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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 3: Hey everybody, Happy Friday and Happy Halloween. How's everybody doing.

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Speaker 3: Everybody feeling spooky out there?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 5: I love Halloween.

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Speaker 6: I can't tell that sarcastic.

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Speaker 2: That was genuine. That was Ryan being genuine. I actually

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Speaker 2: love Halloween too. I think it's just such a like weird,

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Speaker 2: quirky holiday. And it's also I know, it's almost like

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Speaker 2: the most like community focused holiday, like everybody getting out

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Speaker 2: and acting like they actually know each other and aren't

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Speaker 2: just like strangers on their phone.

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Speaker 5: So I support no stress, just having a good time.

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Speaker 6: Yes, stress just candy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, do.

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Speaker 3: You guys, Are you guys dressing up?

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Speaker 5: I'm not dressing up. My kids of course are. Well,

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Speaker 5: we'll have people over at our place and then all

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Speaker 5: the kids will go trick or treating from here. It's

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Speaker 5: actually a great way to have a party because people

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Speaker 5: are at your house for like thirty five minutes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Friends of ours always have us and others over every

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Speaker 2: year too, and we just like eat some pizza and

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Speaker 2: then go or treating. Yeah, we're being so me and

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Speaker 2: the other girls in the family, my oldest daughter, my

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Speaker 2: youngest daughter being demon hunters.

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Speaker 5: So that's awesome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so that'll be fun.

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Speaker 7: Well, character are you going to be? Is there a

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Speaker 7: specific character?

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Speaker 2: I am Roomy, Ida is Mira, and Ella is Zoe.

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Speaker 2: These were all assigned by Ida, who is the one

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Speaker 2: who is driving straight.

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Speaker 6: It's awesome, but I do.

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Speaker 3: I do like the movie and I like the song.

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Speaker 2: So and Kyle is dressing up as like he got

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Speaker 2: like this hideous seventies looking mullet wig and then these

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Speaker 2: like seventies glasses and the ugliest fans I've ever seen

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Speaker 2: in my entire life. They're like brown, like mustard brown,

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Speaker 2: crushed velvet and they're tight. It's hilarious. I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: that many people will get the reference, but certainly our

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Speaker 2: audience would appreciate it.

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Speaker 7: Well, you know, it's it's spooky season. But the news

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Speaker 7: keeps rolling in. Why don't we start with something a

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Speaker 7: little spooky here with Trump. Trump is urging Republicans to

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Speaker 7: kill the filibuster. We've got this here in Politico. This

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Speaker 7: is him gesturing before departing Halloween. He did also do

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Speaker 7: some Halloween trick or treating himself. He did another candy placement.

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Speaker 7: If you remember he placed candy on top of a

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Speaker 7: minion a few years ago. Oh yeah, he recreated that

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Speaker 7: again with a different costume this time. I don't have

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Speaker 7: the video for that, but well you.

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Speaker 2: Can't really, you can't really beat the minion moment that

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Speaker 2: that was iconic. So here's what Trump said. He said,

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Speaker 2: because of the fact that the Democrats have gone stone

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Speaker 2: cold crazy, you put some quotes, the choice is clear,

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Speaker 2: initiate the nuclear option, get rid of the filibuster, and

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Speaker 2: make America great again. So you know, obviously, guys, shut

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Speaker 2: down has been going on for I don't know, almost

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Speaker 2: a month at this point.

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Speaker 3: Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: And then tomorrow everybody loses food stamp benefits. So forty

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Speaker 2: two forty three million Americans, most of these are families

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Speaker 2: with kids, are set to lose food access to food

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Speaker 2: benefits from the government. This is apparently in affirmative choice

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Speaker 2: being made by the Republicans because there was emergency funding

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Speaker 2: available that they had previously indicated they're going to tap,

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Speaker 2: they decided not to because they wanted to put pressure

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Speaker 2: on the Democrats because they're basically like relying on Democrats

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Speaker 2: to be the adults in the room and being like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, we don't actually want forty million people

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Speaker 2: to go hungry in November as we head into the

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Speaker 2: holiday season. So now it's you know, looking like Trump

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Speaker 2: has just decided to hell with it. Let's just nuke

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Speaker 2: the filibuster and then we don't need to negotiate with

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Speaker 2: Democrats on at all, on this or anything else until

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Speaker 2: at least until there's an election and you know, dynamics

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Speaker 2: potentially change, although very unlikely that you know, difficult landscape

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Speaker 2: for Democrats to take back the Senate.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I look at this as.

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Speaker 8: Similar to what Donald Trump did when he was suddenly like,

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Speaker 8: oh maybe I will let Ukraine do long range missiles

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Speaker 8: inside Russia, you know, like when he seemed to flip

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Speaker 8: flop uns of lens. Yeah, I don't think that Republicans

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Speaker 8: are serious about nuking the Filibuster. But I also don't

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Speaker 8: know with Donald Trump the extent to which, and this

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Speaker 8: is why he does these things, the extent to which

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Speaker 8: he's he's serious, or the extent to which he's like

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Speaker 8: doing art of the deal stuff. And so my suspicion

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Speaker 8: is that this is art of the deal because if

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Speaker 8: you talk to Republican senators there are still utterly horrified

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Speaker 8: by the idea of nuke the philip Buster, and not

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Speaker 8: all of them.

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Speaker 5: You explain to people why that is, like, because I

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Speaker 5: think people democrats from the outside be like, well, of

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Speaker 5: course Republicans just want to get rid of the Philibuster,

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Speaker 5: but that's not exactly true. So why like, why is that?

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Speaker 8: So there's this idea among And that's why what Trump

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Speaker 8: did is sort of funny because one of the big

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Speaker 8: talking points behind the scenes on the right about how

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Speaker 8: the left is ready to just like completely go scorched

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Speaker 8: earth on our institutions is that.

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Speaker 6: They want to nuke the filibuster.

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Speaker 8: And here you have Donald Trump coming out and taking

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Speaker 8: away anyone's like moral high ground for saying that it's

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Speaker 8: Dems who flirt with the idea of nuking the Philipbuster,

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Speaker 8: because when you get rid of the filibuster, if you're progressive, well, yeah,

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Speaker 8: this is a much more like system. This system as

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Speaker 8: much looks much more like direct democracy. You could actually

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Speaker 8: do things. On the other hand, if you're a constitutionalist

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Speaker 8: like Mike Lee, you say, well, the Senator is supposed

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Speaker 8: to serve as the what is the line of the

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Speaker 8: saucer on the Yeah, the cooling saucer on the teacup,

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Speaker 8: and it's supposed to sort of temper direct democracy, and

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Speaker 8: so nuking the filibuster.

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Speaker 6: Then is unwise.

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Speaker 8: So some Republicans in recent years, like I remember having

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Speaker 8: this conversation in an interview with Ted Cruz like twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 8: him being like, listen, I'm pretty sure the Democrats are

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Speaker 8: going to do it anyway at this point, so maybe

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Speaker 8: we should just do it and take away whatever short

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Speaker 8: term games they get gains they get from being the

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Speaker 8: ones to nuke it. So there's some there's been some

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Speaker 8: movement on that question, but they definitely can't say it's

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Speaker 8: just the Dems who want to nuke the philibuster anymore.

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Speaker 5: And so at this point we're now Tomorrow is open

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Speaker 5: enrollment for most, if not all, of the ACA exchanges,

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Speaker 5: and the thing that the Democrats have been fighting for

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Speaker 5: is to save ACA subsidies from going away. Won't that

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Speaker 5: won't happen that people are you know, people now have

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Speaker 5: to go in and buy their insurance for the next year.

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Speaker 5: And so I guess the question now becomes like, at

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Speaker 5: what point into the open enrollment do Democrats say, Okay,

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Speaker 5: the thing that we were fighting for hasn't happened yet.

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Speaker 5: Republicans are saying that they're willing to negotiate around these

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Speaker 5: subsidies if we open the government back up. So what like,

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Speaker 5: what's the rationale at that point, I guess for not

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Speaker 5: just opening it back up and entering into negotiations.

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Speaker 2: So I asked Rocanna about this specifically. I know Ryan

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Speaker 2: you and Soccer had talked about I don't remember who

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Speaker 2: it was. On Twitter, floated that the idea from the

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Speaker 2: Democrats was basically to push the shut down to November first,

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Speaker 2: when open enrollment starts, and then basically be like, guys,

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Speaker 2: we tried and now open enrollment is here, and we

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Speaker 2: failed like the Republicans did in the way. So I

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Speaker 2: asked Roe about that, and first of all, he was

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Speaker 2: sort of shocked that that was like an idea that

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Speaker 2: was out there.

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Speaker 3: He was like wow, And I was like, okay, well that.

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Speaker 2: Tells me that this is not something you guys are

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Speaker 2: discussing behind closed doors. And so I asked him, you know,

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Speaker 2: at what point is it too late to extend the subsidies?

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Speaker 2: And at least in his mind, it was never too late,

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Speaker 2: like all the way up until you know, at least

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Speaker 2: the end of the year, right for the following year,

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Speaker 2: because open enrollment begins, but you know, at lasts throughout

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Speaker 2: the you know, cand year, and I think even into January, right,

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Speaker 2: And so in his mind there was no like too

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Speaker 2: late that was looming. Now he saw this weekend as

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Speaker 2: a critical moment, both because of open enrollment and also

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Speaker 2: because of the obviously the food stamp cliff as well,

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Speaker 2: another thing that will happen at the end of this month.

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Speaker 2: It's not exactly like on a date. Certain is that

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Speaker 2: there are some organizations within the government that are called

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Speaker 2: working capital organizations that are funded through sort of like

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Speaker 2: intra government sales that have contracts and they've continued to

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Speaker 2: work and they've continued to have funning. A lot of

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Speaker 2: that will run out at the end of this month

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Speaker 2: as well, so you'll have an additional round of people

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Speaker 2: who are out of work if you really continue, you know,

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Speaker 2: into November and any sort of signing way. So he

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Speaker 2: was seeing this weekends as a kind of like an

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Speaker 2: important date, but not like a drop dead deadline in

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Speaker 2: terms of the extension of the subsidies.

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Speaker 3: That's just Rocanna.

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Speaker 2: He's not in leadership, So who knows what other kind

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Speaker 2: of discussions are going on or you know, what the

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Speaker 2: reality is behind the scenes.

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Speaker 3: But I thought it was interesting his perspective.

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Speaker 5: You would hope that forty two million people, you know,

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Speaker 5: who've been holding their breath waiting for the next round

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Speaker 5: of food stamps to come in at the beginning of

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Speaker 5: the month and then not getting that, that that would

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Speaker 5: be enough to put pressure on the system. Because those

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Speaker 5: forty two million people have the probably the least amount

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Speaker 5: of political power in our country, you know, that doesn't

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Speaker 5: put the kind of pressure it should. People that do

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Speaker 5: have political power in this country are ones that travel

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Speaker 5: all the time, and so my suspicion is that airlines

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Speaker 5: completely falling apart and flight cancelations cascading are the thing

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Speaker 5: that will drive this. If you remember, was it the

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Speaker 5: twenty nineteen shut down Emily, when Sarah Nelson, the flight

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Speaker 5: attendant union head came out and was like, all right,

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Speaker 5: enough of this, Like if you don't have a deal

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Speaker 5: by Friday, we're going we're going on strike. We're shutting

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Speaker 5: the airports down. And they came up, they came up

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Speaker 5: with a deal. They're like, okay, fine, because like the senators,

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Speaker 5: members of Congress and people who donate to senators and

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Speaker 5: members of Congress, they are in and out of those

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Speaker 5: airports constantly. And it's not just a safety issue, which

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Speaker 5: is key to people who want their planes to take

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Speaker 5: off and land safely, but it's also the the like

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Speaker 5: nightmare hellish travel scenarios that develop. You know, Newark Airport,

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Speaker 5: was it yesterday was closed all day because of not

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Speaker 5: enough flight attendants showing up. Newark Airport are pretty important

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Speaker 5: for you know, international and national travel. So I would

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Speaker 5: think that heading into Thanksgiving, the biggest travel time of

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Speaker 5: the year, something something's got to give at some point

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Speaker 5: or else it's a complete you know, catastrophic meltdown situation. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: well most Thanksgiving travel situations.

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Speaker 6: True.

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Speaker 2: The other thing is that, you know, the polls have

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Speaker 2: been pretty clear that the public blames Republicans more and

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Speaker 2: so politically, I think Democrats feel like they're on pretty

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Speaker 2: strong ground. You know, the polls are even more overwhelming

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Speaker 2: in terms of the public wants the ACA subsidies to

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Speaker 2: be extended, and you know, thinks that that is an

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Speaker 2: important thing to fight for. So, you know, to me,

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Speaker 2: it was interesting. The the Trump Phila and the filibuster

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Speaker 2: gambit was interesting both because I think it's possible that

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Speaker 2: they do it. You know, I mean, all the idea of, oh,

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Speaker 2: we're a constitutional party, you are so committed to that,

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Speaker 2: like it just seems so quaint at this point, like.

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Speaker 6: That Trump definitely doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Trump, but apparently neither today because they certainly haven't protected

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Speaker 2: their like constitutional rights and you know powers as either

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Speaker 2: in the House or the Senate. So they've just been

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Speaker 2: completely shuffled to the side, and none of them have

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Speaker 2: really raised a people with a few minor exceptions, have

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Speaker 2: really raised a peep about any of that. So you know,

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't surprise me if they do actually go in

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Speaker 2: that direction. But let's even say that it's just sort

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Speaker 2: of a negotiating tactic, which I also think is fully possible.

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Speaker 2: The fact that he's reaching for that tells me that

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Speaker 2: he is actually feeling some pressure to bring this thing

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Speaker 2: to a close. And the idea from Republicans going in

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Speaker 2: was that they had all these ways that they were

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Speaker 2: going to extract pain from the Democrats. You know, first

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Speaker 2: they thought, like all the federal government layoffs, that this

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Speaker 2: is going to really be painful for Democrats. But I

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Speaker 2: don't think it really was, just because there have already

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Speaker 2: been so many federal government layoffs. They're like, you're already

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Speaker 2: doing this shit. So this is not really anything totally

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Speaker 2: different than what we've seen throughout this administration. And there's

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Speaker 2: so much pressure coming from the Democratic base to show

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Speaker 2: that they are fighting and able to stand up in

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Speaker 2: some significant way that I think it's really changed some

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Speaker 2: of the dynamics here, and they've the Republicans in a

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Speaker 2: sense miscalculated. I also did as well, by the way,

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Speaker 2: miscalculated the strength of the hand that they would be

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Speaker 2: ultimately playing here. And so you know, you've got the

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Speaker 2: Now they're applying the pressure, hoping the Democrats cared, and

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Speaker 2: I think they do to a certain extent about people

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Speaker 2: losing their food stamp funding and then the threat of like, well,

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Speaker 2: we'll just take any power away so there will never

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Speaker 2: be these negotiations in the future is the latest gamut.

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Speaker 2: But like I said to me, it indicates that they

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Speaker 2: are worried about some of these things. You know, you're

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Speaker 2: starting to get a place, get to a place where

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Speaker 2: people are noticing the effects, you know, the air travel,

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Speaker 2: noticing those effects. Food stamps is going to be just

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Speaker 2: a massive story. People very upset. You're going to see

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Speaker 2: the lines at the food banks. We've already been seeing some,

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Speaker 2: but you're going to see across the entire country massive

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Speaker 2: lineups at these food banks. And ultimately it's Republicans who

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Speaker 2: are in charge of the House, the Senate, and the Presidency,

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Speaker 2: so it's no surprise that that's where people are.

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Speaker 3: Most people are placing the blame.

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Speaker 7: And also flagging something that Saga or flagged yes on Twitter,

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Speaker 7: the health insurance premiums. He shared this the US is

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Speaker 7: a country where a solopreneur father of four has to

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Speaker 7: pay forty four k a year for healthcare with a

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Speaker 7: twelve k deductible, while elderly retirees get it for free.

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Speaker 7: So we've got these prices here for people just listening.

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Speaker 7: These are silver plans for this family. They're thirty six

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Speaker 7: hundred a month, thirty eight hundred a month, or thirty

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Speaker 7: seven seventy nine a month.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a disaster.

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Speaker 2: And in that way, you know, I think one thing

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Speaker 2: the shutdown has certainly certainly shown is healthcare was not

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Speaker 2: in the political conversation prior to this moment, and now

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Speaker 2: it really is. And it's a combination of Democrats forcing

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Speaker 2: it to be part of the political conversation and also

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Speaker 2: just the reality of what these prices are are looking like.

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Speaker 2: But you know, when you figures like Marjorie Taylor Green

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Speaker 2: who have to come out and say the system is

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Speaker 2: utterly insane, just I think it proves the point that

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Speaker 2: you don't just have to accept the like news landscape

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Speaker 2: as it exists. You can actually force a conversation on

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Speaker 2: an issue where your opponent is on the back foot,

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Speaker 2: and that is, of by the way, great importance to

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Speaker 2: the American people.

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Speaker 6: Margin Taylor Green always worth noting like the top small

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Speaker 6: dollar fundraiser and Republican politics, but in the in Congress

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Speaker 6: basically period among Republicans. So she's also announced that she's

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Speaker 6: going on to view next week on Tuesday. Election.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait for that.

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Speaker 8: But it's interesting because I mean, if the fight does

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Speaker 8: become over, you know, food stamp funding lapses and DEM's

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Speaker 8: coming to the table on the healthcare question for non citizens,

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Speaker 8: that's a I think that's that's my prediction of what happens,

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Speaker 8: is that DEM say to some extent like yes, of course,

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Speaker 8: like put in the safeguard to make sure that citizens

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Speaker 8: are the ones who are accessing the exchanges. That's my

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Speaker 8: prediction of where Dems come from. And then they get

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Speaker 8: the government back like reopened, and they can go out

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Speaker 8: and say this was their win that they were able

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Speaker 8: to like negotiate on that they get something with the premiums,

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Speaker 8: and they're like, we got Republicans to cave on this

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Speaker 8: thing with premiums. I don't know if it happens potentially Wednesday.

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Speaker 8: That's a possibility as well, that after the election is over,

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Speaker 8: it's it's and you're nothing is moving. It's possible that

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Speaker 8: people come to the table. I forget which them telegraphed

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Speaker 8: on an interviewer. So over the last couple of days,

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Speaker 8: it was super moderate. I forget which one it was,

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Speaker 8: that they were like ready to reopen conversations. So there

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Speaker 8: are all kinds of things that could happen, but the

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Speaker 8: food stamp battle cheerpoint Crystal will be absolutely everywhere. Josh

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Speaker 8: Holly already has not been in the New York Times

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Speaker 8: pushing back against his party and saying it's ridiculous to

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Speaker 8: let food stamps lapse, So that could explode in similar

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Speaker 8: to the Healthcare conversation, like what Marjor Tayler Green has

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Speaker 8: sent to the Healthcare Conversation, that could explode in the

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Speaker 8: food stamp conversation as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: I just I think the visuals of you know, thousands

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Speaker 2: and thousands of Americans lined up at food banks as

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Speaker 2: you head into the holiday season is going to be

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Speaker 2: a very very challenging one. Some things I've seen floated

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Speaker 2: are like, you know, Democrats might be willing to accept

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Speaker 2: some sort of you know, commitment to negotiations plus a

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Speaker 2: vote on the floor, something of that nature could be

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Speaker 2: in the offing, and clearly Trump trying to up the

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Speaker 2: pressure to force Democrats to cave here as he himself

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Speaker 2: is starting to feel the heat from his own government

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Speaker 2: being shut down now over a month?

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Speaker 7: Anything else before we move on? Should we hit the

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Speaker 7: heritage or drop site next?

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Speaker 6: Let's do drop site. That's a big story.

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Speaker 2: I always love to highlight our own reporting here, and

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Speaker 2: it is a huge story.

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Speaker 8: Ryan's trending on Twitter. Ryan's reporting trending on Twitter.

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Speaker 7: Going viral in all the right places. Jeffrey Epstein and

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Speaker 7: the masade, how the sex trafficker helped Israel build a

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Speaker 7: back channel to Russia amid Syrian civil war. This was

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Speaker 7: written by Ryan and Murtaza Hussein. Ryan, give us a

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Speaker 7: little TLDR. What's going on here?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: And this this comes from Ahood Barock was using and

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Speaker 5: for all we know, he's still using this Gmail account

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Speaker 5: that appears to have been hacked by Iran. It's not

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Speaker 5: entirely clear who got it, but we we pieced together

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Speaker 5: decent amount of information that suggests that they're they're probably

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Speaker 5: the most likely suspect here, and so they've dumped Barack's

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Speaker 5: entire inbox.

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Speaker 4: Aho.

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Speaker 5: Barock was former Defense Minister of Israel, former Prime Minister

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Speaker 5: of Israel, former head of of Intelligence, and extremely close

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Speaker 5: to Jeffrey Epstein and going through his emails, you find

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Speaker 5: that Epstein really helped usher him through the world of

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Speaker 5: the of global political elites in in an absolutely stunning way.

