Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Charle Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanobek. We're here every day bringing
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Speaker 1: You can also listen to our radio show at two
Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on
Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. I love Fridays for a
Speaker 1: lot of reasons, but one of the reasons. One of
Speaker 1: the big reasons is that we get to catch up
Speaker 1: with our next guest him. Yeah, it's Dr Ian LUs Bader.
Speaker 1: He's clinical Associate Professor of medicine. He joins us each
Speaker 1: and every Friday from n y U lingo in a
Speaker 1: medical center and joining us on the phone from New
Speaker 1: York City. Dr LUs Bader, how have you been thinking
Speaker 1: about this week? Because there are a couple different stories
Speaker 1: playing out. Yes, vaccines are increasing, but we are also
Speaker 1: seeing hotspots emerged in places here in the United States,
Speaker 1: like Michigan, for example, UM, how do you how do
Speaker 1: you look at those pieces of data that kind of conflict?
Speaker 1: For sure? Happy Friday. So I think afore we're continuing
Speaker 1: to make progress. We're certainly up to at least twenty
Speaker 1: of the population now that have been vaccinated, and I
Speaker 1: think we're inching towards her community, which you know, hopefully
Speaker 1: over the next month or two that combined with people
Speaker 1: who've already had uh COVID nineteen infections, hopefully we will
Speaker 1: get closer to her community. And that's really the only
Speaker 1: way I think that we are going to stop UM
Speaker 1: not only this spread, but stop some of the mutations
Speaker 1: that we've been seeing that are are serious concerns. Hard
Speaker 1: to know why. There is some specific pockets like Michigan
Speaker 1: that are seeing a bit of an upsurge. Part of
Speaker 1: it probably is temperature, meaning we think is the season
Speaker 1: gets a little warmer, there's a little less viral activity.
Speaker 1: But I think overall we've made UM would progress. There's
Speaker 1: still some vaccine hesitancy. I'm not sure in Michigan effects
Speaker 1: related as well as the weather, but I think we
Speaker 1: still have some concerns. Although I think they were starting
Speaker 1: to be light at the end of the tunnel. So
Speaker 1: Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan has asked and called for
Speaker 1: Michiganders to suspend social activities voluntarily for two weeks. She's
Speaker 1: also asked the federal government to prioritize additional vaccines to
Speaker 1: the state to help spread to help stop the spread
Speaker 1: of COVID. There are those the right moves because there
Speaker 1: there isn't really general scientific consensus on this, because even
Speaker 1: if more vaccines were to get there, the period of
Speaker 1: time it takes for the vaccines to start working, when
Speaker 1: the virus just sort of do what it does naturally
Speaker 1: in that period of time. Yes, you're you're You're exactly right.
Speaker 1: I think there is a multitude of reasons to really
Speaker 1: vaccinate as many people as possible. I think we're seeing overall,
Speaker 1: despite a few concerns here, and they're very high vaccine
Speaker 1: safety and very high vaccine efficacy. And now we're really
Speaker 1: broadening out the ages and availability, which I think is
Speaker 1: important because young people certainly can be a reservoir relatively asymptomatic,
Speaker 1: So I think that that is important. Uh, And you're
Speaker 1: exactly right, even though you closed down for two weeks,
Speaker 1: even if you started vaccinating everyone, Uh, it takes really
Speaker 1: at least two weeks to begin to get some antibody response,
Speaker 1: and we do certainly know patients who get COVID in
Speaker 1: between their first and second shots. So I think it's helpful.
Speaker 1: I think one could argue, you know, how helpful it
Speaker 1: would be really to do just a two weeks shutdown,
Speaker 1: and you always have to weigh that against economic fallout
Speaker 1: in consequences. But I think getting more vaccine and getting
Speaker 1: it into people's arms will certainly make a positive impact
Speaker 1: over the long term. Over the short term, you're right,
Speaker 1: it may not make a significant impact. Hey, dcrlis Bader,
Speaker 1: I'm curious how concerned you are about the concerns about
Speaker 1: Astra Zeneca's vaccine. France pulling the vaccine as a second
Speaker 1: shot for those under fifty five who have already had
Speaker 1: their first dose, and then the EU their drug regulators
Speaker 1: start a review to assess blood clots and people who
Speaker 1: received J and Jay's COVID nineteen vaccine. I mean, the
Speaker 1: message has been we're going to need multiple vaccines to
Speaker 1: get over this. So when you see those kinds of stories,
Speaker 1: how troubling. Do you find them, uh, somewhat troubling, but
Speaker 1: not very troubling. Basically, we do know all of the
Speaker 1: vaccines are quite efficacious and have a low, not zero,
Speaker 1: but a low overall incidence of side effects. I think
Speaker 1: they really need to do more due diligence and find
Speaker 1: out if those clots really are related to the vaccine.
