1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: My name is Eva Longoria and I am and welcome 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores our past 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: and present through food. On every episode, we'll talk about 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: the history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages. 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: So make yourself at home. Even I'm not a dessert fan, 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: but I do like chocolate. I love chocolate. I have 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: to have a piece of chocolate every single day, every 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: single day. Always chocolate this month, really every day, like 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: every day at some point of the day, I need, 10 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: like I love Mexican hot chocolate. The bars, the bar, 11 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: yes around, so chocolate. We're doing chocolate today. I brought 12 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: some show and tell. Yeah, I know, because you know, 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know what that was really, but I used 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: it in Mexico. You didn't have one of these at 15 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: home growing up. I did, but I didn't know what 16 00:00:53,080 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: it was. Mata mosca to kill the fly. I know 17 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: it does look like a weapon. It's called a molinio. 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: This is they has a wooden stick in her hand 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: with a bunch of different round rings on it. And 20 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: not to hit Eva, although I potentially could, but no, 21 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a beautiful object. It's always made 22 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: of wood. It's always made of wood. It's in every 23 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: Mexican kitchen basically, but it's actually Spanish. The Spaniards actually 24 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: made this. There were similar objects pre colonial Mexico that 25 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: had the same purpose. So I'm just going to describe 26 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: this and what does that mean? Like a little mollino, 27 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: like a little mill, a little mill, little mill molino. 28 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: And it's this this object, what would you say? It's 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: about a foot a foot and half long stele base. Yes, 30 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: carved out of one piece of wood. It's one piece 31 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: of wood. Stop. This an hard piece in itself. They're 32 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: one of a kind. All of them are different, their 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: different side this, Every single one of them is different. 34 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: One piece of wood, and it has these two rings. 35 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes it has a lot more. Sometimes it doesn't have rings, 36 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: and sometimes it doesn't. Yeah, but oftentimes it usually it 37 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: has at least one. And there are these two rings 38 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: that are that you could just kind of move them around. 39 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: The sole purpose is to stick it in your chocolate 40 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: and do this. Okay, but how is it Spanish if 41 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: chocolate is from messo America. Chocolate is native to Mesoamerica 42 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: and it was consumed as a drink by aristocrats and 43 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: no balls and priests for centuries here in the Americas. 44 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: The Mayans were the first to really develop this drinking chocolate. 45 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: The drink itself, the chocolate was for the body, but 46 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: the foam that rose to the top of the chocolate 47 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: that was for the soul. So that was very desirable. 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: And originally they would take the chocolate import you know, 49 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: from one vessel to another to get the phone, to 50 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: get the phone, and then they would use corn cobs 51 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: that were carved to create this foam. And also they 52 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: have these objects that are basically like a stick, and 53 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: then what looks like a claw too, like a whisk. 54 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: It's a whisk in the sense that it creates it 55 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: creates air, and the airs create bubbles. So yes, and 56 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: then the friend made these chocolate pots you know in 57 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: Christmas America that they were clay. By the time we 58 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: get to France, they were silver, like silver silver. But 59 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: rather than doing this and having this large thing, you know, 60 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: would and put it in there on roll it with 61 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: your hands, they had the lids of these chocolate pots. 62 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: They're called chocolate tears. They had a miniature version of 63 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: a molinillo called a mussire, and rather than taking your 64 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: hands and kind of doing this, you just take your 65 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: two fingers and move it back and forth to make 66 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: sure that you you keep it moving and create these bubbles. 