1 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Loka Tora Radio is a radiophonic novella. 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 2: Which is just a very extra way of saying a podcast. 3 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: I'm Viosa m and I am Mala Munjos. Lokatra Radio 4 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: is your Brima's favorite podcast hosted by us Mala and Viosa. 5 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: We're two ig friends turned podcast partners, breaking down pop culture, feminism, 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 2: sexual wellness, and offering fresh takes on trending topics through 7 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: nuanced interviews with up and coming LATINX creatives. 8 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: Known as Las Lokatas, Las Mammis of Myth and Bullshit 9 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: and Las Bocasrosas. We were podcasting independently since twenty sixteen, 10 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: but joined iHeartMedia's Microtura network in twenty twenty two. 11 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: This year, we're continuing to share stories from the LATINX community. 12 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: Bartol Mundo, Welcome to season eight. 13 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: Are you listening. 14 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: O la la Loka Motes. Welcome to season eight of 15 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: Loka to A Radio. I'm Theosa and I'm Mala. You're 16 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: tuning in to Capitolo Ciento Ocenza one eighty. 17 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 2: Last time on Locatra Radio, we interviewed Jean Guerrero, columnist 18 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: at the La Times. We talked to Gene about misinformation, 19 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: be algorithm, and empathy. Make sure you tune into that episode, 20 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 2: subscribe to locat to our radio, leave a review and 21 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: share with a friend. 22 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: That was one of my favorite episodes. So I'm really 23 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,279 Speaker 1: glad we were able to get Gene on. And today 24 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: we're continuing our conversation about Israel and Palestine. 25 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: So we of course want to do a good job 26 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: in covering this topic, and we did some research and 27 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 2: reached out to our journalist friends and reached out to 28 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: Palestinian activists and journalists and podcasters to see if anybody 29 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: was available to come on the episode, to come on 30 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 2: the podcast today to talk about Israel Palestine. But of 31 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: course it is a very difficult time and folks are 32 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: simply not available. This is also, for some people, not 33 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: an issue that everybody can talk about publicly, especially for Palestinians. 34 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: There is still censorship and backlash, and people are also 35 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: booked and dealing with their own crisis in the midst 36 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 2: of all of this. So we weren't able to get 37 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 2: a guest in person on the podcast today, but we're 38 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: going to instead be sharing some other information history and resources. 39 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think me personally, it feels weird and uncomfortable 40 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: to be like back to our regular programming amidst all 41 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: of this, And so even though we couldn't get a 42 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: guest today, we still wanted to take the time to 43 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: talk to y'all and do the best that we can 44 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: and talk about Palestinian and Latin American solidarity and it's 45 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: history and just some folks that we think that you 46 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: should be following throughout all of. 47 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: This, and just on the local level. On Saturday, October 48 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 2: twenty eighth here in downtown LA, thousands of people marched 49 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: through the streets of downtown Los Angeles in a show 50 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: of support for the people of Palestine. Protesters chanted demanding 51 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: a ceasefire from Israel against the people of Palestine. Folks 52 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: marched to Pershing Square and I happened to be downtown 53 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: on Fifth Street when the protests passed by, and I 54 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: was able to capture some footage and we posted a 55 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 2: video of that footage on our Look at the Radio 56 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: Instagram reels, and that video this week has started to 57 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: get some traction and is seeing a lot of comments 58 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: that span a wide variety of opinions and stances. But 59 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: it's reaching that point where you know, like the reel 60 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: is reaching random men that are not part of our 61 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: audience at all, and with that comes a lot of 62 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: strange and volt volatile comments. So we're gonna go ahead 63 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: and turn off the comments on that reel. If you 64 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 2: guys remember the last time we had a super viral 65 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: reel it was bos As no Sabo clip. 66 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've never had to turn the comments off 67 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: before on anything. And even like the Nosabo video, you know, 68 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: there was conversation happening, there was some instances where it 69 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: got wild, but we also didn't put that clip up, 70 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: We didn't turn off the comments. We were just like 71 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: letting it roll and all of that. But now, I 72 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: think the first week it was like our listeners, our 73 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: digital community commenting showing support very much being in solidarity 74 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: with Palestine. And then, like you said, it reached that 75 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: point of the Internet where it's not our listeners anymore, 76 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: it's just random people online and so there were some 77 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: pretty violent comments in there. And I told Mala today, like, 78 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: I think that we should turn the comments off because 79 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: we're not this is not for us to you necessarily 80 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: facilitate like a conversation in the comments, because it's. 81 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: Beyond that it's not possible. 