1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: I see you were wearing a trial a byte today. 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: I am. And it's an awesome necklace. It's actually made 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: by Lucy Lamb. That's my sister. Yeah, I was gonna say, um, 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: your sister l u c y E Lamb, And it 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: is so cool. It's a it's a trial byte that 9 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: she actually created by looking at diagrams and picture. She 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: doesn't actually have the fossil itself, but she did this 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: out of clay polymer, and um, it is so awesome. 12 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: If you guys want to check it out, go to 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: her at sea shop. But it is officially the mascot 14 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: of today's podcast. Yes, the trial by is, of course 15 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: a denizen of the Ordovician period. This is an ancient 16 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: period of Earth that I barely remember from science class. 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: Generally it would get one illustration and it's kind of this, uh, 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: this world of weird squitty creatures and strange looking, brutal 19 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: looking fish. And of course the trial byte and the 20 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: trial byde always had sort of center stage in these. So, yeah, 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: my sister sent you this necklace and um yeah, she's 22 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: on Etsy Lucy Lamb Designs. So it's it's kind of 23 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: the the mascot for today's episode. And I do understand 24 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: that your your daughter named the Trial byde as well. 25 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: She does. Yeah, I wish she did. And she plays 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: with a watch. She calls it gong and it has 27 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: many adventures. But that's how one should arrest the imagination. 28 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, even a three year old 29 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: is like whoa, And it does kind of put you 30 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: in the mindset of, Okay, if if this creature was 31 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: hanging out during this era, what was this era like? 32 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: And as you say, it's it's kind of one of 33 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: those periods that gets passed over. Um, you know, Jurassic 34 00:01:55,320 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: is much sexier, but it is very interesting and we 35 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: sort of sort of got our attention when we were 36 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: reading the book Cracking, which talks about stephalopods, and in 37 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: it the author describes the period as for a while, 38 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: the seeds were deliciously warm, and the planet seems to 39 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: have been a kind of garden of eaten, a time 40 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: of nirvana that allowed life to flourish in many different forms, 41 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: and this became a very uh important intersection of how 42 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: life developed. Even though again this is not what the 43 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: sexiest period um. The seeds were teeming with creatures. Yeah, 44 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: and as well as we'll discuss these creatures, as small 45 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: and non flashy as they often are, they really laid 46 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: the groundwork for the many more diverse species that would 47 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: come in the ages to follow. It's really a fascinating 48 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: time period when you when you when you take the 49 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: time to to really think about what it was like 50 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: four million years ago, an age of supercontinents and shallow 51 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: oceans and for them part up until the end, generally 52 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: nice warm, rich times. Yeah. And we're talking about a 53 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: period of about forty five million years, so a lot 54 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: obviously went on during this time period. But let's just 55 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: do a quick overview of the geologic time skill um 56 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: because this, you know, in case anybody's wondering, like, okay, 57 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: now Jurassic, I know about davisian Um. What I wanted 58 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: to talk about is that geologists have been working on 59 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: this since the eighteen hundreds, this idea that we can 60 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: organize Earth time, or deep time as they call it, 61 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: the Earth's history, and it starts with something called boundary events. 62 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: And a good example of this is the boundary between 63 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: the Permian and the Triassic. Well, now, first of all, 64 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: how old is the Earth? Because the guy at a 65 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: parade the other day tell me it was two thousand 66 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: years over. That doesn't found right, so that I'd check it. 67 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: I think it's a bit older than that, about four 68 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: points million years um. Yeah, And so obviously you have 69 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,839 Speaker 1: to arrange that amount of time. And again we called 70 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: that deep time. So I have something like twenty one 71 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: different periods. Yeah, within these boundary events. And the boundary 72 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: events are marked by global extinction, for instance, and that 73 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: would be between the Permian and Triassic. Uh, there's the 74 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: global extinction in which a large percentage of the plants 75 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: and animal species were eliminated. Another example is the boundary 76 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: between Precambrian in the Paleozoic, which is marked by the 77 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: first appearance of animals with hard parts, so we're thinking insects, fish, reptiles. 