WEBVTT - The Club Pro Crisis - Part 4 "Sit Down w/ Seth Waugh" 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.400 The club expects their golf proth and their assistant pros 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:05.960 to make sure everything's perfect. 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:08.399 We want a club row that can play like Tiger, 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.520 teach like butch merchandise like Ralph Lauren, and tell jokes 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:13.080 like Bob Hope. 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:15.920 Right, it is absolutely The problem is the amount of 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:17.000 pay for the amount of work. 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:19.760 It doesn't mesh for clubs. 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.119 If you don't make these changes, you're not going to 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.200 get the people you want. Your product is going to suffer. 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:26.000 People are not going to want to come play there, 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:28.159 They're going to go elsewhere, and you're eventually going to 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:28.880 go out of business. 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:33.040 Is seth while helping He's the right guy in the 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.800 driver's seat, But is there a vehicle he can drive 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:38.600 that can make it any better? 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.839 People are put on earth to make everybody's lives better, right, Like? 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.080 How can he not want to be surrounded by those people? 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.720 Right then? And that's what our PGA professional is. 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.600 You know, it's not perfect, We're not perfect times far 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:53.320 from perfect. 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:55.720 We're moving the needle, making a lot. 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.560 Of progress and I hope people are noticing it. But 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:02.640 that's not the point either, right. The point is leaving 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.000 the room better. And I'm going to keep fighting to 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:10.360 do that every day. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:19.040 Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is to 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:19.839 give the time. 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:29.399 Welcome to the fire pit with Matt Janella back for 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.520 episode four of this series of the Club Pro Crisis. 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:36.080 In episode one, there was some context and history of 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.760 the club pro and there were some baseline issues that 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:43.240 were identified and discussed. Here's Robin's Manly of Breckenridge, who 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.640 after twenty years as a PGA professional left the industry 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:47.919 and got into real estate. 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.840 I don't have the perfect answer, but it is absolutely 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.960 the problem is the amount of pay for the amount 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:56.640 of work, doesn't mesh. 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.160 Episode two was a deeper dive into where we are now. 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:00.960 Here's but charmon. 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:03.440 This is where we are, this is where we have 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.720 arrived at this position now. And there are so many 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:12.640 golf pros in the country today, head pros they can't 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.320 break eighty, that don't really know how to teach. Their 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:18.919 job is to sell shirts and hats and stuff and 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:21.400 clubs in the pro shops so the club can make 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:23.680 money on it. And they're paid a salary to do 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.280 that or maybe a small percentage of it. Well, that 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.280 to me is not a golf pro. That's a clerk 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.200 that's a golf pro, a guy that handles all the 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.399 teaching and clinics and everything. The men's associating women's association. 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:38.760 The clubs have taken all that over. 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:40.560 Committees run all those things. 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:45.480 Now, but yet the club expects their golf pros and 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:49.160 their assistant pros to make sure everything's perfect. Everything has 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.200 to be run right. We need this is what we 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.119 need to do. You go to apply for a job 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.160 today and you sit down with a committee that's doing 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.200 the interview and they're telling you, this is what we 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.720 need you to do. This is this is the pro 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.280 we want. This is what we want from our pro time. 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:06.239 What are you going to pay me? Well, this is 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.040 what we're paying to go. Really you want all that 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:13.120 for this and that sounds cruel, but that's reality. 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.840 And episode three was discussing some possible solutions. Here's Shane 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.600 Ryan again, who wrote the story for Golf Digest in 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.959 May of twenty twenty two, entitled the Club pro Crisis. 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.960 Yeah, in terms of fixing it, you know, the really 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.480 interesting thing I found when I started this, I thought 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.040 it would be a money thing that you know, they 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.600 weren't making enough money. That's really not the case. You know, 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.960 some head pros make really good money. Money for assistance 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.200 even has gone up, you know, quite well in the 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.200 last five to ten years. The problem is time. The 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.360 time is the thing that's killing them, and especially for 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.680 young people, either who are still in the industry but 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:49.800 thinking of getting out or the ones who did get out. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.640 They're looking at the head pros they worked under, who 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:54.480 may have had the dream job right that they said, 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.240 this is where I want to be. And what they 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.280 see is that that head pro never sees his children, 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.720 that hed pro got divorced, he's an alcoholic, he's depressed. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.840 Whatever the case is, they go, even the dream job 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.880 is doesn't look good. It's kind of terrible. And so 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.960 time is the critical issue. So you need to instead 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.000 of paying your assistant twenty thousand dollars more in your 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.400 head pro twenty thousand dollars more, you need to hire 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:19.039 another assistant, which is more expensive, right, but that's the thing. 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.240 More people is the only thing that reduces the collective 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:25.200 hours that everybody has to work. And the solution is 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.560 simple in that sense, but not simple for these clubs 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.320 to actually do because it is obviously a budgetary. 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:33.719 Cost is seth while helping. 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.240 You know, I think the PGA of America is doing 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.960 absolutely everything they can. I left thinking that, you know, 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.719 they understand the problem. I think there's limits to what 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.120 they can do, you know, I think they are They're 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.400 not a labor union, but they are providing mental health 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.680 counseling for people. They have, you know, tons of programs 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:54.880 to try to get people into the industry, and I think, 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.839 you know, in terms of the consultancy stuff when they're hired, 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.880 I think they are spreading the message to clubs that 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.560 these are the changes you should make. So I think 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:03.880 their heart is in the right place, and they have 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:05.960 the best of intentions, and I think they are doing good. 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.640 But I think that just by the nature of their organization, 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.480 you know, they can't wave a magic wand and change 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:12.080 this overnight. 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:14.760 And this is why I'll go back to seth. Wow, 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:20.159 he's the right guy in the driver's sept But is 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.680 there a vehicle he can drive that can make it 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.440 any better? Is he driving a Volkswagen or is he 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.120 driving a Mercedes? You know, well, what can we do 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.760 to make all of this better, To make make the 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.760 game better, make it better for all the people involved 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:34.000 in it. 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:34.800 I don't know. 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.080 Before we get to my conversation with Seth Wall, the 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:41.000 CEO of the PGA of America since twenty eighteen, I 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.880 want to thank a few sponsors who make this podcast possible. 