Speaker 1: When you're vaccinating millions or hundreds of millions of people,
Speaker 1: you can always correlate UH deaths or neurologic issues or clots.
Speaker 1: I mean, this happens in large populations. The real question
Speaker 1: is can we tie it specifically to the vaccine or not?
Speaker 1: And I think we need to wait for that data,
Speaker 1: and it probably is reasonable to take a little bit
Speaker 1: of a pause while you're clarifying that. But certainly the
Speaker 1: other vaccines, the fiser Maderna vaccine generally are available. We've
Speaker 1: not seen any significant problems with those. I would be
Speaker 1: a little surprised to to really believe or see data
Speaker 1: with clotting because they use um kind of an old
Speaker 1: fashioned technique of this viral vector where you have this
Speaker 1: benign virus that introduces the UH important part of the
Speaker 1: spike protein to to generate antibodies, and that's worked in
Speaker 1: the past without any significant, you know, complications, So I
Speaker 1: think it's a concern. Um, I agree, maybe taking a pause.
Speaker 1: It's a risk benefit versus you know, having other people
Speaker 1: not be vaccinated. But I think it is reasonable to
Speaker 1: look into that, although I'm skeptical that will pan out. Hey,
Speaker 1: just quickly, thirty seconds and then we'll come back and
Speaker 1: talk some more about FISER today, just about an hour
Speaker 1: or so ago. Uh, they're looking for US approval to
Speaker 1: EXPA in the vaccine vaccine for emergency authorization. We're talking
Speaker 1: about for adolescence now, Um, that's a big step forward potentially,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, huge. I think it's it's important. Look, we've
Speaker 1: been giving kids vaccines, even hepatitis B vaccine, you can't
Speaker 1: start kindergarten. So this sort of vaccine fear and young
Speaker 1: people I think is not really well founded. Obviously we
Speaker 1: don't have you know, years of data, but I think
Speaker 1: it is reasonable, and I think there are complications, some
Speaker 1: complications rarely with young people, So I'm I support the
Speaker 1: twelve to fifteen. Basically, if we vaccinate a large group,
Speaker 1: we will decrease um mutations and overall gets a heart immunity,
Speaker 1: and I kind of want to do a town hall
Speaker 1: with you because I got a couple of quick questions
Speaker 1: and then I want to move on to stress in
Speaker 1: Wall Street. But question is can you mix and match
Speaker 1: COVID vaccines? We don't really know what we think you
Speaker 1: can and there may be some benefit to that. UM.
Speaker 1: We're not in that position yet, but certainly for other
Speaker 1: countries that hopefully we'll come off rate with who need
Speaker 1: extra vaccine if we wind up having extra UM, if
Speaker 1: they've had one, it's probably very reasonable to give a
Speaker 1: second dose of another vaccine. Hasn't been well studied, but
Speaker 1: theoretically fine and probably will work out very well. All right.
Speaker 1: Second question, researchers identifying five new cases of double mutant
Speaker 1: COVID variance in California. I feel like I'm watching a
Speaker 1: crazy movie. What what does that mean? That is concerning?
Speaker 1: And this double mutant variant has been seen in India extensively.
Speaker 1: It certainly means if we're seeing five or more cases here,
Speaker 1: there are probably a lot more that are not found.
Speaker 1: The problem with not reaching her immunity quickly is that
Speaker 1: you get variants, and you get the more the virus
Speaker 1: replicates the more mutations, and these mutations are more aggressive,
Speaker 1: easier to spread, and maybe somewhat resistant to the vaccine.
Speaker 1: So this something is something that needs to be watched.
Speaker 1: Potentially is quite a concern and hopefully more cases will
Speaker 1: not be found, but this could be a real problem. Okay,
Speaker 1: another one for the lightning. What happens if you don't
Speaker 1: know that you have COVID, like you're asymptomatic, and you
Speaker 1: get a shot for the vaccine. Do we know what happens?
