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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Nora Jones and today I'm playing along with

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Speaker 1: Julian Ledge.

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Speaker 2: I'm just playing long withy A, just playing in lone wey.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Nora, and with me always and forever is

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Speaker 1: Sarah Oda.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 4: Hello.

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Speaker 5: Our guest today is the incredible guitar player and prolific

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Speaker 5: composer Julian Lage. He's put out an extensive collection of albums,

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Speaker 5: both on his own and collaborating with others. He starred

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Speaker 5: in a documentary film titled Jewels at Eight made in

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Speaker 5: nineteen ninety six by Mark Becker, which featured his virtuosity

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Speaker 5: at a very young age, and now, as you'll hear,

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Speaker 5: his performances continue to be profoundly intelligent and captivating. He's

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Speaker 5: one of the most humble and unpresumptuous musicians we met

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Speaker 5: on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't you say he's incredibly humble for how good he

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Speaker 1: is and how long he's been good.

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And he's a very open and approachable musician. I

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Speaker 5: feel like, considering how skilled he is, he's very much

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Speaker 5: a student of life.

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Speaker 1: It seems like he's kind of one of those definitely

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Speaker 1: in the best, most beautiful way.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, it was so fun to get to play

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Speaker 4: with him.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of mutual friends, and I've known

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Speaker 1: Julian a long time. We also had his wife, Margaret

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Speaker 1: Glassbie on this podcast last season.

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Speaker 4: She's an incredible musician as well.

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Speaker 5: And Julian has a new album that just came out

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Speaker 5: last week titled Scenes from Above. This project is with

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Speaker 5: the new Quartet featuring John Medeski, Jorge Roder, and Kenny Wallason,

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Speaker 5: so be sure to check that out.

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Speaker 1: We had a great time. I hope you enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: Here we go with Julian laj Do you sit at

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Speaker 1: home and play I'm.

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Speaker 3: Not as much as an alone alone not as not

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Speaker 3: nearly as much as I use to. I want to.

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Speaker 3: I keep thinking of it that, you know, music, it

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Speaker 3: really is like medicinal, you know, And I think there's

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Speaker 3: that healing component that you can only work on if

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Speaker 3: you are doing it, regardless of your work life, Like,

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Speaker 3: this is what I'm going to do even if the

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Speaker 3: world ended tomorrow, because it's what my soul needs, you know,

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Speaker 3: It's the work I'm here on this planet to do.

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Speaker 3: Those questions I think about a lot, really, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: when I'm in touch with it, then I will sit down,

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Speaker 3: even if it's ten minutes and go, Wow, this is

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Speaker 3: a blessing and it's not about anything else, you know,

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Speaker 3: but I feel like I'm due for an extended period

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Speaker 3: of that. Yeah, you know, I'm kind.

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Speaker 4: Of just will you kind of have to refill the tank.

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Speaker 3: A little thousand. I think it's all about regeneration.

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Speaker 4: But until you stop, you don't have the guests well,

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Speaker 4: you know, the.

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Speaker 3: Guess or the perspective. Have you felt that too? You know,

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Speaker 3: you're working and you're like, you think you're one place

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Speaker 3: in the whole continuum, and then you listen back a

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Speaker 3: week later and you go, I sound flattened, you know,

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Speaker 3: or I sound to worried or afraid or I can

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Speaker 3: you know, you can hear those things about your own playing,

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I got to take care of that guy.

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Speaker 3: You know. That's that's the responsibility. I think. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm so glad we're doing this.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Should we play a tune?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely?

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Speaker 4: I am curious.

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Speaker 1: But for all the listeners who love you, especially the

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Speaker 1: guitar players, what is that that you're.

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Speaker 3: Playing the guitar I'm playing here is a Nacho caster,

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Speaker 3: and Nacho is a Spanish builder. I know he's he's

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Speaker 3: the I think he's the greatest. I mean, the telecaster

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Speaker 3: is an old, old, wonderful instrument. He happens to make

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Speaker 3: versions of them that feel genuine. They feel old, they

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Speaker 3: feel broken in but they also have a modern quality.

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Speaker 3: So you play him in a modern context and with

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Speaker 3: modern amps and whatnot, and it feels like it should

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Speaker 3: be there. You know, they're stable.

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Speaker 4: That's cool.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a special one. So that's my that's my main,

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Speaker 3: not cho caster, nota cho caster. I use a lot

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Speaker 3: of guitars by Callings as well O Great Texas Company

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Speaker 3: in Austin, and they made the acoustic play and also

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Speaker 3: another electric that's another main guitar. But I keep it

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Speaker 3: as focused on only a couple of guitars as possible. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that I get that, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: Well, I feel like it's easy to go nuts and

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Speaker 4: that might drive you nuts.

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Speaker 3: Well, it can certainly scatter your focus, you know. And

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Speaker 3: for me, guitars were always teachers, right. Every guitar kind

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Speaker 3: of teaches you what you need to know about it,

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Speaker 3: and going through that experience you become better, fuller. So

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Speaker 3: I think guitars are with us until they no longer

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Speaker 3: need to be with us and then they go somewhere else,

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Speaker 3: and I love that You're kind of there's a stewardship involved.

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Speaker 4: That's cool.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, this thanks for.

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Speaker 4: Asking, Nacho make awesome guitar.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Nacho, I love it, and so it looks you know,

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Speaker 3: it looks and feels old, but it's a modern instrument,

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Speaker 3: so I like it. What's your main electric.

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Speaker 4: I you still play a fit like a Mustang.

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Speaker 3: That's what I saw. I think I saw.

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Speaker 1: It was great, but it really didn't stay in tune

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Speaker 1: very great. It had a floating bridge, so I switched

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Speaker 1: to a jazz master after I recorded at the Loft.

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Speaker 3: Just makes sense that I played.

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Speaker 1: One of Tweety's jazz masters. And then I feel like

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Speaker 1: I want to say Mark found it for me, did

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Speaker 1: you what? I can't remember who found it? Somebody maybe

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Speaker 1: Loft related.

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Speaker 3: That's so cool. There's so when a jazz master is good,

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Speaker 3: it's yeah, superior to most everything.

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Speaker 4: It's so pretty.

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Speaker 3: They're so good. Oh that's cool.

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Speaker 1: I have small hands, so I can't really play anything big.

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Speaker 1: And I also I'm not really a barkourd girl, so

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Speaker 1: I really need to let me just say, I really

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Speaker 1: should practice my guitar, but it's.

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Speaker 3: Guitar is funny like that. It's kind of as hard

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Speaker 3: as we want it to be. I find yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? I was watching Richie

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Speaker 3: Haven's play when we're talking about himp attacks and being like,

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Speaker 3: well he found this his language and he doesn't seem stumped,

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Speaker 3: you know, and you just go. Jim Hall was the

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Speaker 3: same way. Jeff Becks, all these master players, they just

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Speaker 3: kind of kind of know thyself, like what can you do?

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Speaker 3: What do you want to do?

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Speaker 7: Do it?

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Speaker 1: There's not really any almost like within your limitations where

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Speaker 1: you find your voice.

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Speaker 3: Completely and it's not in limitations. Don't have to be narrow,

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Speaker 3: you know, it can be. I think that's what.

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Speaker 4: It can be, and it can it can be.

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Speaker 3: Best guitars such a friendly instrument. I mean, it seems like.

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Speaker 4: It after you get the first initial.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna go wait a second.

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Speaker 4: It hurts it first.

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Speaker 3: It does, right, remember that where you're just like oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: but uh well, I'm down to play absolutely anything you want.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I was thinking we could start with Day

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Speaker 1: and Age, but since you have the electric, maybe we

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Speaker 1: should start with something else.

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Speaker 3: What works well on the electric whe I play.

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Speaker 1: Something about the modulation sore because it made me happy,

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Speaker 1: because yeah, right, I like the way you play it.

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Speaker 3: So here's the.

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Speaker 4: Oh it's so pretty, and.

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Speaker 3: Then we'll listen again.

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Speaker 4: Wait what do you do there?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, do you do a weird you do the willie?

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Speaker 3: I do this?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Okay, which it's the same base though it basically it's.

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Speaker 4: Basically one four or five. Okay, cool, I'm not missing something.

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Speaker 3: You're not missing nothing. What do you think? Do we

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Speaker 3: play the melody?

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Speaker 4: Why don't you play the melody a few times?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Play, I'll play a short soulo or something. You

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Speaker 3: want to play something on it too.

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Speaker 4: I can play something something.

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Speaker 3: And then you want to get us to.

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Speaker 1: Be and okay, and I'll be like hair, okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: So I hope you don't mind.