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.920 Let's start with AG one by Athletic Greens Nutrition made 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.200 powerfully Simple. You've seen the ads and thought, what is that. 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.359 It's your daily supply of nutrients and gut health. 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Or go to the 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.159 Pit shop at Firepitcollective dot com and order one of 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.680 our dormy gift boxes which includes a new firepit headcover 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:44.280 and matching stash bag. Plus you get a sweater, hat 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.680 and T shirt. Okay, time now for my conversation with 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.479 Seth Waugh, CEO of the PGA of America for the 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.960 last five years. Waw is the former CEO of Deutsche Bank, 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.720 and prior to that, he was the CEO of Quantitative 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.960 Financial Strategies and he was the co head of Global 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.080 Debt Markets at Merrill Lynch. In other words, the man 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:08.000 knows a lot about money and leadership. He's incredibly well 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.440 connected and respected in the world of golf. He's a 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.320 member at some of the most prestigious clubs in the country, 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.400 and he worked with the PGA Tour to create the 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.840 Deutsche Bank Championship in Boston. He met his current wife, 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.560 Jane on a driving range. Wah has five kids, and 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.640 one of his sons, Clancy, played at Wake Forest and SMU. 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.760 Under his reign as CEO of the pg of America, 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:32.160 Waw has created a member Deferred Compensation Plan, a retirement 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.880 program for his twenty eight thousand pros. The program was 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.600 deemed a heavy lift and a huge success, with an 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.560 aim at improving the lives of his membership and to 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.240 help in an effort to recruit new members and or 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:48.560 retain current members. Waw, who's sixty five, has also been 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:50.360 at the wheel of the move of the pg of 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:55.040 America headquarters from South Florida to Frisco, Texas. It's a 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.680 six hundred acre piece of land with two championship courses, 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:03.040 a lit par three two acre putting course, an Omni resort, 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.720 and a one hundred and six thousand square foot building 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.680 which has an indoor golf performance lab and interactive exhibits 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:13.280 that inform visitors about the history of the PGA of America. 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.120 This was a five hundred million dollar partnership with Omni 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:21.360 Stillwater Woods, the City of Frisco, its economic and community 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.320 development corporations, and the Frisco Independent School District, and they 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.440 already have on the books twenty six future pg of 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.440 America championships. In one article in the PGA of America website, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.160 Waw is quoted as saying, I think it's one of 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.160 those very few cases where the reality is better than 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.600 the dream, which brings us now to the reality of 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.640 the club pros in which for many of them has 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.599 looked a little more like a nightmare. This is my 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.240 conversation with Seth Waw, which took place last October, So 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:53.000 keep that in mind when I get to the question 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:59.240 about Live. I know you're busy. I really appreciate you 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.040 taking this time. I got into some hot water on 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:06.680 Twitter because I was in a podcast and someone asked me, 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:08.319 what are you excited about? And I said, oh, we're 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.600 doing a docuseries on the dreamers, these mid level tour 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:16.400 pros who are risking everything to chase the dream of 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.520 playing golf professionally and earn a living playing golf professionally. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.679 And I said, you know, it's there's something wonky out there, 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:25.440 because the pool of people who can shoot sixty five 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.080 on any given day is getting bigger, the pool of 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.880 people who can earn a living playing professional golf is 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.480 getting smaller. I said, you know, as opposed to the 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.720 club pros, you know, in some cases can't break eighty 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.959 and they you know, they they they can make an earnest, 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:43.200 They can make an honest living out there, you know, 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.800 making on up to one hundred and fifty grand a year, 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.880 where these club pro these dreamers are going backwards eighty 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:51.680 to one hundred thousand a year. Well it was a 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.080 bit of a throwaway line. I shouldn't even have included 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:58.640 a comparison to club pros, you know, But I was 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.240 just trying to show the example of even you know. 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.560 And then well that clip got cut out. It got 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.840 put out on Twitter, and I got like an onslaught 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.920 of negative negativity from club pro saying, first of all, 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:13.640 I don't make one hundred and fifty grand. Second of all, 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:15.560 I work eighty hours a week. Third of all, like 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:17.480 you know, and I was like, well, hold on, I'm 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.320 not trying to pick a fight with club pros. I 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.240 was just trimply trying to you know, this got clipped, 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.760 I said, in full context, I talked about club pros 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.520 for forty five seconds in a one hour podcast. I 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.600 was talking about you know, mid level tour pros and 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.360 what we're doing as a docu series. And I said, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:38.720 but welcome to Twitter, man, Yeah, no shit, right. But 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.640 what ended up happening seth is I I did get 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:44.840 you know, there was five percent who just got really 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:46.640 personal and nasty, and I was like, oh my god, 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.240 I can't even deal with that. But then I did 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.240 listen to a lot of people who were like, hold on, 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.280 you know, club pro has their own grind, you know. 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:57.880 And I was like, hey, I hey fair, you know, 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.199 just like Superintendent, like the agronomy aspect of the game too, right, 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:03.400 And I said, maybe this is an opportunity for me 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.160 to learn more about Club pros more, learn more about 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:10.280 what's going on. And so obviously, you know, I've now 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.079 interviewed upwards of eight different clipro giving me their all 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.280 different perspective, and I've got Shane Ryan coming on, and 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:21.359 I got all these different voices, and I thought, you know, obviously, 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.559 you being you and where you sit, this is a 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.120 great opportunity hear from you and I and I wanted 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.160 to start with you know, and I know you've told 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.120 me this, but I'd love to hear it again. Why 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.600 did you feel so inclined to jump in here and 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.680 try to help, you know, PGA Pros. Why did you 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.720 feel the desire and need to like get involved. 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.600 Yeah, well, look, you know my you know my background, 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.959 but I you know, I come from the son of 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.040 a couple of teachers. My father is a teacher and 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.319 a coach, and you know, I thought that's what I 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:56.120 would do, frankly, and somehow I found myself on Wall 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.520 Street and spent you know, thirty five years there and 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.520 have zero regret and had a great run and a 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.319 great experience. I'm really glad I did it. And then 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.480 I got asked to do this, and I, you know, 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.160 I was very comfortably I was. I was a partner 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.160 at a private equity firm and you know, had a 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.920 really you know, interesting job and a great trajectory. And 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.800 I kind of took a gulp and said, look, I'll 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.480 never have a chance to have more impact on more 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.160 lives than this, right, you know, golf, despite the fact 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.960 that I'm not particularly good at it, and I came 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:31.800 to it later in life. I played a lot of 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:36.079 other things. It's been you know, my family and my friends. 