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Speaker 1: Book of Welcome Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is recording artist and performer Andy Graham.

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Speaker 1: How are you, Dad? I'm good. You know you got

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Speaker 1: up to get a period. I wanted to have drinks here.

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Speaker 1: I saw on the back of your jacket it said

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Speaker 1: reckless optimists. Is that how you see yourself? That's kind

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Speaker 1: of where where I'm at right now. I like that.

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Speaker 1: I love the idea of it being like a rebellion. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well there's a there's a couple of things. There's a

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Speaker 1: rebellion and optimists. Were you always an optimist? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: think I was kind of like I think I came

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Speaker 1: out this way. Well, I mean that makes it easier

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Speaker 1: in a business where it's almost impossible to succeed. Impossible,

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Speaker 1: stupid exactly. So do you come from a family of optimists?

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Speaker 1: I do? You know? My My dad as a children's singer.

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Speaker 1: His name is Greg Grammer, unbelievable Grammy nominated child a

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Speaker 1: singer We lost to Mr Rogers compilation album a while back. Um,

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Speaker 1: and my mother helped him write the songs. So I

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Speaker 1: grew up around um Yeah, a lot like a lot

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Speaker 1: of like good vibes and songwriting. I have to ask, Okay,

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Speaker 1: is Gramm or the original name or did they change

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Speaker 1: that for the act? No real name, real name? Do

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Speaker 1: you have any idea of the derivation of them? Uh? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's German? Okay. Uh so you were discovered

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Speaker 1: busting Yeah. Man. Well, first I want to say that

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Speaker 1: you are a fascinating figure to me, and I'm a

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Speaker 1: huge fan of yours. My wife when we was probably

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Speaker 1: ten years ago, my wife was interning at Warner Records,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, Oh, you have to get that. You

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Speaker 1: have to listen to this. I mean, you have to

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Speaker 1: subscribe to the Lessets letter because he's like the he's

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Speaker 1: got the pulse. And so we were both like all right,

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Speaker 1: and we just I've been reading you ever since, and

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Speaker 1: I find you really really interesting and I love the

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Speaker 1: voice of like you have this sense that you just

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Speaker 1: don't care what anyone else thinks. Is that true? Well? No,

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Speaker 1: you know, yes, but that's true. I Mean there are

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Speaker 1: a couple of things there. There's a Bob Dylan line

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Speaker 1: to live outside the law. You must be honest, you know,

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Speaker 1: and so if you take the money, you're compromised, you know.

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Speaker 1: So if you don't take the money, you can say

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Speaker 1: whatever you say. And at this point I still occasionally

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Speaker 1: get people emailed me a little bit more than occasionally.

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Speaker 1: You don't wanting to do a trade out like hype that,

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Speaker 1: and I say, you know, I don't do that. And

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Speaker 1: the other thing is people don't understand the game, which

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Speaker 1: is is someone he gives you something and you burn them.

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Speaker 1: That just burns the relationship. You're just done, So you

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Speaker 1: can't do that. But I think this is very similar

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Speaker 1: to the election we have. I'm trying to come from

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Speaker 1: the vision of reality. Frequently, everybody knows reality, but nobody

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Speaker 1: speaks it, so therefore I'm saying it. And certainly we

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Speaker 1: had all this technological revolution and the music business was

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Speaker 1: scnary in the coal mine, and it's fascinating to watch

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Speaker 1: the television and movie business still wrestling with that after

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Speaker 1: they could look back at the turmoil we went through.

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Speaker 1: So yes, you know, you might be the only critic

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Speaker 1: a critic or now I don't really but I don't

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Speaker 1: have a big term problem with the term. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: one of the only ones that I that I will

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Speaker 1: actually check in on when you say when you say stuff,

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Speaker 1: and I don't always agree with you, but I know

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Speaker 1: that you are coming from a very sincere, honest place,

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Speaker 1: and that's dope. Man. Well that's what that's really great.

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Speaker 1: You know, I said, you know, I may not agree

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Speaker 1: with you, but I know that's really your opinion. But

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Speaker 1: in a world where that's kind of rare, I congratulate,

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Speaker 1: you know, as I say, that's what the music used

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Speaker 1: to be. Uh. It used to be in the sixties

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Speaker 1: and early seventies in America for getting inherited wealth. In Europe,

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Speaker 1: a musician was as wealthy as anybody in America and

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Speaker 1: therefore what we'd call the rock star lifestyle, which has

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Speaker 1: not been taken over by bankers and people. It was like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, I mean the famous thing was, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: wrecked the hotel room, our road manager shows up with

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Speaker 1: a roll of hundreds and we move on. It's like, uh,

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Speaker 1: And then you know, I'm not necessarily uh in favor

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Speaker 1: of some of this behavior. But there's a famous story.

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Speaker 1: God time goes back and you're young in the mid

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Speaker 1: seventies seventy five, I believe where Neil Young and Steven

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Speaker 1: still has did an album or may run. They had

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Speaker 1: a tour planned. Neil Young famously to this day goes

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Speaker 1: into his sort of modified Winnebago and Stephen Stills went

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Speaker 1: down first, and Neil Young cinema uh telling me, said,

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel right. I'm not doing it okay, whereas everybody says, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm working hard, you know, because that's what I'm supposed

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Speaker 1: to do. And I think that's a problem we have

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Speaker 1: in the music business now. First and foremost of the

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Speaker 1: music business now, people are either very successful, there's not

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Speaker 1: much of the middle class, okay, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people on the lower end. Bitch. There's two kinds of

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Speaker 1: people that bitch. They're the people who were pissed that

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Speaker 1: they missed out on the glory days of the major labels, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: who probably do to have the talent. And then the

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Speaker 1: people were the beneficiaries of that. And when we came

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Speaker 1: to the internet, we found out people didn't really want

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Speaker 1: to listen to their music that much. Yeah, okay, so

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Speaker 1: we have these I want to disagree with the middle class.

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Speaker 1: You think there's no middle class. I feel like that

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Speaker 1: these days get you. Wait, wait, wait, wait, let's define

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Speaker 1: middle class. Middle class to me means that you are

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Speaker 1: a musician that gets to make their own music, and

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Speaker 1: you make enough money to live comfortably. Okay, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I hate to put metrics on it, but I will

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Speaker 1: you that middle class musician. How many tickets does that

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Speaker 1: person sell as they tour? I mean there are people

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Speaker 1: that I think that are middle class that can sell

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Speaker 1: thousand tickets. Thousand tickets is a real is real number.

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Speaker 1: How low would it go when you still consider them

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Speaker 1: to be middle class? I guess it depends. If we're

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Speaker 1: just talking money, then you could sell three hundred. But

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Speaker 1: if you're a sinc beast, then like your middle class. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think they're It's kind of it looks like the

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Speaker 1: country at large. We still have a middle class, but

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Speaker 1: it is not the dominant bubble. It's more lower middle class.

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Speaker 1: I do not have a problem with people. The problem

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Speaker 1: becomes that a lot of the people you're referencing who

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Speaker 1: have a have fans, have a career, don't stop complaining

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Speaker 1: that they're not more successful. If the people were saying

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Speaker 1: this is what I do and this is who I am, great,

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Speaker 1: I mean. On the other end, I did Folk Alliance,

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Speaker 1: which is actually a fascinating organization. This goes back about

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Speaker 1: seven or eight years ago and I'm talking and a

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Speaker 1: guy said, uh, are you gonna tell me? I forget.

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Speaker 1: The term was sort of like a middle class musician.

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Speaker 1: I know, how much do you make in a year?

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Speaker 1: He goes, I grows ten thousand dollars. I think you know,

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Speaker 1: this guy's in his own world. Okay, so you know,

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Speaker 1: but it used to be very different. Going back from

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Speaker 1: my original point, it used to be the threshold was

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Speaker 1: getting a major your label deal. There were six major

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Speaker 1: companies up in god the nineties when he started getting consolidation.

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Speaker 1: That those companies, unlike today, usually would stay with you,

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Speaker 1: especially Warner Brothers for five records, and therefore you would

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Speaker 1: not only you you got their money, and you also

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Speaker 1: got their publicity and hopefully some radio play such that

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Speaker 1: people became aware of you. And if it ended, you

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Speaker 1: still had something. I mean, I'm gonna get into dangerous territory.

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Speaker 1: Go there. Anyway. There's this act Amy Man. She had

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Speaker 1: a hit with Till Tuesday on Columbia of Voices carry

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Speaker 1: I love that, Okay. Then she was a critics Darling forever. Okay.

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Speaker 1: When the label money dried up, it turns out there

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Speaker 1: was a limited number of Amy Man fans, not judging

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Speaker 1: the music whatsoever. But she was supported by the system.

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Speaker 1: Everybody who was involved prior to the Internet. They're still bitching.

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Speaker 1: I think this has killed rock music because they keep

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Speaker 1: telling their fans don't stream, and that's where all that's

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Speaker 1: where all the action is. But I do believe going back. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there are some people who are beneficiaries of that who

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Speaker 1: are complaining they're not making money today. But the truth

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Speaker 1: is not that many people want to listen to their music.

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Speaker 1: But there's also a number of people who say, God,

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Speaker 1: I want to suck at the major label tent. I

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Speaker 1: wish that I had all this money, which is not

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Speaker 1: how they do it any They don't do that anymore.

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Speaker 1: My question to you is what's the net gain or

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Speaker 1: loss of having a small amount of people they get

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about, or a large amount of people

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Speaker 1: they get uh freaking distribution. Okay, for let's look at

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Speaker 1: it from the consumer end. Yeah, the turn of the

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Speaker 1: century and Internet, everybody was involved who had success previously

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Speaker 1: said oh, there's gonna be no money in music, no

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Speaker 1: one's gonna make music. Needles say they were totally wrong.

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Speaker 1: The opposite happened. Okay, the barrier to entry is essentially

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Speaker 1: non existent. You can make a song on garage band

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Speaker 1: today for no money if you have a computer, and

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Speaker 1: you can upload it to a service that will put

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Speaker 1: it on the streaming services, and then you'll spam everybody saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: you gotta listen to my stuff. Okay. So if you

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Speaker 1: are on the consumer end, it is almost the scene

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Speaker 1: is almost incomprehensible because if you go back to where

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Speaker 1: you started, you have a lot of bullshit. You have

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Speaker 1: the labels saying, you know, this is what bothers me

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Speaker 1: label say everything we put out is great, which is untrue.

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Speaker 1: Sure most of them. If you say this is the

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Speaker 1: one thing, listen to this great, okay, but there are

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Speaker 1: so many things. If I go through the Spotify top fifty,

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Speaker 1: first of all, you go to through the U S

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Speaker 1: Top fifties, mostly hip hop, some pop. Okay. Uh, you

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Speaker 1: might find one or two songs that surprise you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe exactly. I'm glad you said that. But then you

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Speaker 1: gotta go through all the other genres. You gotta go

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Speaker 1: through country, you gotta go through an electronic. The scene

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Speaker 1: is overwhelming such that, uh, you discover something and you

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Speaker 1: say to yourself, am I the only person who's listening

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Speaker 1: to this. Okay, So we're looking for some community. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I'll give you an example with the movies. It used

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Speaker 1: to be until about two thousand three, two thousand five,

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Speaker 1: boomers would go out to the movies because that would

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Speaker 1: give him a point of commonality when they hung together.

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Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, everybody realized we're not making

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Speaker 1: our kind of movies and they stopped going. Now it's television.

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Speaker 1: But even television, you know, you can't talk music when

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Speaker 1: you get together people because no one's listening to the

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Speaker 1: same thing. And then you get the BS from the

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Speaker 1: media industrial complex saying hip hop, it's hip hop whatever.

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Speaker 1: So if you're not listening to hip hop, you don't count. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not. I don't want to make it about

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Speaker 1: hip hop. What I want to make it is never

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Speaker 1: in the history recorded music, certainly in my lifetime. Uh

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Speaker 1: has the big been so small? Yes, it used to be.

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Speaker 1: If you had to hit, everybody knew it. They may

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Speaker 1: not like it, Okay, Taylor Swift, you know one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest acts. You know, if you go back two

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Speaker 1: albums ago, whatever it's called, the average person is aware of. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we are never ever getting back together, but they can't

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Speaker 1: sing any of the other songs, so no one has

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Speaker 1: that reach. So my point once again is is someone

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Speaker 1: cobbles together a living. I have no problem with it.

