1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 1: John Gray and I met last May when You're on Appeal, 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: the global director of Arts for Chanel invited me to 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: be his guest on their Connects podcast. John and I 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: got together and we spoke about family, our cookbooks, ghetto gastro, 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: collaborating with creative partners, food activism, and a lot more. Today, though, 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: the tables are turned and Sean is my guest on 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four. He's just had a lunch at the 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: River Cafe and now with Sean Owen, we're ready to 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. So here you are. 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: When did you get here? Did you just fly in from. 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 2: On fresh off the plane dropping the flame? Fresh from 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: New York? Your birth state? 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: I know it is one hundred miles north. We still 14 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: claim you, you can claim you. That's a good state. 15 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: And what are you doing here? 16 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: I'm here for freezing the one five four Art Fair 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 2: and to see you. I don't want to wait till 18 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: you got to New York. I wanted to come do this. 19 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, to do it here? Well, why don't we start? 20 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: As we're talking that food? Your recipe? So we asked 21 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: you to choose the recipe from one of our twelve cookbooks. 22 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: And you chose I. 23 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: Got the linguini with crab. I don't know how to 24 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: pronounce it with the Italian pronunciation linguini al grancio. Is 25 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: that right? You said you like linguini agraaccio. Linguini with 26 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 2: crab serves ten Two large male crabs about two to 27 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 2: three kilograms, cooked and picked. Three fresh red chilies, finely chopped, 28 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 2: Three handfuls flat leaf parsley finely chopped. Make sure that 29 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 2: knife is sharp, juice of four lemons, three garlic clothes 30 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: ground to a paste, five hundred grams of linguini that 31 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: evo aka extra version olive oil. Put the white and 32 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: brown crab meat in a large bowl. Lookas everybody's coming together. 33 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: White and brown. Add the chili and most of the 34 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: chopped parsley, the lemon, juice and crust garlic, stirring the 35 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: olive oil. This sauce should be quite liquid. Cook them 36 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: linguini and a generous amount of boiling salts of water. 37 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: Then drain and stir into the crab sauce. Serve with 38 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,399 Speaker 2: the remaining finely choked parsley. 39 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so why did you choose this recipe? 40 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: Well, crab is a very meaningful ingredient for me, And 41 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: then when I think about ghetto gastro our signature dish 42 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: involves crab. It's the triple c's corn bread, crab and 43 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: caviare and for me, like growing up in communities that 44 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: are historically underestimated, they tell you things like, oh, the 45 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: people in your community are crabs in a barrel. They 46 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: don't want anybody to succeed or thrive. But you know, 47 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: crabs don't belong in a barrel. So when you think 48 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: about different types of environments that humans should exist in, 49 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: it should not be in environments with scarcity and lack. 50 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: It should be abundance. You know. I think it's enough 51 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: on this plane of for us all to thrive and 52 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: not just have to. 53 00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: Survive and tell us a corn bread yeah, cornbread. 54 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. So this dish like it started with the name 55 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: I want to say, like I feel like in twenty 56 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: and thirteen, we just I was listening to this group 57 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: called Triple Seeds, the Carol City Cartel, and I'm like, yeah, 58 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 2: we should do a dish name Triple Seeds, And I 59 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 2: just started thinking of things that would work with the 60 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: letter C. So corn bread we use as a base 61 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 2: and the dishes had iterations like we've done corn bread 62 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 2: with crim fresh and cucumber, but none of these things 63 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: were just they didn't work like properly. But then we 64 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: were like, oh, let's just make it. Let's make it opulent, 65 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: and then we built the storytelling into it once once 66 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: we found that. So when you think about corn bread, 67 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 2: that's a collaboration between enslaved Africans and indigenous Native Americans, right, 68 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 2: because that's an American ingredient corn. Then you think about 69 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: the crab again with the crabs and a barrel, so 70 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: like having that layered storytelling in the dish. And then 71 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: caviat you know, which often people reference as the pinnacle opulence. 72 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: Like you think caviar, you think truffles. Right, when you 73 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: think something that is expensive, like when you're on a 74 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: date and they're like do you want that supplemental caviar 75 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: or truffle, you look at across the table like take 76 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: it easy. But yeah, So it's something that is not 77 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: necessarily European. It's really like Middle Eastern, you know, when 78 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 2: you think about coming from the castm and see Persia. 