that
Speaker 1: my dad probably thought of at the exact same age
Speaker 1: that I was thinking of, or my grandfather, and instead
Speaker 1: of saying, hey, look, let me just you know, fumble
Speaker 1: the ball and make the mistakes, Like, can I just
Speaker 1: ask them what did you prioritize at this point in life?
Speaker 1: When did you start to shift your priorities? How did
Speaker 1: you save money? You know, just whatever it might be
Speaker 1: from very practical things to to more philosophical things. I
Speaker 1: think was really important. I also found that it made
Speaker 1: me feel good to have those conversations with them, and
Speaker 1: it made them feel good. This is this component of
Speaker 1: reciprocal altruism. We have a lot of knowledge about our
Speaker 1: own personal biology now, and I think the idea that
Speaker 1: we think about affecting our biology through extraneous methods, through
Speaker 1: pills that you take, medications, procedures, things like that. One
Speaker 1: of the really interesting sort of revelations and science is
Speaker 1: that we can actively change our biology by our thinking.
Speaker 1: And we kind of thought that if you're optimistic, you're
Speaker 1: going to feel better, you're gonna heal better, you're going
Speaker 1: to recover more quickly from things. We kind of knew that,
Speaker 1: but now we can measure it, and we can see
Speaker 1: cells changing. We can see the increase in tumor necrosis
Speaker 1: factor cells that bust cancer, cells that boost your immune system,
Speaker 1: purely by thinking about it. And so attitude matters. Attitude matters,
Speaker 1: It matters when it comes to pain, when it comes
Speaker 1: to recovery from things. Pain is a big one because
Speaker 1: we can't really measure pain, and yet we know two
Speaker 1: people who have the exact same injury, like bang your
Speaker 1: hand with a hammer. Two people that have the exact
Speaker 1: same insult to their hand. If the more optimistic person,
Speaker 1: person with the better attitude, is going to feel less
Speaker 1: pain and recover more quickly. Wow, I mean we aren't
Speaker 1: at the point yet as a human species to be
Speaker 1: able to quantify this almost sixth sense of things, and
Speaker 1: yet we know it exists. So attitude matters.
Speaker 3: Sancha. Your work has touched countless people, millions are inspired
Speaker 3: by your message. But I've heard you say when we
Speaker 3: had dinner that at the heart of all you do,
Speaker 3: in the heart of your purpose, is your three daughters.
Speaker 3: So how is being a dad affected how you think
Speaker 3: of purpose and legacy?
Speaker 2: Not only a dad, but a girl dad.
Speaker 1: Dad.
Speaker 4: It doesn't make reach out to boys a little bit
Speaker 4: like hey.
Speaker 1: Guys, No, it's a it's a it's a it's a
Speaker 1: great question. And then again, I'll just say, this is
Speaker 1: what's so nice about these conversations, because I think life
Speaker 1: moves so fast you don't often reflect on on that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. It's just my life. I'm a teenage
Speaker 1: girl dad, and so the idea of how it changed me,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what to compare it to.
Speaker 1: I don't know what I would have been like had
Speaker 1: I not done this, but I will. I will say this.
Speaker 1: It feels very natural. I feel like there's there's times
Speaker 1: that I've said to Rebecca, I feel like I manifested
Speaker 1: my destiny in a way that this was how it
Speaker 1: was supposed to unfold. So that's a good feeling, as
Speaker 1: opposed to feeling out of sorts or like something doesn't
Speaker 1: work or belong. I'll be honest. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people think about their legacy, and I think that's
Speaker 1: important to the extent that it drives them to do
Speaker 1: good things in the world. But to think about yourself
Speaker 1: in retrospect generations down the line. Who knows. We live
Speaker 1: in a really flimsy world and people's attitudes and belief
Speaker 1: systems and all these things change. So all that to say,
Speaker 1: we don't think about legacy in a conventional sense that way,
Speaker 1: except when it comes to our girls. They are the legacy.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 7: What do you love most being a girl?
