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Speaker 1: Rivals as a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan, and today we're gonna talk about Britney Spears

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Speaker 1: versus Christina Aguilera and I gotta say, as a millennial,

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Speaker 1: this is probably the biggest pop rivalry of our time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, at least the side of In Sync and

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Speaker 1: Backstreet Boys. This is Coke versus PEPSI Literally they were

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Speaker 1: the competing poke spokespeople. This is Windows versus McIntosh. This

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Speaker 1: is Toma Gotchi versus Nano Baby. This is the big one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, it truly is the Beatles versus Stones of

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Speaker 1: late nineties teen pop divas. In in in this scenario,

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Speaker 1: Brittany is the Beatles. You know, she became a big

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Speaker 1: star first, she was more wholesome and I think she

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Speaker 1: ultimately set the pace for the rivalry. Christina, meanwhile, was

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Speaker 1: the Stones. You know, she was the naughty one, especially

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Speaker 1: when she decided to become ex Na during the Dirty era.

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Speaker 1: That was pretty wild. Yeah, I have to say I always,

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Speaker 1: at the time at least pretended to like Christina more

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Speaker 1: because she always kind of seemed more like the underdog

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Speaker 1: to me, and I thought if I said that I

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Speaker 1: liked her more, that would make me appear more interesting, which,

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Speaker 1: you know, shockingly this this failed to occur. But I

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Speaker 1: definitely thought she had the much stronger voice, And when

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Speaker 1: I first heard what a Girl Wants Like, I really

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Speaker 1: thought she was going to kind of go down the

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Speaker 1: Mariah carry R and B route and be her own thing. More,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really see her much as being pitted against Brittany,

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Speaker 1: despite the obvious you know, blonde pop comparisons. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you gotta say Britney's magnetism is just undeniable. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's Brittany bitch. I consider myself less to grow up

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Speaker 1: at a time when they both roamed the floors of

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Speaker 1: t RL. Yeah, it really is a fascinating contrast. You know,

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Speaker 1: Christina does have the more conventionally powerful voice. You can

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Speaker 1: slot her in that Whitney Houston Mariah carry Diva lineage

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Speaker 1: a lot more comfortably than Brittany. But Brittany, to me,

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Speaker 1: is the more distinctive stylist. You know, her voice not

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Speaker 1: be especially strong, especially compared with Christina Aguilera, but her

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Speaker 1: phrasing is so unique. I mean, anyone who's ever heard

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Speaker 1: Britney Spears can probably do a Britney Spears impression. I

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Speaker 1: mean she's like Bob Dylan in that way. Uh Am,

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Speaker 1: I the first person to compare Britney Spears to Bob Dylan,

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Speaker 1: by the way, that is that is up there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know that this This is such a fascinating rivalry.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited we're doing this because I think that

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Speaker 1: there's so much to learn, because you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: think there was a lot to learn from Backstreet versus

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Speaker 1: in Sync, other than maybe don't sign a contract with

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Speaker 1: Lou Pearlman. But on this side, I think there's an

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Speaker 1: awful lot to learn here because it says so much

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Speaker 1: about how we view women in our culture, how we

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Speaker 1: discuss addiction and mental health, and just the challenges of

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Speaker 1: fame and the digital age. And I think that both

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Speaker 1: Christina and Brittany are sort of held up now with

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Speaker 1: survivors of pretty much the worst treatment that I can

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Speaker 1: think of that the media can dish out, and they

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Speaker 1: made it out the other side, and I think it

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Speaker 1: gives them a lot more significance than I ever would

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Speaker 1: have imagined in the nineties. Yeah, I mean, they're both

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Speaker 1: like relatively young still, but they've been through so much

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Speaker 1: in their lives already at this point. But as you said,

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Speaker 1: they are both survivors and we are here to salute them.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's get into this mess. So

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Speaker 1: to get to the heart of this feud, you have

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Speaker 1: to throw it all the way back to the all

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Speaker 1: New Mickey Mouse Club, and the show still blows me

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Speaker 1: away as just such an insane talent pole. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you had J. C. Chaze, you had Carrie Russell, you

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Speaker 1: had Ryan Gosling, you had Justin Timberlake, and of course

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Speaker 1: Brittany and Christina. And it's interesting because in interviews with

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Speaker 1: the show's producers years later, they would say that they

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Speaker 1: got Christina chiefly because of her incredible voice, which was

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Speaker 1: pretty much fully formed at that point, even though she

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Speaker 1: was like what twelve thirteen, The producers were described watching

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Speaker 1: her sing as almost like witnessing something divine, so she

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Speaker 1: was she was full ex tena at that age. Um.

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Speaker 1: And they hired Brittany mostly for her dance moves, which

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Speaker 1: they didn't think her singing was very strong, which is

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Speaker 1: weird because when you watch all those early early clips

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Speaker 1: of Brittany is like an eight nine ten year old

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Speaker 1: on Star Search and even some Mickey Mouse Club clips,

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Speaker 1: you can hear that she has a really strong voice.

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Speaker 1: It's it's interesting because it's unusual. It's really really deep

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Speaker 1: for a little girl. And they're all these conspiracy theories

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Speaker 1: about how Jive Records forced her to sing in this

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Speaker 1: sort of high pitched baby with a head cold voice

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Speaker 1: and it messed up her actual singing voice, which was

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Speaker 1: actually quite low, almost like Share or something or Miley Cyrus.

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Speaker 1: So some would say that her like you know, as

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Speaker 1: you said, a really distinctive vocal stylings is what made

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Speaker 1: her a star. Others would say it kind of came

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Speaker 1: at the cost of damaging her natural gifts. Whatever the case,

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Speaker 1: she had it in her heart to be a singer,

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Speaker 1: and being cast as kind of a second stringer to

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Speaker 1: to Christina in this regard must have been really devastating

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Speaker 1: for and yet at the same time, Britney spears. Even

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Speaker 1: though maybe she wasn't considered as good as a singer

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Speaker 1: as Christina Aguilera, she was already I think the bigger

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Speaker 1: star at this time and It's fascinating when you go

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Speaker 1: through all the episodes that we've had on this show,

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Speaker 1: because often when you have rivals that knew each other

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Speaker 1: there when they were children, the dynamics that existed later

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Speaker 1: on in their relationship were there from the beginning. And

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Speaker 1: I think that with Christina and Britney Spears, there is

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Speaker 1: this dynamic of Brittany coming first and having more success

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Speaker 1: and Christina always sort of legging behind and aiming for her,

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Speaker 1: as you said before, being the underdog. And not only

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Speaker 1: that did that exist professionally on The Mickey Mouse Club,

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Speaker 1: but also personally, Like this came out years later, but

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Speaker 1: apparently Christina Aguilera had a thing for Justin Timberlake at

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Speaker 1: this time, and of course j T and Britney Spears

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Speaker 1: already had their thing going on, So Christina was looking

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Speaker 1: at Brittany sort of maybe pining for her status on

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Speaker 1: the show, but also pining for what she had with

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Speaker 1: Justin Timberlake. By the way, just a quicksidebar, we need

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Speaker 1: to do a Britney Spears versus Justin Timberlake episode at

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Speaker 1: some point. Oh my god, you know, just the picture

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Speaker 1: of them like in the Denham tuxedos you know, like

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Speaker 1: that photo. I just want to talk about that for

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Speaker 1: an hour, but that will definitely be a good episode.