79 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 2: Russia also connects to that, so and it's black. So 80 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 2: you wanted to put the black at the top of 81 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: the dish, you know, so to think about how these 82 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: things could stack up to have a narrative. 83 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: So tell us about Ghetto Gastro. 84 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: Well, Ghetto Gastro. It's a collection of individuals from the Bronx. 85 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: We use food as a vehicle to tell stories. So 86 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 2: it's me, my partner Lester, my other partner, Pierre, and 87 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: we started just doing a lot of like creating experiences 88 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: like around the world. Really started doing house parties at 89 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: my house now. I remember my first time having caviar 90 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: was caviar that Lester took from his job at Madison 91 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 2: Square Garden that they had like extra because he was 92 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: the soux chefs at the Delta Suites, so they were 93 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: all these crazy ingredients like far grive and often they 94 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: didn't use them all, so he had a lot of caviar. 95 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: I remember he took some file he made a beautiful 96 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: torch show. I used my food stamps and go to 97 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: Whole Foods to go to the farmers park a gets 98 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 2: some produce and we would host these dinner parties for 99 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: friends at my tiny West Village apartment. And this is 100 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: in twenty twelve, and then from there we just started 101 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: doing projects with different collaborators like brands or art institutions, 102 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: and they wanted the essence, and it's really about highlighting 103 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: the reference material where we come from the Bronx, you know, 104 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 2: looking at hip hop as an exercise and postmodernism like 105 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: a symblige, like taking things that people don't imagine go 106 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: together and creating a new vernaculus. 107 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: When you describe yourself, are you a chef? Are you 108 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: a cook? 109 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 2: I've typically called myself the dishwasher with thin ghetto gas 110 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 2: show because my partners are like farm trained, restaurant trained chefs, 111 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: whereas me, I'm good with the menu in my hand. 112 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,559 Speaker 2: I handle the business in the creative direction. I would 113 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: like to think my palette is incredible just because I've 114 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 2: tasted so many things and I have a deep love 115 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: and knowledge and respect for the people that use their hands. 116 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: I don't have the skill to make it all work 117 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: on the plate, but the concepts are there, so it's 118 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: a great collaboration. 119 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: Do you talk a lot about collective and I was 120 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: wondering if you could tell us what collective is. What 121 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: is the meaning of a collective? 122 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 2: I think convening and being a part of a collective 123 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 2: in community is essential to me because I never really 124 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: took the time to become really good at anything but 125 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 2: assembling people. So I kind of need other people to 126 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: help make things that I want to exist in the world. 127 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 2: So it's kind of been a means of survival for me, 128 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,119 Speaker 2: like a necessity like and it started I think early 129 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 2: when I was really young and most of my friends 130 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: were a lot older than me. So when they drew 131 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: they drew way better, and I was like, I'll never 132 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 2: get this good. But I have a lot of ideas. 133 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: So can I use them as a vessel to help 134 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: create the ideas that are in my brain and look 135 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: the way I want them to look because my hand 136 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: wasn't able to create what I was thinking? 137 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,679 Speaker 1: And is it for profit? Is it it's a business? 138 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: Absolutely? 139 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: And then what about your work in the Bronx. 140 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: The community efforts that we do. I feel like, in 141 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: my opinion, growing up how we grew up and where 142 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: we grew up and still having family members and relatives 143 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: and dear friends that might be living below the poverty 144 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: line or not have certain access. It's not like we 145 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: just escape the reality, you know. So it's unfortunate, but 146 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: it's also I do love the grounds and effect that 147 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: I still live in the community that I grew up in, 148 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 2: you know. So you're dealing with issues of broken homes, incarceration, 149 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: all of these things that come with generations of systemic oppression. 