Speaker 1: Folks, fellow conspiracy realists. Before we get started today, we
Speaker 1: thought it important to let you know this is an
Speaker 1: explicit series.
Speaker 2: A little bit, a.
Speaker 1: Little bit, a lot of bit, you know what I mean. Tomato, Tomato.
Speaker 1: We are very much against censorship. We try to keep
Speaker 1: things pg. Thirteen, But for this, Matt, we had to
Speaker 1: make an acception.
Speaker 3: Yes, just be aware who you're listening to. It around
Speaker 3: and if you're feeling a bit weak of the stomach.
Speaker 3: If not, then carry.
Speaker 4: Forth from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History
Speaker 4: is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now
Speaker 4: or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 4: A production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Speaker 3: Our colleague Noel is on adventures, but will be returning shortly.
Speaker 2: They call me Ben.
Speaker 1: We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan the
Speaker 1: Tennessee pal Facin, as well as our guest superproducer Ramsey
Speaker 1: Ram jams Yunt. Ramsey's in the house. Now, look, folks,
Speaker 1: we have something extraordinary for you this evening. It's a
Speaker 1: thank you for everyone who waited for us to return
Speaker 1: from the High Seas. True story okay, oh better yet
Speaker 1: went along with us. So tonight we're having a wide
Speaker 1: ranging conversation exploring everything from Tuskegee to the Thirteenth Amendment, WikiLeaks,
Speaker 1: hip hop programming, so much more. Get this, folks, We're
Speaker 1: not doing it alone. I can't believe this is a
Speaker 1: true story. Matt. We are joined live and direct in
Speaker 1: person with the activists, the musician, the legendary MC and
Speaker 1: creator of the hit new podcast Conversation with Killer Mike Michael.
Speaker 2: I do here. How you doing?
Speaker 3: Man's insane that you're sitting right next to us in
Speaker 3: real life.
Speaker 2: I'm happy to be here, and you guys know, my god,
Speaker 2: Man Ramsey gets me. We do Hey, man, I think
Speaker 2: we should do this. We mob out to do.
Speaker 3: But we've been sitting back admiring your work for I
Speaker 3: can't even tell you how many years. Man, thank you
Speaker 3: and and just everything you do, your solo work, RTJ,
Speaker 3: your your the work you've done in the sphere especially. Look,
Speaker 3: we were feeling I don't want to speak for everybody,
Speaker 3: but some of us were feeling the burn very hard
Speaker 3: at a time.
Speaker 2: That's my guy, Jeseuz, my god.
Speaker 3: So just you know, going back and just watching your
Speaker 3: work for a long time. Yeah, I was going to
Speaker 3: take it back to Georgia State really quickly shore mine,
Speaker 3: of course. Okay, So when my friends and I graduated
Speaker 3: the film program there at Georgia State, which was, in
Speaker 3: our opinion, one of the best film programs out there,
Speaker 3: we loved it. We learned so much. We started a
Speaker 3: small production company and one of the first things we
Speaker 3: shot was this little cooking show that was, you know,
Speaker 3: we're shooting a pilot for it, trying to get it off,
Speaker 3: and it was gonna be in Atlanta based cooking show.
Speaker 3: And the first person that we shot on that show
Speaker 3: is this guy who went by Kujo, and we were like,
Speaker 3: but at the time, for me, I have no idea
Speaker 3: who this person is. I think he's just going by
Speaker 3: a cool name from a scary movie that maybe dogs
Speaker 3: I didn't know who he was. You know, I'm a
Speaker 3: small town Georgia kid out in the suburbs.
Speaker 2: Him up like.
Speaker 3: This around we are, we're getting ready for camera, we're
Speaker 3: lighting in, we're just doing all this stuff. And then
Speaker 3: because of that though, I learned what Goodie Mob was,
Speaker 3: and because of that, I learned about everything that happened
Speaker 3: in Rico's basement. I learned about all of y'all and
Speaker 3: and all of that, and I just wonder what your
Speaker 3: maybe most positive takeaway is from working in a collective
Speaker 3: like that when you're starting out when and I call
Speaker 3: it a collector just because it seems like there's a
Speaker 3: lot of effort that goes in from everybody, for every
Speaker 3: you know, for everyone.
Speaker 2: I was Big Boys, punk ass friend, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? You know, between he had more house than
Speaker 2: Homecoming was just past a few days to go spell
Speaker 2: House spelled with the more House. I met the sea
Speaker 2: Low Reddick, not Seelo from Goodie Mob, but the se
Speaker 2: Low Reddick who was best friends with Big Boys from
Speaker 2: the time they had been in you know, elementary school,
Speaker 2: and we ran with his brother James. That's how I
Speaker 2: met Big Boy. So I felt this lucky to be
Speaker 2: around these guys as anybody in the world. The first
Speaker 2: person that put his arms around me, how they've done
Speaker 2: your family? Se Low Goodie he was a member of
Speaker 2: Goodie Mob also, So I just felt honored to be
Speaker 2: in the league. So whenever asked to do something fun
Speaker 2: it I wouldn't even help care in the bag that's
Speaker 2: water shot wrap, you know what. I mean I was.
Speaker 2: I just felt happy. And Kujo went to my rival
Speaker 2: high school and I went to He was older than
Speaker 2: me when I went to Frederick Douglas High School. He
Speaker 2: went to bend Rony Mags. And I'm a strong believer
Speaker 2: that you're as good as your rival. So you need
Speaker 2: a good rival high school to be your rival because
Speaker 2: it makes you want to be better at academics, arts programs,
Speaker 2: sports and everything else. So I believe there's a great
Speaker 2: symbiotic relationship between two schools. But I just love those
Speaker 2: guys man for after me, and I felt blessed to
Speaker 2: be a part of collective because I had literally grown
Speaker 2: up a fan, you know, while they were developing and growing.
Speaker 2: I was the one of those day one thing. And
Speaker 2: so I feel very honored to be a part of
Speaker 2: the Dunja Man. That's amazing, And.
Speaker 1: You've also been kind of creating your own collectives over time.
Speaker 1: You're a great You're a great connector with people, and
Speaker 1: that's where Okay, so we've got a couple of spoilers
Speaker 1: for you and this conversation as we conversate, one of
Speaker 1: your newest projects is of course, conversation Killer Mike. Typically
Speaker 1: we begin with a little more background about our guests,
Speaker 1: and not to be too atlantic about it, but I
Speaker 1: kind of assume everybody already knows.
Speaker 2: So working at it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with success. So maybe start by telling us a
Speaker 1: little bit about the providence of the origin story of
Speaker 1: your newest project of conversation, Like how did you guys
Speaker 1: start brainstorming?
Speaker 2: I met this guy named Ramsey. He aggravated the shit
Speaker 2: out of me about how my voice was needed in
Speaker 2: the podcast world and how valuable it could be because he,
Speaker 2: like you, described me as a connector. He's like, you know,
Speaker 2: you're here in Atlanta, man, and you know so many
Speaker 2: people and now the casual like come to my party
Speaker 2: kind of know, but like literally jinguly connected to people.
Speaker 2: You know, we could we could really use you. And
Speaker 2: I'm just like, I don't know what the fuck are
Speaker 2: you talking about. It's this weird, cool looking white guys
Speaker 2: telling me you could do it, and I'm just like, man,
Speaker 2: I don't what is it. I don't even understand podcasts.
Speaker 2: And I see other people start to do it, to
Speaker 2: start to take off. I know, I like listening to Joe.
Speaker 2: I like listening to Joe Rogan, and you know, Joe
Speaker 2: Budden's I like that, But I didn't think people really
Speaker 2: cared to hear about me on a regular basis or
Speaker 2: from me on a regular basis. I just knew when
Speaker 2: I had a chance to talk, at least try to
Speaker 2: leave people in the room more connected than not. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Or I said on Shannon Sharp's
Speaker 2: podcast recently, like listen and converse with one another, right,
Speaker 2: or conversate with one another to understand the other perspective.
