WEBVTT - Leslie Jones: How Milo Yiannopoulos Weaponized A Ghostbusters Remake 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:03.440 Welcome to another episode of Internet Hate Machine. I am 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:07.960 joined by my producer, Sophie Hey. Sophie heybrid It, and 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.280 we are so excited to be joined today by our 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:15.080 guests prop probably no PROP from his amazing podcast Hood 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.920 Politics or his amazing coffee company. Thank you so much 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.600 for being here. Dog. I can't wait to do this 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:25.920 and just be physically outraged by all this stuff. Y'all 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.000 gotta go through. Oh, you're about to be outraged. Before 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.240 we get into it, I have to ask you tweeted 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.600 about losing followers since must took over Twitter? What have you? 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:36.840 What has it been like to be on Twitter since 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.599 must took over? In your in your view, I mean honestly, 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.239 I was like, I don't want to get involved with 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.080 the like I don't want to feed I don't want 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.800 to feed it. So I was like, I honestly pulled 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.840 the like, well let's see, you know what I'm saying, 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:52.840 let me let me see what it is, and every 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:54.400 once in a while kind of go through my own 0:00:54.480 --> 0:01:01.040 like sort of bought purging whatever right. But definitely, at 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:05.600 first I saw a complete surge of like porn bots, 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.440 and then a complete surge of like these like anybody's 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:11.839 got like an American flag and patriot in their bio. 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:13.880 Like I just had a surge of that, and I 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:18.280 was like, why are y'all here? Right? And then yeah, 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.400 and then I just started like just handful of day, 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.360 you know, saying. So I'm down like five followers, which 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.320 is fine, but it was more like, dude, I used 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.480 to lose followers because of like what I said, not 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.679 just like out of nowhere, like what is this about? 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:35.360 I wish I could earn my losing, you know what 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.360 I'm saying, But definitely like I haven't seen a lot 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:43.840 of the like upticking like hate and like vitriol. I 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:45.920 guess because I was already a public figure. So I 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:48.160 feel like I've already seen like I already went through 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:49.920 my fair share of that, you know what I'm saying. 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.160 So to me, I'm like, like when they talk about 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.160 like crime wave, I'm like, crime is not up. I 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.680 lived through l A in the nineties. This is fine, right, 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.680 So so for me, I'm like, oh baby, just saying nothing. 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:06.200 But I will say I have enjoyed all the like 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:12.000 fake or the Twitter blue stuff and like people like 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.440 paying for their verification and creating trolls and then realizing 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:18.320 now you could click it and it could say like 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.400 not this fool is actually verified, or be like not 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.720 that food paid for it, you know, but generally like 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.079 it's it's kind of been, except for just the losing 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.240 of followers. Like for me personally, it's kind of in 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:33.600 the same Yeah, yeah, it's been. It's been. It's such 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.880 a weird spot that we're in. I completely agree with you. 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:41.119 I've been seeing an uptick in horn and pytose scams. 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.079 One of my favorite podcasters, Lazy Got was was hit 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.800 by like a crypto scammer, and I think we're in 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:53.520 this no man's land right now where scams and pranks 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.960 and trolls have I think really been empowered and emboldened. 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:01.080 I don't necessarily see Elon Musk making it seriously, and 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:02.680 I think it's a it's a real problem. I think 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.480 it can really you know, open up the platform to 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.680 be mifused. He definitely has the like the way the 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:10.799 way I've been linking thinking about it is like this 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.799 fool is still a seventh grader, right and being like 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.160 I can jump off that roof and then like all 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.400 the homies being like, bro, you don't have to jump 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:22.919 off the roof that it's cool, Like why you feel 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:24.240 like you gotta do that? No, I could do it, 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.639 And the homes are like, all right, do it. You 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.760 know what I'm saying. Now that's full climbed on the 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:33.080 roof and it's like, oh shit, niggie, okay, do it 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.000 like you're gonna if you're gonna do it, do it, 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.280 you know what I'm saying, and him realizing like I 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:40.560 immediately read it's it's it's Ron Burgundy jumping into the 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.920 bear trap, you know what I'm saying, and being like, 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.840 I immediately regret this decision. And to me, it's like 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.680 I will say, my Twitter experience, maybe not my personal one, 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.960 but my like as a user have been the scamps 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.800 have been so funny to me, like seeing people like 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.040 all the other fake Elon Musk like accounts, the fake 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:03.520 Lebron James account and just and wondering how, Like I 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:05.440 think we talked about this before in the episode we 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.560 had with politics, Like if you would just take like 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.920 an extra second to like once you see the name 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.240 and the check and then just read the person's app 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:19.240 mentioned their actual handle, and you're like, oh, this is 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.800 a joke, you know, and just or like it'll be 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.800 it was like Lebron James with a Z at the end, 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.400 So I'm like, that's clearly not Lebron James. But people 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:31.320 don't do that though, time to do that. Yeah, And 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.640 I think where we're at right now is the funny 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:39.960 stories are what are getting pressed right now? Yeah, but right, 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.760 and that's what's that's what's you know, forward facing. But 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:49.440 in reality, like clearly security and safety or not priority. 