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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Emily Haines of The Vectric. Emily,

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Speaker 1: good to have you on the podcast, so I can

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Speaker 1: see you in a studio. But where are you? New York, Toronto, wherever?

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Speaker 1: I'm in a rural hamlet, Okay, rural himle if there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of them, rural hamlet, Canada, United States. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's in Canada. It's just outside Toronto. And is that

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Speaker 1: where you spend most of your time these days? Um,

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Speaker 1: Now that the world has come back to a certain degree,

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Speaker 1: I'm back in it, um, but certainly for the making

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Speaker 1: of music and the living of life. I do love

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Speaker 1: a rural hamlet. So what is inspirational about a rural hamlet.

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Speaker 1: I just the lack of a town, which means less

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Speaker 1: of the usual things that humans bring to everything, which

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Speaker 1: is politics. Like I love how we separate out politics

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Speaker 1: as though it's something separate. It's all of life. So

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Speaker 1: because there's no town, there's none of that, and it's

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Speaker 1: rolling hills and rivers and I always see like little foxes,

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Speaker 1: and I see turtles and frogs and deer and you know,

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Speaker 1: rabbits and every day, certainly at this time of year.

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Speaker 1: What it's a completely different landscape in terms of blooming.

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Speaker 1: I have all these wild flowers that just do their thing.

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Speaker 1: Even the weeds, you know, milkweed. I'm down with it.

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Speaker 1: You know, the butterflies need it. Uh So that's why

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Speaker 1: I like a rural hamlet. So what inspires you in

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Speaker 1: terms of your creative work you're writing, I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: you added something to that sentence. Is that was big? Um?

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Speaker 1: In terms of the work, uh, I feel that it's

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Speaker 1: over the years become quite clear that it almost I

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Speaker 1: would feel it's a balanced combination of these things. Which

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Speaker 1: is at this point a deep loyalty and commitment to

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Speaker 1: my band, and which is they're my family. UM. So

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Speaker 1: I'm inspired by the idea, just the idea of us

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Speaker 1: UM following through on our ideas and visions. UM is

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Speaker 1: now like deeply motivating and inspiring. UM. The people who

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Speaker 1: listen to it, I'm inspired by them because I still

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Speaker 1: can't believe even though there's so much cynicism, I just

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Speaker 1: still feel incredibly fortunate too exist in someone's mind. I

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Speaker 1: know it's hot real estate these days, UM, and I

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Speaker 1: feel pretty pretty toughed and lucky that my music makes

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Speaker 1: it into people's lives and soundtracks. So I'm inspired to

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Speaker 1: like continue providing that service to people. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: there's just the craft itself which keeps me busy. As

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Speaker 1: every songwriter will tell you who's obsessed. Um, it's just

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Speaker 1: a fascinating craft. Um. The fact that you have eight keys,

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Speaker 1: and the incredible amount of things that can come out

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Speaker 1: of just these keys, you know. And I only write

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Speaker 1: in one language, and I even still feel like there's

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Speaker 1: so much to be done. Um. And definitely like driven

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Speaker 1: by a sense of my legacy to my father, who

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Speaker 1: it's just like such a great strange poet, um, with

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Speaker 1: such a love of language and the idea of the

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Speaker 1: feeling when you get an insight sort of encapsulated in

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Speaker 1: to something so concise and beautiful as he would do.

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Speaker 1: So those are the things that keep me going. Well,

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Speaker 1: let maybe very specific. Some people they walk down the street,

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Speaker 1: they look at the people it inspires them for ideas.

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Speaker 1: Other people watch TV, other people read books or magazines.

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Speaker 1: Other people just live their regular life and inspiration hits

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Speaker 1: them whenever, like in the shower or driving a car.

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Speaker 1: In terms of writing music itself, how do you begin

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Speaker 1: the process. Uh, I feel like I'm kind of always

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Speaker 1: in it. Um. You don't want to get too far,

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Speaker 1: but uh, and I know what you mean, like that

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Speaker 1: distinction between sort of like principles that you live your

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Speaker 1: life by, which is sort of more what I just

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Speaker 1: gave you. Um. But in terms of like when things strike,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of an odd sensation, like I'll kind of

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Speaker 1: be doing something, it doesn't really matter what or where,

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Speaker 1: and I'll i'll sense that you know, um, something might

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Speaker 1: be getting clear. And that's why I have pianos. I

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Speaker 1: never really have a piano like too far away from me.

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Speaker 1: I have one on each floor of my house, um,

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Speaker 1: just in case. And I just I'm always amazed by

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Speaker 1: the feeling because you can't. It's a humble thing, right,

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Speaker 1: It's like, you know, so much is on the cutting

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Speaker 1: room floor, but um, it would be like this weird

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Speaker 1: sensation and I'll go to the piano and usually it's

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Speaker 1: just like, you know, it's just gibberish, and it's those

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Speaker 1: same mean, there's only so many chords, right. But the

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Speaker 1: strangest thing when things coalesce in this odd order, um,

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Speaker 1: which I do find mostly inspired by the natural world.

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Speaker 1: The way you see it play out where things have

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Speaker 1: such symmetry, but there's no way that you could stage

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Speaker 1: that m or force that. But so I usually record immediately.

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Speaker 1: As soon as I kind of have that sense, I

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Speaker 1: just sit down. I just start recording, and you know,

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Speaker 1: lots of it's nothing and some of it um, I'll listen.

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Speaker 1: I'll listen back quite immediately, and it's almost like this

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Speaker 1: is a super old school thing. But like you need

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Speaker 1: to take a pencil and rub like a piece of

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Speaker 1: paper over in nickel and it would like show the

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Speaker 1: form of the nickel. It feels like that, like I

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Speaker 1: like what was gibberish, I can hear the whole thing

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Speaker 1: and then and then I'm like, okay, well now I

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Speaker 1: have something. And then that's just the beginning. And then

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Speaker 1: it has to go through this like tough love, uh

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Speaker 1: process to make it on a metric record. But that's

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Speaker 1: sort of how begins. Okay, let's go back to something

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Speaker 1: you said earlier. Your father, your father was a poet.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about that. Uh. Paul Haynes vast Or Michigan

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Speaker 1: UM football star and secret poet. UH served in the

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Speaker 1: Korean War. Didn't see battle, but he because he could

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Speaker 1: type had the job of typing up the leaves of

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Speaker 1: absences for soldiers, which is I think such a great

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Speaker 1: job to have. So of course he did everything you

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Speaker 1: could fabricate as many as possible, I'm sure, Um. And

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Speaker 1: then as a result of the g I bill uh,

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Speaker 1: which maybe you're familiar with, absolutely incredible for those who

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Speaker 1: may not be that you know, if you serve in

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Speaker 1: the army pace for your college. Yeah, but in which

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Speaker 1: is for sure the correct, succinct version of it. But

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Speaker 1: in the case of someone like my father, Um from

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Speaker 1: a small town in Michigan, he it was a passport

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Speaker 1: to the world for him. So he in his travels,

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Speaker 1: UM got to build upon some of his early discoveries

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Speaker 1: of jazz. Um in Flint, Michigan and driving to Detroit

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Speaker 1: he was he would go and record um musicians playing jazz. Well, well,

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Speaker 1: let's go a little bit slower. So your father was

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Speaker 1: in the military, and before that he went to college

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Speaker 1: and he was a football player. Do I have the

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Speaker 1: order right? You do? The football player was deeply high

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Speaker 1: school and I'm the photo of in Miami. Yeah, Just

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Speaker 1: so I understand. Did he go to uh Korea before

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Speaker 1: or after he went to college? After he went to

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Speaker 1: Miami University of Miami. Okay, so we already graduated from

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Speaker 1: Miami when he went into the service. I think that's right.

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Speaker 1: And then while he was there he was able to

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Speaker 1: build upon his love of jazz, which is where he

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Speaker 1: met Mitchell Konta, whose end up was a writer about Sartre.

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Speaker 1: My father had all these interactions with this world. Wait

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Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, these things

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Speaker 1: just don't happen. Howes he get from Korean uh to

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Speaker 1: interact with all these people and they aren't necessarily you know,

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Speaker 1: around the corner in Michigan. I don't. This is and

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Speaker 1: this is uh. You know, it's funny with speaking with you, Bob,

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Speaker 1: because I know that you love a detailed conversation, and

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Speaker 1: it's hard with a question about my father because we

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Speaker 1: really could have a whole separate I feel like there

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Speaker 1: should be an episodic series on the life of Paul Haynes.

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Speaker 1: So I'm more than happy to sort of direct my

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Speaker 1: my tail, but as much as I can, because we

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Speaker 1: could there's a lot um. Well then let me let

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Speaker 1: me be let me let's go back to the way

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Speaker 1: you were saying it. So he's out of the army,

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Speaker 1: and he's traveling around getting these influences. Just give us

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Speaker 1: a little bit of the story, you know, as it's

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Speaker 1: been told to you. Yeah, that the mythology and the family. Um.

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Speaker 1: So then you know, he comes back to the United

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Speaker 1: States having had these experiences. He meets my mother in

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Speaker 1: New York City, um, introduced by a friend, and there

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Speaker 1: they get aloft in soho and or I guess that

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Speaker 1: would have been the late fifties, early their sixties. We

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Speaker 1: can check all my timelines. Um. He shared a lot

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Speaker 1: with Michael Snow, the Canadian artist uh times where they

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Speaker 1: would share like going back and forth between each other's

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Speaker 1: cold water lofts as they called them, I guess because

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Speaker 1: they had no hot water. And then in that time,

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Speaker 1: as I understand it, he met Carla blaz the composer,

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Speaker 1: and they started up an incredible creative relationship where he

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Speaker 1: would write these librettos, these lyrics for her work, the

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Speaker 1: most UH known of which UH was the culmination of

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Speaker 1: work he did when my mother and father were in India.

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Speaker 1: Their travels took them to New Mexico and to India,

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Speaker 1: so they had me and New Delhi, and in that

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Speaker 1: time my father was writing what became the libretto for

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Speaker 1: Carla Blaze Escalator Over the Hill Um. And then so

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Speaker 1: my childhood was imbued with not only the story as

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Speaker 1: I've tried to tell it up till now, ah, but

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Speaker 1: this actual music and the incredible life force that is

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Speaker 1: Carla Blay Um. And there were all of these other

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Speaker 1: tentacles that my father had through mixed tapes that he

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Speaker 1: made that he sent. You know, one of my favorites

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Speaker 1: is Evan Parker, the incredible saxophonist who performed at my

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Speaker 1: father's memorial, connecting him with Robert wyatt Um from Soft Machine,

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Speaker 1: who my father would make tapes for. And then when

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Speaker 1: I was a young woman coming up writing songs, I

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Speaker 1: would send my songs to Robert and he would send

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Speaker 1: me back postcards and give me guidance. And yeah, but

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Speaker 1: all of this in this like non celebrity. You know,

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Speaker 1: my parents are teachers, right. My father is a French teacher. Um, okay,

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Speaker 1: just when you're when you when your father is in

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Speaker 1: New York and when he's in India, is he teaching?

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Speaker 1: Is that how he's paying the bill? Yeah? I kept

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he was teaching in New York. Um,

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Speaker 1: I know that in India he worked for the International

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Speaker 1: School UM and I have his He got an award

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Speaker 1: for endurance, which I look at a lot in softball

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Speaker 1: UM from the embassy in New Delhi. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what the story is there, but I just I love

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Speaker 1: his like I'm obsessed with this idea of the athlete

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Speaker 1: poet like this is my calling is to hopefully master

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Speaker 1: the hybrid more than he did, because in the end,

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Speaker 1: his body succumbed to his mind, if you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. He was so such an intellectual that I

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Speaker 1: just feel like if he was able to stay with

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Speaker 1: a part of him that was an athlete, we wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have lost him so young. Um, How old was How

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Speaker 1: old was he when he passed? Yeah? He was seventy okay?

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Speaker 1: And are you athletic yourself? I am? I am even

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Speaker 1: more so now as a result, my brother and sister

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Speaker 1: and I all of us are pretty fired up. But

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Speaker 1: he passed away on my thirty, just before my thirtieth birthday,

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Speaker 1: on the day that we finished World World Underground, our

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Speaker 1: first album, So is a The torch was handed very dramatically,

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Speaker 1: died very suddenly. So um, But what a cool life.

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Speaker 1: I mean, endlessly inspiring and his I feel like you'd

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Speaker 1: appreciate his writing. Actually, can I tell you? Can I

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Speaker 1: tell you one? Let me just give you one. You'll

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Speaker 1: you'll love this so um, I think so. An example

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Speaker 1: of Paul Haynes's poem is this um poem is called

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Speaker 1: Practicing Safe Emotion. Practicing Safe Emotion. It was the back

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Speaker 1: of his chair, she rubbed. That's all. But those things

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Speaker 1: you know, you'll be walking around doing your thing, you're vacuuming,

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Speaker 1: think about that stuff, you know. He's like these observations

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Speaker 1: so beautiful or something, but also like the least commercial

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Speaker 1: thing that's ever been thought of. Probably, um, okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: just I'm interesting. I'm interested in your own pursuit of

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Speaker 1: athleticism as half of your life, the creative intellectual part

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Speaker 1: being the other half. Well, I think it's funny when

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Speaker 1: you think, you know and your kid, how we get

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Speaker 1: we get? You know, it gets decided right in in

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Speaker 1: school at some point. Um, if you're a jock, or

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Speaker 1: you're theater kid, or your whatever else, all the categories right,

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Speaker 1: but it's usually you know, it's either the life of

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Speaker 1: the mind or the life of the body. And I

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Speaker 1: think that It's took me a long time to realize

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Speaker 1: that I really am both. And the only way I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be able to do what I want to

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Speaker 1: do is to have my my body be part of

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Speaker 1: my mind and both. You know, I can't just live

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Speaker 1: in your mind. You gotta the music is like it's

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Speaker 1: it's through you. Um, so you know, And there's also

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Speaker 1: like a practical reality of metrics shows. I mean, it's great,

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Speaker 1: it's a self fulfilling thing, but a metric show demands Cardio.

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Speaker 1: And because the metric show demands Cardio, that I have

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Speaker 1: to do it, and it kind of all it's part

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Speaker 1: of my plan. Okay, So Cardio would imply that you

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Speaker 1: work out, but also are you a runner, a hike

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Speaker 1: or a skier or any of that? Or is your

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Speaker 1: physicality mostly about working in the gym. I don't work

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Speaker 1: in the gym. I run, And so how often do

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Speaker 1: you run? As much as I want to have this

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Speaker 1: joy based approach. Um, My sister in law and and

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Speaker 1: my brother are both marathon runners, but they're so chill

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Speaker 1: about it and it's really inspiring. I'm not remotely on

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Speaker 1: their level. Um, but you know, some people get so

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Speaker 1: addicted and it becomes like everything else in life that

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Speaker 1: you've just basically ruined it for yourself. So for me, UM,

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Speaker 1: I I feel like the formula is like I have

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Speaker 1: to come to it with joy. I have to come

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Speaker 1: to it genuinely wanting to do it, um. And then

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Speaker 1: once I'm in UM, then it's every day because you

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Speaker 1: just want to. It's like a body scan of really

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Speaker 1: amazement when I, you know, think of myself jumping off

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Speaker 1: speaker stacks into crowds, or doesn't even living in a

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Speaker 1: on a tour bus, or like, you know, the occupational

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Speaker 1: hazards of being a musician, just running and being like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, everything works, nothing hurts. How is this possible?

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Speaker 1: You know? And I know that as time progresses there

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Speaker 1: will be obstacles, But at this point in my life, incredibly,

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Speaker 1: I'm out on the trail and the rivers running by

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Speaker 1: me and nothing hurts. So I do it as much

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Speaker 1: for that reason, you know. Okay, let's go back. You're

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Speaker 1: born in New Delhi. Do you have any memories of

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Speaker 1: New Delhi? And how does the family end up in Canada?

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Speaker 1: They left when I was three? Um, I don't I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's that thing where you have pictures in

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Speaker 1: your head. That are the photographs you saw. But um,

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Speaker 1: they got work in Canada as teachers. Um. I think

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Speaker 1: it was again through Michael Snow and Joyce Wheland, who

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Speaker 1: my mother is a visual artist. And Joyce Leland was

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Speaker 1: a tragically overlooked in my opinion artist. She's the wife

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Speaker 1: of Michael Snow who's very famous in Canada. But she

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Speaker 1: did like almost like Tracy Emmon style, like fabric work,

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Speaker 1: really cool stuff ahead of her time. But I believe

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Speaker 1: they helped um along with UM. That's right, Zalman from

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Speaker 1: The Loving Spoonful. I mean, honestly, you might know as

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Speaker 1: well as I do. I don't have to ask my mom.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember how, but it was just you know,

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Speaker 1: you're growing up, you're like, oh, yeah, of course your

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Speaker 1: pals with him, UM and I and I have seen

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Speaker 1: the letters where my dad wrote and said, hey guys,

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Speaker 1: UM any word of work, you know. And obviously at

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Speaker 1: that time it was um not related to anything to

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Speaker 1: do with military service. But the previous Trudeau, obviously Pierre

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Speaker 1: Trudeau is really opening the borders to people. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people were coming in the seventies, so this was

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Speaker 1: seventies six. Um, so wait, so I was two or

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Speaker 1: three whatever, seventy six something like that. Um and Zal

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Speaker 1: I think I think maybe he was the one who

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Speaker 1: found sent my dad like a clipping that some remote

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Speaker 1: school in the north, um you know, deep snow. Uh

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Speaker 1: I was looking for teachers, and they applied, they got

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Speaker 1: my dad got a job immediately, I guess. So my

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Speaker 1: poor brother and sister went from you know, being in

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Speaker 1: India two being in you know, snow up to your neck.

