1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,240
Speaker 1: Blood on the Tracks is the production of I Heart

2
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:06,560
Speaker 1: Radio and Double Elvis. Phil Spector was a musical genius,

3
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,320
Speaker 1: one of the most successful record producers of all time.

4
00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,240
Speaker 1: He's now sitting behind bars, serving a nineteen years to

5
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,840
Speaker 1: life sentence for murder. This is his story told by

6
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:28,840
Speaker 1: a so called friends. This is Special Agent Paul Ramon

7
00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: with the Federal Bureau of Investigation work in case number

8
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,280
Speaker 1: double oh four DASH ten DASH seven four one nine

9
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,040
Speaker 1: case subject to Specter Philip Harvey. This information pertains to

10
00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,519
Speaker 1: a period ending November thirteen, seventy seven. Interview subject as

11
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 1: Cohen Leonard Norman Interview number six STAPH six six Dash

12
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 1: seven one nine DASH seven seven seven Recall number six

13
00:00:49,880 --> 00:01:02,000
Speaker 1: October thirty, two thousand and six. The state that I

14
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 1: found fill in was post Wagnerian. I would go as

15
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 1: far as to say that he was less like Wagner

16
00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,560
Speaker 1: more like Hitler. In The atmosphere was one of guns.

17
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that's really what was going on. Guns, guns,

18
00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,959
Speaker 1: guns and more guns. The music was subsidiary. It was

19
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,560
Speaker 1: an enterprise. People were armed at the te his friends,

20
00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 1: his bodyguards. Everybody was drunk er, intoxicated. Otherwise I was

21
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 1: just holding on a dear life. My family was breaking

22
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 1: up at the time, and just to show up was wrong,

23
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,000
Speaker 1: and then I'd have to go through this ninth grade

24
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,880
Speaker 1: military film noir atmosphere. I remember one time with the

25
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,800
Speaker 1: Viole Empire. Fill didn't like the way he was playing,

26
00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,600
Speaker 1: so he walked out into the studio and pulled it

27
00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,360
Speaker 1: down on the par guy. He didn't spill any blood

28
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 1: in there, thankfully. Let me tell you, you could see it,

29
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: the carnage, psychological carnage. You could see the blood on

30
00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:36,400
Speaker 1: the tracks. Chapter five, Phil Specter and Leonard Cohen. I

31
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't say that I was terrified that first night at

32
00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 1: Phil's mansion. Don't write that down. Don't let the record

33
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,680
Speaker 1: reflect terrified. It was more like I was frustrated and

34
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 1: annoyed and put out. I was tired and just wanted

35
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,680
Speaker 1: to go home. I was there all night, As you know,

36
00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 1: that's a well worn tale. I think we all have

37
00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,080
Speaker 1: a tale like that, don't we, All of us who

38
00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,480
Speaker 1: worked with Phil. We all that one night at Phil's

39
00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 1: mansion town. I was there with Suzanne, but we've been

40
00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,639
Speaker 1: together almost ten years at that point, not quite I guess,

41
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,839
Speaker 1: and the kids were a few years old. By then,

42
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:17,160
Speaker 1: this is V. Seven. Things weren't great with us. I

43
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,000
Speaker 1: can't say if they were ever really great. I sang

44
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:21,960
Speaker 1: about it at that time, and I tried to leave you.

45
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 1: I closed the book on us at least a hundred times.

46
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,520
Speaker 1: When I first arrived at the place on La Colina,

47
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 1: I was already fragile, drinking, heavily, dipping my big toe

48
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 1: into Buddhism and Mount Baldi. I was moving in multiple

49
00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,920
Speaker 1: directions at the same time, reaching, wandering, searching. I didn't

50
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:46,280
Speaker 1: really know what was going on. It was Marty Matchett

51
00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 1: who set the whole thing up. He was my lawyer,

52
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 1: and turns out he was Phil's lawyer too. Both Phil

53
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 1: and I hadn't put anything out in a few years.

