Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky Listener. Discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: In May of Adam Burry and I were leading groups
Speaker 1: of people through an investigation in the solitary confinement wing
Speaker 1: of Ohio State Reformatory. Every hour, another group of fifteen
Speaker 1: or so nervously excited folks would file into the pitch
Speaker 1: black space, and Adam and I would lead them through
Speaker 1: a paranormal investigation. During this though, we tried an experiment
Speaker 1: we'd never done before before we did anything investigation wise.
Speaker 1: We would ask each person to individually walk down the
Speaker 1: long corridor of fifteen or so cells, with only the
Speaker 1: moonlight coming in a few barred windows to light their way.
Speaker 1: In complete silence. We would watch them, one by one
Speaker 1: slowly make their way back and forth. Each time it
Speaker 1: felt like an eternity. Each time we all held our
Speaker 1: breath for them, and each time they would meet Adam
Speaker 1: in the far corner and whisper which cell made them
Speaker 1: the most uncomfortable walking by it All in all, close
Speaker 1: to one people made that walk that night, and all
Speaker 1: but two named the exact same cell. Let's visit Ohio
Speaker 1: State Reformatory where the hauntings began before it was ever
Speaker 1: even built. I'm Amy Brunei, and this is haunted road.
Speaker 1: Ohio State Reformatory seemed deston to be haunted. Even the
Speaker 1: land it was built on had seen plenty of casualties
Speaker 1: immediately prior to the construction of the Reformatory, The field
Speaker 1: upon which it would later be built was used as
Speaker 1: a training camp for soldiers during the Civil War. At
Speaker 1: the outbreak of the Civil War in eighteen sixty one,
Speaker 1: many northern areas, like Ohio quickly scrambled to gather and
Speaker 1: organize what was left of the various militias that had
Speaker 1: at one time existed and to induct them into the
Speaker 1: state militaries. As part of this effort, in Ohio, then
Speaker 1: Governor William Dennison ordered the creation of several camps across
Speaker 1: the state, one of which was named Camp Bartley after
Speaker 1: a former governor of Ohio named Mordechai Bartley, who was
Speaker 1: from Mansfield and was located just north of the present
Speaker 1: day Ohio State Reformatory building. Later, the camp was referred
Speaker 1: to in wartime documents as Camp Mansfield. Camp Mansfield was
Speaker 1: home base for a number of local regiments, including the
Speaker 1: thirty second O V I and fifteen V I in
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one, the hundred second O V I and
Speaker 1: I in eighteen sixty two. The camp was occupied by
Speaker 1: other Ohio units as well when their own camps were
Speaker 1: over full or otherwise unavailable. Many of these regiments, especially
Speaker 1: the thirty second, would seem massive casualties in battle on
Speaker 1: many occasions, though the grim Reaper would claim the living
Speaker 1: before they ever got the chance to step onto a
Speaker 1: battlefield to engage the enemy. Especially due to disease, which
Speaker 1: killed overwhelmingly more soldiers during the war than injuries sustained
Speaker 1: in combat. Camps such as Camp Mordechai Bartley were populated
Speaker 1: by young soldiers who had never before been exposed to
Speaker 1: a large variety of common contagious diseases, and were plagued
Speaker 1: by outbreaks of smallpox, measles, chicken pox, moms, whooping cough, typhoid,
Speaker 1: and scurvy. In October of eighteen sixty two, Camp Mansfield
Speaker 1: also became home to a decided a different group of
Speaker 1: people from the military trainees, political prisoners. All of the
Speaker 1: men incarcerated at Camp Mansfield where public officials, politicians, or
Speaker 1: newspaper publishers who had defied the US government by encouraging
Speaker 1: young men to ignore summons to war service and dodge
Speaker 1: the military draft. By eighteen sixty seven, the war had
Speaker 1: been concluded for a few years, and it was being
Speaker 1: noticed and publicly talked about that in the wake of
Speaker 1: the war, the state penitentiary was being increasingly filled with
Speaker 1: younger men who were first time offenders, for whom there
Speaker 1: was still hope of reforming into respectable members of society,
Speaker 1: and a fear was developing that confining such youths in
Speaker 1: the same company as hardened prisoners would only solidify criminal
Speaker 1: habits in the minds of these young men and make
Speaker 1: any such reformation impossible. Officials began discussing the need for
Speaker 1: some kind of intermediate penitentiary which would house criminals who
Speaker 1: were too old for the juvenile correction center, but whose
Speaker 1: crimes were minor enough that they did not warrant being
Speaker 1: sent to the Ohio State Penitentiary. The former site of
Speaker 1: Camp Bartley Mansfield was floated as a possible location for
Speaker 1: the construction of such an intermediate penitentiary. Eventually it was
Speaker 1: selected as the site of the forthcoming institution. The buildings
Speaker 1: that would come to make up the Reformatory were designed
Speaker 1: by Cleveland architect Levi Scofield. While the initial process of
Speaker 1: considering the need and planning for the construction of the
Speaker 1: Reformatory began in eighteen sixties seven, it wasn't until eighteen
Speaker 1: eighty four that legislation in Columbus was finally passed calling
Speaker 1: for its construction. It then took two years to convince
Speaker 1: the State Board of Managers that Mansfield was the ideal
Speaker 1: place for the new institution. With plans in place, the
Speaker 1: city of Mansfield raised ten thousand dollars to buy thirty
Speaker 1: acres on which the prison would sit. The State of
Speaker 1: Ohio bought another hundred fifty acres connected to this land
Speaker 1: for twenty thousand dollars. All told, between the and purchases
Speaker 1: and the building, when the Ohio State Reformatory was finally completed,
Speaker 1: the total cost was just over one point three million dollars.
