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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Internet Hate Machine. I am

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Speaker 1: joined by my producer, Sophie Hey. Sophie heybrid It, and

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Speaker 1: we are so excited to be joined today by our

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Speaker 1: guests prop probably no PROP from his amazing podcast Hood

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Speaker 1: Politics or his amazing coffee company. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for being here. Dog. I can't wait to do this

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Speaker 1: and just be physically outraged by all this stuff. Y'all

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Speaker 1: gotta go through. Oh, you're about to be outraged. Before

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Speaker 1: we get into it, I have to ask you tweeted

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Speaker 1: about losing followers since must took over Twitter? What have you?

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Speaker 1: What has it been like to be on Twitter since

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Speaker 1: must took over? In your in your view, I mean honestly,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don't want to get involved with

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Speaker 1: the like I don't want to feed I don't want

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Speaker 1: to feed it. So I was like, I honestly pulled

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Speaker 1: the like, well let's see, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: let me let me see what it is, and every

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Speaker 1: once in a while kind of go through my own

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Speaker 1: like sort of bought purging whatever right. But definitely, at

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Speaker 1: first I saw a complete surge of like porn bots,

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Speaker 1: and then a complete surge of like these like anybody's

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Speaker 1: got like an American flag and patriot in their bio.

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Speaker 1: Like I just had a surge of that, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, why are y'all here? Right? And then yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then I just started like just handful of day,

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Speaker 1: you know, saying. So I'm down like five followers, which

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Speaker 1: is fine, but it was more like, dude, I used

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Speaker 1: to lose followers because of like what I said, not

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Speaker 1: just like out of nowhere, like what is this about?

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Speaker 1: I wish I could earn my losing, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, But definitely like I haven't seen a lot

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Speaker 1: of the like upticking like hate and like vitriol. I

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Speaker 1: guess because I was already a public figure. So I

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Speaker 1: feel like I've already seen like I already went through

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Speaker 1: my fair share of that, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: So to me, I'm like, like when they talk about

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Speaker 1: like crime wave, I'm like, crime is not up. I

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Speaker 1: lived through l A in the nineties. This is fine, right,

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Speaker 1: So so for me, I'm like, oh baby, just saying nothing.

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Speaker 1: But I will say I have enjoyed all the like

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Speaker 1: fake or the Twitter blue stuff and like people like

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Speaker 1: paying for their verification and creating trolls and then realizing

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Speaker 1: now you could click it and it could say like

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Speaker 1: not this fool is actually verified, or be like not

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Speaker 1: that food paid for it, you know, but generally like

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Speaker 1: it's it's kind of been, except for just the losing

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Speaker 1: of followers. Like for me personally, it's kind of in

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Speaker 1: the same Yeah, yeah, it's been. It's been. It's such

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Speaker 1: a weird spot that we're in. I completely agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I've been seeing an uptick in horn and pytose scams.

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite podcasters, Lazy Got was was hit

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Speaker 1: by like a crypto scammer, and I think we're in

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Speaker 1: this no man's land right now where scams and pranks

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Speaker 1: and trolls have I think really been empowered and emboldened.

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily see Elon Musk making it seriously, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a real problem. I think

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Speaker 1: it can really you know, open up the platform to

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Speaker 1: be mifused. He definitely has the like the way the

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Speaker 1: way I've been linking thinking about it is like this

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Speaker 1: fool is still a seventh grader, right and being like

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Speaker 1: I can jump off that roof and then like all

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Speaker 1: the homies being like, bro, you don't have to jump

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Speaker 1: off the roof that it's cool, Like why you feel

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Speaker 1: like you gotta do that? No, I could do it,

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Speaker 1: And the homes are like, all right, do it. You

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Now that's full climbed on the

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Speaker 1: roof and it's like, oh shit, niggie, okay, do it

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Speaker 1: like you're gonna if you're gonna do it, do it,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, and him realizing like I

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Speaker 1: immediately read it's it's it's Ron Burgundy jumping into the

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Speaker 1: bear trap, you know what I'm saying, and being like,

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Speaker 1: I immediately regret this decision. And to me, it's like

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Speaker 1: I will say, my Twitter experience, maybe not my personal one,

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Speaker 1: but my like as a user have been the scamps

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Speaker 1: have been so funny to me, like seeing people like

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Speaker 1: all the other fake Elon Musk like accounts, the fake

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Speaker 1: Lebron James account and just and wondering how, Like I

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Speaker 1: think we talked about this before in the episode we

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Speaker 1: had with politics, Like if you would just take like

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Speaker 1: an extra second to like once you see the name

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Speaker 1: and the check and then just read the person's app

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Speaker 1: mentioned their actual handle, and you're like, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: a joke, you know, and just or like it'll be

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Speaker 1: it was like Lebron James with a Z at the end,

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, that's clearly not Lebron James. But people

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Speaker 1: don't do that though, time to do that. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I think where we're at right now is the funny

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Speaker 1: stories are what are getting pressed right now? Yeah, but right,

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Speaker 1: and that's what's that's what's you know, forward facing. But

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Speaker 1: in reality, like clearly security and safety or not priority.

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Speaker 1: And as we know from the show, the people that

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Speaker 1: are going to be affected from this most are marginalized people.

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Speaker 1: And uh, that ship stuck and and that's the it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that intersection man, right, Like like you said, it's

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Speaker 1: like like obviously this the show is about the experience

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Speaker 1: of like marginalized you know, specifically women of color, and

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Speaker 1: it's like of course on Mars List, but I'm also

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Speaker 1: not a woman of color, so I'm gonna have a

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Speaker 1: different experience. And I think that, yeah, like that that

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Speaker 1: it's important that you know, That's why I'm glad this

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Speaker 1: show is happening, you know what I mean, because it's

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Speaker 1: important to like, so yeah, it's perfect. Yeah, this may

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Speaker 1: mean my experience, Yeah, this may gonna be my experience

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Speaker 1: because I'm definitely like a lot of the stuff that

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Speaker 1: I did, like even you know, surviving my upbringing was

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Speaker 1: like I was very good at staying out of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm like, yeah, I just don't. I just stay

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Speaker 1: out of it unless I need to be in it,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, until like you know, somebody

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Speaker 1: turns turns to me, like even like you know, to

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Speaker 1: carry the metaphor like you know, if it's a if

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Speaker 1: it's a if it's a woman of color, like I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna stay out of it until she looks at me

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Speaker 1: like hey, youn say something. It's like, right, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: break this nigger's jaw, like just you, I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: move until you tell me. You know what I'm saying, Like,

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Speaker 1: if you tell me, then let's go. But if not,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, she got it, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: Like I stat like I'm usually not worried, like oh

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Speaker 1: she got a she fing a drag y'all, you know.

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Speaker 1: And and and for me, it's like I'm I'm ready

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Speaker 1: for the show, which is what what which I love

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Speaker 1: about this Leslie Jones episode because I don't know if

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Speaker 1: we're not supposed to reveal that yet, but like I

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Speaker 1: was like in that hole. I remember that saga and

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I was like she dragging them

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Speaker 1: and it was funny. I remember how it was weird

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Speaker 1: and random to me, where I was like I don't

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Speaker 1: know when it started, like how all this started or

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Speaker 1: why her. I was like did she do? Like why

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Speaker 1: are y'all this seems so it seems so out of

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Speaker 1: nowhere to me, like this is so random, and but

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Speaker 1: I also knew she was very funny. And for me,

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Speaker 1: I was like, she like, y'all picked on the wrong

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Speaker 1: person because I'm like, she forn a drag, y'all. And

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Speaker 1: to me, I was the fact that like she wasn't like, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, Dave, Like why is everybody picking on me?

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Speaker 1: She was like nigga, your mama got funny feet, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Like, and I was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: fuck you your head pointy, and I'm like she's I

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Speaker 1: was like to me, I was like, okay, y'all, look y'all,

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Speaker 1: y'all to poked the bull, you got the wrong one.

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Speaker 1: She not the one. And to me it was funny.

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Speaker 1: Well what was funny was her the way that she

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Speaker 1: was dragging them back. It wasn't funny what was happening

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Speaker 1: to her. But her answers were like, we Leslie Jones

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Speaker 1: is like one of the funniest people. She's one of

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Speaker 1: the She's just there. And I was like, I understand

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Speaker 1: what y'all problem with her is. She's hilarious, Like, but

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Speaker 1: what what's the problem. Okay, this is a perfect segue.

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Speaker 1: The problem this is her. I could not have set

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Speaker 1: the segway up better. So let's get into it. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So on the heels and our last few episodes, we

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Speaker 1: were talking about gamer Gate and all of these tensions

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Speaker 1: around marginalized folks. I guess I would say the perception

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Speaker 1: that there invading these spaces that have been traditionally thought

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Speaker 1: of as like very white and very well right video games, tech,

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Speaker 1: and film. So you have all of these like largely

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Speaker 1: white dudes who are frustrated and angry that they feel

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Speaker 1: like they're being kind of threatened in these spaces. Just

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Speaker 1: the idea of like someone who's on a white dude

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Speaker 1: entering these spaces and thing in these spaces. And so

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Speaker 1: enter one of our major players for this conversation, Steve Bannon.

