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Speaker 1: Welcome to zero. I'm Akshatarati. This week choices, controversies and

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Speaker 1: carbon footprints. There are plenty of controversial things about climate change,

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Speaker 1: that it is not happening is not one of them.

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Speaker 1: The science is clear humans burning fossil fuels is the

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Speaker 1: primary reason behind heating the planet, and cutting those emissions

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Speaker 1: to zero will stop the rise in global average temperature.

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Speaker 1: Where the legitimate controversies lie is on how we get

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Speaker 1: to zero. That's because there isn't one solution, or even

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Speaker 1: one set of solutions that will help achieve that goal

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Speaker 1: in every country on the planet. There's plenty of good

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Speaker 1: debate to be had about why one solution is better

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Speaker 1: than the other and what are the best ways to

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Speaker 1: deploy those solutions. There are also legitimate concerns around who

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Speaker 1: should be responsible for those solutions, corporations, governments, or individuals. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're going to delve into understanding the agency that individuals

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Speaker 1: have to affect change. While it's clear there's no way

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Speaker 1: to get to zero without systemic changes, it's also true

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Speaker 1: that there's a growing role that individuals can play as

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Speaker 1: consumers or as agents of systemic changes. However, often the

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Speaker 1: conversation around individual action on climate starts off on a

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Speaker 1: controversial metric, carbon footprints.

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Speaker 2: The very idea of any individual feeling accountable to this

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Speaker 2: is something that the oil companies, who are far more accountable,

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Speaker 2: would like you to believe. It's a proxy for talking

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Speaker 2: about blame. Like, let's break down numerically the degree to

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Speaker 2: which you are to blame for this problem, and no

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Speaker 2: one is like, yeah, sign me up.

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Speaker 3: I'd love to hear about that.

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Speaker 1: This is Kira Bindram. She helped launch the Greener Living

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Speaker 1: vertical for Bloomberg Green last year, and she's recounting the

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Speaker 1: typical butttle to caring about a carbon footprint. And even

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Speaker 1: if you're listening and nodding along with Kira, I bet

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Speaker 1: you still do quite a few things in the name

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Speaker 1: of the environment. Today. I want to talk to you

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Speaker 1: about that very tension that even if we understand carbon

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Speaker 1: footprints are a distraction as a conscious citizen, we are

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Speaker 1: still thinking about the measure and what we can do

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Speaker 1: about it. To make this conversation a little fun, I

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Speaker 1: asked Kira if you would let me calculate her carbon footprint,

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Speaker 1: and she was game. We discuss what the numbers mean

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Speaker 1: and what the limits are on doing something about reducing them.

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Speaker 1: We also discuss why people love reading about electric cars,

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Speaker 1: why d growth is an idea that fails to take off,

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Speaker 1: and how to find joy in your carbon footprint. Kira,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Now, this is a show about greenert living and we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about lots of things to do with

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Speaker 1: carbon footprint. And I should just note that you're sitting

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Speaker 1: in New York in a studio. I'm sitting in London

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Speaker 1: in a studio and thanks to magical technology, we're able

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Speaker 1: to talk without having to put out a carbon footprint

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Speaker 1: to be in the same physical place to do.

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Speaker 3: This, it would have been weird to fly here to

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Speaker 3: just have this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Correct, Now, you have been editing Greener Living for a year.

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Speaker 1: What were your trepidations coming into launching a vertical and

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Speaker 1: what have you learned.

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Speaker 2: I think there's when you're just a person existing in

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Speaker 2: the world and you're not sort of close to climate coverage,

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Speaker 2: there's sort of two dueling narratives in your head around

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Speaker 2: climate change. One of them is that there's nothing you

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Speaker 2: can do that this is all companies, this is all governments,

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Speaker 2: this is all systemic problems, and you as a person

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Speaker 2: are just sort of a bystander, hoping and praying that

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Speaker 2: your values aligned with what the companies and the governments

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Speaker 2: are going to do, and good luck, you know, but

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Speaker 2: going like God. And then the other is that it's

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Speaker 2: all you. You know, it's your carbon footprint. If you

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Speaker 2: are flying, if you are buying stuff, if you are

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Speaker 2: eating hamburgers, you are part of the problem. And if

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Speaker 2: you're not changing those things right now, you're even more

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Speaker 2: part of the problem. And I think there is a

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Speaker 2: way to an important way to sort of thread the

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Speaker 2: needle between those two narratives, which is, yes, it is

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Speaker 2: primarily companies and governments, and these are systemic problems, and

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Speaker 2: your footprint and your accountability to them is small relative

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Speaker 2: to those other larger forces. But that doesn't mean that

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Speaker 2: there's nothing you can do, and it doesn't mean that

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Speaker 2: there's not power in feeling and taking agency when you're

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Speaker 2: dealing with a problem this vast. And so I think

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Speaker 2: that was both what excited me about doing greener living

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Speaker 2: and what made me nervous about it is I think

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Speaker 2: there's truth to both of the other narratives, but there's

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Speaker 2: value in the one that sort of threads the needle

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Speaker 2: between them.