Speaker 1: Construction began in November of eighteen eighty six. The Ohio
Speaker 1: State Reformatory is the largest castle like structure in Ohio.
Speaker 1: It is one of the five largest in the United States.
Speaker 1: It occupies more than two hundred fifty thousand square feet
Speaker 1: with its towering stone walls and sprawling footprint. It is
Speaker 1: listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as having
Speaker 1: the largest freestanding cellblock, which is the East Cellblock and
Speaker 1: stands in impressive six stories in all. Evidently, the six
Speaker 1: story cellblock was a later edition, having been built in
Speaker 1: nineteen o eight. If you're a movie buff you may
Speaker 1: have in fact seen many parts of it. The Shawshank
Speaker 1: Redemption was filmed there, as have been many other movies,
Speaker 1: TV shows and music videos. The building was designed with
Speaker 1: beauty and a church like aura. Schofield envisioned two a
Speaker 1: fifty thousand square feet of massive stone that would be
Speaker 1: a blend of several styles of architecture, Romanesque, Queen Anne
Speaker 1: and Victorian Gothic. Construction was finally underway, and with the
Speaker 1: first cornerstone being laid, there was much ado about the
Speaker 1: entire event. The cornerstone itself was made of smooth gray granite,
Speaker 1: but the rest of the building stone was quarried locally
Speaker 1: from an area known as the Devil's Punch Bowl. Initially,
Speaker 1: the Reformatory was constructed to house eighteen hundred inmates. In
Speaker 1: mid September eighteen, the first inmates arrived, despite the fact
Speaker 1: that some parts of the prison were not yet complete,
Speaker 1: one fifty young men who had until that point been
Speaker 1: kept at the State Penitentiary in Columbus. As soon as
Speaker 1: these prisoners arrived, they were put to work digging the
Speaker 1: building sewer system, which had not yet been completed. The
Speaker 1: Ohio State Reformatory was developed along the lines of the
Speaker 1: Auburn system, which you may be familiar with from our
Speaker 1: episode on the Eastern State Penitentiary. It was also called
Speaker 1: the Silent system. One of the primary elements of the
Speaker 1: Auburn system was that while prisoners were meant to be
Speaker 1: kept in solitary cells at night, during the day they
Speaker 1: worked alongside others, although were required to maintain complete silence,
Speaker 1: unlike the Pennsylvania system, which largely kept prisoners in isolation
Speaker 1: from one another almost the entire time. The idea was
Speaker 1: that communication was necessary to maintain one sense of self.
Speaker 1: By prohibiting communication, the inmate sense of self would disintegrate,
Speaker 1: with the result that they would be much less likely
Speaker 1: to cause problems, attempt escapes, etcetera. At one time, there
Speaker 1: were one thousand, six hundred twenty six men and boys
Speaker 1: who were students at the reformatory, and they were trained
Speaker 1: by sixteen teachers, learning subjects such as math, reading, English, economy, history,
Speaker 1: and geography. As mentioned, the prisoners learned and practiced various traits,
Speaker 1: much of which can tributed directly back to the sustaining
Speaker 1: of the prison. In addition to being responsible for much
Speaker 1: of the construction of the reformatory itself, inmates also did
Speaker 1: farm work, eventually growing and raising most of their own food.
Speaker 1: They made clothing, they worked in a modern in house
Speaker 1: print shop, and even made furniture. The furniture factory was
Speaker 1: opened in nineteen twelve under the supervision of H. O. Hansen,
Speaker 1: and produced high quality items that were well known for
Speaker 1: their beautiful handiwork and finishes. It was recorded in nineteen
Speaker 1: thirty one that eighteen thousand pieces of furniture were sold,
Speaker 1: with one hundred fifty inmates employed. At that time. The
Speaker 1: prison also had a machine shop, shoe factory, and other
Speaker 1: trade facilities on site in which the inmates worked. The
Speaker 1: shoe factory made shoes of various types for men, women,
Speaker 1: and children. In nineteen thirty three, there were eleven thousand,
Speaker 1: seven hundred forty eight pairs of women's and girls shoes made,
Speaker 1: and twenty five thousand, three hundred sixty five pair of
Speaker 1: men in boys shoes sold. Styles ranged from oxfords to
Speaker 1: high heels for women and waterproof men's boots. The grounds
Speaker 1: also had an in house fire department and lumber kiln,
Speaker 1: chapel and gymnasium, hospital, library, barbershop, power plant, and other facilities.
