1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: We will begin to examine evidence bearing on what President 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Trump and members of the White House staff news. Your 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: President says something to the effect of, I'm the fing 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: president taking up to the Capitol. Now Bloomberg sound On, Politics, 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: Policy and perspective from DC's top name, We're going to 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: go to the Capitol. He didn't look up from his 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: phone and said something to the effect of there's a 9 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: lot going on cast, but I don't know. Things might 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: get real, real bad. On January six, Sloomberg Sound On 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio, he lunged at the 12 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: Secret Service agent who said no, Mr President. Welcome to 13 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: the fastest hour in politics, with new revelations today from 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: the January six committee startling testimony about what happened inside 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: the West Wing and the motorcade before and during the 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: attack on the Capitol, and also who asked for part 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: will get you up to date and discuss the findings 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: with Asha Rangappa from Yale University's Jackson Institute for Global Affairs, 19 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: former Associate dean at Yale Law School. Later, the fallout 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: from the Supreme Court's decision on Row. We'll discuss with 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: Carry Franklin from the Center Reproductive Health Law and Policy 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: at the u c l A School of Law, and 23 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: our signature panel is in place on an important day. 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: We'll talk all this out with Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie 25 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: Chanzano and Rick Davis. The top witness before the January 26 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: six committee today certainly made a lot of news. This 27 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: was the executive assistant to Donald Trump's Chief of Staff, 28 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: Mark Meadows, and her account of what happened in the 29 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: days before and after the attack on the Capitol. It 30 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: was enough to generate an unscheduled hearing. Let's listen, Miss Hutchinson. 31 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: Did Rudy Giuliani ever suggest that he was interested in 32 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: receiving a presidential pardon related to January six? He did, 33 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: Miss Hutchinson. Did White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows 34 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: every indicate that he was interested in receiving a presidential 35 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: pardon related to January six? Ms? Meadows did seek that pardon, Yes, ma'am, 36 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: that's new information. Blueberg Government's Emily Wilkins was covering the 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: hearing all day on Capitol Hill and joins us now 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: with her take on some of this. Emily It's hard 39 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: to overplay the significance of what we heard today. Yeah, Joe, 40 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: this was incredibly explosive testimony. UM. There was a reason 41 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: that the committee uh who had which had initially canceled 42 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: all of its hearings for this week, decided that they 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: would hold this one, that they announced it at the 44 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: last minute, that they were initially quite secretive about the 45 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: fact that Cassidy Hutchinson would be their singular witness here 46 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: and would be testifying. UM. And it really was this 47 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: inner look, this TikTok of what it was like in 48 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: the day's leading up to January six, and what it 49 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: was like to be around Trump and Trump's chief of 50 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: staff Mark Meadows on January six. And there were just 51 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: so many moments that we were previously unaware of that 52 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: really illustrate the president's state of mind. The fact that 53 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: he begged initially to go to the capital, and when 54 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: Secret Service went let him, he tried to grab the 55 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: steering wheel of the limo and try and push a 56 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: Secret Service out of the way. The fact that Hutchinson 57 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: said she heard this noise in her office and walked 58 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: out to find a White House employee he who then 59 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: gestured to a wall, and she saw that the wall 60 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: had been smeared with ketchup, that there's a plaque shattered 61 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: at the bottom, and was told that Trump was so 62 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: upset over what it was going on that he threw 63 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: his lunch. And perhaps most most shockingly, well several things. 64 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: Most shockingly that when Trump was told that rioters were 65 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: chanting and hang Mike Pence, Hang Mike Pence, that Trump 66 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: was said, this is what Pence deserves, and that I 67 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: think this is the final one, Joe, And I know, 68 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: I know there's a lot here. But when Trump was 69 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: told when he was doing the rally at the White House, um, 70 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: he was told that there are people here that have 71 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: weapons and he is his response was that's fine, They're 72 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: not here to hurt me. And it really just shows 73 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: what Trump's mindset was on that day, and as the 74 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: riots before, during, and after attacking the Capitol. Emily, we 75 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: don't know when the next hearing will be correct and 76 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: after what we've seen today, I guess they could pop 77 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: up at any time. We are expecting two more hearings 78 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: to take place in mid July. I mean both the 79 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: House and the Senate are most lawmakers of course. January, 80 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: uh six excluded. Most of them are back home in 81 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: their districts this week as well as next week. They'll 82 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: be returning to d C around July eleventh, July twelve, 83 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: so that's what we're expecting to see more. And of 84 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: course the committee is trying to wrap their work up 85 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: with the cut least a few months to spare before 86 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: the November elections, just to try and give time for 87 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: everything to settle and for Americans to digest it before 88 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: they hit the ballot box. Fascinating day in Washington, that's 89 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: for sure, Emily, thank you so much for the update. 