WEBVTT - Burt Bacharach & Daniel Tashian 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:23.716 Pushkin. There's no stopping Burt back Iraq. He's a gifted 0:00:23.756 --> 0:00:27.116 composer who's been writing pop hits for artists like Dion Warwick, 0:00:27.316 --> 0:00:32.076 Elvis Costello, and Dusty Springfield since the fifties. He even 0:00:32.076 --> 0:00:35.676 wrote a read this iconic I Say a Little Prayer. Now, 0:00:35.796 --> 0:00:38.876 at ninety two years old, Bert's found a new muse. 0:00:40.596 --> 0:00:44.356 That's Daniel Tashin singing. In late July, Burt back Iraq 0:00:44.396 --> 0:00:48.196 and Daniel released the five song EP Blue Umbrella. They 0:00:48.276 --> 0:00:51.436 might seem like an unlikely duo. Daniel is a Nashville 0:00:51.476 --> 0:00:54.996 based singer songwriter whose connection to country music runs deep. 0:00:55.916 --> 0:00:58.556 His parents were part of Emmy Lou Harris's backing band, 0:00:58.836 --> 0:01:00.316 and he just one Album of the Year at the 0:01:00.356 --> 0:01:05.716 Grammys for co writing and producing Casey Musgrave's breakout Golden Hour. Bert, 0:01:05.796 --> 0:01:08.676 on the other hand, is a living legend and made 0:01:08.676 --> 0:01:10.596 his career writing R and B hits for the likes 0:01:10.596 --> 0:01:14.476 of ROBERTA. Flack and Tom Jones. But as you're hearing 0:01:14.516 --> 0:01:17.276 this interview with Bruce headlam Bert and Daniel are a 0:01:17.356 --> 0:01:21.716 perfect match. Daniel talks about learning to navigate Bert's tricky 0:01:21.756 --> 0:01:25.556 trademark compositions and Bert says writing for Daniel has given 0:01:25.636 --> 0:01:32.196 him new life. This is broken record line of notes 0:01:32.236 --> 0:01:36.236 for the digital age. I'm justin Mitchell. Here's Bruce Headlam 0:01:36.276 --> 0:01:40.956 in conversation with Bert Backrack and Daniel Tasher. Bert, you 0:01:41.036 --> 0:01:44.116 once said that you didn't know that a song was 0:01:44.156 --> 0:01:46.916 going to work until you were in the recording studio, 0:01:46.996 --> 0:01:50.236 until you had the musicians there. What's it like sending something. 0:01:50.276 --> 0:01:51.676 I'm going, well, I don't know what it's going to 0:01:51.716 --> 0:01:55.436 sound like because I can't be there always for me 0:01:56.436 --> 0:01:59.356 in the past when they knew people would be there 0:01:59.556 --> 0:02:02.836 or in the in the same studio, I lived by 0:02:02.876 --> 0:02:06.316 the credo of it was the moment of truth. You 0:02:06.476 --> 0:02:09.836 lived or died with that song. In the studio. It 0:02:09.956 --> 0:02:14.156 felt good going in, but things can go wrong in 0:02:14.236 --> 0:02:17.276 the concept. I had this habit. I don't know whether 0:02:17.316 --> 0:02:19.796 I ever told you, Daniel, when I got in trouble 0:02:20.236 --> 0:02:25.196 on a date, string players out there and something was 0:02:25.436 --> 0:02:28.916 amiss in the concept, the way the arrangement was going down, 0:02:29.396 --> 0:02:32.756 I'd give a break to the band ten minutes. I'd 0:02:32.796 --> 0:02:38.236 go into the bathroom, to the men's room, into a stall, 0:02:38.276 --> 0:02:41.676 just close the lid, sit there on the stall and 0:02:41.836 --> 0:02:46.916 try to hear this whole scope of where this record 0:02:47.036 --> 0:02:50.476 was going, where this song was going, and to make 0:02:50.556 --> 0:02:54.036 sure there were no pimples. If the pimples were there, 0:02:54.156 --> 0:02:57.036 the pimples drove me into the bathroom. And then you 0:02:57.196 --> 0:03:00.756 try to try to work it through and you don't 0:03:00.796 --> 0:03:03.316 have anybody leaning on you. You're not at the piano 0:03:03.396 --> 0:03:07.196 trying to figure it out in a room full of musicians. 