67 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: So every culture had something, you know, similar, but the 68 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: foam that didn't really go away. Here's the other thing 69 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: is people think chocolate is sweet. It's not. It's not. 70 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: It's very bitter. In fact, the word the nowl word 71 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: for chocolate, chocolate, latal means bitter water, bitter water, bitter 72 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: water chocolate. I have some chocolate right here, which is 73 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: this one? These are already rested, So you know, I 74 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: love that. You know, I went, I was with my 75 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: and did you go and make the chocolate? Like fifth 76 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: generation chocolate makers? And it was a job only held 77 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: by women. That's super interesting. And this guy that I 78 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: met and the CEO, now he's the first male in 79 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: five generations to take over the business. Really yes, I 80 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: was like what and he goes, yeah, chocolate was only 81 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: made by the women and we weren't allowed. That's so 82 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: interesting because for the Mayans as well, and the aspects, 83 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: only the women. And there's the make it only women 84 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: the minds and the Aztecs roasted, yes, they make it 85 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: the same way. Basically, it's it's the tree, right, it 86 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: only grows if you imagine a globe, right, it's like 87 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: the zero is in the equator, so twenty degrees north 88 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: and south of the equator. It's the only place that 89 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: cacal grows, just just twenty degrees north and south of 90 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: the equator. So it's very very specific. It has to 91 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: be you know, tropical exactly. So it's just this small 92 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: area and it's a tree, so treasically these pods, I 93 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: have one, right, he is beautiful. Get this. I just 94 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: I ordered it online. It it's like a teaching many 95 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: how many seeds are in here? About twenty? I didn't 96 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: go to the fields. Yeah, it's this tree. It grows 97 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: to forty feet and it takes four to five months 98 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: to produce a pod, and then it takes another month 99 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: to to ripen. And then you open up this pot. 100 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: It looks like a shriveled, like a tiny shriveled. And 101 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: then you open it up and there are these seeds 102 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: which they're called the cocao beans, but technically their seeds 103 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: and these are in this white pulp, so they're removed 104 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: from the pub and they're fermented and then they're toasted, 105 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: which I have this bag here of toasted spitter and 106 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: it's super super but it almost about it. Do you 107 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: eat the whole? You peel it? You want to peel it, 108 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: you don't want to eat the skin. But that's good. 109 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: I wonder if that one was already peeled, super super 110 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: super bitter. Look at that crunch. It's so good now, 111 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: I mean I was looking at the list of the 112 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: top you know places that chocolate is produced. It's Ivory Coast, Ghana, Indonesia, Nigeria, Ecuador, Cameroon, Brazil, 113 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: Serre on A, Peru, the Dominican Republic, but Central America, 114 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, Mexico, they're they're not on there. And this 115 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: is where this is where it's from. Well where what's 116 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: the other big cacao growing? Medagascar? The Ivory Coast the 117 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: most most chocolate now, like chocolate comes from the Ivory Yeah, 118 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: why do you think that is? Well, it's the same 119 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: thing that we talked about, like with vanilla and with 120 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: all of these other ingredients. So, coca is a plant 121 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: native to meso America. Meso America, Yeah, meso America, Guatemala, Mexico. 122 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: That's where it's from. And they're not part of the 123 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: of the global market. But what about the spiritual origins 124 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: of cocaw Oh, yes, chocolate the gift from the gods. 125 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,559 Speaker 1: Should we tell them now or after a quick break, 126 00:07:48,760 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: let's do it after. To me, historically, I feel like 127 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: the Aztecs made it famous. And maybe it's because the 128 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,239 Speaker 1: legend of markt Zuma. Yeah, I feel like markte Zuma 129 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: made chocolate famous. Maybe that's the legend. He used to 130 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: drink fifty cups of hot chocolate from a gold goblet. 131 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: So maybe that's what you're thinking. Maybe that's what you're 132 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: thinking hearing it and how it was the drink of 133 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,119 Speaker 1: the gods. It was the drink of the Aristotra, saved 134 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: kings and pre conquest. The Mayans were the first to 135 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: really make this as a drink, so they would add its. No, 136 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: the Mayans, Toltecs, so the old mix first, they all 137 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: did it, but the Miyans were the first to really 138 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: drink cop but the Mayans drink it. The Mayans drank it. 139 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: The Mayan's developed this this drink. The Latin word for 140 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: chocolate is theobroma, which means the food of the gods, 141 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: and it was literally like the food of the gods. 142 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: For the Mayans. The very first tree that ever grew 143 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: was a cacao tree. I mean, it's the two most 144 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: important crops in Mexico, corn and chocolate. It chocolate, and 145 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: it's this sort of metaphor for you know, spiritual transcendence. 