Speaker 1: The club expects their golf proth and their assistant pros
Speaker 1: to make sure everything's perfect.
Speaker 2: We want a club row that can play like Tiger,
Speaker 2: teach like butch merchandise like Ralph Lauren, and tell jokes
Speaker 2: like Bob Hope.
Speaker 3: Right, it is absolutely The problem is the amount of
Speaker 3: pay for the amount of work.
Speaker 4: It doesn't mesh for clubs.
Speaker 5: If you don't make these changes, you're not going to
Speaker 5: get the people you want. Your product is going to suffer.
Speaker 5: People are not going to want to come play there,
Speaker 5: They're going to go elsewhere, and you're eventually going to
Speaker 5: go out of business.
Speaker 1: Is seth while helping He's the right guy in the
Speaker 1: driver's seat, But is there a vehicle he can drive
Speaker 1: that can make it any better?
Speaker 2: People are put on earth to make everybody's lives better, right, Like?
Speaker 2: How can he not want to be surrounded by those people?
Speaker 6: Right then? And that's what our PGA professional is.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not perfect, We're not perfect times far
Speaker 2: from perfect.
Speaker 6: We're moving the needle, making a lot.
Speaker 2: Of progress and I hope people are noticing it. But
Speaker 2: that's not the point either, right. The point is leaving
Speaker 2: the room better. And I'm going to keep fighting to
Speaker 2: do that every day.
Speaker 7: Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is to
Speaker 7: give the time.
Speaker 4: Welcome to the fire pit with Matt Janella back for
Speaker 4: episode four of this series of the Club Pro Crisis.
Speaker 4: In episode one, there was some context and history of
Speaker 4: the club pro and there were some baseline issues that
Speaker 4: were identified and discussed. Here's Robin's Manly of Breckenridge, who
Speaker 4: after twenty years as a PGA professional left the industry
Speaker 4: and got into real estate.
Speaker 3: I don't have the perfect answer, but it is absolutely
Speaker 3: the problem is the amount of pay for the amount
Speaker 3: of work, doesn't mesh.
Speaker 4: Episode two was a deeper dive into where we are now.
Speaker 4: Here's but charmon.
Speaker 1: This is where we are, this is where we have
Speaker 1: arrived at this position now. And there are so many
Speaker 1: golf pros in the country today, head pros they can't
Speaker 1: break eighty, that don't really know how to teach. Their
Speaker 1: job is to sell shirts and hats and stuff and
Speaker 1: clubs in the pro shops so the club can make
Speaker 1: money on it. And they're paid a salary to do
Speaker 1: that or maybe a small percentage of it. Well, that
Speaker 1: to me is not a golf pro. That's a clerk
Speaker 1: that's a golf pro, a guy that handles all the
Speaker 1: teaching and clinics and everything. The men's associating women's association.
Speaker 1: The clubs have taken all that over.
Speaker 6: Committees run all those things.
Speaker 1: Now, but yet the club expects their golf pros and
Speaker 1: their assistant pros to make sure everything's perfect. Everything has
Speaker 1: to be run right. We need this is what we
Speaker 1: need to do. You go to apply for a job
Speaker 1: today and you sit down with a committee that's doing
Speaker 1: the interview and they're telling you, this is what we
Speaker 1: need you to do. This is this is the pro
Speaker 1: we want. This is what we want from our pro time.
Speaker 1: What are you going to pay me? Well, this is
Speaker 1: what we're paying to go. Really you want all that
Speaker 1: for this and that sounds cruel, but that's reality.
Speaker 4: And episode three was discussing some possible solutions. Here's Shane
Speaker 4: Ryan again, who wrote the story for Golf Digest in
Speaker 4: May of twenty twenty two, entitled the Club pro Crisis.
Speaker 5: Yeah, in terms of fixing it, you know, the really
Speaker 5: interesting thing I found when I started this, I thought
Speaker 5: it would be a money thing that you know, they
Speaker 5: weren't making enough money. That's really not the case. You know,
Speaker 5: some head pros make really good money. Money for assistance
Speaker 5: even has gone up, you know, quite well in the
Speaker 5: last five to ten years. The problem is time. The
Speaker 5: time is the thing that's killing them, and especially for
Speaker 5: young people, either who are still in the industry but
Speaker 5: thinking of getting out or the ones who did get out.
Speaker 5: They're looking at the head pros they worked under, who
Speaker 5: may have had the dream job right that they said,
Speaker 5: this is where I want to be. And what they
Speaker 5: see is that that head pro never sees his children,
Speaker 5: that hed pro got divorced, he's an alcoholic, he's depressed.
Speaker 5: Whatever the case is, they go, even the dream job
Speaker 5: is doesn't look good. It's kind of terrible. And so
Speaker 5: time is the critical issue. So you need to instead
Speaker 5: of paying your assistant twenty thousand dollars more in your
Speaker 5: head pro twenty thousand dollars more, you need to hire
Speaker 5: another assistant, which is more expensive, right, but that's the thing.
Speaker 5: More people is the only thing that reduces the collective
Speaker 5: hours that everybody has to work. And the solution is
Speaker 5: simple in that sense, but not simple for these clubs
Speaker 5: to actually do because it is obviously a budgetary.
Speaker 4: Cost is seth while helping.
Speaker 5: You know, I think the PGA of America is doing
Speaker 5: absolutely everything they can. I left thinking that, you know,
Speaker 5: they understand the problem. I think there's limits to what
Speaker 5: they can do, you know, I think they are They're
Speaker 5: not a labor union, but they are providing mental health
Speaker 5: counseling for people. They have, you know, tons of programs
Speaker 5: to try to get people into the industry, and I think,
Speaker 5: you know, in terms of the consultancy stuff when they're hired,
Speaker 5: I think they are spreading the message to clubs that
Speaker 5: these are the changes you should make. So I think
Speaker 5: their heart is in the right place, and they have
Speaker 5: the best of intentions, and I think they are doing good.
Speaker 5: But I think that just by the nature of their organization,
Speaker 5: you know, they can't wave a magic wand and change
Speaker 5: this overnight.
