1
00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,880
Speaker 1: Hey guys. Here we are back on normally the show

2
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,040
Speaker 1: with normalists takes so when your news gets weird. I'm

3
00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,720
Speaker 1: Mary Katheryne Neham and I'm Carol Markolitz.

4
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,200
Speaker 2: How's it going, Mary, Catherine?

5
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,880
Speaker 1: Oh, it's going good. I went to California and back

6
00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,120
Speaker 1: and I'm an old person now, so that means that

7
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 1: my back is not doing great, even though I had

8
00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,120
Speaker 1: great seating and great service and few delays. But you know,

9
00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just over the hill now. Yeah, it's

10
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,200
Speaker 1: I need a heating pad. I'm gonna be fine. Also,

11
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,919
Speaker 1: my husband is out of town, and now I am

12
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,720
Speaker 1: bereft of all the things that I need in this

13
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: house because, as you and I have discussed, I have

14
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 1: an effective husband, Like he's just like a logistics officer,

15
00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,360
Speaker 1: and he understands the flow of goods in and out

16
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 1: of this house in a way that I do not.

17
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,320
Speaker 1: And I went downstairs, I was like, there's no food here.

18
00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 1: What am I supposed to do?

19
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 2: So, yeah, my husband is also out of town. Less

20
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,440
Speaker 2: about the because I do the food shopping, but like

21
00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 2: the getting up super early and driving the kids to school,

22
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,400
Speaker 2: that's his job. I had to do it this morning.

23
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,520
Speaker 2: But a nightmare nightmared these kids.

24
00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, love to have an effective partner. It's very very

25
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,600
Speaker 1: helpful help Yeah, so you were fantastic on Real Time.

26
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,440
Speaker 2: You were really good. My favorite clip was the one

27
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,640
Speaker 2: where you're the only one on the panel who admits

28
00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,200
Speaker 2: to liking McDonald's. Bill Maher's like McDonald's is delicious, and

29
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 2: Chris Como and I didn't catch the woman's name. Yeah,

30
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,320
Speaker 2: they were like, what, No, it's not, and you were like, yeah,

31
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:37,640
Speaker 2: it is.

32
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 1: It obviously is so Cuomo, I guess like treats his

33
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,240
Speaker 1: body like a temple. And doctor Casey means who is

34
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,320
Speaker 1: the other speaker. She has a book out called Good

35
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,200
Speaker 1: Energy that's about metabolic health. I agree with her on

36
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,960
Speaker 1: basically all of these health issues. It's just that she's

37
00:01:55,040 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 1: much more disciplined than I am. She like lives by

38
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,280
Speaker 1: her philosophy more than I do. And yeah, I just

39
00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,280
Speaker 1: had to. You could see they cut to my face

40
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,320
Speaker 1: at one point while everyone on the panel is talking

41
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,800
Speaker 1: about how seldom they eat McDonald's and it cuts to me,

42
00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,880
Speaker 1: and my face is just like should I tell them

43
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 1: that I eat it at least once a week? So yes,

44
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,440
Speaker 1: I did you know? I applaud all of them for

45
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,240
Speaker 1: being so healthy. But I enjoy for sure my fast

46
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:24,519
Speaker 1: food and semi moderation.

47
00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, McDonald's is delicious. I don't have it that often.

48
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,239
Speaker 2: I have to admit, I, you know, and not. I

49
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,239
Speaker 2: wouldn't even say for health weason. I just like other

50
00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 2: fast food better. So I choose, you know, I'll choose

51
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 2: that over McDonald's Popeyes, Popeyes.

52
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 1: See I may as you know, McDonald's, Bojangles and waffle

53
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,680
Speaker 1: House devotee. So that's that. Yeah, I spread my past. Oh,

54
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:49,360
Speaker 1: I gotta.

55
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,960
Speaker 2: Bojangles has such a grip on my thinking of you,

56
00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,960
Speaker 2: Like anytime I see it, I think of you. Yes,

57
00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,320
Speaker 2: I think I send you all the time. Anytime I

58
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,919
Speaker 2: drive via j Angles, Like, look, visit boo Jangles.

59
00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,480
Speaker 1: I have taken some people on a pilgrimage. It is.

60
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:09,320
Speaker 1: It is an important part of knowing me. I think

61
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,000
Speaker 1: I still never been. Yeah, we gotta get you, we

62
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 1: gotta do it. Yeah all right, See, that's one of

63
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 1: the things DeSantis needs to do. Get bo Jingles in Florida,

64
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:18,680
Speaker 1: get on that, on that.

65
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:20,320
Speaker 2: What are you up to anyway?

66
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:21,800
Speaker 1: What is he doing with his time?

67
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,400
Speaker 2: There's not getting us aboard Jangles.

68
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,080
Speaker 1: There's there's some stuff going on. Shall we get to

69
00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 1: the news? Oh well, I want to play us a

70
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 1: little bit of a clip of Morning Joe, which is

71
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:40,160
Speaker 1: the MSNBC morning show hosted by Miga Berzinski and Joe Scarborough.

