Speaker 1: This time a former Son's player who you might remember
Speaker 1: as t Rex. More video in just a moment, But
Speaker 1: this is Rex Chapman's mug shun, and we are learning
Speaker 1: a lot more about the charge of charging. I've read
Speaker 1: where you said you struggled with drugs from an early age.
Speaker 1: When did drugs enter your life? So the pills are
Speaker 1: too expensive, and so somebody turned me onto heroin, and
Speaker 1: I would do heroin and then I would smoke math
Speaker 1: to make sure I could level out. Once I took
Speaker 1: an opiate, you know, because I was taking them as prescribed,
Speaker 1: and then I started snorting him. And once I started
Speaker 1: snorting him, I was like, this is this? Is it?
Speaker 1: Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Mike Tyson
Speaker 1: once said everyone has a plan until they get punched
Speaker 1: in the mouth, but sometimes you never see what's about
Speaker 1: to hit you. For me, I never thought the hardest
Speaker 1: part of my career as a professional athlete would be
Speaker 1: fighting off an addiction to painkillers opioids and fighting to
Speaker 1: keep my relationships, my reputation, even my dignity. As a
Speaker 1: disease was attacking all aspects of my life. That fight
Speaker 1: was and is the hardest of my career as a
Speaker 1: professional basketball player, and I never fought anybody but today's guest.
Speaker 1: He knows exactly what it's like to get punched in
Speaker 1: the mouth, and yet his fight and my fight are
Speaker 1: the same, and he knows all too well how much
Speaker 1: more pain can come from a pill than any punch
Speaker 1: ever thrown by a human, and that includes Mike Tyson.
Speaker 1: This his charges. Welcome to the show, my friend, Isaac
Speaker 1: Valley Flag Welcome. Thanks for having me, man, I appreciate it. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. We just kind of got to, you know,
Speaker 1: a little bit of a Twitter relationship, and man, I've
Speaker 1: followed your story on and off throughout the years. My
Speaker 1: son is a big m M A fan, And uh,
Speaker 1: I'm really happy for you and to see where you
Speaker 1: are today. Thanks Ben. Yeah, it's uh, it's a cool
Speaker 1: place to be, especially considering where I was about four
Speaker 1: years ago, you know what I mean? And yeah, you
Speaker 1: do know, Yeah, you do know what I mean? Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's baby steps, man, And I was brushing up
Speaker 1: on some things today and so much of it resonated. Well,
Speaker 1: let's start here. How the hell does somebody decide I
Speaker 1: want to be a professional fighter uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: kinda so I had another body who we're working at
Speaker 1: a bar, and uh, it just kind of seemed like
Speaker 1: it was a fun thing to do. I kind of
Speaker 1: grew up doing getting into fight street fights and stuff
Speaker 1: and uh and some of our longline. Uh, they told
Speaker 1: me I could do it and I wasn't gonna get
Speaker 1: in trouble and uh, I might even get paid at
Speaker 1: some point. So that was you know, that was like
Speaker 1: m M as the early days before it was like
Speaker 1: really as big as it was, the UFC was a thing,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't like a thing like a force like
Speaker 1: it is now, you know. So it was that That's
Speaker 1: kind of how for you. I was early twenties, so
Speaker 1: I gotta got into it late. Um. You know a
Speaker 1: lot of the a lot of the guys these days,
Speaker 1: they start doing stuff because the sports gotten so big,
Speaker 1: they start doing stuff at a at a real young age,
Speaker 1: you know, and it just wasn't the case when I
Speaker 1: was younger. I just kind of dug the whole aspect
Speaker 1: of fighting, and then then I fell in love with
Speaker 1: like the more spiritual side of the fighting game too.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I was wondering about that, you know,
Speaker 1: I've heard heard some fighters talk about how it it
Speaker 1: really is more of an art form than about the
Speaker 1: violence or actual fighting. What do you view it as? So? Uh?
Speaker 1: Number one, I do love the violence of it. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But there's something really uh
Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, peaceful about being in there,
Speaker 1: uh with another human being. And it's just you know,
Speaker 1: as much as there is crowd noise and stuff, it's
Speaker 1: just you and them like essentially locked in together and
Speaker 1: you're really paying attention to the breathing and everything, and
Speaker 1: you're very much in the moment, you know. And so
Speaker 1: there there's like a real beauty to fighting. There really is,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think that, I mean it is. Look,
Speaker 1: it's violent, we're fighting each other. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who find a certain amount
Speaker 1: of like of of peace doing that, you know, And
Speaker 1: I think I'm I'm one of them, and it isn't it.
Speaker 1: You know. I obviously didn't compete like this in a
Speaker 1: sport where you actually, you know, fight. We all talked about, well,
Speaker 1: we went to war last night and we've battled them. No,
Speaker 1: we didn't. Ye basketball the players never fight. Let's get North,
Speaker 1: can we you know, you gotta fight somebody for three
Speaker 1: seconds till they break you up, right right, Let's just
Speaker 1: get that out of the way right now. No. So
Speaker 1: I'm wondering though, But you know, playing that sport, you
Speaker 1: know there no matter how hard you go at one another,
Speaker 1: there's a mutual respect. And I gotta think that that's
Speaker 1: you know some of it too, that piece of being
Speaker 1: in the ring with someone else you know is a
Speaker 1: professional and you guys are gonna I mean, I would think,
Speaker 1: don't you sort of have a kinship even though you're
Speaker 1: trying to kick that person's ass. So I got lucky.
Speaker 1: I got to fight guys who are like kind of
Speaker 1: my heroes, So I mean it was it was kind
Speaker 1: of cool. Uh like Eaves Edwards and taking or Gold me.