78 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: And then within that construct there are eons, eras and periods, 79 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: and then even in shorter term periods of epochs. So 80 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: we are talking about the ordificiam period to today. And 81 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: as you say, uh, four hundred million in change. Uh 82 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: some accounts eight million years ago, lasting for about forty 83 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: five million years in this warm, soupy, wonderful atmosphere, very 84 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: tropical that ushered in so many different species because of 85 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: this climate. Robert B. Laughlin wrote an excellent article called 86 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: what the Earth Knows in the American Scholar and he 87 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: gets into a lot of deep issues, but he starts 88 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: off by really wanting to to drive home exactly how 89 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: big geologic time is and and you know what kind 90 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: of time periods we're talking here, and he uses precipitation 91 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: to do it. And I'm not going I'll link to 92 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: the article in the blog posted the companies this episode, 93 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: but just to hit two real key points on there. 94 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: He points out that the total precipitation that falls in 95 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: the world in one year is about one meter of 96 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: rain the height of a golden retriever from now. He 97 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: adds to the total amount of rain that has fallen 98 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: in the world since the Industrial Revolution is about two 99 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: hundred meters the height of the Hoover Dam. The amount 100 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: of rain that has fallen in the world since the 101 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: time of Moses is enough to fill up all the oceans. 102 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: The amount of rain that has fallen on the world 103 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: since the ice Age ended is enough to fill up 104 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: all the oceans four times. The amount of rain that 105 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: has fallen in the world since the dinosaurs died, that's 106 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: enough to fill up all the oceans twenty thousand times, 107 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: or the entire volume of the Earth three times, whichever, 108 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: you know, what you choose. And then he says that 109 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: the amount of rain that has fallen in the world 110 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: sent its coal formed is enough to fill up the 111 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: earth fifteen times, and the amount of rain that has 112 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: fallen on the world since oxygen formed is enough to 113 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: fill the Earth a hundred times. So yeah, and he 114 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: he goes on to talk a bit more about how 115 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: geologists and scientists try to figure out what was present 116 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: in the atmosphere at different times in the world's history, 117 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: and if you're interested in it, again, the article is 118 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: great to go into a little bit more detail about 119 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: how we can extract this data. But I did want 120 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: to mention something called stratigraphy, and these are techniques used 121 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: by geologists to determine the geologic time scale. And something 122 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: that is quite common that it is used is something 123 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: called radiometric dating. Now, this is a comparison between the 124 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: naturally occurring radioactive isotope, which is a variant of a 125 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: particular chemical and a material, and it's decay products using 126 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: decay rates. So a good example of this radiocarbon dating 127 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: is if you took a plant from you don't know 128 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: at this point, but maybe it was d thousand years 129 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: ago with plant material, and that plant material, when it 130 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: was alive, would absorb a quantity of carbon dioxide during photosynthesis, 131 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: and this quantity actually matches the level of the carbon 132 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: isotope in the atmosphere at that time. And then when 133 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: the plant dies, it quits amassing radioisotope carbon fourteen specifically, 134 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: and the isotope begins to decay. So we know this 135 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: decay rate allows us to determine when in time the 136 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: plant existed in what the atmosphere was like, which is 137 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: really so cool that we have these sort of instruments 138 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: available to us. And that's just one part of stratigraphy. Yeah, 139 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: the the indeed, stratigraphy basically boils down to layers, comes 140 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: down to going diving down through the layers of sediment 141 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: that have built up over the ages and seeing what 142 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: was going on at different levels in the past. Kind 143 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: of like a really dirty room, say like a six 144 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: year old kid's room. It's just got toys playered everywhere, 145 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: stomic books, bits of food and mucus and all the 146 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: things that come out of the secure. And you were 147 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: to go in and and start peeling it back and 148 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: seeing what happened, what point during the last forty eight 149 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: hours that all this accumulated. Yeah, it's funny to think 150 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: of it that way, because I think oftentimes when we 151 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: think about the Earth, we think of it as a 152 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: static thing. But you don't realize that they are these 153 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: layers of sediment that we continue to add a sort 154 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: of like dust falling on a surface. And this is 155 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: called bio stratigraphy. It's the fossil evidence in rock layers. 