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Speaker 1: Ah, beaut force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to software radio, special operations, military

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Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is normally right the part of the podcast, the

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Speaker 1: opening of the podcast where I say soft rep dot

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Speaker 1: com on time, on target. But I guess I can't

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Speaker 1: say that anymore because if you've been following, and by

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Speaker 1: the way, I've been getting like texts from friends like

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Speaker 1: what's up with this? The website is now news rap

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Speaker 1: and soft rep dot Com is being redirected to the

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Speaker 1: news rep dot com. A lot of people are panicking

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Speaker 1: about this. It's the same guys, It's us Hurricane Media

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Speaker 1: as we've always been. Um, you know Jack Murphy, Brandon Webb,

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Speaker 1: all of the gang that you know, Alex Hollings. However,

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Speaker 1: if you listen back to the show that Brandon Webb

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Speaker 1: was on recently, he discusses this a little bit more

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Speaker 1: in detail at some point, and uh, yeah, we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna be covering more things. You know, financial news for one,

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Speaker 1: is going to be a bigger part of the website. Um,

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Speaker 1: but we've always branched off and not just done special

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Speaker 1: operations stuff and we've continued to do so. However, this

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Speaker 1: show is still primarily going to be focused on that.

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Speaker 1: We do bring other guests on. I mean the last

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Speaker 1: episode we had Hoist Gracy on, but that's nothing new.

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Speaker 1: The show is still going to remain the same, and

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Speaker 1: it's still going to be soft Rep Radio, which I'm

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Speaker 1: proud of. You know. I think that we've we've gained

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Speaker 1: a great respect in the podcast community, uh, for people

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Speaker 1: who check out the podcast twice each week and have

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Speaker 1: been doing so for the past five plus years, past

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Speaker 1: five years that I've been on. UM, So, I guess

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Speaker 1: this brings a new era where I take out the

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Speaker 1: dot com and I just say soft Rep Radio. So

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Speaker 1: from now on soft reap Radio, on time on target.

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Speaker 1: On that note, I may have to do some new

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Speaker 1: imaging because I know at the very end the great

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Speaker 1: voice actor Kara O'Brien says. Softrep dot Com also mentions

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Speaker 1: Brandon's podcast, The Power of Thought, which is still up

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Speaker 1: for your enjoyment, but it's on a hiatus. UM. We

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Speaker 1: basically did it as a series and we may bring

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Speaker 1: it back at some point, but I'd like to redo that. UM.

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Speaker 1: I may even redo the intro because I had to

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Speaker 1: cut part of that out. We had another name in there,

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Speaker 1: and you know, for a while now it's just been

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Speaker 1: myself and Jack Murphy. So I might redo it to say, uh,

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Speaker 1: Jack Murphy or Army Ranger in Green Ray, Jack Murphy

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Speaker 1: and Ian Scotto, and or if it's not too douche

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Speaker 1: sheet and you did in the opinion of you guys,

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Speaker 1: I may have its say, uh New York Festival's Award

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Speaker 1: winning radio producer Ian Scotto, which is a story in itself,

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Speaker 1: all right, because I've been doing radio since two thousand six,

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Speaker 1: and you want to know what I want an award for.

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Speaker 1: I won an award when I was Senator Bill Bradley

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Speaker 1: producer over at Serious x M for American Voices, and

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Speaker 1: we had Charlie Rose on for an episode. And I

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Speaker 1: can't even say a book Charlie Rose. I was not

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Speaker 1: the one who booked Charlie Rose. The executive producer Divorce

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Speaker 1: Clara book Charlie Rose. And here was my contribution to

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Speaker 1: that show. For this especially did interviewing Charlie Rose. Our

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Speaker 1: Senator Bill Bradley interviewing Charlie Rose. I picked up the phone,

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Speaker 1: I dialed Charlie Rose, and I said to him, sir,

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Speaker 1: can you please take it off speaker phone? And he said,

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Speaker 1: do you mean to tell me I'm gonna have to

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Speaker 1: be holding the phone up to my ear for this

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Speaker 1: entire interview. And I was like yes, it was just

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Speaker 1: like all right, And then I potted up his level

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Speaker 1: on the board. We did a great show. We submitted

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Speaker 1: that show to New York Festivals, and I somehow won

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Speaker 1: an award. So I've I've done many things in radio

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Speaker 1: that I have not won an award for, but talking

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Speaker 1: to Charlie Rose for maybe a good ten seconds and

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Speaker 1: potting up his level on the mixing board, I won

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Speaker 1: an award and it's up on my wall, and I'm

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Speaker 1: proud of that award. And because of that, I could

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Speaker 1: call myself award New York Festival's Award winning Radio Producers.

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Speaker 1: That's the story behind that. If you happen to be wondering,

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Speaker 1: which most of you are not. But I've never really

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Speaker 1: related that story on the podcast. Uh. Getting into what

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Speaker 1: we're actually going to be doing this episode, Uh, we

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Speaker 1: have l Christian Bustler or Chris Um, who's a former

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Speaker 1: Marine Corps gunnery sergeant coming on. He wrote a book

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Speaker 1: called No Tougher Duty, No Greater Honor, a memoir of

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Speaker 1: a mortuary affairs marine, self published entirely. I was speaking

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Speaker 1: with him last night. I actually just got this book

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Speaker 1: delivered to the studio. I didn't really know much about it, UM,

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Speaker 1: but I actually in an open slot, so I called

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Speaker 1: the christ and I was like, hey, you want to

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Speaker 1: come on. And we talked a little bit, and it

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Speaker 1: seems like he did some really unique things. This is

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Speaker 1: a very different book from most memoirs, and you'll see

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Speaker 1: why once we get into it with him. But I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to have him on. UM. Chris just seems like

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Speaker 1: a great guy. And you know, it takes a lot

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Speaker 1: to put out a book completely on your own, no

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Speaker 1: publisher behind you. A lot of people say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I should write something, I should put it out, but

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Speaker 1: not everybody has the personal endurance, you know, because working

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Speaker 1: a job, doing other things in Chris's case, having kids

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Speaker 1: and a wife and duties and stuff like that, to

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Speaker 1: actually go through with it and put out their book.

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Speaker 1: And more guys should be doing it. So I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to speak with him. No video this episode. UM. I

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Speaker 1: got into the studio and we're having a few camera issues. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I wish I had Kill here every day because

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Speaker 1: he knows all that stuff a lot better than me.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Kill and I know that we're moving

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Speaker 1: next door in the same place, but literally next door

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Speaker 1: and on the same floor to a larger space. So

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Speaker 1: when when we get in there, I'll probably have Kralp

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Speaker 1: come back in set up this equipment with me for

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Speaker 1: a million time and hopefully you know a video and

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Speaker 1: all of that set up and good to go. So

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Speaker 1: just audio for this, but if you haven't checked out

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Speaker 1: the recent video, subscribe to the YouTube channel, the soft

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Speaker 1: Rep channel on YouTube. And with that as I let

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Speaker 1: you guys know every show, and I hope that you

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Speaker 1: take note and more of you are becoming members. There's

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Speaker 1: only one club out there with gear handpicked by special

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Speaker 1: operations military veterans from several branches, and that of course,

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Speaker 1: is Create Club. I'm looking very forward, as I've been

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Speaker 1: talking about the past few episodes, to the future collaboration

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Speaker 1: we're doing with NFW watches. We're gonna have an exclusive

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Speaker 1: watch for Create Club members, uh, Premium tier members that's

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Speaker 1: coming very soon. We have different tiers of membership depending

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Speaker 1: on how prepared you want to be Gift options are

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Speaker 1: available as well, and you check that all out at

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Speaker 1: Great Club dot Us. Once again, that's Great Club dot

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter the size of the dog. You can see

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Speaker 1: It's efficient for you. Your dog is going to appreciate

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Speaker 1: it as well, of course. And that's spelled c U

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Speaker 1: n A dot d O G. Last. As a reminder

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Speaker 1: for those listening, for a limited time, you can receive

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Speaker 1: a fifty percent discounted membership to the spec Ops Channel.

