1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome, It's another episode of the Hunting Collective. 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: I'm Ben O'Brien. As always, it's never you're tired of 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: saying that I've better Brian uh And today we're at 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: the Mediator office here in Bozeman, Montana, and I'm joined 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: by Sam Longer and also driven by Janice Patelis and 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: also Ryan Callahan. All three gentlemen have been appeared on 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: this program before. All three gentlemen worked with me here 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: at Mediator. So this is a little bit of an 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: editorial meeting of sorts where we're going to break out 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: our fancy, spanking, brand new hunting scandal assessment chart. That 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: it was happening in the news here, we felt the 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: need to address it, hopefully. Um In addressing it, we've 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: you know, uncovered some of the issues around the media 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: around hunting and around hunting, how hunting trophy hunting specifically 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: is portrayed, I mean, giving you some perspective on that. Again, 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: we don't have all This is, you know, one of 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: those deals where we don't have all the details and 18 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: on some of the more intricate parts of this scandal, 19 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: but we want to cover the fact that it happened 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: and how it was covered and what we thought I 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: think it means, and you'll be uh certainly can check 22 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 1: for more from our platform about this thing. But without 23 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: further to do, please enjoy these three gentlemen discussing the 24 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: Hunting scandal assessment chart. Hey, everybody, how's it going? Talking 25 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: to the three of you? Said at the table, Oh, 26 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: not to listen the listeners. A little two stuffed after 27 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: two pieces of birthday cakes, sugar snappy. I Um, it's 28 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: it's Steven Rannella's birthday today. Uh, he's forty five, forty 29 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: five years old, big, said the candles on the cake. 30 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: Halfway to ninety. Yeah, halfway to ninety, which is a 31 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: good thing or a bad thing, depending on who you are. 32 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: Steve have an age goal or an expectancy, a life 33 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: expectsily for a meat eater. Have you talked about it? 34 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: Have you talked? It's somewhere up around there, somewhere between 35 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: eight and ninety. I think he feels like he's halfway there, 36 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: all right, Yeah, I mean if I if I make 37 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: it the eight, um, I may consider just walking out 38 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: in the woods. The man. My grandma, she's she's going 39 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: for well over a hundred. She's ninety right now, and 40 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: she's just like, I feel the best I have in 41 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: twenty years. I'm doing great. It's amazing. All right, let 42 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: me ask a question. She drink alcohol. Yeah, she smoked. 43 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: Everybody smoked, and she was an army wife, a nurse, 44 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: and like the smoke was intense. Yeah. My grandmother was 45 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: ninety three when she died. My grandfather was a eighty 46 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: nine around ninety when he died. So I was like 47 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what the what the secret was. 48 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: Never did figure it out though. Yeah, and you know, 49 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: I think your capacity for drink goes way down. Like 50 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: grandma likes to have like a glass of champagne on 51 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: special occasion, a little yeah they call a little nip. Yeah, 52 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: a little little glass beer. Uh. With certain meals, She's like, oh, 53 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: I gotta have a gotta have a beer with this 54 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: um blast wine stuff like that. My grandma likes to 55 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: have a glass of white wine with ice cubes in it. Yeah, yeah, 56 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: do whatever you want. Yeah, my grandmother had. She would 57 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: smoke like a cigarette in the morning and she would 58 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: go out onto there's a little cup always. I found 59 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: one time on the on her porch where she would 60 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: go out and this the same little cup, smoke and 61 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: ash into the cup and then ash put her cigarette 62 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: out in the cup and then once in a while 63 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: wash out the cup. But it was her like little 64 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: that was her tradition. She lived so routines. Maybe something 65 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: to be said for routine something he said, you should 66 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: pick up smoking. Yeah, one a day, keeps the doctor. Now, 67 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: that can't be it because of the tar in your lungs. 68 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: Can't be it. Yeah, there's a lot of studies out 69 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: there that I guess I shouldn't just blanketly say studies. 70 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: There's a lot of studies. So anyways, Steve's halfway dead. Steve, 71 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: do we feel like he lived a good life to 72 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: this point? Or I mean, what do we That are 73 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: funnier to say it though, Like, yeah, so have you 74 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: heard about Ronella. He's he's halfway dead. Looks great when 75 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: you see him, give him a hug. It looks great. 76 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: He needs he seems, you know, he seems a chipper 77 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: about the whole affair. He was able to blow out 78 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: all those candles all by himself. Yeah, he passed out. Yeah, Yeah, 79 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: I'm proud of him. Um, well you know we're here 80 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: two Um, achieve a difficult well, undertake a difficult task, 81 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: or achieve an outcome that will be difficult is to 82 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: determined for the hunting world what um what a scandal 83 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: is whether a certain social media or um news incident 84 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: is a scandal, and then assess what the outcome of 85 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: the scandal should be for the folks involved in it. 86 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: Um cal you want to kind of like give us 87 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: a can you try to give us a brief history 88 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: of the hunting scandal on the internet and what that 89 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: is in your eyes? Not this one in particular, not 90 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: this one in particular, We'll talk about this one in particular, 91 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: scandals in general. Yeah, can you do you remember I'd 92 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: give you no time to prep for this, but did 93 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: you do you remember the first time that you you 94 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: heard about someone a hunter killed an animal legally and 95 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: then there was outrage. You know? The one that really 96 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: like blew up was Kendall Jones I think her name was. 97 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 1: She was I think she was in college at the time, 98 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: and uh, Texas blonde, and she went on a safari 99 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: I think with her dad, that's with her dad, and 100 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,799 Speaker 1: she had her pictures up on social media and people 101 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: just viciously attacked her and um, you know I think 102 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: he was the giraffe one specifically, that's right, yes, yep. Um, 103 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: but you know all you know, legal activity and a 104 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: different country and um. I never really got into the 105 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: details there, but that was like my first like, oh, 106 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: I'll be damned. Um. So basically, I think, if you 107 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: could really to sinctly say it, a hunting scandal is 108 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: when a hunter or a hunting situation makes it into 109 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: the the national news or sometimes beyond national news. Um. 110 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: And is I guess that the situation is is judged 111 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: by the general public. Yes, I mean, Yanni, you want 112 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: to take a crack at it, How would you define 113 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: the modern hunting scandal? Yeah, I think that's about it. 114 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: Someone postive picture innocently enough, and someone else takes it 115 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: and twisted around or you know it takes it out 116 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: of context, puts it in their own little context, and 117 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: then uh turns it into something that's not scandal. Yeah. Yeah, 118 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: it kind of gets used to this, the anti hunting ideology. 119 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: It's kind of taken as a case study for white 120 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: hunters or ship heads and how white hunting should be illegal. 121 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: Sometimes we do see people hunters doing some stupid ship though. Yeah, exactly. Uh, scandals. Yeah, 122 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: that's interesting that you mentioned that. It's something that don't 123 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: that's done legally usually because you're right, like poaching cases, 124 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: they never get any headlines. There was that that operation 125 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: the North Shore. We've been talking about it over coast. 126 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: It's a I haven't seen that covered on CNN. Maybe 127 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen it. 128 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: It hasn't come back to me in that way. You know. 129 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: It's it's something that I think the state of the 130 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: Ohio folks would love to see reported on more. Should 131 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: be Yeah, should be celebrated the work that was done 132 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: there by sho. If everybody agrees, then it's non news. 133 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: It's like, well everybody doesn't like these guys. Yeah, so 134 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: we're not gonna get a bunch of clicks on that. 135 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: That's a good, good point. I remember, I feel like 136 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: I was working at Peterson's Honey Magazine the first time 137 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: we came across one of these um scandals, and it 138 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: was Melissa Bachman, host of a television show on I 139 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: believe would have been with the Sportsman Channel of the 140 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: Outdoor Channel. I believe Sportsman's back then. That was I'm 141 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: looking at the article I wrote now is in that 142 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: I wrote an article called the Truth about Lions Melissa 143 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: Bachman in the Anti Hunting Agenda. UM. Not saying I'm 144 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: very proud of this piece. It's got some facts in there, 145 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: but it also has some hyperbole in rhetoric that I 146 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: have since learned not to include in such such pieces. UM. 147 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: But you know have I have been, you know, for 148 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: probably my whole professional career in the hunting space, dealing 149 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: with or talking about these types of situations where someone 150 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: you know, the The other one that I wrote about 151 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: after this was Corey Nolton and his rhino um where 152 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: you know, they're almost always our death threats involved. I'm 153 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: sure the gentlemen were about to talk about has already 154 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: received some um and the death threats aren't are coming 155 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: from the folks that are anti hunting or animal rights 156 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: who don't like killing, anti hunting, are pro animal rights, 157 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: pro extreme animal not yet not not yes, pro animal rights. UM. 158 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: That's that you know, they say animals are sentient beings 159 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: and deserves to live. Yet yet the folks killing them 160 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: deserve to die? Always a fun, weird irony in there, 161 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: a fun irony to go through pro animal rights, anti 162 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: human rights. Yeah, and I would I would say, like 163 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: I've found or recently like these things are just in 164 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: my opinion, they're a little a little bit just misdirection. 165 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: Like these folks are um sensationalizing something that's that plays 166 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: to a narrative that's already had success. As you said, 167 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: cal like this is something that that these guys know 168 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: we'll get clicked on, they know we'll get shared. It 169 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: had that this narrative is is easy to tie into 170 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: pop culture. It's easy for celebrities to pick up. Um. 171 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: It's just it's no different than posting a picture of 172 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: a puppy on your Instagram feed. You're sure that is? Like, yeah, 173 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: I bet people like something tells me people are gonna 174 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: like this one. And I think that's of course what 175 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: happens here, um pup exploitation, pop splolitation, and this in 176 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: this term lions ploitation. You know it's interesting, Uh speaking 177 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: of lions. It hasn't turned into a scandal, but recently 178 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: my new fees is just cram full of mountain lions stories, 179 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: mountain lions mixing it up everywhere. Do you see awful 180 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: lot today? Yeah? I didn't catch that one. Yeah, they 181 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 1: got another awful lot on trail cam in Arizona. Come 182 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: came in from right where we were, Sonora. That's awesome. Yeah, 183 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: they have a jaguar do that every now and then. 184 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: I think he got whacked, Yeah by a vehicle. M yeah, 185 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: l f A. What do they name? They named the 186 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: jay But they got the boss the five awesolot um 187 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: in the last ten years on trail cams in Arizona. 188 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: Pretty wild. Yeah, but the yeah, the cat. Think it 189 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: does seem even though on the Chinese calendar is the 190 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: year of the pig, we seem to be in the 191 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: year of the cat because there are a lot of 192 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: cats of the cat. But and also think about these, 193 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: like these scandals that we continue to see because it 194 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: seems like the hunting world is becoming so numb to 195 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: them that within our community it's not a deal, Like 196 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: it's less that we feel like we have to defend it. 197 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: We're like, oh, another one, really, Okay, We'll go about 198 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: our day. I'm finishing my sandwich, like I'm not. I 199 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: don't a bunch of people calling in the hunting community, 200 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: calling for reform over legal hunting that has caused these things. 