Speaker 2: But understanding doesn't necessarily mean agreement. It just means I
Speaker 2: understand now, I understand I may not have understood before.
Speaker 2: So I grew with Ramsey kind of peeking it on
Speaker 2: me a few times a year, a relationship with Ramsey
Speaker 2: and which prowning into a friendship because he could see
Speaker 2: further down the road and me, and he understood that
Speaker 2: as much as we benefit from having you as a rapper,
Speaker 2: you know, much as you benefit from having you care
Speaker 2: about politics on a level hyper locally business, that we'd
Speaker 2: really benefit if you got a chance to talk to
Speaker 2: a bigger world. And I finally just broke town and
Speaker 2: said fuck it all right, and let's do it. And
Speaker 2: Ramsey's like, I'll do the hard part. I'll go get
Speaker 2: the equipment. I'll make sure we can we can have,
Speaker 2: you know, decent lunch at each one of them. But
Speaker 2: let's start conversing with people. Let's conversate. And I'm glad
Speaker 2: that I trusted my instincts because a lot of times
Speaker 2: you may have a skill and you may not. It's
Speaker 2: just it's just you, so you don't think of it
Speaker 2: as a skill. Just I have the ability to talk.
Speaker 2: I sit down on the plane. I still do the talks.
Speaker 2: In third grade. Third grade, we took got on the
Speaker 2: plane and told Eastern Company called Eastern before Delta was
Speaker 2: the biggest in the world. It was like you sat
Speaker 2: down and they taught you sit down and introduce yourself
Speaker 2: to the person next to you. They and at that time,
Speaker 2: I argue with people about this all the time. You
Speaker 2: they tell you to put your bags opposite you so
Speaker 2: you can see your bags. Okay, So I still do
Speaker 2: that because I'm old and when people try to say,
Speaker 2: stop fucking with my bags, so I need to see
Speaker 2: my shit. But I'll introduced myself and that's how I've
Speaker 2: met everyone, from people like Laura, Lenny. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, I'm just like, oh, you play on the bitch,
Speaker 2: see my wife fucking loves you, and then I end
Speaker 2: up playing with her best friend. I want to show
Speaker 2: now the lowdown, you know what I mean. Ramsey was
Speaker 2: one of those people I'm glad to introduced yourself to me,
Speaker 2: and I got introduced on it because he saw something
Speaker 2: in and around me that I couldn't see. Not that
Speaker 2: I ain't believe it, I just didn't see it. And
Speaker 2: my brother put it together and we're I think we're
Speaker 2: some in the teams now in terms of episodes, but
Speaker 2: I'm new. I like it because I'm genuinely curious. I
Speaker 2: don't know what the fuck I'm doing, and I'm willing
Speaker 2: to be coached. And I think that's my greatest asset.
Speaker 1: You know, talking it because she really Charlemagne, the God.
Speaker 2: The Same gave me the quote I will live with
Speaker 2: wherever black. If you have a problem in society, you
Speaker 2: can't just shit a ride a complaint because the retort
Speaker 2: from anybody it's the most villainous ship I've heard. So
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you gonna do about it? If
Speaker 2: you don't like what the fuck I'm doing, What the
Speaker 2: fucker you wanna do about it. It means I have
Speaker 2: to work hard, get stronger, develop an alternative, and climb
Speaker 2: the mountain, or the fuck you're gonna shut the fuck
Speaker 2: up like a mother. And I'm just sitting there talking.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, this is dope, Like this is this
Speaker 2: is getting one of the greatest mayors this city's ever
Speaker 2: had to tell how it really is. He says, how
Speaker 2: many deals have really just been homeboys sitting around talking.
Speaker 2: We got a coupletra billion to build a port in
Speaker 2: Savannah because of his relationship, but with Barack Obama, Like,
Speaker 2: if the funk you talking about we worried about these ports?
Speaker 2: What about these ports? These ports directly affect working class
Speaker 2: men in Georgia. That matters to me from you know. So,
Speaker 2: I just thought that that was fucking incredible getting a
Speaker 2: chance to talk to Charlemagne in a room like we
Speaker 2: talked his friends oftentimes on the phone. And that is
Speaker 2: amazing because I've seen his career progress from South Carolina
Speaker 2: to taking over the biggest, you know, biggest artment space
Speaker 2: in New York. So I love it. I get to
Speaker 2: converse with my friends and people I may not know.
Speaker 2: I get to understand different perspective, even if I don't
Speaker 2: agree with I get to understand it. So it's something
Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna do for a while.
Speaker 3: You know, people, well, we can't wait to hear more.
Speaker 3: We listened to the Casini Read episode specifically for one reason.
Speaker 3: I don't know if Ramsey ever told you a story
Speaker 3: about this. I don't know if you were there, Ramsey, No,
Speaker 3: you were not there. We've worked at this company since six.
Speaker 1: We can't get real jobs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so but you know, we were interns when we
Speaker 3: started out, and you know we're now executive producers and
Speaker 3: doing all this thing. But we've watched the company that
Speaker 3: I heard podcasts now Owns changed so much. And one time,
Speaker 3: a long time ago, we were at south By Southwest
Speaker 3: and at that time a video writer, video producer. I know,
Speaker 3: I think I was an editor and I wasn't even
Speaker 3: invited along. So I was back here in Atlanta. But
Speaker 3: everybody's at south By Southwest. They were given an opportunity
Speaker 3: because it was a special Atlanta gathering at south By Yeah,
Speaker 3: to either interview Kasim Read or you and the management
Speaker 3: shows Casim Read and everybody on production team was like,
Speaker 3: you know, it was.
Speaker 1: We were like the little kids who get pissed when
Speaker 1: drives the cars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they could have interviewed us together, right, I
Speaker 2: had campaign for Cassine and they had been here about
Speaker 2: a long time.
Speaker 3: I think it was schedules or whatever didn't work out.
Speaker 3: It was just, you know, we were lower.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet we would have been.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things we were trying. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure the statute has passed so we can talk about
Speaker 1: this story. But it's one of those things where you
Speaker 1: probably find yourself explaining this to people who aren't from
Speaker 1: Atlanta as well. What would I like to say to
Speaker 1: anybody coming from out of town or out of the country,
Speaker 1: is you have to understand about this city. The moment
Speaker 1: you land in the airport, everybody here is gonna talk
Speaker 1: to you as though you're vaguely related.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I watched some woman this
Speaker 2: morning complain about how fucked up at what she had
Speaker 2: moved from Houston to Atlanta, how rude and people weren't
Speaker 2: in I was like, yeah, she loves in suburbs. I
Speaker 2: was like, that's bitch outside twenty five because what's crazy
Speaker 2: about Atlanta. Everybody does treat you like you vaguary related
Speaker 2: or like they know you or know some one that does.
Speaker 2: And I love this city because even if someone sucks
Speaker 2: up and cuts you off, they rolled out and one,
Speaker 2: hey man, my band. Man, I'm late man, trying to
Speaker 2: get up to the Miss Jane Mount. Sorry, you get
Speaker 2: on a genuine my band. So there's a there's still
Speaker 2: a Southern hospitality in in even our rudeness, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean.
Speaker 3: But I feel like that might be a specific situation
Speaker 3: for you and they realize who you are there.
Speaker 2: Oh I've seen I've seen them ast all the playoffs too. Man.
Speaker 2: You know I love this city, man, I love it
Speaker 2: still subject we still, in my opinion, our small town
Speaker 2: operating as a big city.