82 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: It's not possible. Now, these are random strangers that are 83 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: never going to go and listen to the podcast, are 84 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 1: not going to listen to our coverage, and so I 85 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: think that it's okay to turn the comments off. We've 86 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: never had to do that before, but I think for 87 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: the sake of I see some of our listeners in 88 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: there commenting and fighting, and I'm like, I don't I 89 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: appreciate you, but like I don't want you to go 90 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,119 Speaker 1: through that right now. 91 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 2: No, and especially with the language being used, you know, 92 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: it's like people calling for acts of violence, and the 93 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: type of language is like things get flagged on the 94 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: Internet when you type and hits end, you know. And 95 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 2: so I agree, we're gonna go ahead and turn off 96 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: the comments because we just don't want that on our page. 97 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: And that's not the point of the clip was to demonstrate, 98 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 2: like Los Angeles is in solidarity with the people of Palestine, 99 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 2: and if you wish to be part of the conversation, 100 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: you want to go ahead and listen to our last 101 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: episode with Gene and maybe check out some of the 102 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: resources that we're going to talk about on today's episode. 103 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's get started with that let's get started. 104 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: So when I was in school and I was studying 105 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 2: history at the University College London, I was in their 106 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 2: history department, and we read a lot from an author 107 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: named Edward Said, who is considered one of the founders 108 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: of postcolonial studies and decolonial thought. And so when we 109 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: taught and we use the word decolonial, decolonize a lot 110 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 2: and have for like the past many years, and a 111 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 2: lot of our little community online is you know, into decolonial, this, that, 112 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: and the third. And so that even that word and 113 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: that school of thought comes from a specific group of scholars, 114 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: and Edward Said being one of them. A little background 115 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: on him. He was born in nineteen thirty five in Jerusalem, 116 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: raised in Jerusalem and Cairo, and educated in the United States, 117 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: where he attended Princeton Anne Harvard. In nineteen sixty three, 118 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: Edward Said began teaching at Columbia University, where he was 119 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: University Professor of English and Comparative Literature. He passed in 120 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: two thousand and three in New York City, and he 121 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: is the author of twenty two books, which have been 122 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: translated into thirty five languages. Most famous of his works 123 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: was probably the text Orientalism. He also wrote The Question 124 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: of Palestine, covering Islam, the World, The Text, The Critic, 125 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: Culture and Imperialism, Peace and Its Discontents, Essays on Palestine 126 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: and the Middle East Peace Process, and Out of Place, 127 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: a memoir. And beside his academic work, he also was 128 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: a columnist, and he was a regular contributor to newspapers 129 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: in Europe, Asia and the Middle East. And he was 130 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: also a music critic for the Nation. And What's interesting 131 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: and I think what also will help ground this episode, 132 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: Edward said, was very much influenced by the writings of 133 00:07:55,080 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: Martinique born psychiatrist and Algerian revolutionary Franz Finan. Of course 134 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: France Fenon writing writing in the Caribbean about the Transatlantic 135 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: slave trade, and so sayid really connecting with the Americas 136 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: and the colonial period and how that also shapes and 137 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: contributes to the world, to the economy and to the 138 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: way that we see places like the Middle East. 139 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to going back to France Phenon. I 140 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: wanted to I think one of the foundational text for 141 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: any like decolonial thinker, scholar or just someone interested in 142 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 1: this in reading more is like the Wretched of the 143 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: Earth and black skin, white masks. I know those were 144 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: foundational texts I read during my undergrad as well. 145 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 2: Yes, and if you in our history classes, we read Phenon, 146 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: we read Said, we read Caesare, and all of these 147 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: folks basically talking about the way colonization laid a foundation 148 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: for Europe to launch right itself into its industrial revolution, 149 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 2: and how the labor and the riches of you know, 150 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 2: colonized places Africa, Asia and the Americas allowed Europe to 151 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 2: become the global superpower that it ended up becoming. Right, 152 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: And so I think for us, because we're going to 153 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: be talking about Latin American solidarity, there is also this 154 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: intellectual linkage between like a Middle East scholar like Sayid 155 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 2: and Caribbean scholars in the Americas like France. Fan On 156 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 2: he was also very much involved in like the Free 157 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: Palestine movement. I mean, he was definitely vocal about the 158 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: way that colonization and the Western world view what used 159 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 2: to be called the Orient, but he includes the Middle 160 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: East and Palestine in that conversation. So go ahead and 161 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: check out. There's a lot of essays On said, and 162 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 2: his texts are available everywhere. These bios that I read 163 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: to you today were from Cambridge University Press as well 164 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: as Penguin Random House, where you can find his books. 165 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: I love that. I love a good scholarly text to read. 166 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: I think those are the types of books you want 167 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: to read with a friend, with a group, because there's 168 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: a lot to dissect and a lot to think about. 