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Speaker 1: But setting that aside again, I think we can see

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Speaker 1: that the dynamics that we're going to see play out

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Speaker 1: in this rivalry between Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera, it

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Speaker 1: existed even back at the Mickey Mouse Club And just

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Speaker 1: another side by. The interesting thing is, I think Ryan

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Speaker 1: Gosling also had a big crush on Brittany. So imagine

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Speaker 1: if Ryan dated Brittany Christina dated Justin Timberlake, the whole

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Speaker 1: history of pop music in the early adds could have

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Speaker 1: been completely different. It's like such history I think would

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Speaker 1: be different. You know, we would be having flying cars now,

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Speaker 1: there would be you know, a cure for coronavirus. All

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Speaker 1: of the problems that we have. I think would have

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Speaker 1: been solved if fate had taken that direction, But unfortunately

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Speaker 1: it didn't. Know this is that that is quite a

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Speaker 1: butterfly theory that I never considered until right now. But

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Speaker 1: unfortunately we're stuck in this reality. And after The Mickey

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Speaker 1: Mouse Club ends, Brittany goes back to this sort of

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Speaker 1: semi normal life. She attends this, uh, this religious private

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Speaker 1: school in Mississippi. She was a talks with Luke Pearlman

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Speaker 1: to join his girl group Innocence, but that fell through,

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Speaker 1: which was probably for the best after everything we know

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Speaker 1: about Lou and Brittany, though it's hard to imagine now,

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Speaker 1: had a hard time getting a deal because this was

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Speaker 1: the era of the Spice Girls and in Sync and

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Speaker 1: Backstreet Boys, and label chiefs thought that bands were actually

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Speaker 1: much easier sell than solo acts. So eventually Brittany gets

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Speaker 1: an audition with Jive Records and she blew them away

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Speaker 1: with cover of Whitney Houston's I Have Nothing, which again

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Speaker 1: is an indication of the kind of stuff that she

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Speaker 1: liked to sing at that time, and they loved it.

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Speaker 1: They signed her. They flew to Sweden in the spring

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Speaker 1: of record her debut album with producers Max Martin Dennis Pop,

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Speaker 1: who are probably the biggest pop architects of the last

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Speaker 1: twenty five years maybe uh. And the result was Baby

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Speaker 1: One More Time, which was a phenomenon pretty much from

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Speaker 1: the moment. It was released in January and it was

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Speaker 1: the biggest selling album ever by a teenage artist, debuted

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Speaker 1: at number one on the charts, went double platinum in

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Speaker 1: two months and then later on went Diamond and this

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Speaker 1: is mostly on the strength of the album's lead single,

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Speaker 1: Baby One More Time, which came up the prior fall,

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Speaker 1: and it was initially offered to both the Backstreet Boys

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Speaker 1: and TLC, but they both turned it down because they

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Speaker 1: were worried about the title seeming like a condoned violence.

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Speaker 1: So that's, you know, another interesting offshoot of pop history

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Speaker 1: right there. And the song is just one of the

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Speaker 1: greatest pop songs ever written. And of course it's given

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Speaker 1: a boost by this video. And Jive initially wanted to

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Speaker 1: have an animated video and Brittany rejected it. She wanted

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Speaker 1: to be something that she thought her young fans could

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Speaker 1: relate to, so she wanted to set in a school,

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Speaker 1: and the videos actually filmed in the school that they

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Speaker 1: filmed Greece in and uh during wardrobe fitting, they initially

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Speaker 1: had her in jeans and a T shirt, and it

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Speaker 1: was apparently her idea to go with I guess her

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Speaker 1: actual school, but not her actual school uniform, but with

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Speaker 1: a Catholic school uniform like the type she wore back

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Speaker 1: home in Mississippi, And of course that became one of

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Speaker 1: the most iconic music video moments. Ever, I'd say top five,

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Speaker 1: top three, definitely up there at least for my Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's such an iconic image of her in school girl outfit.

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Speaker 1: And this is all to the beginning of this weird

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Speaker 1: dissonance that exists with Britney Spears because on one hand,

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Speaker 1: and you watch that video and she's a beautiful young

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Speaker 1: woman wearing a schoolgirl's outfit, and look, that's an archetype

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Speaker 1: that is very heavily weighted in our culture. Uh, let's

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Speaker 1: just say that it's associated with certain forms of erotic

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Speaker 1: cinema going on for decades, you know, So when people

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Speaker 1: see her in that outfit, it's not just oh, this

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Speaker 1: is like a cool music video. It comes with this

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Speaker 1: history that an audience is bringing to it and projecting

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Speaker 1: onto her. And not only does this proved to be popular,

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Speaker 1: of course, with teenagers at the time, but it's also

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Speaker 1: popular with the middle aged male population of the country.

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Speaker 1: Very unseemly sort of dimension of her fandom. But it's

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Speaker 1: undeniable that that was part of her appeal and it

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Speaker 1: also made her a very controversial figure in her time.

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Speaker 1: So she has that element of her persona, but then

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Speaker 1: she has this other element that when she does interviews,

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Speaker 1: she's very guileless about her sexuality. When when reporters ask her,

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Speaker 1: you know, are you sexually provocative in your videos? Like

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Speaker 1: why is this something that you're pursuing in your music,

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Speaker 1: she would always act very coy about it and basically say,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm just wearing

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Speaker 1: these cool clothes that I like. There's nothing unseemly about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm just a nice Southern Christian girl who is a

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Speaker 1: virgin and I'm going to save myself for marriage. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we're going to talk about Madonna later because

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Speaker 1: I think Madonna is an important figure in both of

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Speaker 1: their careers, and of course she actually makes an appearance

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Speaker 1: at a very important juncture for both Brittany and Christina.

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Speaker 1: But when we talk about Madonna, you know, she was

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Speaker 1: someone who was always very deliberate about the sexual provocation

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Speaker 1: of her music and her persona, and she welcomed the

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Speaker 1: intellectual element of that and people analyzing the subtext of

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Speaker 1: her music, videos and her music. Britney Spears did not,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, she would not entertain any sort of

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Speaker 1: subtextual analysis of what she was doing. She would deny

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Speaker 1: that there was anything provocative really about her videos. So

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Speaker 1: again there's this like weird dissonance where she's playing with

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Speaker 1: these archetypes that are very heavily weighted in our culture,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time she's acting innocent, and it's

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Speaker 1: hard to know sometimes, like to what degree she's sincere

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Speaker 1: about this. I wonder if it is ultimately a reflection

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Speaker 1: of Britney Spears, maybe not being in total control of

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Speaker 1: her image and career, which is going to be something

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Speaker 1: that we see manifest itself later on in her life. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's so tough to tell because I mean, on one hand,

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Speaker 1: some of the reports I've read was things that like

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Speaker 1: oh the Baby One More Time video was her idea,

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Speaker 1: and like the famous Rolling Stone cover when she's on

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Speaker 1: the bed with the teletubby with the the David le

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Speaker 1: Chappelle shot was supposedly her idea too, So it's difficult

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Speaker 1: to tell, you know, who was in control of that.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, her her responses and interviews are basically always like, well,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean, I'm just being myself, which is

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Speaker 1: such an incredible neutral answer because you can still continue

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Speaker 1: to project whatever you want onto it. You can by

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Speaker 1: by saying, you know, I'm a good Southern girl, and

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna save myself for marriage. I mean, she

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Speaker 1: was a paragon of sort of nineties Southern values. But

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Speaker 1: you're right, there was this whole other side there that, um,

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Speaker 1: that was pretty hard to deny. And and the the

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Speaker 1: distance is really funny. I mean, there was an article

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Speaker 1: in two thousand one where she's described in the same article,

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Speaker 1: i think, in the same paragraph as America's reigning taboo

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Speaker 1: temptress and a couple of lines later America's most famous

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Speaker 1: virgin in the same graph. So yeah, it's very interesting

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Speaker 1: because by teasing sex but still saying all the you know,

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Speaker 1: in quotes right things to pass for conventional morality in

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Speaker 1: nineties America, I think she succeeded in appealing, as you said,

