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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. We linked up the profile page for Professor

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Speaker 1: Bart costco PhD JD on Coast to Coast AM. You'll

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Speaker 1: find it out on the website. Bart. How are you

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Speaker 1: doing tonight? I'm doing fine. How are you? I in good?

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Speaker 1: When does your semester start again? I'm on sabbatical, so

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Speaker 1: it actually is delayed for me, but it started on Monday.

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Speaker 1: You rock. I don't think. I don't think I'll be

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Speaker 1: teaching long enough to qualify for a sabbatical. My sabbatical

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Speaker 1: will be my retirement. So you know, it's funny before

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Speaker 1: we get started. So I was reminded of this when

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Speaker 1: I went to review your homepage, and I think this

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Speaker 1: is true if some of the best university so here

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Speaker 1: you are in the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering,

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Speaker 1: right in the Signal and Image Processing Institute. And I

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Speaker 1: don't this still sound harsh And I don't mean it to,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, gosh, website design looks like it's lycos

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Speaker 1: it looks like Opera one point or something. I think

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Speaker 1: they got to update that a little bit. For a

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Speaker 1: school with the reputation of USC, I think they've kind

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Speaker 1: of have a better layout, colorful reputation. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: partly my fault in because well back as student, I

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Speaker 1: helped out with something said offered to design my web page,

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Speaker 1: and I said, I don't want the other stuff I

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Speaker 1: see on it. Intentions and research are I only want

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Speaker 1: to publish content. Nothing else good, that's good, only my

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Speaker 1: published content. So I've posted videos and journal papers and

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Speaker 1: patents and other things and no paywall, and I don't

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Speaker 1: want to any way come in books, any way, come

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Speaker 1: between that. So if I could make that more accessible,

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Speaker 1: I would. I the only thing I've not done, And

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of requests for this. I have a

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Speaker 1: lot of notes sets on a wide range of subjects

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Speaker 1: to make it accessible, the probability lectures, quantum mechanics, Maxwell's equations.

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Speaker 1: I've learned one hundred thousand and tricks over the decades,

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Speaker 1: and I'd like to share that with more people, and

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Speaker 1: I may do that, but otherwise it's there simply as

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Speaker 1: my information giveaway. And I totally love that, and I

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Speaker 1: love the humility about that. Bart, but you could do

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Speaker 1: better than mosaic one point zero. I just definitely true.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to venture out there and say maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe adventure mosaic two point all right, So yeah, so listen.

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Speaker 1: I so admire the fact that you're willing to have

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Speaker 1: this conversation in any form. You're one of the few

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Speaker 1: people I think that I can attack this from a

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Speaker 1: couple of different standpoints, mostly because your your law degree,

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Speaker 1: but also obviously with your PhD. So let's start with this.

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Speaker 1: Lots of conversations suddenly about billion errors being able to

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Speaker 1: make themselves immortal in one form or another. We can

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Speaker 1: talk about it in a physical form, we could talk

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Speaker 1: about it in a digital form. Where do you want

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Speaker 1: to start? I think physical first, okay, And immortal of

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Speaker 1: course is I think unattainable in the universe of entropy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, eventually everything dies, but that eventually can be

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Speaker 1: a very very long time. And the other thing is,

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Speaker 1: although death is inevitable, it's not. Doesn't a principle have

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Speaker 1: to be permanent? I mean, technically, death is an engineering problem,

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Speaker 1: a big one, a grand one, but one we're quite

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Speaker 1: likely to conquer. And because of the effects of digital

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Speaker 1: technology in the rapid speed up, Moore's law is still

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Speaker 1: alive and kicking, doubling circuit density about every two years,

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Speaker 1: it's likely to come up bout through something like that

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Speaker 1: rather than just a physical So the crudest way to

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Speaker 1: extend your life right now, besides saying healthy as long

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Speaker 1: as you can, a lot of things you can do,

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Speaker 1: eating right, exercising and so forth, the crudest way is

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Speaker 1: simply not to destroy your brain when you first die.

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Speaker 1: And the only practical way of doing that is to

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Speaker 1: pump it full in effect of anti freeze and quote

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Speaker 1: unquote freeze it really to vitrify it to very slowly

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Speaker 1: lowered it's about minus three hundred twenty degrees fahrenheit and

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Speaker 1: liquid nitrogen. And once you've done that, pretty much everything

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Speaker 1: except a few quantum effects have stopped, and you've avoided

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Speaker 1: a lot of the ice damage that would happen if

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Speaker 1: you just jumped into a freezer for a long time.

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Speaker 1: And then you're waiting, maybe a very long time, but

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Speaker 1: time is on your side at that point for some

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Speaker 1: kind of restoration, maybe not of your entire body, maybe

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Speaker 1: a digital representation, but in the old take on this

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Speaker 1: in cryonics, and I am someone who has signed up

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Speaker 1: for that, as I've made clear sense of my books.