Speaker 1: And this is why I'll go back to seth. Wow,
Speaker 1: he's the right guy in the driver's sept But is
Speaker 1: there a vehicle he can drive that can make it
Speaker 1: any better? Is he driving a Volkswagen or is he
Speaker 1: driving a Mercedes? You know, well, what can we do
Speaker 1: to make all of this better, To make make the
Speaker 1: game better, make it better for all the people involved
Speaker 1: in it.
Speaker 8: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Before we get to my conversation with Seth Wall, the
Speaker 4: CEO of the PGA of America since twenty eighteen, I
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Speaker 4: and matching stash bag. Plus you get a sweater, hat
Speaker 4: and T shirt. Okay, time now for my conversation with
Speaker 4: Seth Waugh, CEO of the PGA of America for the
Speaker 4: last five years. Waw is the former CEO of Deutsche Bank,
Speaker 4: and prior to that, he was the CEO of Quantitative
Speaker 4: Financial Strategies and he was the co head of Global
Speaker 4: Debt Markets at Merrill Lynch. In other words, the man
Speaker 4: knows a lot about money and leadership. He's incredibly well
Speaker 4: connected and respected in the world of golf. He's a
Speaker 4: member at some of the most prestigious clubs in the country,
Speaker 4: and he worked with the PGA Tour to create the
Speaker 4: Deutsche Bank Championship in Boston. He met his current wife,
Speaker 4: Jane on a driving range. Wah has five kids, and
Speaker 4: one of his sons, Clancy, played at Wake Forest and SMU.
Speaker 4: Under his reign as CEO of the pg of America,
Speaker 4: Waw has created a member Deferred Compensation Plan, a retirement
Speaker 4: program for his twenty eight thousand pros. The program was
Speaker 4: deemed a heavy lift and a huge success, with an
Speaker 4: aim at improving the lives of his membership and to
Speaker 4: help in an effort to recruit new members and or
Speaker 4: retain current members. Waw, who's sixty five, has also been
Speaker 4: at the wheel of the move of the pg of
Speaker 4: America headquarters from South Florida to Frisco, Texas. It's a
Speaker 4: six hundred acre piece of land with two championship courses,
Speaker 4: a lit par three two acre putting course, an Omni resort,
Speaker 4: and a one hundred and six thousand square foot building
Speaker 4: which has an indoor golf performance lab and interactive exhibits
Speaker 4: that inform visitors about the history of the PGA of America.
Speaker 4: This was a five hundred million dollar partnership with Omni
Speaker 4: Stillwater Woods, the City of Frisco, its economic and community
Speaker 4: development corporations, and the Frisco Independent School District, and they
Speaker 4: already have on the books twenty six future pg of
Speaker 4: America championships. In one article in the PGA of America website,
Speaker 4: Waw is quoted as saying, I think it's one of
Speaker 4: those very few cases where the reality is better than
Speaker 4: the dream, which brings us now to the reality of
Speaker 4: the club pros in which for many of them has
Speaker 4: looked a little more like a nightmare. This is my
Speaker 4: conversation with Seth Waw, which took place last October, So
Speaker 4: keep that in mind when I get to the question
Speaker 4: about Live. I know you're busy. I really appreciate you
Speaker 4: taking this time. I got into some hot water on
Speaker 4: Twitter because I was in a podcast and someone asked me,
Speaker 4: what are you excited about? And I said, oh, we're
Speaker 4: doing a docuseries on the dreamers, these mid level tour
Speaker 4: pros who are risking everything to chase the dream of
Speaker 4: playing golf professionally and earn a living playing golf professionally.
Speaker 4: And I said, you know, it's there's something wonky out there,
Speaker 4: because the pool of people who can shoot sixty five
Speaker 4: on any given day is getting bigger, the pool of
Speaker 4: people who can earn a living playing professional golf is
Speaker 4: getting smaller. I said, you know, as opposed to the
Speaker 4: club pros, you know, in some cases can't break eighty
Speaker 4: and they you know, they they they can make an earnest,
Speaker 4: They can make an honest living out there, you know,
Speaker 4: making on up to one hundred and fifty grand a year,
Speaker 4: where these club pro these dreamers are going backwards eighty
Speaker 4: to one hundred thousand a year. Well it was a
Speaker 4: bit of a throwaway line. I shouldn't even have included
Speaker 4: a comparison to club pros, you know, But I was
Speaker 4: just trying to show the example of even you know.
Speaker 4: And then well that clip got cut out. It got
Speaker 4: put out on Twitter, and I got like an onslaught
Speaker 4: of negative negativity from club pro saying, first of all,
Speaker 4: I don't make one hundred and fifty grand. Second of all,
Speaker 4: I work eighty hours a week. Third of all, like
Speaker 4: you know, and I was like, well, hold on, I'm
Speaker 4: not trying to pick a fight with club pros. I
Speaker 4: was just trimply trying to you know, this got clipped,
Speaker 4: I said, in full context, I talked about club pros
Speaker 4: for forty five seconds in a one hour podcast. I
Speaker 4: was talking about you know, mid level tour pros and
Speaker 4: what we're doing as a docu series. And I said,
Speaker 4: but welcome to Twitter, man, Yeah, no shit, right. But
Speaker 4: what ended up happening seth is I I did get
Speaker 4: you know, there was five percent who just got really
Speaker 4: personal and nasty, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: I can't even deal with that. But then I did
Speaker 4: listen to a lot of people who were like, hold on,
Speaker 4: you know, club pro has their own grind, you know.