201 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: I think as hunters, we've kind of just because it's 202 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: been happening, you know, for a decade. Well, yeah, it 203 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: will at all. It exists in a weird space because 204 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: most of the most of these scandals we see are 205 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: coming from extremely high dollar international travel hunting, which nine 206 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: percent of American hunters will never engage in. It's just 207 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: not even something that's on people's minds. And so I 208 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: feel like at this point, most most people are just 209 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: just treated as like, well, I don't know, I'm probably 210 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: not going to hunt Africa. I don't really, I don't really, 211 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: I don't really care one way or the other. Well, 212 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 1: there's also I feel like some kind of trick in 213 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: it that you know, now here we are sitting around 214 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: talking about you know, possible um trophy hunting examining. Of 215 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: course that's the know, we wanna examine tough issues. But 216 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: here we are diverted from you know, we're essentially in 217 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: the meat Eater news room. Here, uh, the editorial space, 218 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: and we're diverted from talking about important bills, you know, 219 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: that are supporting public lands and looking at um cases 220 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: like her rare View Wyoming, and looking at the flyway 221 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: and looking at fisheries and and you know, looking at 222 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: conservation issues across the country, were now pulled away into 223 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: in this case, Pakistan to examine something we really know 224 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: nothing about. Um. You know, I have friends that have 225 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: been there and and talk to folks about hunting a 226 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: Pakistan's Cheekistan some of the places in that area of 227 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: the world, But I don't really know anything about it. 228 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: I've never been there. Um. I can imagine what it 229 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: might be like, but but I just don't know. So 230 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: we're pulled, you know, I feel like we're pulled enough 231 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: to at least address it in some short way. And um, 232 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: but man, strange times, st in times is right, I mean, 233 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: definitely important to know that folks have been paying large 234 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: sums of money to go to these exact areas that 235 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: we're talking about today for hundreds of years, specifically to hunt. 236 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: Um uh do. But I guess to Sam's point also, 237 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: it's like we have as a category here on our 238 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: hunting Scandal Assessment chart, the to what extent was the 239 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: individual animal known to the public chart? Um, I've got yeah, 240 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: I've got an interesting Now we should add the field 241 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: on species. I mean, I imagine a lot of people 242 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: who are upset about this have never heard of a 243 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: mark corps prior to and hunters are some of the 244 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: only ones that are aware of the mark orps. To 245 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: what extent do Americans generally recognize this species as a 246 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: lovable creature? It's going to be a low yeah, but 247 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: I mean do we Let's let's quickly, let's quickly explain 248 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: what we're talking about. So we have at meat either 249 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: created under um, under the watchful eye of one Stephen 250 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: ronnella ah, what we're calling the hunting Scandal Assessment Chart, 251 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: And it's a tool to help us reason these very 252 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: confusing quote unquote scandals and determine whether they're really worth 253 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: a ship or not, whether we should be worrying about 254 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: them or not, and um, you know, whether there's any 255 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: existential crises to address. But we have a little little 256 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: paragraph describing what we do here for the folks that 257 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: might end up using it, and it goes a little 258 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: bit like this. I think Sam wrote this correct. Uh. 259 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: It seems that every couple months, the animal rights activists 260 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: of America rain hell down on some unsuspecting hunter over 261 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: perceived wrongness of a kill. As an editorial team, we 262 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: often have a difficult time finding the right way to 263 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: respond to these blow ups. So we decided to create 264 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: this form as a way to separate the bullshit from 265 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: actual Hunter wrongdoing. Please feel free to print this out 266 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: and use with your friends next time some movie star 267 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: declares a social media crusade against one of our fellow hunters. UM, 268 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: well done, Sam. So this is available, It will be 269 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: it will be available online. We're going to put it available, 270 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: put it online, available for folks to print out and 271 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: use as they wish. There's some talent cheek here. Our 272 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: tongues are firmly planted in our cheeks, as you can 273 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: tell by the writing there. But but there's also some 274 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: you know, there's the reality that this is necessary, uh, 275 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: in some way for us to determine like what really 276 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: matters in these situations. Again, I think most hunters are 277 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: just generally apathetic and annoyed by what's happening here. But 278 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: you know, I get when I don't know about you guys, 279 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: when something like this happens, I get more like non 280 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: hunters like my mom will will call or someone will 281 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: call and say, I heard somebody shout at giraffe. What's 282 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,239 Speaker 1: up with that? And they asked me to explain it. 283 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: So at the very least, you know, if it's on 284 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: CNN dot com or Fox News, it's being read by 285 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: a lot of people, so we can at least recognize 286 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: that is annoying. Is that maybe, um, it's something to recognize. 287 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: So Sam, you want to kind of run through the 288 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: first six lines there? But hold, I have we done 289 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: a good enough job of explaining what today's scandal is? Well, 290 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: we'll get there. We're gonna we're gonna do this first. 291 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: We're gonna run through this and set it up and 292 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: come back and we're gonna all fill it out together 293 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: and determine determine where we are. Sam, you want to 294 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: run through kind of the first details. Yeah, the first 295 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: few fields are what happened, location, species, etcetera. Who was involved? 296 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: Dot dot dot? And we're they being a dumbass? Does 297 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: this involve famous people? Was the activity legal? How did 298 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: the photo get out there? What caused the controversy to 299 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 1: gain momentum? So that's what we would fill out for. 300 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: So let's fill this out for our current, uh current 301 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: happening and and put put down our answers, um what happened? Well, 302 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: what happened? An American paid a hundred and ten thousand 303 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: dollars to shoot a marqueurs in Pakistan. Um. This gentleman's 304 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: name was Brian Kinsel Harlan. He was he's a Dallas 305 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: banking executive. UM. He paid what was a record for 306 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: a permit of which there are very few given out. Um. 307 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: This one says in this in this specific conservancy, there 308 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: are three given out. And this is where I'm reading 309 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: a little bit from a paper called dawn paper at 310 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: a Pakistan Um. And two other Americans got those tags 311 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: this year for a very similar prices, one for a 312 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: hundred grand and one for a hundred and five grand. 313 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: So it's very conspicuously going up by five grand per animal. 314 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: And both of those tags were filled within the last 315 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: three weeks. But those two did not generate this level 316 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: of ship storm for for whatever reason. For Okay, so 317 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: location is Um? Where is the area they flew under 318 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: the radar? Yes? Yeah, this is Um in Pakistan. The 319 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,719 Speaker 1: sassy village of Um. Say all this stuff wrong. So 320 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: I apologize to anyone who knows how to these gil 321 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: get gil get gil shit g I L G I T. 322 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: However you would say that and the species is mark Or, 323 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: and mark Or is a type of goaty also known 324 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: as the screw horn goat, and that derives from the 325 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: Persian words mar meaning snake and core meaning eater, snake, 326 00:20:54,720 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: snake eater. Mr Mr Harlan Uh shot a forty one 327 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: inch Mark Corps trophy, which is considered a nice Mark 328 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: Corps of course, UM and Mr Harlan is a banker 329 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: in Dallas. He's a banker in Dallas, so he was involved. 330 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: He has UH to this to my knowledge, is not 331 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: notable in any way other than what we've described. So 332 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: he's a banker, he's obviously well off, and he lives 333 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: in Dallas. He has hunted in Pakistan two other times 334 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: that we're aware of. Again, we may get interrupted his 335 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: podcast by the gentleman, a gentleman that helps set the 336 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: sun up um or a few of his hunts up. 337 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: So if that happens, I'll just put him on speaker 338 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: to answer some of our questions. But I will follow 339 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: up with in an article, maybe an a dentom to 340 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: the podcast some details from this gentleman named Gregg Brownlee, 341 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: who is part of Neil and Brownlee that LLLC. They 342 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: booked some of the hunts for Mr Harlan in the past. 343 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: Uh in Pakistan. And as far as the knowledge that 344 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: we have on the table right now and about the hunter, um, 345 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: we can say that we do not think or I 346 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: do not think he's a dumbass as far as from 347 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: what I've seen. Can I interrupt because I'm still feeling 348 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: like we're getting too far ahead of ourselves because I 349 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: don't even know that this is a scandal yet. It's 350 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: it's that's what we're here to decide. That's kind of 351 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: what we are doing this because someone else is making 352 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: it or saying that, Yeah, I mean, it's it's this 353 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: is this has been on CNN, It's been on major 354 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: news outlets. It's something that's that's uh needs to be 355 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: addressed once. I feel like once it rises to level 356 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: of national news, right for sure, But the national news 357 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: isn't treating it. Didn't describe it the way that you 358 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: just described it. I don't believe. Well, that's what we're 359 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: trying to accomplish with this chart is whether there's you know, 360 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: it was a bad idea and that person should walk 361 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: away from hunting, or if there's nothing to see here. Yeah, 362 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: wasn't the one headline like hunter let me read you 363 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: a few Um, let me read you a few headlines. 364 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: Trophy CNN dot com trophy hunter pays a hundred ten 365 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: thousand dollars to kill and pose with rare mountain goat 366 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: um in it is quoted. They quoted Peter us turfy 367 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: hunter paid a hundred ten thousand dollars to kill a 368 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: rare mountain goat in Pakistan. That's Washington Post. And then 369 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: the Hill American trofey hunter paid a hundred ten thousand 370 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: dollars to kill rare mountain goat in Pakistan. Uh. In 371 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: the CNN piece, they reference a few things that make it, 372 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: in my opinion, rather scandalous. UM. I get to that 373 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: here in a moment, I scrolled down. Goats are gentle individuals, 374 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: not trophies. Animal rights group PETA wrote on Twitter while 375 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: some Pakistani's called for a band on hunting such animals UM. 376 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: And in the past, you know, these types of quote 377 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: unquote scandals have have ended in UM hunting changes and 378 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: different in the places, you know, like Scotland, Canada. In 379 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: different places where these scandals have come from, they changed 380 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: hunting laws and regulations just based on these, you know, 381 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: situations that that could spun up. So they're definitely yawning. 382 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: To answer your question, they're definitely not um reporting on 383 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: it in but they're they're mad because it's a rare animal. 384 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: Uh rare. Like if you if you break down the 385 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: CNN headline again, there's so much fact, so much factor. 386 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: Our job here is, like just Sam just said, it's 387 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: to in the end to say, well, is this something 388 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: to worry about or not in the hunting community? Are 389 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: we like are they? But like we also said that 390 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: the last the other two goats that were killed the 391 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: same goats in the last three weeks, nobody said anything 392 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: and we didn't either talk about it. So obviously it's 393 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: already a scan and I just wanted to like put 394 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: it make sure everybody knows why. Yes, yes, it's it's 395 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: been covered. Yeah, you're right, it's been covered in all 396 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: these these major news outlets, and they're not um covering 397 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: it in a pro hunting way. Uh you know trophy hunting. 