54
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 1: We were both a bit lost at the moment. I

55
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 1: suppose we were both Jews, both sons of immigrants, both

56
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,120
Speaker 1: lost our father when we were nine. Murty saw it

57
00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,080
Speaker 1: as a sympatico parent, even if people on the outside

58
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,680
Speaker 1: looking in so otherwise. So when you sign on to

59
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,200
Speaker 1: work with Phil Specter, you go to the big house

60
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 1: first up the hill from the strip, very regal Hollywood,

61
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, lording over it all from above, very castle

62
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:23,559
Speaker 1: in the air. It's got this big fountain out front,

63
00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,880
Speaker 1: a pool out back, and the ominous barbed wire fencing

64
00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,120
Speaker 1: gives way to welcoming gardens, your typical Hollywood opulence. It

65
00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 1: was a dinner party that we were invited to. Me

66
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,839
Speaker 1: and Suzanne and a few others were there as well.

67
00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 1: The night we're on and people left, and like I

68
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,839
Speaker 1: said earlier, I was tired. It was nice to chat

69
00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:44,919
Speaker 1: with Phil, put in the time and all that, but

70
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to continue another day. It was late. I

71
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 1: stood up from the table and thanked him for the

72
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 1: food and conversation, complimented him on the house. I told

73
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,479
Speaker 1: him that we would be leaving. Phil had other plans.

74
00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: He snapped his fingers at the people he had were

75
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,320
Speaker 1: working for him, Yes, man, though some of them had

76
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,320
Speaker 1: a bodyguard air to them. He snapped his fingers in

77
00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,640
Speaker 1: their general direction, like a man who had snapped many

78
00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,359
Speaker 1: a finger in many a general direction, and said, don't

79
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,320
Speaker 1: let them leave. And these men locked the doors, and

80
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,719
Speaker 1: then they stood near us at the table where I

81
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 1: had sat back down, with their holstered weapons in plain view.

82
00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,240
Speaker 1: You don't want to leave, now, do you, Leonard? They'll

83
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,719
Speaker 1: ask me, why don't you sit back down and stay

84
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:32,159
Speaker 1: Awhile his voice was somewhere between wounded friend and the

85
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,440
Speaker 1: playground and vindictive bully plotting his revenge. He would always

86
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,640
Speaker 1: strike a balance between those extremes in my mind, though

87
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:44,760
Speaker 1: I suppose balances to forgiving. He swung emotionally into one

88
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 1: side or the other. He swung hard and definitively for

89
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 1: a moment, a definitive moment. In that moment, he stood

90
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 1: at the head of the table, his fists firmly on

91
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:59,040
Speaker 1: the table surface. His fists were helping him steady himself.

92
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,040
Speaker 1: He must have felt taller than he actually was. I

93
00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,360
Speaker 1: sat back down, and Suzanne was sitting down. His yes

94
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,719
Speaker 1: men were standing there too, a handful of them silent,

95
00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 1: yet it was obvious what they were there to do

96
00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:18,800
Speaker 1: and what they could also do if needed. Suzanne was

97
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,159
Speaker 1: plenty disturbed at the situation for both of us, and

98
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,599
Speaker 1: at first she thought it was a joke. What she

99
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,799
Speaker 1: realized that Phil was dead serious. She panicked a little.

100
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,640
Speaker 1: I took her hand in mind to steady air to

101
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,599
Speaker 1: ground her. Things were so shaky with us at that

102
00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 1: point in time. This whole being held hostage nonsense was

103
00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 1: the last thing I needed, Like I said earlier. I

104
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,400
Speaker 1: was just put out, and I figured, if I'm going

105
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,280
Speaker 1: to be put out, I may as well be productive,

106
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,600
Speaker 1: may as well be proactive. The whole room was tent,

107
00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,520
Speaker 1: so I suggested we sit down at the piano and

108
00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,480
Speaker 1: start to hammer out some ideas. No time like the present,

109
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,120
Speaker 1: and that was the start of our collaboration. I can't

110
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,359
Speaker 1: say I've ever written while being held hostage before or since.

111
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 1: I also can't say whether the caliber of the songs

112
00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:16,320
Speaker 1: we produced was worth it in the end. When the

113
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,600
Speaker 1: sun rose the next morning, Phil's men unlocked the doors

114
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,560
Speaker 1: at the mansion. When Susanne and I anxiously walked outside

115
00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,280
Speaker 1: and returned home, she made me promise I'd never go

116
00:07:27,400 --> 00:08:01,280
Speaker 1: back there again. It had been a few years since

117
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,960
Speaker 1: my last record. I was trying to determine what I

118
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,680
Speaker 1: should do next, what kind of a record I should make.