Speaker 1: The hospital was a ninety bed facility that employed a
Speaker 1: full staff of doctors, nurses, and other personnel. The hospital
Speaker 1: stood three stories high and extended off the east cell
Speaker 1: block in a northward direction. On the third floor, there
Speaker 1: was a medical ward, private rooms, baths, a linen area,
Speaker 1: and a room for highly contagious patients. The reformatory has
Speaker 1: its own cemetery located on the grounds. There are over
Speaker 1: two hundred headstones that were placed as inmates died of old, age, disease,
Speaker 1: or illness. Inmates burried there also include those who died
Speaker 1: of natural causes, but also quite a few murder victims
Speaker 1: and others who ended their own lives. These are the
Speaker 1: graves of folks whose bodies went unclaimed by their families.
Speaker 1: Graves in the cemetery are marked with the inmate number
Speaker 1: for each grave, but no names. For the first half
Speaker 1: century of its operation, the Reformatory kept to its vision
Speaker 1: of primarily serving moderate criminals and intending to reform them.
Speaker 1: For many years, it was touted as one of the
Speaker 1: best institutions of its sort in the United States. Over time, however,
Speaker 1: things began to change. By the early nineteen thirties, overcrowding
Speaker 1: had become a serious problem at the Reformatory, and it
Speaker 1: became progressively worse. Deteriorating conditions peaked in nineteen seventy eight,
Speaker 1: when a coalition of churches and civic groups filed a
Speaker 1: lawsuit on behalf of the inmates. The Council for Human
Speaker 1: Dignity claimed that the prisoners constitutional rights were being violated.
Speaker 1: There were two thousand, two hundred inmates boarded in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy eight in a facility that was meant to house
Speaker 1: twelve hundred. The lawsuit charged that there were brutalizing and
Speaker 1: inhumane conditions in three The lawsuit was resolved by prison
Speaker 1: officials promising to make improvements and ultimately to close the
Speaker 1: cell blocks by the end of nineteen eighty six. This
Speaker 1: deadline was eventually extended. In nineteen eight seven. The building
Speaker 1: was listed on the National Register of Historic Places. In
Speaker 1: December nineteen ninety, the last staff and inmates moved to
Speaker 1: the Mansfield Correctional Institute. All in all and estimated one
Speaker 1: hundred fifty five thousand men and boys passed through its gates,
Speaker 1: serving time for their crimes committed. As noted, more than
Speaker 1: two people died at the reformatory during its ninety four
Speaker 1: years and operations. Deaths occurred due to several causes. As
Speaker 1: with just about any institution in which a significant number
Speaker 1: of people live in close quarters, and especially one prior
Speaker 1: to many of the significant medical advances of the last
Speaker 1: half of the twentieth century, widespread illness and resultant death
Speaker 1: was a constant threat. The most serious of such threats was,
Speaker 1: perhaps unsurprisingly, tuberculosis. TB is highly contagious. Like the common cold,
Speaker 1: it spreads through the air. When people sneeze, cough, talk,
Speaker 1: or spit, they propel t B germs into the air.
Speaker 1: A person needs only to inhale a small number of
Speaker 1: these to become infected with the dreadful condition. I feel
Speaker 1: like we're all very familiar with respiratory diseases. After the
Speaker 1: last couple of years, inmates of the Ohio State reformatory
Speaker 1: may not have noticed any symptoms of illness until the
Speaker 1: disease was quite advanced. Even then, the symptoms loss of weight, fever,
Speaker 1: loss of energy, poor appetite, a productive cough, and night
Speaker 1: sweats might easily be blamed on another disease. Several inmates
Speaker 1: at the reformatory took their own lives. The first, or
Speaker 1: at least the first reported happened in mid May nine.
Speaker 1: Nineteen year old Marshall Miller tore his bedsheet into strips
Speaker 1: and with those hanged himself from the upper bunk of
Speaker 1: his cell. In nineteen sixteen, a local newspaper reported brooding
Speaker 1: over his incarsory in the Ohio State Reformatory for having
Speaker 1: shot his sweetheart following a quarrel. Anthony mcculick, a Hungarian inmate,
Speaker 1: attempted suicide shortly before noon by jumping from the top
Speaker 1: range of cells in the West cell Block, a distance
Speaker 1: of more than sixty feet to the cement floor below.
Speaker 1: He landed feet foremost was such force that the ankle
Speaker 1: bones were driven through his feet and through his shoes.
Speaker 1: There is no chance of his recovery, According to the
Speaker 1: attending physicians at the reformatory hospital in May nineteen seventy four,
Speaker 1: an inmate at the Reformatory, twenty four year old Harold Sykes,
Speaker 1: who had been sentenced in November nineteen seventy three to
Speaker 1: ten to twenty five years at the institution for robbery,
Speaker 1: killed himself by hanging himself from a towel rack with
Speaker 1: a twisted sheet. The most famous of these, however, occurred
Speaker 1: on January thirtieth, nineteen sixty. That evening, twenty two year
Speaker 1: old James Lockhart, inmate five four six seventy three, who
Speaker 1: in habited cell number thirteen and who had been at
Speaker 1: the reformatory since October nineteen fifty five for assault with
Speaker 1: the intent to kill, told the guards at supper time
Speaker 1: but he did not want to go to dinner as such.