72
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 1: And it turns out they had some news this week,

73
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 1: which is that they went to mar A Lago. Let's

74
00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 1: hear a little bit about it.

75
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,760
Speaker 3: Over the past week, Joe and I have heard from

76
00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,880
Speaker 3: so many people, from political leaders to regular citizens, deeply

77
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 3: dismayed by several of President elect Trump's cabinet selections and

78
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,360
Speaker 3: they are scared. Last Thursday, we expressed our own concerns

79
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,160
Speaker 3: on this broadcast and even said we would appreciate the

80
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 3: opportunity to speak with the President elect himself. On Friday,

81
00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,600
Speaker 3: we were given the opportunity to do just that. Joe

82
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,720
Speaker 3: and I went to mar A Lago to meet personally

83
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:23,240
Speaker 3: with President elect Trump. It was the first time we

84
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,480
Speaker 3: have seen him in seven years now.

85
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,440
Speaker 4: We talked about a lot of issues, including abortion, mass deportation,

86
00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,960
Speaker 4: threats of political retribution against political opponents and media outlets.

87
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,560
Speaker 4: We talked about that a good bit and it's going

88
00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 4: to come as no surprise to anybody who watches this

89
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,640
Speaker 4: show has watched it over the past year or over

90
00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,560
Speaker 4: the past decade, that we didn't see eye to eye

91
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,240
Speaker 4: on a lot of issues, and we told him so.

92
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 3: What we did agree on was to restar our communications.

93
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 3: My father often spoke with world leaders with whom he

94
00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:03,440
Speaker 3: and the United States profound disagreed. That's a task shared

95
00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 3: by reporters and commentators alike. We had not spoken to

96
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 3: President Trump since March of twenty twenty, other than a

97
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 3: personal call Joe made to Trump on the morning after

98
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,799
Speaker 3: the attempt on his life in Butler, Pennsylvania. In this meeting,

99
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,039
Speaker 3: President Trump was tearful, he was upbeat. He seemed interested

100
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,839
Speaker 3: in finding common ground with Democrats on some of the

101
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 3: most divisive issues. And for those asking why we would

102
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,679
Speaker 3: go speak to the president elect during such fraught times,

103
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,360
Speaker 3: especially between US, I guess I would ask back, why

104
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:45,039
Speaker 3: wouldn't we? Five years of political warfare has deeply divided

105
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 3: Washington and the country. We have been as clear as

106
00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,400
Speaker 3: we know how in expressing our deep concerns about President

107
00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,760
Speaker 3: Trump's actions and words in the coursening.

108
00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:56,240
Speaker 2: Of public debate.

109
00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:03,320
Speaker 3: But for eighty million Americans, election denialism public trials in

110
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 3: January sixth were not as important as the issues that

111
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 3: moved them to send Donald Trump back to the White

112
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,800
Speaker 3: House with their vote. Joe and I realize it's time

113
00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,080
Speaker 3: to do something different, and that starts with not only

114
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 3: talking about Donald Trump, but also talking with him.

115
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,880
Speaker 1: All right, yeah, so what's your take on that, Carol,

116
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:32,159
Speaker 1: after the last nine years of saying that Donald Trump

117
00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,480
Speaker 1: is a grave threat to the democracy? Yeah, so is

118
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:36,840
Speaker 1: he Hitler or isn't he.

119
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:38,359
Speaker 2: I just need them to get to the bottom of

120
00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,480
Speaker 2: this for their viewers, not me, obviously, but for the

121
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 2: people who watch them all like fifteen of them at

122
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,800
Speaker 2: this point. So I don't know if I'm a viewer,

123
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 2: I'm mostly thinking, like, what do you really believe?

124
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,080
Speaker 1: What do you really believe?

125
00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,159
Speaker 2: Because if you were concerned about the fall of democracy

126
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,320
Speaker 2: like two weeks ago, and now you're visiting with guy,

127
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:02,200
Speaker 2: that's an odd thing to do.

128
00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 1: Now.

129
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,080
Speaker 2: Of course, people like Keith Olberman are taking it super

130
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,719
Speaker 2: well that they made this visit, and he said he

131
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:15,160
Speaker 2: tweeted to political reporters, commentators, liberals, moderates after this fawning, humiliating,

132
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,040
Speaker 2: network destroying surrender. If you go on Morning Joe, you

133
00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 2: have endorsed and brought into vc m's NBC.

134
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 1: What are you saying, v she of miss everyc amazing Well,

135
00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 1: and that's the question, right. So, although this is a

136
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:38,040
Speaker 1: transparent and self serving move from people who really really

137
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,120
Speaker 1: loved Donald Trump pre Donald Trump actually becoming the president,

138
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,240
Speaker 1: they sure did, and then really swerved into he's a

139
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:55,360
Speaker 1: fascist mode. I think it's better to not wall yourself

140
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,440
Speaker 1: off from everyone, as Keith Olberman is intent on doing.

