1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Michael barn and I'm Scott Sashnik. On this 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: weekly podcast, we explore the big money issues in the 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: world of sports and talk to some of the biggest 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: players in the industry. On this week's show, we speak 5 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: with founder of Athletic Intelligence Measures Scott Goldman. But first 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: let's get to the top stories of the week. Joining 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: us is Bloomberg Business of Sports reporter Evan Novie Williams, Oh, 8 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: you guys did this because y'all love me. Yes, that's 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: the Tea Grads, Tigers and Royals. They'll play before the 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen College World Series. Now, what's the purpose of 11 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: this bar Because they are the Tigers, that's why. Well, 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 1: they're trying like they're trying to appeal to a younger audience, 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: so that means the College World Series. So if I 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: want to appeal to the younger audience and there's a 15 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: Tiger involved, it's Tony the Tiger. I'm not sure if 16 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: it's if it's Figert's Trammel and those boys and La Fleur, 17 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: if you will, thank you very much, Thomas Sullivan magnum um. 18 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: I'm really struggling why they're doing this because and this 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: is why those are baseball fans already. If you are 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: attending the College World Series, you like baseball, Odds are 21 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: every single person in that stadium has a favorite big 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: league team, has a hat, they go to games, they 23 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: what whatever, They're already fans of baseball. You need to 24 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: attract young new fans. Does this do that? I would 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: argue that this is It's also I mean, you're right 26 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: that the part of this is attracting younger fans of 27 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: synergy between college and professional baseball. Another part of this 28 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: is kind of like what we see with the NHL 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: and and the winner games that winner classic games, right, 30 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: just creating some kind of property that is refreshing. It's 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: just about specifical different setting this. This will have some 32 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: spectacle aspect thanks to it also absolutely in the same 33 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: way that baseball is planning those games in Williams for 34 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: for the for the Little League World Series, Right, it's 35 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: the same kind of thing. Having a baseball game that 36 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: is not your standard. One team travels to another team's 37 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: home stadium to have a game, is going to have 38 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: some kind of traditional new, smaller stadium. It's a twenty 39 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: four thousand seat stadium there, there's gonna be something new 40 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: around this, kind of like what the NHL did with 41 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: the Winner Classic. I'm down on nuttake because that's just 42 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: about casual sports fans here about the NHL Winner Classic 43 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: in the outdoor games and they see the stadium out 44 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: and like, oh, that's kind of cool, and they take 45 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: note of it. I don't see casual sports fans looking 46 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: even a smaller stadium, go, it'll look like a baseball game. 47 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: You know what'll do it? Let him use the metal bats. 48 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 1: Let him picture dies with line drive off face. Yeah, 49 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: let him use the metal bats. Moving right along, jay 50 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: Z joints Puma this one. I like, this is an 51 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: interesting story because you've got the yea zs and Adidas. 52 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: Adidas is suddenly cool and Kanye is one of the 53 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: big reasons why jay Z joins as creative director. Evan, 54 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: you're you know, you're one of the young, hip, cool guys, right. 55 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: Does this make you think that perhaps you would go 56 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: and buy what jay Z says is cool more than 57 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 1: what Kanye says is cool? But you see you this 58 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: this makes sense? Yeah? I saw this analogy online a 59 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: couple of days ago, equating this to to a surprise 60 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: album drop. You know, that's something that jay Z fans 61 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: can relate to. Puma did a lot of things at once. 62 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: They signed some of the top players that are going 63 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: to be drafted this week. They added Clyde Frasier as 64 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: as a lifetime endorser, a guy who endorsed Puma decades 65 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: ago when they were still in the basketball game. There 66 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: was a pop up shop in Brooklyn that no one 67 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: knew about that came out kind of right as this 68 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: was happening. And of course the Staples signing jay Z 69 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: to be the creative director. All of those things coming 70 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: together the week of the NBA Draft was a very 71 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: clever marketing play the right time and way to Michael 72 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: Barr in Detroit at a certain time, Clyde Fraser leaning 73 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: on the Rolls Royce with the fur jacket, was there 74 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: anybody cooler than Clyde Diamond in the back sunroof top 75 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: big in the scene with the gangster le There we 76 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: go that I mean that that is that I couldn't 77 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: believe that like Puma didn't use that more often, Like 78 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: Clyde should be front and center always. He's the epitome 79 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: of cool. Speaking of not cool, our next topics, let's 80 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: have fun with this. Don't judge the US Open ball 81 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: people will roll throwballs this year? Are we doing this? Yeah? Alright, 82 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: let's play ready. Van didn't want to do this story. 