150 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: But for us, we focus on food. Food is our tool, right, 151 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 2: So we work with organizations I like to say, we 152 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: try to empower and provide resources to people that are 153 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 2: actually doing the work. Like we have a platform and 154 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 2: we talk about it, but we work with the Southretta 155 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: family their own Lamorada, which is a hawking restaurant in 156 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: the South Bronx, but they're undocumented. When the pandemic hit, 157 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 2: they just started using the food that they had in 158 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: their pantry and cooking for families and just not charging them. 159 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 2: So we saw that work happen and we're like, oh, 160 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: we need to support this, and then we partnered with 161 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: Rethink Foods, got some money from some brands, use some 162 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: of our own dollars, and just like started feeding people 163 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: and also people that were forgotten about, like people that 164 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: were formerly incarcerated elders that couldn't like walk down from 165 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: Nisha to go get to the soup kitchen, like, so 166 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: delivering it to their door at the height of the 167 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 2: Pandemics and they also have a community garden. So we've 168 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 2: been doing a lot of work with them in The 169 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: Bronx and then some our organization, some stuff with Lauren 170 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: Halseley South Central la some organizations we work with in 171 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: New Orleans, and we try to spread it out. 172 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 1: South Bunks is one of the poorest series in the 173 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: United States. 174 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if it's still accurate, but it 175 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 2: definitely had the poorest congressional district in the country, which 176 00:08:58,320 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: always shocked me because we. 177 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: Think that's amazing that in New York. You think poverty 178 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 1: would be in Appalachia in the South. 179 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: Or Mississippi or something. My ignorance, I was like, all right, 180 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: that has to be somewhere different. But now it's like 181 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: in New York City, what do they say, eighty blocks 182 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: from Tiffany's Like there was a movie that came out 183 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 2: about how different things are eighty blocks from you know, 184 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 2: Fifth Avenue or whatever. 185 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: Access to food is very evident in poorer areas of 186 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: the United States. We're in any country that I remember 187 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: reading about the South Bronx, but you know, if you 188 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: look at the kind of access we have to food, 189 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: in other areas that the access of fresh vegetables in 190 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: the South Bronx was limited. 191 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 2: It's so ironic. This is very true the Bronx in general, 192 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: not just the South Park, but when you talk about 193 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 2: food insecurity or when you talk about poverty, the Bronx 194 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 2: is highlighted. And the thing that's so ironic about the 195 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 2: Bronx is that the largest food distribution center in the 196 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: world of its kinds in the South Bronx. So much 197 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 2: of the food that's in the Bronx leaves, but it 198 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: not just leaves, right. The people in these communities are 199 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: dealing with the effects of the diesel fuel emissions, right, 200 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: So when you look at asthma rates in these neighborhood 201 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: when you look at obesity or different like hypertension, high 202 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 2: blood pressure, all the results that come from lack of 203 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: a healthy diet, the lack of access and how inconvenient 204 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 2: it is to find a spot to get fresh food, 205 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: like Hunts point with the food distribution centers actually one 206 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: of the most food and secure spots probably in the 207 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: city because it's so industrial and it's like broken up. 208 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: But I also think there's a lack of We also 209 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,479 Speaker 2: have to talk about desire right, And I think culturally 210 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: so many of our foods, Like when people think about 211 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 2: Black American food, they think about often what they call 212 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 2: soul food, and I think all food is soulful. But 213 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 2: when we look at the diets that our ancestors had, 214 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: they were like more and more balanced. I think for us, 215 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 2: it's also about creating desires. And I think you create 216 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 2: the desire through the storytelling and also making it compelling 217 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: and culturally relevant. For like vegetables to taste delicious in 218 00:10:59,280 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: a certain way. 219 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: We worked Sean and I for a couple of these. 