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Speaker 4: I wrote some lyrics.

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Speaker 3: I'm so glad you did.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they're amazing, but I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's such a simple, sweet song. I thought it would

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Speaker 1: be fun.

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Speaker 3: It's it's it seems to be asking for it, you know.

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Speaker 4: I feel like every song of yours asked for it.

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Speaker 4: They're so melodic.

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Speaker 1: Thanks, it's such a such a like gift, like it's

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Speaker 1: I think it's what makes your music so special is

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Speaker 1: that it's instrumental, but it's actual, actually just singable melodies.

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Speaker 4: That's not everyone does that, so it's great.

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Speaker 3: That makes me feel good. Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Must have the soul of a singer.

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Speaker 3: Yea, I certainly. I feel like when I feel like

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Speaker 3: I'm attracted to that kind of narrative, right because melody

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Speaker 3: is so interesting. I like so many topics. My understanding

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Speaker 3: melody keeps changing. But I think it's it's, you know,

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Speaker 3: the path of least resistance. As far as communication, I

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Speaker 3: think certain sentiments come across as well. That's melodic because

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Speaker 3: it needs to be versus. I'm going to try to

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Speaker 3: put this disposition on everything. If anything, I've struggled writing

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Speaker 3: songs that don't need to be melodic to get their

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Speaker 3: point across. They might be textural, they might be rhythmic,

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Speaker 3: they might be architectural. But if it's just me at

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Speaker 3: home playing the guitar, I have an affinity for things

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Speaker 3: that get stuck in my own head really and I

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Speaker 3: can't stop playing them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what's the way to go?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I like it.

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Speaker 4: I think that's the goal.

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Speaker 3: I think that's what we're trying to do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't overthink it.

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Speaker 8: Let's try this one. U.

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Speaker 9: Yeah it a.

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Speaker 2: Hey, it's been a day. Hey, it's been a night.

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Speaker 2: All this time. I prayed that I could see your face.

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Speaker 2: We'll find you in the.

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Speaker 6: Morning when you appear in the night.

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Speaker 2: On some sunny day.

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Speaker 10: Let's right, if you turn only or take.

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Speaker 2: Me full a ride.

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Speaker 11: In my heart, I'll.

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Speaker 12: Stay in hopes to turn with tide.

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Speaker 2: I ask you in the night, you tell me in.

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Speaker 13: The night.

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Speaker 2: On some sunny day. That's right. I ask you in

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Speaker 2: you tell me in the night on some Sunday day.

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Speaker 14: That's right, on sun sunny day.

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Speaker 13: That's right.

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Speaker 3: Hey, that's great. That's fun. He's so fantastic lyrics.

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Speaker 4: I got a little lost, but it kind of worked with.

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Speaker 1: The court, like we picked the right transition.

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Speaker 3: We did, we got there. That's fun.

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Speaker 4: It's fun.

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Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for that. Yeah, thanks a lot for it.

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Speaker 4: It's a great tune.

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Speaker 3: It's like so hearing you phrase, it's really uh inspiring.

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Speaker 3: It's just the way you can place things where you

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Speaker 3: play them. That's that's tremendous.

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Speaker 4: Thanks. It's a beautiful song. It kind of has like

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Speaker 4: an old spiritual vibe, you know.

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Speaker 3: Those are my favorite kinds of songs to right though,

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Speaker 3: where there's the DNA is obviously not okay, here's here's

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Speaker 3: a hit. This is a I'm trying to impress you.

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Speaker 3: It's like no, it's like it's like.

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Speaker 4: Did I write this?

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Speaker 3: There was this already found the world.

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Speaker 4: It's so beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I tried to keep the lyrics sort of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I like when you can interpret lyrics your own way,

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Speaker 1: but also when they're very clear to you and not

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Speaker 1: vague on.

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Speaker 4: Purpose, you know, it makes total sense.

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Speaker 1: And I find recently that if I'm writing to God,

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Speaker 1: for instance, and I'm not I'm not necessarily very religious,

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Speaker 1: but if I'm writing to God, then it really means something.

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Speaker 1: And it's also easily interpreted into like a lover or

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Speaker 1: a friend.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a thing. I've thought about that before.

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Speaker 3: I've talked to Marred about it. Really, Oh my god.

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Speaker 15: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The nature of songs that I guess are touching or

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Speaker 3: scratching at universality and not in a popular sense, not

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Speaker 3: like well everyone will why no, how could you find

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Speaker 3: fault with this? This is everyone's gonna love this. It's

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Speaker 3: not not like Bland no, no, no, exactly where you

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Speaker 3: where you take out all the nutrients. It's not that

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Speaker 3: it's exactly like you're saying, there's these kind of archetypes

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Speaker 3: of humanity in life. You know. It's kind of the

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Speaker 3: Joseph Campbell thing.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's like we're either these generations after generations of people

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Speaker 3: from all over the world. We gravitate to stories. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and they tend to have similar themes. And because these

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Speaker 3: themes are the themes we need to make sense of

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Speaker 3: this life. And so I think that's what you're saying

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Speaker 3: resonates completely and I'm always I am thinking about that,

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Speaker 3: and I can like so many cool things. You know

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Speaker 3: it when you know it, when you hear it. Otherwise

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Speaker 3: you can be poking around in the dark, but then

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Speaker 3: it happens and you go, oh, hey, I think that's

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Speaker 3: I think that's bigger than me. Yeah, it's fantastic. Music's

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Speaker 3: the best, I really, I know.

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Speaker 4: I feel so lucky.

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Speaker 3: We're lucky. We're lucky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really special, and it's nice when you feel

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Speaker 1: like you can just play.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I keep telling my kids complaining about piano lessons. I'm like, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't like piano lessons either, but now I can.

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Speaker 4: Just play and it's great. Now I can just speak

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Speaker 4: the language, well, you can do so fluently.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's I remember growing up I felt

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Speaker 3: similar to what you're talking about, where I was like,

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Speaker 3: I remember, I remember having this distinct feeling as a

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Speaker 3: kid where I thought, Okay, the whole point of studying

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Speaker 3: is so that no one, no adult who I play

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Speaker 3: with or want to play with, could find a reason

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Speaker 3: why I'm ineligible to have a meaningful, like musical conversation.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: I was kind of I definitely wasn't thinking that way

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Speaker 1: when I was.

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Speaker 3: I was, you know, I was, I was all in it.

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Speaker 3: I was trying to really I was so blessed with it,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Actually that's when did you start? Though?

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Speaker 1: I started at seven, and I wasn't even good till

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Speaker 1: like five minutes ago. I don't even you know, like

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Speaker 1: like I've always been kind of a slacker.

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Speaker 4: But I think I got really into it in high school.

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Speaker 4: So when did you start start?

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Speaker 3: I started, I would have been five. My dad played,

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Speaker 3: but my father played. He started kind of when I started,

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Speaker 3: so he really it was beautiful. So he started. It

304
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Speaker 3: was such a way to bond. I mean, my whole family,

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Speaker 3: my mother and father's amazing familiar structure. And I'm the

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Speaker 3: youngest of five kids.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, yeah, that's a thing.

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Speaker 3: It's a thing, you know. So the point being that,

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Speaker 3: you know, what, what's your What are you going to

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Speaker 3: get into? Because everyone's preoccupied and getting older and doing

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Speaker 3: their things. So it just felt natural that when I

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Speaker 3: started that, it was all kind of I'm going to

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Speaker 3: do this, I'm going to really go in and but

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Speaker 3: but it was it was I don't know, no, I

315
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Speaker 3: think I think it was just about being close with

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Speaker 3: my father in my I think it was about.

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Speaker 4: Having in that time together.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was fabulous. You know. He would take lessons

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Speaker 3: and come home and teach me what he learned, and

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Speaker 3: then we would take the lessons together. As I got older,

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Speaker 3: and then I would take the lessons and he would

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Speaker 3: come with me.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's really sweet.

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Speaker 3: Right, So there was this transformational quality.

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Speaker 4: That's a nice bonding story.

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Speaker 3: It's a good it was. It's true.

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Speaker 4: At what point did you surpass I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I ever will he still sadly my

329
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Speaker 3: father passed.

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Speaker 4: Did he still play?

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Speaker 3: He didn't play? But I'll tell you this much without

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Speaker 3: a doubt. My father's the most brilliant guitarist who never

333
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Speaker 3: not never, but it didn't play play the guitar. He has.

334
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Speaker 3: There's an ability that he that's very embedded in me

335
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Speaker 3: now and it has been my whole life because from him.