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Speaker 5: There's there, there's a there's a moment in the In

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Speaker 5: this piece, I'll first start with the Massad part, because

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Speaker 5: this is a remarkable exchange between Barack and Epstein. So

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Speaker 5: Epstein emails Barack. Epstein helped Barack link up with Victor Wexelberg,

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Speaker 5: who is this Russian oligarch who's close with Putin. Got

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Speaker 5: a million dollar advance and a million dollar quarterly retainer,

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Speaker 5: like this is we're talking, you know, serious money. Epstein

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Speaker 5: was able to deliver to him here any and he

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Speaker 5: so Barack of course is going to have to talk

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Speaker 5: to Massad about this arrangement that he's that he's struck,

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Speaker 5: and Epstein writes to him, do not go to number

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Speaker 5: one too quickly. I understand more now, so we should

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Speaker 5: speak number one is a euphemism. That's that's like Israeli

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Speaker 5: speak for the chief of of Massad because back in

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Speaker 5: the old days, ah, you know, like the identity of

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Speaker 5: the Massad chief was kept secret and everybody just called

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Speaker 5: him number one. That's like well established that's just what

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Speaker 5: you call the headsade is number one. So Epstein, do

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00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 5: not go to number one too quickly. I understand more now,

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Speaker 5: so we should speak. So Epstein is basically directing the

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Speaker 5: former head of military, head of intelligence at Israel how

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Speaker 5: to negotiate and how to navigate his situation with the

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Speaker 5: chief of Massad.

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Speaker 4: Like that.

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Speaker 5: So anybody who's like, yeah, did Epstein have Massad connections?

402
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 5: Epstein had Massad connections, Like he's more plug in than

403
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Speaker 5: a Obarack. So what this story is about, in particular

404
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 5: is during the seriance of a war, Israel you know,

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00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 5: wanted to to you know, you know, they had they

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Speaker 5: had a daytent with a SAD, but they also wanted

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Speaker 5: a SAD out and they because they wanted to cut

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Speaker 5: off you know, basically Iron's ability to move weapons you

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Speaker 5: know into hesbela Assad even though they had a daytent

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Speaker 5: with them is not not friendly.

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Speaker 7: Uh.

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Speaker 5: But they also didn't want to be seen as driving

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Speaker 5: this scenario there, so that what they wanted to do

414
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Speaker 5: is set up a back channel to Putin who was

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Speaker 5: a big you know, backer of the Syrian government at

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Speaker 5: the time, and say, look, you know if and this

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Speaker 5: is this was the scheme that Epstein and Brock came

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Speaker 5: up with. Look, look, let's figure out a way that

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Speaker 5: you can retain your geopolitical strategic aims in Syria while

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Speaker 5: also getting a sad out like let's let's let's figure

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Speaker 5: this out. And in trying to set up that back channel,

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Speaker 5: you have one email exchange where Epstein tells Brock Putin

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Speaker 5: wants me to come to this conference and meet with him.

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Speaker 5: I told him, no, I said, if you want to

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Speaker 5: meet with me, you need to set aside real time

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Speaker 5: and real privacy so we can have an actual conversation,

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Speaker 5: not doing this like meeting you with the side of

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Speaker 5: a conference thing. That's Putin. He then successfully arranges a meeting.

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Speaker 5: You could say, oh, this is just smoke he's blowing. No,

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Speaker 5: he successfully then arranges a meeting with with Putin and

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Speaker 5: Barack and they set up set it up ahead of

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Speaker 5: time by writing this article together about about what their

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Speaker 5: agenda is there and what makes Epstein such a remarkable

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Speaker 5: historical figure is twenty twelve. Putin has this, you know,

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Speaker 5: has this election that is that is contested. There's protests

436
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Speaker 5: in the street. Putin believes, you know, quite reasonably actually

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Speaker 5: that some of these protests originate from US backed NGO's,

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Speaker 5: you know, that are being pushed by Hillary Clinton, who's

439
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 5: then Secretary of State, and that that is like you know,

440
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 5: Putin Clinton's had had a hostile relationship before. That really

441
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 5: elevates there the hostility which then you know, plays a

442
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 5: role in our politics for the next decade and and

443
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 5: and maybe more. And so Putin at this time is

444
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 5: consolidating power in an authoritarian way, but wants to keep

445
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 5: open capital flows. And the person, it turns out, who

446
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 5: is perfect to help him navigate this as Jeffrey Epstein.

447
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 5: Epstein is very close with the Clintons, but also you know,

448
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 5: not just knows that the technical details of how to

449
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 5: keep these capital flows moving, but can help with the

450
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 5: politics of it. So there's nobody in the world really

451
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 5: who would be able to balance you know, both Putin

452
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 5: and the and the Clintons and the US and it

453
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 5: and and while he's doing it, is really working on

454
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 5: behalf of Israeli you know, national security interests. So it's

455
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 5: a it's this is one of we will have a

456
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 5: lot We'll have a bunch more stories coming on this,

457
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 5: but this is this is one of my favorite because

458
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 5: it really peels back the way that power was working,

459
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 5: particularly in the twenty tens. I wonder if we'll ever

460
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 5: get another era like this, because these guys were using

461
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 5: email in a completely like wide open way, the way

462
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 5: they don't now, Like right now, these these conversations are

463
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 5: happening on signal with disappearing messages for the most part. Thankfully,

464
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 5: we have a lot of morons in this world that

465
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 5: will be revealing to us there text message exchanges, right

466
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 5: exchanges and adding Jeffrey Goldberg to exchanges. So like we're saying,

467
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 5: we're going to continue to get insight. But this thank

468
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 5: god for the idiots, Thank god for the idiots. But

469
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 5: this level and this amount of detail, now all this

470
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 5: all cuts off when the Panama Papers drop. Incidentally, Panama

471
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 5: Papers dropping all their emails.

472
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, hold on, can't be doing this. Got

473
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: to get a little smarter. Another way to that's interesting,

474
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: that is yeah, anyway, it's this is a story that's

475
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 2: worth reading. I think you'll start it and be like,

476
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 2: A don't read long articles anymore? And how they attend

477
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 2: you're no, actually I just finished that article, okays.

478
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 8: It the reason that people should go to drops and

479
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 8: read the story. I mean, there are many reasons, but

480
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 8: one of I think the most important reasons is that

481
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 8: when you look at these emails, they are speaking in

482
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 8: the way that just confirms some of the most paranoid

483
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 8: conspiracy theorists fever dreams, which is to say, like actually

484
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 8: as puppet masters, right, Like, it is so wild to

485
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 8: hear them talking back and forth about just how they're

486
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 8: going to with the flick of a pen or the

487
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 8: click of the innterer button on your email, change Middle

488
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 8: Eastern politics, change geopolitics. And that's exactly they're speaking with

489
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 8: the arrogance of people who can do that with phone

490
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 8: calls and emails. And it's just wild to see it

491
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 8: in print, like in the email form.

492
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 5: And we used this quote in a previous article, but

493
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 5: and I wanted to reuse it in this one because

494
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 5: it involved Syria and it's still relevant. But also it's

495
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 5: just explains everything Epstein to Emily's point. Epstein writes to

496
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 5: Barack with with civil unrest exploding in Ukraine, Syria, Somalia,

497
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 5: and he spells somal your wrong, yeah, Libya, and the

498
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 5: desperation of those in power. Isn't this perfect for you?

499
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 5: It's like, you know, and Barack says, you're right in

500
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 5: a way, but not simple to transform it into a

501
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 5: cash flow a subject for Saturday, so real and so yeah.

502
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 3: Well I was just going to say too.

503
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 2: I mean, there's also the you know, the meta story

504
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: about why it's you guys that are doing this reporting

505
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: and writing all of these things out as well.

506
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, these these emails, we we had some early access

507
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 5: through uh this like nonprofit that was that got these

508
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 5: from whatever hacker group probably ran and released them. But

509
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 5: now you know, basically any media outlet could get access

510
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 5: to these emails. You just have to You just have

511
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 5: to basically reach out and say, hey, I'm a news outlet,

512
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 5: can we have access to these emails? And they say yes,

513
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 5: as long as you're not using them for commercial purposes

514
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 5: or intel purposes, Like go ahead, here's the keys to

515
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 5: like look through the emails. That this is available to anybody,

516
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 5: You're right, and nobody. Like my editor in Osco who

517
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 5: worked on this story, she was flying to New York

518
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 5: for this event drop side event we had and she's like,

519
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 5: I don't want to edit the plane. I don't want

520
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 5: to edit the story on the plane because I'm nervous.

521
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 5: What if there's somebody else in here steal the story.

522
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 5: I was like, nobody's stealing this story. They could be

523
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 5: right there for that. They're in the open and they're

524
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 5: not doing it yet. Well, it's not that they don't

525
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 5: have the ability and the information. They don't have the

526
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 5: willingness to do the story. They don't want to do

527
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 5: the story.

528
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: There's so much money you attribute that to.

529
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 2: Is it the origin of the emails coming from Irani

530
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: and Hacker? Is it that they just don't they don't

531
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 2: want to dig into these power relationships?

532
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 3: Is Israel is exactly there? I wouldn't mind the.

533
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: Russia aspect of it. But Epstein and I.

534
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 5: Mean, when was the last time that you saw any

535
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 5: headline anywhere in the world that used the word messade?

536
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 5: Even like we all know this organization exists.

537
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 3: It's very wise.

538
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: Did interview with someone that's true?

539
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 5: You just you just don't talk about these things like

540
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 5: these are this is what, this is how the grown

541
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 5: ups run the world back there and and.

542
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 3: Pertend like it's different. It's so fascinating.

543
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's an incredible story.

544
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 8: I mean, just to see them speaking so flippantly about

545
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 8: how to make money and change your politics is completely

546
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 8: insane and right. And I think the big takeaway that

547
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 8: you made earlier, the point that you made earlier that's

548
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 8: a huge takeaway is like anyone who said Epstein wasn't acting,

549
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 8: I mean, this is because this is one of the

550
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 8: big questions about how Epstein made his money and influences,

551
00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 8: that he was back channeling negotiations between different countries, and

552
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 8: this actually confirms that. I mean, that's an argument that

553
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 8: you hear a lot from people who are deep in

554
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 8: the weeds in Epstein world. But it's it's plain as

555
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 8: day here in the report, like that's what's happening.

556
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 5: And yeah, and the thing exactly, the thing we're learning

557
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 5: from a lot of these emails and documents that we've

558
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 5: been reviewing recently is that Epstein was there's this there's

559
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 5: this idea that Epstein was just basically just on the

560
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 5: doll and doing nothing but running a blackmail operation. Uh

561
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 5: And and I don't think that that that that holds up.

562
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 5: Epstein was legitimately making connections between these spy agencies, between

563
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 5: these you know, top political figures around the world, and

564
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 5: when you get into the tax advice he was giving,

565
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 5: he was actually and maybe it was it's because he's

566
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 5: not a trained tax guy, like pushing the envelope on

567
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 5: a lot of tax strategies that legitimately was saving these

568
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 5: oligarchs and these and these billion and plutocrats in the

569
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 5: United States, you know, tens and hundreds of millions of dollars.

570
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 5: Like he he like he genuinely was doing the work

571
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 5: for these people that was making him valuable. Now is

572
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 5: he doing you know, blackmail and videoing all the gross

573
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 5: stuff that that people are doing on the side with him. Yeah, probably,

574
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 5: And that's part of it. And even if he's not,

575
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 5: everybody knows that he is, you know, a disgusting creature.

576
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 3: Well, they assume, they assume that he is, whether he

577
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 3: is or not.

578
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: In two thousands, they know he's tied in the jail,

579
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: and they know tied in with Israeli intelligence. Yeah, are

580
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: they going to like, you know, kick him out of

581
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: the bank or disassociate with him, or you know, cross

582
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: him in another any other way when he's number one

583
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: valuable in making them money and number two, they just

584
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: assume any bad thing, whether in the context of you know,

585
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: his island or just in their life in general, they

586
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: assume he's got act to all of that. So it

587
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: does help explain how he maintains all of these relationships

588
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: and all of this power even after he is a

589
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: literally like convicted registered sex offender.

590
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 5: Yeah and yeah, and who else is going to get

591
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 5: a meeting with Bill Clinton and then with Vladimir Putin

592
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 5: are it's a rare he had rare. He's like one

593
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 5: of the most connected people in the world at that time.

594
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, I wanted to read this one little section here,

595
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 7: It says in the same email thread, Epstein offered Barack

596
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 7: guidance on how to ratchet the pressure on the US

597
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 7: to strike Iran. I would use the opportunity to compare

598
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 7: it with Iran. The solutions become more complex with time,

599
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 7: not less. I think many people would like your views

600
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 7: on Egypt, Syria, et cetera, Russia's role question mark. I

601
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 7: think you might point out the gassing of women and

602
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 7: children is an expressions from the twentieth century. Women are

603
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 7: no longer equivalent to children, civilians verse combat in his

604
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 7: own w Yeah, it's it's surprising because you know, it's like,

605
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 7: I think most people just think of him as like

606
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 7: mainly doing the island stuff, but now he's a foreign

607
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 7: policy expert, yeah.

608
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 5: And it's in this This was the height of the

609
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 5: davos Man era where every everybody was an expert on everything,

610
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 5: and so if you spoke with authority, you didn't even

611
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 5: have to spell the countries right, and it was that

612
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 5: was good enough.

613
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 6: Well that's another crazy part. Yeah, you're just watching them like.

614
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 8: Totally boomer text, you know what I mean, Like in

615
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 8: these emails about changing geopolitics where they're all lowercase with

616
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 8: the most bizarre punctuation.

617
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 6: Sorry Boomers, but like just the craziest.

618
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 5: Back then and maybe today still was a power move

619
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 5: like I noticed, and christ you may remember this too,

620
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 5: Like really powerful people Ariana for instance, my will boss,

621
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 5: like they would. I think they leave in all the

622
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 5: typos and graradical errors and this display of their own

623
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 5: authority and power that like I don't.

624
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 3: Have to I don't have to care about. Yeah, well

625
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 3: you get my point.

626
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 5: You do the work to like interpret what I'm saying,

627
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 5: because you're going to because I am a person of

628
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 5: deep authority and power.

629
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: My son I think my son still still operates on

630
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: that model. Actually, to be honest with you, it's it's

631
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: actually a zoomer, a zoomer thing I learned this from Ella.

632
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: Actually that capitalized like proper capitalization of your sentence is

633
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: considered like an old person thing to do now or

634
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: like zoomers turn off the auto capitalize so that their

635
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: texts are all lowercase. That's yeah, that's a common they have.

636
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 5: That in common with Jeffrey Epstein. So good for them.

637
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: There you go, there you go.

638
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: So I mean I think, I mean in a way, Ryan,

639
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: you have put on the public record now like one

640
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: of the big mysteries, like you said, does Jeffrey Epstein

641
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 2: is he connected to Mazad?

642
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 3: You know, is he working with them? And okay, case closed?

643
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, we know that that's no longer no longer conspiracy

644
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: that is now recorded, known, reported out.

645
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 5: What's what's the relationship? How deep? What else did they do?

646
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 5: That remains to be discovered.

647
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: But now does he get himself into that position? All

648
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: of that is still you know, still up in the air.

649
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 2: But it's a sort of important piece of the puzzle

650
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: that you've that you've been able to fill in here.

651
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 2: And I just also do think it's extraordinary that the

652
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 2: lack of lack of interest from the national media the

653
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 2: opposite the anti interests from the national media in digging

654
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: into these emails because they could have had this scoop themselves,

655
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 2: you know.

656
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 8: Well, yeah, I mean there's this like maximum journalism. If

657
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 8: it bleeds, it leads, and everyone tends to blame journalists

658
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 8: for over sensationalizing stories and only covering bad stories, sad stories,

659
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 8: awful stories, but the fact that they're not interested. I mean, right,

660
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 8: the CBS News reporting on the prison and the cameras,

661
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 8: we've seen some of that. But if it bleeds, it leads,

662
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 8: it's clearly not true because this is the most sensational

663
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 8: Epstein material that you could report out. It's right there

664
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 8: at emails, and it reminds me of the time that

665
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 8: one reporter was I forget what the exact scoop was,

666
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 8: but Trump just came out and said it. And the

667
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 8: reporter was like, I've spent months investigating this and.

668
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 6: Just he just said it.

669
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 8: He just came out and said it, Like it's they're

670
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 8: saying it. They're just putting it plane here and it's

671
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 8: like juicy, like intriguing, crazy stuff and they're not touching it.

672
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I'm telling them now, we have a bunch

673
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 5: more stories to do. So if you want to scoop

674
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 5: us like you still can.

675
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 2: The opportunity is still available. Yeah, all right, we should

676
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: get to this heritage thing. But we didn't even mention

677
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: at the top of the show. Grand Plantner is joining

678
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 2: us in a little bit, so, and we asked our

679
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: premium subscribers to smit some questions for him as well,

680
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 2: so people can hear from him what they're interest it in.

681
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: But before we get to this, Emily, you want to

682
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 2: set up this this heritage situation.

683
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 6: I get the.

684
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: But I think I need I need some of the

685
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: like granular, like the texture, the color from you of

686
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: how you can.

687
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 5: Tell me where I get it wrong.

688
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I like that.

689
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, that'll be more responds my outside.

690
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 5: Here's my outside looking in. Uh, I mean, depending on

691
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 5: where you want to start. But for the sake of time,

692
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 5: we'll start with Tucker interviewing Nick Fuentes the other day. Uh,

693
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 5: you know, we we know Tucker can badger a guest.

694
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 5: Ted Cruz learned that firsthand.

695
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 8: Uh.

696
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 5: The Flentis interview was, you know, more of a kid

697
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 5: glove a situation. Now I noticed he like, you know,

698
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 5: Tucker has like made fun of him for being gay

699
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 5: in the past. And I noticed that Tucker spent like

700
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 5: an enormous amount of time kind of forcing him to

701
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 5: like talk about women, which I felt like Tucker's like

702
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 5: kind of passive aggressive way of messing with Flentis the

703
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 5: whole time because what women did?

704
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 7: They talk about all.

705
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 8: Of the women at one point foot this is like

706
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 8: Tucker was like, okay, so what's the problem and was.

707
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 6: Like, well, it's the women.

708
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, So like it's that part, it's just the whole.

709
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 5: The whole thing's ridiculously But so that created this. You know,

710
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 5: Fentis is like an on the record anti semi like right,

711
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 5: he doesn't he says like basically that he's anti Semitic

712
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 5: like that.

713
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: He like, yeah, he's one.

714
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: He's like the Jews control and it's not Israel, it's

715
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 2: the Jews. Like he he is a I mean he

716
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 2: he talks about being quote unquote radicalized on race even

717
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 2: and he'll talk about question like.

718
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 5: This is not a guy who's leaving who's trying to

719
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 5: like because.

720
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 3: Women should be burned at the stake more.

721
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: No, he is he is an overt like avowed identity

722
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 2: politics racist.

723
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 3: That is his ideology.

724
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 5: And so there's been this effort to kind of cut

725
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 5: Tucker off and this happened at tp USA. There was

726
00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 5: you know, Charlie Kirk was under a lot of pressure

727
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 5: and not let Tucker speak at his at his event,

728
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 5: and then Heritage came under pressure to distance itself from

729
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 5: Tucker Carlson, and so the head of Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts,

730
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 5: put out this startling video ONOTO to this, which and

731
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 5: we can talk about this a lot, but uh, there's

732
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 5: a bunch in here that just taking the traditional, like genuine,

733
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 5: I think reasonable definition of anti Semitism, not that like, oh,

734
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 5: you're criticizing Israel that's anti semitic, Like there are While

735
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 5: we go through this, we can just like count the

736
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 5: dog whistles in it like they're like and you can

737
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 5: and you can argue about whether or not people are

738
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 5: too sensitive to whether or not these are anti Semitic

739
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 5: dog whistles or not, but they're known and and he

740
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 5: and he deployed them anyway, Globalism venomous like venomous what

741
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 5: do you call them, uh, basically snakes or what ever. Anyway, Griffin,

742
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 5: if you want to play this, you'll it's you'll, you'll

743
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 5: you'll hear them like bing all the way through.

744
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 9: I'll have more to say on this in the coming days,

745
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 9: but today I want to be clear about one thing.

746
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 9: Christians can critique the state of Israel without being anti Semitic,

747
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 9: and of course anti Semitism should be condemned. My loyalty

748
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 9: as a Christian and as an American is to christ

749
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 9: first and to America always. When it serves the interests

750
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 9: to the United States to cooperate with Israel and other allies,

751
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 9: we should do so with partnerships on security, intelligence, and technology.

752
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 9: But when it doesn't, Conservatives should feel no obligation to

753
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 9: reflexively support any foreign government, no matter how loud the

754
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 9: pressure becomes from the globalist class or from their mouthpieces

755
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 9: in Washington. The Heritage Foundation didn't become the intellectual backbone

756
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 9: of the conservative movement by canceling our own people or

757
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 9: policing the consciences of Christians.

