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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. There's the man, the myth legend,

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Speaker 1: our super producer, mister Max Williams. Yeah, yep, holding up

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Speaker 1: a champion belts for fantasy football NOL. That's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of foreshadowy. That's Noel Brown. I am Ben Boland.

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Speaker 1: This week, we are diving into something that's going to

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Speaker 1: be very familiar and very awesome for a lot of

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Speaker 1: us in the crowd, and then very new information for

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Speaker 1: many other folks, including your faithful correspondence.

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Speaker 2: You're talking about sports man talking about sports.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I got a fantasy about it, sports as Max

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Speaker 3: puts it in this fantastic brief Because Max is of

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Speaker 3: course also our research associated on this episode.

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Speaker 4: They are indeed a thing, not necessarily my thing, but

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Speaker 4: I respect the hustle and I respect the fandom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, one interesting observation I had had, like

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Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, we're lucky to have sports teams that

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Speaker 1: have very deep and complicated relationships with their fans. Shout

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Speaker 1: out to everybody who sat at their local chicken wing

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Speaker 1: spot and stoically watched the Falcons fumble once again or

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Speaker 1: the Atlanta Hawks?

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Speaker 2: Uh is it? People? People love to hate the Falcons

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Speaker 2: and the Hawks. Isn't that right?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 5: The Hawks are just kind of the like, ugh team,

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Speaker 5: what we have. They're kind of like they've been poorly

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Speaker 5: run forever, which is really weird. Like and then and

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Speaker 5: the national zeitgeist of sports right now, they've had like

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Speaker 5: one of, if not the best offseasons in basketball, which

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Speaker 5: is really weird.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, it's new. It's a new development, which.

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Speaker 5: Is good because the one that's normally really good, the

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Speaker 5: Atlanta baseball team is epically terrible this year. There are

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Speaker 5: an embarrassing, embarrassing team and it was like the ownership

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Speaker 5: went cheap on the team. And then the Falcons or

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Speaker 5: the Falcons as I prefer to call, there were the Flackens,

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Speaker 5: which is the Flaggens is what they do when like

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Speaker 5: when like you know, the wide receiver, the first one

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Speaker 5: receiver catches the ball, he's like, I's going to get touchdown.

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Speaker 5: And there's a play couple years ag where the guys

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Speaker 5: just carrying the ball and another player runs up to him,

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Speaker 5: grabs the ball of his hand and rips it out

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Speaker 5: of his hands and runs away. And the Flacins right there,

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Speaker 5: they just they they they they will be the type

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Speaker 5: of thing. Well, they'll be winning or race by a mile,

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Speaker 5: then like trip on their own feet, face plant and

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Speaker 5: then somehow pee themselves.

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Speaker 2: I do remember I'm doing that at a particular Super Bowl.

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Speaker 4: If I's mistaken saw that one in person, Yeah, I

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Speaker 4: mean not at the game, but.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm returning to. Yeah, I was sitting at

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Speaker 1: our favorite chicken wing spot, hanging out there. That's the thing,

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Speaker 1: even if you don't feel that you yourself are an ardent

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Speaker 1: fan or an expert on a particular team or a

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Speaker 1: sport overall, there is, to your point about fandom, there is,

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Speaker 1: in my experience, this absolutely electric, galvanizing energy about going

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Speaker 1: to a live game. I dig it all the time.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, as you guys know, this

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Speaker 1: might be the year I finally get to go to

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Speaker 1: a sumo championship.

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Speaker 4: Ooh, yes, you've been talking about that for lo these

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Speaker 4: many years, and I do hope that that happens for you. Also,

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Speaker 4: to Max's point, something about the way teams are run,

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Speaker 4: the revolving door of players, all of these different variables

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Speaker 4: can contribute to significant changes across the duration of a franchise, right,

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Speaker 4: things that are really important to be keyed into if

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Speaker 4: you want to reliably predict outcomes.