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.760 And as we know from the show, the people that 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.159 are going to be affected from this most are marginalized people. 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.839 And uh, that ship stuck and and that's the it. Yeah, 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.680 that's that intersection man, right, Like like you said, it's 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.880 like like obviously this the show is about the experience 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.640 of like marginalized you know, specifically women of color, and 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.520 it's like of course on Mars List, but I'm also 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.680 not a woman of color, so I'm gonna have a 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.080 different experience. And I think that, yeah, like that that 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.840 it's important that you know, That's why I'm glad this 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:23.240 show is happening, you know what I mean, because it's 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:28.920 important to like, so yeah, it's perfect. Yeah, this may 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.320 mean my experience, Yeah, this may gonna be my experience 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.360 because I'm definitely like a lot of the stuff that 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.320 I did, like even you know, surviving my upbringing was 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.560 like I was very good at staying out of stuff. 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:41.160 Like I'm like, yeah, I just don't. I just stay 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.159 out of it unless I need to be in it, 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:47.320 you know what I'm saying, until like you know, somebody 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.880 turns turns to me, like even like you know, to 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.600 carry the metaphor like you know, if it's a if 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.040 it's a if it's a woman of color, like I'm 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:56.880 gonna stay out of it until she looks at me 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.920 like hey, youn say something. It's like, right, I'm gonna 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.800 break this nigger's jaw, like just you, I'm not gonna 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:05.440 move until you tell me. You know what I'm saying, Like, 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.080 if you tell me, then let's go. But if not, 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.560 I'm like, oh, she got it, you know what I'm saying, 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.960 Like I stat like I'm usually not worried, like oh 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.039 she got a she fing a drag y'all, you know. 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.159 And and and for me, it's like I'm I'm ready 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.600 for the show, which is what what which I love 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.240 about this Leslie Jones episode because I don't know if 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.800 we're not supposed to reveal that yet, but like I 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.080 was like in that hole. I remember that saga and 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.760 I was like, yeah, I was like she dragging them 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:36.080 and it was funny. I remember how it was weird 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.320 and random to me, where I was like I don't 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.279 know when it started, like how all this started or 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:45.080 why her. I was like did she do? Like why 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.560 are y'all this seems so it seems so out of 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.400 nowhere to me, like this is so random, and but 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.800 I also knew she was very funny. And for me, 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.039 I was like, she like, y'all picked on the wrong 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.600 person because I'm like, she forn a drag, y'all. And 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:07.520 to me, I was the fact that like she wasn't like, man, 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.120 I'm so sorry, Dave, Like why is everybody picking on me? 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.880 She was like nigga, your mama got funny feet, you 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.120 know what I'm saying. Like, and I was like, you know, 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.680 fuck you your head pointy, and I'm like she's I 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.320 was like to me, I was like, okay, y'all, look y'all, 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.840 y'all to poked the bull, you got the wrong one. 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.200 She not the one. And to me it was funny. 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.000 Well what was funny was her the way that she 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.960 was dragging them back. It wasn't funny what was happening 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:37.040 to her. But her answers were like, we Leslie Jones 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.320 is like one of the funniest people. She's one of 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.160 the She's just there. And I was like, I understand 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.680 what y'all problem with her is. She's hilarious, Like, but 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:50.040 what what's the problem. Okay, this is a perfect segue. 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.760 The problem this is her. I could not have set 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.640 the segway up better. So let's get into it. Okay. 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.440 So on the heels and our last few episodes, we 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.640 were talking about gamer Gate and all of these tensions 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:07.720 around marginalized folks. I guess I would say the perception 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:12.200 that there invading these spaces that have been traditionally thought 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.880 of as like very white and very well right video games, tech, 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.480 and film. So you have all of these like largely 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.520 white dudes who are frustrated and angry that they feel 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.600 like they're being kind of threatened in these spaces. Just 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.920 the idea of like someone who's on a white dude 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.840 entering these spaces and thing in these spaces. And so 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.160 enter one of our major players for this conversation, Steve Bannon. 