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Speaker 1: Now let's jump into the show. Welcome to the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health,

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Speaker 1: personal development, and all the small decisions we can make

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Speaker 1: to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Dr joy Hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: For more information or to find a therapist in your area,

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Speaker 1: visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com.

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Speaker 1: While I hope you love listening to and learning from

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Speaker 1: the podcast, it is meant to be a substitute for

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Speaker 1: a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for session one eight

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Speaker 1: of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. Have you ever

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Speaker 1: used tarot cards or hand some read for you? Have

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Speaker 1: you heard others talk about them and been curious, Well,

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Speaker 1: We've got you covered to answer all of your questions

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Speaker 1: about tarot. We're joined this week by Princess India Powell.

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Speaker 1: Princess India is a licensed professional counselor, best selling author

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Speaker 1: and YouTube personality. She's the creator of Tarot Therapy and

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Speaker 1: aims to use her content to educate and inspire. She's

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Speaker 1: also the owner of Soul Culture Counseling and Healing Lounge

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Speaker 1: in New Orleans, Louisiana, where she provides in person and

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Speaker 1: virtual therapy sessions. Princess Indian and I discussed what tarot

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Speaker 1: is and how it can be useful. How she incorporates

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Speaker 1: tarot into therapy. When requested how you can get started

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Speaker 1: incorporating taro into your life, and she shared some of

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Speaker 1: her favorite resources. If anything resonates with you while enjoying

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Speaker 1: our conversation, please share with us on social media using

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Speaker 1: the hashtag tv G in Session. Here's our conversation. But

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today, Princess India.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Yes, I am very excited

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Speaker 1: to have you join us and share more about the

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Speaker 1: work that you do. So can you start by just

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Speaker 1: telling us a little bit about your background, both as

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Speaker 1: a therapist and a tarot reader. Well, my background would

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Speaker 1: go as far back as me being twelve years old.

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Speaker 1: That's when I got my first Tarot deck and as

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Speaker 1: many people feel with taro being a tadbit taboo, little

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Speaker 1: tongue and cheat going on there, I hit it from

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Speaker 1: my mom was a friend of mine found it in

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Speaker 1: her attic. I was so fascinated by the imagery. That's

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Speaker 1: really what captured me and fast forwarding more into my

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Speaker 1: adult life, I've always been very interested in spirituality and

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Speaker 1: religion and I was raised Catholic most of my life

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Speaker 1: and my dad is a minister. When I was probably

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Speaker 1: about eighteen, I started going to a nondenominational Christian church.

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Speaker 1: Then I got really obsessed with the Bible and Buddhism

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Speaker 1: and the intricacies of all of them. And during my

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Speaker 1: own journey, because the thing I'd love to tell my

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Speaker 1: clients to help them out with the stigmas of therapy

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Speaker 1: is that I myself when I was young, I went

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Speaker 1: into therapy myself to get my life together because it

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Speaker 1: was a spiritual journey. But I got to a point

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Speaker 1: where I hit a plateau and I realized, Okay, things

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Speaker 1: have changed, but there's still things that I need to

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Speaker 1: deal with from different traumas I experienced in my life,

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Speaker 1: and I realized I wanted to be a therapist in therapy.

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Speaker 1: But even with that full circle, with spirituality, with psychile

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Speaker 1: g counseling, all of these things, I still felt that

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Speaker 1: there was an element that was missing. And that's when

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Speaker 1: I picked up a tarot deck again and me just

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Speaker 1: kind of fooling around with it. It was crazy to

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Speaker 1: me how every time i'd pick a card it spoke

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Speaker 1: exactly to my situation. When you have clients that have blocks, right,

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Speaker 1: it's an inability to see like I don't understand why

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Speaker 1: I do that or I don't know where that comes from.

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Speaker 1: But Tarat always spoke to that block, and I feel

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Speaker 1: called out. It's kind of like, so I do that,

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Speaker 1: I might do that, I might you know. So I

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Speaker 1: started incorporating it in my own journey and it acted

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Speaker 1: as a mirror to me two more or less see

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Speaker 1: what I know now to be our subconscious the motivation

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Speaker 1: behind our behavior, so those things that are conscious mind

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Speaker 1: won't allow us to see. So it helped me so

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Speaker 1: much on my own journey. I was given the opportunity

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Speaker 1: many years later in my own therapeutic practice to be

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Speaker 1: able to incorporate it because I had so many clients

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Speaker 1: that would ask about it and I'd raise an eyebrow

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Speaker 1: and this is like pre YouTube, how'd raise an eyebrow?

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Speaker 1: Like you're asking me about astrology and taro and it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I actually know about that, and it's like you do,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like yeah. So that's kind of how everything

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Speaker 1: just came together. And with my YouTube, I think it

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Speaker 1: was a great medium to be able to integrate two

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Speaker 1: things that are very very important to my life and

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Speaker 1: my journey. M hmmm. So it sounds like you got

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Speaker 1: your initial deck and then like revisited it later, and

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Speaker 1: then it was brought back up again by clients unknowingly.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because I was terrified to speak about it

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Speaker 1: because it's kind of it's reverse for me, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of times we think about in mental health, there's

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Speaker 1: a stigma with therapy, right, and it's kind of tongue

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Speaker 1: in cheek, and some people don't want to tell people

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Speaker 1: that they're, you know, seeing a therapist or considering it.