220 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: We went to Edible school Yard. Do you remember that 221 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: experience of trying to teach children about vegetables, about food 222 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: through having gardens in the school that could be on 223 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: the roof, it could be in the car park, but 224 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: to grow, which she calls the edible school yard. 225 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 3: Do you remember in Shepherd's Bush where I live, I 226 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 3: cook with school there. I like to bring the kids 227 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 3: to the River Cafe, so it's always a Monday in July. 228 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 3: Usually the culmination of the working with them is that 229 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 3: they cook a meal for their parents, the teachers at 230 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: the local community and everyone layser table and they serve 231 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 3: everyone and cook. But I show them around the first 232 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 3: of all, I like hook them in by showing them 233 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 3: the toilets at the River Cafe because I don't know 234 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 3: if you went, but they're very bright and. 235 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: They're like, wow, look at these toilets. You know. 236 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 3: I'm like, they were all like oh, and I'm like, 237 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 3: guess who instagram the picture of themselves? 238 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: They love it. 239 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 3: And then we show them around and there's kids from 240 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 3: diverse area. It's interesting to see the difference of what 241 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 3: they know. Often some of the North African kids know 242 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 3: a lot about hubs and broad beans and things that 243 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 3: other kids are just like eating fish fingers every night. 244 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 3: They ever even see the broad bean. It's nice to 245 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 3: see that played out with the young ones. 246 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 2: I think edible schoolyard is important because when you're able 247 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: to connect where the food comes from and you have 248 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 2: an emotional connection, like if you plant it the seed 249 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 2: tended to a garden that carrot, just like when you 250 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: walk into a restaurant where the hospitality is great, everything's 251 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 2: going to taste better. So it's like, how do we 252 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 2: make it so that knowledge doesn't get left behind in 253 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 2: the school where it could also come into the homes 254 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 2: and be reinforced. And some of the reasons why it's 255 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 2: a lack of access and food in America, it's because 256 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: the government subsidizes cash crops, right, so farmers are less 257 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: inclined to grow fresh vegetables because of shelf life, and 258 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 2: more inclined to grow corn soy. We eat a lot 259 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: of these monsanto crops. It ends up destroying the nitrogen 260 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,359 Speaker 2: the soil because people aren't rotating regularly, so the agriculture 261 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 2: isn't regenerative. And also it drops the cost up of 262 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 2: fresh vegetables. So and when you're looking at calorie to 263 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: calorie and when people are making economic decisions, it's often 264 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 2: not going to be the freshest best option for your health. 265 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: But it is also to do with all of what 266 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: society values, you know, how we feed our children in school, 267 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: how we seek people in hospitals. Really what we value 268 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: as a society in terms of feeding and educating people. 269 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: That's a basic we got to put a profit. It's 270 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: a human right to eat well and to feed up people. 271 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 2: I agree. 272 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 4: I agree. 273 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: The River Cafe is excited to announce the return of 274 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: our Italian Christmas gift boxes, our alternative to the traditional Hamper. 275 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: They bring you all of our favorite ingredients and food 276 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: and home wors from the River Cafe kitchen, the vineyards 277 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: and the designers from all over Italy. They're available to 278 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: pre order now on shop the River Cafe dot co 279 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: dot uk. So you grew up in the South Bronx. 280 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 2: I grew up between East Harlem, the South Bronx and 281 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 2: the North Bronx. I spent the majority of my time 282 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,359 Speaker 2: in the North Bronx. 283 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: And North Bronx is on the way to Connecticut, right, it's. 284 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 2: On the way to Connecticut Westchester upstate. It's like right 285 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: on the border of Westchester County. 286 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and tell me about growing up. What was your 287 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: home like? 288 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: So my childhood was interesting because my mother single parent. 289 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: We lived on the floor in co Op City, which 290 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: is a Mitchell Lama kind of rent control, lower middle 291 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 2: class like housing. They created opportunities for people to get 292 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 2: homes and like have fixed rent and be in a 293 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: beautiful community. My grandmother lived on the same floor as me, 294 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: so it was like a real in My my grandmother 295 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: and my aunt my other car. So it was like 296 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: a firm matriarchal situation. It was that was the only 297 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: male in my family. It was my great grandfather who 298 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: had three daughters, my grandmother being one of them. All 299 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 2: of those daughters except my aunt Sheila, she didn't have children. 