758
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 5: And we will start doing that now.

759
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 9: We don't take direction from comments on x though we

760
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 9: are grateful for the robust free speech debate. We also

761
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 9: don't take direction from members or donors, though we are

762
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 9: inherently grateful for their support and we're adding more every day.

763
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 9: This is the robust debate we invite with our colleagues

764
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 9: our movement, friends, our members, and the American public. We

765
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 9: will always defend truth, We will always defend America, and

766
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 9: we will always defend our friends against the slander of

767
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 9: bad actors who serve someone else's agenda. That includes Tucker Carlson,

768
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 9: who remains and as I have said before, always will

769
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 9: be a close friend of the Heritage Foundation. The venomous

770
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 9: coalition attacking him are sowing division. Their attempt to cancel

771
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 9: him will fail. Most importantly, the American people expect us

772
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 9: to be focusing on our political adversaries on the left,

773
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 9: not attacking our friends on the right. I disagree with

774
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 9: and even at poor things that Nick Flints says, but

775
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 9: canceling him is not the answer either. When we disagree

776
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 9: with the person's thoughts and opinions, we challenge those ideas

777
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 9: and debate. And we have seen success in this approach

778
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 9: as we continue to dismantle the vile ideas of the left.

779
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 9: As my friend Vice President Vance said last night, what

780
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 9: I am not okay with is any country coming before

781
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 9: the interest of American citizens. And it is important for

782
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 9: all of us, assuming we are American citizens, to put

783
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 9: the interest of our own country first. That's where our

784
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 9: allegiance lies and that's where it will stay.

785
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 5: And so the beginning of that is just normal, like, look,

786
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 5: you can criticize Israel and not be antisemitic. And we're talking.

787
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: Christians, specifically Christians according to I don't know so much

788
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: Ryan right launches with.

789
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 5: The Christian thing, but yet global venomous. The reference to donors,

790
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 5: like if he was writing this speech trying to cater

791
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 5: to more tender feelings about anti Semitism, that he wouldn't

792
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 5: have used those terms like those are those are very

793
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 5: deliberate and provocative terms to use in a video that

794
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 5: defends not not only their relationship with Tucker Carlton.

795
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:28,479
Speaker 4: But.

796
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 5: The engagement with wentest last thing I'll say, and I'm

797
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 5: talking too much here. I made this point on Twitter

798
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 5: in during the Obama years Netnya who basically went to

799
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 5: war with Obama over the Iran nuclear deal. And that

800
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 5: was kind of the beginning of the end of Israel's

801
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 5: relationship with the Democratic Party, which was already strained because

802
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 5: some Democrats would offer some rhetoric criticizing some human rights

803
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 5: abus related to the occupation, and the end that was

804
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 5: they did not want that. The Republicans were much more

805
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 5: willing to just be fine with whatever you're doing to

806
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 5: the Palestinians, and so they actively pursued this. They had

807
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 5: a bipartisan approach Apex and Israel, a bipartisan approach. They

808
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 5: switched it to a one party approach, still tight with Schumer, Jeffreys, etc.

809
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 5: The leadership, but went to war with the base of

810
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 5: the Democratic Party and abandoned the party more broadly and

811
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 5: lined up with a party roughly the same time that

812
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 5: Charlottesville is happening. It's clear that there's becoming this like

813
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 5: strong whintest element within this coalition, and so the long

814
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 5: term play of aligning with these kind of Christian nationalists

815
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 5: was to me always going to blow up in their face.

816
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 5: You then have two years of this genocide where the

817
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 5: younger Republicans are watching and unfold on their phones, and

818
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 5: the combination of that means they've basically lost everybody.

819
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 8: Now at this point, I feel like we're usually on

820
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 8: the same page of about the stuff I don't see,

821
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 8: the globalism and venomous and vile comments, and about donors.

822
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 6: I mean, I assume he addressed donors in that video,

823
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 6: because he was.

824
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 5: I think you can argue about whether those are whether

825
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 5: that's anti semitic. But but what's clear is that people

826
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 5: read that as anti semitic.

827
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 6: M yeah, I mean, whatever whatever was going on, and

828
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 6: to use.

829
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 5: It deliberately as then a provocative.

830
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: It was not written to cater to people who were

831
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 2: genuinely concerned about anti Semitism. It's written to cater to

832
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: Groper's who are the who apparently everybody in the party

833
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 2: is just afraid of at this time. I don't know,

834
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 2: I mean, judging by j Vance, judging by Tucker, judging

835
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: by this statement, like, I mean, that's Richard Hanani has

836
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 2: been arguing, like Nick quin As and the Gory Birds,

837
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: of the future of the Republican Party in a lot

838
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: of ways, and I've been saying this, I think they're

839
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 2: already the president of the Republican Party as it exists

840
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 2: right now.

841
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 8: Kevin Roberts is the man who greenlit Project esther and

842
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 8: there are a lot of internal divisions over the old

843
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 8: neo conservative line at Heritage that is categorically pro Israel

844
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 8: and pro the Coude, pro Nets and Yahoo at every turn,

845
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 8: unless they're also like going pro Smotrich, right, Like that's there's.

846
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 6: He has stood up to that.

847
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 8: He said they're not taking money from defense contractors anymore.

848
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 8: Now I would have to go back and look and

849
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 8: see how well that's held, but it has been explosive

850
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 8: inside of Heritage, and so what to Ryan's point, it

851
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 8: does sound like there was a deliberate writing of the

852
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 8: script to basically be like, we are not catering to

853
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 8: you guys over on whatever floor working over there on

854
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 8: Project Esther who are blowing up and maybe even like

855
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 8: having people blow us up on social media for being

856
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 8: affiliated with Tucker. Now, Tucker lost his job at Fox

857
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 8: within like a day of giving a big speech at

858
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 8: the Heritage Foundation about how there was like a spiritual

859
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 8: battle happening in American politics. And so Kevin Roberts is

860
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 8: I mean, there's a lot of like internal politics on this,

861
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 8: but Kevin Roberts is seen as somebody who has aligned

862
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 8: Heritage actually with like the grassroots MAGA universe as opposed

863
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 8: to like the DC MAGA universe. And so at the

864
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 8: same time, though he's got this like contingent of neo

865
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 8: cons over there doing a Project Ester thing, and he's

866
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 8: genuinely pro Israel, but he's also trying to like I

867
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 8: don't restily know that people are. I mean, I know

868
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 8: some people are definitely afraid of the grippers and of

869
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 8: Laura Lumer, but I think they're also like if we

870
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 8: sound like that. Seth dilanotp bet He wrote for The

871
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 8: Free Press, which was super controversial on the right, saying

872
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 8: we must gatekeep, we must gatekeep. What we actually want

873
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 8: to do to attract people to our side and to

874
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 8: get them to trust us is to say, hell, no,

875
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 8: do not gatekeep.

876
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 6: Gatekeeping is the worst thing possible.

877
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 8: It's like a virtue signal in one direction versus a

878
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 8: virtue signal in the other direction. And like, this video

879
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 8: has exploded the right, like the Maga coalition. Everyone is

880
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 8: like debating this and freaking out over it, and it

881
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 8: is like dividing people in personal sensitive ways. And he

882
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 8: actually might like lose his job. It's not impossible that

883
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 8: the board like votes him out over.

884
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 4: All of this.

885
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 2: Did you guys see this thing that was going around

886
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: that was like, you know, I'm told there's lots of

887
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 2: ideological diversity on the right. Here's the real ideological diversity

888
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: in the right. And it's a screenshot of Laura Lumer

889
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 2: fighting with someone else and she says to them you're

890
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 2: a Muslim, and they reply, you're a Jew.

891
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's kind of what's playing out here.

892
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:53,399
Speaker 7: Right.

893
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 2: You've got Stephen Miller, who is Jewish, who is also

894
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 2: a you know, a racist and white nationalist, just as Trump.

895
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 2: It'll tell you if he's being candid, who is you know,

896
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: extremely powerful. But he is on the side of like

897
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 2: the Muslims are the real batties. We've got to, you know,

898
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 2: we will back Israel, and in his view, Israel and

899
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: the Jewish people are all you know, this is all

900
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 2: tied together. This is not reality, but this is his view.

901
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 2: So we'll back Israel no matter what, and we'll do

902
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: everything we can to you know, they're like his wife

903
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 2: threatened jank Uger with deportation on Pures Morgan show the

904
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: other day, Right, that is that's that view. And then

905
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 2: the the Fuintes view, like the purest version of the

906
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: other side is no, it's actually really the Jews that

907
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: are the biggest problem, and they're controlling everything and that's

908
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 2: why we're doing all this stuff for Israel and whatever.

909
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 2: And so that is like this big divide that is

910
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: ultimately playing out. And so obviously DC, you know, the

911
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: Trump regime and their acolytes, and a lot of the

912
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 2: you know, the sort of like entrenched interest or whatever,

913
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: are on the Stephen Miller side of that, and then

914
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 2: you've Fuentes, which embodies the other side of that. And

915
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: so you know, to go back to the Tucker thing,

916
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 2: like this was very interesting to me as well, because

917
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 2: you're right, Tucker is very powerful media figure in his

918
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 2: own right, very talented media figure in his own right,

919
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 2: and flirts with the ideology that Nick Fuentes just says plain.

920
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 2: So when it was Tucker talking to wasn't it Candae,

921
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 2: He trashes funtess. He says he's a loser, he's a

922
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 2: gay loser in his mom's basement. But then when they're

923
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 2: face to face, no, it's it's kid. Let me hear

924
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 2: what you have to say. I think you've been taken

925
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: out of context. Don't you really mean this? Why don't

926
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 2: you tell me more about yourself? So that's why I say,

927
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 2: even someone as powerful and as talented as Tucker Carlson,

928
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 2: he's afraid of these guys. And you can see, you know,

929
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 2: the JD Vance event this week, the TPUSA event, you know,

930
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 2: a bunch of gripper questions you know, kids coming up

931
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 2: and being like, well what about your Hindoo wife coming

932
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 2: up and being like, well what about why are you

933
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 2: in hawk to Israel? And you know, take like a

934
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 2: Christian nationalist perspective on why that's a problem, Like they

935
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 2: are jd. Vance is the most online character you can imagine.

936
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 2: They are all well aware that this is where the

937
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 2: energy in the party is and they're.

938
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 3: Afraid of it. They're afraid of crossing it.

939
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 2: So on the question of gatekeeping, Emily, I mean, look,

940
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: I know we all have like pushed all of us

941
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 2: in our own way of push back on cancel culture

942
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 2: and like woke scolding and all this sort of stuff,

943
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 2: But you're not going to draw the line at a

944
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 2: literal Nazi like is there really literally nothing that is

945
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: out of bounds, because apparently that is increasingly the position

946
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 2: in the Republican Party and in the conservative movement, and

947
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 2: that's why it's becoming you know, increased, like incredibly radicalized

948
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 2: in a way that I think a lot of maybe

949
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 2: like Norby's outside, don't realize how much of this energy

950
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 2: there is at this point.

951
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 8: I think, Jen, Well, so this is kind of just

952
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,439
Speaker 8: as we're talking about thinking of this so Fuentas is

953
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 8: engaging in intense revisionist history.

954
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 7: And that's what I was gonna say to Emily. Yeah,

955
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 7: oh yeah, god, I'm.

956
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 2: Gem yeah, like, and I don't I don't hate anybody.

957
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah no, I don't hate anybody. It's like dude and Tucker.

958
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 2: And this is what was Sorry to cut you off, Emily,

959
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 2: but this is what I was so lame about Tucker's approach.

960
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 2: He said, Oh, let me hear you in your own words. No,

961
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 2: you need to take his words that he's actually said. Say, well,

962
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 2: what about when you said this, what did that mean?

963
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 2: Now that you're trying to present yourself in like a

964
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 2: launder yourself for a more mass audience, you can't just

965
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 2: put all that stuff in the pass unless you've had

966
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 2: some sort of genuine evolution, of which there is no

967
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: evidence whatsoever.

968
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 8: I think with this again, like I was working in

969
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 8: conservative campus politics at the time that Funts was a

970
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 8: sndant and the way he tells the story about how

971
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,720
Speaker 8: he ended up getting canceled is insane and untrue.

972
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 6: And he's like, I was just questioning Israel.

973
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 8: It's like, no, you fucking weren't, Like that's not actually

974
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 8: what was happening. Uh, And so I think there are

975
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 8: these like people who don't understand. Again, having dealt with

976
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 8: a lot of students, they get lost.

977
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 6: I wrote a whole lot.

978
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 8: Better for the Federalist this week about how to deal

979
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 8: with this stuff because it's so it's like genuinely dangerous,

980
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 8: but it's also not the majority. And the more that

981
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 8: you gate keep, the more that you push people in

982
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 8: that direction because they're like, hey, you're calling like it

983
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 8: doesn't matter if if we say one thing, we're gonna

984
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 8: get called Nazis, We're gonna get called bigots.

985
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 6: It doesn't matter.

986
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 2: I don't agree when when Nick Futes was canceled, he

987
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: was a much smaller presence, Like it worked when he

988
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,240
Speaker 2: was deplatformed and you didn't have all of these people

989
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 2: having let's just sit down and chat conversation describe he

990
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 2: was much less of a force, Like I don't think that.

991
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 2: I do think cancelation of him and gatekeeping Nazis it

992
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 2: was like it did work to a certain extent.

993
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 6: I think you just have to do it in a way.

994
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 8: This is what I wrote the pieces, like, you have

995
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 8: to do it in a way that doesn't alienate already

996
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 8: alienated people. So not Fuentes, but the people who are

997
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 8: listening to Fuenttes and are being taken in by him

998
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 8: saying that you are you're being called bad. You didn't

999
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 8: do anything wrong, but you're being called bad. You're just

1000
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 8: asking questions, but you're being called that. That's just what

1001
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 8: I'm saying, is like that does need to be You

1002
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 8: do have to do that carefully because there's this sense

1003
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 8: of like victim mentality among people who have to some

1004
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 8: degrees been alienated their colleges telling them this, that and

1005
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 8: the other thing.

1006
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 6: So I do think you have to be careful with it.

1007
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 6: That said, that said, it's just.

1008
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 8: Like the entire you don't have to talk to Nick

1009
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 8: fund Does, Like you actually don't have to talk to

1010
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 8: Nick fund Does, and you definitely don't have to then

1011
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 8: respond to people who are mad because someone else that

1012
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 8: you associate with talked to Nick Funtes. Like you can

1013
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 8: just not say anything about Nick Funtez and ignore him

1014
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 8: and let him whither or don't even you don't even

1015
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 8: have to ignore him, just be like this is insane,

1016
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 8: like where this is America? And Tucker went into this

1017
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 8: whole thing about blood guilt and about how that's anti American,

1018
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 8: But yeah, I mean, I don't think people are wrong

1019
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 8: to say he was much tougher on Ted Cruz than

1020
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 8: he was.

1021
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 6: On course, Like.

1022
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 8: There are a lot of especially because Flentes and Charlie

1023
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 8: Kirk that was the scene is like the dark and

1024
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 8: the Light on the right that like dark Charlie was

1025
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 8: actually Funtz and they were bitter enemies and went to

1026
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,879
Speaker 8: saw himself that way, and after what happened to Charlie Kirk,

1027
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 8: Fentis has been trying to rehabilitate himself and to like

1028
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 8: do the soft launch of fent Is two point zero,

1029
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 8: who's just anti Israel and just a Catholic anti Israel guy,

1030
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 8: And so I think a lot of people don't know

1031
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 8: what to do with that, but you definitely don't have

1032
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 8: to treat it like it's credible.

1033
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 7: He also complains to like he's like tell some of

1034
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 7: his fans, you guys are doing like low iq anti Semitism,

1035
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 7: Like I'm trying to do a professional, tidy tighty critique now.

1036
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 5: And I think that's a key point because effectively policing

1037
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 5: boundaries of conversation requires basically stigmatizing, you know, odious things,

1038
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 5: and you're canceling people requires kind of moral credibility, and

1039
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 5: that's why the left was able to do it in

1040
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 5: the twenty tens or so. They blew it, they overshot,

1041
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 5: they lost their moral credibility. That's why they can't kind

1042
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 5: of do it anymore. But Jonathan Greenblatt and the ADL

1043
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 5: and the entire kind of Zionist movement, by weaponizing anti

1044
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 5: semitism claims simply as a tool to like help out

1045
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 5: n Yahoo and help out Israel, destroyed the moral credibility

1046
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 5: of the claim of anti Semitism. And so people like

1047
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 5: twent has then recognized that's absolutely true. They have completely

1048
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 5: destroyed this. They don't have the weapon anymore. So now

1049
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 5: if I just talk about Israel, I'm completely covered and

1050
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 5: can smuggle my genuine exactly.

1051
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 6: Go ahead.

1052
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 7: I was just gonna say, outside of the Israel conversation,

1053
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 7: I do think that Nick Wentz's popularity is a product

1054
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 7: of conservative media having no Trump critiques like there is,

1055
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 7: and like Fuentez has critique Trump, not just on Israel,

1056
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 7: but a lot of stuff. And if you look, the

1057
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 7: majority of conservative media are kind of just ball liquors,

1058
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 7: like they there's no critiques on tariff, no critiques on anything,

1059
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 7: and Quentas does have that from the South. So if

1060
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 7: you are a young conservative who's not happy with something

1061
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,720
Speaker 7: that's not even not even israelated, but with that happy

1062
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 7: with something Trump related, well, Nick Quentez is filling that vacuum.

1063
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 7: So I actually think his popularity isn't just this Israel stuff,

1064
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 7: but the fact that he's willing to critique Trump on

1065
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 7: other things, something I see very few conservatives doing well, and.

1066
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 8: That's with young people are going down for Trump. He's

1067
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 8: like basically lost all of the games. So I think

1068
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 8: that's actually I think it also explains Tucker and Cannas's

1069
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 8: popularity right now. It's not like there is no criticism,

1070
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 8: like Tucker flirts with it. He hasn't gone full and

1071
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 8: criticizing Trump. But yeah, I think that's true.

1072
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,720
Speaker 2: Griffin well, and on the Israel point though, too, Like listen,

1073
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 2: they if you are giving people a frame of like

1074
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 2: the Jews are bad, and then you're like, look at

1075
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 2: this genocide two years, look at our politicians like doing

1076
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 2: everything that they want. Look at the way that the

1077
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 2: ADL tries to control you and smear you. Look at

1078
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 2: the way all these donors back Israel, like It's not

1079
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 2: hard to make that case, especially when to Ryan to

1080
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 2: your point, you have net, Yahoo and everybody else who's desion.

1081
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 2: It is insisting that every Jew be associated with this

1082
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 2: genocidal state. So Israel is doing half the work for

1083
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: the anti Semites by saying yes, of course, you know, yes,

1084
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: Jews must be associated.

1085
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 3: They are associated. They support what we're doing.

1086
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 2: Like they are doing, they are creating half of the

1087
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: propaganda that is necessary for the fuints Is of the

1088
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 2: world to be able to sell their view. And you know,

1089
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: in a sense, it reminds me a little bit of

1090
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 2: like Trump's rise, you know, or you could think of

1091
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 2: like a a Sarah Palin's rise, like the things that

1092
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 2: Fox News would flirt with, or you know, other conservative

1093
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 2: influencers would flirt with, the kind of dog was they'd

1094
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 2: flirt with. Trump would just come out and say and people,

1095
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 2: of course, people who have been sort of propagandized to

1096
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 2: think things in that direction, if you just come out

1097
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: and say yes, finally someone's actually saying it, not just

1098
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 2: doing the code words in the dog whistle. And so

1099
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 2: Fuentes is like the actually say it version of Candice

1100
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 2: Owens and Tucker Carlson. So you know, since there is

1101
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 2: this like you know, there's there's always been this strain,

1102
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 2: certainly on the right and going back a long time.

1103
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: But now with the you know, with the horrors we

1104
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 2: see coming out of Israel in the insane way our

1105
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 2: politicians behave vis a vis Israel, is just create a

1106
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 2: perfect perfect storm for the rise of this of this movement.

1107
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 2: And that's why I say, like, this is this is

1108
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 2: where the Republican Party is. The ideology is you know,

1109
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 2: incredibly baked in, especially among young conservatives, and you know,

1110
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 2: that's that's why I think a lot of these characters,

1111
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 2: including the Heritage Foundation people apparently this dude at least,

1112
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 2: are afraid of the grippers, and you know, feel like

1113
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 2: they have to sort of like contort themselves to to

1114
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 2: cater to them and to their hateful, like racist worldview.

1115
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 8: Last and I will say on this is that I

1116
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 8: think that is the like these young men I've talked

1117
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 8: to some of them, they grew up at the height

1118
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 8: of me too, at the height of cancel culture. They

1119
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 8: were going to schools where it was this constant uh

1120
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 8: drum beat about there by the way, So that's that's

1121
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 8: I just hope that there are lessons going forward about

1122
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 8: these broad categorizations of for example, anti semitism, because it

1123
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 8: does allow people to come in and weaponize it, and

1124
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 8: it's very seductive in those circumstances.