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Speaker 1: Yes, which gets us to ooh, that's great. This gets

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Speaker 1: us to part of what we're exploring. Right. It is

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Speaker 1: very common in any sport fandom for many people with

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Speaker 1: a deep understanding of their team to watch plays being made,

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Speaker 1: or watch strategy being rolled out, and to think to themselves,

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Speaker 1: even if just for a moment, hot dog, I could

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Speaker 1: manage this team better. I have a dream, what would

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Speaker 1: happen if I could? If I could predict and make

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Speaker 1: these plays and leverage my own understanding in some version

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Speaker 1: of reality. That is where we see the rise of

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Speaker 1: fantasy sports. Now, sport has always been a thing in

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Speaker 1: human civilization. It used to be much more violent, much

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Speaker 1: more or bloody. But the concept of deepening your relationship

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Speaker 1: to a team by engaging in fantasy sports is very

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Speaker 1: much a real thing. And as we're going to learn,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of history to this. Max, you had

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Speaker 1: a great example here, and I always love this analogy.

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Speaker 1: We roll it out in stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know. When we talk about weirdness, like the fact

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Speaker 1: that humans sleep. If aliens came down and you tried

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Speaker 1: to explain fantasy sports to them, they would have no

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Speaker 1: idea what you were talking about, and it would indeed

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Speaker 1: arguably be kind of off putting. But it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun. It's a huge market. We're talking something like

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Speaker 1: thirty point four billion dollars valuation in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: that's per SkyQuest, and by twenty thirty two, this industry

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Speaker 1: of fantasy sports overall is going to be somewhere around

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Speaker 1: a five billion.

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Speaker 4: Dollars well, and it's interesting too because we're starting to

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Speaker 4: see the lines blurring between fantasy uh and reality in

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Speaker 4: terms of gambling in the way that figures into that

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Speaker 4: kind of portfolio.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. That's one of the big questions

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Speaker 1: we've got to tackle this week. Tackles whatever smarts accidental. Yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you for the dump, I'm not proud of it.

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Speaker 5: But also if I could jump in real quick, there's

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Speaker 5: actually to Nole's point there, there's UH when it actually

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Speaker 5: comes to actual sports, Like there are cases of people

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Speaker 5: and like the NFL being like, oh, I don't care

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Speaker 5: about your fantasy team and stuff like that and the

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Speaker 5: best kind of argument I said, It's like, well, do

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Speaker 5: you care about your increasing your paycheck? You've gone because

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Speaker 5: Fantasy has made the NFL so much money.

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Speaker 6: Which is one of.

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Speaker 5: The funniest moments in Fantasy last year, which is I

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Speaker 5: can say I had Josh Allen on the championship team

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Speaker 5: that got this belt with when I beat my friend

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Speaker 5: Ronnie Ronnie Phillips, who I'm going to listen to his

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Speaker 5: part where I beat him in the finals and smoked

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Speaker 5: him and he's the commissioner of the league. I'm just

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Speaker 5: twisting the knife a little. Sorry, I'll get back on topic.

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Speaker 5: But like this is play where Josh Allen threw a

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Speaker 5: ball to I think it was Amari Cooper and looked

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Speaker 5: the red zone and Josh Allen's known for being this

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Speaker 5: incredible athlete's like six' five but super fast and, athletic

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Speaker 5: And Mark cooper is, like turns around his, Side he's

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Speaker 5: gonna throw it back To Josh, allen And Josh allen

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Speaker 5: then catches it and dives into the end. Zone so

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Speaker 5: how has scored Is Josh allen threw a touchdown pass to? Himself,

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Speaker 5: Right and so when asked in the interview, afterwards because

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Speaker 5: that's in. Fantasy that's just throw a touchdowns four, points

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Speaker 5: catch you touchdown six, points and there's other points that

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Speaker 5: can go along with it as.

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Speaker 6: Well those are just standard.

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Speaker 5: Stuff Josh allen got ten fantasy points for, that And

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Speaker 5: Josh allen, said, yeah, MAN i was gonna look great

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Speaker 5: on my fantasy scorer because it turns out he has

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Speaker 5: himself in his own fantasy league and it's like there's that.

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Speaker 5: Awareness but to those, points is that blending of the

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Speaker 5: line where it's, like this is a mega, industry like And,

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Speaker 5: ben you're talking about, this is a, mega mega industry

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Speaker 5: that sports take a lot of money off, of and

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Speaker 5: they don't always want to admit, that, right.

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Speaker 1: Right it can be a little bit of a thing

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Speaker 1: that they play to the. Side but it also brings

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Speaker 1: us to a question we'll explore, later an ethical, question

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Speaker 1: not necessarily a legal. One i'd, say more of an ethical.

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Speaker 1: Question should athletes be able to participate in their own fantasy?