0:03:07.836 --> 0:03:10.836 So for me, it's the moment truth. That's where you 0:03:10.916 --> 0:03:14.356 know you got something. So I want to go back 0:03:14.356 --> 0:03:19.676 to how this collaboration started. It started with a meeting 0:03:19.836 --> 0:03:21.996 at your house, Burt, and I'd like to hear both 0:03:22.036 --> 0:03:23.916 of you just tell me a bit about how that 0:03:24.036 --> 0:03:29.276 came about. Okay, Daniel's on a glow, Daniel's on a 0:03:29.316 --> 0:03:32.756 winning streak. Daniel was a very very happy guy, and 0:03:32.836 --> 0:03:36.636 he had just won the Grammy for produce Or of 0:03:36.676 --> 0:03:42.036 the Year and Casey's record, which is a brilliant record, 0:03:42.836 --> 0:03:46.316 and you pick it up from there, Daniel, Well, there's 0:03:46.316 --> 0:03:48.916 a lot of mystery for me around Bert before I 0:03:48.956 --> 0:03:51.036 met him. And you know, they say you shouldn't meet 0:03:51.076 --> 0:03:54.436 some of your heroes because sometimes you know, you can 0:03:54.596 --> 0:03:56.756 maybe not have the kind of interaction that you hope for. 0:03:56.836 --> 0:03:59.396 But in the case of me and Bert, and I 0:03:59.436 --> 0:04:02.036 do consider you to be one of my great heroes. Bert, 0:04:02.836 --> 0:04:06.036 thank you. In that situation, I found you to be 0:04:06.156 --> 0:04:09.796 very warm and welcoming. You welcome me into your music room, UM, 0:04:09.996 --> 0:04:12.196 sort of a sunken kind of living room you kind 0:04:12.196 --> 0:04:14.476 of come down into and there's there's a piano, and 0:04:14.716 --> 0:04:16.476 up on the wall, you know, are the are these 0:04:16.516 --> 0:04:20.556 Oscars and Grammys and and Gershwin Award and uh, it's 0:04:20.716 --> 0:04:24.156 very very heavy stuff for a guy like me. And UM, 0:04:24.556 --> 0:04:26.796 but you had worked on some music for a little 0:04:26.876 --> 0:04:29.556 lyric Shred that I had sent you, and UM, I 0:04:29.596 --> 0:04:31.516 couldn't help it. Man, the tears came to my eyes. 0:04:31.556 --> 0:04:33.996 It was so beautiful. I loved. I loved the way 0:04:34.036 --> 0:04:37.076 that you, UM made the words that I had written 0:04:37.276 --> 0:04:39.676 kind of come to life in this in this way 0:04:39.716 --> 0:04:42.036 that I never I never could have thought of on 0:04:42.076 --> 0:04:44.596 my own. And and it was just wonderful to be 0:04:44.676 --> 0:04:47.996 there in that room with you. And I was ensconced 0:04:48.036 --> 0:04:51.476 in a very comfortable armchair with a nice cup of tea, 0:04:51.556 --> 0:04:53.876 and you were playing to me right right next to me. 0:04:54.436 --> 0:04:57.436 UM on the beginning of Blue Umbrella and it's a 0:04:57.476 --> 0:05:01.676 memory that I'll cherish all my life. And I could 0:05:01.716 --> 0:05:05.316 say this the thing about Daniel, I don't think you know, 0:05:05.476 --> 0:05:11.156 I've had different collaborations with Elsa, for with how David, 0:05:11.716 --> 0:05:14.916 my ex wife, Carol bay or Sager. There was something 0:05:14.956 --> 0:05:20.756 about this relationship as it's grown and expanded, we genuinely 0:05:21.316 --> 0:05:26.836 really like each other. And the more time that we work, 0:05:27.716 --> 0:05:32.116 connect talk, there's no fear, you know, there's no you know, 0:05:32.156 --> 0:05:36.236 you always have a will. Will this future collaborator be 0:05:36.756 --> 0:05:42.796 something that will like my music? Will it work? See 0:05:42.876 --> 0:05:47.836 Daniels in this He's got all bases covered because he's 0:05:49.476 --> 0:05:51.836 I love the way he sings, which I didn't know 0:05:52.676 --> 0:05:56.436 until I heard it. I love his musicianship, I love 0:05:56.476 --> 0:06:01.396 his words, and the thing that I find very interesting 0:06:02.076 --> 0:06:04.356 because I think the work has been really productive and 0:06:04.516 --> 0:06:08.796 really good and proud of what we've done. Daniel be too, 0:06:08.876 --> 0:06:14.436 bir and friendship has grown. So we'll talk at different times. Well, 0:06:15.116 --> 0:06:19.116 we'll keep on writing. You know. Um, we've got a 0:06:19.156 --> 0:06:27.236 couple of more songs in the pipeline now and yeah, 0:06:27.316 --> 0:06:31.356 and the same musicians, but they'll instead of all being 0:06:31.356 --> 0:06:35.036 