1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:06,518 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My 2 00:00:06,718 --> 00:00:14,358 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey there, welcome back to the Book of 3 00:00:14,478 --> 00:00:19,358 Speaker 1: Joe podcasts, and this is me Tom Berducci with Joe Madden. 4 00:00:19,998 --> 00:00:22,398 Speaker 1: And boy do we have a lot to talk about today. 5 00:00:22,678 --> 00:00:26,558 Speaker 1: Joe Madden, we're talking about history. Last night, Game four 6 00:00:26,718 --> 00:00:30,678 Speaker 1: of the World Series, a no hitter. You got Don 7 00:00:30,758 --> 00:00:34,278 Speaker 1: Larston in fifty six and you've got four Houston Astros 8 00:00:34,358 --> 00:00:38,678 Speaker 1: pictures getting it done against Philadelphia. That's it, hundred and 9 00:00:38,678 --> 00:00:42,638 Speaker 1: eighteen World Series and that's the second no hitter. Of course, 10 00:00:42,718 --> 00:00:45,678 Speaker 1: Don Larson through a perfect game. But just give me 11 00:00:45,718 --> 00:00:48,078 Speaker 1: your initial thoughts of what you watched last night, Joe. 12 00:00:48,398 --> 00:00:51,638 Speaker 1: The power of twenty four hours was in effect last night. Um, 13 00:00:52,278 --> 00:00:54,558 Speaker 1: from the night before, you know, McCullers just didn't have 14 00:00:54,598 --> 00:00:57,478 Speaker 1: his stuff, and all of a sudden, everybody's making the 15 00:00:57,518 --> 00:01:01,238 Speaker 1: Phillies the best hitting team since, um, the seven Yankees. 16 00:01:01,278 --> 00:01:04,278 Speaker 1: We always said that, and then last night Javier pitches 17 00:01:04,398 --> 00:01:06,078 Speaker 1: and does what he can do, and all of a sudden, 18 00:01:06,438 --> 00:01:09,198 Speaker 1: the script flips and it's it's really I've said it 19 00:01:09,238 --> 00:01:11,318 Speaker 1: a thousand times, if I said it once in the past, 20 00:01:11,358 --> 00:01:13,678 Speaker 1: it's that the game could have been called pitching as 21 00:01:13,678 --> 00:01:16,878 Speaker 1: opposed to baseball. Um, he was that good. He's been 22 00:01:16,918 --> 00:01:19,998 Speaker 1: that good hobbyer. I've seen him. Wow. Um, the last 23 00:01:20,038 --> 00:01:25,198 Speaker 1: couple of years in Houston and in Anaheim, the ball 24 00:01:25,278 --> 00:01:27,558 Speaker 1: just comes out differently. You can see where the hitter 25 00:01:27,598 --> 00:01:30,878 Speaker 1: is kind of surprised when the ball gets the home plate. Um, 26 00:01:30,958 --> 00:01:33,678 Speaker 1: he's a strike throw, he's aggressive, he's assertive. There's this 27 00:01:33,798 --> 00:01:36,598 Speaker 1: guy's and the fact that he really wasn't considered like 28 00:01:36,638 --> 00:01:39,438 Speaker 1: a normal part of the starting rotation is kind of 29 00:01:39,478 --> 00:01:42,238 Speaker 1: mind boggling. So yeah, the no hitter is is kind 30 00:01:42,278 --> 00:01:46,878 Speaker 1: of you don't you don't expect that much of a shift. 31 00:01:46,918 --> 00:01:49,038 Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm telling you, man, his stuff is that 32 00:01:49,038 --> 00:01:51,398 Speaker 1: Gould unrest of that book in a superb So it 33 00:01:51,518 --> 00:01:53,478 Speaker 1: is the power of twenty four hours. So you hit 34 00:01:53,478 --> 00:01:56,278 Speaker 1: a couple of homers the night before, and like I said, 35 00:01:56,278 --> 00:01:58,798 Speaker 1: everybody all of a sudden thinks that the Phillies are 36 00:01:58,838 --> 00:02:01,798 Speaker 1: gonna shift in another way. But truly about pitching and 37 00:02:01,838 --> 00:02:05,038 Speaker 1: the pitching last night really tipped into favor of the Astros. Yeah, 38 00:02:05,038 --> 00:02:07,878 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up that that Javier fastball. I 39 00:02:07,918 --> 00:02:11,438 Speaker 1: mean it is unbelievable. First of all, his velocity actually 40 00:02:11,478 --> 00:02:14,558 Speaker 1: was down from his average during the season, right, and 41 00:02:14,758 --> 00:02:17,398 Speaker 1: it's if you look at the radar gun, it's pretty 42 00:02:17,478 --> 00:02:22,918 Speaker 1: much an average big league fastball. But my goodness, from 43 00:02:22,918 --> 00:02:25,758 Speaker 1: the that release point, the way he slings it, the 44 00:02:25,918 --> 00:02:28,998 Speaker 1: ride on that pitch. You saw the Philadelphia Philly is 45 00:02:28,998 --> 00:02:30,838 Speaker 1: getting a look at him a second and third time, 46 00:02:31,158 --> 00:02:35,238 Speaker 1: still unable to adjust to get on top of that pitch. 47 00:02:35,278 --> 00:02:37,798 Speaker 1: That tells you how special it is. Here's a number 48 00:02:37,798 --> 00:02:41,758 Speaker 1: for you, Joe. He threw nine seven pitches. Seventy of 49 00:02:41,838 --> 00:02:47,278 Speaker 1: those were forcing fastballs. Beautiful, that's seventy two fastballs. Now 50 00:02:47,318 --> 00:02:49,798 Speaker 1: we have pitch tracking data like this going back to 51 00:02:49,838 --> 00:02:53,998 Speaker 1: two thousand eight. Okay, there has not been a World 52 00:02:54,038 --> 00:02:56,998 Speaker 1: Series game during all these years of pitch tracking since 53 00:02:57,038 --> 00:03:02,038 Speaker 1: two thousand eight in which somebody threw seventy four seam fastballs. 54 00:03:02,438 --> 00:03:04,918 Speaker 1: I mean, that's how special it was. Last night, people, 55 00:03:04,958 --> 00:03:07,198 Speaker 1: you were looking at a guy you talk about old 56 00:03:07,198 --> 00:03:09,718 Speaker 1: school baseball. Here it is trying to hit it. They 57 00:03:09,718 --> 00:03:11,638 Speaker 1: couldn't hit it. I mean you got to see it. 58 00:03:11,678 --> 00:03:13,478 Speaker 1: On the other side, you're with the Angels in the 59 00:03:13,518 --> 00:03:19,758 Speaker 1: same division as Javier. This is the Astros number four starter. Apparently. Wow. Yeah, well, 60 00:03:19,758 --> 00:03:21,638 Speaker 1: that's the whole point. I mean, the fact that this 61 00:03:21,718 --> 00:03:25,038 Speaker 1: guy is really down on their pecking order regarding starting pitching, 62 00:03:25,838 --> 00:03:27,718 Speaker 1: UM is incredible. And then they still have the kid 63 00:03:27,758 --> 00:03:31,118 Speaker 1: Garcia in the bullpen or whatever you might want to 64 00:03:31,158 --> 00:03:34,518 Speaker 1: call that. Yeah, it's a different look. UM. I wrote 65 00:03:34,518 --> 00:03:37,078 Speaker 1: down a little note to myself back in the early eighties, 66 00:03:37,158 --> 00:03:39,758 Speaker 1: I was managing, and um, i'd hoole falls and a 67 00:03:39,758 --> 00:03:41,678 Speaker 1: guy that kind of threw like that from the left 68 00:03:41,678 --> 00:03:44,838 Speaker 1: side was said Fernandez, And and sid was almost looked 69 00:03:44,878 --> 00:03:46,918 Speaker 1: like he was sitting down and then his arm would 70 00:03:46,918 --> 00:03:49,038 Speaker 1: come through late and the ball was at the top 71 00:03:49,078 --> 00:03:52,118 Speaker 1: of the zone right probably at that time nine one, 72 00:03:52,158 --> 00:03:55,318 Speaker 1: and the same kind of result. Nobody could catch up to. It. 73 00:03:55,598 --> 00:03:57,598 Speaker 1: Were recently in the bullpen again in the early two 74 00:03:57,638 --> 00:04:00,958 Speaker 1: thousand's there when we had the raised Jake McGee kind 75 00:04:00,998 --> 00:04:04,398 Speaker 1: of brought that to everybody's attention. Everybody wanted Jake to 76 00:04:04,478 --> 00:04:06,758 Speaker 1: throw more breaking balls or introduce a breaking ball, and 77 00:04:06,758 --> 00:04:09,438 Speaker 1: I'm saying, why why does he have to do that. 78 00:04:09,518 --> 00:04:12,078 Speaker 1: It's it's probably gonna be a ball. To think it's 79 00:04:12,118 --> 00:04:14,238 Speaker 1: gonna take the hitter off of his fastball, He's not. 80 00:04:15,078 --> 00:04:17,518 Speaker 1: It's not because you have to stay on the fastball first, 81 00:04:17,878 --> 00:04:20,478 Speaker 1: with a guy like Javier last night or a Jake 82 00:04:20,558 --> 00:04:23,238 Speaker 1: McGinn to pass or sit fer Nani's whatever, because you're 83 00:04:23,278 --> 00:04:25,518 Speaker 1: not gonna get to it if you don't. So as 84 00:04:25,558 --> 00:04:28,678 Speaker 1: some guys are just gifted, they give you a different look, um, 85 00:04:28,758 --> 00:04:31,198 Speaker 1: And yeah, you don't have to be a trick everybody. 