141
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,400
Speaker 1: I think media outlets like this don't have a lot

142
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 1: of viewers and speak to only their own and can't

143
00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 1: do a great job at even that because they have

144
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:13,280
Speaker 1: walled themselves off so much. So on one hand, you

145
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,080
Speaker 1: know that they didn't really believe he was a fascist,

146
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 1: and on the other hand, like, maybe this will lead

147
00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 1: to slightly healthier discussions. But the people who make these

148
00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,119
Speaker 1: turns on a dime don't get to tell the rest

149
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,200
Speaker 1: of us that we're like morally below them. That's that's

150
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,680
Speaker 1: the part that's so annoying.

151
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:37,239
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

152
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:38,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

153
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 2: I also I haven't seen and maybe I'm missing it,

154
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,599
Speaker 2: so correct me if I'm wrong. But criticism the opposite. The

155
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,800
Speaker 2: opposite way is anybody saying Donald Trump should not have

156
00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,800
Speaker 2: sat down with them. I mean I kind of think

157
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 2: he shouldn't have, but that's you know, I would say,

158
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,880
Speaker 2: I'm not representative of a lot of people at this point.

159
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,720
Speaker 2: So are people mad at him, our mother mad at

160
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 2: him for sitting down with them? Or do they just

161
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,040
Speaker 2: think that this is something an incoming president has to do.

162
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: I saw a few people who were annoyed by it,

163
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,120
Speaker 1: and I get that. I actually think, you know, should

164
00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,360
Speaker 1: you be gracious to people who have been calling you

165
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,800
Speaker 1: a fascist for many many years? Importers, right?

166
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,120
Speaker 2: I mean that's sort of the thing for me. It's

167
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,960
Speaker 2: like one thing to call the politician names, but his

168
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,320
Speaker 2: supporters have been tacked as you know, hitler loving fascists,

169
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,160
Speaker 2: So I don't know.

170
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the thing to me is that it

171
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:41,600
Speaker 1: illustrates every time that Trump or Rogan or Trump's supporters,

172
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 1: all these people who get such a bad rap for

173
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,720
Speaker 1: being such terrible blights on the American system aren't actually

174
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,240
Speaker 1: quite a bit more gracious than the people calling them

175
00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,080
Speaker 1: the things. And it's another reason that people tune out

176
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,400
Speaker 1: media because Joe Rogan it turns out like, oh, you

177
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,720
Speaker 1: guys tried super hard. I would love to watch The

178
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,560
Speaker 1: Morning Joe Archives on the Joe Rogan two week Cancel Fest.

179
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,280
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan is like, yeah, everyone comes on my podcast, Sure,

180
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,800
Speaker 1: come on my podcast, even though all of you thought

181
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 1: I was trash two years Yeah, and Drum's like, come

182
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,160
Speaker 1: on down tomorrow, Lago, I guess have a nice meal.

183
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:25,839
Speaker 5: Like I gotta tell you, I don't have that graciousness personally.

184
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 5: I look, I could disagree with people and not close

185
00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 5: their eyes out, and I think actually that should be

186
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 5: what you do is have civil disagreement. I have, you know,

187
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,719
Speaker 5: people in public life that I disagree with on a

188
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,760
Speaker 5: lot of things, but we could still remain friendly. We

189
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,160
Speaker 5: could even have arguments and debates and still remain friendly

190
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:44,680
Speaker 5: all of that.

191
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,760
Speaker 2: But if you cross me, if you really cross me,

192
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,360
Speaker 2: I can't be like that. I just I cannot. I

193
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,559
Speaker 2: could never sit down with somebody who would think some

194
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,079
Speaker 2: hitler and who has spent four years telling the country

195
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 2: that and Joe Rogan such a person than me, because

196
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,680
Speaker 2: if you try to get me fired and people have

197
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,360
Speaker 2: I don't forget that. I won't be like, oh, okay,

198
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,680
Speaker 2: we're on the same side now, like no, we're not right.

199
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 1: That dude is so laid back now I do think

200
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,600
Speaker 1: that Trump, more than Rogan, probably has his own plan

201
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 1: here for having a chat tape those two.

202
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 2: Including does he need them they've lost fifty percent of

203
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,080
Speaker 2: their audience since election day. I don't know. I don't

204
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 2: think he really needs them.

205
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 1: I think no. I think part of the plan is

206
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,880
Speaker 1: just enjoying having them come and have to do this.

207
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,840
Speaker 1: I get it. That would be all he's getting out

208
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,120
Speaker 1: of it, because, like you said, there isn't a lot

209
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,480
Speaker 1: of viewership or power at this point to offer on

210
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 1: that front. Can I mention a couple of media reform

211
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,120
Speaker 1: ideas from Brian Stelter?

212
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:54,680
Speaker 2: Please?

213
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,719
Speaker 1: Shall shall we run through whether these would work? Yeah?

214
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:04,520
Speaker 1: So Brian Stelter, CNN longtime media reporter, has some suggestions.

215
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: He says, I'll just run through a couple of them.

216
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,040
Speaker 1: Listen to young people and learn from their media habits. HM.

217
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,560
Speaker 1: So this is like, you know, I guess lean into

218
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 1: the tiktoking and the h isn't that in the podcast?

219
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 2: The whole problem with the Kamala Harris campaign that they're

220
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,880
Speaker 2: trying to blame on the young people and listening to

221
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,040
Speaker 2: them and their terrible ideas, like young people don't know anything?