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Speaker 1: to kind of everyone she was. Yeah, I mean, really

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Speaker 1: it could be like her genius. She was ambiguous like that,

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Speaker 1: that she could play both sides of the fence and

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Speaker 1: you know, in some respects be this wholesome pop star,

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Speaker 1: but on the other hand, also be as they said,

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Speaker 1: a taboo temptress whatever that means. Um. What I think

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Speaker 1: is interesting in terms of her rivalry with Christina Aguileray

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Speaker 1: and we're going to see this is that I think

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Speaker 1: Christina was much more deliberate about her persona and her image,

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Speaker 1: and like the coyness that Britney Spears had does not

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Speaker 1: exist with Christina Aguileria and uh, to me, in a way,

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Speaker 1: that's like closer to like the Madonna model the Britney

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Speaker 1: Spears was, although in a way Britney Spears was more

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Speaker 1: successful at becoming the next Madonna. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: a lot to parse here, right, I mean, by subverting

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Speaker 1: maybe the Madonna's archetype in her own unique way, maybe

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Speaker 1: that that did help, especially for the era she was in. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So Britney Spears in early is absolutely huge. Where does

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Speaker 1: this leave Christina? After the Mickey mouse Club she ends

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Speaker 1: up moving to Japan the record a duet with the

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Speaker 1: Japanese singer, and then she teams up with Disney again

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Speaker 1: for the song Reflections on the Milan soundtrack and the

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Speaker 1: success of that song letter to being signed by our

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Speaker 1: Cia in late and at this point buzz was starting

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Speaker 1: to develop around Brittany in the label pretty much pressured

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Speaker 1: her into crafting her into the similar pop mold as

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Speaker 1: her former Mickey mouse Club friend and rival and This

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Speaker 1: was a really a long way off from the soul

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Speaker 1: and blues records that she admired as a kid. Uh

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Speaker 1: in the summer released Genie in a Bottle, her debut

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Speaker 1: albums lead single, which shot to the top of the

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Speaker 1: charts in twenty different countries. Her album followed in August,

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Speaker 1: and I went eight times platinum, which wasn't as well

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Speaker 1: as Maybe One More Time, but still incredibly impressive. The

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Speaker 1: thing that I always forget is that Christina's debut had

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Speaker 1: way more hits on it than Baby One More Time.

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Speaker 1: They had three number ones. You had Genie in a Bottle,

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Speaker 1: You had What a Girl Wants, and you also had

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Speaker 1: her cover of h You also had come On Over Baby,

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Speaker 1: which I totally forgot about, and I played that while

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Speaker 1: preparing for this episode. That is a killer song. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like a Charelle song from like nineteen sixty four,

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Speaker 1: but in like the best way, like something from the

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Speaker 1: Sister Acts soundtrack. It's so good. Like when you listen

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Speaker 1: to both of these artists. It is interesting, as you said,

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Speaker 1: to note the Christina Aguilera hits that get forgotten, because

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Speaker 1: I feel like her career is deeper in terms of

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Speaker 1: just the number of hit songs that she's had. I

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Speaker 1: think she's had. Uh. Her albums I think generally are

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Speaker 1: more a little bit more interesting maybe than Brittany's. Although Brittany, um,

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Speaker 1: I think it's put out like quite a few, like

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Speaker 1: pretty great records. But the thing with Brittany again is

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Speaker 1: that I just feel like she's like a more distinct personality.

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Speaker 1: Like there's something about Christina Aguilera to me, where she

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Speaker 1: is a great singer, but like if you heard like

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Speaker 1: five seconds of her voice, would you be able to

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Speaker 1: distinguish her from like some other like big voiced pop singer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it might be hard to do that,

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Speaker 1: Whereas if you heard five seconds of Britney Spears singing,

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Speaker 1: like you know instantly that it's her. And to me,

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Speaker 1: like that's the difference between them, is that even if

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Speaker 1: Christina is having like more hits, the hits that Brittany

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Speaker 1: is having, like it just seems like the big songs

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Speaker 1: of hers from this era, like they all are iconic,

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Speaker 1: like we remember them, we remember the music videos. There's

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Speaker 1: just a totality of packaging with Brittany that maybe Christina

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Speaker 1: doesn't quite have. Oh yeah, and it totally outshines the

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Speaker 1: actual accolades that Christina was getting at this time. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she she had three number ones up that album and

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Speaker 1: then another top five single with the All for One cover.

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Speaker 1: I turned to you, she beat up Brittany for the

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Speaker 1: Best New Artist the Grammys that year. But like you said,

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Speaker 1: she just always kind of seemed like the jam Brady

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Speaker 1: to Brittany's Marcia. You know it is. It wasn't a

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Speaker 1: case of in sync following Backstreet Boys and then quickly

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Speaker 1: asserting themselves. She seemed at the time to be this

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Speaker 1: kind of second stringer, which doesn't actually make sense when

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Speaker 1: you look at all the data and all the music

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Speaker 1: in front of which again, as you said, I think Brittany,

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Speaker 1: I guess, established yourself more in a in a unique way.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, to me, at the time, Christina just seemed

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Speaker 1: like almost like a like an afterthought, like a like

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Speaker 1: a bandwagon jumper, which I know really isn't true and

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Speaker 1: vastly undermines her talents. And maybe another reason that kind

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Speaker 1: of I feel this way looking back on is because

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Speaker 1: Chris seem to seem to go quiet for a long

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Speaker 1: time in the mainstream American pop world. She released a

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Speaker 1: Spanish language album in September two thousand and then a

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Speaker 1: Christmas album soon after, but she wouldn't go back to

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Speaker 1: the English speaking pop world until two thousand two stripped,

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Speaker 1: and that's three years after her debut, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: a lifetime in pop terms, so that, yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: sort of an interesting move there. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it was because of this was the era of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, Latin and Latin influenced artists like on Rickey

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Speaker 1: Glysias and lou Bega and Rickey Martin or I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the move was there with that, but um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: definitely kind of cost her some prime pop years to

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Speaker 1: go ahead to head with Brittany. I guess all right hand,

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Speaker 1: we'll be right back with more rivals. Christina would later

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Speaker 1: say that this whole time going against Brittany was really

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Speaker 1: unpleasant for because she just said, you know, this was

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Speaker 1: sort of my old friend that she was speaking to

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Speaker 1: the Daily Mail. She said, this was somebody I used

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Speaker 1: to hold hands with. We were silly little girls together

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Speaker 1: on the Mickey Mouse Club and now we're pit against

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Speaker 1: one another. So I think on some level she was

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Speaker 1: kind of uncomfortable with that. I'm sure that was uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: and it was probably uncomfortable too because she was slotted

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Speaker 1: into this pop lane that Britney Spears always had, that

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Speaker 1: it was going to be harder for her to establish

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Speaker 1: her own personality, that in some way she was always

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Speaker 1: going to be the fined against Britney Spears. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think that might have happened anyway, even if she

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Speaker 1: wasn't aggressively marketed in that same slot basically that Britney

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Speaker 1: was in back in. I mean again, they were both

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Speaker 1: from the Mickey Mouse Club, They're both you know, blonde

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Speaker 1: female singers. They were both again working this lane of

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Speaker 1: kind of like sexually provocative pop, although again I think

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Speaker 1: Christina was much more deliberate about that. And as we

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Speaker 1: get into the stripped era and like the assless Chaps

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Speaker 1: era of Christina, that's going to be, you know, even

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Speaker 1: more explicit. Whereas Brittany, again, I think even as she

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Speaker 1: got older herself and started recording songs like I'm a

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Speaker 1: Slave to You, you know, which is like just really

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Speaker 1: laying it out there, she still maintained this distance between

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Speaker 1: what she was doing musically in her persona and what

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Speaker 1: she supposedly was like in her personal life, again too,

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Speaker 1: Like if you're looking at differences between these two again,

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Speaker 1: I think the vocal style is such a big key

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Speaker 1: here that Christina is the more versatile singer, and I

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Speaker 1: think as her career unfold that she was able to

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Speaker 1: do a wider variety of things than Britney Spears what

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Speaker 1: was doing. I mean that's I appreciate the fact that

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Speaker 1: she did a Spanish language album and a Christmas album.