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, sir, you know, okay, I want to talk
Speaker 3: about this. So myself and a few other people got
Speaker 3: the opportunity in twenty seventeen to make a show called
Speaker 3: Atlanta Monster. Yes, and it was all about Wayne Williams
Speaker 3: talked to the cities. You did you talked really well?
Speaker 2: I did an interview with so we were while an hour.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no joke, okay, because we worked directly with paying
Speaker 3: to make the shows for the US.
Speaker 2: Just talked about it.
Speaker 3: Oh that's okay. So well, I don't want to take
Speaker 3: anyway from anything away from that interview, but I just
Speaker 3: wonder if you could just tell us because you were
Speaker 3: like what a child as a kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when it was late seventies, early eighties, Atlanta has
Speaker 2: always been a city with lots of black people. In
Speaker 2: the seventies, with white flight happening, Atlanta became a predominantly
Speaker 2: black city. And under the reign of Atlanta's first black mayor,
Speaker 2: who was Maynard Jackson on the second term, a proliferation
Speaker 2: of murders in particularly with children from the inner city,
Speaker 2: and there's a proliferation of anxiety and fear and what
Speaker 2: was happening. I had friends whose mothers moved them up
Speaker 2: to Connecticut. Hat a cousin who ended up moving with
Speaker 2: his great grandmother out in Los Angeles. We were stayed.
Speaker 2: But the culture of childhom and this is the last
Speaker 2: key kids time. This is when moms had got out
Speaker 2: and started working, and oftentimes you would be letting yourself
Speaker 2: in and out. Kids weren't really looked after. Jen Nexters
Speaker 2: talk about an exciting way, and Lord knows the exciting
Speaker 2: but we'd go outside. Parents would know where we were for hours,
Speaker 2: and these little black boys start disappearing, and no one
Speaker 2: could answer why, who what happened? No one could answer
Speaker 2: if it was the clan it was, if it was
Speaker 2: government doing experiments on children, No one knew what happened.
Speaker 2: A guy named Wane Williams, who was from my side
Speaker 2: of the town, from the west side of Atlanta and
Speaker 2: actually went to the same high school Frederic lenhol was
Speaker 2: high school, ended up being convicted of killing two adults.
Speaker 2: Some people argue the murders never stopped. Some people argue
Speaker 2: they did with the lock up of him. Some people say, well,
Speaker 2: the black prostitutes start being killed. No one said or
Speaker 2: did any think about that. But it was very scared
Speaker 2: and time. And the weird thing about the time, though,
Speaker 2: is what kind of liberated us kids who had grown
Speaker 2: up in this air fear and be home by the
Speaker 2: time the lights come up and light night lights come
Speaker 2: on and only moving packs of like four or five
Speaker 2: six boys together. So I see the water boys, It
Speaker 2: reminds me of that time. Now you see the boys
Speaker 2: on the corner. We had to at that time moving
Speaker 2: units like that because you didn't want to be caught
Speaker 2: by yourself, even out to the point. One of my
Speaker 2: I tell this when I talked to paint on Our
Speaker 2: on the conversation podcasts of Mind. There was a time
Speaker 2: where me and my cousin were walking from school together
Speaker 2: and a funeral home hers stops, and two guys get
Speaker 2: out dressed like Lamont Sandford from Sandford and the Sun. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, and with the glass and the afroll and
Speaker 2: beckons us to come, you know, as though they're lost
Speaker 2: or something. What And man, we wait half a second,
Speaker 2: we start screaming, running out and answers up the road
Speaker 2: just because I'm like, we knew most of the funeral
Speaker 2: homes along the Martha King Here corridor. My grandmother had
Speaker 2: worked for Dawson Funeral. I'm just like, nah, I what
Speaker 2: the fuck, get the fuck out out and trusted and
Speaker 2: those guys scooted on the fuck out of there. So
Speaker 2: I don't know what that was or wasn't, but I
Speaker 2: know that the times made you, as a child more alert,
Speaker 2: kept your head on the swivel. And what liberated it,
Speaker 2: weirdly enough, was the plague of the In my opinion,
Speaker 2: reagular administration backed cocaine proliferation and crack era. With the
Speaker 2: crack era freed us as keyids up because when the
Speaker 2: proliferational crack hit inner cities and it stopped being cocaine
Speaker 2: and freebasing, something that was done added after discos and stuff,
Speaker 2: and started to hit front streets at the car washings
Speaker 2: and the housing projects. There was just people in the
Speaker 2: streets then, and even though it was wilder and weirder
Speaker 2: because of drugs, it felt safer Woa, because people were
Speaker 2: out now. Even during the Atlanta child murders, you'd have
Speaker 2: adults stand out on driveways and in their front yard
Speaker 2: make sure you got home. But the crack era Man
Speaker 2: and the Martyr Train when they finally opened up, gave
Speaker 2: us a train. We were fucking free, man. We were
Speaker 2: just it was it was just packs of kids that
Speaker 2: would be jumping on trains going downtown came in for
Speaker 2: fucking hours. But there was a real freedom in it.
Speaker 2: And even that brought us all sets of monsters into minds.
Speaker 2: But you know, I brought a certain demise of the community.
Speaker 2: But the monster and the fear of the Atlanta mission
Speaker 2: and murder kind of dissipated with the lock up of
Speaker 2: Wane and with the freedom that interestingly enough, the drug
Speaker 2: air brought on Wow.
Speaker 1: Man, and we'll pause here for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: But don't you worry.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back, and we're back with Killer Mike.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's no secret that we're tremendous fans
Speaker 1: of your work.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: In music, I would say, more importantly, one thing that
Speaker 1: comes along earlyast personally as a as a fan of
Speaker 1: the city, imperfect as it may be, one of the
Speaker 1: most powerful things we've seen you do throughout your career
Speaker 1: is community, is activism and positive change. And when we
Speaker 1: you know, look, if you're a fan of hip hop, folks,
Speaker 1: it's very easy, especially people who don't know much about
Speaker 1: hip hop, it's very easy for them to dismiss the
Speaker 1: work or to dismiss what is being explored. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that continually is a thread through your collaborations,
Speaker 1: through your solo work, through your team ups, is always
Speaker 1: this message of telling the truth of economic uplift, of
Speaker 1: the things your history textbooks might not have told us
Speaker 1: if we were growing up. So I'm setting up some
Speaker 1: stuff here. I'm sorry Matt if I'm going a little long.
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to fanboy. But one thing when we
Speaker 1: were all brainstorming our conversation today one thing that immediately
Speaker 1: stood out as we said, well, Michael, what do you
Speaker 1: want to talk about? Won't get to hang out? And
Speaker 1: the top thing on the list, you said, the thirteenth Amendment. Yes, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna I'm gonna read the clip of
Speaker 1: the thirteenth Amendment. Yes, I'm not gonna do a voice.
Speaker 1: I really want to, but this is serious. So the
Speaker 1: thirteenth Amendment says, neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as
Speaker 1: a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been
Speaker 1: duly convicted, shall exist within the United States deep breath,
Speaker 1: or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Congress shall have
Speaker 1: the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, slavery is very much alive A well,
Speaker 2: you know, I say, of America.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you tell us about the loophole there in
Speaker 1: the thirteenth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't realize. Andy got I watched if you
Speaker 2: guys have not watched doing the dirty work, Andrew Young,
Speaker 2: Rachel Maddow, executive produced at John Holtebryant helped put this
Speaker 2: thing together. First of all, shouts out that John Hoples
Speaker 2: a friendly mentor. Rachel thank you for being a napkin
Speaker 2: and an ally. Reverend Al Sharpton Houses event at Clark
Speaker 2: last week, Andy Young was there to talk about doing
Speaker 2: the dirty work. And doing the dirty work was him
Speaker 2: being a negotiator with and foreign at the direction of
Speaker 2: doctor King for the SELC partnering with Snick and John Lewis.