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Speaker 1: So now let's just talk through some of the stories that,

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Speaker 1: if you were to look back in the past year,

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Speaker 1: stick out in your head as stories you're really prouder for,

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Speaker 1: stories you didn't think you would end up doing, but

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Speaker 1: really were fun stories a day. Did that reaction that

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Speaker 1: you didn't expect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like there are kind of types of

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Speaker 2: stories that really resonate with me when I'm working with

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Speaker 2: reporters or looking at pitches, and that seem to do

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Speaker 2: well as greener living stories. The first kind would be

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Speaker 2: a story that kind of reframes the way I think

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Speaker 2: about something or changes my assumption about it. So we

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Speaker 2: had a story around a P and G, which is

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Speaker 2: a big consumer company, wanted to sell more dishwasher fluid,

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Speaker 2: and so they were trying to trot out the statistic,

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Speaker 2: which is true that twenty percent of people in the

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Speaker 2: US at least don't use their dishwashers because they think

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Speaker 2: that they are more intense on the environment, and they're wrong.

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Speaker 2: They're actually like much it's much better to using your

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Speaker 2: dishwasher than washing your dishes by hand. And I love

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Speaker 2: this idea that people were doing something that they thought

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Speaker 2: was sustainable and it actually wasn't, just because it reminds

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Speaker 2: you that you know, your assumptions about things are always

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Speaker 2: worth interrogating a little bit. I love stories that put

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Speaker 2: validity to or commiserate with people around a shared experience.

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Speaker 2: So we recently did a story. I think the headline

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Speaker 2: was literally, why so many EV chargers in America don't work?

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Speaker 3: And that just resonated.

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Speaker 2: Immediately with so many people whose experience of evs so

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Speaker 2: far is Okay, I got the car, and I trust

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Speaker 2: the car. We'll go three hundred miles, but I am

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Speaker 2: not confident that I will find a charger that will work.

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Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean we shouldn't transition to EV's, Like

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Speaker 2: I think you have to highlight these growing pains to

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Speaker 2: normalize them.

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Speaker 3: These transitions are going to be tricky.

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Speaker 2: But it was something that like immediately resonated with a

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Speaker 2: lot of people.

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Speaker 1: That's my first time experience too. I recently got a

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Speaker 1: driving license and took a trip in the American Southwest

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Speaker 1: in an EV and literally anything that wasn't a Tesla charger.

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Speaker 1: Luckily we rented a Tesla did not work. It is

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Speaker 1: a big problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's one of those things that no one

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Speaker 2: is dropping the ball necessarily, like this is a new technology,

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Speaker 2: it has to sit out in the open and extreme weather.

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Speaker 2: A lot of it is software updates, Like there's all

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Speaker 2: of these totally valid reasons that it is not easy

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Speaker 2: to make tons and tons of EV charger. Public ev

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Speaker 2: chargers across the United States work perfectly, so it's nice

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Speaker 2: to sort of unpack that for people.

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Speaker 1: And among the many things that add up to a

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Speaker 1: person's impact on the emissions problem, electric cars tend to

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Speaker 1: get a ton more people reading those stories. Even though

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Speaker 1: road transportation is a buick portion of a person's emissions,

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Speaker 1: especially if they're in America, where car and driving culture

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Speaker 1: is a big part of living. It's not that big.

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Speaker 1: You know, food matters, whether you fly or not matters.

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Speaker 1: All the things that you purchase matter. But why is

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Speaker 1: it that there is just so much interest in electric

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Speaker 1: car stories?

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Speaker 2: It jibes with another story type that I think resonates

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Speaker 2: with people, which is I call it green future fomo

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Speaker 2: fear of missing out.

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Speaker 3: I think there's this.

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Speaker 2: Idea that again that we have two choices that either

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Speaker 2: we keep doing what we're doing and the planet burns,

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Speaker 2: or we sacrifice. Sacrifice sacrifice and that is the way

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Speaker 2: we get to zero emissions. And for me, nothing epitomizes

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Speaker 2: this more than the paper straws that everyone saw the

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Speaker 2: paper straws and was like, this is awful? Is this

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Speaker 2: what it's going to be like? And evis are the

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Speaker 2: oppos they're the anti paper shows. It's an example of

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Speaker 2: where like the culturally relevant thing happens to be clean

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Speaker 2: energy versus that everyone is so hyped on clean energy.

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Speaker 2: So you don't need to be someone who pays attention

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Speaker 2: to clean energy or cares about climate change or even

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Speaker 2: believes in climate change to maybe be at a point

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Speaker 2: where you are interested in electric car coverage because you

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Speaker 2: have a car. Car content is a big, big sector,

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Speaker 2: and I really do think and hope that a lot

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Speaker 2: more sustainable technology, sustainable ideas enter that space. Cultural relevance

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Speaker 2: and the cool factor is a big part of this

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Speaker 2: and needs to be versus just banking on the climate claim.