Speaker 1: Probably not much. It may not be as effective where
Speaker 1: you may have more side effects such as some fever,
Speaker 1: it chills. There's certainly no danger to it um and
Speaker 1: it probably will just boost your own immune response, which
Speaker 1: is fine, all right. Last lightning round wealthiest countries getting
Speaker 1: the vaccinine vaccine and vaccinated faster. You know, we keep
Speaker 1: talking with people about the concerns about that. What do
Speaker 1: you what are your thoughts on that? You know, it
Speaker 1: would be great if life were fair, and it would
Speaker 1: be everyone wants to feel and control. Humans like to feel, uh,
Speaker 1: they hate change. They love to be in control. And
Speaker 1: this pandemic has certainly disturbed that. I think it's reasonable
Speaker 1: for the countries that have developed the vaccine and funded it,
Speaker 1: you know, to get it. But unless we really do
Speaker 1: share extra for example, with Mexico into our southern border
Speaker 1: that really has a very little vaccine, and around the world,
Speaker 1: all we're going to do is prolong the infection for everyone.
Speaker 1: So I think it's in everyone's interest to collaborate and share.
Speaker 1: But I do think it's reasonable for the countries that
Speaker 1: have paid for it, you know, to get it first,
Speaker 1: but certainly not to hoard it. Okay, I didn't mean
Speaker 1: to stress you out with that, but speaking not at all,
Speaker 1: you're so good. But speaking of stress, uh, Wall Street,
Speaker 1: we feel like all of a sudden, we've seen a
Speaker 1: flurry of stories. Real Bank of Canada and Toronto Dominion
Speaker 1: Bank they're giving employees an extra paid day off this
Speaker 1: year as the pandemic is showing signs of worsening in Canada.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are concerns about strength, you know, early
Speaker 1: first time junior investment bankers, you know, telling that you know,
Speaker 1: the firms are saying you don't have to work on
Speaker 1: the weekend. Wall Street stress, Um, you're you know, do
Speaker 1: you feel like companies and the world is thinking differently
Speaker 1: about how stress impacts us as workers. I think so.
Speaker 1: I think companies are thinking a bit differently. They're hopefully
Speaker 1: thinking more about their employees. This has been a very
Speaker 1: stressful time. They're documented increased stress, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, fatigue.
Speaker 1: You know, humans don't like change, they don't like to
Speaker 1: be vulnerable. We do a lot of things to pretend
Speaker 1: we're not vulnerable, even though we are. And I think
Speaker 1: it's reasonable for companies to make some accommodation. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, people have to sort of step up and say,
Speaker 1: you know, life is challenging, let's help each other, let's collaborate,
Speaker 1: Let's be nurturing to each other if we can. Um
Speaker 1: But stress comes along and there there will be other
Speaker 1: problems along the way, and I think we have to,
Speaker 1: you know, accommodate, but not make people assume that life
Speaker 1: is going to be easy. Dr Las Beta. We only
Speaker 1: have thirty seconds left for this, but do you just
Speaker 1: leave us with a little tip to help us de
Speaker 1: stress for the weekend. If people are starting to feel
Speaker 1: burned out getting the fourteen months into this pandemic one,
Speaker 1: I think people should feel encouraged that we're getting closer
Speaker 1: to her community, nurture yourself, socialized very important to socialize
Speaker 1: either with distance outside six ft exercise. The weather is
Speaker 1: getting nicer, take your vitamin D and I think there
Speaker 1: is light at the end of the tunnel and we
Speaker 1: do have to hang in there a little bit longer.
Speaker 1: Thank you. We appreciate that. I like to end on
Speaker 1: that good, good idea and good advice. Ian, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Dr Ian los Bader, clinical professor of Medicine
Speaker 1: at n y U Landown, on the phone in New
Speaker 1: York City. I have to say, is it's gotten warmer, Tim,
Speaker 1: that has given me some optimism. Yeah, you know, it's
Speaker 1: been great. It's just going on walks after work or
Speaker 1: later at night when it's like not too cold out.
Speaker 1: It has helps so much. This is Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Well, there's a story in the magazine this week.
Speaker 1: It's about the big pharmaceutical company that was out in
Speaker 1: front in the race for a vaccine, Tim until it wasn't.
Speaker 1: That company is Astra Zeneca. Joel Weber is an editor,
Speaker 1: is the editor of Bloomberg Business We excuse me, Jolly
Speaker 1: joins us on the remote from Brooklyn. Jeremy Keane is
Speaker 1: the futures editor at Bloomberg Business Week, and he joins
Speaker 1: us on the phone from Turkey, Joel, what happened with
Speaker 1: Astra Zeneca well is one of the most interesting stories
Speaker 1: I think UM in in the pandemic because there was
Speaker 1: this collaboration between Oxford University and Astra at that at
Speaker 1: the start it really looked like it was gonna be
Speaker 1: the first vaccine out of the gate that people would
Speaker 1: be able to use. And and the beauty of this
Speaker 1: particular vaccine, of course, is that it is really cheap
Speaker 1: to make and does not require refrigeration, and so from
Speaker 1: the get go it was viewed as this great hope
Speaker 1: because it would be basically the world's vaccine um it.