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Speaker 1: I know, all right, how this starts at Steve Bannon.

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Speaker 1: It starts with Steve Bannon. We got, we got, we gotta.

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Speaker 1: You're probably thinking, like we're talking about Leslie Jones, where

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Speaker 1: I was trying at Steve Bannon. And it's because Steve

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Speaker 1: Bannon was an early figure who really saw what a

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Speaker 1: powerful force these frustrated, disaffected, you know, rangel threatened white

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Speaker 1: guys could be and he thinks, Wow, we need to

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Speaker 1: harness this and web and eyes and consolidate their political power.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds a little bit about why that is.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna get a little I'll breathe through this. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna get a little bit technical. I'm gonna warrn folks,

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Speaker 1: but I found this fascinating and if you let me,

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Speaker 1: I feel like we need this part bridget Like I

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Speaker 1: feel the entire technical timeline of this higher mess. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's do it. So you might be thinking, why

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Speaker 1: did Steve Bannon, like, why was he mixed up with

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Speaker 1: all of these male gamers. Well, it's because he saw

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Speaker 1: the power of these gamers firsthand himself. Before Bannon was

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Speaker 1: in the Trump White House or possibly maybe going to jail,

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Speaker 1: he was a successful Wall Street dude. In two thousand five,

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Speaker 1: Steve Bannon cooked up with a Hong Kong based startup

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Speaker 1: called Internet Gaming Entertainment or i g i GE was

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Speaker 1: his company that was making millions and millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: through selling virtual goods for real money within video games

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Speaker 1: like ever Test or World of Warcraft? Did you ever

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Speaker 1: play any of those games? Bro? I Once, once the

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Speaker 1: remotes went from like four to like eight, I was out,

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Speaker 1: literally literally just assume the dad responds from Prop on

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Speaker 1: certain things like getting at the getting When Prop is

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Speaker 1: like Yama said, out of this, I was like, okay, dad,

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Speaker 1: um yeah yeah, but yeah yeah, not for real. I

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Speaker 1: was like yeah, this game like once, it was like

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Speaker 1: you know, I checked out pretty early on because I

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Speaker 1: was like, man, it's too much, and because it was like, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm already into so many niches, Like I'm already like,

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Speaker 1: you know, neck deep in coffee, I'm neck deep in

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Speaker 1: hip hop, and especially at that time, I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: mean you the beat starts, I'll tell you what machine

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Speaker 1: they used, what side chain compression? Where this rapper from

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Speaker 1: you know, other side project. I was so deep into

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Speaker 1: a niche already that I was like, man, I got

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Speaker 1: time to learn it. Yeah, you don't need another rabbit hole.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, I can't keep up dog. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So essentially what this company i g E. Was doing

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Speaker 1: is selling these like in game capes or wands or

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Speaker 1: tokens that would allow players to pay real money to

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Speaker 1: immediately level up within the game, rather than having to

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Speaker 1: work their way up to a certain level. So if

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Speaker 1: you if you ever played games that involve levels, some people,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you have money to spare but not

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Speaker 1: a lot of time, you might pay to just like

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Speaker 1: enter the game at a higher level. I G E.

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Speaker 1: Was not the first company to do this. It's actually

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Speaker 1: a common practice called gold farming, where low paid workers

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Speaker 1: in places like China will play these games like World

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Speaker 1: of Warcraft for hours to acquire what they call gold

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Speaker 1: or currency within the game and then sell it to

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Speaker 1: other players. So the problem with this is that it's

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Speaker 1: not totally it was at the time, it was not

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Speaker 1: totally legal. It was actually prohibited by the companies that

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Speaker 1: make the games, and so it was sort of in

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Speaker 1: this legal gray area. And Steve Bannon came on too

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Speaker 1: I G E. To try to turn this from you know,

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Speaker 1: a practice that existed in a legal gray area to

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Speaker 1: really legitimize it by selling the companies that made these

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Speaker 1: video games on the idea that players would be willing

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Speaker 1: to spend like real money to level up in their

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Speaker 1: game play in this way. Um, I know we're talking

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Speaker 1: about like gaming and video games, but this ship was

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Speaker 1: like big business bandoned that Holman Sex to invest ten

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Speaker 1: million dollars in the company. I g e. No, I'm

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Speaker 1: like this. This the type of stuff that like also

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Speaker 1: turned me off with video games. I was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: I gotta I need to buy this sword. I'm good

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Speaker 1: exactly like I have to spend my real money on

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Speaker 1: a virtual sword. And the kind of game is this?

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Speaker 1: The game don't come with what I need? I gotta

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Speaker 1: buy this now, I'm good totally. I mean you're you're

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Speaker 1: not alone in this. And so KA head as game

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Speaker 1: game like what kind of what what out of the

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Speaker 1: product can you buy and just comes not put together

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Speaker 1: like with not every like what I don't have everything

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Speaker 1: I need even though I bought it. Now I'm good anyway,

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Speaker 1: going when you go to the i KA show room

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Speaker 1: and you see the dresser I'll put the other and

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Speaker 1: then you buy it and it comes in that flat

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Speaker 1: box like, wait a minute, wait a minute, what is this?

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Speaker 1: I bought a couch, what is this box? So Steve Bannon,

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Speaker 1: he was really brought on to be the adult in

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Speaker 1: the room in this video game company, right, he was

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Speaker 1: gonna be the money man who was gonna get all

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Speaker 1: this sweet sweet goldman SAX financing, and also get the

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Speaker 1: companies that made video games on board with the idea

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Speaker 1: that they should be in the business of selling this

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Speaker 1: this this pay to play kind of scheme with gaming.

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Speaker 1: His first big fish was a Blizzard. They make the

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Speaker 1: game World of Warcraft and back in two thousand and five, Like,

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Speaker 1: this was the game I was in college in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five, Like I played it a little bit

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Speaker 1: because my then boyfriend whole a whole long story. But

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Speaker 1: then boyfriend was obsessed with it, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: learn to play this game. So why can you know,

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Speaker 1: connect with him. I'm not surprised that of all the

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Speaker 1: video game companies to come into the story that it's

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Speaker 1: Blizzard because Blizzard has Activision. Blizzard has so many lawsuits.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, many lawsuits. Yeah, so many, Like still

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Speaker 1: like still this is still happening. This is like where

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Speaker 1: you go to like a place, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: A whole bunch of laptops in your computers and you're

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Speaker 1: playing World War crap. I remember walking in and being like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm good, just like I'm just here for the coffee.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not trying to hang out with you. I

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Speaker 1: got coffee. I am sad to say that. You just

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Speaker 1: described of an environment where I spent an inordinate amount

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Speaker 1: of time in college, not because I particularly enjoyed it

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Speaker 1: or wanted to be there, because I thought that's how

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Speaker 1: you got like dudes to be interested in you. I'm

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Speaker 1: really enjoying being at this Land party. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be home watching Real World and listening to my carry.

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Speaker 1: I'm having a great time. I know it wasn't It

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Speaker 1: wasn't hang with us, man, it wasn't great. You're come

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Speaker 1: to this open Michael. So, Steve Bannon is his big

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Speaker 1: fish as Blizzard. He's hoping that he can get these

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Speaker 1: executives on board, and in fact it was quite the opposite.

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Speaker 1: Blizzard executives were not on board with this idea of

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Speaker 1: having users pay to level up within the games, and

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Speaker 1: in May of two thousand and six, they actually cracked

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Speaker 1: down on that scheme, calling it cheating, and they put

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Speaker 1: out a press release saying that they had banned over

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Speaker 1: thirty accounts on their games who were engaging in that practice.

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Speaker 1: I G E and their suppliers suffered a huge loss

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Speaker 1: after this crackdown. He was losing five thousand dollars a month,

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Speaker 1: and so this was like a huge like they were

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Speaker 1: hemorrhaging money because of this this crackdown. And something to

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Speaker 1: know about gamers is that they really hated this pay

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Speaker 1: to play scheme. Gamers got organized, they you know, ended

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Speaker 1: up delivering another big blow to I g S business.

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Speaker 1: World of Warcraft users actually sued I G E. In

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, a gamer in Florida lodged a

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Speaker 1: class action lawsuit against I G E. M. According to

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Speaker 1: The Washington Post, the lawsuit alleged that I G E

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Speaker 1: had received tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars selling the World of Warcraft of virtual property

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Speaker 1: or currency generated by cheap labor in third world countries. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, and like what's interesting about this is that

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Speaker 1: I G E settled that lawsuit, and as part of

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Speaker 1: that settlement, they promised not to sell virtual currency in

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Speaker 1: World of Warcraft for five years. Uh Bannon then becomes

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Speaker 1: the CEO of I G E. In two thousand seven.

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Speaker 1: He moves the company kind of away from this gold

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Speaker 1: farming scheme to focus on things like gaming chat rooms

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Speaker 1: and gaming websites, some of which he had acquired during

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Speaker 1: this like gold farming operation. These in these chat rooms

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Speaker 1: full of gamers, full of people who were passionate about gaming.

