Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
Speaker 1: and speaker.
Speaker 2: And I'm Sarah hart Unger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
Speaker 2: and course creator. We are two working parents who love
Speaker 2: our careers and our families.
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
Speaker 1: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. In
Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to be talking about media in general,
Speaker 1: how we curate our media consumption, not just social media.
Speaker 1: I know we've talked about social media a lot, but
Speaker 1: all the other kinds of media out there. How we
Speaker 1: can make this a more intentional part of our lives.
Speaker 1: And I know this is something that Sarah has been
Speaker 1: very passionate about. So Sarah, maybe you could share with
Speaker 1: our listeners what you're thinking is on this and why
Speaker 1: media curation is a good part of a busy life.
Speaker 2: Yes, full disclosure, this episode is is about my current obsession,
Speaker 2: not necessarily anyone else's. But I still think media and
Speaker 2: our use of time around. Media does impact us all
Speaker 2: on a daily basis, So I think it's where it's
Speaker 2: spending some time diving into and thinking about. And by
Speaker 2: the way, I'm not talking about social media. We will
Speaker 2: talk about social media because social media is a form
Speaker 2: of media, so it's certainly included, and it is a
Speaker 2: form that for some people it crowds out other things
Speaker 2: they want to do media wise or otherwise. But that
Speaker 2: this is not a social media themed episode. I'm more
Speaker 2: talking about like what do you watch, what do you read,
Speaker 2: what do you listen to? What do you choose to
Speaker 2: consume in your downtime? And is there a lot of
Speaker 2: intentionality there? Is it just whatever's in front of your face?
Speaker 2: Where is the time actually going? Are you getting the
Speaker 2: most enjoyment out of your media consumption as you can?
Speaker 2: And I don't remember where I first started thinking about this,
Speaker 2: but once I did, it just became something I'm very
Speaker 2: interested in, to the point where I have started tracking
Speaker 2: my media. So you guys know, I have a daily planner.
Speaker 2: I love having like a little page for every single
Speaker 2: day in my home Bunichi cousin where I write down
Speaker 2: my schedule kind of my task for the day, different metrics.
Speaker 2: I want to hit things like that. But one thing,
Speaker 2: I had a lot of space on that page, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, it will be fun. I'll just
Speaker 2: like see what podcasts I listened to and like what
Speaker 2: I read. And I realized, like, oh, I want to
Speaker 2: track my media consumption and just kind of see what
Speaker 2: it is. And I was surprised by two things. One
Speaker 2: how much we do listen to on autopilot, Like you know,
Speaker 2: you just listen to whatever podcast comes up next, like
Speaker 2: you didn't actively choose it.
Speaker 1: So that was interesting.
Speaker 2: But also the sheer volume of media that I consume
Speaker 2: and I'm sure we all consume. And I consider myself
Speaker 2: a pretty busy person and yet sometimes like the list
Speaker 2: of like people talking at me things I read, it
Speaker 2: was pretty sizable at the end of certain days with
Speaker 2: not a lot of awareness around that. So I think
Speaker 2: putting it onto paper has been super interesting for me.
Speaker 2: And so then I asked, Laura, like you do all
Speaker 2: this time tracking you know where every single like half
Speaker 2: hour of your life goes back spanning years. Are you
Speaker 2: tracking your media in there or is this something you've
Speaker 2: ever thought about?
Speaker 1: So, I mean the short answer is no, not so much.
Speaker 1: I mean I do. If I'm watching TV, for instance,
Speaker 1: I tend to put what it is just because it's
Speaker 1: so rare that I do it. It's almost always a
Speaker 1: sports kind of thing, so it'd be like watch Eagles
Speaker 1: watch seventy six ers, so that will be like TV
Speaker 1: slash seventy six ers, right, That's what I would put,
Speaker 1: so I would know what I was watching in that case.
Speaker 1: For reading, I usually just put read on my log
Speaker 1: I don't put what it is, except if it's something
Speaker 1: that like if I've just finished something big, right, like
Speaker 1: would I finish Kristin Lavren's Daughter, that's you know, I
Speaker 1: put like finish kl you know, as an entry because
Speaker 1: that took many, many hours, it's like a fifteen hundred
Speaker 1: page book. Or when I finished Warren Piece, like finished WNPAA,
Speaker 1: because I felt that needed a little bit more acknowledgment
Speaker 1: than just read. I did track my books for a
Speaker 1: couple of years, so I went through something of a
Speaker 1: reading renaissance in the year at twenty seventeen and twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen where I decided to just check off a lot
Speaker 1: of books that had been on my book bucket list.
Speaker 1: So I wrote down what I was reading and have
Speaker 1: that list somewhere and then I don't know, I guess
Speaker 1: like by twenty nineteen, I kind of let it go
Speaker 1: and then learned I was pregnant with Henry and just
Speaker 1: kind of lost energy for a lot of things. So
Speaker 1: the book reading and tracking took a little bit of
Speaker 1: a news dive at that point. But you know, then
Speaker 1: by twenty twenty one, I was doing my reading projects again,
Speaker 1: where I read Warren Piece over the course of the
Speaker 1: year and twenty twenty two Shakespeare twenty twenty three Jane Austin,
Speaker 1: so that I was tracking in the sense that I
Speaker 1: wanted to know what I had I read for that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I hadn't really thought about what media do
Speaker 1: I consume in an average day. I was thinking about
Speaker 1: this this morning as we were getting ready to record this.
Speaker 1: We had a little bit of time before we were recording,
Speaker 1: and I thought about, well, what was I sitting here
Speaker 1: reading for like thirty minutes in the morning, And it's
Speaker 1: various newsletters. It's newsletters and blogs. So I read like
Speaker 1: Matt Iglesias's slow, boring newsletter most mornings. That's actually what
Speaker 1: I'd recommend to people.
Speaker 2: The title, by the way, She's not like knocking the
Speaker 2: news letter.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's not slow and boring. It's and he doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it's tongue in cheek because slow boring does sound
Speaker 1: like whatever. But it's about things change, like through the
Speaker 1: slow boring of hardwoods or something like that. Right, it's
Speaker 1: making small progress into big problems, and it's about various
Speaker 1: public policy things. He's always a little contrarian, which is
Speaker 1: what I like. I don't know if our politics would
Speaker 1: be the same at all, but I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: what he's saying, and so i'd throw that out there
Speaker 1: as a recommendation. I often read Emily Oster. You know,
Speaker 1: I obviously read your blog, Sarah. I read The Frugal Girl.