169 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: So I think having the more you can do it 170 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: in conversation with others, like the more you can really 171 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: grasp some of the theory because it's not always digestible. 172 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 2: Yes, and I. 173 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: Wanted to also plug a book written by my one 174 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: of my mentors and former journalist instructor, Sandy Tolin. He 175 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 1: wrote The Lemon Tree and he has been covering Palestine 176 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: Israel for a very long time. He is approaching it 177 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: from the angle of the fiftieth and of the first 178 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: Arab Israeli War, and so I definitely recommend that one. 179 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: He's a trusted source in journalism and in this field 180 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: of study, and so yes, check out this book, The 181 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: Lemon Tree. 182 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely. There's also some journalists you want to share, the 183 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 2: journalists that folks can follow. 184 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: If you've been following, you've probably seen these journalists go viral. 185 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: They have been documenting the daily happenings in Gaza. Iriara 186 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: is a Gaza born and raised journalist. She's currently based 187 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: in London. 188 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 2: Yesterday was the first time in my whole life I 189 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 2: didn't say good night to my mother or here if 190 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: she's alive or not. 191 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: I haven't heard from anyone in Gaza for almost twenty 192 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 3: four hours. 193 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: My family, my friend's journalists on the ground, no one, 194 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: my mom for the lost. Has had the immense struggle 195 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: of having to share what her family is going through 196 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: while being separated from them, and so she has been 197 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: going live. She has been sharing text daily and so 198 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: I definitely recommend you follow her. The second one is 199 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: The Sun. She is a journalist and filmmaker who's currently 200 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: on the ground in northern Gasa. 201 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 3: Hey everyone, this is the Suns from Gaza and who 202 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 3: are still alive. We're officially in the twenty six days 203 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 3: of the war in Gaza. People are suffering. The bombing 204 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 3: is targeting crowded places in Chavalier, in Refigi, camps, in 205 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 3: places that are the most places, the most crowded places 206 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 3: in the world. So the area of Gaza Strip is 207 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 3: about three. 208 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: And so she has also been documenting what Palestinians are 209 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: going through in the in northern Gaza. 210 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 2: Another resource to check out is the Palestinian Youth Movement. 211 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 2: They have a website there on Instagram, they describe themselves 212 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 2: as a transnational, independent grassroots movement of young Palestinians dedicated 213 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: to the liberation of our homeland and people. So this 214 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: is by no means an exhaustive list. These are just 215 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: some folks to check out, and you know, there's a 216 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 2: lot more to learn. Things continue to unfold. I know 217 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 2: that we're approving money, the United States is approving money 218 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 2: to send to Israel to further support like the Israeli military, 219 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 2: and this is one of the reasons why in our 220 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: last episode, you know, we did talk about calling your 221 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: representatives in office, your senators and as a constituent, demanding 222 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: that they call for a ceasefire and not do things 223 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 2: like vote to send more funding. 224 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: As of Thursday, November two, the House approved a nearly 225 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: fourteen point five billion military aid package for Israel, a 226 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: muscular US response to the war with Hamas, but also 227 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: a partisan approach by new Speaker Mike Johnson. So, as always, 228 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: there's a lot at play here, and this is reported 229 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: by AP News, and I think that it can feel 230 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: I think if you're born and raised in the US, 231 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: it can feel like you don't know what war feels like, 232 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: right and so, but so much as history has proven 233 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: is that there's always US intervention when war is involved, 234 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: and so it can feel like this has nothing to 235 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: do with me because you're not living it, maybe you're 236 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: not seeing it. But this is where our tax dollars 237 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: are going, and our same government is telling us there's 238 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: not enough money for Medicare for all, there's not enough 239 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: money for universal income, for student loan relief. 240 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 3: For. 241 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: Really anything that's going to give us a better quality 242 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: of life if you're working class, if you're low income, 243 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: if even if you're in the middle class. And then 244 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: we see something like this money being spent for civilians 245 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: to be murdered for a genocide, and so it can 246 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: feel like really overwhelming. And so one of the things 247 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: we can do, like Mama mentioned, and like we said 248 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: last week in our episode, is call your representative absolutely on. 249 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 2: You know, the American military budgets and budgeting and the 250 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: American military and border patrol are sort of this global presence. 