Speaker 1: As the UH trials went along, the Astra Zeneca started
Speaker 1: to have some unforced errors and that's led to where
Speaker 1: we are now, which is that the company has been
Speaker 1: sort of mired in and confusion and hesitancy. And the
Speaker 1: ultimate is cure is that UM a vaccine that does
Speaker 1: look to be effective. And there has been recent news
Speaker 1: about UH some current concerns about UM clots that should
Speaker 1: be taken seriously. But but the pluses continue to outweigh
Speaker 1: the minuses. Um, yet we we could end up prolonging
Speaker 1: the pandemic because of the hesitancy around the vaccine. So
Speaker 1: so Jeremy was the guiding editor on this story. UM, Jeremy,
Speaker 1: I'm just curious to you as as you got into this,
Speaker 1: Like there was so much There's been so many stories
Speaker 1: about astro over the past several months, and like, I
Speaker 1: think this was the best read that pulled it all together.
Speaker 1: And I'm curious to you, like, what what were the
Speaker 1: things that really stood out to you as you were
Speaker 1: editing the story. I think you know, for me, joll
Speaker 1: it was the sense almost as it's I hesitated to
Speaker 1: the author of tragedy because like, this is still a
Speaker 1: good vaccine, you know, like they they're the the Affrica
Speaker 1: series lots and pretty good at being very good, I
Speaker 1: would say, in the mid seventies. UM. And the you
Speaker 1: know that the clotting is something that you know, governments
Speaker 1: are clearly taking very seriously. UM. But it becomes hard
Speaker 1: to kind of separate what, um, you know, the story
Speaker 1: of the vaccine from from the cauldron of the pandemic
Speaker 1: and all the things that you know they were doing
Speaker 1: as the front that were really that they they were
Speaker 1: trying to do something under immense pressure. The world was,
Speaker 1: you know, shutting down everybody. You know, people were dying
Speaker 1: really quickly. And the company in partnership with UM, you know,
Speaker 1: with the University of Oxford that you know, they set
Speaker 1: terms that were designed to have the vaccine be not
Speaker 1: for profit. There are so many good intentions that that
Speaker 1: went into it. And you know, it's true that they
Speaker 1: had a lot of unforced dairs, but even some of
Speaker 1: those unforced errors are difficult to separate in a way
Speaker 1: from UM you know, just from from the way that
Speaker 1: things are perceived during a pandemic versus the way that
Speaker 1: they might have been perceived outside that context. You know,
Speaker 1: like those trials we're so closely watched and you know, yeah, right, well,
Speaker 1: you know, Jonathan, how much of it was I mean, jeremy,
Speaker 1: excuse me, how much of it was that this was
Speaker 1: you know, it was a partnership. It was kind of complicated.
Speaker 1: I mean, Oxford was, you know, I think starting their trials,
Speaker 1: it was recording this story, you know, when Astra came in,
Speaker 1: you know, so it was kind of a complicated relationship.
Speaker 1: I feel like from the get go, and also this
Speaker 1: is the first vaccine, right that Astra has done. That's
Speaker 1: that's correct. They have they have they had a flu
Speaker 1: um treatment. I believe that that was pretty much the
Speaker 1: only the only thing that they that they had really
Speaker 1: done in that area. And you know, they definitely had
Speaker 1: a very good reputation heading in under under their their CEO.