1125
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 3: Hey, great, right, how are you.

1126
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 6: Good?

1127
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 3: How are you better? What's what's going on?

1128
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 4: Really, chillings have been very, very very relaxing for me

1129
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 4: in the past weeks.

1130
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 3: I've been Yeah, that's that's stressful at.

1131
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 4: And I've been eating very healthy.

1132
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 3: So yeah, glad to do that. By maha of you?

1133
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 5: How much how much time you got?

1134
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 4: I honestly about let me look at the schedule. I

1135
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 4: don't think I've got anything. I've got a yeah, I

1136
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 4: got essentially as long as we need.

1137
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 5: So all right, Well, there's a lot of thing fun.

1138
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 5: There's a lot of fun, a lot of good, a

1139
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 5: lot of probing questions that we got that we can

1140
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 5: get to. But to start, does that Crystal or anybody

1141
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 5: want to start with anything from yourself before we get

1142
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 5: to the audience.

1143
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, let's go ahead. I mean, Graham, I do,

1144
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 2: I do. Just want to know, like you've you've been

1145
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 2: a candidate for a while, but this is really your

1146
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 2: first time with this level of like heated national media scrutiny,

1147
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 2: and so what has that what has that been like

1148
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 2: for you?

1149
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 4: I keep having to point this out to people. I've

1150
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 4: only been a candidate for like ten weeks, Like this

1151
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 4: thing that's kind of like we didn't launch until August nineteenth,

1152
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 4: and the whole conversation around the launch started at the

1153
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 4: beginning of August, so I mean, like, you know, end

1154
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 4: of July, none of this was remotely on my plate.

1155
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 4: I was still legitimately just farming oysters in Sullivan and

1156
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 4: having a very normal existence. So yeah, it's I mean

1157
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 4: it is I feel like I inhabit two worlds where

1158
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 4: there's like the whole politics, pundit class world, which I

1159
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 4: don't actually spend a lot of time at at all,

1160
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 4: but you know, obviously I have I interact with it

1161
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 4: because people send me stuff and I see things. But

1162
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 4: then there's like the actual world I inhabit, which is

1163
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 4: still eastern Maine where I live, and that's like a

1164
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 4: totally different world that's like that remains to be very normal,

1165
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 4: and all the people that I know still know me,

1166
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 4: and we all like every everybody's incredibly supportive. And then

1167
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 4: as we've been going around the state doing all the

1168
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 4: town halls stuff that continues to be. People turn out

1169
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 4: in droves and they want to talk and they want

1170
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 4: to they want to engage, and yeah, I mean it's

1171
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 4: very It's just funny that it's like the the the

1172
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 4: national media sphere, which I've always had a lot of

1173
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 4: cynicism and frankly like skepticism about the past like two

1174
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 4: weeks of my life. I'm just like, yeah, well that's

1175
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 4: all made up.

1176
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, well I saw this.

1177
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 2: I saw this extraordinary report from Alex Heitzwald, who I

1178
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 2: used to work out with back in the day at MSNBC,

1179
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 2: and he went from being a reporter from NBC to

1180
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 2: I guess starting at like the main newsvillleg.

1181
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 4: And of course because it like we all know a

1182
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 4: lot of the same people, unsurprised, I'm.

1183
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 3: Sure, I'm sure you do.

1184
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:50,919
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1185
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 2: So I saw him doing a report on MSNBC and

1186
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 2: he's like, guys, this is the biggest disconnect I've ever

1187
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: seen between on the ground and national media coverage. And

1188
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 2: I have tried to find anyone who has like turned

1189
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 2: on Graham over the Reddit story, over the tattoo, and

1190
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 2: I have tried really hard, and I can't find anyone

1191
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 2: and I'm curious if you have found it. I mean,

1192
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 2: obviously you had a campaign personnel who departed who was

1193
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 2: has turned on you. So we've got that one certainly publicly.

1194
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 2: But I wonder if you know, you have had people

1195
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 2: in person tell you, you know that they're upset or

1196
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 2: they're disappointed, or they're switching support. What have you experienced

1197
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 2: with that regard?

1198
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 4: Only one person has texted me saying that the and

1199
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 4: it was actually it's a very weird one too, because

1200
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 4: essentially they completely misread a comment I made like eight

1201
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 4: years ago, and they've just and they're like, like, I

1202
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 4: didn't get defensive about it, but like what they reference.

1203
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 4: I'm like, I didn't. I never even said what you

1204
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 4: thought I said. I mean, he clearly didn't even read anything.

1205
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 4: But that's okay. One and the rest has just been

1206
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 4: overwhelming amounts of support. I mean, like, my phone is

1207
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 4: a nightmare, but not because people are mad at me.

1208
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 4: My phone's a nightmare because I just I have hundreds

1209
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 4: of missed messages of people just saying stick with it.

1210
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 4: This is insane, you know, we're I mean, it's all like, yeah,

1211
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 4: overwhelming support and so but no, there was, but there

1212
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 4: was one person who was like, I can't abide it,

1213
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 4: and then I read why and I was like, I

1214
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 4: never even said that, dude, But that's so I'm not

1215
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 4: gonna you know, I'm not. I don't take things very personally,

1216
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 4: so I you know, it's fine.

1217
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna get into what do you What do

1218
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 2: you say to lefties who are worried about getting fetterment?

1219
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 4: If I was me looking at me, I would worry

1220
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 4: about the same thing. So I I mean, I get it,

1221
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 4: we've been burned before. I think a couple of things

1222
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 4: I would say is there were plenty of hints around

1223
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 4: Fetterman early on that maybe things weren't quite what they seemed.

1224
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 4: I don't despite what people are claiming are in my

1225
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 4: reddit posts. I think my reddit posts show up fairly like.

1226
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 5: What would you flaggers? Those? I agree with you, and

1227
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 5: I think we elevated some of them, probably but not

1228
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 5: enough to our discredit. What do you What do you

1229
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 5: think are some of those hints for Fetterman?

1230
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, Israel from the get go, you know,

1231
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 4: there was there and then also like there were there

1232
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 4: was a lot of that kind of shying away even

1233
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 4: early on from I would say more like progressive social change,

1234
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 4: like trying to and I don't shy away from that.

1235
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 4: I mean, it's not the core of what we're doing here.

1236
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 4: I think economic social justice or economic justice is the

1237
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 4: core of what needs to be done. But I'm also

1238
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 4: not willing to frankly back off wins that we've had

1239
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 4: towards justice and equality in this country. And I'm very

1240
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 4: blunt about that. So yeah, I and then there's also

1241
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 4: the element that and I don't like Fetterman was trying

1242
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 4: to get into politics for a long time. I still

1243
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 4: don't really want to be doing this. In some ways.

1244
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 4: I'm doing this because I, frank I mean because I

1245
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 4: have I mean, I didn't go looking for it. I

1246
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 4: was approached with this idea. It it is a there

1247
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 4: is a moment in history right now where I think

1248
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 4: my kind of politics, the politics I want to see

1249
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 4: in politics is just ripe for developing. And that's why

1250
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 4: I'm doing it. But I'm I've not been I mean,

1251
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 4: I mean, everybody likes pointing out I have no background

1252
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 4: in politics, and I don't. I mean, I have a

1253
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 4: very political background, but not in electoral politics and campaigning,

1254
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 4: because I yeah, the kind of politics I look at

1255
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 4: I view as it's very power focused and it's very

1256
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 4: organizing focused, and that's where I've put my energy for

1257
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 4: years at this point. But that's also what we're doing

1258
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 4: with this campaign.

1259
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 6: So what do you say to that?

1260
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 8: Because I look back on Fetterman and it's like, this

1261
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 8: is a guy who came from a very good background

1262
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 8: and was kind of doing what I would say it

1263
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 8: was like the stolen working class valor, like walking around

1264
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 8: as though he was just you know it, his T.

1265
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 6: Shirts and his car hearts and the like.

1266
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 8: What do you say to people who are now bringing

1267
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 8: up like reboarding school and all of that sort of thing,

1268
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 8: Like what's your response, because there's been some of that circuit.

1269
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 4: My grandfather was an architect who worked with Saren and

1270
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 4: a few others who he's not like famous famous, but

1271
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 4: he designed windows.

1272
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 7: On the world.

1273
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 4: He designed the lobby at the Saint Louis arch a

1274
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 4: few of these things, and it's pretty. But it's very

1275
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 4: funny too because growing up, like I knew my grandfather

1276
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 4: was like an architect, but I didn't know what that meant.

1277
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 4: And there's also this kind of weird thing where like

1278
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 4: I mean, my parents, like I grew up in eastern Maine,

1279
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 4: like I was. My mom has been. She likes, she

1280
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 4: doesn't have a college degree. She started a restaurant in

1281
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 4: the nineteen seventies in Bar Harbor, and she's essentially been

1282
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 4: a serial entrepreneur in the food industry since. She still

1283
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 4: runs a restaurant to this day because she has no

1284
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 4: money and she can't retire. I mean, she's in her

1285
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 4: seventies and she's still running a restaurant, like it's my

1286
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 4: My dad was a small town lawyer, and I mean

1287
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 4: I grew up I would say, like solidly middle class,

1288
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 4: but also in eastern Maine. So there's this weird mix

1289
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 4: of I mean I got my first W two job

1290
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 4: before I went to high school, Like, I worked all

1291
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 4: through high school. I washed dishes, I did landscaping. I

1292
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 4: worked on the Appalachian Mountain Club's trail crew. I bag

1293
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 4: groceries and push carts at Hanneford. I mean, I have

1294
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 4: always worked since and I come from a family. I

1295
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 4: don't know like that, that's just kind of what you do.

1296
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 4: And I know that they're trying to frame me as

1297
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 4: some like silver spoon, a rich kid, but I'm sorry,

1298
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,640
Speaker 4: like it to anybody that like comes down here and

1299
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 4: asks around about how I grew up and my like

1300
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 4: everybody here knows it's nonsense, but I my mom did

1301
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:06,120
Speaker 4: want me to go to a good high school, and

1302
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 4: the local school which I wanted to go to had

1303
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 4: lost its accreditation through the state in like ninety nine,

1304
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 4: and so there were a number of families around here

1305
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 4: that sent their kids up to Bangor to go to

1306
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 4: John Appst, which at the time was just kind of

1307
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 4: like it was a private school, but it's weird and

1308
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 4: it's not. It wasn't like choked or something. And my

1309
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 4: mom did try to send me to Hotchkiss for half

1310
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,640
Speaker 4: a semester in the beginning of my sophomore year, and

1311
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 4: I realized I was the only kid who'd ever worked,

1312
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:42,759
Speaker 4: and I hated everybody, and so I I got myself

1313
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:44,639
Speaker 4: thrown out because I found out that if you don't

1314
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 4: go to class and prep school, they just send.

1315
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 6: You home and maybe a formative experience.

1316
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 4: I mean, without exaggeration, deeply, I had never engaged with

1317
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 4: people with like that kind of wealth and lifestyle like

1318
01:09:59,280 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 4: it was.

1319
01:09:59,640 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 8: It was.

1320
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 4: I mean, my middle school had like there were like

1321
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 4: thirteen kids in my graduating class. Yeah, like I grew

1322
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 4: up in a really tiny town uh in eastern Maine,

1323
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 4: full of a lot of poverty.

1324
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 5: So now does Maine does Maine have I know Vermont

1325
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 5: has this thing, but does Maine have the thing where

1326
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:20,600
Speaker 5: if your high school loses its state accreditation, then the

1327
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:25,679
Speaker 5: local town uh subsidizes the private school tuition and otherwise

1328
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 5: did the did the town then.

1329
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 4: Subsidiz because what the private because the year after the

1330
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 4: school got its accreditation back.

1331
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 5: Okay, so then, but at that point, my mom was just.

1332
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 4: Like, well you're in You're like, you're going to this

1333
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,600
Speaker 4: high school because it's where you've started and I and like,

1334
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:44,680
Speaker 4: at that point, I liked going there. I mean, it

1335
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 4: was a good it was it was a good school.

1336
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 4: I got a great high school education. It was also cool,

1337
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 4: I just because it's in Bangor. I drove an hour

1338
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 4: from Sullivan, and there were other kids that went to

1339
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,440
Speaker 4: John Bapps who drove an hour from all the other directions.

1340
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 4: So I met kids from all over the state of Maine,

1341
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 4: and it was it was an interesting mix because you

1342
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 4: would like kids from like wealthy families, you know, car dealerships,

1343
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 4: that kind of thing, and then there were a lot

1344
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 4: of kids who just went there because it was a

1345
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 4: good school and they got in and uh and they

1346
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 4: you know, the kids that lived in mobile home parks.

1347
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,879
Speaker 4: But it was a very main wealth and Maine is interesting.

1348
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:25,679
Speaker 4: I think it actually gives us a different It's actually

1349
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 4: why I think are politics is kind of the way

1350
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 4: it can be, because there's this weird mix of ultra

1351
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 4: rich and ultra poor, but everybody still inhabits the same

1352
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 4: space and people know each other. It's very it's weird,

1353
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 4: so weird.

1354
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that is something I wondered about

1355
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 2: because I mean, Maine is a very rural state predominantly,

1356
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 2: and it's a very white state, and yet it's still

1357
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 2: you know, and those are demographics that have fled the

1358
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,639
Speaker 2: Democratic Party in most of the country, probably like Maine

1359
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 2: and Vermont are some of the only exceptions to that.

1360
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,840
Speaker 2: And yet obviously Democrats can and do who still win

1361
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 2: in the state of Maine. So I was curious about

1362
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 2: what has kind of kept that that politics together.

1363
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 4: I think part of it is the fact that Maners

1364
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 4: are even a lot of conservative Maners still kind of

1365
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 4: have a distrust of like the of the system and

1366
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 4: the ultra wealthy. There is the residual kind of leftovers

1367
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 4: of what the Democratic Party used to be. Uh, and

1368
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 4: my opinion should be again, there is I mean there,

1369
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 4: but there's also I would say, like a social progressivism

1370
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 4: even amongst I mean a lot of conservatives I know

1371
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 4: are also pro gay marriage, and and you know they

1372
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 4: like they don't care about that. They're their conservatism is

1373
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 4: it's around guns, it's around Weirdly at this point, like

1374
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 4: this kind of Trump style anti establishment element, which I

1375
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 4: actually think is why like a working class oriented message

1376
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 4: works really well. I mean, I mean, I know guys

1377
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 4: who will literally say things like can't stan Bernie Sanders

1378
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 4: he's a communist, but I still love him. He still

1379
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 4: he still cares, And you're like, okay, these are guys

1380
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 4: like Marc Donald Trump, so they're like there's still a

1381
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 4: fair amount of that up here. And then there's also

1382
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 4: just the fact that Southern Maine at this point is

1383
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 4: kind of a more like standard like liberal hub. Uh,

1384
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 4: and there's a lot of voters down there, so.

1385
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 3: Well I have Oh sorry, I'm just to quick follow up,

1386
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:34,600
Speaker 3: go ahead, go ahead, I'm just on like.

1387
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 8: The culture question of Crystal's question about how to keep

1388
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 8: this together, Like I said, your Instagram post about not

1389
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:42,880
Speaker 8: and this is a a is the populace left kind

1390
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 8: of reckons with what's happened over the last ten years,

1391
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 8: the idea of like what to do on trans issues

1392
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 8: and immigration issues.

1393
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 6: I saw you post on Instagram that you have no

1394
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 6: intention of.

1395
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 8: Throwing trans kids under the bus or you know, immigrants

1396
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 8: under the bus, that sort of thing. But how do

1397
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 8: you talk to people who disagree with you completely? Like

1398
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:01,240
Speaker 8: Janet Mills is getting sued by the Trump administration over

1399
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 8: the idea of whether trans athletes like should be able

1400
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 8: to compete in women's sports, and that matters a lot

1401
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 8: to a lot of like Trump, curious maners whose trust

1402
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:11,840
Speaker 8: you need to win over the same thing with Like

1403
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 8: Bernie came out and said Trump did secure the border

1404
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:16,519
Speaker 8: when he was at Tim Dillon's show. So how are

1405
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 8: you navigating those conversations because that can't it's not easy.

1406
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:23,639
Speaker 5: But also, gily A, let me add an audience question

1407
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 5: to that, because there's there's one that really lines up

1408
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 5: with this. I'm not going to do the guy's handle

1409
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 5: because it's inappropriate for a family show. But he says

1410
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 5: what they say, Uh love your left populist economics, but

1411
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:39,719
Speaker 5: can't stand your dogged refusal to moderate on unpopular culture

1412
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:42,759
Speaker 5: war issues. How is protecting women's sports shelters and prisons

1413
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:47,519
Speaker 5: from opportunistic males quote throwing trans people under the bus? Unquote?

1414
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:50,719
Speaker 5: How is ensuring we have a functioning border and limiting

1415
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:54,559
Speaker 5: illegal immigration quote throwing immigrants under the bus? Question mark?

1416
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 5: And no, I do not support Trump's policy either, so

1417
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 5: to kind of dovetails of what was asking, Oh, the

1418
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:04,840
Speaker 5: immigration front, we need to have a total overhaul of

1419
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:09,560
Speaker 5: immigration policy in this country. The immigrant the foundations of

1420
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 5: it were written in the seventies and we only did

1421
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 5: some overhauls in the nineties, which frankly weren't even that intense.

1422
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:19,760
Speaker 5: We are living with an with an immigration structure that

1423
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 5: was built for a world that we no longer inhabit,

1424
01:15:22,479 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 5: and we're going to continue running in like, and this

1425
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 5: is why you know, people are like, oh, Obama did this,

1426
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 5: and Biden did this, and Trump did this and like,

1427
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 5: and it's like and when you look at it in

1428
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 5: the aggregate, there aren't that big of changes because the

1429
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 5: law never changed. I think that we do need to

1430
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 5: have a legal pathway to citizenship for people who've been

1431
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 5: here for ages. I'm sorry rounding them up and throwing

1432
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 5: them out is not going to happen.

1433
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 4: It's not. And also it's as we are seeing right now,

1434
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 4: the doing of it is pretty unconscionable. But that doesn't

1435
01:15:57,320 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 4: mean that we don't have a border, and that doesn't

1436
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 4: mean we don't have like an effective system. We need

1437
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 4: to have a system that is I would say reflective

1438
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 4: of the needs of our time and the realities that

1439
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 4: we live in, and it is. It's going to require

1440
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:17,600
Speaker 4: more judges, it's going to require more courts, it's going

1441
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:22,680
Speaker 4: to require more energy and time to adjudicate, whether it's

1442
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 4: asylum cases, whether it's people with their legal applications. But

1443
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 4: we've never been able to do that because there's been

1444
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:33,560
Speaker 4: no coherent overhaul of the underlying policies. And what I

1445
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:35,560
Speaker 4: mean by not throwing immigrants under the bus, I'm not

1446
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:38,559
Speaker 4: saying that we don't have to overhaul our immigration system.

1447
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:41,519
Speaker 4: We absolutely do. I don't think the answer there is

1448
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:46,280
Speaker 4: armed masked men kidnapping people off of work sites. And

1449
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 4: I'm going to say that I think that's a good idea.

1450
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 4: I'm never going to like, will I refuse. I mean,

1451
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:56,120
Speaker 4: that's just authoritarianism, that's garbage. And it's also it might

1452
01:16:56,200 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 4: opinion unconstitutional, So there are yeah, we shouldn't be doing

1453
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 4: that on the issue around like trans people. I do

1454
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 4: not believe, and I think this is true for a

1455
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 4: lot of manors as well, because we have a real

1456
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:15,840
Speaker 4: libertarians treat cup here, including us lefties m M. It

1457
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 4: is not the role of the federal government to come

1458
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 4: down and tell people, tell communities, tell school boards, tell

1459
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:26,720
Speaker 4: municipalities how to handle what are frankly, often very complicated

1460
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:32,200
Speaker 4: and nuanced discussions. We need to set standards when it

1461
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 4: comes to equality and decency and treating everybody like that.

1462
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 4: But I do not think it's the role of the

1463
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:43,600
Speaker 4: United States Senate to go down into a municipality or

1464
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 4: go to a local school board and tell them how

1465
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 4: they're supposed to figure out what can frankly be deeply

1466
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 4: complicated discussions. That is not the role of the federal government,

1467
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 4: and I think that there are a lot of people

1468
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 4: who don't think that's the role of the federal government.

1469
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 4: I also think, and just be very upfront, that this

1470
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 4: continues to get pushed and pushed and pushed as this

1471
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 4: huge discussion. So we don't talk about universal health care,

1472
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 4: so we don't talk about the fact that we need

1473
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 4: to remove the cap on Social Security, or that we

1474
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 4: need to raise taxes on frankly, pharmaceutical companies and big

1475
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:27,000
Speaker 4: agricultural corporations that have just been building an apparatus that

1476
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 4: screws working people constantly for their own benefit. We don't

1477
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 4: talk about that stuff because we spend all this time

1478
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,680
Speaker 4: talking about things that I think are nuanced discussions that

1479
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:40,960
Speaker 4: should be left up to municipalities. Again, it doesn't mean

1480
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 4: that doesn't mean the federal government comes down and says, hey,

1481
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 4: municipalities can just do whatever they want, and we can

1482
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 4: treat people unequally. We need to set basic constitutional standards.