156 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: And if you look at something called graptolights, these are 157 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: extinct plank tonic organisms. They have been and they still 158 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: are used to correlate the ortivisian strata. Yeah, I mean, 159 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: certainly for me, the big thing that always drives home 160 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: geology is anytime I'm in a mountainous area and you 161 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: see that fossil remnant of some ancient seedwelling creature, and 162 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: and it lets you know that what is now a 163 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: mountaintop or or the side of a mountain was once 164 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: the bottom of the sea's and that that alone always 165 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: just really drives it home for meat. Yeah, there's a 166 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: lot of common sense. And then just looking at it 167 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: with the naked eye. Yeah, vast periods of time, but 168 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: periods of vast change when you look at it all together. Okay, 169 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: So back into the time machine. We are now in 170 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: the Ordivisian period, and as we have known it before, 171 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: it is warm climate. Most of the earth is covered 172 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: in water, and um, you know, we've got deep water, 173 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: we've got shallow water, and all sorts of little organisms 174 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: growing in that. Yeah. And since I knew I was 175 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: taking a trip in the time machine, I did bring 176 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: my smartphone with me with his GPS, and it's just 177 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: completely going nuts. It has no idea where I am 178 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: or even what continent I'm at I'm on. And one 179 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: of the reasons is because this is an age of supercontinents, 180 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: where particularly we have a very large one by the 181 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: name of Gondwana, which includes most of the land masses 182 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: in today's southern hemisphere, including Antarctica, South America, Africa, Madagascar, 183 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: and the Australian continent as well as some other little 184 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: bits like the Arabian Peninsula and the Indian subcontinent, which 185 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: have you know, since moved their separate ways. And so 186 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: you've got this super continent. You also have this atmosphere 187 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: which has carbon dioxide levels that are believed to have 188 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: been between eight and twenty times their current values. And uh, 189 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: we have the land which is pretty barren. Yeah, and 190 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: a lot of it is underwater or at least a 191 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: little bit underwater, shallow seas in a lot of places. Yeah. 192 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: So if you were standing there in the earth at 193 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: this time and just imagine looking around you, obviously there 194 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't be any animals, it wouldn't be in any insects 195 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: flying in the air. Um. What we do have is 196 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: something called tetrahedral spores, and they're similar to those of 197 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: primitive land plants like mosses. And that suggests that plants 198 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: invaded the land at this time. And we have a 199 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: few animals and plants that began to explore the margins 200 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: of the land, but nothing really colonizing beyond the beachheads. Yeah, 201 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: it was. It was an age of underwater life, um, 202 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of this life began in the previous age. 203 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: The Cambrian, so most of the main branches existed then, 204 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,359 Speaker 1: but it was it was during this age the artivision, 205 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: that things really begin to branch out at the family 206 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: and genus level. And as we had mentioned before, we've 207 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: got those graptolites and trilobites, early arthropods. We have brachiopods 208 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: also knows as lamp shells, and continents, which are early vertebrates. 209 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: They're also red and green algae, very very festive, primitive fish, cephalopods, corals, 210 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: cronoids which are these sea lilies with feeding arms that 211 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: are very surreal looking, in something called gastro pods, which 212 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: are pretty much snails and slugs. And you know, within 213 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 1: this network you have extensive reef complexes in the tropics. 214 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: One of the critters that you may remember from that 215 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: one illustration in your elementary school science book is the indusserita, 216 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: which is an extinct not alloid creature similar to the 217 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: modern day nautilus, except the shell kind of looks like 218 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: an ice cream cone, so they kind of look like 219 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: ice cream cone squid. So that was one of the 220 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: creatures that definitely had an impact on me when I 221 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: was a little Well, an impact is saying well, putting 222 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: it a little too strongly. Uh. I noticed it at 223 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: least when I was a kid, because it's like, hey, 224 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: look at that squid. It's like it's like a ice 225 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: cream cut. I think that's one of the things that 226 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: captured my imagination is the fact that there are so 227 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: many creatures during this period that have since gone extinct. 