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Speaker 1: The spec Ops Channel is our channel that offers the

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Speaker 1: most exclusive shows, documentaries, and interviews covering the most exciting

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Speaker 1: Training Cell follows former Special Operations Forces as they participate

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Speaker 1: in the most advanced training in the country, everything from

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Speaker 1: shooting school's, defensive driving, jungle and winter warfare, climbing and

150
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Speaker 1: much more. Again, you can watch all of that content

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Speaker 1: and all the inside the team rooms, all that cool

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Speaker 1: stuff by subscribing to the spec Ops Channel and that's

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Speaker 1: a spec Ops channel dot com and take advantage of

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Speaker 1: a limited time offer a fifty cent off your membership

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Speaker 1: that's only four a month. And uh go to the

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Speaker 1: app store. I don't know if it's called something different

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Speaker 1: on the Android, but whether you have an iPhone or Android,

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Speaker 1: and just look up the spec Ops Channel app and

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Speaker 1: you'll get to watch all of that content on your

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Speaker 1: phone if you're a member. So spec Ops Channel know

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Speaker 1: the app developed by Chris. Shout out to Chris so

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Speaker 1: as promised on the podcast for the first time Chris

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Speaker 1: or l Christian Bustler, who's a retired Marine Corps gunnery sergeant.

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Speaker 1: Uh and as I was saying in the intro, I

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Speaker 1: just received this book earlier this week, so I haven't

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Speaker 1: read the whole thing. I got a chance to read

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Speaker 1: some of it. It's really well done, and got to

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Speaker 1: speak to you last night as we're kind of going

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Speaker 1: over things, and like I said, it's just it's cool

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Speaker 1: to see that you took the initiative and self published

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Speaker 1: this or winning awards, getting great reviews. Um. So an

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Speaker 1: honor to have you on. Man. Oh, thank you so much. Man,

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Speaker 1: I'm really happy to be here. This is this is

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Speaker 1: really cool. Thank you so much for the invite to

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Speaker 1: come on. Yeah, for sure. Man. So I think the

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Speaker 1: first thing that would be great to get to is

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Speaker 1: you were telling me the motivation for this book, and

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Speaker 1: it wasn't really something like you know, some some people

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Speaker 1: are like ready to write a book immediately as they

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Speaker 1: leave the military, and that wasn't a case for you.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to get into the story behind that,

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Speaker 1: I think it's really it's an interesting one. Absolutely. UM

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Speaker 1: my job over there it was I was a mortuary

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Speaker 1: affairs marine. So basically what that means is that I'm

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Speaker 1: the guy who who went outside the wire and uh,

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Speaker 1: whenever they needed if the unit couldn't recover their remains

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Speaker 1: or the unit was engaged in combat, um, we would

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Speaker 1: go out and find the remains on the scene, um

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Speaker 1: and bring them back to our base, process those remains

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Speaker 1: UM and send them home. And what that means is

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Speaker 1: that we were supposed to go through their pockets and

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Speaker 1: annotate all the wounds suffered and send them back home.

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Speaker 1: And so after three deployments to under that capacity and

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Speaker 1: one and with being attached to an infantry battalion UM

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Speaker 1: three consecutive years, I come back home and I was

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Speaker 1: a little bit lost in in my PTSD. I was

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Speaker 1: a reservist. So I ended up coming home and I

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Speaker 1: found out that I couldn't work at my my job

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Speaker 1: at the post office anymore, just because of all the

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Speaker 1: flashbacks I was having dirt when I was delivering the mail.

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Speaker 1: A bad thing about delivered mail in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the city's when you're delivering mail and it's summertime and

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Speaker 1: there and there roofing, they have this, uh, they'll have

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Speaker 1: this pop pa pa pa pap when they're putting all

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Speaker 1: their shingles down. And so I would having problems with

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Speaker 1: that and I couldn't have a good night's sleep. I

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Speaker 1: would spend literally days a week UM and I would

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Speaker 1: drink myself, try to drink myself to sleep, and it

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Speaker 1: was seven days a week. So I left the post Office.

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Speaker 1: I was a regular at the v A. I was

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Speaker 1: going in five days a week. I was taking handfuls

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Speaker 1: and it's trying to get some sleep and and try

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Speaker 1: to find some normalcy in it. And that was really

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Speaker 1: at my wids end. And uh, I got to a

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Speaker 1: point where my PTSD it got so bad that UM,

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Speaker 1: I really didn't care if I lived or died. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it just it was every thought in my mind. I

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Speaker 1: was so desperate for sleep. I was so sick of

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Speaker 1: thinking that place, thinking of that place so much. And UM,

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Speaker 1: I ran into a Vietnam War veteran who pretty much

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Speaker 1: said I know what you need and and I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: what do I need? And he goes, you're looking anybody

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Speaker 1: can look into your eyes to see where you're at.

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Speaker 1: You know how you can't you know you can't barely function.

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Speaker 1: You're basically your functional alcohol it. Um, what you need

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Speaker 1: to do is to take your stories and you need

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Speaker 1: to write them down. And at first I was like, okay, whatever,

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Speaker 1: this is a bunch of bs, you know, Okay whatever,

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Speaker 1: um and he goes, believe me, it works. And so

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Speaker 1: it was a moment where I ended up waking up

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Speaker 1: from a nightmare again, and I didn't know what to

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Speaker 1: do with my my you know, time or anything. So

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Speaker 1: I ended up before another in all of this, You're

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Speaker 1: a married guy with kids in the middle of life, right,

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Speaker 1: um as the middle of of you know, being married

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Speaker 1: and all that stuff. And I'm trying to struggle or

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Speaker 1: keep the everything together. My wife was thinking about picking

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Speaker 1: up and leaving and and everything was falling apart around me.

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Speaker 1: So whenever I woke up from nightmares, I just went

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Speaker 1: out to the garage. I end up smoking some cigarettes, drinking,

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Speaker 1: drinking another twelve pack. Hopefully I'll be able to knock

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Speaker 1: out the the dreams and stuff where I can go

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Speaker 1: back to sleep. But that particularly or night, I end

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Speaker 1: up saying screw it was, pulled up the computer and

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Speaker 1: then start writing. And I mean, this guy says it works,

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Speaker 1: why not? You know, everything else I've been trying hasn't

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Speaker 1: been working. So I tried it, and um, a couple

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Speaker 1: of days later, I ended up burning it. And after

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Speaker 1: that I tried it again and then burning it, and

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Speaker 1: and so at the very beginning, it was it was

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Speaker 1: just trying to get a handle of what I was

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Speaker 1: doing with my life. Um, you know, trying to find some,

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Speaker 1: um anything, anything. I was trying to reach out to

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Speaker 1: grasp anything that would help me through my my sleepless

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Speaker 1: nights and stuff, my nightmares and stuff. Um. So, eventually,

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Speaker 1: after years and years of burning it and writing it

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Speaker 1: and burning it, I ended up coming up with the

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Speaker 1: ideas like, what the hell, Um, I've got thirteen stories

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Speaker 1: here that I've been working on relentlessly for all these years.

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Speaker 1: Let's try to figure out and try to write a book. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's nobody else who's ever written a book about mortar

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Speaker 1: referious operations in combat. It doesn't matter what war, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter when nobody else has ever done that. So

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Speaker 1: I figured, hey, this is a sign of war that

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Speaker 1: nobody knows about, and um, why not try to across

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Speaker 1: a a bucket list list off of the thing you

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Speaker 1: know and and try to try to get it out.