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Speaker 1: As you're thinking through two years ago right in that

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Speaker 1: But I'm just saying in that world, and the old

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Speaker 1: idea was if you just stored your head, for example,

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Speaker 1: we'd grow your body back from a head stump and

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Speaker 1: all would be fine. But the crucial thing is the

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Speaker 1: information that makes you you is in your synapses in

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Speaker 1: your brain, and if you burn it or if you

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Speaker 1: dissolve it through burial, embalming, etc. You've lost that. You've

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Speaker 1: encountered what we call information death, and that is irreversible.

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Speaker 1: Why would you want to do that? What inspires you

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Speaker 1: to break that barrier? You know? I'd like to pick

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Speaker 1: up a few more degrees. I'm just getting going like you.

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Speaker 1: I'm about to turn sixty three. I'm doing everything and

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Speaker 1: really just getting going life. But the key thing is

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Speaker 1: I want to die on my terms. I think in

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Speaker 1: the future and I think this will be routine, it

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Speaker 1: will be a version that will saying that changed that

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Speaker 1: the coward dies many deaths, but the brave die only one.

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Speaker 1: I think the ordinary person will probably die many times

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Speaker 1: if they choose to. Some people, maybe in for kind

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Speaker 1: of a sport. I want to do it on my terms,

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Speaker 1: and I'm ready to go, or maybe just take some

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Speaker 1: time out. I don't if you ever read the story

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Speaker 1: by a short novel by Arthur C. Clark called The

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Speaker 1: City and the Stars, and it said, way in the future,

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Speaker 1: in people at a billion years in the future, we've

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Speaker 1: gone to the stars, We've done everything we've dreamed about.

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Speaker 1: People kind of get bored and they come back and

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Speaker 1: then periodically they commit themselves to the blue flames to

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Speaker 1: be reconstructed at some other point. But right now we're

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Speaker 1: tied to the old rules of Darwin and they just

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Speaker 1: don't match our culture or digital technology, and we can

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Speaker 1: do a lot better, and they certainly don't match our

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Speaker 1: society within the context of the way laws are written

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Speaker 1: in terms of oh yeah, right, the legislation that gives

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Speaker 1: us money at a certain age and then past until

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Speaker 1: another certain age, and our system would go totally broke

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Speaker 1: if everybody was living forever. That's an interesting proposition. I

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Speaker 1: think what you're referring to some of the old property law,

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Speaker 1: and there's a very famous rule in there that be

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Speaker 1: devil students and property. I'm talking real property, not intellectual property,

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Speaker 1: and it's called rap. Not the music, but the rule

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Speaker 1: against perpetuities, and it comes out of Merry Old England

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Speaker 1: as much most of our laws and in effect says

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Speaker 1: that you can't extend trust type systems beyond twenty one

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Speaker 1: years in a so called life and being no one's

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Speaker 1: really known what that's meant. It's been jokes about it,

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Speaker 1: even made by judges on the bench. So what's happened

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Speaker 1: really since the nineties is that several states, because states

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Speaker 1: have so much power in our constitutional system on all

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Speaker 1: property law is state law, for example, thank god there's

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Speaker 1: no federal property law. And as a consequence, some states

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Speaker 1: have abolished a rule against gerpatuity. Kentucky has other states

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Speaker 1: You're in Kansas, I'm in California, Hawaii, many others have

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Speaker 1: extended it to ninety years. Colorado recently extended it to

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Speaker 1: a thousand years, and I think Wyoming also. In some states,

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Speaker 1: like I said, they've gotten rid of it completely in Texas.

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Speaker 1: Lets it stay in place so you can set up

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Speaker 1: a trust type structure. I don't mean a charitable trust

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Speaker 1: which has always been set up, but your personal, personal,

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Speaker 1: selfish trust to go on for a very long time. Now.

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Speaker 1: Combine that, and this is where I think is getting

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Speaker 1: to your point. With what's known in finance a theorem

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Speaker 1: called the rule of seventy two. And let me just

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Speaker 1: remind your listeners what that means. If this is an approximation.

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Speaker 1: But if you put money in a bank at a

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Speaker 1: constant rate of return of let's say ten percent, if

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Speaker 1: you divide that into seventy two, So seventy two divided

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Speaker 1: by ten tells you in about seven years your money

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Speaker 1: will double. Contrarywise, if it were a seven percent rate

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Speaker 1: of return, and good luck in getting that and dividing

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Speaker 1: that into the seventy two, it would take about ten years.