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Speaker 1: Sports you know WHAT i?

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Speaker 4: Mean so, well, yeah it's a similar question to like

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Speaker 4: should lawmakers be able to buy and trade?

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Speaker 1: Stocks not? Bad, Yeah I'm i've to. Agree there's also

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Speaker 1: something we learned to given that the pursuit of sports

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Speaker 1: right physical exercise for now recreation and. Amusement because this

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Speaker 1: pursuit is so old in the human, species we're never

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Speaker 1: going to learn the original. Inventor it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: asking who made the first wheel or who figured out

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Speaker 1: how to tame. Fire fantasy sport as an industry or

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Speaker 1: a pursuit is kind of. Similar, So, max you did

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Speaker 1: something really intelligent in setting up our brief here and

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Speaker 1: our exploration by saying it be. Tough it might be

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Speaker 1: a fool's errand for us to try to declare a single. Inventor,

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Speaker 1: instead for this series of ridiculous, history we wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about the, milestones the influential. Steps so along the

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Speaker 1: way we do this by shouting, out of, course one

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Speaker 1: of the best sources in the business, Here Fantasy sports

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Speaker 1: And Gaming association OR, fizga which is an initialism but

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Speaker 1: not an.

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Speaker 4: Acronym Aw, man it's fun to, say, though that's for. Sure, Yeah, YEAH,

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Speaker 4: fizga The Fantasy sports And Gaming. Association as you, Said

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Speaker 4: ben so according TO, fizga which reminds me of Fizz

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Speaker 4: gig From The Dark, crystal that little furball Character i'm

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Speaker 4: a big fan of the very first fantasy sports adjacent,

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Speaker 4: item as they put it in their, history dates back

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Speaker 4: to the late fifties and a man by the name

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Speaker 4: Of wilfred commonly referred to As wink because his last

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Speaker 4: name Is, Winkeenbach, Winkeenbach Wilfred, Wink winkenbach or vinc And.

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Speaker 1: Bach if you're, nasty Yeahch wink is a cool. NICKNAME

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Speaker 1: i like. It this is the, guy as you were, saying,

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Speaker 1: no who devised fantasy. Golf he dreamed up the idea

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Speaker 1: and in his original, ideation each player would select a

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Speaker 1: team of professional golfers and the, player not the professional,

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Speaker 1: golfers but the player who was in this fantasy league

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Speaker 1: would win the game or win the tournament if their

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Speaker 1: team had the lowest total combined number of strokes at

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Speaker 1: the at the end of this. Tournament And wink had

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Speaker 1: this deep special to the biggest fantasy sector in The

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Speaker 1: western world, today THE, nfl because he was a minority

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Speaker 1: owner in The Oakland. Raiders apparently this also informed how

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Speaker 1: he dreamed up the idea of fantasy.

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Speaker 2: Football and The Oakland raiders aren't they didn't they move To.

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Speaker 5: Vegas they are In vegas and it's going totally fine

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Speaker 5: and they have no. Problem you're being, Sarcastic. MAXIMUS i,

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Speaker 5: AM i. Am i'm not sure how it's, going but

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Speaker 5: they had some. Issue they got a really nice stadium

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Speaker 5: actually in front of the. Program Dave kustan die, hard

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Speaker 5: Diehard Oakland, Raiders Uh Vegas raiders.

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Speaker 1: Fans, YEAH i, know, Man it's weird because sometimes when

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Speaker 1: people really love their, team they talk about their team

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Speaker 1: like the way new parents talk about a baby they just.

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Speaker 1: Had everything relates back to The, raiders.

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Speaker 5: Or they talk about their team like their friends new

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Speaker 5: baby that they just. Had who they right?

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Speaker 1: Team shout out to The.

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Speaker 4: Falcons he also shout out to Guy Yes comedy.

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Speaker 2: EXACTLY i love that he has a sketch that you

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Speaker 2: can find on. YouTube just type In Kyle mooney's.

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Speaker 4: Sports and he's got this jacket that just as sports

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Speaker 4: on the sleeves and he just has all these amorphous

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Speaker 4: comments about his sports and his, teams but like it's

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Speaker 4: impossible to tell what sport he's talking.

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Speaker 2: About and it is an absolute.