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Speaker 1: I think that showed early on that she didn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: just want to be a pop singer, that she saw

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Speaker 1: herself working in different arenas and being able to excel.

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Speaker 1: And she does have the kind of voice that enables

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Speaker 1: her to do that, whereas Brittany is, I think her

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Speaker 1: vocal range is much narrower. But because she has this

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Speaker 1: like distinctive style, I think it ultimately makes her a

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Speaker 1: better pop star, because that's what you want from your

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Speaker 1: pop stars. You want to be able to hear them

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Speaker 1: on the radio and instantly know it's them. And even

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Speaker 1: if she doesn't have the angel of Christina Aguilera, it's

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Speaker 1: almost like she has like greater depth in like pop persona.

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Speaker 1: Like icon terms you literally this earlier. I really think

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Speaker 1: it's true. I mean, I remember like when Britney Spears

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Speaker 1: first came on the scene with that Baby One More

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Speaker 1: Time video, and it did seem like she was already famous,

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Speaker 1: like the first time you saw that. You know, there

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Speaker 1: was just something so fully formed about her from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, this is who she's going to

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Speaker 1: be now, like for the rest of her career. And

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Speaker 1: it's it's interesting just to go with what you said

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Speaker 1: about how sort of face almost arrived fully formed. It's

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Speaker 1: strange to me how early on the whole Christina bad

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Speaker 1: Girl thing seemed to be implanted in the public's mind

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Speaker 1: because I went back and watched all of her early

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Speaker 1: videos from her first album and you know, magazine covers

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Speaker 1: from that era and stuff, and it really didn't seem

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Speaker 1: that far off from what what Brittany was doing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the sound was a little different, I mean, Genie in

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Speaker 1: a Bottle and um What a Girl Wants was more

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Speaker 1: R and B influence, but it didn't really seem all

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Speaker 1: that different. And so, but looking back on some of

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Speaker 1: the articles written around the time, there was there was

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Speaker 1: article in The Guardian that said that Brittany and Christina

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Speaker 1: were at opposite ends of a troubling Tina Erotica spectrum.

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Speaker 1: Christina has a knottier image than Brittany's corn fed, Midwest

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Speaker 1: wholesome look, and I really had a hard time figuring

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Speaker 1: out why that was. And I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: something about the troubling view that we have around race

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Speaker 1: in this country that Brittany was this white girl from

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Speaker 1: the South and Christina was part of Ecuadorian lived in

428
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 1: New York City, released the Latin language album, had more

429
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 1: of an R and B band, and she was more

430
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: urban in quotes than than Brittany, and not just the

431
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: music industry euphemism, but in the literal sense, and that

432
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 1: tends to get viewed as dangerous and unsettling a certain

433
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,479
Speaker 1: parts of America. I don't know, I've never really been

434
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: able to figure out where. I mean, I understand later

435
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 1: on with dirty and those kind of things, but this

436
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,439
Speaker 1: early it still surprises me looking back on it. What

437
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 1: why she was seeing as sort of the dark flip

438
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: side to Brittany. That's an interesting theory. I mean, I think,

439
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: you know, that might have something to do with it.

440
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 1: I think there's also just something ingrained and how we

441
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: look at these things, where if you have Uh, you

442
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: know an alfa over here, you need a bait over here.

443
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: If you have a good girl over here, you need

444
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: a bad girl over there. It's just how these narratives

445
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 1: fall into place. It's like we have them already predetermined

446
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: in our minds and we just project them onto people.

447
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: That is the theme of this show. I think you

448
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 1: could say that this is something we're constantly looking for

449
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: in the culture, and when you have two artists that

450
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: are similar, it's just easy to like lock them into

451
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: these differing roles um and I mean, it may just

452
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 1: be the fact that Britney Spears was better at um.

453
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: Better might not even be the word that she was

454
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: just more deliberate about distancing herself from what she did

455
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: on stage, whereas Christina Aguilera, I feel like she didn't

456
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: really do that. I don't think that she play acted

457
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: as like the good Christian girl in interviews to the

458
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,719
Speaker 1: same degree that Britney Spears did, So maybe that has

459
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: something to do with it as well. But it's interesting

460
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: to see how they like. I think for Brittany and Christina,

461
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: they both struggled, I think, to mature pretty soon after

462
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 1: like they had that big flush of pop success. Yeah,

463
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 1: I mean, Brittany, I think had a little easier time

464
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: because she had a lot of sort of checkpoints along

465
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: the way. You had the release of Oops, I did

466
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: it again in May Have two thousand, which slightly more

467
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: mature record with some traces of Christina's R and B influence.

468
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: You've got great tracks like Don't let Me Be the

469
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: Last to Know and and Lucky, which is kind of,

470
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: you know, a mature song about the perils and loneliness

471
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: of stardom. There's that Rolling Stones cover, which I never

472
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: really figured out why that was there, and then of

473
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: course there's the title track with the infamous I'm Not

474
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: That Innocent, which is pretty on the nose, especially for

475
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: for a newly eighteen year old singer, but there you go.

476
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 1: And she had another Rolling Stone cover that spring. But

477
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 1: her big coming out moment as like you know, an

478
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: independent woman, grown up artist, was at the two thousand

479
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 1: V M A s which I have to say I

480
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: I didn't engage much with with pop culture at this time.

481
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: I was eleven twelve. I remember watching this and it

482
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: made a deep impression. I remember she started singing off

483
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: satisfaction in like a Michael Jackson style suit, Fedora ensemble,

484
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: and I was a big classic rock nerd even back then.

485
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: So it's like, oh cool, this is a song I

486
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: actually know. Alright, awesome and then lightning speed whiplash almost

487
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: she rips off the suit for oops, I did it again,

488
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: And it was such a quick change to see through

489
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: sequined outfit. It was just like whoa that I didn't

490
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: see that coming. Uh. To me, that was her declaration

491
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 1: of independence, although she was loath to call it that.

492
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: She would later say of her her sparkly see through outfit,

493
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: I really wanted to be sparkly and have diamonds everywhere.

494
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 1: So again getting back to the always a neutral response

495
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: whenever asked about an he's potentially provocative um approach she

496
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: takes always gives this really like, I'm just being myself

497
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: and you bring whatever you want to what I'm doing.

498
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 1: You you project onto whatever you feel, which, as you said,

499
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: I think it's part of her genius. What even complicates

500
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: this more for me is like when you go ahead

501
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: to her two thousand one record, Brittany, a self titled record. Normally,

502
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 1: when artists do that, that means like, hey, I'm gonna

503
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: get real with you all now this I'm talking about myself.