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.839 I know, all right, how this starts at Steve Bannon. 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.040 It starts with Steve Bannon. We got, we got, we gotta. 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.079 You're probably thinking, like we're talking about Leslie Jones, where 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:46.960 I was trying at Steve Bannon. And it's because Steve 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.839 Bannon was an early figure who really saw what a 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:55.960 powerful force these frustrated, disaffected, you know, rangel threatened white 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.880 guys could be and he thinks, Wow, we need to 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.600 harness this and web and eyes and consolidate their political power. 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:04.120 So it sounds a little bit about why that is. 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:05.720 It's gonna get a little I'll breathe through this. It's 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.120 gonna get a little bit technical. I'm gonna warrn folks, 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.000 but I found this fascinating and if you let me, 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.520 I feel like we need this part bridget Like I 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:19.360 feel the entire technical timeline of this higher mess. Yeah, okay, 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.560 so let's do it. So you might be thinking, why 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.360 did Steve Bannon, like, why was he mixed up with 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.240 all of these male gamers. Well, it's because he saw 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:31.679 the power of these gamers firsthand himself. Before Bannon was 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.960 in the Trump White House or possibly maybe going to jail, 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.840 he was a successful Wall Street dude. In two thousand five, 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.640 Steve Bannon cooked up with a Hong Kong based startup 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.360 called Internet Gaming Entertainment or i g i GE was 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.079 his company that was making millions and millions of dollars 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:52.360 through selling virtual goods for real money within video games 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.800 like ever Test or World of Warcraft? Did you ever 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.400 play any of those games? Bro? I Once, once the 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:03.120 remotes went from like four to like eight, I was out, 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.760 literally literally just assume the dad responds from Prop on 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.480 certain things like getting at the getting When Prop is 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:11.560 like Yama said, out of this, I was like, okay, dad, 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.880 um yeah yeah, but yeah yeah, not for real. I 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.560 was like yeah, this game like once, it was like 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:23.600 you know, I checked out pretty early on because I 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.520 was like, man, it's too much, and because it was like, man, 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.079 I'm already into so many niches, Like I'm already like, 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.000 you know, neck deep in coffee, I'm neck deep in 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.280 hip hop, and especially at that time, I'm like, I 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.600 mean you the beat starts, I'll tell you what machine 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.840 they used, what side chain compression? Where this rapper from 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.360 you know, other side project. I was so deep into 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:49.000 a niche already that I was like, man, I got 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.120 time to learn it. Yeah, you don't need another rabbit hole. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.600 So I was like, I can't keep up dog. Yeah. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.600 So essentially what this company i g E. Was doing 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:01.400 is selling these like in game capes or wands or 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:04.920 tokens that would allow players to pay real money to 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.840 immediately level up within the game, rather than having to 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:09.480 work their way up to a certain level. So if 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:13.040 you if you ever played games that involve levels, some people, 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.440 you know, if you have money to spare but not 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.640 a lot of time, you might pay to just like 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:21.959 enter the game at a higher level. I G E. 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.000 Was not the first company to do this. It's actually 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.320 a common practice called gold farming, where low paid workers 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.000 in places like China will play these games like World 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.520 of Warcraft for hours to acquire what they call gold 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.000 or currency within the game and then sell it to 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:40.000 other players. So the problem with this is that it's 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.240 not totally it was at the time, it was not 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:46.079 totally legal. It was actually prohibited by the companies that 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.200 make the games, and so it was sort of in 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:52.200 this legal gray area. And Steve Bannon came on too 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.560 I G E. To try to turn this from you know, 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.280 a practice that existed in a legal gray area to 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.280 really legitimize it by selling the companies that made these 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.760 video games on the idea that players would be willing 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.720 to spend like real money to level up in their 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.120 game play in this way. Um, I know we're talking 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.080 about like gaming and video games, but this ship was 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.560 like big business bandoned that Holman Sex to invest ten 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.600 million dollars in the company. I g e. No, I'm 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.360 like this. This the type of stuff that like also 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.080 turned me off with video games. I was like, wait, 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.880 I gotta I need to buy this sword. I'm good 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.560 exactly like I have to spend my real money on 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.800 a virtual sword. And the kind of game is this? 