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Speaker 1: And so about four years ago I ended up saying,

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Speaker 1: screw it, let's go ahead and try it. And so

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Speaker 1: I taught myself how to write, and I taught myself,

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Speaker 1: you know, how to how to really it into explaining

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Speaker 1: what it was like to be in my situations, um

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Speaker 1: to where all these different hats of being a mortrey fairs, Marine,

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Speaker 1: Um to be on the scenes of of all these

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Speaker 1: things what I was thinking of every night and so far. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm when I publish it last year, I'm self published,

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Speaker 1: I'm self marketing and at all. And so as of

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Speaker 1: right now, I I've won the finalist award m through

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Speaker 1: Next Generation Indie Book Awards. I have a five star

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Speaker 1: average on Amazon, and um, I'm in for a couple

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Speaker 1: I'm on the long list for a Chance of Clears

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Speaker 1: uh book contest and so I'll find out here September

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Speaker 1: one if I get that one in Reader's Favorites. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: everything's been fantastic ever since then. I decided to to

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Speaker 1: write the book in honor of the guys that we

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Speaker 1: had lost over over in I act, the guys that

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Speaker 1: we had processed, um, and also the to the guys

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Speaker 1: who who did the job, because it is a previou Aslee,

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Speaker 1: It's been an unknown job. Yeah, and so I thought

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Speaker 1: that why not, why not try to honor these guys,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get into the history of all that. And

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Speaker 1: actually the cover kind of shows something that that you

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Speaker 1: did there was a very unique job. Um. But before

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Speaker 1: we do so, just from reading the beginning of this book.

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Speaker 1: It's it's fair to say I believe you were not

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Speaker 1: a guy who joined the Marines ran out of high

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Speaker 1: school like so many guys we've had on the show before.

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Speaker 1: You were working a job, and this was something he

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Speaker 1: decided to do slightly later on in wife right. Oh no,

300
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Speaker 1: actually I joined the Marine Reserves right out of high school.

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Speaker 1: So you were working at the post office while you

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Speaker 1: were in high school or no, No, I was. I

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Speaker 1: graduated high school in n I went straight into the

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Speaker 1: Marine Corps Reserves and I worked a bunch of odd

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Speaker 1: and end jobs UM on the civilian side, but I

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Speaker 1: ended up with my Marine Corps experience. I mean I

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Speaker 1: joined up this company called the MP Company Charlie in Dayton, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: and at the time they were the only UM. They

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Speaker 1: only had a platoon experimental Platoon of Mortuary Affairs. Back

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Speaker 1: then we're called Grace Platoon and UM and we were

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Speaker 1: the only ones in the entire Marine Corps. So back

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Speaker 1: when I at the very beginning of the book, I

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Speaker 1: was at work at my civilian job delivering mail when

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Speaker 1: my postal supervisor comes up and says, hey, Chris, uh,

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Speaker 1: the Marine unit just called looking for you, and they're

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Speaker 1: they're wanting you to give him a call back. And

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Speaker 1: so I called up my my my unit and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: what's going on and and they were like, hey, you

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Speaker 1: need a report in the day after Christmas, which was

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Speaker 1: four days later, and so that's where I started the

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Speaker 1: book up out from there. But yeah, I joined up

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Speaker 1: right after high school. And because I grew up in

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Speaker 1: the military. My dad was in the Air Force, I

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Speaker 1: was born and I was born right outside of McGuire

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Speaker 1: Force Base in New Jersey. UM, I spent my whole

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Speaker 1: life traveling seven years of Japan, Death through Thailand, Philippines,

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Speaker 1: um all over the United States before we ended up

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Speaker 1: settling down in Ohio when he got out of of

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Speaker 1: the Air Force. And so I figured, since I spent

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Speaker 1: my whole childhood traveling, I wanted to still serve. But

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Speaker 1: I wanted to UM, I wanted to be more stationary. UM,

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Speaker 1: just like a lot of other guys, when you're in

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Speaker 1: high school, you had that high school girlfriend, you know,

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Speaker 1: convinced you to to stay home. And so yeah, I

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Speaker 1: listened to my high school girl friend. And by the

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Speaker 1: time I got out of of all my boot camp

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Speaker 1: and training and came home, she was already gone. So

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Speaker 1: they love. Even with your father's background, from what I've

339
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Speaker 1: read so far, he wasn't exactly thrilled that you were

340
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Speaker 1: joining the corps. Oh no, no, Um, I called myself.

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Speaker 1: I described myself as a direct product of the Vietnam War.

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Speaker 1: My dad was stationed over entire land um during for

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Speaker 1: three years for three different tours, and that's where he

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Speaker 1: met and married my mom. But his job was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be fueling up airplanes and and making napalm and

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Speaker 1: so working out there on the flight line. He told

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Speaker 1: me the day that I graduated, and he also told

348
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Speaker 1: me on that when when we got that phone call,

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Speaker 1: that he saw a lot of a lot of marines

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Speaker 1: coming home in bodybags, he said. He said that he

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Speaker 1: saw a lot of the black bags being loaded up

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Speaker 1: on the on the airplanes, and he didn't want me

353
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Speaker 1: to become one of them. So do whatever it takes

354
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Speaker 1: for you to get home and keep your fucking head down.

355
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Speaker 1: And so he knew exactly what I was getting into. Um.

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Speaker 1: He grew up listening to the stories his father ended up. Uh.

357
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Speaker 1: He was a thought through the Philippines with General MacArthur

358
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Speaker 1: world War two. Got a grand uncle who's ninety seven

359
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Speaker 1: years old, just turned ninety seven, and he landed on

360
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Speaker 1: Omaha Beach fought us way to Bashtone. Um. So he

361
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Speaker 1: I spent my entire childhood. He spent his entire childhood

362
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Speaker 1: listened to it, and we could trace our lineage all

363
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Speaker 1: the way back to the Civil War. So military service

364
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Speaker 1: was was always a big thing in our family. But

365
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Speaker 1: he knew firsthand how horrible war is and and it

366
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Speaker 1: was really kicked him in the stomach to to know

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Speaker 1: that I was going to war, um, and especially when

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Speaker 1: they were talking about Padoman staying having weapons of mass

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Speaker 1: destruction too at the time. So yeah, it was it

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Speaker 1: was a really emotional moment when when we found out

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Speaker 1: that I was getting deployed. So in terms of what

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Speaker 1: you actually did, I don't think we've ever had a

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Speaker 1: guy who's been involved in mortuary affairs on the show.

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Speaker 1: I'm almost positive of it. How is that something that

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Speaker 1: you get into. I would think it's like the last

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Speaker 1: thing that someone would want to choose and be like,

377
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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because like, you're almost right,

378
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Speaker 1: you're almost guaranteed to get PTSD issues, which is the

379
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: last thing that you want. You're exactly right, you know,

380
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Speaker 1: I ended up joining as an OH three eleven rifle. UM.

381
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Speaker 1: I figured, if I'm gonna go in the Marine Corps,

382
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Speaker 1: I don't wanna be welding. I don't wanna you know,

383
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Speaker 1: build things. I want to go in and blow things

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Speaker 1: up and put holes and things. You know. I wanted

385
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Speaker 1: to join UM for the reasons why I was watching

386
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Speaker 1: all the movies when I was growing up, and I

387
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 1: wanted to do that kind of stuff and go out

388
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Speaker 1: and shoot some cool guns and stuff and so UM.

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Speaker 1: At the time, the only unit that was close to

390
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Speaker 1: me that accepted oh three elevens was Dayton, Ohio, and

391
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 1: and and had they said it had a small little

392
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Speaker 1: detachment of of mostly grunts, and he had mostly oh

393
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Speaker 1: three elevens oh one machine gunners. And UM, I figured

394
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Speaker 1: why not. The closest other unit would be too, would

395
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: be the clumb this unit. And I had a really

396
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Speaker 1: crappy car at the time, and I figured, this is

397
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Speaker 1: so close to my house. Why not? Um? And and

398
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 1: believe me, when they first told me that what we

399
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: were supposed to do, I was not happy at all

400
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: about it. So this was but no means something that

401
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: you said I like that you set out to do

402
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 1: at some point. No, no, it was I didn't tell

403
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: me until I checked into the unit, and I was like, oh, well, Ship,

404
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this. Which to give you

405
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: some perspective on joining the military, because of the fact

406
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: that you know on this show and stuff that has

407
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: been written on the site, we don't go out of

408
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: our way to make the military look glamorous. You know.

409
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,479
Speaker 1: We'll talk about the positives and negatives, and I know

410
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 1: that sometimes you're given the impression of like, whatever it

411
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: is you want to do, whatever, you're strong, so you

412
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: know we'll put you. You know, we'll we'll put you

413
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: in a job that that fits the career path you want.