Speaker 1: I read a couple others. You know, we've talked about
Speaker 1: optimistic musings. I read Grateful K, I read Lisa, You're
Speaker 1: you know, all these regular bloggers that have become friends
Speaker 1: of the show over the years. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I consume a lot too. I'm sure. I just, you know,
Speaker 1: have not really tracked it. So maybe I will.
Speaker 2: Maybe you will. Oh wow, wow, that's interesting that I
Speaker 2: didn't get that as your first take when you responded
Speaker 2: to these notes. But I'm excited that maybe it's growing
Speaker 2: on you. I'm not advocating that everybody track every single
Speaker 2: piece of media that goes in every day, but I
Speaker 2: do think it could be one of those things like
Speaker 2: timetrack and where you do it every once in a
Speaker 2: while to pay more attention. I admit that when I
Speaker 2: read blogs specifically, I just write on my little log
Speaker 2: I make a W meaning like websites. I don't know
Speaker 2: I would do B, but I b as already books,
Speaker 2: so and then I just write, like read feed lea
Speaker 2: blogs because I use feed lee as my aggregator and
Speaker 2: just kind of read the ones that I subscribe to.
Speaker 2: All Right, so we are going to talk about social media,
Speaker 2: even though I said this is not an episode about
Speaker 2: social media, because it is one very common, very ubiquitous
Speaker 2: form of media in this day and age, and Laura
Speaker 2: and I also have different takes and feelings about it.
Speaker 2: So I think it's like good to kind of share
Speaker 2: both of our experiences around this because there is no
Speaker 2: one right answer regarding any of these forms of media.
Speaker 2: By the way, I just think it deserves some reflection
Speaker 2: for each of us. So I've shared my social media
Speaker 2: journey a bit before on this podcast. I think more
Speaker 2: unbeest laid plans. But I quit Facebook in twenty sixteen
Speaker 2: when I sensed the level of general vitriol going up,
Speaker 2: but also because I found myself very addicted to reading
Speaker 2: like physician, mommy group stuff. There's something about that particular
Speaker 2: form of like bulletin board style media that ropes me
Speaker 2: in and does not let me go. Like you know,
Speaker 2: some people have issues with alcohol, some people have issues
Speaker 2: with sugar. I know that is something I am like
Speaker 2: very bad with, and so I was like, I am
Speaker 2: better off without this temptation in my life and Facebook.
Speaker 2: But then Instagram was just becoming popular, and by twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one, some of that very same energy was gripping me.
Speaker 2: With Instagram. I get very COMPARI I get I don't know,
Speaker 2: I just it awakens something very bad in me. And
Speaker 2: I also find it just like very hard to turn
Speaker 2: off the phone once I start. And so in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one, I put in a way message up on
Speaker 2: Instagram that was like I think I'm leaving. I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's like my last post I've never posted since then
Speaker 2: you can look at it. I don't go in there.
Speaker 2: And then it had the thing that was key for
Speaker 2: me because I knew that like, yes, some people might
Speaker 2: look me up on Instagram and I didn't have a
Speaker 2: business at that point, but like I had a podcast
Speaker 2: and I wanted people to be able to find me.
Speaker 2: So I just put up all the links and then
Speaker 2: was like, goodbye, I'm not opening this ever again, and
Speaker 2: I really haven't. I will click on a link if
Speaker 2: someone sends me something, and then that automatically opens it,
Speaker 2: but then I'm like so terrified of going back to
Speaker 2: the more addictive place that I just like I have
Speaker 2: no desire to and I just like close it immediately.
Speaker 2: So I really don't do any social media, and I
Speaker 2: do feel like I'm weird, like I don't I know
Speaker 2: that many people in the same boat who don't post it,
Speaker 2: but also like don't consume it. I never got into TikTok.
Speaker 2: I do love podcasts, I love blogs. I watch a
Speaker 2: little bit of YouTube for very specific niche stuff, but
Speaker 2: it never had that kind of pull on me. I
Speaker 2: think because videos like it's a little slower, I can't
Speaker 2: consume it at that like obscene pace or I don't
Speaker 2: want to, and that never was like a problem for me.
Speaker 2: So I do it every once in a while, But
Speaker 2: that's my social media story, and I can honestly say
Speaker 2: for me, and I'm not saying for you, for Laura,
Speaker 2: for any of you listening that this is like your journey,
Speaker 2: but for me, that was one hundred percent of the
Speaker 2: right call. I am a happier human without it, period.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say social media has actually been like
Speaker 1: saving me the past few days. If if my voice
Speaker 1: sounds funny, this is our second episode that I'm recording
Speaker 1: from my bed, so I apologize for the sound quality here,
Speaker 1: but been a bit debilitated with some back and leg pain,
Speaker 1: so recording this from up here, and when you are bedbound,
Speaker 1: it's hard to do much. And I don't actually have
Speaker 1: a TV in my so I've been doing a lot
Speaker 1: of social media consumption, but you know, it is what
Speaker 1: it is. I don't find Facebook all that appealing anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but Instagram's starting to
Speaker 1: have some of that same energy. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: getting a lot more videos and ads of things I
Speaker 1: didn't ask for. I've tried to be better about curating it,
Speaker 1: like going to post like on dollhouse furniture, which I like.
Speaker 1: I was like the Mega Family posts. There's some really
Speaker 1: funny ones, like the fit Dad CEO on Instagram. I
Speaker 1: anyone wants to check him out, He's pretty funny and Twitter.
Speaker 1: I just like hearing the variety of voices on different
Speaker 1: news topics because again, I follow people all over in everything.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just kind of want to hear
Speaker 1: what people are saying, which we want to have. When
Speaker 1: listeners like I can't believe you follow this person, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: is it better to not know what they're saying. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's an endorsement to see what they're doing.