Speaker 1: You know, they'd really gotten a good reputation for putting uh,
Speaker 1: you know, drugs, particularly cancer drugs, getting new treatments on
Speaker 1: the market. Um. But when they came in, you know,
Speaker 1: like Oxford had already been working on this, they had
Speaker 1: already begun plans for UK and Brazil and South African trial,
Speaker 1: so they took over that part of it, and then
Speaker 1: you know, Astro said, okay, well we'll we'll work out
Speaker 1: the US trial. And so you know, right at the
Speaker 1: very beginning, there was there wasn't one trial protocol that
Speaker 1: was going on everywhere, and you know that that makes
Speaker 1: a little harder to kind of explain what you're doing
Speaker 1: and to keep track of things and to tell your story,
Speaker 1: to tell the story of what you're what your vaccine
Speaker 1: can do to the public. Well, speaking of that, what
Speaker 1: is the potential consequence of these blunders over the past
Speaker 1: few months from Astro's enco when it comes to the
Speaker 1: global rollout here, because this is this was supposed to
Speaker 1: this is what was supposed to be a vaccine that
Speaker 1: was really supposed to help prevent COVID in many people
Speaker 1: around the world because it's so much easy to transport
Speaker 1: than the m R and A shots from Visor and
Speaker 1: moderna Joel take it away and go ahead, Jeremy Well,
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say quickly that and to be clear,
Speaker 1: like you know, it's still doing that in places that
Speaker 1: you know there. But the consequences, of course are especially
Speaker 1: with the you know the report that just a couple
Speaker 1: of days ago, um, you know, the the the European
Speaker 1: Regulatory Agency, the British Regulatory Agency can come out and
Speaker 1: discussed a possible link between the vaccine and these blood
Speaker 1: clots and you know, we're talking about an incidence. I
Speaker 1: believe it's for every million. Was the figure that that
Speaker 1: the UK I'm not mistaken them up with, and you know,
Speaker 1: so that you can talk about where that lies on
Speaker 1: the continuum of risk. But they're all these people are
Speaker 1: also still saying like the benefits of taking it far
Speaker 1: away the risk especially in the elderly where the incidents
Speaker 1: of clotting seems to be lower, and also UM and
Speaker 1: also because the risk of of what happens if if
Speaker 1: you catch COVID is so much higher. So you know,
Speaker 1: that's all still that that part is still true like that,
Speaker 1: you know, they still want to be getting this vaccine
Speaker 1: out there into the world. But there's also the problem
Speaker 1: of course that hesitancy. UM. You know. We one thing
Speaker 1: that that that's discussed towards towards the end of the
Speaker 1: piece is that UM. You know, you have people coming
Speaker 1: out and saying this is partly a public relations problem
Speaker 1: because people see these mistakes, these the and you know,
Speaker 1: these the reports about the clots come up and people
Speaker 1: die away from taking something that the world needs people
Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, I think that that confusion part is
Speaker 1: the ultimate um uh unforced air. Right. Had this uh
Speaker 1: collaboration gone more more smoothly, UM, we probably would have
Speaker 1: had a vaccine that people would not have had any
Speaker 1: hesitancy about UM. And instead we've inserted a modest amount
Speaker 1: of head fakery into this whole thing, and that's just
Speaker 1: leads to confusion. And you know, the number one thing
Speaker 1: is we're seeing um around the world is like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is still a very lethal virus. The mutations UM
Speaker 1: we we still don't undersstand. And the more people that
Speaker 1: get vaccinated, the more protection that we have. So the
Speaker 1: hesitancy is really just impeding it. So the fact that
Speaker 1: this goes from first to last, and then I have
Speaker 1: to say, like, you know, the kicker of the story
Speaker 1: of just like from astros in Eco's perspective, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: even probably done this if they were to do it
Speaker 1: all over again. I just think really kind of sums
Speaker 1: it all up. Not easy to go from favorite child
Speaker 1: to problem child, that's for sure. Hey, Jole, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Joe Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week, Jeremy Keane,
Speaker 1: the Features editor of the magazine. This is Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. All right, Tim, so you remember the
Speaker 1: story we told everyone about a few weeks ago as
Speaker 1: a Bloomberg exclusive is broken by one of our reporters.
Speaker 1: It was about to start up Varcada and thousands of
Speaker 1: its surveillance devices were hacked into. We are learning more
Speaker 1: though about that company, including about the fat boys culture
Speaker 1: that rained there. It's our most read story on the Bloomberg. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and for a good reason. Uh, it is a fantastic story.