Speaker 1: While the rest of the inmates headed to the mess hall,
Speaker 1: Lockhart remained in his cell. Lockhart doused himself and the
Speaker 1: mattress in his cell was some kind of lighter fluid,
Speaker 1: and set himself ablaze. Two guards at some point rushed
Speaker 1: in to try to put the fire out, and got
Speaker 1: badly burned in the process, but Lockhart ran to the
Speaker 1: far corner of his cell and put the burning mattress
Speaker 1: between him and the cell door blocking anyone from getting
Speaker 1: to him. The coroner declared that technically Lockhart died from asphyxiation,
Speaker 1: but his body was obviously horribly burned as well. According
Speaker 1: to another inmate, and this is really awful, his body
Speaker 1: peeled off in chunks as they pulled him along the
Speaker 1: catwalk to the infirmary. According to a former guard who
Speaker 1: saw the suicide firsthand, the body was unclaimed by his family,
Speaker 1: so it was put in a simple wooden box and
Speaker 1: buried in the prison cemetery. Clearly, with history like this,
Speaker 1: it's no wonder the Reformatory is reported to be very,
Speaker 1: very haunted. According to some sources, the paranormal character of
Speaker 1: the area upon which the Reformatory would later be built
Speaker 1: goes all the way back to the period during its
Speaker 1: tenure as a Civil War camp. Supposedly, Camp Bartley had
Speaker 1: only been open for business for a couple of months
Speaker 1: in the late spring of eighteen sixty one, when a
Speaker 1: soldier began complaining of terrifying visits from unearthly spirits. These
Speaker 1: visitations left the soldiers so horrified that he was deemed
Speaker 1: unfit for duty and sent to an asylum to recover. Also, supposedly.
Speaker 1: Other military trainees and officials began noticing around this time
Speaker 1: that items would sometimes go missing or be moved without explanation,
Speaker 1: and the ammunition tests would fail when performed in a
Speaker 1: particular part of the camp. Not long after, it was
Speaker 1: common for all based at Camp Mordecai to report hearing
Speaker 1: whispers and muffled voices where there should only be silent
Speaker 1: In the northeastern corner of the training ground. Recruits even
Speaker 1: reported hearing voices that would emanate from the ground, causing
Speaker 1: them to question their sanity. Many of the haunting stories, though,
Speaker 1: have to do with the reformatory itself. The reformatory sees
Speaker 1: over one hundred thousand visitors a year, and reports of
Speaker 1: activity are rampant both during daytime tours and evening ghost tours.
Speaker 1: Visitors often report rocks being thrown at them being scratched,
Speaker 1: loud voices including screams, cell doors slamming shut, footsteps, more
Speaker 1: shadow figures than you can imagine, and lots of full
Speaker 1: bodied apparitions. It is not uncommon for visitors to see
Speaker 1: themselves out, never to return. Many former and current law
Speaker 1: enforcement officials are associated with the maintenance of the building
Speaker 1: or come to visit for historical reasons, and they seem
Speaker 1: to get more of a response than others. But don't
Speaker 1: take my word for it. I've got my friend Greg Faketic,
Speaker 1: lead paranormal investigator at the Reformatory and retired police officer,
Speaker 1: coming up next to tell us all about the most
Speaker 1: common paranormal reports at the building and how even you
Speaker 1: can visit and experience it for yourself if you're brave enough.
Speaker 1: All right, So I am now joined by Greg Faketick,
Speaker 1: who is the co founder of try Sea ghost Hunters,
Speaker 1: and he is also the lead paranormal investigator at Ohio
Speaker 1: State Reformatory, so basically the perfect person to talk to
Speaker 1: about this stuff. So Hi Greg, Hi Amy, how are you.
Speaker 1: I'm good, I'm good. Thanks for joining us. Now. I've
Speaker 1: met Greg over the years because I've been back to
Speaker 1: the Reformatory I don't know, at least two or three
Speaker 1: times at this point, and I've had some pretty wild
Speaker 1: experiences there. Now, where is it that you always stick
Speaker 1: me for those investigations? We put you down in solitary
Speaker 1: confined it that's right, that's right. I knew I was
Speaker 1: somewhere underneath, surrounded by darkness, that's what I remember. Yeah. So, actually,
Speaker 1: last time I was there, I did a really interesting experiment.
Speaker 1: Adam was stationed with me as well, and so there's
Speaker 1: this whole row of cells that go down this very
Speaker 1: dark hallway, obviously, and every single group that came in,
Speaker 1: we would have each person walk up and down the
Speaker 1: cell block by themselves, which alone is actually quite terrifying,
Speaker 1: and then we would have them come back and secretly
Speaker 1: whisper into Adam's ear which cell was the most uncomfortable
Speaker 1: for them when they walked past it. So we did this.