414
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: So from what you're saying, this is not at all

415
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: the path that you were hoping to fulfill. I had

416
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: no idea what I was getting into until I got

417
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: until that first day I checked in, and believe me,

418
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: I was not happy about it, um, but I figured

419
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: I looked at it this way. We just got out

420
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: of the Gulf War and we weren't going to get activated.

421
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: I didn't think we were going to go in and

422
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: see any kind of combat anytime soon. So I figured, hey,

423
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: this is close to my house. Um, I already liked

424
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,959
Speaker 1: the guys here. Uh and and why not you know,

425
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: why not just drive up twenty minutes up the road

426
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Speaker 1: instead of you know, driving an hour or some change

427
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: to go out to Columbus. And so I ended sticking

428
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Speaker 1: with the unit. And uh. As the years progressed on,

429
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: we didn't you know, we had things like Somalia pop

430
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: up or Bosnia pop up, but nothing, nothing serious where

431
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: they were saying, yes, you better prepare yourselves. Not until

432
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: after nine eleven got you and and so at that

433
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: point though, what was running through your head with the

434
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: with the duty that you had to fulfill? Um nine eleven.

435
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: Really we were just chomping at the bit to get

436
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: into combat. We didn't care, we didn't care what it was.

437
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: We figured the war was going to be super quick,

438
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: like how it was in the Gulf War. Get in,

439
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: get out, and and and you know, kick some mass.

440
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: But we had no idea that that Afghanistan was gonna

441
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: last as long. But you know, when we started sitting

442
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: troops in Afghanistan, we're watching on TV and we're figuring, Okay,

443
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: we're gonna get our call anytime soon. We're the only

444
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: more trousers the entire Marine Corps. So um, pretty much

445
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: a year came and passed and and we were like, okay,

446
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: well we're not getting activated, so nothing else was going on. Um.

447
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: It wasn't until the summer of two thousand and two

448
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: when we had the Marine Expeditionary Unit Special Operations capable

449
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: came into over here at Dayton, Ohio, and they were

450
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: staying at White Patterson Air Force Space and they were practicing, uh,

451
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: doing helicopter raids into a bunch of abandoned buildings. And

452
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: back then all the local newspapers have said, hey, we're

453
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: practicing for Baghdad, We're practicing for Iraq. And that was

454
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,239
Speaker 1: really the first clue that we got that, Hey, if

455
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna go to anywhere, we're gonna go to Iraq. Um.

456
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: And so we didn't expect to get called anytime soon,

457
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: and it was a real surprise that we did. Um

458
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 1: when I got my phone call in December of two

459
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: thousand and two, gotcha, and I'm just wondering from there,

460
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: like how did everything come to play out? Um? All right,

461
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: when we first got this, this job here is a

462
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: basically it was archaic at the time. We were working

463
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: off of World War two manuals. Uh, these manuals. Yeah,

464
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: these manuals have not never been updated ever since they

465
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: left left the World War two. Um So, basically all

466
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: the diagrams that were in there were based upon airplanes.

467
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: They had propellers. Basically, they're not gonna when they crash,

468
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: and they're not going to be at a high speed crash.

469
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: They're they're they're still gonna be in ah in main

470
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: pieces like here's the fuselage, here's here's the engine, that

471
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,239
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. So, um we what they wanted us

472
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: to do was they wanted us to take this World

473
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: War two style manual and change it to where it's

474
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: applicable to modern standards, modern fighting styles. And they pretty

475
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: much gave us the idea that that we need to

476
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: be able to do this on the fly, where if

477
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: you have to, you have to be able to work

478
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: on it in the back of a vehicle or on

479
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: the side of the road. And so we had to

480
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: take all the kept, all the fat, all the stuff.

481
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: Basically said we're not gonna be building any graves over there,

482
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: so you can strow all that off the window. Um So,

483
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: the basic idea of graves registrations that the world War

484
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,239
Speaker 1: two manual had talked about basically building graves like you

485
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: see over in Normandy in different World War two battle sites.

486
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: He said, we're not going to be doing that, so

487
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: everything is still going to be uh. If if anybody

488
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: gets killed, it's still be um removed and sent back

489
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: home through an airplane and sent them. But we need

490
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: to we need to figure this out of how he

491
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: can take it, what you need to do and work

492
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: it in in in a very fluid battlefield. So we

493
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: spent a week of doing that and and after that, uh,

494
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: they were they said, okay, well you eleven guys you

495
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: live in Marines. You're going down to Marietta, Georgia. You're

496
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: going to train up a company of marines down there.

497
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: So we went down there, training a hundred fifty marines

498
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: down there, and they were like, okay, now you gotta

499
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: go up and spend a week up in anacoste on

500
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: Navy yards in Washington, CE training another hundred fifty marines

501
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: up there, and then get ready to go. So that's

502
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: where we ended up. What we ended up doing. We

503
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: ended up spreading the wealth from having thirty marines who

504
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: were school trained to do this job. So we we

505
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: whittled it down. Well, we we actually boosted it up

506
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: to over three hundred marines. So so yeah, we ended

507
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: up leaving landing in Kuwait February the ninth of two

508
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: thousand and three, and we were of the very first

509
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: events to get there, and uh, this start building the

510
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: basis that we were on. I'm sure it's a tough

511
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: thing to get into, but you know, at what point

512
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: do you start seeing guys that you're serving with die

513
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: in combat and you have to do this job. Um.

514
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: When we first got over there, we were kind of

515
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: lighthearted about it. We're like, Okay, this is really cool.

516
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: Finally we're on active duty. We're having fun on active duty,

517
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: and a lot of the other units around us, uh,

518
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: we're like, why how do you get your guys so motivated?

519
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: And because we looked at everything as a game and

520
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: we're a bunch of reserves and we're not used to

521
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,479
Speaker 1: be an active duty, so um, we were having a

522
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: bunch of uh, you know, having a good time working

523
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: out and getting in shape and um, and we spent

524
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: like the first month doing that and then all of

525
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: a sudden, now the blue, we had a helo crash

526
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: that went down they had two Blackhawks doing touch and

527
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: goes in the middle of the night, in the middle

528
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: of a sandstorm. Um and one ended up crashing and

529
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: rolling over and and all the guys had had died

530
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: in that particular incident. So UM, at the time, with

531
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: it being peacetime, the the NTSB, the National UH Transportation

532
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: Safety Board, they had all of the all of the

533
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: you know that they determined who was going to be

534
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: out there on the scene. So UM, my old major

535
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: ended up going over and said, hey, you know, can

536
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: we join it. We got a bunch of mortuary faious

537
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: guys need to get some experience and stuff, and eventually

538
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: they'll let us go out there and help participate and

539
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: and working with them. So we worked side by side

540
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,239
Speaker 1: cleaning up. There was the very first time that we

541
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: had worked any kind of scene. Out of this in

542
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: the realization of having a vehicle like a like a

543
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: black Hawk crash and and and and burn up was

544
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: the whole scene was catastrophic. It was something that we

545
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: were never taught something We were seeing things that we

546
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: have never seen before because in in the all the

547
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: World War two manuals, it didn't even come close to

548
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: how how catastrophic this, this uh particular event was so

549
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: we got lucky with working with the NTSB and we

550
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: were able to pick their brains and really find out, um,

551
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: exactly what happens in a lot of the real world situations.

552
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: We were finding out a lot of things that we

553
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 1: were never taught UM. Stuff like when when a lot

554
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: of these catastrophic seems just as a helo crash or

555
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: airplane crash and any anything involving fires. Um, they were

556
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: saying that, um, blood crystallizes in the turns it looks

557
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: like burn sugar. We were never taught that. Because we're

558
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: going out there and we're going through we're chipping away

559
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: at this stuff that looks like like sugar, like burn sugar,

560
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: and we couldn't figure out. Me and my guys were

561
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: looking around like, Okay, what the hell is this stuff?