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Speaker 1: They were super super vocal about how much they hated

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Speaker 1: I G e. S pay to play schemes. You know,

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Speaker 1: they were Something to know about gamers is that they

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Speaker 1: kind of consider themselves to be kind of I guess

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Speaker 1: values based, you know. They felt that it was unfair

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Speaker 1: and that like this scheme went against what they saw

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Speaker 1: is the egalitarian spirit of gameplay. They were fervent. They

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Speaker 1: used these websites that Bannon was running to organize and

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Speaker 1: the pressure companies who were operating these these games not

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Speaker 1: to partner with I G. E. And Steve Bannon. He

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Speaker 1: saw all of this. He saw the ways that these

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Speaker 1: gamers hate and pay to play. They were successful in

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Speaker 1: rallying each other to keep you know, gold farming out

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Speaker 1: of their games. He saw firsthand that gamers were this big, powerful,

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Speaker 1: passionate community that would really dig in around an issue

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Speaker 1: that they felt highlighted their shared values. In a book

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Speaker 1: called The Devil's Bargain by journalist Joshua Green about the

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Speaker 1: rise of Bannon and Trump's presidency, Bannon said, these guys,

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Speaker 1: these rootless white males, had monster power. So he definitely

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Speaker 1: early on was like, wait, these gamers, they're serious, yo.

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Speaker 1: This is like two things I camp on. One is

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Speaker 1: like I still don't understand the five year number where

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Speaker 1: it's like we'll stop selling for five years. It's like, no, fam, no,

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Speaker 1: it's you can't do this. What do you mean Okay, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll chill for a little bit. Like, no, fam, you

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Speaker 1: can't know. Okay, we'll chill. We'll chill, no problem. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, where did this five year number come from?

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Speaker 1: That you just agree to stop doing something illegal just

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Speaker 1: for five years. And then secondly, um, it's definitely like

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Speaker 1: an interesting like things to witness, like the birth of

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Speaker 1: a villain. It's like when you're like, oh, where this was?

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Speaker 1: When this is like attack of the Clones. It's like

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Speaker 1: when the sixth when the when the dark Side switches

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Speaker 1: and all the clones become evil. Like I was like,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is it. You just turned them

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Speaker 1: into stormtroopers. This is the moment. Oh my god. That's

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Speaker 1: such a So that's such a good analogy for where

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Speaker 1: this conversation goes, because it's so it's so true how

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Speaker 1: you can take this disaffected group and really successfully radicalized

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Speaker 1: them and turned them against a common enemy, even if

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Speaker 1: it's not necessarily a common enemy that they had before

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Speaker 1: all of that. No, you just turn them in stormtroopers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: such a such a good comparison. And so Bannon takes

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Speaker 1: over at bright Burt News in twelve. If you don't

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Speaker 1: know what Brightburt News is, it's an extremist right wing

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Speaker 1: media site that Steve Bannon himself once declared as quote

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Speaker 1: the platform for the alt right. And I really have

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Speaker 1: to give it to Steve Bannon here because he's very savvy.

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Speaker 1: He sees the potential in building out Bright Bart into

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Speaker 1: this digitally savvy, plugged in outlet with a young audience base.

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Speaker 1: And he also sees huge potential in marrying what he

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Speaker 1: learned during his time running gaming chat rooms with i

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Speaker 1: GE with this toxic white supremacist ideology. He's like, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute. If I combine these things, my power like

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Speaker 1: this will be very powerful, and he was right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he yeah. Another thing, like if I'm gonna give them

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Speaker 1: any credit, is the fact that like he's not, He's

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Speaker 1: very upfront of what he's doing. He's like, not easier,

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Speaker 1: this is all right. These are white boys, and I

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Speaker 1: can feed them racism and they'll make us they'll give

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Speaker 1: us power. Ye, that's what I'm doing exactly. It's very

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Speaker 1: open about it. But he's like, yeah, that's what I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: So this is where another major player in the harassment

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Speaker 1: of Leslie Jones emerges. Milo your novelist. We've talked about

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Speaker 1: this a little bit, Sophie and I um. On October,

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Speaker 1: ripe Bart launches a tech vertical that will focus on

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Speaker 1: Internet culture and video games, and Steve Bannon recruits Milo

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Speaker 1: to run it as tech editor. Most of the articles

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Speaker 1: like It's funny because I when I was doing the

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Speaker 1: research for this, I was like, what did Milo have

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Speaker 1: to do with tech? But actually I was said, correct,

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Speaker 1: he actually did have a background as a tech journalist

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Speaker 1: before all of this. The website that Milo founded, called

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Speaker 1: The Colonel, was actually acquired by the Tech website The

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Speaker 1: Daily Dot, so he he actually did have some like

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Speaker 1: bona fides in actual tech journalism. However, when he got

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Speaker 1: to Bripe bart I think that's calling the stuff that

395
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 1: he was writing tech is a little generous because it's

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Speaker 1: all kind of framed as these conversations. It's all very reactionary, right,

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Speaker 1: and so all the articles that he writes on Ripe

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Speaker 1: bart On this tech article are not really about tech

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Speaker 1: so insomuch as they're about all of these different ways

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Speaker 1: that white men are being pushed out of technology and

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Speaker 1: video games and culture, which is just nonsense. Like every

402
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: article is about, you know, making fun of feminists or

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Speaker 1: women or fat people. Like it's all very reactionary. But

404
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 1: I guess like that's the kind of tech storytelling that

405
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 1: that Milo and Steve Bannon were interested in because they

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Speaker 1: know this is going to get these young white males

407
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Speaker 1: round up at works. So Milo has a lot of

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Speaker 1: appeal with exactly the kind of young men that Bannon

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Speaker 1: is looking to port as a resource and weaponize. My

410
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: loom is young, he's active online, and most importantly, he

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Speaker 1: revels in being offensive and insulting people. And I have

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Speaker 1: to say, just like a lot of gamers, like if

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Speaker 1: you look like video games. I'm not saying all gamers

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Speaker 1: do this by a wide margin, but that's certainly one

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Speaker 1: of the cultural nuances of gaming, is like, you know,

416
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Speaker 1: calling each other slurs and talking shit right like, and

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Speaker 1: that's part of it. I could see like gamers being

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Speaker 1: into him, but I don't think like Milo probably doesn't

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Speaker 1: give a shit about gamers. I was like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I can't see him. Yeah, He's like exactly so you're

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Speaker 1: you're exactly right, Mileo doesn't give a shit about gamers

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Speaker 1: or any of this stuff. The same year that Milo

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Speaker 1: starts up at right Bart, we see the rise of

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Speaker 1: another big figure who loves being online and revels in

425
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: being Can you guess who I'm talking about? Donald Trump?

426
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: Trump announces his bid for presidency. The same year editor thanks, Hey,

427
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: my my socials are I'm I'm done. I'm done. I'm not. Yeah,

428
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: So Bannon told Joshua Green, the journalist who wrote that

429
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: book about his rise, quote, I realized Milo could connect

430
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: with these kids right away. You can activate that army

431
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 1: they come in through gamer Gate or whatever else, and

432
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: then they can get turned onto politics and Trump. So,

433
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: as Sophie said, Milo does not give a ship about

434
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: gamers or video games, and actually, early on in his

435
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 1: career he sent a lot of time mocking video gamers

436
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: and belittling them. But Milo does understand that gamers are

437
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: an easily riled up, easily stoked audience, and that he

438
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: can stoke their sense of victimization around things like gamber

439
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: Gate or threats posed by like woke PC culture and

440
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: basically get them on board for anything. I'm still trying

441
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: to like figure out how they figured out to go

442
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: from games to racism to voting Trump in the office

443
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: that thread, although it's now in hindsight you're like, oh, yeah,

444
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, but totally how did you?

445
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: Because they saw white male rage and like mass because

446
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: because I'm just like nerds, Yeah, I'm saying I like, like,

447
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: you know, in the most like you know, if I'm

448
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: going to be as basic as possible, I'm like, are

449
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,959
Speaker 1: you thinking like and the nerds is really riled up?

450
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: I bet you they can make somebody president like how

451
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: you Yes? Basically yes, yeah, And again I have to

452
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: really give it to Steve Bannon because I don't think

453
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: a lot of people that like who like it really

454
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 1: does take a kind of savvy guy to see that.

455
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: And so, as you said, you know, when you look

456
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: at Milo's writing, it kind of becomes clear how he

457
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: was doing this um dey not really being involved in

458
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: gamer Gate. Milo writes about it constantly, and he really

459
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: frames it as these PC leftist culture police attacking these poor,

460
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 1: powerless gamers who don't have any social capital. But paradoxically,

461
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: his writing also really flatters gamers in these like over

462
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: the top ways. He writes constantly about how they are,

463
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 1: you know, have this unchecked, unseen power that only he sees.

464
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: I went back and read a functon of Milo's writing,

465
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: which was not not so pleasant but not fun at all.