83 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: I saw it just came across and I'm like, here 84 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: is here is my my measuring stick. If you were 85 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: on the bar stool, no pun intended. You're sitting on 86 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: a bar stool next year, Buddy at lunch today, would 87 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: you tell him or her did you see what the 88 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: U s Open is doing? Did you? Would you discuss this? Really? 89 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: Am I on this? I think this is so funny. 90 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: I would tell I'll talk to all my friends about 91 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: this and say, what are they doing? Everybody's seen the 92 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: tournament when the ball goes to the baseline and they 93 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: throw it to the other baseline. The US Open has 94 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: decided that they want a more diverse athlete and they're 95 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: gonna roll the ball across the court instead of throwing it. 96 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: Can't you just see where it goes awry and it's 97 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: gonna a little to the left, little to the right, 98 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: it hits the net. This is this is just doesn't 99 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: make any sense. I don't know what's crazier to me. 100 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: The fact that they're doing this with the intention of 101 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: getting a more diverse athlete crowd. They want to talk 102 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: about all the people out there who are afraid that 103 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: they can't throw a ball across the tennis court can 104 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: now apply, whereas in the past they haven't. And they said, 105 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: there's like eight slots and five people are trying out anyway, 106 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: And there's always new stories every year, you know about 107 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: about they send a reporter who goes on to the 108 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: ball to the other side, who there are people that 109 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: can't I am also shocked that they would even publicize this. 110 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: Just do it, Just do it, yea, just just change 111 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: it for the five story. Apparently it's the only of 112 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: the of the four majors that requires a ball to 113 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: be thrown. Everybody else rolls US Open. The US Open 114 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: is getting in line with all the other majors. But 115 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: you know there's the tagline that's how we roll. Thank you. 116 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: I hope they still sell those huge you know, the 117 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: huge balls harder but easier to roll, much easier, much 118 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: easier to roll. Now that we're done without we had 119 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: fun with that, and people are gonna say, what what 120 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: did you hear? What you what I heard of Bloomberg? 121 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: Thank you our thanks and not my kidding. I thank 122 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: you to Bloomberg Business of Sports reporter Evan Nobby Williams. 123 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: You can follow him on Twitter at novie Underscore. Williams 124 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: needs to change that, all right, Scott. Now let's get 125 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: into this week's interview. Scott Goldman, founder of Athletic Intelligence Measures, 126 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: a company that specializes in mental analytics. Essentially, they put 127 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: athletes through tests and analyze things like decision making, learning efficiency, 128 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: visual spatial processing, etcetera. They work with six NBA teams, 129 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: five NFL teams, MLB and NHL teams, E sports and 130 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: military special forces, etcetera. You know, Mr big Bar, with 131 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: all the research they found statistical markers, they believe our 132 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: best indicators of success on the field. Let's say in 133 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: the NFL, for example, defensive backs, if they have the 134 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: fastest visual spatial decision making, that means more interceptions. And 135 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: they also have tested a lot of the top NBA 136 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: draft prospects. Thank you so much Scott for joining us. Oh, 137 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: it's an honor to be here. Thank you. I hope 138 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: it's just mental analytics and not gymnastics, because I am 139 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: not prempared. I am not prepared for this totally different 140 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: skill set for sure. Well I'm gonna ask for what 141 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: is it? First of all, what tell me what you 142 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: guys do? Yeah? So, UM intelligence in its truest form 143 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: is one's ability to acquire, process, and apply information. So 144 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: a lot of times you hear UM announcers or or 145 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: fans or or you know, anyone who's talking about sports 146 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: will say, oh, this person's got a great basketball IQ, 147 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: or this person has got a great football like you. 148 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: And in reality, what they're really describing is knowledge, which 149 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: is kind of like knowing the right answer to the test. 150 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: But intelligence is how you go about doing that. So, 151 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: if you think of sports as an unsolvable puzzle, UM, 152 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: which is what it is, which is why I think 153 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: we're all so entertained by It's the ultimate reality tv 154 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: UM intelligence is just one of those components that we 155 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: can use to help try to get as close to 156 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,679 Speaker 1: the solution as possible. In addition to size, speed and strength. 