86 00:04:31,198 --> 00:04:34,438 Speaker 1: And I also believe very Lander watching the game last night, 87 00:04:34,438 --> 00:04:36,478 Speaker 1: because we saw that a couple of days ago. I 88 00:04:36,478 --> 00:04:38,838 Speaker 1: thought his fastball is outstanding, and then I thought he 89 00:04:38,878 --> 00:04:40,838 Speaker 1: got beaten on his break and stuff that he really 90 00:04:40,918 --> 00:04:44,958 Speaker 1: tried to use. I thought more often in run scoring situations, 91 00:04:44,998 --> 00:04:48,238 Speaker 1: runners in scoring position. I'm curious tonight if you get 92 00:04:48,278 --> 00:04:51,238 Speaker 1: to that point there are runners in scoring position, if 93 00:04:51,278 --> 00:04:53,598 Speaker 1: in fact, he throws more of his elevated fastball, and 94 00:04:53,638 --> 00:04:55,118 Speaker 1: if he does go to the breaking ball, it's a 95 00:04:55,198 --> 00:04:57,878 Speaker 1: strike ball. It's in the dirt, it's down in a way, 96 00:04:57,918 --> 00:05:01,078 Speaker 1: it's something where somebody cannot reach. So even a veteran 97 00:05:01,118 --> 00:05:02,918 Speaker 1: like very Lander could learn from a young guy like 98 00:05:02,998 --> 00:05:05,478 Speaker 1: Habber from last night. Yeah, first of all, I love 99 00:05:05,558 --> 00:05:08,158 Speaker 1: your comps. There I covered, said Fernandez. He would push 100 00:05:08,198 --> 00:05:09,958 Speaker 1: the ball up to the plate and he was thrown 101 00:05:10,078 --> 00:05:12,838 Speaker 1: eight nine, and it seemed like it was ninety nine 102 00:05:12,918 --> 00:05:16,118 Speaker 1: because it seemed like it was coming uphill. With with ride, 103 00:05:16,598 --> 00:05:21,998 Speaker 1: Jake McGee would throw what fastballs, so the repetition of 104 00:05:22,038 --> 00:05:25,118 Speaker 1: seeing the pitch still didn't bother hitters. It's amazing and 105 00:05:25,118 --> 00:05:28,238 Speaker 1: that's Javier. We talked about ride in the game, Joe, 106 00:05:28,278 --> 00:05:30,678 Speaker 1: and then you've seen a lot of pictures where you say, man, 107 00:05:30,878 --> 00:05:34,478 Speaker 1: fastball's got late life. Right, people have to understand. Let 108 00:05:34,478 --> 00:05:37,998 Speaker 1: me just explain this. A fastball does not go uphill, right. 109 00:05:38,198 --> 00:05:40,798 Speaker 1: Javier releases the ball about five and a half feet 110 00:05:40,878 --> 00:05:43,318 Speaker 1: above the ground. When it hits the top of the 111 00:05:43,358 --> 00:05:46,358 Speaker 1: strike zone, it's three ft above the ground. So no, 112 00:05:46,558 --> 00:05:50,878 Speaker 1: it's not literally going uphill, it's going downhill. The differences 113 00:05:51,118 --> 00:05:54,318 Speaker 1: because he slings it because it's been so true north 114 00:05:54,358 --> 00:05:58,238 Speaker 1: and south that that ball fights gravity more than the 115 00:05:58,278 --> 00:06:02,318 Speaker 1: normal pitch, so it is not on a plane that 116 00:06:02,398 --> 00:06:06,518 Speaker 1: the hitter is trained to expected to be. So literally, 117 00:06:06,558 --> 00:06:09,558 Speaker 1: we can measure these things based on how fast he's throwing. 118 00:06:09,918 --> 00:06:13,398 Speaker 1: That his fastball actually holds its plane by three inches 119 00:06:13,558 --> 00:06:17,438 Speaker 1: above what a hitter would think it should be. What 120 00:06:17,518 --> 00:06:19,918 Speaker 1: does that mean? That means the hitter swing for a 121 00:06:19,998 --> 00:06:22,558 Speaker 1: spot and the ball is not there, or they're just 122 00:06:22,638 --> 00:06:25,838 Speaker 1: clipping the bottom of the baseball because the baseball is 123 00:06:25,878 --> 00:06:29,398 Speaker 1: coming in higher, because it's fighting gravity. It's literally not 124 00:06:29,878 --> 00:06:33,638 Speaker 1: falling as much as a normal fastball. That's why you 125 00:06:33,718 --> 00:06:36,278 Speaker 1: see and you saw that last night all the foul 126 00:06:36,278 --> 00:06:39,678 Speaker 1: balls straight back up in the air. The Phillies went in. 127 00:06:39,758 --> 00:06:42,678 Speaker 1: I talked to them about this, it's a top hand game. 128 00:06:42,838 --> 00:06:44,838 Speaker 1: Get on top of the fastball. I talked to Reese 129 00:06:44,918 --> 00:06:49,838 Speaker 1: Hoskins about almost trying to miss above the fastball here 130 00:06:50,078 --> 00:06:52,598 Speaker 1: to try to hit the middle of it. They still 131 00:06:52,718 --> 00:06:55,558 Speaker 1: couldn't do that. Listen. It was one of the most 132 00:06:55,598 --> 00:06:58,958 Speaker 1: extraordinary things that I've seen, especially in a World Series 133 00:06:59,038 --> 00:07:03,158 Speaker 1: game too. Essentially, and no disrespective slider. It's a great pitch, 134 00:07:03,518 --> 00:07:06,038 Speaker 1: a cent So they beat a red hot team with 135 00:07:06,078 --> 00:07:09,038 Speaker 1: one pitch. That pitch was that special. Yeah, the pitch 136 00:07:09,158 --> 00:07:12,358 Speaker 1: is antithetical to the launch angle, right. I mean, everybody's 137 00:07:12,358 --> 00:07:15,078 Speaker 1: trying to swing up at the ball more recently, although 138 00:07:15,118 --> 00:07:17,918 Speaker 1: some guys have flattened out, and I do believe there 139 00:07:17,998 --> 00:07:20,438 Speaker 1: is a kind of a shift going on. But if 140 00:07:20,478 --> 00:07:22,118 Speaker 1: you've been trained at all, the swing up at the 141 00:07:22,118 --> 00:07:24,278 Speaker 1: baseball in this ball, like you said, doesn't sink at all. 142 00:07:24,278 --> 00:07:27,038 Speaker 1: It's just kind of holds its plane. We're gonna have 143 00:07:27,078 --> 00:07:29,398 Speaker 1: a really hard time with that. From the side. It 144 00:07:29,518 --> 00:07:32,278 Speaker 1: literally does look though, like it does elevate. Sometimes it 145 00:07:32,358 --> 00:07:34,598 Speaker 1: really has that appearance. It might have something to do 146 00:07:34,678 --> 00:07:36,278 Speaker 1: with the slope and a distance from the mound to 147 00:07:36,318 --> 00:07:39,038 Speaker 1: home plate. But you could really see guys that you 148 00:07:39,078 --> 00:07:41,158 Speaker 1: will say in the dug up man his ball has 149 00:07:41,158 --> 00:07:43,638 Speaker 1: got great carry, and that's at the top of the zone. 150 00:07:43,638 --> 00:07:45,078 Speaker 1: But there was even back in a day, I caught 151 00:07:45,158 --> 00:07:49,438 Speaker 1: Mark Lankston in nine and Boulder, Colorado, and he's the 152 00:07:49,438 --> 00:07:51,638 Speaker 1: guy that taught me low carry. I mean, some guys 153 00:07:51,638 --> 00:07:53,158 Speaker 1: will throw the ball at the bottom of the zone 154 00:07:53,158 --> 00:07:55,918 Speaker 1: with such great spin that it will just hold it. 155 00:07:55,918 --> 00:07:58,278 Speaker 1: It's playing on the bottom part of the zone also 156 00:07:58,638 --> 00:08:00,478 Speaker 1: where you're expecting the ball to sink. As a hitter, 157 00:08:00,518 --> 00:08:03,438 Speaker 1: it just stays right there and it surprises the hitter 158 00:08:03,478 --> 00:08:05,998 Speaker 1: has a sure Mentally for me, I was trying to 159 00:08:05,998 --> 00:08:07,998 Speaker 1: get underneath the pitch. You get underneath it with your 160 00:08:08,038 --> 00:08:09,958 Speaker 1: mind so that you could catch it up and not 161 00:08:10,118 --> 00:08:12,718 Speaker 1: push it down out of the strike zone and give 162 00:08:12,758 --> 00:08:15,278 Speaker 1: the umpire better look. So there is such a thing. 