in the studio, everybody will be in their own house 0:06:35.156 --> 0:06:41.316 like in Nashville. Yeah, and being able to um hear 0:06:41.396 --> 0:06:46.996 each other as parts are added. It's a it's not 0:06:47.036 --> 0:06:51.676 the perfect solution, but the sound is good. That was 0:06:51.796 --> 0:06:55.276 one of my concerns, how it would sound stuff coming 0:06:55.476 --> 0:06:59.436 instead of off the board in a studio with all 0:06:59.516 --> 0:07:05.796 the gear. But it sounds really good. So that took 0:07:05.836 --> 0:07:12.876 any fears, concerns of new stuff that we write. But 0:07:12.916 --> 0:07:15.396 I love it that we've we've done this thing with 0:07:15.476 --> 0:07:21.076 Blue Umbrella and and me too. I'm proud of the 0:07:21.236 --> 0:07:26.596 songs and whatever happens with it, if pride will always 0:07:26.636 --> 0:07:29.756 be there. Yeah, I want to go back to what 0:07:29.836 --> 0:07:32.356 you said about Daniel as a singer. I mean he's 0:07:33.036 --> 0:07:36.956 mainly known as a producer. You know, not everybody can 0:07:37.036 --> 0:07:41.236 sing a Birt backrack melody. You've got a very particular 0:07:42.556 --> 0:07:47.156 flavor of melody. You play a lot with the rhythm 0:07:48.156 --> 0:07:52.236 or the beat, I guess, the time signature. And obviously 0:07:52.316 --> 0:07:56.476 you've had some incredible collaborators. Who do you know, starting 0:07:56.516 --> 0:07:59.396 with Dion Warwick and many others. What does a good 0:07:59.396 --> 0:08:05.396 Burt backrack singer have to have to sing your songs? Well, 0:08:05.556 --> 0:08:07.796 you don't know what you're going to get with Daniel 0:08:08.156 --> 0:08:11.836 like because we'd worked in a room until we got 0:08:11.836 --> 0:08:14.556 it in the studio. But I never had any doubt 0:08:14.596 --> 0:08:17.076 that he's going to sing well. But when I heard 0:08:17.116 --> 0:08:20.356 him in the studio, he does his homework. He comes 0:08:20.356 --> 0:08:23.956 in prepared. I'm a big one in preparation. And then 0:08:24.276 --> 0:08:29.356 you know, it's like what works. It's all interchangeable. Half 0:08:29.396 --> 0:08:31.956 of it could work, half of it couldn't work. But 0:08:32.236 --> 0:08:35.476 we'll get through it. But our taste, we kind of 0:08:35.556 --> 0:08:40.316 understand each other and in a very a very kind 0:08:40.316 --> 0:08:46.476 of sensible, loving way. He's my friend. I love you too, Bert, 0:08:46.556 --> 0:08:49.476 I really do, man. And I think one thing a 0:08:49.516 --> 0:08:54.196 singer needs to do is to stick to the melody 0:08:54.796 --> 0:08:57.036 because it's probably a good one, you know. And I 0:08:57.036 --> 0:08:59.356 think a lot of singers tend to kind of go 0:08:59.476 --> 0:09:03.436 into maybe areas where they feel like maybe more comfortable, 0:09:03.636 --> 0:09:05.996 like doing licks or something that they know they can 0:09:06.036 --> 0:09:09.716 pull off, and that that our crowdpleasers, and that doesn't 0:09:09.756 --> 0:09:11.916 really cut it with with with your music, you know. 0:09:12.036 --> 0:09:14.756 I think you've got to um be the kind of 0:09:14.796 --> 0:09:17.596 singer that can that can stick to the to the 0:09:17.676 --> 0:09:20.116 inc There was an outro and we were working in 0:09:20.156 --> 0:09:23.396 the studio and this was another one of those unforgettable moments. 0:09:23.436 --> 0:09:25.876 But I just had this. I was tempted to kind 0:09:25.876 --> 0:09:28.916 of beer off into some more sort of um, you know, 0:09:29.116 --> 0:09:32.876 dreadful kind of ad libbing. He sort of said, you know, gently, 0:09:33.036 --> 0:09:35.876 you know, maybe let's not let's not let's not deviate here. 0:09:36.356 --> 0:09:39.156 You know, people think that, you know, someone who has 0:09:39.196 --> 0:09:42.356 some harmonic complexity to their music, like Bert, that you 0:09:42.356 --> 0:09:45.636 would think that he's interested in complexity, but he's actually 0:09:45.956 --> 0:09:49.716 quite interested in the opposite. He really loves simplicity. Um, 0:09:49.716 --> 0:09:59.316 he really loves um a simple um, catchy song, you know. Economics, Yeah, uh, 0:09:59.356 --> 0:10:05.476 what's not there is dealing a space sometimes it's very advantageous. 