Speaker 1: We're uh those are the guys who I really liked
Speaker 1: coming up and I got to fight him, you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: So it was there is that kind of kinship, especially
Speaker 1: when you're doing you're fighting somebody who you look up to,
Speaker 1: you know, right, Well, tell me about the training that
Speaker 1: somebody has to do to compete in m m A
Speaker 1: and not like jumping rope and push ups, like what
Speaker 1: it's like to learn all the fighting styles, how to
Speaker 1: defend things all that. Uh. So the learning part, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the other part of it that's really cool is
Speaker 1: you are learning a craft, you know, uh, and it's intense,
Speaker 1: uh and it's fun. At my age, because I started
Speaker 1: so late, I kind of was behind the curve, and
Speaker 1: I really I pushed myself as hard as I could
Speaker 1: to try to to try to catch out with these
Speaker 1: like young guys like Cub Swanson is a really good
Speaker 1: friend of mine and uh and he started young and
Speaker 1: he would come out here to Albuquerque, and I always
Speaker 1: felt like I had to work harder than him because
Speaker 1: I didn't have the same amount of time and that
Speaker 1: left in the sport or natural ability as him or
Speaker 1: anything like that. So I always pushed myself as hard
Speaker 1: as I could to try to get better at it.
Speaker 1: You know, were you were you an athlete growing up?
Speaker 1: Did you play sports? Did you? Um? Or you don't
Speaker 1: have to play sports to be an athlete, but did
Speaker 1: you have an athletic background growing up? Now? You know?
Speaker 1: So I've never had a dad, so I don't know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, father in the house until like later on. Um,
Speaker 1: and I just kind of had a hippie mom who
Speaker 1: wrote poetry, so I don't even know if I was.
Speaker 1: That's awesome though, Yeah, that's awesome though. But finding it's
Speaker 1: amazing to go through, you know, twenty years of your
Speaker 1: life and then all of a sudden, you know, it had.
Speaker 1: I like the new sports, like in the Olympics every year.
Speaker 1: I enjoy that. I'm so thrilled to see, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a violent sport and I know you can you
Speaker 1: only have a short window of time to do it.
Speaker 1: But I'm really excited for, you know, there to be
Speaker 1: another profession outside of just traditional boxing, which is that's
Speaker 1: what it was when I was growing up. I remember
Speaker 1: in my hometown they had something called um tough Man
Speaker 1: competitions and those were just bare knuckle kind of things
Speaker 1: until you one person got knocked out. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's just amazing to see where the sport and where
Speaker 1: mixed martial arts has gone over the last thirty years.
Speaker 1: I love watching the sport. Grol. I honestly think that
Speaker 1: uh M M A. As much as M M A
Speaker 1: and boxing compete with each other as far as like
Speaker 1: for viewership and stuff, I think they also push each
Speaker 1: other to get better, you know, uh you're seeing people
Speaker 1: pick up stuff from other skill sets and other sports,
Speaker 1: and and you're also seeing boxing now starting to get
Speaker 1: a revival of being a little bit more exciting than
Speaker 1: it was after after Mike Tyson and after the eighties boxers.
Speaker 1: You know, uh, for a while, we weren't treated to
Speaker 1: any of the Hagler Herns stuff. It was just kind
Speaker 1: of boring, you know so, And I think mixed martial
Speaker 1: arts kind of nipping it its its heels really forced
Speaker 1: it into a place where now it's gotten exciting again.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Um, let's talk about the process
Speaker 1: of becoming a pro. What is that? Like? Who do
Speaker 1: you have to beat or impress or better question, how
Speaker 1: do you even get noticed? Because there's so many m
Speaker 1: m A and UFC style gems. How does one go
Speaker 1: from just doing that to trying to make a living
Speaker 1: in the NBA. There's a pretty clear path. If you
Speaker 1: go to college, you go to the NBA. How did
Speaker 1: you decipher all of that? When I started off there
Speaker 1: with you never had an amateur pro kind of deal.
Speaker 1: You just you started fighting. And then I got lucky
Speaker 1: enough to be in in one of the better gyms
Speaker 1: in the world in Albuquerque, and just did a certain
Speaker 1: amount of rounds with with all the really talented A
Speaker 1: level guys, and and then I beat some guys and
Speaker 1: people took notice of me, you know, I got I
Speaker 1: getting your ass kicked at first vice him guys when
Speaker 1: you just didn't know what you're doing yet. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: you know that's kind of when I was coming up,
Speaker 1: I think for because we didn't know any better. You
Speaker 1: earned your lumps in the gym. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you really, you really did. And there was there was
Speaker 1: some real talent in our gym. You know. We had
Speaker 1: Cowboys Roni and Cub and and and a bunch of guys,
Speaker 1: you know. And I would just get in front of
Speaker 1: him because I wanted time in front of the coach
Speaker 1: and I knew that it would make me better talking
Speaker 1: to them and training with them. So that's just what
Speaker 1: I did. And and again I was an older guy,
Speaker 1: so it's not like I had like this. I didn't
Speaker 1: ever have anybody looking out for me like these younger
Speaker 1: talented guys. Did you know. You gotta remember Cowboys six
Speaker 1: six years younger than me, and his career in the
Speaker 1: w C and USC started way like long before mine, did.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was a cool deal and I
Speaker 1: wanted a spot. You know, you have to be a
Speaker 1: really good student though, you know, I don't know how
Speaker 1: you did it growing up and when you were in
Speaker 1: school or everything, but it obviously appeared that there's something
Speaker 1: with this sport that you found intriguing and you were
Speaker 1: able to pick it up, I mean pretty damn quickly.
Speaker 1: And it takes a lot of studying, you know, and
Speaker 1: being engaged as much as it was studying just a
Speaker 1: bunch of hard work. I mean I was always known
Speaker 1: as like I would put an extra time. I would
Speaker 1: put in, you know, more time because I knew that
Speaker 1: I didn't have the advantage of having the talent that
Speaker 1: some of these guys did, and I knew where I was,
Speaker 1: so I just I put in. I worked my ass off,
Speaker 1: you know, fantastic. How do you describe the feeling being
Speaker 1: in the ring when your fights about to start? Are
Speaker 1: you focused on your plan? Are you just trying to
Speaker 1: get quiet in your mind? Or are you ampt and
Speaker 1: ready to ready your role? I get so the minute
Speaker 1: I get in there, I get real quiet. I mean,
Speaker 1: like the up leading up to a fight, I'm super
Speaker 1: nervous and super I mean It's a scary deal. You're
Speaker 1: you're literally about to go fight somebody and possibly get
Speaker 1: knocked out on TV or whatever they're you know whatever,
Speaker 1: you're looking at your home crowd or whatever. But then
Speaker 1: once you get in there, like I said, everything gets
Speaker 1: kind of quiet again, you know, I mean really like
Speaker 1: it's just you and that other guy at that point,
Speaker 1: and you hear your your hone in on your coaches,
Speaker 1: and it's just really, uh, I'm just you're there to
Speaker 1: do your thing kind of and it's like, what what
Speaker 1: you worked hard for? You know? Yeah? Um so, okay,
Speaker 1: you're part of the UFC and you're in the mix.