300 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 2: They both had two daughters, and then my mother had me. 301 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: So it was like all of these women and then me. 302 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: So even at a young age, I felt like I 303 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: had to take care of things, like I had a 304 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: burden that I just self imposed. Nobody like put pressure 305 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 2: on me. Everybody was doing fine, but I felt like 306 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: I needed to take care of these women that took 307 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 2: care of me. And they're all educator. So I grew 308 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 2: up like with knowledge being important. I always struggled with 309 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 2: my behavior though allegedly. 310 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: Did you feel that you had to take care of 311 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: them food wise as well? Did your mom cook? 312 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: My grandmother's not going to listen to this. My grandmother 313 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 2: wasn't the best cook, which is probably why my mother 314 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 2: went hard to become a great cook. And my mother's 315 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 2: also just a different type of person where it's like 316 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: she gets interested in something and she studies. So my 317 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 2: mother has two culinary degrees, one from the Natural Gramet 318 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: School of Cooking in New York, and she went to 319 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: a special pastry school in Chicago. Whereas me, when I'm 320 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: interested in something, I started business and learned about it 321 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: just from doing the things. But I was able to 322 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: benefit from my mother taking these courses and learning how 323 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: to do the thing, and so yeah, she's a really 324 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: good cook. But my mother often worked during the day 325 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: at a hair salon. She used to wash Lenny Kravitz 326 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 2: and Michael Jackson's hair at this I want to say 327 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: it was John ash Atkinson is a hair salon. She 328 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: worked on the Fifth Avenue. That job exposed to a 329 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 2: different type of eating, so she was going to like 330 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: the French bakery for lunch, or like the Italian spot 331 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: or the Indian curry spot. So naturally I kind of 332 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: inherited that curiosity about food. So she often didn't have 333 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: time to cook because she after work, she would go 334 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: work on her college degree, and then at night it 335 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 2: was just us. She picked me up from my grandmother's 336 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: a babysitter or whatever, and then we'd go out for dinner. 337 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 2: That was like our bonding time. And at this moment, 338 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: I was living in the East Harlem, like one hundred 339 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 2: Street between First and Second and Metro in the projects 340 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: called Metro North. So we go to the upper east 341 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: side off then, and I remember this restaurant called First Walk. 342 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: It was a Cantonese restaurant, and we would then just 343 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: sit there eat, and I remember it was this older woman, 344 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 2: an older Jewish lady. She was a regular too, so 345 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 2: we would we would eat there and see each other 346 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 2: whole time. And I asked her. I was a social kid. 347 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 2: I asked her about you know what she ordered. She's like, oh, yeah, 348 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: I always get the lemon chicken. And in that night, 349 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 2: I ordered the lemon chicken. And I was like, this 350 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 2: is not good. And I told her what she should 351 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: order and why she should order that, and I want 352 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 2: to say it was probably the orange chicken or the 353 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: sessame chicken. And I was like, it has a sweetness, 354 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 2: it comes with the broccoli, fried garlic. And this is 355 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 2: how I was thinking about ingredients and the assemblage of 356 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 2: things coming together to make a dish. And I remember 357 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 2: she tasted it the next time we were there, and 358 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 2: she was like, you know what I ordered, what you 359 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: said I should order. You're such a remarkable boy. And 360 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: I remember the confidence I felt, because you know, your 361 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 2: parents and your family members tell you you're excellent, You're great. 362 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 2: You could be anything you want. But getting that external 363 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: validation gave me such a boosting confidence, and I think 364 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 2: subconsciously I just associated food with that feeling for the 365 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: rest of my life. It took me as an ad 366 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: to like search, spind the block and come back around 367 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 2: to knowing that food is where I find joy and 368 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: the communion with people and all of the things that 369 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 2: food brings. The window in the culture. Even growing up 370 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 2: in the hood in the Bronx, you go to the 371 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 2: Chinese spot and you understand, like, oh, people eat with 372 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: things other than folks and knives. There are chop six 373 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 2: let's learn more about this. And I'm just a super 374 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 