228 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: Um And we'll talk a little bit about that later, 229 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: but I mean, it kind of boggles on mine to 230 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: think of the different sorts of configurations and designs of 231 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: these creatures, many of the in many of these like 232 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: you said, these are the roots of all modern day life. 233 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: But but yeah, just so many of these things are 234 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: extinct now. I mean, you have a few survivors of sorts. 235 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: You have the horseshoe crab, of course, which has really 236 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: been a successful design that hasn't needed any update in 237 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: the ages. For the most part, your modern Nautilus is 238 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: a call back to the cephalopods of that ancient day. 239 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: As we discussed in our Cracking episode, the trio byte 240 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: itself is pretty amazing when you think about how many 241 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: different forms of trialobyte there were in those days. There's 242 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty thousand species of trialo bye, 243 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: and we're finding new species of them every day. The 244 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: smallest known trial about species is under a millimeter long, 245 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: while the largest ones includes species from thirty to seventy 246 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: centimeters in link roughly a foot or two in length 247 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: you want to translate that. So that's pretty amazing too, 248 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: because I used to think of trial by was just 249 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: there's the trial by. That was just one little critter 250 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: that we just haven't to have a lot of fossils 251 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: of today. But it's just a catch off for a 252 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: number of species. Yeah, it was the reason. The reason 253 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: for that is because if you say twenty different species, 254 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: and then of course you can see why it's so 255 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: successful because sort of winnowing its way through the ages 256 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what was working was not 257 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: working so successful. And that's the other thing so successful. 258 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: In the time, this was a time when trial abouts 259 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: could just pretty much own the sea, and that their 260 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: ownership of it really didn't last too terribly long. I 261 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: mean longer than I guess human ownership of anything has lasted, 262 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: but certainly they're not around today. Well, and I'm thinking 263 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 1: that a jaw bone might have something to do with this, 264 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: and we're going to take a break, but when we 265 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: get back, we are going to talk about how we 266 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: owe our jaws to the ordivision period. All right, we're 267 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 1: back and we're talking about the jawbone and how the 268 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: jaw bone really doesn't become a thing until we're smack 269 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: dab in the middle of the ortivision period. So what 270 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: did things have before jaws? Well, okay, you have to 271 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: you have to think back, all right, imagine again these sees. 272 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: Most of the animals that are really ruling it here 273 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: are things like trial bias, are things like cephalopods. And 274 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: you do have some fish, but they're very primitive fish 275 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: and they do not have jaws. They have more like 276 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: slits and they're pretty cool looking if you look up 277 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: some of the image of these um. The Ortivisian fish 278 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: have large bony shields on their head. They have small 279 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: rod shaped or plate like scales covering their tail. They 280 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: look they're like armored fish. But they just have that 281 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: slit like mouth and it really limits what they can do. 282 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: To put a fine point on it, here, they cannot 283 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: run the roost. Here, they have no chance that dominance 284 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: because it's the it's it's the cephalopods that are eating everything, 285 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: those of the dominant predators. All these slit mouths fish 286 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: can do is just run around and hope that a 287 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: squid doesn't grab them. But with the development of the jaw, 288 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: this changes everything. Suddenly they are the ones who can 289 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: start becoming the dominant predators in the ocean. And it 290 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: really gives the scale. I have this image of a 291 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: James bonen Villain jaws I think it was and uh, 292 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: and now I'm imagining these these primitive fish with these 293 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: giant but you can see where the advantage would come in. Um. 294 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: There was actually a genome duplication during this period that 295 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: allowed the ancestral gill arches to modify themselves into jaws. 296 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: And as you said, this made an enormous impact because 297 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: these early vertebrates went from being prey of invertebrates in 298 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: the ocean to dominant predators in their own right. So 299 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: we can definitely point to that development and say thank you, 300 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: because can you imagine us without jawbones. Uh, we obviously 301 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't be successful as a species. We just be mumbling 302 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: around naked while squid and other or some sort of 303 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: highly developed squid. I guess ruled over us, which is 304 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: everything would be mashed in baby food. Yeah, I mean 305 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: that made some people. That may be your fantasy, but 306 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: it can be convenient. It can be convenient, I guess, 307 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: you know, being hand fed or technacal fed mush by 308 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: your squid overlord. But I'm kind of glad it turned 309 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: out the way it did. But that's not all. There 310 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: are a number of adaptations that we can We can 311 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: look back to the Ortivisian period and say that's that's 312 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: where that made it onto the blueprint. So here are 313 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: just a few of the things that occurred in the 314 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: Ordivisian period which we can look to in our own 315 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: bodies and say this is when it made it on 316 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: the blueprint. Divisions going on inside the brain, the actual 317 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: way that our brain is divided. We can look back 318 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: to that period and say this is when those divisions 319 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: begin to take place. You look to our immune system. 320 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: You can look at things like the clotting factor. You 321 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: can look at more complex evolved immune systems, uh, such 322 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: as anybody's caroteen and skin became more numerous kidneys became 323 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: popular all of a sudden, UH. And the thing to 324 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: do in the Ordivision period exactly. It's like suddenly you 325 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: need a kidney. So we started developing them additional skull 326 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: elements again like the jaw, the lens and iris of 327 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: the eye, the inner workings of the ear, and interestingly 328 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: enough blood vessels that actually go to the heart. Yeah. 329 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: So again here's the base machinery that we have, I 330 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: guess you called the base model of the human being 331 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: being developed during this period. Even though most of the 332 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: stuff is going to die out, the changes that take 333 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: place here are going to influence the next phase, that's right. 334 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: And as you say, die out is is a huge 335 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: marker of this period. As we know, the ordivision and 336 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: began with shallow, warm seas. But the end of the 337 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: period experienced a five hundred thousand year long ice age 338 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: and this was triggered by the drift of the supercontinent, 339 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, Gondwana to the south polar regions. Yeah. 340 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: That's the thing about this you look back on it, 341 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: it's like this paradise where all these little creatures, unknowingly 342 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: are just they're just living it up in this the 343 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: shallow seas of Gondwana. And meanwhile, Goodwin that is steadily 344 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: making its way on this path of doom towards the 345 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: southern tip of the planet. Yeah, and that's what ended 346 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: up with our mass extinction here of some estimates of 347 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: sixty of marine life wiped out. The not the trial bytes. 348 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: They got to live another day in another period. But 349 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: the end of the period was marked by a glaciation event, 350 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: and it's called the her Nation glaciation. And this is 351 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: when we saw a drop in sea levels and eventually 352 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: like glaciers across large chunks of Africa and South America. Okay, 353 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: so this has been driving scientists nuts because they're not 354 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: quite sure why glaciation would occur because it's a high 355 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: c O two level defined by the high CEO two. 356 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: So you have a natural greenhouse factor going on, which 357 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: is we all know tends to melt glaciers and in 358 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: cost global warming, right, would have this this warm climates. 