Speaker 1: Tell me what it's like to be a part of,
Speaker 1: you know, one of these big cards and the whole process.
Speaker 1: Who's helping you figure out who to fight and you
Speaker 1: know what to do when fights fall apart. Uh So
Speaker 1: I had good managers and good coaching luckily along the way.
Speaker 1: And you know, uh, we'll get when we get into
Speaker 1: the addiction stuff, we'll get in. My career didn't last
Speaker 1: very long in the UFC. I found pain pills law
Speaker 1: like almost immediately, you know, and you can see uh,
Speaker 1: kind of my from my first fight to my second
Speaker 1: fight even that like the downfall, like the starting of
Speaker 1: the of the addiction, you know, because I had done
Speaker 1: some you know, I fought for another organization that the
Speaker 1: UFC owned, called Strike Force, and I beat a really
Speaker 1: bigger name at the time. And then, uh, and then
Speaker 1: I had my first fight in the UFC against a
Speaker 1: guy named Eves Edwards. And then right after that, I
Speaker 1: hurt my back and that was kind of like the
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of messed around the stuff, but
Speaker 1: that was like it, you know, I mean, it was
Speaker 1: just you know, that part of it was became more
Speaker 1: exciting than the than the fight itself. I get it.
Speaker 1: I get it. You know, I've said I've read where
Speaker 1: you said you struggled with drugs from an early age.
Speaker 1: When did drugs enter your life? When I was like,
Speaker 1: I mean, drinking twelve thirteen, Drinking was always part of
Speaker 1: my family. So it was like we were the we
Speaker 1: were the family of like taking SIPs at the family reunions,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. The parents didn't mind or
Speaker 1: adults didn't mind. Yeah, get it. Yeah, it was just
Speaker 1: a I mean, I think it was just different than
Speaker 1: you know, it was just what you did in family stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, Uh, so there was always that, but like
Speaker 1: on my own, like twelve or thirteen, really young, Like
Speaker 1: like I look at my daughter who's fifteen. Now I'm thinking, man,
Speaker 1: you are not even close to ready to any any drinks.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh the hell, I know. I know.
Speaker 1: Isaac is a great example of how things can go
Speaker 1: downhill quickly, from drinking as a youngster at family functions
Speaker 1: to using at parties to letting it all affect his
Speaker 1: livelihood as an m M A fighter. I for one,
Speaker 1: know the dangers of opioids for my playing career and thereafter.
Speaker 1: Although basketball can be brutal to the body, there is
Speaker 1: no comparison to what an m M A fighter is
Speaker 1: put through in the ring and in the ranks. Isaac
Speaker 1: was ascending, but on the inside, his greatest battle was
Speaker 1: about to begin. So at what point did it go
Speaker 1: from alcohol to something else? So I have always struggled
Speaker 1: and kind of went in and out of of some
Speaker 1: sort of a program and like white knuckled stuff and
Speaker 1: and things like that. Uh, but you know, and I've
Speaker 1: always dabbled in drugs, but like the really hard opiate
Speaker 1: stuff wasn't until this last, this last little stint that
Speaker 1: I had, you know, like in in twenty twelve, I started,
Speaker 1: were you someone who partied Isaac or someone who used uh,
Speaker 1: you know to kind of sort of make things go
Speaker 1: away or to level out? I started by being a
Speaker 1: party or I mean, like I always I always thought
Speaker 1: that that's how you that's how you unwound. And I
Speaker 1: saw people who could party, just party, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. You know, I'm sure just like you see
Speaker 1: people celebrate after a game, right, and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can do that, and I just you know, so
Speaker 1: that's how it started. But then towards the end of it,
Speaker 1: it was just me getting high in my garage by myself,
Speaker 1: you know, so and and that was just there's nothing
Speaker 1: there except for masking something some other trauma that I'm
Speaker 1: trying to deal with, you know. Towards the end, there
Speaker 1: is no more party left, you know. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just you know, remember getting yeah, I remember getting in.
Speaker 1: You know, at first, everybody says it's you know, at first,
Speaker 1: drugs are fun, and then it's fun with problems, and
Speaker 1: then it's just problems after a while. Like let's talk
Speaker 1: about pain meds in gyms and locker rooms. Uh no,
Speaker 1: I I'm not trying to get you to get anybody
Speaker 1: in trouble. But what what was that like in the
Speaker 1: UFC and m M A world. So everybody again, you know,
Speaker 1: like you're dealing with a bunch of alpha males, uh
Speaker 1: or alpha male mentality kind of stuff that it's like
Speaker 1: guys if they were using and I know a few
Speaker 1: guys who who were because we talked about it now
Speaker 1: and they've had they've addressed some issues. But you hid
Speaker 1: that stuff because you didn't want anybody knowing that you
Speaker 1: had a weakness of some sort, you know. Uh. So
Speaker 1: you know I found my guy and uh and but
Speaker 1: it's not like this is a guy your doctor was
Speaker 1: outside the gym. Yeah, outside the gym, And so I
Speaker 1: found a guy that wasn't going to relay stuff back
Speaker 1: to anybody. You know, I think, you know, there was
Speaker 1: a couple of guys. There's a few guys in the
Speaker 1: gym who knew I was doing stuff by the time
Speaker 1: it was too late. But I mean I tried to
Speaker 1: keep it hitting the best that I could. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't you know, I didn't think I knew how
Speaker 1: dangerous I because I considered myself such a strong guy. Um,
Speaker 1: I didn't think that I was going to have the
Speaker 1: same issues with with opiates that everybody else did, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And I'm sure sure you were
Speaker 1: the same way, right. I mean, you're you're a professional athlete.