146 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: It's like the roots of the tree, you know, have 147 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: their roots in the underworld, and then there's this space 148 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: for the for us, and then it reaches out to 149 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: the heavens. So it's this really symbolic try. The first 150 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: tree is a cocou tree, so they would take it, 151 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, grow it, peel it, basically go through this 152 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: whole process of fermenting it and toasting it and then 153 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: peeling it and then grinding it in the method. Then 154 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: and when you wind it in the method that it 155 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: creates a paste. It creates it not dry. It's because 156 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: so much moisture in it. It's because of the cocoa 157 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: butter that's in it, this sort of natural cream nous. 158 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: When you buy it, it leaves this this nice sort 159 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: of film in your mouth. And it's the cocoa butter 160 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: that's just come from cocao. Cocoa butter is from coca. 161 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 1: That's what I used when I was pregnant. Ah, it's 162 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: really good for your skin to to avoid you know, 163 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: stretch marks and all of this. This is what it 164 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: comes from. And this is it's so creamy, so it's ground. 165 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: Why is it in there? Why is cocoa butter inside 166 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: the seed of a chocolate plant. That's what it is. 167 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: That's what makes it. This is what taste. I know, 168 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: it's crazy because cocoa butter also smells cocon nutty, so 169 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: I assumed it was cocoa butter from a cocoa nut. Yeah. No, 170 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: And I was always wondered why was spelled zero zero an? 171 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: It's this, This is the cream is The Discoveries were 172 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,599 Speaker 1: making so many health benefits. It does, it does, and 173 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: actually the Mayans used to use it medicinally to treat fever, 174 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: coughs and also discomfort during pregnancy. They would have chocolate, 175 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, pre Hispanic culture. Every indigenous culture drank it. Yes, 176 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: said to have fifty cups. And of course when the 177 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: Spaniards arrived, that's where they were and this is the 178 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: who they were conquering, and this is what they were drinking. 179 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: But it was also was it the Spaniards or the 180 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: Aztecs that used it as a commodity like a currency. 181 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: It was a currency. No, it was the Aztecs because 182 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: the conquest came. Yeah, they used to use it as 183 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: current money. So there it was coins. It was coins. 184 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: There was no the Aztecs didn't have money like it was. 185 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: Everything was on the barter system. If you had, you know, 186 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: cocoa beans, it was very valuable. And there was actually 187 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: a list of prices still a few years post conquest 188 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: that tells you how much you commodity prices. So you 189 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: could buy a turkey for a hundred cocal beans. You 190 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: could buy a turkey egg. Oh wow, they ate turkey 191 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: eggs for three cocal beans. One avocado was one cacalbean, 192 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: but large tomato or twenty small tomatoes, one cocal bean. 193 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: Ice cream for twenty you could have one cup of 194 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: ice cream twenty cocalbeans. You could have ice cream. Who 195 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: was making ice cream? They were making ice cream? That's crazy, 196 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: how there's no ice. They were going to the volcanoes 197 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: around Mexico City, the volcanoes, snowy volcanoes. There was a 198 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: group of merchants called pas and they used to go 199 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: up this volcano and then pack the ice into these 200 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: little backpacks and bring it down to sell at the 201 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 1: market that had this grand market of that was sort 202 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: of the most incredible market. And they used to flavor 203 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: it with fruit. They used to flavor with bull or ice. 204 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: Snow snow, snow snow, sorry, starting they used to get 205 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: the snow from the mountains. The snow. They used to 206 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: pack it really really really well and make it down. 207 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: But imagine if you know, for three you could buy 208 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: an egg twenty a cup of ice cream, which just 209 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: shows you, like how just how expensive that was. Yeah, 210 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: and we know you know so much. I mean, there 211 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: are these really interesting you know code axes that are 212 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: these manuscripts. Only like sixteen survive. Most things were destroyed. 