Speaker 4: And I was like, hey, I hey fair, you know,
Speaker 4: just like Superintendent, like the agronomy aspect of the game too, right,
Speaker 4: And I said, maybe this is an opportunity for me
Speaker 4: to learn more about Club pros more, learn more about
Speaker 4: what's going on. And so obviously, you know, I've now
Speaker 4: interviewed upwards of eight different clipro giving me their all
Speaker 4: different perspective, and I've got Shane Ryan coming on, and
Speaker 4: I got all these different voices, and I thought, you know, obviously,
Speaker 4: you being you and where you sit, this is a
Speaker 4: great opportunity hear from you and I and I wanted
Speaker 4: to start with you know, and I know you've told
Speaker 4: me this, but I'd love to hear it again. Why
Speaker 4: did you feel so inclined to jump in here and
Speaker 4: try to help, you know, PGA Pros. Why did you
Speaker 4: feel the desire and need to like get involved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, you know my you know my background,
Speaker 2: but I you know, I come from the son of
Speaker 2: a couple of teachers. My father is a teacher and
Speaker 2: a coach, and you know, I thought that's what I
Speaker 2: would do, frankly, and somehow I found myself on Wall
Speaker 2: Street and spent you know, thirty five years there and
Speaker 2: have zero regret and had a great run and a
Speaker 2: great experience. I'm really glad I did it. And then
Speaker 2: I got asked to do this, and I, you know,
Speaker 2: I was very comfortably I was. I was a partner
Speaker 2: at a private equity firm and you know, had a
Speaker 2: really you know, interesting job and a great trajectory. And
Speaker 2: I kind of took a gulp and said, look, I'll
Speaker 2: never have a chance to have more impact on more
Speaker 2: lives than this, right, you know, golf, despite the fact
Speaker 2: that I'm not particularly good at it, and I came
Speaker 2: to it later in life. I played a lot of
Speaker 2: other things. It's been you know, my family and my friends.
Speaker 2: It's like the biggest impact, you know, the biggest influence
Speaker 2: of my life.
Speaker 6: Like I wouldn't know you, I wouldn't know.
Speaker 2: I can't remember the last relationship, deep relationship I have
Speaker 2: that didn't have something to do with golf, either you know,
Speaker 2: met him through golf him or hearth rough golf or
Speaker 2: or you know, cement to a relationship or whatever. Right,
Speaker 2: and so I think it's perhaps the greatest engine for
Speaker 2: good on Earth, and I mean that, you know, charitably,
Speaker 2: and all those numbers are mind boggling. Every other sport
Speaker 2: borrows our sport to do that. It's everybody's not everybody's
Speaker 2: most people's second sport. People fall in love with it.
Speaker 2: The relationships, the lessons, the values that you learn, the
Speaker 2: time you get to spound your family, the places you
Speaker 2: get to go. I don't know what I do without golf, right,
Speaker 2: and so here's this game. It's given me so much,
Speaker 2: asking me to, you know, give back. I was very honored,
Speaker 2: very flattered. And if you think about the PGA of America,
Speaker 2: like we're the largest sports organization, or we've got twenty
Speaker 2: eight thousand men and women that are out there, you know,
Speaker 2: touching people. And my belief is that if I can
Speaker 2: kind of make twenty eight thousand lives better, I can
Speaker 2: make millions of lives better. I we you know, it's
Speaker 2: got nothing to do with me really, but we can
Speaker 2: make you know, millions lives better right through this incredible game.
Speaker 6: And so that's it.
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's pretty simple, and it's not like
Speaker 2: some you know, angel or saint. It's it's it's selfish,
Speaker 2: like I it makes me feel good to make people's
Speaker 2: lives better. It's like, I don't know what could be
Speaker 2: more fulfilling, and so for me it's kind of full circle.
Speaker 2: I've kind of come back to being a teacher and coach,
Speaker 2: if you will, in some ways. And I learned a
Speaker 2: few skills and in my years in business that are applicable,
Speaker 2: and I hope and you know, I just I feel like,
Speaker 2: you know, this organization should have the most should be
Speaker 2: the most balanced, most informed organization in the game because
Speaker 2: we touch it at every level. The first shot you hit,
Speaker 2: whether it's junior league to the Ryder Cup. You know, men, women, seniors, veterans,
Speaker 2: you know, all our our our foundation, which is still
Speaker 2: incredible stuff. You know, the ability to turn, you know,
Speaker 2: make the game look more like the rest of the world.
Speaker 2: So maybe the rest of the world will behave a
Speaker 2: little bit more like the game. I mean, the possibility
Speaker 2: is to get up every morning and you get you know,
Speaker 2: fifty things that you do to try to leave the
Speaker 2: room better you found it, and that's exciting and and
Speaker 2: again a gift to me, you don't mean, to the
Speaker 2: game that I get a chance to try to leave
Speaker 2: the room better and impact those lives.
Speaker 4: Where does it stand in terms of your progress of
Speaker 4: having an impact on these twenty eight thousand people.
Speaker 6: Well, look, I.
Speaker 2: Hope we I hope we've had an impact. I think
Speaker 2: we have. We've certainly moved the needle. I think, you know, again,
Speaker 2: I wanted to make those twenty eight lives better.
Speaker 6: And that continues to be, and that that will be forever.
Speaker 2: You know. I have this image that someone has told
Speaker 2: me that the Golden gate bridge is never They've never
Speaker 2: stopped painting it, right, So I have this image of
Speaker 2: a guy, you know, finishing the last breaststroke and picking
Speaker 2: up his bucket and walking to the other side and
Speaker 2: starting all over, right, And I think you know the
Speaker 2: good news, you know this, Look, this is a perpetual
Speaker 2: institution that is for you know, to make our members'
Speaker 2: lives better and to you know, leave and grow the
Speaker 2: game and make.
Speaker 6: The game better.
Speaker 2: And so that will never stop, right because you got
Speaker 2: every year you've got to raise the bar and in
Speaker 2: a variety of ways, and the principle, you know, sort
Speaker 2: of remains the same. But we've you know, at first,
Speaker 2: i'd start with, you know what we've had to deal with, right,
Speaker 2: which was COVID, and and you know, sort of, you know,
Speaker 2: because of my career in most I had to deal
Speaker 2: with a few things like nine to eleven when we
Speaker 2: lost a building and some lives and and you know,
Speaker 2: the financial crisis, and so they're all you know, different
Speaker 2: in how you respond, but you know that the principles are,
Speaker 2: you know, getting everybody to the other side, right, Like,
Speaker 2: how do you how do you figure that out, whether
Speaker 2: that's you know, families in nine to eleven and a
Speaker 2: business in nine to eleven, or you know, trying to
Speaker 2: repair an economy that's hopelessly broken to you know, how
Speaker 2: do you keep everybody safe? And and and uh uh
Speaker 2: and those that are most in need, how do you
Speaker 2: how do you bridge them to the other side of it?
Speaker 2: And so you know that that's you know, I don't
Speaker 2: want to say rewarding, but it was you know, I
Speaker 2: think it was put in a place to try and
Speaker 2: help when when it was needed. But in terms of priorities,
Speaker 2: you know, one of the things I'm really proud of.