222
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:25,320
Speaker 1: Why?

223
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:26,680
Speaker 2: Well, listening to young people.

224
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,559
Speaker 1: Well, and it's like there's two different kinds of meeting

225
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,280
Speaker 1: people where they are, which is another of his suggestions. Right,

226
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,880
Speaker 1: Donald Trump went to these podcasts where these young men

227
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,960
Speaker 1: were listening. He had a Twitch stream where people were streaming.

228
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,240
Speaker 1: But when he went to those places, he wasn't a

229
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,360
Speaker 1: different character, right, He wasn't doing a bit for these people.

230
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,679
Speaker 1: He was just Donald Trump in a new place. I

231
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:56,520
Speaker 1: think her attempt was to be this commodified Kamala in

232
00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 1: a different way on whatever platform they put her on,

233
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,960
Speaker 1: and that actually didn't work. A couple more make content

234
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,680
Speaker 1: for casual news consumers and those turned off by politics.

235
00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:11,720
Speaker 1: This is basically the Rogan model, because Rogan talks about

236
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 1: life and interesting things, and politics sort of weaves in

237
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 1: and out of it. Here's my favorite, though, I'm just

238
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:25,240
Speaker 1: pop the media bubbles, Carol. Many news consumers and a

239
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,160
Speaker 1: good number of journalists think national news coverages to Washington

240
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:33,440
Speaker 1: centric No way. Maybe. CNN's Donio Sullivan commented last week

241
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,360
Speaker 1: the media collectively spent too much time obsessing about polling

242
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,959
Speaker 1: and not enough time talking to people. The Sullivan and

243
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 1: other correspondence interviewed voters all election sies long, but those

244
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,880
Speaker 1: conversations and focus groups should inform editorial decisions in panel discussions.

245
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,319
Speaker 1: Here's another idea. Hire anyone who disagrees with.

246
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,880
Speaker 2: You, anyone without any anyone, like literally anything. Right now,

247
00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:00,240
Speaker 2: the big conversation around Pete Hagseath is that he is

248
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,120
Speaker 2: cross as a Christian, nationalist, white supremacist whatever. I'm like,

249
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,600
Speaker 2: they don't have any Christians in the newsrooms, and that's

250
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,040
Speaker 2: why they don't know what this cross is.

251
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm the only reason I really.

252
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 2: Know what the cross is as a Jewish person. It's

253
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 2: the Jerusalem Cross. A lot of times Christians will get

254
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,960
Speaker 2: the cross tattooed on themselves when they pilgrim to Jerusalem.

255
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,680
Speaker 2: Our friend Dave Marcus on the Israel trip that we

256
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 2: went on, got the tattoo. I feel this tattoo parlor

257
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,480
Speaker 2: in the world, and he has the Jerusalem Cross, and

258
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 2: so I you know, I might find yourself one Christian

259
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,160
Speaker 2: to have in the newsroom will tell you about this,

260
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,360
Speaker 2: or a Jew who's met Christians. I don't know.

261
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they have to get away from the

262
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,360
Speaker 1: idea like for some for some of these folks, when

263
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 1: they reveal that they don't know what the Jerusalem crosses

264
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,680
Speaker 1: to them, that's a feature, not a bug. Like That's

265
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 1: like they're like, well, I'm not a Christian, this isn't that. Yeah,

266
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 1: not that, Like I would never signal that I understand

267
00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:00,960
Speaker 1: things outside of my cleansed, sanitized left leg circle. It's like, well, no,

268
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,640
Speaker 1: you should know the facts you think are icky are

269
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 1: actually good. To know that it would it would prevent

270
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,120
Speaker 1: you from making a fool of yourself. So I found

271
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:14,080
Speaker 1: that one very interesting. Greg's sargent is another left leaning

272
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,840
Speaker 1: reporter who's gone to Rick Wilson of the Lincoln Project

273
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,040
Speaker 1: for a post mortem on Republican thoughts and how to

274
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,200
Speaker 1: reform the media. And I'm just like, he's y'alls now.

275
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, yeah, he belongs to you.

276
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 1: Rick Wilson is not the guy right to get the

277
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,680
Speaker 1: temperature on how you might reach the people you've lost.

278
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 1: You paid him to lose them for you, right, That's.

279
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. Say it's crazy because they just keep

280
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,200
Speaker 2: doing this. They're just like but he says he's a Republican, like,

281
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 2: but nothing else about him is Republican. He did not

282
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,240
Speaker 2: vote for the Republican at this time, not last time.

283
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,920
Speaker 2: He wants not just Donald Trump, he wants other Republican

284
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,280
Speaker 2: candidates to lose. And that was a big eye opener

285
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,760
Speaker 2: for me after twenty sixteen, because I think a lot

286
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 2: of the people who were like Trump skeptical, we were

287
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 2: all sort of on one side, and then a whole

288
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,040
Speaker 2: bunch of them were like, and we want to destroy

289
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,160
Speaker 2: all Republicans, and we're like, wait a minute, hold on,

290
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,760
Speaker 2: I don't want that. So, you know, like a great

291
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,600
Speaker 2: example is actually gup her descent. Is they all despise him,

292
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 2: even though him and Trump, you know, clearly were butting

293
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 2: heads and opposing each other. But it didn't matter. We're

294
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 2: going to take a short break and come right back with.