157 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: There are people wrong when they look at Lebron James 158 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: and just say, well, he's just so big and strong 159 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: and jump high. Of course he's the best player. I 160 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 1: look at him, I think he's making like a thousand 161 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: micro calculations a second, as he's bringing the ball up, Like, 162 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: how hard to bounce the ball? What's the angle of 163 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: the defense coming? How hard do I need to pass 164 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: the ball? Is that the proper way to look at 165 00:08:54,400 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: somebody like lebron That really there's an intelligence factor there. Yeah, 166 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: I mean lebron Is. You know, I just always whenever 167 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: I talked about individual, I always want to be clear, Um, 168 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: I've never worked with lebron I've never met Lebron um 169 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: and if I had, or if we did have some 170 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: kind of work relationship, I wouldn't be able to disclose it. 171 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: So I just always want to kind of honor that 172 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: because though it's great to talk about an individual to 173 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: use as an example, I also just want to be 174 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: ethical in that manner. Um. Going back to it though, 175 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 1: and as a fan and somebody who's worked in sports 176 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: for the last twenty years, UM, I can tell you 177 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: lebron Is is absolutely somebody who's special. And I think 178 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: to your point, he really checks all the boxes. He's strong, 179 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: he's fast, he's smart, he's knowledgeable. You know, we've never 180 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: tested him, like I said, but it wouldn't surprise me 181 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: just watching the things that he does, that he possesses 182 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: some great um cognitive assets. Give me a clue, is 183 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: what's sorre some things you would test him for? What 184 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: sorts of things would he be doing? And what would 185 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: it tell you? Yeah, so the a I q UM 186 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: which is which is the measure that we invented. My 187 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: partner and I Jim Bowman, who's a school psychologist in 188 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: New York. So UM couldn't It's it's really a collaboration 189 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: between the two of us. What we did was is 190 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: um and and I'm going to take kind of a 191 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: roundabout way to get to your answer, but I promise 192 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: I'll answer your question. I feel like I'm talking to 193 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: my wife, Scott, So so you know it for us, 194 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: it started in and the big debate was between Ryan 195 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning. And by the way, I 196 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: wrote a column on this way back when, and I am, 197 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: I guess it's on records and go look at it. 198 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: I said I would choose Ryan Lee. O nobody bats 199 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: a thousand. And you know it's also possible that Ryan Leaf, 200 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: with better comprehension and in a better environment around him, 201 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: could have could have ended up with a much different result. 202 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the beauty of this stuff, and 203 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: I think it again, it goes back to why we 204 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: watch is we just don't know what's going to happen UM, 205 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: And that's a that's a big part of what we're 206 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: trying to do, is we're just trying to help people 207 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: make more well informed and well educated UM guesses. So 208 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: going back to it, the debate was between Ryan Leaf 209 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: and Peyton Manning. And to your point, most people were 210 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: talking about Ryan Leaf's upside potential and physical measurables, but 211 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: they kept talking about Peyton Manning's intangibles and how he 212 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: wants and so UM. When I was in grad school 213 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: at the time learning intelligence theory, I just was going, 214 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: I wonder how they're measuring his intellect And what I 215 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: came up with was, I think there's a better mouse trap. So, now, 216 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: answering your question, what are the things that we're looking for, 217 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: we're looking for things like visual spatial processing, which is 218 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: you know how you go about scanning the field and 219 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: digesting that in for nation, so knowing where you are 220 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: in relation to space key landmarks. Imagine a wide receiver 221 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: who's running a route, and you'll hear this a lot 222 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: sometimes where UM announcers, fans coaches that get really frustrated 223 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: because the guy runs, you know, a seven yard route, 224 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: but he only but he makes his cut at the 225 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: five yard marker. And sometimes that's due to pressure room 226 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: with the defense gives, and other times it's due because, um, 227 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: the wide receiver just didn't know where he was. Another 228 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: thing that will measure his reaction time. But our reaction 229 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: time is a little bit it's it's a little bit 230 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: more sophisticated than most because we don't just measure speed. 231 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: We also measure accuracy as well as UM how people 232 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: do when distractions are present. And what we've noticed is 233 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: with some of our Major League Baseball teams that UM 234 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: this really significantly correlates with things like batting average, slugging percentages, 235 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: UM actual on field performance, which makes sense because as 236 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: one managed are once told me, the secret to hitting 237 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: isn't swinging at a prior fastball. It's not swinging at 238 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: an eighty seven mile prior curve. Another one of our 239 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: components that we assess this decision making, which goes to 240 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: your point. You know, someone bringing the ball up the 241 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: court and has to really scan the court for my 242 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: new details and then make a quick and accurate decision 243 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: of where and who to pass the ball to, and 244 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: then what trajectory and angles and then the final one, 245 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: which is our most universal property, is called learning efficiency, 246 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 1: which is really the ability to download information and then 247 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: recall it later. So, um, that can be how long 248 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: does it take for you to get it on Thursday 249 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: and then be able to successfully recall it on Sunday? 