0:10:06.356 --> 0:10:08.556 M hmmm. And the more I've gotten to know you, 0:10:08.676 --> 0:10:11.516 I mean, I honestly, you know, I really do like 0:10:11.636 --> 0:10:14.876 that about our collaboration that I, um, the learning aspect 0:10:14.916 --> 0:10:18.876 of it for me, and um, the confirmation of things 0:10:18.916 --> 0:10:23.316 that I've instinctively felt, you know, UM, I like that. 0:10:24.036 --> 0:10:26.276 Can you can you give me an example when you 0:10:26.316 --> 0:10:32.556 said confirmation of things that felt? Well, that that really 0:10:33.316 --> 0:10:35.076 that the things that you love that you and I 0:10:35.156 --> 0:10:36.836 love and we listen to all the time, you know, 0:10:36.876 --> 0:10:41.756 if it's name anything, amazing. Whether it's beatles or whatever. 0:10:42.156 --> 0:10:45.036 You know, it's all really, at the end of the day, 0:10:45.236 --> 0:10:47.836 something that's made sort of of the spirit. It's made 0:10:48.436 --> 0:10:51.076 of the emotion. It's it's it's not it's not a 0:10:51.316 --> 0:10:53.916 it's not the result of um, a lot of sort 0:10:53.916 --> 0:10:57.156 of strategic kind of Um, well, if I sing it, 0:10:57.356 --> 0:11:00.436 you know this way here, Um, that'll have the right effect. No, 0:11:00.556 --> 0:11:02.436 that's not the way you approach it. It's a feeling 0:11:02.516 --> 0:11:05.236 that you're feeling and you're you're inside of that music. 0:11:05.276 --> 0:11:07.236 And I think, you know, Bert's music for me is 0:11:07.356 --> 0:11:09.356 very easy for me as a singer too, and habbit 0:11:09.436 --> 0:11:12.996 and to exhibit with a lot of natural feeling because 0:11:12.996 --> 0:11:15.796 I do feel those melodies and I do feel those sentiments. 0:11:15.836 --> 0:11:19.516 So there's not a lot of strategy behind it. I 0:11:19.556 --> 0:11:24.436 think that's you know, there may be strategy in arrangement 0:11:24.476 --> 0:11:26.756 and stuff like that, but when it comes to displaying 0:11:26.996 --> 0:11:31.156 or creating those moods, it's it's feeling. It's all about 0:11:31.236 --> 0:11:34.676 feeling and mood, and it's growing together as the song 0:11:35.596 --> 0:11:39.676 moves on. As the song moves on, and it takes 0:11:39.876 --> 0:11:46.596 shape and takes different turns, and it evolves from the 0:11:46.636 --> 0:11:49.836 five songs on the EP are there, Daniel is there? 0:11:49.956 --> 0:11:52.436 Can you take of a particular song or passage that 0:11:53.196 --> 0:11:57.076 may sound like a distinctive Burt backrack melody that you 0:11:57.196 --> 0:12:00.316 just love singing, or that you found easy to sing, 0:12:00.396 --> 0:12:03.316 or that you found really hard to sing. Well, they're 0:12:03.356 --> 0:12:05.916 all tough to sing because what you realize once you 0:12:05.956 --> 0:12:08.396 get behind the wheel on these things is that there's 0:12:09.276 --> 0:12:12.276 specific jumps, which I would imagine it's similar to when 0:12:12.316 --> 0:12:15.556 an orchestral musician has to play a passage that they've 0:12:15.596 --> 0:12:19.596 got to make a jump that's at a significant distance. 0:12:19.956 --> 0:12:23.236 On the chorus of Bells of Saint Augustine, for example, Um, 0:12:23.316 --> 0:12:26.076 there's a there's a jump there. It's not kind of 0:12:26.116 --> 0:12:29.236 and it's not swooping. It's a specific set of notes 0:12:29.276 --> 0:12:31.996 that that it's very fun to sing. But also if 0:12:32.076 --> 0:12:33.996 you're not in shape, you know, the muscles of the 0:12:34.036 --> 0:12:37.356 throat they've got to um, You've got to sort of 0:12:37.396 --> 0:12:39.836 stick the landing, you know, otherwise you kind of come 0:12:39.956 --> 0:12:43.676 off of a jump and you'll be flat. Really you 0:12:44.076 --> 0:12:46.516 is it? Do you remember the particular interval that it 0:12:46.676 --> 0:12:49.396 was so yeah on the chorus of bells of saying 0:12:49.636 --> 0:12:56.796 Saint Augustine, there's a there's a figure, uh uh, And 0:12:56.876 --> 0:12:59.876 I love singing that so much. Um it's a specific 0:12:59.916 --> 0:13:02.396 series of notes that it's very easy to skid off 0:13:03.036 --> 0:13:06.516 rails on that, especially on that bottom note. And um, 0:13:06.676 --> 0:13:08.636 so those are the challenges for me as a singer. 