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.480 The game don't come with what I need? I gotta 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.400 buy this now, I'm good totally. I mean you're you're 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.560 not alone in this. And so KA head as game 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:48.880 game like what kind of what what out of the 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.680 product can you buy and just comes not put together 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:54.520 like with not every like what I don't have everything 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.600 I need even though I bought it. Now I'm good anyway, 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.559 going when you go to the i KA show room 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:00.400 and you see the dresser I'll put the other and 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.760 then you buy it and it comes in that flat 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.480 box like, wait a minute, wait a minute, what is this? 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:13.520 I bought a couch, what is this box? So Steve Bannon, 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:15.880 he was really brought on to be the adult in 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.120 the room in this video game company, right, he was 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.240 gonna be the money man who was gonna get all 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:24.559 this sweet sweet goldman SAX financing, and also get the 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.560 companies that made video games on board with the idea 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.080 that they should be in the business of selling this 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.440 this this pay to play kind of scheme with gaming. 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.400 His first big fish was a Blizzard. They make the 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.120 game World of Warcraft and back in two thousand and five, Like, 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.840 this was the game I was in college in two 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:43.840 thousand and five, Like I played it a little bit 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.400 because my then boyfriend whole a whole long story. But 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.160 then boyfriend was obsessed with it, and I was like, oh, 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.440 learn to play this game. So why can you know, 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.160 connect with him. I'm not surprised that of all the 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:58.520 video game companies to come into the story that it's 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.640 Blizzard because Blizzard has Activision. Blizzard has so many lawsuits. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:09.439 Oh my god, many lawsuits. Yeah, so many, Like still 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.840 like still this is still happening. This is like where 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.920 you go to like a place, you know what I'm saying, 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.199 A whole bunch of laptops in your computers and you're 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.400 playing World War crap. I remember walking in and being like, yeah, 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.600 I'm good, just like I'm just here for the coffee. 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.920 But I'm not trying to hang out with you. I 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.200 got coffee. I am sad to say that. You just 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:35.120 described of an environment where I spent an inordinate amount 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.680 of time in college, not because I particularly enjoyed it 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:40.760 or wanted to be there, because I thought that's how 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:45.400 you got like dudes to be interested in you. I'm 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.080 really enjoying being at this Land party. I don't want 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.240 to be home watching Real World and listening to my carry. 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:55.800 I'm having a great time. I know it wasn't It 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.160 wasn't hang with us, man, it wasn't great. You're come 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:05.320 to this open Michael. So, Steve Bannon is his big 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.280 fish as Blizzard. He's hoping that he can get these 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:11.400 executives on board, and in fact it was quite the opposite. 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.520 Blizzard executives were not on board with this idea of 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.040 having users pay to level up within the games, and 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.400 in May of two thousand and six, they actually cracked 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.640 down on that scheme, calling it cheating, and they put 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.520 out a press release saying that they had banned over 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.800 thirty accounts on their games who were engaging in that practice. 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.360 I G E and their suppliers suffered a huge loss 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:35.080 after this crackdown. He was losing five thousand dollars a month, 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.280 and so this was like a huge like they were 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.320 hemorrhaging money because of this this crackdown. And something to 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.560 know about gamers is that they really hated this pay 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:50.560 to play scheme. Gamers got organized, they you know, ended 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.120 up delivering another big blow to I g S business. 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.800 World of Warcraft users actually sued I G E. In 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.640 two thousand and seven, a gamer in Florida lodged a 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.280 class action lawsuit against I G E. M. According to 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.360 The Washington Post, the lawsuit alleged that I G E 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.240 had received tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.000 of dollars selling the World of Warcraft of virtual property 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:16.280 or currency generated by cheap labor in third world countries. So, 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.880 you know, and like what's interesting about this is that 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.960 I G E settled that lawsuit, and as part of 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.440 that settlement, they promised not to sell virtual currency in 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.560 World of Warcraft for five years. Uh Bannon then becomes 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.840 the CEO of I G E. In two thousand seven. 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.040 He moves the company kind of away from this gold 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.560 farming scheme to focus on things like gaming chat rooms 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.240 and gaming websites, some of which he had acquired during 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.640 this like gold farming operation. These in these chat rooms 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.720 full of gamers, full of people who were passionate about gaming. 