504
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: And this is the record where she's reiterating the same

505
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: message over and over again. When she's saying, don't treat

506
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: me like a little girl. You know, this is her

507
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: coming out as a woman, even though there is a

508
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: song on the record called I'm not a girl, not

509
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: yet a woman, So she's like in this transitional period

510
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: between you know, being a teenager and she's entering womanhood,

511
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: but she's not quite there yet. I guess you could

512
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: call this like her college record in a way, like

513
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: this represents her college years. There's a song on the

514
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: record called Overprotective where she sings, quote, say hello to

515
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: the girl that I am. You're gonna have to see

516
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: through my perspective. I'm going to have to make mistakes

517
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: just to learn who I am, and I don't want

518
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: to be so damn protected. So you're seeing these like

519
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: expressions of like not wanting to be defined as just

520
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: this innocent little earl, but also not all wanted to

521
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: be defined as like this sex kitten or something that

522
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: she's being projected onto because of her music videos. That's

523
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: sort of a muddy message. And then you get to

524
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: like the big song from that record, which is I'm

525
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: a slave for you. This collaboration with the Neptunes, I

526
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: think it's like one of her best songs. I love

527
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 1: this song and that and you can again hear the

528
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: messaging going through that song when she talks about like

529
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: I'm not a little girl, she's sort of like again Coyley,

530
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: suggesting that, like, you know, you might think I'm too

531
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: young to do certain things, but I actually can do

532
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: these certain kinds of things that I'm ready to do them.

533
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm ready to be a slave for you, which I

534
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: don't know is she talking about, you know, doing work

535
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: around the house when she says that I don't. I

536
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: don't think she means that. There seems to be again,

537
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: like a naughty connotation to that title. But it's interesting

538
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: again to me. I just feel like there's an awkwardness

539
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: to her growing up here because there's not like a

540
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: full on embrace of like sort of either side of

541
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: her persona. It's like she wouldn't just go out and

542
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 1: record a Christian pop record, and she wouldn't just go

543
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: full on like stripper core music. You know. It was

544
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: sort of like trying to achieve a happy medium, which

545
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: again I think that worked well on her first record

546
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: but I think it starts to get like a little

547
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: more awkward as she is growing into like a full

548
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: grown woman. Yeah. I mean you have the two thousand

549
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: one vas performance when she's doing Slave for You. That's

550
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: the one with with the snake, you know, a snake.

551
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: It was like a forbidden Fruit kind of analogy. They're like,

552
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: I am the forbidden fruit kind of thing, and I'm

553
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: probably reading way too far into this, but yeah, not exactly.

554
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: It's like one of those things where you're like, well,

555
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: she's obviously alluding to that, but then if you pointed out,

556
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, exactly, like you're the pervert for pouring

557
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: that out, and it just seems like obvious imagery, like

558
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: walking around with a snake, you know, that's like the

559
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: Adam's Apple, Like that's a very clear thing. But also

560
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: it's like, well I just like snakes. I just like

561
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: I just like this snake. You know, that doesn't mean anything.

562
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: It's interesting though, because in this era I think that

563
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: she was really got a lot of great reviews for

564
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: this song. I mean, they didn't get a lot of

565
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: the pearl clutching that went on during maybe one more Time,

566
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: and certainly not the stuff that that Christina was about

567
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: to get for dirty. I think a lot of great reviews.

568
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: I think the one said this was a song is

569
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: funk the way God intended it, which is, you know,

570
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: an amazing review there. I yeah, it's interesting to me

571
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: how it's looking back on it, it definitely seems a

572
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: little heavy handed, but I think at the time it

573
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: was definitely well received. You know, I just have to

574
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: do a quick sidebar here, Like I actually saw Britney

575
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: Spears on this tour in two thousand. I was working

576
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: for a small town newspaper at the time, and I

577
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: was asked to review the concert and also to interview

578
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: concert attendees. And let me tell you something, it's a

579
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: little awkward to go to a Britney Spears concert in

580
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: two thousand one as like a twenty four year old

581
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: single man and like walk up to a thirteen year

582
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: old girls and ask them, like what they think about

583
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: Britney Spears. It's a little weird. It's like if you're

584
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: if you're at this show and you're not with your

585
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: girl for en or you know, like with your daughters. Uh.

586
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: I just felt a little out of place, uh in

587
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: that respect. But fortunately no one called the police on

588
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: me and uh it I'll ended up okay. As Brittany

589
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: is moving into her Brittany album period, but of course

590
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: we have Christina Aguilera moving into the stripped period and

591
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: her single Dirty, which, as I said before, this is

592
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: the famous music video where Christina is cavorting around in

593
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: assless chaps and uh, this is I think the beginning

594
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: of her fully embracing like the sexual side of her music,

595
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: again in a very different way than Britney Spears. Brittany

596
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: again playing the sort of the KOI Christian girl who

597
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: has a naughty side, whereas Christina is just like a

598
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: full blown sexual warrior in like the Lust Olympics, you know,

599
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: like she is just going full bore uh in this uh,

600
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: in this new guys of hers, and again I go

601
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: back to Madonna. I really feel that Christina was I think,

602
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: following that template even more explicitly than Britney spe is.

603
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: I think Brittany took some things from Madonna and how

604
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: to you know, craft your persona and to have like

605
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: this again, this iconic pop image, whereas I think Christina

606
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: was I think following it in a more sort of

607
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: like almost like a guidebook way. It's like, Okay, this

608
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: is what Madonna did in her career, and now I'm

609
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: going to make my own version of erotica. But I'm

610
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: gonna pumpet full of steroids, you know, And that's what

611
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be doing unstripped, you know. I I definitely agree.

612
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: She got a ton of blowback for just the song, really,

613
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: and I remember at the time just outrage seemed to

614
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,959
Speaker 1: outrage everybody, and watching it now, like I know that

615
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: that the assles chaps thing and everything, but looking at

616
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: the lyrics, it's not that far removed from Genie in

617
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: a Bottle. It's basically about having a night out with

618
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: your girlfriends. And I started thinking that the song and

619
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: the video maybe some of the response to that was

620
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: that it didn't exist to fulfill hetero male fantasies. In

621
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: some ways, I think that it was, you know, about

622
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: her own empowerment, whereas you know, Brittany has a song

623
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: out in this Erica all I'm a Slave for You

624
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: about you know, slave to a man? Uh? Or is

625
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: it about music? I actually forget what which one is about.

626
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: But I thought that the backlash when you watch the

627
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: video for Dirty back to back with the video form

628
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: a slave for you. They're not that different. And I

629
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: feel like the amount of flak that Christina got versus Brittany,

630
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: he was effectively praised for doing something not that different.

631
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,959
Speaker 1: It was really unfair. And I definitely think that there

632
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: was a certain amount of sexism at play. And I

633
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: don't know if it was because one Brittany's video seems

634
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,959
Speaker 1: more designed for the male gays versus Christina's. I don't know,

635
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's interesting to look back on. It's

636
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: really horrible. A lot of the really misogynistic views that

637
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: Christina got in this period, calling her like, you know,

638
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: a pop tart who has spanked, like the naughty girl

639
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: she is, and direct from an intergalactic hooker convention. There's

640
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: some really like incredibly awful wines. When you look back

641
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: on and describing the dirty video, it's fascinating and it's

642
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: sad in a lot of ways. You know, not to

643
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: keep going back to this, but I think maybe it

644
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: just comes to them to Britney Spears giving viewers this

645
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: like plausible deniability that it actually wasn't as sexual as

646
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: it was, you know, just because again she was so

647
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: guileless about her own image in interviews, whereas I think

648
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: Christina Aguilera was like more upfront and like not as

649
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: apologetic about it, and maybe that was just easier for

650
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: people to sort of contextualize at the time that it's like, well,

651
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: we can take shots at Christina Aguilera because she's not

652
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: acting like the good Christian girl in interviews, like she's

653
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: just she's expressing herself honestly in her music, and so

654
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: we're going to punish her for that. I think one

655
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: thing too that must be noted about Strip. You know,

656
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: we were talking about Dirty, but I think the most

657
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: lasting song from that record is I think also the

658
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: best Christina Aguilera song, which is beautiful, which is it's

659
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: like this classic empowerment ballad that also existed with like

660
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: the sex songs on that record. I mean, there's also

661
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: like a lot of empowerment songs on that record, and

662
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, I think if you're gonna comp air Christina

663
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: Aguilera to Britney Spears, this is one area like where

664
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,479
Speaker 1: Christina Aguilera just like slays Brittney Spears. I mean, like

665
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: this big kind of torch song ballad, you know, Christina

666
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: Aguilera that's like firmly in her wheelhouse and she just

667
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: crushes it. Whereas you think about Britney Spears ballads like

668
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: you know again like I'm not a Girl, not yet

669
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: a woman, I don't think those are her strongest songs.