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Speaker 1: But for me, it was more or less my spiritual

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Speaker 1: journey that felt kind of tongue in cheek. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the mental health community as a you know, licensed professional side,

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Speaker 1: that's a little tongue in cheek. And I'm glad now

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Speaker 1: that it's getting more into the public eye and it's

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Speaker 1: starting to become a little more normal, even though we're

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Speaker 1: still kind of on the outskirts. But I myself have

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Speaker 1: even struggled with that of telling people. And I'm thankful

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Speaker 1: to those clients that were like, so, what you know

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Speaker 1: about tarot cards? So can you tell us more about

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Speaker 1: what they are? And so I know that it's a

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Speaker 1: card deck, but I don't know very much more than that,

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Speaker 1: So can you tell us more about what the cards

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Speaker 1: representing the practice of it. Of course, and all honesty,

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Speaker 1: Tarot cards are nothing more than a playing card deck.

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Speaker 1: The origins of it begin in Egypt, believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: up until the seventeen hundreds. I believe it started well

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Speaker 1: maybe between fifteen dred and seventeen hundreds that got really

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Speaker 1: really popular in France. And it was literally a game

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Speaker 1: that people played much like you know spades or you know,

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Speaker 1: for me, I only know how to play go fish.

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Speaker 1: But does it ever asked me to be your partner

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Speaker 1: in space? Because you're probably, but I'll shuffle for you.

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Speaker 1: Does about it? It goes all the way back to there.

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Speaker 1: But it was literally a playing card game, and it

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Speaker 1: didn't start to get popularized as a deva nation tool

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Speaker 1: until probably about eighteen hundreds. Nineteen hundreds is when Tarot

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Speaker 1: started being well, it's probably was being used with devination

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Speaker 1: before then, but historically is when it started being documented

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Speaker 1: before it being used as a devnation system. But it's

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Speaker 1: broken down into three different tiers. You have your major

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Speaker 1: arcanas and me saying it from what I know because

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Speaker 1: I literally have studied tarot like it's a whole system.

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Speaker 1: But with the Major Arcanada. It's all spiritual lessons and

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Speaker 1: there's twenty two cars. So if you look at it

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Speaker 1: from the very first card, which would be the full card,

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Speaker 1: it goes all the way to the world, and that's

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Speaker 1: speaking of the continuous lessons that all human beings learned

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Speaker 1: spiritually throughout life, so it's your own personal evolution. Then

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Speaker 1: you have the second tier, which is all the court cards,

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Speaker 1: and I relate all of those to the sixteen m

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Speaker 1: B t I or Myers Briggs personality types. And then

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Speaker 1: the last tiers the minor Arcana, and that's pretty much

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Speaker 1: just like day to day stuff. So if anyone's ever

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Speaker 1: seen like a regular deck of cards, everything in the

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Speaker 1: minor Arcana is pretty much what you would see in

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Speaker 1: a modern day plane card deck. And the purpose of

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Speaker 1: that is to show kind of like day to day experiences.

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Speaker 1: But I've translated those more or less I could say diagnosis,

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Speaker 1: but it's more or less like traits and symptoms that

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Speaker 1: are by products of mindsets. Is how I would like

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Speaker 1: to look at the minor Arcana. But when we talk

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Speaker 1: about symbolism, depending on the deck that you're looking at,

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Speaker 1: and the writer weight deck is the one that most

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Speaker 1: people are familiar with. But it's a lot of the

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Speaker 1: symbolism is really honestly, it's a lot of Christian symbolism

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Speaker 1: that's in Taro. It's a lot of astrological symbolism. There's

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Speaker 1: numerology symbolism. It's a lot of symbols that are in

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Speaker 1: there that I think any person would be familiar with.

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Speaker 1: And of course there's two cards in there that everyone

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Speaker 1: is terrified of, and that's the double card of the

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Speaker 1: death card. And neither one of those cards mean what

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Speaker 1: they literally say. I'll say it that way, So it's

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Speaker 1: all symbolism. And I related a lot back to Karl

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Speaker 1: Young and the collective subconscious and the importance of symbolism

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Speaker 1: to all humanity. Much like how a smile is the

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Speaker 1: same thing in every language. I like to look at

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Speaker 1: Taro that same way. It's those little figure signs and

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Speaker 1: symbols that mean those same things to us the matter

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Speaker 1: of language we speak. Okay, And so you said that

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Speaker 1: there are twenty two cards, and are you picking one

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Speaker 1: from each of these Arcanadas? Like you mentioned, there are

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Speaker 1: some people who do with me. Typically it depends on

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Speaker 1: the type of reading that I'm doing. I don't particularly

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Speaker 1: like to include court cards in my decks unless I'm

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Speaker 1: doing something general like on YouTube. I kind of keep

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Speaker 1: those separate usually, but most of the time people will

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Speaker 1: include because there's seventy eight cards in total. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so most of the time people will put them all

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Speaker 1: together and just kind of let them come out however

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Speaker 1: they come out. But you are saying, if you are

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Speaker 1: working with a client, you might kind of narrow the

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Speaker 1: deck down depending on what their need is. Yes, because

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Speaker 1: most of my clients, whenever we incorporate TERO, there's a

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Speaker 1: deck that I use that that's just strictly Major Arcanadam

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Speaker 1: because usually when we're doing it, it's more or less

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Speaker 1: and how I do it when I work with my

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Speaker 1: clients is totally different than some who's familiar with my

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Speaker 1: YouTube would see. Yeah, it's oh the huge differences. For

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Speaker 1: number one, in therapy, I don't talk half as much

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Speaker 1: as I do, so my client is like in the reverse.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is that I'm more concerned with what

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Speaker 1: they see, so will kind of pull the cards out,

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Speaker 1: They'll lay them out, and I allow them to put

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Speaker 1: them in the order that they think that they need

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Speaker 1: to be in and then I tell them to tell

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Speaker 1: me a story, and it doesn't have to be about them.