Speaker 1: Dad? What?
Speaker 7: What what gets you up in the morning? Having that
Speaker 7: wonderful title?
Speaker 1: They they challenge me in a in a tell Us
Speaker 1: tell Us tell Us God. You know, I think I
Speaker 1: think when you're when you're a neuroscientist, I think part
Speaker 1: of what drives you is that you're you're consistently trying
Speaker 1: to find logic in the world, and there are things
Speaker 1: that are just they defy logic, and you have to
Speaker 1: get comfortable with that. You know, you have to get
Speaker 1: comfortable with the uncertainty. So you know, the idea of
Speaker 1: walking down in the kitchen in the morning and never
Speaker 1: really knowing for sure what you're going to get, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's wonderful if you lean into it. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, if it scares you, then you know you
Speaker 1: got to readjust but you get.
Speaker 7: To about very personally. And we've got one amazing daughter
Speaker 7: here among the family as well.
Speaker 3: We'll be back shortly with more of this inspiring conversation.
Speaker 3: We're back with doctor Sanche kuptad is amazing wife Rebecca
Speaker 3: on my legacy.
Speaker 2: Sonjay. On your podcast Chasing Life. You've explored the effects
Speaker 2: of social media on kids, even going as far as
Speaker 2: interviewing your daughters, who you call the real experts. How
Speaker 2: do you and Rebecca help them navigate a healthy balance
Speaker 2: between social media and real world connections?
Speaker 1: I will tell you one thing that I found interesting
Speaker 1: is that they did this camp over the summer where
Speaker 1: there was no phones allowed, and it was a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, they always did that every summer.
Speaker 1: And they come back super happy, super happy from this.
Speaker 1: And I made the observation that, hey, you know this
Speaker 1: thing that you are using all the time, you didn't
Speaker 1: use it at all, and you're super happy. And my youngest,
Speaker 1: who's I think a very wise child, she said to me,
Speaker 1: she said, you know, it's called social media. And I said,
Speaker 1: I get it. She goes, I was totally social. I
Speaker 1: had all these people in my own age. I was
Speaker 1: with them all the time. I was interacting in a
Speaker 1: social wad. That's what I'm really trying to do. But
Speaker 1: in the United States many households have become more siloed off,
Speaker 1: and so having that type of village social interaction, all
Speaker 1: the kids playing together in the in the street, you know,
Speaker 1: or in the playground whatever, you know, that you don't
Speaker 1: see that as much. So this is it is filled
Speaker 1: a gap for them. It's there's problems, you know, and
Speaker 1: I think you know the devices are designed to be
Speaker 1: addictive in a way, but it does at the same
Speaker 1: time serve a purpose that I think is very human evolutionarily,
Speaker 1: Like they want to be together. If they can't be
Speaker 1: together physically, then they want to be together virtually digitally, and.
Speaker 2: That feels different to them, I think than to us.
Speaker 2: I mean, since they were raised with it, and you know,
Speaker 2: we're just like you all, like we're trying to balance
Speaker 2: between the two because just taking it away, it's not
Speaker 2: they won't be prepared. They're not prepared for digital world,
Speaker 2: and they are using it also sometimes in a way
Speaker 2: that is connection. And I do think for us connection
Speaker 2: is all physical, but perhaps since our kids are being
Speaker 2: you know, they're nurtured in a digital world. You know,
Speaker 2: part of their connection is social, like you know, like digitally.
Speaker 4: And you'll notice a big difference when they start driving
Speaker 4: because then they can go and be social where that
Speaker 4: is such a huge difference in our society too, Like
Speaker 4: it's when it becomes the parent's responsibility to get them
Speaker 4: here and get them there, they spend less time. It's
Speaker 4: we're controlling it too much, and so they spend less time,
Speaker 4: like I said, having those study groups or doing those things.