163 00:08:15,438 --> 00:08:17,358 Speaker 1: There is high carry. I believe that you saw it 164 00:08:17,438 --> 00:08:19,478 Speaker 1: last night and it but I do believe there are 165 00:08:19,518 --> 00:08:22,278 Speaker 1: some gifted guys out there there pitched with low carry, 166 00:08:22,318 --> 00:08:24,718 Speaker 1: and that also surprises the hitter because the ball just 167 00:08:24,838 --> 00:08:27,798 Speaker 1: stays there when you expected to sink out of the zone. 168 00:08:27,998 --> 00:08:31,038 Speaker 1: Great observation. And I think of Walker Bueller, he is 169 00:08:31,078 --> 00:08:33,318 Speaker 1: great at the low carry, gets a lot of takes. 170 00:08:33,398 --> 00:08:35,518 Speaker 1: And Garrett Cole has made a living on the high 171 00:08:35,598 --> 00:08:38,998 Speaker 1: four seamer. Actually in the last year or two has 172 00:08:39,118 --> 00:08:41,598 Speaker 1: gone to more of those low four seamers and they 173 00:08:41,678 --> 00:08:43,998 Speaker 1: lock up hitters. They're not expecting that pitch to hold 174 00:08:43,998 --> 00:08:46,678 Speaker 1: its plane correct and their geared, their eyes up in 175 00:08:46,678 --> 00:08:50,038 Speaker 1: the strike zone for the four seamers, so effective, down 176 00:08:50,238 --> 00:08:53,718 Speaker 1: and up. And Joe is you being a former catcher, 177 00:08:53,718 --> 00:08:56,998 Speaker 1: I gotta ask you about the night for Christian Vasquez 178 00:08:57,078 --> 00:08:59,358 Speaker 1: to catch her, to keep putting down that one finger, 179 00:08:59,398 --> 00:09:01,878 Speaker 1: to call those fastballs. This is a guy who has 180 00:09:01,918 --> 00:09:05,958 Speaker 1: caught one complete game in the last thirty one days. 181 00:09:06,798 --> 00:09:09,758 Speaker 1: And Dusty Baker, the manager says, you know what, Christian 182 00:09:09,838 --> 00:09:13,638 Speaker 1: Vasquez has caught Christian Javier a few times. We like 183 00:09:13,798 --> 00:09:16,198 Speaker 1: what's going on here. I need a little more offense 184 00:09:16,238 --> 00:09:18,038 Speaker 1: in my game, So I'll give Maldon out of the 185 00:09:18,158 --> 00:09:21,358 Speaker 1: night off puts Vasquez back there. Not a rookie. Of course, 186 00:09:21,358 --> 00:09:23,318 Speaker 1: He's played in the postseason with the Red Sox, been 187 00:09:23,318 --> 00:09:27,118 Speaker 1: in big moments, but here he is now one complete game, 188 00:09:27,158 --> 00:09:29,838 Speaker 1: going into World Series game for in the last month, 189 00:09:30,398 --> 00:09:33,198 Speaker 1: and now he and Yogi Bearra are the only two 190 00:09:33,238 --> 00:09:35,798 Speaker 1: catchers in World Series history to catch No knows how 191 00:09:35,838 --> 00:09:38,038 Speaker 1: about that. I love it. And and he had the 192 00:09:38,438 --> 00:09:40,918 Speaker 1: I don't know the wherewithal the intelligence or just to feel. 193 00:09:40,998 --> 00:09:43,078 Speaker 1: I don't know what the game plan was, but maybe 194 00:09:43,118 --> 00:09:45,558 Speaker 1: as he saw the Phillies weren't reacting to his fastball, 195 00:09:46,278 --> 00:09:48,278 Speaker 1: to have your fastball that he kept putting down the 196 00:09:48,358 --> 00:09:50,838 Speaker 1: number one. And there's something to be said for that too. 197 00:09:50,998 --> 00:09:53,798 Speaker 1: Um A lot of times I've seen pictures because they've 198 00:09:53,838 --> 00:09:56,238 Speaker 1: thrown a couple of fastballs in a row, feels as 199 00:09:56,238 --> 00:09:58,398 Speaker 1: though they got to throw something differently even though the 200 00:09:58,438 --> 00:10:01,118 Speaker 1: hitters not reacting well to it. And more recently, I 201 00:10:01,198 --> 00:10:03,998 Speaker 1: give you two examples. Michael Lorenzen this past year at 202 00:10:04,038 --> 00:10:06,318 Speaker 1: the Angels, I just wanted to see him throw more fastballs, 203 00:10:06,318 --> 00:10:08,718 Speaker 1: more sinkers and change ups and really stayed away from 204 00:10:08,758 --> 00:10:11,358 Speaker 1: his break of ball, Maddy Garza. I had guards with 205 00:10:11,438 --> 00:10:14,238 Speaker 1: the arrays, and if the first pitch of the game 206 00:10:14,278 --> 00:10:16,478 Speaker 1: from Guards was downhill, which he was very good at 207 00:10:16,518 --> 00:10:18,718 Speaker 1: it ninety cult strike, I knew we were in for 208 00:10:18,798 --> 00:10:21,278 Speaker 1: a good day. And I actually challenged him. I said, man, 209 00:10:21,318 --> 00:10:22,998 Speaker 1: why should go up there one day and just throw 210 00:10:23,838 --> 00:10:26,398 Speaker 1: fastballs and see what happens? Is I'm telling you they're 211 00:10:26,398 --> 00:10:28,238 Speaker 1: not going to dig it out. And I feel the 212 00:10:28,278 --> 00:10:31,318 Speaker 1: same way about Lorenzen when he has his good sinker 213 00:10:31,358 --> 00:10:34,358 Speaker 1: fastball going on, just go ahead and and and challenge 214 00:10:34,398 --> 00:10:36,358 Speaker 1: them to dig this thing. I would love to see 215 00:10:36,358 --> 00:10:39,798 Speaker 1: that more often. But like you're saying last night, I 216 00:10:39,918 --> 00:10:42,198 Speaker 1: give Esque his credit. I'd love to know if that 217 00:10:42,278 --> 00:10:44,038 Speaker 1: was the game plan going in or if he just 218 00:10:44,078 --> 00:10:46,438 Speaker 1: decided at some point, listen, man, they're not getting any 219 00:10:46,438 --> 00:10:48,398 Speaker 1: good hacks at this guy. I'm just gonna stay with it. 220 00:10:48,558 --> 00:10:50,598 Speaker 1: Which if he did, I give him a lot of credit. Well, 221 00:10:50,638 --> 00:10:52,638 Speaker 1: I think you're right on the latter point. You know, 222 00:10:52,678 --> 00:10:55,638 Speaker 1: he told me that was the best fastball he has 223 00:10:55,678 --> 00:10:59,398 Speaker 1: ever seen, so I think it made pitch calling easy. Hey, 224 00:10:59,478 --> 00:11:02,638 Speaker 1: you slipped in there something about Justin Verlander, who is 225 00:11:02,718 --> 00:11:07,038 Speaker 1: the starter in game five for Houston. I want to 226 00:11:07,078 --> 00:11:09,518 Speaker 1: give you some insight on the conversation I had with 227 00:11:09,598 --> 00:11:13,118 Speaker 1: him about what went wrong in game one and what 228 00:11:13,198 --> 00:11:15,438 Speaker 1: he will take to the mound in Game five. Pretty 229 00:11:15,478 --> 00:11:18,278 Speaker 1: interesting stuff. He's always interesting to talk to. We'll talk 230 00:11:18,278 --> 00:11:26,678 Speaker 1: about that when we get back. Welcome back to the 231 00:11:26,678 --> 00:11:29,838 Speaker 1: Book of Joe podcast with me, Tom Berducci, and Joe Madden. 