466
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: But you really, the radicalization tactics are super clear. He

467
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: speaks to their grievances of this audience and then connects

468
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: those grievances to these big politicized boogeyman and tells them, Oh, Trump,

469
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 1: who Milo refers to as Daddy pretty often. I know

470
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: it's bad, it's bad. He tells them Trump is the

471
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: answer to their disaffection. And you know, Trump probably doesn't

472
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: give a ship about gaming or game journalists him. But

473
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like a mama's He didn't even know

474
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: what does having Exactly yeah, anyway, exactly so Trump he

475
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: doesn't care about ethics and gaming journalism or gaming or

476
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: any of that, but he does often attack the you know,

477
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: crooked media. He does talk about jailing journalists. So you

478
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: can sort of see how these grievances that these gamers

479
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: had are kind of being stoked and then replaced by

480
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: these other political grievances. Let's take a look at him.

481
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: Of Milo's writing from Ripe Art in twenty fourteen, right

482
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: after a gamer Gate, he wrote quote, it's easy to

483
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: mock video gamers as dorky loaners in yellowing underpants. Indeed,

484
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: in previous columns, I've done it myself. But the more

485
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: you learn about the latest scandal in the games industry,

486
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: the more us heart to sympathize with the frustrated male stereotype,

487
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: because an army of sociopathic feminist programmers and campaigners, abetted

488
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: by achingly politically correct American tech bloggers, are terrorizing the

489
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: entire community, lying, bullying, and manipulating their way around the

490
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: Internet for profit and attention. So you can sort of

491
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: see how like he is able to stoke these concerns

492
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: and then politicize them in like a very particular way.

493
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: He goes on to say, quote, gamers should concentrate on

494
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: the very real concerns they have had for a decade

495
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: with a press that swamped with the discredited far left

496
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: ideology and unintelligent, poorly trained writers refuses to tell basic truths.

497
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: So you can sort of see how even if you

498
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: were a video gamer who had some grievances with the

499
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: gaming space, what he's saying is like, you're mad about

500
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: gaming and also the far left and also democrats and

501
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: also what first of all, what a great writer, which

502
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,479
Speaker 1: is what part is what sucks about. It's like he's

503
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: actually a good writer. But like, but yeah, that move

504
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: of like man, it's like it's to me, it's like

505
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 1: mass about a hustle from a mile away when somebody's like, yeah,

506
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: that's crazy, man. How do they how do they make

507
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: fun of y'all? Like, you know, yeah, Dode, they do

508
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: be making fun of us. May think you just you know,

509
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: you just know nothing. This and this and this and

510
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: you know what, you know, you're trying to open up

511
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: the book. You want to talk about the game. They're

512
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: talking about something else. It's like yeah, man, like I'm

513
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: more interested in the game, and it's like, yeah, it's

514
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: because you know, and we know we hate to woke

515
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: left that be doing that to you. And you're like, wait,

516
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait, that's what we're mad about, Like okay, yeah,

517
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: that's what What's what we're mad about? And and like,

518
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: I guess I'm just putting myself in the shoes of

519
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: a person who may it far off it is, but

520
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: like that first few times you read it, you was like, what,

521
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: that's what we're mad about, and then after a while

522
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's what we're mad about.

523
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: It's that you know what I'm saying, because you started

524
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: off with stuff that I actually am mad about, which

525
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: is like yeah, man, exactly. Yeah. It's such an effective

526
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: radicalization tactic. And honestly, Milo basically says as much in

527
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 1: one PC Rights Women and you won't hear this anywhere

528
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: else are screwing up the Internet for men by invading

529
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: every space we have online and ruining it with their

530
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: engine seeking and the needy, demanding, touchy feely form of

531
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: modern feminism that quickly comes into conflict with men's natural

532
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: tendency to be boisterous, confrontational and delightfully autistic. And so

533
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: you really exactly what you said, prop he. He really

534
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: is connecting these men in their feelings around gaming to

535
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: be these broader political grievances. So it's not just about

536
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: gaming journalism, even even that is like dubious, but it's

537
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: also about you know, hating leftists and the media and

538
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: institutions and telling these people like you are being bullied

539
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: and ignored and attacked by the culture. And it really

540
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: creates the situation where these spaces, you know, gaming culture

541
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: film are turned into a battlefield like like a whereby

542
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: Milo is kind of selling these men on the idea

543
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: that resisting kind of social justice warriors and taking back

544
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: video games and taking back tech spaces and taking that

545
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: film is a kind of activism in and of itself. Yeah,

546
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: you're speaking their language but in a weird way and

547
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: then twisting the same words and to mean something else.

548
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, it's like, now we're so

549
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: far down the road. It's like, well, now I'm here,

550
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: I guess I do believe this stuff, man that Yeah,

551
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: this is so sinister, dude, Like and again it's like,

552
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: first of all, these kids ain't victims number one. You

553
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, And they are you know what

554
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean, they've been weaponized, you know what I'm saying.

555
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: But it's like my my brain goes to a place

556
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: to where it's like, I don't know if you had

557
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: the sort of like socio cultural just societal engineering and

558
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: experiences to know when you're being swindled, you know what

559
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: I'm saying, to be able to step back and be like,

560
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: hold on, man, speak for yourself. Holmy, that I look,

561
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: that's that ship. You won't. That's not what I'm all like,

562
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like and and I feel

563
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: like that whether I don't know street smarts, whatever it is,

564
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: it's just like I know how to be like hold up, now,

565
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: speak for yourself. You know what I'm saying, Like wait, nah, Holmie,

566
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: that not why I'm here. You know what I'm saying, Like,

567
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I like the game, but like, no, that's

568
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: not why I'm here. You know what I'm saying. Like

569
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: walking the club, it's done club right? You like this music? Yeah,

570
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: we've been get funked up. Could you know what I'm saying, Hey,

571
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna smash a thousand girls, and it's like whoa, whoa, whoa,

572
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, whoa. I'm just you know what I'm saying, Like, Man,

573
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a a little bit of honey and

574
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: listen to some music like that ship you all, that's

575
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: your that's your problem, you know what I'm saying. But

576
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: like maybe it's I'm like and I'm I'm trying to say,

577
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: like maybe they didn't have that experience, you know what

578
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: I'm saying, to be able to like know when this

579
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: is happening to you to stop and be like hold

580
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: up because like that wait, no, that's you. You speak

581
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: for yourself, homie, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, that's

582
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: such a good point. I think it's very easy to

583
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: get sucked in when someone is it's like flattering you,

584
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: telling you that you are you know, you have values

585
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: that other people don't have, and you don't anyone get Yeah,

586
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: but you don't only want to say that nobody else

587
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: is validating you exactly. And I think it speaks to

588
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: this sort of intoxicating power of feeling seen. I think

589
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: that also utilizes this very well of when you take

590
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: people who you know genuine or not feel unseen, feel unheard,

591
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: whether or not that that actually is true, because I

592
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: would argue that, like he did that with white people,

593
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, what society are you living in

594
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: where white people are like unseen and unheard? Not a right,

595
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: but but the power. I think that when you take

596
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: people who feel unseen whether they really are not, and

597
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: make them feel seen, I think that can be a

598
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: really intoxicating thing. And if you don't, yeah, if you

599
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: don't know what to look out for, you can really

600
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: get people on board with stuff. I'm sorry to say

601
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: that very easily. Yeah, So this is where Leslie Jones

602
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: comes in. You know, Milo and Steve Bannon have have

603
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: made it so that take back these spaces, taking back

604
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: video games and movies and all of that. That is

605
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: a that feels like a form of activism. So if

606
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: folks don't know who Leslie Jones is, first of all,

607
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: you should because she's hysterical. She is a comedian, probably

608
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: best known for her time on Saturday Night Live. This

609
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: is not really related to the story, but I just

610
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: want to include it. Leslie Jones she has a very

611
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: interesting educational background. She went to Chapman University on a

612
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: basketball scholarship until the team's coach left to go to

613
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: Colorado State, and she liked this coach so much that

614
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: she followed him and transferred there. While yeah, I think

615
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: that's I don't know why. I was like, oh, well,

616
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: that's that. She was like, oh, I'll just come with him.

617
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: While she was at college, she worked as a DJ

618
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: and R campus radio station and side notes. So today

619
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: I liked that, and she, you know, she bounced around majors,

620
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: and her majors included accounting, pre law, and computer science,

621
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: and so I don't know, I wanted to include that

622
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: because I think it speaks to the kind of dynamic person.

623
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: She's actually interesting. Yeah. Back in the like, Leslie Jones

624
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: was sort of one of those kind of I guess

625
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: i'll say good at Twitter celebrities right, Like, she was

626
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: one of those celebrities that when she tweeted, people paid attention,

627
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: and she generated a lot of goodwill for the platform

628
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: um and really showed like how the platform could be

629
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: used in these fun and new ways. During the Olympics,

630
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: she was known for live tweeting the events and like

631
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: posting her reactions and everybody loved this. Hupping and post

632
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: wrote an article call it saying watching Leslie Jones watched

633
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: the Olympics is better than the actual Olympics, so she

634
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: was beloved. Yeah, I followed her because she was Yeah.