336
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Speaker 3: But he could kind of objectively understand the inner workings

337
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Speaker 3: of really anything. And he was a brilliant visual artist

338
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Speaker 3: and and kind of a child prodigy as a visual

339
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 3: artist as a kid. So yeah, and then he and

340
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Speaker 3: then he stopped doing it for some time. But I

341
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 3: think in seeing me, he saw the potential for the

342
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 3: two kind of forks in the road you can exploit.

343
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,199
Speaker 3: A young person can feel pressure to be something, or

344
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 3: they can feel nurtured and protected and allowed to grow.

345
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Speaker 3: My parents both saw that so vividly. So I was

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Speaker 3: the beneficiary of him really just seeing the whole world

347
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Speaker 3: so clearly. And we would watch guitar players and even

348
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Speaker 3: if he didn't play, say, do you know it's this

349
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 3: player that you know they're They're great for about like

350
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 3: sixty percent of their solo and then something always goes

351
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 3: off the rails. I'd be like, he's right, you know

352
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Speaker 3: what is it, you know, and then we both kind

353
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Speaker 3: of studied an analyzing and you're a kid. I'm a kid.

354
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Speaker 3: But I mean this happened through till then through my thirties,

355
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 3: and we would talk about these things and it's cool,

356
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 3: it was so marvelous. So and you all to say

357
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Speaker 3: I was serious about it, because I was serious about

358
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Speaker 3: being close to him.

359
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 4: That's pretty cool.

360
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Speaker 3: It's really nice. It's I mean, it's a gift beyond words, truly.

361
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Speaker 4: But you were really serious about it.

362
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Speaker 8: I was.

363
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 3: I didn't see, Yeah, I was really I was. I was.

364
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 3: I was like I was. I just wanted to I

365
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 3: don't know, I'll figure it out. And I had a

366
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 3: lot of great mentors. Yeah, you know, I took lessons

367
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Speaker 3: with everyone who would teach me.

368
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 4: Still do How close to San Francisco are you?

369
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Speaker 3: So I grew up in Santa Rosa, California. So it's

370
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 3: about sixty miles about an hour north. Oh Okay, wine

371
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Speaker 3: Country smacked m in the middle of like wow, that world,

372
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 3: and it's you know, the Bay Area, as you well know,

373
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Speaker 3: it's like it's a richest.

374
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 4: So many great musicians, so many and a lot.

375
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Speaker 3: Of the people that I was around were had been

376
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 3: California's for a long time, so that meant you were

377
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 3: interfacing with the grateful dead scene. Jerry's world different, a

378
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 3: lot of different stuff. Jed Denny Zeitlyn was a rather great,

379
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 3: you know, jazz piano player. You have the vince Garaldi.

380
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 3: I mean the people were around who made it more music,

381
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 3: and if they weren't around, the people who worked with

382
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 3: them were around. So it was rather fluorescent. And I

383
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 3: grew up in a time before I'm of the generation

384
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 3: that's right before the internet. Really yeah, and it would

385
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 3: thank god, you know, so there was no there's no nothing.

386
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 3: I would just go play restaurant gigs, take lessons steady,

387
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 3: go to school, do the thing.

388
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Speaker 4: And that's so cool.

389
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 3: It was pretty awesome.

390
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 4: Did you play in the city a lot in.

391
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,719
Speaker 3: High I did? I would, you know, rehearsal sessions with friends, Yoshi's,

392
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 3: you know the clubs that were around. Cool, that's cool.

393
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: When did you first play a gig under your own name?

394
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 8: Though?

395
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 1: Well, I think I started playing jazz trio stuff in

396
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: high school. I mean not gigst coffee shop, but in college. Yeah,

397
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: I did like restaurants stuff, and then it was in

398
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: a band that wasn't my name.

399
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 4: Probably when I moved to New York.

400
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: But I really was just playing jazz when I moved

401
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: to New York, and I got close with Jesse Harris,

402
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: who is how I met you years ago, years ago,

403
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 1: and him and another you know, Richard Juliet and some

404
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: other friends like I would go see them at the

405
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 1: songwriter Club at the living room, of course, and then

406
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: I got into songwriting. And then when I started playing

407
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: my own songs, it was with Jesse and he was

408
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: I was singing his songs and my songs, and we

409
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: just decided to put it under my name, and then

410
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: it went from there.

411
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 3: It's amazing. Did you feel I'm always curious about this

412
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 3: and specifically friendly with you. I mean, your relationship to

413
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,479
Speaker 3: the instrument and sound is so I mean, especially being

414
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,160
Speaker 3: in the room next to you. I see so it's like, wow,

415
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 3: this sound emerges from the instrument in this different way,

416
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: and that it's just so it's so cool. You never

417
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 3: know that until you're next to your favorite people. But

418
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 3: did you feel did you ever feel a tug of

419
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 3: war between being the songwriter and the person who's rendering

420
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 3: the music, because I certainly have really well, absolutely, because

421
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 3: I think they can be different, different muscle, they're different muscle,

422
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 3: but there there It's kind of like I think of

423
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 3: culture and all the time. But the way he I mean,

424
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 3: this is true of so many of the masters, but

425
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 3: specifics a culture. The way he could, you know, write

426
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 3: these songs that would it was just enough to get

427
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 3: him into the space as an improviser that he needed to.

428
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: Be vehicles for him to really do that thing absolutely.

429
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 3: And yet on their own they're also magical, you know,

430
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 3: or net same thing. There's those people that strike that

431
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 3: balance and as you have too, and so I'm just

432
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 3: curious to you. I know some people talk about like, Okay,

433
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 3: I write to push myself to sing different or to

434
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 3: play different other people. And I write what I sing

435
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 3: and what I play so that I've got good material.

436
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 3: That's easy.

437
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:04,479
Speaker 2: You know.

438
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 3: Did you ever feel like that was even a question

439
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 3: or are you like, no, no brainer, I'm gonna write it,

440
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 3: I'm gonna play well.

441
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: I think I started covering songs because I was singing

442
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: jazz and I wouldn't write. I wrote like a song

443
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: in high school, which is kind of embarrassed me.

444
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 4: So I think I shied like you can recoil my.

445
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: Turtle head went back in like I didn't.

446
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 4: I didn't think I could write.

447
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I moved to New York and

448
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 1: I think I had gone to the living room and

449
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: then I went back to my apartment and I.

450
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 4: Had an old guitar.

451
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: I didn't have a piano yet, you know, And so

452
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: I would just play five chords in my guitar and

453
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: I wrote come Away with Me Wow, and it was

454
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 1: so so it's such a simple song. It's nothing fancy,

455
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: but as we just played, like sometimes that's the best

456
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: because it's heart felt. Exact cliches don't matter when you

457
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: mean them, you know what I mean. So I think,

458
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 1: you know, I always liked that song and it kind

459
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: of worked out for any After that though, I got

460
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: real heavy about songwriting and I felt like I had

461
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: to sort of prove myself as a songwriter, and I

462
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: overthought it. I would do those things where I would

463
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: take stuff out to be more vague, and I think

464
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: in the end, I didn't write any songs like I

465
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: Hate Hate that are on albums necessarily. But in the

466
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: end I realized that when it's just a bolt of lightning.

467
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 4: Inspiration, it's better.

468
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

469
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: So the last ten years, I've felt really confident in

470
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: that's so writing because I'm not trying to write.

471
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, you trust that, it's kind of it's just one.

472
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 3: I'm the same, right, And you.

473
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: Know those periods where you think you have nothing to

474
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: say in writer's black. I never worry about that anymore.

475
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: I think I did for a time. Yeah, but I

476
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: always feel like it's gonna you just got to fill

477
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: it up and it'll come out.

478
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 3: I think that's what we keep learning. You know, all

479
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 3: the masters always say it. It's like just go just.

480
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you've kind of isolated yourself and you stop

481
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: listening new music.

482
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a whole other thing.

483
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 3: That's a great point though, that's a dangerous spot. You're

484
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 3: kind yeah, I don't know. Yeah, you kind of you're

485
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 3: drinking your own kool aid and you're yeah. I feel

486
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 3: I feel there was some I mean I have empathy,

487
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 3: I'll say it that way. I have empathy for what

488
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 3: musician feels like their job is to render the thing

489
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: that they think they're supposed to do.

490
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 4: I don't know many people I know I see it.

491
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 4: I don't see you as that.

492
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 3: I don't feel that way, fortunately, but.

493
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 4: I like mutual friend like, I don't even I think.

494
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 3: We're kind of in a community where there's not I

495
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 3: think there's a premium put on a certain thing. I

496
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 3: guess I think of it more for maybe a student,

497
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 3: let's say, or someone who's coming up and feels the pressure. Okay,

498
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 3: I have this, you know, have these abilities as a player,

499
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 3: I've also got to be a songwriter. I've also got

500
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 3: to be successful and I've also got to have a hit.