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Speaker 1: And the quintessential Haynes family photograph is I'm a baby

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Speaker 1: and they're we're all standing in front of the sign

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Speaker 1: that says like no food or fuel north. At this point,

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Speaker 1: it's just like snow up to your ears. And you

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Speaker 1: know they were adventurers. I think that was their love story. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so how long were you in that area or did

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Speaker 1: you move to the city? Uh? Well, the families sort

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Speaker 1: of stayed there, um north in and around. Uh, but

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Speaker 1: I when I was fifteen moved to Toronto. Just you know,

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Speaker 1: because they've got a lot of Americans listening, We're not

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Speaker 1: Canadians savvy. Where exactly is this in Canada? Um? Well,

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Speaker 1: I do value my privacy, Bob, So it's North I'm

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Speaker 1: just talking. No, No, I'm talking about where you grew

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Speaker 1: up with your parents. Yeah, we're all that snow. Oh

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Speaker 1: so it's it's it's within close driving distance of Toronto

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Speaker 1: that you grew up. The first place that they that

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Speaker 1: they landed was smooth Rock Falls, which I don't remember.

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Speaker 1: And just where is that? Is that? North five fars? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I should also full disclosure and really bad with like

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Speaker 1: and believe me, I get mocked for this of having

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Speaker 1: a band called Metric and being like I can't measure anything,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm not trying to, you know, I'm like, how

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Speaker 1: far is it? I'm like, I don't know. I'm measuring

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Speaker 1: it in time, you know. My brother's like how big?

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Speaker 1: How big is it? I'm like, I don't know. He's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if you hold two albums up? Is it two albums?

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Speaker 1: Is it one? So just so you know, that's why

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Speaker 1: I'm extra sketchy on those U okay the files kilometers

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Speaker 1: you're living far from civilization. You come to Toronto with fifteen,

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Speaker 1: but prior to being fifteen, are you out in the boonies? No?

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Speaker 1: They moved to this other town that was more like

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Speaker 1: weird and the kind of place that you want to

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Speaker 1: probably get out of quickly. And if you wanted to

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Speaker 1: get in your car and drive to Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto,

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Speaker 1: how long does that take. It's a couple of hours

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Speaker 1: to Toronto. Okay. So you're growing up, do you have

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Speaker 1: a perception that your parents are outsiders bohemians? Are they

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Speaker 1: just teachers and you're a regular kid in the in

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Speaker 1: the town? Um? Yeah, I think I yeah, I felt

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Speaker 1: the weirdness. Um, but it took a while because I

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Speaker 1: just was having such a good time. Like we had

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Speaker 1: this huge backyard and you know, it's that thing where

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Speaker 1: you're a kid and you don't realize that you don't

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Speaker 1: have any money, and then it's like later, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: weird they you know, we were taking the washing to

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Speaker 1: the dryer in the laundromat because it broke and they

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Speaker 1: couldn't fix it. You know, it's like, right, this is

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Speaker 1: a bohemian situation. But I was just the house was

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Speaker 1: full of all these like crazy beautiful pieces from India

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Speaker 1: and their travels and books and music, and we were

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Speaker 1: having a good time and um, but yeah, I remember

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Speaker 1: there being a story about one of the neighbors saying

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Speaker 1: because my parents had friends over probably um uh, Michael

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Speaker 1: snow Enjoyce Weeland came up from the city and they

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Speaker 1: had quite a few garbage bags out, I guess. And

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Speaker 1: then the rumor was that my parents were having orgies.

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Speaker 1: So it was. And I remember also my mom Blesser

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Speaker 1: had to do some supply teaching at some point, which

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's still the case for kids

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Speaker 1: now of how this works in schools where you'd have

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Speaker 1: to wheel a cart through or did you have that? Yeah,

359
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Speaker 1: so in this school, and I believe it was because

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Speaker 1: she was supply teaching French. And again, I'd love to

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Speaker 1: do a whole other conversation with you about French and

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Speaker 1: English in Canada. Fascinating amount of um sort of dissonance

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Speaker 1: between the two languages. Sadly, you know where no one

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Speaker 1: wants to go to French class. And my father's the

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Speaker 1: French teacher who's like, but I've been in Paris, you

366
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Speaker 1: would love it, you know, takes all these kids to

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Speaker 1: Paris and they're like, oh, it is school to teach French.

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Speaker 1: She and so she's being a supply teacher in French

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Speaker 1: and no one wants to take French. They make you

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Speaker 1: were a heart, and I'm an American. Are we referring

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Speaker 1: to home economics? I don't know what supply teacher is,

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Speaker 1: so it's no, A supply teacher is like a substitute teacher.

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Speaker 1: The word the world doesn't really make sense. It's true,

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Speaker 1: substitute teacher. Um so, yes, this is all just in

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Speaker 1: relation to did I know my parents were weird? Was

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Speaker 1: I remember? My mom wore like really bright stockings and

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Speaker 1: everyone just lost it, like they were like, with this

378
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Speaker 1: cannot be like you know, they're probably read or something.

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Speaker 1: And I was in maybe the fifth grade or something

380
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Speaker 1: like that. Um, so later I I and obviously now

381
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Speaker 1: with time, I'm like, oh my god, these people live.

382
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 1: These guys are legends. They did such cool stuff. Okay,

383
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Speaker 1: so you're in the house living with very artistic people

384
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Speaker 1: they is it totally free form, run free, do whatever

385
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Speaker 1: you want? Is it? No? You have to take piano lessons. No,

386
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Speaker 1: you have to watch public television. What's it like growing

387
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Speaker 1: up in the house. Well, you know, it's and it's

388
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Speaker 1: funny how much things have changed, because I mean, I'm

389
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Speaker 1: only forty eight. But the you know, we had two channels,

390
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Speaker 1: so there wasn't a lot of having to control what

391
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Speaker 1: you watched because and then there was like a really

392
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Speaker 1: big deal when we got the box that you could

393
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Speaker 1: press the buttons to watch TV. But even then, you

394
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 1: know that was not something that could even be restricted. Um,

395
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Speaker 1: I did from discover early in terms of chores and

396
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 1: stuff that if I said that I had an idea

397
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Speaker 1: that I wanted to play on the piano because I

398
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Speaker 1: picked it up really young, if I said that, I

399
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 1: could get out of doing the dishes, and I think

400
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: that may have sort of defined my choices made a

401
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 1: big That was a big revelation of like, I see

402
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: how this works. If I'm at the piano, maybe I

403
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: can get away from the mundane and would be the

404
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 1: type of thing where everybody's doing their own thing, where

405
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Speaker 1: you sit for dinner with the whole family and you

406
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: have discussions and they pull things out of you. Yeah,

407
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: we would always set for dinner. That was that was

408
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: definitely a thing. And in the morning because we're every

409
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Speaker 1: you know, everyone's getting up at the same time. Um

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Speaker 1: My mom when she was working was the teacher as well.

411
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Speaker 1: My dad would play the craziest music like Dai Gelo

412
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Speaker 1: Abortions was a favorite um in the morning, which she

413
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: would also do in his classes, but it could other

414
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Speaker 1: times be like Albert Eisler or like, you know, some

415
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 1: of the craziest jazz you've ever heard in your life,

416
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: and he'd just be like, you know, handle it. Um,

417
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: So the mornings were fun for that? And what kind

418
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: of kid were you? Popular? Unpopular, good student, bad student?

419
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: I was a good student. I really loved school, um.

420
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Speaker 1: And I had a lot of friends. I feel like,

421
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: I like there was a lot of I feel like

422
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: I was betrayed a lot um, which is probably more

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Speaker 1: of a conversation for a shrink, although I'd like free therapy.

424
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm gonna give anything back. But

425
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 1: what did that betrayal look like? Like? You know my

426
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: best friends? Um? You know it's like you had Madonna

427
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: and you had Cyndi Lauper, And I was like, oh man,

428
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: I really you know, click with Cyndi Lauper and I

429
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: actually got to play her benefit. We sand give me

430
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: sympathy together. It was amazing later in life. But um,

431
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 1: you know the idea of girls just want to have

432
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: fun key line in there after the working day is done,

433
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,239
Speaker 1: girls just want to have fun. I was like, I

434
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: love how she buried. The lead, which is you have

435
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: a life, you have your own money. You're like a

436
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: self possessed person who can be whatever you are. Really

437
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: great message for like an eleven year old, and you

438
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: do know that it was written by a man, Robert Hazard,

439
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: out of Philadelphia. Boys boys just want to have fun. Well, however,

440
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: whatever does not mean I hear what you're saying. It's

441
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: just fascinating. The guy had one quasi hit, uh, the

442
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: Escalator of Life, which was great, but his other claim

443
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: to fame was he wrote girls Just want boy was

444
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 1: really boy just want to have fun. That does not

445
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: undercut your It doesn't mean whatsoever. But okay, so you

446
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: were into Cydey Law for everybody else and my best friend, yeah,

447
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: well my best friend was into Madonna, which was obviously

448
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: very sexualized. I think it's around the time and she's

449
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,959
Speaker 1: like on that boat in Venice, which was just like

450
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: what's happening? Um? And my boyfriend and my best friend

451
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: which was her, they walked me around the field and

452
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: said we have to talk to you. I was like, okay,

453
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: like you're my best friend and you're my boyfriend, and

454
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: they were like we're together now. Um, that's betrayal. Yeah,

455
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 1: because and it's because like I you know, I wasn't sexual, right,

456
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not, I wasn't so and she was.

457
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 1: I was Cindy Lawfer, she was Madonna. And then it

458
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: was less so sad, and then I like, still after school,

459
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: I still went to her house because she's my best friend.

460
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 1: And then he's just calling her at her house instead

461
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: of me. So I feel like, you know, you can

462
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: make a case for anything in your life, but I

463
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: feel like when I if you know, one of the

464
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: takeaways of my life from a child my childhood was betrayal.

465
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: So I'm very loyal and really admire that in other

466
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: people too. It was there another instance of betrayal or

467
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: that just you know, was so big that it overshadows

468
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,719
Speaker 1: everything else. There's been a lot, but that's you know.

469
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: My favorite. One of my favorite lines that I quote

470
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: all the time is from Michael Andrews, who produced Old

471
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 1: World Underground. We were at the very beginning of everything

472
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: twenty years ago ish and he said, um, if you

473
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: sell your personal life, you can never buy it back, which,

474
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: of course at that time I was like, what are

475
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: you been talking about? Nobody even were at playing the

476
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: silver Lake lound like there's no danger of that, and

477
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: there have been so many instances where I've been, you know, tempted,

478
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 1: and I just my life is my own. Thank you,

479
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: Michael Andrew's Okay, just so I know if you did

480
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: sell your personal life, what would that look like? There

481
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: are some some crazy stories, so I think that it

482
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: would look like, Um, it would be it would explain

483
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: a lot of things. But I have made the decision

484
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: that I'd rather be a writer, protect my privacy and

485
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: not let let things go. Okay, you're a very dynamic

486
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: person who knows where she's going. Were you a leader

487
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: or ringleader? Growing up? Uh? Yeah, yeah, I think I'm

488
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: having a memory of like something in kindergarten where they

489
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: I think they said, like she always wants to like

490
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: be the mom and the thing or whatever. They just

491
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: judge you, right, So funny reading those things. Um, but yeah,

492
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: I think I was. I was revved up. I was

493
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: ready to do some stuff. And did you have a

494
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: dream at a very young age or you ultimately just

495
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: went down the road and ended up where you did it? Was?

496
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so it's painfully earnest and genuine five

497
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: year old going to the piano, writing a song, being

498
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: like this is all I want to do, and being

499
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: fortunate enough to be in this environment, um, where I

500
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: was just so supported to do that. Even though pop

501
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: music and the style of music that I write is

502
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: like it's it might as well be you know, the biggest,

503
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: the biggest rebellion of all time is to make music

504
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: that is as accessible as the music that I make. Um,

505
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: But that was all every It's just wild now to

506
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: be me as a grown up. It's exactly what I wanted. Okay,

507
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: did your parents you know, you said you played the

508
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: piano to get out of washing the dishes, But did

509
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: they encourage artistic endeavors? Did they give you piano lessons?

510
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: Are you totally self talk? Um? They did. My Uh.

511
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: I had a piano teacher who was not very supportive, um,

512
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: which I think is also cool. She was like not

513
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: impressed by the song I wrote when I was five,

514
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: which I still remember that song, but which I think

515
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: is good, Like whatever, get used to it. And you know,

516
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: the conservatory stuff was really hell for me. That you know,

517
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: I feel like my mom really did the right thing

518
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: of being like if you show an interest, if you

519
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: can afford it to try to support that. But when

520
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: she saw you know what that did to me. Those

521
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: terrible for me. The conservatory stuff was just like that

522
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: is not my world. Um, the judgment. So then they

523
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: just just yeah, I guess believed to me and helped me. Um,

524
00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, made it possible for me to go to

525
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: that school when I was fifteen, and the you know,

526
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: the principle of the school that I was at was

527
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: like you got to get out of here and help

528
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: me get an audition and get in. Okay, just going

529
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: sideways for a second. So your siblings, you have two

530
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: siblings and they're older than you, so you like the

531
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: baby of the family or was there very cohesive with

532
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: you and your siblings. Well, it was kind of like

533
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: we were two families because and I felt bad for

534
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: my brother and sister because I would find it annoying

535
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: because you know, Tim was born in New York City,

536
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 1: Beth Israel, whatever was sixty five or something, and then

537
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: they went to New Mexico and had my sister, and

538
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: then they just did that for like that was like

539
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: nine years. And then they're in India and it's like

540
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,479
Speaker 1: they planned nine years later baby, which was me. So

541
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: and then that's when they stopped all the travel. You know,

542
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: all the photos up till then are like beautiful black

543
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: and white photos and like Rome and Morocco and you know,

544
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: and then now it's just like you're in a generic

545
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: Canadian northern town getting beat up by hockey players and

546
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: going into puberty. That was what my brother and sister's

547
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: experience was so um. But I had a very My

548
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: life was all in one place, but they were always traveling.

549
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: So your sister is a news reporter, Your brother does one.

550
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,719
Speaker 1: He has a record store um called Blue Streak Records,

551
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: which has been amazing to watch. It's like having a

552
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: line on just the amount of intel that I get

553
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: vintage record store. He sells new as well, but he's

554
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: sold vinyl for over twenty years. It's almost like thirty

555
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: now something. Uh, And so many times when people were like,

556
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: you gotta go out of business, You've got to close down.

557
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: It's over c DS, this, that the other thing. And

558
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: now he's like, it's just amazing to see as vinyl

559
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: is king. And he's like I was standing here all along,

560
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: and where is this store that's in town called Peterborough,

561
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: just outside of Toronto, right hyd sister end up in

562
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: the news business. She was very talented. She was as

563
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: a young woman. She got on the radio. UM I remember,

564
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: like I think she was just still in high school,

565
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: even like she had a summer job or something like that. Um.

566
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: And then she got into Ryerson, which is the college

567
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: in uh Toronto for communications. And then she got hired

568
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: really early at CFRB, which is the main news radio station.

569
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: And it was still at that time where you know,

570
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: nobody would blink when you said, like, men do news,

571
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: girls do traffic. It was that, you know, it's all

572
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: very anchorman her whole career. But uh, and then she

573
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: got into television, had all kinds of wild adventures um

574
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: in the public eye. And now is the head of

575
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: what's called W five and Canada. It's a very respected,

576
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: um investigative journalism team that she heads up and it's

577
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: like prime time and she's she's cool. Well, one has

578
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: to ask, even though we've damced around it, what was

579
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: in the water that these two women were uh so

580
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: intelligent and pushing forward in their careers. Was it something

581
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, you know, since there are two of you,

582
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: when you're so successful, I wouldn't think it just happened.