Speaker 1: You've you've gotten yourself whatever is right. You've gotten yourself
Speaker 1: this far. So I'm gonna be able to handle this
Speaker 1: and I'll just stop after whatever. You know, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: feel invincible, like you're one of one. You know, you
Speaker 1: just can do anything right. Yeah, and you know it's yeah,
Speaker 1: you really do. And it's crazy how much. And I
Speaker 1: think you're seeing a lot of guy, especially fighters now,
Speaker 1: you're seeing a lot of guys who are who are
Speaker 1: starting to get affected by that um mental health wise
Speaker 1: and then addiction to wise and everything. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a big deal. You're taking a bunch of
Speaker 1: kids who didn't know anything, letting us get hit or
Speaker 1: we we put ourselves in there, but we all get
Speaker 1: hit in the head a bunch, and then you put
Speaker 1: us in front of a camera and things are bound
Speaker 1: to to get a little bit weird, you know, no,
Speaker 1: no question about it. You know I've said this before
Speaker 1: on the show. Um, but I remember when I took OxyContin.
Speaker 1: You know, my brain immediately had a reaction that was like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, I really like this. This is my this
Speaker 1: is my jam. Uh. You know, I want to feel
Speaker 1: this way all the time. That's immediately what I felt,
Speaker 1: which we know not everyone feels like that. You had
Speaker 1: something similar happened though, right, Oh yeah, that was like
Speaker 1: once I took an opiate, uh, you know, because I
Speaker 1: was taking them as prescribed and then I started snorting him.
Speaker 1: And once I started snorting him, I was like, this
Speaker 1: is this is it? Like, Wow, I never snorted him.
Speaker 1: I I I chewed them. I chewed them to try
Speaker 1: to get in. I've heard of the you know, I
Speaker 1: got into rehab and heard of the snorting. But man,
Speaker 1: that's gotta be Oh my goodness. Look man, like we
Speaker 1: wouldn't we wouldn't be having this conversation if it wasn't
Speaker 1: one of the greatest feelings in the world, you know what.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, and it's uh, it's one of those
Speaker 1: things that just eventually kicked the ship out of me.
Speaker 1: But I mean like I loved it, man, I really
Speaker 1: until I did, and I loved it, you know same,
Speaker 1: you know, I for me, I the the initial I
Speaker 1: was always kind of a little, uh, socially awkward around
Speaker 1: people I didn't know, and you know, being in sports,
Speaker 1: people would come up all the time and you know,
Speaker 1: kind of say hi and introduced themselves, and I'd always
Speaker 1: felt really just awkward about it. The second that I
Speaker 1: took the OxyContin, it was like my guard went down.
Speaker 1: I felt more at ease in my own mind. I
Speaker 1: felt more. I felt funnier and smarter, and you know, everything, um,
Speaker 1: and before you know it, it's you know, it's not
Speaker 1: that way, and you're chasing one pill and the next pill.
Speaker 1: You know, you get to the point it's you're not
Speaker 1: deciding when to take it anymore. It's telling you when
Speaker 1: you need it. It's telling you when it's time, like
Speaker 1: either physically or you or you know, I mean like
Speaker 1: the same thing that most of us who are addicted
Speaker 1: really kind of have. Is it like we got something
Speaker 1: different in our brain that's telling us when it's time.
Speaker 1: And it's not just the physical stuff, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like really like something clicks in my head that it's like, man,
Speaker 1: it's time to to get high. Still, you know, so
Speaker 1: at one point, you know, I'm sure it was they
Speaker 1: were prescribed to you for legitimate, you know pain, like
Speaker 1: you said, back pain. Um, how long and because there's
Speaker 1: something that goes on with our minds? How long did
Speaker 1: you take opioids thinking and truly believing I am only
Speaker 1: taking this for my physical pain until you realize you
Speaker 1: were you know, you're actually just taking it because you're
Speaker 1: addicted and you like the way it makes you feel.
Speaker 1: I think there was a certain amount of that throughout
Speaker 1: the whole time, Like I had to. I had to,
Speaker 1: you know, like my addict brain. Even so even when
Speaker 1: I started, so I went from pills to heroin, and uh,
Speaker 1: even when I started using the heroin, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I really hurt, you know. I mean, like there's a
Speaker 1: real you know, and and that's bullsh I mean it
Speaker 1: really is bullshit. Like I deal with my pain now
Speaker 1: and I'm fine, you know. And uh, and I know
Speaker 1: guys who have my friend Cub, I'll keep using him.
Speaker 1: He had his whole face broken and he doesn't take opiates, right,
Speaker 1: And but so there was this lie in the back
Speaker 1: of my head the whole time that was like, man,
Speaker 1: you you really need this, you know. I Mean, there's
Speaker 1: that denial thing that you need in order to keep
Speaker 1: everything kind of running. You know, well, you know on
Speaker 1: charges we talk about you know, the ugly part, and
Speaker 1: we'll get back into the good part. But let's get
Speaker 1: into it. You're so you're out of the UFC and
Speaker 1: you're struggling with drugs. Um, how do you up in
Speaker 1: a car with guns and drugs and being charged with robbery? Unlucky? Yeah, attempted.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm just unlucky. You know. It's so, it
Speaker 1: really was. I mean it was like I've always so
Speaker 1: I've always done stuff like I shot with some of
Speaker 1: the police officers over here. Uh, and I've been part
Speaker 1: of like a good community. So all this stuff that
Speaker 1: I was doing, I mean I I even when I
Speaker 1: was getting high, I was still shooting with like some
Speaker 1: people that I knew who were federal agents and stuff.