635
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: Because of that, I was like, that was when live

636
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: tweeting was something that we enjoyed. So I'm like, dude,

637
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: she's the best at it, because I'll be like, um, yeah,

638
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: I'm watching It felt like he was like out of

639
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: barbecue withter, you know, it was so fun. Yeah. So

640
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: in short, Leslie is just doing her thing, minding her

641
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: business and her own damn business, and everyone loves her, right,

642
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: She's everyone loves her, So it's not like she's like

643
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 1: doing anything wrong other than existing and minding her business.

644
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: In director Paul Fage announced that he's going to be

645
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,439
Speaker 1: directing a reboot of the movie Ghostbusters. Sonny initially wanted

646
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: to do a sequel, but Bill Murray wasn't interested and

647
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: Harold Rames had passed away, so they ended up doing

648
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: a reboot with four female leads, Kristin Wig, Melissa McCarthy,

649
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: Kate McKinnon, and Leslie Jones. Now, almost as soon as

650
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: this is announced, there is backlash. The trailer for the

651
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: Ghostbusters reboot became the most disliked trailer in the history

652
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: of YouTube. The rate of dislike is remarkable. An article

653
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 1: on screen Crush breaks it down how it ranked among

654
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: other hated videos on YouTube. The number one hated video

655
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: on YouTube at the time was Justin Bieber's video for

656
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: the song Baby, which had six million thumbs down, and

657
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: the Ghostbusters trailer. When you compare it to other disliked

658
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: videos from the platform, it's remarkable in that it has

659
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: a high ratio of dislikes. The trailer had five and

660
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: seven thousand six dislikes on just twenty eight point seven

661
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: million views, So that's a staggering fifty six to one

662
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: ratio in terms of dislikes per view. So you kind

663
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: of get a sense that, like, it's not just that

664
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: people are disliking it, they are disliking it at a

665
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: highly disproportionate rate compared to other videos that people don't like.

666
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: This is not an organic thing. People are definitely gamifying

667
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: hate watching the trailer by vote brigading. This could honestly

668
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: be its own episode, but pbs that are really interesting.

669
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 1: Interview with The Daily Dots managing editor Austin Powell, who

670
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: describes vote brigading as overwhelming and manipulating rather rudimentary online

671
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: systems to influence or disrupt public perception. So basically places

672
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: like Reddit and four chan and other right circles are

673
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: that are aggressively masculine. We're really down voting anything that

674
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: had a viewpoint that could be linked to like their ideology.

675
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: And so because of the way that these platforms exist,

676
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: it's not always easy to say, you know, where is

677
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 1: this Where is this inorganic hate coming from? You can't

678
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 1: always tell the source, but the numbers make it clear

679
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: that this is not you know less, more people are

680
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: disliking this video than are watching the video, So something

681
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: weird is going on with how people are responding to it. Yeah,

682
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: there's definitely like the knee jerk like where all these

683
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: weirdos come in of like when you just slightly change

684
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: something that doesn't remind them of the nostalgia that they're from,

685
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: it's like, oh sucks, you ruined it. You know. So, like, yeah,

686
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: people arguing that like Middle Earth shouldn't have black people,

687
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: like what the Middle Art is not a real place?

688
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: Number one, you know what I'm saying? And then who

689
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: I forget homeboy, but he's he's the one that like

690
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: makes me laugh the most homies, like, well, scientifically speaking,

691
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,959
Speaker 1: you know, a mermaid would not have a black skin

692
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: because she lived on the bottom of them. Like did

693
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: you just start this sentence about a mermaid with Scientifically speaking?

694
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: I believe that was Ben Shapiro, who was really you know,

695
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,959
Speaker 1: it's so funny. These people are like like, oh, snowflakes,

696
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and then it's like a black mermaid

697
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, but we're the ones. But we're

698
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: the ones fragile, right, like we don't want okay word, yeah,

699
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: we're we're we're the snowflakes. Yeah you're mad. Okay, you're

700
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: mad that Game of Thrones got black people. But I'm like,

701
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: and that's unrealistic, like the dragons Matt did the Like

702
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: scientifically speaking, I was like, bro, I was supposed to

703
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: take you serious. How can anyone take you serious after this?

704
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: What is you mad about? So like, so I say

705
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: that to say, okay, you've turned the Ghostbusters into girls.

706
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: Well sucks just supposed to be Okay, It's like all right,

707
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: you're all right, all right, let it go, okay stupid,

708
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: Now go watch the movie because it's actually very funny

709
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 1: and all four of those women are hilarious, and you

710
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: know they're hilarious, Like, so like, relax, Okay, you got

711
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: it out, you got it's not exactly what you remember. Sorry,

712
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Now, Now let's enjoy it.

713
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: That's what I thought was going to happen. You know,

714
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: I will never understand. So like with the Ghost, but

715
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: with with any reboot, really it's not like they're making

716
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: it illegal to own the original. So if you're like, oh,

717
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: I was like very into the original, I don't like

718
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: this reboot, that's fine. They're not there. You can still

719
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: just watch the original. It's not going anywhere this because

720
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: this because they've added a reboot or be make or

721
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: they've made a Black Mermaid or whatever, nobody is forcing

722
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: you to watch it. And you're the thing that you

723
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: loved isn't going anywhere, Like what are you so upset about? Yeah?

724
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: What's the And it's like, okay, what's your percentage of

725
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: the shareholding of that movie? Right in the zero point

726
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 1: zero zero? What the hell? You care? What's this doing

727
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: for you? You know what I'm saying, Like, are you serious? Fan? You? You? You? You?

728
00:39:53,280 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: You this route up over something you don't own all right, yeah,

729
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: and enters the chat next on this. Oh my god,

730
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: I hate I hate to say it, but you did

731
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: not just put this man on my screen right now.

732
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: Even Trump got in the mix. This is the weirdest video. Yeah,

733
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: play that. It's the weirdest thing. Oh I see the

734
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: hashtags already. Okay, they're remaking Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford.

735
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: You can't do that, and now they're making Ghostbusters with

736
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: only women. What's going on? It looked like somebody told

737
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: him to say that. Why is he yelling? Why is

738
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: he yelling? It's so weird? And the video stops where

739
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: he's just like, what's going on? Time? They're remaking Indiana

740
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: Jones without Harrison Ford. You can't do that, And now

741
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: they're making Ghostbusters with only women. What's going on? Oh

742
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: my god, that's so weird. So like, man, what the

743
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: hell are you talking? What this is? That? Look, it's

744
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: it's that same energy that like, I mean, it's not

745
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: the same, but it's like you go go to like Budapest,

746
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: Hawaii and be like, hey, where can we get a

747
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: hot dog? It sucks hot dogs. It's like, I'm sorry,

748
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: it's not exactly like the place you left. The hell

749
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Fam It's a different it's what

750
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: percentage of what percentage of Indiana Jones do you own?

751
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: It's so strange. So obviously Ghostbusters the reboot really tapped

752
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: into all of these hot button issues around race and

753
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: gender that movements like Gamergate had exposed and inflamed. And

754
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: what's interesting is that not everybody didn't like Not everybody

755
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: didn't like the reboot of Ghostbusters because it was like

756
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: they were being anti woke. Some people thought the jokes

757
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: were bad, some people thought it was you know, they

758
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: didn't like that it was a remake. Some people didn't

759
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: like Leslie Jones's character, some people just don't like reboots. Whatever.

760
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: But the issue is that when bad actors and extremists

761
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: hijacked these conversations because they want to grind a political acts,

762
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 1: it creates a situation where waiting into it at all

763
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: makes people feel like they have to pick sides because

764
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: it becomes so charged, right, and so you either have

765
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: to hate the movie for being like a woke PC

766
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: remake or you feel like you need to defend it

767
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 1: up against these like racist, sexist attacks. And so folks

768
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: who are you know, maybe just want to like watch

769
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: the movie and not necessarily have this kind of like

770
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: a weighty opinion about it. They're completely drowned out. And

771
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: people who you know, just want to talk about this

772
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: movie on its merits, they are also drowned out, and

773
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: you know, it creates this thing where the conversation turns

774
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: into this highly charged proxy for culture wars. I think

775
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: I remember. I think it was Roxanne Gay tweeted like

776
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy a hundred tickets to this movie because

777
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: just to support it, because it's being attacked, and it

778
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: creates a situation where just supporting or not supporting a

779
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: movie is seen as a kind of activism or a statement,

780
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: which I just hate so much. Yeah that's the Yeah,

781
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: so like that, yeah, getting it. I remember, I remember

782
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: all this happening, and I remember being like again, like faminists,

783
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: it's a movie, like it's a movie about catching ghosts

784
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: with like eo plasm, Like y'all like we what are

785
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: we talking about? Like in okay, Like I'm just like yeah,

786
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: I'm like I just want to see it because I

787
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: think they I think they're funny, Like I think all

788
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: four of those women are funny. You know what I'm saying?