Speaker 1: But you know, anyway, when I'm in my normal life,
Speaker 1: I do try to have other things that I do first,
Speaker 1: so it's not all my time. So partly some of
Speaker 1: that is about having total brainless books to read or
Speaker 1: look at pretty pictures, Like I like to check out
Speaker 1: coffee table books from the library so I can look
Speaker 1: at those. I like to do my puzzles. You know,
Speaker 1: I think I'm more of a moderator on it, Sarah
Speaker 1: as an abstainer, I'm a moderator at this point. I
Speaker 1: don't feel like it's a problem if in my life,
Speaker 1: like if I'm not getting other things done because I'm
Speaker 1: on social media or not hanging out with my family
Speaker 1: or something because I'm on social media, then it would
Speaker 1: be time to examine it. But so far it just
Speaker 1: sort of fits in the crevices of life as just,
Speaker 1: you know, something to pass the time, and even the
Speaker 1: busy people sometimes need something to pass the time. So
Speaker 1: questions about media in general, Sarah, how do you keep
Speaker 1: track of things that you might want to read or
Speaker 1: listen to or watch in the future.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love doing this. I feel like thinking about
Speaker 2: what I want to read and to some degree watch
Speaker 2: in advance ends up enhancing my experience of reading or
Speaker 2: watching said thing. Don't that would be true for everyone,
Speaker 2: But part of it is just that if you are
Speaker 2: curating your reading list and getting your stuff from sources
Speaker 2: that work for you, you're probably gonna end up reading
Speaker 2: things that you end up really liking. And so I've
Speaker 2: always had a to B red list going that I
Speaker 2: would keep track of. This also helps because I get
Speaker 2: a lot of books from the library, and if you
Speaker 2: kind of have to play the library Holds game of
Speaker 2: like how long things are going to take, you kind
Speaker 2: of need to think a little bit ahead. Obviously, you
Speaker 2: could also purchase books and get them very quickly or
Speaker 2: instantly if you go to a actual bookstore, but if
Speaker 2: you are using the library, thinking ahead is helpful. And
Speaker 2: so this year I'm doing it a little different where
Speaker 2: I'm trying to like curate a list by season with
Speaker 2: like a little bit of a theme, a very loose theme,
Speaker 2: which like this season I'm trying to read like other
Speaker 2: people's twenty twenty three favorites, and then like I think
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do like backlist in the spring or whatever.
Speaker 2: We've had Friend of the podcast and Boggle on before
Speaker 2: I think a couple of times I often use her
Speaker 2: reading list to get a lot of inspiration for mine,
Speaker 2: and then I just keep track of it either on
Speaker 2: like a paper or on my blog. I actually haven't
Speaker 2: even made my twenty twenty four books page. Maybe I
Speaker 2: will by the time this comes out, but I have
Speaker 2: it in a paper form for myself currently and then
Speaker 2: for watching. I have gotten in the habit and this
Speaker 2: is like part of my seasonal planning is all just
Speaker 2: google like movies and shows coming out and see if
Speaker 2: there's anything that looks really really fun and exciting, like
Speaker 2: I'm gonna see Mean Girls this weekend. So I have
Speaker 2: been looking forward to that, and I've gotten my kids
Speaker 2: to look forward to that, and just knowing that it's
Speaker 2: there has been just a little bit of fun and
Speaker 2: an anticipation never killed anyone, right, Like you get the
Speaker 2: anticipatory yourself, even with things like watching a movie if
Speaker 2: you know about them advance. So I've done a little
Speaker 2: just quick Google search what's coming out soon, and tried
Speaker 2: to do that every couple months.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't have a good system for this. I
Speaker 1: do track. I have my Bach calendar, my buck listening calendar,
Speaker 1: which we will talk about a little bit more in
Speaker 1: a later part of this episode. I have put down
Speaker 1: books in my planner that I know are coming out
Speaker 1: that I would like to read. But it's also so
Speaker 1: just like when I if I see something good, I'll
Speaker 1: like maybe get the free sample from Amazon on the
Speaker 1: Kindle and check it out and then often wind up
Speaker 1: buying it from there. But no, I don't have currently
Speaker 1: have a good TVR system going or anything like that.
Speaker 1: So different things again, maybe I need to start doing this,
Speaker 1: but something for the future.
Speaker 2: As an author, I think if you preorder, like if
Speaker 2: you know you love an author, and like like, let's
Speaker 2: say Laura's coming out with a new book, and you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to pre order that now. Then you
Speaker 2: don't even have to remember or keep track of it.
Speaker 2: But when it arrives, we'd be like, Ooh, I gave
Speaker 2: myself a present, and now my TVR list is like
Speaker 2: physically in front of me. So shout out to like
Speaker 2: doing pre orders to give yourself a little surprise in
Speaker 2: the future.
Speaker 1: Past self, giving a little gift to future you. Exactly.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad
Speaker 1: break and then we'll be back with a little bit
Speaker 1: more on curating your media consumption, planning your media and
Speaker 1: things that can make it a more enjoyable part of
Speaker 1: your life. So Sarah, what, We're back from our commercial
Speaker 1: break here and we're talking about ways to get more
Speaker 1: out of your media consumption, all forms of media, how
Speaker 1: you can make it a more enjoyable part of your life.
Speaker 1: This is certainly something Sarah has been focusing a lot
Speaker 1: on this year. So Sarah, what are ways that help
Speaker 1: you enjoy the media you are consuming more?
