WEBVTT - Vol. 19: Ike Vallie-Flagg 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.800 This time a former Son's player who you might remember 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.440 as t Rex. More video in just a moment, But 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.080 this is Rex Chapman's mug shun, and we are learning 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:14.480 a lot more about the charge of charging. I've read 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.520 where you said you struggled with drugs from an early age. 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.560 When did drugs enter your life? So the pills are 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.080 too expensive, and so somebody turned me onto heroin, and 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:25.840 I would do heroin and then I would smoke math 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.400 to make sure I could level out. Once I took 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.640 an opiate, you know, because I was taking them as prescribed, 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.200 and then I started snorting him. And once I started 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:36.879 snorting him, I was like, this is this? Is it? 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:45.519 Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Mike Tyson 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.800 once said everyone has a plan until they get punched 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.520 in the mouth, but sometimes you never see what's about 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.560 to hit you. For me, I never thought the hardest 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.920 part of my career as a professional athlete would be 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:00.720 fighting off an addiction to painkillers opioids and fighting to 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:04.880 keep my relationships, my reputation, even my dignity. As a 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:09.200 disease was attacking all aspects of my life. That fight 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:11.720 was and is the hardest of my career as a 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:16.560 professional basketball player, and I never fought anybody but today's guest. 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.080 He knows exactly what it's like to get punched in 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.920 the mouth, and yet his fight and my fight are 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.679 the same, and he knows all too well how much 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.880 more pain can come from a pill than any punch 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.800 ever thrown by a human, and that includes Mike Tyson. 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:42.280 This his charges. Welcome to the show, my friend, Isaac 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.200 Valley Flag Welcome. Thanks for having me, man, I appreciate it. Man, 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:50.120 I'm so excited. We just kind of got to, you know, 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.320 a little bit of a Twitter relationship, and man, I've 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.160 followed your story on and off throughout the years. My 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.320 son is a big m M A fan, And uh, 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.640 I'm really happy for you and to see where you 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.120 are today. Thanks Ben. Yeah, it's uh, it's a cool 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.919 place to be, especially considering where I was about four 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.080 years ago, you know what I mean? And yeah, you 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.520 do know, Yeah, you do know what I mean? Right, Yeah, 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.880 And it's baby steps, man, And I was brushing up 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.920 on some things today and so much of it resonated. Well, 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.160 let's start here. How the hell does somebody decide I 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.600 want to be a professional fighter uh, you know, I 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.520 kinda so I had another body who we're working at 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.800 a bar, and uh, it just kind of seemed like 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:35.920 it was a fun thing to do. I kind of 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:40.079 grew up doing getting into fight street fights and stuff 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:44.200 and uh and some of our longline. Uh, they told 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:45.920 me I could do it and I wasn't gonna get 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.120 in trouble and uh, I might even get paid at 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.360 some point. So that was you know, that was like 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.440 m M as the early days before it was like 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.799 really as big as it was, the UFC was a thing, 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.120 but it wasn't like a thing like a force like 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.240 it is now, you know. So it was that That's 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:06.040 kind of how for you. I was early twenties, so 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:08.480 I gotta got into it late. Um. You know a 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.600 lot of the a lot of the guys these days, 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.639 they start doing stuff because the sports gotten so big, 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.120 they start doing stuff at a at a real young age, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.480 you know, and it just wasn't the case when I 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.160 was younger. I just kind of dug the whole aspect 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:22.920 of fighting, and then then I fell in love with 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.040 like the more spiritual side of the fighting game too. 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:28.679 You know. Yeah, I was wondering about that, you know, 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.320 I've heard heard some fighters talk about how it it 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.560 really is more of an art form than about the 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:38.400 violence or actual fighting. What do you view it as? So? Uh? 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:40.839 Number one, I do love the violence of it. I mean, 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.040 you know what I mean. But there's something really uh 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:47.720 for lack of a better word, peaceful about being in there, 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.920 uh with another human being. And it's just you know, 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.119 as much as there is crowd noise and stuff, it's 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.480 just you and them like essentially locked in together and 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.360 you're really paying attention to the breathing and everything, and 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.880 you're very much in the moment, you know. And so 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.880 there there's like a real beauty to fighting. There really is, 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.040 you know, And I think that, I mean it is. Look, 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.440 it's violent, we're fighting each other. But at the same time, 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.200 there's a lot of people who find a certain amount 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:17.000 of like of of peace doing that, you know, And 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.560 I think I'm I'm one of them, and it isn't it. 