295
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 1: Normally speaking of like this type of doubling down. I

296
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,800
Speaker 1: believe we have an update on Representative Seth Moulton, who

297
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,720
Speaker 1: is we pointed out as one of the brave souls

298
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 1: who stepped forward and said, hey, maybe like biological dudes

299
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:50,000
Speaker 1: should not be playing on sports teams with all my daughters. Yeah,

300
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,480
Speaker 1: and that's like a very sensible thing that most Americans

301
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:58,240
Speaker 1: believe at seventy plus percent, And yet they came after

302
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 1: him for saying this, and they didn't just come after

303
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:07,920
Speaker 1: them Carroll. There was a rally in Salem, Massachusetts, perfect

304
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:13,199
Speaker 1: place to burn the witch earned the witch. It was

305
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,119
Speaker 1: what was it called, like a no hate for neighbors

306
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:23,719
Speaker 1: or something like that rally, And I just it's amazing

307
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 1: that this is the reaction to so simple a pushback.

308
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 2: Right right And going back to the media, do they

309
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:40,400
Speaker 2: have people in their newsrooms, commentators who will tell them

310
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 2: this is not a controversial issue. This is actually a

311
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 2: lopsided position that most of America takes. I don't know.

312
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,639
Speaker 2: There was an exchange recently, I think on CNN where

313
00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,800
Speaker 2: the Republican was saying something about trans girls sports and

314
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,920
Speaker 2: one of the other panelists would not allow him say

315
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,400
Speaker 2: anything about it because those girls are girls. They're girls,

316
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,719
Speaker 2: they are judge girls who happened to have been born boys,

317
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,359
Speaker 2: but not allowed to talk about it, and it's transphobic

318
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,920
Speaker 2: if you even talk about it. And his point got

319
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,800
Speaker 2: stepped on because the you know, the panelists would not

320
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:21,640
Speaker 2: let him speak.

321
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think people are on that side in particular,

322
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 1: are petrified to talk about this. I think all of

323
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,200
Speaker 1: us at some point have been worried, particularly during twenty twenty.

324
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 1: It got so shareshed and there are very brave and

325
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 1: uncancellable people who went first, like JK Rowling.

326
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,959
Speaker 2: Abel She I just feel like deserves so much praise.

327
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,400
Speaker 2: She put that issue on the map for a lot

328
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 2: of people, and she was very brave in writing her

329
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 2: book about it. It was just, you know, I think

330
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,919
Speaker 2: that what she did was extremely bold in time. At

331
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,680
Speaker 2: the time she did it, so many people now, uh,

332
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 2: we'll take the positions that Abigail Streyer took years ago

333
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 2: or JK Rowling, But they did it when nobody else

334
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 2: was on their side and deserve the praise for it and.

335
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 1: Did it boldly, and that is what allows other people

336
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,960
Speaker 1: to talk about it. But now we're here at like again.

337
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: This is a thing that if you run in elite circles,

338
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 1: you will convince yourself is wrong to say or hateful

339
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,840
Speaker 1: or out of the mainstream, when in fact it is not.

340
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,880
Speaker 1: And the media, being in these elite circles and completely

341
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 1: walled up, must learn.

342
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 2: What is normal right and what to mos out the

343
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 2: country right. And so again, the idea that these media

344
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 2: outlets have learned anything like it really means to be seen.

345
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 2: I think I keep seeing they're doing layoffs at a

346
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 2: lot of different places. It's really you know, I'm sad

347
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: for those people losing their jobs. I would see again, though,

348
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 2: if you had more balance, if you had different voices,

349
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 2: if you didn't treat these outlets as if they were

350
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,120
Speaker 2: a political operation, they would do better. You would widen

351
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 2: your audience, you would expand the base, as it were.

352
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 2: So you know, that would be my advice to any

353
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 2: media outlet hoping to grow.

354
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to get out of this idea, this denial

355
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: of the fact that that's where you are, because sometimes

356
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,679
Speaker 1: they'll just say, as as Brian says, like pop the bubble,

357
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,879
Speaker 1: but not by actually hiring anybody right hop the bubble,

358
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: by going out and talking to these people more often,

359
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 1: which I think would help. But there are people right

360
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,919
Speaker 1: in this town or any other town where a media

361
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: organization resides, where you could just like have people on

362
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: staff it is. That's a real thing you can do.

363
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 1: That's a step you can take. Oh my goodness, shall

364
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: we do some transition news? And I'm interested, Carol on

365
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 1: some things you like in what you're seeing here.

366
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I continue to like I mean, we talked about

367
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 2: it last week. But the Pete hag Seth pick remains

368
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,640
Speaker 2: at the top of the list for me, I think

369
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 2: he's a fantastic choice, and I just like that he

370
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 2: is out of the box. Having said that, obviously, some

371
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,679
Speaker 2: of the other out of the box picks are not

372
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 2: my favorite. I'm generally kind of suspicious of Vivek and RFK.