2: curious person and I love history and people's stories and 375 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: you know. 376 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 3: So interesting. I think also it's the sort of thing 377 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 3: that even the young guys who work with the there's 378 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 3: people of all ages here. And I always say to 379 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 3: the chefs, there's no shame in wanting to have a 380 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,239 Speaker 3: night off work, because you've always feel like if you're 381 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 3: a chef, you have to work really long hours. There's 382 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 3: no shame in going out and saying I want to 383 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 3: read about food. If I want to go and cook 384 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 3: and cook with friends or go out as any as groups, 385 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 3: and they don't eat in places I imagine that Ruthie frequents, 386 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 3: but they're together and talking, and you know, more than 387 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 3: ever you see people trying to put their phones away, 388 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 3: so they actually communicate over a meal of whatever it is, 389 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 3: and they have a constant dialogue about food. It's really important. 390 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 3: We were really bad people to go out for dinner with, though, 391 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 3: because if I go out with my partner, I try 392 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 3: not to talk too much about the food because it's 393 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 3: probably boring for a not and I'm just like trying 394 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 3: to keep that to myself, so I'm not like this 395 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 3: is like too much soul or that this isn't placed 396 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 3: how I want it. And every day is that conversation 397 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 3: with yourself about what you're eating and where you're eating, 398 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 3: isn't it. 399 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 2: You gotta just pick better friends that want to talk 400 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 2: about her food. Like my friend Dream is sitting here 401 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 2: now and she has a concept called I don't know 402 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 2: if she trademarked this for food Tap, So it's like 403 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 2: it's like knowing people that you'll kind of submit to 404 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 2: with their restaurant recommendation. Right. So she's probably the boss 405 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 2: of most of her people in terms of picking the 406 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 2: spot where we're eating. I'm probably gonna pick what we're ordering, 407 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: she says. I'm her food tap, where she'll trust me 408 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: to make the right judgment on a restaurant or some 409 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 2: place to go. And then I have one person, my 410 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: friend Giorgio from Italy, who I don't want to use 411 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 2: my brain. If I'm in Italy with him, I'm like, yo, Georgia, 412 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 2: whatever you take us, I know it's good. Do the 413 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: thing I don't. I don't want to to think about it. 414 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 2: So it's like being able to bond and like I've 415 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 2: built community. Food is usually the connective tissue, Like if 416 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: we love food, we're going to like have deeper conversation, 417 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 2: We're gonna break bed, we're going to do things and vibe. 418 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 2: And I think also people that care about what they 419 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 2: put into their body and like the ritual of that 420 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 2: and how important that is really have a different value 421 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 2: for life. Like now, people that just have a bunch 422 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 2: of money and want to go to all the fancy 423 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 2: spots and it's just like another thing to do just 424 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 2: to check off Michelin start restaurants. But people that like 425 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 2: it could just be getting a bagel or a cinnamon 426 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 2: roll from a bakery or like knowing to write bodega 427 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 2: in New York to get the chop cheese from. But 428 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 2: like people that consider that part of their day, I 429 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: think are like really great people to be around. 430 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: Favor feeling the restaurants and people like or where they'd 431 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: like to go or what they choose to eat in 432 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: a restaurant. I think it tells you a lot about 433 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: a person. And that's why sometimes when you do have 434 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: to recommend someplace that you would like, you really are thinking, well, 435 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: that is telling a story about me. This is true. 436 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 2: We might have to get some like restaurant therapists. That 437 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 2: might be a whole nother lane of practice. 438 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 3: What do you think about, say, if you eat out 439 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 3: and you're with friends and you're trying to break down 440 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 3: what that is and what's good about it? Is it 441 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 3: the combination of the food that's on the plate, or 442 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 3: is it a combination of the people or the room 443 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 3: or the lighting or where you are in the world. 