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.120 It's like the biggest impact, you know, the biggest influence 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:39.640 of my life. 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:41.400 Like I wouldn't know you, I wouldn't know. 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.840 I can't remember the last relationship, deep relationship I have 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.200 that didn't have something to do with golf, either you know, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.480 met him through golf him or hearth rough golf or 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:53.920 or you know, cement to a relationship or whatever. Right, 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.400 and so I think it's perhaps the greatest engine for 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.840 good on Earth, and I mean that, you know, charitably, 0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:02.880 and all those numbers are mind boggling. Every other sport 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.480 borrows our sport to do that. It's everybody's not everybody's 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.240 most people's second sport. People fall in love with it. 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:15.200 The relationships, the lessons, the values that you learn, the 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.440 time you get to spound your family, the places you 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.520 get to go. I don't know what I do without golf, right, 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.920 and so here's this game. It's given me so much, 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.840 asking me to, you know, give back. I was very honored, 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.880 very flattered. And if you think about the PGA of America, 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.680 like we're the largest sports organization, or we've got twenty 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.200 eight thousand men and women that are out there, you know, 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.760 touching people. And my belief is that if I can 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.959 kind of make twenty eight thousand lives better, I can 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.839 make millions of lives better. I we you know, it's 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:46.840 got nothing to do with me really, but we can 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.680 make you know, millions lives better right through this incredible game. 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:52.880 And so that's it. 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.440 You know, it's it's pretty simple, and it's not like 0:13:55.960 --> 0:14:02.280 some you know, angel or saint. It's it's it's selfish, 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.320 like I it makes me feel good to make people's 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.440 lives better. It's like, I don't know what could be 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.240 more fulfilling, and so for me it's kind of full circle. 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.560 I've kind of come back to being a teacher and coach, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.280 if you will, in some ways. And I learned a 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.320 few skills and in my years in business that are applicable, 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:23.880 and I hope and you know, I just I feel like, 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.360 you know, this organization should have the most should be 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:33.800 the most balanced, most informed organization in the game because 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:35.960 we touch it at every level. The first shot you hit, 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:42.680 whether it's junior league to the Ryder Cup. You know, men, women, seniors, veterans, 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:45.920 you know, all our our our foundation, which is still 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.400 incredible stuff. You know, the ability to turn, you know, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.080 make the game look more like the rest of the world. 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.400 So maybe the rest of the world will behave a 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.680 little bit more like the game. I mean, the possibility 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:58.880 is to get up every morning and you get you know, 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.280 fifty things that you do to try to leave the 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:05.280 room better you found it, and that's exciting and and 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.360 again a gift to me, you don't mean, to the 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.200 game that I get a chance to try to leave 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.720 the room better and impact those lives. 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.240 Where does it stand in terms of your progress of 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.160 having an impact on these twenty eight thousand people. 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:19.480 Well, look, I. 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.880 Hope we I hope we've had an impact. I think 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.080 we have. We've certainly moved the needle. I think, you know, again, 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.320 I wanted to make those twenty eight lives better. 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.000 And that continues to be, and that that will be forever. 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.600 You know. I have this image that someone has told 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.200 me that the Golden gate bridge is never They've never 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.680 stopped painting it, right, So I have this image of 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:41.520 a guy, you know, finishing the last breaststroke and picking 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.240 up his bucket and walking to the other side and 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.600 starting all over, right, And I think you know the 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.840 good news, you know this, Look, this is a perpetual 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.240 institution that is for you know, to make our members' 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.120 lives better and to you know, leave and grow the 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:55.840 game and make. 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:56.360 The game better. 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:58.600 And so that will never stop, right because you got 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:00.520 every year you've got to raise the bar and in 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.880 a variety of ways, and the principle, you know, sort 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.600 of remains the same. But we've you know, at first, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.840 i'd start with, you know what we've had to deal with, right, 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.760 which was COVID, and and you know, sort of, you know, 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:15.800 because of my career in most I had to deal 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:17.560 with a few things like nine to eleven when we 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.560 lost a building and some lives and and you know, 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.680 the financial crisis, and so they're all you know, different 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.240 in how you respond, but you know that the principles are, 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.080 you know, getting everybody to the other side, right, Like, 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.120 how do you how do you figure that out, whether 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.160 that's you know, families in nine to eleven and a 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.440 business in nine to eleven, or you know, trying to 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:43.600 repair an economy that's hopelessly broken to you know, how 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:47.120 do you keep everybody safe? And and and uh uh 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:48.760 and those that are most in need, how do you 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.400 how do you bridge them to the other side of it? 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:56.480 And so you know that that's you know, I don't 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.640 want to say rewarding, but it was you know, I 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.240 think it was put in a place to try and 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.200 help when when it was needed. But in terms of priorities, 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:07.960 you know, one of the things I'm really proud of. 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.040 So we've created a deferred compensation plan which will create 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.760 you know, and we'll be in place next year, which 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.440 is one hundred years and making if you will, we 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.560 figured out how to how to create a. 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:19.920 Way to. 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:26.600 Uh to uh, you know, compensate our professionals in the 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:31.040 form of deferred compensation for for tasks that. 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:32.720 You know that are beyond the call of duty. 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.639 Like I can't pay a teaching pro more for for 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.919 giving lessons, but I can give them pension points if 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.920 you will, for uh, for coaching a junior league team 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.120 or a women's clinic or whatever it is. And so, 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.159 you know, hopefully we're creating a nest egg. You know, 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.840 so many of our pros are out there without a 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.040 safety ned right, there's no way to create wealth, and 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:57.520 they're kind of uh, you know, making a living hopefully 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.480 and surviving, but hard to sort of accumulate wealth. And 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.800 this will be an ability to to do that through 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.960 the power compounding. We're giving them small sums of money, 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.760 smallish sums of money every year that compound over a career, 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.080 and you know, you retire with something that is significant. 