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Speaker 1: I think that's great, okay, But frequently those people are

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Speaker 1: not happy where they are and they're bitching. And secondly,

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Speaker 1: as a consumer, we're just overwhelmed. I would agree with

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Speaker 1: the consumer thing that we're overwhelmed and that there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that are not being served by this

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Speaker 1: current situation. There's so much attention being left on the table.

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Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of people that like the

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Speaker 1: style of music that I make, and it is my

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Speaker 1: job to try and figure out how the hell do

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Speaker 1: I get to you right now? Because the modes to

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Speaker 1: get there are not as big or similar to what

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Speaker 1: they've been, So how do you do it? Um? You know,

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Speaker 1: right now, there's like a big push towards what I

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Speaker 1: would think is kind of what I've read you say

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Speaker 1: as well. It's like, I think it's less about trying

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Speaker 1: to take over the world and trying to build your niche,

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Speaker 1: Like everyone has their own niche, so I think it's

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Speaker 1: tripling down on specifically what you do that may not

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Speaker 1: have worked well, you know that artistically, that usually is

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Speaker 1: how you get to something good anyway, is by just

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Speaker 1: being like, all right, this is my thing. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: triple down on this. I'm gonna try this, take risks here,

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Speaker 1: um and then see all see the modes that used

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Speaker 1: to be the big win as just another piece. You know.

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Speaker 1: I had a viral video on Facebook this year that

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Speaker 1: was like maybe the driving factor of my career I had.

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Speaker 1: I went and played on Good Morning America. It was

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Speaker 1: to Today's show awesome, and then then and then right

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Speaker 1: after I went to this classroom was called PS twenty

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Speaker 1: two and I sang my song Don't give Up on

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Speaker 1: Me with a bunch of kids that had learned it,

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Speaker 1: and that thing went insane. And I went on tour

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Speaker 1: and the number one thing I heard was of new

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Speaker 1: fans was like, oh man, I saw your video on Facebook.

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Speaker 1: That's why I'm here. Okay, I'm gonna ask and do

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Speaker 1: you know how many people viewed that video? I think

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Speaker 1: it's like sixty million. Was it completely viral or did

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Speaker 1: you work it? It started completely viral? And then uh,

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Speaker 1: this company crowd Surf that I work with, then they

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Speaker 1: start like it's kind of honestly, like a label. Once

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Speaker 1: they see they have something, then you start going like whoa,

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Speaker 1: And that was something I knew was viral, and I

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Speaker 1: reached out to every one of my friends. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was this thing that it used to be, like

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Speaker 1: promoting singles. It's kind of dead now, but in the

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Speaker 1: early stages of when social media was happening, you have

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Speaker 1: artists that would be like, go check out my friend's song.

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Speaker 1: It was like a season where that happened, and then

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Speaker 1: we all fucking hated it. Right, well, that's what I

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Speaker 1: was video. Oh my god, Dave, you don't text me

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Speaker 1: Gangham style, and then everybody tried to have a viral video.

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Speaker 1: The last one was Bouer of the Harlem Shake and people,

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Speaker 1: this is manipulated, and then we don't have that kind

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Speaker 1: of video anyway. Yeah, they do on TikTok still differ

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Speaker 1: with you, but the full different universe. You go there, yea,

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Speaker 1: he walked in there and around. Well, but this is

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Speaker 1: just like rock band Guitar Hero because certainly Little nas

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Speaker 1: X was boosted and made on TikTok Okay, so now

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Speaker 1: everybody says, oh, it's all about TikTok and they're gonna

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Speaker 1: get and they're gonna burn it out. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: TikTok the platform will necessarily burn out, but as a

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Speaker 1: vehicle to break records, you know, it's really more about

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Speaker 1: the participants in the music on that site anyway. So

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Speaker 1: or what we say is what we're saying, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of interesting, is like, you know, I'm good friends

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Speaker 1: with the need to Breathe guys. You don't need to Breathe. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't. They're this band. I had him on my podcast.

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Speaker 1: No he knows who they are, except they sell like

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Speaker 1: nine thousand tickets shows and you're like, slow, what are

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Speaker 1: you talk so fill out red rocks like two nights

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Speaker 1: in a row. Okay, wait, the name of the act.

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Speaker 1: It's called need to Breathe. Oh, need to Breathe. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I heard it is a need to Breathe ground No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I just need to breathe. And what what he said

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Speaker 1: what was so cool is he's like there was a

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Speaker 1: point where we were like, we don't care about anyone

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Speaker 1: except the fan that's coming to my show. I don't

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Speaker 1: care about radio, I don't care about anything else except

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Speaker 1: for like, I just want to over deliver for you,

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Speaker 1: and we've done that over and over again, and now

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Speaker 1: we have this huge base and whether people know who

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Speaker 1: we are or not, we don't care. How many acts

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Speaker 1: survived outside of the golden era that you're speaking of,

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Speaker 1: were radio actually, like when when labels mattered more than ever?

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Speaker 1: In radio matter more than ever? Did you even have

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Speaker 1: a shot is closed? And you don't have need to breathe? Right? Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: the fascinating thing, of course, this need to breathe is

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Speaker 1: existing out of the mindset of the media industrial complex.

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Speaker 1: They have no slot to fit that in talking about

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Speaker 1: forgetting even a label hyping it. But the media, the

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Speaker 1: media says, we listened at the we look at the charts,

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Speaker 1: we get our information from the labels. That's all that exists.

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Speaker 1: And your point is well taken that they're all these

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Speaker 1: other acts. So I'm I'm now like almost ten years

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Speaker 1: into my career. I have a really awesome loyal fan

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Speaker 1: base that like specifically what I do, and I'm like, yes,

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Speaker 1: I definitely have a lot of relationship at radio and

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Speaker 1: put so much energy into that and I will continue

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Speaker 1: to do that. But also, like, man, how do you exist? What?

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Speaker 1: What is the forest? When you leave and go in

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Speaker 1: your own zone and just start creating. Okay, let's let's

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Speaker 1: go a little bit slower. Before you went on the

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Speaker 1: Today's Show. Yeah, what was your thought? We that song? Um?

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Speaker 1: One of my best friends that I was roommate with

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Speaker 1: for a while, he had a movie that came out.

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Speaker 1: It was a big hit this year, called five ft Apart,

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Speaker 1: and he needed a song and I kept sending them

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Speaker 1: songs and this one worked first movie. How many song

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Speaker 1: the three? Not many, but I'd send him on. He's like,

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Speaker 1: just just to get into the process. Yet, okay, how

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Speaker 1: long after he said he he brought you? You didn't

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Speaker 1: pitch him? Correct, No, he texted we're like best friends.

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Speaker 1: He texted, I need a song. How long after he

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Speaker 1: said he said, you know there's this other big name

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Speaker 1: artist that they're trying that they want me to use

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Speaker 1: and he's charging Mad Doe. Okay, a song that can

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Speaker 1: beat his song and you don't have to charge me

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Speaker 1: like crazy money. Yet? Okay? How long after he texted

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Speaker 1: you did you start to write? I had written it

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Speaker 1: that week. It was like perfect, So that song you'd

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Speaker 1: already written. I wrote it that week and then I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, I just wrote this one, what do

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Speaker 1: you think of this one? And then it worked perfectly

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Speaker 1: and that came out in the movie and reacted gang

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Speaker 1: but a little bit, a little bit slower the song

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Speaker 1: tell me the process of the development of the song.

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Speaker 1: The song called Don't give up on Me, I could

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Speaker 1: really I know that every that now I'm I'm a

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Speaker 1: big enough thing that needs like a lot of feeding.

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Speaker 1: I have, like you know, my band as retainers. There's

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Speaker 1: all this ship. Everybody's like your band is on retainer,

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Speaker 1: some of some of them arias fifty two weeks a year, yes,

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Speaker 1: versions of that. So that plus just like it's just

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Speaker 1: a big thing now to move my machine forward. So

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Speaker 1: I need like any business. But it's a little bit

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Speaker 1: weird the music business because you're trying to find unicorns.

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Speaker 1: It's like really freaking hard to find it, especially in

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Speaker 1: this day and age. And so I was really feeling

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Speaker 1: stressed because I can. I'm having me and my manager,

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Speaker 1: we'll have a pretty good gut about like we don't

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Speaker 1: have the magic that we need. You know. There's another

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Speaker 1: story about my second album. We we released the album.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're having an album released party. We're

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Speaker 1: playing everybody of the songs and then we leave. My

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Speaker 1: managers like he's a lot like you just like straightforward.

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Speaker 1: This can be blunt. Sometimes he's like, we don't have

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Speaker 1: the thing we need, and I know I've written a

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Speaker 1: hundred songs for that album, and then we went and

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Speaker 1: wrote a hundred and one was Honey I'm Good. So

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Speaker 1: like we know, just to slow down. You had the

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Speaker 1: album listening party, and then you did not release that

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Speaker 1: album in that form? No, how long after did you

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Speaker 1: have the final album? But we just needed as soon

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Speaker 1: as we wrote that song, we just added we just

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Speaker 1: how long after that? I wasn't like printed, it was

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Speaker 1: like get together. How long after that did you write

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Speaker 1: the song? Next day? Okay? Yeah, okay, So this is

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Speaker 1: like you may or may not know this story. Bruce

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Speaker 1: Springsteen manager saying I'm born in the USA, saying we

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Speaker 1: didn't have a hit, and he immediately wrote Dancing in

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Speaker 1: the Dark exactly so, And it's kind of funny because

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Speaker 1: your manager goes like we need it, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: I just wrote a hundred, so I guess I'll write

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Speaker 1: another one. I hate you, okay, but when you wrote

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Speaker 1: Honey I'm Good, walk us through the process of how

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Speaker 1: you did that. So it was me and my great

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Speaker 1: friend Nolan's pipe and it was just the two of

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Speaker 1: us and we got together, uh and we you know,

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Speaker 1: like most great songs came out in like two hours.

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Speaker 1: But a couple of questions, what percentage of your songs

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Speaker 1: written solo or what percentage with other people? Most of

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Speaker 1: them at this part, at this point are with other people.

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Speaker 1: And I think the reason that is is once I

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Speaker 1: got really settled in my point of view, I started

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Speaker 1: to see immense value of co writing. Just go a

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Speaker 1: little deeper until you know your point of view. Co

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Speaker 1: writing can be a little dicey because you don't know

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Speaker 1: what you're gonna say, so then words start get thrown

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Speaker 1: like lines are getting thrown around. Point of view is

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Speaker 1: being thrown around, and if you're not set on what

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Speaker 1: you're here to bring, then it can be you can

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Speaker 1: you know, I have a couple of songs that if

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Speaker 1: when I look back, I'm like, oh, that's not really

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Speaker 1: my point of view necessarily, and I don't really stand

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Speaker 1: behind that. But once you know, you like I know

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Speaker 1: who I am, I know what I'm about, I know

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Speaker 1: what I want to sing about, then it's like, go

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Speaker 1: get the best melody person you've ever met. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: get the first the best track guy, and let me

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Speaker 1: help direct this thing and and get myself amplified as

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Speaker 1: great as I can be. Okay, so you're specifically it's

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Speaker 1: just not some guy who's had hits. You're looking for

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Speaker 1: a specific role reality what I And then you learn

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Speaker 1: so now album you know, I'm writing for whatever my

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Speaker 1: next album is. And I've had all these, you know,

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Speaker 1: four albums of being next to some of the most

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Speaker 1: incredible melody people in the world. You'd be stupid if

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Speaker 1: you don't learn something of that. Oh man, you learn

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Speaker 1: all these sweet tricks about you know. For me, I

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Speaker 1: was just going off of feel. I had no sense that, like,

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Speaker 1: your highest notes should probably be in in the chorus,

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Speaker 1: and if it's not, then you better have a good

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Speaker 1: freaking reason why it's not. A lot of like rhythmic

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Speaker 1: things of like you should probably have your cadence in

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Speaker 1: your precorus, be a different rhythm than the hook, because

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Speaker 1: that's what makes it pop. Like little tricks that that

416
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Speaker 1: seem basic. But when they started becoming party repertoire, undeniably,

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Speaker 1: your songs are just better. You just get better. This

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Speaker 1: was something I learned at the Street Uh Street perform

419
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Speaker 1: in Santa Monica was this idea that art is kind

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Speaker 1: of subjective when it's a when it's good, everybody responds, No,

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Speaker 1: I mean I go through there's people. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: famous line about William Goldman about the movie business. No

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Speaker 1: one knows anything. But it's funny you said this because

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Speaker 1: I didn't argue with someone who thinks he's a real artist.