213 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: The Codic Snile is one of sixteen that still exists, 214 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: and it shows a cup of fummy chocolate being exchanged 215 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: at a wedding of two nobles. So it was part 216 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: of you know, the dowry. Sometimes how many cacaw beans 217 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,599 Speaker 1: did your daughter? I know, it's so funny, it's so 218 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: it's an interesting The historians also said it was cocaw 219 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: was so valuable as currency that archaeologists have found counterfeit 220 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: cacaw beans yeah, like fake money, fake money count fake money, 221 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: carved avocado pits and they used to put the shell 222 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: of the peel, they used to put it on there. Yeah. 223 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: So when chocolate made its way to Europe post conquest, 224 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: the first stop was Spain. Every time that it went 225 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: from Mesoamerica to a different European country, it changed and 226 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: it eventually evolved to what to the chocolate bar. We 227 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: didn't have a chocolate bar until the nineteenth century, so 228 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: was a drink reserved for aristocracy for centuries in the Americas. 229 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 1: In Mexico, when it made its way to Spain, the 230 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: Spanish added sugar to it and cinnamon to it, and 231 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: also sometimes almonds or different nuts. From there, it made 232 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: its way to Italy. Costumo de Medici tasted it at 233 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: a bull fight, and it made its way to Italy, 234 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: and the Italians added things like orange peel and jazz maine, 235 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: and they really started experimenting with different flavors. When it 236 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: made its way to Italy, there was this question like 237 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: is it a food, is it a drink? Is it 238 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: okay to drink it? When you know during Lent? Does 239 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: it break the fast? Like it was all of these 240 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: the church got really involved. I love the church always 241 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: gets involved. Church always gets involved. And then it made 242 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: its way to France in the seventeenth century and it 243 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: became very popular at Versailles under Louis the fifteen. You know, 244 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: his wife Maria was Spanish. She grew up drinking it 245 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: in Spain. So milk wasn't added to ch kolid until 246 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: the eighteenth century. I find it so interesting that for 247 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of years it was only a drink, 248 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: It was only drink. Only when did it become a bar? 249 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: What year? Nineteenth century? So not, I mean so exactly. 250 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: Fry and sons. Well, the Dutch and the British had 251 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: come up with different processes extracting the cocoa butter and 252 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: then getting the cocoa powder, so they started experimenting. But 253 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: it was the Dutch that really made the first bar, 254 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: and it was course and it was a little bit bitter, 255 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: but it was revolutionary and it wasn't until Cadburies still 256 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: around with Cadburies chocolate and they became the sole purveyor 257 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: for Queen Victoria, who was a total chocoholic. And they 258 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: were amazing at marketing. They were first to package, you know, 259 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: chocolate a little heart shaped box. You know there were 260 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: there were master marketers, um, and they were really the 261 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: first to make the chocolate. So it's not that old. 262 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: I have some images of these fries and sons ads, 263 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: let me see, and I want to just pull these up. 264 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: This is so funny, this little boy, it's so funny. 265 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: This is hold sons in Bristol and London chocolate and 266 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: cocaw manufacturers, to the King, to the King, to his 267 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: majesty the King. This is the five emotional stages of 268 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: a child hoping for chocolate. So there's this like little 269 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: boy wearing like a little sailor outfit. Right, does that 270 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: a little c striped blue shirt? Was this the cover 271 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: of the bar? This is the cover of the bar. Wow, 272 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: there's a cover of the bar. Yeah. The little boy 273 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: goes from looking desperate to being okay, expecting the chocolate, 274 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: and finally realizing that he has fries chocolate. So you know, 275 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: it was a drink for the aristocracy, and now it's 276 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: just it's so common, right, It's so I don't think 277 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: hot chocol it is very common. It's like in the 278 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: winter on special occasions if you're camping drinking, but like 279 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: like I felt like back then, they drank it more, 280 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: They drank it more, Yeah, as an everyday drink. I 281 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: mean after if it was the drink of the gods, 282 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: then I feel like it came down to the common 283 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: people and they drink it and they drank it. Yeah, 284 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: like everything. But then coffee took over. Coffee really became 285 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: really the drink of the enlightenment, right, Coffee really took over. 286 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: But in Mexico there are these really great artees and 287 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: a chocolates like sort of chocolate tears, experimenting with different chocolates, 288 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: but it's new. Most chocolate consumed in Mexico is either 289 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: for more or for drinking. Yeah. After the break, we're 290 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: going to talk to based in Berkeley and we will 291 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: be sharing a recipe with you, maybe a couple of recipes, 292 00:17:51,359 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 1: maybe maybe more. Hi, Welcome back to Hungry for History. 