90 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Governments and Only Wilkins, who will be guest hosting 91 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: this broadcast later on this week. The panel used Cassidy 92 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: Hutchinson to tell the story of what led to the 93 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: events of January six, having already testified. She testified three times, 94 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: of course, behind closed doors, and had already said that 95 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani and Mark Meadows discussed the idea of using 96 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: alternate electors as far back as Thanksgiving, and the planning 97 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: for January six started shortly after. Here's Hutchinson describing a 98 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: conversation an important moment here with Rudy Giuliani on the 99 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: night of January two. As Mr Giuliani and I were 100 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: walking to his vehicles that evening, he looked at me 101 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: and said something to the effect of, cast are you 102 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: excited for the sixth? It's going to be a great day. 103 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: I remember looking at him saying, Rudy, did you explain 104 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: what's what's happening on the six uh And he had 105 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: responded something to the effect of, We're going to the capital. 106 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: It's going to be great. The President is going to 107 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: be there, He's going to look powerful, he's going to 108 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: be with the members, he's going to be with the senators. 109 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: Talked to the Chief about it. Talked to the Chief 110 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: about it. He knows about it. And did you go 111 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: back then up to the West wing and tell Mr 112 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: Meadows about your conversation with Mr Giuliani. I did. After 113 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: Mr Giuliani had left the campus that evening, I went 114 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: back up to our office and I found Mr Meadows 115 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: in his office on the couch. He was scrolling through 116 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: his phone. Remember leaning against the doorway and saying, I said, 117 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: an interesting conversation, as Rudy Mark, it sounds like we're 118 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: going to go to the capital. He didn't look up 119 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 1: from his phone and said something to the effect of 120 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot going on, Gusts, but I don't know. 121 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: Things might get real, real bad on January six things 122 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: might get real, real bad. She would go on to describe, 123 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: and I rate Donald Trump. Following his speech on the 124 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: sixth on the Ellipse, when the Secret Service informed him 125 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: that he would not be going to the capital as 126 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: he wished, they did not have secure or access in place, 127 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: Hutchinson says, the President lunged her word at the agent 128 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: in the presidential limo, saying I'm the effing president. This 129 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: is where we start with Asha Rangappa, senior lecturer at 130 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: Yale University's Jackson Institute for Global Affairs and former special 131 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: Agents in the New York Division of the FBI, A shot. 132 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: It's great to have you with us here. The news 133 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: media describing this as a bombshell today. Did you hear 134 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: anything that changed the game and could lead to an 135 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: indictment or criminal charges today? Yes, definitely, and thank you 136 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: for having me on. I think what happened today, what 137 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: was revealed today, actually expands the possible criminal exposure of 138 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: Trump and his inner circle. And this is because until 139 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: now we've really had two different pieces of the overall plot. 140 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: One is what I call the legal blueprint. This was 141 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: concocted by John Eastman. This involved the fake elector scheme 142 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: from the states and the vice president rejecting the certified 143 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: slate of electors from several states, um and somehow getting 144 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: the election to Trump. Then we've had the mob and 145 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: the militia groups who stormed the Capitol, and we've had 146 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: a couple of those groups, the Oathkeepers and the Proud Boys, 147 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: arrested and charged with seditious conspiracy, in addition to eight 148 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: hundred other individuals. What today did was create a link 149 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: between those two parts, and specifically to show that there 150 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: was fore knowledge of violence on January six, and potentially 151 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: that there was an intention for that violence to be 152 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: used as part of the pressure campaign for Pence. Let's 153 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: actually hear a piece of that. This is once again 154 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: Cassidy Hutchinson talking about what they had learned. The President 155 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: had been told that weapons were being brought into the 156 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: area of the Ellipse, and some folks actually wouldn't even 157 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: go through security because of what they were caring. Let's 158 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: listen to that. I recall Tony and are having a 159 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: conversation with Mark probably around ten am ten fifteen am, 160 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: where I remember Tony mentioning knives, guns in the form 161 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: of pistols and rifles, UM, bear spray body armor, spears 162 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: and flag poles. Spears were one item, flag poles for 163 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: one item, and then Tony had relieved me something to 164 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: the effect of and these I think people are fastening 165 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: spears onto the ends of flag poles, fastening spears under 166 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: the ends of flagpoles. There's there is just incredible symbolism 167 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: there for starters shop people using the American flag literally 168 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: as a weapon. In that case, that's speaking to a 169 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,599 Speaker 1: point you just made. So they knew that violence was 170 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: at hand, not only because of the planning but the 171 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: very weapons they carried that day, including by the way, 172 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: assault weapons UM. There were reports of people who had 173 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: a R fifteens. I think the most damning part of 174 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: this UH segment of the testimony was Hutchinson saying that 175 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: Trump said, let them in. I know they're not here 176 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: to hurt me. And you know in that statement there 177 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: there's just so much packed in there. How does he 178 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: know like he has he clearly has some idea that 179 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: these people are safe there on his side. They're a 180 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: part of his tribe. Um and also he wants them there, 181 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: and he not only wants them as a part of 182 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: his rally, but he indicates that he wants them to 183 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: march on the Capitol. He wants to send them to 184 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: the Capitol, knowing that they are armed with all kinds 185 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: of weapons, including the most destructive assault weapons. UM. I 186 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: thought he wanted to go as well. It was extraordinary. 