501
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 3: And that's when I think you see that you start

502
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 3: playing at the thread.

503
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: And I've also got to be really good at self

504
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: promotional social media. I don't have to be really good

505
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: at selfies it now it's like you just add to

506
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: the add to the pile.

507
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 4: I feel so bad for young people.

508
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 3: I think there's a tremendous amount of empathy and compassionated

509
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 3: because it is a different field. That's why we all

510
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 3: have to stick together intergenerationally, because I think that's how

511
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 3: we all get through stuff. Yeah. So it's more in

512
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: that environment that I could see someone thinking, well, you know,

513
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 3: I got attention when I did this, so I better

514
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 3: keep doing that.

515
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

516
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: I said, no, no, no, it's you know, you get it,

517
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: don't worry about it.

518
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: So how did you shake that? Like, I don't know,

519
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 1: how did you ever have that feeling?

520
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 3: I remember, it's a good question if I really think

521
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: about it. First, my first record I didn't make as

522
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 3: a leader until I think I was twenty one, twenty two, Okay,

523
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 3: but I've been playing really seriously since I was five,

524
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 3: and I was out with Gary Burton's band for about

525
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 3: a decade from fifteen until I was twenty five. I

526
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 3: was like, it was great. It was one of those

527
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: rare mentorship so I was really I guess my point being,

528
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: I had no qualms. I was like, this is great.

529
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 3: I don't have to be the guy you weren't.

530
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: You weren't staring at mountain of ambition, no extra stuff

531
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: that you were waiting to do.

532
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no.

533
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: That's how I was when I moved to New York, right,

534
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: I think because I was really young and it all

535
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: happened really fast, so I hadn't had time to look

536
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: toward what I was doing yet, thank God. But I

537
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: think that's a very lucky and rare place to be.

538
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 3: I think it's a fortuitous thing because it can allow

539
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 3: you to just redirect energy where it's needed. But what's

540
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 3: the thing I think that I want to do and

541
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: it's kind of the you know, it's it's part of it.

542
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 3: I think for me, it was always and I say

543
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 3: this with tremendous respect, I mean I really do that.

544
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: I always felt like jazz, my relationship Tom Prized music

545
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: was about celebrating a subculture. You know. I was like,

546
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,719
Speaker 3: this is great because no one cares. If no one cares,

547
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 3: I can do anything. Oh you know, it's not like

548
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: no one cares. I must be doing something wrong. I thought,

549
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: I don't mean no one cares.

550
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 4: Everyone weren't you didn't feel the pressure.

551
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 3: No, I was like, wait, this is do you know

552
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 3: what I mean? It was like this immediate doing this.

553
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 4: It's niche.

554
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: It's niche, and the people who know it and love it,

555
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: like yourself and everyone you mentioned before, and we're like,

556
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 3: we're going to stick together through all of this. And

557
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 3: uh so I felt like I didn't have any pressure

558
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: to really go out there and do it. Now, somebody

559
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 3: you Once I started I made this record, I think

560
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: I felt a pressure to reinvent maybe myself within my

561
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 3: own or I I had a band that I really like.

562
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: I liked it then, I like it now, But it

563
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: was hard. You know. It was kind of a chamber group.

564
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: It was like acoustic guitar, saxophone, and cello based percussion.

565
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 3: And I said, I don't want to tree you. I

566
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 3: don't want real drum set.

567
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 4: I wouldn't want a traditional setup.

568
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: I thought this was my offering, was I'm going to

569
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 3: be non traditional, and we made a lot of cool music.

570
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: I don't think.

571
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 4: But were you already writing I was a young age.

572
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 16: I was.

573
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 3: I was, okay, I forgot about someone the other day

574
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 3: sent me recording of my demost when I was like thirteen,

575
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 3: and I was, I was kind of sort of things

576
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 3: were better than they are now. I were to talk

577
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 3: about not being self contops.

578
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, the beginner's mind.

579
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

580
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 3: I wrote all these tunes and these rhythm changes things,

581
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 3: and it was great. Looking back, I think when I

582
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 3: first started getting that, okay, I gotta have a chamber

583
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 3: and say I got to emerge these worlds, it was

584
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 3: really I truly mean it. It was a wonderful, necessary thing

585
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 3: for me to do. But I think what made it

586
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: cool was the the human beings involved. Now, because I

587
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 3: had such a clever idea not that not not the concept, not.

588
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 1: Concept, no, it's just the fact that you guys were

589
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: all playing, were.

590
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: And just listening and loving one another. It's exactly I've

591
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 3: rebranded why that, you know, to myself, I've reframed why

592
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 3: that was important. At the time I thought it was

593
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: was something else. But it's been so lovely because over

594
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: the years I realized that to pick up a guitar

595
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 3: and play it at all is really special, you know,

596
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 3: and and and and if I can celebrate that, whether

597
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 3: it's through the prism of an original an improvised piece

598
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 3: of standard, it doesn't really matter.

599
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 4: You just have to put your own, your heart on it.

600
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: That's it. Well, no, you do that. So that's why

601
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: it's so fun to play with you because that obviously

602
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 3: you possess that and and and and share with great

603
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 3: generosity and and uh, it's just a reminder, that's the

604
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 3: whole thing. It's the whole thing. Where we were on

605
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 3: tour in near recently with Jorge roder Bas brilliant Bassis,

606
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 3: one of my best friends in the world. We've made

607
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 3: he's been in my first band and all the way

608
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: to now.

609
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 4: So we're kind of so good.

610
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 3: He's so good, and and we we just happen to

611
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 3: have a few dates with Joey Barron we're playing with

612
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 3: Who's fabulous. Have you played with Joey?

613
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 4: I know, but you know, I know through Jesse, I.

614
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 3: Think you would have a ball. He's he's to me,

615
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 3: he's such a bastion of what we're talking about. It's

616
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: how we relate to the music and and he's living

617
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 3: proof of that. And and as are all the masters.

618
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 3: We play with Dave King, who's also a master, and

619
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 3: it's the same thing. But it's funny when you or

620
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: Billy Hard or you just kind of start going wow,

621
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 3: It's it's one thing to say, it's another thing to

622
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 3: live it. And yeah, I'm trying to really learn about

623
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 3: it more.

624
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 4: It's important to remember it is well. It's important to

625
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 4: recognize when you go off of the.

626
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 3: Rails a little yeah and kind of go way, I

627
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 3: think I might be pursuing, yeah, different agenda.

628
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 4: I haven't done that in a while.

629
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm like perfect or of all that,

630
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: but I don't really do stuff unless I'm really.

631
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 4: Feeling it.

632
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: So actually, actually, when we were trying to come up

633
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: with a cover to do, I haven't done as many

634
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: covers in the last ten or so years because I

635
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: don't feel the same when I'm singing them as I

636
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: did when I was twenty. When I was twenty, I

637
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: felt like I could really sing the song, and sometimes

638
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: I overinterpreted it, but usually I was just so green

639
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: that I just ooh, this is a great song.

640
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: I'm going to sing it.

641
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it was really heartfelt.

642
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: But now that I started writing, I find it harder

643
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: to put other words in my mouth and make them real,

644
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, because I feel like to sing us you

645
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: do have to sort of own it. You have to

646
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: sing it like you wrote it.

647
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 3: Absolutely, do you do? You a question for you? I'm sorry, okay,

648
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 3: but I suppose you run into that, right do you?

649
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 3: Are you of the mind? Well, I'm going to strategize

650
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 3: how to move through this or is it enough to

651
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 3: be like this? Ain't it?

652
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: I mean I'll try a couple of times, but then

653
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: it either is it or it's not? I mean, what

654
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: am I doing where I have to do it?

655
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 3: It's so true that you don't have to.

656
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: Somebody you know wants me to sing it for a

657
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: movie that's different.

658
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: That's different, but you have the yeah you can. That's

659
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: that's encouraging.

660
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 4: You know, why make it happen.

661
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, covers are wonderful. I keep I'm starting to return

662
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: to them more.

663
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it must be fun to play melodies. I mean,

664
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: it's fun to play melodies. And when you don't have

665
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: to like fake the words like what if there's an

666
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: awkward word?

667
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 4: Like you don't have to worry about that.

668
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 3: How you do it? It's for words. I really am not.

669
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 3: We were talking about who wrote this? We were talking which

670
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 3: one we were talking about? Heartache? Is that?

671
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 4: I love that song?

672
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 3: Tell me about this, okay, An, I don't really know

673
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: much about it.