Speaker 1: So I always pictured myself as a pretty good guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, law abiding citizen who just like to tinker
Speaker 1: with guns. And you know, I knew I was doing
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that to feed my addiction as
Speaker 1: far as stealing goes. Um that I still was justifying
Speaker 1: for whatever reason because it was known. I know it's
Speaker 1: hard to talk about, and but I feel your pain,
Speaker 1: right now because people ask me all the time, they
Speaker 1: were like, but you you stole some stuff, and and
Speaker 1: and it's it's painful, right, it's painful to reconcile that
Speaker 1: you we were doing this right. Well, it's it's that
Speaker 1: whole thing of like, I mean, we are at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, we're what somebody would consider a junkie.
Speaker 1: But it's like, sitting here talking to you, it's hard
Speaker 1: to imagine either one of us being you know, you
Speaker 1: have this idea in your head of what a junkie
Speaker 1: looks like, you know what I mean, And it's not
Speaker 1: it's not somebody who performed at a high level in
Speaker 1: basketball or fighting. A junkie is somebody who you see panhandling,
Speaker 1: you know, in the street. And I was actually there,
Speaker 1: you know, not literally, but pretty close to it there
Speaker 1: for a while. And so was I. The thing that
Speaker 1: saved my asses that I have a I have a
Speaker 1: wife God who's like a godsend, who really like, if
Speaker 1: it wasn't for her, I'd be homeless, you know, and
Speaker 1: and who I lied too good enough to let me
Speaker 1: stay in the house. I mean, that's that's my big thing,
Speaker 1: is I did a lot of stuff to my addiction.
Speaker 1: That's not great and I'm not proud of it. But
Speaker 1: the things that I'm really not proud of is the
Speaker 1: way that I treated my family and friends. You know,
Speaker 1: I burned a lot of bridges with people who I
Speaker 1: love greatly, uh, trying to either being super toxic or
Speaker 1: like trying to feed the addiction and needing to lie
Speaker 1: about it to everybody. You know. So like this, I
Speaker 1: can talk about the I got good war stories about
Speaker 1: stealing and that kind of I'll laugh about that, and
Speaker 1: it's not a funny thing, but I can laugh about that.
Speaker 1: The thing that really hurts it is like the stuff
Speaker 1: that I did to my family and friends and in
Speaker 1: the name of in the name of like continuing to run.
Speaker 1: You know, I said, so one of the guns had
Speaker 1: a silencer. What was going on there? So I was
Speaker 1: building silencers and and again so that this was the
Speaker 1: like the mania of the drugs. I'm like, that's just
Speaker 1: normal to me. Right, I'm sitting my you know, your
Speaker 1: your brain really starts to tell you this ship is
Speaker 1: that everything that you're doing is normal. It was the
Speaker 1: thing about oxyconton for me, and I think that that
Speaker 1: was the other thing about it was that I realized
Speaker 1: it was like every good thought I had kind of
Speaker 1: hung around and all that every bad thought was real fleeting.
Speaker 1: And it almost made me think I've said it before.
Speaker 1: It was almost like it was the it'll be all
Speaker 1: right drug, because that's what it reminds. It just tells
Speaker 1: you it'll be all right, Okay, Yeah, those bills came,
Speaker 1: it'll be all right and right, yeah, and I'll deal
Speaker 1: with that later, you know. And and and that only
Speaker 1: goes so far before you before you end up in
Speaker 1: some serious ship, you know. So your thing was, didn't
Speaker 1: you get caught stealing like iPods or something at an
Speaker 1: Apple store? Which which to me again, So my thing
Speaker 1: I got caught stealing. Uh, I was stealing copper and
Speaker 1: stuff from from a few places, you know, right, from
Speaker 1: building sites and stuff. Yeah, from from stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And and so I'm sitting here looking at something like, man,
Speaker 1: that's like I watched people running out of Apple and
Speaker 1: people steal copper all the time. I'm like, those guys
Speaker 1: are junkies. I'm like, oh wait, fucking that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, going from a blossoming m M A career
Speaker 1: to being arrested for stealing copper from construction sites is
Speaker 1: a severe fall from grace. To make matters worse. For Isaac,
Speaker 1: opioids weren't the only drug of choice that had entered
Speaker 1: his world. Sometimes when charges hit, they come at the
Speaker 1: right time to save a life. What was your lowest point, Isaac?
Speaker 1: And whatever happened with those charges? So the charge is luckily, Uh,
Speaker 1: I got a pre prosecution deferral. Uh, and I went
Speaker 1: to treatment and I had a great lawyer obviously, and
Speaker 1: uh and those charges, I did a good amount of
Speaker 1: community service and stuff, and they got to smith because
Speaker 1: I was looking at some serious time, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: And you know, I wish that I could say that
Speaker 1: was even my lowest point, but you know, I kept
Speaker 1: I got I went to jail and got out, and
Speaker 1: I went to treatment once and uh, then I kept
Speaker 1: getting high. Uh. And I think the lowest heroin at
Speaker 1: this point, because you really, the pills are too expensive
Speaker 1: at a certain point, right, Yeah, So so the pills
Speaker 1: are too expensive, and so somebody turned me onto heroin
Speaker 1: and I would do heroin and then I would smoke
Speaker 1: meth to make sure I could level out. So Matt,
Speaker 1: see that's a whole other thing. I'm I'm sorry to
Speaker 1: begin with, because you know, sitting in rehab um a
Speaker 1: lot of people that go down that road, and heroin
Speaker 1: as well. But once people go down the meth road,
Speaker 1: you know, it's very hard to recover. And man, I'm
Speaker 1: really proud of what you're doing. Well, so both of us.
Speaker 1: I mean, like you know this, our chances as as
Speaker 1: recovering opiate addicts are not good, you know. Uh, and
Speaker 1: you throw a meth on top of that, and it's
Speaker 1: even worse. But it really is the kind of thing
Speaker 1: that like, uh uh, as long as I'm diligent about
Speaker 1: some stuff. You know, I'm in a recovery program, and
Speaker 1: as long as I'm diligent about the stuff that I do, uh,
Speaker 1: then I stay good, right, And so it really you know,
Speaker 1: I know our chances aren't good, and I knows a
Speaker 1: meth and heroin addict they're not good, So I get
Speaker 1: I stay extra vigilant about that, you know, like I do.
