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Speaker 1: Joseph, have you ever heard the expression the power of

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Speaker 1: a pass?

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Speaker 2: Oh? No, I haven't really really what does this mean?

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Speaker 2: It's funny.

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Speaker 1: It comes up a lot, like I think, for like

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Speaker 1: people that are saying no to projects or opportunities. It

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's more powerful to say no or be a

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Speaker 1: no show than to actually accept something that's given to you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, got it, got it? Okay. I like that power

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Speaker 2: of the past, the power of the past. I have

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Speaker 2: passed on some things, so I do know what you mean.

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Speaker 1: What have you passed on?

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Speaker 2: You know, different opportunities that I don't care to speak

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Speaker 2: on or or regret. It just wasn't for me at

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Speaker 2: the time, Like I mean this, this is crazy. I

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Speaker 2: was asked to do someone's residency in Vegas and I

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Speaker 2: was just really I couldn't do it. It just the

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Speaker 2: person didn't really seem stable at the time, and so

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Speaker 2: I passed on it. And I'm really glad I did. See.

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Speaker 1: I love hearing that because most times I feel like

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Speaker 1: you passed because of like gut checks. You're like, huh,

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Speaker 1: you know what, something doesn't feel right about that. I'm

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Speaker 1: just not going to do it. And on September third,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three, Manna of All People were a

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Speaker 1: no show at the Grands. Well, okay, not one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent of no show, not one hundred percent of pass,

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Speaker 1: but like a ninety percent pass because Alex Gonzalez, the

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Speaker 1: drummer and his wife did actually show up.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the drummer's going to come through with your dervs.

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Speaker 2: Honey partied like a rock star. Now.

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Speaker 1: The group had one Best Rock Album by a duo

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Speaker 1: or group for their six studio album, two thousand and

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Speaker 1: two's Revolution More, an album that, while still sounding very

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Speaker 1: much like Mana, sought to revisit the formative sound and

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Speaker 1: spirit of the sixties and seventies.

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Speaker 2: Carlo Santana, who the band had played with on his

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Speaker 2: mega alternate album Supernatural, even jambed with them on the

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Speaker 2: opening track Housticia Tierra Ilbertad, and.

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Speaker 1: This track actually Sawmana at I think their most politically

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Speaker 1: vocal in years, invoking bunch of villa and emilianosab at

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Speaker 1: them and imploring respect for indigenous peoples and sympathy for migrants.

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Speaker 2: And they kept the conscious vibes up with Boba Juan,

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Speaker 2: a song for migrants lost to the System. Although per usual,

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Speaker 2: the love songs got the most play.

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Speaker 1: So days after the Grammys, frontman Farah Veda would say,

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Speaker 1: there are many more talented people than Mana who don't

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Speaker 1: win Grammys. I congratulate those who won and those who didn't.

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Speaker 1: The Beatles never won a Grammy, and they are the.

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Speaker 2: Greatest part though, like still Lana no Grammy.

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Speaker 1: I know. Listen, they don't get it right all the time.

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Speaker 1: Most of the time.

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Speaker 2: One might argue, we don't know.

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Speaker 1: But over the year that followed, Mana released a Greatest

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Speaker 1: Hits compilation and a DVD. Wait, seriously, do you remember DVDs?

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Speaker 2: Dude? I think no. I threw them away. I was

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Speaker 2: going to say I still have some, but you don't.

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Speaker 2: But I do not.

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Speaker 1: But he doesn't Anyway. Their DVD was of the Revolution

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Speaker 1: that mord World tour. Then they took a hiatus. No

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Speaker 1: one would hear from Mana in close to five years.

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Speaker 2: A blow for the fans and a sigh of relief

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Speaker 2: for the haters.

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Speaker 1: Listen, hater, no hate. The rock scene that Manna was

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Speaker 1: a product of, the same one that Fara gave the

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Speaker 1: nod to in his interview post Grammys.

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Speaker 2: It kept on a chicken, including artists that Mana had

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Speaker 2: played with time to see what our old boo Vampido

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Speaker 2: is up to.

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Speaker 1: Since his departure from the group in the mid nineties,

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Speaker 1: Cesa El Vambido Lopez and keyboardist Evan Gonzalez had been

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Speaker 1: keeping pretty busy. After leaving Mana, they returned to his

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Speaker 1: band asulio Leta.

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Speaker 2: The band was well like in Mexico, but struggled with

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Speaker 2: its LABELMI. Eventually, Vampido left joined another band.

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Speaker 1: Haguaas Haguadas was kind of a super group. They were

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Speaker 1: built from the pieces of another recently broken up band,

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Speaker 1: Guy Fans, the much beloved alternative rock group from Mexico City.