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Speaker 1: It could be a story about me, it could be

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Speaker 1: a story about their coworker. It literally doesn't matter, and

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Speaker 1: like whatever you feel led to tell me a story

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Speaker 1: about telling me the story and the irony of every

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Speaker 1: time that's done, they somehow speak exactly to what their

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Speaker 1: block is, because I usually bring it up when there's

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Speaker 1: a block one of my clients is experiencing and it's

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Speaker 1: like no matter what they're trying to trying to look

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Speaker 1: at it from every perspective and can't see it. And

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Speaker 1: that falls more into like the narrative therapy arena, which

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Speaker 1: is really what I look at TARO as being. It's

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Speaker 1: it's a form of narrative therapy. It gives a client

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to pull themselves out of their situation, because

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Speaker 1: we a lot of times get blocked on situations because

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Speaker 1: we become the situation, we become the problem, and we

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Speaker 1: can no longer differentiate ourselves from that problem. So I

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Speaker 1: look at tarot as a means to pull yourself out

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Speaker 1: of the situation and give yourself an objective view of

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Speaker 1: your life so you can see all of the parts

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Speaker 1: that are interacting to create this said problem. So in

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Speaker 1: some ways it sounds like you're using tarot cards much

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Speaker 1: in the way someone might use a projective in psychology. Absolutely, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So for people who may not be familiar with the

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Speaker 1: term projective, we're talking about like the roy shot cars

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Speaker 1: or when we have somebody's draw a picture of a

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Speaker 1: Tria house in a person. So you're looking for what

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Speaker 1: kind of story there may sickly telling you based on

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Speaker 1: what the picture is exactly, got it? Got it? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So tell me more about how you might introduce taro

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Speaker 1: to your therapy clients. It sounds like some people approach

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Speaker 1: you because they know that you incorporate this, But would

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Speaker 1: there be a time where you might introduce this to

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Speaker 1: a client who hasn't specifically come to you for this.

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Speaker 1: There's never been a time I've introduced it first because

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Speaker 1: with my therapeutic approach, my main therapeutic approaches gestult therapy.

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Speaker 1: So I'm always looking at what's in the best interests

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Speaker 1: of my clients prior to YouTube, and I would have

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Speaker 1: to speak prior to YouTube when my clients didn't know

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Speaker 1: that I even did that. It was really chance that

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Speaker 1: that it was brought up them kind of catching the

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Speaker 1: vibe like you got crystals on, Like I feel like

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Speaker 1: you might be into this stuff, you know, Okay, But

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Speaker 1: it's never been something that I've ever bought up as

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Speaker 1: like an intervention, if you will, Because I always want

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Speaker 1: to follow the lead of my clients. I always is

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Speaker 1: want to do what's in their best interests. But post

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Speaker 1: YouTube it gets brought up to me more than anything else.

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Speaker 1: It's brought up to me. But even still, whether it's

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Speaker 1: tarot or or anything else, I would never incorporate anything

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Speaker 1: into the therapy journey with the client unless I felt

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Speaker 1: it would be in their best interest. Got it? So

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Speaker 1: can you tell me what it might look like to

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Speaker 1: do tarot therapy with you? So I'm guessing you still

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Speaker 1: do like a regular intake and then at some point

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Speaker 1: to transition to the tarot cards. Can you tell me

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Speaker 1: more about what the process looks like. Yes, that's more

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Speaker 1: or less. Now. I had to create an entire methodology

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Speaker 1: for it through my YouTube because a lot of people

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Speaker 1: were asking to have private sessions. And I think initially

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Speaker 1: when I first started YouTube, I was working in a

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Speaker 1: heavy clinical setting. I worked with a lot of addictions

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Speaker 1: and schizophrenia and a lot of things like that. So

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Speaker 1: it was kind of an outlet for me. I didn't

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Speaker 1: expected to evolve into what it has, so I kind

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Speaker 1: of had to create this medium for private sessions as

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Speaker 1: I went along. But it's the same intake. It's I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna say a full on psychosocial assessment type of intake,

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Speaker 1: but it's a similar intake, and I have clients that

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Speaker 1: book and it's more or less looking at what the

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Speaker 1: presenting problem is and what their goals are. So that

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Speaker 1: same similar process and instead of more or less of

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Speaker 1: a treatment plan that you would start from day one,

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Speaker 1: it's something that evolves. It's more or less a lot

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Speaker 1: of my clients that come into terror therapy, they're coming

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Speaker 1: in not knowing what the problem is at all. It's

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Speaker 1: like I just know I feel this particular way, and

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Speaker 1: it's like some of them, like people I work with

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Speaker 1: that are out of talents, like I actually have a therapist,

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Speaker 1: but it's like, I feel like this is going on

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Speaker 1: in my spiritual life and I'm trying to get clarity

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Speaker 1: on that. And that's what I find in the biggest

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Speaker 1: differences is that majority of the people who come to

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Speaker 1: me for Taro therapy, it's spiritual problems, so it's not