Speaker 1: I'm observing. I have yeah, and I have people that
Speaker 1: I work with, and I talk to people on a
Speaker 1: daily basis and and all the stuff that we're told
Speaker 1: to do, you know. So you know, I'm curious. I
Speaker 1: know what opioids feel like. I don't know what heroin
Speaker 1: feels like. I can only imagine because I know what
Speaker 1: oxy feels like. Um, what does meth do to your brain?
Speaker 1: You said you were doing the heroin and then you
Speaker 1: do the the meth later. Is it just a different rent?
Speaker 1: Is meth more of a stimulant? I guess it is.
Speaker 1: It's a stimulant. But I mean, really, so I had
Speaker 1: this whole life that I had to keep lying about
Speaker 1: so that I could keep a family and so that
Speaker 1: I could keep appearances up, so I couldn't go too
Speaker 1: far down and I couldn't go too far up. So
Speaker 1: I was just using those to kind of to not
Speaker 1: feel any level out, not feel anything, you know. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I don't realize until I look back at stuff,
Speaker 1: until I look back at the way I have interacted
Speaker 1: with people, I don't realize how crazy my brain was
Speaker 1: with the drugs, you know what I mean? Like I
Speaker 1: I I look at the thoughts that I have, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, this is like, I'm like, how the
Speaker 1: fund did I even? How did you anybody even buy that?
Speaker 1: I wasn't like just losing my fucking mind. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm with you because I drove around in in Phoenix
Speaker 1: for years without a driver's license, you know, and I
Speaker 1: was pulled over all the time. I would get um,
Speaker 1: you know, I would get arrested here and there and
Speaker 1: for not having a license and just idiotic, idiotic thinking,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, stuff that seemed normal, right, Yeah, what
Speaker 1: what was your low point? You've been clean now for
Speaker 1: a couple of years, right, yeah, for it'll be four
Speaker 1: in February, so let's go. Yeah, thank you. It's uh,
Speaker 1: but what caused that? What was that point for you
Speaker 1: that you just went Okay, I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't even know. It was just it was I mean,
Speaker 1: it was kind of looking at the shame in my
Speaker 1: wife's eyes, you know. Uh, and I man, I wish
Speaker 1: I had a really cool story about it, but I
Speaker 1: was just beat down, man. And it was like I
Speaker 1: was just beat to the point where I didn't I
Speaker 1: didn't have any answers. I knew I couldn't keep getting high,
Speaker 1: and I was like, man, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: can stop getting high, but I knew I couldn't, like
Speaker 1: you know, and so I just I was completely just
Speaker 1: defeated and there was really nothing I remember, just broken
Speaker 1: in it, you know, he really, I mean, and you
Speaker 1: know this, there's this demoralization. The arrests are bad, everything
Speaker 1: like that house is bad. But like, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: we have that moment of clarity that we're just like, man,
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't do this anymore. And and it
Speaker 1: was that man like I remember my my wife. I
Speaker 1: had to explain to her what keeping me well for
Speaker 1: the weekend until I got into treatment was. And my
Speaker 1: wife is a straight laced, straight straight lace. She works
Speaker 1: for the d O D has a clearance kind of
Speaker 1: you know, we we almost mess that up, but that's
Speaker 1: who she is. And uh, having to explain to her
Speaker 1: what keeping me well till I could get into treatment
Speaker 1: look like. And then having to drop me off on
Speaker 1: the edge of what we call the war zone here
Speaker 1: so I could go pick up dope, you know, and
Speaker 1: borrowing money from her at the end so I could
Speaker 1: go get high until until I could get into treatment,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's that's what it was. It wasn't
Speaker 1: any it wasn't any one thing, because I can sit
Speaker 1: in a jail cell. I know how to do that,
Speaker 1: you know, I know how to hustle. It was really
Speaker 1: just the feeling of just absolutely and utter disgusted with
Speaker 1: myself with what I had become. Kind of you know, same,
Speaker 1: very much the same. I remember also, um, you know,
Speaker 1: getting into treatment and of course the detox just being awful.
Speaker 1: But I remember the first day I got in there.
Speaker 1: This was seven years ago, and I got in there
Speaker 1: and you know, I had not kept my drug problems
Speaker 1: a mystery to my friends. Everyone knew, you know, that
Speaker 1: I had my issues. It hadn't been public though, and
Speaker 1: at this point it had been public. You know, I
Speaker 1: was arrested and now I'm going into treatment within a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. And I remember getting into and this
Speaker 1: is before detox, but I remember getting into my room
Speaker 1: there and you know, there's no TV, there's no nothing.
Speaker 1: It's like a little dorm room. And I just remember
Speaker 1: this moment of sitting on the bed. Nobody else was
Speaker 1: in the room, and I just went and I exhaled,
Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, after years of this, I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm in the right spot. I don't everybody
Speaker 1: knows that. You know, I've got issues and now I
Speaker 1: gotta try to dig out of it. But there was
Speaker 1: that moment for me. Was there one for you? Kind
Speaker 1: of like that, Yeah, I mean there was honestly, so
Speaker 1: that moment happened. That moment happened when I went to jail,
Speaker 1: when I got arrested, because I was like, cool, I
Speaker 1: can stop running, you know. Uh, and like I can
Speaker 1: quit line to my wife and everybody else about what's
Speaker 1: going on. I knew things, not like I was happy
Speaker 1: about it, but the same thing. It was just the
Speaker 1: kind of the the okay, we're we're kind of a
Speaker 1: relief relief of like I can stop now out and
Speaker 1: I didn't, but you know, I get it. I get it.
Speaker 1: So how how does life start turning around for you though?
Speaker 1: Once you got into treatment um to where you are now?
Speaker 1: How did how did it start turning around? I made
Speaker 1: a promise to myself that I was gonna do whatever
Speaker 1: anybody asked me that had to do with recovery, you know.
