WEBVTT - Andy Grammer 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.080 Book of Welcome Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:16.520 My guest today is recording artist and performer Andy Graham. 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:18.760 How are you, Dad? I'm good. You know you got 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.239 up to get a period. I wanted to have drinks here. 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.160 I saw on the back of your jacket it said 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.600 reckless optimists. Is that how you see yourself? That's kind 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:29.760 of where where I'm at right now. I like that. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.720 I love the idea of it being like a rebellion. Okay, 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.400 well there's a there's a couple of things. There's a 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.640 rebellion and optimists. Were you always an optimist? Yeah? I 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:39.279 think I was kind of like I think I came 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.760 out this way. Well, I mean that makes it easier 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.960 in a business where it's almost impossible to succeed. Impossible, 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:51.760 stupid exactly. So do you come from a family of optimists? 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:54.520 I do? You know? My My dad as a children's singer. 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.520 His name is Greg Grammer, unbelievable Grammy nominated child a 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:02.240 singer We lost to Mr Rogers compilation album a while back. Um, 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.880 and my mother helped him write the songs. So I 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.920 grew up around um Yeah, a lot like a lot 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:12.440 of like good vibes and songwriting. I have to ask, Okay, 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.120 is Gramm or the original name or did they change 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.440 that for the act? No real name, real name? Do 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:19.880 you have any idea of the derivation of them? Uh? Yeah, 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:24.440 I think it's German? Okay. Uh so you were discovered 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:29.280 busting Yeah. Man. Well, first I want to say that 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.160 you are a fascinating figure to me, and I'm a 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:36.000 huge fan of yours. My wife when we was probably 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.880 ten years ago, my wife was interning at Warner Records, 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:41.959 and she's like, Oh, you have to get that. You 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:43.360 have to listen to this. I mean, you have to 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.440 subscribe to the Lessets letter because he's like the he's 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.840 got the pulse. And so we were both like all right, 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:50.400 and we just I've been reading you ever since, and 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.800 I find you really really interesting and I love the 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.520 voice of like you have this sense that you just 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.760 don't care what anyone else thinks. Is that true? Well? No, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.760 you know, yes, but that's true. I Mean there are 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.279 a couple of things there. There's a Bob Dylan line 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.840 to live outside the law. You must be honest, you know, 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:13.560 and so if you take the money, you're compromised, you know. 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.399 So if you don't take the money, you can say 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:18.840 whatever you say. And at this point I still occasionally 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.639 get people emailed me a little bit more than occasionally. 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:23.600 You don't wanting to do a trade out like hype that, 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.600 and I say, you know, I don't do that. And 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.360 the other thing is people don't understand the game, which 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.440 is is someone he gives you something and you burn them. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:36.320 That just burns the relationship. You're just done, So you 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.840 can't do that. But I think this is very similar 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:43.079 to the election we have. I'm trying to come from 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:47.839 the vision of reality. Frequently, everybody knows reality, but nobody 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:51.440 speaks it, so therefore I'm saying it. And certainly we 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.519 had all this technological revolution and the music business was 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.880 scnary in the coal mine, and it's fascinating to watch 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:02.080 the television and movie business still wrestling with that after 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.680 they could look back at the turmoil we went through. 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.720 So yes, you know, you might be the only critic 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.679 a critic or now I don't really but I don't 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:13.639 have a big term problem with the term. Yeah, you're 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:15.240 one of the only ones that I that I will 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.760 actually check in on when you say when you say stuff, 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.560 and I don't always agree with you, but I know 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.040 that you are coming from a very sincere, honest place, 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.000 and that's dope. Man. Well that's what that's really great. 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.400 You know, I said, you know, I may not agree 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.119 with you, but I know that's really your opinion. But 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.720 in a world where that's kind of rare, I congratulate, 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:34.960 you know, as I say, that's what the music used 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.040 to be. Uh. It used to be in the sixties 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.480 and early seventies in America for getting inherited wealth. In Europe, 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.840 a musician was as wealthy as anybody in America and 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.840 therefore what we'd call the rock star lifestyle, which has 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:53.520 not been taken over by bankers and people. It was like, 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:55.920 oh yeah, I mean the famous thing was, yeah, we 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.440 wrecked the hotel room, our road manager shows up with 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.920 a roll of hundreds and we move on. It's like, uh, 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.640 And then you know, I'm not necessarily uh in favor 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:07.840 of some of this behavior. But there's a famous story. 