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Speaker 1: Delight AND i gotta tell, you the, folks as as

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Speaker 1: the boys AND i are, Saying Kyle mooney was such

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Speaker 1: a sleeper hit ON. SNL i wish he was still

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Speaker 1: in the, crew but He's he's doing great comedy even

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Speaker 1: after his tenure, there so do check him.

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Speaker 4: Out he also seems like a cool hang for he.

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Speaker 4: Does for, sure he's got some cool. FILMS y TWO

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Speaker 4: k wasn't, great but it was an interesting. SWING i

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00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,600
Speaker 4: do really enjoy his Film Brigsby bear if you're, interested

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Speaker 4: as Very Michelle gondry.

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Speaker 2: Esque and also he.

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Speaker 4: Is he has an album out Called the Real me

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Speaker 4: and it is absolutely ridiculous and hilarious and heartwarming at.

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Speaker 4: Times and he's actually on tour for that, now so

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Speaker 4: if he's coming to your, town do check him.

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Speaker 1: OUT i want to do a fantasy sketch comedy crew

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Speaker 1: just SO i can like think through. It you, know

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Speaker 1: if we Had Tim, Heidecker Bob, Odenkirk Kyle, Mooney Maria.

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Speaker 1: Bamford oh, Man, okay this is going to get. Weird

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Speaker 1: this is not related to what we're talking. About let's

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Speaker 1: go back To. Wink wink dreams up the idea of

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Speaker 1: fantasy football when he's chatting with another employee of The

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Speaker 1: raiders as well as a sports reporter From, oakland and

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Speaker 1: these guys aren't In oakland when they have this. Conversation

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Speaker 1: The raiders are on a road. Trip so these three

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Speaker 1: dudes are at A New York city hotel and they start,

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Speaker 1: thinking what if the same kind of fantasy INFRASTRUCTURE i

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Speaker 1: created for golf could be applied to. Football and this

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00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,480
Speaker 1: was a dream. Idea this was a real light bulb.

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Speaker 1: Moment and so they started putting together their team and their.

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Speaker 1: Approach and this is back In august of nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 1: Three they started with a heck of a, Name. Noel

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Speaker 1: they called themselves The Greater Oakland Professional Pig Skin Prognosticators

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Speaker 1: league or goop go.

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Speaker 4: People we're very pro. People that's. HILARIOUS i gotta say

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Speaker 4: it out loud To. Ben The Greater Oakland Professional Pig

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Speaker 4: Skin Prognosticators, league which was held At winckenbach's, home with

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Speaker 4: the very first pick Being George, blanda who played for The.

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Speaker 4: RAIDERS afl OR nfl players could be. Picked this, was

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Speaker 4: by the, way before the merger and three and a

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Speaker 4: half years before the very First Super, bowl and points

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Speaker 4: could be distributed awarded for touchdowns and field, goals so

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Speaker 4: a little bit simpler because NOW i believe you can

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Speaker 4: get point for any number of combinations and very gambling

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Speaker 4: style like, parlays, right things like, that where you, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that. Up what is a?

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Speaker 4: PARLAY i think Maybe max can help us with. THAT

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Speaker 4: i believe a parlay is it's a side.

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Speaker 5: BET a parlay is a combo. Bet so, basically so you're.

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Speaker 4: Betting on various circumstances happening in currently and.

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Speaker 2: CONCURRENTLY i think.

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Speaker 5: So for, example let's just say, there you could place

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Speaker 5: a parlay on this episode That max will say something

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00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,920
Speaker 5: about how Much Woodrow wilson, Sucks ben will say something

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00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,320
Speaker 5: that requires a bad joke.

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Speaker 6: Drum And noel will talk about.

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Speaker 5: Music you could do a parlay for, that and and

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00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,720
Speaker 5: the reward you'll get is much higher than if you

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Speaker 5: just do all those bets.

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Speaker 6: Singular it's got like a.

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Speaker 2: Multiplier, right all, three all three have to.

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Speaker 5: OCCUR i have heard one last, night for, like if

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Speaker 5: The falcons and The. Hawks if you put a parlay

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Speaker 5: on A falcons And, hawks And i'm not a, Gambler

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Speaker 5: i'm Not i'm not really into the. Stuff but if

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Speaker 5: you put One falcons and The hawks both winning the respective,

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Speaker 5: championships one hundred dollars would return two hundred and ELEVEN,

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Speaker 5: k but they would both have to win.