1483
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:55,680
Speaker 4: But these are complicated discussions, and I don't think it's

1484
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 4: the role of the US Senate to have them.

1485
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 5: Uh we've got some. We got a whole bunch on

1486
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:06,720
Speaker 5: you know, your service and then also your time with

1487
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 5: the Blackwater offshoot what cantell Us, I think it was

1488
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 5: called one of them. Uh so from la all Flow

1489
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:19,640
Speaker 5: says like, how does someone with your worldview end up

1490
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:22,200
Speaker 5: working for Blackwater? I think a lot of people on

1491
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 5: the left would find that helpful to hear. They're worried

1492
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:26,639
Speaker 5: you might be another Federic Man. Fetterman is haunting.

1493
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 3: There's a lot of traumas. I feel it too, There's

1494
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 3: a lot.

1495
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 5: Of he says, but I don't think you are. There

1496
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 5: were already signs of who Federman was when he was

1497
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,599
Speaker 5: running and caving to d m F. I pro Israel alone.

1498
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, not so much that whole incident where he like

1499
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 2: tried to murder a random black eye and yeah, maybe.

1500
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 7: He said.

1501
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:51,839
Speaker 5: You touched on this a bit during your last appearance

1502
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 5: on the show when you talked about your US military service,

1503
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:56,840
Speaker 5: but we didn't go into much into this the State

1504
01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:59,800
Speaker 5: Department security contractor So who did you work for?

1505
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:00,639
Speaker 7: Why?

1506
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:04,760
Speaker 5: And why and why? And for people who are skeptical

1507
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 5: of American Empire? Why should that not be disqualified? So

1508
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:10,440
Speaker 5: I never worked for Blackwater.

1509
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:13,960
Speaker 4: This is a I've I've been like, I see this everywhere,

1510
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 4: and I'm always like, oh, for God's sake. The company

1511
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:21,599
Speaker 4: that we all know is Blackwater, the one that Jeremy

1512
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:24,680
Speaker 4: Scahill wrote about back in the late two thousands, that

1513
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:30,160
Speaker 4: that company Eric Prince's little kind of warlord fantasy. That

1514
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 4: company essentially went away after twenty twelve and the it

1515
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:38,479
Speaker 4: was sold. I forget who bought it. There were there

1516
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:44,439
Speaker 4: were several iterations afterwards similar like same facility down in

1517
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:47,200
Speaker 4: North Carolina's and and this is something that I think

1518
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 4: gets lost in all of this. The State Department has

1519
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 4: contracts for high threat security. They don't they don't do

1520
01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:02,719
Speaker 4: it in house. And the contract were written with very specific,

1521
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 4: specific requirements about what kind of training people have to receive,

1522
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:08,519
Speaker 4: what kind of background they have to have. It's all

1523
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 4: around combat backgrounds, combat arms, special operations, infantry of that

1524
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 4: kind of thing. And so they've maintained those contracts. There

1525
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 4: were only a few companies for a long time who

1526
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:27,920
Speaker 4: could meet any of those requirements. Triple Canopy, Blackwater back

1527
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 4: in the day, and then the Academy afterwards, z SoC SMG.

1528
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:36,760
Speaker 4: There were a number of these outfits, and because they

1529
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:39,400
Speaker 4: were the ones who had the training facilities, they knew

1530
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 4: how to meet the contract requirements. There's a story in

1531
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:45,720
Speaker 4: all of this that I think often gets lost, which

1532
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:50,640
Speaker 4: is that after Blackwater folded, hedge funds started buying all

1533
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 4: of it up and because they saw they essentially saw

1534
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 4: it like if you if you can have all the companies,

1535
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:02,320
Speaker 4: then you can set your price. You're the only ones

1536
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 4: that have the ability to meet the contract requirements by

1537
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:07,240
Speaker 4: the time I got around to doing this, which is

1538
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen. So I left the Army in twenty twelve.

1539
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 4: I frankly didn't know what to do with my life

1540
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:18,679
Speaker 4: for the next six years. And it's some In twenty seventeen,

1541
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:22,120
Speaker 4: I was back in Maine, utterly lost, had left college,

1542
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,519
Speaker 4: didn't know what I was doing. But I was fully

1543
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:29,640
Speaker 4: qualified to go work for the State Department in Afghanistan.

1544
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 4: And I had a lot of friends who were on

1545
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 4: that contract. And so essentially a friend of mine hit

1546
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:36,800
Speaker 4: me up on Facebook is like, hey, dude, what are

1547
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:39,040
Speaker 4: you doing. I'm like, honestly, man, I have no idea.

1548
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:41,439
Speaker 4: I'm lost. I can't figure out where I fit in

1549
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 4: this whole thing. And he was like, I mean, come

1550
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 4: on over and get on the Ambos detail, and you

1551
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 4: know it's the Money's okay. We don't do it like

1552
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:52,599
Speaker 4: we did noth I mean, this is by twenty eighteen.

1553
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're talking about what you actually did. Because people

1554
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 5: think of it as like you went out there and

1555
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:59,080
Speaker 5: you're shooting kids record.

1556
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 4: All of that used to happen back in the late

1557
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,160
Speaker 4: two thousands, like all of like all the horror stories

1558
01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 4: from that shit are true. Sorry all that it is there,

1559
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:12,679
Speaker 4: But there's also a reason why the hammer came down,

1560
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:19,040
Speaker 4: because that stuff happened by the time I get there. Essentially,

1561
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:23,519
Speaker 4: it's just like it's a corporate money grab, and like

1562
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 4: they use guys like me with these backgrounds to meet

1563
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:31,879
Speaker 4: the contract requirements so they could pay us bare minimum

1564
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 4: and walk away with the balance, which is proctubly what

1565
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,679
Speaker 4: everything in Afghanistan was. By twenty eighteen, whole things seemed

1566
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:41,839
Speaker 4: to exist purely to move taxpayer money into the pockets

1567
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:47,600
Speaker 4: of defense contractors. I was a driver on the Ambassador's

1568
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 4: advanced security team, So I would go to a venue

1569
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 4: before the Ambo would go, and I drove the vehicle,

1570
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 4: and guys in the team would make sure that everything

1571
01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:57,640
Speaker 4: was set up and he'd be able to walk in

1572
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:00,160
Speaker 4: the door and meet the people. It was all in

1573
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:04,559
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen. We were barely leaving the Green Zone. There

1574
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:06,960
Speaker 4: were we didn't I mean, look, I was there for

1575
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 4: six months. I mean I probably went on like twelve

1576
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 4: or thirteen moves. All I did was lipped weights and

1577
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 4: play video games and and I got huge, and I

1578
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:21,120
Speaker 4: played a lot of Far.

1579
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:25,760
Speaker 7: Cry, Far Cry okay, nice, which one for.

1580
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:30,400
Speaker 4: The Montana one? The one that was all yeah, oh okay, yeah, yeah.

1581
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:35,479
Speaker 4: It was deeply boring and it was which was I mean,

1582
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:37,200
Speaker 4: for me at that point was good because I was like,

1583
01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 4: I wasn't I was overlooking for excitement. I was just

1584
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:41,840
Speaker 4: trying to figure out what it was the only skill

1585
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:46,320
Speaker 4: I had. And so I but you know, six months

1586
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:50,760
Speaker 4: I actually, honestly three months into it, I was done.

1587
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,160
Speaker 4: I was like, this is such a waste. And then

1588
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 4: there was this other element where there I am at

1589
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:59,160
Speaker 4: the embassy, like watching the embassy staff and watching the

1590
01:24:59,240 --> 01:25:01,720
Speaker 4: embacts that are in generals and the NATO staff and

1591
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:06,200
Speaker 4: the UN staff and no new ideas. I hadn't been

1592
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:10,519
Speaker 4: in Afghanistan in seven years, and there I am seven

1593
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:14,240
Speaker 4: years later at like with access to the whole, all

1594
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:18,680
Speaker 4: the brain trust. Nothing had changed, same nonsense.

1595
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 8: Wow.

1596
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 4: And I was like, I'm this one. We are going

1597
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:24,840
Speaker 4: to lose this war and when it collapses, it's going

1598
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 4: to be a mess. Now. I don't want to say

1599
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:30,360
Speaker 4: I was right, but you know, and I didn't want

1600
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 4: to be there when that happened. But two, I was like,

1601
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:35,880
Speaker 4: there's no purpose to this. Nobody has any idea like

1602
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 4: it's in the Embassy's constantly under under construction because there's

1603
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 4: always some new security threat that we have to pay somebody,

1604
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:47,360
Speaker 4: some contractor comes in and has The whole thing was

1605
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:50,920
Speaker 4: just a scam. It's just one huge scam paid for

1606
01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:54,280
Speaker 4: by tax dollar money. And I wanted no part in it.

1607
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 4: So I quit. I was I was only there for

1608
01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:59,560
Speaker 4: six months. I quit, and I moved back to my

1609
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:02,120
Speaker 4: hometown and I became an oyster farmer. And I'll be honest,

1610
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 4: until this stuff happened, I had no intent on ever

1611
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 4: looking back because I was just I was done.

1612
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 3: You said someone approach you about running? Who was it

1613
01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:13,880
Speaker 3: that approached you?

1614
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:15,360
Speaker 4: So the past couple of years, I've done a lot

1615
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:21,400
Speaker 4: of community organizing. I I after I left Afghanistan, I

1616
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:24,639
Speaker 4: got real disillusioned and thought there was no value in anything,

1617
01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:27,400
Speaker 4: and that made me essentially sink all of my time

1618
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:30,880
Speaker 4: and energy into living in a small town, which ironically

1619
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:31,679
Speaker 4: then rebuilt.

1620
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 5: You've mentioned the community organizing. What you be more specifically?

1621
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:35,880
Speaker 5: Would you do you know?

1622
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:39,200
Speaker 4: I'm I was an organizer with local group called a

1623
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:42,880
Speaker 4: Kadia Action UH and we focused on i would say,

1624
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:49,200
Speaker 4: like building basic organizational capacity in the county I live in,

1625
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 4: getting people connected, getting people engaged with mutual aid projects,

1626
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 4: getting people engaged with identifying local races, and finding candidates

1627
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,840
Speaker 4: that people could run but locally all like local school

1628
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 4: board stuff, select board, that kind of thing. And really, honestly,

1629
01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 4: for me, I like I read No Shortcuts by Jane

1630
01:27:08,280 --> 01:27:12,000
Speaker 4: mcleavy a few years ago and then took Organizing for

1631
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 4: Power a couple of times, got really into this idea

1632
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:18,000
Speaker 4: of on the ground power building and I just didn't

1633
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:20,880
Speaker 4: see it in my I didn't see an exist.

1634
01:27:21,240 --> 01:27:23,799
Speaker 5: That's a labor training session, right, Yeah, it's a labor.

1635
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:26,360
Speaker 4: A labor labor organizing training. But I just took that

1636
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 4: into my community because where I live, labor organizing is

1637
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:36,800
Speaker 4: fairly hard because everybody has like seven jobs. The it

1638
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 4: was doing that that I got connected with a lot

1639
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:42,960
Speaker 4: more people around the state in labor and in like

1640
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:47,920
Speaker 4: kind of statewide organizing around economic justice issues. And there

1641
01:27:48,040 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 4: was a I mean, unbeknounced to me, there was a

1642
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 4: there was a move to try to find a candidate

1643
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 4: to run who came from like a working background, who

1644
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:59,400
Speaker 4: was a normal person living a normal life, to run

1645
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 4: on kind of an economic populism and Maine is tidy

1646
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:07,240
Speaker 4: and everybody knows each other. At some point, somebody's like,

1647
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:10,240
Speaker 4: you should go talk to Graham and Sullivan. Uh, And

1648
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 4: so they did. And my wife and I initially told

1649
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:17,040
Speaker 4: them to get out of our house because I mean,

1650
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:20,640
Speaker 4: I mean, like, I cannot like the whole concept is

1651
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:25,000
Speaker 4: insane to us. I mean we we've we my wife

1652
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:28,679
Speaker 4: and I have built a very idyllic but very small

1653
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:30,960
Speaker 4: and simple life. We do not make a lot of money.

1654
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 4: We weren't trying to. We run a very small oyster

1655
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 4: farm that is focused on, frankly like a high quality product.

1656
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:39,679
Speaker 4: We do a lot of tours. I like the eco

1657
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:42,800
Speaker 4: tourism side, because I think bivalve aquaculture is one of

1658
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:44,960
Speaker 4: the most fascinating things I've ever been involved in, and

1659
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 4: I want to tell everybody about it. And when I

1660
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:49,240
Speaker 4: go to the US Senate, Everyone's going to have to

1661
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:51,679
Speaker 4: hear about muscles and oysters for the rest of time.

1662
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:52,840
Speaker 4: You can't wait for that.

1663
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:55,720
Speaker 6: But but we.

1664
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:03,120
Speaker 4: When this idea came to us, the thing that we

1665
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:06,760
Speaker 4: realized is that as people who've dedicated a lot of

1666
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:10,559
Speaker 4: time past couple of years to organizing in our community,

1667
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:16,719
Speaker 4: this is an organizing opportunity that this is not about

1668
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,920
Speaker 4: just winning a Senate seat, this is about actually injecting

1669
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:25,360
Speaker 4: I would say, like the mechanics of on the ground

1670
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:31,720
Speaker 4: power building around working class issues that I have been

1671
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 4: waiting for and wishing to God existed my entire life essentially,

1672
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:42,240
Speaker 4: and we didn't go looking for it. It literally showed

1673
01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:45,439
Speaker 4: up at our doorstep. But we recognize that if we

1674
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:48,720
Speaker 4: don't take this. We had this moment of like do

1675
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 4: we believe in what we believe?

1676
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:54,600
Speaker 5: And to Crystal's question, who was that that showed up?

1677
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 4: It was a combination of folks, some folks I knew

1678
01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 4: from labor, people affiliate with the AFL, and then a

1679
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:06,800
Speaker 4: there were some input from people who came who had

1680
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:10,360
Speaker 4: worked on Dan Osborne's campaign, who are a whole kind

1681
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:12,240
Speaker 4: of project try to do something similar.

1682
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:17,680
Speaker 5: So I heard from people on dan Osborne's campaign who

1683
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:22,479
Speaker 5: flagged your campaign for me, So that actually tracks Graham.

1684
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:25,800
Speaker 2: I share your sense that the moment is right for

1685
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:30,120
Speaker 2: your politics, which of course very much similar to my politics.

1686
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:35,479
Speaker 2: But and like obviously you had that same inkling is

1687
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:39,439
Speaker 2: what do you think has struck a nerve or hit

1688
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:42,280
Speaker 2: a chord in Maine? Because I think it's pretty undeniable

1689
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:44,400
Speaker 2: at this point. I mean, here you are, ten weeks

1690
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 2: into a race. You're, according to a lot of polls

1691
01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:49,960
Speaker 2: up on the sitting governor of Maine, certainly competitive with

1692
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:52,240
Speaker 2: the sitting governor of Maine. We all watch your town

1693
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:55,719
Speaker 2: hall after your scandal broke. There's seven hundred people. There's

1694
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 2: overflow capacity. It's literally in a town of just over

1695
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:03,479
Speaker 2: two thousand people, like totally insane. So there's clearly something

1696
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 2: happening here to what do you attribute that energy?

1697
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 4: The material conditions for regular people are getting worse, Like

1698
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:22,559
Speaker 4: here in Maine, our hospital system is legitimately collapsing. It's

1699
01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:25,639
Speaker 4: not academic, it's not theoretical like it's going to happen

1700
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 4: a year from now. Hospitals are closing now, people cannot

1701
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:34,839
Speaker 4: get access now. Elderly people are dying in their homes

1702
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:40,479
Speaker 4: in undignified, horrific ways alone right now because there is

1703
01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:50,240
Speaker 4: no support for them. That's happening. It's happening, and people

1704
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:54,559
Speaker 4: continue to be told by the kind of I would say,

1705
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 4: the establishment political system that things are still actually okay

1706
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:03,000
Speaker 4: all in all, that we don't need to try anything new,

1707
01:32:03,479 --> 01:32:05,920
Speaker 4: that really what we need to do is kind of

1708
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:11,519
Speaker 4: double down on sort of more corporate establishment Democrats, but

1709
01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:14,160
Speaker 4: not even that, I mean just kind of the whole

1710
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 4: thing is like everybody sees what's happening. Everybody can like witness.

1711
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:25,040
Speaker 4: Everybody's watching videos of massed federal agents kidnapping people. They're

1712
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:28,080
Speaker 4: also watching their neighbor like die alone in their house.

1713
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:31,360
Speaker 4: They're watching their ability to have access to healthcare happen.

1714
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:34,320
Speaker 4: They're watching the Trump administration talk about starting a new

1715
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:38,720
Speaker 4: war with Venezuela. They're watching the establishment Democrats continue to

1716
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:42,320
Speaker 4: like not do anything about anything. And the reason I

1717
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:45,320
Speaker 4: think this is all happening right now is I just

1718
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:47,880
Speaker 4: came along and told everybody that what they were seeing

1719
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:52,120
Speaker 4: was happening, because it's what I'm seeing. And people hate

1720
01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:55,920
Speaker 4: getting lied to. They hate getting told that like there's

1721
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:59,000
Speaker 4: a different reality happening than the one that they are witnessing.

1722
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:02,120
Speaker 4: It's like Gaza. You know, you got the Democratic Party

1723
01:33:02,200 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 4: telling people for years now like no, no, this is fine,

1724
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 4: and everybody's like, I'm watching videos of children starving to

1725
01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:12,240
Speaker 4: death and getting ripped apart by American bombs. Don't tell

1726
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:15,880
Speaker 4: me this is fine. I think you can just extrapolate

1727
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:17,960
Speaker 4: that out to the larger system, and that's where the

1728
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 4: energy is. People are angry and they are sick and

1729
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:27,200
Speaker 4: highre this, and there is an irony for me, Like

1730
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:29,599
Speaker 4: I've been saying this stuff for like the past couple

1731
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:32,400
Speaker 4: of years, and like, you know, I could say this

1732
01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 4: in a bar and somebody'd be like, eah, man, sounds wild.

1733
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:39,200
Speaker 4: But then I do it on a Senate campaign and

1734
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:41,960
Speaker 4: people are just like, yeah, absolutely, I mean this reflects

1735
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:46,880
Speaker 4: exactly what I'm seeing, and I think that, Yeah, I

1736
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:49,360
Speaker 4: think just the real, the material reality that we are

1737
01:33:49,439 --> 01:33:51,439
Speaker 4: living in is what is driving all of this.

1738
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:56,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a question here from Oh, sorry ahead,

1739
01:33:56,560 --> 01:33:58,360
Speaker 2: I was just gonna real quick. We have seen some

1740
01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:00,519
Speaker 2: public pulling. Do you have any you know, what are

1741
01:34:00,560 --> 01:34:01,640
Speaker 2: your internal polls or do you.

1742
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 4: Have We don't have it yet. I'm going to be

1743
01:34:03,439 --> 01:34:05,679
Speaker 4: entirely frank. The last two weeks I have barely slept.

1744
01:34:05,800 --> 01:34:09,679
Speaker 3: I am. I am like, You're very coherent.

1745
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:11,360
Speaker 7: So we are.

1746
01:34:12,280 --> 01:34:15,080
Speaker 4: We are, Yeah, we we are in the We are

1747
01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:18,360
Speaker 4: in the midst of doing all of that. We also

1748
01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:23,360
Speaker 4: we are in the midst of fielding a pole. We

1749
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:26,840
Speaker 4: also have again, this is something I want to kind

1750
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:28,960
Speaker 4: of reiterate. I know from the outside. This whole thing

1751
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:31,280
Speaker 4: looks like big and real. I just want to We

1752
01:34:31,400 --> 01:34:34,759
Speaker 4: are ten weeks in and I've never done this before.

1753
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:38,880
Speaker 4: So we had we essentially threw everything at the wall

1754
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:42,160
Speaker 4: for eight weeks. We built an immense amount of momentum,

1755
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:45,200
Speaker 4: We built a substantial war chest. We kind of fleshed

1756
01:34:45,240 --> 01:34:48,720
Speaker 4: things out. You know. Last two weeks we essentially have

1757
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 4: made contact with our opposition. We Uh, we had our

1758
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 4: first kind of stress test. Uh. There were people on

1759
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:57,840
Speaker 4: the campaign that frankly weren't kind of up to the task,

1760
01:34:58,320 --> 01:35:01,599
Speaker 4: and they are now gone. The bulk of the campaign

1761
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:03,120
Speaker 4: is very much still here, and I think in many

1762
01:35:03,160 --> 01:35:06,559
Speaker 4: ways this has kind of galvanized everybody. So we were

1763
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:10,920
Speaker 4: planning November is when I sink my oyster farm, I

1764
01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:12,679
Speaker 4: have to go like actually, when we get off the phone,

1765
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:16,080
Speaker 4: I'm going back to go out on the boat. So

1766
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:18,479
Speaker 4: we were planning for November to be kind of a

1767
01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:21,720
Speaker 4: slow down period where we take all the connections and

1768
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 4: the resources and the information, the visibility, and now we

1769
01:35:24,920 --> 01:35:30,040
Speaker 4: coalesce it into an actual, like structural campaign based around

1770
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:34,680
Speaker 4: movement building, based around organizational capacity. That's the project that

1771
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:39,679
Speaker 4: we are engaged in right now. So it's a yeah.

