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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

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Speaker 1: with you. Doctor Donna Marks with us has been a

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Speaker 1: licensed psychotherapist and addictions counselor in Palm Beach, Florida for

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Speaker 1: more than thirty years. In the nineteen eighty nine, doctor

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Speaker 1: Marks developed a chemical dependency training program at Palm Beach

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Speaker 1: Community College, which has now grown into a four year

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Speaker 1: degree and received the Florida Governor's Council Award. She also

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Speaker 1: teaches a course in miracles along with charryon her methods

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Speaker 1: with hundreds of thousands of listeners on podcasts and radio shows. Donna,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the program. Thank you for having me. I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited. We're gonna have a great night tonight. And

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Speaker 1: tell me how do we do a program on teaching

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Speaker 1: a course in miracles and also work on addictions. How'd

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Speaker 1: you tie those two together? Well, they're very related. A

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Speaker 1: course of miracles was developed through a psychological system. There

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Speaker 1: was a woman who was a psychiatrist at Columbia University

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Speaker 1: and she felt that there must be a better way

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Speaker 1: of doing things. And she was actually agnostic was not

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Speaker 1: miracle minded at all, but just the fact that she

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Speaker 1: had that thought. She started to have dreams and she

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Speaker 1: began to channel a voice that told her to take notes,

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Speaker 1: and she resisted it for a long time. She thought

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Speaker 1: she was losing her mind. She spoke. Her name was

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Speaker 1: doctor Helen Chuckman, and she spoke with her colleague, doctor

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Speaker 1: William Thetford, and he said, you're not crazy. Take notes.

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Speaker 1: Out of that came a course of miracles, which is

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Speaker 1: very much a psychoanalytical nature. I'm also a psychoanalyst. And

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Speaker 1: it tells us that everything that's happening to us and

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Speaker 1: our reactions to life are because of our past, and

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Speaker 1: it helps us to realize that we are choosing from

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Speaker 1: fear most of the time instead of love. And how

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Speaker 1: that ties in with addictions is that we stay connected

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Speaker 1: to our addictions because we are substituting those addictions for love,

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Speaker 1: and we are afraid to let go of those things

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Speaker 1: that we may suffer. We may feel the underlying cause

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Speaker 1: of the addiction, which needs to be felt and dealt with.

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Speaker 1: So when we choose love, we choose to embrace our humanity,

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Speaker 1: embrace our pain, embrace whatever's going on and substitute all

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Speaker 1: that fear often labeled as anxiety with love is an addiction, Donna,

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Speaker 1: and I want to get into miracles of a second

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Speaker 1: here with you. But is an addiction something where people

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Speaker 1: are just so obsessed with, whether it's eating disorders, alcohol disorders,

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Speaker 1: gambling disorders. Is that what an addiction is drugs? It's

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Speaker 1: when we use something to feel better, and in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a substitute for love. We get that

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Speaker 1: feeling and we go for that feeling instead of feeling

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Speaker 1: good about ourselves by doing something that makes us actually

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Speaker 1: feel good about ourselves. So addiction is what I believe.

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Speaker 1: There's only one and it's that invisible whole inside of us,

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Speaker 1: and we're trying to build that emptiness. And so I say,

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Speaker 1: the reason that treatment hasn't worked and a lot of

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Speaker 1: other methods is because someone will go to treatment for

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Speaker 1: alcoholism and then they'll start smoking pot, or they'll quit

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Speaker 1: smoking and they'll start eating, they start cocaine and they

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Speaker 1: start gambling, or there they start sex. Addiction. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it just moves around like a merrio, replace one with another, right, absolutely, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: How do you know somebody is addicted? Well, an addiction

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Speaker 1: means that you've lost control, and if you're trying to

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Speaker 1: control a behavior, you're already addicted. But the key here

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Speaker 1: is that you're having negative consequences. You have a decreased

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Speaker 1: self esteem. It's the addiction and drains you. It drains

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Speaker 1: you of your self esteem, of your finances, of your relationships,