187 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: We know that the President wanted to go to the 188 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: capital and deliver a speech and in fact personally enter 189 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: the House chamber, which would have been an incredible moment, 190 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: certainly as rioters were busy. If I don't know if 191 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: this would have been carried out the same way, but 192 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: he was. He was told no from the Secret Service. Asha, 193 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: what's the next leg here? We just talked about a 194 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: number of really important things that we learned today. We 195 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: also know that the Department of Justice is watching these hearings. 196 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: Are they building an indictment now? As Mark Meadows or 197 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: any of the top White House officials we're talking about 198 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: here going to jail. Well, let's remember that there are 199 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: multiple phases of an investigation, and the indictment and charging 200 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: is at the very end. Look, there is clearly probable 201 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: cause to to investigate Trump, Meadows, Ethanan, all these people 202 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: for a number of crimes ranging from conspiracy need to 203 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: defer the United States, to conspiracy to obstruct an official 204 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:08,239 Speaker 1: proceeding too after today, in my opinion, incitement to insurrection 205 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: and even seditious conspiracy. Um, they will need more evidence 206 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: than what was just presented today. But I think we 207 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: have to take the totality of the bigger picture that's 208 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: being built by these hearings and what's coming out, and 209 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: then the question is do they have enough to convince 210 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: the jury beyond a reasonable doubt? And then is Mark 211 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: Garland gonna charge? I think that investigation has to be underway, um, 212 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: and they're definitely building. I mean, if they are, the 213 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: evidence is very much mounting to make a compelling case. 214 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: Along all of the charges that I just mentioned is 215 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: one we haven't mentioned yet, and that's witness tampering. We 216 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: don't know who got these messages, but Liz Cheney today 217 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: shared a couple of messages. Uh, some of them were 218 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: worked in text form. Another one was a phone call. 219 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: You know, somebody wants me to let you know he's 220 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: thinking about you. He knows you're loyal, he knows you'll 221 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: do the right thing when you go in. We wouldn't 222 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: want anything to happen to you. This is like watching 223 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: uh a mob movie for crying out loud. How important 224 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: is that charge on its own witness tampering. It's huge 225 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: And you know we have seen this before. This was 226 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: a part of the Mueller investigation. UH, witness tampering, obstruction. Um. 227 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: You know, these are bread and butter crimes. They're often 228 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: poo poodas process crimes, but they become part of the 229 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: equation as well. And in trying to tamper with the witness, 230 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: you are also demonstrating a consciousness of guilt. You know, 231 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: if what you are doing subtly um, as you said, incode, 232 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: is to try to dissuade or persuade the witness to 233 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: be favorable to you or the people around you, it's 234 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: because you have something to hide. So and we we've 235 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: seen that already with the you know, wanting to be 236 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: on the pardon list preemptively so um. But you know, 237 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: those process crimes will come into play, and you know, 238 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: I have a sneaking feeling that that we'll see some 239 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 1: possible obstruction behavior when when all is said and done 240 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: after after the hearings. Uh, I'm glad you could join us. 241 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: I appreciate your insights here. Let's let's talk as we 242 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: learn more. Ah show Rangappa of Yale University's Jackson Institute 243 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: for Global Affairs, former special agent here in the New 244 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: York FBI. I'm Joe Matthew in New York at Bloomberg 245 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: World Headquarters, joined in studio by Rick Davis. Of course, 246 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie Chanzano is also with us as 247 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: we assemble our panel here for an extended conversation on 248 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: an important day. First of all, great to have both 249 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: of you with us here. We couldn't do this without you. 250 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: I want you to hear. Uh. This one piece of 251 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: the hearing today that seems to be generating the most news, 252 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: even if it's not the most important. This idea of 253 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: the President lunging not at the wheel but at a 254 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: secret service agent. He had just done the speech on 255 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: the ellipse on January six. He thought he was on 256 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: his way up to the capital along with everyone else 257 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: who was there, and he was told no, here's the story. 258 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: When the President got in the beast, he was under 259 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: the impression from Mr Meadows that the off the record 260 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: movement to the Capitol was still possible and likely to happen, 261 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: but that Bobby had more information. So once the President 262 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: had gotten into the vehicle with Bobby, he thought that 263 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: they were going up to the Capitol, and when Bobby 264 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: had related to him, we're not. We don't have the 265 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: assets to do it. It's not secure. We're going back 266 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: to the West wing. The President had very strong, very 267 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: angry response to that. Um Tony described him as being irate. 268 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: The President said something to the effect of I'm the 269 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: fving President. Take me up to the capital now, to 270 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: which Bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to 271 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: the west wing. The President reached up towards the front 272 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr 273 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: Angel grabbed his arm, said sorry, you need to take 274 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: your hand off the steering wheel. We're going back to 275 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: the west wing. We're not going to the capital. Mr 276 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby 277 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: Angle and Mr. When Mr Ronado had recounted this story 278 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: to me, he had motioned towards his clasicals that would 279 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: be his collar bone, Cassidy Hutchinson. I wonder if she 280 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: becomes a household name now Rick Davis. Uh, my goodness, 281 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: her life just changed. First of all, the witness, Why 282 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: do you think they didn't bring her out on the 283 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: first day of the first night. Well, the only thing 284 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: I can tell is that, um, some of this testimony 285 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: she's already given to the committee, so they knew how 286 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: explosive the information was. And um, the only thing I've 287 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: noticed in the reporting is that she recently got new counsel, 288 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: So it may be that the lawyers that were now 289 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: representing her thought that she would be better off actually 290 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: making a public disclosure of this information. Uh. The reality 291 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 1: is that it does remind us that this committee has 292 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: not done with their job. There's an enormous amount of information, 293 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: some of it is highly explosive, like today's hearing, and 294 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: that their their job is going to continue for some time. 295 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: And we talked so much right now about the Justice 296 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: Department picking up. But I want to see where this 297 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: leads us, and I want to see where this committee 298 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: brings us, because they've done what I think is an 299 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: extraordinary job so far of painting a picture, creating a 300 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: narrative that is understandable and and and very nerve racking 301 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: when you think that this is the kind of contact 302 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: the conduct the President United States has exhibited in an 303 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: effort to try an overturn election that he lost. Jennie, 304 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: people were glued to this today because it's highly entertaining. 305 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: I know that it's not probably a very popular thing 306 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: to say, we're journalists here and we're covering this story. 307 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: But these are wild stories, and anyone would stop and say, 308 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: my god, what did you hear? That they're gonna be 309 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: talking about it over dinner and at work tomorrow. I 310 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: guess I'm just wondering, is that what we had today 311 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: or was this a game changing day of testimony that 312 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: builds the criminal case. It was a game changing day. 313 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: And and just to follow up on what Rick was saying, Um, 314 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: she not only got new counsel, but we understand her 315 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: fourth death position was last week, and they were concerned 316 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: about the danger she was in, the danger to her 317 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: she was in for what she knew, and that's why 318 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: they had her testify live today. And I think it 319 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: also ties into what Liz Cheney did at the end, 320 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: which was talk about witness tampering. I think there's a 321 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: real concern that they have witnesses who are being tampered with. 322 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: And you know, you know, I know both you and 323 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: Rick are loyal to me and you'll do the right thing. 324 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: So I feel confident about that, Joe. But nothing's going 325 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: to happen to that pretty face. Although I don't know, 326 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: ask Rick, he's onze here. I trust you. But but 327 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: can I just say I I just want to say 328 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: that you know this young woman, the bravery she showed 329 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: today to come out publicly, she is if you go 330 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: into the White House and as she did at this level, 331 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: you are a Trump loyalist. He has been attacking her 332 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: already on truth social She's done what people like Pat 333 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: Zippoloni and these other men in the White House won't do. 334 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: And I think hopefully this changes some minds. But she 335 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: deserves a lot of credit for having the courage to 336 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: go out today and say what she did, because she 337 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: is very much alone amongst Trump loyalists and doing this 338 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: At this point, Liz Cheney shared two messages that she 339 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: said witnesses got before they were deposed. She did not 340 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: name those witnesses. I'd just love to know who we're 341 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: talking about here, but they shared the messages. These are 342 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: text messages presumably or emails that they got beforehand. These 343 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: are direct quotes. What they said to me is, as 344 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: long as I continue to be a team player, they 345 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: know that I'm on the team and I'm doing the 346 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: right thing, I'm protecting who I need to protect, I'll 347 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: continue to stay in the good graces in Trump world. 348 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: Uh that's the first text. The next one. They've reminded 349 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: me a couple of times Trump does read transcripts, and 350 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: just keep that in mind, as I proceved through my 351 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: depositions and interviews with the committee, Rick, you really think 352 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: Donald Trump's hanging around reading transcripts for one? But two? 353 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: How important is the witness tampering component of this case? Yeah, 354 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: I mean it just reminds me of sort of an 355 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: ongoing criminal enterprise. Right. It doesn't sound like a white 356 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: house that's that's that's supposed to uphold the democratic norms 357 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: of our society. It sounds like the mob movie. Yeah, 358 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: it's a component movie, and and and Donald Trump is 359 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: the mob boss and and and Honestly, I mean, I 360 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: don't know how you can take it any other way. 361 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,719 Speaker 1: We want to believe something different, right, we really do 362 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: want there to be a happy ending here, but there's 363 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: not gonna be one. And and whatever ultimately happens, I 364 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: think it's incredibly important that that Cassie Hutchison major testimony 365 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: public that that this committee is informing the public, they're 366 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: setting a historical record. A lot of people ask me, 367 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: what do think it's gonna come out of this, and 368 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: in the reality is if nothing comes out of it 369 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: other than the fact that we now have a historical 370 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 1: record that every generation can look and say, you know what, 371 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: our democracy was under attack by President United States. Here 372 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: are the details associated with there. They're they're they're the 373 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: facts of the case. And we should learn from this 374 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: House leader though, who's saying that this is illegitimate, unconstitutional, 375 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: and don't listen to what they're saying. Yeah, and and 376 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: these are the same people who evidently we're gonna meet 377 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: Donald Trump at the door of the House of Representatives 378 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: and walking down to disrupt an election election count. So 379 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: I mean, like, consider the source. I mean, honestly, I 380 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: don't think we're done yet. As I said earlier, I 381 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: think this committee's got work to do. We have not 382 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: heard about what kind of conducts some of these House 383 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: Republicans were doing. Were they showing some of these marauders 384 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: of the capital ways to get around in advance of 385 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: this siege on on August or on January six? So 386 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: I mean, like, that's why I think that we're not 387 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: going to really understand the full picture of the conspiracy 388 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: until this committee ends, And whether or not the Justice 389 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: Department picks it up is going to be up to them. 390 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: But at least the American public will know the facts. 