373
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 2: I just see them as liberals and I get that

374
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: they were part of the package, and I fully understand

375
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 2: them being chosen for different roles because that's what Trump

376
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,400
Speaker 2: said he was going to do. But for me, that's

377
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 2: not really at the top of the list. And I

378
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 2: would say also just in general, I voted for Donald Trump,

379
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 2: and I said it was a pro civilization vote, and

380
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 2: so for me that meant a lot of different things,

381
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 2: including the border and including not as much to even

382
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: support for Israel as allowing Israel to do what it

383
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 2: needs to do to defeat their enemies. And I have

384
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 2: so far been very satisfied on these two points specifically.

385
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm kind of with you on the RFK pick

386
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: or the Gates pick, where I'm like, what I'm looking

387
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: for is someone who is a reformer and has a

388
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: record of sort of being able to clobber an agency

389
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 1: like this, being able to wrap your mind around it.

390
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: And I think that one of the things I've learned

391
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 1: is not effective and the media has not learned. Although

392
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 1: these things should be covered well, the media hasn't learned

393
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: is that you can't just come out the gates and

394
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 1: be like unacceptable, right, these people are not normal picks. Yeah,

395
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, great. Uh. I don't know if

396
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: you notice, but a third of people voted for total upheaval. Yeah,

397
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 1: so their scale is going to be different than you're

398
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: you know, I've been in Washington for twenty five years scale. Okay,

399
00:22:55,240 --> 00:23:00,239
Speaker 1: so let's like actually evaluate people instead of jumping on that.

400
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: With Gates, I look at the dust up with the

401
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: Speaker of the House where he unseated Kevin McCarthy. But

402
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: then there wasn't really a plan for the next part

403
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, and the Republicans ended up without a

404
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: speaker sort of non functional for an extended period of time.

405
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: And I go, okay, how does that translate to like

406
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: really getting the DOJ control which it needs. So that's

407
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: those are my concerns, and I don't want to couch

408
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: them only in personal attacks or oh, you're the sort

409
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: of moral failings and that kind of thing. Because I

410
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: don't drink it's effective, and I'm not sure it matters

411
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: to voters so that, but on the front of things

412
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: that I love this idea that I do not think

413
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: has been confirmed yet, but I'm just going to keep hoping.

414
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: Of Doctor j abouticharia Ye to NIH, the National Institutes

415
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 1: of Health is so good. She's a longtime critic of NIH.

416
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: Under Francis Collins, the former head. He was in fact

417
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: like attacked and censored by the government and by the

418
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 1: former head of NIH for his criticisms. He was a

419
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: member of the they sometimes called themselves Team Reality or

420
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: the Great Barrington Decoration group that had the crazy idea

421
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: that during a pandemic we should follow the plans that

422
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: every civilized and free nation has ever followed in the past,

423
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: which is the least disruption possible and those new ones

424
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: and the most liberty possible, particularly for those who are

425
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: not very vulnerable to the disease. For this, he took

426
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: a lot of heat, a lot of career danger for him,

427
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: despite I'm sure being tenured at Stanford, but this was

428
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: like a huge thing to go out on a limb about.

429
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: He is measured, he is smart, he is mollified, he

430
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: is kind. Regularly goes back and forth with critics in

431
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: productive ways. Uh, And honestly, would that be worth my vote?

432
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: Just right there? It would right like, I just I

433
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: love how poetic it is. I love him. I think

434
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: it's a great idea.

435
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: He's fantastic. I that would be a very exciting pick.

436
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 2: I know that my Governor DeSantis floated our surgeon General

437
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 2: Joseph Ladappo for that role as well. I'd obviously be

438
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: happy with either one. I kind of want to keep

439
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 2: Ladavo in Florida.

440
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: I don't know why.

441
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 2: I don't need to be too many people from Florida.

442
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: I just like pretty far people alone enough.

443
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: I actually forgot you of your people.

444
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 2: I don't know what's up with that, but they I

445
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: actually forgot about Matt Gates and original conversation here. He

446
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 2: was nominated shortly after our last episode aired, where you

447
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 2: and I said that Trump will probably have some picks

448
00:25:54,680 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 2: that were not happy. I think, right. So, yeah, the

449
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: thing about Gates, I keep forgetting about him because I

450
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 2: don't think he's going to get a support I don't

451
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: think he's going to pass through the confirmation process. I'm,

452
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: you know, ready to be wrong, but I just he

453
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: has pissed a lot of people off. And while I

454
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 2: understand that that's an enjoyable part of the Donald Trump administration,

455
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: the saint people off, you still need the support of

456
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: your colleagues in order to make it make it through.

457
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I guess he's my top. I

458
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: don't think he's going to make it through.

459
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: Pick.

460
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: I don't know. Tulsi not sure if if she makes it.

461
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: But we'll see on that one.