250 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: Or you see something in the first quarter, can you 251 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: remember what that was and what it's meaning was in 252 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: the fourth quarter? You work with five NFL teams And 253 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: the first thing that popped in my mind, and it's 254 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: on track of what you were just saying, involves the defense. Now, 255 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: if you're covering the defense man to man, it's one 256 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: thing you've got, you know, that's pretty much simple. But 257 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: if you're covering a zone defense, you've got to make 258 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: a call very quickly. All right, I'm covering this guy 259 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I might have to switch 260 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: off and cover this guy in a hurry. And is 261 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: that something you guys teach. That's that's right, I mean, well, 262 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: it's something that we help explain, you know. Um, sometimes 263 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: you'll hear in pop psychology like no, your why, No, 264 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: your why and for us, it's really about knowing your 265 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: how So a lot of times what we're telling coaches, 266 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, general managers, and the players themselves is we 267 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: already know you're good, like you wouldn't be in the 268 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: space that you're at and if you weren't good, We're 269 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: just trying to figure out how so that way we 270 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: can coach more efficiently, we can put people in successful positions, 271 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: minimize air, minimize frustration, and to your point exactly, I mean, 272 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: it's just the idea of why is it that this 273 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: guy is always in the same is always in the 274 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: right place at the right time, and this other player 275 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: is constantly making the same mistakes over and over again. 276 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: And I think I think what we have been able 277 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: to provide people is an explanation for that. And Scott, 278 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: this is a business of sports show. I imagine with 279 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: all the money at risk with college players, even high 280 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: school age players and large contracts, that everybody's looking for 281 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: that advantage. Do you find that the intelligence measure is 282 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: gaining an importance and gaining an acceptance as the money grows. Yeah, so, um, honestly, 283 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: you hit the nail on the head, I would say, 284 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: with an emphatic work is done here dropped the mike, 285 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: But I mean what I would say is so I 286 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: was the director of Performance and Clinical Psychology for the 287 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: University of Arizona for eight years. I was the director 288 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: of Performance in Clinical Psychology for the University of Michigan 289 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: for four years. And now I'm currently contracted as an 290 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: employee for an NFL team, and I've served as a 291 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: gatekeeper for all three of those entities and UM and 292 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: what's been interesting is the amount of products and things 293 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: that are out there. They're making promises and they're kind 294 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: of like overselling, under delivering and it and it's really 295 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: hard because what they discussed is not visible or tangible. 296 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: And so I think the unfortunate reality is there's a 297 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: lot of stuff out there that's that's questionable and its 298 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: nature and what what its claims are. By contrast, and 299 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: really where I wanted to go with it is, you know, 300 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: the ai Q has found statistically significant correlation with on 301 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: field performance in the NFL and Major League Baseball, and 302 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: to my knowledge, were the only we're the only product 303 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: that I've discovered that does that UM and with real 304 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: important stuff. So, for example, in the NFL, regardless of 305 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: draft status, we have found higher a AQ scores and 306 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: running backs statistically significantly correlates with rushing yards, and I 307 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: think that's that's something that's notable and tangible because intelligence 308 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: is a genetically stable trade um and and happens to also, 309 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: according to the literature, be one of the greatest predictors 310 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: of success. So I do see this as being the 311 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: next frontier of of ways to make a more well 312 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: educated death when it comes to selection and how to 313 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: really maximize talent. Okay, now that we've got this guy, 314 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: how do we best put him in positions of success. 315 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: We're currently working with NFL, NBA, MLS, NHL, and Major 316 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: League Baseball, so we've got all five of the major leagues. 