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.399 So very proud of that. I'm proud of how the 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.440 game has grown. You know, obviously everybody wants to give 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.480 COVID credit for it, and I think that's true to 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.520 a certain grief, But but I also think we were 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.520 pretty intentional about how we reopened the game and both 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.400 on the professional side of things. We were the first 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.119 sport back, first went back on TV, and from a 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:39.560 participation standpoint, we worked with the CDC and Doctor Fauci 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:44.880 to create kind of you know, we I had this 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.119 kind of belief that we could be part of the 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.439 solution as part of part of the problem, right and 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.840 and you know, so we got to Doctor Fauci, it 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.440 got us to CDC. It was okay, how do we 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.280 you know, at its core, in the height of COVID, 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.879 you know, people needed outlets, the need to do something 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.719 safe and you know, for mind and body. Uh and 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:08.720 I said, you know, I'm carrying my own bag on 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.440 two hundred acres, Like that's pretty safe, right, And uh 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.880 So we started out that way and you know. 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:17.800 Ten minute intervals, don't talk to anybody. 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.600 Don't touch the flag, all that stuff that we that 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:23.120 we did, and then as it's staged, it would sort 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.520 of okay, let's let's add cards and then let's add 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:27.399 a halfway house and like whatever. So we did this 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.879 thing back to golf and rallied the the industry around it, 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.320 which isvolved and to you know, make golf your thing, 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.480 which is an industry wide effort which we've kind of 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:40.119 championing to to both grow the game and diverse by 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.439 the game for what I talked about before, and we 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.439 have you know, one hundred and twenty people from all 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:50.400 the golf bodies, UH, the equipment companies, you know, Top Golf, 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.600 et cetera, et cetera, all those sort of entities that 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.919 have bought into this industry wide effort to do that 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.720 as opposed to you know, the the individual efforts by 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.560 each of those uh industry. So I'm proud that we've 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.480 kind of brought the industry closer together and in lots of 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.000 ways which think us to the benefit of everybody. 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.480 I mean, you know, if you think about it. 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.320 From a business perspective, if you were setting up golf today, 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:14.920 you wouldn't set it up in the way that it 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.640 looks right. You wouldn't have five different bodies. When it's 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:22.080 the us GA, the RNA, ourselves, the PGA Tour. It 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:24.160 all kind of makes sense. But they used to view 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.040 themselves as competitors, and now we view ourselves as partners 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:28.840 kind of the board of directors of the game that 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:30.639 are going to work together to. 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:32.399 To to make it better. 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.080 And so I'm proud of how we've helped to unify 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:40.359 the game, you know, and proud of the growth. The 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:44.240 game looks very different than ever used to. It's getting younger, 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.959 you know, for the first time maybe ever. It's starting 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.040 you know, the two fastest growing cohorts or our women 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.879 and people of color. You know, that's that's good. We 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:57.240 had a lot more work to do there. I don't 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.080 mean we're declaring victory. So I think we've put a 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.320 lot of things in motion. And I think, you know, 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:07.760 we tended to be, you know, sort of a an 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.760 institution that was protecting kind of our grandparents game as 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.119 opposed to making it something for our grandkids. And so 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.760 the innovation aspect of it. I've lived in a world 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.400 of disruption, and I think you either get either disrupt 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.960 or you get disrupted, or you get run over. And 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:27.280 and that's going to happen. And we're seeing in a 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:29.800 lot of different ways in the game right now. But 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:33.560 the opportunity to be a part of that change, to 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:38.680 embrace that, embrace golf in every form, whether that's top golf, 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:40.719 which is at first was viewed as a thread and 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.639 now as you as a partner, as a gateway and 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.159 that sort of mindset and an innovative mindset is something 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:50.600 that's reruly key to. 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:52.120 What we're trying to do. 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.439 And then you know, trying to again in the aspect 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:57.960 of trying to make our members lives better. Like you know, 0:21:58.000 --> 0:21:59.960 our guys are tired, right like this is you know, 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:04.240 it's been a great run, amazing, it's exactly what we 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.639 wanted to do, this incredible bull market. But they're not 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.439 necessarily benefiting from that in the way that they should, 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.359 right Like in a bowl market, everybody should do well. 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.280 And I don't mean our pros are doing less well, 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:21.800 but they're working you know, longer hours with just as 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:23.400 many or fewer resources. 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:27.120 Uh. And I think what's happened in our game over the. 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.280 Last you know whatever twenty years, let's say, is the 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:34.520 game has gone sideways, maybe even shrunk a little bit. 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:37.920 Is that the thing that you could squeeze was kind 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.080 of your your people, the kind of aspect of it 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:44.399 right where you kept investing in the golf course, you 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:48.120 had to have a perfect you know, augusta like you know, conditioning, 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.720 the experience was getting better, the F and B kind 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:55.000 of everything around it, and the one cost aspect you 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.719 could you could kind of squeeze was was you know, 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.439 the people and those are our our people, and and 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:03.639 so we really, you know, as the game has grown, 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:07.080 we haven't added in most cases, it's not true everywhere, 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:09.480 we haven't added any more resources. 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:11.280 So everybody's just working. 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:15.440 A lot harder for kind of the same amount and 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:19.080 that you know, and again these are broad generalizations. Obviously, 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.760 it's not true at every facility, and so we're trying 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.040 hard to sort of tell that story that look, if 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:28.119 if you're going to you know, this is great that 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:29.880 you've got this boom, but you're also going to need 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:33.399 to have that resources and and so we're trying to 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:36.320 build a pipeline. We're trying to educate facilities as to 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:38.520 what that means. There's been a number of articles kind 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:41.200 of written about it, which you know, I think is 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:43.480 is you know, I talked about at our annual meeting 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:46.240 last year, kind of shouting it from the rooftop. And 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:49.280 we've done that, and I think it's having some effect. 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:54.440 And our our compensation levels or which we track every year, 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:58.640 going up to a certain degree, probably not quite enough yet. Uh, 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:01.399 And we're getting a little a bigger pipeline at the 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:04.280 universities or PGM programs and other things. So we've got 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:06.920 some green shoots, but there's still a lot of work 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:10.120 to do there, and so that aspect of again making 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:14.359 our pros lives better is really important and getting changing 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:19.200 the mindset in the industry of of you know, taking 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:21.280 advantage is probably too strong. I don't think they're trying 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:25.439 to do that, but it you know, our guys have 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:29.159 service hearts, right, and guys and women have you know, 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:31.600 service hearts, and they're out there trying to please and 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:35.600 create a great experience, and therefore they're working. You know, 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:37.440 if they were working seventy hour weeks, a lot of 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:39.440 them are working eighty hour weeks because you know, the 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:43.200 pap sheets are full, and that's just what they do 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.359 is kind of survive, and we want them to thrive 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:47.240 rather than survive. 