674
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: I know, I don't really either. I think that the

675
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: song Heartache, I think it might be on that solo

676
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: album he did.

677
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 4: Thanks, I'll eat it here, But it's not the same version.

678
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 3: It's not the same version as the one you shared now.

679
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: The one I shared with you is some random demo

680
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: with him and Linda Ronstadt which I used to have

681
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 1: like a bootleg recording of in the early two thousands.

682
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 4: Whoa or maybe it was.

683
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 1: It definitely wasn't on YouTube. It was like a rogue

684
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: file that we had of it, and and I really

685
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: loved it.

686
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 3: I loved I was I would love to play with you.

687
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 4: Let's do it.

688
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: And you know why I love it so much is

689
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: because it's got such a weird.

690
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 4: Key center change. Isn't that I still don't completely understand

691
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 4: it or I haven't analyzed it enough, but.

692
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: It's it's so fabulous, natural and beautiful.

693
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 3: Yet I would never think of it neither. I was

694
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 3: in the cars in the car listening to this in traffic,

695
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 3: and I was like, I was like trying to be

696
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 3: the good music student. I was like trying to sing

697
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 3: the bass like like here where it's moving, and I

698
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 3: was foiled. And then I was like a guitar in hand.

699
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 3: It's such guitar language. Yeah, it is with him, you know,

700
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 3: he's such a master.

701
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 4: That's right.

702
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: It's cool though, I'm glad you brought it up.

703
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 4: Are you a crappy keys for guitar?

704
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: I mean, I know they're all good, okay, I just

705
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: you try on acoustic.

706
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, same thing.

707
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 4: So I've always.

708
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 1: Loved this song, and I've singing a couple of times,

709
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: and just like you know, I'm not much of a.

710
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 4: All sing a song.

711
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: At some of his apartment Jesse, his house, you know,

712
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: people are always jamming.

713
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 3: He kind of sets the stage yeah, it's fun.

714
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: But like, I'm not the first to go up and

715
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: sing a song, but I feel like I've sung this

716
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: a couple of times at random things because it's just

717
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: a great song.

718
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 3: Well, it's also kind of rare. It's like when I

719
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 3: put it on, like I haven't heard it much, but

720
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 3: it's oh, it's just kind of it's got what you need.

721
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 3: I heard it once and I say, I got to

722
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 3: hear that again.

723
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 4: It's so pretty in her harmonies. I just love her

724
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 4: so much.

725
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 3: Will you give me an a? The strings are O?

726
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 4: What do you got there?

727
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 3: This is the callings that I like. Said, we made

728
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 3: this like a signature guitar for years ago, and I

729
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 3: really like it. Very lightweight, so it's almost like it

730
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 3: ages and dog years. So for every year you own it,

731
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 3: it's about seven years old. What do you think about? Amahoy?

732
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 4: Are you my favorite?

733
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 3: What you're just playing? That's like the wandering Trap?

734
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 4: She's my favorite.

735
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: She just died last year, right, so she's this Ethiopia.

736
00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: N right that alone is so have been. She lived

737
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 3: to be I believe ninety nine or she was old. Yeah,

738
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 3: and she wrote music, piano music for you know, a

739
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 3: single piano and she played these recordings. I mean recordings

740
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 3: are just yeah, exactly, homeless wanderer.

741
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 4: A young girl's complaint.

742
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 3: Yes, right, famine disasters, oh.

743
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: My names alone. It's almost like a little cat is

744
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: just like like walking on the keyboard, but like in

745
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 1: the most beautiful way.

746
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 3: I know, because we were talking about fore it's about

747
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 3: you're talking about writing to God. I mean this that

748
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 3: was definitely spiritual music. Very and the recordings themselves are

749
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 3: gorgeous documents, I.

750
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: Know, and it's kind of big now, like that Ethiopique

751
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: stuff exactly. And I actually saw a commercial for VRBO

752
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: where they clearly were ripping it and it was it

753
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: was a beautiful commercial maybe like they did a great job.

754
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: It was beautiful, but it was not her. But it

755
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: was very much similar.

756
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 3: The secrets out. Yeah, well let's celebrate almahoy.

757
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 4: Yeah is so good.

758
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, t's see what'll be. I believe this one

759
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: up a little bit, can you hear me?

760
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 13: Okay?

761
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when you play an f it's just only

762
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: bar chords basically, right, is except see I.

763
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 3: Can't indeed, I guess so you mean on this raiment

764
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 3: just in general, Like I don't know if I saw

765
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 3: an F. I think of it more. Less notes the better.

766
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 3: I don't play a lot of bar chords because they're hard.

767
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: You know they are hard, So you play the higher,

768
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 1: highest play I play higher.

769
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 3: I play here even a diehead like.

770
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 4: You're losing me. I know, but it's true that, uh,

771
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 4: playing a straight f like is hard.

772
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's no, it's hard. It's mechanically. Mechanically

773
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 3: is if you look at even your fretting hand, it's

774
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 3: it's asking a lot, it is. It's so you just

775
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: either figured out or you don't have to.

776
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: My friend for this put some boot show. She wanted

777
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 1: to sing Holy Night and f I was like, cool,

778
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you to change it.

779
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 4: And then I was like, wait a second, I can

780
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 4: cap you can.

781
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 3: Keep us are the best. I've done some stuff with

782
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 3: a capover.

783
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 4: The I played it me. Yeah, it was crazy.

784
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: I think that's the solution. Just don't worry about it.

785
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 4: I capo our gig last week.

786
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: I was super excited about this, but it was a

787
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: total dork moment. I got the key wrong and we

788
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: started the song and I realized I.

789
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 4: Usually play with the capo. I could play without a capo.

790
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: But there was the bridge coming up, which I wasn't

791
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: sure what was, and then I remembered what key I

792
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: did it in, and on a little sly moment, I

793
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: put the capo on it, the new key, and I

794
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, school are pretty dark.

795
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 3: Way, No, that's great for that kind of thing.

796
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 6: Why I'm here alone, but I'm feeling no pain.

797
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 7: I know you heartache, you stand in my way. There's

798
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 7: no use in wishes because I be inside is fired.

799
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 2: I'm fit to be a messing when you're.

800
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 4: Side heartache, fat another.

801
00:40:52,920 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: Places to be. I'm chiding of me your best friend,

802
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: not two.

803
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 11: Another for your companion.

804
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 4: Because when you do, my heart pain.

805
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 6: Will well there's no way at all. I'm feeling no pain.

806
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 6: My body is sickly.

807
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 2: And my mind is insane. I'm calling on.

808
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 12: You, hearty, to come shot me how because I can't

809
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 12: get no longer the.

810
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 2: Whole in the ring.

811
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 15: Fat another play time you be strey the two another

812
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 15: for your convailion.

813
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: Wait until my.

814
00:42:37,080 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 16: Pa relay b fam another place.

815
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 2: To be, TI.

816
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 3: Of be.

817
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 2: You best.

818
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 4: That another.

819
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: For your companion, And when you do my.

820
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 3: I like that.

821
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 4: I did too. I still slowed it down.

822
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 3: I got gotta go where it's gotta go.

823
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 4: It's a sweetheall tune night.

824
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 3: It's great. It's so I was just playing, like playing,

825
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 3: thinking about what must have been like to write that

826
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 3: or that structure where.

827
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 4: I wonder if you thought about it.

828
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 1: He was a really good guitar player, right, he had

829
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: that ability.

830
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 3: He had that ability. But it's what what's what he

831
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 3: found so clearly is that it's it's almost like Falling

832
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 3: Grace by Swallow or something like one of these tunes

833
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 3: where it's cycles. You don't know where things end and

834
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:58,439
Speaker 3: where they begin.

835
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds like it was an act it could

836
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 4: have been.

837
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 3: It's a beautiful one if.

838
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: So, I know, I love it and the lyrics are

839
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: very lyrics.

840
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 4: Felt.

841
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's sound great saying that, Oh thank you?

842
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 4: Can we try that tune of yours?

843
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 3: Which one? Do we talk about him?

844
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 13: No?

845
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 4: Did we talk about speak to me?

846
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah?

847
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 4: I think I know what's happening on it.

848
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 3: I should have. Well, of course you know what's happening.

849
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 4: Well, I mean you might have to.

850
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 3: Let's well, let's uh let me.

851
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 4: I think I think I get it.

852
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 3: How's it be flat?

853
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 4: It's right, it be flat. That seems like a weird

854
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 4: key for guitar.

855
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 3: Rethinking that as we speak, it works in other keys

856
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 3: just as well.

857
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 4: But do you ever do other tunings?