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Speaker 2: I love them. Howatas wouldn't reach the legendary status of

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Speaker 2: Guy Fans, but they did get some international airplay, and

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Speaker 2: the fans were still shouting.

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Speaker 1: Is there a T shirt that says that I feel

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Speaker 1: like you need it for the right anyway? The band

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Speaker 1: was nominated a number of times for Premiozo Nuestro, but

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Speaker 1: they never won. That's why it's easy to imagine that

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Speaker 1: when Ferro n Vera mentioned deserving bands that never won awards,

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Speaker 1: he was nodding to peers like this, but.

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Speaker 2: The scene wasn't nodding back.

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Speaker 1: Today, we're going to ride the mana Hate train for

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Speaker 1: just a couple more stops before we join the band

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Speaker 1: post Hiaus. I'm your host, Liliana Ooscaz.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Joseph Carrio, and this is becoming an i Con.

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Speaker 1: A weekly podcast where we give you the rundown on

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Speaker 1: how today's most famous Latin v stars have shaped pop culture.

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Speaker 2: And given the world some extra level.

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Speaker 1: Sit back and get comfortable.

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Speaker 2: Because we are going in the only way we know how,

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Speaker 2: with when unassas.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of opinions as we relive their greatest

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Speaker 1: achievements on our journey to find out what makes them

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Speaker 1: so iconic. Before we get into it, Joseph, I think

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Speaker 1: it's time to play a little game.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Jigsaw, what you got.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to read the name of an artist, Okay,

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Speaker 1: and then you're gonna tell me if, by your Joseph

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Speaker 1: Carrio rock standards, Okay, they're actually rock or not?

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Speaker 2: Right? Okay, hold on, but are they going to be

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Speaker 2: like weird kind two things that I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Listen if you answer who that is? Okay as well?

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Speaker 2: All right, Okay, I'm nervous.

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Speaker 1: Okay, rock or not the Police, Rock, the Red Hot

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Speaker 1: Chili Peppers, Rock, Cold Play, No Jon Jet and the

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Speaker 1: Black Hearts.

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Speaker 2: I don't know who that is, but I'm gonna say

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Speaker 2: yes because I've heard of Jone Jet and I feel

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Speaker 2: like people from the seventies.

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Speaker 1: Liked her and that was rock okay, ac DC, Rock, Fleetwood,

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Speaker 1: Mac Soft Rock Okay. Now Miley Cyrus during her Plastic

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Speaker 1: Hearts era, I Hate you Pop Rock Okay, Toto.

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Speaker 2: The Little Dog, Olivia Rodrigo. Olivia Rodrigo is kind of

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Speaker 2: like what would aleanis Morrisett be Now, should alternative rock

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Speaker 2: alternative pop? Or would that be like? I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but yes, she's rock because she plays the electric guitar,

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Speaker 2: and I associate that with rock.

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Speaker 1: Okay, listen, I love your reasoning. So electric guitar is

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Speaker 1: the common thread to all of these You hear an

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Speaker 1: electric guitar when you think of these bands?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I love yours. You know what.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm going to call up Domas Mier and be like,

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Speaker 1: Joseph needs a job at Rolling Stone, you know, because

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Speaker 1: his criteria for rock or not needs to be a

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Speaker 1: whole entire section of the magazine is true, our friend,

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Speaker 1: So to bring it back to Mana way way back

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Who I mean?

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Speaker 1: Okay, fine, I get you. It is a year that

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Speaker 1: we do not talk about. Okay, we have forgotten it,

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Speaker 1: but that being said. In twenty twenty, Netflix release a

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Speaker 1: documentary called Break It All The History of Rock in

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Speaker 1: Latin America, and it traces the long lineage of Latin

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Speaker 1: rock from Richie Valens lab Bamba all the way through

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Speaker 1: rock music's underground role during dictatorships throughout South America and

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Speaker 1: then taking it to rock and Bligioma eighties and beyond.

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Speaker 2: And when the documentary counted Manah among the all stars

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Speaker 2: of Latin rock, the internet they had something to say.

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Speaker 1: The hashtags for the doc were flooded with tweets and

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Speaker 1: Instagram posts that insisted Mana nos rock. Many of the

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Speaker 1: posts outright mocked the documentary, and plenty criticized it for

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Speaker 1: giving Mana a bigger spotlight than other artists.

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Speaker 2: Especially bands like I Find This, whom the posters held

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Speaker 2: up as the real ogs with an influence on the

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Speaker 2: culture that Mana could never claim.