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:23.480 You know. I obviously didn't compete like this in a 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.719 sport where you actually, you know, fight. We all talked about, well, 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.279 we went to war last night and we've battled them. No, 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:34.560 we didn't. Ye basketball the players never fight. Let's get North, 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.479 can we you know, you gotta fight somebody for three 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.680 seconds till they break you up, right right, Let's just 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:45.400 get that out of the way right now. No. So 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:49.240 I'm wondering though, But you know, playing that sport, you 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.839 know there no matter how hard you go at one another, 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.560 there's a mutual respect. And I gotta think that that's 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.160 you know some of it too, that piece of being 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.039 in the ring with someone else you know is a 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.880 professional and you guys are gonna I mean, I would think, 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.640 don't you sort of have a kinship even though you're 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.599 trying to kick that person's ass. So I got lucky. 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:09.279 I got to fight guys who are like kind of 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:11.920 my heroes, So I mean it was it was kind 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.880 of cool. Uh like Eaves Edwards and taking or Gold me. 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:18.360 We're uh those are the guys who I really liked 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.080 coming up and I got to fight him, you know. Uh, 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.479 So it was there is that kind of kinship, especially 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:26.520 when you're doing you're fighting somebody who you look up to, 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.960 you know, right, Well, tell me about the training that 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.400 somebody has to do to compete in m m A 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.279 and not like jumping rope and push ups, like what 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.719 it's like to learn all the fighting styles, how to 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:42.880 defend things all that. Uh. So the learning part, I mean, 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:44.560 that's the other part of it that's really cool is 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.520 you are learning a craft, you know, uh, and it's intense, 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.480 uh and it's fun. At my age, because I started 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.760 so late, I kind of was behind the curve, and 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.520 I really I pushed myself as hard as I could 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.480 to try to to try to catch out with these 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.120 like young guys like Cub Swanson is a really good 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.880 friend of mine and uh and he started young and 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:08.560 he would come out here to Albuquerque, and I always 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.680 felt like I had to work harder than him because 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:12.400 I didn't have the same amount of time and that 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.920 left in the sport or natural ability as him or 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.880 anything like that. So I always pushed myself as hard 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:20.560 as I could to try to get better at it. 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.800 You know, were you were you an athlete growing up? 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.039 Did you play sports? Did you? Um? Or you don't 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:28.920 have to play sports to be an athlete, but did 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.400 you have an athletic background growing up? Now? You know? 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.760 So I've never had a dad, so I don't know, uh, 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.159 you know, father in the house until like later on. Um, 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:41.520 and I just kind of had a hippie mom who 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:43.560 wrote poetry, so I don't even know if I was. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.280 That's awesome though, Yeah, that's awesome though. But finding it's 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.040 amazing to go through, you know, twenty years of your 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.560 life and then all of a sudden, you know, it had. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.479 I like the new sports, like in the Olympics every year. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.160 I enjoy that. I'm so thrilled to see, you know, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.320 it's a violent sport and I know you can you 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.080 only have a short window of time to do it. 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.120 But I'm really excited for, you know, there to be 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.760 another profession outside of just traditional boxing, which is that's 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.800 what it was when I was growing up. I remember 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.520 in my hometown they had something called um tough Man 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:20.200 competitions and those were just bare knuckle kind of things 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.040 until you one person got knocked out. And you know, 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.880 it's just amazing to see where the sport and where 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.400 mixed martial arts has gone over the last thirty years. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.640 I love watching the sport. Grol. I honestly think that 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.280 uh M M A. As much as M M A 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:38.600 and boxing compete with each other as far as like 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:40.920 for viewership and stuff, I think they also push each 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.520 other to get better, you know, uh you're seeing people 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.560 pick up stuff from other skill sets and other sports, 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:50.040 and and you're also seeing boxing now starting to get 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.480 a revival of being a little bit more exciting than 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.080 it was after after Mike Tyson and after the eighties boxers. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.840 You know, uh, for a while, we weren't treated to 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.000 any of the Hagler Herns stuff. It was just kind 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.440 of boring, you know so, And I think mixed martial 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.400 arts kind of nipping it its its heels really forced 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.040 it into a place where now it's gotten exciting again. 