583
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: There must have been something your parents said or some

584
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: sort of environment or something. I mean, I feel like

585
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: my mom and dad were really cool people who really

586
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: set us straight. Of like again, for depending what you

587
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: want to do right, Like you know, success obviously is

588
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: only measured by what you actually want to achieve the

589
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: most obvious thing. But people forget right, Like I think

590
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: they just distilled in us this idea, like instilled and

591
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: distilled over the years. Were like, you know, you're what

592
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: you what do you? What's your point? You know, like

593
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: do something? Um and I then I think all three

594
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: of us do in our own way contribute something as

595
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: a result. So tell me about going to the conservatory

596
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: and what that experience was, Like, oh man, just you know,

597
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: it's like a bad like uh flashback footage from a

598
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: TV show or something. It's just you know, you're walking

599
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: down the dark hall and like the sterile environment and

600
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: the clackity clack of the heels and going into this

601
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: room where there's a panel of judges. It's cold and

602
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 1: air conditioned and unpleasant, unhappy looking women usually judging you.

603
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: Just like sitting down at the piano and trying to

604
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: play something that someone else wrote, and I was just

605
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: like this I was so like whatever magic or talent

606
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: or however small it might be that I had, it

607
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 1: was instantly extinguished in that environment. Um. And so luckily

608
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: my mom was like, Okay, that's not happening. So how

609
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: did you end up going to school in Toronto? Him?

610
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: What was that like? Um? That was the you know

611
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: against funny most people can remember, like the great teachers

612
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: and the terrible teachers. And so the great teachers that

613
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: helped me that the one the principal, Dr pap ky

614
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: Um because I was being terrorized by my grade seven teacher.

615
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: I skipped a grade and he just I don't know.

616
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: He was one of those people who was like, I'm

617
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: gonna bring her down. And it was so out of hand,

618
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 1: and I was getting sent to the principal's office every

619
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: day and Dr Pappy was like, we gotta get you,

620
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: we gotta get you. Daddy here, and he he told

621
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: me about the school. He and the music teacher helped

622
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: me prepare an audition and I actually got in to

623
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: go for the ninth grade. Um. But my parents thought

624
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: I was I was so young because I was only

625
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: like because I had skipped a grade, I was like

626
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: thirteen or something. So then we waited till eleventh grade. UM,

627
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 1: and that was just the most amazing thing. My sister

628
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: let me live with her in the city, and that

629
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: school was just everything. They I auditioned with one of

630
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: my own songs that I wrote. They let me UM

631
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: developed my own curriculum around my writing. And and they're

632
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: actually every all the sort of types of people that

633
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: you fall into those boring traps in high school. We're

634
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 1: just totally blurred because so many different people were into

635
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: different things. And I met my best friends. It was

636
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: I feel so lucky to go to that school. And

637
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: so you go to that school for two years and

638
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 1: you graduate and then what at that time in Canada

639
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: it was three because we had grade thirteen UM. And

640
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: then I was at a real crossroads because I loved school,

641
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: as I said, UM, and I got this award, like

642
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: this big award that was like most likely to achieve

643
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: in the arts. UM. But I felt really weird about

644
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: like studying music. I just may be because of that

645
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: conservatory stuff or I just it felt like I don't

646
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: want to, like I'm not trying to get a PhD

647
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: in like you know, talk like what are we what

648
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: are we talking about? I want to I need to

649
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 1: go have an amazing life and write about it, like

650
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: that's what you do. I probably need to go meet

651
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: Lou Reed, which I ended up doing. But uh, after that,

652
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: the program that I decided to go into is this

653
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 1: program called Arts one at the University of British Columbia UM,

654
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: which was pretty crazy and exclusive to get into. The

655
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: small program that was UM where you get all your

656
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: credits around one theme. It's a very small group of kids,

657
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: and the theme was First Nations land claims, the legal side,

658
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: the ethical side, the history, the geography of the you know,

659
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: the land that we were talking about, just just for

660
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: those outside Canada First Nations or Native Americans in the

661
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 1: United States, people who were here before the Caucasians came. Correct.

662
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: So I had a teacher, Leslie Pinder, who was a lawyer. UM.

663
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: And you know, it's become a very big topic of

664
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: reckoning in Canada in recent years. UM. At that time

665
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: it didn't. It felt quite fringe e UM. But so uh,

666
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: such a so perfect program for me where I like,

667
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: here's our theme, but we're actually talking about everything else.

668
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 1: You can learn everything under that theme, but the oral

669
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: history of these traditions and UM. But I wasn't suited

670
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: to the like despite my claims of wanting to be

671
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: this poet athlete, the gortex lifestyle and the you know

672
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: the latter is it just wasn't for me. Um, I

673
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: don't ski. I I was wearing tivas. I just remember

674
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: being like, I'm not myself. I don't know what's happening.

675
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: Why am I wearing a patigony jacket, like I, I

676
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: think I gotta go. As I had my piano in

677
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: a closet, I was like always sneaking into the music

678
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: building to go, like spend all my time in the

679
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: dark at a piano in a practice room is like,

680
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 1: this isn't right. So I uh, I decided to pivot

681
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: and go to Montreal where I studied electro acoustics, which

682
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: was really cool. Where I did like splicing tape and

683
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: getting into analog synthesis and uh finished out my degree.

684
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 1: There was that more of the engineering or the performing,

685
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: so it was more the inside like I wasn't I

686
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: wasn't studying again like I was always felt weird, like

687
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: studying the thing that I wanted to do. I felt

688
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: like I should study all the sort of adjacent UH

689
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: areas and then and then just right from whatever the

690
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: hell was happening. Um so this was in keeping with that.

691
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: It was like electro acoustics of of was learning was

692
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: learning about Like ye as I said, Analog said, this

693
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 1: is with the huge you know where you're doing patch bays,

694
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: You're you're cutting and splicing quarter inch tape. Um studied

695
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: a lot of music history and there was some theory

696
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: in there that some of it I got kind of into,

697
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: but mostly was over my head. Um. But it was

698
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: a great environment to be in and you graduate and

699
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: then and then I came back to uh to Toronto

700
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: and uh met by chance, uh James Shaw who had

701
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 1: just graduated from Juilliard studying trumpet, and he came back

702
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: and we met and then started It's the Key to

703
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: the metric. Literally, Uh so I was. It was this

704
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: place called I mean, it's this it's so funny as

705
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: time goes on, the story is just so ridiculous and

706
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: scripted sounding. So there's this venue called the horse Shoe

707
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: and anyone who knows it in Toronto will be like

708
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: full body eye roll. The Horseshoe was like the classic venue,

709
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: the classic tavern, the place that you started all, you know,

710
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: kind of like the Mercury Lounge in New York, and

711
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: we had mutual friends that were playing, and we were

712
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: introduced by this guy, Joe Phillips, who's a really great musician.

713
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: And I was leaning on the pool table and Jimmy

714
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: Cami leaned on the pool table, and we both sort

715
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: of proceeded to, uh make a concise list of all

716
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: the things that we thought weren't working about the Canadian

717
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: music industry, um, the band that had just played the

718
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: future of Music, all the things, and you know, sort

719
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: of committed to this life together, um right then and

720
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: there and said we got to move to New York,

721
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: which we did. Okay, So this was also a romance, correct?

722
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: And how long or to this day did the romance last? Um?

723
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: I feel like I need to ask him again. This

724
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: also counts as a measurement, by the way, which we've

725
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: established full disclosure. I'm terrible at so we what was that? Um? Right?

726
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: So it's like until my father passed away, we were

727
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: together and then which was two thousand three. Was that

728
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: a triggering event your father? Yes? What was going on there?

729
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: Everything just fell apart. I mean it was like the

730
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: end of my youth, the end of the whole point

731
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 1: of everything, which was his mind and the story that

732
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: you know is being created um as a result of

733
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: the work that he had done and the peep the

734
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: world that he showed me, UM, and the way that

735
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: I that I found out, UM, which was just you know,

736
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: we just finished our record. I'm at a at the

737
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: Kinkos at Beverly and whatever in l A and um,

738
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: photocopying flyers for our next show. And I was actually

739
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: there with a friend. And at the time it's hard

740
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: to believe, like Jimmy and I shared a phone, a

741
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: flip phone, UM, but I would use the landline at

742
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: the kink Goes all the time because they had those

743
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: phones there and you could just use it. UM. And

744
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: I called Jimmy about something like else, just being like,

745
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, hey, what time are we all getting together

746
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: to celebrate the end recording the record of the finishing

747
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: the album. And he's telling me stuff and he said,

748
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: by the way, your sister called and left a message.

749
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: He said, it's really important. That's all really important. And

750
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: so I'm like okay, and I'm with my friend and

751
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: photo copying stuff and he suddenly, um apropos of nothing

752
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: gets this really weird look on his face and says,

753
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: something really bad is about to happen and I have

754
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: to get out of here. And I was like, okay,

755
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: you're I mean, you've always been kind of a weirdo,

756
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: but that's pretty weird. But okay, catch you later. And

757
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: he's got this like terrible look on his face and

758
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: he leaves. UM, keep photo copying whatever. And then I'm like,

759
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: all right, I should call my sister back. So I've

760
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: used the landline, and as I do, and I call

761
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: her and she just tells me that he's dead, and

762
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: like you know, I went into complete shock. I couldn't

763
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: remember my address, I couldn't remember any phone numbers. I

764
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: was on the ground in the Kinkos and people, sadly

765
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: humanity people just fully walking by like nobody. I was like, oh,

766
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 1: this person seems like they could use some assistance, um

767
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: and I and I was like completely incapacitated. And I

768
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: saw the back of this this guy, and I, for

769
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 1: whatever reason, was felt like that I could connect with that.

770
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: And I stood up and I just said can you

771
00:44:54,000 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: help me? And he said yes, UM, And I said, okay, well,

772
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: I don't know where I live and I don't know

773
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: like who I am or what. I don't know what,

774
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening. And he was Canadian, believe

775
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 1: it or not, and he and his girlfriend, uh, walked

776
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: outside with me, and I have a lot of this.

777
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: I only remember because we later like had them come

778
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: to shows and we were eternally grateful to them. But they,

779
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: I guess, got me to remember Jimmy's phone number, so

780
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: then they call him and then he gets to have

781
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: the same complete world destroying experience of being like, you know,

782
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: what just happened? And then he came to get me.

783
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: We went back to this place we're renting. We walked

784
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: in and the whole place smelled like my father's cologne.

785
00:45:54,880 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 1: The whole place was just like cologne. Um. And then

786
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 1: and then it was like I was on a plane

787
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 1: and that was just like the end of my youth,

788
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 1: the end I could, you know. Jimmy and I tried,

789
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: but for whatever reason we just couldn't get back to

790
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: whatever innocent sort of thing we'd had. It just it

791
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: just broke. And then all the shows were happening constantly

792
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: on tour like very unhealthy um, and I was just

793
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: basically throwing myself off the top of like speakers or

794
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: whatever else. I just I was so self destructive. It

795
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: was insane to me that I'm here able to like

796
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: go for a run and have nothing broken. Um, but

797
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: yeah that was how that? How did your father die? Um?

798
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: Just a very sudden heart failure, so definitely sudden. So

799
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: you go to New York? Now, needless to say, to

800
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: stay in New York. There's issues of a green card, etcetera.

801
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: So how do you end up going to New York

802
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: and staying in New York? And what do you doing

803
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: to New York? Well, I've always had an American passport

804
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: and Jimmy had a green card. So how did you

805
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: have an American passport? My parents were both American? Okay,

806
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: so the fact you're born a New Delhi and you

807
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: never lived in America, it doesn't matter. You have an

808
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: American passport. Vassar Michigan and uh you know Brewer remain

809
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: my parents. Okay, great, So you're in New York. What's

810
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: the plan. What do you do? The plan is to survive? Um?

811
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: Not easy. We had that. We were lucky to have

812
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 1: a place to stay. Um that a friend had lent

813
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: us on Seventh Street between A and B. That was

814
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: pretty great, and it was like, Okay, it's gonna be hard.

815
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: Hit the pavement. Got to get a job, you know.

816
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: Going out there, I'm like, okay, I got all my resumes,

817
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna wait tables. I walk around the corner,

818
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: I walk into Cafe or Lynn on Eighth Street. I

819
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: hand my resume and they're like great. I leave. By

820
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: the time I get back to the place, they've called,

821
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: get home. At the end of the day, they've called,

822
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: and I'm hired. So it wasn't at all like you know,

823
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: and Cafe ere Lynn is a legendary spot that I

824
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: feel so lucky to have worked out and actually stayed

825
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: in touch with the owners um a vig door uh

826
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: for for years. So it was that was it. That

827
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: was the hustle, and then the hustle was where the

828
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: hell are you going to live? Um And sadly, at

829
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: that time it became clear that we were going to

830
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: have to go to Brooklyn, or even worse, it looked

831
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: like it was going to be Williamsburg, which the taxis

832
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,439
Speaker 1: wouldn't even take you across the bridge. When I'd finished work,

833
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 1: I'd have to lie and then change my destination because

834
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 1: otherwise they wouldn't start the meter. UM. So we're trying

835
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: to find something. We're trying to find something, and Jimmy saw,

836
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, at that time it would be like a

837
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,720
Speaker 1: poster with the numbers on the bottom that you break

838
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,240
Speaker 1: one off and call the number. So, uh, Jimmy find

839
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: something like that. And for this like ridiculously huge not

840
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: for human habitation UM warehouse kind of space strangely is

841
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 1: on the L train. First off on the L train

842
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: in the shape of an l over a trucking company

843
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: sharedal trucking UM. And he reaches out to Stanley, and

844
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: Stanley is like, sure, maybe I'll let you get the

845
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: get the lease on this place, but can you take

846
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,439
Speaker 1: my dad to the dentists? Can you take my dad?

847
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: He's got he's got an eye appointment. Can you take him? Like,

848
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 1: Jimmy drove around Stanley Green's dad, um until I guess

849
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: Stanley got a good enough vibe. And then Jimmy was

850
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,399
Speaker 1: in the position of having to pull together all these

851
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: tenants because it's not like we could handle the rent.

852
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: But it's got all these spaces. It's like rooms supposedly

853
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: for human habitation, two bathrooms and just like raw space

854
00:49:54,760 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: of rooms um Metropolitan between Bedford and Tricks. So one

855
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,479
Speaker 1: of the first people that shows up to move in

856
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: is Niaxine zinner Um with eurygene Chun, which is uh.

857
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,439
Speaker 1: She was an amazing visual artists. I'm sure she still

858
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 1: is um. And then a hilarious cast of characters ensued UM,

859
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: including Friends of Ours, members from Stars, Chris Seligman, Um

860
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: moved in, future members of TV on the radio, members

861
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: of Liars, Um, and you know, whatever people said about

862
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 1: the sixties, this was the opposite. Was like everyone was

863
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: just like, we gotta get We're so motivated because we

864
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 1: want to get out of here. Um. You know, heated

865
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: by oil. This huge truck would come up, but you

866
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: could there's no way to like see when it was

867
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: running out. So we would just all be living in

868
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: terror through the winter of like any minute now it's

869
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: going to run out, and we'll have no idea how

870
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: much it's gonna cost or when it's going to be

871
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: And then it would just be like and sure enough,

872
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: you're out, and Jimmy would have to go knock on

873
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: everyone's door and be like I need three hundred bucks

874
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: uh from each of you know, to like fill the

875
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: tank and uh, the sound of trucks revving underneath. But

876
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: amazing time, an amazing start. And uh we met Josh

877
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: and Jules and that in that window too. Okay, So

878
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: tell us about the music end of it. Well, we

879
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: were doing uh are sort of like bedroom electronic stuff,

880
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: a lot of which is represented on the album Grew

881
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: Up and Blow Away. Um. We had no live existence whatsoever.

882
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: We were just into recording recorded music UM and kind

883
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: of this like, ah, there's an innocence to it that

884
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: I love when I listen back. UM. And we got

885
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: a lot of interest out of the UK UM. And

886
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: this manager invited us to come and like just like

887
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 1: he was like, move here, I'm going to get you

888
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: a publishing deal. I'm going to get you a record deal.

889
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: You don't even need to play a show. People have

890
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: heard these demos, which is a word I'm now allergic

891
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: to to um demos and uh, come on over him

892
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: and make you a star. And we were like great,

893
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 1: and we both quit our jobs. Jimmy was working at

894
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: a dinner which is like the really cool restaurant in Williamsburg.

895
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: Again it hadn't been there before, but it was like,

896
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: you know, it's like that time Williamsburg Win Like the

897
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: White Stripes was just blaring out of someone's window as

898
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 1: they drove by, and like, you know, the Strokes were

899
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: just like playing such great music and cool stuff was happening. Um.

900
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: So but we were like, okay, we're going um And

901
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: it was amazingly fulfilling in the fact that we did

902
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: get this publishing deal that that was a good deal,

903
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: I believe it or not, and did support us through

904
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: what would would what would come, you know. But the

905
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 1: whole process of the demos for the record labels thing

906
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: was was pretty onerous and I was pretty allergic to

907
00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: that and we ended up having to come back. And

908
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: even though I quit my job at Cafe or Lynn,

909
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 1: Luckily I wasn't a bridge burner because when I humbly

910
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: was like because they were all like, good for you,

911
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: you're going Like when I came back, they just said,

912
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: no problem, I'm you gotta shift on Thursday, you know. Um.