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.320 God time goes back and you're young in the mid 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.920 seventies seventy five, I believe where Neil Young and Steven 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.760 still has did an album or may run. They had 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:21.279 a tour planned. Neil Young famously to this day goes 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.720 into his sort of modified Winnebago and Stephen Stills went 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.839 down first, and Neil Young cinema uh telling me, said, 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.880 doesn't feel right. I'm not doing it okay, whereas everybody says, oh, 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.839 I'm working hard, you know, because that's what I'm supposed 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.960 to do. And I think that's a problem we have 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.760 in the music business now. First and foremost of the 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:45.440 music business now, people are either very successful, there's not 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:49.480 much of the middle class, okay, and a lot of 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:52.279 people on the lower end. Bitch. There's two kinds of 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.359 people that bitch. They're the people who were pissed that 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.880 they missed out on the glory days of the major labels, etcetera, 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.400 who probably do to have the talent. And then the 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.440 people were the beneficiaries of that. And when we came 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:06.280 to the internet, we found out people didn't really want 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.440 to listen to their music that much. Yeah, okay, so 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.640 we have these I want to disagree with the middle class. 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.440 You think there's no middle class. I feel like that 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.520 these days get you. Wait, wait, wait, wait, let's define 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.599 middle class. Middle class to me means that you are 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.280 a musician that gets to make their own music, and 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:28.560 you make enough money to live comfortably. Okay, I mean, 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:30.560 I hate to put metrics on it, but I will 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.080 you that middle class musician. How many tickets does that 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:39.359 person sell as they tour? I mean there are people 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:40.880 that I think that are middle class that can sell 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.960 thousand tickets. Thousand tickets is a real is real number. 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.440 How low would it go when you still consider them 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.640 to be middle class? I guess it depends. If we're 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:52.760 just talking money, then you could sell three hundred. But 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.560 if you're a sinc beast, then like your middle class. Okay, 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:01.080 I think they're It's kind of it looks like the 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.159 country at large. We still have a middle class, but 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:10.560 it is not the dominant bubble. It's more lower middle class. 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.400 I do not have a problem with people. The problem 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.680 becomes that a lot of the people you're referencing who 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:21.960 have a have fans, have a career, don't stop complaining 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.720 that they're not more successful. If the people were saying 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.039 this is what I do and this is who I am, great, 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:30.839 I mean. On the other end, I did Folk Alliance, 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.039 which is actually a fascinating organization. This goes back about 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.680 seven or eight years ago and I'm talking and a 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.560 guy said, uh, are you gonna tell me? I forget. 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:43.400 The term was sort of like a middle class musician. 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:45.440 I know, how much do you make in a year? 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.240 He goes, I grows ten thousand dollars. I think you know, 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:53.640 this guy's in his own world. Okay, so you know, 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.720 but it used to be very different. Going back from 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.320 my original point, it used to be the threshold was 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.920 getting a major your label deal. There were six major 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.880 companies up in god the nineties when he started getting consolidation. 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:10.360 That those companies, unlike today, usually would stay with you, 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:15.119 especially Warner Brothers for five records, and therefore you would 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:19.080 not only you you got their money, and you also 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:23.400 got their publicity and hopefully some radio play such that 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:27.400 people became aware of you. And if it ended, you 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:31.000 still had something. I mean, I'm gonna get into dangerous territory. 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.560 Go there. Anyway. There's this act Amy Man. She had 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.960 a hit with Till Tuesday on Columbia of Voices carry 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:43.000 I love that, Okay. Then she was a critics Darling forever. Okay. 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.440 When the label money dried up, it turns out there 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.080 was a limited number of Amy Man fans, not judging 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:53.440 the music whatsoever. But she was supported by the system. 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:59.000 Everybody who was involved prior to the Internet. They're still bitching. 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.520 I think this has killed rock music because they keep 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.040 telling their fans don't stream, and that's where all that's 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.600 where all the action is. But I do believe going back. Yes, 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.440 there are some people who are beneficiaries of that who 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.040 are complaining they're not making money today. But the truth 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.200 is not that many people want to listen to their music. 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:22.120 But there's also a number of people who say, God, 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.240 I want to suck at the major label tent. I 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.680 wish that I had all this money, which is not 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:28.440 how they do it any They don't do that anymore. 