391 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: And and Cassie Hutchinson today did a real good job 392 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 1: for our democracy to lay it out there. Jene, How 393 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: does the committee maintain credibility to do what just described here? 394 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: When when Republicans who are still serving, including the man 395 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: who could be the former speaker, say that this is 396 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 1: illegitimate tell people not to believe they're findings. Well, you know, 397 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: time is not on the committee side. But I give 398 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: them so much credit for what they have done so far. 399 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: And I do think that Donald Trump is right at 400 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: this point when he says that Kevin McCarthy made a 401 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: big mistake by not seating people. One thing that has 402 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: happened with this committee is they've been able to tell 403 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: a story. They haven't gotten muddled up with back and 404 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: forth or partisan bickering or any of that, and so 405 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: you know, this has really worked to their advantage. And 406 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: I think the Committee is absolutely on the right track. 407 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: If the Republicans take the House, you know, obviously their 408 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: work is going to have to be done by that point. 409 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 1: But you know, I do think just back to this, 410 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: you know, the sort of mob component of this. This 411 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: is very much like what Michael Cohen described when he 412 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,959 Speaker 1: talked very early on about how Donald Trump operates. It 413 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: was never a straight out don't do this or I'll 414 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: do this. It was these threats, and it makes it 415 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: difficult then to convict somebody. And that's where I think 416 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: some of this legal and criminal exposure gets difficult for 417 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: somebody like a Merrick Garland. I think people like you know, 418 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: Mark Meadows and others, they're exposed. I'm not sure at 419 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: this point that Trump is exposed yet, but I think 420 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: the Committee is working up to that, and they may 421 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: find themselves there if this continues, and particularly if more 422 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: Republicans are moved to come out by what happened today. 423 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: We'll see about that. Of course, we'll talk about it 424 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: if and when it happens here on sound On the 425 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: panel stays with us Rick and Jeanie for the hour. 426 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: As we turn next to the fallout from Row. This 427 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. One of the first things President Biden said 428 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,959 Speaker 1: after the Supreme Court's ruling on Roe v. Wade on 429 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: Friday was the need for a new task force that 430 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: he was going to create two investigate what needed to 431 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: be done to protect women across the country, ensure their 432 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: ability to travel, and even ensure their access to prescribed medications. Today, 433 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: the Secretary of Health and Human Services, Javier but Sarah, 434 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: was asked about this in testimony on Capitol Hill. The 435 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: outlined actions that his department is taking. They would be 436 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: the overseers of such a task force here in the 437 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: wake of what he called the despicable court ruling. Arius 438 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: to every American who's impacted, my apologies today, As I said, 439 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: we can't tell you there's a silver bullet. But what 440 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: I am saying to you is that the more we dig, 441 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: we will do everything we can with what we find 442 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: to make sure we're protecting women's reproductive health care services. 443 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: It takes a little time because we want to do 444 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: it right and we want to do it acording to 445 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: the law. This is where we begin with Carry Franklin, 446 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: who's joining us from the Center on Reproductive Health Law 447 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: and Policy at the u c l A School of Law. Carry, 448 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: it's great to have you here. Your thoughts on this 449 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: to begin with on on the extent that the Biden 450 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: administration can actually help on a federal level women who 451 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: are impacted by this decision. Are are they promising too much? Well? 452 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: I think the Secretary of Health and Human Services was 453 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: careful to say they're looking into it. They don't know 454 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: exactly what they'll be able to do. I do think 455 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: they'll be able to move forward with medication abortion and 456 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: the f d A saying that this medication regime is safe, 457 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: it's been proven safe, and state laws to the contrary 458 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: but bar these abortion pills because on the fury that 459 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: they're unsafe, UH conflicts with federal law, and it's perhaps 460 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: preempted by the FDA. That would be a move the 461 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: federal government could make. It's not clear what else they 462 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: can do. Can you explain that much? Though? The idea 463 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: you that UH, this medication by mail, if I should 464 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: be calling it, that is different than getting an abortion 465 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: procedure in that state. How would how would states delineate 466 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: the difference. Well, some states have passed laws are considering 467 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: laws that bar medication abortion on the grounds that it's unsafe, 468 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: And the FDA has studied this and said, that's simply 469 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: not true. We have years and years of data and 470 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,719 Speaker 1: evidence showing that, uh, these medications are safe, and we 471 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: want to preempt those state laws, which the federal government 472 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: and federal law can do to say that states are 473 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: not able to make those rulings. I think the problem is, 474 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: uh that a state could say, Okay, well we we 475 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: could even concede that these pills are safe, but they 476 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: bar our criminal abortion. Where we were barring abortion medication 477 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: for criminal reasons. And it's not clear can be done 478 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: well that that, And it sure seems like that's where 479 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: we're heading in some states here. My goodness, your neighbor 480 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: in Texas could turn you in for taking that medication, right. 