562
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: And we'll keep on going. I was thinking it was

563
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: like some kind of hydraulic fluid or something, and it'd

564
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: be kept on asking the guy and the guy was like, well,

565
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: that's that's blood that's been boiled over and it's cooked.

566
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: And you see that in the high and high temperature situations.

567
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: And and uh, we learned something to this day that

568
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: you know, we that we had never been taught out

569
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: of all the literature, all the times that we were

570
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: at the school, nobody ever mentioned that to us. So

571
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: we we learned that from it. And then we also

572
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: learned how to find human remains with using a screw driver. Um,

573
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: you just tap, you know, you just end up tapping

574
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: um the item, and you can tell a difference between

575
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: something that is organic or something that is not because

576
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: a lot of these burned situations, a lot of the

577
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: plastics and stuff to end up looking like like bones

578
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: and stuff, and and you know, some of the vehicle

579
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: parts and stuff, and they're like the cushions and the

580
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: foams matting, and then the rubbers and stuff. They all

581
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: sounded like, um, they all feel like they come close

582
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: if you look at it. So we were using a

583
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: screw driver and they're showing us how to do that.

584
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: And if we never had that helicopter crash, we would

585
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: have never been able to do our missions later on

586
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: and on my third tour, because what we were seeing

587
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: on my third tour was so much more catastrophic than

588
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: than what we had imagined over even for O I

589
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: F one. But I would imagine like the amount of

590
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: pressure just because of the fact that you want to

591
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: make sure that everything is kept in as good of

592
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: conditions as it possibly ken would be this type of

593
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: barrel because you know, you're talking about a hero who

594
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: fought for your country and our country, and and there's

595
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: probably something sacred to that, and you know it's it's

596
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: probably just I would imagine such high pressure to get

597
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: it right. Yes, Um, you know we I always prided

598
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: myself even through all my tours and stuff, and I

599
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: was one of the guys who wanted to get of

600
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: the guys and then being realistic and on these these scenes, um,

601
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's very rough to get to look out

602
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: there and see but I I wanted to go out

603
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: and try to do what the best job I could

604
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: absolutely do for these guys. The way that I looked

605
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 1: at is these guys had sacrificed their lives for us,

606
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: all of us, and it would be a disgrace and

607
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: dishonor if we didn't try to get of him out

608
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: of the country and a place that didn't want them there,

609
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: um and get them home to their families. So um,

610
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: that's basically essentially was what the book is about, and

611
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: how we saw it and how we operated and how

612
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: we how we did these things, and how we tried

613
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: to honor them, uh, the guys who died for us,

614
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: and how we honored them to do the absolute best

615
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: job that we could to take care of them. So,

616
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: during this first crash that took place, did you have

617
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: any relationship with any of those guys? No? No, Um.

618
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: It was an army unit and I really didn't know

619
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,479
Speaker 1: where where they were from. It was the very first

620
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: time that I've seen any kind of of us dead.

621
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: The only thing that really stuck with me is that

622
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: they were Americans in a you know, and you hope

623
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: you never have to bag up any Americans. Um. And

624
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: it was so much different than than when you were

625
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: working inside of a morgue, because that's how we used

626
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: to the used to train us, is to go out

627
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 1: and and witness autopsies or sometimes they'll let you assist

628
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: in autopsies, and and the thinking and when you're working

629
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: inside that these marks is in my mind that these

630
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: guys it was their time to go already. Um. And

631
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: it's a sterile environment, you know there at times they're

632
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 1: in a white bag. Um, they're already, Uh, they're already unclothed.

633
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: And so you see these guys and then had a

634
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: car accident or they had died of alcohol poisoning or

635
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: a heart attack or cancer or something on those lines.

636
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: So you think that this guy already lived his life. Um,

637
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: it wasn't cut short. It was his time to go.

638
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: So I didn't have any kind of guilt or any

639
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: kind of problems with that. Yeah, at first it was

640
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: kind of gross until you did the initial cuts and

641
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: and and then after a while it becomes a science experiment,

642
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: it becomes a learning opportunity. But when you're working overseas

643
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: and you're you're you're handling remains of the US remains,

644
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: and that's when it started sticking with me, because you know,

645
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: these guys are just like us. They want to go

646
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: over do it, you know, the best job they can

647
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: do and m and go home and go back home

648
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: to their families. Nobody wants to know die for their country.

649
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: Everybody you know wants to go over and kick gas

650
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: for their country and go home. Um. But you know,

651
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: when you start seeing the unit members and how it's

652
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: affecting them, and you're going through seeing their their their pictures,

653
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 1: they're the personal items and there's so many things that

654
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 1: connects you with that person or you may know the person,

655
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: you see him at a chowd hall, that kind of stuff.

656
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: But Yeah, it started really sticking with me with the

657
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: with the remains that we were seeing back in um

658
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: oh three in particularly because we were thinking, okay, this once,

659
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: once the shooting war started, we're not going to be

660
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: seeing a whole lot of cash tiaes. And and as

661
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: as much as you prepared yourself for it mentally and physically,

662
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: you don't one thing that we forgot to prepare ourselves

663
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: was was emotionally, Um, we didn't know, we didn't really

664
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: know how to deal with uh, seeing you the guys

665
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: that as when when they started, you know, getting killed

666
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: in combat. I would imagine kind of blank side of this. Yeah,

667
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: I would imagine at some point at you end up

668
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: having to work on a guy that that you personally

669
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:08,439
Speaker 1: knew right right. That was in in my third tour

670
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five where that had happened, um

671
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 1: and and believe me, it wasn't fun and it was

672
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: a uh that was on my third tour. So at

673
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: the time, this is in November of two thousand and five,

674
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: and me and his name was Masters Sartin Angus. He

675
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: was with the three seventy second Helo Squadron out of

676
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: out of Camp Pendleton, and he was their e O

677
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: d UM and steph N C O I C and

678
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: uh and we became friends. We would go over and

679
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: hang out with me and another gunny would go over

680
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: and hang out with him. And it was a chance

681
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: to get away from our high stress environment that we

682
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: were working in with with our major. And so we

683
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 1: go and hang out with him and and the he

684
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: had four or five Carl dealerships and bunch of other businesses.

685
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: They had adopted his unit. So they had all sorts

686
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: of of junk food and and all sorts of you know,

687
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: like macaroni and cheese, and and you you you asked

688
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: for it, they had it, you know. So um I

689
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: became friends with him. We ended up um working together

690
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: to make our our Thanksgiving happen. So my dad mailed

691
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 1: me out, um shoot like a deep friar, so we're

692
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: gonna deep fry some turkeys, and and he ended up

693
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: sending mess start angers and him getting ahold of a

694
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: bunch of burners, and so we had basically our Thanksgiving

695
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: was with our T units and a couple of other

696
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: units that joined in, and it was just a really

697
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: great time. And two days after that, on November, UM,

698
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: he got caught up in a getting killed by a

699
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: by a car bomb. And Uh, that was the very

700
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: first time that that I had processed anybody that I

701
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: was UM, that I really knew, knew really well, and

702
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: and I was not prepared for it, because out of

703
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: all the hundreds of times that you practiced for it,

704
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: and you try to prepare yourself, you hope that would

705
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: never happen. And when it happened, UM, we didn't know

706
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: how to take it. All of us across the board,

707
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: all of us inside the mortuary fairs collection point, we

708
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: didn't know how to take it. UM. So we just

709
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: did the absolute best job that we could. I would

710
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: imagine at some point having to do the most more

711
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: of it of jobs, you know, in the military at

712
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: this time, when when there's a major war going on,

713
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: I would think at some point you probably start to question,

714
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: like why were we here and those type of things. UM.