Speaker 1: We I think we had four groups of maybe fifteen people,
Speaker 1: and I tell you what, but then at the end
Speaker 1: we would figure out which cell it was. And the
Speaker 1: first group, every single person picked the same cell. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's
Speaker 1: like you go down this kind of corrid or there's
Speaker 1: like a almost a doorway kind of in between the
Speaker 1: cord or if that makes sense. It was always just
Speaker 1: past that doorway that cell on the left, and then
Speaker 1: it happened again. Second, third, fourth group. There were maybe
Speaker 1: a couple of people who named the very end as
Speaker 1: the scariest moment for them, but it was so strange
Speaker 1: that every single person felt that same uncomfortable, heavy feeling
Speaker 1: going by the exact same cell. And so that was
Speaker 1: an interesting experience. So what is with that area? You
Speaker 1: know that that's that's funny that you say that, because
Speaker 1: my wife Cathy is attracted to that cell. She's been
Speaker 1: in that cell doing e VP sessions and she's gotten
Speaker 1: some weird stuff. We like using the iPhone voice memo
Speaker 1: because you can see the graph, so you can basically
Speaker 1: see e vps or whatever is going on. So she
Speaker 1: sits in there and she has her recorder going and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the graph is going crazy when
Speaker 1: she's not saying anything. You know that she stops and
Speaker 1: she plays it back and she there's a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of movement, like there's guys in there with her. It's
Speaker 1: really interesting that that she captures that, and it's really
Speaker 1: interesting that a lot of people, including the groups that
Speaker 1: were with you, were attracted to that cell. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I like to do kind of those experiments where there's
Speaker 1: no room for confirmation bias or anything like that, Like
Speaker 1: we had no knowledge of you guys investigating in that
Speaker 1: cell or anything prior. So I just like to tell
Speaker 1: investigators to go by your feeling a lot, you know,
Speaker 1: because that's just our animal instinct is if there's something
Speaker 1: not right, you know, the hair goes up on the
Speaker 1: back of your neck and you get that feeling like
Speaker 1: you should be extra cautious. And I think we sense
Speaker 1: that if there is some sort of energy around. So
Speaker 1: I don't know who's in that cell, but I know
Speaker 1: I'm directly on the other side. I had another experience
Speaker 1: where I was walking back and forth and I was
Speaker 1: coming back from something, and there was just a man,
Speaker 1: like a full figure of a man, standing in the
Speaker 1: middle of the corridor, and I couldn't even tell if
Speaker 1: he was real or not. I was like, is that
Speaker 1: one of our attendees? Like who is this person? And
Speaker 1: so I watched by I had the creepiest feeling, and
Speaker 1: I turned around and he's gone. And then again I
Speaker 1: heard people saw this shadow figure down there a lot.
Speaker 1: So is that something else you've heard in that area? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: people see shadow figures, big dark shadow figures down there.
Speaker 1: In fact, I've been investigating over thirty years and I've
Speaker 1: rarely seen an apparition. But one of the apparitions I
Speaker 1: have seen was down in solitary confinement, and that was
Speaker 1: just last month. I had a private investigation that night
Speaker 1: and I was given the guests a tour and were
Speaker 1: walking by those metal cells, those isolation cells, and as
Speaker 1: I look into one, I swore there was somebody standing
Speaker 1: in there, and it's like one of those things where
Speaker 1: I jumped back. I was like, oh wow, you know.
Speaker 1: But the guests that was right behind me, she saw
Speaker 1: it too and she started crying, so she validated what
Speaker 1: I thought I saw. So that it's getting it seems
Speaker 1: like it's getting more active. But you know, there have
Speaker 1: been a few documented murders down there. Yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of energy, oh for sure. For sure outside of
Speaker 1: solitary confinement. What do you think is the most active
Speaker 1: area in the place. I have two locations, the whole
Speaker 1: third floor in the administration portion, which is kind of
Speaker 1: weird because it was administration remains weren't really there, but
Speaker 1: they're probably wandering around. And the West Attic. I don't
Speaker 1: think I've been to either of those. The West Attic
Speaker 1: is hands down the most active location there. What happens
Speaker 1: up there, oh man, you get we get stuff thrown
Speaker 1: at us. You'll hear footsteps, you'll be touched. You'll see
Speaker 1: visible balls of light up there. You can see shadow
Speaker 1: figures in the doorway, ambient light coming in from the
Speaker 1: chapel area. People have been attacked up there. It's just
Speaker 1: a really really intense feeling. I've I've had experiences up
Speaker 1: there that I can't explain. You know, I've been touched.
Speaker 1: But it's really dark up there, and sometimes you can
Speaker 1: feel an ice coldness walking around you. And one time,
Speaker 1: this is weird because it's already dark and you can't
Speaker 1: see your hand in front of your face, but it
Speaker 1: just got darker. It was like somebody just put something
Speaker 1: over my eyes and like closing my eyes really tight.
Speaker 1: And I've never experienced the darker than dark. That was
Speaker 1: kind of crazy. A lot of people have a lot
Speaker 1: of different experiences up there. We had some police officers
Speaker 1: up there in uniform after our Blood prison our Hunted
Speaker 1: House attraction, and they actually had stuff being thrown at them.
Speaker 1: They actually had marks on their uniforms where they were
Speaker 1: being hit. Jeez. I mean, I guess they probably wouldn't
Speaker 1: be very popular in there. You no, no, uh, you
Speaker 1: know seeing the uniforms. Yeah, But now I'm a retired
Speaker 1: police officer, and I've never had a problem up there
Speaker 1: or anywhere in the prison where I've been like attacked.