232 00:11:29,878 --> 00:11:33,758 Speaker 1: Of course, the Book of Joe. The book is out 233 00:11:33,878 --> 00:11:36,798 Speaker 1: wherever you buy your books. If you like this podcast, 234 00:11:36,798 --> 00:11:39,518 Speaker 1: if you hear something interesting, believe me, there's a million 235 00:11:39,518 --> 00:11:42,558 Speaker 1: more things that are of interest that I think you'll 236 00:11:42,598 --> 00:11:44,918 Speaker 1: really dig in our books. So check that out when 237 00:11:44,958 --> 00:11:48,638 Speaker 1: you can. In the meantime Game five tonight, Justin Verlander 238 00:11:48,678 --> 00:11:51,398 Speaker 1: I mentioned game one and Joe you noticed this as well. 239 00:11:51,638 --> 00:11:54,278 Speaker 1: Came out really hot with a really good fastball at 240 00:11:54,278 --> 00:11:56,238 Speaker 1: the top of his own. Second time around the lineup, 241 00:11:56,318 --> 00:11:58,918 Speaker 1: he went away from it and his breaking stuff was 242 00:11:58,958 --> 00:12:02,518 Speaker 1: not good. Thirty one breaking pitches for Justin Verlander in 243 00:12:02,558 --> 00:12:06,558 Speaker 1: Game one, one one swing and miss, the lowest in 244 00:12:06,638 --> 00:12:10,558 Speaker 1: his last seventy starts. So when I talked to Justin 245 00:12:10,598 --> 00:12:13,358 Speaker 1: about that, he talked about the fact that he hasn't 246 00:12:13,398 --> 00:12:16,398 Speaker 1: been out there competitively with all these days off within 247 00:12:16,558 --> 00:12:20,118 Speaker 1: the Astros were sweeping series in the early rounds, and 248 00:12:20,158 --> 00:12:24,278 Speaker 1: he got into lazy habits playing catch and throwing bullpen sessions, 249 00:12:24,918 --> 00:12:27,398 Speaker 1: and he said, there's nothing I can do to replicate 250 00:12:27,518 --> 00:12:30,318 Speaker 1: the edge you get from being in competition on the 251 00:12:30,438 --> 00:12:33,278 Speaker 1: game mount and he said, I went back here in 252 00:12:33,278 --> 00:12:37,878 Speaker 1: the last few days in between starts figured out something mechanically. Listen, 253 00:12:37,958 --> 00:12:39,838 Speaker 1: j V is one of the most positive guys in 254 00:12:39,878 --> 00:12:42,278 Speaker 1: the world, and he'll always find an answer. At least 255 00:12:42,318 --> 00:12:45,118 Speaker 1: going into a game. He feels like the breaking stuff 256 00:12:45,158 --> 00:12:47,558 Speaker 1: is going to be much better. But I agree with you, Joe. 257 00:12:47,718 --> 00:12:50,318 Speaker 1: When he gets that fastball at the top of his own, 258 00:12:51,078 --> 00:12:54,398 Speaker 1: he's got more velo than Javier, probably doesn't have quite 259 00:12:54,478 --> 00:12:57,558 Speaker 1: as much ride. But JV is at his best and 260 00:12:57,598 --> 00:12:59,958 Speaker 1: you've seen this plenty of times when he's upstairs with 261 00:12:59,998 --> 00:13:02,158 Speaker 1: the heater. I think he should stay with it if 262 00:13:02,198 --> 00:13:04,478 Speaker 1: it's working, and not think he has to show something 263 00:13:04,478 --> 00:13:07,318 Speaker 1: different second time around. Yeah, I'm curious too, because it's 264 00:13:07,358 --> 00:13:09,358 Speaker 1: it's hard to land that many breaking balls. If you 265 00:13:09,398 --> 00:13:12,638 Speaker 1: throw that many breaking balls in a limited start number 266 00:13:12,638 --> 00:13:14,598 Speaker 1: of innings like that, you're gonna make mistakes. There's you're 267 00:13:14,678 --> 00:13:19,278 Speaker 1: just gonna make mistakes and hitters. Um, they're gonna be 268 00:13:19,278 --> 00:13:22,398 Speaker 1: geared up to the fastball. They may look streat break 269 00:13:22,398 --> 00:13:24,198 Speaker 1: of ball, I'm not sure, but when you make a 270 00:13:24,238 --> 00:13:27,958 Speaker 1: mistake middle middle, or a slower pitch over the plate, 271 00:13:27,958 --> 00:13:29,918 Speaker 1: they're gonna hit it well. And that's what I thought 272 00:13:29,918 --> 00:13:32,598 Speaker 1: happened with him the other day. I love his fastball, 273 00:13:32,638 --> 00:13:35,958 Speaker 1: and it's not unlike you're saying, Um, Javiers. Maybe maybe 274 00:13:35,958 --> 00:13:39,998 Speaker 1: the characteristics don't equal the same regarding the data information, 275 00:13:40,038 --> 00:13:42,478 Speaker 1: but it's it's pretty good, pretty close. And the thing 276 00:13:42,518 --> 00:13:44,878 Speaker 1: about vryl Lander two is the conviction per pitch. I mean, 277 00:13:44,878 --> 00:13:48,558 Speaker 1: this guy really is convicted in what he's doing. Um. 278 00:13:48,598 --> 00:13:51,118 Speaker 1: And I think that in and of itself lends or 279 00:13:51,318 --> 00:13:54,438 Speaker 1: leads to a better fastball by any particular picture on 280 00:13:54,478 --> 00:13:57,478 Speaker 1: a given night. How much he believes in that pitch. Uh, 281 00:13:57,558 --> 00:13:59,838 Speaker 1: the hitter can feel that. You can even see from 282 00:13:59,838 --> 00:14:02,838 Speaker 1: the side where where the pictures really into his fastball. 283 00:14:02,878 --> 00:14:05,118 Speaker 1: He's proud of his fastball, all heads up. It's gonna 284 00:14:05,118 --> 00:14:07,038 Speaker 1: be a good pitch for him that night. So we'll 285 00:14:07,038 --> 00:14:08,918 Speaker 1: see how this plays out early. But on the other hand, 286 00:14:08,958 --> 00:14:11,518 Speaker 1: I if he doesn't do that, I and and turns 287 00:14:11,518 --> 00:14:13,238 Speaker 1: into the breaking ball. Dude, I think it's gonna end 288 00:14:13,278 --> 00:14:15,638 Speaker 1: up like Nol again. I mean, you know where it's 289 00:14:15,638 --> 00:14:17,918 Speaker 1: a four or five inning start at the most, which 290 00:14:17,918 --> 00:14:19,478 Speaker 1: should be fine. If they had the lead, I think 291 00:14:19,478 --> 00:14:21,838 Speaker 1: they would be satisfied with that, the Astros, based on 292 00:14:22,398 --> 00:14:25,438 Speaker 1: their excellent bullpen. But again, I'm curious tonight if he 293 00:14:26,518 --> 00:14:29,358 Speaker 1: I just think the observation he saw yesterday, and even 294 00:14:29,358 --> 00:14:31,118 Speaker 1: if the Phillies, if you know it's coming and it's 295 00:14:31,118 --> 00:14:32,758 Speaker 1: that good, there's not a whole lotch you can do 296 00:14:32,798 --> 00:14:35,518 Speaker 1: about it because he'll get elevated in on the lefties. 297 00:14:35,558 --> 00:14:38,518 Speaker 1: I love when he does that. Your lander, Um, then 298 00:14:38,558 --> 00:14:40,798 Speaker 1: you could get the breaking ball underneath them after he's 299 00:14:40,798 --> 00:14:44,478 Speaker 1: shown them that pitch upstairs. Um, he's got He's obviously 300 00:14:44,478 --> 00:14:46,078 Speaker 1: he's got a lot of weapons, but it's conviction of 301 00:14:46,118 --> 00:14:48,718 Speaker 1: the pitch. It's how much he believes in his in 302 00:14:48,758 --> 00:14:50,798 Speaker 1: his pitch as he proud of his fastball tonight, and 303 00:14:50,878 --> 00:14:53,238 Speaker 1: if he is, he's gonna have a very good evening. Well. 304 00:14:53,718 --> 00:14:56,358 Speaker 1: I think it's not an overestimation to say this is 305 00:14:56,398 --> 00:14:59,318 Speaker 1: a legacy game for Justin Verlander. Listen, he doesn't have 306 00:14:59,358 --> 00:15:01,398 Speaker 1: to prove himself He's going to the Hall of Fame, 307 00:15:01,438 --> 00:15:03,798 Speaker 1: we know that, but there is a huge haul in 308 00:15:03,958 --> 00:15:06,678 Speaker 1: his resume. He has never won a World Series game. 309 00:15:07,318 --> 00:15:09,718 Speaker 1: Worse than that, he has the highest e r A 310 00:15:09,838 --> 00:15:13,398 Speaker 1: in the history of the World Series, six point oh 311 00:15:13,438 --> 00:15:17,118 Speaker 1: seven six with a six oh seven in the World Series. 