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.880 My question to you is what's the net gain or 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:35.400 loss of having a small amount of people they get 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:37.760 what you're talking about, or a large amount of people 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:43.240 they get uh freaking distribution. Okay, for let's look at 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:47.240 it from the consumer end. Yeah, the turn of the 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:51.480 century and Internet, everybody was involved who had success previously 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.000 said oh, there's gonna be no money in music, no 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.960 one's gonna make music. Needles say they were totally wrong. 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:02.840 The opposite happened. Okay, the barrier to entry is essentially 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.600 non existent. You can make a song on garage band 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.040 today for no money if you have a computer, and 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.440 you can upload it to a service that will put 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.880 it on the streaming services, and then you'll spam everybody saying, hey, 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.360 you gotta listen to my stuff. Okay. So if you 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:24.560 are on the consumer end, it is almost the scene 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.120 is almost incomprehensible because if you go back to where 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.880 you started, you have a lot of bullshit. You have 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.520 the labels saying, you know, this is what bothers me 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.880 label say everything we put out is great, which is untrue. 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.400 Sure most of them. If you say this is the 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.800 one thing, listen to this great, okay, but there are 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.800 so many things. If I go through the Spotify top fifty, 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.240 first of all, you go to through the U S 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:53.520 Top fifties, mostly hip hop, some pop. Okay. Uh, you 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.720 might find one or two songs that surprise you. Okay, 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.120 maybe exactly. I'm glad you said that. But then you 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.360 gotta go through all the other genres. You gotta go 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.800 through country, you gotta go through an electronic. The scene 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:11.200 is overwhelming such that, uh, you discover something and you 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.240 say to yourself, am I the only person who's listening 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:19.400 to this. Okay, So we're looking for some community. Uh, 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.840 I'll give you an example with the movies. It used 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.280 to be until about two thousand three, two thousand five, 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.600 boomers would go out to the movies because that would 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.400 give him a point of commonality when they hung together. 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:34.880 Then all of a sudden, everybody realized we're not making 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.319 our kind of movies and they stopped going. Now it's television. 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.520 But even television, you know, you can't talk music when 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.520 you get together people because no one's listening to the 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.800 same thing. And then you get the BS from the 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:52.800 media industrial complex saying hip hop, it's hip hop whatever. 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.520 So if you're not listening to hip hop, you don't count. Okay, 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:57.560 and I'm not. I don't want to make it about 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.360 hip hop. What I want to make it is never 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:05.760 in the history recorded music, certainly in my lifetime. Uh 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.560 has the big been so small? Yes, it used to be. 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.040 If you had to hit, everybody knew it. They may 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.160 not like it, Okay, Taylor Swift, you know one of 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.040 the biggest acts. You know, if you go back two 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:22.520 albums ago, whatever it's called, the average person is aware of. Uh, 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.400 we are never ever getting back together, but they can't 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.880 sing any of the other songs, so no one has 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.760 that reach. So my point once again is is someone 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.200 cobbles together a living. I have no problem with it. 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:39.600 I think that's great, okay, But frequently those people are 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:43.000 not happy where they are and they're bitching. And secondly, 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:48.920 as a consumer, we're just overwhelmed. I would agree with 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.160 the consumer thing that we're overwhelmed and that there's a 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.280 lot of people that are not being served by this 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.200 current situation. There's so much attention being left on the table. 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.200 I know there's a lot of people that like the 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.280 style of music that I make, and it is my 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:03.840 job to try and figure out how the hell do 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.640 I get to you right now? Because the modes to 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.960 get there are not as big or similar to what 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:14.360 they've been, So how do you do it? Um? You know, 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:19.120 right now, there's like a big push towards what I 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.439 would think is kind of what I've read you say 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.160 as well. It's like, I think it's less about trying 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.520 to take over the world and trying to build your niche, 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.440 Like everyone has their own niche, so I think it's 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:32.000 tripling down on specifically what you do that may not 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.080 have worked well, you know that artistically, that usually is 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.160 how you get to something good anyway, is by just 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.240 being like, all right, this is my thing. I'm gonna 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.760 triple down on this. I'm gonna try this, take risks here, 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.480 um and then see all see the modes that used 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.640 to be the big win as just another piece. You know. 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.480 I had a viral video on Facebook this year that 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.280 was like maybe the driving factor of my career I had. 