425
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: When you're a real artist, you know when you create

426
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: an eleven, you know you cannot do it that often,

427
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: but when you do it, you know, And I guess

428
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: what's interesting is now, So there's that I was on

429
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: the street, and I know when you know I'm playing

430
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: this song, nobody cares strangers. It's really important. If anybody's listening,

431
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 1: that's a starting musician. Please stop playing for your family,

432
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 1: Go play for people that do not care about you,

433
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: because if you can turn them now, you have something

434
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 1: and for the most part, you don't like just by averages,

435
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: you don't have something that a stranger cares about. And

436
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 1: if you're willing to be on the street for four

437
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 1: years and find fifteen minutes over four years, that for

438
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: the most part, every person will care about. Then you

439
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 1: have something. Okay, I want to go back to the thread.

440
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: So just working our way back. You were with the

441
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 1: writing partner and you did, honey, I'm good, just going

442
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 1: sub When you work with these third parties, to what

443
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: degree do you say, uh huh or what do you know?

444
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: Not my vision? Oh? Actually yeah, people bring in ideas

445
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: or you're coming up with it on the spot. And

446
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: for the most part, you know, when you're when you're

447
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: starting to co write, you're finding the people that work

448
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 1: well with you. So there are really weird pairings that

449
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: just don't work at all and you leave and you

450
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: go like that. But since you are the artists, yeah, okay,

451
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: and you're talking about learning from these people, to what

452
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: degree is it just vacuuming information in melodically vacuuming? Okay?

453
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 1: Early on? Oh my god, why are you doing that?

454
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: How is that happening? Holy sh it, this is great.

455
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: That's something I never would have done. Teach me, teach me,

456
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: teach me point of view. I'm always a little bit

457
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: more lyric first, So that is like someone wos say

458
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: something like I'd never say that, So no, let's try

459
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: something else. Okay. So uh, honey, I'm good. You need

460
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: something for the uh, for the album to make it,

461
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: to have that one track. Was there a motivation in

462
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 1: retrospect that you felt at that time that helped create

463
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: a hit that you don't get just writing every day. No,

464
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: it just came out. It could have been the third song.

465
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: You could have been the third one. The truth is, though,

466
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: that a lot of people will not write a hundred

467
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: and one because they just won't, because they don't have

468
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: the effort. They believe that the people on the other

469
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: end don't know what a hit is. No, they no, No,

470
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 1: it's it's strictly disciplined. I don't think that the average artist,

471
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: especially songwriters, is what I preach is that if you

472
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: write a hundred songs, you're gonna be way better off

473
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: than if you wrote they're just just to be clear,

474
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: are we talking about like being on the third three promenade?

475
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: Are we're just talking about the experience getting your chops

476
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: up or to you gotta constantly would shed to find

477
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: you know the gold? Yeah? I think the people stop

478
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: way too early. Now. I come from song that's like

479
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: my that's my sword that I bring. I'm not like

480
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: extremely good looking. I'm not gonna make a video that

481
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: people are gonna watch a million times because like, that

482
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: guy's hot. So I knew that pretty early on. It

483
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: was like my words are gonna be my thing. So

484
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: maybe I care more about it than others, but I

485
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: do think that was There's this saying, oh I was

486
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: with um, I wrote a song with it. I think

487
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: it's Red, Uh is it? Who's the country artist that's

488
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: like huge red something? Red Atkins? Right? You don't know

489
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: Thomas Thomas rhet so his dad, Red Atkins. I wrote

490
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: a song with him, and he wrote a song with

491
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: the dad. It was great. How did that come to?

492
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: The song is terrible, but the conversation was unbelievable. How

493
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: did you get hooked up with him? Someone said he

494
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: was in town and someone like met up with. My

495
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: manager was like, yeah, you guys got like nine And

496
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, how do you have so many

497
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: number ones? And he's like it's usually about one out

498
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: of every hundred. So it's like, you know, he goes,

499
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: if you write five songs, you've got five great songs.

500
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: If you write fifty songs, you've got two great songs.

501
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: If you write a hundred songs, you've got one that's

502
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: really good and that seems to be how this goes

503
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: in my understanding. Okay, just to go back also a

504
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 1: little bit slower. How often do you write songs? Every day?

505
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: Every day? Pretty much every day that I'm home that

506
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: I'm not touring, Like today, I'm gonna leave here and

507
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: gonna I've written three this week? Okay? So do you

508
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: keep a notebook of phrases and other inspiration you do? Yeah?

509
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: What kind of notes would you make? Um? Yeah, I

510
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: have like a it's it's writing and it's to me,

511
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: concepts are the things that are the hardest to find.

512
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: So sometimes it's like a line, but more often than not,

513
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: it's what is? What are we all experiencing? That? It is?

514
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: Just needs to be said? And anytime I see that

515
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: or feel that, I'll just write that. Okay, can you

516
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: give me two examples? Um for let's see, sure, what

517
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: are here I got? Oh? I just saw you know

518
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: this idea. I have an idea that I might try

519
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 1: to write today about. You know, I lost my mom

520
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: ten years ago and so I'm about to have another

521
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: baby and that's gonna send me through a whole other

522
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: grief tail spin because it's all how many children do

523
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: you have. I have one girl right now, I'm about

524
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: to have another one. So the idea that around big events,

525
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 1: that's when I miss you. That's a good concept. Let's

526
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: do that. It's right there. Okay, okay, let's go back

527
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: to the movie song. So you've written this song before

528
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: you send it to him. Yeah, what is your belief

529
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: in the song? Do you believe this is a specific winner? Uh?

530
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: When I initially sent it to my manager, he cried

531
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: and and said this is amazing, and then we cooled

532
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 1: off on it because when you write a bunch sometimes

533
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 1: that's what happens. And uh so I sent it over

534
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: knowing that it had had a spike in our our

535
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: caring about it, but at the moment it was a

536
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: little bit cool. Yeah, okay, how long before you sent

537
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: it to your friend? Had you written it? Uh? Um? So,

538
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: I think what happened is I sent it and then

539
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 1: that process took a while. Still so my yes, my

540
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: manager liked it, and then he said he wanted it,

541
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: and then it was like over a long period of time,

542
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 1: and then probably about a month too later, things started

543
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: to heat up like, oh my god, I think we're

544
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: gonna use this and then we wanted to see how

545
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: it reacted, and then we saw that it started to

546
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: really react, and that's when it became a single. Okay,

547
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: this was before or after the movie came out. After

548
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: the movie okay, so you you sent it to him.

549
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: How long after that did the movie come out? Probably

550
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: at least two or three months. Oh, that's pretty quick.

551
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: It's fast. It was the end. It was near the end. Okay,

552
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: so it's in the movie. How do you know it's

553
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: reacting because you can see it on all the Spotify data,

554
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: Like immediately it's getting the movie gets released everywhere, and

555
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: then this song spikes everywhere that it gets released. Now,

556
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: did your label specifically pitch it to Spotify and say

557
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: this is a winner, it's gonna be in a movie.

558
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: They did, and he said put it in a good playlist.

559
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: They saw it reacted. Okay, so now it's reacting. Tell

560
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: me the next thing. It's reacting. Um so now I

561
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: now I run around the world and do radio promo

562
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 1: in different different countries and uh, and then we go

563
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: on to today's show and so it's reacting. You have

564
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: any idea how many streams it out on Spotify before

565
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: you push the button I don't remember exactly, but millions, okay,

566
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: but not fifty million, not fifty millions okay. So also,

567
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that's still kind of

568
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: a silly way to do it, but when you go

569
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: perform on Today's Show or any of these you know,

570
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: Good Morning Americas something like that, the ones that are hits,

571
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: if they spike somewhere, they always do. So this one

572
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: we did it, and then we saw immediately it was

573
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: like the number one on pop and so on the iTunes,

574
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: which is like an old way to look at it,

575
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: but it's still just like, right, well, that's that's the

576
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,479
Speaker 1: demo for the Today Show. Yeah, so you're like, oh,

577
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: this is this immediately hits or you get a call

578
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: that like serious, XM just played it without any promo.

579
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: You get these weird calls, you start to know what

580
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: a hit feels like. When you had a couple, you're like, ah,

581
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: there's things that are outside of me being able to

582
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: create that just start to happen. Um. And then so

583
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: once we had that, so the S curve is your label,

584
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: they said that, Okay, we have something here going back

585
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: to you know, it's in the movie. It's reacting on Spotify.

586
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: Then you're going around the world pitching it to radio

587
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: to what level of success, not you know, discouraging levels

588
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: of success. I don't want to go too much further

589
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: than like, what's when you've done it for as long

590
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: as I have and you have, you know how hard

591
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: it is to get the thing that makes people react.

592
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: When you have the hit and it doesn't go gang

593
00:30:53,400 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: as big as anything else, you're frustrated. So how many

594
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: radio shows, radio stations did you visit? So we went

595
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: to Mexico City, we went to Paris, we went to uh,

596
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: Germany and Poland, and it did really well in UM

597
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: Australia and it smashed in South Africa, and uh it's like,

598
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, now we're back to the drawing. Okay, but

599
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: you're mentioning all these foreign countries. To what degree? Were

600
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: you working in the US? In the US hard running

601
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: around two different you know. On Hottie Sea, I have

602
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: so many relationships. We've had a couple of big successes

603
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: at pop, but mostly it's been Hotta Sea has been

604
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: in my format. Okay, when you're on the Today Show,

605
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: where are you in the radio work? Are you basically starting?

606
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: Just starting? So we had the today show hit the

607
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: iTunes thing goes crazy, and then that day we put

608
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: up the Facebook thing and that starts to going, okay,

609
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: tell me the story of PS twenty two. So I

610
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: didn't know what it was, and I just go in

611
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: there and I tried to do it. Something about kids

612
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: singing don't give up on Me is especially impactful. So

613
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: we started and I started to sing it, and they're

614
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: really good. If you haven't got a chance see it,

615
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: they are amazing. So I just started to cry. So

616
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: the fourth take is me being able to get through

617
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: without crying because it's really sweet. Hearing like, I don't know,

618
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: eight year old singing don't give up on Me, You're

619
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: like shit. Um, so that thing starts to wait wait

620
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 1: who set that up? That was the label? Yeah? And

621
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,239
Speaker 1: just because I'm interested, were the kids prepared? Did they

622
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: know the song? When you show him, this guy he's

623
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: been doing this for a while and he's had you know,

624
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of other artists do it and they're all good,

625
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: but for some reason, this one is the one that

626
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: really like took it off. And then we got to

627
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: bring them. We did see an n Heroes and we

628
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: brought them all on stage in New York and it

629
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: was how many kids. It's like sixty kids. So I thought, okay,

630
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: I've seen the videos. So in any event you record it,

631
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: you see you're crying, so you must know we have

632
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: something yeah, but not anything like okay, I think we

633
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: have something like yeah, that's probably get like a hundred

634
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: thousand views, will be great. So then it's done. How

635
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: long after do you put it up on the internet.

636
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: I think like the next day, okay, primarily on Facebook.

637
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: So Facebook is where it really went nuts. These platforms

638
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: are so crazy, I know, that's what trying to say.

639
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: So I think it's got like three million on YouTube

640
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: and then it went sixty on because the share thing

641
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: on Facebook was wild for it. UM. But that was

642
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,239
Speaker 1: like a big, big, big win. That was my one

643
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: of my first big wind that didn't have anything to

644
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: do with UM radio or or standard music videos. Okay,

645
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: So after you had this giant success, did your label

646
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: go back and pitch radio? UM? So this is the thing.

647
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: It didn't do that great radio. But even after you

648
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: could say, hey, I got sixty yes. So this is

649
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: what you're telling me. You're you're telling me that your

650
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: radio research is telling you this is not a good song.

651
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: How how loud do I have to scream about this?

652
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: What are you insane? Who are you talking to? That?