317 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: Were also worked with some power five UM schools, colleges, universities, 318 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: Olympic training facilities, and also E Sports. We have an 319 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: active contract with an E Sports team. I was just 320 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: gonna ask that E Sports is. It's just one of 321 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: the biggest things that's going on out there now, and 322 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: I gotta tell the story real quick. I'm watching my 323 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: thirteen year old son play Fortnite. It was just a 324 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: few days ago, and I'm yelling at the TV just 325 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: like a fan watching and and I'm just amazed how 326 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm hooked onto this e sports is so many things involved. 327 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: There's a lot of money out there, from the racing 328 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: games onto the fortnight. I mean, we can just go on. 329 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: What do you do with the sports? It's gotta be 330 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: a little different, Yeah, I mean, it's funny because it 331 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: is a little bit different, and yet at the same 332 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: time it's it's exactly the same thing. You know, when 333 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: you're playing some of these games, you know it is 334 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: all based off of spatial awareness and pattern recognition and 335 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: all these really kind of key elements. So again, whether 336 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: you're a quarterback scanning the defense trying to figure out 337 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: where the whole is, or if you're a sniper and 338 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: say call of duty, you're still engaged in the same 339 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: kind of process cognitively. So we've found what was really 340 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: interesting to us was we weren't really sure how the 341 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: East sports athletes would compare to our elite sample because 342 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: we've tested now over four thousand elite athletes, and so 343 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: it was really interesting to see, Okay, how would these 344 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: sport athletes compare. Would they you know, because they're more 345 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: familiar with technology and electronics theoretically, um, would they just 346 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: completely bust up our our curve, our database curve, or 347 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: would they because they're not elite athletes as we know 348 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: them to be traditionally, i e. The star quarterback? Are 349 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: they somebody who might be at the other end? And 350 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: what we found as they fit beautifully into our into 351 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: our data set. They qualified just like like any other 352 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: athlete we've ever tested, which I thought was interesting. We're 353 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: chatting with Scott Goldman. He's the founder of Athletic Intelligence Measures. Scott, 354 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: how young is too young? Is there something like it's 355 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: waste of time to to test an eight year old 356 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: or a twelve year old? Yeah? So UM intelligence does 357 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: start to um crystallize or stabilizing around age sixteen, so 358 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: our test is developed for ages sixteen and older. However, 359 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: we are UM in the works of creating a youth version. 360 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that's trickier is youth 361 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: development isn't uniform. So what you have to do is 362 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: you have to set it in three months increments, and 363 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: this kind of takes us a little bit into the weeds. 364 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: But the nature of it is children grow at different paces, 365 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: different speeds, and different levels. So in order to really 366 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: have the intelligence be accurately recorded. Whether you're using more 367 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: traditional measures like you would in a school setting to 368 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: identify giftedness or learning disability, you have to make sure 369 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: that you're capturing that intelligence accurately. That's what I was wondering, Like, 370 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: what is for you again? You're a business having the 371 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: big league clubs, that's great, but that's a finite set 372 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: of people. The real scale here, I would think would 373 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: be youth sports. Our listeners know my son as a 374 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: competitive hockey player, and there's some crazy parents on the 375 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,959 Speaker 1: sideline who will look for any and all advantage if 376 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: they can find one. Yeah, and so yeah, it's funny 377 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: because you talk about being a businessman, and though I 378 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: do consider myself I am also a licensed psychologist, and 379 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: I remember during my training I was once asked which 380 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: are you business or psychologist? And I answered psychologists and 381 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: the person correct me and they said, no, you have 382 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: to be a good businessman first, otherwise your services will 383 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: never be utilized or maximized. And it's funny because I've 384 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: always wrestled with that dilemma because even though to your point, 385 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: I think we could scale with that youth version, and 386 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: I think we could um sell too. Eager and hungry 387 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: parents looking for competitive advantages. I'd also want to be 388 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: real cautious about what's the purpose and utility because, like 389 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: anything else, um technology is not treatment, and what you 390 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: do with it really matters. And so I think what 391 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: would be important to me is, you know, if if 392 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: these parents are trying to use it as a way 393 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 1: to convince the coach to play their child or you know, 394 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: to enter it into that kind of dynamic that's less healthy. 