119
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,559
Speaker 1: I went back to Hydra, the island off the coast

120
00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 1: of Greece. The police wouldn't let go of me. It

121
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,640
Speaker 1: doesn't let go of many people who visit. Hydro was

122
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 1: rooftops that looked like burnt oranges, a sea that seemed

123
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,360
Speaker 1: to drift off. In the mythology, Hydro was mary Anne.

124
00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,000
Speaker 1: Once he lived on Hydra. You can't live anywhere else

125
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,600
Speaker 1: including Hydro. Eventually I came back to the U S

126
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,559
Speaker 1: rented a house in Brentwood, close to Sunset Boulevard, relatively

127
00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,640
Speaker 1: close to Phil Specter, though I wasn't completely aware of

128
00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,360
Speaker 1: that at the time. I went to l A because

129
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,520
Speaker 1: Roshi was there, my teacher, a true zen master. He

130
00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:50,880
Speaker 1: was at the Zen Center on Normandy. I thought Roshi

131
00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,640
Speaker 1: would provide some balance to my life, that maybe he

132
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,840
Speaker 1: would keep me on track, keep me out of trouble,

133
00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,400
Speaker 1: keep me from getting in my own way. Roshi really

134
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,280
Speaker 1: wanted me to move myself to Mount Baldi, take Susanne

135
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,280
Speaker 1: and the kids, and immerse myself in study. And I'll

136
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:12,320
Speaker 1: admit the slowdown was needed and the self reflection. I

137
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 1: already had a few indulgences in my life, but true

138
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 1: indulgences are like habits, you know, they die hard. But

139
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 1: Mount Baldi would whittle the remaining few away. One indulgence

140
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,720
Speaker 1: was travel. I allowed myself to go anywhere I wanted

141
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,280
Speaker 1: at any time, and the trade office that I had

142
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 1: very few possessions. All I needed was a bed, a chair,

143
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,720
Speaker 1: a table. Another indulgence was the Company of Women. Hydro

144
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,160
Speaker 1: may have been a small island, but it was overrun.

145
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,240
Speaker 1: With company. Mount Baldi would take away the indulgences, take

146
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 1: away the wander lust and the other lust. But the

147
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,360
Speaker 1: time just wasn't right. Let me say it this way.

148
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,840
Speaker 1: In hindsight, the time was probably right, but I wasn't

149
00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,079
Speaker 1: ready to admit the time was right just yet. I

150
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 1: figured being in close approximity to Rows, she was good enough.

151
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,640
Speaker 1: I could learn from him when I felt like it.

152
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 1: I could reach out to him when I needed to,

153
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:11,720
Speaker 1: But I could keep one foot in the world of

154
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,880
Speaker 1: indulgence for a little bit longer. This way. While I

155
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,200
Speaker 1: was out on the road touring behind New Skin for

156
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,120
Speaker 1: the Old Ceremony, that's the record. Before my collaboration with Phil,

157
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,520
Speaker 1: I played a residency at the Troubadour in West Hollywood,

158
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,920
Speaker 1: True Blue l A territory. This is the place where

159
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 1: Tom Waits, Elton John and Joni Mitchell all began. It

160
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,560
Speaker 1: was a five night run, two shows a night, and

161
00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,120
Speaker 1: every single show was sold out. Phil attended one of

162
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,240
Speaker 1: the shows. He was there with Lenny Bruce's kid. We

163
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,560
Speaker 1: chatted briefly between sets. He looked to me like a

164
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,040
Speaker 1: man who had been constructed by a team of people

165
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,800
Speaker 1: who had been asked to create a Hollywood record producer

166
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:56,880
Speaker 1: from a backstage closet full of costumes and props. His

167
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,800
Speaker 1: hair was a big, frilly puffball. It came all the

168
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,240
Speaker 1: way near his shoulders, and it was gray, which conflicted

169
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,600
Speaker 1: with the color of his drooping handlebar mustache, which was black.

170
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,439
Speaker 1: The frames of his tinted glasses eclipsed his eyes. The

171
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,319
Speaker 1: lapels on his shirt looked like they should be registered weapons,

172
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 1: they were so sharp. And this was Phil had been

173
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 1: in a serious car accident just the year before. He

174
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 1: was driving his Rolls Royce down Melrose and he hit

175
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,360
Speaker 1: another car head on it threw him through the front window.