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Speaker 1: And so a lot of the stories that you end

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Speaker 1: up doing, which is not just greener living but broadly

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Green, are solutions oriented, and the more climate as

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Speaker 1: a problem is getting attention, the more people want to

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Speaker 1: come to you with solutions. So What is it that

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Speaker 1: you do to try and avoid green washing or falling

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Speaker 1: for solutions that sound good but may not work. What

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Speaker 1: is it that you're asking reports to look out for

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Speaker 1: when they write these stories.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there are some questions that any reporter

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Speaker 2: can and should ask when you're interrogating some of these ideas,

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Speaker 2: and they're kind of the same as the questions that

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Speaker 2: any consumers should ask if they're sort of thinking about

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Speaker 2: what changes they could make in their lives. If a

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Speaker 2: company is out there talking about solving a problem at

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Speaker 2: which many of these companies are, and the problem is

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Speaker 2: climate change, the things that you can do or interrogate

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Speaker 2: the scope of the problem that they're trying to solve.

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Speaker 2: If it's textile waste, how big is textile waste, how

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Speaker 2: much is that factoring? And how scalable their solution is.

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Speaker 2: If it's something that they made five shirts out of

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Speaker 2: mushrooms like that is great, but it's not necessarily something

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Speaker 2: that will translate to combating fast fashion or something like that.

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Speaker 2: What kind of money is involved are these sustainable business ideas?

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Speaker 2: And then lastly, how is it being marketed? And this

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Speaker 2: gets into greenwashing, which I think we'll see a lot

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Speaker 2: more of incoming years, not just companies doing it, but

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Speaker 2: also regulatory action against it. And I do think and

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Speaker 2: hope that consumers will develop a more sophisticated understanding of

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Speaker 2: what they should be watching out for. And that's something

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Speaker 2: that we're trying to help them with to show these

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Speaker 2: examples or show the words that you need to look

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Speaker 2: out for in add campaigns and things like that. These

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Speaker 2: are words like carbon neutral or biodegradable, or when you

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Speaker 2: see a claim that they're going to be net zero

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Speaker 2: by blank date but not compared to some other date,

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Speaker 2: things like that.

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Speaker 1: One big solution to all these problems is obviously the

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Speaker 1: things that we buy need to be greener. But a

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Speaker 1: big solution could also be just consuming less. So what

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Speaker 1: is it that you do to try and figure out

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Speaker 1: writing stories that help people think consuming less is a

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Speaker 1: solution one that they may want to embrace.

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Speaker 2: So I am perennially of two minds about this, and

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Speaker 2: one of them is sort of my lizard brain mind,

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Speaker 2: which is de growth or less consumption is such a

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Speaker 2: hard sell with people, Like climate change is a big problem,

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Speaker 2: but getting people to buy less that's a really big problem.

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Speaker 2: And then the others that of course, that's the simplest solution,

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Speaker 2: and it's one of the things that you can tell

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Speaker 2: people to do. So I think the way to navigate

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Speaker 2: between those two ideas is to not be so on

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Speaker 2: the note about it. If I wrote a story with

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Speaker 2: the headline, you know what you could do to help

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Speaker 2: climate change?

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Speaker 3: Buy less stuff? No people, six people and click on.

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Speaker 2: That story because it's obvious and it's not something people

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Speaker 2: want to hear, like they know that objectively on some level.

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Speaker 2: And it's a tough thing to have every day, especially

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Speaker 2: when you feel and see the impacts of climate change

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Speaker 2: happening now and they're happening unequally around the world and socioeconomically,

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Speaker 2: but it's not going to change the facts on the ground,

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Speaker 2: which is that people are people, and it goes back

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Speaker 2: to you sort of need to find a way to

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Speaker 2: meet them where they are. And then the last thing

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Speaker 2: I'll say, I think there are two things that do

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Speaker 2: not show up in your carbon footprint in the way

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Speaker 2: that I fly or I have a house where I

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Speaker 2: drive a car, which is voting. The number one thing

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Speaker 2: you can do to affect change on climate is to

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Speaker 2: vote for people in office that are focused on it,

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Speaker 2: and that have policies that align with solutions, so please

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Speaker 2: be doing that. And then the other is where you

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Speaker 2: store your money. I think a lot of people forget

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Speaker 2: that banks are heavily invested in fossil fuel companies, and

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Speaker 2: so where you have your bank account, where you have

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Speaker 2: your retirement These are also things that are relevant that

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Speaker 2: are not day to day changes, but are things that

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Speaker 2: you can look into.

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Speaker 1: One aspect of Bloomberg Green that I love is that

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News has a global footprint and we have colleagues

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Speaker 1: covering all the major economies in the world, covering every

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Speaker 1: time zone greener living. On the other hand, though most

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Speaker 1: reporters are either in the US or in Europe. Was

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Speaker 1: that a conscious choice?

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Speaker 3: Yes and no.