Speaker 2: So? As I already mentioned the recording, so I won't
Speaker 2: go into that, but I think that does kind of
Speaker 2: somehow help deepen the experience of enjoying it, like knowing
Speaker 2: that I'm writing it down. Don't know why, but whatever
Speaker 2: works for me. But I will say also getting into
Speaker 2: a theme or series. So just like I picked for
Speaker 2: a certain part of the year reading backless titles, I
Speaker 2: just think it's more fun and like gives it a
Speaker 2: little bit more dimension if there's like a little bit
Speaker 2: of a project aspect to it. I think the key
Speaker 2: is not being really rigid with this, like do it
Speaker 2: if it's fun, and then if something else comes up
Speaker 2: that's like really fun to consume for media, then you
Speaker 2: can pivot finding other people who also like xyz form
Speaker 2: of media is also a really fun way to enhance
Speaker 2: the experience. That's why I love book clubs. I'm in
Speaker 2: an in real life book club that I kind of
Speaker 2: started up, and then of course we have our Patreon
Speaker 2: book club where we read nonfiction titles three times a year,
Speaker 2: And honestly, anytime anybody's like I think we should start
Speaker 2: a book club, I'm like, yes, because I like to
Speaker 2: read and I like talking about books, and yeah, it's
Speaker 2: the perfect commingling of those two things.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, the Patreon one is the only book club
Speaker 1: I'm in currently, I'm open to the possibility of being
Speaker 1: in one in person. I just haven't found the right
Speaker 1: match yet. But I'm a big fan of having a
Speaker 1: project as well, and so this year I'm doing a
Speaker 1: project where I'm listening to all the works of Bach.
Speaker 1: I know a couple other people are playing along. Either
Speaker 1: they were inspired to do this by hearing me mention it,
Speaker 1: or they were thinking of doing it too, and we
Speaker 1: touch base about it. But he has over eleven hundred
Speaker 1: known works. It works out to, you know, three or
Speaker 1: so per day, and I have been creating a calendar
Speaker 1: of what I'm going to listen to each day, and
Speaker 1: it's pulling not just from like do works one through
Speaker 1: three on the first day, four through six, because as
Speaker 1: we've I think I've mentioned I here before, the first
Speaker 1: two hundred or all cantatas, which are roughly twenty minute
Speaker 1: vocal pieces, and so I would be listening to nothing
Speaker 1: but cantatas for a long long time. So I've been
Speaker 1: mixing it up, doing BWV one, which is a cantata,
Speaker 1: plus starting with the organ music, which it starts at
Speaker 1: BWV five twenty five. So I do like on the
Speaker 1: first day BWB one and BWV five twenty five and
Speaker 1: five twenty six, for instance, And that way I could
Speaker 1: get about thirty to forty minutes of listening every day
Speaker 1: and get a variety of box work instead of all
Speaker 1: of just one variety.
Speaker 2: And you created a calendar to support this correct.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, It's only actually done out through late February
Speaker 1: at this point, because I just keep trying to make
Speaker 1: sure that I'm doing it a sustainable way. I figure
Speaker 1: out how much I can listen to each day. But
Speaker 1: so far this has actually not been problematic. I'm thinking
Speaker 1: I could probably even up the number that I'm listening
Speaker 1: to each day, just to give myself a little bit
Speaker 1: of a buffer for the future and for travel and
Speaker 1: things like that. But yeah, that helps me enjoy it more.
Speaker 1: Like as I know, I'm the completest aspect of this,
Speaker 1: because you learn things when you read or listen to
Speaker 1: all of somebody's stuff as opposed to just like a
Speaker 1: little bit of their stuff. And I'm not saying there's
Speaker 1: not a place for listening to the greatest hits of anyone,
Speaker 1: Like I think that's a great way to be introduced
Speaker 1: to something. But if you are finding yourself into something right,
Speaker 1: Like you think that this person has a lot of talent,
Speaker 1: or this composer was great, or this author showed a
Speaker 1: lot of different things. In the three books I've read,
Speaker 1: you could read everything and to set that as a
Speaker 1: goal and just make sure you give yourself enough time
Speaker 1: that you will be able to get through it without
Speaker 1: inspiring a lot of resistance. So for me, a year
Speaker 1: has been good for that for the reading projects, because
Speaker 1: you tend not to have to do that much on
Speaker 1: any given day. But you know, especially if it's somebody
Speaker 1: who hasn't written quite as much, maybe you say it's
Speaker 1: like a six month project or a three month project
Speaker 1: or something like that, like ninety days of this author
Speaker 1: and get through everything and see how they're writing evolved,
Speaker 1: how they revisit themes. It just gives you more insight
Speaker 1: into them as an artist, and I think that's really cool.
Speaker 2: I almost feel like you should do like a diary
Speaker 2: of like what you're listening experiences in January versus December,
Speaker 2: because I think it'll deepen, Like you're gonna gain this
Speaker 2: like appreciation for nuances that you probably wouldn't notice having
Speaker 2: all this experience. And so that's going to be. Part
Speaker 2: of the fun is seeing how like you notice details
Speaker 2: that you might not have noticed in the beginning.
Speaker 1: I think it's super cool.
Speaker 2: I'm always interested at the beginning of every year, like
Speaker 2: what is Laura's media consumption project going to be? Because
Speaker 2: it has been that really for the last few years,
Speaker 2: and it's always interesting and it's not always what I
Speaker 2: would expect, So I think it's cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm already seeing some stuff like the I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm definitely more familiar with the kantata as an art
Speaker 1: form now than having listened to we were recording this
Speaker 1: on January eighteen. I've listened to eighteen of them, as
Speaker 1: you can imagine, And yeah, I now know how Bach
Speaker 1: handled a kantata in many ways, but you know, you
Speaker 1: also start to see how he borrowed from his own
Speaker 1: work extensively. There are a couple different you know things
Speaker 1: where I'd be listening to a kantata, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: know that, and it's because he'd later use that same
Speaker 1: theme in one of his you know, masses or bigger works.
Speaker 1: And he was a working musician. He needed something to
Speaker 1: be performed, and so he would mind what he had
Speaker 1: already created. If he thought it would work well in
Speaker 1: a future piece, and so that's that's been kind of
Speaker 1: fun to see as well. Love it well.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear the continued progress reports. All Right,
Speaker 2: So here is a challenge that I'm currently facing that
Speaker 2: I don't have a great answer to. But a lot
Speaker 2: of times I love the idea of a family movie
Speaker 2: night and all sitting down to enjoy media, enjoy TV
Speaker 2: or movie altogether. But my kids are six, almost ten,
Speaker 2: and almost twelve, and the number of things that capture
Speaker 2: all of their fancy are quite limited. We've had good
Speaker 2: success recently with Harry Potter, but then one of my
Speaker 2: kids recently was like, oh, I've seen it too many times.