Speaker 1: I've been touched, I've had my keys polled, But you know,
Speaker 1: I talked with the guys. I showed them respect because
Speaker 1: I'm there all the time and I don't want any problems. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know, I always feel like it's interesting how
Speaker 1: I meet a lot of either law enforcement or retired
Speaker 1: law enforcement. I meet a lot of them involved in
Speaker 1: paranormal investigation and a lot of them involved in places
Speaker 1: like the Reformatory, like you know, like even like Missouri
Speaker 1: State Penitentiary and stuff. I find that they do really
Speaker 1: actively either like to investigate or just also just kind
Speaker 1: of historically try to maintain a place like that. Is
Speaker 1: that why you got involved with the Reformatory? You know
Speaker 1: what it could be. I mean, we've been a police officer,
Speaker 1: you know, we like investigating. We like trying to a
Speaker 1: piece together facts to solve a crime. So it's almost
Speaker 1: the same thing. You know, you're trying to investigate, You're
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what's going on here, what's causing this.
Speaker 1: So I think they go hand in hand. But there's
Speaker 1: something about the building. But The first time I investigated
Speaker 1: there was two thousand and four, and the building just
Speaker 1: like it just reached out to me and grabbed me.
Speaker 1: That first night, I said I want to work here,
Speaker 1: and when I retired, I started volunteering at the Reformatory.
Speaker 1: There's just something about the building. You know, you're not
Speaker 1: the first person to say something like that to me
Speaker 1: about these haunted locations. They do kind of take on
Speaker 1: a life of their own, and there is something oddly
Speaker 1: comforting about them. I don't know how to describe it,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I feel that from the Reformatory, and
Speaker 1: I don't know too Like I I think I also
Speaker 1: really enjoy just kind of the family atmosphere, like you
Speaker 1: and your team. You're also devoted to what you do,
Speaker 1: and everybody knows each other so well and like always
Speaker 1: so helpful, really great with questions, and so that might
Speaker 1: be part of it too, But I always feel very
Speaker 1: at home there. Strangely enough. Well, that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: That's a good thing. The spirits that are there, you know,
Speaker 1: they're not all bad. They're not all bad. We've had
Speaker 1: some really helpful ones when we get e vps where
Speaker 1: they will actually help you m M. But you know,
Speaker 1: you get some bad ones up there, but yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's like a family atmosphere, the volunteers, the staff members,
Speaker 1: it's like our home. Oh absolutely. And I'd say that
Speaker 1: to people a lot when they go in and investigate
Speaker 1: a place like that, like, don't make a blanket judgment
Speaker 1: as far as who you're talking. I mean, I've said
Speaker 1: that on the podcast before. I also tell that when
Speaker 1: I'm leading groups in there, I say, hey, you don't
Speaker 1: know why someone is here, how they ended up here,
Speaker 1: what was going on in their life like that. You
Speaker 1: can't make judgments on someone just because they ended up
Speaker 1: in a place like this. And I think that's really
Speaker 1: helpful in investigating locations like the reformatory has that is
Speaker 1: that kind of a philosophy you share as well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you know what, there were probably a lot of
Speaker 1: innocent people that were incarcerated there. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: you don't know people's back stories or anything, just like
Speaker 1: you know the living. I mean, we don't know what
Speaker 1: these people are going through or what has happened to
Speaker 1: them in their lives. So and I know a lot
Speaker 1: of people are judgmental, but unless you know that person
Speaker 1: or know what's going on, in their life. You know,
Speaker 1: it's you shouldn't be judging. And these guys they're they're
Speaker 1: serving their time. They committed crimes and their serving their time.
Speaker 1: You know, there they lost their freedom. Yeah. I sometimes
Speaker 1: wonder if they remain in places like that as kind
Speaker 1: of a self imposed sentence, or if it's kind of
Speaker 1: that whole idea that they just they didn't know anything else.
Speaker 1: They were there for so long and they're afraid to
Speaker 1: move on to whatever happens next. I will say that
Speaker 1: the second aghost starts throwing things at me, that I
Speaker 1: might get a little nasty. You're not allowed to throw
Speaker 1: things right, right, and that's you know. Or when we're
Speaker 1: up in the attic, it's like, do not throw things
Speaker 1: at us. Yeah, it's boundaries. Yeah, we always tell them that.
Speaker 1: In fact, I was up there last night and it's like,
Speaker 1: you can throw things, just don't throw things at us.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to throw a rock or
Speaker 1: something down at the end of the attic, that's fine.
Speaker 1: Just don't throw anything at us. Yeah, I mean that's fair.