Speaker 1: William Turton is a Bloomberg New cybersecurity reporter and he
Speaker 1: joins us on the phone. Now, William, I'm glad we're
Speaker 1: getting to talk about this again. William was on Quick
Speaker 1: Take with me a little earlier in the day to
Speaker 1: talk about this story. What did you learn about the
Speaker 1: culture of Vercada and hey, how perhaps it was connected
Speaker 1: to the problems that the company has had when it
Speaker 1: comes to its own cybersecurity. Thanks for having me. So
Speaker 1: we spoke to you know, eight current and about sixteen
Speaker 1: former employees who told us that, you know the company
Speaker 1: in some ways, it's comparable to a frat house, you know,
Speaker 1: particularly as sales t the sales team was really focused
Speaker 1: on profits in scale um and in the course of
Speaker 1: doing that, they threw a lot of parties, even parties
Speaker 1: during the pandemic. But they also mislead their customers. They
Speaker 1: told them they made them promises about the security of
Speaker 1: its products. It just simply weren't true. They told potential
Speaker 1: customers that Ricotto Commerce are virtually unhappable. They would tell
Speaker 1: customers that Ricotto was an M I T slash Stanford company,
Speaker 1: which is not true. Just the co founders are alumni
Speaker 1: of and my team Stanford. UM and so you know
Speaker 1: this culture. A lot of employees said that, you know,
Speaker 1: when the hack eventually happened, they weren't that surprised because,
Speaker 1: you know, for a company that has so much valuable
Speaker 1: kind of insight and it's essentially running just kind of
Speaker 1: a massive private surveillance state. Um, they didn't take a
Speaker 1: lot of care to make sure that the privacy and
Speaker 1: security of cameras were protected. And yet they have some
Speaker 1: impressive investors Sekoya Capital. Yeah, yeah, you know, they've raised
Speaker 1: ten millions of dollars in center capital investment. They've grown
Speaker 1: extremely quickly. They've gone you know, they started in essentially
Speaker 1: no market share to now being one of the biggest
Speaker 1: players in the market. Um. And and that is because
Speaker 1: you know, they had such a massive cash infusion, right
Speaker 1: um And so right, it does beg the question where
Speaker 1: was the oversight, Where was uh, you know, the adults
Speaker 1: in the room basically to make sure that you know,
Speaker 1: saying the company wasn't run like this in a way
Speaker 1: that you know, people told us they felt like they
Speaker 1: were bullied, women felt like they were degraded, um um.
Speaker 1: And where you know, with the oversight to make sure
Speaker 1: a massive hack like that that you know, probably all
Speaker 1: of the company's reputation for a very long time didn't happen.
Speaker 1: Can I just say it's an incredible work of reporting
Speaker 1: by you Ryan Gallagher, Sarah McBride and Brody Ford, because
Speaker 1: you guys, I mean tell us about it you talked
Speaker 1: to because you get into very a lot of specifics. Um.
Speaker 1: Certainly what as anated with me was some of the
Speaker 1: things about video footage of female employees being passed around
Speaker 1: among male colleagues, who then offered graphic comments. Um. Tell
Speaker 1: us who you talked to to really kind of confirm
Speaker 1: what was going on, because these are some big charges. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you know, we spoke to uh, current and former employees,
Speaker 1: and you know, I will say we did speak to
Speaker 1: some people who defended the company, but you know, even
Speaker 1: the people that we spoke to who defended the company
Speaker 1: could not deny the reality of the culture for product. Right.
Speaker 1: But you know, the company has said that they're making changes,
Speaker 1: they're they're trying to make it a more inclusive and
Speaker 1: equitable workplace. UM. But you know employees have not seen
Speaker 1: that change yet. UM. You know, we we spoke to
Speaker 1: people who are currently so employed there and and you
Speaker 1: know they've said, not much has changed. UM. So you
Speaker 1: know it's it's it's gonna be interesting to see what
Speaker 1: happens with the company moving forward, William. When you when
Speaker 1: you dig into histories of of Silicon Valley startups that
Speaker 1: are now big companies, you often do find time and
Speaker 1: instances where they were frat like environments. And I brought
Speaker 1: this up earlier in our conversation. Reading your story today,
Speaker 1: it really reminded me of what I read about Uber
Speaker 1: and Travis Kalenik in this god mode that allowed so
Speaker 1: many employees to actually see where specific customers were going
Speaker 1: in Uber at any given time. Is what happened at
Speaker 1: Vracada so much different than what has happened at so
Speaker 1: many other Silicon Valley startups? Right, right, I mean, a
Speaker 1: god mode is such a good compacter because it's so uh,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's almost exactly the same. Right. There
Speaker 1: was a feature at admin at Ricata called super Admin
Speaker 1: that allowed hundreds of its employees to view the live
Speaker 1: speeds or archived videos of any of its customers. And
Speaker 1: that's also the hackers got in through one of those accounts.
Speaker 1: And you know, initially I think some people try to say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: they should secure those accounts better so the hackers can't
Speaker 1: get in. And the response was, no, those accounts should
Speaker 1: not exist, that ability should not exist. And now Ricata
Speaker 1: has gotten rid of that feature and they have new
Speaker 1: process whereby customers have to kind of manually grant Forcata
Speaker 1: access to its cameras. Um. So you know, it is
Speaker 1: it's a it's a great question, Like it is kind
Speaker 1: of preparable to a lot of the cultures here. But
Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the day, this company
Speaker 1: is in charge of tons of surveillance cameras, so you
Speaker 1: might expect, you know, a little bit more decora and
Speaker 1: professionalism and like kind of understanding the weight of the
Speaker 1: responsibility they have. Well, even Sekoia Capital what their most
Speaker 1: prominent investor. As you kick off your story, they had
Speaker 1: a pretty heated conversation it sounds like with Vercata after
Speaker 1: this hacking came out about like shut off the cameras
Speaker 1: to us, Yes, I mean this was one of the
Speaker 1: most remarkable moments for us when we were reporting the story.