Speaker 4: And when they do have that autonomy to like go
Speaker 4: out meet a front for coffee and go over you know,
Speaker 4: history or something. They start doing it, and the and
Speaker 4: the phone and the social media becomes less and less
Speaker 4: and less.
Speaker 2: I'm smiling at my husband across the table.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you do notice it, and suddenly you're like, wow, Well,
Speaker 4: I mean because we have all this technology that tells
Speaker 4: us how much time our kids are off social media,
Speaker 4: and we look at our daughter who's in college and
Speaker 4: now she's living with her sorority sisters that kind of stuff,
Speaker 4: and she's rarely ever on it, and she used to
Speaker 4: be our biggest person on it. So it's a social thing.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you three quick things that she came up with.
Speaker 1: Rebecca came up with as far as if people are
Speaker 1: thinking about social media for their kids. One is that
Speaker 1: we made an agreement that we actually could have access
Speaker 1: to their accounts, so kind of the ability to lurk. Now,
Speaker 1: we didn't really do it much, but they knew that
Speaker 1: we could. Number two was and we every now and
Speaker 1: then we would peek in to see what was going on.
Speaker 1: Number two was that no friends online that you couldn't
Speaker 1: touch in the real world. I want to be able
Speaker 1: to touch that person physically, like or is this somebody
Speaker 1: who's totally made up right. And the third thing, which
Speaker 1: Rebecca mentioned is that your technology allows you to monitor
Speaker 1: screen time, so you can get indicators that there's too
Speaker 1: much screen time being used on Snapchat or Instagram, and
Speaker 1: it can even cut off after a certain amount of time.
Speaker 1: So you know those three things. Again, it's a brave
Speaker 1: new world for everybody when it comes to this. But
Speaker 1: I think they've worked well for our three teenage girls.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we did have a cut off at a certain
Speaker 4: time at night and turn back on at a certain
Speaker 4: time in the morning because sleep is really important, exactly,
Speaker 4: and it is hard when they're up studying or need
Speaker 4: to get the you know, lost that paper or something
Speaker 4: that they want to reach out. I think technology and
Speaker 4: social media is not going to go away. It's learning
Speaker 4: how to make it work for you and thinking about
Speaker 4: what is the main reason that it is in our lives,
Speaker 4: and then how do you work around that.
Speaker 8: So in a culture that is so focused on, you know,
Speaker 8: chasing happiness, we often overlook what truly makes life for feeling. So,
Speaker 8: in your view, what creates a life of real fulfillment.
Speaker 1: I'll make my answer very simple. I feel like I
Speaker 1: got really lucky in life, and I don't know that
Speaker 1: I deserved it, but I got lucky. I have a
Speaker 1: great life, and I think my fulfillment is to constantly
Speaker 1: be a source of good energy for people, to just
Speaker 1: walk into every situation, every interaction, and sharing good energy
Speaker 1: is a really powerful thing.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: It's not as objective as money or something like that,
Speaker 1: but just to bring good energy to someone's life because
Speaker 1: I was blessed with it and so I want to
Speaker 1: give it away. I also think, as I talked about
Speaker 1: in the book, that there's a component of reciprocal altruism there.
Speaker 1: It feels good to do good. This seems almost an anti
Speaker 1: evolutionary in a way, because it was always the survival
Speaker 1: of the fittest and everything, so we've got to keep
Speaker 1: mine and you know, but yet we evolved as humans
Speaker 1: to feel good when we did good, Like where did
Speaker 1: that come from? And it's true. I think everybody would
Speaker 1: agree anybody that if you do something nice for somebody,
Speaker 1: you actually feel really good about it. And so that's
Speaker 1: it for me. I don't think a lot again about legacy,
Speaker 1: but the idea that genuinely bring good energy into every situation,
Speaker 1: make people feel good around you take the time to listen.
Speaker 1: Empathy is not a weakness. Empathy is sometimes seen as
Speaker 1: a weakness nowadays. When did that happen? It was always
Speaker 1: a strength when I was growing up, you know, but
Speaker 1: now it's almost seen as a weakness. So change that narrative.