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Speaker 2: I think when you're talking about tactics or methods that

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Speaker 2: exist to reduce energy consumption or change production methods or

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Speaker 2: consume less, I think you can find those stories pretty

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Speaker 2: much anywhere in the world, Like there are countries where

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Speaker 2: that way of life is extremely normal and actually we

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Speaker 2: could learn a lot, And there are places where, you know,

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Speaker 2: we'll do a story on an Italian startup that is

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Speaker 2: recycling wool in a way that has lessons for modern

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Speaker 2: textile production, like those stories are everywhere.

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Speaker 3: But when you're.

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Speaker 2: Talking about people and who should who is in a

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Speaker 2: position to change things in their lives socioeconomically that would

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Speaker 2: help the planet, And who is in a position where

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Speaker 2: the things that they change would disproportionately help the plant

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Speaker 2: it because they are already over emitting. It makes a

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Speaker 2: great deal of sense to be talking to Americans and Europeans,

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Speaker 2: and especially wealthy or upper income Americans and Europeans. If

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Speaker 2: you live in Connecticut in a big house with three

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Speaker 2: cars and fly six times a year and eat a

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Speaker 2: ton of Hamburgers, like I'm going to come to you.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to knock on your door with some ideas

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Speaker 2: and some suggestions before I'm going to go to someone

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Speaker 2: in Pakistan or in Indonesia. And that's just logical, And

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Speaker 2: so yes, there is an intended or intentional conceit in

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Speaker 2: greener living that we should be talking to people who

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Speaker 2: are in a position to make changes while finding inspiration

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Speaker 2: and stories from all over the world.

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Speaker 1: And then going back to the start of this conversation,

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Speaker 1: there is a polarization when it comes to an individual's

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Speaker 1: contribution to climate change, and one reason why some people say, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's all the system, and you know individuals don't have

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Speaker 1: power to change that system, versus others who say, well,

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Speaker 1: unless individuals do anything, nothing's going to happen. Is down

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Speaker 1: to being able to measure our carbon footprint. It's a

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Speaker 1: thing that you can do now increasingly. As part of

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Speaker 1: this conversation, Kira, you shared a bunch of numbers with

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Speaker 1: me and how very soon I will reveal what I

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Speaker 1: believe is your carbon footprint.

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Speaker 3: I'm so scared.

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Speaker 1: But before we get through that, what is it about

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Speaker 1: carbon footprints that get so many people riled up?

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Speaker 2: I think it depends on how close you are to

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Speaker 2: the topic. For a climate journalist, they will be very

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Speaker 2: quick to tell you that the idea of carbon footprint

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Speaker 2: was originated by BP, the oil company. Then it was

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Speaker 2: this big campaign and it was extremely successful, and so

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Speaker 2: they'll sort of argue, not unfairly, that the very idea

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Speaker 2: of any individual feeling accountable to this is something that

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Speaker 2: the oil companies, who are far more accountable for emissions

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Speaker 2: and for warming, would like you to believe. It's a

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Speaker 2: proxy for talking about blame. And I think that's hard

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Speaker 2: for people fairly, which it's sort of like, let's break

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Speaker 2: down numerically the degree to which you are to blame

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Speaker 2: for this problem, and no one is like, yeah, sign

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Speaker 2: me up.

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Speaker 3: I'd love to hear about that.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's all of those things, Like it

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Speaker 2: just activates the feelings that people have, which is this

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be on me, and if it is on me,

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Speaker 2: on us collectively, Like I don't want you to point

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Speaker 2: the finger literally at me and the things that I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: And we all have these little narratives that we tell

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Speaker 2: ourselves of how we don't do the thing that we

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Speaker 2: probably know we could be doing to improve emissions.

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Speaker 1: But you volunteered to be shamed for this podcast, so

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Speaker 1: thank you, and you sent me a response to many

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Speaker 1: of the questions I had about your consumption. And so

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Speaker 1: after the break, I'll go through your carbon footprint. So

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Speaker 1: there are two ways in which I think we can

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Speaker 1: measure carbon footprints pretty easily. One is an average figure

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Speaker 1: which is very easy to find. So if you just

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Speaker 1: google per capita emissions of somebody living in the UK,

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Speaker 1: then number is roughly five point two tons of carbon dioxide.

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Speaker 1: Barrier do that for the US and the number is

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Speaker 1: fourteen point two tons of carbon dioxide. So from the

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Speaker 1: get go, Kira, You're sitting in New York. I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: in London.

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Speaker 3: I'm starting at a disadvantage.

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Speaker 1: You do start at a disadvantage. So the shame game

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Speaker 1: has begun. But obviously what an average number gives you

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Speaker 1: obscures a lot, and so to try and get down

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Speaker 1: to a more refined figure, I asked you to give

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Speaker 1: me a number of data points. So you very kindly

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Speaker 1: shared with me how many flights you take every year,

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Speaker 1: which is not a lot. How much meat you eat

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Speaker 1: every week. I should have really asked you about cheese too,

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Speaker 1: because it counts. But anyway, how much meat do you

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Speaker 1: eat every week, which amazingly you had the exact numbers

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Speaker 1: because you track your meals. How much electricity do you consume?

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Speaker 1: That's easy enough. Our bills come with a kilo what

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Speaker 1: our figure on them, and so we should be able

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Speaker 1: to find that. How much do you drive, which is

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Speaker 1: not at all, which is very interesting for an American,

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Speaker 1: but I suppose a New Yorker it's probably not that unusual.

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Speaker 1: And then how much do you buy? So of all

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Speaker 1: those things, the hardest I found to figure out carbon

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Speaker 1: footprint for is emissions tied to purchasing. There are some

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Speaker 1: dodgy figures available, but I feel not very confident about it,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm not including that in the calculation. Maybe

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Speaker 1: we can give it a rough number, but I can

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Speaker 1: walk through the rest of it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I feel like I'm going to like come out

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Speaker 2: easy because we're discounting my Amazon habit and my cheese habit.

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Speaker 3: So this is really already working out for me.

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Speaker 1: I think we'll just add a round number at the end, right.

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Speaker 3: For cheese and Amazon combined.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so we started with a comparison of just per

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Speaker 1: capita US versus UK, and that is fourteen point two

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Speaker 1: tons versus five point two tons. Now I'm going to

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Speaker 1: do it by sections. So you said you don't fly

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Speaker 1: that often, but if you were to average it out,

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Speaker 1: roughly one New York London flight might be the most

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Speaker 1: you would do in a year. So that comes out

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Speaker 1: to be the easiest number to find, which is about

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Speaker 1: one point seven tons of carbon dioxide. Because you were

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Speaker 1: so precise on the meat options again.

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Speaker 2: Also the variety of meats, which I know well I

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Speaker 2: admired in myself.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you admired reading my list.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well I should list them out chicken, pork, seafood, turkey, ham, bison,

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Speaker 1: and beef. And the fact you should remember is keyra

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Speaker 1: at least last week eight more bison than beef. Turns

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Speaker 1: out bison is about half the carbon footprint of beef,

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Speaker 1: so you're also doing better on that front. But you

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Speaker 1: add all of that up, and I've just taken your

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Speaker 1: last week's meals as the sort of fifty two week

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Speaker 1: meal plan, and that comes out to two point three tons.

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Speaker 1: So one point seven tons plus two point three tons

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Speaker 1: is four tons. Electricity is very interesting. The New York

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Speaker 1: State grid is about twice as carbon intensive as the

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Speaker 1: UK grid. I knew the UK grid is going to

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Speaker 1: be cleaner. We have a lot more wind over here,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't realize that difference would be that much.

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Speaker 1: And so taking that into consideration, your electricity consumption comes

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Speaker 1: out to be about one point five tons of c

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Speaker 1: or two emissions, so that's five point five tons. You

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Speaker 1: live like a European in America.

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Speaker 3: That's so exciting. Can I get it on a T

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Speaker 3: shirt or something.

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Speaker 1: If we are generous and we add the cheese and

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Speaker 1: the purchases and give you another ton, you're still much

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Speaker 1: closer to a European than an American.

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Speaker 2: But largely because I mean, which would you say is

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Speaker 2: the factor that most differentiates me?

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Speaker 3: Driving?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in the case of other American average Americans, driving

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Speaker 1: makes the biggest difference because people drive a lot in America.

404
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Speaker 1: You know, many people drive two hours a day and

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of driving. So yeah, I think the

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Speaker 1: biggest difference would be driving and flying. My biggest problem

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Speaker 1: is flying.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's going to ask did you do your own

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Speaker 2: calculation so we can compare notes and then shame each other.

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Speaker 1: So yes, I mean the problem with me was, you know,

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Speaker 1: on a vegetarian diet, like the carbon footprint is so

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Speaker 1: low that it doesn't matter, Like it literally is zo

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Speaker 1: point to one to two tons, you know, when you're

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Speaker 1: eating lentils and grassy food. I suppose rice would probably

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Speaker 1: be the thing that contributes more. Rice has a carbon

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Speaker 1: footprint because in the production of rice you do generate methane.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't actually do my own because I don't

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Speaker 1: do meal tracking, so there was no easy way for

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Speaker 1: me to calculate my food habits.

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Speaker 3: Sure, these are the excuses that people come up with.

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Speaker 1: Okshod well, I think, But to me, it's for me.

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Speaker 1: It's a very simple answer.

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Speaker 3: Flyless.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my flight emissions because I have to travel for work.

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Speaker 1: I have family in India, so I'm doing at least

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Speaker 1: one trip to India every year. That in itself just

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Speaker 1: counteracts all the other things that I And that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean I shouldn't keep doing those things. You know, when

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Speaker 1: I went for a driving trip, I took an electric car.

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Speaker 1: When I fly, I don't fly business because businesses twice

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Speaker 1: the emissions of a normal economy flight. So there are

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Speaker 1: ways in which I can be conscious. But just a

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Speaker 1: sheer fact of flying means my emissions are high.

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Speaker 3: How do you think about that?

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Speaker 2: As I mean, like this is the question, right, I

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Speaker 2: think flying is a really good example of something where

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Speaker 2: like the obvious answers right there, just take less flights.

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Speaker 2: But practically that's not practical or you know, you have

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Speaker 2: to do it for work, you have to see your family,

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Speaker 2: so you know going forward, this is going to be

441
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 2: the thing that knocks you out disproportionately in terms of

442
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 2: your individual footprint.

443
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 3: How do you like reconcile that in your mind?

444
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: So flying is one thing that to me from the

445
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 1: very first flight I took, which was not until I

446
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 1: was fifteen years old. Was a joyous experience. I still

447
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: am mad if I don't get a window seat. I

448
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 1: am always amazed, even now after having taken I don't

449
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 1: know one hundred flights by now, by the sheer fact

450
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,479
Speaker 1: that we are flying in a tin can thirty thousand

451
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: feet above the earth. To me, it's amazing that I

452
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: can sit in a plane and in a few hours

453
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 1: I'm in a different country with a different culture, with

454
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 1: different cuisine. And I would like humanity to be able

455
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: to fly without having to worry about the carbon footprint.

456
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: What can I do personally about it? Not very much.

457
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: We had venkat Visvanathan, a professor of batteries, on this

458
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: podcast earlier to talk about how electric planes could be

459
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: coming soon and that will help at least short haul

460
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: flights become greener. There is a big movement around making

461
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: sustainable aviation fuels happen. So if you can figure out

462
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: ways in which the fuels that we do burn in

463
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 1: planes can be low carbon, then we've got a way

464
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 1: to cut carbon emissions. But fundamental physics of flying means

465
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: that we are going to have to rely on some

466
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: form of liquid fuels that are carbon based, so technology

467
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: has to come and help us deal with the flying problem.

468
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 1: But we should also recognize flying as a whole is

469
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: still about two to three percent of global emissions. So yes,

470
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: on a personal level, flying probably is eighty percent of

471
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: my emissions, but on a global level, flying is still

472
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: a small portion of emissions.

473
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: That was the most journalist answer then you've given me,

474
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 2: But I think you accidentally gave me the regular person answer,

475
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: which is, you have a behavior that you know is

476
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 2: disproportionately contributing to your individual carbon footprint. You also know that,

477
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 2: like on a grand scale, it's not the thing that's

478
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 2: going to move the needle, and you can't stop doing it.

479
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 2: What do you do, and what I'm hearing you say

480
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 2: is pay attention to the way in which it's evolving

481
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: a lot of these things are changing over time, and

482
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: it's just not there yet the sort of cleaner version.

483
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 3: And so watch it.

484
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 2: Try where you can. I'm sure you're not. I hope

485
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 2: you're not fling from London to Paris on the regular.

486
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 2: Maybe take trains when you can, or you know, like

487
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: do things that mitigate a little bit in the meantime.

488
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 3: And then the last one, I've never heard you say,

489
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 3: which I love, which is joy.

490
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're familiar with Marie Condo to

491
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: sort of like find the joy and throw out the

492
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 2: things that aren't giving you joy. I love the idea

493
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 2: of like sort of a Marie Condo for your carbon vices,

494
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: that if you are going to do something that is emitting,

495
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 2: it better be something that brings you a lot of joy,

496
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 2: and it should not be Oh, I didn't care, So

497
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 2: I got the plastic forks that the takeout like it

498
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 2: should be that you really love that thing and that

499
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: you feel present and engaged with it in that moment.

500
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: And I think that is actually kind of a high

501
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 2: bar that I haven't been applying. That is interesting to

502
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: think about applying as someone's trying to move forward in

503
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: this moment.

504
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: You have just done what anybody listening should realize a

505
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: good editor does of a reporter. They take the mass

506
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: of information in their head and allow them to see

507
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: what the real story is.

508
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, what I heard you say is it's a classic.

509
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: A classic editor moved for sure.

510
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 1: And so if I turn the tables to you and

511
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: and say, if there was one thing you could do

512
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: to cut your carbon emissions, what would.

513
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 2: That be I'm in kind of a similar position as

514
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: you in that the things that I could change most

515
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 2: effectively are not the things that would necessarily move the

516
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: needle on a grand scale. So, as we were talking

517
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 2: about consumption, the things you buy, it's sort of nebulous

518
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 2: what that's doing. But I don't need to dig into

519
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: the numbers to know that ordering things on Amazon is

520
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: just like not always the necessary thing. I buy clothing

521
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: much more often than I need to, and I fully

522
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 2: get sucked into this sort of mentality that, like, you

523
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: should be constantly getting new stuff. So for me, I

524
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: think there's a mindset shift that if I stepped away

525
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: from newness as an idea, as something that I valued

526
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 2: as much, that I would find myself quite naturally buying

527
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 2: a lot less stuff. And that goes back to the

528
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 2: sort of cultural shifts that it's not always about a

529
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: specific productor or it's not always about telling people like,

530
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: just buyline stuff, but helping them see that, oh, you're

531
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 2: placing value on something that is actually not the most

532
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: important thing, and so cutting back on those types of

533
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 2: purchases would probably be up there for me.

534
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 3: I won't give my meat is the issue I.

535
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: Think in the largest scheme of things. People who do

536
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: have children who I've talked to, have thought about this.

537
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: In a world that's going to be warming, whether bringing

538
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: children to experience that world is a good thing. That's

539
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,239
Speaker 1: an ethical question. If we were to just count our

540
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: lives in carbon, having children does make the children have

541
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: a carbon footprint. So you have created a consumer that

542
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: is going to be burning carbon and those emissions kind

543
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: of come back to you. So how do you think

544
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: about children as an equation in the nebulous concept of

545
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: a carbon footprint?

546
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, for me personally, it's not the climate is not

547
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: a factor. It's about keeping my Amazon and cheese habit going, really,

548
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 2: But I hear from my friends who are parents who

549
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 2: are thinking about becoming parents that is absolutely something they

550
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: think about in terms of the emissions footprint. Like I

551
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 2: just to go back to our conversation about the growth

552
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: or consumption, Like in the realm of things that you

553
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: can tell people or can't tell people to just stop doing.

554
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: It feels very impractical to me to tell people to

555
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: stop perpetuating the species. So I just feel like people

556
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: are going to have kids is a foregone conclusion and

557
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: we should start from that place. And it is a

558
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 2: really personal decision with a lot of other factors. I

559
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 2: would go back to the thing that we were talking

560
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: about when we were talking about your flying habit or

561
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: my consumption habits. Learn try joy right, like learn about

562
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 2: the best ways to be you know, I'm doing air quotes,

563
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 2: you're sustainable parent, all of these products, all of these

564
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: things that you need to do or buy. There are

565
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 2: options there that are better than other options. Try the

566
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 2: best you can with what you have available to you,

567
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 2: and find joy in the things that you're doing. And

568
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 2: I really hope that everyone who has kids, I'm sure

569
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: they're not thinking about them in the terms of their

570
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: emissions put from all the time, but when they do, like, inarguably,

571
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 2: this is something that brings you so much joy and

572
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: is so important to you and critical to your life

573
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: that it is worth it to have those trade offs.

574
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 2: The other side of that equation in terms of how

575
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 2: you reconcile the world we're in and what's going to

576
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 2: happen in the next twenty thirty years with raising a

577
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 2: kid that I don't know, I mean, I am not

578
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: a parent. I do not envy them that challenge. I

579
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: also think kids will lead this conversation they're going to

580
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 2: be really close to it in a way that their

581
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: parents weren't. I know we say that about every generation,

582
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: but it's increasingly true. And I think they're going to

583
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 2: force change in a way that then maybe we didn't.

584
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: So it is a quintessential example of these things are

585
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: nuanced and there aren't easy answers, and they're emotional, and

586
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: it is unrealistic to talk about them in black and

587
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 2: white terms, or to talk about them as pure value

588
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 2: judgments on people if they're not making decisions purely from

589
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 2: an emission standpoint, because to do so would not only

590
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 2: be impractical for all of us, but it's not something

591
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: any of us are really doing except for maybe a

592
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: very very very tiny percentage of people.

593
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a metapoint here, which is that there is

594
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: a tendency to feel like when we talk about these

595
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: topics there needs to be a neat answer that Okay,

596
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: you talked about it at length, now tell us yes

597
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: or no. And there just doesn't need to be that

598
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: pressure on a question of this kind because it's a

599
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: very personal question. And b because even if you did

600
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: all the math, there is actually no right answer. That's

601
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: because children that do come into being at this time,

602
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: are just going to be much more informed. You know,

603
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: I learned about climate change as a student in high school,

604
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: but didn't really think that much about it until I

605
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: was in college. And so when one of our colleagues

606
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: came up and asked me the question whether you know

607
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: she should have children or not, my answer was, well,

608
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: I know that your kids will know what climate change

609
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: is and how to work on solutions, and we need

610
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: more of those kids. So never think about climate as

611
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: a problem for whether you should have children or not.

612
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 3: I agree with that.

613
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: I also think they will live in a world where

614
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: the lens of climate change is applied to everything in

615
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: a way that like we just don't we're starting to

616
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 2: feel that now, but I just think it'll be different.

617
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: And some of that be the normalization of things like

618
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: you know, extreme heat days in addition to snow days,

619
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 2: or just little things that kids will experience, And some

620
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: of it will be the normalization of new behaviors, Like

621
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: I think anyone who's a kid today will think it's

622
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: insane that we drove gas cars.

623
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: Will be like, what do you mean you put.

624
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: Liquid gas into your car with your hands, Like they'll

625
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: just think it's stupid. And I think that there will

626
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: be a lot of examples of that too, where behaviors

627
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: that are changing or technologies that are changing will feel

628
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: quite normal. And some of these culture wars or the

629
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: tendency we have to hold on or cling to the

630
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: old thing, it will be irrelevant because to kids it

631
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: won't make a difference. So I think they will be

632
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: surrounded by this conversation for better or worse, and can

633
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: engage with it in a really productive way.

634
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: So one thing for me as a journalist covering climate

635
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: change for the past seven years has been that every

636
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: year has been different. The topics that I focused on,

637
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: that the world focuses on changes, how we talk about them,

638
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: to what depths we talk about them has changed. Whether

639
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: we think one thing is good and another bad changes,

640
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: and so it's been a fascinating subject to cover. Having

641
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: done greener living for the past year, what is it

642
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: that you've learned and what have you changed your mind about?

643
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 2: I don't know that I've changed my mind about things.

644
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: I think in a way because you are often closer

645
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: to the technology and the science, like the things are

646
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: changing rapidly, and some of green are living is that,

647
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 2: but some of it is sort of dealing in the

648
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: universal truths, which is people are more likely to make

649
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: changes that are convenient for them or cheaper for them

650
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: or cooler for them, and applying that framework to all

651
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: kinds of different products. I think the thing that I've

652
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 2: actually changed the most is the way that I talk

653
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: about climate change when I'm with my friends or I'm

654
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: outside of a bloomberg green setting, which is I used

655
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: to and I think a lot of people do this.

656
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: You bring the topic up almost apologetically in advance. You

657
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: sort of know you're being a Debbie downer, and you're like,

658
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: I gotta raise this thing, and everyone goes want well,

659
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 2: sort of looks at you like that, and I think

660
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: that is actually a more insidious default behavior for a

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00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: lot of us then we realize. When the wildfire smoke

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00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: was happening in New York, we wrote a story where

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00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: we talked to the head of the Climate Emergency Fund,

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00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: which funds a lot of these big activism groups, and

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00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: she talked about the spiral of silence, the idea that

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00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 2: you sort of see everyone around you normalizing something like

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00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: the sky is orange and we can't breathe, and they're

668
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: not talking about climate change, so you're like, Okay, well,

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00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: I guess we're just rolling with the punches here, and

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00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: you all do it, and you keep doing it, and

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00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: you sort of keep going, and I think we have

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00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: to live in a world where simultaneously, of course, you're

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00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 2: keeping going, like we're not going to stop every time

674
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: something's happening, but you're still having the conversation, and you're

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00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: taking these moments and using them as inflection points to

676
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: raise the conversation and not apologizing for raising the conversation

677
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: because it's important and it's okay to be emotional and

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00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,239
Speaker 2: angry and frustrated about it. So I think that's one

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00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: of the things that I've learned from myself is that

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00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 2: I'm sure my friends expect me as a climate editor

681
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 2: to come in and bring up climate change, and I'm

682
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 2: doing it and I'm not apologizing for it, and I

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00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 2: think more of us should be doing that.

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00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: That speaks very well to a shortcut that I've had

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00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: whenever people have asked me what should I do to

686
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: try and tackle climate change, and my list of things

687
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: to them is usually number one, talk about climate change.

688
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: Number two, vote for the right politician, number three, fly less,

689
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: number four eat less meat if you can do those

690
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: four things, almost everything else that you could be doing

691
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: will get greener because of the first four things that

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00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: you've done.

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00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: If it wouldn't be bad for the environment, I would

694
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: suggest we put that on tote bag or something, but

695
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: we'll just keep it.

696
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 3: In our minds.

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Speaker 1: Well. Thank you, Kira, Thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: This was great.

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00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: One thing that listeners should know is Kira is our

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00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: podcast editor in a way, because she's the one who

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00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: we all go to when we are in crisis or

702
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: we need to check whether something should be published or not,

703
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: and she just makes our lives and this podcast so

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00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: much better.

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Speaker 3: Thanks action.

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00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,959
Speaker 1: I feel very fortunate to have Kira as my editor

707
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: and that she's also someone I can talk to about

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00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: climate change pretty casually. It makes a huge difference, and

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00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: I hope that you have someone like that too. If

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00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: you want to check out all the great articles that

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00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: Kira mentioned, they are linked in the show notes. Thanks

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00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: so much for listening to Zero. If you liked this episode,

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00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: please take a moment to rate and review on Apple

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00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: Podcasts or Spotify, send it to a friend, or send

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00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: it to someone who you want to talk to about

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00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: climate change. Get in touch at zero pod at Bloomberg.

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00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: Dot net Zero's producer is Oscar Boyd and senior producer

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00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: is Christine Driskell. Our theme music is composed by wonderly

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00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: special thanks this week to Jilda Decarli and as always,

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Speaker 1: Kira bindram I am Akshatrati back next week