176
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:39,240
Speaker 1: He had to have multiple plastic surgeries. He told me

177
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,559
Speaker 1: this later. He told me he was still picking pieces

178
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,600
Speaker 1: of glass from his face years later. Even during our

179
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:50,559
Speaker 1: recording sessions. He would be standing there ordering around one

180
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 1: musician or another, and then he just paused, raised his

181
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,920
Speaker 1: hand to his cheek or his chin, and pull out

182
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,720
Speaker 1: a reclusive shard. They would just work themselves out, piece

183
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,040
Speaker 1: by piece. He told everyone that the crash made him deaf.

184
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,680
Speaker 1: In one year that Brian Wilson wasn't the only half

185
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,160
Speaker 1: deaf genius in town anymore, but it had it. He

186
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,280
Speaker 1: confided that to me in a whisper one day in

187
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,440
Speaker 1: the studio, another one of his pranks. I suppose that

188
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,640
Speaker 1: he orchestrated solely because it seemed to bring him joy,

189
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,120
Speaker 1: some sort of grotesque joy. Phil was always messing with

190
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 1: people's minds, like that, the way he looked, the way

191
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,080
Speaker 1: he acted. And then there were the times he wasn't

192
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 1: messing around, And those were the times that really snuck

193
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,640
Speaker 1: up on people, because only in the moments when Phil

194
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,160
Speaker 1: was being dead serious did anyone think he was messing around.

195
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 1: Take the night we were held hostage at his house.

196
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,199
Speaker 1: After about ten minutes, I realized that it wasn't a prank.

197
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,520
Speaker 1: Marty Matchett told the story about an incident at the

198
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,640
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills Hotel, and this was also in nine. When

199
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 1: Phil was arguing with a woman outside the lobby. It

200
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,560
Speaker 1: got pretty heated. She screamed something at him, something like

201
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,120
Speaker 1: get away from me. The valet nearby heard the commotion

202
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,560
Speaker 1: and ran over, obviously not knowing who Phil or anyone

203
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,520
Speaker 1: else was not that that matters, and asked what was

204
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 1: going on. Well, you know what happened next. Phil pulled

205
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,400
Speaker 1: a revolver from the holster inside his jacket and pointed

206
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,559
Speaker 1: it straight at the valet's head. Get the funk away

207
00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,200
Speaker 1: from me, He more in the valet, and then repeated

208
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,520
Speaker 1: the threat, get the funk away from me. It didn't

209
00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 1: matter if you were some nobody valet at the Beverly

210
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,440
Speaker 1: Hills Hotel or one of the many musicians working in

211
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,960
Speaker 1: close proximity. Bill's pranks had no loyalties, and his sudden

212
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,240
Speaker 1: bursts of hotheaded temper had no boundaries. Everyone was a target,

213
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:47,760
Speaker 1: even me. I'll never forget the day Philip pulled the

214
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:57,200
Speaker 1: gun on me in the studio. We'll be right back

215
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:05,480
Speaker 1: after this word, word word. He pulled his piece on

216
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,720
Speaker 1: Bobby Bruce. First. Bobby was the vital emplier. Phil kept

217
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,440
Speaker 1: interrupting Bobby's playing, the toll him to play a different way.

218
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,120
Speaker 1: Whatever words of encouragement or disapprove of that Phil was offering,

219
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,920
Speaker 1: Bobby wasn't listening. He was doing it the way he

220
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,040
Speaker 1: wanted to do it, which of course was the way

221
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:26,800
Speaker 1: Phil did it too. So it came to a head,

222
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,800
Speaker 1: as things often do. Phil pulled the piece from his holster,

223
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,760
Speaker 1: underneath the suit jacket, walked out of the control room

224
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,640
Speaker 1: and into the studio and pointed the revolver of Bobby,

225
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,080
Speaker 1: play it the way I told you to play it,

226
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 1: Phil screened. Now, Bobby grew up with guns. You understand.

227
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,080
Speaker 1: Guns didn't scare Bobby the way they could scare the uninitiated.

228
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,120
Speaker 1: A big shot Hollywood producer with a frizzy misshape and

229
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:56,920
Speaker 1: wig on his head and a piece in his hand

230
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:02,360
Speaker 1: didn't concern Bobby. What concerned Bobby was Phil's disrespect, his

231
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,720
Speaker 1: disrespect for guns, which he obviously didn't know the first

232
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,760
Speaker 1: thing about, and his disrespect for Bobby as a player.