1772
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:41,680
Speaker 4: I want to reiterate because a lot of people are like,

1773
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:44,800
Speaker 4: where's your policy team. I'm like, dude, I'm driving all

1774
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,439
Speaker 4: over Maine and i haven't had five minutes to myself

1775
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 4: and we're only eight weeks in. Go ask one of

1776
01:35:50,120 --> 01:35:51,680
Speaker 4: the other candidates in this race who's been in it

1777
01:35:51,760 --> 01:35:53,760
Speaker 4: since April where his is he is? He should have

1778
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:54,559
Speaker 4: a better excuse.

1779
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:00,960
Speaker 3: Got stamp packs.

1780
01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:04,519
Speaker 7: That takes a lot of time, Crystal, So I want

1781
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:05,920
Speaker 7: we want to hit you. We've got a lot of

1782
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:07,760
Speaker 7: other audience questions, so we're gonna do some like rapid

1783
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:10,240
Speaker 7: fire ones really quick with you, Graham. But this one

1784
01:36:10,320 --> 01:36:12,720
Speaker 7: actually comes from me first. I wanted your take on

1785
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:16,800
Speaker 7: Pete Hegseth, his renaming of the department Department of War.

1786
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:20,640
Speaker 7: He routinely calls the soldiers war fighters is kind of

1787
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:22,720
Speaker 7: like his coin term. And he's made a lot of

1788
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:25,960
Speaker 7: talk about women and trans people in the military in

1789
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 7: their place, what do you mean?

1790
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:31,320
Speaker 4: Hexeth is a deeply insecure man who did a highly

1791
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:35,439
Speaker 4: unimpressive military career and wants everybody to think that he

1792
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:37,880
Speaker 4: was some kind of god of war, which he most

1793
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:40,920
Speaker 4: certainly is not. He was an infantry officer who doesn't

1794
01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:45,320
Speaker 4: even have a ranger tab so hardened me. Well, I

1795
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:48,040
Speaker 4: don't think the man deserves an ounce of respect. Now

1796
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:51,320
Speaker 4: all of us is is just masculine insecurity and it's

1797
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,519
Speaker 4: and he never should have been confirmed in that role.

1798
01:36:56,240 --> 01:36:58,640
Speaker 7: All right. So we've got a few others here. Now,

1799
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:03,040
Speaker 7: this one is h a Saga related question. Sager referred

1800
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:05,680
Speaker 7: to you as a Brooklyn leftist.

1801
01:37:07,200 --> 01:37:11,040
Speaker 3: And he shift, he shifted from hips Brooklyn leftist.

1802
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:14,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, now this is from Kate M. I'm sure this

1803
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:16,120
Speaker 7: will be asked. If not, how does Grammar respond to

1804
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:18,160
Speaker 7: Sager's characterization of him as being no different than a

1805
01:37:18,200 --> 01:37:19,800
Speaker 7: Brooklyn left Well.

1806
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:27,760
Speaker 4: I've never lived in Brooklyn, and like, and my politics

1807
01:37:28,439 --> 01:37:32,759
Speaker 4: really developed more coherently since I moved back to small

1808
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:36,760
Speaker 4: town Maine. So uh if I mean, I guess yeah,

1809
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:40,599
Speaker 4: I don't know. Like h seems like an insane thing

1810
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 4: to call me.

1811
01:37:41,360 --> 01:37:44,320
Speaker 3: But are you still pro gun Graham?

1812
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:48,240
Speaker 8: Because we have this question from Hunter who says he's

1813
01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 8: hunter Shade, says Mayner. Here, my question for Graham is

1814
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:53,000
Speaker 8: about a Second Amendment support. Would you vote along party

1815
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,040
Speaker 8: lines on issues of gun controllers? Is something you feel

1816
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 8: strongly enough about to buck the party trendon what is

1817
01:37:56,960 --> 01:37:59,800
Speaker 8: your position generally on civilian gun ownership? Also, could you

1818
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:02,240
Speaker 8: get a little background your asside to the quote militia

1819
01:38:02,240 --> 01:38:04,639
Speaker 8: training accusations I've seen in the news. I'm assuming that's

1820
01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:09,360
Speaker 8: the Socialist Rifle Association picture that's been going around.

1821
01:38:09,800 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 5: What do you make I believe the last paragraph's good too, actually,

1822
01:38:13,120 --> 01:38:14,040
Speaker 5: of that one, do you have that?

1823
01:38:15,439 --> 01:38:15,599
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1824
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:17,599
Speaker 7: It says I've lived. It says I've lived in Maine

1825
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:19,679
Speaker 7: my whole life and know the gun culture is stronger

1826
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:21,519
Speaker 7: than most New England states. But do you think your

1827
01:38:21,560 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 7: position on firearm ownership will help or hinder your endeavors

1828
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:26,280
Speaker 7: in the state, given most of the population lives in

1829
01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:28,559
Speaker 7: York and Cumberland counties, which do not have the same

1830
01:38:28,640 --> 01:38:34,519
Speaker 7: gun culture as say, Aroosted County. As this is our

1831
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:38,800
Speaker 7: Brooklyn leftlist, Sir, I'm literally in Borokland right now, and

1832
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:41,599
Speaker 7: I don't claim you. I don't claim you here, Okay.

1833
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 4: Firearms have been a entrenched part of my life since

1834
01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:50,160
Speaker 4: I was a kid. I grew up in Romaine. I

1835
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:53,200
Speaker 4: grew up hunting, I grew up shooting. I learned how

1836
01:38:53,240 --> 01:38:57,240
Speaker 4: to shoot at four h I joined Marine Corps, I

1837
01:38:57,320 --> 01:39:00,680
Speaker 4: joined the infantry. Yeah, I mean obviously, I and then

1838
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:03,599
Speaker 4: after that, I've been a firearms instructor. I still am

1839
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:06,679
Speaker 4: a firearms instructor, and I'm a competitive I do competitive

1840
01:39:06,680 --> 01:39:11,720
Speaker 4: pistol shooting. Is it's my hobby. I firearms remained to

1841
01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 4: be fairly I would say, intrinsic part of my life.

1842
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:19,759
Speaker 4: And that's how it is for a lot of people

1843
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:26,000
Speaker 4: in rural Maine. I come from a firearms owning tradition

1844
01:39:26,120 --> 01:39:32,000
Speaker 4: that is based around competency and responsibility and safety. I

1845
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:34,080
Speaker 4: got it. I get a chuckle out of the whole

1846
01:39:34,640 --> 01:39:39,360
Speaker 4: me training paramilitary's thing. In twenty I don't know if

1847
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:42,760
Speaker 4: anybody remembers, but twenty twenty COVID happened, and a whole

1848
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:44,960
Speaker 4: bunch of people bought a bunch of guns, people who

1849
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:49,600
Speaker 4: had never owned them. For all these like left wingers, progressives, democrats,

1850
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:51,679
Speaker 4: everybody's like the skull of the world is falling apart.

1851
01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:57,120
Speaker 4: LGBT someone who has spent a long time working with

1852
01:39:57,200 --> 01:40:00,519
Speaker 4: firearms professionally, I saw a bunch of people who, frankly,

1853
01:40:00,520 --> 01:40:02,880
Speaker 4: I was like, you should not own a gun. And

1854
01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:05,439
Speaker 4: if you're going to own a gun, you need to

1855
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:08,680
Speaker 4: understand how to own a gun you need, and so

1856
01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:11,920
Speaker 4: I taught and like, there are a lot of people,

1857
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:15,479
Speaker 4: I would say, on the left or progressive spaces who

1858
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:20,479
Speaker 4: see gun culture as as really scary, Like they don't

1859
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:22,439
Speaker 4: want to go to gun shops, they don't want to

1860
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:24,720
Speaker 4: hang out with people that usually teach firearms. And so

1861
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:32,040
Speaker 4: I taught essentially an introduction to firearms course for a

1862
01:40:32,120 --> 01:40:35,040
Speaker 4: bunch of first time gun owners, some of which had

1863
01:40:35,120 --> 01:40:39,200
Speaker 4: come through the SRA, which is I mean, it's also funny.

1864
01:40:39,439 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 4: The SRA was like an online meme that turned meet

1865
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:46,280
Speaker 4: ups people like it's like the left wing NRA. I'm like,

1866
01:40:46,360 --> 01:40:50,759
Speaker 4: I mean, okay, not in my experience, it was mostly

1867
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:53,519
Speaker 4: just a bunch of people posting at discord servers. But like,

1868
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:59,479
Speaker 4: whatever I would, I would do that again. I mean,

1869
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:02,800
Speaker 4: I if people, I'm a firm. Guns are tools, and

1870
01:41:02,840 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 4: they're incredibly dangerous, and they are not to be viewed

1871
01:41:06,439 --> 01:41:08,960
Speaker 4: as toys. They are not to be viewed as extensions

1872
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:12,320
Speaker 4: of like your masculinity. They're not gonna they're not going

1873
01:41:12,400 --> 01:41:15,040
Speaker 4: to make you inherently safe. In fact, having them makes

1874
01:41:15,120 --> 01:41:18,240
Speaker 4: you far less safe. Having a gun in your house

1875
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:22,600
Speaker 4: increases the likelihood of gun violence in your house. Essentially exponentially,

1876
01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:26,559
Speaker 4: because if it wasn't there, it wouldn't happen. So I'm

1877
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:28,760
Speaker 4: a firm believer that if people in a country that

1878
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:31,960
Speaker 4: is a washing guns like ours, if you are going

1879
01:41:32,000 --> 01:41:35,120
Speaker 4: to be around firearms in any way, you need to

1880
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:39,000
Speaker 4: get competent professional training in how to use them. And

1881
01:41:39,080 --> 01:41:42,960
Speaker 4: that was what I was trying to do, and I

1882
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:45,519
Speaker 4: will not walk that back. I think teaching people how

1883
01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:49,120
Speaker 4: to safely handle firearms is a good thing.

1884
01:41:51,160 --> 01:41:51,719
Speaker 6: That's awesome.

1885
01:41:52,080 --> 01:41:54,960
Speaker 7: Speaking of discord and old post, this is from Sarona

1886
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:57,360
Speaker 7: five to five four for Graham. One of the posts

1887
01:41:57,360 --> 01:42:01,800
Speaker 7: that came out from the to yourself as a communist?

1888
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:04,160
Speaker 7: My question as a communist myself is do you still

1889
01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:05,439
Speaker 7: consider yourself a communist?

1890
01:42:05,439 --> 01:42:07,840
Speaker 4: And if not, we no. And I'll be honest, I've

1891
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:10,479
Speaker 4: never considered myself a communist. Arguing with people on the

1892
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:13,400
Speaker 4: internet and calling when self a communist to piss them

1893
01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:17,560
Speaker 4: off is something I used to do. Uh copy that

1894
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:21,519
Speaker 4: copy that I mean there isn't the of course, I'm

1895
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:24,920
Speaker 4: I'm advocating for universal health care and and like the

1896
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:28,760
Speaker 4: ability of working people to organize and build unions. Of course,

1897
01:42:28,840 --> 01:42:31,600
Speaker 4: somebody's gonna call me a communist, So I used to

1898
01:42:31,720 --> 01:42:33,880
Speaker 4: just make jokes about this stuff long before. I mean,

1899
01:42:33,960 --> 01:42:36,040
Speaker 4: let's yeah, if you read the threads, by the way,

1900
01:42:36,120 --> 01:42:38,479
Speaker 4: it's fairly obvious I'm being a sarcastic dude.

1901
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:42,519
Speaker 7: But whatever, Yeah, Graham, Graham, I don't want you to

1902
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:45,000
Speaker 7: read my old post I've deleted, so I'll leave it

1903
01:42:45,080 --> 01:42:49,200
Speaker 7: there on that one. This one comes from Faras Abouzaid. Graham,

1904
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:51,200
Speaker 7: you said you wouldn't support Chuck Schumer for a Democratic

1905
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:53,240
Speaker 7: leader of the Senate. Is there anyone you would endorse?

1906
01:42:53,320 --> 01:42:55,640
Speaker 7: More broadly, what current Senators do you admire, respect or

1907
01:42:55,640 --> 01:42:57,759
Speaker 7: see yourself working closely with should you be elected.

1908
01:42:57,840 --> 01:42:59,960
Speaker 4: I honestly, I like I've thought about this. I don't

1909
01:43:00,280 --> 01:43:02,719
Speaker 4: know who I would want to push for leadership because

1910
01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:05,920
Speaker 4: it's going to depend on kind of the general feeling.

1911
01:43:07,080 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 4: I will say I have an immense amount of respect

1912
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:14,479
Speaker 4: for Chris van Holland. I think he understands his role

1913
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:16,560
Speaker 4: in the Senate in ways that I look up to,

1914
01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:19,759
Speaker 4: which is that you have structural power, but you also

1915
01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:22,960
Speaker 4: have secondary power. I think Bernie understands this too, and

1916
01:43:23,080 --> 01:43:26,400
Speaker 4: Elizabeth Warren as well, Like there is a secondary power,

1917
01:43:26,439 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 4: there is the power that comes from you being visible

1918
01:43:29,040 --> 01:43:31,880
Speaker 4: as a senator, Like when Chris van Holland went down

1919
01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:34,760
Speaker 4: to El Salvador to interview kil Mar Albriga Garcia. He

1920
01:43:34,880 --> 01:43:38,160
Speaker 4: got to do that because he's a US senator. If

1921
01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:40,479
Speaker 4: he was anybody else, he would not have been able

1922
01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:42,640
Speaker 4: to do that and bring visibility onto that. And I

1923
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:47,360
Speaker 4: think he understands his role in the Senate in a

1924
01:43:47,400 --> 01:43:50,840
Speaker 4: way that I would like to see more senators understand it,

1925
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:54,679
Speaker 4: not necessarily like there's a you have to bring almost

1926
01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:57,679
Speaker 4: an element of activism to it as well if you're

1927
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:00,000
Speaker 4: going to utilize the role in all of its power

1928
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 4: hour and so I I think that that's so I have.

1929
01:44:03,640 --> 01:44:05,800
Speaker 4: I have a mets amount of respect for him, men's

1930
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:10,400
Speaker 4: amount of respect for for Senator Warren for I mean,

1931
01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:14,519
Speaker 4: Senator Martin Heinrich has been a real real cheerleader for

1932
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:18,400
Speaker 4: me and throughout this whole thing, incredibly supportive. There is

1933
01:44:18,479 --> 01:44:22,040
Speaker 4: a yeah, I mean, I I could just keep going

1934
01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:27,639
Speaker 4: down the list, ed Markey, Uh, Peter Welch like there's

1935
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:32,640
Speaker 4: a but you guys, and yeah, what.

1936
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:38,960
Speaker 2: Van Holland's been important on God also using that visibility.

1937
01:44:40,240 --> 01:44:41,960
Speaker 4: He could go do what he did if he was

1938
01:44:42,120 --> 01:44:44,680
Speaker 4: not a US senator. Nobody would have cared if he

1939
01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:48,360
Speaker 4: went and walked the line, but you know he's a senator,

1940
01:44:48,439 --> 01:44:51,559
Speaker 4: so they so they have to mm hmm.

1941
01:44:51,800 --> 01:44:55,240
Speaker 7: Okay, our last and most important question from the A

1942
01:44:55,400 --> 01:45:00,360
Speaker 7: m A. This is from sciatica. Man was right? Yeah?

1943
01:45:01,680 --> 01:45:04,639
Speaker 7: Was Ryan Grimm a good bartender tipper?

1944
01:45:06,680 --> 01:45:06,960
Speaker 4: Okay?

1945
01:45:07,120 --> 01:45:09,280
Speaker 6: Oh you actually remember serving Ryan? This is great.

1946
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:16,040
Speaker 4: We have we have incredible we have over our mutual

1947
01:45:16,160 --> 01:45:16,960
Speaker 4: tune in time.

1948
01:45:17,320 --> 01:45:19,639
Speaker 6: So is the best.

1949
01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:20,599
Speaker 5: It's a great bar.

1950
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:23,960
Speaker 2: Well, Ryan and I are also we're chest Peak Bay people,

1951
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:26,160
Speaker 2: so we have some connection to the mollusk.

1952
01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:29,800
Speaker 4: The pro guys would have me someday. I want to

1953
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:32,479
Speaker 4: come back on and just talk about aquaculture. But it's

1954
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:32,920
Speaker 4: a whole one.

1955
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:37,120
Speaker 6: We would love song an oyster bar at his wedding

1956
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:41,120
Speaker 6: and the oysterman sniped at me one time and it's

1957
01:45:41,240 --> 01:45:42,600
Speaker 6: it's soured me on oyster. No.

1958
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:47,280
Speaker 4: Well hopefully, Well maybe next year when the weather turns,

1959
01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:49,040
Speaker 4: you should come up. I'll take you out on the

1960
01:45:49,080 --> 01:45:52,840
Speaker 4: oyster farm and we can rebuild some trust with the

1961
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:54,240
Speaker 4: bivalve molars community.

1962
01:45:54,640 --> 01:45:56,440
Speaker 7: So that's awesome.

1963
01:45:57,000 --> 01:45:58,400
Speaker 6: That would be the best breaking points ever.

1964
01:45:59,160 --> 01:46:00,680
Speaker 7: Awesome. Go uh.

1965
01:46:01,080 --> 01:46:04,400
Speaker 5: Maryland has done a great job funding aquaculture to clean

1966
01:46:04,479 --> 01:46:06,960
Speaker 5: up the Chesapeake Bay, but could use federal health for sure.

1967
01:46:07,439 --> 01:46:10,880
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm a firm believer frankly that I'm that

1968
01:46:11,160 --> 01:46:17,640
Speaker 4: that using aquaculture projects as as environmental rehab projects is

1969
01:46:18,200 --> 01:46:21,639
Speaker 4: highly underutilized. There's a lot of potential there. But we also,

1970
01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:23,840
Speaker 4: frankly that we don't have like a big lobbying wing,

1971
01:46:24,240 --> 01:46:25,320
Speaker 4: so we don't get anything.

1972
01:46:27,320 --> 01:46:31,560
Speaker 5: Now, you were on David Sirota's podcast last night, and

1973
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:33,400
Speaker 5: people should go and watch that one. That was I

1974
01:46:33,439 --> 01:46:35,680
Speaker 5: think it was instructive and you were asked this, but

1975
01:46:35,720 --> 01:46:37,880
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask again for our for audio, our

1976
01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:39,960
Speaker 5: audience as well, because this is something that people are

1977
01:46:40,040 --> 01:46:42,679
Speaker 5: very curious about. One of the more disturbing Reddit posts

1978
01:46:42,680 --> 01:46:46,760
Speaker 5: that people have circulated, UH talks about it's a question

1979
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:50,080
Speaker 5: if you could fight in previous wars, you know what

1980
01:46:50,439 --> 01:46:52,800
Speaker 5: what would you do? And you talk about kind of

1981
01:46:52,880 --> 01:47:00,639
Speaker 5: the the the joy almost of combat, and I think,

1982
01:47:01,160 --> 01:47:04,120
Speaker 5: so can you talk about like how you got into

1983
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:09,040
Speaker 5: a mindset where you believed that and whether you still

1984
01:47:09,120 --> 01:47:10,920
Speaker 5: share that mindset, whether you're in touch with it, and

1985
01:47:11,520 --> 01:47:14,880
Speaker 5: you know how that relates to your current posture towards

1986
01:47:15,360 --> 01:47:19,040
Speaker 5: American imperialism and wars in general, because we're talking about,

1987
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:20,840
Speaker 5: you know, people getting killed.

1988
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:26,639
Speaker 4: I viewed myself for a long time as a professional soldier.

1989
01:47:27,560 --> 01:47:31,640
Speaker 4: It was it was my identity. I was very I

1990
01:47:31,760 --> 01:47:33,000
Speaker 4: was a very competent soldier.

1991
01:47:34,360 --> 01:47:34,680
Speaker 2: I was.

1992
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:39,599
Speaker 4: I saw a fairly significant amount of combat. I also

1993
01:47:39,720 --> 01:47:41,000
Speaker 4: and I mean it's and I have to this is

1994
01:47:41,000 --> 01:47:43,280
Speaker 4: a weird that I'm I still work on. I'm going

1995
01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:45,600
Speaker 4: to work on this till I die. I think I

1996
01:47:45,760 --> 01:47:48,400
Speaker 4: still have these. I have a very complicated relationship with

1997
01:47:48,520 --> 01:47:52,479
Speaker 4: my time in combat because I I think it was

1998
01:47:52,560 --> 01:47:55,719
Speaker 4: all for nothing. I think the horror and the violence

1999
01:47:55,760 --> 01:47:59,840
Speaker 4: that I took part in was completely pointless. And yet

2000
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:02,360
Speaker 4: I still have this element of me that when I

2001
01:48:02,560 --> 01:48:08,520
Speaker 4: was engaging in it, I found infantry combat very exhilarating.