913
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 1: And that's when we were like we got to start

914
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: a band. A couple of a couple of questions, how

915
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: long were you in the UK? Uh? So we went

916
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: into that. It was like it was like a year

917
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: and a half and did that publishing deal intop haunting

918
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: you in the future. No, it actually was a good deal.

919
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: I mean as much as a publishing deal can be

920
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: a good deal, UM. But no, I mean we're well

921
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: out of it UM. And it gave us at least

922
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: some infrastructure UM and an office that I could mail

923
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: my cdr s out of in uh Los Angeles. So okay,

924
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: so you come back to New York. Do you stay

925
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: in the same place in the yell we did, which

926
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: also hurt because we had all our we had to

927
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: We were waiting for all our furniture to be shipped

928
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: from London because we'd like we went there. We got

929
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: a publishing deal, and we got this beautiful place on

930
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: Charlotte Road again kind of like Williamsburg before shortage completely

931
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: took off. We found this cool place UM and bought

932
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of furniture and we were like, this is

933
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: where it's all going to happen, and then had to

934
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 1: face the fact that it wasn't. UM but happily. Years later,

935
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: on um our album Art of Doubt, we did a

936
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: mural campaign called is this Dystopia? That was just the

937
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 1: question that we put to the world. We did it

938
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: in London, New York, Los Angeles, Toronto, and unbelievably we

939
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: get we're on the promo trip. This is like and

940
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: the mural. If you're looking at the mural, you can

941
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: see the window of the apartment of the loft that

942
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 1: Jimmy and I had on Charlotte Road. It was like

943
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:53,720
Speaker 1: the most unbelievable place and and connection to the past

944
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: I have really ever experienced. So I I have no

945
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: no qualms about that time in London, but it hurts.

946
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: It was It was a big fall. So you're back

947
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: in New York, you work in your day gig, and

948
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,879
Speaker 1: you say you gotta put together a band flesh that out.

949
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:15,439
Speaker 1: So we played a show at oh Man. It used

950
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 1: to be the place under the Fez Cafe, under the

951
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: Time Cafe, which has now been a million other things.

952
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 1: I think it's the Lafayette now. UM and we it

953
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: was just me and Jimmy. UM. We had been, as

954
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: I think from our previous conversation I mentioned, you know,

955
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: doing our own kind of like CDR mix UH distribution campaign.

956
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: So some people in New York knew our songs, UM

957
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: and we luckily knew Sam who worked at Beacon's Closet. Um,

958
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: Sam who would go on to be and I believe,

959
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: of course was at that time the drummer in Interpool.

960
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: His wife owned Beacon's closet. He worked there. They had

961
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 1: records section Jewels, who became a big part of our lives,

962
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: was friends with those guys. So Sam with Sam would

963
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: stock stock our CDRs in there. So Jewels got ahold

964
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: of it. Um allegedly this is this is as the

965
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: story has been told to me. So then we play

966
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: this show Fez Cafe Terrible. There's no one there except

967
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: for really Jewels and I think a couple other people

968
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,439
Speaker 1: from the loft we're there. I can't remember. No, Nick

969
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: wasn't there because we played it just me and Jimmy.

970
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 1: Jimmy was on the drums, and we were not happy

971
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: with with how that went. And we went back, you know,

972
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: after the gig, to this place called Black Betty where

973
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: Unitar were playing, which is Nick and Karen from Yeah Yeah's.

974
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 1: That was their um acoustic thing. So they're playing. We're

975
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: just like hanging out and this guy comes up to us,

976
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: who's Jewels, Um, great looking guy. And he comes up

977
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 1: and he's like, man, I'm I love I love that show.

978
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: I love you guys. I know all your songs. I

979
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 1: love it, and Jimmy's you know, so dark, so discouraged

980
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: as we are both and he's just like great. While

981
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 1: joined the band because we need a band. Jules was

982
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: like great, Jimmy's like amazing, what are you playing? He said, drums?

983
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: Um and sort of like fine, cool done. And then

984
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: later we find out like through this sort of like

985
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: grapevine of like Williamsburg and New York music people, they're like,

986
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: you don't realize you have no idea who that drummer is.

987
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: He's insane, He's like the best drummer in New York.

988
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: You just landed this guy, sure enough. To this day,

989
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: I'm just like, who is This guy? Trained himself in

990
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: a bomb shelter he built in Texas, um and he

991
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: and and Joshua Winstead, the bass player, had moved to

992
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: New York, similarly as Jimmy and I had like sort

993
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: of as a duo looking for their other half and

994
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: they found us. So you can see why I'm so

995
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: committed to my band. Good people. Absolutely, So you now

996
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: have a drummer, what continues to happen? And how do

997
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: you end up in l A H. So we are

998
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: we have the drummer. We're we're practicing, we're trying to

999
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: get stuff started in New York. And then September eleven,

1000
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: ah happened and it seemed like we should go to

1001
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: Canada and um, so we did, and Jules came with

1002
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: He actually uh got together with his still wife, um,

1003
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: who worked at the same place as Jimmy. Like right

1004
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: before we left, we're like, what did you just do?

1005
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: Because like I'm gonna go, like I'm going to join

1006
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: the circus, but also I just found the love of

1007
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: my life. And bless them, they've stayed together, they have

1008
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: their daughter, they have their whole life, they've they did it.

1009
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: I'm so amazed. But so we came here and then

1010
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: from here we realized we had to go back to

1011
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: the US and that l A was the spot for us.

1012
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: And you go to l A. What transpires, Um, well,

1013
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: we had some good and bad luck, but more than that,

1014
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: I feel just adventures that make me so happy and

1015
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: moments of you know, I still have feel incredulous about

1016
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: things that went down, like Alex Luke, for example. So

1017
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 1: we get you know, we're just we're burning c drs. Um,

1018
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: no one's got any money, We're just playing and trying

1019
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: not to spend money and like eating expired power bars

1020
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 1: from the store and just committed right and trying to

1021
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: get a gig, trying to get something off the ground,

1022
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 1: and somehow Alex Luke I think it was somehow with

1023
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: this like CDR campaign. I swear he got his hands

1024
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: on one of these CDRs with the song combat Baby

1025
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:09,439
Speaker 1: on it and reached out to us by email and

1026
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: we became friends, and he hired us at what was

1027
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: then the new legal napster Um. He hired the four

1028
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: of us to do q R, which at the time

1029
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 1: we had no understanding of what was going on. It

1030
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: was all the companies on a daily basis, we're selling

1031
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: their catalogs to be digitized, right, and we were doing

1032
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: quality control just to confirm that the track names were

1033
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: the same as what they were supposed to be. And

1034
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 1: every day there'd be a no whole new wacky be

1035
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: like oh cool, basically just like listening to all this music,

1036
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: but zero you know, uh altitude of understanding of what

1037
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: how significant this moment was. Um. Alex Luke went on

1038
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 1: to head iTunes, which made sense UM, but around that

1039
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 1: same time he I believe it was him who sent

1040
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 1: combat Baby to k c r W. But I might

1041
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 1: be getting it backwards. It might be that Casey r

1042
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 1: W played it and he heard it on kc RW.

1043
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: He had a radio background. But at any rate, in

1044
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 1: that period of time, you know, we got these legitimate

1045
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: you know, no one's, no one's doing anything for us,

1046
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: just our own lives playing out. Our song is on

1047
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 1: the radio, and we're all making ten bucks an hour,

1048
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: the four of us in this room uploading basically ruining

1049
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: the world via digitizing everything that's ever been recorded by anyone. UM.

1050
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: And then around that time we were we were playing

1051
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 1: you know, terrible shows in like Santa Monica for people

1052
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 1: in beige shorts. It wasn't our scene, UM And somehow,

1053
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,479
Speaker 1: by good fortune, managed revel was that one of those

1054
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 1: shows and connected us as I recall, with this guy

1055
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:07,439
Speaker 1: who did UM shows at the Silver Lake Lounge. And

1056
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 1: that was the beginning, as we did a residency at

1057
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 1: the Silver Lake Lounge. Then Michael Andrews came and heard

1058
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 1: us play. Then he and Andy Factor pulled together and

1059
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: amazingly made it possible for us to make Old World

1060
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: Underground UM in two three and then and then we

1061
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: had we had a real foundation because the band was solid.

1062
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,439
Speaker 1: We had our fans. It was small, but it was real.

1063
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: We had our identity and you know, Michael Andry's like

1064
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: the kind of producer and Andy being people who were

1065
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: so in supportive us creating whatever we wanted to make.

1066
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 1: It was so weird what we made and they they

1067
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: loved it, so you you know it hindsight, it looks

1068
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: like traction out of the box with that record. What

1069
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 1: was it like on your side of the record, Well,

1070
01:02:56,600 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 1: you know, back to the reality of losing Paul Haynes

1071
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 1: on the day that we finished the album, I'll never know.

1072
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 1: And you're right, it's interesting when you look back and

1073
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: you see, you know, when you try to make a

1074
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: cohesive story come together, it does sound pretty like it

1075
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 1: was playing out pretty well. Um, it's you know, it's

1076
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 1: it's fine that it was hard work. It's supposed to

1077
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: be hard work. But that moment, I just it's just

1078
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: hard for me to have any way of evaluating because

1079
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 1: I feel like I just I don't know, I just

1080
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: checked out or something. Um, I could not. I did

1081
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: not cope well with that. And in retrospect in my

1082
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: own education now a bit more in you know, the

1083
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: way that trauma affects the body and all those considerations.

1084
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 1: I realized it was the way that I found out

1085
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: more than the fact of what happened. And I think

1086
01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 1: that feeling of like at any second everything could just

1087
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 1: be lost, is it? It's causes hyper vigilance and anxiety,

1088
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: and you know all these unpleasant sort of chemical reactions,

1089
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 1: like even talking about I feel like it's like surging

1090
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 1: through my body, this like fight or flight or like

1091
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: just you know, you want to run screaming because you

1092
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: have no control. UM. So that's that really colors my

1093
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: ability to to remember what that time felt like. Are

1094
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: you still hyper vigilant and anxious today? It's a lot better.

1095
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 1: I have. I have techniques um and philosophies that i've

1096
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: I hope are useful, since that's my point, um useful

1097
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: to other people. And I think they're in the music.

1098
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: The the idea of the music as a sort of

1099
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: salve um acknowledgement of legitimate anxieties, but also a recognition

1100
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 1: that if you can't function, you know, no amount of

1101
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 1: concern and for the well being of yourself or others

1102
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: or you know, spiraling thoughts. You're not You're not you

1103
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 1: can't you can't. If you can't function, you can't function. So, um,

1104
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: I do feel like I'm on the other side of that,

1105
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: I hope. What exactly is the technique? Uh, well, it's

1106
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 1: as much as anything, it's like a shift in my

1107
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: approach to my life, which is expressed very much on

1108
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: this new album. But so it's the sense that the

1109
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: scope of your control is actually incredibly small, and that

1110
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: reckoning with that is the first step to a really

1111
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 1: fulfilled and beautiful life. At whereas you know, feeling this

1112
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 1: sense of the vast realm of all you can control,

1113
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 1: it's everything. What you can control is so minute that

1114
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 1: that's the place to be in the seat, with your

1115
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: hands on the wheel, prepared to make decisions as you

1116
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: need to make them, but with very limited powers. Um.

1117
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: And there was actually a book that I've found incredibly helpful,

1118
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: even though it's sort of coming at it from another angle,

1119
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: but Oliver Berkman four thousand Weeks Time Management for Mortals,

1120
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,439
Speaker 1: because his you know, his whole thing is that's how

1121
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 1: long a life is. It's four thousand weeks. And some

1122
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 1: people might find that depressing or like, don't tell me that,

1123
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to, you know, to me. That's totally

1124
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 1: consistent with this philosophy I've adopted of what can I

1125
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: actually do? It's so much and it is so little.

1126
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 1: So that's sort of a the gist of it. So

1127
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: the first record comes out, there's some action to what

1128
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: degree do you play live at that time and how

1129
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: does that turn into the second record? We constantly toured

1130
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: from that point on. UM. We had an early break

1131
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 1: which was somehow actually I think it was a friend

1132
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: in Toronto who's an actor, played a song for someone.

1133
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: But olivier Is says the French director had a film

1134
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: called Clean starring Maggie chung Um and he needed a

1135
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: band to play a scene at the beginning of the film,

1136
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: have and have the song in the movie and play

1137
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 1: a scene. And he'd worked with Sonic Youth previously, who

1138
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 1: we absolutely admired and continue to admire Um, and they

1139
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 1: loved Dead Disco and cast us in this movie like

1140
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: we have lines. It's very entertaining to watch, At least

1141
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: to me, the movie starts with us, you know, talking,

1142
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: We played the song Dead Disco and then as a result,

1143
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:49,920
Speaker 1: very early we had this like beautiful moment of feeling

1144
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: very famous in Paris around that time and that was great.

1145
01:07:55,480 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: Like we went, we were it was such interesting people. Uh. Um.

1146
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: We were at the very beginning, we didn't have any clothes,

1147
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 1: like you know, Agnes b gave us closed. It was

1148
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 1: people gave us stuff because it was like Jesus, you know,

1149
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 1: what are you wearing? We were like, I have no

1150
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 1: idea even what to wear. Um. I think around that

1151
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 1: time I had one stage outfit that I just washed

1152
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 1: in a sink and bore every night. Um. So that

1153
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 1: was a really amazing moment. And we just continued to

1154
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:27,480
Speaker 1: develop the live show, which I think was getting better. Um.

1155
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: And we did uh you know some interesting stuff in

1156
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 1: l A where it was like a little more stylized,

1157
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 1: a little more styl ish, a little more fashion, you know,

1158
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 1: Nylons paying attention, stuff like that. Um. And we the

1159
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 1: pivot point I think that brought a heavier sound into

1160
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 1: our consciousness. Sort of out of necessity was um, we

1161
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 1: were playing this John Kerry benefit in Miami, which will

1162
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: tell you the rough time line. Um. And it was

1163
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 1: super swish and we're staying at the standard and everyone's

1164
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 1: stylish and you know bart bar, table service, all that

1165
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 1: stuff that we was new to us at that time,

1166
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 1: and we had that show and then we were starting

1167
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 1: this Canadian tour with this band called Billy Talent UM

1168
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 1: and the first band we were we were the main band.

1169
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 1: The first band was UM, this band called Death from

1170
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: Above and we were like, great, We're just continuing touring.

1171
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 1: It's going to be great. We fly from Miami to

1172
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: like of as I recall, like a smallish town in

1173
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 1: quebec Um and the province of quebec Is has its

1174
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 1: own you know, identity as a result of the French language. Obviously,

1175
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: UM so feeling really out there and very high contrast

1176
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:52,600
Speaker 1: to the kind of shoulders we were rubbing with, like

1177
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 1: hard rock, cold tough people. Not the band Billy Talent

1178
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 1: and not the band Death from Above nine, but the

1179
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: human beings who were assembled. We're very tough. And we

1180
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: then proceeded to get bottled and heckled two almost to death.

1181
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 1: UM to the point that Ben Um on that whole

1182
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 1: tour event as a singer and Billy Talent, he would

1183
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: come out and say, you guys, you gotta you gotta

1184
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: go easy, you gotta go easy on Metric, Like you know,

1185
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: Metric fans are getting beat up in the audience, but

1186
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: I remember I had this like so indie, you know,

1187
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,840
Speaker 1: like masking tape. I need masking tape to write like

1188
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,640
Speaker 1: love on my sweater, you know, like that kind of

1189
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 1: stuff like you're cut off, socks are your wrist, things

1190
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 1: like it's so indie and so like not in the

1191
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 1: real world, you know, so like art star And I

1192
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: remember being on stage and one of those shows and

1193
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: just seeing the like masking tape peeling off of me,

1194
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 1: like there, this is terrible. The women were the worst,

1195
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: which was heartbreaking. I was like bawling on stage and

1196
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:14,800
Speaker 1: they're calling me every worst word, and we just powered

1197
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 1: through and it was the best experience you could ever

1198
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 1: have as a band, at least for us. We were

1199
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: like nuh and they were right. We were not good enough,

1200
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 1: and even though they were just being loyal to Billy Talent,

1201
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:34,639
Speaker 1: but we learned at that point they're the energy from

1202
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 1: the stage will always be more than the energy from

1203
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: the crowd. It doesn't matter how big the crowd. That

1204
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 1: we reversed it um and then we made we came

1205
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 1: off that tour and then we made the album Live

1206
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 1: It Out, which is just blistering like rock rous, you know,

1207
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 1: because we needed the armor and that was the other

1208
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: kind of concept that came out of that was like

1209
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 1: songs as Armor UM, which I still use because it's

1210
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: like I'm going to need that, you know, to cope now.