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Speaker 1: IT i, see, ooh people have lost a lot of.

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Speaker 1: Money all, Right, yeah we'll get to the gambling part.

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Speaker 1: TWO i think that's a big area of interest for

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Speaker 1: all of. Us let's stay in the nineteen sixties, Now

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Speaker 1: so like as we're, saying nineteen sixty, Three wink puts

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Speaker 1: together An ocean's eleven style team and they meet at

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Speaker 1: his house to Form go Bol and if we fast

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Speaker 1: forward just a little bit still in the nineteen, sixties

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Speaker 1: a public fantasy league gets. Established this is also In.

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Speaker 1: Oakland it's at a. Bar people, are you, know imbibing their.

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00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 1: Vibing they're hanging out and they decide to make a

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Speaker 1: few gentlemanly.

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Speaker 2: Wagers, YES i love a good gentlemanly.

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Speaker 1: Wager, Right and now we travel From, Glint, california out

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00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,679
Speaker 1: To massachusetts To. Cambridge this is where we see a

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00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,639
Speaker 1: pretty big baseball fan Named WILLIAM. A. Gamson he happens

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Speaker 1: to also be the Eighty he goes on to become

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Speaker 1: the eighty fifth president of The American Sociological.

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Speaker 4: Association Great john related to fantasy, sports, right, right Job

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Speaker 4: willie a sociological based.

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Speaker 1: Organization great, job Will, yeah, yeah great job. Man but

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Speaker 1: we're we're proud of, you we support, you but we're

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Speaker 1: not concerned with your academic bona. Fides we're talking about

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00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 1: you as a baseball. Fan.

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Speaker 4: Now, yeah but he would have been the first one

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00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,679
Speaker 4: to talk about himself that way. Too gamson was a

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00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,840
Speaker 4: huge name in the field of, sociology being the aforementioned

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00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,840
Speaker 4: president of THE asa and winning many produced, awards such

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00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 4: as The Distinguished contributions To Teaching, award the W Eb

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00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,879
Speaker 4: Deboe's career Of Distinguished Scholarship, up THE Asa Lifetime Career Achievement,

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00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,679
Speaker 4: award and the McCarthy Lifetime Achievement award from The center

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Speaker 4: for The study Of Social Movements.

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Speaker 1: Letters, indeed, yes and.

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00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,959
Speaker 2: We, could we could rattle out some more.

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00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 4: Acronyms will spare you That Bill ganson was one of

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Speaker 4: the most influential social scientists in the. World according to

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Speaker 4: sociology professor and Chair Andrew. Jorgensen he was a great

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Speaker 4: mentor for graduate and undergraduate students as well as for junior,

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00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,200
Speaker 4: faculty and his lifetime commit to social justice was, inspiring Said.

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Speaker 4: Jorgensen just wanted to get all that stuff out of

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Speaker 4: the way before we jump into the kind OF i

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00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,359
Speaker 4: don't know his side hustle as a sports.

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Speaker 1: Fan yeah, yeah so, again great, Job. Willie we don't

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Speaker 1: want to dismiss your amazing efforts and service to the

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Speaker 1: field of sociology, overall but for this, conversation you're a baseball.

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Speaker 1: Guy so he is super enthusiastic to, students to, colleagues

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Speaker 1: to friends and family alike about. Baseball and you can

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00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 1: read this great discussion about this from a guy Named Richard.

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Speaker 1: Sandomir he is sadly he is writing this as part

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Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty one obituary Of Professor, gamson which

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Speaker 1: was published in The New York.

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Speaker 4: Times well it just goes to, show, though how recent

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Speaker 4: a development this whole you know world. Is you only

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00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 4: just you, know very recently passed. Away this is What

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00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 4: sandomir had to. Say Professor gamson indulged his enthusiasm for

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00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 4: baseball and his attachment to games by creating what he

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00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,400
Speaker 4: called The National Baseball, seminar a simulated game in which

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00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 4: each person in his group originally, three had a budget

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00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,400
Speaker 4: to draft major leaguers for a. Team the players were

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00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 4: measured throughout the season based on batting, average runs batten,

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00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 4: in earned run, average and.