858
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't touch it. Yeah, I'm worried. I'm worried.

859
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 3: This is a general notion. No, but I uh, I

860
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 3: know the point is that it reframes the guitar completely.

861
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 3: I just feel like I'm working so hard to understand

862
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 3: it as it is. I don't want to pull the

863
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 3: rug out just yet.

864
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: Well, it's like you, you always have that up your

865
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: sleeve if you just stuck starting to start working on

866
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: him truly.

867
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 3: When I moved to New York, I'll tell you this

868
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 3: is kind of fun. I started going to Jim Hall's

869
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 3: house a lot. Jim, did you ever play with them?

870
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 4: I didn't. So he was one of.

871
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 3: Your total gods. Yeah, I mean total totally.

872
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 4: That's so cool.

873
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 3: It was wonderful. No, I was like little boy Jullian

874
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 3: was flipping out, and but he he would. He was

875
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 3: so over and he was just over anything that wasn't

876
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 3: about innovation. And I'll go to him and I talked

877
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 3: to him. I said, you know, hey, Jim, you know,

878
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 3: can I ask you a question about playing with you know,

879
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 3: Sonny Rowlins in the sixties or this with whomever. And

880
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 3: he would just say, Julian, it was not a good time.

881
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 3: You know, this country was not in a good place.

882
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 3: And and and he was him being in what could

883
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 3: be consider an early integrated band, you know, Sonny Rollins Quartet.

884
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 3: It was, it was. It was just a massive deal.

885
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: And he just was very clear to say, don't romanticize anything,

886
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 3: just anything, but especially that time, because it sucked. The

887
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 3: music was great, but it sucked. And he was always

888
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 3: looking forward. How can we make the world a better

889
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 3: place and not romanticize what it was?

890
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 4: What interesting?

891
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 3: Isn't that cool? It's the most important thing, is exactly.

892
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 3: So it was. It was a matter of real concern

893
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 3: to him that we don't get caught up in that.

894
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 3: But anyway, so I'd go over there with these questions

895
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 3: about these iconic records. He said, I've got a better idea.

896
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 3: How about I'll give you my guitar, you give me yours,

897
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 3: and I'll dtun yours randomly and you dtune mine randomly.

898
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 3: It'll play free.

899
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 4: Oh and it was how fun.

900
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 3: It was fabulous. And it was terrifying because here I

901
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 3: am sounding like, you know, like I've never played guitar

902
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 3: in my life in front of my hero. But what

903
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 3: a cool it was great, So that was I always

904
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 3: keep that in the back of my mind, that it's

905
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 3: it's there for us as a tool. Yeah, but no.

906
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 3: But as far as playing songs, I stick to the

907
00:47:58,680 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 3: standard as much as I can.

908
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 4: What a great story. I love that.

909
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: Well let's see, well, so this way we had talked

910
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: about this. I know I've always played. It's kind of

911
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 3: a faster thing.

912
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 4: I like, however you went, I think it's I'm a

913
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 4: slow slow Jones.

914
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 3: So this this is going to work just fine because

915
00:48:13,400 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 3: I think it's.

916
00:49:34,600 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 11: Listen, Bastan.

917
00:50:34,960 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 17: Thinks it's start.

918
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 13: And every.

919
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 9: Land.

920
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 3: It's great. He sounds so great on that.

921
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 4: I think it kept up mostly I.

922
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 3: Didn't you kidding. It's beautiful, it's fun, it's fun to

923
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 3: play with being on guitar.

924
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 4: Is it's hard to play in B flat minor.

925
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 3: It is.

926
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 4: It's a weird key, it's a weird piano.

927
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 3: I can't only imagine and guitar and guitar, but it's

928
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 3: it's so satisfying when you get through that the B chord,

929
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 3: you kind of it feels so wrong, but it feels

930
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 3: so wrong. So right, it's so good.

931
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 4: It's so like Getaway Car. You know, I love it.

932
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 4: That was Thanks for letting me.

933
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 3: That was awesome.

934
00:54:59,160 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 4: Can we try him?

935
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 3: Yes?

936
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I love this. I know it's a

937
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 4: weird one to pick.

938
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 3: But it's so hip that you picked it though. Uh,

939
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:07,879
Speaker 3: we can do it anyway you want.

940
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 1: I mean said, I could be the bass basically, I

941
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: could take his parts because the.

942
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's horrid. So if i'm I play this theme right,

943
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 3: this is it's like a hymnal. It's like a spiritual too,

944
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 3: so it's kind of call in response, right, So I'll

945
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 3: play the thing and then you play anything in between it. Uh,

946
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 3: and then what happened? Let me see, let me think

947
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 3: about this.

948
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 4: I wrote it down.

949
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 3: Can I see what you want down?

950
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: This is what I wrote down? But it's not in

951
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: total order, like there's some stuff in.

952
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 4: There that's not there.

953
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 3: That's quite all right.

954
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 4: I just my charts are not amazing, they're highly efficient.

955
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 4: They work for me.

956
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 3: That's similar. Ah, okay, here we are.

957
00:56:38,960 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 13: In m h.

958
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 3: I love that's good. That's great.

959
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: It's kind of indiany like almost, I think, so it

960
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 1: lives in that space.

961
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 7: Yeah.

962
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 3: Oh it's so nice to play that with you.

963
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 4: Well, thanks, I love that one.

964
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 3: The harmonies are great that you're playing. Yeah, because it's

965
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 3: all that, it's all that, it's you know, it's voice

966
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 3: leading that the church stuff, you.

967
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.

968
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: It's churchy, but it's also like Eastern.

969
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like old church, old church, like like Oregon

970
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 3: pipe organ.

971
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 4: Kind of energy and it's pretty.

972
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 3: It's not. It's just lovely to hear hear you play it.

973
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 3: Thanks for thanks for picking that one. That that's so

974
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 3: unexpected to me. But it's but it's totally fodder for

975
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 3: really whatever someone wants to play. That's yeah, that's good.

976
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 4: I love it. Did you studied sort of Eastern music?

977
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 4: Did you study the I did.

978
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I studied that. I studied at table and sitar

979
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 3: for about a year.

980
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

981
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 3: It was wonderful. I was terribly I love that. Oh

982
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 3: it was so fun. And I took one lesson with

983
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,959
Speaker 3: console with aliof Barkhano on guitar. I went to his house.

984
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 3: He's he was at the time he was I don't

985
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 3: remember how old he was. I must have been fifteen

986
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 3: or so. And his son, Alama, who's so wonderful brilliant,

987
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 3: you know, master he he kind of arranged it and

988
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 3: it was it was interesting. It was just a one

989
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 3: hour lesson with his father. But it was so cool, tremendous.

990
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 3: He's tremendous.

991
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 4: I think his father. I think my dad Guru was

992
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 4: his father.

993
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, I think so.

994
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: And I think they grew they came together, up together,

995
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: and I think my dad married his sister.

996
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 3: Get out of here.

997
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: I could be totally wrong about this, but and then

998
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 1: they were strange. They were not They did not stay close.

999
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1000
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: But you played tabla though, that's my dream. I always

1001
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 1: wondered what I would have played if I had grown

1002
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: up closer with my dad as a kid, of course,

1003
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: because I love of course, I love that music, and

1004
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: I think I would have gravitated towards tabla.

1005
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 3: It was pretty pretty cool.

1006
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 4: It's really cool.

1007
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 3: I just remember being so out of my league and

1008
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 3: loving it. You know, it's so hard, it's so hard,

1009
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 3: and it's so but it's so it's so real because

1010
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 3: it's like it is. These things are hard and they

1011
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 3: do take lifetimes.

1012
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: And yeah, and well and and within I don't know

1013
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: how it was in the school, because I know it

1014
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: was americanized, But was it super traditional where the respect

1015
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: thing was really different from here?

1016
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 3: It was? It was, it was serious in that department,

1017
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 3: But I do think it was different, Like you're.

1018
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 4: Saying, tone down, it was.

1019
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 3: I mean it was kind of you know, even the

1020
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 3: fact that I was allowed to be there and kind

1021
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 3: of be this transplant as a jazz guitar player trying

1022
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 3: to fumble my way through other instruments, which was pretty

1023
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 3: pretty generous in them.

1024
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 4: Yeah that's cool. Did you touch his feet?

1025
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, that was a thing, absolutely, yeah, And it was.

1026
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 3: I just remember this lesson with a Parkhan was here.

1027
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 3: Here's how it went very i'll scare, very quickly. I

1028
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 3: went in, I you know, touched his feet, sat down.