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Speaker 1: really so much on that scale of of something they

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Speaker 1: may be struggling. Within the mental health arena. It's a

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Speaker 1: lot of spiritual problems of you know, I don't even

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Speaker 1: know if I believe anymore, or you know, I used

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Speaker 1: to practice Christianity, but it's like now I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I believe. So it's a lot of spiritual conflicts

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Speaker 1: I deal with on the Taro therapy, so I believe

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Speaker 1: it or not? Got it? So you might be working

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Speaker 1: in conjunction with somebody who's seeing a therapist for other concerns, yes,

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Speaker 1: got it? And is there ever a point at which

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Speaker 1: you are working kind of like jointly with the therapist,

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Speaker 1: like maybe you all are having consultations or is that

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Speaker 1: not typically happening. I do that more on just the

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Speaker 1: mental health side because I love working with other people.

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Speaker 1: But I think that would be really dope to do

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Speaker 1: that though, because I always think it's funny where a

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Speaker 1: lot of my clients would be like, yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: saw my therapist yesterday and I was showing her your

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Speaker 1: video and I was like, are you serious, And she's

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Speaker 1: like yeah, she subscribed, though and I'm like, are you serious,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, oh wow, this is so interesting. But

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Speaker 1: I think that would be a beautiful thing because in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways, I can see how a person's

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Speaker 1: spiritual growth and evolution can be kind of left out

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Speaker 1: of our process a lot of times, and therapy like

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Speaker 1: just depending on the therapist really, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: people don't know that that's a place that you can

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Speaker 1: bring that to us. You know, even if you believe

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Speaker 1: something totally different than your therapist does, it's like that's

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Speaker 1: one of those places you want to bring that in.

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Speaker 1: But I really would love to work like as a group.

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Speaker 1: I think that would be amazing because with everything I do,

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Speaker 1: I'm always thinking about the best interest of the client,

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Speaker 1: always right specifically. I mean you talked about how people

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Speaker 1: will often feel blocked, right, and so I would imagine

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Speaker 1: that some of these blocks are getting in the work,

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Speaker 1: in the way of their clinical work. Yeah, man, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And that's where I say it's like, I would love

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Speaker 1: to be able to to work with other therapists in

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Speaker 1: that arena, because that's something now that has been coming up,

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Speaker 1: is because the astrology and the terror and numerology and

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Speaker 1: all these different spiritual modalities are starting to come into

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Speaker 1: the forefront. There was an article actually in The New

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Speaker 1: York Times about it that a lot of therapists are

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Speaker 1: struggling because they have clients coming in saying things like

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I should do my session this

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Speaker 1: week because you know, mercury is in retrogrape, right, And

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Speaker 1: it's like a lot of therapists that aren't familiar with

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Speaker 1: that side of things are like rushing trying to learn

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Speaker 1: this stuff to be able to meet their clients where

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Speaker 1: they are. So I would love to be a bridge

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Speaker 1: for that because it isn't the easiest thing in the world.

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Speaker 1: It's like spirituality. And I even say I give the

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Speaker 1: same respect to astrologers because I know a little bit

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Speaker 1: about astrology, but it's I realized when I was learning more,

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Speaker 1: like you can get a PhD in astrology literally, So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I know how much I've studied, how I've

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Speaker 1: done clinicals and board exams to do what it is

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Speaker 1: that I do. So I was like, I have to

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Speaker 1: give you all respect for what y'all doing, because I

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Speaker 1: know it's not easy. You can't learn everything that any

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Speaker 1: therapist knows overnight or just from reading a book, you know. So,

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Speaker 1: I think it's important for the spiritual community as well

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Speaker 1: as the psychology community to be able to come together

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Speaker 1: to kind of help each other out. But I would

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Speaker 1: love to be a bridge between those two because they're

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Speaker 1: one and the same. Really, So, can you talk more

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Speaker 1: about the training, Like is there training required? Like how

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Speaker 1: do you learn to read the tarot cards? Well, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of different ways you can learn to read

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Speaker 1: the tarot. There's some people who have intuitive gifts and

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Speaker 1: they will just read it intuitively. Then you have people

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Speaker 1: who have literally learned because I I know some people

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Speaker 1: who have learned tarot just simply by watching, like watching

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Speaker 1: other readers on YouTube. But the route that I went

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Speaker 1: is the long drawn out route. So it's me studying

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Speaker 1: the history and a lot of it is incorporated with

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Speaker 1: things that I know outside of it, like different religions

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Speaker 1: I'm familiar with, and just the whole process of ascension

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Speaker 1: and spiritual evolution and taking into account Judaism and Christianity

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Speaker 1: and Buddhism, and being really into symbology within itself an eptomology.

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Speaker 1: There's so many mediums that are incorporated into tarot. So

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Speaker 1: for me, I kind of went around the world, and

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Speaker 1: I incorporate a lot of what I know from other

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Speaker 1: disciplines into Tarot. But simply if you wanted to learn,

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Speaker 1: you really could just grab a deck, grab a great

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Speaker 1: book on it. And I always suggest people start with

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Speaker 1: oracle cards though, because with those it's a little easier

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Speaker 1: as opposed to a learning that whole discipline to tarot.