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.160 I agree with that. Um, let's talk about the process 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.160 of becoming a pro. What is that? Like? Who do 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.600 you have to beat or impress or better question, how 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.560 do you even get noticed? Because there's so many m 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.280 m A and UFC style gems. How does one go 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.560 from just doing that to trying to make a living 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:32.679 in the NBA. There's a pretty clear path. If you 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.000 go to college, you go to the NBA. How did 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:37.959 you decipher all of that? When I started off there 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.920 with you never had an amateur pro kind of deal. 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.800 You just you started fighting. And then I got lucky 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:45.760 enough to be in in one of the better gyms 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:49.120 in the world in Albuquerque, and just did a certain 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:52.520 amount of rounds with with all the really talented A 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.160 level guys, and and then I beat some guys and 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.280 people took notice of me, you know, I got I 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.120 getting your ass kicked at first vice him guys when 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:05.520 you just didn't know what you're doing yet. Yeah, uh, 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.520 you know that's kind of when I was coming up, 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.320 I think for because we didn't know any better. You 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:13.160 earned your lumps in the gym. I mean, you know, 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:16.080 you really, you really did. And there was there was 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:17.959 some real talent in our gym. You know. We had 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.280 Cowboys Roni and Cub and and and a bunch of guys, 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.120 you know. And I would just get in front of 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:24.840 him because I wanted time in front of the coach 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:26.959 and I knew that it would make me better talking 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.040 to them and training with them. So that's just what 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.400 I did. And and again I was an older guy, 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:34.040 so it's not like I had like this. I didn't 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.120 ever have anybody looking out for me like these younger 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:42.440 talented guys. Did you know. You gotta remember Cowboys six 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.600 six years younger than me, and his career in the 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.760 w C and USC started way like long before mine, did. 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:51.200 I just thought it was a cool deal and I 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.520 wanted a spot. You know, you have to be a 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:55.840 really good student though, you know, I don't know how 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:57.600 you did it growing up and when you were in 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:01.600 school or everything, but it obviously appeared that there's something 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:06.360 with this sport that you found intriguing and you were 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.040 able to pick it up, I mean pretty damn quickly. 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.319 And it takes a lot of studying, you know, and 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.760 being engaged as much as it was studying just a 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.080 bunch of hard work. I mean I was always known 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.520 as like I would put an extra time. I would 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.320 put in, you know, more time because I knew that 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:24.560 I didn't have the advantage of having the talent that 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.080 some of these guys did, and I knew where I was, 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.840 so I just I put in. I worked my ass off, 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:33.280 you know, fantastic. How do you describe the feeling being 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.400 in the ring when your fights about to start? Are 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.360 you focused on your plan? Are you just trying to 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.720 get quiet in your mind? Or are you ampt and 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.319 ready to ready your role? I get so the minute 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.040 I get in there, I get real quiet. I mean, 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:48.800 like the up leading up to a fight, I'm super 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.600 nervous and super I mean It's a scary deal. You're 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.440 you're literally about to go fight somebody and possibly get 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.000 knocked out on TV or whatever they're you know whatever, 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.360 you're looking at your home crowd or whatever. But then 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.200 once you get in there, like I said, everything gets 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.440 kind of quiet again, you know, I mean really like 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:06.760 it's just you and that other guy at that point, 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:08.640 and you hear your your hone in on your coaches, 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:12.360 and it's just really, uh, I'm just you're there to 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.480 do your thing kind of and it's like, what what 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.280 you worked hard for? You know? Yeah? Um so, okay, 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.000 you're part of the UFC and you're in the mix. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:22.760 Tell me what it's like to be a part of, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.640 you know, one of these big cards and the whole process. 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.080 Who's helping you figure out who to fight and you 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.760 know what to do when fights fall apart. Uh So 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.120 I had good managers and good coaching luckily along the way. 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.679 And you know, uh, we'll get when we get into 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:41.880 the addiction stuff, we'll get in. My career didn't last 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.800 very long in the UFC. I found pain pills law 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:49.520 like almost immediately, you know, and you can see uh, 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.520 kind of my from my first fight to my second 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:56.000 fight even that like the downfall, like the starting of 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.240 the of the addiction, you know, because I had done 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.880 some you know, I fought for another organization that the 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.880 UFC owned, called Strike Force, and I beat a really 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.959 bigger name at the time. And then, uh, and then 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:09.679 I had my first fight in the UFC against a 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.880 guy named Eves Edwards. And then right after that, I 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:13.800 hurt my back and that was kind of like the 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.400 you know, I kind of messed around the stuff, but 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.880 that was like it, you know, I mean, it was 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.199 just you know, that part of it was became more 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.960 exciting than the than the fight itself. I get it. 