293 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: Here is Amelia Gonsalez Garcia, the president and CEO of 294 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: in Berkeley, California, talking about why fair trade is so important. 295 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: Engaging in fair trade products is an important way for 296 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: us to ensure that cacao farmers receive a fair price, 297 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 1: that our dollars are invested in their communities and support 298 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: responsible growing practices. We sourced from Ecuado and Peru, and 299 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: sometimes we work with from other countries from Latino America 300 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: because that is the genesis of all chocolate and is 301 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: the source of our inspiration. Why is this so important 302 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: for chocolate? We know that the best flavors of cacao 303 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: come from a permaculture environment. Cacao grows best when it 304 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: is among mongol and citrus trees. When cocaw is monocropt 305 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 1: in huge quantities, it loses those subtle flavors and it's 306 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: more prone to disease. Fair trade is essential and being 307 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: able to assist small cocaw farmers that are engaging in 308 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: sustainable permaculture environments to grow cocao how it is best 309 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: intended to grow. This is what wants to support in 310 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: countries where the legacy of cacao has its roots. You're 311 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: saying the chocolate comes from the Ivory coast, but that's 312 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: because it's cheaper because of child labory. Right. Actually, I'm 313 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: not that you mentioned that, because I was just looking 314 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: that up a little bit more before I came to 315 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: see you. There was a survey conducted by the University 316 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: of Chicago in one point five million children are employed 317 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: as laborers. Yeah, work in the coca fields. I wonder 318 00:19:54,280 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: if that's vanilla. Why vanilla vanilla comes from madagas glar. 319 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: Is it labor issues over there? Labor issues, exploitation, exploitation. Yeah, 320 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: this is why I think it's so important to be 321 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: an informed consumer and to buy fair trade certified brands 322 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: of chocolate. Um, there's this chocolate. I don't know if 323 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: you if you're familiar with this company called Tony's Chuckle Lonely. 324 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: They're beautiful, Like their packaging is just so like bright 325 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: and colorful. They sell them all over um, and their 326 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: whole thing is slavery free chocolate, like a fair trade chocolate. Yeah, 327 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: they're really really amazing, you know chocolate. So it's just 328 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: really you know, important to think about what you buy 329 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: and like what that even means. You see, fair change 330 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 1: is like okay, what does that mean? Growing the chocolate 331 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: and taking it and fermenting it and toasting it and 332 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: this whole process. Children shouldn't be doing this right, And 333 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: you know, I think that a lot of people in 334 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: Mexico and in Guatemala, we're seeing these small producers that 335 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: are making amazing chocolates. Using fair trade. I was in 336 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: Central America ten years ago, so I called. I saw 337 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: the coffee fields and the cacao fields, and it's all 338 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: these amazing co op movements happening. So these cooperatives are 339 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: helping stabilize the price of the cocout and a big 340 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: thing that Central America doesn't have as processing plants, so 341 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: they have to send away the chocolate. That's why Belgium 342 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: has makes the best chocolate because Mexico is not making 343 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: the chocolate. They're growing the chocolate, not Mexico. Central America 344 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: and Mexico, and I found that fascinating ten years ago. 345 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: It's really sad. That is really sad. There's really sad 346 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: because they don't benefit in obviously profit participation, but they 347 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: also don't benefit in the legend of where the coco 348 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: comes from. If Central America and Mexico could get better 349 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: at processing what they grow instead of just sending it 350 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: to other country, they could really be successful in leading 351 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: that industry. Yes, okay, what's your favorite recipe with chocolate 352 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: other than Moley? I guess right, Molly has chocolate. Yeah, 353 