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Speaker 1: of your energy. Most important, as human beings, and I

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Speaker 1: believe we are all spiritual beings, it drains us of

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Speaker 1: that energy and disconnects us from our source, either our

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Speaker 1: spiritual source or our source with other human beings, and

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Speaker 1: it gets us in the box in the maze, I

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Speaker 1: call it. And the more addicted we become, the further

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Speaker 1: into the maze we go. And the heart rate is

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Speaker 1: to get out, or so it seems. It really isn't

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Speaker 1: hard to get out once you have that miracle of

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Speaker 1: changing your perception about the whole thing. We'll come back

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Speaker 1: in a moment and talk more about addictions who Your

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Speaker 1: book is called Exit the Maze. One addiction, one cause,

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Speaker 1: one solution. But this course and Miracles fascinates me. Do

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Speaker 1: you tap into things that are spiritual and religious or

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Speaker 1: is it something else? Well, of course and Miracles is

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Speaker 1: definitely not religious, and it makes a point of telling

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Speaker 1: you that it's not religious, and personally, you know, religion

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Speaker 1: is a problem and it can be an addiction. Also

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Speaker 1: learning how to stay connected to our source and to

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Speaker 1: stay connected to love and the divine is certainly spiritual,

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Speaker 1: but not religious. Well, that's probably absolutely true. What about

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Speaker 1: prayer does that come into effect? Well, the Course of

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Speaker 1: Miracles doesn't talk that much about prayer, but does have

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Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty five lessons, one for each day

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Speaker 1: of the year, so that we can meditate on the concept.

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Speaker 1: So that the course teaches us, which is how to

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Speaker 1: get out of our ego, and that's where addiction resides.

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Speaker 1: The ego is always searching and never finding. But the

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Speaker 1: ego is also based on all of our past experiences,

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Speaker 1: so we're trying to hide from that pain and cover

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Speaker 1: it up with addiction. Of course, it's driven by fear,

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Speaker 1: and it's the home of anger and guilt where many

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Speaker 1: human beings stuck in either feeling angry or guilty. Underneath

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Speaker 1: all that is a lot of fear. Fear of not

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Speaker 1: being lovable, really is the bottom line. The course teaches

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Speaker 1: us through these daily meditations and a textbook to transfer

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Speaker 1: over into the place of who we really are, which

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Speaker 1: is spiritual. We have a holy spirit. It is a still, quiet,

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Speaker 1: loving voice, and we train ourselves to access that voice

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Speaker 1: instead of the raucous of the ego. Donna, give us

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Speaker 1: your definition of what a miracle is, Well, it's the

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Speaker 1: same as the course. It's a change in perception, rather

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Speaker 1: than seeing something that's a terrible, horrible thing, seeing it

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Speaker 1: as an opportunity to find deeper loves. That's impressible. I'd

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Speaker 1: like that. That's impressible. This is your first time on

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Speaker 1: the program. Where have you been? I don't know. I've

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Speaker 1: been right here in the same place my whole career.

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Speaker 1: How many books do you have out? Actually, right now

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Speaker 1: I have to read. The first one was called Learn, Grow, Forgive,

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Speaker 1: a Path to Spiritual Success. And then I wrote Exit

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Speaker 1: the Maze, which is released this week. Actually it was

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Speaker 1: released two days ago. It sold out on Amazon right away,

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Speaker 1: so we're very excited about that. And then I have

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Speaker 1: a third book coming out in April called The Healing Moment,

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Speaker 1: Seven Paths to Turn Messes into Miracles. I like that. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's make sure you come back on the program when

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Speaker 1: that book comes out. Okay, sure, thank you. I've always

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Speaker 1: believed that miracles have a lot to do with ability

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Speaker 1: of intent and belief that somewhat positive and real. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: if you intend to connect to love and your Holy

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Speaker 1: Spirit and you believe that you can, then you will.