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Speaker 1: But it's really a means of memorization and all. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: if a person was reading for themselves, they probably wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to memorize if they didn't want to. You could

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Speaker 1: literally just pick a card, go into the book, and

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Speaker 1: you know, see what that particular card means. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: can you explain more about that? Because you told us

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Speaker 1: before like you will pull some cards and then have

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Speaker 1: the client tell you a story about it. But it

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Speaker 1: sounds like there are meanings behind the card. So how

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Speaker 1: do you marry the two of those? I'm married the

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Speaker 1: two of them in a sense. For me, I give

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Speaker 1: respect to each author of each deck, and I read

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Speaker 1: their books and I see kind of where their headspaces

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Speaker 1: at because each deck has like a theme, but the

431
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: symbols and each one, especially the more modern decks, I

432
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: say the more modern decks are a little easier to

433
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: learn with for someone who's new because the pictures are

434
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: very literal, so it's kind of like if you see,

435
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 1: like if you think of the Chariot card, for instance,

436
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: and one of the more modern decks, they have like

437
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: a mom who is driving her car, like with her kids,

438
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: like looking all happy in the back seat. So it's like, oh,

439
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: let's see if I get the car, it's like traveling

440
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: forward movement, you know, like everyone is in their seat,

441
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,239
Speaker 1: built in, safe type of deal. So you kind of

442
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: garner it from the pictures with the older decks, which

443
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: are the ones that I prefer because it's more of

444
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: that collective, subconscious symbolism, and those are the ones that

445
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: I use in sessions with clients where they're speaking from

446
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: a place that is greater than them that they may

447
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: not even be aware of, because from what I know

448
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: of Tarot, I've never had one client who's ever done

449
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: that and been wrong and they don't know anything, like

450
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, Chariot is this, but they can look

451
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: at the card and they suddenly see something entirely different.

452
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: And I just think it's beautiful to see a person

453
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: who maybe a novice or maybe a person who's like

454
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: a die hard like tero reader watcher, but they can

455
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: still look at cards and see an entirely different narratives.

456
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: So I believe it's that part of us, that greater

457
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 1: part of us that speaks almost too that I could

458
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: say that it reptilian part of the human brain, if

459
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,239
Speaker 1: you will, where those common things that were naturally afraid of,

460
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 1: like why we avoid spiders or we avoid snakes. It's

461
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: like that very primal part of humanity is what I

462
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,959
Speaker 1: feel they're speaking from. Mm hmmm. So I know that you,

463
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, you can just get a deck for

464
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: yourself and kind of start doing this on your own.

465
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: What kinds of suggestions would you have for someone who

466
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: is maybe wanting to explore this more by themselves, Like

467
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: how can they get started in? Like how might they

468
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: use it? I would always say there's one particular deck

469
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: that I absolutely adore. It's not a tarot deck. It's

470
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: an oracle deck. It's called the the Chokra Oracle, and

471
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: the author of that deck I absolutely love how she

472
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: did it because the entire deck is based on the

473
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: Chokra system. But it's all about personal development, and I

474
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: think that's a great deck to start with. Pretty much

475
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: all of my clients who asked me to suggest a deck,

476
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: that's always the one that I suggest for them to

477
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: start with because the pictures are not scary or anything

478
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: like that. And I love how she wrote the book

479
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: because it's based on fables. So usually I always suggest

480
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: to start with just one card, like if you just

481
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: picked the card for a day. And a lot of

482
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,719
Speaker 1: my clients we do journaling, so whether they're using an

483
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: oracle card or they're using a tarot deck, and the mornings,

484
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: a lot of my clients will pick a card and

485
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: those who are familiar will just go by what they

486
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: feel intuitively what it means, and then others will go

487
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: to like a book and see what it means, read

488
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: about it, and then they'll journal for about fifteen or

489
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: twenty minutes in the morning. And the good thing about

490
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: that is is it ends up becoming like an affirmation

491
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: for the rest of the day. So if they end

492
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: up facing a challenge that one of the characters in

493
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: the story faced, it's like, I need to not do

494
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: this and I need to do that. So it helps

495
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: with self awareness. So I like to say it's like,

496
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: of course, people use terror for divination and like trying

497
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: to see the future when my husband coming in things

498
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: and sort. You know, that's what it's traditionally been used for,

499
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: but I feel that I've stepped away from that and

500
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: the fact that with my clients for myself on my channel,

501
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: my main thing is always to use it to garner

502
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: insight into yourself. Try to see something that you may

503
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 1: not be seeing. If you feel that that card doesn't

504
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: align with what you're going through right now, try to

505
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: find ways that it's not aligning with you, because if

506
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: you know it isn't, then you should know why, right,

507
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: Because all of that starts to create this conversation I

508
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: feel we all should have within ourselves, and it's almost

509
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: that igniter to that self awareness and that familiarity I

510
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: feel we should all have with ourselves. And so you

511
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: mentioned these are oracle cards. Can you tell me like

512
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: the difference between those and maybe the other decks you used? Absolutely,

513
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: with Tarot, that's every deck, whether they're old ones or

514
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: new ones. Tarot follows a very strict system and there's

515
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: specific suits. There's a certain number of cards. It would

516
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: have to have a major arcana, a minor arcana, and

517
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: the court cards. So with all Tarot decks they're usually

518
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: gonna follow that same system whenever it falls into the

519
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: arena of an oracle. There are some like the Psychic

520
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: Tarot would be an example of this. It's an oracle

521
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: deck they call it, and I'm using my air quotations

522
00:29:55,320 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: as if someone could see men oracle deck. But it

523
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: follows the system of Tarot, except it doesn't have the

524
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: court cards. So because it doesn't include the court cards,

525
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: it falls into like oracle. So with oracle cards, they

526
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: don't have a system. It's more or less whatever the

527
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: purpose of the deck is, and it's usually maybe about

528
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: fifty two cards that will be in a typical oracle deck.