2002
01:48:09,800 --> 01:48:16,040
Speaker 4: I found infantry combat. I found my proficiency in being

2003
01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:19,559
Speaker 4: an effective soldier in combat as something that I viewed.

2004
01:48:19,720 --> 01:48:22,160
Speaker 4: I was very proud of it, and I in some

2005
01:48:22,360 --> 01:48:25,320
Speaker 4: ways enjoyed it. But I want to make it clear people,

2006
01:48:25,479 --> 01:48:29,920
Speaker 4: I think I'd never enjoyed I never enjoyed or relished

2007
01:48:29,960 --> 01:48:32,439
Speaker 4: in killing ever.

2008
01:48:35,080 --> 01:48:35,880
Speaker 7: But it was more the.

2009
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:41,479
Speaker 4: More like the professional challenge of other people are trying

2010
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:44,800
Speaker 4: to kill you, and then you have to make decisions

2011
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:48,320
Speaker 4: and be effective in your weapons systems, be effective in

2012
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:51,000
Speaker 4: your leadership in order to survive, and then like win

2013
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:56,000
Speaker 4: And that was how I always viewed it. And the

2014
01:48:56,080 --> 01:49:01,640
Speaker 4: thing that I connect with now is that when I

2015
01:49:01,720 --> 01:49:05,960
Speaker 4: look back through history, I see a lot of people

2016
01:49:06,640 --> 01:49:13,760
Speaker 4: who like me, engaged in wars of imperialism, wars of colonialism,

2017
01:49:15,080 --> 01:49:20,639
Speaker 4: who that experience, in many way shapes and form, turned

2018
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:25,200
Speaker 4: them into dedicated opponents to it. One of the reasons

2019
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:28,680
Speaker 4: I am in such opposition to this stuff now, I

2020
01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:32,439
Speaker 4: know how easy it is, as a young person who

2021
01:49:32,640 --> 01:49:35,160
Speaker 4: wants to go do this kind of thing for whatever reason,

2022
01:49:35,400 --> 01:49:37,000
Speaker 4: how easy it is to be taken in by it.

2023
01:49:38,840 --> 01:49:42,280
Speaker 4: I mean, And that's why we shouldn't do it, because

2024
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:46,479
Speaker 4: there will always be young men and women who in

2025
01:49:46,640 --> 01:49:49,200
Speaker 4: their youth are going to be taken into being part

2026
01:49:49,240 --> 01:49:53,759
Speaker 4: of something bigger, finding finding meaning in struggle and suffering

2027
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:55,880
Speaker 4: and all that stuff. And if that's going to happen,

2028
01:49:57,040 --> 01:50:00,920
Speaker 4: that should never be taken advantage of by by a

2029
01:50:00,960 --> 01:50:04,479
Speaker 4: political apparatus, which is exactly what happened. It's what happened

2030
01:50:04,479 --> 01:50:08,839
Speaker 4: to me, and I struggle with it. I'm gonna struggle

2031
01:50:08,840 --> 01:50:11,360
Speaker 4: with this until the day I die. I don't think

2032
01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:14,880
Speaker 4: there's an answer in here, because I will always I

2033
01:50:14,960 --> 01:50:18,040
Speaker 4: will always find some connection and some I don't know,

2034
01:50:18,200 --> 01:50:24,400
Speaker 4: feelings of self worth in like how good of a

2035
01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:28,720
Speaker 4: soldier I was. But I also think it was all

2036
01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:33,200
Speaker 4: pointless and it's yeah, and I'm doing better with it now.

2037
01:50:33,240 --> 01:50:34,960
Speaker 4: I mean, for a number of years there, I mean

2038
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:37,240
Speaker 4: it sent me into a dark place because I couldn't

2039
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:39,760
Speaker 4: square the two and I still can't square them. But

2040
01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:46,439
Speaker 4: I think frankly, developing a more structural critique has allowed

2041
01:50:46,520 --> 01:50:48,680
Speaker 4: me some like I'm like, oh, yeah, right, I did

2042
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:50,760
Speaker 4: this for the service of something I was not in

2043
01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:54,439
Speaker 4: charge of, and and that kind of I'm not trying

2044
01:50:54,479 --> 01:50:56,880
Speaker 4: to dip myself off the hook. It's just that there

2045
01:50:57,000 --> 01:50:58,640
Speaker 4: is a way of describing it where I don't have

2046
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:01,320
Speaker 4: to feel like I don't. I no longer require it

2047
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:03,680
Speaker 4: to have meant anything. It doesn't mean like I know,

2048
01:51:03,960 --> 01:51:05,479
Speaker 4: it no longer has to have value to me. I

2049
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:07,080
Speaker 4: think it was valueless, and I'm okay with that.

2050
01:51:09,320 --> 01:51:12,640
Speaker 5: One of the generals who participated in a lot of

2051
01:51:12,680 --> 01:51:15,080
Speaker 5: those small wars that you mentioned was Smith Butler.

2052
01:51:15,280 --> 01:51:16,519
Speaker 4: One of my personal heroes.

2053
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:20,439
Speaker 5: Surprisingly yes, So have you read War as a racket?

2054
01:51:20,479 --> 01:51:20,519
Speaker 8: What?

2055
01:51:20,840 --> 01:51:22,000
Speaker 5: What was your reaction to it?

2056
01:51:23,080 --> 01:51:24,600
Speaker 4: Spedley Butler has been a hero of mine for a

2057
01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:28,160
Speaker 4: long time, and you know his his support for the

2058
01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:33,200
Speaker 4: Bonus Army. His time is obviously his time ratting out

2059
01:51:33,240 --> 01:51:36,400
Speaker 4: the business plot. I mean, I'm a big, big Smedley

2060
01:51:36,400 --> 01:51:39,800
Speaker 4: Butler fan. But Smedley Butler got there because of his

2061
01:51:39,960 --> 01:51:43,040
Speaker 4: combat record. You know, it's it's uh, I think it is.

2062
01:51:43,560 --> 01:51:44,280
Speaker 4: I don't want to.

2063
01:51:46,600 --> 01:51:52,240
Speaker 5: That's interesting, yeah, right Smith, Yeah, he participated in some

2064
01:51:53,120 --> 01:51:54,320
Speaker 5: horrifying war crimes.

2065
01:51:54,840 --> 01:51:57,519
Speaker 4: Everybody should go read Gangs to the Capitalism by Jonathan Katz,

2066
01:51:57,560 --> 01:51:58,080
Speaker 4: a great book.

2067
01:51:58,960 --> 01:52:01,880
Speaker 6: M hmm, Ryan is a good podcast on Smudley Butler

2068
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:02,760
Speaker 6: buck from I was.

2069
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:07,120
Speaker 5: With actually the author of Gangsters of great book Cats.

2070
01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:11,160
Speaker 7: That's right, all right, Well, on that note, I think

2071
01:52:11,680 --> 01:52:14,240
Speaker 7: we're all set. Graham. Thank you for giving us so

2072
01:52:14,360 --> 01:52:16,679
Speaker 7: much of your time today and being open to answering

2073
01:52:16,720 --> 01:52:20,360
Speaker 7: all of our questions, and we'll continue to follow your race.

2074
01:52:20,840 --> 01:52:23,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, happy Halloween, and you know we'll just let you

2075
01:52:23,439 --> 01:52:26,000
Speaker 2: get back to your very quiet ideal.

2076
01:52:26,080 --> 01:52:29,960
Speaker 4: It actually today, today and tomorrow I get to go

2077
01:52:30,040 --> 01:52:32,320
Speaker 4: out on the on my boat, so things get pretty

2078
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:33,000
Speaker 4: nice for a bit.

2079
01:52:33,640 --> 01:52:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, nice, awesome, all right, Graham, great connecting with you.

2080
01:52:37,439 --> 01:52:39,120
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for answering our questions.

2081
01:52:39,439 --> 01:52:40,800
Speaker 6: Thank you seriously appreciate it.

2082
01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:47,519
Speaker 7: All right, all right, folks, that's that. Any any reactions

2083
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:49,240
Speaker 7: before we suplay? I know, christ you got to run

2084
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 7: almost almost so we had more time.

2085
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:58,480
Speaker 5: There's because there's so like American politics pushes the conversation

2086
01:52:58,840 --> 01:53:05,120
Speaker 5: constantly away from material conditions, and and I hate when

2087
01:53:05,400 --> 01:53:08,600
Speaker 5: we even participate in it. But people really want to

2088
01:53:08,640 --> 01:53:11,640
Speaker 5: know and I want to know what his response is

2089
01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:15,200
Speaker 5: on a lot of these personal questions. But we spend

2090
01:53:15,240 --> 01:53:18,920
Speaker 5: so much time talking about the person we don't get

2091
01:53:19,040 --> 01:53:24,040
Speaker 5: enough time to talk about the policy. And I guess

2092
01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:26,519
Speaker 5: we understand where he is on the policy spectrum, so

2093
01:53:26,720 --> 01:53:30,599
Speaker 5: maybe that's less important to suss out, but I don't. Yeah,

2094
01:53:31,200 --> 01:53:33,519
Speaker 5: that's just a general observation about the state.

2095
01:53:34,680 --> 01:53:37,439
Speaker 8: And I often think it's it's helpful to have like good,

2096
01:53:37,680 --> 01:53:42,160
Speaker 8: decent personal conversations as your frame of reference for what's

2097
01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:45,200
Speaker 8: decisions somebody will make in a policy sense going forward,

2098
01:53:45,280 --> 01:53:47,280
Speaker 8: because a lot of times people will say, well, if

2099
01:53:47,320 --> 01:53:49,080
Speaker 8: that bill came to my desk, I do this, this

2100
01:53:49,200 --> 01:53:50,879
Speaker 8: and that, and then they have a horde of lobbyists

2101
01:53:50,920 --> 01:53:54,920
Speaker 8: descending on them and turns out their John Fetterman. So yeah,

2102
01:53:55,240 --> 01:53:57,519
Speaker 8: I think sometimes it's when you're not having like a

2103
01:53:57,840 --> 01:54:00,639
Speaker 8: gotcha back and forth, you actually get a good sense

2104
01:54:00,680 --> 01:54:01,800
Speaker 8: of what the person would be like in.

2105
01:54:02,360 --> 01:54:04,680
Speaker 3: In Congress the Sun, Yeah, I agree with that.

2106
01:54:04,840 --> 01:54:08,560
Speaker 2: I'm just very struck by, you know, the similarities I

2107
01:54:08,640 --> 01:54:12,240
Speaker 2: see between him between Richard O Jatta, between Anthony Aguilar.

2108
01:54:12,760 --> 01:54:15,120
Speaker 2: You know, I mean I think about Anthony, like had

2109
01:54:15,200 --> 01:54:18,080
Speaker 2: just retired, and then he's like gets similar thing, like

2110
01:54:18,160 --> 01:54:20,040
Speaker 2: somebody hits him up on Facebook, like hey, you want

2111
01:54:20,080 --> 01:54:23,800
Speaker 2: to go like give out food in Gaza, And you

2112
01:54:23,880 --> 01:54:26,240
Speaker 2: know he's at the time, he's just settling back into

2113
01:54:26,280 --> 01:54:28,400
Speaker 2: civilian life and it's like, Okay, this is pretty good

2114
01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:30,160
Speaker 2: pay check and seems like I'd be doing some good

2115
01:54:30,600 --> 01:54:32,400
Speaker 2: and just goes over. And that's how you end up

2116
01:54:32,920 --> 01:54:36,680
Speaker 2: as this person who clearly is a very moral and courageous,

2117
01:54:37,120 --> 01:54:41,400
Speaker 2: like both physically and like ideologically courageous person going and

2118
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:44,320
Speaker 2: working for this like monstrosity of an organization in the

2119
01:54:44,360 --> 01:54:48,520
Speaker 2: Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. So you know, I think if you've

2120
01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:52,120
Speaker 2: if you've known people who have not had the desk

2121
01:54:52,200 --> 01:54:54,240
Speaker 2: jobs like a JD Vance or you know, a Pee

2122
01:54:54,240 --> 01:54:57,600
Speaker 2: booda Jed orub, but who were in the shit right,

2123
01:54:57,800 --> 01:55:01,280
Speaker 2: who were doing the ugliest parts of war, who were

2124
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:05,720
Speaker 2: used as pawns in these you know, horrifying chess games

2125
01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:08,560
Speaker 2: that our country has been playing around the world with

2126
01:55:08,720 --> 01:55:12,440
Speaker 2: catastrophic outcomes. I think you're gonna his story is going

2127
01:55:12,520 --> 01:55:14,720
Speaker 2: to actually make a lot of sense to you, because

2128
01:55:14,720 --> 01:55:16,320
Speaker 2: there are a lot of parallels with the guys that

2129
01:55:16,400 --> 01:55:18,680
Speaker 2: I've known who have been in similar situations.

2130
01:55:19,240 --> 01:55:20,720
Speaker 8: I don't think Dems know what they have on their

2131
01:55:20,720 --> 01:55:23,240
Speaker 8: hands with Dan Osburn and Graham Plattner. I don't think

2132
01:55:23,280 --> 01:55:25,360
Speaker 8: Republicans know what Dems have on their hands with Dan

2133
01:55:25,440 --> 01:55:27,880
Speaker 8: Osbourne and Graham Plattner. And I know Dan's running as

2134
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:31,560
Speaker 8: an independent, but you just talked to Graham and you

2135
01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:34,120
Speaker 8: realize he has this fluency, Like when Griffin asked him

2136
01:55:34,120 --> 01:55:37,600
Speaker 8: about people getting worried about being fettermaned, he answered that

2137
01:55:37,680 --> 01:55:40,280
Speaker 8: without asking what do you mean fettermund which just about

2138
01:55:40,320 --> 01:55:43,560
Speaker 8: any other senatorial candidate would be like, I explain and

2139
01:55:43,640 --> 01:55:45,000
Speaker 8: if you explain it, they might get it. But he

2140
01:55:45,160 --> 01:55:48,400
Speaker 8: just has this fluency and speaks like a regular person

2141
01:55:48,720 --> 01:55:52,640
Speaker 8: and that's what you in this media environment desperately need.

2142
01:55:52,760 --> 01:55:54,839
Speaker 8: And on top of that, he has this crazy background

2143
01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:58,040
Speaker 8: where that he's perfectly open and honest about. He's just

2144
01:55:58,080 --> 01:56:01,560
Speaker 8: sort of like sorry, but like the perfect podcast era

2145
01:56:02,720 --> 01:56:08,720
Speaker 8: candidate of this background to explain, you know what I mean,

2146
01:56:08,760 --> 01:56:10,880
Speaker 8: and he's open about it. So like all of the

2147
01:56:10,920 --> 01:56:13,760
Speaker 8: background that the consultants think is going to destroy him

2148
01:56:14,120 --> 01:56:16,240
Speaker 8: ends up being something that it's an opportunity for him

2149
01:56:16,280 --> 01:56:19,000
Speaker 8: to have normal conversations about and look like a dimensional

2150
01:56:19,080 --> 01:56:22,160
Speaker 8: human being. And I don't think people understand in DC

2151
01:56:22,760 --> 01:56:25,560
Speaker 8: that actually is effective now in a way that it's

2152
01:56:25,600 --> 01:56:27,080
Speaker 8: it's not that he's going to have problems if he

2153
01:56:27,120 --> 01:56:29,000
Speaker 8: goes up against Susan Collins. Of course some of that

2154
01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:31,600
Speaker 8: stuff will be a problem, but it also gives him

2155
01:56:31,600 --> 01:56:33,960
Speaker 8: this opportunity to sit down and have long form conversations

2156
01:56:34,000 --> 01:56:37,040
Speaker 8: that someone up in Maine is going to watch and

2157
01:56:37,200 --> 01:56:39,840
Speaker 8: it's like, oh, actually, this guy isn't the scary person

2158
01:56:40,360 --> 01:56:41,240
Speaker 8: the character.

2159
01:56:42,640 --> 01:56:45,720
Speaker 2: Guys, I'm gonna sorry, I'm gonna jell yeah, but I'll see,

2160
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:46,080
Speaker 2: I'll see.

2161
01:56:48,320 --> 01:56:48,920
Speaker 3: Mween.

2162
01:56:49,880 --> 01:56:52,160
Speaker 5: I have one more question for Gaylor. Griffin. Emily are

2163
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:57,840
Speaker 5: like one of the fascinating under discussed or almost undiscussed

2164
01:56:57,840 --> 01:57:01,240
Speaker 5: elements of the race. Is this there's this dynamic where

2165
01:57:01,240 --> 01:57:03,400
Speaker 5: people say, well, maybe Graham is actually too far left,

2166
01:57:04,360 --> 01:57:09,240
Speaker 5: you know for a swing state like Maine. That does

2167
01:57:09,360 --> 01:57:13,000
Speaker 5: not factor in that. Janet Mills launched her campaign on

2168
01:57:13,680 --> 01:57:18,760
Speaker 5: and is running her campaign on, the least popular issue

2169
01:57:19,400 --> 01:57:22,160
Speaker 5: that Democrats currently have, which is, you know, trans athletes

2170
01:57:22,200 --> 01:57:26,760
Speaker 5: and sports. Her she launched her campaign on what was

2171
01:57:26,800 --> 01:57:28,600
Speaker 5: her slogan, I'll see you in court, like the fact

2172
01:57:28,600 --> 01:57:32,000
Speaker 5: that she fought Trump over trans question of the trans

2173
01:57:32,080 --> 01:57:35,840
Speaker 5: athlete question. So, on the one hand, you have people

2174
01:57:35,920 --> 01:57:39,480
Speaker 5: saying Graham's too far left. But if just objectively speaking,

2175
01:57:39,480 --> 01:57:41,560
Speaker 5: if the thing you're concerned about is that somebody has

2176
01:57:41,600 --> 01:57:45,760
Speaker 5: an out of the kind of you know, way out

2177
01:57:45,800 --> 01:57:49,920
Speaker 5: their position on an A twenty issue like Mills is

2178
01:57:49,960 --> 01:57:53,080
Speaker 5: actually ironically, even though she's centrist coded and centrist on

2179
01:57:53,120 --> 01:57:55,880
Speaker 5: everything else, and it's certainly a corporate centrist on the

2180
01:57:55,960 --> 01:58:00,280
Speaker 5: thing that's eighty twenty, she's out. She's out there. Well

2181
01:58:00,800 --> 01:58:02,800
Speaker 5: then what so the question that is, like what do

2182
01:58:02,840 --> 01:58:05,480
Speaker 5: you think of Graham's response on that from the right,

2183
01:58:05,600 --> 01:58:09,240
Speaker 5: Like how will the right I hear what he said

2184
01:58:09,280 --> 01:58:12,000
Speaker 5: about both immigration and the transports question.

2185
01:58:12,680 --> 01:58:13,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I.

2186
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:15,920
Speaker 8: Think if he's up against Susan Collins, that'll be interesting.

2187
01:58:16,560 --> 01:58:17,440
Speaker 8: Against Janet Mills.

2188
01:58:17,480 --> 01:58:22,800
Speaker 6: I mean this is for him. It gives them a

2189
01:58:22,880 --> 01:58:24,840
Speaker 6: great like when Bernie explains that.

2190
01:58:24,960 --> 01:58:28,560
Speaker 8: Often these identity issues are used as a shield by

2191
01:58:28,800 --> 01:58:31,520
Speaker 8: corporate elites like Janet Mills so that they don't have

2192
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:33,920
Speaker 8: to talk. Janet Mills is like the perfect example of that.

2193
01:58:34,720 --> 01:58:40,080
Speaker 8: What you're talking at nauseum about this particular issue, even

2194
01:58:40,120 --> 01:58:42,200
Speaker 8: though eighty twenty in Maine people.

2195
01:58:42,040 --> 01:58:47,240
Speaker 6: Are like just stop, and you know, just like it. Stop.