653
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: A song that when you played on TV everybody gets it,

654
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: and then when you put a video up on Facebook,

655
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 1: everybody buys it. What are you talking about? And they

656
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: just beat against it? And then we couldn't get it

657
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: passed through. Okay. So if it has sixty million views

658
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: on Facebook, how many uh streams does it now have

659
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: on Spot? Question? Millions? Okay, So when did all this happen?

660
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 1: It's been it happened. I think it's about a year ago. Okay,

661
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: So let's go back to where we started. This is

662
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: your outside the traditional system. It's not driven by radio.

663
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: Well then what do you do? What's your viewpoint? Well,

664
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: what's cool is and different from me is I've I've

665
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: now have it? It is a hit. It's undeniably. It's

666
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: impacted my business, my bookings, all of the tickets, like everything.

667
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: That's what I want to know. Yeah, everything gets pushed

668
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: like a hit. Okay, so you have this success? Is

669
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: a tour already planned? Tours are no? No, the tour

670
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: is not planned yet. Okay, And are you turned into

671
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: don't give up on me to it real quick. Do

672
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,959
Speaker 1: you book larger rooms because you think, hey, we're gonna

673
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: get more people, because not necessarily we did. We kept

674
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: it pretty similar, but they did. They all did great, okay.

675
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: And that tour was in what kind of rooms? So

676
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: it went up to about you know, we hit three

677
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: thousand in some places, okay, and how many dates? And

678
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: what about the rest of the world? No, just us,

679
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: just us? Yeah? And so when did you when of

680
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: those dates stopped playing? That was we ended in last day?

681
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: It was like August something, okay, So where does that

682
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: leave you? That leads me now getting taking some time

683
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: for a new baby, which is great, and then just

684
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: coming up with new music. Okay, And let's go back

685
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: to you to the original dispoint of discussion, which is,

686
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: if you're not someone pushed by the machine, and you're

687
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: not someone on the Spotify top one, a top fifty,

688
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: whatever and that kind of music, we're talking about both

689
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: the audience but primarily the performer the headspace. You have

690
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: this giant success, okay, but everybody who was part of

691
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 1: it was aware of it, but the people outside were

692
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: completely unaware of it totally. So where does that leave

693
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: you as an artist emotionally. Well, what's weird is that

694
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: the life gets really long too. So It's what I

695
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 1: found is it wasn't like it just ever went away.

696
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: It's still doing weird things on the internet. It just

697
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: like popped up on a hundred iTunes thing again today,

698
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: just like keeps it. It's good. It just like keeps going.

699
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: It hits less longer. They just keep going, you know.

700
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: It like sink the ship out of everything. It was

701
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: on America's Top Talent on like the emotional moment, a

702
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: song like don't give up on Me. I think we'll

703
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: go for a really long time. It's like broad enough

704
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: with a big enough message. Okay, but but I'm really

705
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: interested in your headspace. Okay. In the old days, you

706
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: would have a top ten hit every it would be

707
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: on all the radio stations. You get a little certain

708
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: amount of TV play. Everyone would sort of be aware

709
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: of it, and you could say, as the maker or

710
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: someone involved in the business, we rang the bell. Okay,

711
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: we maxed it out. We did not ring the bell. Okay,

712
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: But the question, what do we know? The bell is

713
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: not as loud as it used to bate totally, So

714
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: where does this leave you? He said, Hey, listen, these

715
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: people love me, they watched the video. I'm selling more tickets.

716
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: But you know, it's not like I'm getting all this press.

717
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: It's not like, uh, you know, politicians are calling me up.

718
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: It's like, uh, are you satisfied? You can't ever be satisfied.

719
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: That's like, I mean, am I satisfied with? I definitely

720
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: think that it could have been bigger? Um, But it

721
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: also to me registered like I'm saying, I've been around

722
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 1: hits and so it felt and feels like a hit.

723
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: Let me put it. The only thing that I don't

724
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: see is is major radio success. But it still feels

725
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: like a hit. So what's weird is like, what you're

726
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: talking about is that this collective consciousness has been blown apart.

727
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: So too many different people say there say the collective

728
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: conscious was ten people. Right now, you blow that apart

729
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 1: to four of those people, it was a massive so

730
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: so to them and to private show people and to

731
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: everybody else and all the stuff I'm crushing right now.

732
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: It just means that the bell of the collective conscious

733
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: is nearly impossible at this point. And are you okay

734
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: with that? Yeah? Because that means that I can go

735
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: into I've now focused more on my niche. I think

736
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: everybody has to see themselves as your own niche. Are

737
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: you frustrated that other acts are bigger than you? Good question?

738
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: Not really, not like h I think what's cool about

739
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: the niche mindset is it allows you to be a

740
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: little more like, what am I here to do? I'm

741
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: not actually competing against you anymore because the chart is

742
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: kind of ridiculous. So let me go build my own

743
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: thing that is so good and so uh create so

744
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: much of a service to someone that they'd really miss

745
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: me if I was gone. Okay, you mentioned privates. How

746
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: many privates do you do? Um? You know, it varies.

747
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: We usually what's great about those that they let you

748
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 1: just like go out on a Saturday, play a gig

749
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: and then come home be with your family, you know,

750
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: especially over these seasons of uh baby and stuff. We'll

751
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 1: probably hit like twenty of those years. Okay, and let's

752
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: say you do that, you fly out on the jet,

753
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 1: you come back. How many people do you take uh about? Okay?

754
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: So it's relevant. I mean traditionally corporate privates pay well, sure,

755
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: but that's a that's a for one off that's pretty

756
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: expensive to get out there it's expensive. There's a lot

757
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: of people you know. To me, the idea of being

758
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: in DJ's like that sounds great. How the hell do

759
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: you do that? Oh yeah, I got a three backup singers.

760
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: Go to see a comedian who set out this is

761
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: like the best gig of all time. Maybe you'd come

762
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: with your own microphone, maybe you have a road man. Honestly,

763
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: this is what is really difficult for me about getting

764
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: outside of the country is to provide the show that

765
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: we know we have to get to Australia. We've done

766
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: it a couple of times or other place where things

767
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: are reacting. The cost doesn't make any sense. So to

768
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 1: what degree does the cost make it so you don't

769
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: even go? It's really hard. So where is it, you know,

770
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,919
Speaker 1: outside the United States? Where is your career? Man? We

771
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: we like we played some shows in the Philippines. We

772
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: do really well there. Australia has been great. We're trying

773
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to get over South Africa

774
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: because you don't give up me was like huge on

775
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: the pop stations there. Um. But yeah, there's like so

776
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: I think anyone probably in most businesses right now is

777
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 1: trying to figure out where to spend their time because

778
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: now all the jobs to some degree have been given

779
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: back to the artist of like, well, on your social media,

780
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: you could be the promo for this, you could be

781
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: the creative for this. You can like figure it all

782
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: out yourself, and you're just a little bit overwhelmed of like, Okay,

783
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: So then if the big bell is what we were

784
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: all used to go for, if that's not happening, then

785
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: there's like a thousand mini jobs that we could be doing.

786
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: Where do we spend our freaking time? And I feel

787
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: that way a little bit about countries outside of the

788
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: U S as well. Okay, you mentioned CrowdSurf was the

789
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: company that helped you tell me when they got involved

790
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: in what they did. They've been around since. Um, I think,

791
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure, but they're you know, they're through

792
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: the label that's one of the services provides, and they

793
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: help with like blowing up something that's already that's working.

794
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: They did it. I don't exactly I know that they are,

795
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: like they have a lot of different clients and they

796
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: have they have a good sense of who would like

797
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: the content that I gave, who would like that video?

798
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: So up where they posted it and then you know,

799
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 1: they were really good at like going up to different

800
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: places to get it posted, to get and get it shared.

801
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 1: Did you set up were they any other uh, intermediaries?

802
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: You don't remember exactly which one is now, Okay, So

803
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: how much have you worked overseas? Um? You know we've

804
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: done not a ton. You know we had initially we

805
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: didn't get great love from like Radio one, even on

806
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: the big songs. They wouldn't go in London, right, Yeah,

807
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: So okay, terms of your career, are you all in

808
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: this is it you're gonna do it till you die?

809
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: Or if it, you know, started going in a wrong

810
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: direction and you're playing house concerts, would you say, Um,

811
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: I'm not someone that even thinks that way, right, Like

812
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: the guy, Yeah, like the guy that goes to the

813
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: street and decides that that's a good place to start

814
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: that you know, it's pretty let's go back. It's tough

815
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: to like face. So you grow up where I grew

816
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: up in New York, New York City, No about our

817
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,439
Speaker 1: North New York City in the suburbs, what place called

818
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 1: Monroe would Bury, Okay, and how many kids in the family.

819
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: I had an older brother, what's doing he is a therapist.

820
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: He lives out here too, okay, and he's a therapist

821
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: back there. Um, no, he's he lives here. He's he's

822
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: a therapist. And like Whittier. So from the time you're born,

823
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,439
Speaker 1: your parents, your father's a children's performer and obviously that's

824
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: his only job, that's his job. Okay. He was the

825
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: middle class that we're talking about back then when it

826
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: was impossible what what kind of family did he come from?

827
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: That he became a children's performer, not that, but he

828
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: created him and my mom, you know, they saw a

829
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: need with my brother. They looked around and when he

830
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: was like two or something and said, there's not that

831
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: much good kids music, and so they just started writing

832
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: it and creating it. And he was working with a

833
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: group called the Lime Lighters, which I think used to

834
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: be friended by a guy named Glenn Yarboro if these names, yes, yes,

835
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: So that when he when he got out, then my

836
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: dad jumped in and was doing kind of the tail

837
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: end what you're also being at the tail end of

838
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: the of the line Lighters, playing casinos and other things

839
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: that weren't super lavish. And so from there it wasn't

840
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: he was trying to figure out what he wanted to

841
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 1: Just go back a little bit further, what kind of

842
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 1: situation did he grow up? And he grew up in uh,

843
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: you know, single mother and no real music around them. Okay, well,

844
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: then how did he get into music? He got in

845
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: through his his voices, unbelieving we got way better voice

846
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: than I do, and he sang in choir and then

847
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: he I was actually born in Los Angeles because him

848
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: and my mom tried to do his solo thing here.

849
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: Then they tried to do the sole thing in Nashville,

850
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: and they finally moved to New York and that's where

851
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 1: they started to do kids stuff. Okay, did he go

852
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,720
Speaker 1: to college? Yeah? Where do you go to wreckers? Okay?

853
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 1: So how long after Rutgers did he get in the

854
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: Lime Lighters? That's a good I'm terrible at dates. I

855
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: would imagine if did he have he didn't have six

856
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: se us in he I know him saying to me

857
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: when I turned thirty that he was like, imagine being

858
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: where you're at and still not having any success and

859
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: how hard that would be. And I'm like, yeah, that's okay.

860
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: So my point, did he have any day jobs between

861
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: Rutgers and being in the limelighters. I don't think so. Okay,

862
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: so he's always made it as a musician. Yeah, that

863
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: was important for me too. How did he meet your mother?

864
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,919
Speaker 1: They met through the behind faith. I'm so I'm a behig.

865
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: I don't have you ever heard of the high faith? Well,

866
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: I remember that people lived next to me in college

867
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: and seals and cross Yeah totally so. Um, they met

868
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: it up like the hot club. He went to Rutgers

869
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: first and then he went to Beloit College and that's

870
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: where they met. Okay, that's your mother was Beloit, Wisconsin

871
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 1: and Wisconsin. Okay. How does your faith affect your music

872
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: and outlook today? Um? Yeah, you know it really. I

873
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: have a song on my last album called Wishy Paine,

874
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: which is kind of like a cool idea comes from

875
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,879
Speaker 1: a high quote, which is this idea that you don't

876
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 1: grow without being put through struggle. So when you truly

877
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: believe that, then it's kind of a grounded optimism because

878
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 1: even when things are terrible or happening to you, that

879
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: if the sense is that they're there to you know,

880
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: build you into a different person, or to make you stronger,

881
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: or to add something to your personal arsenal that you

882
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: didn't have before. Uh, that's a grounded optimism to me.

883
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: So on my mean greet, we would have everybody come in,

884
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: about eighty people a night, and I would open and

885
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: I'd say, all right, I got the song. I wish

886
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: your pain is what we're gonna do. I will share

887
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: my deepest pain in my life, and I'll tell you

888
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: what it's turned, what it gave to me. I lost

889
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 1: my mother at really intense She's my rock, and uh,

890
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: it gave me an empathy that I just didn't have.