251 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: I mean, the US military does not just exist in 252 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: the US. It's all over the world, and the border 253 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 2: patrol also has a hand in a lot of different 254 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 2: places in countries, and wherever you see border conflicts and 255 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: human rights abuses at borders, it's very likely that the 256 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: US Border patrol has been there and trained and provided 257 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: funding and weaponry. And that is also the case with 258 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: Israel Palestine. If you are anti abuses against migrants here 259 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 2: in the US and you're all about open the borders 260 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 2: here in the US and your anti border patrol here 261 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 2: in the US, that needs to sort of carry over 262 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 2: into the Middle East and how this conflict is playing 263 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: out over there as well. 264 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's a good segue into some 265 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: of the Latin American solidarity that we've been seeing. While 266 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: the US government has been staunchly in support of Israel, 267 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: we have seen Latin American presidents or presidents from across 268 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: Latin America show their support for Palestine. For example, Honduras, Chile, 269 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: and Colombia recalled their ambassadors from Israel, and last week 270 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: Bolivia broke ties, broke diplomatic ties with Israel. And I 271 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: think it also goes to show like it's not just 272 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: the governments that are taking stances, but also because their 273 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: people want their governments to take a certain stance. It's 274 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: not just the government making decision, but it's also like 275 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: El Pueblo Onido, like protesting and showing solidarity with Palestinians. 276 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: In Latin America, there is more in common with the 277 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 2: Arab world than like, oh, you know, like Arabic holdovers 278 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: in Spanish. Like we talk about how Spanish has a 279 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: lot of similarities to Arabic. We can talk about like 280 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 2: food like al pastor, you know what I mean. But 281 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 2: there's more than the influences on the language and in 282 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 2: the food. There's a greater history there. And they also 283 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: pulled up some really interesting history, even coming from Puerto Rico. 284 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I want to shout out the folks over 285 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: at our twenty nine Refinery twenty nine so almost they 286 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: have been doing excellent coverage about this, whereas other mainstream, 287 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: maybe more funded Latino US Latino media has not been 288 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: covering things in the same way. One of our friends 289 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: on Helica Veceera kind of called this out the other day, 290 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: like where's Latino media in all of this? You know, 291 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: where where are we and where's our stance and where's 292 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: our support with Palestine? And so I really wanted to 293 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: shout them out because they're doing such good work over there, 294 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: and so they created for this. They have this series 295 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: called Tough Translations, how to talk about and so in 296 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: the last week they posted one about ethnic cleansing, and 297 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: they have this great translation guide in English, Spanish and 298 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: Portuguese where if you're having these conversations with your families, 299 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: you know, maybe you know the language in English, but 300 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: you don't know how to talk about this in Spanish 301 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: or perhaps Portuguese, and so they have these different conversation starters, 302 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: and so I wanted to plug that in case you're 303 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: wanting to have this conversation with your family. One of 304 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: the ones conversations started. Number one is how to explain 305 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: when a group of people are experiencing ethnic cleansing. The 306 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: second one is how to explain how ethnic cleansing is 307 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: linked to genocide. And so I encourage all of you 308 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: to read this. We will link it in our newsletter 309 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: as well. In addition to the ethnic Cleansing how to 310 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: have this conversation with your family, they also shared this 311 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: post from the New York Puerto Rican Day Parade in 312 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, and it's a photo of a 313 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: banner that says US bombs tested in viek Is dropped 314 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: on Palestine, and so they cite this history. From the 315 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: nineteen forties until two thousand and three, the US military 316 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: used viek Is, a Puerto Rican island eight miles away 317 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 1: from the mainland, to train for war, using the inhabited 318 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: land to test bombs, including chemical warfare weapons like nepalm 319 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: and depleted uranium. Even after massive protests forced the US 320 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: government to stop testing in Viekas, the people in land 321 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: still struggle with the health consequences. Simultaneously, the US had 322 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: aided Israel's military with billions of dollars and munitions for 323 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: several decades, which have been used in the occupation, forced removal, 324 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: and mass killings of Palestinians for generation. With a shared 325 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: though distinct experience of colonialism, Puerto Ricans and Palestinians have 326 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: long supported and felt connected in each other's struggles for freedom. 327 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: So there in the past day there have been different 328 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: Puerto Rican journalists scholars writing about the link between Puerto 329 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: Rico and Palestine. 330 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 2: Yes, and it's I mean, it's so telling right for 331 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 2: the US government to drop bombs, to test bombs on 332 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 2: one colony to then use them irl against the people 333 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: in a different colonized place. And I think this is 334 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 2: also why it's important for us to have this conversation, 335 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: because we know our audience is, for the most part 336 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 2: somewhere in the United States. Our audience is for the 337 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 2: most part of latinx Latine Latino Latina descent, and we 338 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 2: know that our audience is pretty grounded in the colonial 339 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: history of Latin America. But are we making those connections 340 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: between our own colonial history in Latin America and the 341 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: colonial history that we're seeing continue to unfold and play 342 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 2: out in front of us in the Middle East, in Palestine. 