Speaker 1: And I and again, like I, I approached it like
Speaker 1: I did my fighting. I was going to be very
Speaker 1: vigilant about and being regimented if you asked me to
Speaker 1: do something, I did it, you know, and uh. And
Speaker 1: there was times when I hated it, but I remember
Speaker 1: what I told myself that I was gonna you know,
Speaker 1: and that really that has served me even to this
Speaker 1: day of like, I know, as long as I keep
Speaker 1: doing the next right thing, uh, that whatever, this higher
Speaker 1: power thing is going to keep taking care of me,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And that really is like
Speaker 1: every time I get stressed out or frustrated, I remember
Speaker 1: what I had told myself and what I've told other
Speaker 1: people I work with, and that just keep doing the
Speaker 1: next right thing and that we're gonna stay vigilant about
Speaker 1: this off And every time that I focused on my recovery,
Speaker 1: life has just gotten better. You know, it hasn't. It
Speaker 1: hasn't been exactly who I wanted, right, Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: Like I tried fighting for a while afterwards, and I
Speaker 1: was like, this is gonna be my big comeback into fighting,
Speaker 1: and that didn't work out, so I was like ship.
Speaker 1: But being able to do that, yeah, being able to
Speaker 1: take that, you know, because hey man, we can say
Speaker 1: what we want. When your career is over and you've
Speaker 1: spent years doing that, you're gonna mourn that. You're gonna
Speaker 1: mourn that being over and being able to do that
Speaker 1: and not dip back into drugs. That's big time, man,
Speaker 1: So well done it is. But I'm of the mind
Speaker 1: to set of we guys like you and me, based
Speaker 1: on the amount of like wreckage and pain that we
Speaker 1: have in our life, we have no good excuse to
Speaker 1: get high anymore, you know. Uh so so yeah you
Speaker 1: mourn it, but like there's a lot of people who
Speaker 1: mourn real death without getting high. Uh. And that's the
Speaker 1: whole design for living thing that we've kind of committed to. Um,
Speaker 1: that's really kind of what I've committed to. And and
Speaker 1: it's like realizing that we don't have we don't have
Speaker 1: that excuse. It's not there's no good reason for us
Speaker 1: to do any of that anymore, you know what I mean? Absolutely.
Speaker 1: You know you've talked about how hard it is to
Speaker 1: struggle with addiction, but how much harder uh we make
Speaker 1: it as a society for people with this disease. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, what can we do better? Education? Always education?
Speaker 1: You know that. Uh. I have a good friend who
Speaker 1: runs a treatment center and runs a sober living place.
Speaker 1: He's a clinical he's a head clinician there. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the more that we educate people about the
Speaker 1: stigma around it, you know, I mean, it's still like
Speaker 1: mental health and addiction are still like really frowned upon.
Speaker 1: People still think of this as as a weakness that
Speaker 1: you and I have, And I'm like, man, I'm a
Speaker 1: pretty strong fucking you know. I'll take a beating and
Speaker 1: I'll keep going. But when it comes to this one thing,
Speaker 1: whether it's for me several things by anxiety, my depression,
Speaker 1: my addiction, you know, I got no answers for it.
Speaker 1: And that to me, is not a weakness. That's just like,
Speaker 1: that's something that there's an illness in my in my head,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean. And and I think it's good
Speaker 1: that people are starting to know more and more about
Speaker 1: the disease of addiction. Yeah, but man, you can just
Speaker 1: put that beautifully, I mean, and it's emotional growth to
Speaker 1: know that, hey, look this is why we were doing
Speaker 1: it all these years, and that that's a good feeling. Right.
Speaker 1: For years, I didn't I didn't know why I was
Speaker 1: doing things and what was wrong with me. And you know,
Speaker 1: finally I went well, a lot of people struggle with
Speaker 1: mental illness, and you know, I'm one of those people.
Speaker 1: So once I could put my arms around it, you know,
Speaker 1: it felt much better. It does, especially you know, I've
Speaker 1: always had these anxiety and depression issues, but I've never
Speaker 1: I've never really, it's just been a thing. But now
Speaker 1: like I can recognize it and deal with it appropriately,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, ship, that's how you do that,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I don't have to get high over
Speaker 1: that to like mask whatever whatever it is. It's whatever
Speaker 1: bothering you. I know, I know, it's so crazy. It's
Speaker 1: an absolute mind fuck, it really is. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: when when you look at all your opponents in the ring,
Speaker 1: how does the fight against addiction stand up? So again,
Speaker 1: it's almost like I'm never gonna if I'm fighting somebody,
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna stop fighting until I'm until I am
Speaker 1: separated from consciousness or or asleep from getting choked. The
Speaker 1: biggest thing with this was like, you know, it's a corny,
Speaker 1: hokey thing that you hear in like some of the programs,
Speaker 1: but like I really surrendered and then I quit fighting
Speaker 1: and that was that was that made it easy. So
Speaker 1: is it a fight? Uh, it's not a fight. Like
Speaker 1: I don't I don't wake up anymore going funk. I
Speaker 1: want to get high, but I'm not going to do
Speaker 1: it today. You know, I wake up every morning and
Speaker 1: I really do kind of count my blessings and see
Speaker 1: why I'm grateful for and the work that I have
Speaker 1: to do for to stay sober is like minuscule compared
Speaker 1: to what I had to do to get high and
Speaker 1: to maintain that lifestyle. So I don't think it's a fight.
Speaker 1: I really I don't. I don't view it as a fight.
Speaker 1: You know, that's great, that's great. What does a day
Speaker 1: in your life look like these days? In Albert? Kirt?
Speaker 1: I'm super boring, man. I get up and do roofing
Speaker 1: and then uh come home and see the family, hit
Speaker 1: a meeting. You know, good. You know the meetings that
Speaker 1: that's interesting too. You know, I did a ton of meetings,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, getting clean and sober is different
Speaker 1: for everybody. Uh. The one thing that I learned most
Speaker 1: about those meetings though, was it's camaraderie and it's being
Speaker 1: able to be with other people who you know, nobody's
Speaker 1: putting on any airs. Everyone's a little bit fucked up
Speaker 1: in here, and you know you can kind to share
Speaker 1: in that and and other people's stories, and you know, um,
Speaker 1: I think what you ever, you know, you said some
Speaker 1: of its corny whatever, but it's seems important. It is important,
Speaker 1: and you know a lot of that they're they're starting
Speaker 1: to look at stuff is like you know, isolation is
Speaker 1: being a really big deal for for addicts, you know.