312 00:15:17,598 --> 00:15:20,798 Speaker 1: He knows it. He's taking that to the mound. So 313 00:15:20,838 --> 00:15:24,798 Speaker 1: it would be interesting to see what he gives the 314 00:15:24,798 --> 00:15:27,198 Speaker 1: Euston Astros. But I'll tell you this, Joe, I'm glad 315 00:15:27,198 --> 00:15:30,558 Speaker 1: you brought up the fastball issue here because the Euston 316 00:15:30,638 --> 00:15:33,518 Speaker 1: Astros the way they're pitching Bryce Harper. And first of all, 317 00:15:33,518 --> 00:15:35,518 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, the Astros believe no matter what 318 00:15:35,558 --> 00:15:38,998 Speaker 1: the numbers are showing about Philadelphia against high fastballs, they 319 00:15:39,038 --> 00:15:42,638 Speaker 1: believe they are going to beat Philadelphia with high fastballs. 320 00:15:43,398 --> 00:15:46,598 Speaker 1: It's just it's their strength and they don't believe the 321 00:15:46,718 --> 00:15:49,878 Speaker 1: numbers actually show with the Phillies can handle it pretty well. 322 00:15:50,078 --> 00:15:52,038 Speaker 1: But the lineup right now, they think they can attack 323 00:15:52,078 --> 00:15:54,638 Speaker 1: you with high fastballs, and we're seeing that with Bryce Harper. 324 00:15:54,838 --> 00:15:58,518 Speaker 1: This is a number that might surprise you. The Euston 325 00:15:58,598 --> 00:16:06,238 Speaker 1: Astros are throwing Bryce Harper fastballs eighty one percent fastballs 326 00:16:06,318 --> 00:16:10,158 Speaker 1: in the World Series. Now, when they get fastballs above 327 00:16:10,238 --> 00:16:12,758 Speaker 1: the middle part of the strike zone, I'm not even 328 00:16:12,758 --> 00:16:16,278 Speaker 1: talking about the top shelf. Harper does not have a hit. 329 00:16:16,598 --> 00:16:20,558 Speaker 1: Thirty seven fastballs above the top half of the strike zone, 330 00:16:20,838 --> 00:16:24,358 Speaker 1: he does not have a hit. Verlander last time through 331 00:16:24,358 --> 00:16:28,598 Speaker 1: Bryce Harper nine pitches. Eight of those were fastballs. The 332 00:16:28,678 --> 00:16:32,278 Speaker 1: one that wasn't was a slider that Harper got for 333 00:16:32,318 --> 00:16:36,238 Speaker 1: a single. So when you watched the game tonight, you like, 334 00:16:36,358 --> 00:16:39,678 Speaker 1: may should be shocked if they throw Bryce Harper very 335 00:16:39,758 --> 00:16:42,158 Speaker 1: much anything else but high fastball. Of course, you gotta 336 00:16:42,158 --> 00:16:45,958 Speaker 1: make something in outside the zone, but high fastball. Diet 337 00:16:45,998 --> 00:16:50,358 Speaker 1: on Bryce Harper, it is amazing in the World Series. Yeah, 338 00:16:50,798 --> 00:16:52,638 Speaker 1: it's all about the bad angle. I mean you, for 339 00:16:52,758 --> 00:16:55,078 Speaker 1: years before all this tech came along, I usually just 340 00:16:55,118 --> 00:16:58,438 Speaker 1: sit there and watched videos of the action pitch. So 341 00:16:58,558 --> 00:17:00,558 Speaker 1: the guy that the pitch he struck out on, that 342 00:17:00,638 --> 00:17:02,478 Speaker 1: he walked on, that he got a hit on, got 343 00:17:02,478 --> 00:17:05,278 Speaker 1: made an out on. I would just much that swing 344 00:17:05,318 --> 00:17:08,078 Speaker 1: and Diego Lopez used to give me a videotape, but 345 00:17:08,318 --> 00:17:10,078 Speaker 1: it took me about five minutes to watch. But I 346 00:17:10,158 --> 00:17:12,798 Speaker 1: was always into the angle of the bat, and that 347 00:17:12,838 --> 00:17:15,358 Speaker 1: would tell you exactly pretty much where this guy is 348 00:17:15,398 --> 00:17:18,118 Speaker 1: capable of hitting a pitch or not getting back to 349 00:17:18,158 --> 00:17:20,518 Speaker 1: the l a launch angle component of this whole thing. 350 00:17:20,638 --> 00:17:22,838 Speaker 1: If if in fact you want to swing up and 351 00:17:22,838 --> 00:17:25,078 Speaker 1: you're trying to lift everything, of course, it just makes 352 00:17:25,078 --> 00:17:27,678 Speaker 1: sense to get the ball up in the strikes and 353 00:17:27,798 --> 00:17:30,758 Speaker 1: or elevated in is almost impossible to do damage with. 354 00:17:31,238 --> 00:17:32,678 Speaker 1: You might you might be able to fight it off 355 00:17:32,718 --> 00:17:36,238 Speaker 1: the other way, but to really um drive that ball 356 00:17:36,398 --> 00:17:39,518 Speaker 1: is way it's much more problematic. It's not gonna happen. 357 00:17:39,918 --> 00:17:41,518 Speaker 1: The guys. And then again there's the guys with the 358 00:17:41,518 --> 00:17:43,398 Speaker 1: flatter swings, the guys that are able to get on 359 00:17:43,478 --> 00:17:47,158 Speaker 1: top what's Eduar Martinez used to practice with the batting 360 00:17:47,158 --> 00:17:49,518 Speaker 1: tea on top of a milk carton or something like that, 361 00:17:49,958 --> 00:17:52,158 Speaker 1: and he would put it way inside. Donnie Slott did 362 00:17:52,198 --> 00:17:55,198 Speaker 1: the same thing way inside to get the hands through 363 00:17:55,198 --> 00:17:57,238 Speaker 1: in the bat head to the ball on the ball 364 00:17:57,278 --> 00:17:59,798 Speaker 1: elevated and elevated in just as a practice routine, but 365 00:17:59,838 --> 00:18:02,958 Speaker 1: it would get their hands ready for the game. All 366 00:18:02,958 --> 00:18:05,158 Speaker 1: the other methods are being taught now it's more about 367 00:18:05,918 --> 00:18:08,678 Speaker 1: lifting the ball in and angles, etcetera. So it just 368 00:18:08,758 --> 00:18:10,918 Speaker 1: makes sense and and and if you're if you're gonna 369 00:18:10,958 --> 00:18:14,358 Speaker 1: be uh disposed to swing that kind of an angle, 370 00:18:14,398 --> 00:18:16,878 Speaker 1: which that Bryce is and a lot of other guys are. 371 00:18:16,918 --> 00:18:20,438 Speaker 1: The elevated outside quadrant is open to not down in 372 00:18:20,438 --> 00:18:22,638 Speaker 1: a way, not middle down in a way. That's that's 373 00:18:22,718 --> 00:18:25,078 Speaker 1: right into your barrel. You get it above the barrel, 374 00:18:25,078 --> 00:18:27,678 Speaker 1: and it's really hard to catch up to when it's 375 00:18:27,758 --> 00:18:30,358 Speaker 1: ninety five plus. Brother, it gets there real quickly and 376 00:18:30,358 --> 00:18:34,118 Speaker 1: and it almost feels like a Gardner speed in front 377 00:18:34,118 --> 00:18:36,598 Speaker 1: of home plate. So it's just it's just common sense stuff. 378 00:18:36,918 --> 00:18:39,158 Speaker 1: I'm always into watching a bad angle. And if I 379 00:18:39,198 --> 00:18:40,918 Speaker 1: didn't see, if I didn't know a picture that we're 380 00:18:40,918 --> 00:18:43,478 Speaker 1: playing against, I would go on with the Cubs IVY, 381 00:18:44,558 --> 00:18:45,918 Speaker 1: and I want to see the picture where you used 382 00:18:45,958 --> 00:18:48,238 Speaker 1: to even be able to get minor league videotape of 383 00:18:48,278 --> 00:18:50,638 Speaker 1: these guys, and I would either be confident or less 384 00:18:50,638 --> 00:18:52,918 Speaker 1: confident just based on where this guy through the ball 385 00:18:52,958 --> 00:18:55,478 Speaker 1: primarily and the shape of his pitches. And then you 386 00:18:55,558 --> 00:18:57,598 Speaker 1: just you put your hitter in your mind's eye up 387 00:18:57,598 --> 00:19:00,078 Speaker 1: at the plate and how does this bat work? And 388 00:19:00,118 --> 00:19:02,758 Speaker 1: then you could you could actually make determinations right there. 