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Speaker 1: Mana, they argued, was a little bit more pop than rock,

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Speaker 1: just like Mana's success didn't happen overnight. This conversation didn't

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Speaker 1: suddenly start up because of a Netflix documentary.

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Speaker 2: It is no fun being late toward beef, and Netflix

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Speaker 2: was decades late. This goes back all the way to Mana's.

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Speaker 1: Heyday in the early mid nineties, when Mana was sailing

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Speaker 1: into the mainstream with Rayandolsol, the rock scene in Mexico

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Speaker 1: was consolidating into two camps. You had groups like Tifonis,

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Speaker 1: instrumentally driven yet melodic, maybe even prog rock esque, but

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Speaker 1: still a very far cry from the pop that dominated

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Speaker 1: Mexican radio.

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Speaker 2: Then you had the boys who kept it nasty nasty girl,

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Speaker 2: like the Bodio rockers, who were loud, rowdy, and often political.

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Speaker 1: There's a bit of prog rock versus punt rock, hair

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Speaker 1: metal versus grunge thing happening here, and the gen uxters

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Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: But whichever camp you fell into, one thing was for sure.

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Speaker 2: Mana's name stays out your mouth unless you're throwing shape.

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Speaker 1: It would be like wearing your cold Plate T shirt

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Speaker 1: to a nine inch nail show like that is not

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Speaker 1: gonna fly.

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Speaker 2: Or wearing Emerged to Nixtena show during the Stripped tour.

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Speaker 1: Yeah No, We're not doing that, and Mana was at

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Speaker 1: best considered rock that was inoffensive enough for your parents

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Speaker 1: to actually let you listen to them.

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Speaker 2: And at worst, Mana was rock Fressa, which is rock

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Speaker 2: for rich Normy's aka Fressa's, which is to say, it's

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Speaker 2: kind of not really rock at all.

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Speaker 1: Case in point, Joseph's favorite band, the Barrio rockers Molotov

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Speaker 1: released an album titled Donde hug on las ninyas where

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Speaker 1: will the Girls Play, in a parody of Manna's Breakout.

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Speaker 2: The cover is a classic nineties edgeword ick featuring a

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Speaker 2: schoolgirl laying back in a car seat with her panties

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Speaker 2: around pernis.

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Speaker 1: I mean, seriously, tell me you're in a band full

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Speaker 1: of straight boys, not men boys without telling me you're

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Speaker 1: in a band full of straight boys, Like what the

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Speaker 1: fuck is that?

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Speaker 2: Hey? Straight boys? Are you guys? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Taste aside, though, what this represents is clear. In the

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Speaker 1: og days of Latin rock, you risk life and limb

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Speaker 1: for the music. Playing the music was a transgression, so

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Speaker 1: the music itself should be transgressive.

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Speaker 2: Okay, rock is rebellion, so it should sound that way.

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Speaker 1: Or at least that's how so many in the rock

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Speaker 1: scene saw it. Here's the thing about rock versus soft rock,

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Speaker 1: versus alt rock, versus pop rock. You can apply the

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Speaker 1: same argument to pretty much every single genre of music, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: is it like gangster rap or is it hip hop?

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Speaker 1: Is it reggaeton or is it salsa or is it

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Speaker 1: salsa romantica? Like just be inclusive.

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Speaker 2: Right Well, Also, I kind of feel like this is

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Speaker 2: where someone like a bad Bunny comes in right where

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Speaker 2: you know, you just change sound altogether.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think what to me, the tipping point for

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Speaker 1: whether something gets classified as like the quote unquote harder

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Speaker 1: genre has nothing to do with the sound, has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with the music. It has to do with

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Speaker 1: how commercial and how financially fruitful said band is. Because

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Speaker 1: let's be honest, at a certain point, you can be

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Speaker 1: the hardest rocker in the world, but if you are

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Speaker 1: flying on private jets and staying at the Four Seasons,

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Speaker 1: a little bit of your heart does go away. So

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Speaker 1: I do think that a lot of these distinctions between

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Speaker 1: like underground and like progressive rock and like all of

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Speaker 1: that changes when things become more commercial. It's part of

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Speaker 1: the commercialization of music.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing now that I have had an

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Speaker 2: herbal refreshment, and I'm thinking, I just I wonder if genres,

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Speaker 2: like you know, how it's like, what's harder, what's this,

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Speaker 2: what's hip hop, what's whatever? It's like? Can't we just

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Speaker 2: relate the instruments to be that one thing, like going

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Speaker 2: back to a guitar, how I relate rock? Like, what

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Speaker 2: does it matter? Off long is if it has these

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Speaker 2: three or four instruments, wouldn't make it that whether it's

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Speaker 2: mean stream or not. Just curious.

