WEBVTT - Interview: Conversate, with Killer Mike, Chapter One: Conspiracies and Consequence 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.320 Folks, fellow conspiracy realists. Before we get started today, we 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.760 thought it important to let you know this is an 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:09.119 explicit series. 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:12.400 A little bit, a. 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.880 Little bit, a lot of bit, you know what I mean. Tomato, Tomato. 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.040 We are very much against censorship. We try to keep 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.400 things pg. Thirteen, But for this, Matt, we had to 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:23.119 make an acception. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.040 Yes, just be aware who you're listening to. It around 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:28.800 and if you're feeling a bit weak of the stomach. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:30.360 If not, then carry. 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:35.680 Forth from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.400 is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:42.320 or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:50.320 A production of iHeart Radio. 0:00:57.640 --> 0:00:59.920 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.960 Our colleague Noel is on adventures, but will be returning shortly. 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:05.480 They call me Ben. 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.480 We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan the 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.760 Tennessee pal Facin, as well as our guest superproducer Ramsey 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:18.600 Ram jams Yunt. Ramsey's in the house. Now, look, folks, 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.320 we have something extraordinary for you this evening. It's a 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.160 thank you for everyone who waited for us to return 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:28.240 from the High Seas. True story okay, oh better yet 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.679 went along with us. So tonight we're having a wide 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:37.000 ranging conversation exploring everything from Tuskegee to the Thirteenth Amendment, WikiLeaks, 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.400 hip hop programming, so much more. Get this, folks, We're 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.399 not doing it alone. I can't believe this is a 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:47.360 true story. Matt. We are joined live and direct in 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:51.960 person with the activists, the musician, the legendary MC and 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:56.640 creator of the hit new podcast Conversation with Killer Mike Michael. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:58.960 I do here. How you doing? 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.640 Man's insane that you're sitting right next to us in 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:03.480 real life. 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:05.920 I'm happy to be here, and you guys know, my god, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.679 Man Ramsey gets me. We do Hey, man, I think 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:10.560 we should do this. We mob out to do. 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.480 But we've been sitting back admiring your work for I 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:15.920 can't even tell you how many years. Man, thank you 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:21.280 and and just everything you do, your solo work, RTJ, 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:25.440 your your the work you've done in the sphere especially. Look, 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.760 we were feeling I don't want to speak for everybody, 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:29.960 but some of us were feeling the burn very hard 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:30.440 at a time. 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.160 That's my guy, Jeseuz, my god. 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:36.520 So just you know, going back and just watching your 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:40.200 work for a long time. Yeah, I was going to 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.280 take it back to Georgia State really quickly shore mine, 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.880 of course. Okay, So when my friends and I graduated 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.000 the film program there at Georgia State, which was, in 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.200 our opinion, one of the best film programs out there, 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:53.840 we loved it. We learned so much. We started a 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.520 small production company and one of the first things we 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:00.320 shot was this little cooking show that was, you know, 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.359 we're shooting a pilot for it, trying to get it off, 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.440 and it was gonna be in Atlanta based cooking show. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.600 And the first person that we shot on that show 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.000 is this guy who went by Kujo, and we were like, 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:15.079 but at the time, for me, I have no idea 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:16.959 who this person is. I think he's just going by 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:19.520 a cool name from a scary movie that maybe dogs 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:22.200 I didn't know who he was. You know, I'm a 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:24.560 small town Georgia kid out in the suburbs. 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:26.320 Him up like. 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:32.160 This around we are, we're getting ready for camera, we're 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.359 lighting in, we're just doing all this stuff. And then 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.200 because of that though, I learned what Goodie Mob was, 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.320 and because of that, I learned about everything that happened 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.160 in Rico's basement. I learned about all of y'all and 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.720 and all of that, and I just wonder what your 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.560 maybe most positive takeaway is from working in a collective 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:51.920 like that when you're starting out when and I call 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.240 it a collector just because it seems like there's a 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.760 lot of effort that goes in from everybody, for every 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:57.640 you know, for everyone. 