398 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: Trophy hunter pays dollars to kill and pose with rare 399 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: mountain goat. I mean, they're like, if you were to 400 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: break that headline down leading with trophy hunter, is that 401 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: word has been obviously weaponized in this format and is 402 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: being used like that in in in this title there, 403 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: you know, why is it relevant that he paid a 404 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: hundred ten thousand dollars? Like, why is that? Why is 405 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: that relevant in this case? Yeah? And why My next 406 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: question was why is posing it makes it seem like 407 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: the only reason he went over there and shot the 408 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: thing was to kill it and to get a picture 409 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: with it to show his friends with rare mountain goat. 410 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: I think that is what they're trying to get out, 411 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: and so there that they're assigning motive to this dude, Yeah, 412 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: without interviewing him, talking to him, talking to somebody from 413 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: the conservancy which he shot at, talking to the person 414 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: that booked it. Um. In fact, I get you know, 415 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: like I said, I got an upcoming interview with the 416 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: person that helped book this hunt and hunts like it. 417 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: And it took me about twenty minutes to figure it out. 418 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: It's not hard, I mean, you know, so obviously here 419 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: there wasn't a whole lot of investigative work done. They 420 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: just picked up here's a photo, here's a rich guy 421 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: with slick back hair that looks the part of the evil, 422 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: you know, Caucasian trophy hunter. And here's an animal that 423 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: that is is truly, it is a rare animal around 424 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: the world. These things aren't running around everywhere, So I 425 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: think that's that's where this all kind of stems from. 426 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: Does that cover it? I think so? Gal Yep, speed 427 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: with the scandal. Yes, sir, you're feeling you feel uncomfortable? Uh? Yeah, 428 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: I mean I'm fairly certain. I know what the outcome 429 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: is gonna be here, But me too, I think I 430 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: don't know. Are you feeling be honest, are you skeptical 431 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: on the they? Are you? Is your skepticism here because 432 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: you don't want to like put any more attention on 433 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: something that you do not feel. We're on station. The 434 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: only thing all is skeptical about is uh. I just 435 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: want to make sure that who's the people listening understand 436 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: what we're talking about, Okay, correct? Yep, I think we're there. 437 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: I think people could probably get a good understanding of 438 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: where we are. We have. Also, was the activity legal, absolutely, 439 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: without question legal. I've read a couple of articles from 440 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: different sources that that UM use the term poaching when 441 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: describing killing this animal. That is not That is factually incorrect. 442 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: He did not poach it. He killed it legally. He 443 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: hunted it and killed it legally. Um, there's no doubt 444 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: about that. Um. How did the photo get out there? Um? 445 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: It was shared on the internet by the hunter and 446 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: I saw a few shared by Neil and brownleie that 447 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: or again the booking agency that guy used to go 448 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: over there and and go hunting. Um what caused the 449 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: controversy to game Momentum, We've kind of already covered that. 450 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: Um it was it was picked up by news outlets 451 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: and again it's in the easy mark for this kind 452 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: of scandal generation for the you know, and we was 453 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: talking with Ronella earlier and he's you know, why is 454 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: it that, like Donald Donald Trump Jr. Is the face 455 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: of this you know, why is he the face of 456 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: in a lot of circles like the face of the 457 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: rich white trophy hunter that travels across the world and 458 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: kills things for high dollars? Like why that face just 459 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: says trophy. But I mean there is like there's a 460 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: certain aesthetic for the for the pet It seems like 461 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: young females and rich white dudes slip back here are 462 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: are targeted in these ways. You know. It seems like 463 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: females get a lot the treatment of it, young ladies 464 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: a lot more harsh than um, just a regular regular hunter. 465 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: I asked them to do it to you if if 466 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: those people are um more apt to post this stuff 467 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: on the on the old Internet, because maybe other groups 468 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: that uh, let's say, young black males that also go 469 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: over there and do some hunting that are well off 470 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: don't post, don't post. Maybe elderly white females. I don't know, 471 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: but whoever it is, looking at the demographics, yeah, exactly, 472 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: if you don't post, then it never gets out there. Well, 473 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: it's this requires a photo. This requires a well, we'll 474 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: call a group and grin requires a trophy photo. Like 475 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: that's part. That's like the main the main deal here. 476 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: If there isn't one of those, it never happened. Um 477 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: in this case there is. In this case there is 478 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:05,479 Speaker 1: a video of it. Um. So I guess that's how 479 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: the controversy gain momentum. So do you feel like everybody 480 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: feel like we've covered like what we're talking about here 481 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: to degrease same? Do you find any other facts out 482 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: there you want to share around Mark Corps or hunting 483 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: in Pakistan or anything like that, so it checks the 484 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: box sorright? What causes controversies to gain momentum to our 485 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: earlier definition of hunting scandal, it was this hunting story 486 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: and picture, we're picked up by national and international news outlets, yes, yep, 487 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: and that has that includes Washington Post, The Hill, and CNN, 488 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: among others, all very well read publications in their own right. 489 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: So yes, national news would qualify for this one. Whether 490 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: that's you know, whether we will decide or try to 491 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: decide whether it is worthy of that kind of coverage. Yeah. 492 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: The only thing I found was that the UM province 493 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: of gil Get Balta, Baltistan apologize for miss Pross. Yeah, 494 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure that was awful. They auctioned off these permits 495 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: uh for the rare animals, starting the bidding at a 496 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars for Marcorps, eight thousand for blue sheep, 497 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: and a hundred thousand for Ibex yep. And I also 498 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: found that of UM those tag fees go to economic 499 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: development in the rural communities where the hunting happens and 500 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: goes to the Wildlife department. That's pretty good. Again, Like 501 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: I would just reiterate that part of the issue with 502 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,239 Speaker 1: these scandals is they have a lot of times they 503 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: happen far away places with different socio economic structures to ours. 504 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,479 Speaker 1: And like I said, people sitting at this table, none 505 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: of us have been to Pakistan, at least that I'm 506 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: aware of. None of us have hunted markorps of any subspecies. 507 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: So it's just it's it's it becomes hard and you 508 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: and you can kind of commiserate with that on some level, 509 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: you know. I've had this conversation with a lot of 510 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: people whenever people try to go on a diet tribe 511 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: about trophy hunting, I'm always like, what do you mean 512 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: by that? What does that mean to you? Like, um, 513 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: Africa always comes into the definition. UM. And I'm sure 514 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: people would like to throw Pakistan in there as well, 515 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: But a lot of folks like to say, like, why 516 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: do you need to why do you need to travel 517 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: over there to go kill this rare animal? What what 518 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: drives that? And people people just really question the motive 519 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: of the hunter more so than they do with you know, 520 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: down home home, down home hunting here in the United States. Yeah, 521 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean it's not h We're not looking at this, 522 00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: um yeah, pragmatically, like what what purpose did it serves? What? 523 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: You know, We're not looking at it like that, We're 524 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: looking at it like is you know, basically the scandal 525 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: comes down to is this fella an asshole or not? 526 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: And is what he's um, you know undertaken here something 527 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: an asshole would do is pretty much what we end 528 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: up we end up looking at um in these in 529 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: these deals. We got what's happening over there, Sam's dog 530 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: Moose is laying on a bear rug inside the podcast 531 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: studio being kind of adorable doing it. So contempt will 532 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: take a quick break here to take some photos for 533 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: the Internet. Hopefully we don't cause a scandal, cause the 534 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: scandal of any kind. So this the first We're ready 535 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: to do our scalable questions. Yeah, so let's let's um, 536 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I've I've found just because I 537 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: think we should, we should consider the other side of things. 538 00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: I found the peta article referencing this deal. It's a 539 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: very short well no it's not, but uh sod from 540 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: Peter dot Org. Another rare animal killed by wealthy American 541 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 1: trophy hunter by Michelle kretz Zer. Kretzer, she says another 542 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: member of an endangered species, not true, has died at 543 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: the hands of a wealthy American trophy hunter. This time 544 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: The victim was a rare astour Markorps mountain goat, the 545 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: National Animal of Pakistan. Texas trophy hunter Bryan Kinsell Harlan 546 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: paid Hundon thus to gun down the animal, who had 547 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: been sitting calmly next to one of his companions in 548 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: Pakistan's Northern Himalayan region. Calmly, calmly. He shouldn't He shouldn't 549 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: have done it, because if the animals calm, we'll only 550 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: shoot him if they're worked up. Harlan can be seen 551 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: posing next to the dead animal and now widely shared photo. 552 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: Um Harlan was quick to spout to spout the hunter's 553 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: favorite line about conservation, but killing an animal to conserve 554 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: the species is as useful as selling cigarettes to cure 555 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: lung can there. As of two thousand eleven, there were 556 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: only about Markhords remaining in the region. They are now 557 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 1: likely there are likely even fewer now, which again against 558 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: there's twice as many now and more than twice as many. 559 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: The International Union for Conservation of Nature places the number 560 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: at fifty seven hundred and fifty four mature animals in 561 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: the wild, which is much more than ten years ago. 562 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: The UH this is just there are threatened by if 563 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: they are threatened by deforestation, military activities, and poaching in 564 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: addition to trophy hunters. Um so it's a watch spread problem. 565 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 1: If Harlan was genuinely interested in conservation of the species, 566 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: he would spend it a hundred ten thousand dollars to 567 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: help secure a protected sanctuary for the animals, not blast 568 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: them away for pleasure as seen him. As reported by CNN, 569 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: trophy huntings purported economic benefits to surrounding communities have been 570 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,919 Speaker 1: found to be exaggerated, are practically non existent. And while 571 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: the vast majority of Americans the post trophy hunting, most 572 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: are interested in eco tourism and the chance to view 573 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: while animals in the national habitats, activities which do not 574 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: do benefit the animal in the community unlike trophy hunting. 575 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: It's time to stop trophy hunters and protect endangered wildlife. 576 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 1: Tell UPS to stop shipping hunters trophies for them immediately, 577 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: and then there's a link to uh, write a letter 578 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: to UPS that that's gonna fix it, to get him 579 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,879 Speaker 1: to stop shoulding him a triphy an So, so, anyway, 580 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: that was my reading of a pet article, all right, 581 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: dactic though, Yeah, well, I think it enough. If we 582 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: were trying to stop something we didn't like, I'd probably 583 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: be one thing that we might try to do. Um, 584 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot in there to to cut up. 585 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: But again, um, this is not the None of this 586 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: is new. You just you just will. All we've done 587 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: is it's it's like mad libs. All we've done is 588 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: changed the characters in the play like it's it's if 589 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't Harlan, it would have been someone else. And 590 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: if it was a hundred ten thousand dollars in the 591 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: Mark Corps, it would have been fifty bucks in a rhino, 592 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: fifty bucks in the elephant. It doesn't really matter. Um, 593 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: you know, the facts don't seem to matter here. They 594 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: they've taken a number from two thousand eleven that makes 595 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: it seems like there's less Mark or than there actually is. 596 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: In fact, what this seems to me is that since 597 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: they've started the community based conservancy over there, that there 598 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: are more Mark Corps. Uh, they're certainly doubled in the 599 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: last eight years. So there's you know, and there's been 600 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: hunting during that time. So the prescription that turvy hunting 601 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: is a problem, it's just not the reality. Whether we 602 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: like Mr Harlan and his activities or not, it's not real. 603 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: And that local community, the management body now has three 604 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: hundred thousand American dollars more than they did yeah prior 605 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: to this, because of the three Americans that came over. Well, 606 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: Peter says that that doesn't go to wildlife concert. It 607 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: says it goes to uh, it's unknown where it goes, 608 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: like it goes to maybe the mafia or something. That's 609 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,760 Speaker 1: what they say. You enjoy how these three American trophy 610 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: hunters are right up there with military activities in Pakistan 611 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: and de and deforestation, deforestation, and there's some serious military 612 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: activities in UH Northern Pakistan and poaching and hunt trophy 613 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: hunting as well. Yeah, I mean there's you know this 614 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: is again if you watch the film Trophy, which I 615 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: believe is on Netflix, so a lot of the similar 616 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: um information is included in that documentary. Um. But the 617 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: funny thing to me is it it's is almost bad 618 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: that they're spending all this money, Like it would it 619 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: be worse if he didn't spend any money at all. 620 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: It would be better, if you would be better. The 621 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: scandals in the scandal's eyes would be better. If he 622 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: didn't spend any money at all. So if it was 623 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: like a ten dollar animal, if he pot the animal, 624 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: if you poached it, well yeah, because then if you 625 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: post it, you just be lumped into the poaching group. 626 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 1: Then you're just that's illegal, and we don't like either 627 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: but paying. But everybody doesn't like you, so we're not 628 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: gonna talk about I think about how much poaching goes 629 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: on of all kinds of crazy rare animals and whatever. 630 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: And again, like I said earlier, poaching story gets no 631 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: love from the from the headline. Did you hear that? 632 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: See that headline yesterday that in uh, the Philippines, they 633 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: just they just intercepted a shipment of like thirty tons 634 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: of pangling scales. WHOA, Okay, so there you go. I'm 635 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: being I'm wrong every now and then. Well, but I 636 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: mean I I found I found that because I follow 637 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: some some pretty out there like news websites that track 638 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: this specific kind of ship. I mean, I don't think 639 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: CNN covered that. No, no, And that's that's like serious 640 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: systemic poaching, multiple millions of dollars. Listen at this point, 641 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,959 Speaker 1: if you google Markhors, Yeah, the Mark ord Wikipedia page 642 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: and then the next thing down is Texas from NBC 643 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,919 Speaker 1: News from two hours ago. Texas businessman pays on hunters 644 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: and that was to kill rare goat in Pakistan. Like 645 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 1: we can continue to go down and um read more 646 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: of these, but I mean, it certainly is not the 647 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: mark or the plight of the Mark ORPS is not 648 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: a national news story. I'm sure of that. I have 649 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: no way to no evidence of like what it's ever 650 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: been covered before. Everything I'm reading is they're doing quite well. 651 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: They've been recently downgraded by the a u c N 652 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 1: from endangered past vulnerable to near threatened, which is just 653 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: above least concern, and it says that their population trend 654 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: is increasing. Again that what PETA doesn't understand what they're 655 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: doing there is they're they're they're quoting at two thousand 656 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 1: eleven number to show how low the population is. But 657 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: what they're not, what they're they didn't realize by that 658 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 1: misleading sentence is that what they're doing is proven. You know. 659 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: The opposite of their point is that if there's fifty 660 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: of them, now there's twenty, and hunting has been allowed 661 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,240 Speaker 1: during that time or at least a portion of that time. 662 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: But I don't think all of that time hunting has 663 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: been allowed. Hunting is I think has only recently been 664 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,879 Speaker 1: within the last like three to five years. I don't 665 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: know the exact I do want to be careful though, 666 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,359 Speaker 1: as far as like the species of concern language though, 667 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: because I'm sure there's some serious milestones in there, from 668 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 1: like yeah, verge of extinction, probable extinction, there's probably some 669 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: real milestones down to all the way down the ladder 670 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:43,240 Speaker 1: two species of concern UM. So near threatened is above 671 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 1: least concern, then it goes vulnerable. So we'll go from 672 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: least concern near threatened is where we're at right now, vulnerable, endangered, 673 00:41:54,320 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: critically endangered, extinct in the wild, extinct. We'll just call 674 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: that extra pated worldwide UM. And I don't I don't 675 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,239 Speaker 1: see the data here, but we are trending in the 676 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:15,359 Speaker 1: Mark Corps world UM in the right direction. Yeah. And 677 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,759 Speaker 1: and here's here's where I always fall on on this 678 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: kind of thing, because I'm conflicted with you know, quote 679 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: unquote trophy hunting. But at the end of the day, 680 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 1: whether Mr Harlan went there with bad intentions or not, 681 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 1: we don't know unless we ask him. Even if we 682 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 1: ask him probably wouldn't tell the truth if he was 683 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: somehow went there with some bad intentions. Um, the result 684 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 1: of his hunt was beneficial to the land on which 685 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: he hunted, Like we can we can say that, I 686 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: can say that honestly and and know that I have 687 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 1: there's factual there's facts to back that up. And and 688 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: the equation to me goes, hunting creates value. Value leads 689 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,840 Speaker 1: to conservation, and conservation leads to the propagation of wild 690 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: game populations, kind of the African model of wildlife conservation. Yeah, 691 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,399 Speaker 1: I mean it's and and and again let me add 692 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: to that that I do feel that some of these 693 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: countries internationally have taken, um, you know, have harvested for 694 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: one of the parts of our hunting culture that's that 695 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: will make them the most money. Right, they have exotic 696 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,320 Speaker 1: animals with big things on their heads. And then they've 697 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 1: harvested the culture here that promotes killing rare things with 698 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,840 Speaker 1: big antlers or horns, and they've said it pay us 699 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: a lot of money for those things. We know it's 700 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 1: you know, supplying demand. Basically, they're supplying the mark orps 701 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: and we're at some level demanding it. And so that's 702 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,359 Speaker 1: also happening, but at regardless of how it's happening, at 703 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 1: the end of the day. There you know, I'm no 704 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:56,799 Speaker 1: mark or expert, but I feel like there's more mark 705 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,919 Speaker 1: ors now than there would have been five years ago. Um. 706 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,879 Speaker 1: And that seems to always kind of be the through 707 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: line of this stuff. And I think another element of 708 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: that that a lot of you know, advocates of this 709 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,359 Speaker 1: wildlife conservation model would point to is because of that 710 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: monetary value, then there's kind of a cultural appreciation and 711 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: a cultural opposition to poaching. Like that's what they always 712 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:28,320 Speaker 1: point to in Africa that if nobody cared about these kudu, 713 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 1: if they're not valuable, then poachers would probably come in 714 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: and kill more of them. And because there is value 715 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: than there's money for for game wardens, there's money for 716 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: you know, people have jobs tracking and supporting hunting efforts, um. 717 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 1: And without that, uh, these animals would likely be poached 718 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: to extinction. I don't find that as compelling as the 719 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: North American model of wildlife conservation, but you know that 720 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: point is often made. Well again, this is again, this 721 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: is like a mr. Actually, nobody's are you know in 722 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: this deal. They're like, you know, in Pakistan, they've got 723 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,800 Speaker 1: some issues they need to figure out. They're using American 724 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: dollars to figure them out. But over here, we got 725 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,280 Speaker 1: it figured. We're good to go. Like our model conservation 726 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 1: is not perfect, but it's the best one there is. 727 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: UM over Pakistan less so, but they're definitely using American 728 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: dollars to as as their way to figure it out. 729 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,960 Speaker 1: UM because and in this case what they most of 730 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: the Middle East and in Asia and all over the world, UM, 731 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 1: they call those things community based conservancies. And what they 732 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: mean by community based conservancies is, uh, the community gets 733 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,520 Speaker 1: together and says we'd like to value these animals at 734 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 1: a certain number. You know, a lot of times they'll 735 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 1: have in this case, I think they have an auction 736 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,680 Speaker 1: for a certain number of attacks and they'll and this 737 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 1: happened to me when I hunt into Pall. They they 738 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 1: they auction off a certain number of tags for an area, 739 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: a certain designated area where you can hunt these animals, 740 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: and then select a community or subset of communities where 741 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 1: the the benefit would then go to. So that but 742 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,240 Speaker 1: the community has has impetus to care for the animal 743 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: because the animal is now brought monetary value back to 744 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: to that community. So that's what they call a community 745 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,439 Speaker 1: based and servicy and most of the time what they'll 746 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: say is like these animals because they don't have value 747 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 1: in these places, are um seen as you know, I 748 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: guess a nuisance would maybe be a good way to 749 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: put it, at least a competition for livestock um or 750 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: a quick source of food to be poached, so that 751 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: that's where that comes from. And again, man, you guys 752 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: can all chime in, um, but I'm a little conflicted. 753 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,440 Speaker 1: I feel like it's you know, again, it works. What 754 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 1: is it the way? Is it the perfect way to 755 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: do it? No? Not my opinion. Most several things I've 756 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,279 Speaker 1: read have said that by and large, hunting from our 757 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: corps is not legal in Pakistan. It's only under this 758 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: new paradigm where they auction off a bunch of a 759 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 1: couple tags for an insane amount of money. But locals 760 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:13,239 Speaker 1: cannot hunt these animals, which is a little bit bothersome 761 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: to me, because you know, we're we're so deeply invested 762 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,880 Speaker 1: in the North American model where wildlife is the property 763 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:24,760 Speaker 1: of the people, managed by the state for the benefit 764 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,640 Speaker 1: of the people. And what you're doing when you buy 765 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:33,399 Speaker 1: a hunting license is purchasing the opportunity to claim one 766 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 1: specific animal to you know, buy it from the from 767 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,719 Speaker 1: the you know, the American citizens who own it, and 768 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: it's managed for buying large manage for opportunity that people 769 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: in the local communities are the ones who get to 770 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,960 Speaker 1: have the most opportunity to utilize that resource. And you 771 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: don't see that exist in Africa or in you know, Pakistan, 772 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 1: other international hunting situations. Yep, um, yeah, I agree with that. 773 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,920 Speaker 1: Like you said, again, it's works, but it seems like 774 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: a quite the band aid for the problem. I mean, 775 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,040 Speaker 1: we started we had a problem in this country at 776 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 1: the third of the century, late eighteen hundreds and early 777 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,359 Speaker 1: n and we prescribed a solution and it wasn't this one, 778 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,800 Speaker 1: you know, and we did a lot a lot of 779 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: the local critter population on the premise of depleting competition 780 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,360 Speaker 1: for livestock. But I do think we're gonna find a 781 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,799 Speaker 1: lot as to why did the controversy gay momentum In 782 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 1: the first question on the sliding scale, let's get so, 783 00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,919 Speaker 1: let's let's explain the scale, because the scale is something 784 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,800 Speaker 1: we debated internally whether we would even include the scale 785 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: or whether we needed the scale or whether the scale 786 00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 1: mattered at all, um, or whether it was fun or 787 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: just kind of like a damaging thing for the actual 788 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,600 Speaker 1: person was talking about. But we'll go with the scale. 789 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,240 Speaker 1: And if the feedback is that rassholes for having a scale, 790 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,360 Speaker 1: then maybe we'll get rid of it. But we're concluded 791 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,839 Speaker 1: for now. The scale is there are one, five, one 792 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,239 Speaker 1: to ten scales and those scales would add up to 793 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:16,280 Speaker 1: a total score possible score of fifty. And we've added 794 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,800 Speaker 1: of the final score, we've we we have uh, five 795 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,399 Speaker 1: different ratings that go if you score from zero to ten, 796 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,560 Speaker 1: from eleven to thirty and so and so forth. Um. 797 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: And we'll tell you about exactly what those things are 798 00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,319 Speaker 1: at the end. But we're just gonna go through this 799 00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:38,399 Speaker 1: and score this particular event. See what's up with this, mom, 800 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,560 Speaker 1: this thing? Uh? To what extent was the individual animal 801 00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,960 Speaker 1: known to the public? Um, one is very not known 802 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,319 Speaker 1: at all and ten is famous. I give it him 803 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:55,239 Speaker 1: one solidly on one cal a one. We will go 804 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,799 Speaker 1: with one. Yeah, clarify this can be seen in two ways. 805 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,520 Speaker 1: To what extent was the individual animal known to the 806 00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,960 Speaker 1: public species wise, I say Mark corps to the general 807 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:12,800 Speaker 1: public would be a one and does this individual animal? 808 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,800 Speaker 1: Is this actual individual animal known and named and famous? Also? 809 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 1: I want correct? Yeah, And I was talking to Ronell 810 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,160 Speaker 1: about this earlier and he said, you know, he's like, 811 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,520 Speaker 1: make sure to make the point that in this in 812 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,320 Speaker 1: this case, a one and a ten are both used 813 00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,640 Speaker 1: by the media as a as a negative. If it 814 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,320 Speaker 1: was well known, if it's got a name and a collar, 815 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:37,799 Speaker 1: it's a negative because you killed an animal we all 816 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,720 Speaker 1: know and love. And if it's a one, it's very rare, 817 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,400 Speaker 1: and it's a negative because you've killed something that's very 818 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,480 Speaker 1: nobody knew about. Ye. Nobody knew about it, and that's 819 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,960 Speaker 1: why it's bad. Or everyone knew about it, and that's why. 820 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,600 Speaker 1: And that's what I see a lot. It's like, oh 821 00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,200 Speaker 1: my gosh, I've never seen anything like that that can't 822 00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,960 Speaker 1: be legal. Yeah, yep, Oh my god. Rhinos. Shooting a 823 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,279 Speaker 1: rhino can't be legal because it's a rhino. When it 824 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,480 Speaker 1: seems because it's on an animal cracker, I've never seen one. Um, 825 00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,040 Speaker 1: so we're we're silently on a one there, and I 826 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,320 Speaker 1: think probably rightly so. Um, how imperiled is the species 827 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,279 Speaker 1: that was killed? This will be an interesting one one 828 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,759 Speaker 1: being not imperiled at all. Same man, white tailed deer 829 00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: at ten being you know, likely endangered or in that scale, 830 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:26,800 Speaker 1: probably not extrapated because we'd have to be able to 831 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:31,319 Speaker 1: hunt it, but would be near in danger. Mint. That's 832 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,959 Speaker 1: the word, Yanni, give us a give us your vote 833 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:39,960 Speaker 1: one to ten. Um. Well, I would say that we 834 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,400 Speaker 1: found out on the scale that it's it's it's in 835 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:49,080 Speaker 1: near threatened. Um. The only other one that's less is 836 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,640 Speaker 1: least concerned. Then it just jumps off the list completely. 837 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. I would give it a count ten. 838 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:03,960 Speaker 1: Ten is most imperial, Yes, ten. I mean, if we're 839 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,520 Speaker 1: going off that scale that we looked at, the International 840 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:13,359 Speaker 1: Wildlife Scale, ten would be extrapated from critically endangered, Okay, right, yeah, 841 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:15,879 Speaker 1: because if it was extra pay you wouldn't have anything 842 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,400 Speaker 1: to shoot at at all. Yeah. So I'm gonna give 843 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,680 Speaker 1: it like a three, three, four, I think. Okay, when 844 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,439 Speaker 1: I fill this out earlier, I put it out of four. Yeah, 845 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,759 Speaker 1: I'm I'm going off that scale. I'm gonna say it's 846 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,880 Speaker 1: a three and a half. I would probably go five 847 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:34,879 Speaker 1: just to make it easy for us, and we'll say four. 848 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,320 Speaker 1: It's kind of in the middle of where we all ended. Okay, four, 849 00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,759 Speaker 1: so we're up to five. Who has a pens? We're 850 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:47,080 Speaker 1: actually keeping track here, digital age bro. We have a 851 00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,200 Speaker 1: we have a printed out piece of paper. We'll call 852 00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,480 Speaker 1: for a We do all have printed out piece of paper. Um, 853 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,399 Speaker 1: knock on that window. We're gonna get somebody to bring 854 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,880 Speaker 1: a pen in. Okay, I'll knock on that. Give it that. 855 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,319 Speaker 1: I think we can. I think we'd probably keep it. Nine, 856 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,719 Speaker 1: We can't add I got it all he's got, he's got. 857 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:10,759 Speaker 1: Next on the sliding scale is to what extent do 858 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:16,640 Speaker 1: Americans generally recognize this species as a lovable Creature's gotta 859 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,680 Speaker 1: be a one? Yeah, I mean it doesn't even look 860 00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:23,040 Speaker 1: that lovable. I've never seen it as a cartoon. I 861 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,160 Speaker 1: don't think it'd be very fun to cuddle with. No 862 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,080 Speaker 1: goats are typically associated with satanic rituals and the devil. 863 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:34,040 Speaker 1: Good point, cal it's gonna be a one based on 864 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:39,880 Speaker 1: the cuddle the cuddle scale, the cuddle scale. Um so 865 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,200 Speaker 1: what so one? We'll go with one. That means we 866 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,440 Speaker 1: have six total and we only have two left to go. 867 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,400 Speaker 1: So it's not looking um good for the scandal here. 868 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,840 Speaker 1: How offensive was the offending photograph or other media, the 869 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,759 Speaker 1: offending photographs, so we can look at the offending friend 870 00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,520 Speaker 1: and we have a video. Is well, we should we should, 871 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,799 Speaker 1: we should definitely watch the video. I was gonna say, 872 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,960 Speaker 1: do we lump the video in? Yes, I think it 873 00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,239 Speaker 1: has that. So it turns let's let's watch the video 874 00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:07,960 Speaker 1: and we'll get a little play by play on the video. 875 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:12,840 Speaker 1: So we'll say the offending photograph or associated media, associated media, 876 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,120 Speaker 1: because it could be who knows a flip book, you 877 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,360 Speaker 1: never know. We're gonna watch the video. We'll describe to 878 00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,080 Speaker 1: you what's going on. Of course, you know, we'll share 879 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,360 Speaker 1: share this allans. So it starts with a let do 880 00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,239 Speaker 1: with the he's going up the hill, has no pack on. 881 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,319 Speaker 1: These guys pulling him up the cliff. Yes, guys help him. 882 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,600 Speaker 1: He's definitely struggling. It's like a steep nasty So it's 883 00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,359 Speaker 1: a slow motion shot of the bullet impacting somewhere behind 884 00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,880 Speaker 1: the shoulder. They're dragging up a hill to pose the photo. 885 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:47,120 Speaker 1: And then there's a bunch of locals cheering around the dead. Yeah, 886 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,719 Speaker 1: a good number of them there. Uh. I can't say 887 00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,600 Speaker 1: it's a very flattering video. It's not very flattering video, 888 00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,400 Speaker 1: but you know the photo itself. I'm not seeing any blood. 889 00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,279 Speaker 1: I don't see a tongue lalling out. If we had 890 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:07,640 Speaker 1: Meat Eater shot that same video, though, Johannae tell us 891 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,480 Speaker 1: our Meat Eater producer here, that would have been like 892 00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:19,040 Speaker 1: a very engaging, romantic scene, don't you think. I don't 893 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 1: know if there's nothing in there that really qualifies as 894 00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,920 Speaker 1: a scene in my world because there's no real scenes. 895 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,439 Speaker 1: It's like very clippy and fast, like a montage. It's 896 00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,719 Speaker 1: like compressing what looks to be like probably four to 897 00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,920 Speaker 1: five hours into what is that ten seconds long? Thirty 898 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:42,880 Speaker 1: seconds long? Um So I don't know, I mean you 899 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,399 Speaker 1: just yeah. That is the problem with when you when 900 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:49,319 Speaker 1: you put something out that's so quick, is that there 901 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,080 Speaker 1: is no context and so everything can be taken out 902 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,120 Speaker 1: and so what they make it turn. What it looks 903 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,359 Speaker 1: like here is that he jumps out of the car, 904 00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,520 Speaker 1: he jumps up to boulders, he lays down over his pack. 905 00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,240 Speaker 1: It takes a shot, and the shot moving slow motion, 906 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,759 Speaker 1: and the next thing you know, he's posing with his 907 00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:12,000 Speaker 1: nice trophy and actuality. What happened is it probably took 908 00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,319 Speaker 1: the dude four days to get to this part of 909 00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:19,759 Speaker 1: the world. Who knows what kind of environment he then 910 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,600 Speaker 1: lived and slept in for who knows how many days 911 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: because we don't know the full story. Um, but it 912 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,200 Speaker 1: looks rough and dusty. I don't know how many days 913 00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,640 Speaker 1: they hunted for this animal. I don't know how many 914 00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,640 Speaker 1: sunsets and sunrises he enjoyed. I don't know how how 915 00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,040 Speaker 1: what kind of relationships he built with all these people 916 00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,560 Speaker 1: that he was out hunting with. Um, there's a lot 917 00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,759 Speaker 1: there that we have no idea about. But again, when 918 00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:46,440 Speaker 1: it's compressing the thirty seconds, Um, yeah, it looks uh so, 919 00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,319 Speaker 1: I would say, really the only thing but from my point, 920 00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,120 Speaker 1: if you're going the only thing that looks sort of 921 00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,520 Speaker 1: offensive or offending there is that they like everybody wants 922 00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,880 Speaker 1: to put the freaking shot in the slow motion and 923 00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,880 Speaker 1: see the bullet impact. Like who gives a shit about 924 00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:05,359 Speaker 1: that anymore? It's like, I'm sorry, I just don't get 925 00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,880 Speaker 1: my jolly's off of watching that, like the bullet impact 926 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,720 Speaker 1: and seeing that shock wave go through uh, the animal's bodies. 927 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,240 Speaker 1: It's not good for me. And if I don't really 928 00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,400 Speaker 1: like the look of that, then you can only imagine 929 00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,480 Speaker 1: what not anties. But even non hunters think when they 930 00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 1: see that point. Well, I'm saying, this freeze frame of 931 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,440 Speaker 1: the of the grip and grin and just the country 932 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,919 Speaker 1: behind him looks staggering, and I'm like, why, why can't 933 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,440 Speaker 1: you do just a quick pan across that. I want 934 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,200 Speaker 1: to see what those mountains I went to. It's a 935 00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,080 Speaker 1: new pal and hunted animal that no one will know about. 936 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,800 Speaker 1: And we made like an eight to ten minute black 937 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:48,320 Speaker 1: and white film and that showed all like, never showed 938 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,000 Speaker 1: the shot, never showed we we showed the animal dead 939 00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,400 Speaker 1: and the animal being eaten. But it was a tiny 940 00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:58,080 Speaker 1: little part of of the film. The film is about 941 00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:03,480 Speaker 1: people in place and then um and so there's nothing 942 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,400 Speaker 1: to separate this dude out of the fact that he's 943 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:10,280 Speaker 1: a rich banker who made a thirty second video with me. Um. 944 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,960 Speaker 1: When I went to Nepal the hunt blue Sheet, it's 945 00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:17,800 Speaker 1: it's the same, you guys are pretty similar adventure. So 946 00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,520 Speaker 1: how offensive was the offensive photograph or a company media? 947 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,160 Speaker 1: I would if I can go first, I'm gonna only 948 00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:30,600 Speaker 1: give it a I would give it like a one, 949 00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,200 Speaker 1: except except for the slow motion bullshit. Because of that, 950 00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:39,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna bump it up to a four. Four. Nice. 951 00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:43,600 Speaker 1: Should we bring in a non hunter and have them 952 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,720 Speaker 1: yeah there right now? Because well, you guys keep going, 953 00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,680 Speaker 1: I'll go grab a non hunter and we'll show them 954 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,760 Speaker 1: this and see what their reaction is. Okay, continue, given 955 00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,520 Speaker 1: your number, I want, I'll go find it. How offensive 956 00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,240 Speaker 1: was that little video and the grip and grin you 957 00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,440 Speaker 1: know you made? You made some good points and it 958 00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:04,560 Speaker 1: kind of kind of changed my mind a little bit. 959 00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,040 Speaker 1: I did not find it terribly offensive. I found it 960 00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:16,120 Speaker 1: to be low quality and slightly tasteless, but not, you know, 961 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:25,880 Speaker 1: grossly offensive. But you're right, the gratuitous SloMo is a 962 00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:32,400 Speaker 1: little annoying. I'd probably give it a three Ryan callheah, 963 00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I just I can't even get that high 964 00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:44,320 Speaker 1: up on the scale. I I am going to withhold 965 00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:49,439 Speaker 1: my judgment until our special guests ways in. Is that 966 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,400 Speaker 1: just because I don't want to influence anything? Don't influence 967 00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,360 Speaker 1: Kylie Kyle, you gotta pull up your microphones. Is a 968 00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:58,480 Speaker 1: little closer to your mouth. I can hear you joining 969 00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:03,880 Speaker 1: us now? Is our what's your title now? Executive assistant? 970 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 1: Pretty much office badass that just takes care of everyone's 971 01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,919 Speaker 1: problems around here. We wouldn't build a function without her 972 01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:17,160 Speaker 1: Kyle machine, ah, who you don't hunt at all? So 973 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:22,240 Speaker 1: I have? Um, I have not, but I do. I've 974 01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,960 Speaker 1: wanted to, and I actually am ready to go. I 975 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,600 Speaker 1: just have not actually done it yet. So you haven't 976 01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,600 Speaker 1: gone on your first hunting trip yet yet. It seems 977 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:34,680 Speaker 1: like you're relatively cool with it, being that you're employed here. Yeah, 978 01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:37,840 Speaker 1: my my whole husband's side, everyone, my friends. I grew 979 01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,480 Speaker 1: up with it. I just I personally haven't done it. 980 01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,480 Speaker 1: It was my goal to be thirty into it, and 981 01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,320 Speaker 1: then that has gone and passed. So so how old 982 01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:51,760 Speaker 1: are you? All right? So we're gonna show Kylie this 983 01:00:52,040 --> 01:01:21,560 Speaker 1: video and then get her immediate reaction. M y all right? 984 01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,120 Speaker 1: What do you think was that was? Was there anything 985 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:29,400 Speaker 1: offensive in that video? Wasn't offensive at all? You gotta 986 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:34,560 Speaker 1: scale here with one being absolutely un no way, shape 987 01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:40,880 Speaker 1: or form offensive and ten being I am horrified that 988 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:45,320 Speaker 1: that ever made it into the public purview. Yes, I 989 01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,960 Speaker 1: feel like vomiting. No, but I'm also to me, that's 990 01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,760 Speaker 1: also hunting. I think I could see where people would see, 991 01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,520 Speaker 1: like when he held up the creature. I think that's 992 01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,320 Speaker 1: where people are like, oh my gosh, it's a it's 993 01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,160 Speaker 1: a pet, it's an animal. For me, that's just hunting. 994 01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,400 Speaker 1: That's exciting you. You got something, you hunted it. Um 995 01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,160 Speaker 1: for me, No, I don't think that's so the way 996 01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:09,479 Speaker 1: that they portrayed it in that little thirty second video. 997 01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,040 Speaker 1: Nothing about the video was offensive to you. So are 998 01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,520 Speaker 1: you already normal? Alright? Pick a number for us, please? 999 01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:21,800 Speaker 1: For ten being the most offensive? Oh yeah, I would 1000 01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,440 Speaker 1: say maybe like two, just because I see that. I 1001 01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:29,480 Speaker 1: can see where people would have an issue. Got it. 1002 01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna jump in here and say one because this 1003 01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:41,240 Speaker 1: is from my perspective. Thanks Kylie, Thank you wonderful of offensiveness. 1004 01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:48,920 Speaker 1: And I do not I do not feel offended. I 1005 01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:53,960 Speaker 1: did not feel offended. I I too don't feel offended. 1006 01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:57,000 Speaker 1: We should have a field here for How offensive was 1007 01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:00,560 Speaker 1: the mainstream news coverage? Yeah, I mean that's that needs 1008 01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:05,360 Speaker 1: to be a part of it. Um. How offensive was 1009 01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:08,160 Speaker 1: the offending photograph? For me? I'm kind of with Kylie 1010 01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,040 Speaker 1: on this one. I'd give it a three if I 1011 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,000 Speaker 1: was going to give it one. So what what part 1012 01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:17,000 Speaker 1: of it was just a little bit offensive? The video, 1013 01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,480 Speaker 1: I mean the slow like the it the video plays 1014 01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,400 Speaker 1: into all the stereotypes to me. So that's I think 1015 01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,000 Speaker 1: the awareness level of the hunter and the whoever made 1016 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:31,439 Speaker 1: the video was low because it's it's it doesn't show 1017 01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,320 Speaker 1: any of the appreciation for the animal, the appreciation for 1018 01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,840 Speaker 1: the land. That doesn't show any appreciation for the death 1019 01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,360 Speaker 1: of the animal and how serious that thing is. It 1020 01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:43,160 Speaker 1: shows a dude shooting an animal at dying and slow 1021 01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:47,120 Speaker 1: motion with a juvenile fucking animal standing right beside it, 1022 01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:49,840 Speaker 1: which whatever it is, what it is. Um, it was 1023 01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,480 Speaker 1: an old, mature animal. So I guess that really doesn't matter. 1024 01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,360 Speaker 1: But I mean that's how goats live, Like Rocky Mountain, 1025 01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:00,720 Speaker 1: the old see an old billy with brand new you. Yeah, 1026 01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,240 Speaker 1: but again I don't think that doesn't matter. Hanging out, 1027 01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:10,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It's hunting. He'll ship that has, you know, offspring. Um, 1028 01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,760 Speaker 1: So I think there's just defensive. Part to me is 1029 01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,440 Speaker 1: there's a little bit like like the self awareness of 1030 01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,360 Speaker 1: this guy doing this, whomever edited to the video is 1031 01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,040 Speaker 1: is pretty low. Like it shows high the first thing 1032 01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,760 Speaker 1: after the shot is a high five. And not that 1033 01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,800 Speaker 1: you have to cry, but this cut really does play 1034 01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:33,680 Speaker 1: into the hands of the stereotypers out there, I believe. So, Janice, 1035 01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,920 Speaker 1: you were four, Sam, you were three. Yes, Uh myself, 1036 01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:43,200 Speaker 1: I was a one. Sticking to it, Kylie. We're gonna 1037 01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,040 Speaker 1: scale with Kylie on this one man. She said to 1038 01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:51,680 Speaker 1: band you said three yeah, so um three right, yeah, 1039 01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:55,440 Speaker 1: we can go three. Three is good. Um, so right 1040 01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:59,000 Speaker 1: now we're really low. We went to what extent was 1041 01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:01,040 Speaker 1: the individually un known to the public. We said one, 1042 01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:04,480 Speaker 1: I think we're at nine. Yeah, how improwable the species 1043 01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:05,919 Speaker 1: that was killed? We ended up a lout of four 1044 01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:11,000 Speaker 1: there correct, correct, five to step the marriageineralized species not one, 1045 01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:15,400 Speaker 1: So that's five and three is six. Three is nine. 1046 01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:19,840 Speaker 1: You're correct, So far we're at nine. Um. The last, 1047 01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:26,040 Speaker 1: but not least in our ratings is how aware was 1048 01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:30,280 Speaker 1: the hunter that this might that this might create a 1049 01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:35,320 Speaker 1: giant ship storm? Um? This is an impossible one, not 1050 01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:40,240 Speaker 1: having talked to the hunter to know. But we can. 1051 01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,200 Speaker 1: We can take a look at the evidence and the 1052 01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:47,480 Speaker 1: empirical evidence and figure out what we think. Um. And again, 1053 01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:49,640 Speaker 1: like there was some examples, what was the example saying 1054 01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:51,880 Speaker 1: that we used of somebody that was clearly aware that 1055 01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,240 Speaker 1: they were the dude was hunting a named critter and 1056 01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,240 Speaker 1: said I'm going to go pedals to There was a 1057 01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:01,920 Speaker 1: hunter hunting and was that New Jersey somewhere on the 1058 01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,720 Speaker 1: East coast pedals a bear And there's a guy on 1059 01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:07,040 Speaker 1: in some message boards and on the internet social media 1060 01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,600 Speaker 1: saying I'm gonna kill pedals. I'm gonna go get pedals 1061 01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:11,440 Speaker 1: Like this dude would have been a ten. He was 1062 01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:13,840 Speaker 1: aware and wanted to create a giant ship storm and 1063 01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,120 Speaker 1: was throwing the middle finger to everybody that love pedals. 1064 01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,000 Speaker 1: So that would kind of be the ten. And the 1065 01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:21,480 Speaker 1: one in this case would be the guy. I was 1066 01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:26,160 Speaker 1: just doing illegal hunting activity and um was going about 1067 01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,640 Speaker 1: his business and had no knowledge that it would add 1068 01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,520 Speaker 1: any possibility to create any kind of media backlash as 1069 01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,400 Speaker 1: this one has. Yanni get to kick us off on 1070 01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,600 Speaker 1: this one. Um, I want to give him a one, 1071 01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:44,360 Speaker 1: but I just thought better of it because these days, 1072 01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,920 Speaker 1: with our the current state of media, they if you 1073 01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:55,640 Speaker 1: go overseas on a uh, very expensive hunt for some 1074 01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:59,439 Speaker 1: animal that most people don't know about, and you put 1075 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,200 Speaker 1: as part of your story your experience on the internet. 1076 01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,520 Speaker 1: Anytime you do that, you have to be somewhat aware 1077 01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,400 Speaker 1: that it could possibly create a ship to him someone 1078 01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:17,400 Speaker 1: give it to yep. I can see that. Sam. Yeah, 1079 01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,320 Speaker 1: That's about where I'd land on it, and that you 1080 01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,640 Speaker 1: know he's absolutely right this day and age, you know 1081 01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:26,400 Speaker 1: you're you know, you're walking that line. If you're going 1082 01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:29,000 Speaker 1: to go do this kind of thing, I think we 1083 01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,920 Speaker 1: will probably fine if we can keep this ball rolling 1084 01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:36,560 Speaker 1: on the Hunting Scandal Assessment Chair, I bet we do 1085 01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:43,320 Speaker 1: find a situation where there's a truly blissfully unawares person 1086 01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:47,640 Speaker 1: out there, But I I don't think this fellas in 1087 01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:52,160 Speaker 1: that category. But two is where I would I would 1088 01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:58,560 Speaker 1: land just because if we're saying one's like absolutely totally unaware, 1089 01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,280 Speaker 1: totally to have be ignorant to this whole social media 1090 01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:07,800 Speaker 1: world around you. Um, but yeah too, yeah yeah, I 1091 01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,360 Speaker 1: start by saying, like we're going this isn't the last 1092 01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna Like, I think, because we've recorded this and 1093 01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,519 Speaker 1: had this kind of discussion, it bears for us as 1094 01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:18,680 Speaker 1: a team and probably me individually to go and do 1095 01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:20,800 Speaker 1: some more research on this and continue to you know, 1096 01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,040 Speaker 1: check the meat eater dot com, check social media, and 1097 01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,120 Speaker 1: will continue to talk about this just so we can 1098 01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:27,479 Speaker 1: kind of answer some of the questions we have at 1099 01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:32,280 Speaker 1: this point. But that is how these scandals go. Like 1100 01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,479 Speaker 1: it's a story breaks, it goes to national news, and 1101 01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:39,519 Speaker 1: then well you find ourselves asking a bunch of legitimate 1102 01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:41,519 Speaker 1: questions that we don't have the answers to them. So 1103 01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,639 Speaker 1: I think, just because we've elevated this, this particular one, 1104 01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,360 Speaker 1: well we can didn't answer these questions. But I agree, 1105 01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:50,880 Speaker 1: I think I think this dude, whenever they're thinking he 1106 01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:56,280 Speaker 1: was doing a good thing, I that would be my guess, um, 1107 01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:58,080 Speaker 1: and all this, I think he was going over there 1108 01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:00,919 Speaker 1: convinced that his money was going to a good experience 1109 01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:05,120 Speaker 1: for him and uh, you know, a positive for the community. 1110 01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:09,280 Speaker 1: Where when he was hunting, I'm I can't be sure 1111 01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:11,880 Speaker 1: of it without asking him specifically, when I'm pretty sure 1112 01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:13,880 Speaker 1: that's the case given who he was with. I know 1113 01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:17,040 Speaker 1: who he was with. So um, how aware was the 1114 01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:21,240 Speaker 1: hunter that this might create a giant ship storm? Um? 1115 01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:24,439 Speaker 1: Yep too, is what I would say. So I think 1116 01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:27,320 Speaker 1: we're all Well, that gets us to a total of eleven. 1117 01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:32,240 Speaker 1: That'll a possible fifty. Well it's actually a possible sixty 1118 01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:37,320 Speaker 1: because behind was the activity legal if you if you 1119 01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:41,080 Speaker 1: if if you're illegal when you do this activity, you 1120 01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,000 Speaker 1: add ten points to the final score. That's true, So 1121 01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:48,840 Speaker 1: the possible sixty if you yeah, theoretically a possible sixty, 1122 01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,479 Speaker 1: we built that. I don't want to see what I 1123 01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:54,280 Speaker 1: don't want to know. I feel like I feel like 1124 01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:57,920 Speaker 1: a sixty is going into a zoo at night. I 1125 01:09:57,960 --> 01:09:59,800 Speaker 1: bet the bad ones are gonna get Are you going 1126 01:09:59,880 --> 01:10:03,360 Speaker 1: to You're real bad, like you threw a grenade into 1127 01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:07,640 Speaker 1: the whale tank at the fucking please please. We're not 1128 01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:11,720 Speaker 1: challenging you. No, no, and none of the those things 1129 01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:16,080 Speaker 1: aren't hunting. Um. So let me go through quickly the 1130 01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:19,719 Speaker 1: the rating for the hunting Scandal assessment chart. We'll start 1131 01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,240 Speaker 1: with the lowest. If you score from zero to ten, 1132 01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:25,000 Speaker 1: we say there's nothing to see here. It's the sinct 1133 01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:28,320 Speaker 1: If you're in there in the eleven to twenty range, 1134 01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:33,960 Speaker 1: raised eyebrows. But let it go one to thirty. This 1135 01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:36,839 Speaker 1: is why we can't have nice things. Thirty day Instagram 1136 01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:41,599 Speaker 1: suspension for the offender thirty one to forty we say, 1137 01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,799 Speaker 1: do not pass, go and return to hunter safety class. 1138 01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:50,360 Speaker 1: Get baskets forty one to fifty. Bad idea. The offender 1139 01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:55,800 Speaker 1: should quietly walk away from hunting. What do you think 1140 01:10:55,840 --> 01:11:00,799 Speaker 1: about that? Those those uh scores? Fellers to make motion 1141 01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,000 Speaker 1: on the table to just downgrade this too. There's nothing 1142 01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:08,280 Speaker 1: to see here. Yeah, it's like we have an eleven here, 1143 01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:12,040 Speaker 1: which would be like raised eyebrows would let it go? Um, 1144 01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,519 Speaker 1: I mean my raised eyebrowser in the attention that this 1145 01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:22,679 Speaker 1: has received. Yes, yes, aggregate activities here, Kyl makes emotion 1146 01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:26,280 Speaker 1: to the I agree to get this down to there's 1147 01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:30,479 Speaker 1: nothing to see here? Do we all agree? Agree? Agree? 1148 01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:33,680 Speaker 1: I agree? I think there again, there's nothing to see here. 1149 01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,680 Speaker 1: This dude did not evil in my opinion. He very 1150 01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,920 Speaker 1: much was doing what he believed I think to be 1151 01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:42,240 Speaker 1: a good thing. Again, I'm making a lot of assumptions there. 1152 01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:45,400 Speaker 1: There's a lot of assumptions in this conversation, and coming 1153 01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:47,840 Speaker 1: days will will add as much detail to this as 1154 01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,720 Speaker 1: we possibly can if we can. Who knows if we 1155 01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:56,200 Speaker 1: will be able to. But uh, some people might look Yanni, 1156 01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:58,360 Speaker 1: what do you think about if if we use this, 1157 01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:00,200 Speaker 1: if we go forward with the scoring system, what do 1158 01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:03,160 Speaker 1: you think about, Um, this forty one to fifty being 1159 01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:07,280 Speaker 1: the offender should quietly walk away from hunting. I feel 1160 01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,800 Speaker 1: like we're being mean no, and I feel like some 1161 01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,080 Speaker 1: people are probably sitting there here when they're as you're 1162 01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:14,240 Speaker 1: listening to this thing, and said, may just passing judgment. 1163 01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:17,280 Speaker 1: I think we tried very hard not to do that 1164 01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:24,160 Speaker 1: and take it from a very uh objective. Yeah, if 1165 01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:28,200 Speaker 1: there's anybody out there that thinks hunters aren't judging each other, boy, 1166 01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:32,000 Speaker 1: you're you're missing the boat. But I want to say 1167 01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:34,320 Speaker 1: that that's why I like thirty one to fifty, which 1168 01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:36,719 Speaker 1: is do not pass, go and return to hunter safety class. 1169 01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:41,559 Speaker 1: All of us, I think, in our community of eleven 1170 01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,519 Speaker 1: million or whatever we are now in this country, agree 1171 01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,519 Speaker 1: that what you are taught there in that class is 1172 01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:53,200 Speaker 1: pretty straightforward, simple basic like how you should go about 1173 01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,400 Speaker 1: doing it as you go first for safety, and then 1174 01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:59,759 Speaker 1: there's also some ethics that are usually taught in those classes. 1175 01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:03,559 Speaker 1: And if you're gonna score this high on that chart, 1176 01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:07,559 Speaker 1: you're obviously just breaking those like very basic you know, 1177 01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:09,920 Speaker 1: rules and guidelines that we sat and that we teach 1178 01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,240 Speaker 1: kids as young as you know, six and seven these days, 1179 01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:15,400 Speaker 1: and then all of us should be going through so 1180 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,839 Speaker 1: um again not trying to pass any kind of judgment. 1181 01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:22,320 Speaker 1: It's just like real basic shit about how you know 1182 01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:27,240 Speaker 1: you don't point a gun at somebody and I don't know, 1183 01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:29,439 Speaker 1: you shouldn't we have it? Did we find any We 1184 01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:31,120 Speaker 1: went through this when we were doing this to try 1185 01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:33,880 Speaker 1: to see if we could, if any situation would would 1186 01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:36,799 Speaker 1: get to the forty one to fifty, which is quietly 1187 01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,639 Speaker 1: walk away from hunting. And I don't think we got there, 1188 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,760 Speaker 1: did we. I think we did with the pedals to 1189 01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:42,880 Speaker 1: the pedals. The bear guy was the one thing that 1190 01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:45,040 Speaker 1: was like, with the information we have here, this person, 1191 01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:49,800 Speaker 1: while legally you know, hunting, we believe to be legally 1192 01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:52,280 Speaker 1: hunting this bear, did it in such a way that 1193 01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,559 Speaker 1: would hurt us all, yeah, intentionally, and we felt like 1194 01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:57,840 Speaker 1: that was Yeah. I think I think the cecil the 1195 01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:02,720 Speaker 1: lion he landed on the do not passty somewhere in 1196 01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:07,200 Speaker 1: there where it wasn't illegal, wasn't really asking for it, 1197 01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:12,439 Speaker 1: but God damned it hurt us as a as a society. Yeah. Yeah, 1198 01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:16,120 Speaker 1: But I think this goes to one thing that I've 1199 01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:18,760 Speaker 1: been thinking about lately and some of the stuff that's 1200 01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:20,720 Speaker 1: happened around to years. This is like, we can't we 1201 01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,519 Speaker 1: have to leave room. We can't be so rigid in 1202 01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:25,719 Speaker 1: our ideas that we have that we don't leave room 1203 01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:30,040 Speaker 1: for um for criticism, Like you know, we gotta leave 1204 01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:34,440 Speaker 1: room for someone to to criticize within our community, criticize 1205 01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:37,639 Speaker 1: what we do, or from without criticize what we do. 1206 01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:40,600 Speaker 1: And the issue we have with this is that the 1207 01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,200 Speaker 1: people that are from without our our the criticism is 1208 01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:49,800 Speaker 1: totally unfounded, not researched, and and not valid. In my opinion, Um, 1209 01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:53,479 Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy to take on valid criticism of marcle 1210 01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:57,880 Speaker 1: Hunt if it's researched and and done well. But when 1211 01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:01,040 Speaker 1: the PDA criticism comes across the board and it's just 1212 01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:05,640 Speaker 1: full of just untruths and half half truths, and well, 1213 01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:07,519 Speaker 1: and not only Pete, I mean, we'd like know that 1214 01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:10,120 Speaker 1: Peter is like they see something like this and they're like, 1215 01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:16,680 Speaker 1: oh my god, Christmas in February. But like CNN and 1216 01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:19,439 Speaker 1: some of the other outlets that you mentioned, it's like, 1217 01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:23,280 Speaker 1: in this day and age, we're all really looking for 1218 01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:26,000 Speaker 1: some people that can say that we're doing good journalism 1219 01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:29,040 Speaker 1: and giving you the facts. And that's why I was 1220 01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:32,600 Speaker 1: so happily surprised when we read that first article you 1221 01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,479 Speaker 1: had up that was from the Pakistani and I don't 1222 01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:39,000 Speaker 1: know that that it's like Dawn dot com, let me 1223 01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:40,760 Speaker 1: go and find it. I want to make sure we're 1224 01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,680 Speaker 1: regretting them correctly wherever it came from. It was an 1225 01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:47,479 Speaker 1: article that somehow managed it was. It was so like 1226 01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:51,160 Speaker 1: uplifting when I read it, because somehow they just said 1227 01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:53,960 Speaker 1: what happened. Maybe we can chalk that up to some 1228 01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:58,439 Speaker 1: sort of language barrier. We very well couldn't. But there 1229 01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,439 Speaker 1: was no judgment as to you know, right or wrong? 1230 01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,760 Speaker 1: Is this like, hey, yeah, I mean it's something you 1231 01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,200 Speaker 1: might want to know about. It's clear that it's clear 1232 01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:09,160 Speaker 1: that I talked to the writer here, not talked to 1233 01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,120 Speaker 1: Instagram message with the writer of the CNN story, and 1234 01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:15,200 Speaker 1: he and he felt that he, you know, practiced the 1235 01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:17,759 Speaker 1: good journalism. I think he's dead as wrong. He should 1236 01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:22,320 Speaker 1: be ashamed of himself. Slander. This is like close to slander. 1237 01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:25,800 Speaker 1: And he clearly had prejudged the person and had a 1238 01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:29,800 Speaker 1: bias against hunting when writing this piece like it. It 1239 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:34,400 Speaker 1: is clear, I mean, he he goes as far as 1240 01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:39,040 Speaker 1: to his first lines says that we sparked outrage and 1241 01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:41,960 Speaker 1: yet who right now you can google the internet and 1242 01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:44,960 Speaker 1: you can't find the outrage that he speaks though, and 1243 01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:48,160 Speaker 1: he says and he quotes Peter and then ends that 1244 01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:51,000 Speaker 1: sentence with While some Pakistani has called for a ban 1245 01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:56,360 Speaker 1: on hunting such animals that right there, which pakistanis Who 1246 01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:59,840 Speaker 1: are they credible? Are they not? Who called for somebody 1247 01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,360 Speaker 1: on Pakistan that you're a comment you read on Facebook. 1248 01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,320 Speaker 1: All the all the Pakistani news sites I've looked at 1249 01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:09,759 Speaker 1: have not seem to care a whole lot about this. Yeah, 1250 01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:14,120 Speaker 1: I mean it is is manufactured outrage, um, and the 1251 01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:19,479 Speaker 1: outrage cycle because I think it's laziness only because Um, 1252 01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:22,080 Speaker 1: this writer knows that this will get clicks. He knows 1253 01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:24,519 Speaker 1: it will do his job to bring in traffic to 1254 01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:27,679 Speaker 1: to his organ so he cares less about he knows 1255 01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:29,599 Speaker 1: the headline will get it done, so he cares less 1256 01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,439 Speaker 1: about the facts within. Like that's just that's clear. And 1257 01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:35,640 Speaker 1: if it's insane to me that this person doesn't have 1258 01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:38,000 Speaker 1: a little bit more of a moral compass and a 1259 01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,559 Speaker 1: little bit more caring about is is the folks that 1260 01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:43,840 Speaker 1: are his readers, Like it's insane to me, And like 1261 01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:47,240 Speaker 1: that goes back to the problem that we're talking about. 1262 01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:49,760 Speaker 1: So the the original article that Yanni was referencing is 1263 01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:54,519 Speaker 1: Dawn dot com um, and I don't think it's a 1264 01:17:54,560 --> 01:18:00,240 Speaker 1: newspaper out of Pakistan, but it covers Pakistan. Um. And 1265 01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:03,080 Speaker 1: you know again, like you said, that's just basically what 1266 01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,000 Speaker 1: it what it says. I think this is probably our 1267 01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:08,080 Speaker 1: our friend. Right now, I'm gonna step out and talk 1268 01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:09,920 Speaker 1: to this guy who set the hunt up. I'll be 1269 01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:13,960 Speaker 1: right back al right. Well, UM, as we kind of 1270 01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:17,880 Speaker 1: round this out here, we actually uh, we're able to 1271 01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:19,920 Speaker 1: talk to took a little podcast break. We're able to 1272 01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,599 Speaker 1: talk to a young a young man named Gregg Brownley 1273 01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:26,320 Speaker 1: who UM is a part of Neil and Brownlee, which 1274 01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:30,360 Speaker 1: is a booking agency we talked about earlier. Greg has 1275 01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:32,479 Speaker 1: been to Pakistan, was there in two thousand and fourteen, 1276 01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:37,200 Speaker 1: UM and has UH guided and booked hunts for UM. 1277 01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:39,720 Speaker 1: Mr Harlan who we spoke of in the with the 1278 01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:41,960 Speaker 1: marc Orps hunt UM so we had he was in 1279 01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,920 Speaker 1: actually in the cheat did stand with some clients flying back. 1280 01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,400 Speaker 1: It was nice enough to to chat for about ten 1281 01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:51,719 Speaker 1: minutes about UM this situation. So we wanted to clarify 1282 01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:53,360 Speaker 1: a few things we learned from Greg and then also 1283 01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:54,840 Speaker 1: maybe in the future we'll be able to talk to 1284 01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:58,880 Speaker 1: UM Mr Harlan the hunter. So we'll again check the 1285 01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:00,920 Speaker 1: media dot com. We'll had some more color to this 1286 01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:03,960 Speaker 1: as we go. As it seems relevant. But um, anybody 1287 01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,479 Speaker 1: having reactions to that conversation we just had with with 1288 01:19:07,080 --> 01:19:14,200 Speaker 1: with Greg No, I think it just uh supports what 1289 01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:17,559 Speaker 1: we were saying. Really yeah, I think it really did. 1290 01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:20,280 Speaker 1: Most of what he said supported exactly what we thought. 1291 01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:23,400 Speaker 1: You know, we had um asked him just for a 1292 01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:28,479 Speaker 1: little personal color on on Brian uh Harlan and only 1293 01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:31,920 Speaker 1: good things. You know, a consciencis hunter somebody who um 1294 01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:36,280 Speaker 1: spoke with the Pakistani media um during the hunt and 1295 01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:39,040 Speaker 1: was talking about you know, conservation and the money that 1296 01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,720 Speaker 1: where this money would go and um and how it 1297 01:19:42,760 --> 01:19:45,040 Speaker 1: would benefit so yeah, and he made it sound like 1298 01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:50,840 Speaker 1: these hunts are celebrated by local Pakistani's. He he added, um, 1299 01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:54,120 Speaker 1: you know an additional level to this that the the 1300 01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:57,920 Speaker 1: mark Corps truly are value list to local Pakistani's without 1301 01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:01,759 Speaker 1: this hunting involved. He said, they'd rather shoot a Markhorps 1302 01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:05,599 Speaker 1: than one of their own goats. Ten dollar goat, ten 1303 01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:08,879 Speaker 1: dollar goat. Yeah. That yeah, like without the value of hunting, 1304 01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:13,080 Speaker 1: that these goats are worthless. Not these Markhorps are worthless 1305 01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:16,320 Speaker 1: when compared to a ten dollar goat, which is livestock 1306 01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:20,080 Speaker 1: because they compete for grazing in a in a pretty uh, 1307 01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,920 Speaker 1: pretty rugged environment with not a whole lot of grass. 1308 01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:27,680 Speaker 1: It looks like hardy hardy. Yeah. Um. And he was 1309 01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,599 Speaker 1: saying when he did the similar hunt, Uh, they had 1310 01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:36,760 Speaker 1: three hundred locals come and yeah see the animal when 1311 01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:39,000 Speaker 1: they brought it off the mountain, and people were cheering 1312 01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:43,639 Speaker 1: and celebrating the size of the animal that their local 1313 01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:47,920 Speaker 1: ecosystem produced. But kind of in a attempt to say, 1314 01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:51,439 Speaker 1: like Gideon on the action and possibly sway the hunter 1315 01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:54,960 Speaker 1: to return and hunt in their area or go hunt 1316 01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:56,960 Speaker 1: in their areas, right, Yeah, they want that. There's like 1317 01:20:57,280 --> 01:20:59,600 Speaker 1: we we would love these funds to be contributed to 1318 01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,360 Speaker 1: arch unity. So we're trying to raise and protect these 1319 01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:04,920 Speaker 1: animals to make them bigger so that triv honorable want 1320 01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:07,680 Speaker 1: to come and you know, and like I said, that 1321 01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:09,080 Speaker 1: goes back to what we're talking about earlier. That's a 1322 01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:12,560 Speaker 1: conflicting reality for me. Uh, but Greg just sent me 1323 01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:14,280 Speaker 1: it's a little more information that we were talking about, 1324 01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:16,360 Speaker 1: like the Kashmir markhors, which is one of the three 1325 01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:20,920 Speaker 1: subspecies that are over there that are honorable. Um. He 1326 01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:24,280 Speaker 1: basically said that Kasmir Markhorts saw its population is once 1327 01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:29,080 Speaker 1: game rich area dwindle to thirty individuals by the early nineties, 1328 01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:32,880 Speaker 1: due to uncontrolled poaching and competition with local livestock, the 1329 01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:36,920 Speaker 1: markhorps had no value in the eyes of local Pakistan. 1330 01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:39,400 Speaker 1: He's realizing that something needs to be done. Local leaders 1331 01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:41,640 Speaker 1: decided to set up a protected game reserve for the 1332 01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:44,680 Speaker 1: mark corps and moved out all domestic livestock. In a 1333 01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:47,519 Speaker 1: few short years, funding was drying up and and it 1334 01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:51,200 Speaker 1: was impossible to find in this rural area of Pakistan, 1335 01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:54,879 Speaker 1: where the average salaries five dollars a week. They decided 1336 01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:57,559 Speaker 1: to auction a single permit to hunt a male markhorps, 1337 01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:01,600 Speaker 1: with of the proceeds going directly funding anti poaching and 1338 01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:04,200 Speaker 1: protection of the animals and the game reserve. The plan 1339 01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:07,840 Speaker 1: worked and the population steadily began to increase as many 1340 01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:10,799 Speaker 1: local people started to see the value in the mark corps. Today, 1341 01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:14,000 Speaker 1: the population is upwards of thirteen hundred animals and the 1342 01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:18,200 Speaker 1: Tushi g r Game Reserve with the total of five 1343 01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:20,880 Speaker 1: hunting permits per year, and other areas are beginning to 1344 01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:23,320 Speaker 1: create in services of their own and an attempt to 1345 01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:26,839 Speaker 1: grow the population. And again he references that these permits 1346 01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:30,000 Speaker 1: are a hundred thousand dollars each so, UM, that's the 1347 01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:32,479 Speaker 1: reality on the ground. Like it or don't. That's what's 1348 01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:35,160 Speaker 1: happened there. Those are the facts from someone who's hunted there, 1349 01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,880 Speaker 1: greg and hunted there, and it was a part of 1350 01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:41,559 Speaker 1: some of the beginnings of UM these game reserves, you know, 1351 01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:45,360 Speaker 1: becoming you know, really truly funded by American trophy hunters 1352 01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:50,760 Speaker 1: or international triphy uners. I guess to say, so that's that. UM, 1353 01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:53,720 Speaker 1: anybody have any closing thoughts on what we've done here, 1354 01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:56,040 Speaker 1: what we're trying to do. With the complex nature of 1355 01:22:56,080 --> 01:23:01,680 Speaker 1: all this business, it's just it just seems so arbitrary 1356 01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:06,719 Speaker 1: that this particular thing was seized upon, as it often 1357 01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:10,160 Speaker 1: does when these scandals rise. It's like, how did you 1358 01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:13,240 Speaker 1: how did you pick this one? How's this guy any 1359 01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:16,080 Speaker 1: worse than other three guys you shot Mark Corps in 1360 01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:20,639 Speaker 1: the same spot in Pakistan? Um higher highest dollar amount. 1361 01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:24,800 Speaker 1: But if I'm the dude from CNN, I'm like, wait, 1362 01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:28,920 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand, hundred five thousand, that's good with that. 1363 01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:31,040 Speaker 1: I just gotta wonder if he didn't hear about the 1364 01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:34,240 Speaker 1: other ones. This one just randomly came across his sphere 1365 01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:36,360 Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, I bet that pist off a 1366 01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:38,880 Speaker 1: bunch of people. Well, and I need something to write 1367 01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:40,800 Speaker 1: about today. Yeah, I mean, as a hunter, you have 1368 01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:42,840 Speaker 1: a choice right to let this kind of scare you. 1369 01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:45,000 Speaker 1: Like if you feel if you're you know, if you're 1370 01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:46,679 Speaker 1: the guy who went over here and crack the mark orps, 1371 01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,080 Speaker 1: you have a couple of things like you can hunt, 1372 01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,000 Speaker 1: and a lot of these guys will not allow their 1373 01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:54,960 Speaker 1: identities to be put out there. That like if that 1374 01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:56,719 Speaker 1: if somebody wants to share a photo then the animally 1375 01:23:56,720 --> 01:23:59,120 Speaker 1: gotta blur their face that you'll see that a lot. 1376 01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:03,240 Speaker 1: And he's hide out or trophy um hunting circles, so 1377 01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:05,679 Speaker 1: like you have it, like it's just scary for this guy, 1378 01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:08,719 Speaker 1: Like he's I'm sure getting death threats and I would 1379 01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:10,320 Speaker 1: attempt to talk to him and just kind of see 1380 01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:12,559 Speaker 1: what's up. I just read through all the Facebook comments 1381 01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:14,720 Speaker 1: on that video and there are death threats in there. Yeah, 1382 01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:19,719 Speaker 1: and so you know, you know, from talking to Greg 1383 01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:23,280 Speaker 1: and getting some color on this guy, like he really truly, 1384 01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:26,240 Speaker 1: I thinks that he's doing a good thing with his money. 1385 01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:28,960 Speaker 1: And and by the numbers, he is whether you think, 1386 01:24:29,479 --> 01:24:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, whatever you think of this activity, the numbers 1387 01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:36,120 Speaker 1: say that he is doing a good thing. So, um, 1388 01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:40,000 Speaker 1: I would admit to being a bit conflicted. How how 1389 01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:41,920 Speaker 1: does this really make hunters look? But at the end 1390 01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:44,160 Speaker 1: of the day, I would side with the dude who 1391 01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:48,559 Speaker 1: spend all his money, hard earned money, to go go 1392 01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:52,679 Speaker 1: towards conservation. It's hard for me to to argue against that. Yeah, 1393 01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:55,080 Speaker 1: as long as you can look at Mark Corps as 1394 01:24:55,080 --> 01:25:02,960 Speaker 1: a species and not the individual Mark Corp named Billy, um, 1395 01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:08,200 Speaker 1: then it's a it's a plus for the species. They're 1396 01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:12,599 Speaker 1: gonna do better without Billy overall in the long run 1397 01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:17,679 Speaker 1: than with Billy by having Brian take him home. They're 1398 01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:21,560 Speaker 1: read about that. Cal give us some give us a 1399 01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:28,839 Speaker 1: very deep closing thought. Were shallow? It can be shallow. 1400 01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:31,320 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna judge you. You can say Mark Corps 1401 01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:35,400 Speaker 1: are pretty You're gonna book your Mark Wis Hunt tomorrow. Yeah, 1402 01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:36,800 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It is it's just a 1403 01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:42,240 Speaker 1: bizarre thing because for me like that may as well 1404 01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:46,320 Speaker 1: be like a doctor Seus's type animal. Right, So it's uh, 1405 01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:49,160 Speaker 1: I know they exist. I've I've heard about him before. 1406 01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:53,840 Speaker 1: I've read about accounts of folks going over there. Um. 1407 01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:58,559 Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I mean it's it's definitely a departure 1408 01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:02,000 Speaker 1: from home. Um, until you kind of break it down 1409 01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:08,800 Speaker 1: to you know, Hunter goes through some sorts of sort 1410 01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:15,120 Speaker 1: of license fee, pays for the opportunity to uh, you know, 1411 01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:22,960 Speaker 1: try to take old billy home. But um, yeah, it 1412 01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:30,439 Speaker 1: uh it's I'm more offended by the sensational nature of um, 1413 01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:34,880 Speaker 1: how things are portrayed, Like we can't give people enough 1414 01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:39,120 Speaker 1: credit to come up come to their own conclusions. Um, 1415 01:26:39,320 --> 01:26:41,240 Speaker 1: so we want to nudge them a little bit. And 1416 01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:45,519 Speaker 1: in this writer's defense, you know, maybe his sounding board 1417 01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:53,800 Speaker 1: is just straight up easily insulted type of person. He said, hey, 1418 01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:56,040 Speaker 1: what do you think about this? Like, oh, my god, 1419 01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:59,719 Speaker 1: worst thing ever? And then he's like a headline people 1420 01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:04,280 Speaker 1: enraged by a man paying a hundred and ten thousand 1421 01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:08,640 Speaker 1: dollars from Mark R. So uh yeah, yeah, not that 1422 01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:11,880 Speaker 1: this particular thing, this happens happening so often. Now that 1423 01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:15,000 Speaker 1: that's this particular thing shouldn't be surprising in or it's 1424 01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:19,519 Speaker 1: not really special and it's in what's happened, but it's happening, 1425 01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:24,559 Speaker 1: so we need to assess it officially. Nothing to see here, 1426 01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:28,880 Speaker 1: Nothing to see here, folks on the Hunting scandal assessment. 1427 01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:31,439 Speaker 1: So We'll put that there's nothing scandal assessment short on 1428 01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:33,080 Speaker 1: the mediator dot com. You go over there and you 1429 01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:34,719 Speaker 1: click on that son of a bitch and you print 1430 01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:38,040 Speaker 1: it out and you do it with your friends. Get 1431 01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:41,280 Speaker 1: serious or don't you know? You know the best possible 1432 01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:44,120 Speaker 1: thing you can do is UM print that thing out, 1433 01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:50,360 Speaker 1: invite a couple of your non hunting friends over and 1434 01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:55,080 Speaker 1: UH go through that chat together. Be a good eye opening, 1435 01:27:55,160 --> 01:28:03,240 Speaker 1: good conversation amongst amongst friends. Think that's right, have a conversation. Yeah, yeah, 1436 01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:05,280 Speaker 1: I have a conversation. It's a good way to close it. 1437 01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:12,439 Speaker 1: Thank you, gentlemen, Thank you. That's it. That's all. We're done. 1438 01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,240 Speaker 1: We're done another hunting collective in the books. Thank you 1439 01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:19,000 Speaker 1: again to Ryan Callahan, Sam Longer than you honest tell 1440 01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:21,680 Speaker 1: us for taking the time to crack through this with 1441 01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:24,760 Speaker 1: me UM and filling out our huntings anal assessment chart 1442 01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:29,120 Speaker 1: and talking through what is the complex and difficult happening 1443 01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:31,880 Speaker 1: in our world. So it was, you know, to me, 1444 01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:34,400 Speaker 1: just a little bit cathartic to talk it through with 1445 01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:37,320 Speaker 1: some folks. And again, I think the hunting community less 1446 01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:41,080 Speaker 1: uh is less concerned with these um scandals. But if 1447 01:28:41,080 --> 01:28:44,519 Speaker 1: the non hunting community sees them on news outlets and 1448 01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:47,600 Speaker 1: it's covered in the mainstream and it's pretty consistent. So 1449 01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:49,760 Speaker 1: it's something that we need to address. And hopefully this 1450 01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:52,880 Speaker 1: is the beginning of a long conversation about how we 1451 01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:55,839 Speaker 1: address these things, UM and if there is a problem, 1452 01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:59,800 Speaker 1: how we can solve it together in a constructive way. 1453 01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,479 Speaker 1: So hopefully this this discussion helped with that we do 1454 01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:05,799 Speaker 1: take it seriously, even though we have sometimes our tongues 1455 01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:09,160 Speaker 1: firmly planted in a cheek. Um, this is something we 1456 01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:13,120 Speaker 1: do consider to be, you know, fairly serious. What else? 1457 01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:16,800 Speaker 1: What else? What else? Oh? Thank you, thank you, Thank 1458 01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:21,480 Speaker 1: you to everyone who came out to Renown, Nevada and Sacramento, 1459 01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:24,840 Speaker 1: California to the first two shows UM the live tour 1460 01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:28,680 Speaker 1: the Meat Eater podcast. I was able to join um 1461 01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:33,000 Speaker 1: callahan and Patelis and Ronella and Remy Warren and uh 1462 01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:36,840 Speaker 1: Grey Thornton from Wild Cheap while We're in Reno, and 1463 01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,040 Speaker 1: it was amazing. That was my first time being on 1464 01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:42,360 Speaker 1: stage for for podcasts like this and to meet the 1465 01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:45,360 Speaker 1: thousands or so folks that showed up to hear you 1466 01:29:45,479 --> 01:29:49,000 Speaker 1: laugh and cheer during the recording. Um Man, it was 1467 01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:51,880 Speaker 1: rewarding for me. So I'm I'm I'm happy that I 1468 01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:54,920 Speaker 1: was able to do it, Happy that Steve Ronella has 1469 01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:58,040 Speaker 1: has created a platform such as that. One is graciously 1470 01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:01,559 Speaker 1: happy huh be a part of it, um, And it 1471 01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:04,000 Speaker 1: was you know, to meet everyone for young and old, 1472 01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:08,519 Speaker 1: to meet everyone and hear your experiences with our content. 1473 01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:11,040 Speaker 1: Man is inspiring. And we're gonna do it more and 1474 01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:15,120 Speaker 1: better and m continue to promote what we feel like 1475 01:30:15,240 --> 01:30:18,960 Speaker 1: is the the right conversation, the right experience with hunting, 1476 01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:21,400 Speaker 1: fishing and the like. So thank you again. It means 1477 01:30:21,439 --> 01:30:24,200 Speaker 1: a lot to us. Uh. There's more dates for the 1478 01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:26,439 Speaker 1: live tour if you go to the media dot com 1479 01:30:26,439 --> 01:30:28,960 Speaker 1: and click on events, there's more dates. There's more tickets 1480 01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:32,439 Speaker 1: available all around the country, from Seattle to Kalambazoo, Michigan 1481 01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:35,280 Speaker 1: to Dallas to Houston. UM. I will be in the 1482 01:30:35,479 --> 01:30:37,520 Speaker 1: at the Boise Show at the b h A Rendezvous 1483 01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:39,559 Speaker 1: on stage, and I will also if if we end 1484 01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:41,760 Speaker 1: up doing one in Austin, Texas, I will be there 1485 01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:44,200 Speaker 1: and on stage for that one as well. If you 1486 01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:48,240 Speaker 1: were wondering UM beyond that, go to the meet dot 1487 01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:50,280 Speaker 1: com do all the things over there as well. Sign 1488 01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:52,360 Speaker 1: up for the newsletter. Go to the store. There's a 1489 01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:54,720 Speaker 1: lot of gear there for you to purchase if you'd 1490 01:30:54,760 --> 01:30:58,160 Speaker 1: like to, and we hope you would like to. Um. 1491 01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:01,800 Speaker 1: That's it for now. Again, thank you for tuning in, 1492 01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:05,360 Speaker 1: Thanks for being a part of this conversation. Come get us, 1493 01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:07,360 Speaker 1: get in contact with us. If you have any critiques 1494 01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:11,120 Speaker 1: in any scandal assessment chart, or anything we I had 1495 01:31:11,160 --> 01:31:35,720 Speaker 1: to say today, We're happy to read it. Bye. M.