481 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: That's that's how I understand the law there. Yes, Texas 482 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: has passed this law that not just anyone in Texan, 483 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: but but anyone in the country or anywhere presumably could 484 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: be liable under this Texas law. That's why we've seen 485 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: a lot of states in recent days on the coasts 486 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: passing laws saying we're not going to participate. We're not 487 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: going to cooperate with these vigilante and other state laws 488 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: that try to reach beyond borders into California, into Massachusetts 489 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: to try to capture people there, uh and punish people 490 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: for activity that goes on lawfully in those other states. Rry, 491 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: I'd love your legal view on what's happening in courts 492 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: since Friday, because you know, people saw trigger laws taking 493 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: effect almost immediately in some states, and we saw judges 494 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: temporarily block abortion bands in Louisiana, in Utah, while a 495 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: federal court, as I read from the Associated Press in 496 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: South Carolina, says a law restricting the procedure after six 497 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: weeks would take effect there immediately. Uh. As this now 498 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: goes to basically courthouses, state level court houses around the country. Here, 499 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: is there going to be a slower role on these 500 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: trigger laws taking effects as judges consider their impact. Perhaps? 501 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: I mean, we've just opened a Pandora's box of legal 502 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: questions on every issue you can imagine, and this will 503 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: be one of them. So one thing that some states 504 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: are trying to do is put into effect law old, 505 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: old laws that row prevented from going into effect, and 506 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: some courts are saying, no, those laws are anequated or 507 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: those laws are fake. They don't make clear what procedures 508 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: are allowed, and we can't have laws like that, so 509 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: they're stopping those laws. There also maybe provisions in state 510 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: law under state constitutions that bar certain of these restrictions 511 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: that states are trying to put in. And that's what 512 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: the state courts are trying to figure out right now, 513 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: now that the federal protection has gone what kind of 514 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: protections exist under state law that might bar these recent 515 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: attempts by anti abortion states to criminalize abortion. So I 516 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: guess they'll have hearings on these trigger laws and we 517 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: could find ourselves then carry by the end of the summer, 518 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: I'm assuming with thirteen states having implemented them, is that 519 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: your expectations we could We absolutely quite a few states 520 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: I believe will have bands in place, uh within months. Lastly, 521 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: then the states that are actually writing laws to protect 522 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: women coming from other states, what prevents them from being 523 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: charged with a crime when they go home now much? Uh? 524 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: You know, California and Massachusetts, Illinois, New York, they're trying 525 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: to pass protections. Those protections can protect their the providers, 526 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: and it can protect people in California and Massachusetts wherever 527 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: um uh from prosecution in these other states. It can 528 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: say we're not going to revoke your licenses. I would say, 529 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: we're not going to pantalyze anyone who comes here. But 530 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: once those people return to their home states where abortion 531 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: is criminalized, it's not clear that California could do anything 532 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: to help them, right. Yeah, that's We spoke last evening 533 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: with the Attorney general from Delaware who said basically the 534 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: same thing. It's it strikes me that we're about to 535 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: enter a world where there's a lot of secret travel 536 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: going on. Carrie, thank you for your insights. We'd like 537 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: to stay in touch with you on this story because 538 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: God knows it's going to be unfolding and evolving over 539 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: weeks and months. I think we just established Carrie Franklin 540 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: is a director the Center of Reproductive Health Law Policy 541 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: you see l a school of law. And we'll reassemble 542 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: the panel next on this. Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano 543 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: are with us. Are Bloomberg Politics contributors with some very 544 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: difficult debates to be had around all of this. That's 545 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: why they're here. Of course, we'll check traffic and the 546 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: markets on the way for you as well. On the 547 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: fastest hour in politics. Thanks for spending part of your 548 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: Tuesday with us. I'm Joe Matthew in New York. This 549 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. So long with Joe Matthew 550 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. The statement is out from the White House, 551 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: which makes things look and feel a lot more official. 552 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: Having read the headline already on the terminal, Finland Sweden 553 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: closer to joining NATO with Turkey deal. It was important 554 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: today from President Biden sit down with President Urdawan of Turkey. 