2196
01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:51,760
Speaker 8: Yet she's talking and taking the unpopular position because she

2197
01:58:52,120 --> 01:58:54,600
Speaker 8: is still stuck in twenty twenty when she believes that

2198
01:58:54,760 --> 01:58:58,080
Speaker 8: signaling on the cultural issues is actually how you buy

2199
01:58:58,200 --> 01:59:01,320
Speaker 8: the good will and earn the good will of Democratic

2200
01:59:01,440 --> 01:59:04,800
Speaker 8: primary voters, and is not the case anymore when you're

2201
01:59:04,840 --> 01:59:06,800
Speaker 8: in a head to head with somebody who has the

2202
01:59:07,160 --> 01:59:10,320
Speaker 8: burning line. So I obviously completely disagree with what Graham

2203
01:59:10,360 --> 01:59:13,440
Speaker 8: said because I think the Obama administration nationalized the issue

2204
01:59:13,480 --> 01:59:16,280
Speaker 8: by using the Education Department to have Dear Colleague letters

2205
01:59:16,320 --> 01:59:19,840
Speaker 8: that threatens federal school funding if you don't let people

2206
01:59:19,880 --> 01:59:23,400
Speaker 8: compete in opposite sex sports, going opposite sex bathrooms and

2207
01:59:23,440 --> 01:59:25,440
Speaker 8: locker rooms and the like. So as long as you

2208
01:59:25,480 --> 01:59:27,480
Speaker 8: have Title nine on the books, there's no real, like

2209
01:59:27,600 --> 01:59:30,840
Speaker 8: local solution to this question of like civil rights, if

2210
01:59:30,880 --> 01:59:33,440
Speaker 8: a woman should have to be in a women's shelter

2211
01:59:33,760 --> 01:59:34,640
Speaker 8: with a man like that.

2212
01:59:34,760 --> 01:59:37,120
Speaker 6: Is a serious question, and it is a material question.

2213
01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:39,680
Speaker 8: And that's where I disagree often with Bernie, and I

2214
01:59:39,760 --> 01:59:41,560
Speaker 8: wonder if privately he would disagree with it too.

2215
01:59:42,000 --> 01:59:43,200
Speaker 6: That's a kitchen table issue.

2216
01:59:43,280 --> 01:59:47,560
Speaker 8: That is, it's not healthcare, although it has healthcare implications,

2217
01:59:47,640 --> 01:59:49,480
Speaker 8: but like when people are putting their heads on the

2218
01:59:49,520 --> 01:59:52,080
Speaker 8: pillow at night, that is something that like genuinely they

2219
01:59:52,120 --> 01:59:54,320
Speaker 8: care about if their kids and their schools are tied

2220
01:59:54,400 --> 01:59:57,080
Speaker 8: up in this and all of that. So I think

2221
01:59:57,160 --> 01:59:59,480
Speaker 8: it could, like I would expect to see that SRA

2222
01:59:59,640 --> 02:00:03,120
Speaker 8: picture everywhere if he's up against Susan Collins, just because

2223
02:00:03,160 --> 02:00:05,360
Speaker 8: it's so I really appreciate what he said about that,

2224
02:00:05,440 --> 02:00:07,440
Speaker 8: Like you should be when when people who shouldn't have

2225
02:00:07,480 --> 02:00:10,480
Speaker 8: firearms are trying to arm up and like larpen militias,

2226
02:00:10,880 --> 02:00:12,480
Speaker 8: I think that's awesome, Like he is the type of

2227
02:00:12,520 --> 02:00:15,080
Speaker 8: person who should be training them up, Like it's awesome

2228
02:00:15,120 --> 02:00:16,520
Speaker 8: for him to go in there and say, I'm gonna

2229
02:00:16,520 --> 02:00:18,200
Speaker 8: teach you how to do this right, but that picture's

2230
02:00:18,240 --> 02:00:20,120
Speaker 8: gonna be everywhere that will definitely dog him.

2231
02:00:20,120 --> 02:00:21,000
Speaker 6: I don't know what you guys think.

2232
02:00:21,440 --> 02:00:23,960
Speaker 7: And Ryan, when you say it's an eighty twenty issue,

2233
02:00:24,520 --> 02:00:27,200
Speaker 7: that sounds like, oh, we need to talk about this,

2234
02:00:27,400 --> 02:00:30,080
Speaker 7: then we need to reverse course. But it's also it's

2235
02:00:30,160 --> 02:00:33,080
Speaker 7: not like a top five issue for people. Is it

2236
02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:35,640
Speaker 7: even a top ten issue for people in nane like

2237
02:00:35,920 --> 02:00:39,080
Speaker 7: when it's an issue of trust after but let's say

2238
02:00:39,640 --> 02:00:42,360
Speaker 7: get someone to like, well, if someone yeah, exactly, but

2239
02:00:42,560 --> 02:00:45,520
Speaker 7: like if someone were to rank like there main's top

2240
02:00:45,600 --> 02:00:47,760
Speaker 7: five issues, is that even in the top five? And

2241
02:00:47,840 --> 02:00:50,920
Speaker 7: then I guess my other question is like, are we

2242
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:53,760
Speaker 7: basically just trying to say, like, don't worry, we're not woke. Now,

2243
02:00:54,360 --> 02:00:57,040
Speaker 7: You're never gonna like not be woke if you're like

2244
02:00:57,120 --> 02:01:00,320
Speaker 7: in the Democratic Party, Like so I think like you're

2245
02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:03,040
Speaker 7: kind of just walking into a terrain where you're never

2246
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:08,160
Speaker 7: going to be as you know, based or on the

2247
02:01:08,280 --> 02:01:10,960
Speaker 7: trans issue as the Republicans, So you're always going to

2248
02:01:11,040 --> 02:01:13,920
Speaker 7: kind of lose the issue. So at that point, if

2249
02:01:13,960 --> 02:01:15,400
Speaker 7: it's not a top five issue, I.

2250
02:01:15,400 --> 02:01:17,960
Speaker 5: Don't think it's an always like I think you know

2251
02:01:18,360 --> 02:01:21,920
Speaker 5: it's this is a new issue, and we we live

2252
02:01:21,960 --> 02:01:24,960
Speaker 5: in a world set up for a binary and now

2253
02:01:25,000 --> 02:01:28,800
Speaker 5: we have a spectrum and a non binary, and so

2254
02:01:28,960 --> 02:01:31,760
Speaker 5: how do how do we integrate those two things is

2255
02:01:31,880 --> 02:01:34,120
Speaker 5: not a settled question yet.

2256
02:01:35,160 --> 02:01:39,320
Speaker 7: But it's also not a question that a I believe

2257
02:01:39,400 --> 02:01:42,120
Speaker 7: like a Democrat candidate will be a Republican on So like,

2258
02:01:42,240 --> 02:01:44,600
Speaker 7: why fight in that territory when it's not a top

2259
02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:46,160
Speaker 7: five issue for maners?

2260
02:01:46,440 --> 02:01:49,120
Speaker 6: Because I think it's important to get right it's a

2261
02:01:49,200 --> 02:01:51,720
Speaker 6: top five issue. No, No, I think here's what it is.

2262
02:01:51,800 --> 02:01:53,840
Speaker 8: It's a litmus test issue for people in terms of

2263
02:01:53,880 --> 02:01:56,040
Speaker 8: whether they trust a candidate when it comes up right.

2264
02:01:56,120 --> 02:01:57,760
Speaker 6: So it's not like people are going to the polls.

2265
02:01:57,800 --> 02:01:59,160
Speaker 8: I think some people do go to the polls, and

2266
02:01:59,320 --> 02:02:01,480
Speaker 8: it's not everyone one, but maybe it's even like ten

2267
02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:04,920
Speaker 8: percent of people are like, I'm voting on the fact

2268
02:02:05,000 --> 02:02:09,160
Speaker 8: that Janet Mills sent our school district spiraling into chaos

2269
02:02:09,240 --> 02:02:11,800
Speaker 8: because everyone was yelling at each other over this policy

2270
02:02:11,920 --> 02:02:13,360
Speaker 8: and I don't think it's right, blah blah. But I

2271
02:02:13,440 --> 02:02:16,640
Speaker 8: think if people see this as a common sense question,

2272
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:18,920
Speaker 8: should a which most people do.

2273
02:02:19,200 --> 02:02:20,400
Speaker 6: To Ryan's eighty twenty point.

2274
02:02:20,840 --> 02:02:24,160
Speaker 8: Should a you know, eighteen year old boy be competing

2275
02:02:24,200 --> 02:02:26,480
Speaker 8: in this track which has been a huge issue in

2276
02:02:26,680 --> 02:02:29,800
Speaker 8: New England, competing this track race with this girl who's

2277
02:02:29,800 --> 02:02:31,840
Speaker 8: going to lose out in scholarships potentially whatever, and they

2278
02:02:31,880 --> 02:02:34,240
Speaker 8: see someone say something on the other side, it just

2279
02:02:34,360 --> 02:02:36,600
Speaker 8: loses trust in that person. I'm not saying it's what

2280
02:02:36,640 --> 02:02:38,480
Speaker 8: they vote on, but I do think because it's such

2281
02:02:38,480 --> 02:02:40,640
Speaker 8: a big topic of conversation, it's seen as a litmus

2282
02:02:40,680 --> 02:02:42,320
Speaker 8: test for whether you're trustworthy.

2283
02:02:42,840 --> 02:02:45,240
Speaker 7: Understand, So I understand that. I understand that, And my

2284
02:02:45,400 --> 02:02:47,880
Speaker 7: argument is, I don't think it loses I don't think

2285
02:02:47,920 --> 02:02:50,720
Speaker 7: it's like a deal breaker trust issue, Like okay, like, yeah,

2286
02:02:50,840 --> 02:02:52,520
Speaker 7: maybe I disagree with them on the train stuff, but

2287
02:02:52,640 --> 02:02:54,200
Speaker 7: I agree with them on housing, I agree with them

2288
02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:56,280
Speaker 7: on all the other things he wants to do for Maine. Like,

2289
02:02:56,360 --> 02:02:58,440
Speaker 7: it doesn't seem like a deal breaker. And in fact,

2290
02:02:58,560 --> 02:03:00,960
Speaker 7: it seems like the more you into that issue that,

2291
02:03:01,080 --> 02:03:04,120
Speaker 7: in my opinion, you'll never win against a Republican, then

2292
02:03:04,320 --> 02:03:11,360
Speaker 7: why pluck? Why why fight that battle last time?

2293
02:03:11,680 --> 02:03:11,920
Speaker 4: Sorry?

2294
02:03:12,520 --> 02:03:15,560
Speaker 5: No, no, go ahead, No, it's uh, it's it's also

2295
02:03:15,640 --> 02:03:18,520
Speaker 5: it's also an issue that needs to be figured out

2296
02:03:18,560 --> 02:03:19,440
Speaker 5: as a society, so.

2297
02:03:19,520 --> 02:03:21,720
Speaker 7: Like but not by like Maine, not by like mayor.

2298
02:03:22,720 --> 02:03:25,200
Speaker 6: It's a huge it's like local news. It's all over.

2299
02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:26,640
Speaker 6: This question is all over man.

2300
02:03:26,960 --> 02:03:27,520
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.

2301
02:03:27,720 --> 02:03:29,480
Speaker 7: And also, you know there was that Trump ad like

2302
02:03:30,400 --> 02:03:33,320
Speaker 7: Kamala's for they them, I'm for you or whatever. I

2303
02:03:33,440 --> 02:03:35,960
Speaker 7: felt like that question had a larger sense outside the

2304
02:03:36,040 --> 02:03:38,720
Speaker 7: trans issue, like that that, yeah, Kamala is for others,

2305
02:03:38,840 --> 02:03:42,200
Speaker 7: Kamala's like not for you, and people kind of ran

2306
02:03:42,240 --> 02:03:43,720
Speaker 7: with that and said it's all about the trans issue.

2307
02:03:43,800 --> 02:03:46,400
Speaker 7: I'm just saying, I don't think a Democrat can be

2308
02:03:46,520 --> 02:03:48,520
Speaker 7: like on the on their hands and he's being like,

2309
02:03:48,800 --> 02:03:52,120
Speaker 7: I promise I'm not woke guys like that just doesn't work.

2310
02:03:52,800 --> 02:03:54,560
Speaker 6: Here's what would be worse for Graham.

2311
02:03:55,120 --> 02:03:57,360
Speaker 8: It would be worse for him to suddenly flip flop

2312
02:03:57,640 --> 02:04:02,000
Speaker 8: on transitions because that also makes you look on trustworthy.

2313
02:04:02,640 --> 02:04:05,400
Speaker 8: That also makes you look like the consultants got to

2314
02:04:05,520 --> 02:04:08,960
Speaker 8: me and now I was this leftist who was at

2315
02:04:09,000 --> 02:04:11,760
Speaker 8: the SRA and I'm like, ah, never mind.

2316
02:04:11,960 --> 02:04:13,920
Speaker 6: So I think it's a really tough balance for him

2317
02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:14,360
Speaker 6: to strike.

2318
02:04:14,840 --> 02:04:17,320
Speaker 8: But I also think there's some wisdom to him saying

2319
02:04:17,360 --> 02:04:20,480
Speaker 8: I'm not throwing immigrants under the bus. I'm not throwing

2320
02:04:20,680 --> 02:04:22,160
Speaker 8: trans kids under the bus. I think he has to

2321
02:04:22,240 --> 02:04:23,880
Speaker 8: have a good answer and you can see him working

2322
02:04:23,920 --> 02:04:27,160
Speaker 8: that in real time with the local answer, and.

2323
02:04:27,280 --> 02:04:28,680
Speaker 6: That's would be. But it's gonna be tough.

2324
02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:31,360
Speaker 8: I think there's like I don't know, I see what

2325
02:04:31,360 --> 02:04:34,720
Speaker 8: you're saying, Griffin, that like you'll never Susan Connins is

2326
02:04:34,720 --> 02:04:36,120
Speaker 8: always going to be able to say what she's gonna

2327
02:04:36,120 --> 02:04:36,760
Speaker 8: be able to say on that.

2328
02:04:37,640 --> 02:04:40,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, then we're gonna have to figure that's something out,

2329
02:04:40,840 --> 02:04:44,960
Speaker 5: Like we gotta get a place where everybody's like comfortable

2330
02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:49,040
Speaker 5: and people's rights are respected on you know, and and

2331
02:04:49,280 --> 02:04:52,600
Speaker 5: space and spaces of respect because like obviously and everybody

2332
02:04:53,120 --> 02:04:55,280
Speaker 5: like basically everybody agrees you can't like you're not gonna

2333
02:04:55,360 --> 02:04:58,640
Speaker 5: just let a guy walk into a women's room at

2334
02:04:58,640 --> 02:05:02,040
Speaker 5: a gym by claiming outside the door that he's a woman.

2335
02:05:02,920 --> 02:05:05,480
Speaker 5: Nobody would allow that. So it's like okay, I mean,

2336
02:05:05,760 --> 02:05:09,480
Speaker 5: like like Hunter Shaeffer, like nobody will allow that. So

2337
02:05:09,520 --> 02:05:11,960
Speaker 5: if we don't allow that, then okay, where are we then?

2338
02:05:12,600 --> 02:05:14,600
Speaker 5: Like what's the what are the actual rules here? Like

2339
02:05:14,920 --> 02:05:18,120
Speaker 5: we need some rules, Like we've got a new in

2340
02:05:18,240 --> 02:05:21,360
Speaker 5: a we have a new like situation that we're dealing

2341
02:05:21,360 --> 02:05:22,880
Speaker 5: with that what are the rules here? And we and

2342
02:05:23,040 --> 02:05:24,560
Speaker 5: as a society, we just had to figure got to

2343
02:05:24,560 --> 02:05:29,800
Speaker 5: figure them out. Democrats. Democrats can't just keep saying, well,

2344
02:05:30,400 --> 02:05:31,120
Speaker 5: don't worry about it.

2345
02:05:31,440 --> 02:05:35,440
Speaker 7: There are so many trans people though that uh that

2346
02:05:35,720 --> 02:05:38,240
Speaker 7: put completely like unless you were told like a purest

2347
02:05:38,280 --> 02:05:41,560
Speaker 7: female and would and they you get eyebrows raised if

2348
02:05:41,680 --> 02:05:44,040
Speaker 7: Hunter Shaeffer walked into the men's room.

2349
02:05:44,080 --> 02:05:46,840
Speaker 8: So it's pretty different with kids, though, I think Republicans

2350
02:05:47,000 --> 02:05:49,680
Speaker 8: is the upperhand when you're talking about adults with the public.

2351
02:05:50,080 --> 02:05:52,160
Speaker 8: And in a state like Maine, which is not Alabama,

2352
02:05:52,280 --> 02:05:55,080
Speaker 8: it is, as Graham invoke, very libertarian, and so I

2353
02:05:55,120 --> 02:05:57,080
Speaker 8: think that's part of the wisdom and talking about it

2354
02:05:57,160 --> 02:05:59,400
Speaker 8: is maybe you can get Susan Collins start talking about

2355
02:05:59,440 --> 02:06:01,840
Speaker 8: that sort of thing. But when it comes to kids,

2356
02:06:02,360 --> 02:06:04,880
Speaker 8: there's you know that that's a totally different question. And

2357
02:06:04,920 --> 02:06:06,600
Speaker 8: I think that's what most of the conversation if I'm

2358
02:06:06,640 --> 02:06:08,960
Speaker 8: if I'm like looking at local media Maine, that's mostly

2359
02:06:09,000 --> 02:06:10,920
Speaker 8: what the conversation has been about high schools and the like.

2360
02:06:11,800 --> 02:06:14,120
Speaker 7: I'm an advocate of the new parent. My my new

2361
02:06:14,160 --> 02:06:17,080
Speaker 7: paradigm is dark woke, where it's like, yeah, we we

2362
02:06:17,360 --> 02:06:20,560
Speaker 7: we we believe these in these issues, and you're we're

2363
02:06:20,600 --> 02:06:22,880
Speaker 7: gonna give you housing, and how are we gonna pay

2364
02:06:22,920 --> 02:06:24,960
Speaker 7: for it. We're gonna melt down all of the high

2365
02:06:24,960 --> 02:06:27,560
Speaker 7: school swimming trophies and that's how we're paying for it.

2366
02:06:28,120 --> 02:06:32,440
Speaker 7: Like like that to me is a far stronger way

2367
02:06:32,520 --> 02:06:34,320
Speaker 7: to go for for for the candidates. And then like

2368
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:36,920
Speaker 7: I do think like maybe there's some like large like

2369
02:06:37,040 --> 02:06:39,520
Speaker 7: federal stuff that could get worked out along the lines

2370
02:06:39,560 --> 02:06:43,360
Speaker 7: of like how we made gay marriage equal or what

2371
02:06:43,560 --> 02:06:47,560
Speaker 7: have you. But I don't think that a candidate needs

2372
02:06:47,680 --> 02:06:50,160
Speaker 7: to be like, fuck, I got to solve this question

2373
02:06:50,640 --> 02:06:54,120
Speaker 7: in my individual race in Maine. That's just my personal take.

2374
02:06:54,240 --> 02:06:58,280
Speaker 7: I'm going dark answer, most kindist answer. All right, well

2375
02:06:58,400 --> 02:07:01,160
Speaker 7: we'll leave it there. Thank you all, folks. We are

2376
02:07:01,240 --> 02:07:05,440
Speaker 7: releasing this full two hour episode for the public. Normally

2377
02:07:05,520 --> 02:07:08,400
Speaker 7: we paywall the first half of the show and then

2378
02:07:08,400 --> 02:07:10,040
Speaker 7: you but you guys are going to see the whole

2379
02:07:10,040 --> 02:07:11,960
Speaker 7: second half because we had Graham today.

2380
02:07:12,920 --> 02:07:15,120
Speaker 6: So if you do, I want to ask people like

2381
02:07:15,200 --> 02:07:16,320
Speaker 6: Graham questions in the future.

2382
02:07:16,400 --> 02:07:19,280
Speaker 7: Yes, here's your picture, Yeah, exactly, if you All those

2383
02:07:19,320 --> 02:07:21,560
Speaker 7: questions today came from our breaking points members. You can

2384
02:07:21,640 --> 02:07:24,600
Speaker 7: sign up today to help our reporting, help us do

2385
02:07:24,640 --> 02:07:27,040
Speaker 7: all these extra shows, all these extra interviews. You go

2386
02:07:27,120 --> 02:07:29,960
Speaker 7: to Breakingpoints dot com. We've got a monthly membership, we've

2387
02:07:29,960 --> 02:07:31,840
Speaker 7: got a yearly membership, and it helps us do what

2388
02:07:31,960 --> 02:07:34,000
Speaker 7: we're doing here every day. So we thank you all

2389
02:07:34,160 --> 02:07:37,160
Speaker 7: for the support. And Happy Halloween.

2390
02:07:38,200 --> 02:07:38,600
Speaker 4: Bye bye.

2391
02:07:39,240 --> 02:07:42,560
Speaker 7: Anyone someone else say something Halloween. No one's stressing out.

2392
02:07:43,760 --> 02:07:46,080
Speaker 6: Don't do a Platiner costume. It's not going to be funny,

2393
02:07:46,120 --> 02:07:46,879
Speaker 6: it's not gonna.

2394
02:07:46,640 --> 02:07:46,960
Speaker 4: Work for you.

2395
02:07:47,680 --> 02:07:50,000
Speaker 6: Shirt off and get it.

2396
02:07:50,760 --> 02:07:54,160
Speaker 7: That's well. I have not seen any Platinir costumes yet.

2397
02:07:54,160 --> 02:07:57,720
Speaker 7: But the day is young folks. We'll see you on Monday.

2398
02:07:57,800 --> 02:07:58,240
Speaker 7: Bye bye