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.319 I get it. You know, I've said I've read where 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.040 you said you struggled with drugs from an early age. 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.640 When did drugs enter your life? When I was like, 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.880 I mean, drinking twelve thirteen, Drinking was always part of 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.400 my family. So it was like we were the we 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.480 were the family of like taking SIPs at the family reunions, 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.920 you know what I mean. The parents didn't mind or 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.960 adults didn't mind. Yeah, get it. Yeah, it was just 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:52.760 a I mean, I think it was just different than 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:54.880 you know, it was just what you did in family stuff, 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.320 you know, Uh, so there was always that, but like 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.800 on my own, like twelve or thirteen, really young, Like 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.320 like I look at my daughter who's fifteen. Now I'm thinking, man, 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:07.800 you are not even close to ready to any any drinks. 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.440 And I'm like, oh the hell, I know. I know. 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.000 Isaac is a great example of how things can go 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:20.520 downhill quickly, from drinking as a youngster at family functions 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.079 to using at parties to letting it all affect his 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.960 livelihood as an m M A fighter. I for one, 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.199 know the dangers of opioids for my playing career and thereafter. 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.079 Although basketball can be brutal to the body, there is 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.079 no comparison to what an m M A fighter is 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.400 put through in the ring and in the ranks. Isaac 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:44.480 was ascending, but on the inside, his greatest battle was 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:53.560 about to begin. So at what point did it go 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:58.400 from alcohol to something else? So I have always struggled 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.560 and kind of went in and out of of some 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.559 sort of a program and like white knuckled stuff and 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.920 and things like that. Uh, but you know, and I've 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.760 always dabbled in drugs, but like the really hard opiate 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:14.079 stuff wasn't until this last, this last little stint that 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.360 I had, you know, like in in twenty twelve, I started, 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:22.200 were you someone who partied Isaac or someone who used uh, 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.640 you know to kind of sort of make things go 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.640 away or to level out? I started by being a 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.000 party or I mean, like I always I always thought 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.520 that that's how you that's how you unwound. And I 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.880 saw people who could party, just party, you know what 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.520 I mean. You know, I'm sure just like you see 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:41.800 people celebrate after a game, right, and you're like, yeah, 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:43.400 I can do that, and I just you know, so 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:45.680 that's how it started. But then towards the end of it, 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.080 it was just me getting high in my garage by myself, 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.160 you know, so and and that was just there's nothing 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.040 there except for masking something some other trauma that I'm 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.120 trying to deal with, you know. Towards the end, there 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:57.960 is no more party left, you know. I mean, it's 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.880 just you know, remember getting yeah, I remember getting in. 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.000 You know, at first, everybody says it's you know, at first, 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.560 drugs are fun, and then it's fun with problems, and 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.760 then it's just problems after a while. Like let's talk 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.080 about pain meds in gyms and locker rooms. Uh no, 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.280 I I'm not trying to get you to get anybody 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.280 in trouble. But what what was that like in the 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:22.400 UFC and m M A world. So everybody again, you know, 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.280 like you're dealing with a bunch of alpha males, uh 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.120 or alpha male mentality kind of stuff that it's like 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.400 guys if they were using and I know a few 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:36.000 guys who who were because we talked about it now 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.120 and they've had they've addressed some issues. But you hid 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.240 that stuff because you didn't want anybody knowing that you 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.360 had a weakness of some sort, you know. Uh. So 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.640 you know I found my guy and uh and but 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.400 it's not like this is a guy your doctor was 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:55.240 outside the gym. Yeah, outside the gym, And so I 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.920 found a guy that wasn't going to relay stuff back 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:01.480 to anybody. You know, I think, you know, there was 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.720 a couple of guys. There's a few guys in the 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.000 gym who knew I was doing stuff by the time 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.160 it was too late. But I mean I tried to 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:09.920 keep it hitting the best that I could. You know, 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.000 I didn't you know, I didn't think I knew how 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:20.520 dangerous I because I considered myself such a strong guy. Um, 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.080 I didn't think that I was going to have the 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.760 same issues with with opiates that everybody else did, you 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:27.880 know what I mean? And I'm sure sure you were 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.360 the same way, right. I mean, you're you're a professional athlete. 