Speaker 2: Was before John came on to SELC. Andy had a
Speaker 2: hell of a run, you know, in terms of having
Speaker 2: to do the dirty work while while people were you know,
Speaker 2: mobilizing people. I didn't realize that he had gotten in
Speaker 2: trouble for essentially saying similar that they were political prisoners
Speaker 2: in the United States that had tons of them. Him
Speaker 2: and Carter, you know, Carter hand picked him the ambassador.
Speaker 2: That was one of the things where Carter's president had said,
Speaker 2: God damn it, now, you can't make the country look bad,
Speaker 2: so we gotta figure this one out. But Banandi told
Speaker 2: the truth, Black people, working class people, and poor people
Speaker 2: period are political prisoners more than not in this in
Speaker 2: this country because slavery and involuntary servitude shouldn't exist, except
Speaker 2: that's a big one. Accept and if you're a poor
Speaker 2: white boy in the Lower Appellachian northern Alabama, you're the accept.
Speaker 2: You're a poor white boy from Middle Georgia and Florida,
Speaker 2: you're the accept. If you're a poor white woman eastern Alabama, Mississippi,
Speaker 2: you're the accept because we may need to use your
Speaker 2: body for six or seven years, similar to the way
Speaker 2: they use the Irish as indentured service. Similar to those ways,
Speaker 2: you're the accept. And I said, if you're poor and white, now,
Speaker 2: if you're poor and black, you're the accept for the
Speaker 2: rest of your fucking life, if we can get you.
Speaker 2: I just interviewed a man named ak Bar Pray who
Speaker 2: had been a drug distributor in New Jersey. He gets
Speaker 2: locked up in nineteen ninety with a lifetime sentence. Now,
Speaker 2: other people who have gotten locked up who don't look
Speaker 2: like him don't get lifetime sentences. And I asked him,
Speaker 2: you know, what do you think you deserve? Or one?
Speaker 2: When I calls asks he's ho twenty there's a man
Speaker 2: who's responsible enough to say okay. Under the louder the guidelines,
Speaker 2: I would have ate twenty years. He was locked up
Speaker 2: thirty six years in three months. He was given a
Speaker 2: release date April nineteenth. I believe, well, what April up
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, and then right at then they told him, oh,
Speaker 2: we made a mistake. Holy sh and I don't know
Speaker 2: how to fuck He didn't go kill itself, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. But here he is now seventy seven
Speaker 2: year old man and his only mission for the rest
Speaker 2: of his life is to make sure other boys don't
Speaker 2: put themselves in a position and women don't put themselves
Speaker 2: in a position to be locked up for the rest
Speaker 2: of life. So we do have a system of slavery
Speaker 2: in this country. And you know when you have private
Speaker 2: prisons thanks to raign that are allowed to proliferate and say, okay,
Speaker 2: we're gonna build a private prison in Bubble Funck, Georgia.
Speaker 2: Whether they're no jobs, this is gonna guarantee three hundred jobs.
Speaker 2: This helps transform it and keep this economy. But we
Speaker 2: have to stay eighty four percent in bed capacity. So
Speaker 2: how can you guarantee an eighty four percent feel rate
Speaker 2: if you don't have a loophole in that make sure
Speaker 2: I can feel it, you know. So now petty crimes
Speaker 2: become major crimes. Five grams of cocaine crack cocaine, and
Speaker 2: he goes five hundred grams five hundred folks. You got
Speaker 2: don't know, man, when you start talking about five grams,
Speaker 2: isn't even worth two hundred bucks. Five hundred grams as
Speaker 2: a half a kilo? Wow? You know? So there is
Speaker 2: there is a grand conspiracy to keep slavery alive in
Speaker 2: this country because bullshit laws allows this country to lock
Speaker 2: up poor and I usually say it hurts us worse
Speaker 2: than first black people, but poor people in general are
Speaker 2: allowed to be used as free labor, and we should
Speaker 2: all be concerned with that because it gives reason to
Speaker 2: justify prisons, and especially private prisons. So when you talk
Speaker 2: about that prison that our president was clicking his heels
Speaker 2: about down in Florida that's surrounded by alligators, the fucked
Speaker 2: up part about it is that prison, no matter what
Speaker 2: Fox News says, it's going to house a lot of
Speaker 2: poor white folks too. It's not poor white folks in Florida, right.
Speaker 2: And at the same time, I'm seeing a black girl,
Speaker 2: well a young woman on there saying, hey, man, if
Speaker 2: you a CEO, will have the credentials to be a COO.
Speaker 2: They're starting pay is higher than other places. So sit here.
Speaker 2: So now you get a position where facilitily race aside.
Speaker 2: Class becomes the issue because as a CEO, that's a
Speaker 2: good job. Shit, you in the middle of fucking nowhere, Florida,
Speaker 2: You all of a sudden make fifty sixty seventy grand
Speaker 2: a fucking year for watching a bunch of poor people
Speaker 2: no one gives a fuck about, and put alligators around them.
Speaker 2: Even it's gonna be hard not to like capitalism. Then
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, you won't.
Speaker 1: Have shit going on. Hey, I'm from Ice. That much
Speaker 1: money I'm getting you for signing up?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for chasing down people who look like you or
Speaker 2: just may be of the same you know, economic status
Speaker 2: you are. So it's a time in this country. But
Speaker 2: I hope and wish that people in our country start
Speaker 2: to understand that not only Thirteenth Amendment classes it's racist.
Speaker 2: It gets incentive for us to keep a slave population
Speaker 2: in this country. And we don't do it redemptive. We
Speaker 2: don't we unlike we used to. At times, we're not
Speaker 2: sending in people for prison sentences and bringing out better people,
Speaker 2: people who've had a chance to have some psychological diagnoses
Speaker 2: and find out what's really going on, People who may
Speaker 2: have gotten a chance to learn dis from the structure,
Speaker 2: don't get out of enough time that they're young enough
Speaker 2: to use it to be They don't have trades programs
Speaker 2: in school, they don't even have you know, exercise equipment
Speaker 2: and federal presents anymore. So it's a very weird thing
Speaker 2: that we're using people's labor, and we use prisons for
Speaker 2: cheap labor too, And you know, it's just very weird
Speaker 2: to me that in this country, this republic that's so
Speaker 2: proud of freedom in our propaganda, that we don't push
Speaker 2: for freedom on at home, you know, on this clay.
Speaker 3: It's a suspicious I would say, yeah, I think it's
Speaker 3: wuked up too, but it's very suspicious that it's just
Speaker 3: kind of there's a there's a pretending, a collective pretending
Speaker 3: that we all do like it's not there somehow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in the South. It's especially fucked up because
Speaker 2: we're taught to be polite.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're taught to be polite. You know, there's some
Speaker 2: things you just don't talk about until the rich Auntes
Speaker 2: fucking son go to jail. Then everybody's talking about it,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I don't know if this is related at all,
Speaker 3: but I think it might be at least because of
Speaker 3: the history of the place. On the west side of
Speaker 3: two eighty five, on the banks of the Chattahoochee River,
Speaker 3: there's this huge abandoned lot that was once the Chattahoochie
Speaker 3: Break Company.
Speaker 2: My grandfather worked for them.
Speaker 3: What does yeah, what does it represent for you? And
Speaker 3: because I think at least back in the day they
Speaker 3: used to least labor.
Speaker 2: My grandfather was on the Changang for a while. He
Speaker 2: had told me about it that he had told me
Speaker 2: in Matterson. When they say slavery, stop and my grandfather's
Speaker 2: pirst person says, huh shit, they must not know about
Speaker 2: shell cropping and chin Gangsin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I fucking chang gang.