233
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,800
Speaker 1: That was it for Bobby. He probably gave Phil the

234
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,680
Speaker 1: finger as he walked out of the studio. The making

235
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,960
Speaker 1: of Death of a Ladies Man, that's what the record

236
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,680
Speaker 1: will be called. The making of the thing was extremely

237
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: intense from the get go. Phil and I wrote something

238
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 1: like fifteen songs in just a few weeks, and then

239
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 1: we went straight to the studio, first Whitney Studios in Glendale,

240
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,080
Speaker 1: and then eventually, or rather inevitably, to Phil his beloved

241
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 1: gold Star in Hollywood. And this was June. But we

242
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,280
Speaker 1: were drinking a lot Phil's bottle of Menace Chevits was

243
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,160
Speaker 1: om new present. He poured in a plastic cup and

244
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,560
Speaker 1: drink it with a plastic straw like a child would

245
00:15:54,560 --> 00:16:00,840
Speaker 1: have his orange juice. The man wasn't just a dilettante

246
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,000
Speaker 1: with guns. He was with booze too. His focus was

247
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,200
Speaker 1: all over the place. He lost focus often. He wasted

248
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 1: a lot of time in the studio, which of course

249
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 1: conflicted with his reputation. One day, the door of the

250
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,400
Speaker 1: studio flung open, and in walked Bob Dylan, now in Ginsburg,

251
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 1: Dylan and a woman on each arm, a half empty

252
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,880
Speaker 1: bottle of whiskey in his hand. But we were recording

253
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 1: a song called Don't Go Home with Your Heart On,

254
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,520
Speaker 1: and Dylan and Ginsburg wound up singing backing vocals on it.

255
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,920
Speaker 1: We listened to the playback so loud that day that

256
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,080
Speaker 1: one of the speakers blew up how Phil could be

257
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,240
Speaker 1: so particular with a violin part so particular in the

258
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 1: fact that he would pull a pistol on the musician

259
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,880
Speaker 1: just to get it right, and then be so lucy

260
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 1: goosey with random appearances by songwriters and poets. It was

261
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 1: all so confusing, But then the sessions were never really

262
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,560
Speaker 1: about music. Were a day. We're about control, about impulse,

263
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 1: about being a drift in the moment and in that

264
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,960
Speaker 1: moment picking a piece of glass from your face, or

265
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 1: meditating in between cans of beer. It was obvious from

266
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 1: the first night at Phil's mansion his game was about control,

267
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,280
Speaker 1: and he maintained his control with the legion of guns.

268
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,719
Speaker 1: I laughed a lot in order to keep myself from

269
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,439
Speaker 1: being overly terrified. I suggested to Feel that perhaps I

270
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 1: would hire my own bodyguard and we would have a

271
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:30,720
Speaker 1: shootout on Sunset Boulevard, Real Wild West, Real Hollywood. But

272
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 1: we were in the middle of cutting the record. I

273
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,440
Speaker 1: can't recall what song we were working on. It was

274
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 1: either Memories or True Love Leaves No Traces. But we

275
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 1: were listening to the playback of the song, and despite

276
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 1: our drunken attempts to the contrary, the song was actually

277
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,679
Speaker 1: sounding great. We were pleased. Phil was a little too pleased,

278
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 1: it would seem. He stumbled slowly towards me, where I

279
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,240
Speaker 1: sat at the control board listening back. One hand clutched

280
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,600
Speaker 1: the bottle of men of Chevits, and the revolver was

281
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,440
Speaker 1: in his other hand. He is waving both of them around.

282
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,120
Speaker 1: One of Phil's bodyguards, George, and told me that while

283
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 1: his gun was loaded, Phils really was. But still a

284
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,280
Speaker 1: man wears a gun around in a cramp studio space

285
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 1: and you don't stop to wonder if it's loaded. So

286
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,480
Speaker 1: Phil's walking towards me, humming the melody of the song

287
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,400
Speaker 1: we're listening to under his breath. He takes the arm

288
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,159
Speaker 1: with the bottle and wraps it around my shoulder, and

289
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:31,919
Speaker 1: then with the other hand he pressed the butt of

290
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,159
Speaker 1: the revolver into my neck. It was cold. He pressed

291
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,920
Speaker 1: so hard that it felt like half of the gun

292
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 1: was lodged beneath my skin. He leaned in close and said, Leonard,

293
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,480
Speaker 1: I love you, and then he cocked the revolver. Now

294
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,440
Speaker 1: I'm not Bobby Bruce, so this particular moment did create

295
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,440
Speaker 1: a bit of alarm on my part. Every night Phil

296
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,879
Speaker 1: would take the tapes with him. He didn't trust anyone

297
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,960
Speaker 1: else to be around them, and when he had finished recording,

298
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,679
Speaker 1: he was finished with me too. He didn't allow me

299
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,919
Speaker 1: to attend the mixing sessions, never let me hear the

300
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 1: finished album before it was sent off for mastering and release.