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:48.440 I guess what I'm trying to say. 0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:54.240 Someone said it to me that, you know, tour players 0:24:54.359 --> 0:25:01.400 or professional golfers could be considered takers, PGA pros would 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:02.560 be considered givers. 0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:04.040 What do you think about that? 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:07.160 I think it's really well said, and that doesn't mean 0:25:07.160 --> 0:25:10.479 that every PGA tour player doesn't give because I do 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:14.040 think they give the other ways. But I think, you know, again, 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:16.960 my parents are teachers. I think that's the soul that 0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:20.600 our folks have right there. Their service minded there, you 0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:24.960 want to make people's lives better. They're pleasers, and you 0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:27.360 know they're trying to take something they love and give 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:30.320 it to everybody else. And if you already love it, 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:32.560 they want you to have the best experience you can have, 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:35.600 right And you know, I think to be a competitive 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:38.240 golfer to a certain any athlete, I shouldn't make a 0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:40.840 golf you know, there is a sort of selfishness to 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:43.919 that in some ways. And and you have to be 0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:46.639 in order to compete at you know, the highest levels. 0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:50.240 And doesn't mean you're not a good person, just means 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:53.879 you you know, you're you're you're out there betting on 0:25:53.920 --> 0:25:59.160 yourself and and you know, eating much kill right and 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:01.480 and so you know, these a lot of these guys 0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:02.520 are amazing friends. 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:03.800 And I don't mean to. 0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:06.760 I'm finding myself in a trap where I'm sort of 0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:09.520 disparaging tor Pros because you know, they're some of my 0:26:09.520 --> 0:26:12.000 favorite people on earth. So I don't mean to that 0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:14.080 at all, But I think there is a different mindset 0:26:14.119 --> 0:26:18.960 of you know, you know, eating what you kill as 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:22.280 opposed to you know, cooking something for somebody else to eat, right, 0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:26.159 And I think that's that's what it's, you know, hunting 0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:29.160 and gathering to feed people, right, And I think our 0:26:29.200 --> 0:26:32.159 people are feeders and you know, feeding of people. 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:35.320 Is this really just kind of an awareness issue? 0:26:35.880 --> 0:26:36.560 I think it's. 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:39.280 I think it's an aware Look, we you know, are 0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:42.440 twenty eight thousand are members, but they don't work for us, right, 0:26:42.480 --> 0:26:44.320 like we're not you know, we work for them. 0:26:44.760 --> 0:26:45.800 In fact, it's reverse. 0:26:45.880 --> 0:26:48.760 And so you know, I can't pay them more, but 0:26:48.840 --> 0:26:51.120 I can try to get people to pay them more 0:26:51.200 --> 0:26:54.520 by having them understand and then having them realize that 0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:56.760 they're not an asset, They're not a lever. You can 0:26:56.840 --> 0:27:00.439 pull their people, right who have kids and coll and 0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:04.000 tuitions to pay and and car payments and you know, 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:08.080 et cetera, et cetera, Right, and and and they work, 0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:11.000 you know, in a great industry doing something they love, 0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:12.600 but but ungodly hours. 0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:12.840 Right. 0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:16.919 And it's a little bit you know, too much chocolate 0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:19.480 ice cream, right, Like it's great until you know you 0:27:19.560 --> 0:27:23.040 have you have too much? Like people say, well, do 0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:24.800 you play much? And go, no, I'm in the industry. 0:27:24.840 --> 0:27:27.280 I don't play at all, right, And it's kind of like, well, 0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:30.560 that's crazy, Like if we can't play, like, who can, right? Like, 0:27:31.240 --> 0:27:34.240 so I think it's a matter of freeing our pros 0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:36.120 up to do what they love is just to play more. 0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:39.200 Play with members, play with guests, play with you know, 0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:42.359 with if you're at a municipal course, play in a 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:45.919 you know, a Skins game or whatever it is you do, right, Like, 0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:47.919 how else are you going to you know, understand your 0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:51.639 customers better? And I think, you know, you know, I 0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:53.320 guess has given us a lot of lessons, a lot 0:27:53.320 --> 0:27:58.080 of things. But I'm told that Jack Stevens always had 0:27:58.119 --> 0:28:03.200 to head professionals, which you know it's true today because 0:28:03.200 --> 0:28:06.159 he realized that he always wanted somebody there. But he 0:28:06.240 --> 0:28:08.960 realized if there was only one of them, that you know, 0:28:09.000 --> 0:28:10.640 they weren't going to have a life and they weren't 0:28:10.640 --> 0:28:12.320 going to last very long. And so we always had 0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:14.840 two to to sort of so somebody could be there 0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:17.080 and somebody could go to their kid's soccer game, right, 0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:20.400 And I think it's really smart, and so I think, 0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:24.240 you know, people got to realize that the crisis, right 0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:27.120 now is a crisis of lifestyle and work balance and 0:28:27.280 --> 0:28:29.600 you know and inflation and all the things that are 0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:32.840 going on for our individuals. But the real crisis is 0:28:32.880 --> 0:28:35.959 for the facilities, right because if you burn these folks 0:28:36.000 --> 0:28:39.600 out there isn't you know, we don't have a pipeline 0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:44.200 right now. That's because you know, young people coming into 0:28:44.200 --> 0:28:45.800 the industry are looking at it and going like, well, 0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:47.600 that's going to be my life. Like so I'm going 0:28:47.680 --> 0:28:50.560 to work really hard and be an assistant and you know, 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:53.480 live in live in a dorm room and then you know, 0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:55.840 fifteen years now, I'm going to get that. And that's 0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:59.360 the reard. There has to be, you know, something that 0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:02.240 you're working to an end. It's just like it's all passionate. 0:29:02.240 --> 0:29:03.880 People aren't doing this to get rich. 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:04.160 I don't. 0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:06.720 I don't mean to say that, but but they do 0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:09.120 have to have a life and do have to you know, 0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:11.280 be able to create a great life for their family. 0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:16.200 And so you know, when you're choosing between you know, 0:29:16.520 --> 0:29:19.840 re solting a fair way and you know and hiring 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:23.520 another professional or or paying the one you have more, 0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:26.800 you got to you know, that's that's what the decisions 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:29.560 have to be made. And I think the facilities have 0:29:29.600 --> 0:29:33.000 to understand that. You know, we had a demand problem, 0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:35.479 you know, sort of pre COVID or it was, it 0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:37.400 was auton arize a little bit anyway, but to call 0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:40.880 it from the financial crisis till twenty eighteen or so. 0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:45.120 And now we've got a supply problem, right, and they're 0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:48.600 equally problems like you know in COVID. You know, we 0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:50.680 had a demand problem that turned into a supply chain 0:29:50.720 --> 0:29:53.320 problem because of all the issues around it. That's what's 0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:54.960 going on here. Like I'm you know, I've been in 0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:58.480 markets when all life and and something's got to give, right, 0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:01.680 and so you know, how do you cure. 0:30:01.960 --> 0:30:02.720 Supplying a man? 0:30:02.880 --> 0:30:05.240 Well, if there's an undersupply, you're going to sort of 0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:08.560 pay more and you know, create more supply. And and 0:30:08.600 --> 0:30:11.840 I just think I think we're under resourced and probably 0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:17.040 undervalued as a profession and and that needs that needs 0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:19.640 to change. And I think awareness is the beginning of 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:23.000 that and then the reality of dealing with it. And 0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:25.720 we're seeing that again. I'd say, there's green shoots people. 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:28.920 You know, I'm asked to speak about a lot. I've 0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:32.600 spoken at you know, various kind of you know, whatever 0:30:32.640 --> 0:30:34.920 it's the m G a annual meeting to you know 0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:37.920 of club presidents, that kind of thing to talk and 0:30:38.040 --> 0:30:38.640 talk about it. 0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:41.959 And and so I hope, I think we're having an impact. 