715
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: I didn't think that when I was over. UM, I

716
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: just looked at it this way. UM, no matter what

717
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 1: we have a job to do, it's not my it's

718
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 1: not my business to get into the policies. Those are

719
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: for the policy makers, those are the people that sent

720
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: us here. Um. I looked at it as, all right,

721
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: this is our job. How how best can we do

722
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: our job? What do we need to change to make

723
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: it better? Um. I was more of like putting how

724
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: to make their our mission work and how to get

725
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: our job done the best way that we could that

726
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: possibly do it. So I really didn't have a problem

727
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: with us being there. Um. I just had more of

728
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: how do we do our job better to take care

729
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: of the guys who are here? Um. And And now

730
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to get wrapped up around why at

731
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: some point we will get into the actual American flag thing,

732
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 1: because I think that's such a great story. But first

733
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering as I'm hearing about all this, you know,

734
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: having to work on bodies of guys who fought for

735
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: the country and then eventually guys that you did know,

736
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: at what point coming back does the alcohol issue come

737
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: come into play? Um? It was pretty much maybe three

738
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: months after I came home, maybe four months after I

739
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: came home, and it was basically me trying to find

740
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: how to suppress my anxieties so I can go to sleep, Um,

741
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: how to how to suppress my dreaming? When I closed

742
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: my eyes, because the bad thing about being in in

743
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: coming home and dreaming, you know when you when you

744
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: finally do fall asleep. And to me, I felt like

745
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: I was trapped in the most horrible of nightmares that

746
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: I couldn't get out. And it was just basically repeating

747
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: over and over and over again. And and I tried

748
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: drinking so I can take away my anxiety and be

749
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: able to knock out my dreaming. But it was a

750
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: double edged sword because sometimes it would work, but then

751
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: there's times it wouldn't work, and then I would be

752
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: I would drink myself sober, but then I was you know,

753
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: everything that I tried avoiding was sitting right here in

754
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: front of my face. And um, and it became an

755
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: everyday thing. Um. I would go to work basically drunk

756
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: from the night before, and and I would be out

757
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: there on the street delivering mail, driving vehicles and stuff,

758
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: being totally drunk from the night before, still still feeling

759
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: the after effects. UM. And I that's where everything started

760
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: feeling like it was out of control. Um. And and

761
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: no matter what I did, I did. I couldn't get

762
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: a handle of what was going on, and at the time,

763
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: I felt like I would the only one that was

764
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: dealing with this stuff. That I still had friends, that

765
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: was in the Marines, that was still deploying UM and

766
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: still going forward, and I felt like I was the

767
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: one that was broken, and I was ashamed of being

768
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: in the situation that I was in. UM that and

769
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 1: I also got to sound so too crazy, but I

770
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: I felt like that the dead followed me UM, and

771
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: I felt like I was contaminated by all this death

772
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: and evil and stuff because everything I was a part

773
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: of everything that I witnessed and stuff when I came

774
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: home UM. And that was really one thing that really

775
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: led me to start writing because I didn't I couldn't

776
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 1: understand what was going on. I need to get a

777
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: grasp what was happening around me or it was happening

778
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah. I've heard from so many guys on

779
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: the show that writing was therapeutic for them, which it

780
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: sounds like it was for you, of course. But I'm wondering, like,

781
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: what else did you do to get over this? Did

782
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: you have to go to rehab at some point? How

783
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: did you how did you deal with the way that you.

784
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: I ended up. I didn't have to go to rehab

785
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: for for my drinking UM. I was going intensive cognitive

786
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: therapy with with the with a therapist at the v A.

787
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: And I was lucky that this guy had served over

788
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: in Iraq as well, and he was with the mental

789
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: health assessment teams where they were putting them in trailblazers

790
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: and they were moving them from FOB to FOB, so

791
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: he knew exactly what roads I was talking about, what

792
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 1: basses I was talking about, UM, and so I got

793
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: lucky with him, and basically he ended up working to

794
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: tone down my my PTSD where it made it manageable

795
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: and where I didn't feel like I needed to drink

796
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 1: as much UM. And so it kind of took the

797
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: pressure off of because I was drinking for for basically

798
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: to suppress my anxiety. And and seeing him with with

799
00:46:54,800 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: therapy with my PTSD therapy and then taking meds to

800
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: help me with my anxiety, it really helped me get

801
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: away from wanting to drink as much UM. I still

802
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: tip a few back every once in a while, but

803
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: I don't go nowhere near where I was before. That's

804
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: good man, Well, it seems like you found something to

805
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: help you through this, between writing, between therapy, and I

806
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: think it's important that when you go through these things,

807
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, it really does build us stronger. And then

808
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: you'll meet other people going through as you said that

809
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: that extreme of I don't want to be here, and

810
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: you could say, hey, I've been there, man, And it

811
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: means a lot more to someone than talking to someone

812
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: who can't relate. Right. Yeah. When I go over and

813
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: talk to other people and I just tell them what

814
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: worked for me, you know, I can't give them a

815
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: magic bullet to their their to their PTSD problems, I

816
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: say that this is what helps me. Um. Everybody's different.

817
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: Everybody has different dynamics, different situations, different upbringings. So what

818
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 1: they can be uh um, you know, the influenced their

819
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: there the way that the handle things. But I said,

820
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: this is what I did, and it made me feel better. Um.

821
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: He said, you can start writing. You don't have to

822
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: show anybody. Uh if you were just wanted to keep

823
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 1: it your thing. But for me, it was a way

824
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: of I wouldn't say overcoming it, but it made it

825
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 1: where it took the pressure out of those those situations,

826
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: those uh uh this feelings and everything, so I end

827
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: up it made it manmanageable enough where I could talk

828
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: about it, where I can write about it, where I can, um,

829
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: you know, show my wife why I would have a

830
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: problem around um um Thanksgiving every year, you know, and

831
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: because there was no frame of reference for her when

832
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: I came home. And I can honestly say that writing

833
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 1: also saved my marriage because there's no frame of reference.

834
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: She can turn on the news and see it on

835
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: the news, but it doesn't really uh, it doesn't really

836
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: fully describe what it's like to be there, or you

837
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: turn on a movie and that's not going to do it.

838
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: But she was able to pick up um different situations

839
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: like the day I got blown up, and and she

840
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: can pick it up and understand, um, okay, what had happened,

841
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: you know, when we were out there, and why I

842
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: have anxieties of when cars would pass this by, um

843
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, in different situations like when when mass startangus

844
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: got killed, um you know, and how I was talk

845
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: about it for a long time. But once I was

846
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: able to write it down, she read it and she

847
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: goes she would understand it. So it gave our our

848
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 1: marriage a second chance. I hate to say this, but um,

849
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 1: getting blown up wasn't the worst thing that happened to me,

850
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: you know. It was it was the things off my

851
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: third tour that that really took the cake. Um, getting

852
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: blown up, Yeah, I think my lucky stars God was

853
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: looking out for us that day. Um, I shouldn't be here.

854
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: Uh as close as big as that bomb was, as

855
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: close as I was to it. Um, but you know,

856
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: I thank God that that he was looking out for us.

857
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: But like I said, my hang ups wasn't so much

858
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: getting blown up. It was dealing the the with the

859
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 1: survivor's guilt of of all the guys that we had processed. Um,

860
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: getting to know their stories as they're going through their

861
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:29,399
Speaker 1: pockets and losing some friends as we're over there. That's

862
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: where most of my my PTSD and and a lot

863
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: of my deals are. Um. You know, it's kind of

864
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: weird to say that getting blown up. Oh yeah, it

865
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: wasn't a much of a big deal. It was a

866
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 1: big deal, but um, there was. They're bigger deals than

867
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 1: as Maybe I just haven't had a chance to really Um,

868
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: I'm working through the third tour stuff before I get

869
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 1: down to the second tour stuff. But to me getting

870
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: blown up wasn't as big of a deal as as

871
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 1: as you know, losing those other guys that we did

872
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: on my third deployment. Yeah, and everybody's going to process

873
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: different parts of their life different than others. And I mean,

874
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:10,919
Speaker 1: you've had to process so much. I'd love to get

875
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: into though. Actually the flags on the guys when they

876
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: come back home and the story you were telling me

877
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: as we discussed this last night, and the reason that

878
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: you see the flag draped over the coffin on on

879
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: the cover of the book, which by the way, is

880
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 1: a great illustration. Well, thank you so much. Um. The

881
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: story really begins in two thousand and four when I

882
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 1: was on my second tour when I got blown up. Um.