343 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, one good example is, you know, 344 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: Chile has the largest Palestinian diaspora outside of the Middle East, 345 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: and the first Palestinian migrants arrived in Chile in the 346 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds. And so this past couple of weeks 347 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: there have been, of course, like huge numbers of solidarity 348 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: protests in Chile, and there's this really great article by 349 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: NACLA called Somos sur Mapuche and Palestinian Chileans stand in 350 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: Solidarity with Gaza, And there was a concert actually organized 351 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,199 Speaker 1: to raise funds and our past guests. Anna Tijou was 352 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 1: one of the people performing, and she's long been advocating 353 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: for Palestinian freedom. And so I think that that's just 354 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: another example of how Latin Americans have this long tradition 355 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: of Latin American people right outside of the government, Latin 356 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: American people, particularly working class people, have been in solidarity 357 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: with anyone that's like subjugated to violence, to any type 358 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: of racism, classism. They're able to make these connections in 359 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: ways that it might take us a little longer to 360 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: catch up, but we can. We can still do it now. 361 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 2: And I think so I reached out to a friend 362 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 2: of mine about how to cover this issue right and 363 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 2: something that she said is something I've been hearing from 364 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: Latina organizers is the need to counter Christian Zionism in 365 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 2: their communities. So I think with us in particular, you 366 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: might have Latinos who are like, Okay, we get it, 367 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 2: like colonization is bad, like decolonize in the Americas, Like 368 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 2: that's fabulous, that's why our focus has been But then 369 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 2: at the same time, that same person might have even 370 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 2: without necessarily realizing it, because we don't examine this with 371 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 2: than ourselves necessarily, but that person might be decolonial when 372 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: it comes to our own territories and people here in 373 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 2: the US, but because of a religious upbringing, a religious 374 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 2: Latino upbringing, may actually be centering like Christianity and Christian Zionism, 375 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: and that could really be influencing the way one feels 376 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 2: and talks about Israel, Palestine and that kind of protective 377 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 2: factor over Israel that a lot of people tend to 378 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 2: feel because of that like Christian connection. So you know, 379 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 2: when it comes to family and friends, this is not 380 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 2: an issue that is going to resolve itself anytime soon, 381 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 2: and it is an issue that has been going on 382 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 2: now for many decades. So I think like when it 383 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 2: comes to that kind of culture shift, it's like little 384 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: by little and continuing to learn and to share, not 385 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 2: just now, but kind of like making this part of 386 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 2: your frame, you know, like as you continue and you 387 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 2: you think of yourself as an activist or you think 388 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 2: of yourself as someone who is like pushing for decolonization 389 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 2: or whatever, like include this, you know in your global 390 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: framework and your understanding of the world and how things work. 391 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that because there's this. I saw this 392 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: post and I wanted to bring it up today. And 393 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: this account is the account is take Dot back Dot 394 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: the Internet and it's on Instagram and it's this writer 395 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: named Nima that runs it. And they shared this substack 396 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: that they wrote and they posted about it, and it's 397 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: titled the Internet Determines what is remembered and who is forgotten? 398 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: And I thought it was a really good way to 399 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: think about us and how we feel, how sometimes we 400 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: can feel like, but is the post gonna Is it 401 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: going to do anything? Is it going to help anyone? 402 00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 3: Right? 403 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: And even and if we feel that we can't change 404 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: anything with a post, I do think that it has 405 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: a way of kind of planting a seed. It's like, 406 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: once you see something, you can't really unsee it, and 407 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: it stays in our collective thought in the same way 408 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty has stayed in our collective thought the pandemic 409 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: and everything that came afterwards, Like we may be trying 410 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: to go back to some type of normal, but we're 411 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: not going to forget what we live through via the 412 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: during the pandemic and then also during the civil uprisings, 413 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: and so maybe the diversity initiatives they've been defunded. Maybe 414 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: things have felt like back to before twenty twenty. But 415 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: people remember, and they still talk about it, and they 416 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: still feel and it's one of those things where it's 417 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: a continuous unlearning and relearning of how we view the 418 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: world and how we view ourselves, especially as people in 419 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: the US, and how we position ourselves in solidarity and 420 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: in movements during crisis. 