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Speaker 1: But there's an element there of fates, because you know,

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Speaker 1: when we're addicted minded, we want it right now. Okay,

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Speaker 1: where's the miracle, where's the money, where's the lover? Where's

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Speaker 1: my house? Right exactly? And that's all ego. As we

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Speaker 1: evolve and we get more and more connected to who

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Speaker 1: we truly are, we know that all good things will

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Speaker 1: come in time. We know that we will manifest because

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Speaker 1: we are embracing a vision in a dream and our

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Speaker 1: purpose of why we're here. And everybody has a purpose.

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Speaker 1: Everybody has a mission, and we get lost in the

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Speaker 1: addiction maze. So once we connect to that purpose emission,

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Speaker 1: we become alive and we become at one width, so

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Speaker 1: to speak. And I don't mean this in an eferial way.

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Speaker 1: I mean it in a literal way. Our lives change

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Speaker 1: slowly like any good thing. You know, you have a

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Speaker 1: beautiful garden, but you don't put the seat in the soil,

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Speaker 1: and overnight expected to pop up the same thing with

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Speaker 1: our own evolution. We have the faith and we know

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Speaker 1: that as long as we take care of who we

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Speaker 1: are and nurture that true aspect of ourselves and learn

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Speaker 1: how to source from love instead of ego, we will

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Speaker 1: manifest joy and peace and all the other things. And

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Speaker 1: we don't worry about it anymore. We just know it

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Speaker 1: will happen. Where does positive thinking come into the mix. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think positive thinking is very important. There's been so

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Speaker 1: many fabulous speakers about that over their last century. And

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Speaker 1: it's the same thing. It's sourcing the part of your

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Speaker 1: mind that is divine and creative, and you still have

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Speaker 1: to develop that spiritual muscle. Though of fate, who creates

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Speaker 1: the miracle? Do we do it individually or is it

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Speaker 1: that source out there? Well, the miracle is a change

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Speaker 1: in perception. It's a collaborative effort. I have to be

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Speaker 1: willing to see something differently, and so I learn how

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Speaker 1: to say, Holy Spirit, help me to see this differently.

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Speaker 1: And once I do that, I get awarenesses that I

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Speaker 1: did not have before. So in other words, take the

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Speaker 1: simple stupid, you know, as a glass of water half

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Speaker 1: full or half it. If I'm just looking and dwelling

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Speaker 1: on them. Now, I don't have enough of whatever I want.

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Speaker 1: This that's one state of consciousness. But when I look

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Speaker 1: at the glass and say, isn't that wonderful? I have

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Speaker 1: half full and I know that it will continue to

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Speaker 1: fill up if I'm living in the right consciousness. That

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Speaker 1: is the miracle. I would always talk to people, Donna

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Speaker 1: and say, is it partly cloudy out? Or is it

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Speaker 1: partly sunny? Exactly? And I'm very interested in their responses

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Speaker 1: because that tells me volumes about them. And not only that,

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Speaker 1: you can take that a step further. If it's totally

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Speaker 1: cloudy out, isn't that wonderful? It means that the plant

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Speaker 1: is doing what it's supposed to do. There could be rain,

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Speaker 1: which I may not want it, but there's poor little

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Speaker 1: plants out there needed sure. And so you know, this

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Speaker 1: is a divine, one dful, creative process. And when we

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Speaker 1: are grateful for the clouds as well as the sunshine,

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Speaker 1: we are really at a place of spiritual enlightenment's And

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Speaker 1: then we have we source this joy so that no

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Speaker 1: matter whether our day is cloudy or sunny inside or outside,

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Speaker 1: we are feeling connected and grateful the people who take

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Speaker 1: the course in miracles. Why did they take it? Well,

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Speaker 1: most people are already searching, like I was. I was

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Speaker 1: nearly sober when I heard about it. I was having

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Speaker 1: a conversation with a friend of mine and I said,

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Speaker 1: I really would like to find some type of spirituality

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Speaker 1: course or a church. I'd been all over the place

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Speaker 1: in my life trying to connect with something. And we

