1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. This is part two 3 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: of our two part series on the Infamous, the Notorious, 4 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: the scoundrel Tastic Dan Sickles, uh no, this guy is. 5 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: This guy is a real um freemium awful. I'm thinking 6 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: of pos premium awful swide. I'm gonna say a premium 7 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: uh oh awful like I said, like goods, I'm gonna 8 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: say premium awful. Spoo own mam. We paused. We paused 9 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: before recording the second part of this to just talk 10 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: about spoon Man, rocket around the Christmas Tree earworms for 11 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: everyone who wants an earworm, we got you covered. Spoon 12 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: Man nothing to do with this. I don't even know 13 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: what it's about. I think it's about a dude who 14 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: would like do that handbone thing with spoons, like somewhere 15 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: in Seattle he was the spoon Man, and Chris corneloig 16 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: is like, I'm gonna write a song about that guy, 17 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: and then the rest is history. Feel the rhythm with 18 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: your hands, come together with your hands, like I think 19 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: that's literally as simple as it sounds. He's coming together 20 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: with his hands and the spoons to make the sound 21 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: of the jingle and jangle and spoons and it will 22 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: in some way save you. So this this has nothing 23 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: to do a part two of Dan's Sickles. Um. This 24 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: is just an example of the weird conversations we have 25 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: between recordings, especially on a Friday at the end of 26 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: the day when we're all a bit punchy. And hey, 27 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: you know what I just realized, fellas, it's a long weekend. 28 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: Long weekend, that's true. Oh and uh shout out to 29 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram who does a wonderful spoon Man rendition. 30 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: By the way, I am, I am in awe. Uh. 31 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: Let's go back with Dan. So we mentioned that Dan's 32 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: philandering and his his murder and his trial were not 33 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: the end of his Scalie Wagg's tail. He did even 34 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: more dirt bag stuff during the Civil War. Well you 35 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: know what they say, Ben, one good scandal deserves another. 36 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: Um and uh and and sickles that you know, he 37 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: believed in this adage wholeheartedly. He was given the post 38 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: of commander in the Union Army. At least he was 39 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: on the Union side. Let's just give him that as 40 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: a somewhat positive During the Civil War, um, and he 41 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: was there at the beginning of the Battle of Gettysburg. 42 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: His commander, a general George Meade, who you uh civil 43 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: war buffs out there may have heard of um. He 44 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: told Sickles to hold fast his position. But you know what, 45 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: Sickles isn't one to to take orders for many general. 46 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: You know, he's a man, He's a man of a 47 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: great resolve, uh, the master of his own destiny. So 48 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: he decides he has a better idea. He wants to 49 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: move his men to higher ground. That seems like a 50 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: pretty legit military tactic, despite you know, going against the 51 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: direct order. To be fair, he did ask for permission, um. 52 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: But when he didn't hear anything back. You know, he's 53 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: not one to wait. You know, history time waits for 54 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: no man has another adage that Sickles like to go by. 55 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: So he didn't hear back. How long did he wait though? Yeah? 56 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: I mean that may be lost history, Ben. What do 57 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: you think couldn't have been long? Yeah? I have this 58 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: image of him saying, Okay, send him to ask and 59 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: then let's go move. Yeah. It's like basically a formality, 60 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: you know, or courtesy. So he decides he's going to 61 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: go ahead and do it, and do it anyway. So 62 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: he moved his troops without permission, essentially, you know, uh, 63 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: rejecting a direct order. This is worthy of treason court 64 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: martial at the very least. Yeah, it's disobeying a direct order. 65 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: Here's what happened, Here's why the general wanted him to 66 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: stay there. Uh, this movement took his group out of 67 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: line with the rest of the Union troops. And as 68 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: quoted in the excellent PBS article, Thomas Kennelly, the author 69 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: of American Scoundrel, a two thousand two biography of Sickles, 70 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: explains it this way. He says, moving out a line 71 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: with the rest of the Union troops could have opened 72 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: up a near fatal gap in the line, meaning that 73 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: the enemy could penetrate defenses right in a way that 74 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: could turn the tide of battle. However, Sickles still has 75 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: some defenders in this bit of history who say that 76 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: this move forced the enemy to in gage, and it 77 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: required Union troops to support the open gap and occupy 78 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: the Roundtops, two hills near the line, and that this later, 79 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: quite possibly through accident, turned out to be a very 80 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: strategic point in the battle. So the question really is 81 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: a matter of whether Sickles singlehandedly almost one or lost 82 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: this battle. That this enormously important conflict during the Civil War, 83 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: and historians debate it today. But he did not get 84 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: away from the war clean. He lost his leg with 85 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: his lower leg was shredded by a cannonball at Gettysburg 86 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: and uh, hot dog man, it came at the right time. 87 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: He did not get court martialed for disobeying this order 88 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: because he was wounded and he had an amputated leg 89 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: and people didn't like the optics of punishing a wounded veteran, 90 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,239 Speaker 1: that's right. Uh, So he kind of was elevated even 91 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: higher to the status of a war hero. Uh. And 92 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: you know he was always known as a bit of 93 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: a show boat. Um. He decided in in in show 94 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: body fashion, to donate his lost leg to an army 95 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: medical museum, and he would take women there actually on dates, 96 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: which is an odd flex um. But you know, I 97 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: gotta appreciate his his his houtzpah uh to to see 98 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: his remains, especially on the anniversary of of the amputation. 99 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: And side note, the National Museum of Health and Medicine 100 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: still has the bones on display today. Come away with 101 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: me your vivacious minks, let us regard my leg in 102 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: the museum. In the museum, I mean, yeah, there's not 103 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: many people that can take someone to a museum and 104 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: show them literally a piece of their uh a former 105 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: piece of their body. But so you think he'd hit 106 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: peak scoundrel. Not so. After the war ended, you know, 107 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: he he'd solidified his reputation not as a scoundrel at all, 108 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: but apparently as a war hero. So Sickles actually is 109 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: put in charge of a military district that was established 110 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: in the South. I assumed to make sure those naughty 111 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: Southerners weren't like harboring, like secret slaves or anything. But 112 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: his wife died of tuberculosis that year at the age 113 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: of thirty one. Uh And that was the same year 114 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: that Ulysses Grant appointed Sickles the ambassador of Spain, where 115 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: he continued to add to his lothario resume by carrying 116 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: on a sorted affair with the deposed Spanish queen is 117 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: a bell of a second uh and and and it 118 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: was from this uh dalliance I guess that he earned 119 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: the nickname the Yankee King of Spain. Yes, yes, a 120 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: lecture a libertine like Cassa nova h After the affair, 121 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: he marries one of the queen's attendance. This does not 122 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: strike all members of the court as a super cool 123 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: thing to do. For all members of the government, I 124 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: should say, one Secretary of State, Hamilton's fish accused Sickles 125 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: of quote. This is a quote using child virgins for 126 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: the purpose of depravity. And and that's the Secretary of 127 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: State of US government. And so he forces Sickles resignation. 128 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: Sickles bums around Paris for a few years, and he 129 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: returns to the United States in eighteen seventy nine. I 130 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: want to step back there because in a previous episode 131 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: we talked about the anti spitting campaign to prevent the 132 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: spread of tuberculosis. In this story, we just had someone 133 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: expire from tuberculosis, just underline how real and widespread this was. 134 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: But somehow it did not touch Old Danny s and 135 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: he is still regarded as a war hero. So in 136 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: the Nate eight nineties, he's appointed to head the New 137 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: York State Monuments Commission. It puts him in charge of 138 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: erecting monuments to the Civil War throughout New York. Yeah, 139 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: and you know, you'd think this would be like a 140 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: kind of like, ah, I don't know, a sun setting 141 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: kind of retirement, kind of like you know, cushy career, 142 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: and that also has some prominence attached to it and 143 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: some prestige uh to kind of you know, maybe this 144 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: would be the end of to his dog days, but 145 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: that's not our boys sickles. He knew who he was, 146 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: so in nineteen twelve, officials found twenty eight thousand dollars 147 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: missing from commission accounts UH and arrest He was ninety 148 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: three at this point, ninety three, and so they arrest him. 149 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: But he he he knew he could sell U catch 150 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: up popsicle to a man in white gloves, and he 151 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: uh didn't serve a single day in prison because he 152 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: was able to essentially charm his way out of this situation. Too. 153 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: He did something very similar to a certain uh US 154 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: president as outgoing attempts at fundraising, where he raised money 155 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 1: to essentially like almost like under the guise of, like, 156 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 1: you know, help me clear my name, but essentially it 157 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: just went directly into his pockets. Right, Yeah, yeah, I 158 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't give everybody a sense of how much money we're talking. 