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.400 I was Big Boys, punk ass friend, you know what 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.280 I mean? You know, between he had more house than 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.120 Homecoming was just past a few days to go spell 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.160 House spelled with the more House. I met the sea 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.720 Low Reddick, not Seelo from Goodie Mob, but the se 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.280 Low Reddick who was best friends with Big Boys from 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.880 the time they had been in you know, elementary school, 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.720 and we ran with his brother James. That's how I 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.120 met Big Boy. So I felt this lucky to be 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.200 around these guys as anybody in the world. The first 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.200 person that put his arms around me, how they've done 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.400 your family? Se Low Goodie he was a member of 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.960 Goodie Mob also, So I just felt honored to be 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.160 in the league. So whenever asked to do something fun 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:35.640 it I wouldn't even help care in the bag that's 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:37.360 water shot wrap, you know what. I mean I was. 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.240 I just felt happy. And Kujo went to my rival 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:42.760 high school and I went to He was older than 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:44.280 me when I went to Frederick Douglas High School. He 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.080 went to bend Rony Mags. And I'm a strong believer 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:48.760 that you're as good as your rival. So you need 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.080 a good rival high school to be your rival because 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.760 it makes you want to be better at academics, arts programs, 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.000 sports and everything else. So I believe there's a great 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.320 symbiotic relationship between two schools. But I just love those 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.000 guys man for after me, and I felt blessed to 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.520 be a part of collective because I had literally grown 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.240 up a fan, you know, while they were developing and growing. 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:08.480 I was the one of those day one thing. And 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.520 so I feel very honored to be a part of 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.160 the Dunja Man. That's amazing, And. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.599 You've also been kind of creating your own collectives over time. 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.520 You're a great You're a great connector with people, and 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.360 that's where Okay, so we've got a couple of spoilers 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:26.960 for you and this conversation as we conversate, one of 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:31.560 your newest projects is of course, conversation Killer Mike. Typically 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.080 we begin with a little more background about our guests, 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:35.839 and not to be too atlantic about it, but I 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:37.920 kind of assume everybody already knows. 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:41.480 So working at it. 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:46.200 Yeah, with success. So maybe start by telling us a 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.600 little bit about the providence of the origin story of 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.000 your newest project of conversation, Like how did you guys 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:54.039 start brainstorming? 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:58.320 I met this guy named Ramsey. He aggravated the shit 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.240 out of me about how my voice was needed in 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:05.400 the podcast world and how valuable it could be because he, 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.200 like you, described me as a connector. He's like, you know, 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.679 you're here in Atlanta, man, and you know so many 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.440 people and now the casual like come to my party 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:15.800 kind of know, but like literally jinguly connected to people. 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.920 You know, we could we could really use you. And 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.760 I'm just like, I don't know what the fuck are 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:26.280 you talking about. It's this weird, cool looking white guys 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.160 telling me you could do it, and I'm just like, man, 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.240 I don't what is it. I don't even understand podcasts. 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:32.560 And I see other people start to do it, to 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.400 start to take off. I know, I like listening to Joe. 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.920 I like listening to Joe Rogan, and you know, Joe 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.800 Budden's I like that, But I didn't think people really 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:41.800 cared to hear about me on a regular basis or 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.080 from me on a regular basis. I just knew when 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.000 I had a chance to talk, at least try to 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.240 leave people in the room more connected than not. You 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.800 know what I'm saying, Or I said on Shannon Sharp's 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.680 podcast recently, like listen and converse with one another, right, 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.960 or conversate with one another to understand the other perspective. 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.280 But understanding doesn't necessarily mean agreement. It just means I 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.640 understand now, I understand I may not have understood before. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.560 So I grew with Ramsey kind of peeking it on 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.559 me a few times a year, a relationship with Ramsey 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.200 and which prowning into a friendship because he could see 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.560 further down the road and me, and he understood that 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.280 as much as we benefit from having you as a rapper, 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.960 you know, much as you benefit from having you care 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:23.440 about politics on a level hyper locally business, that we'd 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:25.480 really benefit if you got a chance to talk to 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.880 a bigger world. And I finally just broke town and 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.720 said fuck it all right, and let's do it. And 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:33.640 Ramsey's like, I'll do the hard part. I'll go get 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.760 the equipment. I'll make sure we can we can have, 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.560 you know, decent lunch at each one of them. But 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.920 let's start conversing with people. Let's conversate. And I'm glad 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.520 that I trusted my instincts because a lot of times 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:45.560 you may have a skill and you may not. It's 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:47.320 just it's just you, so you don't think of it 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.840 as a skill. Just I have the ability to talk. 