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Speaker 2: Wins, yeah and.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be very familiar to any of

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00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 1: us who play fantasy football or fantasy, baseball any kind

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00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: of fantasy league. Sport Professor gamson was speaking TO espn

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00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,159
Speaker 1: about this in twenty ten and he, said we felt

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00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: these statistics that you just MENTIONED nol reflected. Productivity but in,

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00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,679
Speaker 1: Truth i'm gonna paraphrase him, here the hard reality was

347
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: there wasn't a deep bench of statistics at the, time

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00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 1: nowhere near like the level we're at. Now so when

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00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: he Moves gamson to The university Of michigan in nineteen sixty, two,

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00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 1: Fine i'll say it go. Blue he recruits about twenty

351
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: five people to play his reindeer, games and some of

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00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 1: these guys that join up are themselves also. Academics i'm

353
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 1: thinking of folks Like Robert, skar who's a history. Professor

354
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: scar mentions it to one of his, students a guy

355
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 1: Named Daniel, oakrint and a decade, later inspired by this,

356
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 1: discourse Mister oakrant goes on to invent the Rotisserie League.

357
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: Baseball it's a more, complex more sophisticated system.

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00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 6: And jumping real. Quick, YES i am wearing A michigan

359
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,120
Speaker 6: shirt right, NOW.

360
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 2: I Go Go Go.

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00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 6: Blue there's? Valiant What max?

362
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 7: Sent?

363
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 1: Yeah that also reminds. ME i love. THIS i thought

364
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 1: it was a stereotype from comedy and sitcoms and, Films

365
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:34,919
Speaker 1: but the last three Times i've been In, PHILADELPHIA i swear, you,

366
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: Guys i've heard someone casually just say go, birds like

367
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 1: in line at a gas station or. SOMETHING i love

368
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 1: this kind of. STUFF i love the. NOMENCLATURE i love

369
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:52,919
Speaker 1: the team spirit and the way these pursuits bring people.

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00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 1: Together Mister oakrant feels the same. Way he. Says, look

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00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 1: this idea of a Rotisseriy baseball league or Rotissary league,

372
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: baseball it came about because of all the precedent created

373
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 1: dozens of years earlier By Professor Bill gampson and By

374
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: Professor Bob. Sklar and now we would CONSIDER rlb or

375
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: Rotisary League baseball the closest ancestor to the multi billion

376
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: dollar fantasy sports industry.

377
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 4: Today for, sure what is rotisserie they're talking about, here?

378
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 4: Guys there's a quote from The New York times piece

379
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 4: Where oakrint, wrote what would would something like rotisseriy have

380
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 4: been possible, otherwise.

381
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 5: So rotisseriy is and then this in this matter not

382
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 5: like you, know a spinning take with apple in his.

383
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 5: Mouth common refers to one of the more common styles

384
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 5: of fantasy. Baseball so in, football the most common styles

385
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 5: points were basically a touchdowns WORTH, x your defense getting

386
00:22:58,600 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 5: sack is worth why?

387
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 6: Xyz you?

388
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 5: Know well in ret, hisstory how it is is it's

389
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 5: like you have to build a complete. Team so it's

390
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 5: like how many stolen bases do you? Have how many

391
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 5: home runs do you? Have and there' and so you

392
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 5: have to look in the number of categories so you're

393
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 5: motivated that way and how it works sometimes so sometimes

394
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 5: you use these things called week in category, leagues daily category,

395
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 5: leagues which is like new score every, year or true

396
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 5: rotistory is like for the entire. Season so you have

397
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 5: to make sure to fix your. Team if a team's

398
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 5: bad in the, category you will lose that category on the.

399
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 4: SEASON i, See so not not nothing chicken, related, okay

400
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 4: check making.

401
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 6: Sure no no suckling, pick.

402
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: Which is a shame because you could you can always

403
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: tell when we start asking each other these questions that

404
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: we're recording right before lunchtime.

405
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 4: So early days, though, guys, right it was pretty niche

406
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 4: and not particularly, lucrative right.

407
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: Exactly it's more a matter of personal. Interest, rotisseri As max,

408
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 1: said is engaging to fans because it incorporates so many other, variables,

409
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 1: right so many other categories and stats and things to

410
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: include within your. Calculations do check out a great interview

411
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: Between oakrint And Nick fletcher For The Hardball. Times you

412
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: can find that on a website Called. Fangraphs, but like you're, Saying,

413
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: noel at this, point we have a few people who are,

414
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: very very into this and while they don't have deep

415
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: pockets as an industry, yet they do have big dreams

416
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: our real like a real inflection point occurs in the nineteen.