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Speaker 1: So you might ask, well, if I had money, billionaire

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Speaker 1: or poor man, if I put a dollar or billion

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Speaker 1: dollars right now into the stock market into the SMP

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Speaker 1: five hundred, Apple, Microsoft, in firms like that, that's ten

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Speaker 1: point five percent compound interest. Probably your best bet all

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Speaker 1: l held constantness to your Warren Buffett, who gets twenty

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Speaker 1: point one percent, by the way, and the only person

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Speaker 1: in history to do that for fifty years. But I

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Speaker 1: do you have ten point five percent rate of return

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Speaker 1: like SMP. So after ten years, your dollar becomes two

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Speaker 1: dollars and seventy one since I did the calculations, after

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Speaker 1: one hundred years, your dollar becomes twenty one seven hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars after two hundred years, four hundred and seventy million

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Speaker 1: plus dollars, and here we go, and after five hundred

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Speaker 1: years it would become five billion trillion dollars. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the whole system breaks down from there, just growing at

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Speaker 1: the ordinary rate at which our tech market and our

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Speaker 1: market economy grows. So even contending your life though a

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Speaker 1: little bit, can make a big difference here, just in

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Speaker 1: the rate of compounding, because it's so yeah, and which

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Speaker 1: is great for those people who have money to invest.

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Speaker 1: The majority of I would guess I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the figures are, but I would assume that the majority

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Speaker 1: of Americans do not have much money to invest beyond

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Speaker 1: a mutual fund or four oh one K, and so

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Speaker 1: they depend on social Security. And social Security depends on

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Speaker 1: somebody dying at a time when they where the money

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Speaker 1: that they have put into social Security is about equal

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Speaker 1: to what they've taken out or not much more than that.

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Speaker 1: And it certainly couldn't sustain if people started taking social

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Speaker 1: Security at say age sixty seven, but they're not dying

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Speaker 1: until one hundred and thirty seven, that's right. I mean

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Speaker 1: that clearly will have to be adjusted. It is starting

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Speaker 1: to scale up. I think you and I were in

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Speaker 1: the first group because we're born in nineteen sixty. Instead

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Speaker 1: of taking it out at sixty five, you gotta wait

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Speaker 1: till sixty seven, and it just continues after that. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: But you're right. The average person now is concerned with

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Speaker 1: ten plus percent inflation if you really factor in all

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Speaker 1: the other costs, and that works like the rule of

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Speaker 1: seventy two, but against you, and people are holding too

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Speaker 1: much debt. By the way, there is a concept that

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Speaker 1: spin out. It's called a libertarian nudge and very controversial,

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Speaker 1: and Professor cass Unstein proposes he's at Harvard University. But

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Speaker 1: I've heard of him, but I haven't heard of this.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is probably the most famous and Robert

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Speaker 1: Dayler's the most famous idea, and that is, if you

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Speaker 1: look at the experiment that we've had in this country

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Speaker 1: in voluntary pension funding, it's been an utter failure no

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Speaker 1: matter how you look at it. If you look at

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Speaker 1: the total amount of funding, because it counts a lot

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Speaker 1: of rich people's wealth. If you get something like in

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Speaker 1: savings of a quarter million, and that's not enough to

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Speaker 1: live on in retirement, but the average person factoring out

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Speaker 1: to super rich, I think the average person has less

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Speaker 1: than a hundred thousand and the retirement. So the idea

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Speaker 1: is this the nudge which restricts liberty and just a

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Speaker 1: tiny amount trying to make you be a little bit

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Speaker 1: more rational, which set as a default that you opt

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Speaker 1: in to whatever wage program you have with your employer.

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Speaker 1: It's a certain amount of savings for your retirement, but

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Speaker 1: it's a libertarian in the sense that you can always

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Speaker 1: opt out. Right now, the default is that you are

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Speaker 1: opted out, and most people just don't know any better,

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Speaker 1: or they don't but a lot of estimates that would

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Speaker 1: make a big difference. But you still need an economy

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Speaker 1: growing fast and you know, and we've you can't have

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Speaker 1: this kind of inflation that we have that's undermining I

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Speaker 1: think everybody, even the rich folks. But the effect on

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Speaker 1: the middle class and poor, I think is it's staggering.

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Speaker 1: We haven't seen this since we were kids in the

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Speaker 1: in the seventies. Basically that kind of thing. But one

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Speaker 1: thing you can do is again trying to avoid the

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Speaker 1: word nontoid, but as a default, trying to get everybody

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Speaker 1: saving and if you just introduce kids that I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to do over the years to what I what I

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Speaker 1: just told you the rule of seventy two, And if

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Speaker 1: we had time, and if we had a whiteboard, I

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Speaker 1: would give you the mathematical proof of while the seventy

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Speaker 1: why the rule of seventy two is actually a theorem

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Speaker 1: by expanding a property infinite series of the logarithm. But

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Speaker 1: when kids see that and they get that, and they

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Speaker 1: realize they can have time on their side, and that

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Speaker 1: we tend to think about life in general in a

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Speaker 1: linear way. And indeed, if you look at it exponentialum,

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Speaker 1: if you expand it, the first term is linear, but

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Speaker 1: then it's quadratic, then it's cubic, and then it's quartic.