462
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, though, people they keep turning out

463
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: to knock each of these nominations is liable to make

464
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: people more friendly to them, right, So yeah, So so

465
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 1: is it Brennan who was out saying that Tulsi Gabbard

466
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: is unacceptable? And it's like, my dude, you lied to

467
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: Congress and you've admitted it, and you spied on members

468
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: of Congress and lied about it, and so I just

469
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: think like, at this point, your disfavor is a mark

470
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: in her column for a lot of people sit this one.

471
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: They keep doing this with nominees. It's like, Oh, let's

472
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: go get all the establishment types who've betrayed you in

473
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: the past to say that this person's terrible, and the

474
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: lad's gonna fly. Yeah, the way that they might.

475
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: Hope. Right, the not acceptable to them is acceptable to

476
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: a lot of people, So you're you're right, that is

477
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: a strange strategy for them when Americans clearly voted for

478
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: change and not the same bureaucrats and not the same people. Upheaval,

479
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: Like you said, absolute upheaval is what a lot of

480
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: people want.

481
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: I'm just looking for people who make people pissed off

482
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: and are productive, Like, yeah, that's a heart It's honestly

483
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: sort of a hard combo. People who are outside the mainstream,

484
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: who have been brave enough to buck the system and

485
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: also can just really get some stuff done. That is myry,

486
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: that's my sweet spot, yep, and have.

487
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: The vision and the ability to make it happen. It's just, yeah,

488
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: all of us are hoping for the best. I think,

489
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: I hope. I think a lot of these picks are that.

490
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: I think they're motivated for the change that people chose.

491
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: Well, I think too. You and I have talked about this. Look,

492
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: I'm as as you point out, some of our issues

493
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: with nominees will be that they're liberals. Yeah right, that's the.

494
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 2: Top of my list problems with people that Trump picks liberals,

495
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: you know.

496
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: So, and that was my concern about Donald Trump juree

497
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, same grum, same But we also must

498
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: acknowledge that we're not the only people in the coalition.

499
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: It's a color limited fact. We ain't in the driver's

500
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: seat coalition. Yeah, And I think if you don't come

501
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: to grips with that, you don't get anything out of

502
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: the coalition. So I'm just there are gonna be things

503
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: that I like. I like the idea of the Maha movement.

504
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit of a crunchy mom myself, and

505
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: despite my love of fast food, it's a I'm I'm

506
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: full of mysteries, Carol contradictions everywhere. But is RFK my person? No?

507
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: But I think he's gonna have a lot of popular

508
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: support from people whose support I understand for that kind

509
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: of upheaval. And this is a new group of folks,

510
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: many of whom are not ideological conservatives, right, many of

511
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: whom are just sometimes left leaning populists. You didn't feel

512
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: at home in the Democratic Party and they lost them

513
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: to us, So here we are.

514
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Donald Trump is a moderate, and that has been

515
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: one of my ongoing problems with him. A lot of

516
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: his kind of off the cuff answers. One of the

517
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: ones that I point to a lot is the one

518
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: where he's He was on the All In podcast and

519
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 2: they were talking immigration and he said he would give

520
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: a green card to every college graduate who came to

521
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: America to study. And I was like, what, No, And

522
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: he ended up walking that back. But his impulse a

523
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: lot of the time are very moderate positions, and I

524
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: want someone further.

525
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: To the right.

526
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 2: I want right, you know, I want a conservative. Do

527
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: we have that? No, you said, we're not in the

528
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: driver's seat. I fully agree. But the first few days

529
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: of Picks, I was a little bit like, all these people.

530
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I'm not supposed to love all these people,

531
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: but they do. They're all so great.

532
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: But that's how we knew we were gonna get bitt

533
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: in the ass. Right after that podcast, Oh it is

534
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: what it is, right far, you know what? And also

535
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: John Bones Jones at the UFC doing the Trump dance

536
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: in front of Trump, that whole ridiculous entourage, Elon poulsy RFK,

537
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan, Dada White. I gotta say I'm a sucker

538
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: for it, like the lust, the content that I'm here

539
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: for and the silly dance. I think is more powerful

540
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: than maybe first glance, like because it's this is the

541
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: zeitgeist yea, And people like Joe and Mika or Kamala

542
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: asking Beyonce or Oprah to do events for her and

543
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: paying them a lot money is not governing the zeitgeist

544
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: right now, right something, real.

545
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: Time, in a long time. It's not on the left

546
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: and it is. It's amazing, It's a cultural phenomenon. I

547
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 2: would also again be prepared for all of this to collapse.

548
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we'll be right back on normally. I don't

549
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: know if we want to talk about this, but you know, yeah, sure.

550
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: Ali said that his pick for who Trump will have

551
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: them public blow up with is RFK. I believe see it.

552
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: He's number one for me. Also, I think if Trump

553
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: is going to have a you know, all out, drag

554
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: out fight with one of his people, I think RFK

555
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: would be my pick as well. Yeah.

556
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: I think there's a big question of whether this coalition

557
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: survives without Trump at the head of it as sort

558
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: of the symbol of it, yeah, or if it even

559
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: survives within this administration. Because while you're serving Carol and

560
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: me with a couple of picks and I'm in the

561
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: middle on a couple more and this other group is

562
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: being served, the more isolationist group or the more the

563
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: more Maha group is being served with others. Are you

564
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: delivering for each of those concipencies in ways that they

565
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: think matter and sometimes those are in conflict?