444 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 3: You know, because often I think amazing meals are more 445 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 3: than just food, aren't they. They're about an atmosphere where 446 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 3: people feel like they're welcome. They're sitting on a comfortable 447 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 3: chair or but trying to create that setting is also 448 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 3: part of what makes that experience so good, isn't it. 449 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 2: I think the hospitality starts before you walk on the door, 450 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: like from how do you book the restaurant? Like what's 451 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: the story of how you got there? Were you not 452 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 2: able to get a booking? And you just walked up 453 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 2: and they took care of you. I have some crazy 454 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 2: stories that are just we never thought we were going 455 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 2: to be able to get a table. And I don't 456 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 2: know if it made the food taste better, but it 457 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 2: does elevate the experience. So I think all of those 458 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 2: things come into place. Flavor is of the utmost importance 459 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 2: as well, and different people have different priorities. Like Ruthie say, 460 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 2: you can tell a lot because some people are strictly 461 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 2: ambianced and they'd be like, oh, the food is greater 462 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 2: than the place. And then you go and you're like, 463 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 2: I don't know about the food. It's a lot of 464 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 2: pretty people in the room, but I don't know if 465 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 2: the food is really hidden. 466 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: But then you can have really good food and have 467 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: an arrogant waiter. You know, that makes you feel small, insignificant. 468 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: I always say to the person who answers the phone, 469 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: to take the booking. This is your first introduction to 470 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: the person who's going to come here. How you answer 471 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: the phone, how welcoming you sound, how you feel it's 472 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: the most important job, is that receptionist answering your phone 473 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: to take a booking? You know, I think it tells 474 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: you a lot until from that moment when they book 475 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: the table too, not when they've left the table, not 476 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: when they've paid the bill, not when they've kind of 477 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: walked down and say goodbye. It's one they're in their 478 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: car and the door is closed, then they're not yours anymore. 479 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: But up until that moment, they're kind of yours. 480 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 2: I think the first impression is essential, like you said, 481 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 2: like that first barrier, like when you cross the threshold 482 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 2: into the realm, it should always be warm, welcoming and 483 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 2: consider it. 484 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: So tell me about what you're doing now, because you're 485 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: working also with Nike, you're working with big companies. How 486 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: do you marry that with also the work that you're 487 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: doing in the South Bronx. 488 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 2: So when I think about working with these brands, I 489 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: think of it as not just working with the brands 490 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 2: for money, but also meeting people where they are. And 491 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 2: we call it put in the medicine in the kool aid, right. 492 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 2: So if I want to talk to teenagers that are 493 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 2: in high school that are doing certain things, they might 494 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 2: not want a verbose explanation of what food does this 495 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 2: are or why these things impact them or why it's 496 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 2: a certain type of food available in their neighborhood. But 497 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 2: when we do a sneaker release with Jordan, that brings 498 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 2: them into our world to where they might be more 499 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 2: keen to listen or participate in some of the matters 500 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 2: that affect them in different ways. So a lot of 501 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 2: it is like, yeah, we're going to do the work 502 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: and collaborate because it's cool, it's fun. But it's also 503 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 2: when people associate you with these things that they feel 504 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 2: like are part of their lives and what they care 505 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 2: about in a passive way, they might really be able 506 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 2: to join your community and connect with you deeper. So 507 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 2: we just try to think about, like like when we 508 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, thinking about what do we want to exist 509 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 2: and how do we create the things that we want 510 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 2: and layer it with meaning where it's not shallow and 511 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 2: it's not just about materialism and consumerism. It's like, how 512 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 2: do we create a new formula for how business should 513 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 2: be done. Because just like ghetto gas show doesn't exist, 514 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 2: the River Cafe didn't exists before you dreamt it up. 515 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 2: Once you dream it up now with a model, and 516 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 2: you could keep refining it. But it also inspires and 517 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 2: it becomes a platform for other things to happen. And 518 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: I think that's how you scale chain that spark thought, 519 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: create community, and then it's step by step. 520 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: Do you think the cultural identity of food? Identifying a 521 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: culture food is that important? Do you think we've passed 522 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: that