159 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: You know, we love a good inflation calculatory eight thousand 160 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: in eight nine, he's equivalent to He's equivalent equivalent to 161 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: uh seven nine six thousand, three hundred and forty three dollars, 162 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: so almost a million bucks. Bold and daring. Yeah, and 163 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: that's so that's a lot of money to raise for 164 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: this guy. People love it though, and uh, the guy, 165 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: as we said, never faces consequence for this. Yeah, he 166 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: didn't seem to. I mean, he did lose his leg 167 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: whish you know, I wouldn't wish that on anybody really, 168 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: So that's definitely a consequence, not a direct concept. Maybe 169 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: it's a karmic consequence, but even that he was able 170 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: to kind of parlay into like getting more play from 171 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: unsuspecting women. And would you believe that when he passed away, 172 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: uh two years later of natural causes, mind you, he 173 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: was buried in Arlington National Cemetery with a with a 174 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: war heroes burial. Uh yeah, well people consider him a 175 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: war hero. However, there there are other lasting consequences of 176 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: this guy's um Motley career. You know, he's considered heroic 177 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: by some, he's considered a criminal and a murderer by others. Uh, 178 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: opinions on him very widely. But he made some marks 179 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: in history. We talked about the insanity defense earlier in 180 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: the episode, but let's go let's go back to that 181 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: a little bit. Since his plea, since he became the 182 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: first person to get away with this, many many, many 183 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: other people have tried to use the insanity defense. Jeffrey Dahmer, 184 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: John Hinckley, as you mentioned earlier, John Wayne Gacy, ed Geane, 185 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: and John DuPont, who you will remember as the multimillionaire 186 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: who murdered an Olympic wrestler that he thought was part 187 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: of a global conspiracy to kill him. What was the movie? 188 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: But isn't Steve Carrell in a movie about that? Fox Catcher? 189 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: Fox Catcher, and all of this really wouldn't have been 190 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: possible without Sickles. And you know, I think it's clear 191 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: that this was absolutely a legal ploy with no uh 192 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: sand to it at all. The man knew exactly what 193 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: he was doing and plotted this for days, and yet 194 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: the jury seemed to buy it. Uh So this is 195 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: a legacy of lies, yea in this case. And of 196 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: course we're not saying there's no such thing as being temporarily, 197 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, mentally unfit, but for this to be the 198 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: first one basically trumped up and invented for this guy's benefit. Um. 199 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: You know, of course, there there are other examples where 200 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: it could well be true. I still am a little 201 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: skeptical of it in general as an argument. But but yeah, 202 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,719 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more about the evolution of 203 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: of this argument and where it came from. Well, right now, 204 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: According to the National Institute of Mental Health, Uh, you're 205 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: going to see this defense invoked in a very small 206 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: number of cases, like less than one percent of felony cases. 207 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: And of that less than one percent of felony cases 208 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: where temporary insanity is used as a defense, it is successful, 209 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: maybe a little less than one out of four times. Uh. 210 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: And also, you know, anybody who's got a grand scheme 211 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: to get away with crime by pleading tipperary insanity, please 212 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: do remember, even if you are that one out of 213 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: four of that less than one percent who successfully pleads this, 214 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: you will probably be institutionalized for years or even decades. 215 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: You're still getting locked up somewhere, is what we're saying. 216 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: It's true. Uh, Ed Gain Um, I believe got off 217 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: on one set of charges using that plea and then 218 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: he was eventually convicted for being criminally insane. And uh 219 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: and you know was committed. You know, he didn't get 220 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: the death penalty. Uh, he was found to be not 221 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: a sound mind. And he you know, lived the rest 222 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: of his life out in a facility of that sort. Um. 223 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: Another thing is interesting about about Sickles is the way 224 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: he just kind of like like wedged himself into these 225 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: like elite corners of high society. Uh, you know, in 226 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: places that you wouldn't expect. In eighteen fifty three, he 227 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: was what's is a position called the Corporation Council for 228 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: the City of New York, and he was responsible for 229 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: acquiring the land that is now Central Park, probably one 230 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: of New York City's most famous features. And he described 231 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: the process, uh, of of setting out to form a 232 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: consulting committee of twenty his words, twenty four gentlemen prominent 233 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: in our municipal social life and with whom I was 234 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: in the habit of conferring upon all questions of importance. 235 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: So this committee is led by Sickles. They select the 236 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: site for what will later become Central Park. And they 237 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: pushed for this location. Uh. This was a this was 238 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: a response to the original plan, which had been to 239 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: put the park in a much much smaller plot or 240 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: site in a different area of New York, but they 241 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: said this growing city needed a larger park. That was 242 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: Sickle's position. Also, before you think this is a moment 243 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: of nobility in in his life, uh, it was very 244 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: much a matter of self interest, the admiraltier motive. You see. 245 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: Sickles had bought building lots near this new site, and 246 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: he knew that if they could just get the park 247 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: built there once it opened, the value of that property 248 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: would skyrocket. Uh. And then after he successfully did this, 249 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: he resigned from his committee post and went on to 250 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: become UH Secretary to the U s Ligation in London. 251 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: So he had he had a plan, he had a 252 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: scheme he did. Indeed, it seems like this guy's whole 253 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: life was a series of plans and schemes, you know. Um, 254 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: and he also just kind of had a reputation as 255 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: being a particularly cool customer. You know. He's a sort 256 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: of a James Bond esque figure, except without the spying stuff, 257 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: just more of the martini and the womanizing bits. I mean, 258 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, again, he did lose his leg in battle. 259 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: Let's let's give the guy credit work credits due. But 260 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: there you know this guy. This type of figure in 261 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: history often gets associated with almost like larger than life 262 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: mythological kind of features. Um And there is a story 263 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: of him when he was escorted off of the battle 264 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: ground at Gettysburg Um where he had lost his leg, 265 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: chomping on a cigar um and and and saying men 266 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: hold your ground, um And that you know has become 267 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: part of the kind of mythos of the second day 268 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: of of Gettysburg. H. W. A. Swanberg's biography Sickles the Incredible, 269 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: published in nineteen fifty six, is a big part of 270 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: what has caused this kind of little piece of uh, 271 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, potentially, I'm not quite sure how much truth 272 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: there is to it, but this piece of Lord to 273 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: kind of propagate, right, according to Swanburgh. He says in 274 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: his book Sickles quote seemed only moderately upset and was 275 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: not one to allow this moment to pass without making 276 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: full use of its dramatic value. Being informed that a 277 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: rumor had gone around that he was mortally wounded, he 278 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: requested stretcher bearer to remove a cigar from his inside 279 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: pocket and light it for him. He was carried away 280 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: with the havana projecting dauntally from his mouth. Yeah, it's 281 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: a great movie moment, right, But the reason it's a 282 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: great movie moment is because it may not be true. 283 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: A lot of historians just sort of took this lovely 284 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: image and ran with it, you know what I mean, 285 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: instead of proving whether or not was true. Uh, contemporary 286 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: sources are not so certain that it is. Uh. There's 287 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: one very important fact here. If the cigar incident actually happened, 288 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: Sickles own writing his own accounts, never mention it. His 289 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: battlefield performance in general became uh, the object of some 290 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: intense scrutiny. And you know, think about it. If he's 291 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: building a career, if he's so sensitive to his public reputation, 292 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: if he literally takes women on dates to look at 293 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: his leg, wouldn't he have talked about his like heroic 294 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: stogy smoking moments. I don't know. It's not proof that 295 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,239 Speaker 1: it didn't happen, but we do know what happens when 296 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: people have injuries of this extreme degree. They'll go into shock, 297 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: They'll lose a lot of blood. So Sickles may not 298 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: have may not even remember how he was acting when 299 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: he was carried away from the conflict. We have proof 300 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: that uh, Sickles in the in the time leading up 301 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: to and immediately after his amputation, we do know that 302 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: he probably that he did chief on a couple of stogies. 303 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: He smoked a cigar too, But it was only in 304 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: later years, after speaking with other veterans, did he start 305 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: like styling on this. So the accounts of from when 306 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: it would have originally happened, Sickles never mentioned it. But 307 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: later in life he suddenly remembers this story and he 308 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: talks about how he had someone put a lit cigar 309 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: in his mouth and carry him down the battle line 310 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: to encourage and talk to my men. Uh. But you know, 311 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: memories a funny thing. It just seems weird that you 312 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: would remember that so much later and never ever mentioned 313 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: it before. So what do you think it's a myth? 314 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: Or do you think it really happens. I don't know, man, 315 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: it seems pretty implausible. It seems like a good story, 316 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But I mean, surely if 317 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: you've you've lost a leg, wouldn't you probably be passed 318 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: out from shock or something. I don't know that you'd 319 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: have the wherewithalts of like you know, puff on a 320 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: black and mild or when now is a haven. This 321 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: is much nicer. But still, no, I do not think 322 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: this happened, Ben, I'm gonna go ahead and lay it 323 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: on the line. I do not think this happened. Uh, 324 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: we do know that he went to seances. We're just 325 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: throwing these sickles facts out. You bury the lead there, 326 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: didn't you been not just any seances? My friend, he 327 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: was getting real cozy with one Mary Todd Lincoln. You 328 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: may have heard of her, married to one of the 329 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: great statesmen of our time, President Abraham Lincoln, UM. And 330 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: there was even speculation that they were a little more 331 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: than just seance pals, right right. Uh. He was a 332 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: frequent visitor to the Lincoln White House, and he was 333 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: one of Mary Todd Lincoln's favorite people. Observers who knew 334 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: of the man's reputation were said to have watched in 335 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: disgust as he called on her at all hours. He 336 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: would be your escort when the president was unavailable, the 337 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: same way that his old friend and victim he had 338 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: escorted his own wife, Teresa years ago. You know, this 339 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: makes me think I wouldn't it be funny if there 340 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: was like kind of a reimagining of pulp fiction where 341 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln as Marcellus Wallace and uh uh, Mary Todd 342 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: Lincoln as Mio Wallace and Dan Sickles is the guy 343 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: who was secretly giving foot massages. And then Lincoln finds 344 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: out and he's like, you don't touch another man's wife's 345 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: feet as a very erotic act, and then he throws 346 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: Dan Sickles from a top story white house window. Uh. 347 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: That would have been a really cool and to this 348 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: absolute scoundrel's life, but unfortunately that is not the way 349 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: it played out. No, no, uh. He did attend a 350 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: seance with Mary Todd Lincoln on February sixty four. Mary 351 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: Todd Lincoln supposedly took him with her to test the 352 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: alleged powers of a medium named Neddie Colburn Maynard. She 353 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: identified him as crooked Knife, which is a very loose 354 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: if you're being charitable, that can be seen as a 355 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: very loose translation of his surname Sickles. Crooked knife. That 356 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: that almost is like that sounds like the kind of 357 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: thing you'd uses like a coded way of referring to, 358 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: like an operative or an informant, like deep throat or 359 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: something like that. Crooked Knife also strikes me as and 360 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: what could be a nickname for someone's little Australia. Wow. Yeah, 361 00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: that's a disturbing nickname. Though. We want to end on 362 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: a lovely little lesson in pettiness by none other than 363 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: Samuel Clemens, better known perhaps as Mark Twain, fantastic writer 364 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: and uh fantastic storyteller, also known for his uh savage wit. 365 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: He's kind of a predecessor to the host of late 366 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: night comedy shows. You know, Uh, every everybody knew that 367 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: sickles post war Uh made this point of leaving his 368 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: artificial leg at home whenever he would go do veterans 369 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: stuff because of the image it depicted. And this prompted 370 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: Mark Twain to say, the general valued his lost leg 371 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: above the one that has left. I am perfectly sure 372 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: that if he had to part with either of them, 373 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: he would part with the one that he has got. 374 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: And that's actually I have it's from his autobiography. That's 375 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: where Mark Twain is saying that. And uh, that's a 376 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: good book too. But it's very very long, it's not 377 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: very edited. Well that's in Yeah, you gotta have an editor, 378 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: Mark Twain. Um. But yeah, this goes to show what 379 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: a ZEITGEISTI figure this dude was that Mark Twain felt 380 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: the need to give his hot take about his relationship 381 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: with his lost limb. And here our tail draws to 382 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: a close. Daniel Sickles has been called a scoundrel. Some 383 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: people called him a war hero. And one thing's for sure, 384 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: a lot of people who lived at the same time 385 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: that he did found him to be an extraordinarily likable, 386 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: if untrustworthy person, which I think is it's kind of 387 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: a definition of his scoundrel. What do you think, man, Oh, 388 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: I want to know what's super producer? Casey Pegram things. 389 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: He's a land of contrast. He uh, he lived to 390 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: live the life. He did live a life, Casey on 391 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: the case that's true, Casey, I mean, you know, like 392 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: it was, it was a dog eat dog world back 393 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: in those days. You had to make your own way. Uh, 394 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: and you gotta you know, you gotta crack a few 395 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: eggs to make a delicious um cuckled the omelet um. 396 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: Because the thing is, I know, I know, not good. 397 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: I would say it's still a dog eat dog world. 398 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: It certainly is. Been, it certainly is. I guess all 399 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: I'm saying is the little blur by Red at the 400 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: top of episode one from PBS about how we assume 401 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: that the moral fabric of society has just gotten you know, 402 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: more and more unraveled over time. I would argue that 403 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: that is not the case, that people have been depraved 404 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: since the beginning of time. Um, And I don't know 405 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: if it's necessarily like a better or worse situation at all, 406 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: you know, I think that's a true The idea we 407 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: have of Victorian morality, as we've mentioned in previous episodes, 408 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: is somewhat mythical. It's not it's not entirely based in fact. 409 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: Oh my cats, sorry everybody. Uh, our episode day has 410 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: been interrupted not by Jonathan Strickland ak the Quister, but 411 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: by Dr Vankman. Dr Vankman, he's actually in frame this time. Yeah, 412 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: I've moved him off, but you know, to your point 413 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: casey Uh. It reminds me of the Walt Whitman quote 414 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 1: from uh the Song of Myself? Right? Do I contradict myself? 415 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: Very well? Then I contradict myself. I am large. I 416 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: contain multitudes. I think we all do. We're so many 417 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: different people over the course of our lives, over the 418 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: course of a given day. Um, maybe we should hesitate 419 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: to Judge Daniel Sickles, I don't know, man, I still 420 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: don't like him. I don't. I don't think he's a 421 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: good person. No, no, I don't think he's a good person. Here. 422 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: I think he's probably one of history is great uh miscreants. 423 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: But you know what, he makes for a great story. 424 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: And we hope that you enjoyed this two parter of 425 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: ridiculous History. Huge thanks to you, as always, Casey super producer, 426 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: Casey Pegrin. That is thanks to Alex Williams who composed 427 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: this track. The kids would call it a bob. Thanks 428 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: as always to the one and only Gabe Lousier. Thanks 429 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 1: to Eve's Jeff Coat, host of our pure podcast UH 430 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: this day in History Class thinks, of course, to Christopher 431 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: Hasciotis and Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The Quister. Jonathan, 432 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: if you're listening, it seems that you may have a 433 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: challenger to your position of ridiculous histories, top scoundrel. Hey, 434 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: if you want to find us on the internet, you 435 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: can do so on social media. Why not join our 436 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: Facebook group Ridiculous Historians. Just name a name, any part 437 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: of the show, a topic, whatever. Don't worry about what 438 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: the question actually is just let us know that you're 439 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: a human person, that you actually know what the show is, 440 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: and you're in lots of good memes sharing and conversation 441 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: from our fellow ridiculous historians. You can also find us 442 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: on Instagram, uh, Twitter, and all that. Honestly, the most 443 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: active accounts you're gonna follow are going to be our 444 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: individual accounts as human people. I am at how Now 445 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: Noel Brown on Instagram. If you have questions about this 446 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: episode or any other episodes, feel free to hit me 447 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: up directly. I am at Ben Bollon on Instagram. You 448 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: can find me at Ben Bolen hs W on Twitter. 449 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: I believe that that's our show today, Casey Nol, thank 450 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: you guys so much. I hope everyone has a wonderful 451 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: long weekend and does not get shot with a cannon, 452 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: specifically talking to you, Casey, watch out for those cannons. 453 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: I'll be on the look out. I'll see you next 454 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: time Folix. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit 455 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 456 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.