Speaker 2: Well said, because we talk about legacy a lot here.
Speaker 2: You all focus your legacy globally, you know, nationally and locally.
Speaker 2: What are some things that you all We talked about
Speaker 2: your family, which certainly is your legacy, but also how
Speaker 2: do you spend you all's time. Are there any particular
Speaker 2: projects that you want to talk about or share?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think the issue of childhood hunger
Speaker 1: is something that viscerally affected us. I think the hardest
Speaker 1: story I ever covered was the famine and Somalia, and
Speaker 1: there's one hundred thousand children who starve to death, and
Speaker 1: you think, and this is twenty eleven, I think timeframe
Speaker 1: around then. So in this day and age that happened,
Speaker 1: and you think, we know how to do drought resistant agriculture.
Speaker 1: We can send Amazon packages to anywhere in the globe
Speaker 1: within a minute, and yet children are dying of starvation.
Speaker 1: So that was that was quite striking I think for
Speaker 1: me and I had a really hard that was harder
Speaker 1: on me than conflicts and natural disasters because it seems
Speaker 1: so preventable. And then you came home and you realize
Speaker 1: that about twelve percent of children in the United States
Speaker 1: go to bed food and secure, so they don't know
Speaker 1: when or if they're going to get another meal. And
Speaker 1: at the same time, we waste forty percent of our
Speaker 1: food in this country. This is a math problem. And
Speaker 1: how did how do we not pay more attention to
Speaker 1: this math problem? Because kids are dying of starvation. We
Speaker 1: got nuclear fission to figure out, The Middle East is
Speaker 1: falling apart, political election cycles around the world are in turmoil.
Speaker 1: Those are challenging problems. This one is not as hard,
Speaker 1: and so you know, we said, let's let's focus our
Speaker 1: attention in a place that really needs it and where
Speaker 1: we think we could objectively make a difference. So that's
Speaker 1: that's how we do it.
Speaker 4: I think I have been involved a long time with
Speaker 4: UNI Seth because they do do a really good job
Speaker 4: at getting things in those really hard regions or helping
Speaker 4: people when they have been hit with something like a
Speaker 4: natural disaster, war. But it's still a problem that even
Speaker 4: they can't totally get their arms around.
Speaker 2: One of the things we talked about at dinner too,
Speaker 2: which is is you also get not only is it
Speaker 2: it feels good to do good, it feels good to
Speaker 2: receive good. It also you get dopamine rushed by witnessing
Speaker 2: someone just witnessing someone doing good. So which is what
Speaker 2: excites us too, so much about the Realize the Dream initiative,
Speaker 2: just America coming together to serve. So it's helping whomever
Speaker 2: you're serving, it's helping the person that's serving. But even
Speaker 2: just witnessing service, witnessing a good act and helps the
Speaker 2: person as a witness.
Speaker 4: Here's another opportunity for your social media is to put
Speaker 4: those out there so people can see people doing good
Speaker 4: instead of so much social media out there people doing
Speaker 4: bad things to each other or competing or yeah, judge.
Speaker 7: So guys, we're so grateful for our time today. This
Speaker 7: has been in such an enlightening conversation, from love to relationships,
Speaker 7: to social media to raising teenagers. My last question is
Speaker 7: to you. Your work emphasizes the importance of small, intentional
Speaker 7: actions to create a healthy and more meaningful life. We're
Speaker 7: hoping that you could give one, two, maybe even three
Speaker 7: suggestions backed by science for our listeners on what they
Speaker 7: can do to live their best lives possible.
Speaker 1: There's this one thing that I write about in my
Speaker 1: book Keep Sharp, which is you know, it's classic because
Speaker 1: I write an entire book about this topic of brain health.
Speaker 1: And then I talked to my mom about it and
Speaker 1: she says, can you can you explain it in a
Speaker 1: couple sentences? You write an entire book, But she like,
Speaker 1: what should I do? And the thing I told her,
Speaker 1: and I mean this is that you should take a
Speaker 1: brisk walk with a close friend and talk about your problems.