891
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: So I'm like an optimist. I'm like a puppy. I'll

892
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: come try to cheer you up no matter what's going on.

893
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: But that without having experienced pain is actually obnoxious because

894
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: somebody who's really going through it, you're telling me to

895
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: cheer up. I think you need to get away from me.

896
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: I kind of hate you. And so to be truly

897
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: crushed and to be this puppy person, to be the

898
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: quiet guy at the table for two years, just taking

899
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 1: in understanding how others could feel this low all the time,

900
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 1: that was really important for me. Now to go around

901
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: and be this optimist undeniably important piece to give to

902
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: the guy that's gonna go do what I do, so

903
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: I share that, and then people would and I'd be like, now,

904
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: I dare you this is my meet and greet, I

905
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: dare you to share with me the deepest thing has

906
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,879
Speaker 1: ever happened to you? That was difficult and what what

907
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: you got from it? Okay? There eighty people, they are

908
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: all eighty, go through not all of them, but a

909
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: lot of them. And it was how long does that take?

910
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: An hour? Okay? And you do this for every show? Yeah,

911
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: And this is more of me understanding, going back to

912
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 1: the niche thing of like, oh man, I had never

913
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: heard anyone do this. This is cool. I want to

914
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: I want to continue to find reasons or situations like

915
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: this that only I am doing and I love this,

916
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,479
Speaker 1: And that's what starts to build your little community out

917
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 1: to why you know, there was a lady who came

918
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: to you know, you're here these super fans, So she

919
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: came to like twenty of the right and even me,

920
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: I'm there, I'm like, I'm not that good. Listen, I'm good.

921
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: I create a really good experience that you're gonna have

922
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: a good time. But she didn't share in any of them.

923
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: And then on the on the last one she shared

924
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 1: and she she bought the meat and great for everyone.

925
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: That's a lot of money over two months, and she

926
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: goes the deepest issue that happened to me was that

927
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: my I had a little baby this year and he

928
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: passed away about two months, and so me and my

929
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: husband decided that we were gonna do whatever we need

930
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: to do to get through it. So we bought twenty

931
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: of your tickets. And I can't ever seen one. And

932
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, unbelievable. And she's like,

933
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: and I've learned so much, and I feel like I

934
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: have a new family of all the friends that I've made,

935
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: all the different shows. That's something that I've got. Who

936
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: is holy shit, who my audience, It's so sweet. My

937
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: audience are the people that, um, they're the happy friend

938
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: in the group. I don't know if you have one,

939
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 1: but they are looking for the their like the optimist.

940
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 1: They're the ones looking for the good in the situation.

941
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: A lot of times they're spiritual. They're not necessarily like

942
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: the hot girl, like the super hot girl that goes

943
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: to the club and for a little while when you're

944
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 1: coming up and you have different like you can see

945
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: you go. You play these radio shows and you do

946
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: different things other people. You're like, Oh, this group of

947
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: people over here is has this type of fan and

948
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: my type, my fan is just very sincere and genuine

949
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: and they love uh yeah, they love to look and

950
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: the look for the good percentage male female, probably seventy female,

951
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: but actually some male, honestly, so weirdly wide. And again

952
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: this was something that for a second there, I'm like,

953
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: am I not cool? Am I not cool? Because there's

954
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: literally eight to eighty here and that's what people say.

955
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: But what I like to sing about is uh is life.

956
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not singing just about um this like

957
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: slim teenage area. I sing about my daughter a lot.

958
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: I sing about life after death a lot. I sing

959
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,919
Speaker 1: about tons of just like universal life things. And so

960
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, I opened for a band called Trained for

961
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: a while and I saw similar with them as well.

962
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: Was that it's just this huge span, you know. Okay,

963
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: so to what degree are you are practicing behind um?

964
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: Pretty pretty intensely? You know? So I was about you.

965
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: You don't, uh, there's no drugs, there's no um no alcohol. Uh.

966
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: You know, I said it on the view one time.

967
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: It got like a whole thing. I didn't have sex,

968
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: four marriage, I'm like a pretty and then the bigger thing.

969
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,280
Speaker 1: Those are like the rules. Just to get into the rules.

970
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 1: So you have never had alcohol and you've never done drugs?

971
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: I definitely I've had alcohol probably like five times. Um,

972
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: but but my my practice, the way that I am

973
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: is not that right. So yeah, and how about group worship? Yeah,

974
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: so there's uh where it's the happy yamiha. It is

975
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: the Vihi holiday. Uh in these five days. I gave

976
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: my daughter some presidents last night. Yes, we have an

977
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: Yammi out party on Saturday that we're throwing. It's really cool.

978
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:29,720
Speaker 1: And uh I in general love creating space for your spirituality.

979
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: I think it's really important no matter how you do. Now,

980
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: is your wife a member of the faith? Yeah? Is

981
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: that how you met her? I met her in music school. Okay,

982
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: let's punt that for a second. Your mother died when

983
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: you were under what circumstances to dress cancer? Is your

984
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: father found a new part Yes, yes, she's great. And

985
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: are they married? They're married? Okay? Uh So you are

986
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: growing up? You a good student? Bad student? Good? Okay?

987
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: And are you someone who is a member of the

988
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: group not a member of the group. Leader, follower, um leader.

989
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: I was like a sports guy, super sports so, which

990
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: is kind of cool. I was talking with I just

991
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: got to go play in the NBA All Star Game

992
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: this morning, the celebrity events, and Uh, I brought my

993
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 1: high school basketball guy and we were just talking about

994
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: how that, how much that's affected me, how much I

995
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: bring to business that that like sports thing like when

996
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,280
Speaker 1: crush kill. I remember when I opened for big acts,

997
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: I would look out at the crowd and be like,

998
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: this third of you has to come with me or

999
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: I've lost Why am I here? I'm not I'm not

1000
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: just here to like play, I need to amass a

1001
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: lot of you. So I would usually start by running

1002
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: into the crowd up and down, because some all sometimes

1003
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 1: with opening acts you can just like tune out and

1004
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: like you cannot tune me out. You either like me

1005
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 1: or hate me. And I'd run up and down, remember

1006
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: Red Rocks, Like running up and down the thing and

1007
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: being out of breath, but being like, Okay, now that

1008
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: I've got your attention, this is my best song. Okay,

1009
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: Uh do any of the headliners resent that? I don't care?

1010
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 1: I mean there are stories of people saying, are you

1011
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: getting too much? Response, we're kicking you off the tour.

1012
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: Know what? The John Mayor has the best one. He

1013
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: says the opening act of three complains about the sound.

1014
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: The support tries to funk the headliner in the face,

1015
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 1: and the headliner says, you can't play louder than my hits.

1016
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: That is about the best description that I've seen. That's

1017
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: really good. I haven't heard that before. So, okay, you

1018
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: go to public school school, Okay, you graduate from high school.

1019
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,720
Speaker 1: Then what Then? I went to two years of acting

1020
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: at Binghamton, which is state in New York, and I

1021
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: quickly realized that acting is is saying other people's words,

1022
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: which is not what I want to do. I was

1023
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: writing songs in between, and that was what I was like, Yes,

1024
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: I want to write stuff. So then I moved out

1025
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: and went to Northbridge for music business and that was interesting.

1026
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, music business is such an interesting thing

1027
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: to try. And two things, he did you graduate? Okay,

1028
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: that's a very important thing, you know, Daniel Glass, he's

1029
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 1: got a labeled out class note. And I've told the

1030
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: story many times before in that when he was working

1031
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: at sp K. This was thirty years ago. This is

1032
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: just actually the introduction of Wilson Phillips. They played that weekend,

1033
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: but he said, you need three things to you work

1034
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: at SPK. You have to work have worked retail because

1035
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: that's where the transaction takes place. And you have to

1036
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: really want to work for s p K. And you

1037
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: have to have graduated from college. So I cornered him

1038
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 1: after I go, listen, you know, I I graduated from college,

1039
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 1: but you know so many people in this business legends

1040
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: if not, you know, why do you have to graduate

1041
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: from college? He goes, Oh, it's not about what you

1042
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: learned shows you can complete something. And I found that

1043
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 1: as being definitive. That's like almost like your point about

1044
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: a hundred songs pretty of FICI. So what was your

1045
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 1: experience of music business college? I don't want to trash talk.

1046
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: I think it was unfortunate timing trash talk I hit

1047
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: at the at napster time. I'm in college and you're

1048
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 1: you're reading, you're telling me how this is going, and

1049
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: everybody who's smart in the room is like, no, no,

1050
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: so what else he got? And and the person to

1051
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: do is teaching is like, I don't know, No one knows, okay,

1052
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,320
Speaker 1: And you're going to college in California. Your father paying

1053
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: for it? Yes, big deal, man, huge. You graduate from college,

1054
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: then what stay? Immediately go to third three Prominent, got

1055
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: my degree, walked across the stage, got my degree that

1056
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 1: already had all my stuff in my car, and just

1057
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:50,760
Speaker 1: took off the cap and went straight to the street. Okay,

1058
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: you would not go onto the street previously I had.

1059
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: I was already doing it. Okay, that's what I want

1060
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: to know. So you come out to North red Jew

1061
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: We're going to be an actor. Now you come out

1062
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,919
Speaker 1: from music. You're going to music as a school because

1063
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 1: you know you want to make it as a musician. Yeah,

1064
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: it's like the closest thing I can think of. I

1065
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: get in there and I realize I'm probably not gonna

1066
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: be the guy that's writing contracts, Like, that's not what

1067
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: I'm about. I'm I'm a songwriter. Um, but you're still

1068
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:20,919
Speaker 1: gonna make me do all this stuff. Okay, I don't

1069
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 1: remember any of that. They also made me take a UM.

1070
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: I was honestly the most ugly duckling at that school

1071
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 1: because I can't. I'm not like a shredder. I'm not

1072
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: going to sit at the piano and while you with

1073
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: my piano skills. My my main skill is finding what's

1074
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: universal to all of us and putting that in a

1075
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: way that's simple enough for you to get beautifully. And

1076
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 1: that is a weird one when you're trying to get

1077
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: it right, because it just means that you can't hang

1078
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: in jazz class with everybody and you're not like brilliant

1079
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: with contracts or or like my grades were. Okay, so

1080
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: I know that I always laughed at anyone who went

1081
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 1: to school with me. It's like that guy, you're giving

1082
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: it to that guy. Okay, that guy, come on. I

1083
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: saw his like recital one classical guitar. It was miserable,

1084
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: he was. I mean, I would go on Tuesday's were

1085
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: the worst day of my life because I'd have to

1086
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: go play Bach on this classic guitar and I would

1087
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: just butcher it, and the teacher would just you could

1088
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: see it on his face. He was so bummed out

1089
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: with me every time. It was a weird time. I

1090
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 1: was misunderstood. Okay, did any of those relationships have they

1091
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: maintained and paid? My wife, I met my previous guitar player. Um,

1092
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,919
Speaker 1: I met a bass player who I've worked with a lot. Okay,

1093
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: so a relationship wise, it's probably still worth it. Okay,

1094
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: your wife, what was she doing there? She was doing music.

1095
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: She wanted to do music industry, but for some reason

1096
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: they wouldn't let her in, and so she did a

1097
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: jazz vocal performance. But now she's she's going on to

1098
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: be like, she's great. She's this awesome songwriter right now

1099
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: crushing shoot sank back up for like Selina Gomez and

1100
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: Kobe Kulay and has two around the world. She graduates

1101
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: from north Ridge. What did she do? She went the

1102
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: route of songwriting as well, and but it happened at

1103
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: the same time as me starting to take off. Its

1104
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: kind of okay. So she didn't have to get a

1105
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: day job, no, okay, And well she did until we

1106
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: were married. And what was her day job? What did

1107
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: she do? She was a nanny for like some dope

1108
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: casting directors here and stuff. So okay. She's like a

1109
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: mover and a shaker. She's always making something happen. Okay.