421 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 2: I think about too, like we've talked about this in 422 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,239 Speaker 2: the past, how I think the best way to make 423 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: an impact in the world is with your immediate circle 424 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 2: of influence and like who is like literally most accessible 425 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 2: to you and most likely to listen to you. And 426 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 2: it's the type of thing where if you're a teacher, 427 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 2: or if you're a mom or a dad or a coach, 428 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 2: and you have folks that like, you know, you have 429 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: a position of influence in your family or your in 430 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 2: your community, in your school, in your office, wherever you are. 431 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 2: It's the type of thing that you never know, like 432 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 2: you you just said, you never know what you say 433 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 2: or what you share, and how that might create a 434 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 2: domino effect and maybe lead someone else to like read more, 435 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 2: you know, or look look in look further into the 436 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 2: issue that you're talking about. And I always think about 437 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 2: like raising kids and I think, you know, there's always 438 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 2: the post stability that your kid can go on to 439 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 2: do like amazing, wonderful things for the world, but also 440 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 2: your kid can go on to do terrible things, you know. 441 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: And so if we try and like infuse like what 442 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 2: Gene was talking about on the last episode, we infuse 443 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 2: like our declonial thinking empathy, and we just make it 444 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: part of and this is a word we don't use 445 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 2: as much anymore, but we make it part of our praxis. 446 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 2: This is just how I think. I'm against funding for LAPD, 447 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 2: I always will be, and I am against the genocide 448 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 2: of the Palestinian people. And we can see how these 449 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 2: things are related, and we want Puerto Rico to be free, 450 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 2: you know, like this can just become part of how 451 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 2: we carry ourselves through the world, because these issues are 452 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: not going to resolve tomorrow. This is ongoing. Do you 453 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 2: want to raise like empathetics, socially aware like people, or 454 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 2: do you want to raise people who are going to 455 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 2: go and work for border patrol? 456 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: It does happen. Somebody that I know was saying that 457 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: their brother was looking at a job for LAPD just 458 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: because they were just looking looking at and I was like, 459 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: your sibling cannot work for LAPD. Like you know that, 460 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: like one, they are a sweet, loving person, they cannot 461 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: work for LAPD, right, And I would advocate that for 462 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: anybody that I care about, like no, like there are 463 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: so many different options, there's so many different employers, like 464 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: let's talk about it. 465 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 2: Right, And I very much. You know, I have a 466 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 2: brother and I think one of the only reasons he 467 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 2: never looked into law enforcement is my dad very much 468 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: raised us there. It was a continuous thing in the house. 469 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 2: Part of his activism carried over to we don't fuck 470 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 2: with cops and don't talk to the cops, and this 471 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 2: is where cops come from, this is what cops do, 472 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 2: and this is why we have cops, and so growing up, 473 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: once it came time to be adults and decide what 474 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: we're doing with our lives, we have that in our minds, right, 475 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 2: and no one is touching that. 476 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, It's like it's it's beyond an ideology. 477 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: It's beyond saying something. It's how we move through the 478 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: world and how we influence the people around us, and 479 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: how we really walk the talk in those ways which 480 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: I think we've been saying for the last seven years. Right, 481 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: it's how we actually show up, and it doesn't. I 482 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: think a lot of us, maybe right now, feel like, well, 483 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to be performative, but Palacinians are asking 484 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: us like post and share, like there's so much misinformation, 485 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: like people don't believe what we're going through, like please share, 486 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: and so like do it. Like the post may feel 487 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: like you're shouting into the void, but this is also 488 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: what people are asking of us. 489 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: Yes, and it's important to remember like that the folks 490 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 2: who are being most victimized, right, that it's what they're 491 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 2: asking for and not like what we think we should 492 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: be doing. Right, and like Yosa saying like this is 493 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,719 Speaker 2: what the folks most affected are asking. So that's like 494 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 2: that's how we should be taking our cues. 495 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I did want to add this mental health 496 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: aspect of it because I saw this post by this 497 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: licensed therapist. Her instagram is your Inner Light Therapy, and 498 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: she's talking about western mental health practices and how everything 499 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: is like you don't owe anybody anything, and how it's 500 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: such an individualistic mindset at the center to say that 501 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: when it comes to genocide, like well, my mental health 502 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: can't handle it. Yes, Like we should not be desensitized 503 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: to seeing dead bodies, dead children. Absolutely, But what she's 504 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: saying is we do owe each other. We owe each 505 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: other dignity and humanity. We have a collective responsibility to 506 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: stand