Speaker 2: So we've created a deferred compensation plan which will create
Speaker 2: you know, and we'll be in place next year, which
Speaker 2: is one hundred years and making if you will, we
Speaker 2: figured out how to how to create a.
Speaker 6: Way to.
Speaker 2: Uh to uh, you know, compensate our professionals in the
Speaker 2: form of deferred compensation for for tasks that.
Speaker 6: You know that are beyond the call of duty.
Speaker 2: Like I can't pay a teaching pro more for for
Speaker 2: giving lessons, but I can give them pension points if
Speaker 2: you will, for uh, for coaching a junior league team
Speaker 2: or a women's clinic or whatever it is. And so,
Speaker 2: you know, hopefully we're creating a nest egg. You know,
Speaker 2: so many of our pros are out there without a
Speaker 2: safety ned right, there's no way to create wealth, and
Speaker 2: they're kind of uh, you know, making a living hopefully
Speaker 2: and surviving, but hard to sort of accumulate wealth. And
Speaker 2: this will be an ability to to do that through
Speaker 2: the power compounding. We're giving them small sums of money,
Speaker 2: smallish sums of money every year that compound over a career,
Speaker 2: and you know, you retire with something that is significant.
Speaker 2: So very proud of that. I'm proud of how the
Speaker 2: game has grown. You know, obviously everybody wants to give
Speaker 2: COVID credit for it, and I think that's true to
Speaker 2: a certain grief, But but I also think we were
Speaker 2: pretty intentional about how we reopened the game and both
Speaker 2: on the professional side of things. We were the first
Speaker 2: sport back, first went back on TV, and from a
Speaker 2: participation standpoint, we worked with the CDC and Doctor Fauci
Speaker 2: to create kind of you know, we I had this
Speaker 2: kind of belief that we could be part of the
Speaker 2: solution as part of part of the problem, right and
Speaker 2: and you know, so we got to Doctor Fauci, it
Speaker 2: got us to CDC. It was okay, how do we
Speaker 2: you know, at its core, in the height of COVID,
Speaker 2: you know, people needed outlets, the need to do something
Speaker 2: safe and you know, for mind and body. Uh and
Speaker 2: I said, you know, I'm carrying my own bag on
Speaker 2: two hundred acres, Like that's pretty safe, right, And uh
Speaker 2: So we started out that way and you know.
Speaker 6: Ten minute intervals, don't talk to anybody.
Speaker 2: Don't touch the flag, all that stuff that we that
Speaker 2: we did, and then as it's staged, it would sort
Speaker 2: of okay, let's let's add cards and then let's add
Speaker 2: a halfway house and like whatever. So we did this
Speaker 2: thing back to golf and rallied the the industry around it,
Speaker 2: which isvolved and to you know, make golf your thing,
Speaker 2: which is an industry wide effort which we've kind of
Speaker 2: championing to to both grow the game and diverse by
Speaker 2: the game for what I talked about before, and we
Speaker 2: have you know, one hundred and twenty people from all
Speaker 2: the golf bodies, UH, the equipment companies, you know, Top Golf,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, all those sort of entities that
Speaker 2: have bought into this industry wide effort to do that
Speaker 2: as opposed to you know, the the individual efforts by
Speaker 2: each of those uh industry. So I'm proud that we've
Speaker 2: kind of brought the industry closer together and in lots of
Speaker 2: ways which think us to the benefit of everybody.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, if you think about it.
Speaker 2: From a business perspective, if you were setting up golf today,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't set it up in the way that it
Speaker 2: looks right. You wouldn't have five different bodies. When it's
Speaker 2: the us GA, the RNA, ourselves, the PGA Tour. It
Speaker 2: all kind of makes sense. But they used to view
Speaker 2: themselves as competitors, and now we view ourselves as partners
Speaker 2: kind of the board of directors of the game that
Speaker 2: are going to work together to.
Speaker 6: To to make it better.
Speaker 2: And so I'm proud of how we've helped to unify
Speaker 2: the game, you know, and proud of the growth. The
Speaker 2: game looks very different than ever used to. It's getting younger,
Speaker 2: you know, for the first time maybe ever. It's starting
Speaker 2: you know, the two fastest growing cohorts or our women
Speaker 2: and people of color. You know, that's that's good. We
Speaker 2: had a lot more work to do there. I don't
Speaker 2: mean we're declaring victory. So I think we've put a
Speaker 2: lot of things in motion. And I think, you know,
Speaker 2: we tended to be, you know, sort of a an
Speaker 2: institution that was protecting kind of our grandparents game as
Speaker 2: opposed to making it something for our grandkids. And so
Speaker 2: the innovation aspect of it. I've lived in a world
Speaker 2: of disruption, and I think you either get either disrupt
Speaker 2: or you get disrupted, or you get run over. And
Speaker 2: and that's going to happen. And we're seeing in a
Speaker 2: lot of different ways in the game right now. But
Speaker 2: the opportunity to be a part of that change, to
Speaker 2: embrace that, embrace golf in every form, whether that's top golf,
Speaker 2: which is at first was viewed as a thread and
Speaker 2: now as you as a partner, as a gateway and
Speaker 2: that sort of mindset and an innovative mindset is something
Speaker 2: that's reruly key to.
Speaker 6: What we're trying to do.
Speaker 2: And then you know, trying to again in the aspect
Speaker 2: of trying to make our members lives better. Like you know,
Speaker 2: our guys are tired, right like this is you know,
Speaker 2: it's been a great run, amazing, it's exactly what we
Speaker 2: wanted to do, this incredible bull market. But they're not
Speaker 2: necessarily benefiting from that in the way that they should,
Speaker 2: right Like in a bowl market, everybody should do well.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean our pros are doing less well,
Speaker 2: but they're working you know, longer hours with just as
Speaker 2: many or fewer resources.
Speaker 6: Uh. And I think what's happened in our game over the.
Speaker 2: Last you know whatever twenty years, let's say, is the
Speaker 2: game has gone sideways, maybe even shrunk a little bit.