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Speaker 1: started talking about Jesus, and I said, you know, religion

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Speaker 1: has gotten so crazy and making people feel guilty and

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Speaker 1: they have to be controlled and their sinners. Jesus never

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Speaker 1: taught that. He said, love yourself, love one another, I

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Speaker 1: love God, and that was his mission. And so when

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Speaker 1: I said that, she said, oh, you'd probably like a

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Speaker 1: course of miracles. I'm like, what is that? She said, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't really know. I haven't taken it, but I

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Speaker 1: think you would enjoy it because it sounds like what

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Speaker 1: you just said, and it certainly was. I went to

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Speaker 1: a Unity church and picked up a copy. She told

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Speaker 1: me that's where I could purchase it, and I've been

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Speaker 1: studying it ever since, well with doctor Donna Marks. Her

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Speaker 1: new book is called Exit the Maze, One Addiction, One Cause,

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Speaker 1: One Solution. Her website is linked up at Coast to

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Speaker 1: coastam dot com. She also has a full social media

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Speaker 1: campaign going on. She's on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube as well,

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Speaker 1: and we've got those links for you too at Coast

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Speaker 1: to coastdam dot com. So how do people get addicted

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Speaker 1: in the first place, Donna? Well, usually not always, but

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Speaker 1: usually there's some type of trauma that happens in childhood.

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Speaker 1: And it could just be something as mild as feeling

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Speaker 1: upset about your pet dying and getting messages like, you know,

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Speaker 1: get over it, so they don't ever process the sadness

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Speaker 1: in the grief, but more often it's something more major.

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Speaker 1: There's one of the things I want to clarify. I

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Speaker 1: never blame parents. I made all the mistakes myself as

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Speaker 1: a parent, and we pass it in intergenerationally, on and on.

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Speaker 1: So it's not to blame anybody, but we have to

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Speaker 1: look at it and heal it. Sometimes children are abused.

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Speaker 1: Um there's verbal abuse, there's emotional abuse, there's neglect, there's

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Speaker 1: sexual abuse. I personally experienced all of them as a child,

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Speaker 1: and so that creates a sense of what's wrong with me,

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Speaker 1: And with that lack of spiritual and maternal and paternal

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Speaker 1: sufficient love, there's that's where that void initially forms, like

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Speaker 1: what am I doing wrong? What's wrong with me? How

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Speaker 1: come I lovable? And then there's that emptiness. So when

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Speaker 1: you're around people, you feel different, you feel separated, and

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Speaker 1: then the ego later on in life uses all those

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Speaker 1: early memories to keep it churning, keep it going. And

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Speaker 1: so the minute that somebody like that has that fix,

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Speaker 1: whether it's the sugar fix of ah, this feels so good,

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Speaker 1: you know, or the alcohol or the drug or the

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Speaker 1: corn or whatever it might be, that feeling is the

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Speaker 1: substitute for love and the spirituality that would be there naturally,

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Speaker 1: it's naturally an every child. When a child's needs are met,

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Speaker 1: they feel happy, they feel good, they feel worthy. But

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Speaker 1: when those needs aren't met or they're they're subverted through

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Speaker 1: some type of abuse, that child feels deficient and so

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Speaker 1: there's always that search to feel Okay, Donna, would you

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Speaker 1: say a serial killer is addicted, Well, in a way,

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Speaker 1: I mean they have to kill. Yeah, it's a very Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a compulsion and they're certainly negative consequences, but that

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Speaker 1: person has become so disconnected to their conscience and to

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Speaker 1: their source that it's very hard to turn around, although

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Speaker 1: some people have helped law enforcement to solve crimes, which

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Speaker 1: is turning it around. But anything that you're doing despite

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Speaker 1: negative consequences would definitely be an addiction, and serial killers

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Speaker 1: certainly fall into that category. Is there with an addiction

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Speaker 1: and underlining purpose that they're addicted. I mean, I've always wondered,

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Speaker 1: you know why somebody can't just stop drinking to excess,

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Speaker 1: have a few drinks, enjoy yourself. But don't, you know,

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Speaker 1: drink forty drinks at tequila and pass out every night?