0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:44.320 And that's what like, that's our job, right, We're a 0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:46.240 fiduciary of a perpetual institution. 0:30:46.720 --> 0:30:51.760 And and we need to you know, make sure that 0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:55.720 as a national entity that we can do certain things 0:30:55.800 --> 0:30:59.160 to to to promote the game, promote our members. 0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:03.920 And and there's no bigger crisis from our perspective, that's 0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:05.000 our crisis. 0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:07.080 Now in the industry. In my view, it's not a 0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:08.640 demand problem, it's a supply problem. 0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:15.560 Is unionizing an option, you know, I. 0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:19.400 Like to think that you can do it without that. 0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:23.160 I mean, I'm not a not anti union, but I 0:31:23.200 --> 0:31:25.479 think I think, you know, I am a I am 0:31:25.520 --> 0:31:28.880 a market sky, right, like, I believe in supplying demand 0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:30.120 and markets. 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:32.760 If you have a free market, they correct themselves. 0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:36.520 And and so I'd rather have that be the solution 0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:43.040 than some you know, you know, some sort of manufactured solution. 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.840 I just think, you know, owners need to need to 0:31:47.880 --> 0:31:50.160 take care of their assets, and their assets the biggest 0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:52.400 asset in any industry I've ever been in any business 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:56.680 anywhere or its people right, and so making sure they're 0:31:56.760 --> 0:32:00.560 value properly is the first that right. 0:32:01.080 --> 0:32:02.479 Is this fun for you? 0:32:04.800 --> 0:32:05.080 Yeah? 0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:07.680 I mean my wife Jane might have a different answer 0:32:08.440 --> 0:32:11.400 than mine because she watches, you know, it all go on. 0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:12.200 But it. 0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:15.080 I love a challenge. 0:32:15.400 --> 0:32:17.320 I'm much better if I have twenty things going on, 0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:19.160 and if I have one, I might get a little 0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:21.280 little floppy and lazy if I only have one. 0:32:21.360 --> 0:32:22.920 If I have twenty, I know I have to kind 0:32:22.920 --> 0:32:25.160 of go at them all. 0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:31.200 So yeah, I'm pretty good at having fun. But you know, 0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:35.360 I it's it's probably the most fulfilling job I've ever had, 0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:38.760 Let's put it that way. And it hasn't been without 0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:43.440 its challenges. And you know, we're we're a have historically 0:32:43.440 --> 0:32:45.560 been a little bit of a slow moving institution and 0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:47.440 we're trying to pick what we need to pick up 0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:49.320 the pace in order to deal with a lot of 0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:52.120 these things. And I think we're getting better at that. 0:32:52.200 --> 0:32:53.960 I've got really good people that work with me. 0:32:54.520 --> 0:32:58.040 And you know, the rewards are the sneaky ones, like 0:32:58.080 --> 0:32:59.800 everybody says, oh, you know you're in and out of 0:32:59.880 --> 0:33:01.120 right cup trophy or whatever. 0:33:01.720 --> 0:33:02.200 That's cool. 0:33:02.240 --> 0:33:04.320 That's great, but like you know, the day to day 0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:07.800 when you bump into a professional somewhere who recognizes you 0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:10.560 and says, hey, thank you for doing I really appreciate 0:33:10.600 --> 0:33:13.640 what you're doing for the institution, or going to our 0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:17.600 PGA Works Championship where you know, we it's essentially the 0:33:17.720 --> 0:33:22.200 hbcu UH National Championship, which we've taken over and see 0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:24.600 you know, having a workshop and seeing the hope and 0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:27.600 those kids and what you're doing. I'm going to the 0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:32.080 Junior League National Championship this week in Scottsdale at Greyhawk 0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:35.840 and seeing those kids out there. So it's these these 0:33:35.840 --> 0:33:40.160 moments that aren't on TV frankly, that are the ones that. 0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:40.480 Keep coming back. 0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:43.360 And the people that you meet, I mean, are you know, 0:33:43.400 --> 0:33:45.280 we talked about it already, but like you know, our 0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:48.280 people are put on earth to make everybody's lives better, right, Like, 0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:51.520 how can you not want to be surrounded by those people? 0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:51.920 Right? 0:33:52.000 --> 0:33:57.000 And And that's what the PGA professional is and it 0:33:58.200 --> 0:33:59.200 you know, it's not perfect. 0:33:59.200 --> 0:33:59.880 We're not perfect. 0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:04.880 I'm far from perfect, you know, if you've been competent 0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:08.719 and but we're you know, I feel like we've were 0:34:08.760 --> 0:34:12.719 moving the needle, making a lot of progress, and I 0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:14.440 hope people are noticing it. 0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:17.880 But you know that's not the point either, right. The 0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:19.160 point is. 0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:22.480 Leaving the room better, and I'm going to keep fighting 0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:23.439 to do that every day. 0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:28.839 The Shane Ryan article specifically highlighting all these different examples 0:34:29.040 --> 0:34:33.080 or or these people's stories. And I've heard from a 0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:35.600 lot of people that you meet with small groups from 0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:39.480 time to time or invite groups and try to get feedback. 0:34:39.600 --> 0:34:42.720 Is that sort of part of your process? Is just listen? 0:34:42.920 --> 0:34:44.600 You doing a lot of listening obviously. 0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:45.480 Yeah. 0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:48.040 Look, I've never walked in their shoes, right, I've been 0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:50.000 a member of great places. I know a bunch of 0:34:50.080 --> 0:34:52.719 I knew coming in, a bunch of amazing pros, some 0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:54.040 of the best on earth. 0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:55.920 Right, I've been lucky enough to be around. 0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:59.360 Them, and and but I'm trying to understand, you know, 0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:03.680 every you know, walking in everybody's shoes. So you know, 0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:07.520 I try to be with as many members as I 0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:11.360 can be with in every form to understand, you know, 0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:13.080 what their life is like and how do how do 0:35:13.160 --> 0:35:15.719 we how do we make it better? So you know, 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:19.560 I have always had this belief in business that even 0:35:19.640 --> 0:35:21.640 running a bank, which I was lucky enough to do. Like, 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:24.160 it's not diving to run in a restaurant, right, Like 0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:27.399 you've got to be out there and and and see 0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:29.880 what the you know, the customers are ordering, Like is 0:35:29.880 --> 0:35:33.120 the you know, this is the stake medium rare and 0:35:33.640 --> 0:35:36.520 the salad cold? And who's on the cash register? And 0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:39.680 you know, what's the experience of your of your customers, right? 0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:42.680 And so I always try to spend fifty percent of 0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:45.279 my time with clients when I was at the bank, 0:35:45.400 --> 0:35:48.200 because that was how I got to know what was 0:35:48.239 --> 0:35:50.719 going on in the markets, what my you know, what 0:35:50.719 --> 0:35:53.839 what we were serving, how good are people were, uh, 0:35:54.040 --> 0:35:57.120 and what they needed? Right, And so I think it's 0:35:57.120 --> 0:35:59.040 the same thing here, like trying to be out in 0:35:59.080 --> 0:36:03.200 the field and experiencing it and understanding it. 0:36:03.239 --> 0:36:04.560 There's the only way that you can really I mean, 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:05.960 I can have a theory around. 0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:08.880 It, but I've also got to have a reality about 0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:12.479 how it works. So I invited all the time, and 0:36:12.560 --> 0:36:16.000 you know, if somebody stops me to talk, I you know, 0:36:16.160 --> 0:36:18.200 I'm late for my next meeting, because I feel like 0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:21.400 that's the most important thing to do at that moment 0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:25.240 is learned from that person, and particularly if they have issues, 0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:28.440 you know, we and obviously. 0:36:28.120 --> 0:36:30.640 During the you know, the COVID crisis was. 0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:34.360 It went from you know, oh my god, we're shutting down, 0:36:34.440 --> 0:36:36.040 to how are we going to make a living? 0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:38.680 To okay, we reopened it. That's awesome. 0:36:38.760 --> 0:36:40.839 But now our pros were like, wait a second, we're 0:36:40.880 --> 0:36:44.680 front line workers, Like nobody else is going to the supermarket, 0:36:44.719 --> 0:36:47.520 and yet we're out here, you know, servicing people and 0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:50.640 putting ourselves at risk, and so how do we make 0:36:50.680 --> 0:36:53.719 them safe? And then how do we get the game 0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:56.040 to come back and the way we did, and then 0:36:56.080 --> 0:36:59.080 how do we deal with this incredible boom that has 0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:01.920 happened because I think, you know, we were. 0:37:01.840 --> 0:37:04.960 Intentional about bringing the game back, and I think, you. 0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:08.359 Know, all of Golf's you know, sort of not all 0:37:08.400 --> 0:37:11.480 of them, but a lot of the sort of barriers 0:37:11.520 --> 0:37:15.720 became positives. It's like, okay, takes too long, right, Well 0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:19.640 maybe that's okay, Maybe maybe I do need a four 0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:25.399 hour walk and uh and you know it's it's outdoors 0:37:25.480 --> 0:37:27.799 and like that's a good thing, and you know, so 0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:32.600 it it. I think we've flipped the prism on the game. 0:37:33.040 --> 0:37:35.000 And I think, you know, the greatest thing about what's 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:37.680 going on right now matt Is. The game has had 0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:40.520 its ups and downs, for sure, but for the first time, 0:37:40.560 --> 0:37:42.880 and it's it's it's history. 