0:13:08.676 --> 0:13:11.836 You've got to like tighten tighten your control up a 0:13:11.836 --> 0:13:13.996 little bit so you can nail those notes, you know. 0:13:14.036 --> 0:13:16.396 And there's no auto tune on this project. And I 0:13:16.716 --> 0:13:20.196 told Ryan, our our wonderful engineer and mixer that, um, 0:13:20.236 --> 0:13:23.636 I really wanted to avoid any any tuning, any artificial 0:13:24.356 --> 0:13:27.076 um help and just really as a singer, I wanted 0:13:27.116 --> 0:13:29.836 to grow. I wanted to learn, you know, and get better. 0:13:29.956 --> 0:13:32.396 And a great way to get better as a singer 0:13:32.516 --> 0:13:35.716 is to sing some of Burt stuff, because there's no 0:13:35.996 --> 0:13:39.076 you can't really fake it, you know. Yeah, we'll be 0:13:39.116 --> 0:13:46.036 back after a quick break. We're back with Bruce's conversation 0:13:46.236 --> 0:13:49.956 with Bert and Daniel. So tell me about the first 0:13:50.116 --> 0:13:53.196 song you worked on from this great EP and and 0:13:53.236 --> 0:13:57.636 how it started. Yeah, I texted and Burt. I texted 0:13:57.716 --> 0:14:01.196 him basically some lyrics that I m was kind of 0:14:01.316 --> 0:14:04.436 tossing around, and um, I've never worked that way before 0:14:04.636 --> 0:14:06.916 with just sending a lyric to someone. That's a first 0:14:06.956 --> 0:14:11.316 for me. I'm usually um involved in people sitting together 0:14:11.356 --> 0:14:13.996 in a room with holding guitars and playing and stinging 0:14:14.036 --> 0:14:16.596 together and trying to come up with something silentaneously. But 0:14:16.596 --> 0:14:19.436 it was another aspect of this process that was great, 0:14:19.916 --> 0:14:22.756 different for me in a good way. And we've come 0:14:22.796 --> 0:14:26.156 a long way, Daniel, we have and Bert when you 0:14:26.236 --> 0:14:28.956 first got those lyrics, do you still do you still 0:14:28.996 --> 0:14:30.596 play every day or you try and get at the 0:14:30.596 --> 0:14:35.316 piano every day? Not every day? Hey, this has kept 0:14:37.156 --> 0:14:40.956 a life going for me, this whole process with Daniel, 0:14:41.596 --> 0:14:47.916 with the EP, with promoting it, with believing in it 0:14:49.036 --> 0:14:54.196 and writing new stuff, and a continuing process. We'll get 0:14:54.276 --> 0:14:58.236 two three more songs done and we'll do it remotely 0:14:58.836 --> 0:15:02.836 because that works. Yeah, we'll give the best of what 0:15:02.916 --> 0:15:05.676 we can do. I think you did some great direction 0:15:05.756 --> 0:15:08.876 on Blue Umbrella. I'll tell you something funny about recording 0:15:08.876 --> 0:15:11.436 that song. When we were recording that, we had figured 0:15:11.436 --> 0:15:13.596 it out and we were playing it, and then when 0:15:13.596 --> 0:15:18.636 we would go to the to um wonder where we 0:15:18.796 --> 0:15:21.036 go that part, and the drummer was like going to 0:15:21.076 --> 0:15:23.436 the ride symbol and every the band was sort of 0:15:23.476 --> 0:15:28.476 flourishing on that section. And Bert got on the talk 0:15:28.516 --> 0:15:30.716 back in the studio and he said, it sounds like 0:15:30.756 --> 0:15:33.916 everybody's like going to the chorus, and we all kind 0:15:33.956 --> 0:15:36.476 of looked at him, like what is he talking about? 