389 00:19:02,758 --> 00:19:04,318 Speaker 1: If there's somebody you want to give it day off 390 00:19:04,358 --> 00:19:07,718 Speaker 1: of so it's some of it. Of course, I'll pay 391 00:19:07,758 --> 00:19:09,318 Speaker 1: attention to the numbers in the dat of a lot 392 00:19:09,358 --> 00:19:11,878 Speaker 1: of it just observation and the hitter will tell you 393 00:19:11,878 --> 00:19:13,918 Speaker 1: what he's capable of doing, and of course the picture 394 00:19:14,278 --> 00:19:16,918 Speaker 1: with his abilities, how do they match up to that guy. 395 00:19:17,038 --> 00:19:20,358 Speaker 1: So going into tonight's game, I would think of Berlin, 396 00:19:20,478 --> 00:19:23,238 Speaker 1: is gonna want to simplify and not overthink this thing. 397 00:19:23,518 --> 00:19:26,398 Speaker 1: Based on everything you just talked about, so I would 398 00:19:26,438 --> 00:19:28,838 Speaker 1: see I'd like to see a much more primal approach 399 00:19:28,878 --> 00:19:31,998 Speaker 1: by him. Conviction to pitch. Here we go. This is 400 00:19:32,038 --> 00:19:34,198 Speaker 1: me one on one kind of stuff, and I think 401 00:19:34,198 --> 00:19:36,158 Speaker 1: if he does that, he can be successful. And on 402 00:19:36,278 --> 00:19:38,558 Speaker 1: the mouth for Philadelphia is a guy you manage this year. 403 00:19:38,598 --> 00:19:42,998 Speaker 1: Noah's synderguard. Now, don't expect the long start. It's pretty 404 00:19:43,078 --> 00:19:47,158 Speaker 1: much a bullpen game for me. It's probably eleven batters. 405 00:19:47,198 --> 00:19:49,478 Speaker 1: And they say that because when the lineup turns around 406 00:19:49,478 --> 00:19:53,078 Speaker 1: a second time, it's your done. Alvarez, that is really 407 00:19:53,118 --> 00:19:56,238 Speaker 1: the pivot point each night for Rob Thompson. So if 408 00:19:56,238 --> 00:20:00,398 Speaker 1: it's a anything other than say a three run lead 409 00:20:00,558 --> 00:20:03,798 Speaker 1: for Philadelphia, I think he goes to the bullpen. That 410 00:20:03,958 --> 00:20:06,598 Speaker 1: early in the game. So don't expect length out of 411 00:20:06,598 --> 00:20:08,998 Speaker 1: Synderguard tonight. You're right, I mean that's all. Those are 412 00:20:09,078 --> 00:20:11,958 Speaker 1: great points and and accurate, I think. Um, but it's 413 00:20:11,958 --> 00:20:14,158 Speaker 1: really hard to know what to expect from no knows. 414 00:20:14,478 --> 00:20:16,438 Speaker 1: You know, he's a starting pitcher, he's a throw brad, 415 00:20:16,438 --> 00:20:19,318 Speaker 1: He's done it for forever, and when you get such 416 00:20:20,438 --> 00:20:23,798 Speaker 1: levels of windows of inactivity, it's hard. This is this 417 00:20:23,838 --> 00:20:26,198 Speaker 1: is where it's hard to talked about it yesterday, where 418 00:20:26,238 --> 00:20:28,358 Speaker 1: the relief picture could have a couple of days off 419 00:20:28,398 --> 00:20:30,918 Speaker 1: and still maintain his sharpness. He's thrown one innings one 420 00:20:30,958 --> 00:20:33,598 Speaker 1: inning and maybe have two pitches that command were a 421 00:20:33,638 --> 00:20:36,598 Speaker 1: starter needs to have feel of all of his pitches 422 00:20:36,638 --> 00:20:38,238 Speaker 1: and know what he's doing and get into the game 423 00:20:38,878 --> 00:20:41,078 Speaker 1: normally gradually get into the game as opposed to really 424 00:20:41,238 --> 00:20:44,918 Speaker 1: has to get into the game immediately. Um. So I'm curious. 425 00:20:44,958 --> 00:20:47,598 Speaker 1: I agree with you. I'd love to see him do well. 426 00:20:47,598 --> 00:20:51,198 Speaker 1: I like the man a lot, But when when Alberist 427 00:20:51,238 --> 00:20:54,718 Speaker 1: comes around that second time, absolutely and I but you're right, 428 00:20:54,798 --> 00:20:56,558 Speaker 1: if there's a three or four point lead at that point, 429 00:20:56,598 --> 00:20:59,438 Speaker 1: you could be more tolerant with Noah. Hey, quick break here. 430 00:20:59,518 --> 00:21:01,878 Speaker 1: When we get back. I gotta tell you a story 431 00:21:02,478 --> 00:21:07,118 Speaker 1: about Rob Tom's him and also the boss I'm talking about, 432 00:21:07,198 --> 00:21:16,158 Speaker 1: Dave Dombrowski. Either We'll be right back. Welcome back to 433 00:21:16,158 --> 00:21:19,558 Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcast. Rob Thompson, baseball lifer of course, 434 00:21:19,678 --> 00:21:22,598 Speaker 1: manager of the Philadelphia Philly is trying to become only 435 00:21:22,638 --> 00:21:24,918 Speaker 1: the third manager to take over a team in the 436 00:21:24,918 --> 00:21:27,878 Speaker 1: middle of the season and win the World Series, the 437 00:21:27,918 --> 00:21:31,958 Speaker 1: others being Bob Lemon and Jack mckinn. I gotta tell 438 00:21:31,998 --> 00:21:33,718 Speaker 1: this story because the last couple of weeks I have 439 00:21:33,838 --> 00:21:36,318 Speaker 1: not been able to get this in on the Fox broadcast, 440 00:21:36,438 --> 00:21:40,158 Speaker 1: and I love this story. Rob Thompson took over in 441 00:21:40,958 --> 00:21:43,118 Speaker 1: sometime around the middle of the season that Phillies are 442 00:21:43,118 --> 00:21:46,038 Speaker 1: twenty two and twenty nine, when he was hired to 443 00:21:46,118 --> 00:21:50,438 Speaker 1: replace Joe Girardi. Now Rob Thompson, he got his once 444 00:21:50,438 --> 00:21:53,198 Speaker 1: to his first major League game back in seventy two. 445 00:21:53,238 --> 00:21:55,518 Speaker 1: He's from Canada, across the border from Detroit, so it 446 00:21:55,558 --> 00:21:57,758 Speaker 1: was that Tiger Stadium. His dad brings from the old 447 00:21:57,758 --> 00:22:00,118 Speaker 1: Tiger Stadium and they hang around after the game to 448 00:22:00,158 --> 00:22:03,078 Speaker 1: go to the players parking lot and he sees guys 449 00:22:03,118 --> 00:22:07,118 Speaker 1: like Mickey Lowell. It's Bill freeha al Ka line. They're 450 00:22:07,158 --> 00:22:10,958 Speaker 1: going to their cars and they are all dressed really nicely. 451 00:22:11,518 --> 00:22:14,918 Speaker 1: They're wearing suits. And his dad, Jack, who's also his coach, 452 00:22:14,998 --> 00:22:18,758 Speaker 1: worked blue collar job at a factory in Canada. Says, Son, 453 00:22:19,278 --> 00:22:22,838 Speaker 1: that's how a major league a dresses. And then he 454 00:22:22,918 --> 00:22:25,798 Speaker 1: never forgot that. Rob Thompson the impression of a young 455 00:22:25,838 --> 00:22:29,398 Speaker 1: boy from his dad and seeing major leaguers. Well, fast forward, 456 00:22:29,478 --> 00:22:32,958 Speaker 1: Jack passed away and Rob and his brothers talked about 457 00:22:32,998 --> 00:22:35,758 Speaker 1: a way to honor their dad. And at the time 458 00:22:35,878 --> 00:22:37,518 Speaker 1: Rob was working in the minor league system of the 459 00:22:37,518 --> 00:22:40,158 Speaker 1: New York Yankees, and they decided, Rob, if you ever 460 00:22:40,198 --> 00:22:42,798 Speaker 1: do make to the big leagues, you can honor Jack 461 00:22:42,878 --> 00:22:46,718 Speaker 1: by excuse me, by wearing a suit on the road, 462 00:22:46,998 --> 00:22:49,598 Speaker 1: which Joe Madden, as you know, not too many guys 463 00:22:49,678 --> 00:22:53,038 Speaker 1: do these days. And Rob Thompson has done that ever since. 