Speaker 2: Is that the thing that you could squeeze was kind
Speaker 2: of your your people, the kind of aspect of it
Speaker 2: right where you kept investing in the golf course, you
Speaker 2: had to have a perfect you know, augusta like you know, conditioning,
Speaker 2: the experience was getting better, the F and B kind
Speaker 2: of everything around it, and the one cost aspect you
Speaker 2: could you could kind of squeeze was was you know,
Speaker 2: the people and those are our our people, and and
Speaker 2: so we really, you know, as the game has grown,
Speaker 2: we haven't added in most cases, it's not true everywhere,
Speaker 2: we haven't added any more resources.
Speaker 6: So everybody's just working.
Speaker 2: A lot harder for kind of the same amount and
Speaker 2: that you know, and again these are broad generalizations. Obviously,
Speaker 2: it's not true at every facility, and so we're trying
Speaker 2: hard to sort of tell that story that look, if
Speaker 2: if you're going to you know, this is great that
Speaker 2: you've got this boom, but you're also going to need
Speaker 2: to have that resources and and so we're trying to
Speaker 2: build a pipeline. We're trying to educate facilities as to
Speaker 2: what that means. There's been a number of articles kind
Speaker 2: of written about it, which you know, I think is
Speaker 2: is you know, I talked about at our annual meeting
Speaker 2: last year, kind of shouting it from the rooftop. And
Speaker 2: we've done that, and I think it's having some effect.
Speaker 2: And our our compensation levels or which we track every year,
Speaker 2: going up to a certain degree, probably not quite enough yet. Uh,
Speaker 2: And we're getting a little a bigger pipeline at the
Speaker 2: universities or PGM programs and other things. So we've got
Speaker 2: some green shoots, but there's still a lot of work
Speaker 2: to do there, and so that aspect of again making
Speaker 2: our pros lives better is really important and getting changing
Speaker 2: the mindset in the industry of of you know, taking
Speaker 2: advantage is probably too strong. I don't think they're trying
Speaker 2: to do that, but it you know, our guys have
Speaker 2: service hearts, right, and guys and women have you know,
Speaker 2: service hearts, and they're out there trying to please and
Speaker 2: create a great experience, and therefore they're working. You know,
Speaker 2: if they were working seventy hour weeks, a lot of
Speaker 2: them are working eighty hour weeks because you know, the
Speaker 2: pap sheets are full, and that's just what they do
Speaker 2: is kind of survive, and we want them to thrive
Speaker 2: rather than survive.
Speaker 6: I guess what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 4: Someone said it to me that, you know, tour players
Speaker 4: or professional golfers could be considered takers, PGA pros would
Speaker 4: be considered givers.
Speaker 6: What do you think about that?
Speaker 2: I think it's really well said, and that doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that every PGA tour player doesn't give because I do
Speaker 2: think they give the other ways. But I think, you know, again,
Speaker 2: my parents are teachers. I think that's the soul that
Speaker 2: our folks have right there. Their service minded there, you
Speaker 2: want to make people's lives better. They're pleasers, and you
Speaker 2: know they're trying to take something they love and give
Speaker 2: it to everybody else. And if you already love it,
Speaker 2: they want you to have the best experience you can have,
Speaker 2: right And you know, I think to be a competitive
Speaker 2: golfer to a certain any athlete, I shouldn't make a
Speaker 2: golf you know, there is a sort of selfishness to
Speaker 2: that in some ways. And and you have to be
Speaker 2: in order to compete at you know, the highest levels.
Speaker 2: And doesn't mean you're not a good person, just means
Speaker 2: you you know, you're you're you're out there betting on
Speaker 2: yourself and and you know, eating much kill right and
Speaker 2: and so you know, these a lot of these guys
Speaker 2: are amazing friends.
Speaker 6: And I don't mean to.
Speaker 2: I'm finding myself in a trap where I'm sort of
Speaker 2: disparaging tor Pros because you know, they're some of my
Speaker 2: favorite people on earth. So I don't mean to that
Speaker 2: at all, But I think there is a different mindset
Speaker 2: of you know, you know, eating what you kill as
Speaker 2: opposed to you know, cooking something for somebody else to eat, right,
Speaker 2: And I think that's that's what it's, you know, hunting
Speaker 2: and gathering to feed people, right, And I think our
Speaker 2: people are feeders and you know, feeding of people.
Speaker 4: Is this really just kind of an awareness issue?
Speaker 6: I think it's.
Speaker 2: I think it's an aware Look, we you know, are
Speaker 2: twenty eight thousand are members, but they don't work for us, right,
Speaker 2: like we're not you know, we work for them.
Speaker 6: In fact, it's reverse.
Speaker 2: And so you know, I can't pay them more, but
Speaker 2: I can try to get people to pay them more
Speaker 2: by having them understand and then having them realize that
Speaker 2: they're not an asset, They're not a lever. You can
Speaker 2: pull their people, right who have kids and coll and
Speaker 2: tuitions to pay and and car payments and you know,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, Right, and and and they work,
Speaker 2: you know, in a great industry doing something they love,
Speaker 2: but but ungodly hours.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: And it's a little bit you know, too much chocolate
Speaker 2: ice cream, right, Like it's great until you know you
Speaker 2: have you have too much? Like people say, well, do
Speaker 2: you play much? And go, no, I'm in the industry.
Speaker 2: I don't play at all, right, And it's kind of like, well,
Speaker 2: that's crazy, Like if we can't play, like, who can, right? Like,
Speaker 2: so I think it's a matter of freeing our pros
Speaker 2: up to do what they love is just to play more.
Speaker 2: Play with members, play with guests, play with you know,
Speaker 2: with if you're at a municipal course, play in a
Speaker 2: you know, a Skins game or whatever it is you do, right, Like,
Speaker 2: how else are you going to you know, understand your
Speaker 2: customers better? And I think, you know, you know, I
Speaker 2: guess has given us a lot of lessons, a lot
Speaker 2: of things. But I'm told that Jack Stevens always had
Speaker 2: to head professionals, which you know it's true today because
Speaker 2: he realized that he always wanted somebody there. But he
Speaker 2: realized if there was only one of them, that you know,
Speaker 2: they weren't going to have a life and they weren't
Speaker 2: going to last very long. And so we always had
Speaker 2: two to to sort of so somebody could be there
Speaker 2: and somebody could go to their kid's soccer game, right,
Speaker 2: And I think it's really smart, and so I think,
Speaker 2: you know, people got to realize that the crisis, right
Speaker 2: now is a crisis of lifestyle and work balance and
Speaker 2: you know and inflation and all the things that are
Speaker 2: going on for our individuals. But the real crisis is
Speaker 2: for the facilities, right because if you burn these folks
Speaker 2: out there isn't you know, we don't have a pipeline
Speaker 2: right now. That's because you know, young people coming into
Speaker 2: the industry are looking at it and going like, well,
Speaker 2: that's going to be my life. Like so I'm going
Speaker 2: to work really hard and be an assistant and you know,
Speaker 2: live in live in a dorm room and then you know,
Speaker 2: fifteen years now, I'm going to get that. And that's
Speaker 2: the reard. There has to be, you know, something that
Speaker 2: you're working to an end. It's just like it's all passionate.