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.840 They were super super vocal about how much they hated 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.640 I G e. S pay to play schemes. You know, 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.640 they were Something to know about gamers is that they 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.080 kind of consider themselves to be kind of I guess 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.160 values based, you know. They felt that it was unfair 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.640 and that like this scheme went against what they saw 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:15.120 is the egalitarian spirit of gameplay. They were fervent. They 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.359 used these websites that Bannon was running to organize and 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.600 the pressure companies who were operating these these games not 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.359 to partner with I G. E. And Steve Bannon. He 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:27.680 saw all of this. He saw the ways that these 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.800 gamers hate and pay to play. They were successful in 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.880 rallying each other to keep you know, gold farming out 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:38.280 of their games. He saw firsthand that gamers were this big, powerful, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:43.000 passionate community that would really dig in around an issue 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.320 that they felt highlighted their shared values. In a book 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.960 called The Devil's Bargain by journalist Joshua Green about the 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:52.840 rise of Bannon and Trump's presidency, Bannon said, these guys, 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:57.400 these rootless white males, had monster power. So he definitely 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.920 early on was like, wait, these gamers, they're serious, yo. 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.520 This is like two things I camp on. One is 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:05.600 like I still don't understand the five year number where 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:09.880 it's like we'll stop selling for five years. It's like, no, fam, no, 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.880 it's you can't do this. What do you mean Okay, well, okay, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.679 we'll chill for a little bit. Like, no, fam, you 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.520 can't know. Okay, we'll chill. We'll chill, no problem. So 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.080 I'm like, where did this five year number come from? 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.639 That you just agree to stop doing something illegal just 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.560 for five years. And then secondly, um, it's definitely like 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.520 an interesting like things to witness, like the birth of 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.600 a villain. It's like when you're like, oh, where this was? 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.000 When this is like attack of the Clones. It's like 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.600 when the sixth when the when the dark Side switches 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.719 and all the clones become evil. Like I was like, 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:47.840 Oh my god, this is it. You just turned them 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.760 into stormtroopers. This is the moment. Oh my god. That's 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.720 such a So that's such a good analogy for where 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.359 this conversation goes, because it's so it's so true how 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:03.480 you can take this disaffected group and really successfully radicalized 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.520 them and turned them against a common enemy, even if 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.879 it's not necessarily a common enemy that they had before 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:14.000 all of that. No, you just turn them in stormtroopers. Yeah, 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.640 such a such a good comparison. And so Bannon takes 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:18.760 over at bright Burt News in twelve. If you don't 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:20.840 know what Brightburt News is, it's an extremist right wing 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.119 media site that Steve Bannon himself once declared as quote 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.960 the platform for the alt right. And I really have 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.280 to give it to Steve Bannon here because he's very savvy. 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.600 He sees the potential in building out Bright Bart into 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:38.120 this digitally savvy, plugged in outlet with a young audience base. 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.240 And he also sees huge potential in marrying what he 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.679 learned during his time running gaming chat rooms with i 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.640 GE with this toxic white supremacist ideology. He's like, wait 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.560 a minute. If I combine these things, my power like 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.600 this will be very powerful, and he was right, yeah, 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.120 he yeah. Another thing, like if I'm gonna give them 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.560 any credit, is the fact that like he's not, He's 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.400 very upfront of what he's doing. He's like, not easier, 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.800 this is all right. These are white boys, and I 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.320 can feed them racism and they'll make us they'll give 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.560 us power. Ye, that's what I'm doing exactly. It's very 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:16.360 open about it. But he's like, yeah, that's what I'm doing. 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:19.880 So this is where another major player in the harassment 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.160 of Leslie Jones emerges. Milo your novelist. We've talked about 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.920 this a little bit, Sophie and I um. On October, 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.400 ripe Bart launches a tech vertical that will focus on 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:34.399 Internet culture and video games, and Steve Bannon recruits Milo 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.840 to run it as tech editor. Most of the articles 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.280 like It's funny because I when I was doing the 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.119 research for this, I was like, what did Milo have 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.359 to do with tech? But actually I was said, correct, 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.960 he actually did have a background as a tech journalist 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.200 before all of this. The website that Milo founded, called 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:54.920 The Colonel, was actually acquired by the Tech website The 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.560 Daily Dot, so he he actually did have some like 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:02.840 bona fides in actual tech journalism. However, when he got 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:07.040 to Bripe bart I think that's calling the stuff that 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.880 he was writing tech is a little generous because it's 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:15.719 all kind of framed as these conversations. It's all very reactionary, right, 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:17.680 and so all the articles that he writes on Ripe 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.520 bart On this tech article are not really about tech 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:23.639 so insomuch as they're about all of these different ways 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.959 that white men are being pushed out of technology and 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:30.240