301
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 1: That moment in the studio with the gun for him.

302
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,000
Speaker 1: I think it was both the moment of love in

303
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 1: a moment of finality. I had given him what he wanted,

304
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 1: and for that he was grateful. But I had also

305
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 1: lived out my usefulness, and now he was through. The

306
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 1: gun to my head was a big metaphor to him,

307
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,679
Speaker 1: the moment he symbolically blew my brains out, blew them

308
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,520
Speaker 1: out because he was in control, and also because now

309
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,959
Speaker 1: that he had used me up, he didn't want anyone

310
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,400
Speaker 1: else using me. I was his and he could put

311
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 1: a gun to it all if you wanted. I didn't

312
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 1: know it when I walked out of the studio after

313
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,840
Speaker 1: the last day we tracked vocals, but it would be

314
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: the last time I saw Phil. And if I'm being candid,

315
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: which I believe I have been all along, I would

316
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,640
Speaker 1: say that the idea of never seeing him again did

317
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 1: not displease me. Mm hmm. March, Los Angeles. Phil Spector

318
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: read the letter with equal parts of flattery and indignation.

319
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: They wanted some words, an essay, perhaps a statement, at

320
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 1: least something they could include in a book that would

321
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 1: be published next year to celebrate Leonard Cohen's sixtieth birthday.

322
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: Phil would be lying if you said it still didn't

323
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: sting a little. It's stun a lot, actually, and the

324
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: years that have passed had done a bit to dull

325
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: some of the pain, but we're still there, the sting

326
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 1: of the pain, the possibility that despite all of his

327
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 1: work and success and strokes of brilliance, Phil Specter was

328
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: a failure. And the source of that sting, the reason

329
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,239
Speaker 1: he could possibly be a failure, was because of so

330
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: called artists like Leonard Cohen. Leonard never understood what Phil

331
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: was trying to do. He just didn't get it. He

332
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: just didn't listen. If only he could have listened to

333
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 1: what Phil was trying to do back in the cramped

334
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: confines of gold Star in nineteen seventy seven, then perhaps

335
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: they both wouldn't have the stain on their legacies. And

336
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: that's what Death of the Ladies Man was. Phil thought

337
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,640
Speaker 1: it was a stain. It should have worked, It could

338
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 1: have worked. But Leonard was more the two bit backstabbing

339
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 1: con type than Phil assumed he was. Philip read all

340
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: the things Leonard had said about him after the album

341
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,719
Speaker 1: was originally released. He read them all from the comfort

342
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 1: of his hermetically sealed ice box of a home I

343
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 1: don't think he can tolerate any other shadows in his darkness,

344
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: And that was the line Phil couldn't shake from his head.

345
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: He'd never forgive Leonard, and he never let him forget

346
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 1: it either. Philip made the worst selling album of Leonard

347
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: Cohen's care here, and he would never let anyone forget

348
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: that it was Leonard's fault. So he grabbed a pen

349
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 1: and paper and composed the requested piano. Montreal's finest poet

350
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,199
Speaker 1: of love and loss. Phil wrote all about Leonard Cohen's

351
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: closet love of the Partridge Family. That Leonard maintained this

352
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: image of a female conquering meaning of life, monastic, intellectual,

353
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: but the deep down, for real and for true. Come on,

354
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: Leonard just wanted to get happy. Underneath that brooding, moody,

355
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: depressed soul which Leonard possesses lies an out and out

356
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: Partridge Family freak, Phil wrote. Phil folded the letter into

357
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 1: an envelope, licked the flap to seal it, and smiled,

358
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 1: Fuck you, Leonard, He thought, fuck you and the dour

359
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 1: fucking horse you rode in on. Back in seven, during

360
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 1: the death of a ladies man, Sessions Specter had described

361
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 1: the music he was making with Cohen as the polar

362
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: opposite of Partridge Family pop. This this punk rock, He

363
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 1: yelled the Cohen, the two of them standing in the

364
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: control room listening to the playback and ear shattering volume.