1211
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 1: That record, you know, end up having a lot of success,

1212
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:16,440
Speaker 1: certainly in Canada. So you know, one of the parallel

1213
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 1: stories in metrics careers. It's always been independent, but at

1214
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 1: that time, were you independent by choice or independent because

1215
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 1: none of the big people wanted to invest in you? Well,

1216
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 1: we it's and in fact, that was when we were

1217
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 1: with um Last Gang, so you know, and we in

1218
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 1: those early days is like the license with UM Ever Loving,

1219
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:42,639
Speaker 1: which was you know, uh, Mike Andrews and Anti Factor

1220
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: and the um Last Gang. I mean Chris Taylor, that

1221
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 1: was amazing. He started this label basically to put out

1222
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 1: metric Um because yeah, we you know, the combination of

1223
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 1: shared disdain I think of for me, I just these

1224
01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 1: guys in the music industry. I was like no, and

1225
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 1: I think it's better now. But you know, they being

1226
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:05,639
Speaker 1: told like, yeah, you could be the next Macy Gray

1227
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm just like, this is this is never

1228
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 1: gonna work, um, but what but if we do it ourselves,

1229
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: it's going to work and we had that confidence, but

1230
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 1: we definitely had help. I mean Chris Taylor put out

1231
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 1: that record, he helped us get I think he played

1232
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 1: us for ben Um of Billy Talent and Death from

1233
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,679
Speaker 1: Above was also on his label. That was the first

1234
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:28,639
Speaker 1: time we were in a tour bus was with those guys,

1235
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 1: So you know, it was it was a short lived

1236
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: connection and we also always contractually protected our independence. But um,

1237
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:40,679
Speaker 1: at that time, I didn't feel any sense of like,

1238
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 1: oh I wish I was on a major label or anything.

1239
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: I think I think we really let that go after

1240
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 1: England and to this date have major labels sniffed around. Yeah,

1241
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:54,559
Speaker 1: like we had you know, it's a now it's actually

1242
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 1: kind of a mutual respect vibe. I feel like we've

1243
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 1: had great chats with Jimmy Ivan and Tom Wally and

1244
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 1: all those guys are like, you know, it's always a

1245
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 1: funny thing where I like, I think Jimmy Ivan I

1246
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:05,640
Speaker 1: was like, you know, well, if you ever want to

1247
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: work in her scope, I was like totally. You know, um,

1248
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 1: like around Fantasies, which was our most mainstream success, I suppose. Um,

1249
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 1: we went in and he wanted to meet with us,

1250
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 1: and you know, he's like thrown around like the Farrell

1251
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: remix idea, like you know, the stuff that you should do.

1252
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:25,600
Speaker 1: But it's like, you know, I like no doubt as

1253
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 1: much as the next guy. We're not no doubt. We're

1254
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:32,680
Speaker 1: not a package heble entity like that. Um. And contractually

1255
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:34,800
Speaker 1: it's like there is no amount of money the guy

1256
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 1: was going to give me, Like literally there is there was.

1257
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 1: There is no amount of money that would make it

1258
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 1: make sense. Um, which I know sounds extreme, but again

1259
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 1: like kind of you know, the idea of a life philosophy.

1260
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 1: If your life is like you're trying to you're trying

1261
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: to retire, Like if you're trying to like do it

1262
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:55,760
Speaker 1: and then stop doing it, then you might want to

1263
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 1: just sell off anything you can sell off. But if

1264
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 1: your goal is to own it and live it and

1265
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 1: have your own life, it just doesn't make any sense.

1266
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 1: And they could see it and we could see it.

1267
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:10,600
Speaker 1: So later in my career, I actually enjoyed those conversations

1268
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 1: because I can tell, I mean, they're trying their best, right,

1269
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 1: they're doing their thing, and um, I feel like they

1270
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 1: respect that I've done it my way, you know, but

1271
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 1: are you frustrated it all as much successes if you've

1272
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 1: had and the in roads you've made is part of

1273
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 1: you say hey, I want to be bigger and I

1274
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:38,440
Speaker 1: wish I had help well again like philosophy, right, um,

1275
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: we right now it's a it's an interesting time to

1276
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:42,559
Speaker 1: be chatting with you about this because right now we

1277
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 1: feel really happy with thirty Tigers, Like David Mass is

1278
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 1: obviously a mutual friend, like that's your new distributor label

1279
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 1: services company. That's right, and what he's doing and the

1280
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 1: way that they're doing it is kind of the thing

1281
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 1: I feel like we've always been looking for because we're

1282
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,680
Speaker 1: team players, like we love you know, we've always put

1283
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 1: together our own ad hoc teams um and it's just

1284
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 1: always with the music industry the terms of these contracts

1285
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:13,680
Speaker 1: where it's just so unpalatable to us and are the

1286
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 1: way that we run our business and make our work.

1287
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 1: So we'll have to see I'd love to like do

1288
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 1: a check in on this how it plays out with

1289
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:24,879
Speaker 1: thirty Tigers, because for this album so far, the setup

1290
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:27,759
Speaker 1: and we just all comes crashing. Just got to number

1291
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 1: two in Canada, hopefully next week before the release we'll

1292
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:33,719
Speaker 1: get to number one. The it feels like we got

1293
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 1: we got people, but they're not telling us what to do.

1294
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 1: They're telling their they're facilitating what we want to do,

1295
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 1: So you know, I the question of being bigger is like,

1296
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 1: it's it's funny to be right now, because I feel

1297
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: like with the data obsession that we're all, it seems

1298
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: like it's a global addiction now in all in all ways,

1299
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 1: everyone's just like tallying up everything, right, Like there's a

1300
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 1: talker mom who's tallying up how many likes she got

1301
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 1: on like her cupcake photo. And you know, every artist

1302
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:09,959
Speaker 1: is tallying up how many streams they have on Spotify

1303
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: and the other platforms. And it's like it's fun and

1304
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 1: it's addictive and it's all these things. But it's like,

1305
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,120
Speaker 1: I really think we're in need of a reckoning of

1306
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 1: like what are we actually tallying here? And it's cool, like,

1307
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 1: but recognizing on Spotify, you're you're tallying how many times

1308
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:28,160
Speaker 1: your song has been listened to on Spotify. This is

1309
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 1: from someone who's added We've added a million and a

1310
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 1: half listeners in I think less than a year. So

1311
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:35,880
Speaker 1: I'm super happy it's going great, But I'm not under

1312
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 1: the illusion that that data is the tally of all

1313
01:17:40,479 --> 01:17:43,840
Speaker 1: things of value in my existence. You know, TikTok. We're

1314
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 1: into it. It's cool, We're like coming up with stuff

1315
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 1: to do. We're enjoying it. You know. I'd rather do

1316
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 1: that than go sit in some guy's office or try

1317
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 1: to please the head of a record company school. If

1318
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:55,760
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it anymore, I won't do it. Um.

1319
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:58,599
Speaker 1: But again, it's like this like sort of frothing at

1320
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 1: the mouth, sorry, of like casino atmosphere around you know,

1321
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 1: success in these measurements that I guess I have chosen

1322
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 1: a different way of looking at success. How do you

1323
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 1: look at it? Well? Mental health, physical health, love, health

1324
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:20,599
Speaker 1: of the band, quality of the work. So from from

1325
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:24,120
Speaker 1: our perspective again, how can you evaluate quality in the world?

1326
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 1: As we know, lots of things are huge, lots of

1327
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 1: things sucked, you know, chicken McNuggets, they're everywhere. I don't

1328
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's under any illusion of a Michelin star. Right.

1329
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:38,519
Speaker 1: So for me, for our values and what we want

1330
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:41,639
Speaker 1: to accomplish every day of my life is one step

1331
01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 1: closer to the artists that I want to be. The

1332
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 1: work on form and terra the band is playing better

1333
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,599
Speaker 1: than we've ever played. We're doing what you know, to

1334
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: the extent that anybody cares. I hope they do. Uh

1335
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: And from all you know measures that we're seeing, it

1336
01:18:56,439 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 1: seems like they do. But that's that means things are

1337
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:05,360
Speaker 1: working out, you know, um, and there's like love in

1338
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,759
Speaker 1: my life with my band and my and my family,

1339
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:13,520
Speaker 1: and like it's not all being destroyed by this obsession,

1340
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, this idea of like, you know, fame at

1341
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 1: all costs. I feel like the last standing like lover

1342
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 1: of privacy or something. When people just rattle off all

1343
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:26,479
Speaker 1: these things about TikTok, it's like you want to be this,

1344
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:29,040
Speaker 1: you want to be that. It's like I don't know, maybe,

1345
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 1: like I get that somebody wants to be that, but

1346
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 1: not if you're someone who loves like being in the

1347
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:36,880
Speaker 1: woods and going on a hike. Like, yeah, maybe you

1348
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 1: want to do some cool shot on tip talking, that's

1349
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 1: not your whole purpose, right, Like, not everyone wants to

1350
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 1: be the most famous person ever. Okay, although I've yet

1351
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:51,000
Speaker 1: to meet in artist who didn't want more people to

1352
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 1: listen to their music or be exposed to their work. Yeah,

1353
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:57,640
Speaker 1: I mean that would be completely disingenuous to say like,

1354
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 1: of course you want people to hear it, but you know,

1355
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 1: I guess I just it's not about being nostalgic, But

1356
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:08,799
Speaker 1: it's more about like reminding people that that feeling before

1357
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 1: we were all in this kind of colosseum of like

1358
01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:16,479
Speaker 1: data and living online where everyone's looking at everyone's everything.

1359
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: Like you could be a really cool band and you

1360
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:25,519
Speaker 1: don't have to be like constantly reminded that someone's playing

1361
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:27,680
Speaker 1: an arena. It doesn't matter. Sometimes you want to go

1362
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:30,639
Speaker 1: to an arena it's really fun. Go see a huge band,

1363
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,639
Speaker 1: it's great. Sometimes you want to see an art rock

1364
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:36,320
Speaker 1: band like Metric do something really cool in a theater

1365
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 1: like that. That's that's more the spirit of it. It's like,

1366
01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 1: imagine if your favorite restaurant. You know, when you go

1367
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:45,840
Speaker 1: to your favorite restaurant that you love and the chef

1368
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: is so good, and it's like hard to get a

1369
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:49,640
Speaker 1: reso because it's so awesome. You don't go and have

1370
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 1: that meal and think this is amazing. But I wish

1371
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:55,679
Speaker 1: that they had like seventy five franchises. It just doesn't

1372
01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:57,639
Speaker 1: work like that, you know. So I think it's more

1373
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 1: my state of mind is like if it can grow

1374
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:05,280
Speaker 1: and be what it is. Those are the terms. You know,

1375
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: if it can if it can be that the mainstream

1376
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 1: comes to us, which has been the case to a

1377
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:14,680
Speaker 1: large degree, then I'm down. We're We're totally cool to

1378
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:19,800
Speaker 1: you know, everyone's welcome. But the singular quest of just

1379
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:22,600
Speaker 1: more and more people and more and more numbers, that

1380
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 1: just doesn't sound like a good life or even a

1381
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:27,760
Speaker 1: good party. Like I don't know, there's you want to

1382
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 1: be in an audience that knows why they're there. Um,

1383
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 1: And I'm sure like my whole team has a different

1384
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 1: agenda in terms of, yeah, let's just get as many

1385
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:40,680
Speaker 1: people as possible, But it's not really what drives me. Now,

1386
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 1: this is a business where you really can't predict the future. Um,

1387
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:49,640
Speaker 1: being like yours has a certain number of fans. But

1388
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 1: in the back of your mind you're saying, well, you know,

1389
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 1: if we don't interact, to be, if we don't interact

1390
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 1: with our fans or they don't like our record, they

1391
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:01,760
Speaker 1: may not buy our tickets and the whole thing could

1392
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:05,639
Speaker 1: fall apart. Yeah, is that in the back of your mind,

1393
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:07,519
Speaker 1: Or you say I'm gonna do what I want to do,

1394
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:13,720
Speaker 1: the chips will fall where they may. I mean I

1395
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,840
Speaker 1: gotta say it's the latter, Like we're you know, we're

1396
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:19,960
Speaker 1: so hard working, we're so driven, we're down, we're like

1397
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:24,280
Speaker 1: doing all this stuff. But if if there, if the

1398
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:27,040
Speaker 1: arc is the arc, and it changes so far it's

1399
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 1: only grown consistently and beautifully blossomed throughout my life. And

1400
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:37,679
Speaker 1: if at some point it's like we fall off a cliff,

1401
01:22:37,720 --> 01:22:40,840
Speaker 1: then I guess we'll be like, well, that happened. But

1402
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:43,400
Speaker 1: you know, I guess this is sort of speaking to

1403
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:46,840
Speaker 1: the anxiety piece too. I mean, it's just like if

1404
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:50,240
Speaker 1: it all falls away, then I guess I'll do I'll

1405
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 1: deal with that at the time. But in the meantime,

1406
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:57,160
Speaker 1: it's like focusing on all the beautiful artwork, but obviously

1407
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 1: the music first, but then all you know, all the

1408
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:01,759
Speaker 1: beautiful artwork, getting all these things, going, getting the stage

1409
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,160
Speaker 1: and going taking care of all like being out there

1410
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: on all the platforms do and all this stuff. It's

1411
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 1: like a dance, right and like whatever is gonna happen

1412
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:12,800
Speaker 1: is gonna happen. And knowing me and Jimmy, we will

1413
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 1: one keep going. We own a beautiful studio, the band

1414
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 1: is great, and I just I feel like my role

1415
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 1: right now is to put a little bit of like

1416
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:26,879
Speaker 1: like mellow confidence. And some people are just like guys,

1417
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:30,719
Speaker 1: what you have might be pretty good, you know, including

1418
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,800
Speaker 1: in our audience. Like I feel like people feel so inadequate.

1419
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 1: It's like hellish. Everything you look at is somebody just

1420
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:40,200
Speaker 1: having more of whatever you're supposed to have than you.

1421
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 1: It's like how how are people supposed to function? There's

1422
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 1: got to be a place of like, damn, this is

1423
01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 1: actually pretty good, you know, like let's enjoy this. I

1424
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 1: feel like that's going to be my vibe on this cycle.

1425
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 1: I hope I can keep it up. Okay. You know,

1426
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:57,599
Speaker 1: I grew up in the era where the Vietnam War

1427
01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:00,639
Speaker 1: and people went to Canada to avoid the draft, having

1428
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:03,240
Speaker 1: me into Canada's zillion times. Now, I would go to

1429
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:06,600
Speaker 1: Canada in a minute. Canada's got a lot of advantages

1430
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 1: over the US, like a social safety net. But certainly

1431
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 1: when I grew up, you know, you could have a

1432
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 1: minimum wage job and pay all your bills. That is

1433
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:20,200
Speaker 1: not the case now. So to what degree are you

1434
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 1: looking forward monetarially? Are you consciously saving money? Do you

1435
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:27,519
Speaker 1: think about money at all? Do you think about money

1436
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 1: when you spend? How does that factor in. Yeah, I

1437
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 1: mean I think about money all the time. Like everyone else.

1438
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,559
Speaker 1: We deal, you have to deal. Um, I run a company,

1439
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:41,120
Speaker 1: so a lot of my consideration is recognizing that I

1440
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 1: need to keep everybody on salary and I need to

1441
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:47,040
Speaker 1: keep you know, this studio running, and um, you know,

1442
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,679
Speaker 1: I try not to focus too much on the fact

1443
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:52,800
Speaker 1: like when I'm writing where you're like, you know it

1444
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 1: really is. It is such an amazing and ridiculous craft

1445
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 1: and thing to dedicate your life to, like, you know, help,

1446
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:05,519
Speaker 1: I'm alive, tremble, you know, those couple of chords and

1447
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 1: that thing. I mean, that's that's of you know, of

1448
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:13,559
Speaker 1: a lot of equipment and various things. That's like the

1449
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:17,759
Speaker 1: songs have paid for the life. The songs I write

1450
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: have paid for my life. So you know, we're pragmatic

1451
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:24,280
Speaker 1: in terms of our business. We have a whole team.

1452
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:27,439
Speaker 1: We're like keeping this thing afloat um. But on a

1453
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:31,960
Speaker 1: personal level, like you know, I just feel like, you don't,

1454
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the stupid kill the Golden goose, whatever,

1455
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 1: I don't. I just want to be capable of writing.