1029
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 3: He said, let me see your guitar, and I handed

1030
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 3: him the guitar and he began tuning it. And he

1031
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 3: kept tuning it, and I thought, wow, that's never heard

1032
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 3: it so in tune, you know, I was, I just

1033
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 3: wasn't the tradition I came from. And he kept tuning it,

1034
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 3: and I kid you not, it was. We're probably about

1035
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 3: fifty minutes into the lessons, about ten minutes left. He's

1036
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 3: still tuning, trying to get every overtone to.

1037
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 4: Just really wait, he's tuning it the whole time.

1038
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 3: The entire lesson was him tuning and I'm watching him

1039
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 3: what it was at the end nor he plays a

1040
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 3: chord on it, and it's I've never heard a guitar

1041
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 3: so in tune in my life, really, And the majesty

1042
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 3: of it alone was just stunning because you heard, you

1043
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 3: heard everything. And then in the remaining ten minutes he

1044
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 3: taught me a raga scale and then I went home.

1045
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 3: That was it, but it was it was something to

1046
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 3: behold and witness. That is strange, it was all, but

1047
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 3: it was what I needed.

1048
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:31,919
Speaker 4: It was cool.

1049
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 3: It worked out, It worked out, yeah, but it was

1050
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 3: also I have to say this too about the guitar especially, Uh.

1051
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 3: The history of the guitar and a lot of music

1052
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 3: is that it's very native, right, It's it's a folkloric

1053
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 3: instrument all around the world. Yeah, right. But there's also

1054
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 3: another historical perspective. This is the guitar has always been

1055
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 3: an outsider, you know. Even for it to be legitimized

1056
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 3: as a classical instrument, it took a lot composers didn't

1057
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 3: want to write for it. He didn't, They didn't. You

1058
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 3: know Segovia really pushed for that. In jazz, the guitar

1059
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 3: has always been a little bit misunderstood. Yeah, not to

1060
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 3: those who care about it, but I know it can be.

1061
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 3: And yet it's got roots. So uh, this is what

1062
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 3: we're all in the business of reconciling. How can you

1063
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 3: forget about that it's a guitar. Just hear music, to

1064
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 3: see all abra kron concept. To see him tune the

1065
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:27,439
Speaker 3: guitar and put it in to give it that care

1066
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 3: was really profound because it was it showed me that

1067
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 3: it's worth it. It's worth it, it's worth it, and

1068
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 3: that's it.

1069
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 4: There was a lesson in how to approach things completely.

1070
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 3: That's interesting and that that's that that he made it

1071
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,439
Speaker 3: very legitimate to me in that moment.

1072
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 4: And that's so cool. So yes, it's really cool.

1073
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 3: Another beautiful thing of growing up where I grew up

1074
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 3: was to have access to it.

1075
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 1: And you know what his instrument was, the sroade. Yeah,

1076
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 1: how many strings does that have? Is it kind of

1077
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 1: like a sit down on your lap thing?

1078
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 3: Well, you placed it in your lap, but it's kind

1079
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 3: of guitaristic in terms of more guitar electrum, I use

1080
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 3: a pick.

1081
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 4: Is it more guitary than a sitar?

1082
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 2: More guitar?

1083
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 3: Web it's the only difference, though, maybe I should reconsider

1084
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 3: how I say. Is it's got no frets?

1085
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 4: Oh, it's slighty.

1086
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so slighty. So I was more in con with

1087
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 3: with that sushi of guitar.

1088
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,919
Speaker 1: That's cool and there's sympathetic strings and it's oh which

1089
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: is a pain to tune.

1090
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 3: Oh, that's probably why he said, you got sure how.

1091
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 4: They do it?

1092
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: Honestly, the boys sounds good when they get it.

1093
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 4: I took one lesson with my dad, went did you really?

1094
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1095
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: It was really sweet because we had reconnected and gotten

1096
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: pretty close after I sort of turned eighteen and I

1097
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,919
Speaker 1: was probably twenty five maybe, and I went or twenty six,

1098
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: and I went to India. I had gone through a

1099
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 1: breakup and I needed to escape some things. Yeah, And

1100
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: I went there for a few weeks to spend with him,

1101
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: and I brought a little travel guitar because it you know. Yeah,

1102
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: And I don't remember whose idea it was. I would

1103
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: have never probably asked. I probably would have been too shy. Yeah,

1104
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: but I was too shy. I was like kind of

1105
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 1: stubborn at that time. I'm not going to touch your feet.

1106
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 4: You know, I'm your daughter.

1107
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 2: This is weird.

1108
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 1: The whole cultural thing was just pretty foreign to me

1109
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,920
Speaker 1: because I didn't grow up around it completely, of course,

1110
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 1: but I think I might have touched them. I can't remember,

1111
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 1: but it was just such a thing, of course, It's

1112
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: just a sign of respect. So of course, and I

1113
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 1: went in and he was trying to teach me a

1114
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 1: song and I was trying to play it on guitar.

1115
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 4: It was it was funny. It was like really sweet

1116
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 4: that we tried kind of thing. But I think he.

1117
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: Thought of it too seriously, and I thought of it

1118
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: too not seriously, maybe yeah, or like.

1119
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 4: I just wanted to play. I just wanted a.

1120
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 3: Jam man of course though.

1121
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: But meanwhile he's He's Robbie Shankhar So he's like this amazing, insane,

1122
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 1: brilliant Also teacher was a very prolific teacher his whole life,

1123
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: that which is I think the whole tradition of.

1124
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 3: The musicolutely once you went through that experience with him,

1125
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 3: was that kind of understood mutually that that was good

1126
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 3: and we're going to kind of keep going on our

1127
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 3: past together.

1128
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: I honestly don't remember thinking about it much it's more

1129
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 1: like a reflection thing where I found I find it funny.

1130
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 3: That is so so sweet.

1131
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 4: No, I mean we had dinner and we made watch

1132
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 4: movies the rest of the week. It was fine. It's

1133
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 4: so great. It wasn't like.

1134
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you weren't pushing being pushed.

1135
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 4: I wasn't pushing and he wasn't pushing. God, it was

1136
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 4: a sweet moment. I'm glad we had that.

1137
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:33,439
Speaker 3: So thanks for sharing that. It's really cool. It's really

1138
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 3: cool to hear that.

1139
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 4: Well, do you want to try one more song?

1140
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 3: I would love to you name it. What do we have?

1141
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: Well, I have a selfish request for you.

1142
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 3: Oh I know.

1143
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: So for some reason, I was listening to your stuff

1144
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: and I was like, wait a second. I have this

1145
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: old song that I wrote that I never did anything with,

1146
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 1: and I found it in my voice memos and I

1147
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 1: sent it to you.

1148
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 3: It's I I love this and you completely spun my

1149
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 3: head around because I see it written out and I go, oh, yeah,

1150
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 3: I get it. But as music coming out of a speaker, it's.

1151
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 4: So it's weird.

1152
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 3: It's weird and beautiful, compelling. Yeah, so I'm glad you

1153
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 3: brought it to the table.

1154
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1155
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: I actually had a question that relates to this, because

1156
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 1: I called this is an instrumental song, and I called

1157
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 1: it preschool blues because I think at the time I

1158
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,640
Speaker 1: was applying to preschools for a kid, like literally in

1159
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 1: New York City. But I was wondering about your songs. Yeah,

1160
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: it's hard to come up with titles.

1161
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 3: For instrumental for instrumental, Oh yeah.

1162
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 4: They're really good. They're not contrived.

1163
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 3: Thanks for saying that.

1164
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 4: I mean, you.

1165
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 1: Generally just seem like you're not contrived. I guess it

1166
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:40,720
Speaker 1: makes sense. But do you have a hard time ever

1167
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: or do you just pluck what the like universe tells you.

1168
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,759
Speaker 3: I've kept a list for maybe fifteen years of titles

1169
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 3: that every time I hear something, I put it on

1170
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 3: a list. So at this point there's probably fifteen hundred.

1171
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:52,960
Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with me, nothing to do

1172
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 1: with me, just so that you have them, just so

1173
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 1: I have them.

1174
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 3: So interesting it be a turn of phrase. My father

1175
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 3: used to have them. People say things like, oh, that

1176
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 3: would be a good title. The trouble that I'll say

1177
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 3: this again all subject to change, but at this moment

1178
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 3: in time, the danger with titling instrumental songs is the

1179
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 3: for me is often the desire to sum up the emotion,

1180
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 3: you know, and I've increasingly learned it doesn't.

1181
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 4: Matter the emotional transit, it's.

1182
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 3: There that the title is almost more of an architectural component.

1183
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 4: So that's why it gets contrived. I think, of.