0:15:36.596 --> 0:15:39.716 And then I started to understand about the way that 0:15:40.236 --> 0:15:45.916 you're interested in developing. I think things simmering a bit more, 0:15:46.116 --> 0:15:49.996 you know, and not kind of telegraphing. You're sort of okay, 0:15:50.036 --> 0:15:51.876 now we're in the section that everybody's supposed to like 0:15:52.236 --> 0:15:54.476 kind of feel like, Okay, now this is the point 0:15:54.476 --> 0:15:56.876 of the whole thing. But maybe instead of telegraphing what 0:15:56.916 --> 0:15:59.796 everybody should feel, it was more like, let them, let 0:15:59.796 --> 0:16:01.916 the notes and the chords do the heavy lifting, and 0:16:01.956 --> 0:16:05.076 just everybody just holds seavy. Man. That was such a lesson. 0:16:05.156 --> 0:16:09.396 That was so cool. Absolutely, I do like a kind 0:16:09.396 --> 0:16:14.276 of seamlessness if can be done that. Yeah, one goes 0:16:14.316 --> 0:16:20.956 into the other without an announcement. Trumpet's blaring. You know, now, Bert, 0:16:20.996 --> 0:16:25.356 had you worked from lyrics before? I know you used 0:16:25.396 --> 0:16:29.036 to often compose and then make up dummy lyrics and 0:16:29.076 --> 0:16:32.316 then how day that if someone else would provide lyrics? 0:16:32.316 --> 0:16:34.476 Did you ever have just a lyrics sheet? And you say, Okay, 0:16:34.516 --> 0:16:37.396 Now I got to create something from these lyrics. Yes, 0:16:38.556 --> 0:16:42.996 certainly did with Alphie because it had to depict what 0:16:43.076 --> 0:16:46.116 the movie was about, So Alphie that the words came 0:16:46.156 --> 0:16:50.996 in first, absolutely and one of the hardest sons because 0:16:51.036 --> 0:16:55.116 I wanted to make it perfect and it dominated my life. 0:16:55.316 --> 0:16:58.396 How long did it take you to write that? Three weeks? 0:16:58.436 --> 0:17:02.516 Three weeks? Yeah, I would go maybe go to theater 0:17:04.516 --> 0:17:08.356 to see a play, but I've been working on maybe 0:17:08.476 --> 0:17:13.436 the pimples in the song, and I wouldn't enjoy the play. 0:17:13.756 --> 0:17:17.676 I would wind up leaving the theater having solved nothing, 0:17:18.076 --> 0:17:22.796 solved nothing on Alfie and not enjoy the play. And 0:17:23.396 --> 0:17:27.156 everything on promises, promises. When we did the musical, all 0:17:27.276 --> 0:17:31.156 the words really that how I would have to come up. 0:17:31.596 --> 0:17:34.356 You could write a melody out of a Neil Simon 0:17:34.556 --> 0:17:39.516 script because the dialogue would go into a song and 0:17:40.116 --> 0:17:44.836 it didn't seem to fit to sit down and imagine 0:17:44.876 --> 0:17:47.956 what the song might be because you wanted to make it. Again, 0:17:48.276 --> 0:17:52.236 the seamless thing I'm talking about, go from the script 0:17:52.876 --> 0:17:58.476 the dialogue continues into song because it's just natural. Otherwise 0:17:58.716 --> 0:18:02.476 I can't conceive of it doing it another way. You know, 0:18:02.516 --> 0:18:04.916 A little bit what Danny was talking about, that that 0:18:04.996 --> 0:18:07.756 you didn't want people to feel the chorus too soon. 0:18:08.316 --> 0:18:10.476 It's a little care juristic of some of your songs. 0:18:10.476 --> 0:18:13.796 And Alphie's a good example where sometimes you're not quite 0:18:13.836 --> 0:18:16.436 sure where it's going, like it's got a lot of momentum, 0:18:16.516 --> 0:18:19.276 and then when it ends up because there's there's time 0:18:19.396 --> 0:18:24.596 changes and the harmonies complex. Well you see, yeah, see 0:18:24.596 --> 0:18:28.476 with Alphie that it just it took me to another 0:18:28.476 --> 0:18:31.716 place by having words and became an eight bar phrase, 0:18:32.236 --> 0:18:34.316 or it became a six bar phrase or a twelve 0:18:34.316 --> 0:18:39.316 barth praise just by where the lyric took me. Right, Wow, 0:18:40.716 --> 0:18:44.716 I like very much writing to Daniel's words if he 0:18:44.796 --> 0:18:47.076 sends me. I mean, I had this one phraise on 0:18:47.156 --> 0:18:55.116 Blue Umbrella, the hook the chorus. You know, are you 0:18:55.156 --> 0:18:58.796 still under the same blue umbrella? You know, the way 0:18:58.836 --> 0:19:01.556 you spaced it out, you added an extra bar, so 0:19:01.636 --> 0:19:06.996 it became are you still under the same blue umbrella? 