Speaker 1: You know, in the wake of the hack, Forcata was
Speaker 1: having these weekly webinars with the CEO where they would
Speaker 1: answer questions from customers. And not only was the koya
Speaker 1: uh an investor in the company, you know, they also
Speaker 1: used for Cata cameras, right, and so it was kind
Speaker 1: of incredible for us to see one of their I
Speaker 1: T employees on that call asking, hey, um, how can
Speaker 1: we make it so Racotta employees can access our cameras.
Speaker 1: I mean, that was a really stunning moment. Honestly, in
Speaker 1: our reporting what happened at the Casper Mattress store, and
Speaker 1: you only have thirty seconds, a drunken sales party that
Speaker 1: was in part a scavenger hunt ended up inside of
Speaker 1: Cusper Matress store. Many drunken employees were wrestling, taking pictures
Speaker 1: closing on the bed, so much so that a customer
Speaker 1: service person in the cast Re store called the Ricotta
Speaker 1: customer service line to ask them to bring someone in
Speaker 1: to knock it off. And they knew they were doing
Speaker 1: that because we're all wearing for Catta merchandise while they
Speaker 1: were in the store. Listen, unbelievable. You got to go
Speaker 1: to the story. There's so much detail about what was
Speaker 1: going on at the company. But I also to be fair, Um,
Speaker 1: you did also ask Raccata to address all of these issues.
Speaker 1: So it's all in this story because they have certainly
Speaker 1: responses to the concerns about how it was being marketed
Speaker 1: and what was going on inside the front Great piece
Speaker 1: of reporting. Another great piece of reporting because we Turtin
Speaker 1: broke that initial hacking story for us a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1: William Turton, cybersecurity reporter at Bloomberg News, on the phone
Speaker 1: in New York City, Brother, a journal Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: let me drive? Oh no, no, no no, no, home honey, please,
Speaker 1: I'll do the riding drivel. I want to drive, Just drive, baby,
Speaker 1: the questions trying. This is the drive to the globe.
Speaker 1: Give me thanks. We'll drying us on Bloomberg Radio. All right,
Speaker 1: we've just got about nine minutes left in today's trading session.
Speaker 1: We're getting ready to wrap up the day and the week.
Speaker 1: And this is a week where we have seen quite
Speaker 1: a rally. Tim, Yeah, we really have. Um. You hear
Speaker 1: the numbers from Charlie just now. The SP five higher
Speaker 1: by seven tenths of one percent. Right now, the dale
Speaker 1: higher by eight tenths of one percent and weren't trading
Speaker 1: near records. Yeah, and we're up big time, almost two
Speaker 1: point six percent for the week overall on the S
Speaker 1: and P. So let's get to it with Danta di Oria.
Speaker 1: She's co chief investment officer the publicly held invest NEET PMC.
Speaker 1: She joins us on the phone in Connecticut. Um, Dana,
Speaker 1: nice to have you here with Tim and myself. How
Speaker 1: are you good? Thanks so much for having me. I'm
Speaker 1: glad to be here. Well, Quit great to have you
Speaker 1: here too. Uh. It's been an interesting week. For a while.
Speaker 1: We were like hohm, looking for reasons for you know,
Speaker 1: there were days where we were up a little bit,
Speaker 1: down a little but yet by the end of the
Speaker 1: week we've seen a pretty significant move to the upside. Here.
Speaker 1: What's the macro backdrop here? Yeah, well, I think, um,
Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of good indicators and um, you know,
Speaker 1: across the board, so consumer sentiment is up, obviously, consumer
Speaker 1: confidence is up. We had a great jobs report, as
Speaker 1: you know, added um sixteen thousand jobs in March. Um
Speaker 1: p m I is up, so uh really kind of
Speaker 1: across the board, there's a lot of good indicators, and
Speaker 1: of course we have the COVID checks kind of hitting,
Speaker 1: so it makes sense that it makes sense that that
Speaker 1: stocks would follow obviously. So what do rails this though?