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:34.760 You've you've gotten yourself whatever is right. You've gotten yourself 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:36.640 this far. So I'm gonna be able to handle this 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.040 and I'll just stop after whatever. You know, Yeah, you 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.840 feel invincible, like you're one of one. You know, you 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:48.080 just can do anything right. Yeah, and you know it's yeah, 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.840 you really do. And it's crazy how much. And I 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.920 think you're seeing a lot of guy, especially fighters now, 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:56.960 you're seeing a lot of guys who are who are 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:02.000 starting to get affected by that um mental health wise 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.440 and then addiction to wise and everything. I mean, it's 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.280 a it's a big deal. You're taking a bunch of 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.480 kids who didn't know anything, letting us get hit or 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.600 we we put ourselves in there, but we all get 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:13.480 hit in the head a bunch, and then you put 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.399 us in front of a camera and things are bound 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.280 to to get a little bit weird, you know, no, 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.040 no question about it. You know I've said this before 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:25.440 on the show. Um, but I remember when I took OxyContin. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.000 You know, my brain immediately had a reaction that was like, 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.600 oh shit, I really like this. This is my this 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.280 is my jam. Uh. You know, I want to feel 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.320 this way all the time. That's immediately what I felt, 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.880 which we know not everyone feels like that. You had 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.640 something similar happened though, right, Oh yeah, that was like 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.239 once I took an opiate, uh, you know, because I 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.240 was taking them as prescribed and then I started snorting him. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.600 And once I started snorting him, I was like, this 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.679 is this is it? Like, Wow, I never snorted him. 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.240 I I I chewed them. I chewed them to try 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:03.760 to get in. I've heard of the you know, I 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.920 got into rehab and heard of the snorting. But man, 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.760 that's gotta be Oh my goodness. Look man, like we 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.200 wouldn't we wouldn't be having this conversation if it wasn't 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:14.960 one of the greatest feelings in the world, you know what. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.200 I'm with you, and it's uh, it's one of those 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.919 things that just eventually kicked the ship out of me. 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.480 But I mean like I loved it, man, I really 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:25.680 until I did, and I loved it, you know same, 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.679 you know, I for me, I the the initial I 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.440 was always kind of a little, uh, socially awkward around 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.600 people I didn't know, and you know, being in sports, 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.679 people would come up all the time and you know, 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.719 kind of say hi and introduced themselves, and I'd always 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:45.080 felt really just awkward about it. The second that I 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:49.359 took the OxyContin, it was like my guard went down. 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.320 I felt more at ease in my own mind. I 0:18:53.440 --> 0:19:00.800 felt more. I felt funnier and smarter, and you know, everything, um, 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.800 and before you know it, it's you know, it's not 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.960 that way, and you're chasing one pill and the next pill. 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.560 You know, you get to the point it's you're not 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.560 deciding when to take it anymore. It's telling you when 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.560 you need it. It's telling you when it's time, like 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.320 either physically or you or you know, I mean like 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.600 the same thing that most of us who are addicted 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.480 really kind of have. Is it like we got something 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:24.560 different in our brain that's telling us when it's time. 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.520 And it's not just the physical stuff, you know, it's 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.920 like really like something clicks in my head that it's like, man, 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.199 it's time to to get high. Still, you know, so 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:37.120 at one point, you know, I'm sure it was they 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.199 were prescribed to you for legitimate, you know pain, like 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:46.000 you said, back pain. Um, how long and because there's 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:50.080 something that goes on with our minds? How long did 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:55.159 you take opioids thinking and truly believing I am only 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:59.639 taking this for my physical pain until you realize you 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.680 were you know, you're actually just taking it because you're 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.040 addicted and you like the way it makes you feel. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.320 I think there was a certain amount of that throughout 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.520 the whole time, Like I had to. I had to, 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.719 you know, like my addict brain. Even so even when 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:17.040 I started, so I went from pills to heroin, and uh, 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.200 even when I started using the heroin, I'm like, well, 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:21.359 I really hurt, you know. I mean, like there's a 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.000 real you know, and and that's bullsh I mean it 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.560