Speaker 2: I don't want to keep watching these et cetera. So
Speaker 2: I mean, do you just give up? I remember Sarah
Speaker 2: from The Mom I were talking about how she held
Speaker 2: on to this idea of everybody watching the same thing
Speaker 2: for a really long time and then she just moved
Speaker 2: on from it because it was just too hard and
Speaker 2: everybody wanted to do their own thing. But I guess
Speaker 2: I don't know thoughts on this or are there certain
Speaker 2: forms that really do lens of themselves to multiple age groups?
Speaker 1: And interests. I don't know. I mean, I'm not a
Speaker 1: big TV or movie person, so I'm probably not the
Speaker 1: right person to ask on this. I do know that
Speaker 1: we took all five kids to Disney on Ice and
Speaker 1: so that was a live experience, but they all liked it,
Speaker 1: so I will throw that out as something that everyone
Speaker 1: can get into. And sometimes, yeah, things like the Harry
Speaker 1: Potter or even a really good old Disney movies, sometimes
Speaker 1: at least three of the kids or you know, four
Speaker 1: of the kids will like it too. But I will
Speaker 1: say that if you once to at least experience it
Speaker 1: with like one other family member or one or two
Speaker 1: other family members, maybe all family members might be hard
Speaker 1: to pull off, but definitely different people have some matched
Speaker 1: interests and it can be good when they can consume
Speaker 1: something to gather and so just rather than go for
Speaker 1: everyone the see if you could find like matched pairs.
Speaker 1: I know my husband does this. He will watch four
Speaker 1: movies that are coming out that he thinks some of
Speaker 1: the kids will like to see, and often Jasper and
Speaker 1: Sam would be into going to a action movie. Sometimes
Speaker 1: Alex two if it's appropriate. He'll watch for the animated
Speaker 1: movies and then take Henry and Alex and Ruth to those,
Speaker 1: and sometimes Jasper likes all movies, so he go to anything.
Speaker 1: But you know, then he's watching The Simpsons with Ruth
Speaker 1: and Young Sheldon with Ruth. He's been watching Game of
Speaker 1: Thrones with the boys. I've just I just not to
Speaker 1: worry about that too much. My older boys are basically,
Speaker 1: you know, getting toward adulthood. I can just not ponder
Speaker 1: that one too much. Something they like to do together,
Speaker 1: and I will throw out there that video games are
Speaker 1: often these days a very good way to experience media
Speaker 1: in community with other people. And I'm maybe someone listening
Speaker 1: to this sounding like, wow, that's ridiculous. Video games are
Speaker 1: like whatever, But it is how and I see this
Speaker 1: through probably because I have so many boys that it
Speaker 1: often tends to be more of a boy group type thing,
Speaker 1: though I'm sure there are many groups of girls who
Speaker 1: also enjoy lots of different video game type things. But
Speaker 1: Sam will play various games with his friends. They'll call
Speaker 1: each other on the phone and then they'll all be
Speaker 1: logged on at the same time. So that's something you know,
Speaker 1: you could do as family members as well, Like my
Speaker 1: husband and Sam and Alex will all play Fortnite together, right,
Speaker 1: the three of them will be on a team and
Speaker 1: so they can play. You know, we actually wound up
Speaker 1: with two xbox is now, so that like multiple games
Speaker 1: can be going, So yeah, you know, or Halo or
Speaker 1: anything like that. Just look into something that Minecraft for
Speaker 1: younger kids. If you can get like all of your
Speaker 1: kids playing on Minecraft simultaneously, they can be in each
Speaker 1: other's worlds or various other roadblocks games they might enjoy,
Speaker 1: you know, like theme Park, Tycoon or something that they
Speaker 1: can all try out each other's worlds. So being on
Speaker 1: the lookout for games that you don't absolutely hate and
Speaker 1: that multiple people can do together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. And I'm not judging about games either,
Speaker 2: especially if you can get everybody in the family to participate.
Speaker 2: I mean, again, there's probably only a limited set of
Speaker 2: games depending on your kids ages where that's going to
Speaker 2: be true, But there's definitely some out there, and you're right,
Speaker 2: Minecraft is definitely one of them, certain parts of roadblocks,
Speaker 2: et cetera.
Speaker 1: So that's a good point. Well, because let's talk about that.
Speaker 1: I Mean, you said a question here, how do you
Speaker 1: approach others media's choices that you might not align with,
Speaker 1: Like you know, what if your kids or your husband
Speaker 1: or whatever has media that you really are not that into,
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you do with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, in general, unless I'm trying to curate a movie
Speaker 2: night type experience, there's a lot up to each their
Speaker 2: own in our household. And like my husband watches a
Speaker 2: lot of sports, Cameron enjoys watching a lot of sports
Speaker 2: with him. So again traditional gender divide, but it is
Speaker 2: what it is. They really enjoy doing that together. And
Speaker 2: then sometimes Animall watches skincare videos on YouTube and then
Speaker 2: I can learn from her there and I will say, like,
Speaker 2: I'm not too judging unless I think it's something that's
Speaker 2: really bad for them. I am still not having my
Speaker 2: kids do social media themselves. I feel like I can
Speaker 2: see some of my own tendencies in some of my kids,
Speaker 2: and I don't need that to be an issue earlier
Speaker 2: than it needs to be. I think if it becomes
Speaker 2: a point where a child approaches me and is like,
Speaker 2: this is why I need certain access to certain social
Speaker 2: media and this is how we're going to handle it,
Speaker 2: I'm open to conversations about it. But right now that
Speaker 2: actually has not been too much of an So that
Speaker 2: is the one thing that we kind of like don't
Speaker 2: do as a family.
Speaker 1: I guess no one.
Speaker 2: No one in my family does social media.
Speaker 1: No one in your family's on social media. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sure that my husband doesn't doesn't use it all that much.
Speaker 1: I mean he checks Facebook on occasion, but not that frequently.
Speaker 1: Jasper has like Instagram and Snapchat. I don't think he
Speaker 1: actually uses it all that much. It's more of a
Speaker 1: I think interaction with friends is often done group texting,
Speaker 1: which I've found can be more hazardous in some ways
Speaker 1: than social media, but needs to be just something you
Speaker 1: deal with as a parent. I don't think Sam's been
Speaker 1: that interested in social media so far. Again, his interaction
Speaker 1: with friends is mostly through the group texting and through
Speaker 1: video game that they play together. Yeah, yeah, which is great.