1110
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: But the relationship started a north Ridge yeah, okay, So

1111
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: when did you start playing the third three promenade? It

1112
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: had to be probably around twenty some thirty six, about

1113
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: ten years ago, okay, prior to playing the third three

1114
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: promenade had you played out, Yeah, we're anywhere that anybody

1115
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: would let me. So I would. I mean in high school,

1116
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 1: I put together there was some website that had all

1117
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: the open mics, and I would just like plot it

1118
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: out very methodically, and I would drive in my mom's

1119
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: mini events as many open mics as possible, and I

1120
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 1: would drive to New York City. I remember, you know

1121
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: one of my favorite stories is it's called the Sidewalk

1122
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: Cafe and you get down there and the only the

1123
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: only way that you can go as you take a

1124
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 1: number and that's the number that you perform. And I

1125
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: got sixty four. That's like four and a half hours

1126
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: that terrible music. So this is what goes back to

1127
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: like discipline, and it's like it's not rocket science. If

1128
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: you're willing to just like take the barrage of four

1129
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: and a half hours of horrible music and then get

1130
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: up and do your best and have it not go

1131
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: good and then do it again, this is what it is. Okay,

1132
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 1: you play four and a half hours in what's the response.

1133
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: It's just so I'm sixty four. The only people left

1134
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: their sixty sixty seven. You tell a joke and everybody's like,

1135
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: just play the song, dude, Like enough, we all want

1136
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: to get out of here. But I got enough. I

1137
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 1: got enough. There two not be afraid of singing to

1138
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: no one anytime I see anybody singing to no one,

1139
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: and that that ship pumps me up. If we're like

1140
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: out somewhere and there's a bar. We were in Florida recently,

1141
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 1: and we're all like walking down the strip and there's

1142
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 1: some bar where no one's in there and there's a

1143
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: guy playing to no one. That is one of the

1144
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: most rebellious, badass moves that I think any musician can do,

1145
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: which is like I'm here no matter what. I'll do

1146
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: this no matter what. And that's what the street was

1147
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: for me. Can't But before we get to the street. Yeah,

1148
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: so you're playing these open mics in high school, you

1149
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: go to Binghamton. Are you still playing? So Binghamton, I'm

1150
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 1: playing for the drunk bus drop off, which is like

1151
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: they have these literally just school busses that will take

1152
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: everybody out. They all get bombed, and then they dropped

1153
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: them back off to go back to their dorms, and

1154
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: me and this other guy would set up right by

1155
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: the drunk bus drop off and we were stars from

1156
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: about two a m. To four am. Al was the goal.

1157
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: You're just trying to work, You're just working with your thing.

1158
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: You're like, well, okay, is this working? Is this not working?

1159
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: Is this like terrible? What have I got here? So

1160
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 1: I was playing loosely bad situations, but but still just

1161
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 1: like working on how am I? You know, I always say,

1162
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 1: how are you actually being of service? Because for the

1163
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: most part, when you start, the service is being given.

1164
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 1: The attention is being given to the person that's playing,

1165
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: and it takes a lot of work and craft to

1166
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 1: be able to switch that to where someone's watching you

1167
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: and they're getting from what you're doing, and that just

1168
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: takes hours and hours and hours and hours. Now, okay,

1169
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: when you're playing at the bus stop, guitar case open,

1170
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: looking for change, yeah, but not hopeful. Okay, but you're

1171
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 1: going to school for acting? Yeah, so are you an

1172
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: actor or a musician? At that point I kind of

1173
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: already pretty quickly I could tell that I wasn't an actor,

1174
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: but I was there, so I okay, So you go

1175
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: there and when you come to l ah K, to

1176
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 1: what degree are you playing out? Before you go to

1177
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: the thirst promenade. I'm playing, Uh no one will book

1178
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: me and I have no money, So me and my

1179
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: roommate start booking the downstairs at the Viper Room, which

1180
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: is I don't have ever been down there. It's about

1181
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 1: as big as this place exactly, very small, like low bar.

1182
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: So if you put people in there, you've done a

1183
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: great So this was us hustling on my Space finding

1184
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: people that we thought were cool enough and that might

1185
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 1: bring ten of their friends to come pay the twenty

1186
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 1: bucks it is to get in the Viper Room. So

1187
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: we're doing that. I have this little amp that's battery powered,

1188
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: so in my head, I'm like, I can take this

1189
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 1: anywhere anywhere, playing stage create. It was a great amp,

1190
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: so that was what I would use at the street.

1191
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: And then if I thought that, like there was some gig,

1192
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: I think Frey was playing some charity thing at the Roxy,

1193
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: and I was like, those would be my fans. So

1194
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 1: when the line get um, I had zero shame. I

1195
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 1: just like set up outside of the line and I

1196
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: have my guitar and I'm like a mobile dude, just

1197
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 1: like put it down, start playing my stuff. And that

1198
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 1: was kind of how it went for a really long time.

1199
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: So when you're playing outside the Roxy, what's the reaction?

1200
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: You know? Cool? Okay, are people you're giving you money? No? Really,

1201
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: it didn't happen until third year. Fourth year was like, oh,

1202
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: you're like, uh, you're starting to you start to see

1203
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: the switch of your You're really you're you're being able

1204
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 1: to give a service. And then when you stop, everybody

1205
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: come get the CD. Start like okay a little bit.

1206
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: So you're playing the Viper Room. Okay, you're playing the Roxy.

1207
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 1: How long playing roy play outside of the very important?

1208
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: How long before you go to the Thirst Promenade all

1209
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: at the same time? Is this all happening at the

1210
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 1: exact Okay? So how often were you at the third

1211
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 1: Promenade while I was so? Probably I was going during college,

1212
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: so that was uh, weekends or whenever, and then once

1213
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 1: college ended then it was every day every day for

1214
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: how long? You usually Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday long like

1215
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: on Saturday and Sunday because you can they have that's

1216
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 1: a whole game in itself. That's there's restrictions when you're

1217
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: allowed to actually be amplified and not amplified. It's kind

1218
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: of useless to not be amplified because people can't hear

1219
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 1: you and they just walk by. So I think those

1220
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: restrictions are lifted out some somewhere around like five pm

1221
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: on on weekdays and maybe a little bit earlier on Friday.

1222
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 1: But on Saturday it's all day Saturday Sunday, so I

1223
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 1: would get there. You quickly realize that, like, there's great spots,

1224
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 1: So you want to be in front of McDonald's at

1225
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:37,479
Speaker 1: two pm. That's the best spot, okay, But there must

1226
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 1: be somebody else who's figured that out. Yes, So you

1227
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: quickly see that even if you go there, you will

1228
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 1: get kind of gangstered out of that spot. So you

1229
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: then find the hierarchy and then it's first come, first served,

1230
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 1: so you get to the highest place you can get

1231
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 1: to without upsetting the whole dynamic of everything. So for me,

1232
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: it was Forever twenty one. But to get in front

1233
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: of Forever twenty one at the right time, I meant

1234
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 1: I had to be there eight am. So I would

1235
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: wake up at seven on a Saturday, pack all the

1236
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 1: stuff and my mom's many event drive over there and

1237
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: just sit and at that point put all my CDs

1238
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 1: together until two and just read or hang out or

1239
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: just be okay and you can't leave, and the people

1240
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 1: below you knew they weren't good enough to take your spot. No,

1241
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 1: nobody knows that. The only thing that I knew was there,

1242
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:25,320
Speaker 1: Like the super High ones, those people have been there

1243
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 1: for years and years and years, and one of them

1244
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 1: was a duo um Flamenco guitar thing and they're just

1245
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: really they could be really loud. So if you did

1246
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: set up the rule of sixty ft, they would just

1247
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: set up sixty ft away from you and blow you away. Right,

1248
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: So then where did the CD come from? The CD

1249
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 1: was this this small little thing called The World Is

1250
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 1: Yours that I made for no money with a friend,

1251
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 1: and it's got too much auto tune on it and

1252
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: I don't really like it. But I sold for a

1253
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 1: bunch of them. And how many did you sell? How

1254
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: many would you solid day? In the beginning three? Right?

1255
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: You would charge how much ten bucks? Which is a

1256
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 1: huge difference. I don't know how you do it anymore,

1257
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: to be honest, It might be dead because that's how

1258
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: you made your money. That was actually how you can

1259
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: make some money. So if you went out there and

1260
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: you made seventy bucks and tips, that was a good day.

1261
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: But if those seventy were ten dollar sales. Now you're

1262
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,439
Speaker 1: like talking, that's great. Now we're like running a little

1263
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 1: business here. So by the end I would usually the

1264
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 1: last year and a half of doing it, usually between Thursday, Friday,

1265
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: Saturday and no, no, you know, Friday, Saturday and Sunday,

1266
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 1: you usually sell two CDs. Really yeah, and did you

1267
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 1: did you develop fans? Fans and then those people and

1268
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 1: then you're selling CDs and you're handing out flyers. Most

1269
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:42,439
Speaker 1: of the people on the promadade at that point, which

1270
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 1: I assume similar is it's like foreign It's like you're

1271
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 1: on tour in one spot. Everybody. Everybody's coming to you.

1272
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 1: So you're selling CDs and they're you know, they're looking

1273
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 1: you up on my Space at that point. And it

1274
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: was also an understand that you can't draw big enough

1275
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: crowd unless you have some sort of a drum So

1276
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: I would tell a drummer, I'll give you whatever I make.

1277
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 1: This is what business started to really come in because

1278
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 1: I started learning like, okay, so that's two grand first

1279
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 1: for Friday, Saturday and Sunday of gross and now you

1280
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 1: start taking everything away and you see where that actually lands.

1281
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: But well, if you're playing, what are the costs if

1282
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 1: you're playing the first three prominent? Well, yeah, if if

1283
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 1: the cost of the CD, how much does it cost

1284
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 1: to actually get a CD made? And then how much

1285
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: do you have to pay somebody else to make the

1286
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 1: big beat that we give you the reach to get

1287
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 1: everybody there? So usually if I did two thousand and gross,

1288
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: I'd keep about and there were no taxes at that point,

1289
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: so that's not that's not too bad. And how big

1290
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 1: a crowd would you get? It just depends what the

1291
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: best training that it was was. It's it's the same

1292
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,439
Speaker 1: now as it was then that you're there for ten

1293
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 1: hours and you make all your money in twenty minutes

1294
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: over you know, you make the most of your money

1295
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: by getting one big thing of a big crowd. But

1296
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 1: if you could just go do that, then everybody just

1297
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 1: go do that. But you can't. You gotta be there

1298
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 1: all day because you don't know when that's gonna hit,

1299
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 1: when all the things are gonna be right and then boom,

1300
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,560
Speaker 1: And now you know what they talk about is you

1301
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: have to close the circle. Because if you can get

1302
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 1: the circle closed, that's what makes someone go like, oh,

1303
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,879
Speaker 1: what's going on over there? And it becomes like mysterious

1304
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 1: and interesting. Now you can't see over. So now the

1305
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: crowds get bigger and bigger, and people start stepping on chairs,

1306
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 1: and it's just a hustle. It's always a hustle. What

1307
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 1: about going to the bathroom? Uh? Yeah, you you either

1308
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:31,640
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom after directly after. What's funny, So

1309
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: every two hours you have to move because there's good spots,

1310
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 1: and there's a guy with a clipboard who will come

1311
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: and make you move. And so it's funny is at

1312
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,600
Speaker 1: the end, nearing the end of the even hour. So

1313
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:44,719
Speaker 1: if you started two around three forty five, everybody starts

1314
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: looking at each other like who's gonna make the jump

1315
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 1: to try to go find the next best spot. There

1316
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: was a whole thing of people paying homeless people to

1317
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: hold spots. It's a it's a grind. Anytime that you

1318
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: can actually make money somewhere, it's gonna get interesting. You know. Okay,

1319
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: could you ever get to the where you got squeezed

1320
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 1: out musical chairs there was nowhere to play? Yeah, that

1321
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 1: happens over when you do it for that long, there's

1322
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 1: just gonna be times that that happens. It was Honestly,

1323
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:10,560
Speaker 1: I can't think of a better grad school for the

1324
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,920
Speaker 1: music business. So what was going through your head? What

1325
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 1: was the destination? Was there a destination? Not fully, but

1326
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 1: I just watched a father who and mother for that matter, Like,

1327
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:26,719
Speaker 1: you do the thing first and then you get help.

1328
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 1: It doesn't just no one's gonna come give this to you.