395 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: I'm just I would hope that that it wouldn't be 396 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: used that way, but if if in a in a 397 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: healthier kind of mechanism, it was this idea of hey, 398 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: I just want to understand how my kid processes the game, 399 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: so that way I can be of support and we 400 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: can work on things, and we can play to his 401 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: strengths and we can offset as weaknesses. You know, for example, 402 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: with that learning efficiency mechanism, that doesn't mean if you 403 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: score low on that, it doesn't mean you can't download information. 404 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: It just means it requires more reps to do so. 405 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: So it could be a great mechanism where you know, 406 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: as a parent, coach and child work collaboratively, they could 407 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: say something along the lines of, hey, don't get frustrated. 408 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: I'm trying as hard as I can. What takes other 409 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: people five reps to get it takes me ten. And 410 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: then we can come up with strategies to create those 411 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: ten reps without loading up on on my body that 412 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: could increase chance of injury. There's something else that you 413 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: guys do, and it takes us to a new level 414 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: and a much more serious level. You guys are also 415 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: involved in military special forces. It's one thing when it's 416 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: a game. I mean, we can come on the air 417 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: and talk about old did you see what Phil Mickelson did? 418 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's done. It's 419 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: a game, and we move on military special forces at 420 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: a whole new level and the stakes are high. Yeah, 421 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: that's that. That is a completely different group and they 422 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: are remarkable people and like you said, the decisions and 423 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: the actions that they make is not about putting a 424 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: ball through a who I am grateful and and for 425 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: their service and honored to contribute when when we can 426 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: and whatever method we can can. You go into what 427 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: kind of training is involved with special military forces? Well, again, 428 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: it's more about providing that information. So what we do is, um, 429 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: we they'll take the test, they get the report, and 430 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: the same kind of mechanism of a basketball player, baseball player, 431 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: football player or special forces person is they're entering an 432 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: unknown scenario with a lot of moving pieces and chaos, 433 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: and so how you go about navigating that world. So 434 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, you check a door down open, you enter 435 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: into a space, and you gotta quickly scan and look 436 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: for minute details of relevance that is interchangeable to again, 437 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: a running back who's hit the a gap who now 438 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: quickly has to locate that second pier of potential tacklers 439 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: and those minute details of relevance. So the focus is 440 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: really about understanding how people think. And it's interesting because 441 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: normally when you say that, people go to a more 442 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: emotional thing like, oh, this person thinks um internally, this 443 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 1: person gets yelled at. This person you can mother as 444 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: this person you need to coddle. But when I say 445 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: it's how people think, I mean it's really about watching 446 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: almost like the matrix right where where their brains are 447 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: digesting and evaluating all this information in life time, which 448 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: is really hard to do in general. And then I 449 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: think what's super impressive is when you think about the 450 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,959 Speaker 1: physical tax. So you're like most of us who are 451 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: sitting in front of a computer. UM, we're using our 452 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: brains and we're taking on puzzles, but our body is 453 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: not being taxed. It's at rest. When you throw even 454 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 1: a simple task like running, UM, where all you have 455 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: to do is basically put one foot in front of 456 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: the other, our cognitive functioning UM is impacted by that, 457 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: and the research supports that. So now all of a sudden, 458 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: when you've got people who are running, jumping, diving, turning, twisting, 459 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: flipping and everything else in between and trying to make 460 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,239 Speaker 1: active decisions, now you've got something that's really remarkable. We 461 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: are chatting with Scott Goldman, the founder of Athletic Intelligence Measures, 462 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: and Scott, you know, when you go to a car wash, 463 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: you can get the basic wash or you can get 464 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: the wax and the undercarriage and the vacuum. If I 465 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: go to you and I've got my eighteen year old, 466 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: I mean the NBA Draft is this week. So if 467 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: I'm a team and I bring this eighteen year old 468 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: to you, and I say I want the works, what 469 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: does it cost? Yeah? So, UM, we've actually tested seventy 470 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: seven NBA prospects this year for the draft and we're 471 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: under contract with six teams UM at this moment, so 472 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: that's kind of exciting for us. So you mentioned our 473 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: NFL contracts as well, throw out the NBA ones in 474 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: there too. UM. As far as the service that we provide, 475 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: we have a couple of different levels of reports. So 476 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: at the simplest level are for those that are really 477 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: bought into the analytics, and so we provide a report 478 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: that can be exported into a database so that people 479 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: can combine it with other data touch points like wingspan 480 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: and and agility and other kinds of measurables. Because again, 481 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: intelligence being a genetically stable trade, you can put it 482 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: into and lock it into UM that database and it 483 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: actually some teams that use us love the fact that 484 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: it is so stable because it does give you a 485 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: foundational peace. Does that mean I can't improve? Does that 486 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: mean I can't get better at the things you're measuring? 