670
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: I tend to prefer, you know, like the funky dance

671
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: pop songs from Brittany. I think that's better suited for

672
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: her voice. Whereas with Christina, Yeah, you set up a

673
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: song like Beautiful and she's just gonna knock it out

674
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: of the park. So you know, she was also doing

675
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: songs like that at this time. Yeah, I think Beautiful

676
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: definitely added another dimension to the songs like Dirty and

677
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: Fighter on the album too. It really that is an

678
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: incredible song, and the video for that too, seems really

679
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: ahead of its time. I mean it's almost twenty years old,

680
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: but just sort of the the identity politics, if you will,

681
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: that's sort I wrapped up in that video is really

682
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: astonishing to see now. It's such an incredible song, and

683
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: you're right, I mean, no one can sing those types

684
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: of torch power ballads like Christine, at least in that era.

685
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: So what we've seen so far from these two is

686
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: I think them being compared to each other a lot

687
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: in the press, but there's not a whole lot of

688
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: like sniping at each other, at least not publicly. That

689
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: really doesn't begin to happen, I don't think until the

690
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: aftermath of the two thousand three Video Music Awards. I mean,

691
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: is that fair to say, Oh, yeah, I I love

692
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: I mean, we love the VMAs in general on the show. Yes,

693
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 1: performance in two thousand three is just in my top

694
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: five favorite of all time. It's of course you've got Brittany,

695
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: You've got Christina, and then you got Madonna. It's just

696
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: it's it's one for the ages. And yeah, it just

697
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: seems like perfectly set up for these three just enormous

698
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: pop culture figures to come together. It's like the pop

699
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: music version of like when Pearl Jam and Neil Young

700
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 1: performed together ten years earlier, Like what that was for grunge,

701
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: That's what this is for pop. You have like the

702
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: legend from you know, a previous generation coming together to

703
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: put form with like the hot pop divas of the moment,

704
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,959
Speaker 1: and of course they're gonna come together and they're gonna

705
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: sing like a Virgin, which was an iconic moment from

706
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: the v m as back in four when Madonna came

707
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 1: out in the wedding dress and she has the bouquet,

708
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: of course, and she ends up pumping the floor and

709
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: everyone loves it and pop history has changed forever. This

710
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: performance in two thousand three, it's going to very deliberately

711
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: allude to that performance we see at the beginning. And

712
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: by the way, you can watch this on YouTube, and

713
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: you may want to just pause this podcast and watch

714
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: that quick and then come back, because if you haven't

715
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: seen it in a while, it is really fun to visit.

716
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: So we see a big cake on stage. Britney Spears

717
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: is on top of the cake. She has the veil on,

718
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: but of course she's singing, and we could tell it's

719
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: Britney Spears right away because, like we said, very distinctive voice,

720
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: and she has like a solid minute or so where

721
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 1: she's on stage singing the first verse and she walks

722
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: down the cake, you know, and she's having her moment,

723
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: and then the chorus comes along and Christina Aguilera isn't

724
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: at the top of the cake. She walks like behind

725
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: the cake the entrance exactly from behind the cake she

726
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: comes out and before she starts singing, she kind of

727
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: gives Brittany this like little like she blows her a kiss,

728
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: which seems like a like a middle finger, like when

729
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: you watch it, does that seem very affectionate. And of

730
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: course Christina I feel like she's like over singing more

731
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: than usual on the chorus. It just sounds like, Okay,

732
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna like just take over this song by sheer force.

733
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: And she's like a fog horn. Yeah exactly, She's just

734
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: fog horning like a virgin, trying to blow Brittany off

735
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: off the stage. But Brittany is holding around, you know.

736
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: And after the course, they start doing this thing like

737
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: where again they're trying to recreate the original but down

738
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: to performance. So Brittany and Christina are both humping the

739
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: floor writhing in tandem. Yeah, like and they're humping the

740
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 1: floor while facing each other. It's like competitive floor humping,

741
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: and it's like I can I can like hump this

742
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: floor better than you know, I can hump this floor

743
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: better than you Like, that's what they're doing at this moment.

744
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, you hear like the

745
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: wedding march music and everyone stops and looks up, and

746
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: of course it's Madonna. She's wearing her like Marlina Dietrich,

747
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: like black suit with like a top hat, and she

748
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: comes down the stairs very gingerly because she's wearing like,

749
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: you know, twelve inch heels or something. And they're doing

750
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: a dance together. They're like waltzing together. They're doing all

751
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: these things, and then of course the big moment happens

752
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: and Madonna turns to Britney Spears first gives her a

753
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: big wet kiss, instant, iconic moment we all remember that.

754
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: Then something very strange happens. The director of the v

755
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: m as decides to cut to a very taciturn looking

756
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: Justin Timberlake in the audience. Do you think Justin timber

757
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: Lake was was angry? Was he like jealous? Was he

758
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: like into this? I all the it seemed like it

759
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: broke him. It seemed like he was having trouble processing

760
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: all of that. In that moment they cut to him

761
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 1: and he looks more confused, I think than anything else.

762
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: He's definitely has a lot of feelings that he's gone through.

763
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: It's a whole kaleidoscope of emotions in his face in

764
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: that two seconds shot. And you know, I have to say,

765
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: like kudos to the director for doing this, because I

766
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 1: think we all thought, like, oh, what does Justin Timberlain

767
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: think of this? Like, we know he's in the audience,

768
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: what does you think of this? I want to see Justin.

769
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: But what this ends up doing is because we're looking

770
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: at Justin when they cut back to the stage, we

771
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: only see the very end of Madonna kissing Christina Aguilera.

772
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: And this is a moment that just again, it encapsulates

773
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: their dynamic. Britney Spears gets the great you know shot

774
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: of her kissing Madonna. It's a freeze frame that we

775
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 1: all remember, just a great pop moment, and then Christina

776
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: is trying to have her own pop moment and they

777
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: cut away. They cut away to just refer to a

778
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: narrative in Britney Spears's career, which with Justin Timberlake and

779
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: Christina Aguilera is like ends up being pretty piste off

780
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: about this. Oh yeah, genuinely so. I just like fifteen

781
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: years later, she was on Andy Cohen and he asked

782
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: her about this and she said, yeah, it was weird.

783
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: It's kind of she said it was a cheap shot

784
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: when they cut away, and uh, And at the time

785
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: she gives an interview to UH to Blender, and this

786
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 1: is when she actually really starts taking um public snipes

787
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: at Brittany, which she's sort of refrained against from this point.

788
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: She's talking to Blender in December two thousand three, and

789
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: she says that Brittany was distant to use her words

790
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: during their many rehearsals for the show. Every time I

791
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: tried to start a conversation with her, Well, let's just

792
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: say she seemed nervous the whole time. She seems like

793
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: a lost little girl, someone who desperately needs guidance. And look,

794
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 1: as we just discussed, Brittany put out a record two

795
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 1: thousand ones Brittany Where. The whole point of that record

796
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: was I'm not a little girl. Don't call me a

797
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: little girl. So like, going with the little girl thing

798
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: not good. We're going right for the juggular here. And

799
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: of course, you know, Britney spears, here's this and she

800
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: says a lost girl. I think it's probably the other

801
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: way around. I can't believe she said that about me.