883
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:44,280
Speaker 1: The story is that that I was attached to Weapons

884
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: Company Thurbosian fourth Marines UM and and my job then

885
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: coming from a military police company. They were using me

886
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: and and four other Marines to be UM to teach

887
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: Iraqi police how to do their jobs. And so we

888
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 1: were operating over in Adizai Rat and being with three four,

889
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: I end up meeting a lot of guys that were there. Um.

890
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: One of them was first Lieutenant Oscar Hemenez UM and

891
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: then you know Lance Corporatory Gray and a couple of

892
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: other you know other guys. So I got to eat

893
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: m R. E's get the medium talk to them. That

894
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: kind of thing is we're moving up to the dam

895
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: and um. And then when I get blown up in

896
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: March of two thousand and four, I get met it

897
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: backed out and had to go out and get my

898
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: skin graphs and everything like that. UM. And then UM,

899
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: I was on my convalescently even April of two thousand

900
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: and four, and that's when they hung the guys over

901
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: on the bridges over there, the black Water guys on

902
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: the bridges and um, that's when all these marine units

903
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: started moving into Flush and did Operation Vigilant Resolve. WHI

904
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: was the first push into Fallujah. And when I was home,

905
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: I didn't pay any attention to what was going on

906
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: the news. I figured I almost got killed. Um, I

907
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: need to dedicate this time. I'm on convalescent leave with

908
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: my family, so I knew that flushes kicked off, but

909
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: I wasn't paying any attention to it. So when I

910
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: came back to when I got sent back to twenty

911
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: nine Palms, UM, I found out that a lot of

912
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: the guys that I knew had had gotten killed. One

913
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: of them was Oscar Jimenez and UM, and I thought

914
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 1: that that UM, if I ever had a chance to

915
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 1: honor them, you know, this is what I wanted to do.

916
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: So fast forward to two thousand and five and now

917
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 1: I'm a staff sergeant and I'm in charge of all

918
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: mortary affairs operations in a place called Alt Economy Rack,

919
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: which is a big logistical hub between Felusian Romandi and UM.

920
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: And so the very first day that we were doing

921
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 1: a riptoa that we're watching the unit that we were replacing,

922
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 1: UM watched them process and I wanted to make sure

923
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: my guys get stomach this kind of work and all

924
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. So we're watching these guys as

925
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 1: they're working. And it was a U. S. Army major

926
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: out of Grand Rapids, Michigan. He was a reservist that

927
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: was out there looking at the roads and trying to

928
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: fill in potholes or the craters that was left over

929
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: from the from the I E. D. S. And as

930
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: he wanted walked up to one, he he ended up

931
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: blowing one up and getting him. So UM they were

932
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: processing him and and at the very end I noticed

933
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 1: that they took a an American flag straight out of

934
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: a cardboard box, placed it on top of the transfer case,

935
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 1: which is the air the mobile air coffin which is

936
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: air pressurized and stuff. They put him in there and

937
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,240
Speaker 1: they put the flag on top, and they just tied

938
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: a white cord around it, and that was it. It

939
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:59,839
Speaker 1: still had all its creases from when it was left

940
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: in box. It still had the threads all over it.

941
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: Um that the loose threads and stuff. And and I

942
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 1: thought that it was messed up that we were sending

943
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: guys home this way. Um it was. There's nothing against

944
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: those guys that we were replacing, because this was the

945
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: way it's always been done. And I thought that that

946
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: it was totally messed up that the guys that I

947
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 1: knew with three four who came through that very building

948
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 1: to go home, Um was they were being sent home,

949
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: were sent home with transfer cases that with their flags

950
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: looking that way. If that is the flag that is

951
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 1: eventually goes to his loved ones, to his kids, to

952
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: his his family, you know, his wife and his parents,

953
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,439
Speaker 1: I want that flag to look at the absolute best.

954
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: To me, it was a we needed to honor them

955
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: the best we could because they died for us. So

956
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: at that moment um, you know, when whenever we took over,

957
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 1: I went down to the p X and bought their

958
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: only can of starts that they had in the p X,

959
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: their only can of starts, their only ironing board, and

960
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 1: they're only iron because you know, you're not supposed to

961
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 1: use starch in combat. And so I took that and

962
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: next day I showed up. There's two Kansas stars. I

963
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: bought that. Then next day was four days. So every

964
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: day I was going down, they were doubling it up.

965
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: And eventually the lady was like, UM, what are you doing.

966
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: You're the only one that's buying starch, and why are

967
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: you buying starch? And I say, I'm ironing, uh and

968
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: and starching and ironing every American flag. Man. Man. I

969
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: I told her that I worked in mortuary affairs and um,

970
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 1: and that we were we were doing that for all

971
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: the guys that we were sending home. UM. So what

972
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: had happened was we we ironing started all these American flags,

973
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: and I came up with a way to fold, a

974
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: new way of folding to put it onto the transfer case,

975
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: because the way it was before, you had a danger

976
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: of the flag touching the ground in So what we

977
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: did first is we tied a white cord around the

978
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,760
Speaker 1: transfer case but to slip knots so we can tighten

979
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: it and loosen it will And then we laid the

980
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 1: crisply iron flag on top and tucked in the both sides,

981
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: then pulled it taut and then we we tucked it

982
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: in on either ends. And um, so we did all

983
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 1: of the remains that way, and we got it down

984
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: to a point where um, we had a a a

985
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: major in the in the Marine Corps who was picking

986
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: up the remains at night and they see one thirty.

987
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: He comes up to me and he goes, I want

988
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: to let you know how much it means to us

989
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: to take these guys home, because you're the only ones

990
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: the entire country who are who has uh the irons

991
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: and starches the flag and has this way, and it

992
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: really means a lot to us to see that you

993
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: guys go above and beyond, don't know what is asked

994
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: of you. Um. So flash forward two thousand and nine.

995
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: I'm home. I get a phone call from one of

996
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 1: my marines, um Stargean Kinley, and he goes, hey, hey, bus,

997
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 1: there's um I want to let you know that. There

998
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: was this brigadier general over in Ramstein and him and

999
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: his entourage, we're watching all these remains coming off the

1000
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: back of a c one. They're standing there saluting, and

1001
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: the first one comes off and it's done the old way.

1002
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: The second one comes off and it's done the old way,

1003
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: and the third one comes off and it's done your way.

1004
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: And he goes, damn it, I knew marines did that.

1005
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna find out who who did that. I'm

1006
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: going to let them know what it means to me,

1007
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: and into my entourage. So he end up Calum Mill

1008
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: chief one officer over in Anacostia, and she was like, Yester,

1009
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: we call that the Bustler method. Staff startain Buster started

1010
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: that in two thousand and five, and we've been doing them, uh,

1011
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: for every remains that they that the Marines have been

1012
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: doing ever since. So he goes, um, that means um,

1013
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 1: it meant a lot to us, and to see that

1014
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: we're doing that for our our marines. It goes from

1015
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: now on to the end of the Marine Corps when

1016
00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 1: the country no longer needs a Marine Corps, that every

1017
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: remains that the Marine Corps does. This is the way

1018
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,959
Speaker 1: they're they're gonna come home. And so the Marine Corps

1019
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: adopted it. Then so then um so did the Army,

1020
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: then the Air Force, and then then the Navy, and

1021
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: then so so then on it's now the standards. So

1022
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 1: if you see any remains they are coming home from uh,

1023
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: from battlefields across the world. This is uh, this is

1024
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: what the flag is. So you're paying attention to when

1025
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: Benghazi happened. Um, those those four remains that were coming

1026
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: back home, we're done in this style. Um. If you

1027
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: look at the guys are coming home now from North

1028
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: Korea with the American flags on it, how it's been

1029
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: crisply iron and starched and and there then it's been

1030
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: placed on top. That's my fold. Um. I never got

1031
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: any accolades from it. I never got an out of boy,

1032
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, thank you, sto medals or nothing. But I

1033
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: didn't do it for that. I did it for Oscar Jimenez,

1034
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: and I did it for Tory Gray and all the

1035
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: guys that I knew with three four, but also um,

1036
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: all the people who had sacrificed their lives since then. Um,

1037
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: they deserve to be sent home in the best fashion

1038
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: that we could bestow upon them and UM, and I'm

1039
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: so happy that it taught on and that I had

1040
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: my little fifteen minutes of fame in and making sure

1041
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: it happened that way. Yeah, I think that's an excellent story.