0:19:08.236 --> 0:19:12.956 And it just a change like that, splitting the word 0:19:13.036 --> 0:19:15.156 instead of going how are you still under the same 0:19:15.196 --> 0:19:20.276 blue umbrella? And that drove the next four bars just 0:19:20.436 --> 0:19:24.956 by that space. Yeah, it continues to evolve, and you know, 0:19:25.076 --> 0:19:27.156 Bert thinks about these things a lot. You know, he 0:19:27.236 --> 0:19:29.556 spends a lot of time. Like I heard that. You know, 0:19:29.636 --> 0:19:35.156 Duke Gallington could write arrangements and orchestration in in in 0:19:35.196 --> 0:19:37.556 the midst middle of chaos with no piano. He could 0:19:37.556 --> 0:19:39.556 just take some paper out and write stuff. And Burt's 0:19:39.556 --> 0:19:41.876 the same way. He can sit down at his desk, 0:19:42.836 --> 0:19:46.676 no piano and just write orchestration. Um, just just write it, 0:19:46.796 --> 0:19:49.156 write down violent parts, write down all that stuff. It's 0:19:49.196 --> 0:19:52.756 wonderful to to to work with Bert and watch the 0:19:52.796 --> 0:19:56.396 way that the musical ideas take shape for him and 0:19:56.436 --> 0:19:59.316 be able to witness the process for Bert of how 0:20:00.036 --> 0:20:03.156 an initial seed or you know, of an idea can 0:20:03.316 --> 0:20:06.996 can expand in his mind. And what is involved as 0:20:07.036 --> 0:20:09.716 you're as you're building the structure of a song and 0:20:09.756 --> 0:20:12.756 a melody, what's involved for him? And what boxes does 0:20:12.796 --> 0:20:14.916 it have to tick? It's got to you know, he's 0:20:14.916 --> 0:20:17.076 got to see the whole length of it, the whole 0:20:17.116 --> 0:20:19.676 way all the way through. And then forgive me, Bert 0:20:19.716 --> 0:20:22.356 if I'm you know, telling your stories here for you, 0:20:22.396 --> 0:20:25.516 but right, but he's got to see the melody, the 0:20:25.556 --> 0:20:27.916 long line of the melody all the way through, and 0:20:27.956 --> 0:20:30.676 then we can start to navigate through there. But um, 0:20:30.916 --> 0:20:34.116 you know, the collaboration is so great because we say 0:20:34.236 --> 0:20:36.716 yes to each other. You know. Um, you know, he says, 0:20:36.796 --> 0:20:39.596 I don't think that the string should come in the 0:20:39.636 --> 0:20:42.556 first first chorus, and I, you know, I don't say no, man, 0:20:42.596 --> 0:20:45.116 we got to get him in there. And I just say, okay, Bert, 0:20:45.436 --> 0:20:49.276 that sounds great because I trust you, and he trusts 0:20:49.356 --> 0:20:52.836 my words and the simplicity of whatever it is that 0:20:52.876 --> 0:20:55.236 I'm trying to express with that. He trusts it. He 0:20:55.276 --> 0:20:57.116 doesn't say, hey, we don't need to be singing about 0:20:57.116 --> 0:21:01.916 that right now. So we trust each other and that's 0:21:01.916 --> 0:21:05.036 a beautiful thing. It is absolutely you know, we were 0:21:05.076 --> 0:21:07.836 talking about the feeling when you sit down in a 0:21:08.356 --> 0:21:11.516 movie theater and the lights go down and it's a 0:21:11.556 --> 0:21:15.116 Steven Spielberg film. You know that Stevens got got you. 0:21:15.236 --> 0:21:17.716 He's gonna, he's gonna take on that ride. There's a 0:21:17.756 --> 0:21:20.716 similar feeling with with your music. People you know, they 0:21:20.796 --> 0:21:24.516 know you're you're gonna You're gonna hold them um in 0:21:24.516 --> 0:21:26.436 in in the palm of your hand and carry them 0:21:26.436 --> 0:21:29.076 through that that song, with that that music tell me 0:21:29.116 --> 0:21:32.076 a little bit about whistling in the dark, about the 0:21:32.116 --> 0:21:36.476 writing of that. Yeah, well, well I was I'll just 0:21:36.516 --> 0:21:38.756 say real quickly about the lyric. I just wanted to 0:21:38.796 --> 0:21:41.276 make something. Um. I like the phrase whistling in the 0:21:41.356 --> 0:21:44.756 dark because it sounds like like somebody