802
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: And then she tells this story, which seems extremely plausible

803
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: to me. I can definitely imagine this happen. I don't

804
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: think she's exaggerating. She talks about how she was in

805
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: a club like I guess a few years before this interview,

806
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: and Christina Aguileric comes up to her and like like,

807
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: sticks her tongue down Britney Spears's throat, and Britney Spears

808
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: is like, what what is this all about? And yeah, like,

809
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: come on, how about a handshake? How about a you know,

810
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: like a little sisters like sister hug or something. Uh No,

811
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: goes right to the tongue and uh, Brittany says, and

812
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: this is like her relating the story. She says, I say,

813
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: it's good to see you, and she goes, well, you're

814
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: not being real with me. I was like, well, Christina,

815
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: what's your definition of real going up to girls and

816
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: kissing them after you haven't seen them for two years.

817
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, Brittany, I think you have a point there.

818
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: It's a little odd to have done that. So, you know,

819
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: we are now in the part of the rivelry where

820
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: they are openly sniping at each other in the press,

821
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: which is a very fun part of the rivalry, but

822
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: also in this era, they're competing in a different arena.

823
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: They're competing for commercial sponsorships, which is really really fun,

824
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: I have to say, because there it really did get

825
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: kind of caddy between them through these commercial sponsorships. The

826
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: big one, of course, is the Soda Wars. It's like

827
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: the d Day of the Christina Brittany commercial War. Brittany

828
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: of course delivered a series of really iconic ads for pepsi.

829
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 1: You know, there's the retro tinged for those who think

830
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: young with the Joy of Pepsi jingle. Incredible series of ads.

831
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: Uh Christina does a coke ad that I didn't even

832
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: remember I and had to google it. I guess it's

833
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: kind of funny. It's about a fan who wins a

834
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: chance to be on set with Christina and he keeps fainting.

835
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: I have no memory of that at the time. Uh

836
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: so Brittany definitely wins that round there um. For a

837
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: while in two thousand one, Brittany was the face of

838
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: Sketcher Shoes and then after a lawsuit with the shoe company,

839
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: Brittany backed out. Who did Sketchers get immediately after Brittany left,

840
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: they got Christina. Man, It's like, why doesn't Christina just

841
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: say no, I'm not going to do that, because you

842
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: are now openly embracing this narrative that I am the

843
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: second choice, and it's like you can't get Brittany, so

844
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna get me. And we're just seeing this get

845
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: reiterated all over again. It's like whether it's endorsements or

846
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: it's the MTV v A maze, and you can see that.

847
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,959
Speaker 1: I feel like it's starting to get to Christina's head

848
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: a little bit because when it comes to sniping in

849
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: the press, it seems like it's mostly generated by Christina

850
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: Aguilera and like her taking shots at Brittany, even like

851
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: when it's kind of mean and like overly personal. Like

852
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: there's that story about like when Britney Spears got married

853
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: I think it was in two thousand four to Kevin Federline.

854
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: And you know Kevin Federline was I think he was

855
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: a dancer like on her tour. I think that, yeah,

856
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: and you know, pretty much a dirt bag, you know,

857
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: like not a great guy. He did not deserve Britney

858
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: Spears at all. But uh, you know, Brittany was looking

859
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: for somebody, and I guess he was their right time,

860
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 1: right place. Apparently Brittany bought her own engagement ring, which

861
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: was something that Christina decided to take a shot at

862
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: she didn't interview where she says it looks like she

863
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: got it at QBC, and then she says, I know, Brittany,

864
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 1: she's not trailer trash, but she sure acts that way. Damn.

865
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, taking a shot at like her

866
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: wedding ring and like her marriage, it seems like a

867
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 1: little below the belt Brittany. To her credit, she made

868
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: overtures to make friends with Christina Aguilera. In two thousand five,

869
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: she wrote her a letter apparently telling her how beautiful

870
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: she looks, which kind of weird to do? Is that?

871
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: Is that normal to do that? Do you write text

872
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: to your friends and comment on how attractive they are?

873
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: Is it? Am I just a bad friend for not

874
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: doing this? I I just feel like this is maybe

875
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: a little weird to do that. Yeah, that's definitely unless

876
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: somebody's like fresh out of like some kind of like

877
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, plastic surgery or something. I don't think. Yeah,

878
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: I don't think I would think to do that. But

879
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: the important thing is is that she's trying to make

880
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: friends with Christina, her old Mickey Mouse Club chum, and

881
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: it sounds like I kind of worked. I mean, Brittney

882
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: spears had a head of child uh in two thousand five,

883
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: and Christina Aguilera apparently like sent her a big basket

884
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: full of presents. So we're on the mend here, maybe right.

885
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: And this is also in the era when Brittany sort

886
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: of began to send into her very well documented personal troubles.

887
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: In two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, she

888
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: had a messy divorce with Kevin Federline in a state

889
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: of rehab facility. And I think that following Brittany's uh

890
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: so called comeback performance at the two thousand seven v

891
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: M ashen she looks kind of completely lost on stage

892
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: during Give Me More. I think Brittany to take a

893
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: shot at Brittany just wasn't you don't do that? It

894
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: felt like common decency kicks in at that point because

895
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 1: she was clearly going through a tough time and and

896
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: this happened with Christina. She give an interview to The

897
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: Daily Mail in two thousand and eight, she said, I

898
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: don't pass any judgment on what she does. There have

899
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: been so many stories about the two of us not

900
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: getting on. We don't keep closely in touch with one another,

901
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: and it's obviously how our lives have taken on two

902
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: different directions, but she indicated that the entertainment industry, rather

903
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: than you know, any personal differences between the two were

904
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: responsible for their supposed rivalry and that the press and

905
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: blown it all out of proportions. So she kind of

906
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: tried to smooth things over around that time. So they've

907
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: made peace, but there's like one little sort of echo

908
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: of strife that occurs in when Christina and Brittany are

909
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 1: both judging reality shows, which is a very interesting juncture

910
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: now that exists in pop stars careers. I feel like

911
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 1: this is like the new thing that like pop stars

912
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: get into as like they're like like their post peak moment.

913
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: It's like before they're going to go full blown into Vegas,

914
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: they're gonna have this residency like where they're on a

915
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: reality show, you know, judging aspiring pop singers. Like they're

916
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: gonna be like like Mickey in the Rocky movies, Like

917
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: they're gonna be the trainer now of aspiring pop singers

918
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: and like escorting the water in their mouth and you know,

919
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,919
Speaker 1: telling them to like you know, box sides of beef

920
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: and all that stuff in the pop singer since of course,

921
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: but there was this thing like Christina was on The Voice,

922
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: she was first on that show. She was on that

923
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: show two eleven, and then Brittany ends up being on

924
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: the show X Factor in twelve, the Simon Cowell Show.

925
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: It must be said that, like in this respect, Christina

926
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: I think comes out ahead of Brittany, Like this is

927
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 1: an example of like Christina actually being in the number

928
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: one position while Brittany is in the second place position,

929
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: because The Voice is like a much bigger show to

930
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: me than X Factor. Am I wrong on that? Oh? Yeah,

931
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: the first couple of the cast from the first couple

932
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: of seasons, when Blake Sheldon and Christina was on the

933
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: cover of Rolling Stone, I mean they were you know

934
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: that the four of them were pretty iconic in that era.

935
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: It's just like, you know, a foursome. Yeah. No, And

936
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: I don't actually remember how many seasons X Factor lasted

937
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: in the United States, but I don't think it was

938
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: very long. But there was like a little bit of

939
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: strife here because you know, Brittany's coming on to X Factor,

940
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: and I think on like her first show, NBC decided

941
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: to run a special edition of the Voice to run

942
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: against X Factor, and I know, like Simon Cole apparently

943
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: got upset about that because he felt like this is

944
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,959
Speaker 1: an example of NBC and maybe even Christina Aguilera trying

945
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: to upstage Brittany in her moment. I mean, I don't know.