Speaker 1: I mean, we we've talked about this throughout the show today,
Speaker 1: just what we've seen so far this year. For the
Speaker 1: week Carol mentioned the number for the year, it's up
Speaker 1: nine percent, Dow up more than NASDAK up more than
Speaker 1: seven point seven pent, Like, what what do rails this rally? Here? Well,
Speaker 1: we do have the specter of earning season coming and um,
Speaker 1: you know the newly released tax bill proposal, and so
Speaker 1: I think you know, we do have obviously all of
Speaker 1: this monetary stimulus. But at the same time, now the
Speaker 1: market needs to grapple with what what does it mean?
Speaker 1: You know, these these corporate tax increases, And I think
Speaker 1: you're getting more and more detail kind of coming out
Speaker 1: on this and analysis is happening, and it will definitely
Speaker 1: be interesting to see as earning seasons off, what companies
Speaker 1: have to say as they start to look and say, okay,
Speaker 1: what does this mean for you know, our dividends are
Speaker 1: our buy back capex that's that are right? Even are hiring?
Speaker 1: So I think, um, what potentially derails it is sort
Speaker 1: of analysis and kind of a stinking in on what this,
Speaker 1: what these tact pikes could mean. It's obviously a very
Speaker 1: ambitious bill and um, you know that that kind of
Speaker 1: getting priced in which I don't think we've quite seen yet. Hey,
Speaker 1: let me ask you, Dana, because investment provides a lot
Speaker 1: of support for financial advisors software tools, and from what
Speaker 1: I understand, your footprint is around million investor accounts. So
Speaker 1: what are we seeing those investor accounts? Where is new
Speaker 1: money being committed? What kind of growth are we seeing
Speaker 1: in terms of new funds being committed to investing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so well, just at a high level, money is going
Speaker 1: into equities. As you can imagine this last quarter with
Speaker 1: the interest rate increases, fixed income kind of really took
Speaker 1: a hit. So we know, just at a high level,
Speaker 1: equity are seeing in flows, um, fixed income maybe some
Speaker 1: some decreases. I will say an individual investor accounts that
Speaker 1: are guided by advisors, they they're not as pick to
Speaker 1: move maybe, um, you know as some of the retail
Speaker 1: assets that are you know, direct directed brokerage, because the
Speaker 1: advisor is they're trying to prescribe some discipline keep you
Speaker 1: to your plan, right, if you're a sixty forty, trying
Speaker 1: to sort of keep you in that sixty forty And
Speaker 1: if after the last quarter that we had, you'd actually
Speaker 1: be if you were rebalancing, you'd be um buying, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you'd be buying in the reverse because of
Speaker 1: course you had a loss in fixed income, which is
Speaker 1: which is unusual. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: now getting their quarterly statements and looking and saying, wow,
Speaker 1: I lost three hundred basis points in my fixed income?
Speaker 1: Are are you know, kind of grappling with that a
Speaker 1: little bit? But ass are there to provide discipline and
Speaker 1: you know, well, let me ask you about this because
Speaker 1: we've had a lot of discussions here on Bloomberg. A
Speaker 1: lot of people are asking, you know, at the sixty
Speaker 1: forty portfolio is no longer good enough, especially if you
Speaker 1: take a look at what's happened in trade shoull fixed
Speaker 1: income over the last decade or so. It's been hard
Speaker 1: to find yield. So sixty forty or is it still
Speaker 1: That's what you guys are seeing in terms of the
Speaker 1: investor accounts at people and financial advisors, they're still playing
Speaker 1: it kind of traditionally safe. Yeah, it'll be it'll take
Speaker 1: a lot to move that right that a d percent.
Speaker 1: That's a topic of conversation, um, and you know, are
Speaker 1: there ways to get better yield? So certainly more interest
Speaker 1: in private markets. I mean obviously you're looking then at
Speaker 1: a credited investors, qualified purchasers, but to the extent that
Speaker 1: you know you're in the high network space, definitely looking
Speaker 1: at private markets and alternative options to say, okay, can
Speaker 1: I diversify that fixed income position? I mean, if you're
Speaker 1: in a sixty forty, you think about the chunk of
Speaker 1: money right out of your overall investment that you're putting
Speaker 1: into something that's really low yielding. Return isn't great. And
Speaker 1: now of course, as as I mentioned, you're you're even
Speaker 1: seeing losses. You know, the story had been well at
Speaker 1: least at least at least it's a mattress, right and
Speaker 1: now it's not even that So so yes, percents, there's
Speaker 1: questions about that. I think, um loquid also as well
Speaker 1: for not credited. Listen, Dana, we gotta run um, but
Speaker 1: really appreciate your input today. Have a good week in
Speaker 1: Dana Dioria, Co Chief Investment Officer of Investment PMC. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud,
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