555 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: This of course as they arrived in Madrid for the 556 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: NATO summit on the heels of the G seven that 557 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: was happening in Germany. These are coming back to back. 558 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: It's not just you. There are two different major summits 559 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: going on here and looks like the meeting works. Statement 560 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: just out from the White House Joe Biden, I congratulate 561 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: a Turkey, Finland and Sweden on signing a trilateral memorandum 562 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: which paves the way for allies to invite Finland and 563 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 1: Sweden to join NATO at the Madrid summit. And so 564 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: we reassembled our panel Genie Chanzano and Rick Davis, Bloomberg 565 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: Politics contributors. Genie, this is a pretty major development here 566 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: and would in fact be something to show for the 567 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: summit that's taking place, A significant victory for NATO, for 568 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. Um, the White House has got to be very, 569 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: very pleased by this, and it really does. You know, 570 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: it is a deliverable um and a big one for 571 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: this summit. And you know, it's it's a significant expansion 572 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: of NATO, the largest we've seen in years. And it 573 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: also shows how much Putin has lost. I mean, the 574 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: whole reason he went into Ukraine, well, one of the 575 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: major reasons was to you know, restrict this NATO expansion, 576 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: and it has now come on his doorstep. Exactly what 577 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: he feared most has now happened. So this is a 578 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: huge victory for the Biden administration. It's not a done deal. 579 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,959 Speaker 1: We should let everyone know here, Rick, But boy, this 580 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: is the last thing I'm assuming Vladimir Putin saw happening 581 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: when he started all. Yeah, I think this is a 582 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,719 Speaker 1: major strategic error by Vladimir Putin. You know, his incursion 583 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: into the Ukraine was supposed to restore the Motherland, and 584 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, create this this broader you know, Russia into 585 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: the East. And and the reality is, uh, he's strengthened NATO. 586 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: He's I mean, like no better example that than Finland 587 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: and Sweden, you know, Helsinki and Stockholm joining the team, right, 588 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: Sweden who was known for its independence for three years. Uh. 589 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: And and and so that's one thing too. I mean, 590 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: there's already a hundred thousand new troops in the border 591 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: of NATO countries next to Russia. So that's actually worst 592 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: news even for Vladimir Putin. And an agreement coming out 593 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: of this weekend's discovered this week's discussions is to move 594 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: that to three hundred thousand NATO troops. I mean, so 595 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: the idea that he's like, you know, uh taking away 596 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: the heft of NATO has resulted in exactly the opposite. 597 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: And and so I don't know how he actually rationalizes 598 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,479 Speaker 1: at himself, but uh, it's really bad news for vlad Yeah. Well, 599 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: so that said, he's going to steam over this tonight 600 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: or has been. I'm assuming maybe he'll throw a plate 601 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: with ketchup at the wall, Genie. But I'm trying to 602 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 1: figure out how he'll interpret this. If if a couple 603 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: of Big twenty nine's would be seen as escalatory. What 604 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 1: is this going to do? Well? I like how Rick 605 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: calls him lad. That might make him throw catch up 606 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: against the wall. Um, you know he I think he's 607 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: going to try to use this to his advantage, and 608 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: you could see playing Devil's advocate how that works. He 609 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: tells people in Russia that this is exactly what I 610 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: told you was happening. NATO is advancing to our borders. 611 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: You know, what would they think if we were creeping 612 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: into Canada against the United States are up by Mexico. 613 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: This is what they're doing. So in some ways it 614 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: does work. You could see how he will work this 615 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 1: to his advantage and say, this is all the more 616 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: reason we need to fight. We need to continue and 617 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: increase our efforts visa the Ukraine because they're doing exactly 618 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: what I warned you about there, trying to destroy us 619 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 1: in our way of life, and this is a perfect 620 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: example of that, the West against the East. Does he 621 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: use this as a justification to attack supply lines or 622 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: somehow expand this beyond the borders of Ukraine, Rick or 623 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: more heavily bombard Kiev, where he knows our diplomatic Corps 624 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: is located. Well, he's he's bombarding Keep now, so that's 625 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: already happening. Um, it escalates a lot if he goes 626 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: outside of the Ukraine conflict, especially if it touches any 627 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: NATO country, where all of NATO would then be seen 628 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: to to get back into this this war. I would 629 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: say one thing, he may be able to spin it 630 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: in Russia, but there are a hundred countries that are 631 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: not part of the sanction regime now. And part of 632 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: the message that this NATO Summit is sending a along 633 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: with the Seventh Summit, is that you need to get 634 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: on board with the rest of this This this is massive. 635 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 1: Billions of dollars are going to go to reconstruction in Ukraine, 636 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: billions of dollars going to go to the defense of Ukraine. 637 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: UM other other countries like Finland and Sweden joining NATO. 638 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: That's a message to these other countries that you need 639 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: to get on board and start taking sides. And and 640 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: they're they're not going to let these independent countries who 641 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: have not put on sanctions get away with it. This 642 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: is going to be the next phase of the development 643 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: of this war. So when we talk about new sanctions, 644 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,359 Speaker 1: then Genie, it's a new scale of sanctions. I mean, 645 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: or will we be in a situation where Jake Sullivan 646 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 1: is is flying around the world trying to button up 647 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: the rest of those countries. Yeah, I mean they're doing 648 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: that now. They would absolutely like to do that. And 649 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: I was struck by the way as as Jake Sullivan 650 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: does his work that he very clearly tried to get 651 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: McCrone out of the way of the cameras when McCrone 652 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: was explaining to Biden that he had spoken with with 653 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: with uh MBS and they didn't have more oil to produce. 