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.360 I went and played on Good Morning America. It was 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.880 to Today's show awesome, and then then and then right 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.680 after I went to this classroom was called PS twenty 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:05.520 two and I sang my song Don't give Up on 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.400 Me with a bunch of kids that had learned it, 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.079 and that thing went insane. And I went on tour 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.720 and the number one thing I heard was of new 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.000 fans was like, oh man, I saw your video on Facebook. 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.200 That's why I'm here. Okay, I'm gonna ask and do 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.440 you know how many people viewed that video? I think 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.960 it's like sixty million. Was it completely viral or did 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:31.199 you work it? It started completely viral? And then uh, 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.920 this company crowd Surf that I work with, then they 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.200 start like it's kind of honestly, like a label. Once 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.840 they see they have something, then you start going like whoa, 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.200 And that was something I knew was viral, and I 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.080 reached out to every one of my friends. You know, 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:45.840 there was this thing that it used to be, like 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.840 promoting singles. It's kind of dead now, but in the 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.200 early stages of when social media was happening, you have 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.000 artists that would be like, go check out my friend's song. 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.160 It was like a season where that happened, and then 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.800 we all fucking hated it. Right, well, that's what I 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.640 was video. Oh my god, Dave, you don't text me 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.040 Gangham style, and then everybody tried to have a viral video. 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.640 The last one was Bouer of the Harlem Shake and people, 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.400 this is manipulated, and then we don't have that kind 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:15.560 of video anyway. Yeah, they do on TikTok still differ 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:17.880 with you, but the full different universe. You go there, yea, 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.040 he walked in there and around. Well, but this is 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:25.800 just like rock band Guitar Hero because certainly Little nas 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.920 X was boosted and made on TikTok Okay, so now 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.600 everybody says, oh, it's all about TikTok and they're gonna 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.240 get and they're gonna burn it out. I'm not saying 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.320 TikTok the platform will necessarily burn out, but as a 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:41.920 vehicle to break records, you know, it's really more about 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.880 the participants in the music on that site anyway. So 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:46.840 or what we say is what we're saying, which is 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.200 kind of interesting, is like, you know, I'm good friends 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.320 with the need to Breathe guys. You don't need to Breathe. No, 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.920 I don't. They're this band. I had him on my podcast. 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.120 No he knows who they are, except they sell like 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.280 nine thousand tickets shows and you're like, slow, what are 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.320 you talk so fill out red rocks like two nights 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.040 in a row. Okay, wait, the name of the act. 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.120 It's called need to Breathe. Oh, need to Breathe. Yes, 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.840 I heard it is a need to Breathe ground No, no, no, no, 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.200 I just need to breathe. And what what he said 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.160 what was so cool is he's like there was a 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.480 point where we were like, we don't care about anyone 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.520 except the fan that's coming to my show. I don't 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:22.720 care about radio, I don't care about anything else except 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:24.680 for like, I just want to over deliver for you, 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:26.920 and we've done that over and over again, and now 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:28.800 we have this huge base and whether people know who 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.520 we are or not, we don't care. How many acts 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:36.160 survived outside of the golden era that you're speaking of, 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.960 were radio actually, like when when labels mattered more than ever? 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:41.960 In radio matter more than ever? Did you even have 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:48.080 a shot is closed? And you don't have need to breathe? Right? Yeah, Well, 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.600 the fascinating thing, of course, this need to breathe is 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.760 existing out of the mindset of the media industrial complex. 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.280 They have no slot to fit that in talking about 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.280 forgetting even a label hyping it. But the media, the 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.640 media says, we listened at the we look at the charts, 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.320 we get our information from the labels. That's all that exists. 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.800 And your point is well taken that they're all these 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.160 other acts. So I'm I'm now like almost ten years 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.120 into my career. I have a really awesome loyal fan 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.440 base that like specifically what I do, and I'm like, yes, 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.080 I definitely have a lot of relationship at radio and 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.080 put so much energy into that and I will continue 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.680 to do that. But also, like, man, how do you exist? What? 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.400 What is the forest? When you leave and go in 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.800 your own zone and just start creating. Okay, let's let's 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:39.640 go a little bit slower. Before you went on the 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:45.640 Today's Show. Yeah, what was your thought? We that song? Um? 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:47.480 One of my best friends that I was roommate with 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.040 for a while, he had a movie that came out. 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:51.920 It was a big hit this year, called five ft Apart, 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.440 and he needed a song and I kept sending them 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.120 songs and this one worked first movie. How many song 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.760 the three? Not many, but I'd send him on. He's like, 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.520 just just to get into the process. Yet, okay, how 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.760 long after he said he he brought you? You didn't 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.639 pitch him? Correct, No, he texted we're like best friends. 