566
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

567
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: Yeahs gonna be a little tricky, but I do think

568
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: that people will look at those moments like the UFC

569
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: and realize, oh, it's not just me who voted.

570
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: For Trump, right, there's a bitch people around me who

571
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: might have Yeah. People keep asking also why JD. Vans

572
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: is not there, and I've obviously, as any parent with

573
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: small children could tell you, he is home with the kids.

574
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: I mean that he's been on the road.

575
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: Hey whatever, Yeah, so right, but he should take.

576
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: Over the mantle of dancing into the.

577
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: UFC fights In four years, like we'll see, the kids

578
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:25,959
Speaker 2: will be older.

579
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: So I mean, look, if Mike Johnson can make that trek,

580
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: he was so great. I do's a former like Goody

581
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: two shoes who ran with a worst who ran with

582
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: kind of a sketchy crowd. I was always the good

583
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: kid in a bad crowd. So I was like, yeah,

584
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: I'll be your d D or whatever, and I looked

585
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: at Mike Johnson and I saw myself. I was like, Yes,

586
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: I was in a marching band uniform twenty minutes ago,

587
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: but now I'm at the party.

588
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: Amazing visual. That's a really good one. I like that

589
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: a lot for our final segment today that in case

590
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: you missed it segment. There's an ongoing story about FEMA

591
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 2: having skipped houses in Florida with MAGA signs in front,

592
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: and the woman who wrote the directive they put this

593
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 2: in writing, Mary Catherine. This isn't like I hearsay. It's

594
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: like literally in their official documents, like don't go to

595
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: if there's a Trump sign, skip the house. Her name

596
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: is Marnie Washington, and she is not playing the fall guy.

597
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: She's saying no, I got this direction from above, and

598
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: I passed it on to the people working for me.

599
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 2: But I did not come up with it. And she's

600
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: not going down alone. I want to see people fired.

601
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: I want to see people punished. I think this is

602
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 2: like the rot that people want moved in our country.

603
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 2: The fact that somebody could even put that in writing

604
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 2: and never wonder how affected people will be about something

605
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 2: like this, The fact that people blindly followed orders and

606
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 2: did skip palses with Trump signs. All of it is

607
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 2: a real concerning thing to me, and I think this

608
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 2: story should be a gigantic story. The fact is not

609
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: is a real problem. I think Marnie Washington needs to,

610
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: you know, probably be arrested for this dereliction of duty.

611
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 2: And it's got to go above her as well. Yeah.

612
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 1: No, I think there should be very real punishments, probably

613
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: legal ones here for this kind of behavior. And as

614
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: I say with Trump when he's talking about the Justice

615
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: Department or whatever, you're not paranoid if they're out to

616
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: get you. And the fact is that a lot of

617
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: things people on the right, particularly Trump supporters, believe about

618
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: how people in the elite spheres or in the government

619
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:52,240
Speaker 1: view them, are correct, Like they're not incorrect about this stuff.

620
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: And if this was a directive, by the way, one

621
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: of the reasons that she has noted that it was

622
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: that it was a directive is because they do this thing,

623
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: which is those people are dangerous and so in order

624
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 1: not to endanger our employees, we must avoid those people.

625
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: So it's just like very sneaky thing where they're safetysming

626
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: half of the country out of services.

627
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: In Florida, you're gonna have a lot of Trump supporters,

628
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 2: so yes.

629
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: I should say more than half are. And in western

630
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: North Carolina you're gonna have like sixty five percent of

631
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: Trump supporters. But they use that to hang their hat on.

632
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: It's like, see, these people are threatening, which is why

633
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 1: we can't serve them. And that is a frankly sort

634
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: of like emotionally abusive thing where it's like I'm just

635
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: putting this on you and then I'm depriving you of

636
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: services because I have imagined that you are dangerous to me.

637
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: And that is just so so gross, such a betrayal

638
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: of what they're supposed to be doing, because look, part

639
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: of doing this kind of work is that it is dangerous,

640
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: Like inherently you're in a disaster area. So if safetyism

641
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: is their issue on any front, like you obviously want

642
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: to be responsible, but this is insane stuff. To take

643
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: your ideological fear and turn it into this that's.

644
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: Right, and to take it back to our first topic.

645
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 2: You know, it was the media who spread this fear,

646
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: who made them afraid of people with Trump signs and

647
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 2: made those people believe that you know, they were in danger,

648
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 2: just coming into contact with these white nationalists lunatics, so

649
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: the media there's a lot of responsibility for this. Again,

650
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: I would like to see consequences. I don't think that

651
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: we can move forward when people are being treated this way,

652
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: and I'd love to see a brighter future for this

653
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 2: country and I like to see that change in a

654
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 2: real big way in the next few years.

655
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: I will see you the next side of females.

656
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, that's right. Thanks for joining us on

657
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 2: normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe

658
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 2: anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us

659
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: at Normallythepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening, and

660
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: when things get weird, act normally