654 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: So I think a very interesting development is going to 655 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: be what happens with the President's trip, because Russia knows, 656 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: I mean, they want this thing to last. They want 657 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: to outlast the United States and NATO and the West 658 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: keep this going so domestically these alliances fall apart and 659 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: the politics become too hard. The President is trying to 660 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: buttress that with the sanctions, decreasing oil prices and those 661 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: kinds of things, but he has his work cut out 662 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: for him. If you just listen to that little clip 663 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: with McCrone telling Biden, you're not going to be able 664 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: to get them to produce more because they don't have 665 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: more to produce. I think that's a big morning sign. 666 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: Is that true? Rick, the President wouldn't go there unless 667 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: there was more oil. Oh yeah, I think that that 668 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: they're gonna find oil under any rock they can. They're 669 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: going to increase production as much as they can. It's 670 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: a short term thing, right, I mean, really not talking 671 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: about anything other than getting it through the summer so 672 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: that these prices, gas prices don't increase. There's already some 673 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: evidence that they're decreasing sing and so uh and and 674 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 1: by the way, this is a big part of the 675 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: secondary sanctions that that we were just talking about. The 676 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: Middle East is still doing business with Russia. And so 677 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: in addition to saying, hey, we we need your oil, 678 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: they're gonna say we need your support. And I'm not 679 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: sure it's a quid pro quote, but there's gonna be 680 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: a lot of heavy pressure in that regard. For five 681 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: months into this genie, we spoke yesterday a bit about 682 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: the potential for war fatigue, for exhaustion here uh by Americans. 683 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: Five months in extend that to November, what's this conversation 684 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: gonna feel like? You know, I don't think we know you, 685 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: I think so far Americans have been united. I give 686 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: the Biden administration a lot of kudos for the way 687 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: they have managed this so far. But you know, I 688 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: am a little concerned about that. You know, will be 689 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: there as long as it takes. We're going to get 690 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 1: this over by the end of the year. Those red 691 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: lines can be a bit damaging and a bit dangerous, 692 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: But so far the American public has been in support. 693 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: The one real key issue I think here is does 694 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: at some point this argument that you're spending billions of 695 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,399 Speaker 1: dollars overseas and yet we are suffering at home come 696 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: back to her politically, and that's something the White House 697 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: is going to have to address. They've got to keep 698 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: making the case that this is an our interest, not 699 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: the interests of other people somewhere else that you know 700 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: very little about. Spending time with Rick and Genie. In 701 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,840 Speaker 1: the remaining moments of our hour here today, the fastest 702 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,720 Speaker 1: hour in politics, will end where we began with the hearing, 703 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: a surprise hearing of the January six Committee, and many 704 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: references throughout this hour to throw and catch up at 705 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: the wall. So let's listen to what we actually heard 706 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: today Cassidy Hutchinson talking about Uh, remember when the billboard 707 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 1: the Attorney General did this interview with the AP and 708 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: said that he couldn't find any evidence that the election 709 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: was not stolen. You wonder what happened that day inside 710 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: the West Wing, inside the Residents or the oval. Cassidy 711 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: Hutchinson brought us there. After Mark had returned, I left 712 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 1: the office and went down to the dining room, and 713 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: I noticed that the door was propped open and the 714 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: valet was inside the dining room changing the tablecloth off 715 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: of the dining room table. He motioned for me to 716 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: come in and then pointed towards the front of the room, 717 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: near the fireplace, mantel and the TV, where I first 718 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: noticed there was catchup dripping down the wall, and there's 719 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: a shattered porcelain plate on the floor. The valet had 720 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 1: articulated that the President was extremely angry at the Attorney 721 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: General's AP interview and had thrown his lunch against the 722 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: wall um, which was causing them to have to clean up. 723 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: So I grabbed a towel and started wiping the catch 724 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: up off of the wall to help the valet out um, 725 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: and he said something to the effect of he's really 726 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: ticked off about this. I would stay clear of him 727 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: for right now. He's really really ticked off about this 728 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 1: right now. Not exactly aligning with the current environment when 729 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,800 Speaker 1: it comes to office politics, Rick Davis. But we we 730 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: we know this kind of rings true because well, he 731 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: puts ketch up on everything. The man is a catchup fanatic. 732 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: And uh and it's sad m I served in the 733 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,320 Speaker 1: White House with Ron Reagan, who never took his jacket 734 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: off in the Oval office because he felt that it 735 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: required that level of uh, distinguished behavior. And and here's 736 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 1: a president who's throwing plates against the wall. You know, 737 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: those plates are owned by the American people, Mr President. 738 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: I mean, like you know, you're you're these are not 739 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: yours to break. So uh, I don't know. I mean, 740 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,720 Speaker 1: of all the incursions that that Donald Trump did while 741 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,439 Speaker 1: president United States, this is probably one of the minor ones, 742 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: but it is one of the more entertaining ones. Well, 743 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: I suppose there we go again with that. Jennie. She 744 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,320 Speaker 1: said it wasn't the first time he was throwing plates 745 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: around the White House. What it's stunning, and you know, 746 00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: you listen to it, it's stunning. On the one hand, 747 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 1: it's not so stunning on the other And one thing 748 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 1: I kept trying to understand was he's grabbing the wheel. 749 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: What was he going to do if he got to 750 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: the Capitol? On January six, Sanity all around the dog 751 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: that caught the car Rick and Jeannie with us here 752 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: our panel on a Great Sound on edition live from 753 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: World Headquarters in New York passed the catch up. This 754 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg