WEBVTT - Jon Gray

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<v Speaker 1>John Gray and I met last May when You're on Appeal,

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<v Speaker 1>the global director of Arts for Chanel invited me to

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<v Speaker 1>be his guest on their Connects podcast. John and I

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<v Speaker 1>got together and we spoke about family, our cookbooks, ghetto gastro,

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<v Speaker 1>collaborating with creative partners, food activism, and a lot more. Today, though,

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<v Speaker 1>the tables are turned and Sean is my guest on

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<v Speaker 1>Ruthie's Table four. He's just had a lunch at the

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<v Speaker 1>River Cafe and now with Sean Owen, we're ready to

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<v Speaker 1>pick up where we left off. So here you are.

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<v Speaker 1>When did you get here? Did you just fly in from.

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<v Speaker 2>On fresh off the plane dropping the flame? Fresh from

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<v Speaker 2>New York? Your birth state?

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<v Speaker 1>I know it is one hundred miles north. We still

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<v Speaker 1>claim you, you can claim you. That's a good state.

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<v Speaker 1>And what are you doing here?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm here for freezing the one five four Art Fair

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<v Speaker 2>and to see you. I don't want to wait till

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<v Speaker 2>you got to New York. I wanted to come do this.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, to do it here? Well, why don't we start?

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<v Speaker 1>As we're talking that food? Your recipe? So we asked

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<v Speaker 1>you to choose the recipe from one of our twelve cookbooks.

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<v Speaker 1>And you chose I.

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<v Speaker 2>Got the linguini with crab. I don't know how to

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<v Speaker 2>pronounce it with the Italian pronunciation linguini al grancio. Is

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<v Speaker 2>that right? You said you like linguini agraaccio. Linguini with

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<v Speaker 2>crab serves ten Two large male crabs about two to

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<v Speaker 2>three kilograms, cooked and picked. Three fresh red chilies, finely chopped,

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<v Speaker 2>Three handfuls flat leaf parsley finely chopped. Make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>knife is sharp, juice of four lemons, three garlic clothes

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<v Speaker 2>ground to a paste, five hundred grams of linguini that

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<v Speaker 2>evo aka extra version olive oil. Put the white and

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<v Speaker 2>brown crab meat in a large bowl. Lookas everybody's coming together.

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<v Speaker 2>White and brown. Add the chili and most of the

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<v Speaker 2>chopped parsley, the lemon, juice and crust garlic, stirring the

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<v Speaker 2>olive oil. This sauce should be quite liquid. Cook them

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<v Speaker 2>linguini and a generous amount of boiling salts of water.

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<v Speaker 2>Then drain and stir into the crab sauce. Serve with

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<v Speaker 2>the remaining finely choked parsley.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so why did you choose this recipe?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, crab is a very meaningful ingredient for me, And

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<v Speaker 2>then when I think about ghetto gastro our signature dish

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<v Speaker 2>involves crab. It's the triple c's corn bread, crab and

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<v Speaker 2>caviare and for me, like growing up in communities that

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<v Speaker 2>are historically underestimated, they tell you things like, oh, the

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<v Speaker 2>people in your community are crabs in a barrel. They

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<v Speaker 2>don't want anybody to succeed or thrive. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>crabs don't belong in a barrel. So when you think

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<v Speaker 2>about different types of environments that humans should exist in,

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<v Speaker 2>it should not be in environments with scarcity and lack.

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<v Speaker 2>It should be abundance. You know. I think it's enough

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<v Speaker 2>on this plane of for us all to thrive and

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<v Speaker 2>not just have to.

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<v Speaker 1>Survive and tell us a corn bread yeah, cornbread.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So this dish like it started with the name

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<v Speaker 2>I want to say, like I feel like in twenty

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<v Speaker 2>and thirteen, we just I was listening to this group

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<v Speaker 2>called Triple Seeds, the Carol City Cartel, and I'm like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we should do a dish name Triple Seeds, And I

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<v Speaker 2>just started thinking of things that would work with the

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<v Speaker 2>letter C. So corn bread we use as a base

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<v Speaker 2>and the dishes had iterations like we've done corn bread

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<v Speaker 2>with crim fresh and cucumber, but none of these things

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<v Speaker 2>were just they didn't work like properly. But then we

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<v Speaker 2>were like, oh, let's just make it. Let's make it opulent,

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<v Speaker 2>and then we built the storytelling into it once once

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<v Speaker 2>we found that. So when you think about corn bread,

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<v Speaker 2>that's a collaboration between enslaved Africans and indigenous Native Americans, right,

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<v Speaker 2>because that's an American ingredient corn. Then you think about

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<v Speaker 2>the crab again with the crabs and a barrel, so

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<v Speaker 2>like having that layered storytelling in the dish. And then

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<v Speaker 2>caviat you know, which often people reference as the pinnacle opulence.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you think caviar, you think truffles. Right, when you

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<v Speaker 2>think something that is expensive, like when you're on a

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<v Speaker 2>date and they're like do you want that supplemental caviar

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<v Speaker 2>or truffle, you look at across the table like take

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<v Speaker 2>it easy. But yeah, So it's something that is not

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily European. It's really like Middle Eastern, you know, when

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<v Speaker 2>you think about coming from the castm and see Persia.

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<v Speaker 2>Russia also connects to that, so and it's black. So

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<v Speaker 2>you wanted to put the black at the top of

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<v Speaker 2>the dish, you know, so to think about how these

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<v Speaker 2>things could stack up to have a narrative.

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<v Speaker 1>So tell us about Ghetto Gastro.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Ghetto Gastro. It's a collection of individuals from the Bronx.

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<v Speaker 2>We use food as a vehicle to tell stories. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's me, my partner Lester, my other partner, Pierre, and

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<v Speaker 2>we started just doing a lot of like creating experiences

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<v Speaker 2>like around the world. Really started doing house parties at

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<v Speaker 2>my house now. I remember my first time having caviar

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<v Speaker 2>was caviar that Lester took from his job at Madison

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<v Speaker 2>Square Garden that they had like extra because he was

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<v Speaker 2>the soux chefs at the Delta Suites, so they were

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<v Speaker 2>all these crazy ingredients like far grive and often they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't use them all, so he had a lot of caviar.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember he took some file he made a beautiful

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<v Speaker 2>torch show. I used my food stamps and go to

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<v Speaker 2>Whole Foods to go to the farmers park a gets

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<v Speaker 2>some produce and we would host these dinner parties for

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<v Speaker 2>friends at my tiny West Village apartment. And this is

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twelve, and then from there we just started

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<v Speaker 2>doing projects with different collaborators like brands or art institutions,

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<v Speaker 2>and they wanted the essence, and it's really about highlighting

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<v Speaker 2>the reference material where we come from the Bronx, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>looking at hip hop as an exercise and postmodernism like

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<v Speaker 2>a symblige, like taking things that people don't imagine go

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<v Speaker 2>together and creating a new vernaculus.

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<v Speaker 1>When you describe yourself, are you a chef? Are you

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<v Speaker 1>a cook?

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<v Speaker 2>I've typically called myself the dishwasher with thin ghetto gas

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<v Speaker 2>show because my partners are like farm trained, restaurant trained chefs,

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<v Speaker 2>whereas me, I'm good with the menu in my hand.

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<v Speaker 2>I handle the business in the creative direction. I would

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<v Speaker 2>like to think my palette is incredible just because I've

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<v Speaker 2>tasted so many things and I have a deep love

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<v Speaker 2>and knowledge and respect for the people that use their hands.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have the skill to make it all work

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<v Speaker 2>on the plate, but the concepts are there, so it's

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<v Speaker 2>a great collaboration.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you talk a lot about collective and I was

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<v Speaker 1>wondering if you could tell us what collective is. What

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<v Speaker 1>is the meaning of a collective?

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<v Speaker 2>I think convening and being a part of a collective

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<v Speaker 2>in community is essential to me because I never really

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<v Speaker 2>took the time to become really good at anything but

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<v Speaker 2>assembling people. So I kind of need other people to

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<v Speaker 2>help make things that I want to exist in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's kind of been a means of survival for me,

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<v Speaker 2>like a necessity like and it started I think early

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<v Speaker 2>when I was really young and most of my friends

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<v Speaker 2>were a lot older than me. So when they drew

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<v Speaker 2>they drew way better, and I was like, I'll never

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<v Speaker 2>get this good. But I have a lot of ideas.

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<v Speaker 2>So can I use them as a vessel to help

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<v Speaker 2>create the ideas that are in my brain and look

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<v Speaker 2>the way I want them to look because my hand

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't able to create what I was thinking?

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<v Speaker 1>And is it for profit? Is it it's a business?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely?

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<v Speaker 1>And then what about your work in the Bronx.

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<v Speaker 2>The community efforts that we do. I feel like, in

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<v Speaker 2>my opinion, growing up how we grew up and where

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<v Speaker 2>we grew up and still having family members and relatives

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<v Speaker 2>and dear friends that might be living below the poverty

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<v Speaker 2>line or not have certain access. It's not like we

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<v Speaker 2>just escape the reality, you know. So it's unfortunate, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's also I do love the grounds and effect that

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<v Speaker 2>I still live in the community that I grew up in,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. So you're dealing with issues of broken homes, incarceration,

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<v Speaker 2>all of these things that come with generations of systemic oppression.

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<v Speaker 2>But for us, we focus on food. Food is our tool, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So we work with organizations I like to say, we

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<v Speaker 2>try to empower and provide resources to people that are

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<v Speaker 2>actually doing the work. Like we have a platform and

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<v Speaker 2>we talk about it, but we work with the Southretta

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<v Speaker 2>family their own Lamorada, which is a hawking restaurant in

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<v Speaker 2>the South Bronx, but they're undocumented. When the pandemic hit,

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<v Speaker 2>they just started using the food that they had in

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<v Speaker 2>their pantry and cooking for families and just not charging them.

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<v Speaker 2>So we saw that work happen and we're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>we need to support this, and then we partnered with

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<v Speaker 2>Rethink Foods, got some money from some brands, use some

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<v Speaker 2>of our own dollars, and just like started feeding people

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<v Speaker 2>and also people that were forgotten about, like people that

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<v Speaker 2>were formerly incarcerated elders that couldn't like walk down from

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<v Speaker 2>Nisha to go get to the soup kitchen, like, so

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<v Speaker 2>delivering it to their door at the height of the

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<v Speaker 2>Pandemics and they also have a community garden. So we've

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<v Speaker 2>been doing a lot of work with them in The

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<v Speaker 2>Bronx and then some our organization, some stuff with Lauren

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<v Speaker 2>Halseley South Central la some organizations we work with in

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<v Speaker 2>New Orleans, and we try to spread it out.

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<v Speaker 1>South Bunks is one of the poorest series in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know if it's still accurate, but it

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<v Speaker 2>definitely had the poorest congressional district in the country, which

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<v Speaker 2>always shocked me because we.

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<v Speaker 1>Think that's amazing that in New York. You think poverty

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<v Speaker 1>would be in Appalachia in the South.

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<v Speaker 2>Or Mississippi or something. My ignorance, I was like, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>that has to be somewhere different. But now it's like

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<v Speaker 2>in New York City, what do they say, eighty blocks

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<v Speaker 2>from Tiffany's Like there was a movie that came out

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<v Speaker 2>about how different things are eighty blocks from you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Fifth Avenue or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Access to food is very evident in poorer areas of

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<v Speaker 1>the United States. We're in any country that I remember

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<v Speaker 1>reading about the South Bronx, but you know, if you

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<v Speaker 1>look at the kind of access we have to food,

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<v Speaker 1>in other areas that the access of fresh vegetables in

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<v Speaker 1>the South Bronx was limited.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so ironic. This is very true the Bronx in general,

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<v Speaker 2>not just the South Park, but when you talk about

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<v Speaker 2>food insecurity or when you talk about poverty, the Bronx

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<v Speaker 2>is highlighted. And the thing that's so ironic about the

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<v Speaker 2>Bronx is that the largest food distribution center in the

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<v Speaker 2>world of its kinds in the South Bronx. So much

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<v Speaker 2>of the food that's in the Bronx leaves, but it

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<v Speaker 2>not just leaves, right. The people in these communities are

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with the effects of the diesel fuel emissions, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So when you look at asthma rates in these neighborhood

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<v Speaker 2>when you look at obesity or different like hypertension, high

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<v Speaker 2>blood pressure, all the results that come from lack of

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<v Speaker 2>a healthy diet, the lack of access and how inconvenient

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<v Speaker 2>it is to find a spot to get fresh food,

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<v Speaker 2>like Hunts point with the food distribution centers actually one

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<v Speaker 2>of the most food and secure spots probably in the

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<v Speaker 2>city because it's so industrial and it's like broken up.

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<v Speaker 2>But I also think there's a lack of We also

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<v Speaker 2>have to talk about desire right, And I think culturally

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<v Speaker 2>so many of our foods, Like when people think about

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<v Speaker 2>Black American food, they think about often what they call

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<v Speaker 2>soul food, and I think all food is soulful. But

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<v Speaker 2>when we look at the diets that our ancestors had,

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<v Speaker 2>they were like more and more balanced. I think for us,

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<v Speaker 2>it's also about creating desires. And I think you create

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<v Speaker 2>the desire through the storytelling and also making it compelling

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<v Speaker 2>and culturally relevant. For like vegetables to taste delicious in

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<v Speaker 2>a certain way.

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<v Speaker 1>We worked Sean and I for a couple of these.

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<v Speaker 1>We went to Edible school Yard. Do you remember that

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<v Speaker 1>experience of trying to teach children about vegetables, about food

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<v Speaker 1>through having gardens in the school that could be on

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<v Speaker 1>the roof, it could be in the car park, but

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<v Speaker 1>to grow, which she calls the edible school yard.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you remember in Shepherd's Bush where I live, I

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<v Speaker 3>cook with school there. I like to bring the kids

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<v Speaker 3>to the River Cafe, so it's always a Monday in July.

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<v Speaker 3>Usually the culmination of the working with them is that

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<v Speaker 3>they cook a meal for their parents, the teachers at

0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.120
<v Speaker 3>the local community and everyone layser table and they serve

0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.320
<v Speaker 3>everyone and cook. But I show them around the first

0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.240
<v Speaker 3>of all, I like hook them in by showing them

0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.199
<v Speaker 3>the toilets at the River Cafe because I don't know

0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.040
<v Speaker 3>if you went, but they're very bright and.

0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.400
<v Speaker 1>They're like, wow, look at these toilets. You know.

0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, they were all like oh, and I'm like,

0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:52.520
<v Speaker 3>guess who instagram the picture of themselves?

0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:53.200
<v Speaker 1>They love it.

0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:55.800
<v Speaker 3>And then we show them around and there's kids from

0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.040
<v Speaker 3>diverse area. It's interesting to see the difference of what

0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.360
<v Speaker 3>they know. Often some of the North African kids know

0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.480
<v Speaker 3>a lot about hubs and broad beans and things that

0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.120
<v Speaker 3>other kids are just like eating fish fingers every night.

0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.959
<v Speaker 3>They ever even see the broad bean. It's nice to

0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:14.280
<v Speaker 3>see that played out with the young ones.

0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.920
<v Speaker 2>I think edible schoolyard is important because when you're able

0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.720
<v Speaker 2>to connect where the food comes from and you have

0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:20.960
<v Speaker 2>an emotional connection, like if you plant it the seed

0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.240
<v Speaker 2>tended to a garden that carrot, just like when you

0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.160
<v Speaker 2>walk into a restaurant where the hospitality is great, everything's

0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:27.840
<v Speaker 2>going to taste better. So it's like, how do we

0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.200
<v Speaker 2>make it so that knowledge doesn't get left behind in

0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.720
<v Speaker 2>the school where it could also come into the homes

0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.720
<v Speaker 2>and be reinforced. And some of the reasons why it's

0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.400
<v Speaker 2>a lack of access and food in America, it's because

0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 2>the government subsidizes cash crops, right, so farmers are less

0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.880
<v Speaker 2>inclined to grow fresh vegetables because of shelf life, and

0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.600
<v Speaker 2>more inclined to grow corn soy. We eat a lot

0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.000
<v Speaker 2>of these monsanto crops. It ends up destroying the nitrogen

0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.359
<v Speaker 2>the soil because people aren't rotating regularly, so the agriculture

0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.840
<v Speaker 2>isn't regenerative. And also it drops the cost up of

0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.240
<v Speaker 2>fresh vegetables. So and when you're looking at calorie to

0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:07.280
<v Speaker 2>calorie and when people are making economic decisions, it's often

0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.760
<v Speaker 2>not going to be the freshest best option for your health.

0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.400
<v Speaker 1>But it is also to do with all of what

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.120
<v Speaker 1>society values, you know, how we feed our children in school,

0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.120
<v Speaker 1>how we seek people in hospitals. Really what we value

0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.200
<v Speaker 1>as a society in terms of feeding and educating people.

0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.280
<v Speaker 1>That's a basic we got to put a profit. It's

0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.200
<v Speaker 1>a human right to eat well and to feed up people.

0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:34.320
<v Speaker 2>I agree.

0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:35.200
<v Speaker 4>I agree.

0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.840
<v Speaker 1>The River Cafe is excited to announce the return of

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:52.160
<v Speaker 1>our Italian Christmas gift boxes, our alternative to the traditional Hamper.

0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.680
<v Speaker 1>They bring you all of our favorite ingredients and food

0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.760
<v Speaker 1>and home wors from the River Cafe kitchen, the vineyards

0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.560
<v Speaker 1>and the designers from all over Italy. They're available to

0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.080
<v Speaker 1>pre order now on shop the River Cafe dot co

0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.880
<v Speaker 1>dot uk. So you grew up in the South Bronx.

0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.680
<v Speaker 2>I grew up between East Harlem, the South Bronx and

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:16.880
<v Speaker 2>the North Bronx. I spent the majority of my time

0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:18.359
<v Speaker 2>in the North Bronx.

0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.520
<v Speaker 1>And North Bronx is on the way to Connecticut, right, it's.

0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.400
<v Speaker 2>On the way to Connecticut Westchester upstate. It's like right

0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.040
<v Speaker 2>on the border of Westchester County.

0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and tell me about growing up. What was your

0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:30.000
<v Speaker 1>home like?

0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:34.840
<v Speaker 2>So my childhood was interesting because my mother single parent.

0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.240
<v Speaker 2>We lived on the floor in co Op City, which

0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:42.200
<v Speaker 2>is a Mitchell Lama kind of rent control, lower middle

0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.480
<v Speaker 2>class like housing. They created opportunities for people to get

0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:47.560
<v Speaker 2>homes and like have fixed rent and be in a

0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:51.000
<v Speaker 2>beautiful community. My grandmother lived on the same floor as me,

0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.480
<v Speaker 2>so it was like a real in My my grandmother

0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:55.040
<v Speaker 2>and my aunt my other car. So it was like

0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 2>a firm matriarchal situation. It was that was the only

0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.200
<v Speaker 2>male in my family. It was my great grandfather who

0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.840
<v Speaker 2>had three daughters, my grandmother being one of them. All

0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.480
<v Speaker 2>of those daughters except my aunt Sheila, she didn't have children.

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.160
<v Speaker 2>They both had two daughters, and then my mother had me.

0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.400
<v Speaker 2>So it was like all of these women and then me.

0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 2>So even at a young age, I felt like I

0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 2>had to take care of things, like I had a

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.600
<v Speaker 2>burden that I just self imposed. Nobody like put pressure

0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.560
<v Speaker 2>on me. Everybody was doing fine, but I felt like

0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:22.600
<v Speaker 2>I needed to take care of these women that took

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.800
<v Speaker 2>care of me. And they're all educator. So I grew

0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.600
<v Speaker 2>up like with knowledge being important. I always struggled with

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.040
<v Speaker 2>my behavior though allegedly.

0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Did you feel that you had to take care of

0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:34.920
<v Speaker 1>them food wise as well? Did your mom cook?

0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.160
<v Speaker 2>My grandmother's not going to listen to this. My grandmother

0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.280
<v Speaker 2>wasn't the best cook, which is probably why my mother

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.400
<v Speaker 2>went hard to become a great cook. And my mother's

0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.280
<v Speaker 2>also just a different type of person where it's like

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.800
<v Speaker 2>she gets interested in something and she studies. So my

0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.840
<v Speaker 2>mother has two culinary degrees, one from the Natural Gramet

0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.200
<v Speaker 2>School of Cooking in New York, and she went to

0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 2>a special pastry school in Chicago. Whereas me, when I'm

0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.800
<v Speaker 2>interested in something, I started business and learned about it

0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 2>just from doing the things. But I was able to

0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 2>benefit from my mother taking these courses and learning how

0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 2>to do the thing, and so yeah, she's a really

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.120
<v Speaker 2>good cook. But my mother often worked during the day

0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 2>at a hair salon. She used to wash Lenny Kravitz

0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.880
<v Speaker 2>and Michael Jackson's hair at this I want to say

0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.600
<v Speaker 2>it was John ash Atkinson is a hair salon. She

0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 2>worked on the Fifth Avenue. That job exposed to a

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.600
<v Speaker 2>different type of eating, so she was going to like

0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.200
<v Speaker 2>the French bakery for lunch, or like the Italian spot

0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:29.520
<v Speaker 2>or the Indian curry spot. So naturally I kind of

0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:33.000
<v Speaker 2>inherited that curiosity about food. So she often didn't have

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.480
<v Speaker 2>time to cook because she after work, she would go

0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 2>work on her college degree, and then at night it

0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 2>was just us. She picked me up from my grandmother's

0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.280
<v Speaker 2>a babysitter or whatever, and then we'd go out for dinner.

0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.480
<v Speaker 2>That was like our bonding time. And at this moment,

0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 2>I was living in the East Harlem, like one hundred

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.120
<v Speaker 2>Street between First and Second and Metro in the projects

0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.320
<v Speaker 2>called Metro North. So we go to the upper east

0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.120
<v Speaker 2>side off then, and I remember this restaurant called First Walk.

0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.560
<v Speaker 2>It was a Cantonese restaurant, and we would then just

0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.040
<v Speaker 2>sit there eat, and I remember it was this older woman,

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.199
<v Speaker 2>an older Jewish lady. She was a regular too, so

0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:06.840
<v Speaker 2>we would we would eat there and see each other

0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.000
<v Speaker 2>whole time. And I asked her. I was a social kid.

0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.880
<v Speaker 2>I asked her about you know what she ordered. She's like, oh, yeah,

0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 2>I always get the lemon chicken. And in that night,

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 2>I ordered the lemon chicken. And I was like, this

0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 2>is not good. And I told her what she should

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 2>order and why she should order that, and I want

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.119
<v Speaker 2>to say it was probably the orange chicken or the

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.600
<v Speaker 2>sessame chicken. And I was like, it has a sweetness,

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.119
<v Speaker 2>it comes with the broccoli, fried garlic. And this is

0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.639
<v Speaker 2>how I was thinking about ingredients and the assemblage of

0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.399
<v Speaker 2>things coming together to make a dish. And I remember

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.119
<v Speaker 2>she tasted it the next time we were there, and

0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:39.520
<v Speaker 2>she was like, you know what I ordered, what you

0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:43.000
<v Speaker 2>said I should order. You're such a remarkable boy. And

0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.520
<v Speaker 2>I remember the confidence I felt, because you know, your

0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.640
<v Speaker 2>parents and your family members tell you you're excellent, You're great.

0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 2>You could be anything you want. But getting that external

0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.280
<v Speaker 2>validation gave me such a boosting confidence, and I think

0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.879
<v Speaker 2>subconsciously I just associated food with that feeling for the

0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:59.920
<v Speaker 2>rest of my life. It took me as an ad

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.560
<v Speaker 2>to like search, spind the block and come back around

0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.040
<v Speaker 2>to knowing that food is where I find joy and

0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.520
<v Speaker 2>the communion with people and all of the things that

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.639
<v Speaker 2>food brings. The window in the culture. Even growing up

0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:12.040
<v Speaker 2>in the hood in the Bronx, you go to the

0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Chinese spot and you understand, like, oh, people eat with

0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.080
<v Speaker 2>things other than folks and knives. There are chop six

0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.400
<v Speaker 2>let's learn more about this. And I'm just a super

0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.960
<v Speaker 2>curious person and I love history and people's stories and

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.360
<v Speaker 3>So interesting. I think also it's the sort of thing

0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 3>that even the young guys who work with the there's

0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:31.960
<v Speaker 3>people of all ages here. And I always say to

0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 3>the chefs, there's no shame in wanting to have a

0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.239
<v Speaker 3>night off work, because you've always feel like if you're

0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:39.240
<v Speaker 3>a chef, you have to work really long hours. There's

0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.359
<v Speaker 3>no shame in going out and saying I want to

0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:43.399
<v Speaker 3>read about food. If I want to go and cook

0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.480
<v Speaker 3>and cook with friends or go out as any as groups,

0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.960
<v Speaker 3>and they don't eat in places I imagine that Ruthie frequents,

0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.679
<v Speaker 3>but they're together and talking, and you know, more than

0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:53.639
<v Speaker 3>ever you see people trying to put their phones away,

0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:57.080
<v Speaker 3>so they actually communicate over a meal of whatever it is,

0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.520
<v Speaker 3>and they have a constant dialogue about food. It's really important.

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:03.399
<v Speaker 3>We were really bad people to go out for dinner with, though,

0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.320
<v Speaker 3>because if I go out with my partner, I try

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 3>not to talk too much about the food because it's

0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:10.840
<v Speaker 3>probably boring for a not and I'm just like trying

0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.040
<v Speaker 3>to keep that to myself, so I'm not like this

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.639
<v Speaker 3>is like too much soul or that this isn't placed

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.360
<v Speaker 3>how I want it. And every day is that conversation

0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.080
<v Speaker 3>with yourself about what you're eating and where you're eating,

0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:21.440
<v Speaker 3>isn't it.

0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.680
<v Speaker 2>You gotta just pick better friends that want to talk

0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:26.680
<v Speaker 2>about her food. Like my friend Dream is sitting here

0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:29.480
<v Speaker 2>now and she has a concept called I don't know

0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.119
<v Speaker 2>if she trademarked this for food Tap, So it's like

0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.639
<v Speaker 2>it's like knowing people that you'll kind of submit to

0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 2>with their restaurant recommendation. Right. So she's probably the boss

0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:41.480
<v Speaker 2>of most of her people in terms of picking the

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.960
<v Speaker 2>spot where we're eating. I'm probably gonna pick what we're ordering,

0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.080
<v Speaker 2>she says. I'm her food tap, where she'll trust me

0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.000
<v Speaker 2>to make the right judgment on a restaurant or some

0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.119
<v Speaker 2>place to go. And then I have one person, my

0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.760
<v Speaker 2>friend Giorgio from Italy, who I don't want to use

0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 2>my brain. If I'm in Italy with him, I'm like, yo, Georgia,

0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:58.879
<v Speaker 2>whatever you take us, I know it's good. Do the

0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:00.760
<v Speaker 2>thing I don't. I don't want to to think about it.

0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:02.920
<v Speaker 2>So it's like being able to bond and like I've

0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.560
<v Speaker 2>built community. Food is usually the connective tissue, Like if

0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:07.960
<v Speaker 2>we love food, we're going to like have deeper conversation,

0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.440
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna break bed, we're going to do things and vibe.

0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 2>And I think also people that care about what they

0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.560
<v Speaker 2>put into their body and like the ritual of that

0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.200
<v Speaker 2>and how important that is really have a different value

0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:21.000
<v Speaker 2>for life. Like now, people that just have a bunch

0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:22.439
<v Speaker 2>of money and want to go to all the fancy

0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.359
<v Speaker 2>spots and it's just like another thing to do just

0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.480
<v Speaker 2>to check off Michelin start restaurants. But people that like

0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.120
<v Speaker 2>it could just be getting a bagel or a cinnamon

0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.440
<v Speaker 2>roll from a bakery or like knowing to write bodega

0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:35.600
<v Speaker 2>in New York to get the chop cheese from. But

0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.159
<v Speaker 2>like people that consider that part of their day, I

0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.080
<v Speaker 2>think are like really great people to be around.

0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.120
<v Speaker 1>Favor feeling the restaurants and people like or where they'd

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.480
<v Speaker 1>like to go or what they choose to eat in

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:48.760
<v Speaker 1>a restaurant. I think it tells you a lot about

0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:51.040
<v Speaker 1>a person. And that's why sometimes when you do have

0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.520
<v Speaker 1>to recommend someplace that you would like, you really are thinking, well,

0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.480
<v Speaker 1>that is telling a story about me. This is true.

0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.240
<v Speaker 2>We might have to get some like restaurant therapists. That

0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.760
<v Speaker 2>might be a whole nother lane of practice.

0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:07.440
<v Speaker 3>What do you think about, say, if you eat out

0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.120
<v Speaker 3>and you're with friends and you're trying to break down

0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.520
<v Speaker 3>what that is and what's good about it? Is it

0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.600
<v Speaker 3>the combination of the food that's on the plate, or

0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:18.720
<v Speaker 3>is it a combination of the people or the room

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.280
<v Speaker 3>or the lighting or where you are in the world.

0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.840
<v Speaker 3>You know, because often I think amazing meals are more

0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.520
<v Speaker 3>than just food, aren't they. They're about an atmosphere where

0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.200
<v Speaker 3>people feel like they're welcome. They're sitting on a comfortable

0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.480
<v Speaker 3>chair or but trying to create that setting is also

0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:37.480
<v Speaker 3>part of what makes that experience so good, isn't it.

0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.639
<v Speaker 2>I think the hospitality starts before you walk on the door,

0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.560
<v Speaker 2>like from how do you book the restaurant? Like what's

0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:45.760
<v Speaker 2>the story of how you got there? Were you not

0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.119
<v Speaker 2>able to get a booking? And you just walked up

0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.360
<v Speaker 2>and they took care of you. I have some crazy

0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:52.520
<v Speaker 2>stories that are just we never thought we were going

0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:53.840
<v Speaker 2>to be able to get a table. And I don't

0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:55.480
<v Speaker 2>know if it made the food taste better, but it

0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.200
<v Speaker 2>does elevate the experience. So I think all of those

0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:02.000
<v Speaker 2>things come into place. Flavor is of the utmost importance

0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:04.639
<v Speaker 2>as well, and different people have different priorities. Like Ruthie say,

0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:06.560
<v Speaker 2>you can tell a lot because some people are strictly

0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:08.320
<v Speaker 2>ambianced and they'd be like, oh, the food is greater

0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:09.639
<v Speaker 2>than the place. And then you go and you're like,

0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:11.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know about the food. It's a lot of

0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:13.480
<v Speaker 2>pretty people in the room, but I don't know if

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:14.639
<v Speaker 2>the food is really hidden.

0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:16.320
<v Speaker 1>But then you can have really good food and have

0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.680
<v Speaker 1>an arrogant waiter. You know, that makes you feel small, insignificant.

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:22.840
<v Speaker 1>I always say to the person who answers the phone,

0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.359
<v Speaker 1>to take the booking. This is your first introduction to

0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:27.800
<v Speaker 1>the person who's going to come here. How you answer

0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.560
<v Speaker 1>the phone, how welcoming you sound, how you feel it's

0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:33.640
<v Speaker 1>the most important job, is that receptionist answering your phone

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:35.639
<v Speaker 1>to take a booking? You know, I think it tells

0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.560
<v Speaker 1>you a lot until from that moment when they book

0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:40.560
<v Speaker 1>the table too, not when they've left the table, not

0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:42.639
<v Speaker 1>when they've paid the bill, not when they've kind of

0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:44.760
<v Speaker 1>walked down and say goodbye. It's one they're in their

0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:47.520
<v Speaker 1>car and the door is closed, then they're not yours anymore.

0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:49.760
<v Speaker 1>But up until that moment, they're kind of yours.

0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I think the first impression is essential, like you said,

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.240
<v Speaker 2>like that first barrier, like when you cross the threshold

0:22:56.560 --> 0:23:00.119
<v Speaker 2>into the realm, it should always be warm, welcoming and

0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:00.840
<v Speaker 2>consider it.

0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.120
<v Speaker 1>So tell me about what you're doing now, because you're

0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:20.040
<v Speaker 1>working also with Nike, you're working with big companies. How

0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:22.440
<v Speaker 1>do you marry that with also the work that you're

0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:23.680
<v Speaker 1>doing in the South Bronx.

0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:26.359
<v Speaker 2>So when I think about working with these brands, I

0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:28.359
<v Speaker 2>think of it as not just working with the brands

0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:31.280
<v Speaker 2>for money, but also meeting people where they are. And

0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:33.560
<v Speaker 2>we call it put in the medicine in the kool aid, right.

0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.320
<v Speaker 2>So if I want to talk to teenagers that are

0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:38.880
<v Speaker 2>in high school that are doing certain things, they might

0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.040
<v Speaker 2>not want a verbose explanation of what food does this

0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:44.640
<v Speaker 2>are or why these things impact them or why it's

0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:47.119
<v Speaker 2>a certain type of food available in their neighborhood. But

0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:50.040
<v Speaker 2>when we do a sneaker release with Jordan, that brings

0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:52.000
<v Speaker 2>them into our world to where they might be more

0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:55.200
<v Speaker 2>keen to listen or participate in some of the matters

0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:57.399
<v Speaker 2>that affect them in different ways. So a lot of

0:23:57.400 --> 0:23:59.080
<v Speaker 2>it is like, yeah, we're going to do the work

0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:01.800
<v Speaker 2>and collaborate because it's cool, it's fun. But it's also

0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:04.480
<v Speaker 2>when people associate you with these things that they feel

0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:06.120
<v Speaker 2>like are part of their lives and what they care

0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:08.840
<v Speaker 2>about in a passive way, they might really be able

0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:11.439
<v Speaker 2>to join your community and connect with you deeper. So

0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:13.280
<v Speaker 2>we just try to think about, like like when we

0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:16.040
<v Speaker 2>mentioned earlier, thinking about what do we want to exist

0:24:16.200 --> 0:24:18.200
<v Speaker 2>and how do we create the things that we want

0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:21.199
<v Speaker 2>and layer it with meaning where it's not shallow and

0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:24.520
<v Speaker 2>it's not just about materialism and consumerism. It's like, how

0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:27.160
<v Speaker 2>do we create a new formula for how business should

0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:29.720
<v Speaker 2>be done. Because just like ghetto gas show doesn't exist,

0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:31.960
<v Speaker 2>the River Cafe didn't exists before you dreamt it up.

0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Once you dream it up now with a model, and

0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:36.560
<v Speaker 2>you could keep refining it. But it also inspires and

0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:38.919
<v Speaker 2>it becomes a platform for other things to happen. And

0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:41.359
<v Speaker 2>I think that's how you scale chain that spark thought,

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:43.800
<v Speaker 2>create community, and then it's step by step.

0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Do you think the cultural identity of food? Identifying a

0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:54.000
<v Speaker 1>culture food is that important? Do you think we've passed

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:54.320
<v Speaker 1>that now?

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.000
<v Speaker 2>You know? I think it's always important to site sources

0:24:58.080 --> 0:25:01.280
<v Speaker 2>and pay homage to where thinks come from, especially if

0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:04.120
<v Speaker 2>they're coming from places or voices that have been silenced

0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:06.639
<v Speaker 2>for a very long time. But I think it's also

0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:09.399
<v Speaker 2>important to collaborate and create. I think some of the

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:12.959
<v Speaker 2>most beautiful things are mixes and collisions of culture. And

0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:15.600
<v Speaker 2>when I think about hip hop, Dream loves this because

0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:17.920
<v Speaker 2>she knows I love talking about hip hop. It's a

0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:22.679
<v Speaker 2>collision of breakbeats, jazz samples, different drums, Puerto Rican, Black,

0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:25.439
<v Speaker 2>Jewish people, white people creating thing. I think it's a

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:27.879
<v Speaker 2>beautiful thing that has impacted and changed the world that

0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:28.359
<v Speaker 2>we live in.

0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:33.080
<v Speaker 1>What about your book A Black Power Kitchen, It's about that.

0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:36.960
<v Speaker 2>For us, when we think about black power, you know,

0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:40.120
<v Speaker 2>we think about how long black people have been creating

0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:42.879
<v Speaker 2>value in the world but have been left out of

0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:45.240
<v Speaker 2>the part where they capture their value that they create.

0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:49.280
<v Speaker 2>So for us, being unapologetically black, boisterous, loud about it,

0:25:49.359 --> 0:25:51.760
<v Speaker 2>we try to base it in academic thought, which is

0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:53.760
<v Speaker 2>why I keep people like dream around me to keep

0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:56.040
<v Speaker 2>me honest. It's just important. And I think it's also

0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:58.520
<v Speaker 2>like ghetto gash or it could be a polarizing idea,

0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:01.119
<v Speaker 2>right people see a word like black black power, and

0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:03.960
<v Speaker 2>they could be offended or afraid of it. But for us,

0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:07.359
<v Speaker 2>it's really about leaning into the beautiful things from our ancestors.

0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:10.359
<v Speaker 2>So when I think about like black power, that's a

0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:14.439
<v Speaker 2>phrase coined by Kwame Torre aka Stokely Carmichael, who was

0:26:14.440 --> 0:26:17.280
<v Speaker 2>a revolutionary Yeah from the Bronx, though.

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:22.240
<v Speaker 1>From the Bronx, and he married Mariam mckiva Okay, probably

0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:25.400
<v Speaker 1>in the sixties. I guess she was from maybe Johannesburg.

0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:28.440
<v Speaker 1>She was South African and she had this beautiful, beautiful voice,

0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:31.159
<v Speaker 1>and she could do this thing called the click. We

0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:33.760
<v Speaker 1>all knew her music and then there was Stokely Carmichael,

0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:39.600
<v Speaker 1>who was this great political force of the Black movement

0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:42.760
<v Speaker 1>of the sixties, and then suddenly he married her. Stokely

0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.680
<v Speaker 1>Carmichael was so handsome, and then they married Maria McKay.

0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:48.880
<v Speaker 2>But it was like, wow, it's the bronx, the bronx

0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:51.440
<v Speaker 2>tackle and you know, it gives a little extra charm,

0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:54.320
<v Speaker 2>a little extra riz. Food is a tool for liberation,

0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:56.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, when you think about how lack of access

0:26:56.920 --> 0:27:00.240
<v Speaker 2>to food could often be a tool for oppression, saw

0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:02.439
<v Speaker 2>a tool for liberation, like to tell stories of the

0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:06.840
<v Speaker 2>ancestors of potential futures of love and convening and communion.

0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:09.120
<v Speaker 2>I think the dinner table is the first social network.

0:27:09.160 --> 0:27:11.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, so people break bread, share ideas. It might

0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:14.000
<v Speaker 2>be a little bit of trolling and arguing, but a

0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:17.600
<v Speaker 2>lot of it went down at the table so well.

0:27:17.920 --> 0:27:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Before we say goodbye and we are so happy to

0:27:20.760 --> 0:27:22.399
<v Speaker 1>have your hair, and we'll have to do this again,

0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:25.480
<v Speaker 1>and this is our second time together. We often say

0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:28.600
<v Speaker 1>that food is you know, food is staving off hunger.

0:27:28.800 --> 0:27:32.199
<v Speaker 1>It's for sharing, it's for cultural heritage, as you were

0:27:32.240 --> 0:27:38.040
<v Speaker 1>explaining it, it's for alleviating, for gaining access to choice.

0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:41.840
<v Speaker 1>It's also comfort, and so I suppose my last question

0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:45.399
<v Speaker 1>to you is to ask you if you needed comfort,

0:27:45.680 --> 0:27:47.879
<v Speaker 1>is there a food that you would go for? Or

0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:52.320
<v Speaker 1>would it be that crab caviat and coin bread? It

0:27:52.359 --> 0:27:53.160
<v Speaker 1>could be anything.

0:27:53.680 --> 0:27:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Every day is a different it's a different thing. But

0:27:56.720 --> 0:28:00.840
<v Speaker 2>answer right now, man. That one nut, I'm a retta tart.

0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Were very confident with the pistachio. So I took some

0:28:03.640 --> 0:28:06.000
<v Speaker 2>my pistachio ice cream and put a bit of it

0:28:06.040 --> 0:28:08.120
<v Speaker 2>in my express so like I wake up from from

0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:11.680
<v Speaker 2>the flight, but that, wow, that was extremely confident.

0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you, Thank you, Sean. It was good.

0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:18.440
<v Speaker 2>You really appreciate it.

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:20.560
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. It's lovely to see you. Thank you.

0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:22.280
<v Speaker 2>It's always a pleasure.

0:28:29.400 --> 0:28:32.840
<v Speaker 4>Ruthie's Table Flour is produced by Atami Studios for iHeartRadio.

0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:36.720
<v Speaker 4>It's hosted by Ruthie Rodgers. It's produced by William Lensky.

0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:40.680
<v Speaker 4>Our executive producers are Zad Rodgers and Faith Stewart. Our

0:28:40.680 --> 0:28:45.120
<v Speaker 4>production manager is Caitlin Paramoun. This episode has additional contributions

0:28:45.120 --> 0:28:55.560
<v Speaker 4>by Sean Winer. Special thanks to everyone at the River Cafe.

0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Come Up Up,