359 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: They're saying, why would there be a sudden change and 360 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: there we say sudden deep time. And again this period 361 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,479 Speaker 1: was forty five million years long. Um. But there is 362 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: a couple of scientists, and in particular Timothy Linton of 363 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: the College of Life and Environmental Sciences at the University 364 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: of Exeter, and he put up this theory, and that 365 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: proposes that the first land plants may have caused a 366 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: drop in CEO two levels, bringing about the glaciation and 367 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: indirectly causing the extinction event in the oceans. So they're 368 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: saying that if you look toward these or if you 369 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: look to early mosses, that they may have released large 370 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: amounts of nutrients into the oceans causing vast algile blooms. Okay, 371 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: would no big deal, right, except for that these agile 372 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: blooms will then absorb a lot of the CEO two 373 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: in the atmosphere and that causes the climate to turn 374 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: colder abruptly sort of and then bringing about the end 375 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: or Visian mass extinction. So along with this, though, ironically, 376 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: is that when the oceans cooled a bit, even more 377 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: life proliferated at first because you could have more diversification 378 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: with these cooler climates. But of course as that became 379 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: more and more intense, which you have is less and 380 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: less regions of the oceans actually being very hospitable. And 381 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: then of course what is surviving is then you know, 382 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: trying to get the same sort of food source, and 383 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: that's went in with this mass extinction. So that's one theory. 384 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: It is still somewhat of a mystery. And actually, if 385 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: you look at all different periods of time and you 386 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: see extinction um and certainly we think about the dinosaurs, 387 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: we are still struggling to find out exactly what went on. Yeah, 388 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: there's another theory that holds that tectonic activity lay to 389 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: increased weathering, which pulled carbon dioxide from the air and 390 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: cooled the climate, which then of course triggers the glaciers, 391 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: as we mentioned before. But again just one more theory 392 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: as to what exactly was happening here. Yeah, apparently the 393 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: Appalachian Mountains scientists or fingering and saying it's that tectonic 394 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: activity that actually was sort of the death though to 395 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: the atmosphere at that time. And certainly you do see 396 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: fossils when you're hiking up in the appellations. Indeed, So 397 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: there you go. There's a little introduction to the Ordivisian Period. 398 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: I hope that that would like me you maybe give 399 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: a little more a thought to that one illustration in 400 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: your elementary science book. Maybe you had two illustrations and 401 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: you were lucky, but I just had the one, and 402 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: realize that it's it's more than just one page, one 403 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: insignificant page out of Earth history, but a very important chapter. 404 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: And certainly, if you want to try to imagine alien worlds, 405 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: you can't do any better than looking back and dime 406 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: at the different phases of life on this planet. This 407 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: was really an alien world and certainly the kind of 408 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: thing we can conceivably find out there in the universe somewhere. 409 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: Can you imagine landing on an Ordivisian world somewhere and 410 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: experiencing this stepping and waiting through all of it. I 411 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: would just, like, I mean, just to be able to 412 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: scuba dive in those oceans would the amazing thing to see. Um, 413 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: So thank you guys for time traveling with us, and 414 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: and thank you Gong the trial bike for for accompanying us. Yeah. 415 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: Another thing about the trialobyte, by the way, just that 416 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: I was reading about, is that it is a fossil 417 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: that you can hold in your hand. And I think 418 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: that's one one reason that the trial byte resonates with us. 419 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: So because you know, things like like a Toronosaurus rex, 420 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,959 Speaker 1: it's a bunch of bones, you have to send all 421 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: this time assembling it, looking at it standing back. But 422 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: the Trialobyte you can hold this little piece of history, 423 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: this fossil in your hand, and there's something there's something 424 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: kind of magical about that. Well, and just I mean, 425 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: I'm looking at my necklace right now, and just even 426 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: looking at it, it reminds me it's so sculptural looking, 427 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: and it reminds me some of the Geiger stuff in 428 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: terms of like the exo skeleton, and I don't mean 429 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: Geiger and like the more horrific way, but the more sculptural, 430 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: like really beautiful parts of nature. Yeah, there's a kind 431 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: of biomechanical aspect to it, for sure. So so yeah, 432 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: thanks Lucy for us sending that in. Again, Lucy Lamb Designs, 433 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: she has a few of those on the site as well. 434 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: I think some of that are made out of black 435 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: polymer clay. Yeah, they're very cool. Yeah, yours is a 436 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: limited edition though it's white. No, and no one can 437 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: have it. All right, Well, let's call over the robot 438 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: and see if he has any mail for us to read. 439 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: All right, we received a couple of bits of email 440 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: regarding our map episodes. We have three of them that 441 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: we're recording this. Two of them have published. Really, we 442 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: heard from a listener by the name of Martinez. Martinez 443 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: rights in and says, Hi, Juliene Robert, it's Cam again 444 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: from the Philippines, and I was just listening to her 445 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: episode on maps. Like Julie, I adorn maps not only 446 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: because they're useful, but because I find them very aesthetically pleasing. 