Speaker 1: I think it's fun. I have found some horrendous stuff
Speaker 1: coming out of Alex's iPad on occasion when he's like
Speaker 1: watching YouTube shorts, so I've had to police that at
Speaker 1: various points. But you know, that is an ongoing battle.
Speaker 1: We've just limited the time he can have it, and
Speaker 1: that seems too and if it's affecting behavior, then it
Speaker 1: goes away. So that's generally been the judge there. You know,
Speaker 1: if kids are happy and have friends and are doing
Speaker 1: well in school and have some limits on it, like
Speaker 1: they can't have their devices overnight, then for our family
Speaker 1: that's mostly worked. Okay, I maybe have to change that.
Speaker 1: I reserve my right to change that if things go
Speaker 1: south quickly. But you know, so far that's been all
Speaker 1: right for me. So you wanted to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about if people are trying to use their phones
Speaker 1: less because they feel that it is crowding out other
Speaker 1: media experiences. Well, first, how you might start noticing that,
Speaker 1: and then what are some steps you can take.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, one thing I've heard people talk about and
Speaker 2: be very frustrated with themselves about is double devising, which
Speaker 2: is when you're like trying to watch a movie or
Speaker 2: TV show, but then you also have your phone there,
Speaker 2: and then you're actually paying attention neither, and then you
Speaker 2: miss a key part of the thing, and then you
Speaker 2: like you give up, and then you're mad because you
Speaker 2: didn't really get the experience you wanted, but you did
Speaker 2: it to yourself. So I think it can be helpful
Speaker 2: to a if phone use is something you're trying to
Speaker 2: cut down, be very very specific and physical about how
Speaker 2: you're going to separate from said device, especially if it's
Speaker 2: not yet a habit, so you know, the simplest stuff
Speaker 2: of like putting it in another room or plugging it in.
Speaker 2: I personally find an Apple Watch helps me do that
Speaker 2: much better because if someone does call, I don't have
Speaker 2: to race around looking for it. I can even answer
Speaker 2: it on my watch. So technology to solve technology's addiction
Speaker 2: to technology works for me, I don't know. And then
Speaker 2: the other thing is I think it helped me at
Speaker 2: one point to just write a manifesto of like how
Speaker 2: do I want to use this phone? Because obviously it
Speaker 2: has some awesome stuff in it. I like texting too,
Speaker 2: I like the convenience of using What's up? I like
Speaker 2: ordering food on my phone, Like I do plenty of
Speaker 2: things on my phone, But then there were things I
Speaker 2: like didn't want to be doing with them, and like
Speaker 2: double devicing is an example of something I'm like, I
Speaker 2: never want to do that. If the movie is that bad,
Speaker 2: then I need to scroll my phone. That's fine, but
Speaker 2: I can just not watch the movie and like do
Speaker 2: something else, like I hate the idea of doing that.
Speaker 2: And then there were some other behaviors that I didn't
Speaker 2: want to do, like different forms of social media, like
Speaker 2: we talked about, and I wrote it down and I
Speaker 2: thought about it and I looked at it and I
Speaker 2: had to pay a lot of attention to it. But
Speaker 2: I guess I think obviously manifestos don't work for everyone,
Speaker 2: Otherwise we'd all get be doing everything we want to
Speaker 2: do all the time, and that's not true for anyone,
Speaker 2: including me. But just cultivating that awareness of what you
Speaker 2: are looking for out of that relationship, I think can
Speaker 2: be a helpful practice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that, you know, I have a rule
Speaker 1: of effort full before effortless. And if you're just pulling
Speaker 1: out the phone out of sort of mindless habit and
Speaker 1: then doing that in lieu of other things that you
Speaker 1: would prefer to do more, just challenge yourself to do
Speaker 1: those things you'd prefer to do more first, and then
Speaker 1: you can scroll around on your phone all you want afterwards.
Speaker 1: So if you're trying to listen to great music, you know,
Speaker 1: just pull that up on your phone first and start
Speaker 1: listening to it and then you know, go scroll around.
Speaker 1: Or if you are, you know, trying to read a book,
Speaker 1: go to the Kindle app on your phone first and
Speaker 1: read for three minutes and then you can go scroll
Speaker 1: around or you know, do something off your phone and
Speaker 1: go do a puzzle for a couple of minutes. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's hard because I do get my texts on my
Speaker 1: phone and that is what I'm doing. I often notice
Speaker 1: I haven't even gone to email or web or whatever else.
Speaker 1: I'm just texting with various people while I'm doing something else.
Speaker 1: So it's hard to know about that is because that's
Speaker 1: I mean, it's relationship stuff. I'm just apparently attempting to
Speaker 1: maintain multiple relationships simultaneously in various text threads. So for
Speaker 1: any new listeners, we always end our episodes with a
Speaker 1: love of the week. I mean, we'll do a question too,
Speaker 1: But since we are kind of talking about media, we
Speaker 1: thought we'd share some of our favorite media that we've
Speaker 1: been consuming lately, kind of in lieu of our love
Speaker 1: of the week. So Sarah, let's start with your favorite
Speaker 1: books you've been reading lately.
Speaker 2: That's going to say, I don't have anything in my
Speaker 2: social media category. I'm so sorry, but it's el vandercam.
Speaker 2: Obviously that's the best account.
Speaker 1: To you follow. That's the only one you need to follow.
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2: It probably is awesome.
Speaker 1: I don't actually know.
Speaker 2: Laura has to actually text me stuff I need to
Speaker 2: know about them.
Speaker 1: Okay, screenshot stuff and text her things from social media.
Speaker 1: You gotta see this, Sarah, which I love. Keep texting me.