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:51.800 I sit down on the plane. I still do the talks. 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.080 In third grade. Third grade, we took got on the 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.480 plane and told Eastern Company called Eastern before Delta was 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.640 the biggest in the world. It was like you sat 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:02.920 down and they taught you sit down and introduce yourself 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.400 to the person next to you. They and at that time, 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:07.160 I argue with people about this all the time. You 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.800 they tell you to put your bags opposite you so 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.760 you can see your bags. Okay, So I still do 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:14.480 that because I'm old and when people try to say, 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:16.240 stop fucking with my bags, so I need to see 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.920 my shit. But I'll introduced myself and that's how I've 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.240 met everyone, from people like Laura, Lenny. You know what 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:23.960 I'm saying, I'm just like, oh, you play on the bitch, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:25.640 see my wife fucking loves you, and then I end 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:27.840 up playing with her best friend. I want to show 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.920 now the lowdown, you know what I mean. Ramsey was 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:32.840 one of those people I'm glad to introduced yourself to me, 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.880 and I got introduced on it because he saw something 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:37.760 in and around me that I couldn't see. Not that 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:39.720 I ain't believe it, I just didn't see it. And 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.520 my brother put it together and we're I think we're 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:44.720 some in the teams now in terms of episodes, but 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.120 I'm new. I like it because I'm genuinely curious. I 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.760 don't know what the fuck I'm doing, and I'm willing 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.280 to be coached. And I think that's my greatest asset. 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.800 You know, talking it because she really Charlemagne, the God. 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.400 The Same gave me the quote I will live with 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:04.840 wherever black. If you have a problem in society, you 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.800 can't just shit a ride a complaint because the retort 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:11.360 from anybody it's the most villainous ship I've heard. So 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.320 what the fuck are you gonna do about it? If 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.120 you don't like what the fuck I'm doing, What the 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:16.840 fucker you wanna do about it. It means I have 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:20.840 to work hard, get stronger, develop an alternative, and climb 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.240 the mountain, or the fuck you're gonna shut the fuck 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.560 up like a mother. And I'm just sitting there talking. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.600 I'm just like, this is dope, Like this is this 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.360 is getting one of the greatest mayors this city's ever 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.560 had to tell how it really is. He says, how 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.680 many deals have really just been homeboys sitting around talking. 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.760 We got a coupletra billion to build a port in 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.719 Savannah because of his relationship, but with Barack Obama, Like, 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:48.439 if the funk you talking about we worried about these ports? 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.720 What about these ports? These ports directly affect working class 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.679 men in Georgia. That matters to me from you know. So, 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.079 I just thought that that was fucking incredible getting a 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:59.680 chance to talk to Charlemagne in a room like we 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.040 talked his friends oftentimes on the phone. And that is 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.920 amazing because I've seen his career progress from South Carolina 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.040 to taking over the biggest, you know, biggest artment space 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:09.839 in New York. So I love it. I get to 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.200 converse with my friends and people I may not know. 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.840 I get to understand different perspective, even if I don't 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.160 agree with I get to understand it. So it's something 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:18.560 I think I'm gonna do for a while. 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.040 You know, people, well, we can't wait to hear more. 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:25.200 We listened to the Casini Read episode specifically for one reason. 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.000 I don't know if Ramsey ever told you a story 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.079 about this. I don't know if you were there, Ramsey, No, 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:33.120 you were not there. We've worked at this company since six. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:36.160 We can't get real jobs. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:40.560 Yeah, so but you know, we were interns when we 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.240 started out, and you know we're now executive producers and 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.360 doing all this thing. But we've watched the company that 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.760 I heard podcasts now Owns changed so much. And one time, 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.079 a long time ago, we were at south By Southwest 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:58.080 and at that time a video writer, video producer. I know, 0:10:58.120 --> 0:10:59.439 I think I was an editor and I wasn't even 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.480 invited along. So I was back here in Atlanta. But 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:04.640 everybody's at south By Southwest. They were given an opportunity 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:07.440 because it was a special Atlanta gathering at south By Yeah, 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:12.600 to either interview Kasim Read or you and the management 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.800 shows Casim Read and everybody on production team was like, 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:16.800 you know, it was. 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.079 We were like the little kids who get pissed when 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:22.360 drives the cars. 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:27.400 Yeah, so they could have interviewed us together, right, I 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.840 had campaign for Cassine and they had been here about 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:30.320 a long time. 