0:37:43.120 --> 0:37:46.640 Golf is cool, and golf's never been cool. 0:37:46.680 --> 0:37:51.359 Right, And and that's awesome, and we need to make 0:37:51.400 --> 0:37:55.319 sure we continue to promote that, right and have all 0:37:55.360 --> 0:37:57.520 these different ways to consume it now, Right, you have 0:37:58.000 --> 0:38:01.520 top golf, you have put and all kinds of different 0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:05.600 forms you've got you know, simulators you've got And I again, 0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:08.200 I've always believed, like you know, if you go shoot 0:38:08.200 --> 0:38:11.000 hoops in your backyard, you played basketball that day. It 0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:13.920 wasn't five on five with reps, right, but it was 0:38:14.680 --> 0:38:18.880 it was it was hoops. And and so you know, 0:38:18.880 --> 0:38:21.360 if you put on your carpet today you play golf 0:38:21.840 --> 0:38:25.359 and and you know, and you took up you know, 0:38:25.440 --> 0:38:27.359 check out your swinging in a mirror like you play 0:38:27.400 --> 0:38:28.080 golf that day. 0:38:28.320 --> 0:38:29.440 And we've got. 0:38:29.320 --> 0:38:32.400 To embrace it in every form we possibly can't part threes, 0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:35.279 you know, three holes, you know, hitting balls in the 0:38:35.320 --> 0:38:38.560 way like yes, like work for all of it every day. 0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:41.839 Anything that is good for the game is ultimately good 0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:42.960 for our professionals. 0:38:43.000 --> 0:38:44.759 And and and. 0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:46.200 So we're going to promote it and every way we 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:49.359 can and celebrate it and every way we can. We're 0:38:49.400 --> 0:38:52.640 trying to create, you know, a digital platform that you know, 0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:56.239 that becomes the kind of you know, digital highway for 0:38:56.280 --> 0:39:01.160 our professionals and something that are know, I'm not even 0:39:01.160 --> 0:39:03.040 sure they know they need yet, but like we got 0:39:03.080 --> 0:39:05.600 to create it because that's that's where the puck's going. 0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:06.640 And uh. 0:39:06.760 --> 0:39:09.160 And so we're going to keep trying to you know, 0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:13.760 you know, be forward thinking and innovative and again create 0:39:13.800 --> 0:39:15.360 the game for our kids' kids. 0:39:15.440 --> 0:39:15.640 Right. 0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:19.759 I've spent a lot of time promoting superintendents because in 0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:21.759 my mind, I'm kind of a superintendent of heart. If 0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:23.439 I wasn't, if I didn't get a job at sports, 0:39:23.480 --> 0:39:24.839 I ollciat I was going to go to Penn State 0:39:24.880 --> 0:39:27.400 Agronomy school. So I've always and I grew up with 0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:29.520 a club pro who was kind of a dick, you know, 0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:32.560 he was kind of played head games and took golf 0:39:32.600 --> 0:39:34.600 away from us, free golf. He was like he was 0:39:34.760 --> 0:39:38.719 like he was squeezing us, you know what. Yeah, and 0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:41.000 it wasn't a good guy. And and so I think 0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:43.120 that probably had a little impact in sort of my 0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:46.000 perception of the end, you know, like, oh, that guy's 0:39:46.080 --> 0:39:48.520 just working everybody to the bone and not giving any 0:39:48.600 --> 0:39:52.360 you know. And and he wasn't a good He was 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:55.160 good people person to the members, but not to his staff. Right, 0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:59.040 there's there a difference, Right, some people can do And 0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:01.080 I just think for whatever reason, maybe that was a 0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:05.560 subconscious sort of gap for me. And now I'm learning 0:40:05.600 --> 0:40:05.919 a lot. 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:06.920 Well it's sad, you know. 0:40:07.480 --> 0:40:10.680 Again, father's a teacher and coach, and my kids have 0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:13.880 had a variety of coaches. And I think the worst 0:40:13.880 --> 0:40:16.680 thing that a coach could ever do, you know, as 0:40:16.719 --> 0:40:20.560 a coach, is is drive somebody away from a game. 0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:23.799 Like you know, when I coached literally or whatever, it 0:40:23.840 --> 0:40:25.520 was always like I'm going to coach the worst. 0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:27.520 Kid because the best kid's gonna be fine, They're going 0:40:27.560 --> 0:40:28.120 to figure it out. 0:40:28.239 --> 0:40:30.160 The worst kid, I want to keep them in the 0:40:30.200 --> 0:40:31.879 game or her in the game for as long as 0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:34.920 I can. And and I think, you know, the best 0:40:34.920 --> 0:40:38.120 pros or that right, the best pros. And back in 0:40:38.160 --> 0:40:41.240 the day, you know, if you think about a small 0:40:41.320 --> 0:40:43.959 town like who who was the center of that town? 0:40:44.000 --> 0:40:47.080 It was like a doctor and a lawyer and you know, 0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:50.839 and probably the you know, chief of police and the 0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:53.480 high school football coach and kind of the golf pro 0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:56.439 right because he or she could hit a seven iron 0:40:56.480 --> 0:40:59.359 and you wanted that magic sauce, right of how does 0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:02.560 that work? And by the way, they were surrounded by 0:41:02.640 --> 0:41:05.879 you know, probably the most influential people in town because 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:08.560 of the people that play golf, and so you know, 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:11.680 they they were the center of kind of you know, 0:41:12.200 --> 0:41:15.560 one of the centers of the universe and in these places. 0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:18.480 And and I think that's been lost because it's become 0:41:19.000 --> 0:41:22.000 a business, right and like everything else, you kind of 0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:25.719 everything's transactional now as opposed to a relationship, and and 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:28.560 you know, we need to get back to that. I 0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:31.359 you know, this is off the subject, but I sort 0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:35.919 of feel like, you know, gratitude is being replaced with entitlement, right, 0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:40.440 and and that is really scary because gratitude is what 0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:44.200 you know, makes societies work, and it's what like creates civilizations, 0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:49.640 right and while we have cities and and uh, and 0:41:49.760 --> 0:41:52.480 you know, if we if we lose that and just 0:41:52.640 --> 0:41:55.600 assume we're entitled to something like I should be able 0:41:55.600 --> 0:41:57.759 to hit a seven iron, like you know, you got 0:41:57.880 --> 0:42:00.400 to you gotta do the sit ups, right, you like, 0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:02.640 you know you're going to have to figure out how 0:42:02.640 --> 0:42:03.960 to hissda and that's. 0:42:03.800 --> 0:42:04.680 The beauty of the thing. 0:42:05.000 --> 0:42:11.440 But anyway, no, I thanks again for all this. I 0:42:12.680 --> 0:42:15.520 not not on subject, but I just can't help but 0:42:15.920 --> 0:42:17.440 feel And I know you're in the middle of this 0:42:17.480 --> 0:42:20.719 whole storm too, but I based on just all that 0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:24.560 you say and just kind of agents of change and 0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:27.440 just disruption, and you know, I got to feel like 0:42:28.880 --> 0:42:31.440 you're out of this fight, right as in terms of 0:42:31.680 --> 0:42:33.960 Live and the tour, right, I mean, I feel like, 0:42:34.360 --> 0:42:39.120 why would the PGA of America. My sense is let 0:42:39.120 --> 0:42:42.560 it all shake out? But your focus is on your membership, right, 0:42:42.680 --> 0:42:45.040 Like would that be would that be fair to say 0:42:45.080 --> 0:42:47.719 like you don't want to? I mean why would I? 0:42:48.680 --> 0:42:50.680 Well, look, I think that would be short sighted, right 0:42:50.760 --> 0:42:54.759 because at the end of the day, I'm for the ecosystem. 0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:57.440 I'm for all things that are good for golf. If 0:42:57.480 --> 0:42:59.839 I thought Live was a superior product and they were 0:42:59.840 --> 0:43:02.759 really delivering something, I might actually embrace it because it 0:43:02.800 --> 0:43:05.560 would be good for the game. And I don't think 0:43:05.560 --> 0:43:08.640 it is right. I think it's getting away, you know, certainly, 0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:11.160 I think the product that they're putting out and you know, 0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:13.360 fifty four holes and shock and start like all that 0:43:13.719 --> 0:43:15.520 can a you know, sort of arguing one way or another. 0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:17.680 But I don't think it's superior, Like I don't think 0:43:17.840 --> 0:43:20.960 like that. That's you know, game changing in and of itself. 0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:23.680 And as I said before, like I've lived in a 0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:27.280 world of disruption. I believe in disruption. I invite disruption. 