Speaker 2: That's always appreciated. My recent book that I loved was
Speaker 2: The Heaven and Earth Grocery Store by James McBride, and
Speaker 2: took me a little minute to get into it. His
Speaker 2: writing style is different, but it's also delightful, like he
Speaker 2: has these long, long sentences, but they're so colorful and
Speaker 2: the characters are so good. And this one happened to
Speaker 2: be set in Pennsylvania and featured a Jewish community that
Speaker 2: was like commingling with the black community, and it was awesome,
Speaker 2: like the characters were, they truly came alive. And I
Speaker 2: will read everything. Maybe that'll be a reading project I do,
Speaker 2: because I guess that's my second book I've read by him,
Speaker 2: and they've both been excellent. So that was a recent
Speaker 2: media win.
Speaker 1: So I recently reread Dave Berry's Best State Ever, which
Speaker 1: is about Florida, about Sarah's neck of the wood. So
Speaker 1: she's reading about Philadelphia and I am reading about Florida.
Speaker 1: And if people have not read Dave Berry, he's a
Speaker 1: humor writer. He wrote for the Miami Herald for many years,
Speaker 1: did a syndicated column that went ran in a lot
Speaker 1: of different newspapers around the United States. And he's funny.
Speaker 1: And this is a book about Florida and the various
Speaker 1: humorous aspects of Florida. I know many people have joked
Speaker 1: about the crime headlines that are like Florida, man does
Speaker 1: there's always something weird, right. I think it's never just
Speaker 1: you know, stealing a car. It's like stole a car
Speaker 1: with an alligator in it or something like that. You know,
Speaker 1: it just makes a little Florida angle that gets in
Speaker 1: all the national media. And so that's what this book
Speaker 1: is about. And I enjoyed rereading it. It's just funny.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you really need that. Sarah, what have you been
Speaker 1: listening to lately that you're enjoying?
Speaker 2: I have been listening to an artist called Mitzki, in
Speaker 2: part because I think she's great, and in part because
Speaker 2: we're going to a concert of hers. By the time
Speaker 2: this airs, we will have already gone. I hope it
Speaker 2: was amazing, But we haven't gone to many concerts as
Speaker 2: of late. I don't think we went to any last year,
Speaker 2: but I saw these tickets pop off and I actually
Speaker 2: bought them before the I had to go stub hub,
Speaker 2: so I was happy because they sold out pretty quick.
Speaker 2: And I also feel like I'm gonna be the oldest
Speaker 2: one there because I did notice. I had a couple
Speaker 2: of patients tell me they like Mitski, and then my
Speaker 2: daughter's like, oh, this friend at school likes her, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, is it going to be
Speaker 2: me and like a bunch of like thirteen year olds,
Speaker 2: But I don't know. The All Songs Considered crew really
Speaker 2: likes her too, so they'll probably be at least one
Speaker 2: other person of voting drinking age there. Plus my husband's
Speaker 2: going with me, so I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Well, if nothing else to drive all the thirteen year olds,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure everyone would just drop their thirteen year
Speaker 1: olds off at a concert for the night, so they're
Speaker 1: going to need a chaperone. So it'll be at least
Speaker 1: you and the chaperones, right, true. Well, I'm excited.
Speaker 2: So that's what I've been listening to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that sounds awesome. That sounds awesome. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I've been just listening to a lot of Bach. But
Speaker 1: if people want to check out one of the early
Speaker 1: cantatas from what I've already listened to, I can recommend
Speaker 1: the Ascension Oratorio, which is BWV eleven. All right, it
Speaker 1: has some pretty cool corrals in it. And enjoyed listening
Speaker 1: to that. Movies, Sarah, what are recommending? Okay, sounds good.
Speaker 2: I don't have a recommendation of movies yet. I'm just
Speaker 2: excited to go to Mean Girls and then oh, I
Speaker 2: think this comes out later in the year. But also
Speaker 2: on my to be watched with kids, and my kids
Speaker 2: are all excited about is there's a sequel to Inside
Speaker 2: Out coming out, which is a Disney Pixar and I
Speaker 2: love the first one, like, I like genuinely love it,
Speaker 2: like not just as a parent watching with her kids,
Speaker 2: but like it's awesome. So I'm excited about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I'm not much of a movie person. I
Speaker 1: can't say I have gone to much recently or planned to.
Speaker 1: But I did go to the Taylor Swift concert movie
Speaker 1: with Jasper and a friend of his, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was fun. I had seen the concert in May
Speaker 1: and it was pretty much the same thing, but I
Speaker 1: enjoy her music, and I thought it was a well
Speaker 1: staged show, so it was cool to get to see
Speaker 1: it a second time for a much cheaper price. And
Speaker 1: given that you're watching a lot on the big screen
Speaker 1: at the concert too, ias you can see her in person,
Speaker 1: but you see a lot of it's put up on
Speaker 1: the screen as well. It wasn't that different an experience
Speaker 1: of what you were watching with the movie versus that. Tugh. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the live event is wonderful in its own way, and
Speaker 1: I'm happy we went. But yeah, I'm not a movie person,
Speaker 1: so it's really good. My husband is. And this was
Speaker 1: actually a point of contention maybe early in our relationship
Speaker 1: that I wasn't that much into going to movies. In fact,
Speaker 1: the only like sort of true movie he and I
Speaker 1: have seen in a movie theater together. This could be
Speaker 1: like a Laura Vandercam trivia question if anyone wants to
Speaker 1: hear it is Talladega Nights. That's the only one. It's
Speaker 1: a good movie we've seen together in a theater. But
Speaker 1: now my kids love to go with him and he
Speaker 1: loves to go, so that yeah, they go together. So
Speaker 1: there you go. All right, So we're moving to our question. Second,
Speaker 1: this is from somebody who has a question about sort
Speaker 1: of planning and kids. So she has a fifth grader
Speaker 1: that will be a rising sixth grader soon, and she
Speaker 1: wants to know how can I help him organize his assignments.
Speaker 1: I've been talking to friends that have high schoolers and
Speaker 1: college age kids that still struggle with their school work.
Speaker 1: The stakes for them are obviously so much higher. So
Speaker 1: she wants to know what she can do to help
Speaker 1: her child build good habits now. So, Sarah, what would
Speaker 1: you suggest.