Speaker 1: I would say that's fair. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I'm treating you guys with respect. And I tell
Speaker 1: everybody treat them with respect, especially up here because there
Speaker 1: were a lot of a lot of violent inmates up there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have I don't know that I've been up there.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go check that area out next
Speaker 1: time I have to put you up there. Okay, well
Speaker 1: let's see. Well we'll talk about that later. So okay,
Speaker 1: So now as far as um people who visit, like,
Speaker 1: I know, you run obviously a lot of private investigations
Speaker 1: there and in events, and there's also just tours. Do
Speaker 1: you ever have people come through who are just have
Speaker 1: to leave like they've had like they just have an
Speaker 1: experience and they are done. Oh oh yeah, oh yeah
Speaker 1: that that that happens. It happens on the private haunts,
Speaker 1: that happens on the public houns, even happened like during
Speaker 1: the day tours. Yeah, I feel like those would be
Speaker 1: the ones more apt to that because I feel like
Speaker 1: they're probably taking the tour not really thinking about ghosts,
Speaker 1: just really wanting to learn history, and then if something
Speaker 1: happens in that instance, they'd probably be more you know,
Speaker 1: likely to vacate the premises pretty quickly. Are there any
Speaker 1: more memorable instances of that you can think of Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't work day tours, so I'm there
Speaker 1: at night much I love. I do know of one
Speaker 1: incidents where a woman was taken photos. She wasn't investigating.
Speaker 1: She was taking photos and she was up on the
Speaker 1: third floor in the administration portion and took a couple
Speaker 1: of photos. One of the photos freaked her out, um,
Speaker 1: and she immediately found a staff member who then took
Speaker 1: photos of her camera and sent them to me. I
Speaker 1: don't know if she actually left, but it did freak
Speaker 1: her out, and she wasn't there investigating. She was est there,
Speaker 1: you know, the day tours. Now, speaking of that, have
Speaker 1: you heard accounts of paranormal activity happening there while it
Speaker 1: was in operation? Yes? Yes. In fact, I was talking
Speaker 1: with a former guard last night and he was a
Speaker 1: guard there from nine to closed in and oh yeah,
Speaker 1: he had experiences there, and he was telling me about
Speaker 1: other staff members who had experiences there that they couldn't explain. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's got to be tough too, because you have to,
Speaker 1: you know, keep a brave face on, especially in instances
Speaker 1: like that. What are the more frequent paranormal encounters people
Speaker 1: have when they're there? A lot of the times you
Speaker 1: know obviously they're e vps, but it seems that lately
Speaker 1: two people have been seeing shadow figures throughout hearing voices,
Speaker 1: and those can be really creepy, especially if you're in
Speaker 1: a room by yourself and you hear a voice. People
Speaker 1: have been hearing growling too, that seems to be increasing.
Speaker 1: And there again that's up on the third floor. I
Speaker 1: know that when and I think we did an event
Speaker 1: their last May. I think yours was maybe one of
Speaker 1: my might have been my first event back after the pandemic.
Speaker 1: I think it was actually because I remember just being like, wow, people,
Speaker 1: you know, and it was just it was this whole
Speaker 1: like it was the first time back and so long.
Speaker 1: I got emotional a few times because I love meeting
Speaker 1: other investigators and fans of the paranormal and it's like
Speaker 1: one of my favorite things to do, and to not
Speaker 1: be able to do it for almost two years was
Speaker 1: very hard. Actually at that point is just a year
Speaker 1: and a half, but it was long enough that I
Speaker 1: felt it. I think that that too, was one of
Speaker 1: the first times people were investigating there again. Do you
Speaker 1: think that having this space empty for so long and
Speaker 1: not interacting, do you think that affected the haunting in
Speaker 1: some way. I think it did, especially in one area there.
Speaker 1: Get up in the third floor edmin. We're actually having
Speaker 1: people get physically attacked up there. A lot of people
Speaker 1: were getting scratched on the back. Gee. I mean I
Speaker 1: was up there. I was doing a tour for a
Speaker 1: private investigation. And also the guy said, how complaining about
Speaker 1: a burning sensation on his back. We lifted up his
Speaker 1: shirt and there's these really you know, they almost looked
Speaker 1: like bruises on his back. So there was a lot
Speaker 1: of attacks up there, and that was like after the pandemic.
Speaker 1: In fact, that most of them happened between March and
Speaker 1: May last year. Ah yeah, that was right when you
Speaker 1: started going back. I feel like they must have been
Speaker 1: used to being alone for a while. Yeah. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: we couldn't figure it out. And in fact, it's the
Speaker 1: same area that that woman captured something weird on her camera,
Speaker 1: So there was something going up there. I mean it's
Speaker 1: died down now up there, we haven't really had any
Speaker 1: tax but of course we haven't had any parent omal events.
Speaker 1: It sounds like you need to have people sign waivers.
Speaker 1: It's funny because when I when I'm up there of
Speaker 1: the tours, I'm like, okay, everybody, you you did sign
Speaker 1: your waivers right. Usually I'm afraid people are going to
Speaker 1: fall downstairs or something, but that sounds pretty intense. The
Speaker 1: whole scratching thing. Yeah, I always hear that that when
Speaker 1: people have that experience of being scratched, it doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: feel like your traditional scratch. It often presents as kind
Speaker 1: of either a burning sensation or an ice cold sensation.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I said, I hear that time and time again.
Speaker 1: I don't know how that works. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes people associate the idea of like scratches
Speaker 1: with something negative or demonic, but in my experience, it's
Speaker 1: many times something either or a person the spirit of
Speaker 1: a person just wanting either you to leave, or sometimes
Speaker 1: they're just really desperate to get your attention. You know.