487 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: So UM, this becomes a very interesting debate. There are 488 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: some individuals who really love the theory of neural plasticity 489 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: that we can do brain training things like um. You know, 490 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: there was a company a few years ago that did 491 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: a wide, massive um publicity push about how to keep 492 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: your brain alert and strengthen your brain. And so there's 493 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: a lot of people who want to make that argument 494 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: about neural plasticity, and there's a lot of products out 495 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: there that rely on that UM philosophical approach. So some say, yes, UM, 496 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: I have a little bit more of a conservative belief 497 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: UM though it is possible. UM. But what you can 498 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: also do is if you say, you know what, I 499 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: don't believe in neural plasticity, and I do believe that 500 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: intelligence is a genetically stable trait, which is what the 501 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: largest body of literature UM has UM supporting. What you 502 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: can which you can do is you can do exactly 503 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: what we've been doing in classroom settings for hundreds of years, 504 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: which is, hey, we know that Johnny um struggles where 505 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: his letters reverse, you know, or we noticed that when 506 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: it comes to certain tasks like reading he needs extended 507 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: time things like that. So what you do is you 508 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: come up with you know really and it's just it's 509 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: easy stuff to implement. So a big thing that I'll 510 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: do with teams that will bring me on as a 511 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: consultant or or the teams that I'm embedded with, and 512 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: a much more greater level of depth, as we say Okay, 513 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: you know our point guard has a tendency to get 514 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: lost and when it comes to rotating, So what can 515 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: we do to help him out? So real concrete example 516 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: this was with a team out I worked with for years, 517 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: where we we had a point guard who when it 518 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: came to rotating a eighty degrees and then locating where 519 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: he was in relation to space, his teammates, his opponents, 520 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: everything else. It was, it was, it was a cognitive deficiency. 521 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: He just wasn't good at it. So what we did 522 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: was when there was that outlet pass, because he started 523 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: the offense, he started that attacker position, that's right. So 524 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: what we did was is we coached it up where 525 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: he would immediately sprint to the to the sidelines. Basically 526 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: we see the outlet pass and then only have to 527 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: rotate forty five degrees to nine degrees so that the 528 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: game kind of always stayed in front of him, and 529 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: those kinds of nuances you don't have to do any 530 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: brain training for. It's just an easy fix and a 531 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: slight correction costs you nothing in game player strategy and 532 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: actually speeds up things like a fast break. If we 533 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: are in a car washing, I come to you and 534 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: I want the works. What's it cost? Um, So seven 535 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: point five million dollars? I mean, okay, so this is 536 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: not for you. The Works is not for the guy 537 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: on the street and wants to get his kid tested. 538 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: It's that's an interesting number. I didn't I didn't know 539 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: what would be that much. But no, I'm just kidding 540 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: about that number, you know. I think the truth of 541 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: the matter is we're more of like a boutique kind 542 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: of thing than we are a Walmart kind of thing, 543 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: which is to say, we do have set prices, but 544 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: we also are very flexible in what teams want to 545 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: use us for into what depth. So if they just 546 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: want to report, there is a price point and that's 547 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: you know, in the hundreds of dollars per athletes. But 548 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: then there's also that consulting piece where like you said, um, 549 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,719 Speaker 1: the works if you will, and that's more like a 550 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: six figure kind of contract where teams will bring us 551 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: on board and um, we really do a great in 552 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: depth kind of analysis where we're with the team for 553 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: the whole year, attending games, participating in coach meetings. I mean, 554 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: we're fully engaged. So I think it's a hard question 555 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: to answer just because the nature of what's asked of 556 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: us by by the teams that have hired us really ranges. 