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Speaker 1: I totally understand what you're saying, But I think no,

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Speaker 1: because I think think about so many different types of music, Like,

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Speaker 1: for example, like if country music is using an accordion, right,

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Speaker 1: that's country music with an accordion, But so is like

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Speaker 1: all the Northenol bands that we talked about, So is

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Speaker 1: it all country? I think what happens is music and

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Speaker 1: instruments make a sound. All of those sounds and how

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Speaker 1: they're assembled becomes I think, more of the music and

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Speaker 1: less about the instrument. So I think it's people have

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Speaker 1: a problem when things go too commercial. They want to

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Speaker 1: be haters, and then they're like, oh, you're not rock enough,

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Speaker 1: you're not reggaeton enough, you're not hip hop enough, but

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Speaker 1: at the core they are. And most of these bands

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Speaker 1: that we've covered had to really like fight their way

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Speaker 1: up the music food change. So there's nothing more hardcore

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Speaker 1: than that. When you're playing at a bar for like tips,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty hardcore and I'm going to get arrested for

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Speaker 1: it exactly. Anyway, point is with any pop culture debate,

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Speaker 1: the shit gets messy, right, it's a little schoolyard ish

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Speaker 1: and it's hard to draw straight lines.

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Speaker 2: I mean, really, how many online arguments are just cafeteria

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Speaker 2: fights that someone decided to post.

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Speaker 1: About Exactly what a genre represents and what its artists

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Speaker 1: stand for don't always have to line up with how

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Speaker 1: the genre.

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Speaker 2: Sounds, okay? And what does Manas stand for? Well, we'll

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Speaker 2: get into it.

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Speaker 1: The world had not heard from Mana since they took

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Speaker 1: their final bow on the Revolution the More tour in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three.

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Speaker 2: Unbeknownst to the general public, however, they had been writing

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Speaker 2: new materials since as early as two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: In an interview, Pharaoh Veda compared Mana's time in the

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Speaker 1: limelight as a bullet train, hundreds of shows in more

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Speaker 1: than forty countries.

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Speaker 2: Not to mention Revolving Dora bandmates.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I just watched the Bullet Train movie.

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Speaker 2: Did you? I don't know or okay?

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Speaker 1: Anyway, point is it was exhausting but fun and you

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Speaker 1: want to do nothing afterwards.

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Speaker 2: Got it?

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Speaker 1: Unlike Mana, who wrote about sixty songs in the years

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Speaker 1: spanning between Revolution and their follow up Amar Escombatier to

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Speaker 1: love is to Battle.

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Speaker 2: And Mana switched it up, y'all. Instead of a love song,

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Speaker 2: the lead single was about infidelity, Escandalo and pitch.

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Speaker 1: I know all about that shit, not just infidelity but

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Speaker 1: sliding into someone else's DMS in two thousand and six.

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Speaker 2: When I tell you, I know all about that trust.

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Speaker 2: So anyway. In an interview, Orvetta revealed that Labios Comparatidos

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Speaker 2: was inspired first by a friend who was cheated on

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Speaker 2: before Olvera himself got played, ending an eight month relationship

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Speaker 2: and discovering his partner had a side keys dude.

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Speaker 1: Quote the internet chat text messages, you can be in

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Speaker 1: any country and chat with a girl from the other

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Speaker 1: side of the world.

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Speaker 2: Bonacito doesn't even know about liking another girl's Instagram post yet.

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Speaker 1: Too real, and so was Labius Comparatidos, which sat at

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Speaker 1: the top of Latin radio charts for eight straight weeks.

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Speaker 2: Amadis Kumbaratid reached number four on the Billboard Top two

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Speaker 2: hundred Albums in the US at the time, the highest

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Speaker 2: charting Spanish language release in the US, surpassed only by

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Speaker 2: Shaquida's Picasti and Oral Volume one that same year, coming.

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Speaker 1: In second place after Shaki is an honor anyone should

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Speaker 1: be thankful for and to support the album Mana I'm

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Speaker 1: barked on their biggest tour yet, not in terms of

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Speaker 1: show dates but production size.

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Speaker 2: More than sixty tons of equipment, which look is probably

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Speaker 2: nothing compared to the Renaissance World Tour, but you gotta

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Speaker 2: hand it to Mana.

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Speaker 1: The world was ready to welcome Manna back with open arms.

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Speaker 1: The enterk of the crowd over one hundred and sixteen

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Speaker 1: shows shocked the band night after night over the course

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Speaker 1: of a year and a half.