1329
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 1: You create the train that's going and then your brain

1330
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: can't even comprehend how cool it will be or where

1331
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: you're gonna go, you just start doing it. That's what

1332
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 1: that's the engine. Just because you're talking about flyers when

1333
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 1: you're playing the Third three Promenade, the flyers for other gigs, Yeah,

1334
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 1: the flyers for Oh now I actually can be first

1335
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 1: of three at the Roxy, which is like I don't

1336
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: have a five people or something that. So now they're

1337
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: letting someone will let me come open for them because

1338
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:00,640
Speaker 1: they've heard me somehow. And it this point, do you

1339
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 1: believe you have any fan base or these are mostly

1340
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: foreigners or I don't think I have a fan base yet. Okay,

1341
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:09,639
Speaker 1: so you get discovered on the Third Street Promenade. How

1342
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: many years have you been playing there before you get discovered?

1343
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 1: Probably third year. My manager comes and so tell us

1344
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 1: the story. He comes and he sees me and he's like,

1345
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: you're good. Uh, but he's definitely questioning, like am I

1346
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 1: gonna is this where I'm getting my you're playing there?

1347
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:30,520
Speaker 1: He just approaches, you know, he starts his company with

1348
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 1: a with a member of my my basketball team. He's

1349
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 1: in New York and he's moving out here and he's

1350
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:38,680
Speaker 1: got this guy, Josh, who was a middle agent. Uh.

1351
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: He gets them together and they start the company and

1352
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: they move out together. And one of the reasons Josh

1353
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 1: is down to move is because you know, he's got

1354
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: this friend that's in living in Hollywood, and so like cool,

1355
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: it's you know what, let's let's shift it. So then

1356
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 1: one day Josh goes like, you should go see my friend.

1357
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: He's playing on the street and uh, and Ben came

1358
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 1: out and we just started really working together. You know.

1359
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: The first thing, the first thing he says, I'm not sure. No, yeah,

1360
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: first thing is definitely not sure. But he keeps coming

1361
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: out and he's like what he was most attracted to

1362
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 1: was the fact that I was just always there. He's like,

1363
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 1: I can work with that. You know, that's a piece

1364
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 1: that you can work with. As they said, as a manager,

1365
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: you can't want it more than the act. And we

1366
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 1: both he's been someone that we both wanted equally and

1367
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 1: he hadn't had a success like we do now with

1368
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: anybody else, so he really really wanted it and we

1369
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 1: kind of bumbled our way through it and it was great.

1370
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 1: Well how long after you met him did you hook

1371
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 1: up with S Curve? Pretty? I mean, so he came

1372
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: here three and then year four? All right, keep your

1373
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 1: head up, and that is what took us to S

1374
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 1: Curve and got us, you know, all up to get

1375
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 1: on the radio and we get that song w into

1376
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:47,760
Speaker 1: movies and that did really great. So that was and

1377
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: and but the first thing that he did with me

1378
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: was he bought me a better rug and a better

1379
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,759
Speaker 1: Uh So that's like, that's when you know you're really

1380
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 1: doing it with someone that you're like, oh, we're doing

1381
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,160
Speaker 1: this together. I don't think he ever build me back

1382
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:04,799
Speaker 1: to the rug. Good. Look do you have paper with him?

1383
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that's what's so sweet. We I

1384
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 1: think we had one to start and I'm sure that's

1385
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: that's over. And he's my brother, he's my blood brother.

1386
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 1: And has anybody tried to poach you? No, they kind

1387
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 1: of know. Everybody kind of knows where a team we

1388
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 1: go together. So what goes through your head? A lot

1389
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 1: of people can't handle success. You've obviously had a lot

1390
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:30,640
Speaker 1: of time actually performing, But when it starts to go,

1391
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:32,600
Speaker 1: are you getting freaked out? Are you say no, this

1392
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 1: is exactly what I want. I'm cool. Um No, I'm

1393
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 1: still just trying to not die because I know how

1394
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: fickle it is and how hard it is to get

1395
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 1: to a place. So I'm just trying to maximize every

1396
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 1: possible option in every situation. So what I liked when

1397
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 1: I tell the story to other people is that I

1398
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 1: had four years of figuring out fifteen minutes that was

1399
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 1: actually of service to the to the listener, right, So like, Okay,

1400
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 1: this doesn't work. It doesn't work. This little cover of

1401
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 1: Maroon five works. This like Sunday Morning makes everybody stop.

1402
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 1: So I got that. Now I gotta find three songs

1403
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 1: that are my own that do that. So then I

1404
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: went like fifty songs trying to be like Sunday Morning,

1405
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 1: and one of those was keep your head up. So

1406
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: then when I have this type fifteen that will work

1407
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: on a stranger who's walking by, then when keep your

1408
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 1: head up came. I had this tight fifteen which was

1409
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: extremely valuable. To walk into a radio programmer in Iowa

1410
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: that doesn't want to talk to you, doesn't need you, please,

1411
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 1: could you just get away from me? And I go like,

1412
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: just give me fifteen minutes? And I have this like

1413
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 1: tested fifteen minute thing. That would the same impulse of

1414
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 1: someone being like, you know what, dude, here's ten bucks

1415
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 1: or a CD. That's a very similar impulse to like,

1416
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:50,640
Speaker 1: you know what, I think I'm putting it in. I

1417
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:52,200
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna put it in. And we went to

1418
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:54,400
Speaker 1: every radio station twice around the whole country, all the

1419
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:56,680
Speaker 1: hot seas stations, so you know, we put in a

1420
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 1: lot of work. I've had it like actually get to

1421
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: go in the radio. Everybody always asked like what was

1422
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 1: it like the first time you heard on the radio.

1423
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, I've been to that place like four times.

1424
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 1: It was in St. Louis. It's not like, oh my god,

1425
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 1: it's like I know that guy. I've like been to

1426
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 1: his wife's freaking birthday party. I played for his daughter

1427
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,799
Speaker 1: who didn't care like this. It is not that exciting,

1428
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 1: but it's great. It's still great, But there's just like

1429
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:22,639
Speaker 1: so much effort and and work that goes into getting

1430
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 1: it to to go. You know. Okay, so at this

1431
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:29,719
Speaker 1: late date, how's your financial situation. We're doing great, okay. Yeah,

1432
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 1: And so in terms of twelve months, you have a

1433
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 1: kid with another on your way the way, I mean

1434
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 1: a lot. You're talking about a lot of work. I'd

1435
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 1: presumed before you had children at all, you were not

1436
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:46,439
Speaker 1: that available, no, for for the early season before kids,

1437
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 1: it would have been really hard to do that with kids.

1438
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 1: Say that, and your wife was understanding. She was really cool.

1439
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: I mean she was a she was a songwriter, and

1440
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,639
Speaker 1: then she would also she did some tours, uh, without

1441
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:00,040
Speaker 1: me as well. It's a hard line to find. I

1442
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 1: think that I definitely got lucky. I worked really hard

1443
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 1: and put in a lot of effort. In the same

1444
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,720
Speaker 1: way I think anybody that does a business, getting a

1445
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: bit getting distance between you and the ground where the

1446
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 1: business is like the hardest part. So you might uh.

1447
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 1: Tony Robbins says a thing about a life cycle. Business

1448
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 1: as a life cycle. So you're like in the beginning

1449
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:23,479
Speaker 1: of your business like a baby that is an infant

1450
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 1: and will die unless you get up every night in

1451
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:27,680
Speaker 1: the middle of the night and just all of your

1452
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 1: resources go to keep this thing alive. And then you

1453
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 1: slowly go through the other stages of where you can

1454
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:34,639
Speaker 1: get like a little more relaxed. Yeah, but you said

1455
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: it's a life. It sounds like there's death involved too.

1456
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:39,120
Speaker 1: I do think there's death. Everything is death. No, no,

1457
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:41,679
Speaker 1: what is Tony Robbins always says that it goes from

1458
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 1: uh infant to then there's like a teenager where you

1459
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:49,760
Speaker 1: think that um that gross is profit, so you act

1460
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 1: like wildly, you have no idea what you're doing. Then

1461
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 1: you have a young adult where you start to put

1462
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:57,600
Speaker 1: systems into place to like help you actually keep this

1463
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:00,920
Speaker 1: business going. Then you hit um is like max profit,

1464
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 1: where you're running it the best you could. And then

1465
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: you go to old age and then you go to

1466
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 1: like subsidized, and then you're like that did you go

1467
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 1: to a Tony Robbins course? Yes, I went to a

1468
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 1: business course. Wait wait, what was the inspiration to go, um? Well?

1469
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 1: I think my manager was like, dude, he's doing this

1470
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 1: business course. I feel like it's probably good idea for

1471
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 1: us to do this. You know, I remember how expensive

1472
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 1: it was. It was like ten grand, right, best ten grand?

1473
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:30,760
Speaker 1: I've ever spent in my life. Okay, how long was

1474
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: the seminar? It was one of those like five day things.

1475
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 1: And went to England. How many you went to England?

1476
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: How many people were there? Probably thousand, two thousand people.

1477
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 1: So did you get any access to Tony Robbins? No,

1478
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 1: I'm playing his birthday party on Saturday, but I didn't

1479
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:47,640
Speaker 1: have access to him at that point. Did he make

1480
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:49,800
Speaker 1: your walk across the hot coals? We didn't. That wasn't cold.

1481
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 1: This was like a business one where I learned some

1482
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 1: of the most valuable things, just having not gone to

1483
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 1: straight business school. One of the best things I ever

1484
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 1: learned at that place was he put a cricket a

1485
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 1: cricket scoreboard up on the screen and he goes like,

1486
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 1: does anybody know what this means? And we're all I have.

1487
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 1: I have no idea what a cricket scoreboard is. He goes, like,

1488
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 1: most people play the game of business like this. I

1489
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 1: swear to God, it's insane. You never believe it, but

1490
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 1: that's how this goes. And he goes, how do you

1491
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:19,879
Speaker 1: even know what to do when you look at this?

1492
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 1: This is what accounting is. Then he put up a

1493
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:24,719
Speaker 1: scoreboard of a baseball, and it was like the bottom

1494
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 1: of the fifth, there's a guy in second and third

1495
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 1: you're down by you know what I mean. And I'm like, oh,

1496
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:31,760
Speaker 1: He's like, this is what your business manager does. Your

1497
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 1: business manager is not supposed to tell you what to do.

1498
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:36,639
Speaker 1: They're gonna give you the scoreboard. And then you walk

1499
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 1: up to the plate and you make the move. You

1500
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 1: swing for the fences. You're like, ship, we're close. I'm

1501
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 1: gonna bunt, We're gonna do this. That was so valuable.

1502
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 1: I'd never heard it put that way before. There was

1503
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 1: just like four things that were about that big to

1504
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:48,920
Speaker 1: me at that point. And what was the status of

1505
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:53,519
Speaker 1: your career at that point? That was just before before

1506
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 1: on I'm good, I think, or right after okay, and

1507
01:17:56,600 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 1: if you had any continuing education with Tony ron Um no,

1508
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 1: I mean i've done what we've done two of them,

1509
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 1: I think. The one the first one we did was

1510
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 1: something called I think the Day with Destiny should when

1511
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:11,479
Speaker 1: to Australia do that. It's just good when you're when

1512
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 1: you're the one that's the engine of stuff, you gotta

1513
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 1: like go get psyched up sometimes, you know, I'm not

1514
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 1: like I don't do what every I've only done two

1515
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 1: of them, but they were both really, really impactful. So

1516
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 1: how do you manage the work life balance at this

1517
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 1: point in time? Man, it's not easy, but the kids

1518
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 1: help because they don't care so that I mean asked

1519
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:36,519
Speaker 1: my daughter. She just like commands my attention. So once

1520
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 1: I'm home, I'm pretty much home. There are seasons where

1521
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more hard to do that, but

1522
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:45,639
Speaker 1: for the most part, right now, Uh, like I said,

1523
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 1: you put systems into place, and there's a lot of

1524
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 1: people working that. Hopefully at six pm, don't you don't

1525
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: got to talk to me and uh, what's the goal

1526
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 1: at this point in time? The goal is to continue

1527
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:02,800
Speaker 1: to triple down on what makes me unique. So you said,

1528
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 1: you know, my jacket says reckless optimist. I think there's

1529
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:08,759
Speaker 1: a lot of people that would love to hear songs

1530
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 1: about that that don't know yet. Well, this is kind

1531
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 1: of an extension to your father's business to some degree,

1532
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 1: you know. Um, I think the goal and the fun,

1533
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 1: if you can look at it as as a fun thing,

1534
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:25,760
Speaker 1: is it's the wild West right now, and people that

1535
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:30,640
Speaker 1: are uh, I don't know, people that are aggressive and

1536
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:34,360
Speaker 1: inspired and interested in how to how to work this

1537
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 1: new thing. There's like a lot of potential, you know,

1538
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 1: if you get if you get over like overstimulated with

1539
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:43,680
Speaker 1: like oh my god, nothing is the same as it was.