529
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: But with those it's more or less very direct messages,

530
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: so as opposed to with Tarot, where you're kind of

531
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: gleaning to get a message from the cards, or you

532
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: have to memorize the cards to understand how they combine

533
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: and are put together. With oracle, it's more straight to

534
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: the point. So you could pick one and it will

535
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: be like self sabotage, right, and you can flip it

536
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: over and it'll have a little message on it that's

537
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: like your self sabotaging. These are the ways that you

538
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: self sabotage, and these are the ways that you should

539
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: not self sabotage. So with the oracle is more straight

540
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: to the point, and I think for someone who's new,

541
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: that's a little easier and it's a little more palatable,

542
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: especially because I always take into account just the taboo

543
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: nature of tarot and the fact that a lot of

544
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: people are terrified by the cards period. But I always

545
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: stress its legit ink on paper. I always want to

546
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: tell people, but just starting out, I would always suggest

547
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: oracles until you kind of open up to graduate to tarot,

548
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: and taro is a little bit more regimented, in structured,

549
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: I would say, and oracles a little bit more free spirited.

550
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: And you mentioned it sounds like a book typically comes

551
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: with the deck so that you can read more behind,

552
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: like the purpose of the deck. Absolutely, and then there

553
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: are some people who have written books where it's like

554
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: a deep dive interpretation of cards, but it usually it's

555
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: always going to go by the right weight interpretation. Got it.

556
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: So can you share a little bit more about this taboo?

557
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure some of it is like a

558
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: Christianity religious kind of thing, but can you share more

559
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: about why they're so much taboo. I think it's because

560
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: it scares people because it's a lack of understanding, is

561
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: what I find. And I think even with me being

562
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: a therapist, it's a lot of people who will find

563
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: out I do tero and they're shocked because it's like,

564
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: but your license professional, how how do you do that? Right?

565
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: But I really feel the root of it is and

566
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: it's like a religious kind of fear, and it's one

567
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: of those things where it's a conditioning, to be quite honest,

568
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: we fear what we don't understand. So it's really a

569
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: lack of understanding of what the cards are, what they mean,

570
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: where they come from. Taking things very literally, you know

571
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: what I mean? That I feel is at the root

572
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: of that taboo because it falls into that realm of

573
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: occultism and things of that nature. But I really feel

574
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: it's just a lack of understanding about it, as with

575
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: lots of things, right, I mean, but like we've already

576
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: talked about in a lot of ways, they are really

577
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: kind of being used as projectives at least the way

578
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: you're describing it. Absolutely, that's one way you probably can

579
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: use it. Absolutely, Yeah, definitely, Yeah, And I say it

580
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: isn't much different than I know when I was in

581
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: church A lot of times it's like I need a

582
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: word and you're gonna open up your Bible and like

583
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: flip in the first scripture that you land on. It's like,

584
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: that's gonna be my word for today, you know. So

585
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: I don't really see the difference between the two. I

586
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: just think it's the stigma, if you will, in the

587
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: lack of understanding of terror that makes people fear it.

588
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: Got it? Got it? So you mentioned earlier that people

589
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: are most afraid of the double card and the death card,

590
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like quite literally, like you said,

591
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: they don't necessarily mean that. What can you explain more

592
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: about what it might mean for you to pull those cards? Oh? Absolutely,

593
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: there's three cards that every person is usually terrified of

594
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: in the terror and I would say more people who

595
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: don't know anything about terror or terrified by the Devil

596
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: and by the death card. And I think people who

597
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,919
Speaker 1: know about Taro, they're terrified of the Tower card as

598
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: well as the Devil card of the Death card. But

599
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: the truth of these cards are like the Tower of

600
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: the Three is my absolute most favorite card to see

601
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: in a reading. But with the devil card first, that

602
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: speaks to addictions and mental bondage. It's the things that

603
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: we do to fill that void that we have in

604
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: our souls and our hearts and our emotional space. It

605
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: speaks to the lack of homeostasis in our lives and

606
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: how when we don't stay balanced, we end up falling

607
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: to one side or the other. And I always see

608
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: like one side or the other of the Laard scale.

609
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: So even too much of a good thing still isn't good.

610
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: So that card usually speaks to addictions if you see

611
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: it in the reverse and it's being freed from those addictions,

612
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 1: meaning that you're having an epiphany or you're getting insight

613
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: into realizing that you were ever bound in the first place.

614
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: With the death card, I love that card too because

615
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 1: it's all about transformation, because in a very literal sense,

616
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: if you think about someone passing away, it's a transition

617
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: into another state of being. So it's more or less

618
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: that card speaks to one's personal evolution. There's something in

619
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: your life that's falling away that isn't gonna follow you

620
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: into the next space. But it's also a statement of

621
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: freedom of you being better than you were once upon

622
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: a time, because every new beginning first begins with an

623
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: ending and then with the tower card. I love that

624
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,959
Speaker 1: so much because I look at that card as mindsets

625
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: being broken down. So like I spoke about what a

626
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 1: lot of my client's experience with mental blocks, I see

627
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: that as like a higher power saving you from yourself. Right,

628
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: So I like to think about that with like bound

629
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: undrease or trauma, woundings, different things that we've been through,

630
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: and in destrult therapy we think about it. It's like

631
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: another brick in the wall. It's like your entire life

632
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: as a giant brick wall, and every single experience you've

633
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: been through is a brick, and each brick represents a

634
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 1: trauma or a hurt or disappointment, and everything you've gone

635
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: through throughout the course of your life, you've built up

636
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: this huge tower to protect yourself from ever experiencing it again.