1042
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: And to see that the legacy of of what you

1043
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: decided to do um has remained into this day. So

1044
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: I think that's that's actually a good way to wrap

1045
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: this up because, as we've said before, you know this,

1046
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 1: we've had so many authors on who have these stories

1047
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: that are just like, you know, there's the negative, but

1048
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 1: there's also like these great times that they had serving

1049
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: their country, And this book, I think it's safe to say,

1050
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: is a little darker or a lot darker than most

1051
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 1: of those. But I think the fact that you got

1052
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 1: to do something that that is going to have a

1053
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: legacy that carries on is something to be really proud of.

1054
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: So once again, the book is no tougher duty, no

1055
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: greater honor. A memoir of a mortuary affairs marine uh,

1056
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: entirely self published, which I was talking about on the

1057
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 1: fun last night, is really the way to go about things.

1058
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: There's a lot of these we've talked about in a

1059
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: previous show before, but these like fake publishers out there

1060
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 1: that are having people pay to put a book out

1061
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: when you could do it your own on on your

1062
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: own on Amazon. You just have to have the motivation

1063
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: to write the thing, get a great cover like you did,

1064
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, not be ashamed to put your

1065
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 1: story out there. On top of that, a portion of

1066
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: the proceeds for each book go to benefit the e O. D.

1067
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: Warrior Foundation Separate five Fund as well as w w

1068
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: I A UM, which is great. So I think it

1069
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: all comes around that that beyond just your experience, is

1070
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: going to be able to give back to other guys

1071
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: who have seen some terrible things in combat. You're also

1072
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 1: giving back with this book. Yep. Yeah. Two of those,

1073
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: uh Surperfised one and Wounded Warriors and Action Foundation. Both

1074
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 1: of those are our charities that that I have benefited

1075
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: from UM as long as well as a bunch of

1076
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: other guys that I know, UM the e O. D.

1077
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: Warrior Foundation that was chosen by the wives of the

1078
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: Star Angus and another gentleman, staff sarre In Richardson UM.

1079
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: I I asked them their wives is a which charity

1080
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: would you want me to donate proceeds too? And they

1081
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: both chose e O. D. Warrior Foundation because they helped

1082
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: them when they found out that their their husbands had passed. So, um, yeah,

1083
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: we donate to those those three charities there, uh, because

1084
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: they're outstanding in and I stand by them. That's great.

1085
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: And then beyond that, if people want to follow you

1086
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: on Twitter, it's Bustler Underscore. See. The website is No

1087
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: Tougher Duty dot com. The book is available on Amazon.

1088
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 1: No Tougher Duty, No Greater Honor. A memoir of a

1089
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: mortuary affairs marine. I mean, even though we've discussed a

1090
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: lot in this past hour, there's a lot more to

1091
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: be seen in this book. So pick the book up,

1092
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: support a veteran, and support these great charities. Anything else

1093
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: you want to mention before we uh we call this

1094
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 1: the show. Yeah, I also had it on on Audible

1095
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: as well, and um and I think that's about it. Yeah,

1096
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: you were telling me about the guy who did it

1097
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 1: for the Audible, which is a pretty cool story. Yeah,

1098
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: John Prude, and he's an outstanding guy. He is the

1099
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:35,439
Speaker 1: same narrator who had done Um American Sniper, and he's

1100
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 1: the same one he had done Carnivore. He's done over

1101
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: two d books, and and actually he only lives like

1102
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: twenty minutes from my house, which is which is pretty cool. Yeah,

1103
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: we became friends and so we hang out every once

1104
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: in a while. And yeah, he did the book, so

1105
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: that's awesome. That's cool. I mean, if you have a

1106
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 1: guy like that doing the audio book, it's safe to

1107
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: say it's a it's a really well done audio book. Um.

1108
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 1: And then it's great that you were like, hey, is

1109
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 1: on and got to choose the guy who who read it. Yeah. Yeah,

1110
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 1: so yeah, everything's great, man, I'm I'm so happy with

1111
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: how everything's turning out. Believe me. Being self published is

1112
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 1: a lot of work. But I like having the having

1113
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: the hands on and and and having pushed it into

1114
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 1: the directions that I wanted to go instead of having

1115
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: somebody saying say this is where it needs to go

1116
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 1: and then not really working out for me. Yeah, I'm sure, man.

1117
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 1: And and it's it's a tough job to do. And

1118
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: and if it's just, you know, a first self published novel,

1119
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: it's not exactly going to make you a millionaire. It's

1120
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: really like a labor of love. I'm actually wondering, like,

1121
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: beyond that, are you still working at the post office.

1122
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: Are you doing something else at this point? No, But

1123
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: I came home. I was rated as total and permanent,

1124
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 1: and so that afforded me the chance to to really right.

1125
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: And so now I'm finding that I really liked write.

1126
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 1: So I want to get this out there and basically

1127
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 1: making money on its own and and I'm thinking about

1128
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: maybe picking up and and becoming a ghostwriter for other

1129
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: people as well. Um, there's um, the cool thing about

1130
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: this community is that you meet guys all the time

1131
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: with really great stories of resiliency and and and and

1132
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 1: and being tough and tenacious and not letting their there

1133
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: um handicap. I wouldn't even say, I like to say

1134
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: handicapped their situations. You know, I got a friend of

1135
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 1: mine who lost both the ladies in Afghanistan and you

1136
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 1: can't slow him down, you can't stop them and uh,

1137
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of great stories of of dedication

1138
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: and selfless service and and and so yeah, I like

1139
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 1: to participate in that help because get some of these

1140
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 1: their stories out. That's awesome. All right, Well, appreciate you

1141
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: coming on. If you're ever in New York, hit us

1142
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 1: up and maybe we could have you in studio. But

1143
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 1: this this was great and and I wish you continued

1144
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: success and I hope a lot of our listeners pick

1145
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 1: this up because it's it's, without a doubt, a very

1146
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: unique book. Thank you so much. Yeah, great having Chris

1147
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: on there as always. Please follow us on Twitter, on

1148
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 1: Instagram at SOFTWREP Radio. I have that great video up

1149
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 1: on Instagram of Jim west Or just like casually talking

1150
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 1: here in the studio and he's waving around his knife

1151
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: and demonstrating and the way he works a knife is

1152
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: pretty amazing just as he's casually talking. You say, I

1153
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 1: haven't seen that video yet, go to the Instagram at

1154
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: SOFTWAREP Radio. Uh, As I always mentioned, leave us a

1155
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts, going to help us to get

1156
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: some more great guests on get our visibility up. Uh,

1157
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: you know the fact that we hoist Gracie on last show.

1158
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 1: We have a lot of big names out there who

1159
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 1: are enthusiastic, uh when they get to come on here.

1160
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 1: So I love seeing that, and uh, I love seeing

1161
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 1: that you guys continue to check us out every week

1162
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: twice a week means a lot to me. And if

1163
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 1: you have any questions or or any comments for the show,

1164
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 1: shoot over an email. Uh And that's soft Rep dot

1165
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 1: Radio at soft rep dot com. Check out the news site,

1166
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 1: the news rep dot com. Uh and if you want

1167
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: to follow me on Twitter, I am at Ian Skato

1168
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: and we'll be back next show with Ernie Emerson and

1169
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 1: Jim West. That's gonna be a good one. You've been

1170
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: listening to self rep Radio. New episodes up every Wednesday

1171
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 1: and Friday for all of the great content from our

1172
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: veteran journalists. Join us and become a team room member

1173
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: today at soft rep dot com. Follow the show on

1174
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at slt rep radio, and be sure

1175
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:48,520
Speaker 1: to also check out the Power of Thought podcast hosted

1176
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 1: by Hurricane Group CEO and Navy Seals Sniper instructor Brandon Webb.