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Speaker 2: Since then, the band's popularity and esteem has only grown

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Speaker 2: with the twenty eleven albums Dramailus and twenty fifteens Gama

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Speaker 2: and Sendida. The first saw a Mana that was willing

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Speaker 2: to experiment with different sounds.

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Speaker 1: Well the second saw the band finally putting the sounds

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Speaker 1: of the Latin rock scene in the foreground and closing

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Speaker 1: the record with their most political message yet, a cover

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Speaker 1: of Los Diigres del Norte somos mass Americanos.

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Speaker 2: Do you know? Prussella frontera la frontera mecruso.

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Speaker 1: But this wasn't the only time Manna has tried to

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Speaker 1: affect change in the world. In the twenty tens, Mana

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Speaker 1: had become a bit more politically vocal, but that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean they didn't try to use their platform for good

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Speaker 1: before then.

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Speaker 2: The environmental anthem VVT seen idea from nineteen ninety two

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Speaker 2: is fat More was kind of like a public promise

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Speaker 2: to the environmentalists, because four years later the bands put

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Speaker 2: their money where their mouth was.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety six, Manna launch the Selva Negra Ecological Foundation,

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Speaker 1: an environmental organization dedicated to protecting endangered species, restoring ecosystems,

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Speaker 1: and promoting environmental education.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Since its launch, Selba Negata has supported the sea

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Speaker 2: turtle population by incubating and releasing eight million tortugas.

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Speaker 1: They've also blanded more than eight hundred thousand trees, an

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Speaker 1: extensive work to preserve Mexican forests and work to foster

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Speaker 1: climate change education in Mexico.

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Speaker 2: But they're not just looking after turtles and trees. The

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Speaker 2: foundation also provides support to immigrant communities in the US

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Speaker 2: and Latin America.

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Speaker 1: Olvera says we don't see the planet as a country,

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Speaker 1: see it as a single territory.

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Speaker 2: But speaking of territory, venoor Veda also came out in

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Speaker 2: support of Puerto Rican independence in two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 1: And the same year the band criticized Mexico's poor sex

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Speaker 1: education and contraceptive access. Around the same time, the band

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Speaker 1: met with then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to share

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Speaker 1: their perspective on immigration. But the cause that's perhaps closest

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Speaker 1: to lead vocalist fair Old Vetta's heart might be the

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Speaker 1: one we haven't mentioned.

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Speaker 2: While awards may not be a priority for Mana, in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, the band did show up to receive

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Speaker 2: the Icon Award at the twenty twenty one Billboard Latin

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Speaker 2: Music Awards.

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Speaker 1: The band thanked their fans for thirty five years of

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Speaker 1: support before performing on a candle at stage for an

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Speaker 1: acoustic take on elre Lo Hukul.

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Speaker 2: Joining them with a twelve year old's vocalist named Mabel.

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Speaker 2: Shortly before the Billboard Awards, the band had appeared with

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Speaker 2: Mabel for an artist panel honoring single mothers.

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Speaker 1: Fair and Mabel shared something in common. Both were raised

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Speaker 1: by single moms. At the age of seven, Fair's father

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Speaker 1: passed away. El re Locuku is reflection on what it's

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Speaker 1: like to grow up in his absence.

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Speaker 2: After Mabel one is singing competition in Mexico, Fer pulled

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Speaker 2: up Carlo Santana and invited her to perform the song

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Speaker 2: with Manat at the upcoming awards ceremony.

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Speaker 1: Fair would say, when you see your mom working every day,

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Speaker 1: working very hard, it sets an example set obdam It's

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Speaker 1: the best example more than school of what makes you strong,

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Speaker 1: hardworking and a fighter live and I think that feeds art.

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Speaker 2: Their performance with Mabel shows one thing that rockers of

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Speaker 2: all stripes can rally around, hope for the next generation.

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Speaker 1: Mana began their career playing in cebee bars, where their

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Speaker 1: shows would routinely be interrupted by the police, and both

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Speaker 1: the motive and the goal of those crackdowns was fear.

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Speaker 2: The authorities were afraid that young people can make change happen,

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Speaker 2: so they try to make young people too afraid to.

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Speaker 1: Try Now might not melt your face with power cords

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Speaker 1: or send anyone's parents into a satanic panic, but their

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Speaker 1: success is proof that the authorities are right about one thing,

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Speaker 1: that a group of young people can change the world.

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Speaker 1: On the next, Becoming an Icon Mexico's Mariachi Man's man

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Speaker 1: e Is Chadro De Wentitan, Vicente Fernands. Becoming an Icon

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Speaker 1: is presented by Sonoo and Iheart's Michael Duda podcast network.

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Speaker 1: Listen to Becoming an Icon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.