Speaker 1: And I'm a big fan of like, whatever way you
Speaker 1: find your recovery is great for me, as long as
Speaker 1: it's as long as it's working. I found it a
Speaker 1: particular way, and I stick with that, you know. Uh.
Speaker 1: And my big thing is not isolating myself for people,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean this, the disease kind of wants
Speaker 1: us dead and wants us alone for that to happen.
Speaker 1: And they're starting to go more and more. They're starting
Speaker 1: to see how just like you said, that camaraderie stuff
Speaker 1: is really plays into, uh, plays into the real recovery,
Speaker 1: you know. So now I'm gonna give you my uh
Speaker 1: my credentials, my stats for my playing days. I was
Speaker 1: about six four one. I have one ninety six six
Speaker 1: or seven wingspan. Uh. I come walking into the gym,
Speaker 1: How are you training me? And do I have any
Speaker 1: sort of shot? Uh? You're gonna we're gonna use your
Speaker 1: lengths obviously, okay. Yeah, And we're gonna keep you away
Speaker 1: from people and and make sure you and I are
Speaker 1: different fighters. I'm a short, little fire plug and I
Speaker 1: like to get hit, but I don't want you. I
Speaker 1: do not want you getting hit. So we're gonna learn
Speaker 1: how to use your jab and your and your kicks
Speaker 1: and stuff and keep you a distance till you can
Speaker 1: hurt somebody. But man, I did a few, We did
Speaker 1: a few boxing sort of workouts, uh or I've done
Speaker 1: something in my life. And we did some with certain teams.
Speaker 1: I mean one thing we did about basketball drill. We
Speaker 1: just ran around the court with our arms up like
Speaker 1: this for three minutes, thinking, you know, that's not too bad.
Speaker 1: You get to about a minute and you and you
Speaker 1: guys gotta be up like this all the time. People
Speaker 1: don't understand the endurance and the strength and the uh,
Speaker 1: the mental fortitude. It's a lot. Man. It's like like
Speaker 1: getting to any I consider the UFC a high level.
Speaker 1: I never got to the heights of the UFC that
Speaker 1: I think I should have. But like, once you're there,
Speaker 1: like you you've developed a work ethic and a and
Speaker 1: a mental fortitude that that it's crazy, man. And like
Speaker 1: and for any any sport, like at a pro level,
Speaker 1: even if you're riding a bench, you're gad, dude, you
Speaker 1: know what question about it? Yeah, you put your time
Speaker 1: in a lot of practice, a lot of muscle memory,
Speaker 1: and you can't fake that stuff, you know, So that's
Speaker 1: always what's abusing to me. Sorry, I'm gonna mention your
Speaker 1: your social media stuff here a little bit because I
Speaker 1: love it than man. Yeah, well I I do it.
Speaker 1: It's cool to see you use your platform the way
Speaker 1: you do. Um. You know, I'm a fairly left leaning
Speaker 1: guy as you are, and it's it's good to see
Speaker 1: guys like you and what's his face David Bautista and
Speaker 1: guys like that really kind of uh putting it out there.
Speaker 1: And I mean, you guys do have you? Guys are
Speaker 1: like he has a whole fan base. It probably believes
Speaker 1: that that Trump still won, right, but he's not afraid
Speaker 1: to at this point. He does it, but he's not
Speaker 1: afraid to lose that popularity because he knows what it,
Speaker 1: what it means for real, you knows to be to
Speaker 1: be real and honest. Yeah. I appreciate that too, And
Speaker 1: it's cool to see guys like you who have like
Speaker 1: who really have that using it for what it what
Speaker 1: it should be used for. Man, you know, I wish
Speaker 1: I had the balls that you have. Most of the time. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: let's leave on this the fight for sobriety and the
Speaker 1: journey you've had and been on. What do you want
Speaker 1: to tell others out there who are struggling, Like my man,
Speaker 1: don't be afraid to open up about it. If you're struggling,
Speaker 1: talk to somebody, and like, I don't give that lip service.
Speaker 1: There's other guys on on Twitter who I talk to,
Speaker 1: who I know personally, I answer messages when somebody says
Speaker 1: they're fucking hurting. I mean, like I really I don't
Speaker 1: give that lip service because it is like there needs
Speaker 1: to be somebody to listen, and there needs to be
Speaker 1: somebody to listen when somebody really needs to reach out.
Speaker 1: So reach out and fucking find some and be if
Speaker 1: you can be of service and be the person to listen,
Speaker 1: do that, you know, I mean, you never know what
Speaker 1: you're gonna affect, so and you never know what another
Speaker 1: person is going through, and sometimes it just takes an ear,
Speaker 1: you know, to help help them get through their day. Right,
Speaker 1: there's a lot, like I said, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: strong people who have run their fucking cars in the
Speaker 1: walls because they've never just opened up, you know, And
Speaker 1: that's that's the that's the truth, Isaac Man. I can't
Speaker 1: thank you enough for coming on the show. Um. I
Speaker 1: think the world of you and much continued success. My
Speaker 1: door is always open to your brother. Thank you, man, say,
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. This was this is a good time
Speaker 1: and it's nice to actually finally talk to you and
Speaker 1: not just see a block or charge you know here,
Speaker 1: all right, man, thank you so much. All right, thanks man,
Speaker 1: talk to you soon. Seven Runniens with the charges ship Lee, Sender,
Speaker 1: tenors and ballers and charges the Celebrity gang forms and charges.
Speaker 1: We came along way from living lawless charges selling a
Speaker 1: Runniens with the charges shot Lee, Sender, tenors and ball
Speaker 1: ass and charges Shi the Celebrity Gang forms charge. We
Speaker 1: came along way from living lawless charge charge