789
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: And Ghostbusters was funny because all four of those dudes

790
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: were funny. That's the only reason, Like I'm and I

791
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: was a baby and Bobby Brown was in Ghostbusters too,

792
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: so I wanted to see. So I'm like, I don't

793
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: understand this when I'm like, when the last time you

794
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 1: talked about Ghostbusters before you heard that this was coming,

795
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: Like you don't, well, you've gotten pared from now, you've

796
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,919
Speaker 1: got some. You got some like hitting the room in here,

797
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: where you got where the ship mean that much? You like,

798
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: you don't even care that much? Right, And it to me,

799
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: it was like what you're probably gonna get to is

800
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: like and why y'are singling out leslie so much? Like

801
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: why you know exactly why you know what I'm saying.

802
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: And it's like and even on top of that, I'm like, because, Okay,

803
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: not only do she like you know, she's the you know,

804
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: she's uh part of the season their food club, you

805
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, who actually washed their legs? You

806
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like, not only is she a

807
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: part of that, but at the same time, like, Okay,

808
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, she don't look like Carrie Washington. What I'm saying,

809
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: she won't you know what I'm saying, So she don't

810
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: look like Beyonce, because I'm like, okay, she looked like Beyonce.

811
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: Would this be a whole day? Would this be a

812
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: different situation? You feel me like? And that to me

813
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: was like even more infuriating as to like why y'all

814
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: going after her, because it's like, already know why you're

815
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: going after but now now I really know why you're

816
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: going after Yeah, you put that so well, and she

817
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: will get to it later, but like she acknowledges this,

818
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: Like I feel like when these attacks happened, because when

819
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: you attack black women, you don't want to be the

820
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: per sin who is talking about it, what is happening

821
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: publicly or loudly or vocally, right, And so because that

822
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: creates a situation where it's like, oh, well, maybe she

823
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: was being aggressive, Like maybe she like it's just so

824
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: hard to talk about these things and so often even

825
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: like I think that as a society, we're more comfortable

826
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: talking about racism against black folks. I think the conversation

827
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: that can be not we're not super comfortable within I

828
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: think that we're more comfortable with that than the conversation

829
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 1: of like it's also because I'm a black woman who

830
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: has dark skin, So I think it's I think it's

831
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: not just racism, it's colorism as well. And I think

832
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: that that conversation is like harder to have and people

833
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: are less willing to have that conversation openly, absolutely and

834
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 1: just doesn't fit like traditional beauty standards, even because like Loupete,

835
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: Loupete is dark exactly, she's gorgeous, you know what I mean.

836
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: So I'm like, Okay, so there's a lot going on

837
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 1: here that you're not willing to say. You feel me,

838
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: it's a lot of unsaid stuff happening that we're really

839
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: invested in just pretending is not happening well while we

840
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: could all see it and feel it happening. So on Breitbart,

841
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: Milo published a review of Ghostbusters, and I don't think

842
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: it's a surprise to anyone that it's clear that this

843
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 1: review is not just interested in getting into the merits

844
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: of the film. A couple of standout lines. He writes,

845
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 1: the spattering of negative and lukewarm reviews that are now

846
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: piling up is brave for the leftist establishment media. These

847
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: writers are risking being labeled as sexist bigots, A fate

848
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: worse for a liberal than running out of Keen Waugh

849
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: and hummus while your vegan boyfriend is staying over. I

850
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: used to think he was a good writer ten minutes ago. Ian, Yeah, this,

851
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: this review keep him for him, A little phoned in,

852
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: a little um. He goes on to say, um. But

853
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: most of the press realizes that whatever shreds of credibility

854
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: it has left would be utterly lost by giving this

855
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 1: film and unqualifiedly positive review. He singles out Leslie Jones's character, Patty.

856
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: He says, Patty is the worst of the lot. The

857
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: actress is spectacularly unappealing, even relative to the rest of

858
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: the odious cast. But it's her flat as a pancake

859
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: black styling. So I thought to have irritated the social

860
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: justice warriors. I don't get offended by such things, but

861
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: they should. And so all of the hate that is

862
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 1: being directed at the film to all of the leads,

863
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: it's so much worse for Leslie, and that is to

864
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: be expected. The research is super clear that black women

865
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: disproportionately are targeted for abuse online when compared to their

866
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: white counterparts. Uh, and Leslie is is really getting it,

867
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: like she's not like the rest of the folks in

868
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: the film are not getting it as vocally as she is.

869
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: Um and so Leslie Jones, you know, she is a

870
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: Twitter super user, and so she that part of that

871
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: is like replying to tweets, engaging with tweets. I remember

872
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: seeing this unfold. She got like a few critical tweets

873
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,479
Speaker 1: about Ghostbusters that were pretty run of the mill, people

874
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: saying like, oh, I didn't like this movie. I didn't

875
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: think you were funny. There's a black woman who tells her,

876
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: I thought that Sherry Shephard or Lonnie Love would have

877
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: been better in this movie than you were. So like

878
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: not not nice, but they're not, you know, it's just

879
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: like to be expected exactly, Like they're all within the

880
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: scope of like what you would expect if you're a

881
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: public figure who's put out a movie. Um, and it's not.

882
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: It's not like Leslie Jones is falling apart and wizering

883
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: at this criticism. She's engaging with it. She's replying like

884
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: she's it's fine. And then Milo retweets Leslie complaining about

885
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: people not liking the movie. He retweets it with if

886
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: at first you don't succeed because your work is terrible.

887
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,479
Speaker 1: Play the victim. Everyone gets hate mail for fox sake.

888
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 1: He follows it up with Ghostbusters is doing so badly

889
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: that they've employed Leslie Jones to play the victim on Twitter.

890
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: And this is all a real callback to his style

891
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 1: of writing on Breitbart that he spent years beating the

892
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: drum around this idea that it is men who are

893
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: being oppressed by women, and that women play the victim

894
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: for attention or for cloud and when they do, the corrupt,

895
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: biased media rewards them from it. And he's been spending

896
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: all of his time like beating that drum and seating

897
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: that as a narrative in his writing to these like

898
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: disaffected men that he's been according and talking about how

899
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: this sort of goes against the idea of quote meritocracy

900
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 1: that Milo has been so long telling gamers that they

901
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: value more than others. Oh my god, So it gets worse.

902
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: Milo then retweets completely fake doctor tweets that appear to

903
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: show Leslie saying racist and anti Semitic things. Um, these

904
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,240
Speaker 1: are not her, Like she's this is like several fake tweets.

905
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: Then she blocks him. When she blocks him, Milo tweets

906
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: rejected by another black dude and shows the screenshot of

907
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: the block screen. So at this point the tenor of

908
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: the criticism clearly changed, and it goes from run of

909
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: the mill, like I don't like this movie. Two things

910
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: like her website being hacked and having pictures of her

911
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: driver's license and passports published to her website, ex iplicit

912
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: personal photos of her that were stolen posted to her website,

913
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 1: which by the way, is a sex crime um and

914
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: then pictures of her on her website being like her

915
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: head being replaced with the gorilla harambe. And so this

916
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: is not criticism, you know, this is not It's too

917
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: way too far. So she tweets, I have been called apes,

918
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: sent pictures of asses, even got a picture with siemen

919
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: on my face. I'm trying to figure out what human means.

920
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: I'm out. I feel like I'm at a personal hell.

921
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything to deserve this. It's just too much.

922
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be like this. So hurt right now. And

923
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: so it's clear that when this was just run of

924
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: the mill movie criticism, Leslie probably didn't like it, but

925
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: she was engaging with it. And then Milo completely changed

926
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: the tenor of those interactions by introducing these inflammatory racist,

927
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: fake tweets and racializing the conversation. Ye see, this is

928
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 1: the part that like, this is why maybe in the

929
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: beginning I may have spoke out it because I didn't

930
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: know the rest of this. I just saw her cracking

931
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: jokes with people, you know what I'm saying, and I

932
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: was like, oh, she's funny, dude, she got it. Like

933
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: I don't remember the rest of audience. I didn't realize

934
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 1: all this other stuff happened. Dang. So in the in

935
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: the beginning, when it was just you know, I think

936
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: Lonnie Love would be funnier like she like she was

937
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 1: like clapping back, and it was it seemed like it

938
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,959
Speaker 1: was all in good fun. But the way that Milo

939
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: entered the conversation and changed the tenor and like turned

940
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: the temperature up and made it so racialized, all of

941
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 1: that like back and forth that she was engaging in

942
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: took a very different turn. And this is all outlined

943
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 1: and a piece that Milo wrote on Breitbart where he

944
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: essentially blames Leslie for her own harassment because she responded

945
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: to it, and he frames what is happening as regular

946
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,720
Speaker 1: people not being able to criticize the elites. He writes,

947
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 1: in the words of a man who thoroughly triggered Leslie

948
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: Jones to express different opinions from the elite is the

949
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: real sin in this story. But when you look back

950
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: at his tweets, he's not expressing a different opinion than

951
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 1: Leslie Jones. He's not like criticizing her skills as an actor.