417
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 1: Nineties this is when you get a platform that begins

418
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: to resemble modern day fantasy. Football side note at bears

419
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: repeating like The White stripes said once upon a, time

420
00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: fantasy football is by far in The, west the biggest

421
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: form of fantasy. Gaming.

422
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 4: ABSOLUTELY i mean WHEN i that's WHAT i always associated

423
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,479
Speaker 4: with people when they talk about fantasy they usually are

424
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 4: saying fantasy football like that's sort of the like bread

425
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 4: and butter of the, industry at least for a normy like.

426
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 4: Me that's WHAT i was always aware. OF i don't

427
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 4: really hear people talk about fantasy. BASEBALL i know it,

428
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 4: exists but to, me it's like The Coca cola of

429
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 4: fantasy sports is fantasy.

430
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: Football, yeah you, Know max AND i have been have

431
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: been pretty active in early conversations about fantasy.

432
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 4: Curling surely it, exists no. PROBLEM i use a, Question,

433
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 4: max are there certain sports that are not conducive to?

434
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: Fantasy?

435
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: Oh you.

436
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 5: Could you could do it because if it's if they're,

437
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 5: statistics you could do. Fantasy got it, Right that's what it.

438
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 5: Is and that's Why ben mad a brilliant point when

439
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 5: he was talking ABOUT reti history where it's like this

440
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 5: is like for fans. Stuff that's why it was kind

441
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 5: of the early. Days it was So niche, was it's,

442
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 5: like you have to really labor on the. Point your,

443
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 5: website this WEBSITE i linked. FANGRAFTS i have a subscription

444
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 5: with them because that's What i'm.

445
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 6: LIKE i like my, stats that's WHAT i.

446
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 4: Love but if you were to, say not like hardcore like,

447
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 4: that there are versions of fantasy sports that just involved

448
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 4: like assembling a fantasy team and then you don't really

449
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 4: have to dig down or drill down into the.

450
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 5: Stats and as time he was on there is actual

451
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 5: where we're progressing the. Story it's gotten the barrier of

452
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 5: entry has gotten much, much much, lower where.

453
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 6: You don't have to.

454
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 5: Spook my Friend, ronnie he's a HUGE nfl. Fan, now

455
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 5: he's a big football, fan but like ten years, ago

456
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 5: our league actually dates back to when we all worked

457
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 5: together in a bar together and we all were talking

458
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 5: sports that he didn't really watch sports at the, time

459
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 5: so he just started playing fantasy with. Us and he

460
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 5: loves THE nfl now he was all this stuff, now

461
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 5: but at the time he had to use these tools

462
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 5: a lot because he's like but it made it so

463
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 5: he could play with.

464
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 4: Us, well it's sort of like the way if you're

465
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 4: Playing Boulder's, gate for, example versus PLAYING d AND, d

466
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 4: a lot of those calculations and things are done for,

467
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 4: you right.

468
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: Exactly it just shows the dice. Roll but this is

469
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: a really important point because back in the, sixties when

470
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 1: we're talking About wink and we're talking about doctor g,

471
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: earlier they DIDN'T i love the point your making. Mix

472
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: they didn't have the privilege of The internet or going

473
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: to just some convenient website that will lay out all

474
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: the stats in the most helpful. Way, instead they were

475
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: digging into you, know printed, records, right they are studying

476
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 1: batting averages and stuff on the back of the trading.

477
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: Cards so you really had to put.

478
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 5: The work in, right and, like you, know just a little.

479
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 5: Bit this is concurrent going on at the same. Time

480
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 5: but you have stuff like in the, eighties the rises like,

481
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 5: sabermetrics where you have like people who are working on

482
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 5: advanced better statistics and stuff like. That because at this

483
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 5: point in, time like you got to, remember like a

484
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 5: lot of this stuff is you pick up the newspaper

485
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 5: and you manually tabulated at these, scores and then you,

486
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 5: know you get an argument with your friends because they're

487
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 5: tabulating it. Wrong you're, saying but they're saying you're. Wrong

488
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 5: like this is like all kind of happening. Concurrently and

489
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 5: then also remember these people were making a good bit

490
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 5: of money, professionally but they ain't making the money they make, now,

491
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 5: right these sports were gav.