Speaker 2: There were when you wi these Georgia State roads, when
Speaker 2: you bought from the Chatahooche Break Company other companies, that
Speaker 2: was that was forced labor, that the state was leasing
Speaker 2: men out to their blood, sweat and tears that earned
Speaker 2: all this equity for other people, always money for other people,
Speaker 2: but nothing was the prison a pre pension plan. And
Speaker 2: even beyond that, when you look at places like Cabbage Town,
Speaker 2: there's this huge fucking warehouse using rule Georgians that they
Speaker 2: brought up, paying them not in the US treasury bills
Speaker 2: but in meal money, and then and then tripling the
Speaker 2: price of goods they would only buy from the meal store.
Speaker 2: So they don't give a fuck. In case you motherfuckers
Speaker 2: don't know, they don't give a fuck about you niggas
Speaker 2: or crackers, because the same people made both names. There's
Speaker 2: a planner class here. What they call that. We hear
Speaker 2: parents grandparents says that means master. It's a nice word
Speaker 2: for master. That means there's I don't give a fuck
Speaker 2: how much money I have as a rapper. My last
Speaker 2: name is not Cox. If your last name is Cox
Speaker 2: and fucking Georgia, you're not getting a ticket, Yeah you're not.
Speaker 1: You might get pulled over and apologize.
Speaker 2: And apologized to and GSP, don't apologize to nobody. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, George Charlie popping up apologizer. They
Speaker 2: pulled me on what time? Said, man, we knew this
Speaker 2: is your call. Just call them so cool and let
Speaker 2: me the fuck go. I'm sitting there stone as fuck,
Speaker 2: like God, damn just close. Don't ever be to be
Speaker 2: on the cocks, because the cocks of what's got damn
Speaker 2: money probably on the state. Like, we have to realize
Speaker 2: that there is a difference and we have to start
Speaker 2: looking past our differences to solve the bigger difference. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, we have to stop. I'm from Comings, I'm
Speaker 2: from Athams' man. I'm sure our mother's had about the
Speaker 2: same amount of power. The question becomes, when do we
Speaker 2: unite that power and just say we can't do this anymore.
Speaker 2: We need to change the thirteenth Monument.
Speaker 1: And how would we how how would that collective action work,
Speaker 1: especially when so many of the means of communication are controlled.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Powerful, but we're gonna have to get back to
Speaker 2: those ten or fifteen people in each other's living rooms
Speaker 2: and then in your church settings, and then you gets churches,
Speaker 2: and I say that this, most people live around people
Speaker 2: who look like them, unless they're searching for a diversity
Speaker 2: or just everybody so broke the gotta looked at you.
Speaker 2: So you know that they are conversations that are going
Speaker 2: on in Atlanta, West Atlanta, and conversations going on in commons.
Speaker 2: We know those people aren't just going to get together
Speaker 2: unless it's at the model of fucking outlets. They're trying
Speaker 2: to get in and out of there. But let's have
Speaker 2: those conversations. Technology gives us the ability to have those conversations,
Speaker 2: but let's filter through organizations we trust, whether it's a
Speaker 2: local five oh one, C three or church. Then let's
Speaker 2: have these church I remember being young and you'd have
Speaker 2: these church meetups, and you know, the Presbyterian churches were
Speaker 2: great about it about reaching out to black churches, and
Speaker 2: then they'd have these fellow meetups, and shit, we need
Speaker 2: to start doing this. So we just have honest dialogue.
Speaker 2: And out of that dialogue you have conversation, you create
Speaker 2: an understanding. It does not mean agreement, but you at
Speaker 2: least have understanding. And through that understanding, I believe you
Speaker 2: can start saying, well, what are the things that affect
Speaker 2: us both now? Right now, the Supreme Court is about
Speaker 2: to make a judgment or hear marijuana and guns. I'm
Speaker 2: a big proponent of marijuana and I'm a big proponent
Speaker 2: for guns. You should not give up your Second Amendment rights.
Speaker 2: With that said, the fucking Court should not force you
Speaker 2: to give up your Secondmendment rights because you smoke marijuana.
Speaker 2: Forty percent of all gun involved violence and shooting our
Speaker 2: alcohol involved. There is no goddamn plan on banning tequila
Speaker 2: if you own a three fifty seven mag's just not
Speaker 2: This is fucking Georgia. Most shiving guns go together. That
Speaker 2: I'm never gonna did a fucking commercial with guns. Shouts
Speaker 2: out the gun, shouts out to governor, kill right does
Speaker 2: the gun? And I was like, I felt that commercial
Speaker 2: dad daughters like you, but he's not gonna call the
Speaker 2: band the gun. But in Georgia right now, if you
Speaker 2: go to get a Georgia medical license, then you're gonna
Speaker 2: have to evoke your well, we don't need him anymore
Speaker 2: to have to giving up your concealed carry license. I
Speaker 2: don't get I don't think we should make stoners don't
Speaker 2: want to kill anyone Supreme courts. Stoners ain't trying to
Speaker 2: kill anyone SOLDI as trying to shield the fuck out,
Speaker 2: get high, go to sleep. Why you're gonna say what happened?
Speaker 2: So when you think of it, though, if I think
Speaker 2: of it, if I'm a tyrant and I want to
Speaker 2: see Benillavant, you know, I do something that ss banilla
Speaker 2: and I keep people laughing on Twitter and ship. But
Speaker 2: what's the good way to d arm half the population
Speaker 2: if half the population smokes marijuana? You revoked the right
Speaker 2: to own a gun by saying because you smoke, Manuaza,
Speaker 2: it's your choice.
Speaker 3: It doesn't feel like there's a specific demographic.
Speaker 2: Young progressive people were willing to look past writing that's
Speaker 2: nistening and say, these are the things we have in common,
Speaker 2: like the fred Hampton crowd. And so I think we
Speaker 2: as Americans have to get to the point where we
Speaker 2: are fred Hampton like. And I thought that we will
Speaker 2: sit now, speak, create understanding with and organize with others
Speaker 2: who have a common interest, even if they don't look
Speaker 2: like us.
Speaker 1: And that also involves confronting.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 1: I keep going back to the show we were sold
Speaker 1: in our textbooks, you know, as products of public school.
Speaker 1: It goes back to the idea of honestly, unflinchingly confronting
Speaker 1: those uncomfortable truths.
Speaker 3: Oh guys, time to pay some bills. We're gonna hear
Speaker 3: some mads. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: One thing we talked about briefly before we started rolling
Speaker 1: was I want to go back to your family history. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, having roots in Alabama. You mentioned that you
Speaker 1: of a personal relationship with the Tuskegees.
Speaker 2: Yes, my grand my great grandfather, Nah Black man his
Speaker 2: father or grandfather was using the experiment. I don't think
Speaker 2: my family got one hundred bucks in retribution or or
Speaker 2: you know, or money's for I think it. I think
Speaker 2: my cousin talked about it in some book that I
Speaker 2: didn't read. It was like twelve or fifteen bucks. I
Speaker 2: don't think it was at That's what you know. My
Speaker 2: great grandfather, my great grand mother and father. I knew
Speaker 2: my great grandmother died when I was nine years old.
Speaker 2: So when I said I kne him, I kne him.
Speaker 2: They sent us down, slept in their house. Fucking pick
Speaker 2: got eggs from under the chickens, We got water from
Speaker 2: the well. Like knew these people. And to know that
Speaker 2: these people were related to someone that was using the
Speaker 2: experiment that they ended, I don't think ending until seventy two, seventy,
Speaker 2: you know, so it was forty years easy. But to
Speaker 2: know that, and our farm is only two miles from
Speaker 2: the school from Tusky University. To know that I have
Speaker 2: that history, to know that on my father's side we're
Speaker 2: owned by were owned by the laws by Crawford Longs
Speaker 2: family father's side, but yeah, we were owned by them, yep.