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.839 I think it was schedules or whatever didn't work out. 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:34.520 It was just, you know, we were lower. 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:38.400 Yeah, I bet we would have been. 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.200 It's one of those things we were trying. And I'm 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.800 sure the statute has passed so we can talk about 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.920 this story. But it's one of those things where you 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.000 probably find yourself explaining this to people who aren't from 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.040 Atlanta as well. What would I like to say to 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.480 anybody coming from out of town or out of the country, 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.720 is you have to understand about this city. The moment 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.600 you land in the airport, everybody here is gonna talk 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.400 to you as though you're vaguely related. 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:08.720 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I watched some woman this 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:10.920 morning complain about how fucked up at what she had 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:12.960 moved from Houston to Atlanta, how rude and people weren't 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.040 in I was like, yeah, she loves in suburbs. I 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.680 was like, that's bitch outside twenty five because what's crazy 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.000 about Atlanta. Everybody does treat you like you vaguary related 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.720 or like they know you or know some one that does. 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.679 And I love this city because even if someone sucks 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.360 up and cuts you off, they rolled out and one, 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.679 hey man, my band. Man, I'm late man, trying to 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.320 get up to the Miss Jane Mount. Sorry, you get 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.400 on a genuine my band. So there's a there's still 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:43.719 a Southern hospitality in in even our rudeness, you know 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:44.040 what I mean. 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.679 But I feel like that might be a specific situation 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:48.360 for you and they realize who you are there. 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:53.600 Oh I've seen I've seen them ast all the playoffs too. Man. 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.199 You know I love this city, man, I love it 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:01.199 still subject we still, in my opinion, our small town 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:02.520 operating as a big city. 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.520 Okay, yes, sir, you know, okay, I want to talk 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.280 about this. So myself and a few other people got 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:12.080 the opportunity in twenty seventeen to make a show called 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.720 Atlanta Monster. Yes, and it was all about Wayne Williams 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.079 talked to the cities. You did you talked really well? 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.000 I did an interview with so we were while an hour. 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.960 Yeah, no joke, okay, because we worked directly with paying 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.120 to make the shows for the US. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:26.880 Just talked about it. 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.679 Oh that's okay. So well, I don't want to take 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.600 anyway from anything away from that interview, but I just 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:34.160 wonder if you could just tell us because you were 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.240 like what a child as a kid. 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:41.680 Yeah, when it was late seventies, early eighties, Atlanta has 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.600 always been a city with lots of black people. In 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:49.400 the seventies, with white flight happening, Atlanta became a predominantly 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:54.040 black city. And under the reign of Atlanta's first black mayor, 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.680 who was Maynard Jackson on the second term, a proliferation 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.160 of murders in particularly with children from the inner city, 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.400 and there's a proliferation of anxiety and fear and what 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.480 was happening. I had friends whose mothers moved them up 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.200 to Connecticut. Hat a cousin who ended up moving with 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.880 his great grandmother out in Los Angeles. We were stayed. 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.360 But the culture of childhom and this is the last 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.320 key kids time. This is when moms had got out 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.480 and started working, and oftentimes you would be letting yourself 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:26.840 in and out. Kids weren't really looked after. Jen Nexters 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:28.880 talk about an exciting way, and Lord knows the exciting 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.040 but we'd go outside. Parents would know where we were for hours, 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:37.920 and these little black boys start disappearing, and no one 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.360 could answer why, who what happened? No one could answer 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.520 if it was the clan it was, if it was 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:48.240 government doing experiments on children, No one knew what happened. 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.440 A guy named Wane Williams, who was from my side 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:51.560 of the town, from the west side of Atlanta and 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:53.360 actually went to the same high school Frederic lenhol was 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:59.960 high school, ended up being convicted of killing two adults. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.080 Some people argue the murders never stopped. Some people argue 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.440 they did with the lock up of him. Some people say, well, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.440 the black prostitutes start being killed. No one said or 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.480 did any think about that. But it was very scared 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:12.440 and time. And the weird thing about the time, though, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.120 is what kind of liberated us kids who had grown 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.480 up in this air fear and be home by the 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.280 time the lights come up and light night lights come 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.400 on and only moving packs of like four or five 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.840 six boys together. So I see the water boys, It 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:25.520 reminds me of that time. Now you see the boys 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.000 on the corner. We had to at that time moving 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:29.960 units like that because you didn't want to be caught 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.560 by yourself, even out to the point. One of my 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.200 I tell this when I talked to paint on Our 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.160 on the conversation podcasts of Mind. There was a time 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:42.520 where me and my cousin were walking from school together 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.960 and a funeral home hers stops, and two guys get 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.600 out dressed like Lamont Sandford from Sandford and the Sun. Yeah, 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.160 you know, and with the glass and the afroll and 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.400 beckons us to come, you know, as though they're lost 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:58.680 or something. What And man, we wait half a second, 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.040 we start screaming, running out and answers up the road 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.920 just because I'm like, we knew most of the funeral 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.640 homes along the Martha King Here corridor. My grandmother had 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.120 worked for Dawson Funeral. I'm just like, nah, I what 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:11.440 the fuck, get the fuck out out and trusted and 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.120 those guys scooted on the fuck out of there. So 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.000 I don't know what that was or wasn't, but I 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.480 know that the times made you, as a child more alert, 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.800 kept your head on the swivel. And what liberated it, 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:25.400 weirdly enough, was the plague of the In my opinion, 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:29.440 reagular administration backed cocaine proliferation and crack era. With the 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:36.320 crack era freed us as keyids up because when the 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.880 proliferational crack hit inner cities and it stopped being cocaine 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.800 and freebasing, something that was done added after discos and stuff, 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:44.680 and started to hit front streets at the car washings 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.360 and the housing projects. There was just people in the 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.400 streets then, and even though it was wilder and weirder 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.360 because of drugs, it felt safer Woa, because people were 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.640 out now. Even during the Atlanta child murders, you'd have 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.960 adults stand out on driveways and in their front yard 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.400 make sure you got home. But the crack era Man 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:04.480 and the Martyr Train when they finally opened up, gave 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.920 us a train. We were fucking free, man. We were 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.399 just it was it was just packs of kids that 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.480 would be jumping on trains going downtown came in for 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.840 fucking hours. But there was a real freedom in it. 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.920 And even that brought us all sets of monsters into minds. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.120 But you know, I brought a certain demise of the community. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.760 But the monster and the fear of the Atlanta mission 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.159 and murder kind of dissipated with the lock up of 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.600 Wane and with the freedom that interestingly enough, the drug 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.320 air brought on Wow. 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.919 Man, and we'll pause here for a word from our sponsors. 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:37.240 But don't you worry. 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:45.960 We'll be right back, and we're back with Killer Mike. 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.119 You know, it's it's no secret that we're tremendous fans 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:51.800 of your work. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:52.400 Thank you. 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.280 In music, I would say, more importantly, one thing that 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.840 comes along earlyast personally as a as a fan of 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:03.639 the city, imperfect as it may be, one of the 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.520 most powerful things we've seen you do throughout your career 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:11.760 is community, is activism and positive change. And when we 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.000 you know, look, if you're a fan of hip hop, folks, 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.480 it's very easy, especially people who don't know much about 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.119 hip hop, it's very easy for them to dismiss the 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:26.800 work or to dismiss what is being explored. And one 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:31.080 of the things that continually is a thread through your collaborations, 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.920 through your solo work, through your team ups, is always 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:39.800 this message of telling the truth of economic uplift, of 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.760 the things your history textbooks might not have told us 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.000 if we were growing up. So I'm setting up some 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.320 stuff here. I'm sorry Matt if I'm going a little long. 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.320 I'm trying not to fanboy. But one thing when we 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.240 were all brainstorming our conversation today one thing that immediately 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.680 stood out as we said, well, Michael, what do you 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.200 want to talk about? Won't get to hang out? And 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:06.919 the top thing on the list, you said, the thirteenth Amendment. Yes, yeah, okay, 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.560 So I'm just gonna I'm gonna read the clip of 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.679 the thirteenth Amendment. Yes, I'm not gonna do a voice. 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.800 I really want to, but this is serious. So the 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:21.159 thirteenth Amendment says, neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.320 a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.520 duly convicted, shall exist within the United States deep breath, 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.520 or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Congress shall have 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.160 the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.400 Yeah, all right, slavery is very much alive A well, 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:40.480