Speaker 2: There's no one size fits all, but like one thing
Speaker 2: to think about, depending on the kid's personality, is making
Speaker 2: something very visible and very physical. So I do think
Speaker 2: sometimes like something like a whiteboard can be helpful for
Speaker 2: a kid that has multiple activities, multiple classes, different due
Speaker 2: dates and things. And at least one of my kids
Speaker 2: actually she uses a planner now, but we've done the
Speaker 2: whiteboard approach in the past to kind of help demonstrate like, Okay,
Speaker 2: if you have like dance that goes late this night,
Speaker 2: and you have soccer that goes late this night, like
Speaker 2: what's the only night you have to get things done?
Speaker 2: And actually seeing it in some kind of form and
Speaker 2: a whiteboard is nice because you don't have to be
Speaker 2: precious about it. You can raise stuff, you can you know,
Speaker 2: start the week all over again, whatever. But it just
Speaker 2: makes things physical. I think that is one tool to
Speaker 2: potentially play with. That said, kids' preferences are going to vary,
Speaker 2: and keep in mind a lot of the tools to
Speaker 2: manage this stuff are going to be digital now. I
Speaker 2: mean it's going to be Google classroom, but you still
Speaker 2: have to help them cultivate the habit of looking ahead
Speaker 2: at Google classroom and seeing what's doue and make sure
Speaker 2: you've checked everything off at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: et cetera. I also just have to say paying attention
Speaker 2: to what the screen distractions are during worktime is going
Speaker 2: to be important because nothing makes homework impossible like trying
Speaker 2: to do TikTok.
Speaker 1: At the same time, it tends not to go that well.
Speaker 1: Each takes quite as long. You're doing bad tiktoks and
Speaker 1: you are not getting your homework done. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: this totally depends on the kid, Like you need to
Speaker 1: tread carefully here, and obviously you know your child best.
Speaker 1: I know. I could tell you I would totally have
Speaker 1: rebelled if my parents made me write my assignments on
Speaker 1: a whiteboard, like not your business, Like, I'll deal with it,
Speaker 1: not you. So I think you need to know if
Speaker 1: your kid is going to do that before you suggest
Speaker 1: anything along those lines. And I would also caution you, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what your district or the school that
Speaker 1: you are sending your child to where the split is
Speaker 1: a lot of places. K through five is elementary school,
Speaker 1: six through eight or six through nine is junior high
Speaker 1: middle school. It may be entirely different for him next
Speaker 1: year versus this year. He may be moving, in fact,
Speaker 1: from one class this year to multiple teachers next year.
Speaker 1: And if that's the case, I'm not sure that what
Speaker 1: you do now is going to have that much to
Speaker 1: do with what he does in sixth grade. You might
Speaker 1: need to just think of like sixth grade is the
Speaker 1: experimental year where we figure out what it looks like
Speaker 1: when you have assignments from multiple teachers and how we
Speaker 1: juggle them. But if the kid asks for suggestions or
Speaker 1: you want to just like helpfully bring up how you
Speaker 1: track multiple things, right, So it's not that you're telling
Speaker 1: you kid what to do, but you could say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this I remember sixth grade. Yeah, you get a lot
Speaker 1: of assignments from different places, right you know, it's so
Speaker 1: hard for me to manage multiple assignments, Like I'm working
Speaker 1: on projects with three different teams right now, and so
Speaker 1: what I have to do is I have to like
Speaker 1: keep track of them somewhere written so I know when
Speaker 1: all the do dates are. Yeah, you know, if you
Speaker 1: ever want a notebook or anything for that, just let
Speaker 1: me know. I've got it for you. That sort of thing,
Speaker 1: I think. And if you drop the ball on something like,
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, do you know what happened to me
Speaker 1: last night? I thought I was going to be able
Speaker 1: to get to this work on Thursday, and then do
Speaker 1: you remember we had all that issue with the plumbing
Speaker 1: and I was dealing with the plumber and you know,
Speaker 1: all this, and I couldn't do it Thursday, and we
Speaker 1: had to push this thing forward. It was a little
Speaker 1: embarrassing for me at work. Kids love that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: like when you screwed up, Oh my goodness, Like that's
Speaker 1: actually a bigger teacher than anything else. So I would
Speaker 1: suggest maybe framing it as much I possible term of
Speaker 1: what you are learning, as they fellow student of figuring
Speaker 1: out your time and then just be patient, because I
Speaker 1: think a lot of kids go through a time when
Speaker 1: the work gets tougher and they have to decide that
Speaker 1: they want to do a good job. And if you
Speaker 1: have a kid who generally does, that's great. If you're
Speaker 1: not sure, I would just caution you to be be
Speaker 1: patient and not be yelling and hardline and all about that,
Speaker 1: because you don't want it to be that doing well
Speaker 1: in school is a mommy thing. You want it to
Speaker 1: be that they want to do it, and as much
Speaker 1: as possible, if you can be patient and just encourage
Speaker 1: it when things go right and help the child explore
Speaker 1: feelings if they're upset that they got to see on
Speaker 1: something like that's going to be more helpful long term
Speaker 1: than anything else, because your sixth grade work does not
Speaker 1: matter in the long term. Thinks that it's how you
Speaker 1: build the habits and the motivation that's what matters.
Speaker 2: And then the line of habit building and motivation you
Speaker 2: doing the planning for them is not going to be helpful.
Speaker 2: So as Laura is saying, like sixth grade is a
Speaker 2: great time to kind of let them fail. So even
Speaker 2: if you're offering tools and offering ideas and like some
Speaker 2: tools may resonate like Laura's like I would never wanted
Speaker 2: to do that. You're still giving them tools for them
Speaker 2: to use and manage it, because I'm watching firsthand as
Speaker 2: I see in middle school parents still very much telling
Speaker 2: their kids when to do what, like hovering over them
Speaker 2: to submit, and I think that's just only going to
Speaker 2: backfire later on. I want my kids to learn how
Speaker 2: to manage that stuff. That is like part of the
Speaker 2: whole point of middle school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, learning how to do this on your own.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds.
Speaker 1: We have been talking all things media, media curation, how
Speaker 1: to get more out of the media you are consuming.
Speaker 1: We will be back next week with more on making
Speaker 1: work and life fit together.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
Speaker 2: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
Speaker 2: and you.
Speaker 1: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
Speaker 1: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
Speaker 1: us next time for more on making work and life
Speaker 1: work together.