Speaker 2: So for you know, my father's fucking fair skinned man
Speaker 2: with curly hair. So somebody was fucking and those weren't
Speaker 2: voluntary fucks. So you know that you're a private the
Speaker 2: rape on that side, This country's been an interesting country,
Speaker 2: and I'm a patriot. I love this Republican what could
Speaker 2: potentially be of it. But with that said, I can
Speaker 2: never ignore the fact when I hear dumb motherfuckers talking
Speaker 2: about how I didn't experience slavery. It was so long ago,
Speaker 2: it was far. My great grandmother's mother was enslaved. She
Speaker 2: taught her mother to read, she taught her children to read.
Speaker 2: I knew that woman until I was nine, held her hands,
Speaker 2: sat on her lap as de mentor robbed of who
Speaker 2: she was, and she went from calling me Michael the
Speaker 2: Feller and slowly withered away in front of my grandmother's
Speaker 2: I knew her, I knew her husband, my great grandfather N. H.
Speaker 2: Black Man. The farm they brought with both their names
Speaker 2: on the DS is in my phone. I look at
Speaker 2: it every single day when I pray and think about
Speaker 2: me and my wife and what we're trying to grow.
Speaker 2: So I know my parents were both born in apartheid.
Speaker 2: Born in nineteen fifty five, nineteen fifty nine. They were
Speaker 2: born into a world where they couldn't had their parents
Speaker 2: not being people who are highly respected, they could have
Speaker 2: not walked in front doors at some of the stores
Speaker 2: that I tend today. So it's just like, Man, get
Speaker 2: the fuck out of here. I don't I don't want
Speaker 2: to hear you know, what was so long agoing? Was
Speaker 2: that because these things affect African American steal and.
Speaker 1: It's never really that long ago. I think it's it's
Speaker 1: something that you know, it's something that I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people in the United States for for else,
Speaker 1: a lot of white people honestly prefer not to really
Speaker 1: think about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the politeness. It it's don't it's the same
Speaker 2: reason you allow children to be abused in your church
Speaker 2: or home. You don't do anything about it because it's
Speaker 2: ugly and it's messing and it stinks. But you got
Speaker 2: to deal with it.
Speaker 1: Because history is closer than it looks in that.
Speaker 3: Man, I want to switch gears for just a second.
Speaker 3: What I'm going to read a lyric for you, because
Speaker 3: I think it's something that you were and it was
Speaker 3: it was a little while ago, and we chose these
Speaker 3: carefully by the way it speaks to something that recently
Speaker 3: happened in the news, just like a current events thing. Okay,
Speaker 3: here he goes, and I'm sitting down doing hard time,
Speaker 3: pissing in a metal bowl, eating shit from a lunch line.
Speaker 3: In here. Nobody knows you by your name, just another
Speaker 3: number living under bitch ass rules of a broken game.
Speaker 3: They put me in here to die and left me
Speaker 3: angry and alone for the crime of being old. They
Speaker 3: threw me in this nursing home.
Speaker 2: What's it? What's all is it?
Speaker 3: It's from South Park?
Speaker 2: Oh, and it's.
Speaker 3: So good, by the way, season twenty one, gotta check
Speaker 3: it out. Do you have any thoughts on what happened
Speaker 3: or what is happening with South Park with you know,
Speaker 3: some of the late night hosts, with the First Amendment,
Speaker 3: with what's going on with any of that kind of
Speaker 3: control or anything.
Speaker 2: I know that our First Amendment rights are constantly under
Speaker 2: attack from the government. Yeah, that that's what I know,
Speaker 2: that that that they're constantly under attack. And I would
Speaker 2: advise people to start thinking past this hurts my feelings,
Speaker 2: so it should be banned, and start to think who
Speaker 2: am I not allowed to criticize at all?
Speaker 3: That's dangerous, tho, Michael, You.
Speaker 2: Got to say, who can I not talk about? And
Speaker 2: why can I not talk about it? Why is this
Speaker 2: president so so vicious in his attack backs and point aus?
Speaker 2: Why can't I criticize him? Why can't I? Why can't
Speaker 2: I criticize some groups and not other groups? Why can't I?
Speaker 2: Why can't I be vocal and honest about any and everything?
Speaker 2: And why do I want others to be silenced and
Speaker 2: not me? What I've seen today, the greatest danger is
Speaker 2: in if I don't agree with you, I want you silence,
Speaker 2: no matter what side you are. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I don't give a fuck what you're saying. I give
Speaker 2: a fuck that you have the right to say say it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what you're saying, I don't give a fuck. I got
Speaker 2: some shit I'm gonna say after you say that stupid
Speaker 2: shit you say. So I'm not bothered by a lot
Speaker 2: of the people who don't agree with what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I'm not bothered by what they're saying because my thing
Speaker 2: is if Elija Muhammad city years ago, if you take
Speaker 2: a glass of water that's dirty, you put it there.
Speaker 2: You don't offer people in alternative. They're gonna have to
Speaker 2: drink it. They're gonna, well, you need water for substance.
Speaker 2: But if I put a clean water right next to it,
Speaker 2: and people are gonna be attractive. And so it's simply
Speaker 2: my job to put my version of what I think
Speaker 2: the best water is out there and in the public
Speaker 2: or pubicler be pulled to on the side. But I'm
Speaker 2: very worried when people that I see myself an alliance
Speaker 2: agreeance with I, you know, philosophically, start to say I
Speaker 2: want that other side of silence. Yes, that that that
Speaker 2: starts to spook me. Chompsky talks about it. Yeah, to
Speaker 2: watch the old man when he talks about it. He
Speaker 2: pissed a lot of people off, for this is the truth.
Speaker 1: He doesn't miss it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you don't want, he does it. If you
Speaker 2: don't want the same rights that you have for your
Speaker 2: most bitter than me, and you don't you don't really
Speaker 2: care about those, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we traveled, you know, you've traveled quite a bit.
Speaker 1: And one thing that hits us often is, you know,
Speaker 1: here in the United States, it can be quite expensive
Speaker 1: to ever get out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And so
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't have the opportunity to know
Speaker 1: that the First Amendment right is something that is super fragile,
Speaker 1: always under attack. I love the fact that someone as
Speaker 1: dumb as me can wake up, have a bad day,
Speaker 1: talk some shit, and not get black bags into a van.
Speaker 2: Come Eric Nelson, my friend, man who wrote lyrics on Trial,
Speaker 2: Wrap on Trial. Read that book, guys, and get more
Speaker 2: familiar area. We're going to put some type of cross
Speaker 2: country talk together where he he sees how Facebook posts
Speaker 2: are getting guys, three four, five, six, seven, eight years Facebook.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like the Charlie Kirk stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like that kind of shit. Like
Speaker 2: you know, I'm you know people. I called my daughter
Speaker 2: and I said, hey, you know, people want to be
Speaker 2: coming to your campus to try to incite you to
Speaker 2: get a debate. I said, just ignore it, go to class,
Speaker 2: have your talk with your friends, do some organizing. I
Speaker 2: don't want you to become political father on someone's page
Speaker 2: simply because they want to get you riled up. And
Speaker 2: the best way to effectively show someone that I truly
Speaker 2: believe in the First Amendment is to simply say, go
Speaker 2: go here. This is a black campus. You can talk
Speaker 2: all that Charlie kirks you if you want to. We
Speaker 2: got classes to go to. Nobody's gonna pay you much attention, Bubba.