1456
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: And you know, I have a place in the woods

1457
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:45,600
Speaker 1: which had already happened with covid where it was. I

1458
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 1: got it in case everything went to hell. It did,

1459
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 1: I went there. It was great. If if I have

1460
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 1: to shrink my life down, it will still be so

1461
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 1: such a rich life with you know, my own water

1462
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 1: and a piano on each floor. So that's kind of

1463
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:08,559
Speaker 1: how I gauge the financial side. I'm I'm more into, like,

1464
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 1: you know, pouring money into making the metric shows great,

1465
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:19,599
Speaker 1: you know, continuing to sort of defy gravity in our

1466
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:24,599
Speaker 1: weird way, then then being too worried. But um, professionally

1467
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:28,000
Speaker 1: we're yeah, we're very We're practical. We're practical. How many

1468
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 1: people are on the payroll? Uh, well, the band's bent

1469
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:36,200
Speaker 1: on salary for I mean over a decade um. And

1470
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 1: then we have all our services, Um, so you know,

1471
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:47,719
Speaker 1: business manager, a couple of lawyers, accountant obviously, our manager, obviously,

1472
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 1: our agents. UM. I have a person that is essential

1473
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:55,840
Speaker 1: to my health and happiness who I do all the

1474
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:58,920
Speaker 1: social media stuff with. We have a great time together. Um,

1475
01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:02,800
Speaker 1: she's on side Lary. Um. We have a day to

1476
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:06,639
Speaker 1: day person that we're like, nowhere will we go without him.

1477
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 1: We just switched a new management and we're like, this

1478
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 1: guy is coming with us. So he's on as well. Um,

1479
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: then we have a day to day guy in in

1480
01:27:15,439 --> 01:27:19,160
Speaker 1: Toronto as well, so you know, ten or fifth something

1481
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:21,400
Speaker 1: like that. I can't. I can't do math, you know that, Bob.

1482
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 1: But some people, how did you hook up with Matt

1483
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:30,280
Speaker 1: Drulin and how did that end up helping your career? Um?

1484
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:32,240
Speaker 1: That was just I have a big grin when you

1485
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:35,120
Speaker 1: say his name, because foot a legend and you know

1486
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:39,799
Speaker 1: so great. Um, he that I can't. I don't remember

1487
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,720
Speaker 1: how we met exactly, but the visual I have is

1488
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 1: when we when we had left New York in two

1489
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:49,880
Speaker 1: thousand one. Um, God, these timelines are so crazy, but

1490
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:51,719
Speaker 1: I guess it must have been that we still had

1491
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 1: Jimmy still got to rent that place later, but all

1492
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:58,720
Speaker 1: the way into like two thousand four. So around two

1493
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 1: thousand four, Um, we met him and we was this

1494
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:06,519
Speaker 1: place was on above a bank, and so there was

1495
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 1: this huge safe and Matt just came in and sat

1496
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 1: cross legged on the safe and you know, proceeded to

1497
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:16,280
Speaker 1: make us so much money over the next decade. It

1498
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:19,800
Speaker 1: was always just such a classic image. But he is

1499
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 1: a He ran DKD for a while. His whole resume

1500
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 1: is pretty impressive. But he was always really interested in tech.

1501
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:31,439
Speaker 1: He was always interested in being disruptive too. And you know,

1502
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:34,519
Speaker 1: not everyone loved this about his work in the music industry.

1503
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 1: He's now left the music industry, so he claims, um,

1504
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 1: but he was really you know, like me, just felt

1505
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 1: that there were inherent systemic flaws and just the boiler

1506
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:49,800
Speaker 1: plate contract that is presented as a premise for a

1507
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:52,200
Speaker 1: career in music. He was just right there with me

1508
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:55,240
Speaker 1: of like this is a bad business model and no

1509
01:28:55,280 --> 01:28:57,760
Speaker 1: one should ever sign this. And he was like, I'm

1510
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 1: going to go over every single thing with a fine tooth, Coe,

1511
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:01,640
Speaker 1: and we're going to figure out a way to do

1512
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 1: things differently. And thanks to him for Fantasies, which was

1513
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:10,400
Speaker 1: the album after Live It Out. Uh, we owned everything,

1514
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:14,719
Speaker 1: put it out ourselves and that album performed the best.

1515
01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:18,040
Speaker 1: We did really well at radio in UM in the

1516
01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:20,840
Speaker 1: U s. Which is like unheard of. He's got all

1517
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:23,240
Speaker 1: the stats of like no one's ever done without a

1518
01:29:23,320 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 1: label or whatever. He loves like the sizzle, real vibe,

1519
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:31,800
Speaker 1: um and we just we ended up having such incredible

1520
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 1: uh uh success in that period of time. And simultaneously

1521
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:40,240
Speaker 1: the world was changing towards tech. He's was close friends

1522
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:42,880
Speaker 1: and still is with Shawn Parker. So we got to

1523
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 1: have like, you know, an inside view, which is not

1524
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:52,680
Speaker 1: for the faint of heart. UM into tech bro existence

1525
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:56,760
Speaker 1: and some friendships there, you know. He hilariously to me.

1526
01:29:57,080 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 1: We were playing UM probably around two as in eleven

1527
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:06,479
Speaker 1: something like that. Uh, We're playing this thing in New

1528
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:09,720
Speaker 1: York where inexplicably Patti Smith was opening for us. It

1529
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:14,639
Speaker 1: was this thing at Milk Studios, and uh so it's

1530
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:18,559
Speaker 1: just like already kind of a funny memory standing side

1531
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:20,120
Speaker 1: stage with Patty is about to go out and she's

1532
01:30:20,160 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 1: just like, God, it sounds like hell out there, and

1533
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:24,960
Speaker 1: like it's gonna be okay. UM. And then and then

1534
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:30,080
Speaker 1: Matt Brook brought Daniel Eck obviously he started Spotify backstage,

1535
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:32,880
Speaker 1: and he was like, guys, this Daniel Alex Spotify. You know,

1536
01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:34,519
Speaker 1: she really meet him. We're like, what's that man? Nice

1537
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:37,559
Speaker 1: to meet you, you know, and we're not the We're

1538
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:40,599
Speaker 1: Matt didn't like lead us. He wasn't like you gotta

1539
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:43,040
Speaker 1: like kiss this guy's ass, or this is your future

1540
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 1: or anything like that. He just was in. He was

1541
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:48,840
Speaker 1: aware that the world was going where it was going,

1542
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:53,519
Speaker 1: and UM did his best to help us by making

1543
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:57,320
Speaker 1: sure that we owned everything. And then well, you know,

1544
01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:00,560
Speaker 1: we parted ways totally amicably. UM right before the pandemic.

1545
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:04,559
Speaker 1: UM we got new management, and you know, it was

1546
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:09,600
Speaker 1: a lot to take apart because he had the energy

1547
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:12,599
Speaker 1: to be someone who would put together individual record deals

1548
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:15,920
Speaker 1: in every territory, you know, so there's never a cohesive thing.

1549
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:18,959
Speaker 1: He would just you know, out of Montreal like a lunatic.

1550
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:21,800
Speaker 1: He'd like run this thing. So you know, now that

1551
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:26,400
Speaker 1: we have more uh sane management, they're like, Okay, we're

1552
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:29,080
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna streamline this a bit. We're going to

1553
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 1: and luckily that's why thirty Tigers is now in the picture.

1554
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:35,040
Speaker 1: But other than having to kind of get it straight,

1555
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:38,679
Speaker 1: he was just like being handed our own the keys

1556
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:41,680
Speaker 1: to our own existence because we own our material and

1557
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 1: now we can do all this cool stuff. And fascinatingly,

1558
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:48,439
Speaker 1: Jimmy said, that didn't ultimately that was your one big

1559
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:54,000
Speaker 1: break that really ultimately didn't pay any dividend. UM. That

1560
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 1: was we were approached by Howard Shore, who I stayed

1561
01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 1: friends with. UM. We then did the Cronenberg film together

1562
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:04,120
Speaker 1: after that, but yeah, they needed UM someone to do

1563
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:06,559
Speaker 1: the theme song. He was obviously doing the score, so

1564
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:10,800
Speaker 1: we clicked. We went out to his place in Tuxedo Park, Um,

1565
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:13,400
Speaker 1: which was really cool. Is like see like where he

1566
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 1: wrote all the Lord of the Ring stuff and the

1567
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 1: Hobbit hole and all this stuff. Um, and you know,

1568
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:23,519
Speaker 1: fascinatingly to me, he took I didn't know it's going

1569
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:25,800
Speaker 1: to work like this, but he took my melodies and

1570
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:29,559
Speaker 1: then wrote the The themes of the score were actually

1571
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:33,679
Speaker 1: derived from that song, which was really cool. Um, Jimmy

1572
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 1: struck up a friendship with Pattinson and it was it

1573
01:32:37,160 --> 01:32:40,320
Speaker 1: was a great moment, you know, some hilarious red carpet moments.

1574
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:43,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, to Jimmy's point, I mean, like so many things,

1575
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:46,439
Speaker 1: and I think it's it's actually to our benefit, but

1576
01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:48,640
Speaker 1: I guess we'll never know. It feels like it just

1577
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:52,479
Speaker 1: added to the body of work, you know, and we

1578
01:32:52,479 --> 01:32:54,479
Speaker 1: would play, we know, did lots of Late Night with

1579
01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:57,240
Speaker 1: the piano and the string section doing that song. You know,

1580
01:32:57,320 --> 01:32:59,920
Speaker 1: but we were doing Late Night already, Like it kind

1581
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:03,160
Speaker 1: of just was another thing that we did that kept

1582
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:06,320
Speaker 1: it groovy and we kept on going. Um, but it

1583
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:09,559
Speaker 1: it did seem in retrospect, It's true, it's like that

1584
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:11,519
Speaker 1: seems like that should shoot you out of a cannon.

1585
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 1: But you know, the song is playing at the credits,

1586
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:23,040
Speaker 1: everyone's walking out. What are you gonna do? Is there

1587
01:33:23,080 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 1: anything that's happened in your career that really did push

1588
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:29,960
Speaker 1: everything forward sort of a changing moment, or has just

1589
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:35,320
Speaker 1: been a slow evolution? I mean, I think it's unless

1590
01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:39,280
Speaker 1: it's I suppose we'd have to ask ourselves what how

1591
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:43,080
Speaker 1: we're measuring that, because I'm sure if we look at

1592
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:46,479
Speaker 1: the data there's bumps, you know, we can see like

1593
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:49,439
Speaker 1: that the video for Risk, you know, did so well

1594
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:53,280
Speaker 1: on YouTube. I'm sure there's something similar like that that

1595
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:58,120
Speaker 1: we could look at objectively. Um. But to me, the

1596
01:33:58,200 --> 01:34:02,559
Speaker 1: things that have meant the most have a negligible effect,

1597
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, obviously like working with Lou, my friendship with Wilner,

1598
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 1: all all that stuff that is like the basis of

1599
01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:13,720
Speaker 1: my craft and you know, identity and sense of like,

1600
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, now it's getting good. I have no idea

1601
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 1: if that's served us in any sort of verifiable way.

1602
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:26,160
Speaker 1: So how did you meet Lou reed Um? That was

1603
01:34:27,080 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 1: through Haw Wilner, who, as as I recall, Kevin Drew

1604
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 1: and Brendan Canning from Broken social scene. My pals from

1605
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:40,559
Speaker 1: here in Toronto. They were going to meet how about

1606
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:45,960
Speaker 1: doing this Neil Young benefit in Vancouver, and they were

1607
01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:48,360
Speaker 1: in New York and they went to Howe's studio, which

1608
01:34:48,400 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 1: is like a hilarious room full of his Like, sadly,

1609
01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 1: How's not with us anymore. I just got to put

1610
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:56,599
Speaker 1: that out there ahead of the how did the gate

1611
01:34:56,680 --> 01:34:58,760
Speaker 1: because I feel like he's still like one of the

1612
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:03,080
Speaker 1: casualties of co bit unfortunate life. That's right, Um, I

1613
01:35:03,120 --> 01:35:05,160
Speaker 1: did really just feel like he was still alive. That

1614
01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 1: was a very weird feeling. Okay, So Kevin Brendan, they

1615
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:14,559
Speaker 1: go to meet will Nor to talk about this thing.

1616
01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:16,720
Speaker 1: And the first thing he does, you know, in this

1617
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:19,200
Speaker 1: cramped room with his speakers and all his like puppets

1618
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:23,200
Speaker 1: and all this crazy like collectibles, Will there's like, you

1619
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 1: gotta watch this film, and you know, they think they're

1620
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:27,479
Speaker 1: just gonna have a chat with this guy, and he

1621
01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:31,320
Speaker 1: sits them down and makes them watch the Escalator over

1622
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:35,599
Speaker 1: the Hill documentary, which is of course the making of

1623
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:39,120
Speaker 1: Carla Blaze album that is my father's lyrics that he

1624
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 1: was writing in New Delhi when they had me and

1625
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:46,760
Speaker 1: Kevin is just like Okay, what's going on? Like that's

1626
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 1: my best friend from high school? Like she how is that?

1627
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:52,840
Speaker 1: What's happening right now? How do you have this? Also,

1628
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:56,559
Speaker 1: it's very rare, hard to find and will and there's like,

1629
01:35:56,560 --> 01:35:59,559
Speaker 1: oh no way, um, that's great. Well, you know Lou

1630
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:02,960
Speaker 1: and I we we love Emily solo record. We play

1631
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:04,960
Speaker 1: it on our radio show. They had the show on

1632
01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:10,439
Speaker 1: Serious um and they were best friends obviously, and so

1633
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:14,120
Speaker 1: Kevin was just like, this is too much. I gotta

1634
01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:19,200
Speaker 1: I gotta get him on this Vancouver show. Um. And

1635
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:21,439
Speaker 1: it was a really busy time and he actually makes

1636
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:24,599
Speaker 1: fun of me because it was not easy, like I

1637
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:26,720
Speaker 1: wasn't like, oh my gosh, I'm so lucky. Like I

1638
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:29,760
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, like Vancouver, I don't know,

1639
01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 1: maybe not like there's a lot going on. I'm living

1640
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:35,200
Speaker 1: in New York. I'm like, I don't feel like getting

1641
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:40,759
Speaker 1: on a plane. So he persuaded me, and thankfully because

1642
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:44,519
Speaker 1: then you know, I meet Lou and the first thing

1643
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 1: he says to me is Emily, ay, and it would

1644
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:50,880
Speaker 1: you rather be the Beatles or the Rolling Stoves? Isn't

1645
01:36:50,880 --> 01:36:54,800
Speaker 1: that the best? Which maybe your listeners don't know, is

1646
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:58,080
Speaker 1: a line from our song Gimme Sympathy. But and you know,

1647
01:36:58,160 --> 01:36:59,479
Speaker 1: this is what I'm talking about when I say like

1648
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 1: we got get away from this data. There's no data

1649
01:37:02,280 --> 01:37:05,360
Speaker 1: collection for that. I can't. There's no spike in, you know,

1650
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:12,439
Speaker 1: in the algorithm. It's like, that's the best thing ever period.

1651
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:16,320
Speaker 1: Um struck up a friendship Lori's there as well as

1652
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:22,040
Speaker 1: she's amazing Um of course, and he then both of

1653
01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:24,960
Speaker 1: them invited me to perform at this amazing thing they

1654
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:29,520
Speaker 1: did at UM Sydney Opera House. Uh they did a

1655
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:33,840
Speaker 1: whole curated festival of music and oh, man, Bob, I

1656
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:37,240
Speaker 1: feel like I'm gonna cry. He uh Blue and I

1657
01:37:37,280 --> 01:37:49,880
Speaker 1: did Perfect Day together and uh yeah, and then we

1658
01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:54,840
Speaker 1: just stayed friends. Like I did a hilarious um Shell

1659
01:37:54,960 --> 01:37:58,719
Speaker 1: Silverstein thing with him in Central Park. It's like another

1660
01:37:58,760 --> 01:38:02,160
Speaker 1: Willner production, you know, always like total Muppet show bringing

1661
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:06,080
Speaker 1: together all these people. And Um, I was lose straight man,

1662
01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:09,320
Speaker 1: like I'm playing piano and he's just like ripping into Bloomberg.