0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:30.320 I used to run an exercise at the bank where 0:43:30.760 --> 0:43:33.080 you know, I'd say, okay, let's assume you know, we're 0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:35.360 going to do an MBO of ourselves, so we're going 0:43:35.440 --> 0:43:38.359 to own them, Like what would we do differently? How 0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:41.440 would we make ourselves more efficient? What will we cut out, 0:43:41.480 --> 0:43:44.120 what will we emphasize? What will we do Because if 0:43:44.120 --> 0:43:45.520 we don't do that, somebody is going to do it 0:43:45.560 --> 0:43:48.600 for us, right, some outside influence is going to do that. 0:43:49.080 --> 0:43:50.879 So I think, like at the end of the day, 0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:55.399 you know, Live is strangely a backhanded compliment to the game, 0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:58.439 right because for the first time ever, it's cool, first 0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:01.600 time ever, it's big enough that somebody really wants to 0:44:01.640 --> 0:44:05.719 disrupt it and come in and take advantage of, you know, 0:44:06.080 --> 0:44:09.319 being a fat and happy game, if you will. And 0:44:09.360 --> 0:44:11.120 it's not a Christmas of the tour, it's a Christmas 0:44:11.160 --> 0:44:13.560 of the whole game. And so you know, what does 0:44:13.640 --> 0:44:16.440 disruption do to runs you over? You make yourself better 0:44:16.640 --> 0:44:20.040 and and that's what has to happen. And by the way, 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:22.640 you know, Okay, so yeah, day to day, I'm focused 0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:24.840 on exactly what we talked about, right, like it is 0:44:24.880 --> 0:44:28.319 the game, but twice, you know, twice a year in 0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:30.799 the form of the Men's Game, you know, or once 0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:33.200 every other year, and then you know, in the form 0:44:33.200 --> 0:44:35.880 of the Ryder Cup and in the PGA Championship, Like 0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:38.600 you know, we're the center of the universe, right and 0:44:38.600 --> 0:44:42.560 and those if you think about five waterfront properties, the 0:44:42.560 --> 0:44:45.320 four majors in the Ryder Cup, in the Men's game, anyway, 0:44:45.800 --> 0:44:49.040 we own forty percent of them, right and or not 0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:51.560 really because we're own half of the Ryder Cup. But 0:44:51.560 --> 0:44:53.960 but you understand my point. And so yeah, I care 0:44:53.960 --> 0:44:58.640 about the ecosystem because my fiduciary responsibility is too is 0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:02.480 to you know, make take a perpetual institution and put 0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:06.080 it on a better course, not somehow put it at risk, 0:45:06.200 --> 0:45:09.920 right and and our you know, we're able to do 0:45:10.000 --> 0:45:12.920 all that we do for the game because we're looking 0:45:12.960 --> 0:45:16.080 to have to have assets and you know, the KPMG 0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:19.000 Women's that Men Senior, like a lot of those things 0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:21.439 which allow us to do, you know, all these other 0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:24.799 amazing things like the PJ Works Championship and where we're 0:45:24.840 --> 0:45:28.799 trying to endow h P you know, HBCU golf programs 0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:30.440 around the country because. 0:45:30.160 --> 0:45:32.680 We have that platform. Funeral League. 0:45:32.680 --> 0:45:34.480 Again, I talked about what I think is the coolest 0:45:34.480 --> 0:45:36.480 thing in golf and one of the great golf you know, 0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:41.239 engines in the game for growth, and and so I've 0:45:41.239 --> 0:45:43.080 got to be thinking about all those things, like how 0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:47.160 do I protect those assets because without those assets, we're. 0:45:46.920 --> 0:45:49.960 Not we're not functional, and we're certainly not perpetual. 0:45:50.200 --> 0:45:54.000 And so yeah, we're we're not in there, you know, 0:45:54.239 --> 0:45:57.719 like Jay every day going hand to hand. But am I, 0:45:58.480 --> 0:46:01.319 you know, thinking about it, having a lot of conversations, 0:46:01.360 --> 0:46:04.879 doing everything I can to you know, leave the room 0:46:04.920 --> 0:46:08.200 better than I found it one hundred percent. And and 0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:11.880 you know, I've spent an enormous amount of time on it, 0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:15.239 and I think I still will. But I'm hopeful in 0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:17.120 the sense that, you know, if we get this right, 0:46:17.280 --> 0:46:19.000 and you know, spend a lot of time talking to 0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:22.200 players and the tigers and the roories of the world 0:46:22.239 --> 0:46:25.880 and you know, and others and trying to figure it 0:46:25.880 --> 0:46:30.399 all out so that we can you know, learn from 0:46:30.440 --> 0:46:34.319 this and make ourselves better rather than you know, get 0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:35.480 destroyed by it. 0:46:35.560 --> 0:46:39.360 Quite a dynamic time. Again. I think we have the 0:46:39.440 --> 0:46:44.879 right in you. We have someone who's obviously, uh incredibly 0:46:45.320 --> 0:46:48.360 you know, I've your well positioned to have an incredible 0:46:48.360 --> 0:46:50.880 impact in so many ways and shapes and forms. So 0:46:52.160 --> 0:46:54.520 whatever I can do to help you or support you, 0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:58.239 I I you know, I'm always I'm always in. I'm 0:46:58.280 --> 0:47:00.719 a I'm a fan and in the man club of 0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:05.040 your vision and execution and your style. And you know, 0:47:05.239 --> 0:47:11.080 so it's cool, keep going for God speaking God speak, Well. 0:47:11.719 --> 0:47:14.960 It takes takes the village man. But you know, if 0:47:15.000 --> 0:47:17.320 you if you you know, if you're going to play football, 0:47:17.760 --> 0:47:19.440 tackle football, you. 0:47:19.560 --> 0:47:22.840 Gotta play tackle football like otherwise you're playing in traffic, 0:47:22.960 --> 0:47:26.680 right and and so get your uniform dirty and and 0:47:26.760 --> 0:47:30.640 hit and be hit and and this tackle football like 0:47:30.760 --> 0:47:32.480 the whole you know, this whole. And I don't mean 0:47:32.560 --> 0:47:34.359 just live, I just mean the whole thing is right. 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:37.000 And so if I'm me, I'm all in. I'm not 0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:40.600 gonna you know, you can't the guy that the guy's 0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:42.520 afraid to, you know, get hit as the one that's 0:47:42.560 --> 0:47:43.480 gonna get hurt, right. 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:47.879 Amazing. We'll give my best to Jane and and thanks 0:47:47.920 --> 0:47:51.160 again for this time, Seth. I really appreciate it. I know, 0:47:51.239 --> 0:47:53.920 I know you're going a mile million miles, but in 0:47:54.000 --> 0:47:55.799 a lot of different directions. But thank you for this. 0:47:55.920 --> 0:47:59.920 So oh good man. Thanks brother prop a cross Paw 0:48:00.080 --> 0:48:03.279 assume absolutely look forward to see man. Thank you. 0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:12.160 Next up more on the future of club pros. 0:48:12.560 --> 0:48:14.719 You know, one thing that Tom Wallace told me is 0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:18.480 that when you find boards with younger people, you know, 0:48:18.520 --> 0:48:20.719 the golf club boards with younger people, they get it more. 0:48:20.840 --> 0:48:23.040 So it's a generational thing a little bit too. And 0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:25.200 I think that, you know, obviously we all get older 0:48:25.239 --> 0:48:26.560 and that's going to change with time. 0:48:26.960 --> 0:48:28.359 So I think there is hope for sure. 0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:31.200 I think it's a hard situation and there's reasons to 0:48:31.200 --> 0:48:34.200 be pessimistic, there's reasons to be cynical, but I do 0:48:34.239 --> 0:48:35.759 think there's reasons for hope as well. 0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:39.200 And we talked to Brian Soulet, a PGA professional and 0:48:39.239 --> 0:48:43.280 an assistant teaching professor at Penn State's PGA Golf Management Program. 0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:47.920 Fifty five percent of PGA professionals are fifty five years 0:48:47.960 --> 0:48:52.080 or older. So there's an old school mentality that I 0:48:52.160 --> 0:48:57.520 think was perpetuated forever in this industry. And I'm hoping 0:48:57.560 --> 0:49:00.960 that that that the changing of the guard allows for 0:49:01.000 --> 0:49:03.600 the younger generation of PGA professionals to say, you know what, 0:49:03.600 --> 0:49:06.399 the way we've always done it isn't right. We need 0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:10.279 to change it. And I'm excited for that. I think 0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:13.880 that that you're seeing some young minds come into the 0:49:13.920 --> 0:49:16.480 industry that are that are fighting for, you know, for 0:49:16.560 --> 0:49:18.399 some more balance. I think that's a really good thing. 0:49:19.280 --> 0:49:22.719 And episode six is all Susie Whaley, who after one 0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:26.600 hundred and two years, served as the first female president 0:49:26.640 --> 0:49:30.160 of the PGA of America. When you're saying all that, 0:49:30.560 --> 0:49:33.840 are you are you directly referring to women? Are you 0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:36.560 referring to women in golf? Are you referring to women 0:49:36.680 --> 0:49:39.120 in golf? Or are you referring to PGA you know, 0:49:39.600 --> 0:49:42.239 PGA pros. Are you like or is it kind of 0:49:42.280 --> 0:49:43.520 all of it like you want? 0:49:43.640 --> 0:49:52.000 Yes, yes, you just forgot the media. That is the 0:49:52.080 --> 0:49:55.719 bucket in there too. And again, I look at this, 0:49:55.960 --> 0:49:59.040 it's not a it's not a it's something that I'm 0:50:00.200 --> 0:50:05.120 about it's not sending them saying negatively. It's just I think, 0:50:05.200 --> 0:50:06.560 you know, I think a lot of us are just 0:50:06.600 --> 0:50:08.960 tired of saying we're grateful for the opportunity, and yeah, 0:50:09.000 --> 0:50:12.240 that's where women come in. Right, I'm done with hearing 0:50:12.320 --> 0:50:15.719 about why don't more people watch the LPGA. Well, where 0:50:15.719 --> 0:50:18.480 are we supposed to watch them? You know, where are they? 0:50:18.600 --> 0:50:20.600 Where are we seeing them? I mean, if you look 0:50:20.600 --> 0:50:22.520 at the paper, I won't if they're in it. If 0:50:22.560 --> 0:50:24.759 you look in any digital publication, not the paper, that's 0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:28.839 how we'll dam any digital publication, right, any any Twitter feed? 0:50:29.200 --> 0:50:31.799 I mean, does anybody know who won the last three 0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:32.560 LPGA event? 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:32.759 Like? 0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:37.600 Honestly, like it's it's actually appalling to me. And I 0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:40.600 don't think it's necessarily intentional. I just think it's our 0:50:40.640 --> 0:50:44.600 culture in the game that needs to be changed. When 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:47.520 people talk about the game, they talk about the professional 0:50:47.560 --> 0:50:48.120 men's game. 0:50:48.880 --> 0:50:49.080 Right. 0:50:49.160 --> 0:50:52.120 When I have conversations with my juniors, I always say, 0:50:52.160 --> 0:50:53.600 who's your favorite female player? 0:50:54.239 --> 0:50:54.399 Right? 0:50:54.480 --> 0:50:57.440 My juniors now know that, right, there's so many young 0:50:57.520 --> 0:51:00.080 girls playing and so many boys now watching women's go. 0:51:00.320 --> 0:51:03.480 But I don't understand why we're not seeing it more 0:51:03.520 --> 0:51:06.440 and Why is only five percent of media publications on 0:51:06.480 --> 0:51:07.640 women's sports in general? 0:51:07.840 --> 0:51:10.160 Why is that? That's just a question right. 0:51:10.040 --> 0:51:12.680 For people that lookay, that's where I get all the 0:51:12.760 --> 0:51:14.640 king on Twitter, Like people will write me back a 0:51:14.719 --> 0:51:18.000 thousand reasons why right, but none of them make any sense, 0:51:18.840 --> 0:51:22.279 Like that doesn't mean make sense just because you like 0:51:22.320 --> 0:51:23.960 to watch men's Okay, good, how are you glad to 0:51:24.040 --> 0:51:26.120 watch men's sports? But I watched men's sports and women 0:51:26.200 --> 0:51:28.640 sports and some of these different women, like women need 0:51:28.680 --> 0:51:31.480 to watch women's sports. This isn't all on men, right, 0:51:31.520 --> 0:51:33.520 we all we all just need to participate in it. 0:51:33.600 --> 0:51:35.319 And so I think when you ask me what is 0:51:35.320 --> 0:51:39.120 that all about? You know, it's about making sure that 0:51:39.160 --> 0:51:43.440 the next generation has it better than we have. Right, 0:51:43.560 --> 0:51:46.560 the next generation is that to fight so hard? And 0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:48.759 I'm here to tell you in golf women have to 0:51:48.840 --> 0:51:52.239 fight really hard. And there is space for women and 0:51:52.280 --> 0:51:55.160 there is space for junior girls in golf. We shouldn't 0:51:55.200 --> 0:51:56.080 have to fight this hard. 0:52:12.920 --> 0:52:20.160 Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is to 0:52:20.440 --> 0:52:21.160 get the time