Speaker 1: It's almost like when you think of someone like, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to save themselves or grab onto something, they just
Speaker 1: kind of get overly, you know, kind of overshoot the basket,
Speaker 1: as they say. So it can mean, you know, a
Speaker 1: couple of different things in conjunction with other evidence that
Speaker 1: may present itself at the same time. I agree. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know what we don't know what it's like on
Speaker 1: the other side, and here we are, we got investigators
Speaker 1: trying to communicate, right, Maybe that's they're trying to communicate back, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't know enough to kind of to
Speaker 1: assume how they're going to come across. So it's hard
Speaker 1: not to take that automatically as being something negative. But
Speaker 1: you know, there's been many times where I've had something
Speaker 1: you know, physically interact like push or shove or something,
Speaker 1: but then at the same time I'm getting e vps
Speaker 1: that say help me or don't leave, or you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's this kind of desperate act. I almost feel like,
Speaker 1: well that being said, now that I'm sure everyone just
Speaker 1: wants to line up and get in there, right, yes,
Speaker 1: come on, come on. So I know you do a
Speaker 1: really great conference every year, and I think I've been
Speaker 1: the last two I believe, maybe even more than I
Speaker 1: lose track. But it's lovely how you kind of people
Speaker 1: can go into the Reformatory and you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of vendors and people like me that you can
Speaker 1: come up and meet, and then there's lectures all day
Speaker 1: and then at night we get to investigate, which is cool.
Speaker 1: So can you tell a little bit about that and
Speaker 1: how people can get involved. Oh? Sure, we do an event.
Speaker 1: This year's event is May twentie through the twenty second.
Speaker 1: It's called Parasicon. This year it's called Parisicon three. It
Speaker 1: would have been four but got canceled because of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: But it is a paranormal and psychic convention that is
Speaker 1: held at the House State Reformatory. Each year it gets bigger.
Speaker 1: This year we have ninety three vendor tables with over
Speaker 1: eighty vendors, and we do have some great celebrities. I
Speaker 1: have Amy that will be there, and Adam will be there,
Speaker 1: Chip Coffee will be there and a host of other celebrities.
Speaker 1: And for our event, it costs nothing to get into
Speaker 1: our event. You pay your admission into the House State Reformatory.
Speaker 1: You can do yourself guided tours throughout the prison and
Speaker 1: you can come, you know, check out the vendors, go
Speaker 1: meet the celebrities, listening to the talks. That Saturday night,
Speaker 1: May one, we have a celebrity ghost hunt and we
Speaker 1: do have tickets available for that. And this year we're
Speaker 1: doing something different for Friday night, We're doing a v
Speaker 1: I P Meet and greet where a certain amount of
Speaker 1: guests can mingle and hang out with the celebrities and
Speaker 1: they'll be appetizers there. There will be a bar there,
Speaker 1: we'll have a DJ there, so it'll just be a
Speaker 1: relaxed feeling prior to the big event. For more information
Speaker 1: on the paras Icon, you can go to www dot
Speaker 1: paras Icon dot com. That's p A r A P
Speaker 1: S Y c O N dot com. It will give
Speaker 1: you everything that you need to know about the event. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if you are listening to this after the fact,
Speaker 1: this is a yearly thing and it's raises a lot
Speaker 1: of money for the Reformatory, and it's yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: a really great event. And it's like I said, we
Speaker 1: love doing it. We love mingling. It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: You know, you can go upstairs and get scratched apparently,
Speaker 1: so that's your thing. If that's I'm really glad I
Speaker 1: got to chat with you again, and thank you for
Speaker 1: filling everyone in on the haunts and what to expect.
Speaker 1: And you know, even if you can't make the event,
Speaker 1: please go and visit the Reformatory. It's got really great history,
Speaker 1: great tours, and you might just have a paranormal experience
Speaker 1: of your own. Thank you so much, Greg. I appreciate
Speaker 1: you taking the time. Thank you Amy for having me on,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking forward to seeing you and me. Like
Speaker 1: many places we visit on Haunted Road, Ohio State Reformatory
Speaker 1: started with the best of intentions but ended on a
Speaker 1: very tragic note. I don't think there's enough time to
Speaker 1: scratch the surface of all the deaths and unfortunate happenings
Speaker 1: that took place there. But it's increasingly apparent that the
Speaker 1: building isn't done reminding us of its history. Oddly, and
Speaker 1: like I mentioned chatting with Greg, it doesn't have a
Speaker 1: foreboding feeling when you enter. The history is massively important
Speaker 1: and you can tell so by the passion of the
Speaker 1: volunteers who run it. So it's definitely worth a visit.
Speaker 1: And if you do go, please let them know that
Speaker 1: I sent them your way. And also, even though I
Speaker 1: say that it's comfortable inside, let me be clear, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't like spend the night in there alone or anything,
Speaker 1: but like I said, I do highly recommend you visit.
Speaker 1: I'm Amy Brunei and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road
Speaker 1: is a production of Heart Radio and Grimm and mild
Speaker 1: from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted by
Speaker 1: Amy Bruney. Executive producers include Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick. The show is produced by rema Ill Kali
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Research by Taylor Haggerdorn, Amy Bruney, and
Speaker 1: Robin Miniter. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit
Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.