1663
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:17,320
Speaker 1: It's the best. It's the best. And after he passed Um,

1664
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:19,280
Speaker 1: you know, of course we did the song together as well,

1665
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:23,160
Speaker 1: you know, Electric Lady. He came in and sang on Wanderlust,

1666
01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:29,200
Speaker 1: which is on UM Synthetica. But uh, but after he passed,

1667
01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:32,200
Speaker 1: like you know, Wilner and I then stayed in touch too,

1668
01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:36,120
Speaker 1: and um, I came and did a tribute to lou

1669
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:39,400
Speaker 1: in the City and then Will nor would would keep me,

1670
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:42,599
Speaker 1: keep me in the loop on things like you know

1671
01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:46,639
Speaker 1: the amazing t Rex covers album, uh that I did

1672
01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:52,160
Speaker 1: with them Ballrooms Ballrooms of Mars was my song, this

1673
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 1: crazy line up like Bono in the Edge and all

1674
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:59,479
Speaker 1: these guys are on that record. And then, um, I

1675
01:38:59,479 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 1: feel like I'm us now telling the story of the

1676
01:39:01,439 --> 01:39:03,479
Speaker 1: death of these two best friends and it's making me

1677
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:09,680
Speaker 1: really sad. But then you know, Sheila managed to you know,

1678
01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:14,040
Speaker 1: a year after we lost I guess two years after

1679
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:16,519
Speaker 1: we lost well there did the memorial in New York

1680
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:20,880
Speaker 1: and Kevin and I played, um, only Love Will Break

1681
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:26,479
Speaker 1: Your Heart and got to meet Bono in the Edge

1682
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:30,559
Speaker 1: and how I have a really ridiculous picture of as

1683
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:32,760
Speaker 1: you know, we're walking in for sound check and there's

1684
01:39:32,840 --> 01:39:36,760
Speaker 1: everybody's names with their COVID tests and it's like Kevin Drew,

1685
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: Emily Haynes, like the Edge, Tom Waits, Bono, It's like

1686
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:48,880
Speaker 1: again immeasurable absurdest photography. Um that is I don't even

1687
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:50,479
Speaker 1: know if you can call that a high point, but

1688
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:56,200
Speaker 1: it's a something of the wildness of life, but legendary

1689
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:59,760
Speaker 1: humans that I got to cross paths with. So now

1690
01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:01,360
Speaker 1: what am I going to do? Now am I going

1691
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:04,160
Speaker 1: to meet? Oh? There's always something. It's just like, you know,

1692
01:40:04,200 --> 01:40:07,479
Speaker 1: remember being in the Rose Bowl seeing the stones, and

1693
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:10,400
Speaker 1: I have at all access past the rolling stones, so well,

1694
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:13,599
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't get any better than that walking on

1695
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:17,639
Speaker 1: the stage. But you're a woman in a man's world.

1696
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:24,040
Speaker 1: So what's that been like? Uh? Well, I think I

1697
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:27,840
Speaker 1: learned from Carla Blay by example, which again was a

1698
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:29,600
Speaker 1: little bit like finding out later that we didn't have

1699
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:32,760
Speaker 1: any money because I didn't understand that. Um, as I

1700
01:40:32,800 --> 01:40:35,920
Speaker 1: grew up thinking like that's just what you do. Is

1701
01:40:35,960 --> 01:40:39,240
Speaker 1: what she did, which was you know, start j C

1702
01:40:39,400 --> 01:40:44,599
Speaker 1: o A records, right, all of this insane music, um,

1703
01:40:44,680 --> 01:40:48,080
Speaker 1: all these arrangements which I can still recognize her arrangements

1704
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:52,080
Speaker 1: and in fact that Wilner's memorial they played ah an

1705
01:40:52,160 --> 01:40:56,599
Speaker 1: arrangement of hers, which was stunning. Um, you know, wrote

1706
01:40:56,600 --> 01:41:01,080
Speaker 1: our own arrangements, um, saying this stuff and pulled together,

1707
01:41:01,400 --> 01:41:04,559
Speaker 1: you know, Jack Bruce from Cream, you know, with Paul

1708
01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:09,800
Speaker 1: Haynes from Paul Haynes Um, and I just, you know,

1709
01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:14,240
Speaker 1: always felt like everything she did was unrelated her. She was,

1710
01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:18,559
Speaker 1: of course she's a woman cool, but she always resisted

1711
01:41:18,640 --> 01:41:22,519
Speaker 1: being on the like women in jazz collections, and you

1712
01:41:22,560 --> 01:41:27,080
Speaker 1: know that's sort of pink ghetto thing that can happen

1713
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:30,680
Speaker 1: of Like, you know, I just always saw like I

1714
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:33,760
Speaker 1: want to play on the regulation field, right, So I'm

1715
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:36,320
Speaker 1: I'm a woman in a male dominated industry, so I'll

1716
01:41:36,320 --> 01:41:38,960
Speaker 1: be a woman on that regulation field doing what I

1717
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:41,200
Speaker 1: can do. I haven't done well with the idea I

1718
01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:44,000
Speaker 1: was supposed to go to this other category and have

1719
01:41:44,160 --> 01:41:47,559
Speaker 1: everything be like a disclaimer or a caveat of like

1720
01:41:47,920 --> 01:41:50,920
Speaker 1: female friends at or like you know, And I think

1721
01:41:51,000 --> 01:41:54,040
Speaker 1: some people lean into that because they there is a

1722
01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:58,320
Speaker 1: way I guess that you can maybe garner attention in

1723
01:41:58,360 --> 01:42:01,080
Speaker 1: a way that serves you and works for you, which

1724
01:42:01,120 --> 01:42:04,680
Speaker 1: I totally respect and get. But for me, I've just

1725
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:06,840
Speaker 1: always been like, what now, can we just can you

1726
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:10,040
Speaker 1: just talk to me about like my phrasing on you know,

1727
01:42:10,200 --> 01:42:12,599
Speaker 1: the third line of the second first of track eight

1728
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:15,200
Speaker 1: of my sixth album, You know, I don't. I don't

1729
01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:18,920
Speaker 1: really have like an agenda as a woman other than

1730
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:22,040
Speaker 1: I hope that girls who come to my shows go like,

1731
01:42:22,200 --> 01:42:24,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to do whatever the hell I want. That's

1732
01:42:24,240 --> 01:42:29,240
Speaker 1: basically my message. But okay, that's on your side. You're

1733
01:42:29,240 --> 01:42:33,040
Speaker 1: an attractive woman. Fronts of band has a certain amount

1734
01:42:33,080 --> 01:42:38,960
Speaker 1: of fame. The truth is many men are attracted to that,

1735
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:42,400
Speaker 1: both people in the audience and people who were famous

1736
01:42:42,439 --> 01:42:46,479
Speaker 1: amongst the entire population. So to what degree when someone

1737
01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:49,400
Speaker 1: comes up to talk to you I'm talking about in

1738
01:42:49,439 --> 01:42:52,600
Speaker 1: an insider setting as opposed to just being out with

1739
01:42:52,640 --> 01:42:55,160
Speaker 1: the public, you say, in your back of mind, are

1740
01:42:55,200 --> 01:42:57,280
Speaker 1: they really want to talk to me for what I think?

1741
01:42:58,240 --> 01:43:03,360
Speaker 1: Or are they thinking about me sexually? I mean, that's

1742
01:43:03,400 --> 01:43:06,040
Speaker 1: just a human question that has nothing to do with

1743
01:43:06,240 --> 01:43:08,240
Speaker 1: what I do for a living. I think that's just

1744
01:43:08,360 --> 01:43:13,600
Speaker 1: like and I'm sure there's a male equivalent. So I

1745
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:16,360
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm sure there's a male equivalent in

1746
01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:19,920
Speaker 1: maybe in the fashion makeup world it could be. But

1747
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:24,080
Speaker 1: if you are there, you're one of the few women

1748
01:43:24,360 --> 01:43:28,639
Speaker 1: amongst many men. So it's a little bit different from

1749
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:32,840
Speaker 1: society at large, where it's kind of fifty fifty. Well,

1750
01:43:32,920 --> 01:43:36,160
Speaker 1: to be fair, Jimmy did say to me what she's like,

1751
01:43:36,240 --> 01:43:39,439
Speaker 1: you know, the problem with you is, you know, you

1752
01:43:39,479 --> 01:43:42,639
Speaker 1: don't realize that when you stay at the bar after

1753
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:46,000
Speaker 1: closing till three am, you're the only one who's there

1754
01:43:46,040 --> 01:43:51,720
Speaker 1: to collaborate. I was like, oh, oh, okay, right, So

1755
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:53,400
Speaker 1: I think I am a bit like out of it

1756
01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:56,080
Speaker 1: when it comes to that, But which also works. I mean,

1757
01:43:56,880 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 1: I I like the approach of just ignoring big tree

1758
01:44:00,880 --> 01:44:05,599
Speaker 1: and you know, adulation in equal measure, you know, just

1759
01:44:05,640 --> 01:44:07,240
Speaker 1: ignore it all. Be like, I have no idea you're

1760
01:44:07,280 --> 01:44:11,120
Speaker 1: talking about. So anyway, this is this new guitar. Okay.

1761
01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:15,360
Speaker 1: You know the reality is, and I have personal experience

1762
01:44:15,439 --> 01:44:20,439
Speaker 1: with this. When a woman is extremely attractive, certainly there

1763
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:28,320
Speaker 1: are men who uh observe boundaries. But there are men

1764
01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:31,559
Speaker 1: that might say at three in the morning, oh that's good, okay,

1765
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:34,240
Speaker 1: cleavercia tomorrow morning. And there are other men who might say, hey,

1766
01:44:34,280 --> 01:44:38,040
Speaker 1: you know, let's go up to my room now. And

1767
01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, I wish him well because I'm going to

1768
01:44:40,920 --> 01:44:45,439
Speaker 1: be like, sorry, what now, let me rephrase the question.

1769
01:44:46,520 --> 01:44:49,360
Speaker 1: Have you been in any bad experiences as a result

1770
01:44:49,400 --> 01:44:53,920
Speaker 1: of being a man a woman in a man's world, yes,

1771
01:44:54,600 --> 01:45:00,240
Speaker 1: and how do you eat? How do you handle them?

1772
01:45:00,280 --> 01:45:03,800
Speaker 1: So sadly, And I've spoken a lot of my friends

1773
01:45:03,840 --> 01:45:06,280
Speaker 1: about this, and I think this is a generational shift

1774
01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:13,000
Speaker 1: that is happening. Um. But I have been of the

1775
01:45:13,080 --> 01:45:19,200
Speaker 1: school kind of the logical next progression from my attitude

1776
01:45:19,200 --> 01:45:24,599
Speaker 1: of like, I'm going to pretend that I didn't see

1777
01:45:24,640 --> 01:45:27,120
Speaker 1: you looking at me that way, or treating me that way,

1778
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:31,360
Speaker 1: treating me lesser or um as a result of some

1779
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:35,920
Speaker 1: perception that you have about my gender. I've similarly been

1780
01:45:36,040 --> 01:45:43,639
Speaker 1: very quick to dismiss and minimize and move on from

1781
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:47,880
Speaker 1: all the things that have happened. And it's a choice.

1782
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:50,240
Speaker 1: I didn't really think of it as a choice. And

1783
01:45:50,280 --> 01:45:53,120
Speaker 1: I think probably other women that you've spoken to, um

1784
01:45:53,160 --> 01:45:55,360
Speaker 1: my age are older, we'll we'll tell you the same thing.

1785
01:45:56,080 --> 01:46:00,760
Speaker 1: There's no mechanism for really anything else. It felt at

1786
01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:04,200
Speaker 1: the time, and certainly at this point in my life,

1787
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:13,360
Speaker 1: I feel resilience and I've overcome everything. So having said that,

1788
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:20,360
Speaker 1: I'm very supportive of this next generation of girls who

1789
01:46:21,200 --> 01:46:23,639
Speaker 1: they I mean, things that we don't think would even

1790
01:46:23,680 --> 01:46:27,679
Speaker 1: register with me. They're flagging, and good on them because

1791
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:30,520
Speaker 1: if they have, they have the energy, they have, the

1792
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:35,200
Speaker 1: they have, the social language, and you know a sense

1793
01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:38,880
Speaker 1: of understanding. UM that they can address those things. So

1794
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:41,920
Speaker 1: I think I think if they they should. UM. But

1795
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:45,800
Speaker 1: for me, I've just been like, can we please talk

1796
01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:50,000
Speaker 1: about my music now instead? Oh, I just want to

1797
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:53,080
Speaker 1: clarify when I talk about being on the having experienced

1798
01:46:53,080 --> 01:46:55,400
Speaker 1: with this is with a woman I was involved with,

1799
01:46:55,680 --> 01:46:58,559
Speaker 1: not that I was bad behavior, just men approaching her.

1800
01:46:59,200 --> 01:47:03,200
Speaker 1: But in any event, you know, this is also a

1801
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:07,240
Speaker 1: dicey area. But the reality of biologically women have a

1802
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:11,840
Speaker 1: limited amount of time to have children all certainly they

1803
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:15,120
Speaker 1: can adopt, they can freeze their legs. Do you feel

1804
01:47:15,240 --> 01:47:18,559
Speaker 1: you sacrifice to my knowledge, you don't have any children,

1805
01:47:18,600 --> 01:47:22,120
Speaker 1: you're not married. Is the music more important or did

1806
01:47:22,160 --> 01:47:25,840
Speaker 1: you say I want that but I can't have it.

1807
01:47:25,960 --> 01:47:30,920
Speaker 1: Where do you sit on that? Um? That probably is

1808
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:34,559
Speaker 1: the only question so far that sits on my Michael

1809
01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:38,760
Speaker 1: Andrew's scale of selling my personal life. UM, which is

1810
01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:42,799
Speaker 1: me saying in a hopefully charming way that I'm probably

1811
01:47:42,840 --> 01:47:45,800
Speaker 1: not really going to answer that. UM. I would just

1812
01:47:45,840 --> 01:47:48,960
Speaker 1: say I was married, and I did try to have

1813
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:52,920
Speaker 1: a family, and I am not married and I do

1814
01:47:53,040 --> 01:47:59,960
Speaker 1: not have a family. And leave it probably at that. Okay,

1815
01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:03,200
Speaker 1: let's move on to today. The album is called Forming Terra.

1816
01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:05,720
Speaker 1: For those who've been to Abisa know that form and

1817
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:12,800
Speaker 1: Terra is across the water. And uh so why is

1818
01:48:12,840 --> 01:48:17,519
Speaker 1: this album called Formintara? So it's funny even though we're

1819
01:48:17,560 --> 01:48:19,720
Speaker 1: so early in this album campaign, I already have that

1820
01:48:19,720 --> 01:48:22,120
Speaker 1: little cringe, which you gotta do it right, Like I'm

1821
01:48:22,360 --> 01:48:24,400
Speaker 1: we're promoting the album, but where you hear yourself about

1822
01:48:24,439 --> 01:48:27,200
Speaker 1: to say something you've said before. But it's cool. I

1823
01:48:27,360 --> 01:48:30,599
Speaker 1: just I feel the need to preface that, like it's funny.

1824
01:48:30,600 --> 01:48:32,680
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at it right now, this book in

1825
01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:39,440
Speaker 1: the studio. Okay, So here it is, Uh, we're deep pandemic.

1826
01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:43,479
Speaker 1: And not only are we deep pandemic, we are in

1827
01:48:44,240 --> 01:48:50,360
Speaker 1: a frozen tundra in a rural hamlet and the doom

1828
01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:54,880
Speaker 1: scrolling is completely out of hand and what is on

1829
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:57,800
Speaker 1: the other side of that phone is really dire and disturbing.

1830
01:48:58,520 --> 01:49:05,120
Speaker 1: Friends are dying, um our industry is completely gutted, and

1831
01:49:05,960 --> 01:49:12,280
Speaker 1: predictions for worse are coming in daily. Uh. We're in

1832
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:15,439
Speaker 1: the studio and we were like, we need We're gonna

1833
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:20,000
Speaker 1: need something here because everyone's we're not well and we

1834
01:49:20,120 --> 01:49:22,320
Speaker 1: got the idea to open this book that it's one

1835
01:49:22,360 --> 01:49:24,600
Speaker 1: of those like a thousand Places to Go before you

1836
01:49:24,680 --> 01:49:28,800
Speaker 1: Die book, like dream destination books. They're like, okay, maybe

1837
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:32,240
Speaker 1: we opened this to a page, well, like it'll transport

1838
01:49:32,280 --> 01:49:34,400
Speaker 1: us will get inspired, and we'll just that that's going

1839
01:49:34,439 --> 01:49:38,040
Speaker 1: to make give this day a sense of shape. And

1840
01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:42,519
Speaker 1: we opened the book and it's for me, arra. And

1841
01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:45,200
Speaker 1: originally we thought maybe we'd do a different page every

1842
01:49:45,280 --> 01:49:47,760
Speaker 1: day or something, and it just never left that page.

1843
01:49:48,439 --> 01:49:54,080
Speaker 1: And that day we wrote that song. And I'm not

1844
01:49:54,120 --> 01:49:57,160
Speaker 1: trying to be dramatic, I just I can't. I don't

1845
01:49:57,240 --> 01:50:01,040
Speaker 1: really remember the way that it happened. It really did

1846
01:50:01,160 --> 01:50:05,400
Speaker 1: feel like Jimmy played something, and I went to the

1847
01:50:05,439 --> 01:50:10,439
Speaker 1: piano and played something, and then there was something. And

1848
01:50:10,560 --> 01:50:14,720
Speaker 1: then for the weeks that followed, I just spent all

1849
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:16,600
Speaker 1: this time like when I was walking, when I was

1850
01:50:16,640 --> 01:50:18,599
Speaker 1: in the bath, when I which was basically the two

1851
01:50:18,680 --> 01:50:22,360
Speaker 1: things that I was doing. Um, I I would just

1852
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:27,880
Speaker 1: be kind of tweaking this melody and these words that

1853
01:50:27,960 --> 01:50:32,400
Speaker 1: were essentially what got me to what we were discussing earlier,

1854
01:50:32,439 --> 01:50:36,720
Speaker 1: of like coming to this conclusion of letting go of

1855
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:41,800
Speaker 1: the being unsustainable the level of anxiety that I was

1856
01:50:42,560 --> 01:50:47,640
Speaker 1: trying to contain in my small frame. So the song is,

1857
01:50:47,720 --> 01:50:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, why not just let go? You can't take

1858
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:56,360
Speaker 1: a sober stroll and free my childhood dream. I'm done.