952
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: He's calling her a man and spreading doctor tweets that

953
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: one of which purports to show her calling the executives

954
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: at Sony the company, that she had just made a

955
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: movie for a slur for Jewish people. Like, that's not

956
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: a difference of opinion. That's a very different thing. And

957
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 1: you know what's funny is that even per Milo's own

958
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 1: rundown of the situation, he himself points out that Leslie

959
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: was just fine when the conversation was just legitimately criticism.

960
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: When the tenor of the conversation changed, she obviously like, like,

961
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: that was a different situation. And so for all of

962
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: his you know, going on and on about free speech,

963
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: it was Milo who came in and stifled the legitimate

964
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 1: criticism of the film. Leslie Jones had to pull down

965
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 1: her website after it was hacked. She stopped tweeting after

966
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: being harassed and you know, the actual critique that she

967
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: had been engaging in was silenced because of it. So

968
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: if anybody was like stifling the speech, it was Milo.

969
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: Here is Leslie talking about it to Laverne Cox. What

970
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 1: a blessing to have it come later in life, because

971
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: I think about me when I think I wasn't ready

972
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: as I thought, you know, when I moved to New York,

973
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: necting that in a few years I would be a superstar.

974
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: And what I understand about not having been ready, it's

975
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: not even just doing the work of being an actor,

976
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: but the fame part. Just dealing with the fame and

977
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: for you when Ghostbusters happened and the trolling and people

978
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: have to really know how specific that. Yeah, none of

979
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 1: none of the other girls got trolled like I did.

980
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: And I hate to say it like this, but it

981
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: is was because I was a black woman, and I

982
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: hate to say that. I think it's also that you're

983
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 1: a dark skinned black woman. Yeah, yeah, I really hate

984
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: to say that because it's truth. Though it's it's like

985
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to be like, I don't want this to

986
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: be about that, but it was, and it was a shame.

987
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: And the reason I say it all the time is

988
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: because I think people need to hear this. I was

989
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 1: getting videos of white people spitting on on my picture, um,

990
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 1: hanging me, hanging my doll. They're gonna kill me, They're

991
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: gonna find out where my family. They're gonna kill me

992
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: and my family. They're spitting they would they would sending

993
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: my pictures with where they jacked off on it. Like

994
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: it was just horrible, horrible for a movie. And the

995
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: reason that you that that I got cast, I'm so sorry.

996
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 1: So my important thing was like everybody was like, well,

997
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: you know, ignore it block. No that I'm not gonna ignore.

998
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,280
Speaker 1: Accountability is what needs to be set in this society

999
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: right now. Ya can't just do the people and think

1000
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,280
Speaker 1: you could just get away with it because you wouldn't

1001
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: say that my face. You would not say that in

1002
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 1: my face, and I know you wouldn't because profile don't

1003
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: even have your picture on it has a cartoon. So

1004
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: you're coward and I'm gonna call you out. So I

1005
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 1: would take screenshots of everything that was sent to me

1006
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: and I would post it and I'd be like, yeah,

1007
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 1: this is the type of that's coming to me. This

1008
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: is the type of community that y'all like, what's wrong

1009
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: with y'all. That's why I arrived for her. That's exactly

1010
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: it is. She's like, nah, I are you a coward?

1011
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna call you on it again. I So

1012
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: I was like, you messing with the wrong one. That's

1013
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: what That's what I thought about her. I'm like, you know,

1014
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: you're messing with the wrong one. She ain't gonna she

1015
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 1: ain't gonna let you'all like do her like this. Yeah,

1016
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: And listening to her talk about it, I'm on the

1017
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: one hand, she should not have to go through at

1018
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: all at all. But on the other hand, I'm happy

1019
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: that she like the advice of like just ignore it,

1020
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: don't pay attention to them. I'm glad that she did

1021
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: not take that advice because there has to be accountability.

1022
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 1: There has to be accountability. Um. And So one of

1023
00:55:57,960 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: the questions that people ask a lot in this conversation

1024
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: was did Milo actually lead the charge of harassment against Jones?

1025
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: And this is a little bit of a tricky situation

1026
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: because it's another hallmark of online harassment where users that

1027
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: have these big platforms, they don't come right out and

1028
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: say attack this person, because that would clearly violate Twitter's

1029
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 1: rules against coordinated harassment. So it's very like wink wink,

1030
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: nudge nudge. Trump was also very good at this. Um.

1031
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: You know. Milo writes a scathing review about Ghostbusters where

1032
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: he singles out Leslie Jones specifically, he introduces racist, inflammatory

1033
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: attacks on her. He quote tweets her to his followers

1034
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: and says, this person is playing the victim for Cloud,

1035
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: and then he demonstrates that she blocked him so that

1036
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 1: he cannot continue harassing her. Um and he says this

1037
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: to his millions of followers, who he has ripped up

1038
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:49,439
Speaker 1: into a frenzy. I would argue knowing that they will

1039
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: understand what they are being called to do. But it's

1040
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: so savvy because when people point out his role in this,

1041
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 1: he's able to be like, oh, they're lying about me.

1042
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: It's just another piece of evidence of this biased media.

1043
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 1: And I believe people like Milo they know exactly what

1044
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: they are doing. They are purposely amassing a following of

1045
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: a grief sycophants that they have inflamed, and then they

1046
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: point them out a specific target. Step back, let them

1047
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: attack this person. And then they say I had nothing

1048
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: to do with it. Prove I had it. Where's the

1049
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: tweet or I told them to do this. I had

1050
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:25,919
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. God, yeah, that's the worst type. Man. Well,

1051
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: you could be like, what do you what are you

1052
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: talking about? What did I do? Okay, what did I do?

1053
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: You're like, bro, yeah, that kind of goes back to

1054
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: what we talked about before we started filming about oh boy,

1055
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: yeah it's and also I mean to yeh like it's

1056
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: like a like a I would have respected so much

1057
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: more of it. If you're gonna be about it, be

1058
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: about it, don't be about it. And then when you're

1059
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: called out and be like, I just know such thing.

1060
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: You know, it's so cowardly, She's exactly right that it's

1061
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: so coward And she was like, y'all even y'all even

1062
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: got photos on your profile. I was like, yeah, yea,

1063
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: that's during that season. Yeah, when you just had the

1064
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: little black and white circle shadow. That was definitely the

1065
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: situation when like, man, he even got it. You don't

1066
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 1: even got an Abbey bro like I'm good. So eventually

1067
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: Leslie Jones takes a pause from Twitter. She says, I

1068
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: leave Twitter tonight with tears in a very sad heart.

1069
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: All of this because I did a movie. You can

1070
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: hate the movie, but the shift I got today is wrong.

1071
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: And eventually Jack Dorsey, who then was the CEO of Twitter,

1072
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: personally got involved. He met with Leslie about the harassment,

1073
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: and Twitter permanently banned Milo from the platform as a result.

1074
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: In a statement, Twitter said people should be able to

1075
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: express diverse opinions and believes on Twitter, but no one

1076
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: deserves to be subjected to targeted abuse online and are

1077
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 1: rules promhibit inciting or engaging and targeted harassment or abuse

1078
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,959
Speaker 1: of others. Um This actually ended up kick starting a

1079
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: wave of Twitter sort of cracking down on like white

1080
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: supremacist all right Twitter users. In November, they suspend Richard

1081
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: Spencer and other white supremacists figures, and they rolled out

1082
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: a series of action succurbed hate speech and abuse on

1083
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 1: the platform. Here's Leslie talking about the aftermath of how

1084
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: this all ended up. What's scary about the whole thing

1085
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: is that the insults didn't hurt me. Unfortunately, I'm used

1086
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: to the insults. That's unfortunate. But what scared me was

1087
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 1: the injustice of a gang of people jumping against you

1088
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: for such a sick cause. I mean, it was like, like,

1089
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 1: I mean, they just like everybody has an opinion and

1090
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 1: it all comes at you at one time, and their stay.

1091
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: They really believe in what they believe in, and it's

1092
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: so mean, Like it's so gross and mean and unnecessary.

1093
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: So it was just like one of those things of like, okay,

1094
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: so if I hadn't said anything, nobody would ever knew

1095
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: about this. And it was one of those things of like, hey,

1096
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: you know when I when I approached Facebook, day was

1097
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: on it. Twitter, I was on them. I was like, Yo,

1098
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: it's okay. It's like, that's my favorite restaurant. I love

1099
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 1: the food there. Three people just got shot in to me,

1100
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: y'all need to get scarity. You know, there's a lot

1101
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: of really smart people at that company, and they really

1102
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 1: need to try to start sorting out not just how

1103
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: to protect people like you, but the people that don't

1104
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: have this public forum, because I think it happens to

1105
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: so many people. So it's definitely a good thing that

1106
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: Milo was kicked off the platform. But here's the thing.