Speaker 1: Do that on a regular basis. The brisk walk is
Speaker 1: important because it's the best way to actually grow new
Speaker 1: brain cells. That has the greatest evidence behind it. There's
Speaker 1: obviously benefits to the way you nourish yourselves and the
Speaker 1: activities you pursue how much rest, but movement in particular,
Speaker 1: and brisk movement, not intense movement, is the best for
Speaker 1: actually what they call neurogenesis human connection. Again, this is
Speaker 1: one of those things that we've known to be powerful,
Speaker 1: and now we have data to show that you make
Speaker 1: more oxytocin, the hormone that actually draws people together when
Speaker 1: you're spending time with people you love, friends and family.
Speaker 1: But the last one was a bit of a revelation
Speaker 1: for me, which is to talk about your problems, because
Speaker 1: we have long been told it's not the number of
Speaker 1: friends you have, it's the quality of those friendships. And
Speaker 1: what makes a quality friend someone you can be vulnerable around.
Speaker 1: It's a hack. If you can be vulnerable around that person,
Speaker 1: you know that they're a quality friend. So talk about
Speaker 1: your problems and it really works. Something that we we
Speaker 1: do on a regular basis, as Rebecca mentioned, to have
Speaker 1: that brisk walk close person talk about the problems and
Speaker 1: and I think the second thing I would just say
Speaker 1: is is the idea to constantly put out good energy.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you don't even feel like it, just do it.
Speaker 1: Do it anyway, because you'll feel better if you didn't
Speaker 1: have good energy going into that situation. By pushing it out,
Speaker 1: you'll actually grow your own reservoir. It's it's a it's
Speaker 1: a biological hack.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things about this conversation today is
Speaker 2: that because people are our listeners are listening and they
Speaker 2: can't see us, is that every time Rebecca is talking, Sanjay,
Speaker 2: you're just like looking at her and like just like
Speaker 2: n say, like you're just like lighting up and.
Speaker 1: All every time that that is panic.
Speaker 5: She said that.
Speaker 4: I like to keep him on his toe.
Speaker 7: Well, you guys have been just such an incredible force
Speaker 7: of nature today. You know, when we see you, we
Speaker 7: all see you on TV, you do it with such
Speaker 7: poison empathy and you do it with such genuine desire
Speaker 7: to communicate clearly to people who you obviously care about.
Speaker 7: And it's a real gift.
Speaker 5: It really really is you.
Speaker 1: Mark.
Speaker 7: So I just on all our behalf. Thank you very much,
Speaker 7: appreciate that.
Speaker 3: So grateful to both of you for being here today,
Speaker 3: ensure sharing your story, but how we can leave fulfilled
Speaker 3: lives and create our legacy every day.
Speaker 4: Thank you both.
Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: Honored and humbled that you would have us. Thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you very much, thank.
Speaker 2: You, thank you for joining us. We are so grateful
Speaker 2: to have you as part of this journey. For more
Speaker 2: information on Realize the Dream, visit realizethdream dot org. If
Speaker 2: you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe and share the podcast with friends, family,
Speaker 2: and loved ones, and follow us on social media. You
Speaker 2: can find us on Facebook, install Graham and TikTok at
Speaker 2: My Legacy Movement. You can also subscribe to our YouTube
Speaker 2: channel at my Legacy Movement. At the heart of this
Speaker 2: podcast is doctor King's vision of the beloved community and
Speaker 2: the power of connection. Produced by Legacy Plus Studio in
Speaker 2: partnership with iHeartRadio creator and executive producer Suzanne Hayward, co
Speaker 2: executive producer Lisa Lyle, editing an av by Guarcia Creative.
Speaker 2: My Legacy podcast is available on the iHeartRadio app or
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, may you
Speaker 2: find connection and inspiration to live your most fulfilled life.