557 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: There are some teams that have their own psychologist worrying 558 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: on board, and all they want is the reports. There's 559 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: some teams where all they just wanted the data. They 560 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: don't even care what the data means. They just want 561 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: the number because they're doing this, you know, kind of 562 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: big data analysis, number crunch. And then there's some other 563 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: teams that are really invested in, Hey, we want to 564 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: get better. Scott Goldman, founder of Athletic Intelligence Measures, thank 565 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. We've learned a lot. 566 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: We thank you. It's really been a lot of fun. 567 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: Really enjoyed the conversation. Takeaways this week. I'm impressed on 568 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: how you can train an athlete or anybody for that matter, 569 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: when you have to make a split second decision. And 570 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: Scott says that they're well equipped to do something like this, 571 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: especially with the special military forces. I'm impressed with the 572 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: number of teams that are catching on that it's not 573 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,719 Speaker 1: just about well the stop Watch and how hot does 574 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: he jump? Remember the old five tool guys, we still 575 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: have baseball folks, some of the older school still fighting analytics, 576 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: regular analytics that will tell you the trends, or look 577 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: at some different markers. Imagine the head's exploding and said, well, 578 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: we'd like to look at some other things to determine 579 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: who do we want to draft. These are multi multimillion 580 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: dollar investments. And if you get one wrong, sorry Greg 581 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: Odin over, Kevin Durant, something like that. If you get 582 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: it wrong, it sets your franchise back years. You just 583 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: can't afford to get it wrong. Bar, And if you're 584 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: not using every tool available, then you're just setting yourself 585 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: up for failure. Why not utilize something like this At 586 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: least you can track and see if down the road 587 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: they were accurate that it feels better to be a 588 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: number one than number five. I'll wear a number because 589 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: of Mike. We have a chance to go for three 590 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: in a row. Good numbers at a good time. And 591 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: let's first started wearing the number. I would just have 592 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: the floomberg business of sports. The number of the week time. 593 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 1: Now for the number of the weekend, you've got the 594 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: number I do. One thirty three. We're talking triple digits. 595 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: One thirty three the number of Twitter followers at Big Bar. 596 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: But as we say in all walks of life. Bar, 597 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: it's not the total number though you're climbing. That's at 598 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,399 Speaker 1: Big Bar Sports. Everybody. Let's see if we can get 599 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: this up at too fifty. I want to almost double 600 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: to fifty by the next show. Let's see how many 601 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: people actually go there. But who's following you, Michael bar 602 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: are you're telling me you know who? Alex Bowman is 603 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: one of the followers. The NASCAR driver in the in 604 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: the Elite Series in NASCAR, he's following. See, that's what 605 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's not about the number, it's not about 606 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: the total. It's about the who Alex. I've never heard 607 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: of Alex Bowman, but you in your world of NASCAR. 608 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: That's exciting. Alex Bowman is following. Where are the Frances 609 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: and the rest of the NASCAR. Where's the rest of 610 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: the NASCAR world. Let's get that Big Bar Sports. Everybody 611 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: out there, Come on, gang, help me out. You can 612 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: do it. I got another number just in case, two 613 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: five million, two five million World Cup view. What do 614 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: I don't know? I had no idea. They did this 615 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: story about the world's ten highest paid athletes. Collectively. They 616 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: made over a billion dollars in the past year, but 617 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: we're taking for this year. Floyd Mayweather number one on 618 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: the list, two five million in earning. But you know 619 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: what was interesting about this year's list. Let's see if 620 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 1: you get it. What was the most interesting point about 621 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: this year's list? Bar I would say, and it was 622 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: like four on highest earning or fifty whatever. It is. 623 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: No women, zero, nada, zero, no women, And I assume 624 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: it's you know, Serena took some time off being pregnant 625 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: and having her child, um Maria Sharapova was suspended. But 626 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: still yeah, but we gotta do some of the we 627 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: cannot come on improve. You've been listening to The Bloomberg 628 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: Business of Sports. We are here each and every week 629 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: at the same time, exploring the world of money and sports. 630 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: Michael bar on Twitter at Big Bar Sports Big Bar, 631 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: and I'm Scott Sashnik. You can follow me on Twitter 632 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: at Sasnik. Thanks for joining us, and please tune in 633 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: next week when we speak with the biggest and brightest 634 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: in the sports business industry. You're listening to The Bloomberg 635 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world and 636 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,720 Speaker 1: online as an Apple podcast on iTunes.