1859
01:50:56,920 --> 01:51:03,360
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't carry all this UM. So then

1860
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:06,519
Speaker 1: that was we're you know, we're very harsh on our work.

1861
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:10,879
Speaker 1: I love it, We're harsh editors. We had other material,

1862
01:51:11,439 --> 01:51:15,880
Speaker 1: we're working away. That song was done and we're progressing,

1863
01:51:15,880 --> 01:51:18,160
Speaker 1: we're continuing, and there was it was not front of

1864
01:51:18,200 --> 01:51:22,800
Speaker 1: mine UM for quite some time. And then as we

1865
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:25,360
Speaker 1: were coming to the kind of end of the process,

1866
01:51:25,439 --> 01:51:28,040
Speaker 1: we realized it was time to sort of reckon with

1867
01:51:28,080 --> 01:51:32,479
Speaker 1: all these different tunes. And sure enough it was so weird,

1868
01:51:32,720 --> 01:51:37,600
Speaker 1: but like independently, everyone had this like epiphany that not

1869
01:51:37,680 --> 01:51:40,559
Speaker 1: only was that the heart of the record, it was

1870
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:47,840
Speaker 1: definitely the title. And Jimmy then being him, was like,

1871
01:51:48,200 --> 01:51:51,919
Speaker 1: I know what we need to do. We need an orchestra.

1872
01:51:52,320 --> 01:51:55,840
Speaker 1: We need to arrive via orchestra and have it carry

1873
01:51:55,920 --> 01:52:00,120
Speaker 1: us through into the next track, which is Enemies of

1874
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:03,519
Speaker 1: the Ocean. And you know, he says stuff like this,

1875
01:52:03,600 --> 01:52:06,400
Speaker 1: I'm like okay, Like I don't know, calls up Tote

1876
01:52:06,439 --> 01:52:08,920
Speaker 1: or Kobakov, who have we worked with before, our Bulgarian

1877
01:52:09,080 --> 01:52:13,519
Speaker 1: composer friend. He writes this piece, it's perfect. Get the

1878
01:52:13,560 --> 01:52:20,000
Speaker 1: Bulgarian art Orchestra uh up and running, and we record

1879
01:52:20,080 --> 01:52:24,240
Speaker 1: it by live cast and it becomes the heart of

1880
01:52:24,240 --> 01:52:27,040
Speaker 1: the record. And then you know, going into artwork meetings

1881
01:52:27,479 --> 01:52:29,960
Speaker 1: and the artwork guy comes bursting in the door and

1882
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:31,439
Speaker 1: it's like, I know what the album is called, and

1883
01:52:31,479 --> 01:52:33,559
Speaker 1: I know what the song. It's like, it's called formIn Tera,

1884
01:52:33,640 --> 01:52:36,160
Speaker 1: and this is the thing. And I'm just like, Okay,

1885
01:52:36,200 --> 01:52:41,280
Speaker 1: this is happening by consensus, um, but like psychic consensus.

1886
01:52:42,439 --> 01:52:44,519
Speaker 1: So have you been to formIn Tera? And do you

1887
01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:48,200
Speaker 1: want to go to form? I have? I have, and

1888
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:51,160
Speaker 1: it's and I and I actually it's funny because now

1889
01:52:51,439 --> 01:52:54,880
Speaker 1: things are open, right, and it's taken on so much

1890
01:52:54,960 --> 01:52:58,200
Speaker 1: significance um and yeah, and we're still at the beginning

1891
01:52:58,240 --> 01:53:00,840
Speaker 1: of the campaign. So I'm like, oh, man, I think

1892
01:53:01,000 --> 01:53:04,720
Speaker 1: I can't go now. Like I think that's too it's

1893
01:53:04,760 --> 01:53:08,040
Speaker 1: too literal. I mean, I need to experience it as

1894
01:53:08,120 --> 01:53:11,120
Speaker 1: this figurative escape, you know. It's like a poor man's

1895
01:53:11,200 --> 01:53:13,960
Speaker 1: vacation was our whole idea, Like none of us can

1896
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:17,439
Speaker 1: go anywhere, you know, and at the best of times,

1897
01:53:17,439 --> 01:53:19,200
Speaker 1: I don't know how many of us are yachting to

1898
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:21,840
Speaker 1: form in terra. But at one point in my life

1899
01:53:21,880 --> 01:53:25,439
Speaker 1: I was um, and so I was just really torn,

1900
01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:27,720
Speaker 1: like what do I do? Because I'm kind of like, man,

1901
01:53:27,760 --> 01:53:30,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind going. We got this promo trip, so

1902
01:53:30,200 --> 01:53:33,080
Speaker 1: we're going to London and Paris Berlin for work. I'm like,

1903
01:53:33,080 --> 01:53:36,280
Speaker 1: maybe I should just go, but I think I've decided,

1904
01:53:37,160 --> 01:53:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, another lockdown. Notwithstanding that I at the end

1905
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:45,799
Speaker 1: would be really nice to just go with the band.

1906
01:53:46,840 --> 01:53:49,280
Speaker 1: You know, maybe by that point the tourism board will

1907
01:53:49,320 --> 01:53:53,000
Speaker 1: really appreciate our work. Actually, I was going to ask

1908
01:53:53,040 --> 01:53:56,679
Speaker 1: you with this, did you ever see the Um Pink

1909
01:53:56,680 --> 01:54:03,880
Speaker 1: Floyd movie? More? No? So, so they made a film

1910
01:54:04,000 --> 01:54:06,880
Speaker 1: and and spend all this time obsessed with Pink Floyd

1911
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:11,479
Speaker 1: best music. They made a film and spent all this

1912
01:54:11,600 --> 01:54:15,000
Speaker 1: time on for Mentara, and people mistook it to be

1913
01:54:15,040 --> 01:54:18,200
Speaker 1: a visa. And then I had like the craziest connection

1914
01:54:18,200 --> 01:54:21,760
Speaker 1: of things where I discovered that that the windmill on

1915
01:54:21,800 --> 01:54:24,960
Speaker 1: the cover of that it's like a concert movie. I

1916
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:28,200
Speaker 1: suppose h is forming Tara. And then I found the

1917
01:54:28,240 --> 01:54:32,040
Speaker 1: club Club to Peak is there where they played this

1918
01:54:32,120 --> 01:54:34,600
Speaker 1: concert in the seventies. I was like, oh man, this

1919
01:54:34,680 --> 01:54:37,640
Speaker 1: is our move, like Metrics going to Farm and Tara,

1920
01:54:37,680 --> 01:54:40,880
Speaker 1: We're gonna play Club to Peak. Of course, no, it's

1921
01:54:40,920 --> 01:54:45,600
Speaker 1: shut down because of like fraudulent tax returns. There's something

1922
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:49,200
Speaker 1: sketchy and it's it's all not happening. But um, I

1923
01:54:49,320 --> 01:54:52,120
Speaker 1: love that there is a connection to it other than

1924
01:54:52,200 --> 01:54:54,400
Speaker 1: just being a place in my mind that I can

1925
01:54:54,440 --> 01:55:00,400
Speaker 1: go Okay. The world is in turmoil, and certainly the

1926
01:55:00,520 --> 01:55:04,440
Speaker 1: United States we have this battle between right and left,

1927
01:55:04,600 --> 01:55:09,400
Speaker 1: and you also have it in Canada. Does music have

1928
01:55:09,560 --> 01:55:12,200
Speaker 1: a place in this, because certainly in the sixties it

1929
01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:16,960
Speaker 1: did relative to national international issues. Doesn't have a place,

1930
01:55:17,640 --> 01:55:21,520
Speaker 1: And do you believe you need to play or want

1931
01:55:21,600 --> 01:55:26,919
Speaker 1: to play a role in that? I think our position

1932
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:38,160
Speaker 1: is like now, Um, it's more about anything that reminds

1933
01:55:38,280 --> 01:55:44,760
Speaker 1: people of the the shaded edges of the sides that

1934
01:55:44,840 --> 01:55:48,280
Speaker 1: they've chosen, of the left and right. So there's a

1935
01:55:48,280 --> 01:55:51,560
Speaker 1: song on the new album called false dichotomy um, which

1936
01:55:51,600 --> 01:55:53,600
Speaker 1: of course is where you're presented with two things as

1937
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:57,920
Speaker 1: though they are mutually exclusive, but they are not. And

1938
01:55:59,680 --> 01:56:02,360
Speaker 1: you know we present you know the idea of there

1939
01:56:02,360 --> 01:56:04,360
Speaker 1: are two ideas in the song. They're presented of like

1940
01:56:04,560 --> 01:56:08,120
Speaker 1: examples of false dichotomy. You know, being who being you're

1941
01:56:08,400 --> 01:56:10,680
Speaker 1: being true to yourself and being successful. That you can't

1942
01:56:10,720 --> 01:56:12,800
Speaker 1: be both of those things. That I would say that's

1943
01:56:12,800 --> 01:56:16,840
Speaker 1: a false dichotomy. And then love and hate I would

1944
01:56:16,840 --> 01:56:20,520
Speaker 1: also say is a false dichotomy. Recognizing the complexities like

1945
01:56:21,000 --> 01:56:24,920
Speaker 1: the lack of nuance in our sort of public discourse,

1946
01:56:25,080 --> 01:56:30,320
Speaker 1: it seems um is part of the problem. And music

1947
01:56:30,600 --> 01:56:36,000
Speaker 1: is nothing but communication. So if you know, without being

1948
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:38,560
Speaker 1: two on the nose either because like nothing can be preachy,

1949
01:56:38,640 --> 01:56:40,960
Speaker 1: Like I don't have any answers. I have questions, but

1950
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:43,440
Speaker 1: I don't have any answers, you know, but let's all

1951
01:56:43,480 --> 01:56:47,560
Speaker 1: just hang out with the questions, like tolerate the lack

1952
01:56:48,080 --> 01:56:52,360
Speaker 1: of resolution if you can the fact of the complexities,

1953
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:56,880
Speaker 1: try to find some commonality with other people. Um, but

1954
01:56:57,000 --> 01:57:03,520
Speaker 1: the entrenched sides is just uh, it's terrible, and it

1955
01:57:03,560 --> 01:57:08,520
Speaker 1: seems to be the inertia is moving everything in those directions,

1956
01:57:08,560 --> 01:57:12,440
Speaker 1: similar to the sense economically that the inertia of richer

1957
01:57:12,480 --> 01:57:14,960
Speaker 1: and richer and poorer and poorer as the middle kind

1958
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:21,320
Speaker 1: of stretches and disappears as a really unnerving and um unpleasant,

1959
01:57:21,680 --> 01:57:24,200
Speaker 1: you know, way to live. We gotta we gotta find

1960
01:57:24,200 --> 01:57:27,880
Speaker 1: another way to communicate. So hopefully, if anything, it's that.

1961
01:57:27,960 --> 01:57:31,400
Speaker 1: But I don't see myself like endorsing a candidate anytime soon.

1962
01:57:32,960 --> 01:57:37,640
Speaker 1: And you have an American passport, you lived in New York,

1963
01:57:38,200 --> 01:57:41,240
Speaker 1: you lived in l A. That's where you had your breakthroughs.

1964
01:57:42,480 --> 01:57:46,400
Speaker 1: What is really the difference between Canada and the United States,

1965
01:57:46,400 --> 01:57:52,560
Speaker 1: and why do you choose to live in Canada? Um?

1966
01:57:52,600 --> 01:57:56,560
Speaker 1: I think that's it an exceedingly case by case and

1967
01:57:56,600 --> 01:58:04,280
Speaker 1: personal uh answer everyone would have. In my case, the UM,

1968
01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:07,160
Speaker 1: the really cool thing that happened is like I mean,

1969
01:58:07,200 --> 01:58:10,240
Speaker 1: I think it's from being born in New Delhi and

1970
01:58:10,360 --> 01:58:13,240
Speaker 1: always feeling like I'm supposed to be somewhere else, right

1971
01:58:13,240 --> 01:58:16,800
Speaker 1: like my parents were on this amazing journey, their romance,

1972
01:58:17,400 --> 01:58:22,080
Speaker 1: their world travels, and that it wasn't so it wasn't

1973
01:58:22,120 --> 01:58:24,120
Speaker 1: supposed to be that like so that I would then

1974
01:58:24,640 --> 01:58:26,720
Speaker 1: stop here supposed to be that I'm supposed to do

1975
01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:32,320
Speaker 1: the same thing. And the really great shift that happened,

1976
01:58:32,320 --> 01:58:36,760
Speaker 1: as I realized, is like, you know, if I'm able,

1977
01:58:36,880 --> 01:58:38,920
Speaker 1: the world is there for me to be in and

1978
01:58:39,320 --> 01:58:43,560
Speaker 1: be a part of, but denying the anchor of my

1979
01:58:44,720 --> 01:58:47,800
Speaker 1: what I honestly feel it almost like a debt to

1980
01:58:47,880 --> 01:58:49,920
Speaker 1: this country. I mean, and it's funny because you don't

1981
01:58:49,920 --> 01:58:52,360
Speaker 1: think of me as an immigrant, but I am. You know,

1982
01:58:52,760 --> 01:58:54,880
Speaker 1: I kind of grown up in some crappy town in

1983
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:57,200
Speaker 1: the United States. So I grew up in a crappy

1984
01:58:57,200 --> 01:59:00,960
Speaker 1: sound in Canada. But like, you know, the arts programs,

1985
01:59:01,440 --> 01:59:04,960
Speaker 1: the teachers, I had, the friends that I made this

1986
01:59:05,160 --> 01:59:08,880
Speaker 1: you know, this country made me. And then I had

1987
01:59:08,920 --> 01:59:12,920
Speaker 1: the extreme privilege of also always carrying an American passport

1988
01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:16,760
Speaker 1: so I could participate in culture uh in that country

1989
01:59:16,760 --> 01:59:20,000
Speaker 1: as well, And like I need those cities, those like

1990
01:59:20,760 --> 01:59:23,080
Speaker 1: particularly New York. New York is like a person in

1991
01:59:23,120 --> 01:59:26,320
Speaker 1: my life. Like I just go by myself with and

1992
01:59:26,440 --> 01:59:29,920
Speaker 1: hang out with my friend New York um all the time.

1993
01:59:30,160 --> 01:59:33,960
Speaker 1: But I you know, single, being being alone in the world,

1994
01:59:34,600 --> 01:59:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, single meaning not related to your relationship status,

1995
01:59:38,000 --> 01:59:42,280
Speaker 1: but you in the world is such a beautiful feeling.

1996
01:59:42,320 --> 01:59:45,520
Speaker 1: But I'm so happy I realized I'm no longer looking

1997
01:59:45,560 --> 01:59:48,280
Speaker 1: to make that anchor somewhere other than Canada. And for

1998
01:59:48,360 --> 01:59:52,160
Speaker 1: me to actually answer your question, it's because what Jimmy

1999
01:59:52,200 --> 01:59:55,960
Speaker 1: and I built here is so anchored with the Toronto

2000
01:59:56,080 --> 02:00:02,960
Speaker 1: community and our beautiful studio and our family, and um,

2001
02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:07,120
Speaker 1: that's just I'm so relieved that I have stopped trying

2002
02:00:07,160 --> 02:00:12,440
Speaker 1: to be like you know, the absurdity of the idea

2003
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:15,280
Speaker 1: of putting down roots in l A is like I

2004
02:00:15,320 --> 02:00:18,400
Speaker 1: can go to l A anytime, get an apartment, stay

2005
02:00:18,440 --> 02:00:23,080
Speaker 1: there for years, but no longer with the illusion that

2006
02:00:23,240 --> 02:00:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, you can grow a you know, maple tree

2007
02:00:27,160 --> 02:00:33,360
Speaker 1: and sand. Okay, Emily, thanks for being so honest and open.

2008
02:00:34,200 --> 02:00:37,760
Speaker 1: This is very, very insightful and I want to thank

2009
02:00:37,760 --> 02:00:40,880
Speaker 1: you for taking the talk. Thank you, Bob. I appreciated

2010
02:00:40,920 --> 02:00:44,920
Speaker 1: the conversation. Until next time. This is Bob left Sex