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.919 He texted, I need a song. How long after he 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:17.760 said he said, you know there's this other big name 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.360 artist that they're trying that they want me to use 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.199 and he's charging Mad Doe. Okay, a song that can 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.399 beat his song and you don't have to charge me 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.080 like crazy money. Yet? Okay? How long after he texted 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.399 you did you start to write? I had written it 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.560 that week. It was like perfect, So that song you'd 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.280 already written. I wrote it that week and then I 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:38.800 was like, oh, I just wrote this one, what do 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.720 you think of this one? And then it worked perfectly 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.000 and that came out in the movie and reacted gang 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.160 but a little bit, a little bit slower the song 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:49.960 tell me the process of the development of the song. 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.119 The song called Don't give up on Me, I could 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:59.760 really I know that every that now I'm I'm a 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.080 big enough thing that needs like a lot of feeding. 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:05.760 I have, like you know, my band as retainers. There's 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:11.000 all this ship. Everybody's like your band is on retainer, 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.520 some of some of them arias fifty two weeks a year, yes, 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.600 versions of that. So that plus just like it's just 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.080 a big thing now to move my machine forward. So 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.879 I need like any business. But it's a little bit 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:26.960 weird the music business because you're trying to find unicorns. 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.240 It's like really freaking hard to find it, especially in 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.840 this day and age. And so I was really feeling 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.840 stressed because I can. I'm having me and my manager, 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:38.040 we'll have a pretty good gut about like we don't 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.920 have the magic that we need. You know. There's another 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:45.160 story about my second album. We we released the album. 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:47.280 I mean, we're we're having an album released party. We're 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.520 playing everybody of the songs and then we leave. My 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.320 managers like he's a lot like you just like straightforward. 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:54.800 This can be blunt. Sometimes he's like, we don't have 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:56.600 the thing we need, and I know I've written a 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.280 hundred songs for that album, and then we went and 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.399 wrote a hundred and one was Honey I'm Good. So 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.919 like we know, just to slow down. You had the 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.159 album listening party, and then you did not release that 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:12.080 album in that form? No, how long after did you 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.000 have the final album? But we just needed as soon 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:16.520 as we wrote that song, we just added we just 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.560 how long after that? I wasn't like printed, it was 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.560 like get together. How long after that did you write 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.719 the song? Next day? Okay? Yeah, okay, So this is 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.240 like you may or may not know this story. Bruce 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.320 Springsteen manager saying I'm born in the USA, saying we 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.800 didn't have a hit, and he immediately wrote Dancing in 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.520 the Dark exactly so, And it's kind of funny because 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.199 your manager goes like we need it, and you're like, 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.440 I just wrote a hundred, so I guess I'll write 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.320 another one. I hate you, okay, but when you wrote 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.520 Honey I'm Good, walk us through the process of how 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:48.840 you did that. So it was me and my great 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:50.879 friend Nolan's pipe and it was just the two of 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:54.760 us and we got together, uh and we you know, 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:56.680 like most great songs came out in like two hours. 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.840 But a couple of questions, what percentage of your songs 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:04.080 written solo or what percentage with other people? Most of 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.760 them at this part, at this point are with other people. 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.280 And I think the reason that is is once I 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.200 got really settled in my point of view, I started 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.320 to see immense value of co writing. Just go a 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.879 little deeper until you know your point of view. Co 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.399 writing can be a little dicey because you don't know 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.160 what you're gonna say, so then words start get thrown 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.359 like lines are getting thrown around. Point of view is 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:27.640 being thrown around, and if you're not set on what 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.520 you're here to bring, then it can be you can 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:32.480 you know, I have a couple of songs that if 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:34.160 when I look back, I'm like, oh, that's not really 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.080 my point of view necessarily, and I don't really stand 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.119 behind that. But once you know, you like I know 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:40.439 who I am, I know what I'm about, I know 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:41.960 what I want to sing about, then it's like, go 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.359 get the best melody person you've ever met. Oh my god, 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.520 get the first the best track guy, and let me 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:50.520 help direct this thing and and get myself amplified as 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.880 great as I can be. Okay, so you're specifically it's 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.240