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Speaker 1: What determines that one person who has one or two

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Speaker 1: drinks and has some social fun to somebody who goes overboard. Well,

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Speaker 1: when I was doing my research for my book, millions,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of people just in the US alone

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Speaker 1: have addictions. So they don't realize it. Said the notion

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Speaker 1: that you know, you can just have a few drinks

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Speaker 1: and enjoy yourself. Some people can, but they may be

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Speaker 1: addicted to sugar or food, or compulsive exercise or something else.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's a slippery slope, if you will. And

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Speaker 1: what happens is that things are made to get us addicted.

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Speaker 1: They stimulate that frontal lobe in such a way that

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Speaker 1: produces chemicals in the brain. You know, alcohol doesn't need

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Speaker 1: to be fifteen proof or twenty proof. You know, it

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Speaker 1: could be a lot less alcohol and you would still

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Speaker 1: get a mild relaxation, but now it gets you where

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Speaker 1: you want to go high. Same thing with a lot

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Speaker 1: of the drugs, Same thing with sugar. It has the

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Speaker 1: same effect as cocaine on the brain, and so that's

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Speaker 1: why it's so refined. Unrefined sugar is not nearly as potent.

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Speaker 1: So we know for sure that cigarettes had chemicals added.

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Speaker 1: Nicotine is already like one of the most addictive drugs

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Speaker 1: on the planet, and they put other chemicals in it.

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Speaker 1: So things are made through advertising and through the substances

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Speaker 1: in them to get us addicted, or the visual images

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Speaker 1: or the video games, and again you know pornography. I

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Speaker 1: think one of my researches with like thirty eight thousand

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Speaker 1: hits per minute on the Internet. So we've we are addicted.

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Speaker 1: We are an addictive society, but it's only because we've

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Speaker 1: lost our direction to what we're really trying to get

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Speaker 1: is that feeling of being plugged in, feeling good, feeling joy,

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Speaker 1: and we're just sourcing in ways that don't work. Are

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Speaker 1: there any addictions that are okay or good for you? Well,

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't be an addiction, it would be a behavior

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Speaker 1: that's good for you. Interesting, Yeah, because that's a defining

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Speaker 1: factor there is. What are the negative consequences all about

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Speaker 1: addictions that may be not as harmful as another addiction.

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Speaker 1: Is that possible or are they all bad? Well, in

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Speaker 1: the long term, if we don't intervene on ourselves, they

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Speaker 1: can lead to things. Now, when I quit smoking, I've

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Speaker 1: started a long distance bicycling and then after that running

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Speaker 1: marathons and it was extreme. So so I guess could

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Speaker 1: you be addicted to running marathons? Some people are addicted

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Speaker 1: and that can be like converted to an addiction to

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Speaker 1: your body, you know, like it has to look a

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Speaker 1: certain way. You're you're sure, okay, So I mean just

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Speaker 1: go Like I said, it's a merry go round and

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Speaker 1: it's never ending. But if that makes you physically feel

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Speaker 1: better and you're healthier, that's not a bad addiction. Well,

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Speaker 1: so exercise is very good for you. I do it

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Speaker 1: regularly and it makes me feel good about myself. It's

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Speaker 1: a self discipline and I get endorphins and and I'm

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Speaker 1: healthier for it. I'm not on any kind of medications

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Speaker 1: or anything like that, so that's one thing. But when

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Speaker 1: it's taken to an extreme and if I don't do it,

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Speaker 1: I'm in a bad mood. I'm yelling at people. I'm

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Speaker 1: upset because I didn't get to do my rent today,

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Speaker 1: or my body's breaking down because I'm an extreme exercise,

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Speaker 1: or I have to take off. That's not good. That's

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Speaker 1: not good. That's really where we're abusing ourselves. Listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern,

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Speaker 1: and go to Coast to Coast am dot com for

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Speaker 1: more