Speaker 2: People aren't doing this to get rich.
Speaker 6: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't mean to say that, but but they do
Speaker 2: have to have a life and do have to you know,
Speaker 2: be able to create a great life for their family.
Speaker 2: And so you know, when you're choosing between you know,
Speaker 2: re solting a fair way and you know and hiring
Speaker 2: another professional or or paying the one you have more,
Speaker 2: you got to you know, that's that's what the decisions
Speaker 2: have to be made. And I think the facilities have
Speaker 2: to understand that. You know, we had a demand problem,
Speaker 2: you know, sort of pre COVID or it was, it
Speaker 2: was auton arize a little bit anyway, but to call
Speaker 2: it from the financial crisis till twenty eighteen or so.
Speaker 2: And now we've got a supply problem, right, and they're
Speaker 2: equally problems like you know in COVID. You know, we
Speaker 2: had a demand problem that turned into a supply chain
Speaker 2: problem because of all the issues around it. That's what's
Speaker 2: going on here. Like I'm you know, I've been in
Speaker 2: markets when all life and and something's got to give, right,
Speaker 2: and so you know, how do you cure.
Speaker 6: Supplying a man?
Speaker 2: Well, if there's an undersupply, you're going to sort of
Speaker 2: pay more and you know, create more supply. And and
Speaker 2: I just think I think we're under resourced and probably
Speaker 2: undervalued as a profession and and that needs that needs
Speaker 2: to change. And I think awareness is the beginning of
Speaker 2: that and then the reality of dealing with it. And
Speaker 2: we're seeing that again. I'd say, there's green shoots people.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm asked to speak about a lot. I've
Speaker 2: spoken at you know, various kind of you know, whatever
Speaker 2: it's the m G a annual meeting to you know
Speaker 2: of club presidents, that kind of thing to talk and
Speaker 2: talk about it.
Speaker 6: And and so I hope, I think we're having an impact.
Speaker 2: And that's what like, that's our job, right, We're a
Speaker 2: fiduciary of a perpetual institution.
Speaker 8: And and we need to you know, make sure that
Speaker 8: as a national entity that we can do certain things
Speaker 8: to to to promote the game, promote our members.
Speaker 2: And and there's no bigger crisis from our perspective, that's
Speaker 2: our crisis.
Speaker 6: Now in the industry. In my view, it's not a
Speaker 6: demand problem, it's a supply problem.
Speaker 4: Is unionizing an option, you know, I.
Speaker 6: Like to think that you can do it without that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not a not anti union, but I
Speaker 2: think I think, you know, I am a I am
Speaker 2: a market sky, right, like, I believe in supplying demand
Speaker 2: and markets.
Speaker 6: If you have a free market, they correct themselves.
Speaker 2: And and so I'd rather have that be the solution
Speaker 2: than some you know, you know, some sort of manufactured solution.
Speaker 2: I just think, you know, owners need to need to
Speaker 2: take care of their assets, and their assets the biggest
Speaker 2: asset in any industry I've ever been in any business
Speaker 2: anywhere or its people right, and so making sure they're
Speaker 2: value properly is the first that right.
Speaker 4: Is this fun for you?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean my wife Jane might have a different answer
Speaker 2: than mine because she watches, you know, it all go on.
Speaker 1: But it.
Speaker 6: I love a challenge.
Speaker 2: I'm much better if I have twenty things going on,
Speaker 2: and if I have one, I might get a little
Speaker 2: little floppy and lazy if I only have one.
Speaker 6: If I have twenty, I know I have to kind
Speaker 6: of go at them all.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm pretty good at having fun. But you know,
Speaker 2: I it's it's probably the most fulfilling job I've ever had,
Speaker 2: Let's put it that way. And it hasn't been without
Speaker 2: its challenges. And you know, we're we're a have historically
Speaker 2: been a little bit of a slow moving institution and
Speaker 2: we're trying to pick what we need to pick up
Speaker 2: the pace in order to deal with a lot of
Speaker 2: these things. And I think we're getting better at that.
Speaker 6: I've got really good people that work with me.
Speaker 2: And you know, the rewards are the sneaky ones, like
Speaker 2: everybody says, oh, you know you're in and out of
Speaker 2: right cup trophy or whatever.
Speaker 6: That's cool.
Speaker 2: That's great, but like you know, the day to day
Speaker 2: when you bump into a professional somewhere who recognizes you
Speaker 2: and says, hey, thank you for doing I really appreciate
Speaker 2: what you're doing for the institution, or going to our
Speaker 2: PGA Works Championship where you know, we it's essentially the
Speaker 2: hbcu UH National Championship, which we've taken over and see
Speaker 2: you know, having a workshop and seeing the hope and
Speaker 2: those kids and what you're doing. I'm going to the
Speaker 2: Junior League National Championship this week in Scottsdale at Greyhawk
Speaker 2: and seeing those kids out there. So it's these these
Speaker 2: moments that aren't on TV frankly, that are the ones that.
Speaker 6: Keep coming back.
Speaker 2: And the people that you meet, I mean, are you know,
Speaker 2: we talked about it already, but like you know, our
Speaker 2: people are put on earth to make everybody's lives better, right, Like,
Speaker 2: how can you not want to be surrounded by those people?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: And And that's what the PGA professional is and it
Speaker 2: you know, it's not perfect.
Speaker 6: We're not perfect.