1184
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 3: Course, you say it's the infinity of the blip and

1185
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 3: the blob, and then it's like, okay, well sure, but

1186
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 3: it's not. I don't think it's our duty to really

1187
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 3: spell it out for anybody. So I increasingly gravitate towards

1188
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 3: titles that are nonchalant because they need to need to

1189
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:45,599
Speaker 3: be small enough to mean something and become a part

1190
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:46,879
Speaker 3: of the equation for the listener.

1191
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:51,599
Speaker 1: But on the other side, sometimes instrumentals have ridiculous ones,

1192
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 1: you know, like the pencil in the ceiling, stupid no untitled,

1193
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 1: you know, titled number seven for the pretty zero.

1194
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 3: But you know, it's funny. I'm a I like uh,

1195
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 3: I like typography, like I like fonts, you know, as

1196
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 3: I think a lot. Probably I'm not alone, I know.

1197
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 3: So for me, uh, it's always because that's such a

1198
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 3: dangerous thing where you can be too care free about it.

1199
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 3: A big part of is what does it look like?

1200
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 3: Written out, and what's it looks like in handwriting? What

1201
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 3: does it look like in typeface? Because that can determine

1202
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 3: how that cover is gonna look and how it's gonna

1203
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 3: look at iTunes or whatever.

1204
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 1: So so you're thinking, like an artist, I'm trying to

1205
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 1: well and it happens to be really fun, and I

1206
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 1: am very lucky to be.

1207
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 3: You know, Marvi Glassby is my partner, and she's as

1208
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 3: far as words and rhythm and cadence goes, she's a

1209
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 3: tremendous force. And so there are many things I show

1210
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 3: to her and I'll just say the name of the

1211
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 3: title and I feel like, no, all the energy left

1212
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 3: the room. I'll be right back.

1213
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:54,759
Speaker 4: That's so cute.

1214
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 3: Go consult the list.

1215
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 4: That's sweet.

1216
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of nice.

1217
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 1: I was wondering how she can stop her self from

1218
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 1: writing lyrics all your tunes, because there's just some lot.

1219
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 3: She she she does. She's she's got her hands full

1220
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 3: with her own things. But but I have to say

1221
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 3: this about of the many things I learned from her,

1222
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 3: just that we've been friends for so long. You know, yeah,

1223
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 3: we're going back. It's great. So, so, you know, I

1224
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 3: look up to Margaret deeply and one of the things

1225
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 3: she's taught me is there were a period, there's such

1226
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 3: a period in my life where I was looking to songwriters,

1227
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 3: you know, and I just moved to New York and

1228
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 3: I was just starting to hang out with Jesse we've

1229
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 3: referenced before, and I was kind of around this crew

1230
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 3: where people could be in a circle and say, well,

1231
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:36,680
Speaker 3: sing me your latest song, and then it would get

1232
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 3: to me and I don't sing, and I wouldn't know

1233
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 3: what to play, and I thought I needed to play

1234
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 3: with someone and and and I had this kind of

1235
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 3: I didn't feel sufficient, is my point. And Margaret helped

1236
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:50,719
Speaker 3: me realize that it's really it's it's just not true

1237
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 3: that with instrumental music you have a freedom to access

1238
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 3: emotions in an abstract way that is very liberating. It's

1239
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 3: not less than it's not it's not like, oh, this

1240
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:03,720
Speaker 3: would be great if only I was saying what I

1241
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 3: was really talking about. She's helped me see that, you know,

1242
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 3: this is this is an it's it's an ethereal realm

1243
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 3: for which I'm I'm devoted, you know. It's a good lesson.

1244
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 3: So so she's never been like, your song is great,

1245
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 3: ive only had lyrics and it would really you know,

1246
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 3: she's kind, she she accepts them. She says, no, that's great,

1247
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 3: you can if anything. She's been like, do the things

1248
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:25,600
Speaker 3: that you couldn't do with a singer. Now play with

1249
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 3: time and emotion and expectation because you don't have to

1250
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 3: deal with this other stuff. It's a very gracious way

1251
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 3: of phrasing.

1252
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1253
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 3: Well, I'm telling you I learned a lot. I learned

1254
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 3: a lot from her.

1255
01:13:09,520 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 13: And it s.

1256
01:15:00,439 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 18: T that's kind of cool though.

1257
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:47,719
Speaker 4: That was cool.

1258
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 3: I like the way that that I don't know, we

1259
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 3: did something that was cool. It I think your form

1260
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 3: because your form.

1261
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:56,760
Speaker 4: Well then I forgot how to play a blues.

1262
01:16:56,439 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 3: Form, because your form is very clear, like what this

1263
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 3: this is its own thing. I was like, well, maybe

1264
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 3: we were there, I know, we were just talking about

1265
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:07,759
Speaker 3: so they I mean, we both know that the blues

1266
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:10,680
Speaker 3: form is is not one thing. Yeah, it's true. It's

1267
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:13,639
Speaker 3: whatever you wanted to be at any given time.

1268
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 1: But it was funny because like I forgot how to

1269
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 1: play a blues form just now completely, and when I

1270
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:20,560
Speaker 1: was practicing it earlier, I also.

1271
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 4: Forgot how to play a blues form. So I was like,

1272
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 4: maybe it doesn't fit in that.

1273
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 3: Maybe you're onto something. Maybe it's what's the trouble in mind?

1274
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 3: Is that the one that's like an eight bar blues? Yeah,

1275
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 3: blues form is real relative in my thinking. So I

1276
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 3: like what we did, and then when it did go

1277
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 3: to blues, it's like, yeah, this is what you landed

1278
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 3: on side. Okay, that's perfect.

1279
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 4: No, you followed me when I was lost in the waste. No, no, no,

1280
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 4: you knows your SOULO.

1281
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:49,600
Speaker 3: Sorry, listen, we're it together. That's a great tune. Is

1282
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 3: that on a record you got?

1283
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:52,839
Speaker 4: No, No, it's just on my voice memos.

1284
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 3: No, that's fun.

1285
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 4: Thanks for doing this.

1286
01:17:57,640 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 3: It was Thanks for letting me do with.

1287
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 4: You, perfect subject. Thanks so much. This was a blast.

1288
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 3: It's really great. Thank you for having me.

1289
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:08,679
Speaker 4: I hope we thanks for doing Yeah, let's do more.

1290
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 3: Be so fun. Let's play, let's play. We could do it.

1291
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:12,120
Speaker 3: I could see it.

1292
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 4: I know we can and I know we will.

1293
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:14,479
Speaker 3: We will.

1294
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 4: The line is open.

1295
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 3: The line is open. All right, Thanks nor, thank you.

1296
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 1: Oh, thanks so much for listening. That was Julie so

1297
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 1: fun to play with. Yeah, and he's so curious as

1298
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:29,759
Speaker 1: a musician.

1299
01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, he is. That's the best.

1300
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 1: That's my favorite kind of musicians and very calm.

1301
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 5: He's a very has a very calming energy.

1302
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:39,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt zend out if you liked the show

1303
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:42,040
Speaker 1: today and want to know what we played. The first

1304
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,759
Speaker 1: song was a song written by Julian that I added

1305
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 1: some sneaky lyrics to in the end, called Day and

1306
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:50,640
Speaker 1: Age from the album World's Fair from twenty fifteen. The

1307
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,559
Speaker 1: second song we did was called Heartache, written by Lowell

1308
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: George and Ivan Olds. I know this song from a

1309
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 1: YouTube version that was a demo by Lowell George and

1310
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 1: Linda Ronstadt's also on his album Thanks I'll Eat It

1311
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 1: Here from nineteen seventy nine. Third song we did was

1312
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:08,679
Speaker 1: called Hymno from Julian's album Speak to Me twenty twenty four.

1313
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 1: And the last song we did was a song of

1314
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:13,200
Speaker 1: mine that I wrote a long time ago.

1315
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,280
Speaker 4: Called Preschool Blues. Special.

1316
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 1: Thanks to Julian laj for joining us today. We'll be

1317
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 1: back next week with Josh Hami. Norah Jones is playing

1318
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: along as a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host

1319
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:30,080
Speaker 1: Norah Jones. Today's episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed

1320
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:33,719
Speaker 1: by Jamie Landry, edited by Sarah Oda. Audio post prediction

1321
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 1: and mastering by Greg Tobler, artwork by Eliza Frye, photography

1322
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Speaker 1: by Shervin Linez, and produced by Me and Sarah Oda.

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Speaker 1: Executive producers Aaron wan Kaufman and Jordan Rentalk.

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Speaker 4: Marketing lead Queen A.

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Speaker 1: Nike, thanks so much for listening, then,