637
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: But the thing that you cease to realize while you

638
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 1: were building it is you were going higher and higher,

639
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: but farther and farther away from people who do care,

640
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: to people who would fight for you, two people who

641
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: would listen to you. So it's almost a prison of

642
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 1: one's own making. So why the tower crumbles is because

643
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: the higher power, spirit, God, whatever term you use, is

644
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: saving you from yourself because you're not seeing that while

645
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: you're trying to save yourself, you're inadvertently destroying yourself. So

646
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: people fear it because it's a quote unquote destruction, but

647
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: it's not seeing until it's crumbled how you were actually

648
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: hurting yourself. So those are the three cards people are

649
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: afraid of, but the truth behind them is nothing to

650
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: fear at all. M Yeah, I can see how that

651
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: would be incredibly useful in therapy to like share people's

652
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: stories around any of those. Yeah. And I can see

653
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: what you mean by the blocks, right, Like if there's

654
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: something that you're just not wanting to talk about or

655
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: even consciously you can't bring it up yet, but then

656
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: it gets triggered by seeing these cards. Absolutely yeah, absolutely,

657
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 1: So which cards are people typically most excited to get? Oh? Wow,

658
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: that would be the Two of Cups, the Ace of Cups,

659
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: the Ten of Cups, and the Star card and the

660
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: Sun card. Those are all the cards that people want

661
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 1: to see because of course all of those cup cards,

662
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 1: two cups, Ace cups to the cups, all those speak

663
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: to love an emotional fulfillment and not in the Star

664
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: card that is like the absolute best card in the deck,

665
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: because that means that like hope is restored, balances here,

666
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: blessings are coming. And with the Sun card it's the same.

667
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: Means my interpretation of the Sun card is slightly different

668
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: than the fact that I feel that it's it speaks

669
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: to the art of vulnerability, and on the spiritual side,

670
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: it's and I know they say in the Bible that

671
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, you must

672
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: be like a little child. And I see that more

673
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: or less of what the whole spiritual evolution process is about.

674
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 1: It's about getting back to that inner child, that person

675
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: you were before your trauma, the person you were before

676
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: your wounding, that child that believed in magic, that child

677
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: that believed in dreams. So I feel that that's a

678
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: Ford telling of a person really starting to get it,

679
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: really starting to evolve, really starting to grow, and now

680
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 1: their external world is starting to manifest all the work

681
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: that they've done within. But most people look at that

682
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: as a love card too, Yeah, got it. It's the

683
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: love cards of the loves that everybody wants to get.

684
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: Got it. So you mentioned yourself that you have been

685
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: using this Harrold cause, but then really figured out, Okay,

686
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: there's some additional work that needs to be done in therapy.

687
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: And so I'm wondering if you can share how people

688
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 1: might know that line, right, Like, maybe people are kind

689
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 1: of individually using tarot or astrology or something, how might

690
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: they know that they might need to add therapy in

691
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: addition to what they might be doing. I would say,

692
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: when you hit a plateau, and it's much like when

693
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: you're going to the gym and you know you're dedicated

694
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: to your workout plan and you drop a whole bunch

695
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: of weight and you're starting to see results, and then

696
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: suddenly a couple of months passed and you just have

697
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: not lost the power no matter what you do. It's

698
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: like when you're in that place in your growth process.

699
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: And I feel even people who have successfully completed therapy,

700
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: people who even our therapists, because I always tell my

701
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: clients that to like, sometimes a therapist will see a therapist.

702
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: I need you to know because we find ourselves in

703
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 1: different places in life and different experiences. But I feel

704
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: the general thing is when you start to feel stagnant

705
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: and when you're not even understanding it's when you can

706
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 1: cognitively understand Okay, I self sabotage and I have a

707
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: block right, but I'm still doing it though it's like

708
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: I understand everything around it. It's like I understand what

709
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm doing, I get how I'm doing it, but why

710
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: am I still doing it? Whenever a person starts to

711
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: feel in that space where you have the knowledge but

712
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: you haven't quite gotten the understanding, that's usually when I

713
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: find that it helps a great deal when you kind

714
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: of hit a roadblock. But it's not like rock bottom roadblock.

715
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: It's just like I don't even understand what I know

716
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: I'm doing it. I just don't know how I'm doing it.

717
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: Like why do I do this? Would you find just

718
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: so said I need to get my life together? Why

719
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: do I keep doing this? I think that's the time.

720
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: I think that's the time most certainly got it? Got it?

721
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: And are there some guidelines that people would want to

722
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: kind of pay attention to in working with somebody to

723
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: retall for them, or there's some things questions they should

724
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: ask things to be on the lookout for. How do

725
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: you know you'd be working with somebody who's like reputable

726
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: at the present time to be honest there is not

727
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: any accrediting body. There isn't any guidelines or anything of

728
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,439
Speaker 1: the sort to know if you're working with someone that's

729
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: credible and that's actually on the back end, which is interesting.