that's um going 0:21:44.756 --> 0:21:49.156 through something hard and and and they're kind of consoling 0:21:49.196 --> 0:21:52.556 themselves by sort of trying to create an atmosphere of lightness, 0:21:52.916 --> 0:21:56.836 you know, within themselves. And we wrote that song before 0:21:57.356 --> 0:22:00.476 you know, anybody knew anything about a pandemic or or 0:22:00.596 --> 0:22:04.596 or any of that kind of uh, hard hardship that 0:22:04.636 --> 0:22:06.916 was about to coccurse. So there's something about whistling in 0:22:06.916 --> 0:22:09.716 the dark that's like, I'm I'm feeling that song right 0:22:09.756 --> 0:22:12.436 now because I kind of have to take that song's 0:22:12.436 --> 0:22:15.516 advice and just keep your eyes on the horizon and 0:22:15.636 --> 0:22:17.036 keep your eyes on the light at the end of 0:22:17.036 --> 0:22:19.116 the tunnel, which you know it's going to come. It's 0:22:19.156 --> 0:22:22.156 just it's going to be a minute, you know. There 0:22:22.236 --> 0:22:25.236 was a hint of what was going I remember it 0:22:25.316 --> 0:22:28.556 was one of the last songs we wrote, and there 0:22:28.356 --> 0:22:33.716 was there was a sense of whistling in the dark. Yeah, 0:22:33.756 --> 0:22:36.916 I think that lonely so it was almost indicative of 0:22:37.516 --> 0:22:40.836 what was to come. Do you feel that, Daniel absolutely, 0:22:40.996 --> 0:22:43.676 and um, you know, whistling in the Dark is one 0:22:43.716 --> 0:22:46.436 of those examples of sometimes also you'll sing about something 0:22:46.476 --> 0:22:49.316 as a singer and songwriter and then you don't realize 0:22:49.316 --> 0:22:52.396 what you're singing about until later on it seems to 0:22:52.436 --> 0:22:55.356 take on, you know, more meaning or you realize, oh, 0:22:55.396 --> 0:22:58.276 I was really trying to process this thing that was 0:22:58.316 --> 0:23:00.476 happening in my life and that's a weird thing that 0:23:00.916 --> 0:23:03.116 I don't know if you can resonate with that bird, 0:23:03.196 --> 0:23:08.156 but um, I think so. I think because Uh, there's 0:23:08.196 --> 0:23:11.916 an element in that song, like the intro, which is 0:23:12.076 --> 0:23:18.236 very dissonant piano, and it's sort of like where did 0:23:18.276 --> 0:23:21.036 that come from? I wanted to ask you about it? 0:23:21.076 --> 0:23:25.116 Sounds a little like like felonious monk, almost like it's yeah, 0:23:25.156 --> 0:23:28.836 like it's falling apart a little bit right, and then 0:23:28.916 --> 0:23:35.596 the ending uh is uh also basically asking a question 0:23:35.636 --> 0:23:40.236 with the strings don't, don't, don't, don't, don't boat, don't, don't, 0:23:40.396 --> 0:23:44.956 don't don't You know where did that come from? Do 0:23:44.956 --> 0:23:47.916 you remember writing that that string part is beautiful and 0:23:48.516 --> 0:23:52.316 the description of it is asking a question is so interesting? 0:23:53.076 --> 0:23:55.796 Do you remember do you remember writing that bit what 0:23:55.836 --> 0:23:58.676 you were thinking or how it came to you. M 0:23:59.916 --> 0:24:04.756 I knew I wanted and and I got a definitely 0:24:04.836 --> 0:24:10.196 push from my partner here really, Daniel saying that thing 0:24:10.196 --> 0:24:14.156 you played on the piano dissonant, very kind of weird. 0:24:14.476 --> 0:24:17.076 I love it. So it starts that way and then 0:24:17.076 --> 0:24:20.796 it's in a very weird way to We'll be right 0:24:20.836 --> 0:24:27.756 back after this break. We're back with the rest of 0:24:27.796 --> 0:24:32.676 Bruce's conversation with Bert Bacharach and Daniel Tasher. The songs 0:24:32.716 --> 0:24:35.836 you're writing now, because most of these were started, you know, 0:24:35.876 --> 0:24:42.076 before coronavirus. What are the songs like now that you're writing, well, 0:24:43.036 --> 0:24:46.036 so different. Yeah. We were working on one of the songs, 0:24:46.076 --> 0:24:49.996 the newer songs, called twenty first Century Man, and it 0:24:50.076 --> 0:24:52.596