Speaker 2: We'll see you at the end of the day when
Speaker 2: no one's engaged you. I don't have a reason to
Speaker 2: fucking engage you. I already know I don't agree with you,
Speaker 2: but I already know you don't know what the fuck
Speaker 2: you're talking about. You're just saying things to incite people,
Speaker 2: and I give you that. You know the stokely Carmichael
Speaker 2: called me to her said, you know the powers not
Speaker 2: in your ability to call me nigga. Fuck you called
Speaker 2: me nigga. The powers in it if you tell me
Speaker 2: when nigga, you can't do it and your power is effective.
Speaker 2: See nin nigga, you can't vote if I keep walking
Speaker 2: to vote, but vote, I don't give a buck with you.
Speaker 2: But when you can put state patrol in front of
Speaker 2: that boating room and say nigga, you can't vote, oh,
Speaker 2: then niggas got to heck up. Then we got to
Speaker 2: go to war with you under state patrol because now
Speaker 2: you're denying me my right by use of force. Then
Speaker 2: the word nigga has has someone wait to it because
Speaker 2: you're preventing me through an armor of government. And that's
Speaker 2: what people. Don't stop giving your power to government. Be uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Just go ahead and be fucking uncomfortable because I'm in
Speaker 2: the UK. I'm stolen as a motherfucker, and I know
Speaker 2: to shut the fuck up because they have hate speech
Speaker 2: laws there, and I'm like, yeah, I'm an American. I
Speaker 2: don't give a fuck about the monarchy, you hate speech laws.
Speaker 2: I don't give you know what I like. I like
Speaker 2: your breakfast because my grandfather ate beans and fucking blood
Speaker 2: putting from breakfast too. But yeah, you guys ain't got
Speaker 2: it fucking right. That's why we fucking left, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? In Americans need to realize that, like,
Speaker 2: don't become your fucking parents.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you fuck out, Bubba. We have to that
Speaker 1: sometimes on the show too, where I think we pulled
Speaker 1: it back a little bit over the years, where we
Speaker 1: would say, you know, we have a lot of British friends,
Speaker 1: we love everybody. Yeah, but also you guys know you're
Speaker 1: a tribal system and on archipelago.
Speaker 2: Right, it's very strange.
Speaker 1: It's weird, like what are your qualifications for being the king?
Speaker 3: It's also weird how yes, yes, yeah, Like like Michael
Speaker 3: Jackson touched princes down in Prinsident and the old boy
Speaker 3: husband ever got mad, right, I might should have fucked her,
Speaker 3: Like the fuck you mean?
Speaker 2: I can't? Bits got too laughs too arms, just like me.
Speaker 2: I'm Michael fucking Jackson. I mean, I'm very serious in that,
Speaker 2: Like we don't understand and what I'm saying. We are
Speaker 2: talking to.
Speaker 1: Oh also Dylan Ramsey, we're keeping it.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, keeping that hard. That's all wrong, okay. But
Speaker 2: as Americans, both both privileged and unprivileged, both have and
Speaker 2: have nots, we are freer in in theory in terms
Speaker 2: of this republic on paper that any other society on earth.
Speaker 2: You are wealthy with those freedoms, use them before you
Speaker 2: before you voluntarily give them away. You know, I remember
Speaker 2: telling after the American said, before you jump on the
Speaker 2: no gun ship, you show you're probably on farm. You shooting,
Speaker 2: go shooting me a little bit.
Speaker 1: Don't see a place where you can't do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, yeah, you fucking get you get killed
Speaker 2: for three grands of marijuana. Jeff sentenced for three grands
Speaker 2: of fucking weed, Like what the fuck? Like, you gotta
Speaker 2: think about this ship man, ship's fucked up out here. Man,
Speaker 2: you got those beautiful bodies for my wife For the time,
Speaker 2: I said, what the fuck do you want to go
Speaker 2: to Bolly for? So the we don't do. We're gonna
Speaker 2: meditate with Russell Simmons. There's no weed there, I said,
Speaker 2: we can go to fucking Destined and get house fucking
Speaker 2: koba weed be out the deck stays smoking the rest
Speaker 2: of the weed. Yeahn't because give it back to you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, party, you don't have enough, like yeah,
Speaker 2: fucking Destined Like it's like, bro, you We truly have
Speaker 2: an amazing country. We have an amazing country if you
Speaker 2: drive from coast to coast in terms of what it
Speaker 2: looks like, the different geography you gotta see, we got
Speaker 2: an amazing country in the terms of the things you
Speaker 2: can see in people, you can experience, the place you
Speaker 2: can experience from the houses of the hot coast. We
Speaker 2: have an amazing country. Take some time to if you
Speaker 2: can't get out the country, to get around the country.
Speaker 2: Take some time to converse with people who don't look
Speaker 2: like you. You know who don't I have a friend.
Speaker 2: Man's names Mike Man oh Gi, Mike and Ohio. I
Speaker 2: met Mike on a plane coming from the on coming
Speaker 2: from one of the car auctions man, and we just
Speaker 2: have become buddies. He's a great old man and that's
Speaker 2: time we talk. He said, I don't imagine you have
Speaker 2: the same political abuse house, Like you'd be fucking surprised
Speaker 2: on the guns Mike, like he owns millions of dollars
Speaker 2: in fucking old muscle cars and shit, and find lf
Speaker 2: like how the buck did you get rich? Like I
Speaker 2: know how I got Negro rich service, how you're fucking rich?
Speaker 2: And you were overalls? And he's like I was in college.
Speaker 2: I wasn't very much interested. So I started drawing out
Speaker 2: some stuff out of improved farm equipment, almost like this
Speaker 2: large farm equipment company. She's rich and shit. I've grown
Speaker 2: as a human from knowing him because we have a
Speaker 2: common interest in old cars. But he has so much
Speaker 2: wisdom and energy to give and poor to me. This
Speaker 2: kid that he doesn't even know which way I vote,
Speaker 2: but he doesn't give a fuck. He just cares that
Speaker 2: I get to enjoy the American dream. He loved the
Speaker 2: fact that I'm a father and a dad and that
Speaker 2: I'm respectful. I love the fact that he breaks every
Speaker 2: old white man stereotype, you know, beyond like he dresses
Speaker 2: like an old white guy, looks like an old white guy.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. I might be the only
Speaker 2: rapper he listens to, but you walk in fucking his garage.
Speaker 2: He has, fucking man, it's got like half a million
Speaker 2: dollars and whiskeys from across the world. I'm just like,
Speaker 2: he's one of the most renaissance man I've ever met.
Speaker 2: Yet he just looks like any guy walking out of
Speaker 2: the appellation with a bottle of shine. And if we
Speaker 2: don't start to value that about him ourselves, James Balbin
Speaker 2: talk about is having to come to a recording because
Speaker 2: ain't going to pick up and move back to Africa.
Speaker 2: Whites ain't definitely ain't feel I know, the Scott's and
Speaker 2: Irish ain't going back. They're like, fuck that we worked
Speaker 2: hard in the first seven years. Bee, we're here. If
Speaker 2: we don't take some time to re establish who we
Speaker 2: are as individuals. What makes you feel good? Your family,
Speaker 2: your communities. But realize that America's like these quills said
Speaker 2: my great grandmother used to make. My great grandmother would
Speaker 2: have us in the summers, come down and bring your
Speaker 2: old clothes. So you brought your old blue jeans, your
Speaker 2: old sweaters and stuff. And then she would just take
Speaker 2: the next few days. She just cut all the shit
Speaker 2: up in the squares, triangles, whatever, and then she starts sewing.
Speaker 2: And by the time we were leaving or people were
Speaker 2: leaving my grandmother's house, everyone we have a blanket. But
Speaker 2: your blanket wasn't just your shit. It was your cousin's patchwork.
Speaker 2: It was your patch it was other cousin, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. And we still have these blankets. My
Speaker 2: sisters and now another family member still have these. That's
Speaker 2: what this country is. We're not a big bowl of
Speaker 2: suit where everybody kind of dissipates with the boiling water
Speaker 2: boils down who you are. We're not that, you know.