1540
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 1: You can you can just be in depression all day long.

1541
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 1: But as someone that started as a street performer and

1542
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 1: is sitting next to you right now, I'm like, this

1543
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 1: isn't We're gonna be good. Do you consider the road

1544
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:58,080
Speaker 1: to be fun or work? No? The more like I

1545
01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:00,840
Speaker 1: would hope anybody if you work this hard at thirty six,

1546
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:03,680
Speaker 1: most of the things that I'm doing, I'm like, I'm

1547
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: gonna go right with some of the best. I'm like,

1548
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,520
Speaker 1: incredible writers. I get to I get to get into situations,

1549
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 1: you get a movie what Curious George called me. They're like,

1550
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:12,320
Speaker 1: do you want to do the theme song? I'm like, yes,

1551
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:15,519
Speaker 1: that sounds awesome like my days that the work that

1552
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 1: I get to do is so fulfilling and interesting and

1553
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:25,880
Speaker 1: fascinating that it's the work part is uh, just like

1554
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: running a business is hard and the weight that comes

1555
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:31,360
Speaker 1: with that on your shoulders. But that's what you do

1556
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:35,240
Speaker 1: that okay, we're talking about it's the wild West in

1557
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:39,400
Speaker 1: the business and you have your niche are you just

1558
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 1: riding the pony or you say no, I want to

1559
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 1: get here and I want to figure out the zigarad

1560
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 1: to get there. No, we gotta go away bigger. There's

1561
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 1: a lot more people that want that, like me, that

1562
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:51,080
Speaker 1: have no idea who I am and how are you

1563
01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:54,880
Speaker 1: going to reach them? Um. Yeah, I think we're figuring

1564
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: it out. I think by continue to put out music

1565
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:00,880
Speaker 1: that is that that hopefully no other the other people

1566
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:03,439
Speaker 1: aren't putting out. Point of view wise, I think that

1567
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:07,800
Speaker 1: it's a time, especially right now, where hope and optimism

1568
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 1: is actually like kind of in. I would think more

1569
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: than other times I've felt it being someone who is myself. Okay,

1570
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 1: I can feel when it's like in and when it's

1571
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: not in, and I think we're all a little bit

1572
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:23,519
Speaker 1: freaked out about how everything's going. And someone that brings,

1573
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:25,280
Speaker 1: you know, with don't give up on me. I've been

1574
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:27,120
Speaker 1: doing these videos. Well we'll just like roll up on

1575
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:29,839
Speaker 1: people that are going through it and we'll sing directly

1576
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:32,280
Speaker 1: to them, sometimes with kids. And those videos have been

1577
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 1: going crazy online and everybody's into it, and so just

1578
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 1: who I am naturally is a good It's a good

1579
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 1: time for that so I really want to go. Do

1580
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:43,640
Speaker 1: you believe that these successes in the New world or

1581
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 1: happy accidents or you can plan them both. You plan

1582
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 1: the best you can and then you have no It's

1583
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:53,439
Speaker 1: like music, and this is kind of a dumb question

1584
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:56,920
Speaker 1: about all ask in anyway, what do you think is

1585
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 1: the primary driver of your career at this point? Still

1586
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,519
Speaker 1: still primary song? Okay, I should ask question a little

1587
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,920
Speaker 1: bit different once you have the product the song, what

1588
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 1: is most important Spotify, radio, Facebook, video, what do you

1589
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:19,880
Speaker 1: think or really it's a combination of everything. So we're

1590
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,800
Speaker 1: talking about dude, this is so confusing. I think that

1591
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 1: you do. It's like this weird thing of all of it,

1592
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 1: which then I'll send you into a tailspan. But also

1593
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 1: I think that you can't say it's the same for everyone.

1594
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 1: So I've had big hits that are like I have

1595
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 1: a song fresh Eyes that was like not a hit

1596
01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:41,160
Speaker 1: on the radio, it's million plays on Spotify and it

1597
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:43,920
Speaker 1: is a super it's a hit. So like, I think

1598
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 1: we have to be careful of what the driver is

1599
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:50,800
Speaker 1: for this one and then follow where that where it's

1600
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: telling you to go and maximize in that area for

1601
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:57,799
Speaker 1: each one. Okay, you're a happy optimist. To what degree

1602
01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 1: are you fearful of doing something that might alienate your

1603
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:05,559
Speaker 1: audience less now than ever? So what was it like before?

1604
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 1: Before I was worried that I was, that I was

1605
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 1: gonna be cheesy. I was really overly worried that, um,

1606
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 1: I would turn someone off by being just my, my,

1607
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:21,240
Speaker 1: the true vibe that I am. And the incredible book

1608
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: called This Is Marketing by Seth Godin. Do you know

1609
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:26,000
Speaker 1: Seth Godin? How do you email with him? Yesterday? God?

1610
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:28,640
Speaker 1: That guy? Is he gonna come on here? Well? You

1611
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 1: know he Well he's in New York. I didn't even

1612
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:33,200
Speaker 1: he is fantastic. He has a book called This Is Marketing,

1613
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 1: and and uh he had. I was listening to the

1614
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 1: audiobook and I get pulling over to write the right

1615
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:40,439
Speaker 1: notes down. One of them was, Um, you really gotta

1616
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:43,320
Speaker 1: be okay with telling a large group of the country

1617
01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 1: this is not for you. When you do that, when

1618
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: you fully say this is not for you, who it's

1619
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,880
Speaker 1: for they go, oh, my God, that's my guy. And

1620
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:55,559
Speaker 1: you're not like denying people. You're just by who you are,

1621
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:57,880
Speaker 1: being like, this is who I am. And if if

1622
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 1: I like concretely say that, then some people inevitably will

1623
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:04,000
Speaker 1: be like, you know it's not for you, okay, but

1624
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:09,960
Speaker 1: we live in a you know, complicated error. So just

1625
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, this may not fit with your image. But

1626
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 1: if you say, would you be fearful of making a

1627
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:18,200
Speaker 1: political endorsement for fear that it might alienate part of

1628
01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:21,720
Speaker 1: your audience? Um? Yeah, I don't do any as of

1629
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 1: a high You're not on the line with any political party,

1630
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 1: so I don't do any police, but I don't like

1631
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:29,320
Speaker 1: register as someone. I don't play anything. He's got an

1632
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:30,640
Speaker 1: offer for a convention, and I was like, you know,

1633
01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:34,799
Speaker 1: based on your faith, faith, okay, but to what degree

1634
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:37,760
Speaker 1: you're in the show or you're doing press, would you

1635
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:40,680
Speaker 1: be worried about saying something that might be seen as unpopular?

1636
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:45,479
Speaker 1: Not a lot, I don't. I don't think about that

1637
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:49,759
Speaker 1: very much. Okay. Terms of social media, to what degree

1638
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 1: you personally post on social media? All of them? No?

1639
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:59,679
Speaker 1: You but you yourself? How much your day has spent, God,

1640
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 1: it's a lot, man. Well that's why I'm so. I

1641
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 1: just came from a two hour session where I, like,

1642
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, figuring out what it is we're gonna post,

1643
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:10,080
Speaker 1: and then I sit and write all the captions for it,

1644
01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:13,559
Speaker 1: and then that's like the steady stream that I look

1645
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:15,439
Speaker 1: at and see and we create a person on the

1646
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 1: payroll or and then uh, and then you mix that

1647
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 1: in with stuff that just happens that I love, I mean,

1648
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 1: and my daughter or whatever what else is going on.

1649
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:26,599
Speaker 1: Then it's just like, throw up, what's the most powerful

1650
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 1: platform for your career? I have the most follows on YouTube? Uh,

1651
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 1: then comes Facebook and then Instagram. There's so much work

1652
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 1: to be done, good God, and they all need different

1653
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, like again if you get, if you get,

1654
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 1: you can go down a spiral in your brain where

1655
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:47,679
Speaker 1: you're like, this is insanity. But for me, what happened

1656
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:51,759
Speaker 1: was I started to realize that, like, I love what's

1657
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 1: in my heart getting to your heart, and I genuinely

1658
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:59,240
Speaker 1: if that's a caption, I still really like that. So

1659
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:02,559
Speaker 1: the album have exploded for me this year of like

1660
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:04,360
Speaker 1: what the goal it used to be? You do all

1661
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:07,559
Speaker 1: this work to create one thing and then you give

1662
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:09,880
Speaker 1: it to everybody at one moment, and then everybody likes

1663
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:12,760
Speaker 1: that one thing, and that doesn't seem to be the

1664
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:15,519
Speaker 1: most effective way right now to get from what's in

1665
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:18,240
Speaker 1: me to you. There's like you have to kind of

1666
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: blow it up and be like, it's all of the album.

1667
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:22,439
Speaker 1: The whole thing is the album. The album artwork is

1668
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 1: that makes the questions you do have an album at all?

1669
01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:28,040
Speaker 1: Or just constantly put out material you could do? You know?

1670
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:29,479
Speaker 1: To me, it's that I wrote a hundred you want

1671
01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:33,560
Speaker 1: to hear some of them, but I got a lot here.

1672
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 1: What you post on YouTube, some of these originals that

1673
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 1: are not on the album. Yeah, I think that, you know,

1674
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:42,280
Speaker 1: that's a good question. We're looking at, you know, what

1675
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:46,439
Speaker 1: exactly it looks like moving forward? I don't know. I

1676
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 1: do think that there's something about a collection of songs

1677
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 1: can be how you're feeling at that moment, and it's

1678
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:55,560
Speaker 1: kind of nice to put them all together, but not important. Okay,

1679
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:59,479
Speaker 1: and you have people working for you posting your words.

1680
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:03,080
Speaker 1: But do you interact with your fans on social media?

1681
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:05,639
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally. I mean everybody, and we're also addicted

1682
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 1: to it. I'm on Instagram, on Facebook responding. I have

1683
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 1: something called Community, which is the texting service. I was

1684
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:14,919
Speaker 1: on that really early, and I'll do stuff on Community

1685
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:18,599
Speaker 1: where I'll be like, uh, check it out. I am

1686
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:21,559
Speaker 1: playing a show in Minneapolis and there's Duncan Donuts down

1687
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:24,759
Speaker 1: the street. If you're there in the next twenty five minutes,

1688
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:28,760
Speaker 1: I'll take a picture and hang with everybody. How I've

1689
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 1: proad about eight of those. Those are really fun. And

1690
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 1: you shut down Dunkan Donuts, and it's like we have

1691
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:35,920
Speaker 1: videos on all my socials of like, oh my god,

1692
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:37,640
Speaker 1: oh shit, the people have dunking donuts like you got

1693
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 1: a lot of this is insane And if you had

1694
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:46,120
Speaker 1: any bad experience, who's interacting with the po No, especially

1695
01:27:46,160 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 1: my group of fans are usually really sweet. Okay, Andy,

1696
01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:53,519
Speaker 1: this is a big thing. You're go on forever. Such

1697
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:55,960
Speaker 1: an interesting dude to me, this is a really full

1698
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 1: circle moment. I've been reading you. You've been someone in

1699
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:04,360
Speaker 1: my life that has been very like because you you

1700
01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:07,400
Speaker 1: are coming from honesty and truth. Usually that's the that

1701
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: seems like the highest thing for you. Uh, that resonates

1702
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 1: with me and I have had I remember reading literally

1703
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:18,479
Speaker 1: reading your letter sitting on the little sidewalk as a

1704
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:21,080
Speaker 1: street performer. So it is wonderful to have a conversation

1705
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:23,280
Speaker 1: with you, my friend. Well, I can't see this is audio.

1706
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 1: I'm smiling on that note until next time. This is

1707
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:28,800
Speaker 1: the Bob Left Sets podcast,