Speaker 2: I'm far from perfect, you know, if you've been competent
Speaker 2: and but we're you know, I feel like we've were
Speaker 2: moving the needle, making a lot of progress, and I
Speaker 2: hope people are noticing it.
Speaker 6: But you know that's not the point either, right. The
Speaker 6: point is.
Speaker 2: Leaving the room better, and I'm going to keep fighting
Speaker 2: to do that every day.
Speaker 4: The Shane Ryan article specifically highlighting all these different examples
Speaker 4: or or these people's stories. And I've heard from a
Speaker 4: lot of people that you meet with small groups from
Speaker 4: time to time or invite groups and try to get feedback.
Speaker 4: Is that sort of part of your process? Is just listen?
Speaker 4: You doing a lot of listening obviously.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, I've never walked in their shoes, right, I've been
Speaker 2: a member of great places. I know a bunch of
Speaker 2: I knew coming in, a bunch of amazing pros, some
Speaker 2: of the best on earth.
Speaker 6: Right, I've been lucky enough to be around.
Speaker 2: Them, and and but I'm trying to understand, you know,
Speaker 2: every you know, walking in everybody's shoes. So you know,
Speaker 2: I try to be with as many members as I
Speaker 2: can be with in every form to understand, you know,
Speaker 2: what their life is like and how do how do
Speaker 2: we how do we make it better? So you know,
Speaker 2: I have always had this belief in business that even
Speaker 2: running a bank, which I was lucky enough to do. Like,
Speaker 2: it's not diving to run in a restaurant, right, Like
Speaker 2: you've got to be out there and and and see
Speaker 2: what the you know, the customers are ordering, Like is
Speaker 2: the you know, this is the stake medium rare and
Speaker 2: the salad cold? And who's on the cash register? And
Speaker 2: you know, what's the experience of your of your customers, right?
Speaker 2: And so I always try to spend fifty percent of
Speaker 2: my time with clients when I was at the bank,
Speaker 2: because that was how I got to know what was
Speaker 2: going on in the markets, what my you know, what
Speaker 2: what we were serving, how good are people were, uh,
Speaker 2: and what they needed? Right, And so I think it's
Speaker 2: the same thing here, like trying to be out in
Speaker 2: the field and experiencing it and understanding it.
Speaker 6: There's the only way that you can really I mean,
Speaker 6: I can have a theory around.
Speaker 2: It, but I've also got to have a reality about
Speaker 2: how it works. So I invited all the time, and
Speaker 2: you know, if somebody stops me to talk, I you know,
Speaker 2: I'm late for my next meeting, because I feel like
Speaker 2: that's the most important thing to do at that moment
Speaker 2: is learned from that person, and particularly if they have issues,
Speaker 2: you know, we and obviously.
Speaker 6: During the you know, the COVID crisis was.
Speaker 2: It went from you know, oh my god, we're shutting down,
Speaker 2: to how are we going to make a living?
Speaker 6: To okay, we reopened it. That's awesome.
Speaker 2: But now our pros were like, wait a second, we're
Speaker 2: front line workers, Like nobody else is going to the supermarket,
Speaker 2: and yet we're out here, you know, servicing people and
Speaker 2: putting ourselves at risk, and so how do we make
Speaker 2: them safe? And then how do we get the game
Speaker 2: to come back and the way we did, and then
Speaker 2: how do we deal with this incredible boom that has
Speaker 2: happened because I think, you know, we were.
Speaker 6: Intentional about bringing the game back, and I think, you.
Speaker 2: Know, all of Golf's you know, sort of not all
Speaker 2: of them, but a lot of the sort of barriers
Speaker 2: became positives. It's like, okay, takes too long, right, Well
Speaker 2: maybe that's okay, Maybe maybe I do need a four
Speaker 2: hour walk and uh and you know it's it's outdoors
Speaker 2: and like that's a good thing, and you know, so
Speaker 2: it it. I think we've flipped the prism on the game.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, the greatest thing about what's
Speaker 2: going on right now matt Is. The game has had
Speaker 2: its ups and downs, for sure, but for the first time,
Speaker 2: and it's it's it's history.
Speaker 6: Golf is cool, and golf's never been cool.
Speaker 2: Right, And and that's awesome, and we need to make
Speaker 2: sure we continue to promote that, right and have all
Speaker 2: these different ways to consume it now, Right, you have
Speaker 2: top golf, you have put and all kinds of different
Speaker 2: forms you've got you know, simulators you've got And I again,
Speaker 2: I've always believed, like you know, if you go shoot
Speaker 2: hoops in your backyard, you played basketball that day. It
Speaker 2: wasn't five on five with reps, right, but it was
Speaker 2: it was it was hoops. And and so you know,
Speaker 2: if you put on your carpet today you play golf
Speaker 2: and and you know, and you took up you know,
Speaker 2: check out your swinging in a mirror like you play
Speaker 2: golf that day.
Speaker 6: And we've got.
Speaker 2: To embrace it in every form we possibly can't part threes,
Speaker 2: you know, three holes, you know, hitting balls in the
Speaker 2: way like yes, like work for all of it every day.
Speaker 2: Anything that is good for the game is ultimately good
Speaker 2: for our professionals.
Speaker 6: And and and.
Speaker 2: So we're going to promote it and every way we
Speaker 2: can and celebrate it and every way we can. We're
Speaker 2: trying to create, you know, a digital platform that you know,
Speaker 2: that becomes the kind of you know, digital highway for
Speaker 2: our professionals and something that are know, I'm not even
Speaker 2: sure they know they need yet, but like we got
Speaker 2: to create it because that's that's where the puck's going.
Speaker 6: And uh.
Speaker 2: And so we're going to keep trying to you know,
Speaker 2: you know, be forward thinking and innovative and again create
Speaker 2: the game for our kids' kids.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 4: I've spent a lot of time promoting superintendents because in
Speaker 4: my mind, I'm kind of a superintendent of heart. If
Speaker 4: I wasn't, if I didn't get a job at sports,
Speaker 4: I ollciat I was going to go to Penn State
Speaker 4: Agronomy school. So I've always and I grew up with
Speaker 4: a club pro who was kind of a dick, you know,
Speaker 4: he was kind of played head games and took golf
Speaker 4: away from us, free golf. He was like he was
Speaker 4: like he was squeezing us, you know what. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: it wasn't a good guy. And and so I think
Speaker 4: that probably had a little impact in sort of my
Speaker 4: perception of the end, you know, like, oh, that guy's
Speaker 4: just working everybody to the bone and not giving any
Speaker 4: you know. And and he wasn't a good He was
Speaker 4: good people person to the members, but not to his staff. Right,
Speaker 4: there's there a difference, Right, some people can do And
Speaker 4: I just think for whatever reason, maybe that was a
Speaker 4: subconscious sort of gap for me. And now I'm learning
Speaker 4: a lot.