1107
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: Leslie Jones is a wealthy celebrity. She was also like

1108
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: a Twitter super user, so it's not surprising that Jack

1109
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 1: Dorsey would step in and like personally meet with her

1110
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: about these experiences. But what about all the black women

1111
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 1: and girls who are not celebrities right, who have not

1112
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: personally been involved in like high engagement for the platform,

1113
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: who don't have the money to hire a digital security

1114
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: person to take down intimate photos if they're posted. I

1115
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: think that because people who are marginalized are the ones

1116
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: who are often targeted on social media platforms, they shouldn't

1117
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: have to be like rich, or famous or well connected

1118
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: to show up on these platforms. All different kinds of

1119
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 1: people who are attacked and harassed on social media platforms.

1120
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 1: Black folks, transpolkes, queer folks, sex workers, activists, doctors who

1121
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: perform abortions. These are the people who are being attacked

1122
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: and they deserved safety on these platforms, even if they

1123
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: are not celebrities. And that really brings us to today.

1124
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: You know, Elon Musk is already publicly signaling that these

1125
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: are the kinds of people responsible for these kinds of

1126
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 1: attacks he wants to bring back to the platforms. Last month,

1127
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson, which if you don't know who that is,

1128
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: listen to behind the Bastards. Yeah, good for you, but

1129
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: listen to behind the Bastards. He was kicked off of

1130
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: Twitter for intentionally mis gendering the actor Elliott Page, which

1131
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 1: is against Twitter's terms of service. His daughter tweeted last month, Uh,

1132
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: to Elon Musk, will you bring my dad back to

1133
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 1: the platform? Elon Must replied, anyone suspended for minor and

1134
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: dubious reasons will be freed from Twitter jail. And so

1135
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: think about all the people that represents Milo Peterson, folks

1136
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,439
Speaker 1: like Gavin mckinnis, who was the founder of The Boys,

1137
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: Alex Jones, and Margie Taylor Green, all these people who

1138
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: were kicked off the platform. Musk is signaling that he

1139
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: might reinstate them. He very well might reinstate Donald Trump.

1140
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 1: In a text exchange between him and Twitter's former CEO,

1141
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: Must says, Oh, it would be great to unwind permanent

1142
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 1: bands except for spam accounts and those that advocate for violence.

1143
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: And at a conference, Musk said that he thought that

1144
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: banning Donald Trump was a mistake. Yeah, but it's so

1145
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: like it's so stupid, like out of his own mouth,

1146
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: except for bots and like people that stoke violence. I'm like,

1147
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 1: literally everybody they banned, we're stoking violence. Like what is

1148
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 1: you talking about? Like I don't understand. And that's what

1149
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: I mean by like again earlier, or I could jump

1150
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: off this roof. It's like, okay, go ahead and do it. Now.

1151
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: Now you see why none of us are jumping off

1152
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: this roof. Now you see why what happened, why we

1153
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: all climbed down the second time, because we realized when

1154
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: you up there, oh, it's not what it's not what

1155
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: you thought it was. So you're gonna have to walk

1156
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: all this ship back everything you're saying you're gonna do.

1157
01:02:57,960 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: And and it's funny to watch that happen in real time,

1158
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like, you gotta walk all

1159
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: this ship back, so like and fam we try to

1160
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: tell you, like, no, bro, you don't want this smoke dog,

1161
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: you don't have you don't have to do it. You

1162
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: don't have to do it. Okay, go ahead, then you know,

1163
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: jump off the roof. It's such a good analogy. And

1164
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: I think we're seeing Elon Musk grapple with exactly those questions.

1165
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: You know, he called himself a free speech absolutist, and

1166
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: it's coming to see what pretty much every person who

1167
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 1: has ever run any social media platform that's see it

1168
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: is that it's really fucking hard, and it's involved, and

1169
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: you have to like really like consider a lot of stuff,

1170
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 1: and you can't just do it on a whim. And

1171
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 1: so it's interesting to watch him realize this will accept

1172
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: for and then also and then maybe if y'all was

1173
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: doing it, but then if we want to advertisers, then yeah,

1174
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 1: it's gonna be space. So you can't really say and

1175
01:03:54,240 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: then so yeah, but I'm an absolutist though, Okay, fab exactly,

1176
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 1: And so here's where we are now. You know, the

1177
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 1: question really becomes what are you going to allow on

1178
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: these platforms? Who has served when extremists are welcomed onto

1179
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 1: platforms that are allowed to harass and attack people who

1180
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:15,439
Speaker 1: were just mining their business like Milo and his supporters did.

1181
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: And you know, I think for a lot of these

1182
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: these people in prop I think that you really clocked this.

1183
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: It's a grift. It is an engagement strategy. It is

1184
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: I am going to harass people on Twitter, get lots

1185
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: of engagement, and that is going to meeting that's going

1186
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: to be lucrative for me. And I don't think that

1187
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: platform should be incentivizing that kind of a dangerous grift. Yeah,

1188
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: I have to end by saying you might be wondering, well,

1189
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 1: where is Milo. Now, while after being kicked off of Twitter,

1190
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: that was only one part of his downfall. It was

1191
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: not the Leslie Jones harassment campaign that killed off his career. Um,

1192
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: he kind of maintained golden boy status within the right

1193
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: until seen where he was slated to speak at Seapack

1194
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: and that a video surface of him, I guess like

1195
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: kind of endorsing pedophilia. This was a it's too far

1196
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: for the right. He was booted from the seat pack lineup,

1197
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: he lost a lucrative book deal, he resigned from Breitbart,

1198
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: and today he's broke. He doesn't have anywhere near the platform.

1199
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 1: And listen when I look when you send us this

1200
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 1: script and I scrolled down to the bottom and it

1201
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: said today Milo is broke. I was like, this is

1202
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: the greatest, this is the dopest last book. It never

1203
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: it never happens. Yeah, it rarely happens where somebody finally,

1204
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: like finally hits their downfall and you're like, all of

1205
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 1: my good home training says I shouldn't revel in your laws. However,

1206
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: this was like, no, you earned that. You know what

1207
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: I'm saying. That's that you earned that, brother, You know

1208
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 1: what I'm saying that's your ship sandwich that you put

1209
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 1: together yourself. So enjoy your ship sandwich. Enjoy it, bro,

1210
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 1: So thank you for being here today. It was a

1211
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: pleasure getting into this infurior in but enlightening conversation. Tell

1212
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 1: us about hood politics and do you know anyone where

1213
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: can get a good cup of coffee? Oh? I know

1214
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of um so politics with prop also on

1215
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: cool Zone media. Uh. It's essentially like it's kind of evolved.

1216
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: I kind of like the way it's evolved. It's a

1217
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: started off as just like, oh, like there's these weird headlines,

1218
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: hot takes, like what are these people talking about? How

1219
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: do I how do I make sense of this? And

1220
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 1: just really wanting to help people tap into like their

1221
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: street knowledge to understand that that's just as legitimate as

1222
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 1: their book knowledge, you know what I'm saying. So just

1223
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 1: really helping you understand just the political landscape. But it's

1224
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 1: really evolved into like more than just politics. It's like sociology,

1225
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 1: cultural studies, history, economics, just essentially like I just want

1226
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: people to understand it. You know, you're smarter than you

1227
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: think you are, and these people are not smarter than you.

1228
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, So, you had a very

1229
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: relevant tweet that you posted in the last week where

1230
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: you you talked about how people voted for things that

1231
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 1: they that they didn't think they were voting for because

1232
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: they purposely try to confuse. Yeah, so that's yeah, Like

1233
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 1: that's that type of like I'm trying to give y'all

1234
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: game where it's like, you know, um, whether the tweet

1235
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 1: was like, hey, you know a lot of y'all voted

1236
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 1: yes on stuff that you meant no and voted no

1237
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 1: on stuff that you thought meant yes, and it's because

1238
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 1: they worded it wrong. So what I want to do

1239
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: is come in with her politics is be like, hey, honey,

1240
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 1: you're trying to hustle you that means yes, you know,

1241
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 1: and just being like hey, think about it. Like you know,

1242
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 1: when somebody was like, hey, you don't want dinner tonight

1243
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: foods being like no, yes, no, I no, I do

1244
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 1: want dinner. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, like, look,

1245
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 1: they're not smarter than you. It's the hustle. You just

1246
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 1: gotta like pay attention to the hustle. So yeah, the

1247
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 1: politics are prop Also, I do have my own cold brew.

1248
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 1: It's called Terraform Cold Brew. You go to Terraform coldbrew

1249
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: dot com. It's can itself stable. You ain't gotta keep

1250
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 1: it in the frieze, although it takes better if you

1251
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: keep it in the frieze. But yeah, Terraform coldbrew dot

1252
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 1: com gets used to get you some of that good

1253
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 1: in your book and the book is also called Terraform

1254
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 1: Collection of Poetry and Short Story. With the holidays coming up,

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Speaker 1: I can't think of a better gift. You need to

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Speaker 1: get Terraform coffee and Terraform book. That would that's compared

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Speaker 1: book and coffee. It's a good. Yeah, thank you so much,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being appreciated. This is help. Internet Hate Machine

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Speaker 1: is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts

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Speaker 1: from cool Zone Media, check out our website cool zone

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Speaker 1: media dot com or find us on the I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.