946
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I do you think that Christina Aguilera was

947
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: like controlling, like the levers of power at NBC and

948
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: was like, Hey, put me on versus Brittany, let me

949
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: stick it to Brittany. I mean, I have a hard

950
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 1: time believing that that's what happened. I mean, my better self,

951
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: I would like to think that that didn't happen, But

952
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: I know, Cowl apparently thought that might have been a play.

953
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: I think, even give an interview. He was like, yeah,

954
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, Brittany is not going to appreciate this. She

955
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: and Christina have been a bit of a rivalry over

956
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 1: the years, so who knows. I mean, it definitely would

957
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: make it more fun, but really, at this point, I

958
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that whatever tensions existed after

959
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 1: the two thousand three v MS debacle, Uh, it seems

960
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: like it's pretty much cooled off at this point. Oh yeah, definitely.

961
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: And Christina, I think for International Women's Day in two

962
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: thousand and eighteen, posted something on Instagram video series of

963
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of powerful women in her life, and I

964
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: think Hillary Clinton was one. Lady Gaga and Brittany made

965
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: the cut two which was which was very nice. So

966
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: I think that whatever went went down between them and

967
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: the past is water under the bridge. Now, yes, piece

968
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: through Instagram videos. You know, if if we can all

969
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: hope for a similar fate in our own lives. We're

970
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,359
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break and get a word from

971
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: our sponsor before we get to more rivals. Okay, we've

972
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 1: now reached the point of our episode where we give

973
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: the pro side of each side of the rivalry. Let's

974
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: talk about Christina Aguilar at first. You know, I think

975
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: we reiterated this a lot in this episode, but I

976
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: think it's clear that she is the better conventional singer.

977
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: She's much more versatile. She's done like a lot of

978
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: different kinds of music in her career, which I think

979
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: is pretty admirable. I also wonder if, like, ultimately she's

980
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: in a better place personally at this point, I mean,

981
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: we to really delve into like all the strangeness of

982
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: Britney Spears's personal life and like how she's like kind

983
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: of not in control of her own life at this point,

984
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: which is really strange. And at some point I want

985
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: to watch a documentary about Britney Spears that really kind

986
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: of breaks that down because I'm not quite clear like

987
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 1: what's going on with her. But at any rate, I

988
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,919
Speaker 1: think Christina Aguilera seems like she's just you know, she's

989
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: been through a lot in her career, but she made

990
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: it out the other side. And I still think that

991
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: she could have like another hit. Like I I don't

992
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: think that her pop career is necessarily behind her because

993
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: she really is a survivor. Oh yeah, absolutely. I see

994
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 1: her as being kind of like in the share mold

995
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: she has. She has that voice. It is timeless, and

996
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: I know that's such a clische thing to say, but

997
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: like you know, she did all those songs come back

998
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: to basics. It sound like the big band songs from

999
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: the forty. She has a voice that's so adaptable. She

1000
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: could do towards songs like beautiful. She could do jazzy

1001
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: things like Ain't No Other Man. I mean she could

1002
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: she could do like at Judy Garland album or something

1003
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 1: she wanted to. I think she she has a long

1004
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 1: career as a sort of you know in quote chore

1005
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: uh singer ahead of her. I completely agree. Yeah. I

1006
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: mean she's incredibly talented singer. And she wrote most of

1007
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: the songs on our albums too, which we haven't talked

1008
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: enough about him, And she's very talented writer. And as

1009
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 1: you said, I think, frankly the one I'd rather be

1010
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: if I had to pick between the two. Uh. And

1011
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: I imagine probably Christina would say the same thing too,

1012
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: because I'm a big free Brittney truth or here And yeah,

1013
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: I think what what's being done there with the Conservatives

1014
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: ship isn't right? So I think that Christina definitely landed

1015
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: in a in a better place. So if we go

1016
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: over to the pro Brittaney spear side, I mean, look,

1017
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: I just think Brittany to me is just more iconic.

1018
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: I mean you think about her in the Baby One

1019
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: More Time guys, like with the Catholic school outfit. It's

1020
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: just a defining image of late Andy's pop maybe v

1021
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: defining image and her biggest songs like Baby one More Time, Oops,

1022
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: I did it again, I'm a Slave for You, Toxic,

1023
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: which we didn't talk about toxicall this episode, such an

1024
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: amazing song. They're just more memorable to me. Uh, And

1025
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: while she's not as good of a singer's Christina Aguilera,

1026
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: to me, she is the superior vocal stylist. I just

1027
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: don't know that Christina Aguilera is all that distinct from

1028
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: like other big voice Steva's like as good as her

1029
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: voice is. But Brittney's voice, to me, it's just instantly recognizable.

1030
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: It's like one of the most recognizable voices in all

1031
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: of pop music history. Do you you think you could

1032
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: take a crack at the at the Brittany voice, Stephen

1033
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye. It's pretty good? Pretty good myself six

1034
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: time for that. It's pretty good. Oh yeah, I agree.

1035
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 1: I mean Brittany is a legend, mean one of the

1036
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: greatest performers of our time. I mean amazing dancer, which

1037
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: I don't think we talked enough about. Uh. And yeah,

1038
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: her singing quality and you instantly know it's hers and

1039
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: you love it. And I think she's up there like

1040
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: with Elvis or Michael Jackson or Jim Morrison. She's got

1041
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: that level of just she's that identifiable. But there's a

1042
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: vulnerability there too. I think that was always there that

1043
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: made her just someone that we sort of brought in

1044
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: a little closer, especially with what happened to her in

1045
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: later years, with the conservatorship and everything. I think there's

1046
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: you tend to root for her more. I think these

1047
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: days too, I can't think of a fandom that is

1048
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: more supportive than Britney's. Fans of Brittany I have to say,

1049
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: and um, yeah, no, I I love them both, but

1050
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: I might love Brittany a little more so when we

1051
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: think about Brittany and Christina together. Look, I mean we

1052
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: love friction on this show. Obviously, we love delving into

1053
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: different conflicts. So this sort of thing is just catnip

1054
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: to us. But I will say that just generally speaking,

1055
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: like when you're dealing with like prepackaged pop stars, if

1056
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: you don't have like a little bit of conflict, things

1057
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: can get boring really quickly. And I like the fact

1058
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: that even though the you know, pop music machinery tried

1059
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: to slam Brittney Spears and Christina Aguilera into the same slot,

1060
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: they still managed to have their own personalities and in

1061
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: many ways they were contrasting personalities and the fact that

1062
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: you had one person over here that was like really

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00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: iconic and Britney Spears, but then he had someone else

1064
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 1: us in Christina Aguilera that that could kind of balance

1065
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: her route. It just makes the story more interesting. So

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00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: I'm glad that they were both around in the late

1067
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: nineties to just soothe our team pop wants and desires. Yeah,

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00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: I mean that you can enjoy them both and picking

1069
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: your favorite is kind of part of the fun exactly.

1070
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: And again, like I said, we love conflict on this show.

1071
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: And is it fair to say that, oops, we did

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00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: it again this episode? That is is far from a

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00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: toxic punk Steve and that is that is a good Oh,

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00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: I love it well. Thank you all for listening to

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00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: this episode of Rivals. We will be back with more

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00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:44,320
Speaker 1: beefs and feuds and long swimming resentments next week. Rivals

1077
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. The executive producers

1078
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: are Shawn Titone and Noel Brown. The supervising producers are

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00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 1: Taylor Kin and Tristan McNeil. The producers Joel Hatstad, I'm

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00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 1: Jordan's run Talk and I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like

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00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review.

1082
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: For more podcast for my heart Radio, visit the I

1083
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to

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00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: your favorite shows, h