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: I do love but it's not something that I make. 354 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: You know, I have this well, I have too that 355 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: I love. A chocolate and avocado moose. Wow, it's really delicious. Yeah, 356 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: I've had something like that before. It's so good because 357 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: it tastes it has creamy, the creaminess and bitterness of this, 358 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: but it's just kind of green tastes. Do you use 359 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: coco powder? I use powder, and I used dark chocolate 360 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: chips that I melt, so basically coco powder of water, sugar, vanilla, 361 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: and then milk chocolate, milk chocolate chips. Put all of 362 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: that in a food processor with some avocado landed. Whip 363 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: it up and it's really silky. Put it in cups 364 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: to a refrigerator until it sets, and then put some 365 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: cocoa nibs on top. So good that I love. And 366 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: then here's a dumb question. Is cocow powder just grounded 367 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: nuts or is there stuff in it? It's not the 368 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: grounded it's so like whenever I'm making like yesterday, I 369 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: made brownies and it was like this no sugar brownie, 370 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: so it's like maple syrup and it was like all 371 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: these other things and no egg. It was flexy, you know, 372 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: but the chocolate was cocow powder. And I was like, oh, yeah, 373 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: of course I need chocolate brownies, I'm gonna put cocow. 374 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: Then I was like, what is powder? Cocow powder is 375 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: basically the fat is extracted, the fat gets removed from 376 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: the beans during the processing, and the leftover solids, whatever 377 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: is left over is ground. That's coco powder. Okay, right, 378 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: that's coco powder. And then there's the Dutch cocoa powder. 379 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: The Dutch. But I don't know if you've noticed that 380 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: there's the Dutch. It's probably what you have as a Dutche. 381 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: I bet you it is, have a red or label. Yeah, 382 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: probably what it is. It's less acidic than just the 383 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: regular cocoa powder because they have they add this sort 384 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: of alkali solution. That's why if you taste like cocoa powder, 385 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: it's really really bitter. There's nothing to it. It's just 386 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: the you know, the extraction. Now, explain to me white 387 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: chocolate chocolate. That cocoa butter that's extracted that with sugar 388 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: is white chocolate, which is really not chocolate. It's just 389 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: the cocoa butter. Oh, it's the cocoa butter out of 390 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: that seed. It's the cocoa butter out of this seed. Yeah, 391 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: it's cocoa butter, and so that's why they call it 392 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: white chocolate, because it technically comes from the bean. Exactly. 393 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: You've just blown my mind. I had no idea. I'm 394 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: not a fan of That's why I don't like white chocolate. 395 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite chocolate recipe? I love brownies, 396 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: a really great brownie recipe. I like anything with chocolate chips. 397 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: Like I am making cookies, amazing chocolate chip cookies. I 398 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: make amazing double chocolate chip cookies. So like the brown 399 00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: chocolate chip cookies. I make brownies. I make sun these 400 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: pancakes with chocolate chips, with the lilies Lilies chocolate chips. 401 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: They're sugar free, no sugar added, fair Trade certified, non GMO, 402 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: gluten free, so there's no sugar added in anything. Lilies. Wow, 403 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: that sounds good. I love chocolate chip cookies are my 404 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: favorite cookie. I make a great fudge brownie which is 405 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: basically just it's just eggs, sugar, vanilla, and chocolate chips. 406 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: And it's so good. It's so so, so so good. 407 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, chocolate is it really is complex. It's 408 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: so complex. And also what I think is so so 409 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: important is to recognize just that it had such significance, right, 410 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: you know, that's one of the most important crops of 411 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: Mexico and I love that. And also just the two 412 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: corn and chocolate. One of them needs full sun to grow. 413 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: You know, corn needs full sun. Chocolate the tree is 414 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: very delicate at the beginning and needs shade to grow. 415 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: So one isn't symbolic of life and the other one 416 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: is symbolic of death. So makes sense that they would 417 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: be the two most important ingredients because because they can't 418 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: exist without the other. Room you know that they are 419 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: the yin and the yang exactly Hungry for History is 420 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership with I Hearts Michael 421 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: podcast Network. For more of your favorite shows, visit the 422 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 423 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: your podcasts.