464 00:22:53,238 --> 00:22:56,638 Speaker 1: He has worn a suit on the road, old school style, 465 00:22:57,758 --> 00:23:00,998 Speaker 1: to honor his father. So there was one day this 466 00:23:01,118 --> 00:23:03,838 Speaker 1: year the Phillies are playing a getaway day or leave 467 00:23:04,078 --> 00:23:08,038 Speaker 1: Citizens Bank Ballpark. It's Father's Day. Rob Thompson walks into 468 00:23:08,078 --> 00:23:11,438 Speaker 1: the clubhouse and he sees his guys putting on suits, 469 00:23:11,798 --> 00:23:15,038 Speaker 1: jackets and ties, and believe me, that stood out like 470 00:23:15,398 --> 00:23:19,238 Speaker 1: whoa Rob Thompson says, guys, what's going on? And they said, skip, 471 00:23:19,318 --> 00:23:22,638 Speaker 1: we're doing this to honor you and your dad. So 472 00:23:22,838 --> 00:23:25,438 Speaker 1: they all wore suits on the trip. They took a 473 00:23:25,518 --> 00:23:28,838 Speaker 1: picture in front of the plane and that There is 474 00:23:28,878 --> 00:23:32,478 Speaker 1: only one picture hanging on the wall of Rob Thompson's office. 475 00:23:32,558 --> 00:23:34,758 Speaker 1: It still looks like a guy who's you know, a 476 00:23:34,878 --> 00:23:37,718 Speaker 1: temp on the job. He has not exactly moved into 477 00:23:37,758 --> 00:23:40,118 Speaker 1: the office, but there is one picture on his wall 478 00:23:40,638 --> 00:23:42,998 Speaker 1: and that's the picture of Rob Thompson in his suit 479 00:23:43,118 --> 00:23:46,038 Speaker 1: and wearing a fedora by the way, with his guys, 480 00:23:46,238 --> 00:23:50,078 Speaker 1: his baseball players wearing suits standing in front of the 481 00:23:50,118 --> 00:23:52,678 Speaker 1: plane in honor of Jack Thompson. I thought his a 482 00:23:52,678 --> 00:23:55,478 Speaker 1: beautiful story. It tells you about the background of who 483 00:23:55,798 --> 00:23:57,758 Speaker 1: Rob Thompson is, and it tells you how much these 484 00:23:57,758 --> 00:24:00,878 Speaker 1: players love their manager. And Joe, you're a guy you 485 00:24:00,998 --> 00:24:05,158 Speaker 1: made listen, you made theme trips for amos guys getting 486 00:24:05,198 --> 00:24:08,158 Speaker 1: on the road and having fun. But uh wow, the 487 00:24:08,198 --> 00:24:10,438 Speaker 1: story still touches me. And Rob when he told me 488 00:24:10,478 --> 00:24:13,358 Speaker 1: this story, he actually got choked up just telling the story, 489 00:24:13,398 --> 00:24:14,958 Speaker 1: and he got choked at the time when he walked 490 00:24:14,958 --> 00:24:17,238 Speaker 1: in and saw his guys in suits. Pretty cool stuff, 491 00:24:17,838 --> 00:24:19,998 Speaker 1: no doubt, no doubt. If you think you look hot 492 00:24:20,038 --> 00:24:23,238 Speaker 1: where it that's my That's basically my my road trip 493 00:24:23,318 --> 00:24:26,238 Speaker 1: dress code. But I love all of that. Out of 494 00:24:26,278 --> 00:24:29,038 Speaker 1: respect to your pop to do something like that makes 495 00:24:29,078 --> 00:24:31,398 Speaker 1: all the sense in the world, and it is very 496 00:24:31,438 --> 00:24:35,278 Speaker 1: touching and have the players just band together and let's 497 00:24:35,358 --> 00:24:37,758 Speaker 1: we're gonna do this for Rob and his pop. Yeah, 498 00:24:37,758 --> 00:24:40,518 Speaker 1: I would start crying. I probably have started crying if 499 00:24:40,518 --> 00:24:42,638 Speaker 1: it was me in reverse that the players did that, 500 00:24:42,958 --> 00:24:45,878 Speaker 1: and out of respect for my father too. Um, it's 501 00:24:45,878 --> 00:24:49,438 Speaker 1: awesome and it also, um kind of defines what's going 502 00:24:49,478 --> 00:24:50,998 Speaker 1: on with them right now when you have that kind 503 00:24:50,998 --> 00:24:53,198 Speaker 1: of buying from the whole group with the manager and 504 00:24:53,238 --> 00:24:57,598 Speaker 1: the coaches, etcetera. Um, you just it's it's really because 505 00:24:57,598 --> 00:24:59,038 Speaker 1: I don't want to use the word easier, but it 506 00:24:59,078 --> 00:25:01,478 Speaker 1: really helps a lot when you get to these times 507 00:25:01,518 --> 00:25:03,558 Speaker 1: of the year that you have that kind of cohesiveness 508 00:25:03,558 --> 00:25:05,878 Speaker 1: among the group. It shows up on the field, that 509 00:25:05,918 --> 00:25:08,798 Speaker 1: shows up in in uh, in tough moments, It shows 510 00:25:08,878 --> 00:25:11,798 Speaker 1: up after tough losses like today, when you could just 511 00:25:11,798 --> 00:25:14,398 Speaker 1: put in the review mirror and move on. So uh, 512 00:25:14,518 --> 00:25:16,358 Speaker 1: kudos to all those guys. I love the fact that 513 00:25:16,438 --> 00:25:19,158 Speaker 1: Robbie does that, and it really respect the players for 514 00:25:19,198 --> 00:25:23,918 Speaker 1: following following suit no pun attended. Yeah, it still works 515 00:25:24,038 --> 00:25:26,518 Speaker 1: very well. And on the other side, Dusty Baker, Oh 516 00:25:26,558 --> 00:25:29,478 Speaker 1: my goodness, you talk about the Forest Gump of baseball, 517 00:25:30,198 --> 00:25:34,638 Speaker 1: Dusty Baker, and they've been two, well three postseason no hitters, right, 518 00:25:34,718 --> 00:25:37,358 Speaker 1: and we talked about Don Larson now the Astros combined 519 00:25:37,358 --> 00:25:40,158 Speaker 1: no hitter, and of course Roy Halliday back in the DS, 520 00:25:41,158 --> 00:25:44,798 Speaker 1: Dusty Baker was the opposing manager for the Reds when 521 00:25:44,798 --> 00:25:47,478 Speaker 1: Howiday threw that No. No in the Division Series. So 522 00:25:47,958 --> 00:25:52,598 Speaker 1: three postseason no hitters and Dusty has been the visiting 523 00:25:52,638 --> 00:25:55,518 Speaker 1: manager and two of them. You know, he was there 524 00:25:55,558 --> 00:25:57,638 Speaker 1: when Bonds broke the home run record. He was there 525 00:25:57,678 --> 00:25:59,398 Speaker 1: for the Bartman game. He was there for the first 526 00:25:59,518 --> 00:26:02,678 Speaker 1: high five in baseball history with Glenn Burke. He was 527 00:26:02,758 --> 00:26:05,478 Speaker 1: there for Fernando Mania. It. Uh. You can go on 528 00:26:05,598 --> 00:26:08,638 Speaker 1: and on with this baseball life of Dusty Baker and 529 00:26:08,678 --> 00:26:10,798 Speaker 1: the things he has seen, but I will tell you this. 530 00:26:11,038 --> 00:26:13,438 Speaker 1: I talked to Dusty on the field after the game, Joe, 531 00:26:14,478 --> 00:26:17,478 Speaker 1: and listen, I know it's not Don Larson, but it's 532 00:26:17,478 --> 00:26:19,478 Speaker 1: it's still a no hitter, even if it's a combined 533 00:26:19,518 --> 00:26:23,478 Speaker 1: no hitter. Dusty Baker had a happiness and a smile 534 00:26:23,638 --> 00:26:26,438 Speaker 1: on his face that went beyond the fact that the 535 00:26:26,438 --> 00:26:29,558 Speaker 1: Astros tied the series. Yeah, it's an important win. This 536 00:26:29,638 --> 00:26:33,638 Speaker 1: is a guy who understands baseball history, appreciates it. And 537 00:26:33,678 --> 00:26:38,118 Speaker 1: I'm telling you he was absolutely beaming knowing that he 538 00:26:38,198 --> 00:26:40,878 Speaker 1: was a part of World Series history. He just kind 539 00:26:40,878 --> 00:26:42,278 Speaker 1: of took the words out of my mouth. He's a 540 00:26:42,318 --> 00:26:45,878 Speaker 1: baseball lifer. He appreciates those kind of those kind of moments. 