492
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 6: Coming this is all happened at the same, time.

493
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: And, yes it's happening. Concurrently it's also encouraging certain personality

494
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: TRAITS i can already picture someone saying you're tabulating this,

495
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: wrong and then some other guy in the back, GOING

496
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: i have a.

497
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 5: System, YEAH i have a system for. Sure your math is. Wrong,

498
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 5: no you don't know, math, right you.

499
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: Don't get my, system don't, fine, whatever, Whatever, Yes i'll

500
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: have another bud.

501
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 4: Light buds for, you bud, this buds for, this buds for,

502
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 4: you you math.

503
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: Heretic, OH i thought you were gonna say this buds for, You.

504
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: Bookeroo that was a real missed. Opportunity that's good.

505
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: Though you got. It you got. It it's a team.

506
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 5: Effort he can paf Blue, Ribbon Stay.

507
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: Blue Ull go blue and award winning. Beer as as

508
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: we often have described, it it's not Like, Miller it's

509
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: not Like Miller, lite which is of course famously the

510
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 1: beer is so good you can drink it with your.

511
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: MOUTH i can't believe we got away with, That. Admiral

512
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: if you, wish if you, wish so bad boofing jokes.

513
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: Aside we're going to move. On we are going To

514
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: we're going to get to, again this, fulcrum this real

515
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: pivotal moment in the nineteen. Nineties this is where we

516
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: see the emergence of a platform that can support modern

517
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: day fantasy. Football if you want to learn a lot about,

518
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: this check out the Author Larry. Scheckter he has a

519
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: book that came out quite, recently just last, Year The

520
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: history Of Fantasy, sports and we're going to lean into

521
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: some of his some of his work. Here in a,

522
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: SECOND i guess we should tell you the full title

523
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: Is The history Of Fantasy sports colon Than saleofcommissioner Dot.

524
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 4: Com, indeed and this is not a company THAT i

525
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 4: was familiar with at, all so this is all new

526
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 4: to me as well as you can probably. Guess this

527
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 4: first kind of name in fantasy sports started small and

528
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 4: actually helped lay the groundwork for the industry that we know.

529
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 4: Today Peter, Pizaris Michael, Gersh James, price And Scott harder

530
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 4: were frat brothers who had graduated From Carnegie, mellon which

531
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 4: IS i think a pretty prestigious, university and then later

532
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 4: all moved To manhattan to The Big apple and got.

533
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 4: Jobs one, night they were talking through things at their

534
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 4: local chicken wing joint nineteen ninety five about what they

535
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 4: would do if they were, mega mega, rich Like Bill gates.

536
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: Rich, yeah, yeah, Yeah and this is back during The

537
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: alcyon days Of microsoft being the first and final word

538
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: in public. Computers So Bill gates is kind of like

539
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: The Alon musk at this. Point he's the richest dude

540
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: they can think. Of and they, said you know, what

541
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: we're sitting, around we're eating some great chicken, wings we're

542
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: having some, drinks and we're just. Talking why are we?

543
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: Talking we can do. This we can make this happen

544
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: right now and hold the, phone. Folks we're gonna make an.

545
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: Audible AM i doing that? Right? Audible is?

546
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 4: That is?

547
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: That is that a sports?

548
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 6: Rap it is is well? Audible audible can mean many.

549
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 6: Things but he's using.

550
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 5: Football it's when often it's when at the line of

551
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 5: scrimras the, quarterback we'll look at what the defense is lined.

552
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 5: Up he'll be, like he'd be, like, omaha. Omaha that's

553
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 5: the old page thirty, two pouring out things like.

554
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: That so we are using the phrase. Correctly we are

555
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: calling an. Audible this is very much going to be

556
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: a two part. Series thanks as always to our super

557
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: producer and research associate for this, series Mister Max. Williams

558
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: thanks To Alex williams who composed this bang in.

559
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 4: Track indeed huge thanks To Christopher hasiotis And, Eves Jeff,

560
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 4: Coats here In, Spirit Jonathan, Strickland the, quister A. J, Bahama,

561
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 4: Jacobs The.

562
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: Buzzler Hut Hot.

563
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: Hut who's the next, Time.

564
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 7: Folks for more podcasts From, iHeartRadio visit The iHeartRadio, App Apple,

565
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 7: podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite.

566
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 2: Shows