365
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: Letter didn't know punk rock from a hole in the wall,

366
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: so he just smiled politely and nodded along. He wasn't

367
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: exactly sure what he was listening to. Phil had assembled

368
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: upwards of forty musicians for the record, multiple drummers, guitarist,

369
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: keyboard players, percussionists, and a veritable army of backing singers.

370
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: The sound enveloped or suffocated, depending on your take, Cohen's

371
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: narrative vocals in a way that was unorthodox and challenging.

372
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: As the record floundered on store shelves and took a

373
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: beating from critics, Phil walked away with the blame firmly

374
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: placed on anyone but himself punk rock. Nothing about Phili

375
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: Spector was punk, and neither was the record. It was

376
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: another go around for Phil schmaltzy predilections. He was a

377
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: man out of time, a man stuck in time, and

378
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,199
Speaker 1: he was repeating the same folly over and over again.

379
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: He made the mistake with John Lennon, and then again

380
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: with Dion and now with Leonard Cohen, all within this

381
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: band of a few short years. He needed to get hit,

382
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: get with it. He needed to take a few giant

383
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: strides into the future if he wanted to make anything

384
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: of note ever again. He remembered that Barney Kessel's boys

385
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: Dan and David had been going on and on about

386
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: a band from New York that they said was on

387
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: the cutting edge. They were reminiscent of the past, but

388
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: sounded like the present, and they looked like the future.

389
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: Some of their songs even sounded like the Rownets on speed,

390
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: and their songs who played a peak volume and at

391
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: peak speed, most of them barely lasted a few minutes.

392
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: It sounded like just the thing. Phil Specter was looking for,

393
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: the project that can make him relevant again, and as

394
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: luck would have it, the Kessel Boys told him the

395
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: band was scheduled to play a residency at the Whiskey

396
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: in a few weeks. It was right down the street

397
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: from Phil's place. It was like it was meant to be,

398
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: and the future was waiting for him, just down the

399
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: hill where the Neon homed into the wee hours on

400
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: the Sunset Strip, if he squinted his eyes, he could

401
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: see it. The future, a carnage, the future, psychological car hitch.

402
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: You can see the Blood on the Tracks. This episode

403
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: of Blood on the Tracks is brought to you by

404
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: twenty seven Club, a podcast that I host on musicians

405
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: who died at the age of twenty seven. Season two,

406
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: featuring jim Morrison is now available as the season one

407
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: with twelve episodes featuring Jimmy Hendrix. Subscribe to The twenty

408
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: seven Club on Apple podcast, I Heart Radio app or

409
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, and of course, this episode

410
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: was also brought to you by Disgrace Land, the award

411
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: winning music and true crime podcast also hosted by Yours Truly.

412
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: Episodes on The Rolling Stones, Jerry Lewis, Cardi b, The

413
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: Grateful Dad, j Z Prince, and many many more are

414
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: all waiting for you right now. Just search disgrace Land

415
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: on Apple podcast, the I Heart Radio app or wherever

416
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: you get your podcast all right. This episode of Blood

417
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: on the Tracks wasten by Zeth Lundi and scored in

418
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: mixed by Matt Boden, Posted by me Jake Brennan. Additional

419
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: music and score elements by Ryan's Breaker and Henry Junetta.

420
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: Blood on the Tracks is produced by myself for Double

421
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: Elvis and partnership with I Heart Radio. Sources for this

422
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: episode are available at Double Elvis dot com on the

423
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: Blood on the Tracks series page. If you like when here,

424
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: please be sure to subscribe to Blood on the Tracks

425
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: on Apple podcast, I Heart Radio app wherever you get

426
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: your podcasts, And if you'd like to win a free

427
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: Blood on the Tracks poster designed by Nate Gonzalez and

428
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: leave a review for Blood on the Tracks on Apple Podcast,

429
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: you can hashtag Blood on the Tracks on social media.

430
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: Leave your review there and we'll pick two winners each

431
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: week and announce them on the Double Elvis Instagram page

432
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: that's at double Elvis. Go ahead and give that a

433
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: phone alright. As always, you can find me blabbing about

434
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: other crazy rock stars on disgrace Land and twenty seven Club,

435
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: and you can talk to me per usual on Instagram

436
00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: and Twitter at disgrace Land, pod Rock Above, Dye Graves

437
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: our dand