against all injustice and oppression. Humanity depends on it. 507 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: And so I did want to add that mental health 508 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: piece to it, where yes, it can feel super overwhelming 509 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: and you're thinking to protect my mental health, I can't 510 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: see it. That's valid. But I think also it doesn't 511 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: shouldn't stop us from acting right the seeing things and 512 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: consuming that's one angle of it, but from acting and 513 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: doing action like we have to continue doing it. 514 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 2: I think the best way to figure out what those 515 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: actions are right is like, who are the folks organizing 516 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 2: and on the ground, like Palestinian Americans or organizing protests 517 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 2: like the one we described here in downtown LA Like, 518 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 2: and I know a bunch of folks have been showing 519 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 2: up for those protests, people that we know, which is 520 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 2: great to see. And I kind of this reminds me 521 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 2: of a couple of years ago there was a moment 522 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 2: where people during Black Lives Matter protests, I feel like 523 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: a lot of people were posting those individual black squares, right, 524 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 2: And then there were black activists who were like, who 525 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 2: asked you to do that? Like when nobody asked you, 526 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 2: you're crowding the feeds and the algorithm with nothingness as 527 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 2: opposed to information or a call to action or a 528 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 2: direction to a resource. It's a nothing but a lot 529 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 2: of people that was their show of solidarity. But like 530 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,479 Speaker 2: the folks organizing the protests and black people in general, 531 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 2: we're not asking for that particular display, you know, Right, 532 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 2: So I think in this particular situation with our audience, 533 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 2: I would say, like, don't fight people in the comments. 534 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:15,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. 535 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 2: I think that's the uncalled for. Nobody asked for that, 536 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: and I think that is gonna be the last, the 537 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 2: least helpful action. 538 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 539 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 2: You know, we don't know who you're arguing with. They 540 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 2: could be bots. 541 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: They could be bots. 542 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 2: It could literally be a bot that you're arguing with. 543 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And some of the going back to the top 544 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: of the conversation where we talked about some of the 545 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: violent comments we were seeing. You know, I wasn't looking 546 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: at their profiles intensely, but I was just seeing like 547 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: you know, no name accounts, cartoon avatars as their photos, 548 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: like zero posts, you know, and so yeah, those are 549 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: not You're gonna have more of an impact with your abulita. 550 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: You're going to have more of an impact with your neighbor, 551 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: with your class mate than with an internet troll, with your. 552 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 2: Young cousin who's thinking of joining the military. 553 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: Yep, it's true. 554 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 2: Like, talk to those people, talk to those people who 555 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: probably love you and respect you and see you all the. 556 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: Time, and they'll listen to you. 557 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, those are the harder conversations to have, Actually, 558 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 2: they really are. They're much harder than arguing with like 559 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 2: a Rando account on Instagram. 560 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I have been trying to have this 561 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: conversation with a relative of mine and we're on we 562 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: have different views, and so it's one of these things where, like, 563 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: our relationship is so important to me, I want to 564 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: protect it. I don't want us to have a fallout 565 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: because of our different viewpoints. But it's also really important 566 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: that we talk about this, And so it's something that 567 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm dealing with right now in my family. It's a struggle, 568 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of us are trying to 569 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: figure out how to navigate it. But I say that 570 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: because it's more important to have those conversations than with 571 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: a random on the internet who already has their mind 572 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: made up. And I think when going back to the 573 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: previous episode of the Jin Guerrero, when she's talking about 574 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: empathy and thinking about where these people that are have 575 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: been radicalized, where they're getting their information, I don't think 576 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 1: she's telling us to talk to a stranger. She's telling 577 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: us to talk to people in our lives. 578 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 2: One hundred percent. One hundred percent. And I think that's 579 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 2: been something that we've been consistent in our messaging over 580 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 2: the years as well. It's like, you know, we're not 581 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 2: the only ones with family that might be considering law 582 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 2: enforcement or military. There's a lot of Latinos who have 583 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 2: law enforcement in military and veterans in the family. Like, 584 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 2: there's a lot, It's very common. And I think that 585 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 2: oftentimes when we see people in our community doing a 586 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 2: lot of infighting online and coming at each other in 587 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 2: the comments, I think, really what you're doing is it's 588 00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 2: like you're you're avoiding the real conversation with with your 589 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 2: real family, where you have to look people in the 590 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 2: eye and state your case, and instead you're redirecting that 591 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 2: energy in the comments with someone you probably have actually 592 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 2: no connection with in person and no influence over and 593 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 2: no relationship too. It's easier to pick fights online than 594 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 2: like over the dinner table. 