447 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: To be fair, I don't think all maps are beautiful, 448 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: but there's a lot that are quite beautiful, especially the 449 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: really old ones, the ones with here be dragons on 450 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: the ages, for instance, or the ones from the age 451 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: of Sail. They're not all accurate, especially compared to contemporary maps, 452 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: but I think they're a great visual reminder of the 453 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: time when the world seems so much larger and so 454 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: much more mysterious than it is now. I also completely 455 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: agree that maps alter the way we perceived the world. 456 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: It reminds me of a time during my undergrad when 457 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: my world literature professor showed a traditional version of the 458 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: world map, pointing out that Europe was in the rough center, 459 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: whereas the Philippines was somewhere on the edges. Almost like 460 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: an afterthought, the next map he showed was altered, and 461 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: it placed the Philippines and the rest of Southeast Asia 462 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: in the center and placing Europe in the United States 463 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: on the edges. That that image was revelatory, showing that 464 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 1: the iconic world map isn't as iconic as we thought, 465 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: but nearly one possible way of viewing the world one 466 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: made iconic because no one has ever really thought to 467 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: question it. If one would have put the Philippines and 468 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: Southeast Asia in the center, my professor asked, would we 469 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: be as dismissive of our own country and its culture? 470 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: Likely not. Finally, YouTube discussed maps and fantasy novels, and 471 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: I do have to say I love them as much 472 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: as I love real world maps. I like knowing where 473 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: the characters are at any given point in time. I'm 474 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: a big believer in geography playing a big role in storytelling, 475 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: so I like having maps when I can get them. 476 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: The more detailed, the better. But speaking of fictional worlds, 477 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 1: I'd like to ask, why hasn't Sci fi I caught 478 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: onto this yet? Sure, there are plenty of ships, plans 479 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: and such, especially from Star Wars and Star Trek, but 480 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: what about maps for all those countries set in fictional 481 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: planets that crop up so frequently in space opera type novels. 482 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: There's much talk of interplanetary and intergalactic empires, but why 483 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: has no sci fi rider thought to draft up a 484 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: map showing where all these planets lie. Just faster than 485 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: light travel render maps obsolete perhaps, but I would still 486 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: like to see maps for such empires, or at the 487 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: very least maps of the individual planets used in these stories. 488 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: The only one I know of was one that was 489 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: done for Star Trek, which showed almost all the planets 490 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: involved in all the series up to Deep Space nine, 491 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: I think, but they're just for Star Trek. If there 492 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: are any sci fi series out there with maps like that, 493 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: or even for just individual planets, I'd really like to 494 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: know anyway. Sorry for the long email. Thanks for the 495 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: great work you're both doing the podcast though, and I 496 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: hope you keep blowing our minds well. Thank you. There 497 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: was some lovely thoughts there on maps from Martino. Yeah, 498 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: that was great, and I'm glad that he brought up 499 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: the political aspect of maps too, because that's something we 500 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: could have done an entire podcast on. But that was 501 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: a good example of how we see the world. Yeah, 502 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: and again it gets down into that area we talked 503 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: about where you have a map as a vision of 504 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: the world as it is, but it's also a vision 505 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: of the world as it is perceived. What is the 506 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: center of our map? What is the center of our 507 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: place that we create out of this space? Like, that's 508 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: that's essential to our understanding of ourself and our understanding 509 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: of physical reality. So and our assumptions that we don't 510 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: even question until you know, someone says, hey, wait, that's 511 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: that's a bit off. Yeah. 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