730
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: That's what I'm actually working on. I'm working on a

731
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: book from both sides for people to be able to

732
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: understand from a therapeutic perspective, with case studies, all that

733
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: good stuff, how you can include this with a client

734
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: and for per them who would want to use it

735
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: for themselves in their own personal development journey is giving

736
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: guidelines for it because at present there really isn't anything

737
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 1: that speaks to how to do this. Got it? Okay?

738
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 1: So we just all have to be on the lookout

739
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: for your book forthcoming. Be on the lookouts for the

740
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: Terror Fair every book. I love it. I love it.

741
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: So what are some of your favorite resources for people

742
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: who maybe are interested in learning more kind of want

743
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 1: to dig a little deeper into what you shared today.

744
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: I would say one of my favorite resources, it's a

745
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: book called Tarot Made Easy. That's a book I love.

746
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: One of my favorite people that she doesn't like countless

747
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: books on tarot. Actually it's Diddy Taro. A lot of

748
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: people know about her. She was like the first o

749
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: G to start to popularize tarot many many years ago.

750
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: But a lot of her books and even her Tarot Deck,

751
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: which is based on the writer Weight, I love her

752
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: interpretations because it's called the Everyday Taro. I love her

753
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: interpretations because they're very literal every day so even with

754
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: her interpretations of scary cards, it's really just like, yes,

755
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: well you block right now, you're gonna be all right.

756
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, I love her work and I can't remember

757
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: who the author of that book is. But Easy Terror

758
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: is another really great book because it's very simplistic. It's

759
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,479
Speaker 1: very straight to the point. Because I hate to see

760
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: people get kind of bogged down with feeling as if

761
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: they need to learn the whole discipline. I would only

762
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: say go that route if you're an enthusiast, but I think, yeah,

763
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: be chopperate Oracle Deck. The Psychic Taro is another good

764
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: one in Everyday Taro. I think her name is Bridget,

765
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: but everyone knows her as Bitty Tarot got it. We

766
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: definitely will include all of those in the show knows

767
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: we appreciate it. For today's press pause moment, I thought

768
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: it would be nice to have Princess India draw few

769
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: cards for us that you can then journal about if

770
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: you'd like. All right, so, Princess India, you've agreed to

771
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: share a couple of cards for our community to jump

772
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: start them with some journaling prompts. So would you pick

773
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: a couple of cards for us or go ahead and

774
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 1: shuffle up a little bit. All right, let's see what

775
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 1: we've got. I'm so excited. So tell me what decker

776
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: you you are? Oh okay, first card we have is

777
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: the Seven of Wands. Then we have the Nine of Wands,

778
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: and then we have the Six of Wands. These are

779
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: all wands cards. Okay, come through with the Seven of Wands.

780
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: That's all about standing your ground. This usually will speak

781
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: to people who are in situations where in work drama

782
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: where you feel that you're fighting in you're desperately trying

783
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: to stay above water, but you feel that it's always

784
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 1: one step forward, two steps back. But it's always feeling

785
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: is if you're being attacked by other people. And the

786
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: important part of this is establishing healthy boundaries, knowing that

787
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: you need to stand your ground and not allowing what

788
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: other people are doing to determine what's possible for you.

789
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: Now with the nine of Wands, I call this my

790
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: PTSD card because this is all about hyper vigilance. This

791
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: is I've been through so much stuff in my past.

792
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,439
Speaker 1: I'm battle weary, I'm tired, I'm on my last leg

793
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 1: and I don't know if I can continue to move

794
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: forward right. But it's making sure that you keep in

795
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: mind why it is that you're fighting, what it is

796
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: that you're headed towards right and not allowing anything around you,

797
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: any people around you, to deter you. And lastly, with

798
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: the six of Wandes, that's a card of victory. So

799
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: it more or less would be speaking to a person

800
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: who has fought for a very very long time alone

801
00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: for themselves, that's finally made it to the top of

802
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: the mountain. But they're weary, they're on their last leg.

803
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: But the last card is ensuring that they should keep

804
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: going because your victory is just around the corner. Love it. So,

805
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: if you do want to take the opportunity to journal

806
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: about any or all of the cards that she has

807
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: pooled for us, we would love for you to share

808
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: that with us if you feel comfortable. So, Princess India,

809
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: where can people find you? What is your website? As

810
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: well as any social media channels that you want to share.

811
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 1: My website is the Woke Therapist dot com, I'm Woke

812
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 1: Therapist on Twitter, the Woke Therapist on Instagram, and my

813
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: channel on YouTube is Tero Therapy by the Woke Therapist

814
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 1: Perfect and all of that will be in the show

815
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: notes as well well. Thank you so much for spending

816
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: time with us and sharing your expertise. I really appreciate it.

817
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad

818
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: Princess India was able to join us for today's conversation.

819
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 1: I know many of you will have follow up questions

820
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: for her, so she'll actually be joining us for a

821
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: Q and a session in the Yellow Couch Collective on

822
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: November thirtem Eastern Standard time. So if you'd like to

823
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: join us for that conversation or check out the resources

824
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: that she shared, be sure to visit the show notes

825
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session one eight,

826
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: and be sure to share this episode with two other

827
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: sisters who might enjoy the conversation. If there's a topic

828
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: you'd like to have covered on the podcast, please ad

829
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: minute to us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com

830
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: slash mailbox, and if you're looking for a therapist in

831
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory

832
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. Thank

833
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me again this week. A

834
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: little forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

835
00:47:49,640 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: Take get care what