595 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yes, I have had many an uncomfortable dinner. 596 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we both had, don't get me wrong. 597 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: But really something that I've never I don't want to 598 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: say never, because maybe I did in my early twenties 599 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: and I don't really remember. But I think in the 600 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: last couple of years I really have not had like 601 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: any type of disagreement argument with someone online. 602 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,919 Speaker 2: No. And the reason why I bring this up is, yeah, 603 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 2: we were fighting on the internet years ago. Yes, and 604 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 2: now we're on the other side of it. It's like, 605 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 2: did it. I get it, I've felt the feelings. I 606 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 2: get it. I did it, And that's why I'm saying 607 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 2: you can get beyond it. Yeah. 608 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: It is. I think part of your rite of passage 609 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: when you're like this, like energetic, enraged, young twenty year 610 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: old and you feel like you have your whole life 611 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: ahead of you, which you do. We all do. But 612 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: you feel like I want to change the world, and 613 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: we all do. We still do. But I think you 614 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: learn to channel it differently. Yes, And I think during 615 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,919 Speaker 1: you know, when we were covering the civil unrest during 616 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. We did talk about like what our roles 617 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: are in movements? Right? Like for us, maybe it's not 618 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: going to a march, Maybe it's not going Maybe it's 619 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: you can amplify, you can share, you can invite people. 620 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: But is that what you physically want to do? 621 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 2: Is that what you. 622 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: Actually would feel safe for you? If it's not, what 623 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 1: are the other ways? 624 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 2: Are you? 625 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,359 Speaker 1: Like organizing a little phone bank with your family and 626 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: you're calling your representative together, Like that's something my mom 627 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: and I did. I was like, we're going to spend 628 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: ten minutes and we're going to do this together. Yeah, 629 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: And is it creating art? Is it creating a podcast 630 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: episode about it? Like? What are our roles? They're not 631 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: all the same, and we don't have to do what 632 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: other people are doing. We can find our own little 633 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: way totally to help and be active totally. 634 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 2: And you never know what issue might actually kind of 635 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 2: spark your family's interests. I remember one time I was 636 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 2: sitting watching the news with my mom and my grandma 637 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 2: and there was some incident in Orange County of like 638 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 2: an off duty police officer like pulling a gun on 639 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 2: a group of kids and like grabbing one of the 640 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 2: kids in rough housing and they were like brown and 641 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 2: black kids, and this was like a white off duty officer. 642 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 2: And I remember vividly we were still on Twitter at 643 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 2: the time, and so all this was folding unfolding on 644 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 2: the news and then on Twitter there was this call 645 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 2: like to call the police station where this officer worked 646 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 2: in Orange County and say, we saw the video, We 647 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,800 Speaker 2: want this person fired, we want this person disciplined, whatever. 648 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 2: And I remember my mom and my grandma having seen 649 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 2: the children being affected in this way, and they're not 650 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 2: usually they're not like staunchly anti police, you know, and 651 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 2: working on them, but it's a process. But that they 652 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 2: saw the police brutality against these children with their backpacks on, 653 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 2: and that was enough for them to want to do 654 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 2: something about it. And I told them, well, there's a 655 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 2: phone number and people are calling the police station. And 656 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 2: so we sat there and we called the police station, 657 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 2: and they wanted to leave messages. So you know, you 658 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 2: may think like, oh, my my parents are my my 659 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 2: family is not. They're not activists or they're not on 660 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 2: the side, but you never know, right like where that 661 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 2: empathy comes in and what might move people to want 662 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 2: to act and to speak. I think that's this great 663 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 2: place to wrap up. Thank you all for listening. 664 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening to another episode of Look 665 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: at Dora Radio. We do, we do want to have 666 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,760 Speaker 1: a guest, you know, to continue talking about this issue. 667 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,760 Speaker 1: So if you know someone or you are someone, email 668 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: us at Ola at lokatradio dot com and we can't 669 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: we talk about a future episode. Thank you so much 670 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: for tuning in week after week. We hope you liked 671 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: this episode. We hope you learned something new. Let us 672 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:08,439 Speaker 1: know what you think. 673 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 2: Us lok I thought. Our Radio, a radio fanic novela, 674 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 2: is executive produced and hosted by me Mala Munios and viosa. 675 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 1: Fam story editing by me tiosa. 676 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 2: Audio editing by Stephanie Franco. 677 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,800 Speaker 1: Thank you to our locmoves, our listeners for all of 678 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 1: your support