Speaker 2: We're not a salad where people can just kind of
Speaker 2: pick out the parts they don't like and don't like,
Speaker 2: and you know, you just eat the parts of Like us,
Speaker 2: we are quilt. Some parts there that quilts going to
Speaker 2: be dinom so she put a softer thing on the
Speaker 2: other side. Some parts of the piece are going to
Speaker 2: be a piece of your polo shirt that was your favorite,
Speaker 2: your mom hated it, you know what I mean, There's
Speaker 2: going to be parts of your fucking dad's old playboys
Speaker 2: shirt on their and shit. But if it really is
Speaker 2: a connector all I've wanted to be, what's a thread
Speaker 2: that kept that connection going? Because as much in as
Speaker 2: many differences as we have in this country, there's some
Speaker 2: things that make us uniquely American that are so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Bautist Republic, we have not truly exercised him our First
Speaker 2: Amendment rights to one of them. These guys are some
Speaker 2: assholes sometimes, but I watch to kind of kill time
Speaker 2: the First Amendment auditors. The auditors, come on, come on,
Speaker 2: all right, those these guys that go out on the
Speaker 2: fucking curve and they just fucking start filming shit. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Oh they're ballsy motherfuckers.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: They film banks, they film hospitals, they go to police
Speaker 2: stations to film because it's legal. Your First Amendment rights
Speaker 2: gives you the right the symbol freedom of religiend, freedom
Speaker 2: of press, and freedom of spirit, truth gathering school, noized government.
Speaker 2: So you can sit down on the sidewalk, you can
Speaker 2: film all day. Cops come hey, you know what I'm telling
Speaker 2: what you're doing? No, because it's your first Amendment right
Speaker 2: not to Well, all right, let me see you I
Speaker 2: D No. If you can't articulate reasonable suspicion or an
Speaker 2: actual crime I've done, I'm not required to give you
Speaker 2: a D. This is the best way to teach the Amendments.
Speaker 2: I'm like, why doesn't this happen in schools? Why the
Speaker 2: fuck could man to read? The way I learned civics
Speaker 2: was Miss Ellison, who was a fucking tyrant. She was
Speaker 2: a shape like a little bowling ball. She had a
Speaker 2: fucking three stooges haircut like fucking Larry you know, whichever
Speaker 2: one's going to have, and she had a peg leg.
Speaker 2: It was impossible not to laugh, right, Why dare you
Speaker 2: do it? This motherfuck was? My mother had her at
Speaker 2: fifteen while pregnant with me. Oh wow, she told my mother,
Speaker 2: and my mother laughed at her. Okay, okay, we'll see
Speaker 2: you again. My mother had to take the Sibby's class
Speaker 2: back over as a singer.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: When my mother found out I had Miss Ellison's the
Speaker 2: civic teacher, she told me, you shut the fuck up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you sit at the front of the class and
Speaker 2: you don't say a fucking word. What the fuck are
Speaker 2: you talking about. I'm like this, CI, I have an
Speaker 2: understanding of what I mean. Miss Elison said, what's your name?
Speaker 2: I said, her name is Michael. She says, Michael. What
Speaker 2: said Michael? Render? My mother's main last name was Cluntz.
Speaker 2: She said, I no, no, what's your mother's name? I said,
Speaker 2: her mother's name is Denise Denise? What I said, her
Speaker 2: name is Denise Smith? What was her name when she
Speaker 2: went here? I said, what name is u? Zella? Zella class? Oh?
Speaker 2: Go ask your mama about me? Wow, somewhere home as
Speaker 2: my mom els exactly crazy, brother, And she's like, you
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up. You said the funning class, You
Speaker 2: shut the fuck I came the next day and Miss
Speaker 2: Elton I said, it's back calling out home and she
Speaker 2: went in to see me. Shut the fuck up. Miss
Speaker 2: Ellison said, Michael. I said, yes, ma'am. She says, and
Speaker 2: it's the class not quiet. She says, did you talk
Speaker 2: to your mother? I said, yes, ma'am. What she tell you?
Speaker 2: She told me to sit at the front of the
Speaker 2: class and to shut up. She said, well, there's a
Speaker 2: spot for you here. I walked my ass up, sat
Speaker 2: next to Shari read so me and Shari Read. I
Speaker 2: was just like, God, damn, this bitch got a target
Speaker 2: on my back. Brother. And for the rest of that semester,
Speaker 2: that woman taught me why to love America in terms
Speaker 2: of how principle it could be because she was a tyrant.
Speaker 2: She was a tyrant. I knew I deserved that a
Speaker 2: in that class. I knew Shari Read was reading off
Speaker 2: my fucking paper. That lady gave me a B plus.
Speaker 3: Shit it on me, but do you feel it?
Speaker 2: But I understood her wanting me to understand the Bill
Speaker 2: of Rights, the Amendments, what this republic promise, and the
Speaker 2: way she exercise that when she showed me what titalitarianism
Speaker 2: was because in her classroom she was an absolute dictator.
Speaker 1: Not a democracy.
Speaker 2: It was not a democracy in that class. And it
Speaker 2: made me love the potential of what this could be.
Speaker 2: And she tested. She bring me up in front of
Speaker 2: class explain to these other people what that means because
Speaker 2: she knew I had to understand. She knew I got it,
Speaker 2: but she didn't give me a break me in. At
Speaker 2: the end she said, what do you think you deserved?
Speaker 2: I said, I deserve eight Yeah, yeah, I should have
Speaker 2: said hey. Plus she brought me down to ay. That
Speaker 2: brought me down to be plus I was mad, I
Speaker 2: was dyslectric, so my writing might have been fucked up.
Speaker 2: But she that conditioning, you know, along with later reading
Speaker 2: Chomskin things like that, really conditioned me to love the potential.
Speaker 2: But what we are has to be maintained. It's not
Speaker 2: something that's static and just we can just accept it is.
Speaker 2: It has to be the line has to be pushed
Speaker 2: on a constant and consistent basis.
Speaker 1: Democracy is like any other muscle. If you don't use.
Speaker 2: It, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1: And hold the phone, don't run the jewels just yet, Dylan,
Speaker 1: we get a sound effect, all right, that's perfect. We've
Speaker 1: had such an amazing exploration here that we're actually making
Speaker 1: this a two part interview and through the magic of editing, Matt,
Speaker 1: you and I don't know exactly where this part of
Speaker 1: the interview stops.
Speaker 3: We have no idea. Oh we're sitting here with baited
Speaker 3: breath just like you. Is there going to be more?
Speaker 3: They say there's gonna be more. I hope there's more.
Speaker 3: We talked a lot more.
Speaker 1: We sure did, and we would love to hear from
Speaker 1: you folks, so please tune in to part two of
Speaker 1: our interview on conversation with none other than the legendary
Speaker 1: Killer Mike. In the meantime, we'd love to hear your thoughts,
Speaker 1: so you can find us online Conspiracy Stuff, Conspiracy Stuff
Speaker 1: show anywhere there's an at sign something like that, I'll
Speaker 1: get you there. You can also call us on the phone.
Speaker 3: Our number is one eight three three std wy TK
Speaker 3: Oh my ai God. We haven't been able to do
Speaker 3: that in a while. Thank you, Ben. That's our phone number.
Speaker 3: You can call it. It's a voicemail system. When you
Speaker 3: call in, give yourself a cool nickname and let us
Speaker 3: know if we can use your name and message on
Speaker 3: the air. If you'd like to instead send us an email,
Speaker 3: you can.
Speaker 1: We are the entities the red piece of correspondence we received.
Speaker 1: Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back,
Speaker 1: what do we mean? There's one way to find out.
Speaker 1: Join us here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
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