now? 523 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: You know? I think it's always important to site sources 524 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 2: and pay homage to where thinks come from, especially if 525 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 2: they're coming from places or voices that have been silenced 526 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 2: for a very long time. But I think it's also 527 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 2: important to collaborate and create. I think some of the 528 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,959 Speaker 2: most beautiful things are mixes and collisions of culture. And 529 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 2: when I think about hip hop, Dream loves this because 530 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 2: she knows I love talking about hip hop. It's a 531 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 2: collision of breakbeats, jazz samples, different drums, Puerto Rican, Black, 532 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 2: Jewish people, white people creating thing. I think it's a 533 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 2: beautiful thing that has impacted and changed the world that 534 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 2: we live in. 535 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: What about your book A Black Power Kitchen, It's about that. 536 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: For us, when we think about black power, you know, 537 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 2: we think about how long black people have been creating 538 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 2: value in the world but have been left out of 539 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 2: the part where they capture their value that they create. 540 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: So for us, being unapologetically black, boisterous, loud about it, 541 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: we try to base it in academic thought, which is 542 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 2: why I keep people like dream around me to keep 543 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 2: me honest. It's just important. And I think it's also 544 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: like ghetto gash or it could be a polarizing idea, 545 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 2: right people see a word like black black power, and 546 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 2: they could be offended or afraid of it. But for us, 547 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 2: it's really about leaning into the beautiful things from our ancestors. 548 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 2: So when I think about like black power, that's a 549 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 2: phrase coined by Kwame Torre aka Stokely Carmichael, who was 550 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: a revolutionary Yeah from the Bronx, though. 551 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: From the Bronx, and he married Mariam mckiva Okay, probably 552 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: in the sixties. I guess she was from maybe Johannesburg. 553 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: She was South African and she had this beautiful, beautiful voice, 554 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: and she could do this thing called the click. We 555 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: all knew her music and then there was Stokely Carmichael, 556 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: who was this great political force of the Black movement 557 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: of the sixties, and then suddenly he married her. Stokely 558 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: Carmichael was so handsome, and then they married Maria McKay. 559 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 2: But it was like, wow, it's the bronx, the bronx 560 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 2: tackle and you know, it gives a little extra charm, 561 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 2: a little extra riz. Food is a tool for liberation, 562 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 2: you know, when you think about how lack of access 563 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 2: to food could often be a tool for oppression, saw 564 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 2: a tool for liberation, like to tell stories of the 565 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 2: ancestors of potential futures of love and convening and communion. 566 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 2: I think the dinner table is the first social network. 567 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 2: You know, so people break bread, share ideas. It might 568 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: be a little bit of trolling and arguing, but a 569 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 2: lot of it went down at the table so well. 570 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: Before we say goodbye and we are so happy to 571 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: have your hair, and we'll have to do this again, 572 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: and this is our second time together. We often say 573 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: that food is you know, food is staving off hunger. 574 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: It's for sharing, it's for cultural heritage, as you were 575 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: explaining it, it's for alleviating, for gaining access to choice. 576 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: It's also comfort, and so I suppose my last question 577 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: to you is to ask you if you needed comfort, 578 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: is there a food that you would go for? Or 579 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: would it be that crab caviat and coin bread? It 580 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: could be anything. 581 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 2: Every day is a different it's a different thing. But 582 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 2: answer right now, man. That one nut, I'm a retta tart. 583 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 2: Were very confident with the pistachio. So I took some 584 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 2: my pistachio ice cream and put a bit of it 585 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 2: in my express so like I wake up from from 586 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 2: the flight, but that, wow, that was extremely confident. 587 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Thank you, Sean. It was good. 588 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 2: You really appreciate it. 589 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: Thank you. It's lovely to see you. Thank you. 590 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure. 591 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 4: Ruthie's Table Flour is produced by Atami Studios for iHeartRadio. 592 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 4: It's hosted by Ruthie Rodgers. It's produced by William Lensky. 593 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 4: Our executive producers are Zad Rodgers and Faith Stewart. Our 594 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 4: production manager is Caitlin Paramoun. This episode has additional contributions 595 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 4: by Sean Winer. Special thanks to everyone at the River Cafe. 596 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: Come Up Up,