541 00:26:46,518 --> 00:26:49,878 Speaker 1: Obviously having been there for the being in the dugout 542 00:26:49,918 --> 00:26:52,798 Speaker 1: for the reds Um really stands out. Of course had 543 00:26:52,798 --> 00:26:55,758 Speaker 1: happened for him last night, and he was He's a 544 00:26:55,798 --> 00:26:57,878 Speaker 1: storian of the game. He's definitely aware of what Don 545 00:26:57,918 --> 00:27:00,878 Speaker 1: Larson did back in the day with the Yankees. Um, So, 546 00:27:00,918 --> 00:27:03,078 Speaker 1: I really I I could as you're saying all those 547 00:27:03,078 --> 00:27:05,798 Speaker 1: different things, you just a Dusty grinning ear to ear, 548 00:27:06,558 --> 00:27:09,398 Speaker 1: really taking in the moment. I'm sure he was attempting 549 00:27:09,438 --> 00:27:12,198 Speaker 1: to take in the moment, not having to go too 550 00:27:12,238 --> 00:27:15,518 Speaker 1: quickly for him not being lost on him how significant 551 00:27:15,558 --> 00:27:18,438 Speaker 1: this day was. And you're right under those circumstances, I 552 00:27:18,438 --> 00:27:21,758 Speaker 1: think what you had ninety seven pictures after six innings. 553 00:27:21,758 --> 00:27:24,478 Speaker 1: He knew he wasn't gonna throw a complete game though, 554 00:27:24,518 --> 00:27:26,998 Speaker 1: hit her that night because there's also bigger fish to 555 00:27:27,038 --> 00:27:28,438 Speaker 1: fry in a couple of days where he may need 556 00:27:28,518 --> 00:27:30,838 Speaker 1: him in the game seven. But to have the rest 557 00:27:30,878 --> 00:27:32,918 Speaker 1: of the boys come out of the pan and and 558 00:27:32,998 --> 00:27:36,358 Speaker 1: nail that down, Uh, that's that's pretty special, and I'm 559 00:27:36,358 --> 00:27:39,278 Speaker 1: sure that's something Dusty will always remember. And by the way, 560 00:27:39,478 --> 00:27:42,958 Speaker 1: also at the game last night, yeah, the Boss. The 561 00:27:43,078 --> 00:27:46,798 Speaker 1: Boss was in the house, Spruce Springsteen, the boy on 562 00:27:46,878 --> 00:27:51,478 Speaker 1: the streets of Philadelphia Broad Street in this case, watching 563 00:27:51,838 --> 00:27:55,598 Speaker 1: Christian Javier throw that speedball by make you look like 564 00:27:55,638 --> 00:27:59,718 Speaker 1: a full Glory Days for the Houston Astros pictures. Right. 565 00:27:59,918 --> 00:28:01,718 Speaker 1: Boss has got a new album coming out, by the way, 566 00:28:01,758 --> 00:28:04,878 Speaker 1: November eleven. But I love of the fact that Bruce 567 00:28:04,918 --> 00:28:08,238 Speaker 1: Springs they shows up for a World Series game, takes 568 00:28:08,238 --> 00:28:11,798 Speaker 1: it all in wearing a Secret Service cap and he 569 00:28:11,918 --> 00:28:14,558 Speaker 1: was there for history as well, the Boss. So how 570 00:28:14,558 --> 00:28:17,878 Speaker 1: about that great reference to Glory Days? Absolutely outstanding. You 571 00:28:17,918 --> 00:28:20,078 Speaker 1: know how much I dig the guy. I've been a 572 00:28:20,118 --> 00:28:24,358 Speaker 1: fans it's nineteen seventy two Asbury Park readings from Asbury Park, 573 00:28:24,718 --> 00:28:28,318 Speaker 1: The Wild, The Innocent, etcetera, all the way through. Um yeah, 574 00:28:28,478 --> 00:28:30,518 Speaker 1: I've not met him yet. I've met members of the 575 00:28:30,558 --> 00:28:33,918 Speaker 1: band Max Weinberg and Little Steve. I met these guys 576 00:28:33,958 --> 00:28:35,878 Speaker 1: at different concerts. One of these days I'll get to 577 00:28:35,918 --> 00:28:39,118 Speaker 1: meet the Boss. Because truly a great influence on me 578 00:28:39,158 --> 00:28:41,398 Speaker 1: as a kid growing up. Still does I have told 579 00:28:41,438 --> 00:28:44,638 Speaker 1: you when I get into those uh dark moments on occasion, 580 00:28:44,718 --> 00:28:47,118 Speaker 1: I just get in one of my vehicles and put 581 00:28:47,158 --> 00:28:50,438 Speaker 1: his um something screamed something on the radio their full 582 00:28:50,518 --> 00:28:52,558 Speaker 1: put up full blast and just listen. It takes you 583 00:28:52,638 --> 00:28:55,878 Speaker 1: back to that Thursday nifraternity party at Lotfied College and 584 00:28:56,158 --> 00:28:58,838 Speaker 1: it just gets you in the right in the right mood. Okay, 585 00:28:58,838 --> 00:29:00,758 Speaker 1: with that in mind, John to put you on the spot. 586 00:29:00,758 --> 00:29:03,078 Speaker 1: What you got. You gotta give us something now to 587 00:29:03,118 --> 00:29:06,038 Speaker 1: get us ready for game five. Give us a Springsteen 588 00:29:06,118 --> 00:29:08,718 Speaker 1: tune that maybe is appropriate for Game five of the 589 00:29:08,718 --> 00:29:11,878 Speaker 1: World Series. Huge swing game. Obviously, we're down to the 590 00:29:11,958 --> 00:29:15,438 Speaker 1: best of three series, two out of three. You take 591 00:29:15,478 --> 00:29:19,918 Speaker 1: home the trophy, Astros Phillys tonight, Game five. How are 592 00:29:19,918 --> 00:29:22,278 Speaker 1: we getting ready? What are we putting on the playlist 593 00:29:22,838 --> 00:29:25,878 Speaker 1: from the Bruce Springstein catalog. Well, and I'm not gonna 594 00:29:25,958 --> 00:29:27,798 Speaker 1: keep going back to Kitty on you right there. I 595 00:29:27,838 --> 00:29:30,798 Speaker 1: just don't want to do that. Um. You know how 596 00:29:30,798 --> 00:29:34,878 Speaker 1: about jungle Land. Love Love jungle Land. I love the 597 00:29:34,878 --> 00:29:39,678 Speaker 1: way that starts the beginning, the orchestration builds up. And 598 00:29:40,118 --> 00:29:42,598 Speaker 1: my buddy Willie fort Forte of the b Street Band, 599 00:29:42,598 --> 00:29:46,358 Speaker 1: my buddy has a Springsteen cover band. They do that wonderfully. 600 00:29:46,438 --> 00:29:49,478 Speaker 1: But I'm gonna go with jungle Land. And actually I 601 00:29:49,518 --> 00:29:52,398 Speaker 1: would have to say around uh, Citizens Bank, it's gonna 602 00:29:52,438 --> 00:29:54,718 Speaker 1: kind of be like that tonight. Um, it's gonna be 603 00:29:54,838 --> 00:29:57,798 Speaker 1: kind of a crazy place. Uh. But let's go with 604 00:29:57,878 --> 00:30:01,438 Speaker 1: jungle Land. And and and just the way that song starts, 605 00:30:01,518 --> 00:30:03,598 Speaker 1: the hook in the beginning, how it builds up and stuff. 606 00:30:04,118 --> 00:30:07,398 Speaker 1: One of my all time faves. Very appropriate. Well, we'll 607 00:30:07,398 --> 00:30:10,078 Speaker 1: go back to you after that game Game five. Hope 608 00:30:10,118 --> 00:30:13,558 Speaker 1: you've enjoyed this latest edition of the Book of Joe podcast. 609 00:30:13,758 --> 00:30:17,318 Speaker 1: Check us out after each World Series game. Tom Berducci 610 00:30:17,438 --> 00:30:21,398 Speaker 1: and Joe Madden were out. Muhammad Ali don't count the days, 611 00:30:21,758 --> 00:30:30,798 Speaker 1: Make the Days count. The Book of Joe Podcast is 612 00:30:30,838 --> 00:30:33,758 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio for more podcasts for 613 00:30:33,838 --> 00:30:37,638 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 614 00:30:37,798 --> 00:30:39,598 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.