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Speaker 1: And then if you can allow time, you need probably

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Speaker 1: a good twenty years to handle the ups and downs.

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Speaker 1: You can whatever your station in life, you can substantially

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Speaker 1: improve it over having just as we used to say

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Speaker 1: in Kansas, just eating the seed corn right, but even

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Speaker 1: just by the way, So we could take social security

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Speaker 1: starting at sixty five. The amount is very it's small,

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Speaker 1: so if you wait until sixty seven, then it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a much more you know, sort of understandable, workable payout.

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Speaker 1: Seventy is when it's pretty good. So if you're gonna

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Speaker 1: hold off till if anybody gonna hold up to seventy

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Speaker 1: who was born after nineteen sixty, you get a pretty

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Speaker 1: good deal. But you got to last till seventy. What

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Speaker 1: does the rule of seventy two have Is that related

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Speaker 1: at all to the average lifespan of human males in America,

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Speaker 1: which is about seventy two, isn't it? I think I

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Speaker 1: think we're better than that now, I think it will

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Speaker 1: be okay. Yeah, it's a mathematical principles. I used an example.

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Speaker 1: I'm up in the mountains right now outside of La

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Speaker 1: a lot of pine trees. If I just look at

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Speaker 1: a young pine tree and estimate how much it's growing

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Speaker 1: per year. Let's say it's growing ten percent a year

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Speaker 1: and it's currently eight feet and I say, okay, how

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Speaker 1: many years will it take until it's sixteen feet tall?

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Speaker 1: The rule seventy two applies to that. It would be

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Speaker 1: seven years. So it is a general fact of compounding

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Speaker 1: at a constant growth rate, whether it's to the average

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Speaker 1: mail or whether it's to a pine tree, or any

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Speaker 1: amount of money. By the way. Ben Franklin was aware

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Speaker 1: of this, and I forget that I read it once

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Speaker 1: in his autobiography or his essays, but he knew by

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Speaker 1: putting up a small amount of money and allowing it

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Speaker 1: to be handled in a charitable trust, which is relatively

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Speaker 1: new in that time, you can get a lot of

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Speaker 1: the kind of trust that we have today. I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether Franklins dudes funded that way, but the idea

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Speaker 1: of using that for your own wealth, that's a whole

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Speaker 1: way beyond an ordinary lifespan of seventy eight or eighty

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Speaker 1: or so years is the proposition before us. I had

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Speaker 1: to look it up. But life expectancy in the United

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Speaker 1: States fell in the last couple of years to seventy

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Speaker 1: seven in twenty twenty and now seventy six. But that's

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Speaker 1: an average between men and women in twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: And men still die at you know, die younger than women.

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Speaker 1: And so then you had this whole other thing about

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Speaker 1: spousal support, and then you've got one of right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: those there's a whole thing. They're about some of these

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Speaker 1: um places where women are feeling great at seventy five,

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Speaker 1: but there's no men around for them to form. There's

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Speaker 1: very few men that they compete a lot for companionship

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Speaker 1: amongst males because their life expectancy is much better, especially

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Speaker 1: if they got good healthcare. But I have some good

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Speaker 1: news here. I just found this study came out a

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Speaker 1: couple of days ago. I read studies for fun and

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Speaker 1: I keep stats, and it's out of Harvard. It's in

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Speaker 1: the journal American Medical Associations Internal Medicine said healthy eating

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Speaker 1: pattern eating patterns in risk of total and cause specific mortality.

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Speaker 1: What it found was looking at over one hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: men and women non causal Study Associative for several years.

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Speaker 1: There were average fifty years plus. That they simply live

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Speaker 1: longer if they ate the things your doctor tells you

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Speaker 1: to eat, lots of raw fruits and vegetables and seeds

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Speaker 1: and nuts and healthy oils and fast like and basically

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Speaker 1: the Mediterranean diet. So I think a lot of that

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Speaker 1: went the other way. During COVID the diets didn't improve,

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Speaker 1: and it was doing an alcohol and so forth that

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Speaker 1: might act for that. Too much uber eats. You know,

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Speaker 1: I got too easy. By the way, Have you seen that?

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Speaker 1: Do you know why it is that men tend to

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Speaker 1: die earlier? Than their Why I heard it was because

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Speaker 1: of hormonal fact sestophenone type effects. The old joke is

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Speaker 1: a structure that the old joke is because they want

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Speaker 1: to listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight

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Speaker 1: at one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast am dot com for more