Speaker 6: Well it's sad, you know.
Speaker 2: Again, father's a teacher and coach, and my kids have
Speaker 2: had a variety of coaches. And I think the worst
Speaker 2: thing that a coach could ever do, you know, as
Speaker 2: a coach, is is drive somebody away from a game.
Speaker 2: Like you know, when I coached literally or whatever, it
Speaker 2: was always like I'm going to coach the worst.
Speaker 6: Kid because the best kid's gonna be fine, They're going
Speaker 6: to figure it out.
Speaker 2: The worst kid, I want to keep them in the
Speaker 2: game or her in the game for as long as
Speaker 2: I can. And and I think, you know, the best
Speaker 2: pros or that right, the best pros. And back in
Speaker 2: the day, you know, if you think about a small
Speaker 2: town like who who was the center of that town?
Speaker 2: It was like a doctor and a lawyer and you know,
Speaker 2: and probably the you know, chief of police and the
Speaker 2: high school football coach and kind of the golf pro
Speaker 2: right because he or she could hit a seven iron
Speaker 2: and you wanted that magic sauce, right of how does
Speaker 2: that work? And by the way, they were surrounded by
Speaker 2: you know, probably the most influential people in town because
Speaker 2: of the people that play golf, and so you know,
Speaker 2: they they were the center of kind of you know,
Speaker 2: one of the centers of the universe and in these places.
Speaker 2: And and I think that's been lost because it's become
Speaker 2: a business, right and like everything else, you kind of
Speaker 2: everything's transactional now as opposed to a relationship, and and
Speaker 2: you know, we need to get back to that. I
Speaker 2: you know, this is off the subject, but I sort
Speaker 2: of feel like, you know, gratitude is being replaced with entitlement, right,
Speaker 2: and and that is really scary because gratitude is what
Speaker 2: you know, makes societies work, and it's what like creates civilizations,
Speaker 2: right and while we have cities and and uh, and
Speaker 2: you know, if we if we lose that and just
Speaker 2: assume we're entitled to something like I should be able
Speaker 2: to hit a seven iron, like you know, you got
Speaker 2: to you gotta do the sit ups, right, you like,
Speaker 2: you know you're going to have to figure out how
Speaker 2: to hissda and that's.
Speaker 6: The beauty of the thing.
Speaker 4: But anyway, no, I thanks again for all this. I
Speaker 4: not not on subject, but I just can't help but
Speaker 4: feel And I know you're in the middle of this
Speaker 4: whole storm too, but I based on just all that
Speaker 4: you say and just kind of agents of change and
Speaker 4: just disruption, and you know, I got to feel like
Speaker 4: you're out of this fight, right as in terms of
Speaker 4: Live and the tour, right, I mean, I feel like,
Speaker 4: why would the PGA of America. My sense is let
Speaker 4: it all shake out? But your focus is on your membership, right,
Speaker 4: Like would that be would that be fair to say
Speaker 4: like you don't want to? I mean why would I?
Speaker 2: Well, look, I think that would be short sighted, right
Speaker 2: because at the end of the day, I'm for the ecosystem.
Speaker 2: I'm for all things that are good for golf. If
Speaker 2: I thought Live was a superior product and they were
Speaker 2: really delivering something, I might actually embrace it because it
Speaker 2: would be good for the game. And I don't think
Speaker 2: it is right. I think it's getting away, you know, certainly,
Speaker 2: I think the product that they're putting out and you know,
Speaker 2: fifty four holes and shock and start like all that
Speaker 2: can a you know, sort of arguing one way or another.
Speaker 2: But I don't think it's superior, Like I don't think
Speaker 2: like that. That's you know, game changing in and of itself.
Speaker 2: And as I said before, like I've lived in a
Speaker 2: world of disruption. I believe in disruption. I invite disruption.
Speaker 2: I used to run an exercise at the bank where
Speaker 2: you know, I'd say, okay, let's assume you know, we're
Speaker 2: going to do an MBO of ourselves, so we're going
Speaker 2: to own them, Like what would we do differently? How
Speaker 2: would we make ourselves more efficient? What will we cut out,
Speaker 2: what will we emphasize? What will we do Because if
Speaker 2: we don't do that, somebody is going to do it
Speaker 2: for us, right, some outside influence is going to do that.
Speaker 2: So I think, like at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: you know, Live is strangely a backhanded compliment to the game,
Speaker 2: right because for the first time ever, it's cool, first
Speaker 2: time ever, it's big enough that somebody really wants to
Speaker 2: disrupt it and come in and take advantage of, you know,
Speaker 2: being a fat and happy game, if you will. And
Speaker 2: it's not a Christmas of the tour, it's a Christmas
Speaker 2: of the whole game. And so you know, what does
Speaker 2: disruption do to runs you over? You make yourself better
Speaker 2: and and that's what has to happen. And by the way,
Speaker 2: you know, Okay, so yeah, day to day, I'm focused
Speaker 2: on exactly what we talked about, right, like it is
Speaker 2: the game, but twice, you know, twice a year in
Speaker 2: the form of the Men's Game, you know, or once
Speaker 2: every other year, and then you know, in the form
Speaker 2: of the Ryder Cup and in the PGA Championship, Like
Speaker 2: you know, we're the center of the universe, right and
Speaker 2: and those if you think about five waterfront properties, the
Speaker 2: four majors in the Ryder Cup, in the Men's game, anyway,
Speaker 2: we own forty percent of them, right and or not
Speaker 2: really because we're own half of the Ryder Cup. But
Speaker 2: but you understand my point. And so yeah, I care
Speaker 2: about the ecosystem because my fiduciary responsibility is too is
Speaker 2: to you know, make take a perpetual institution and put
Speaker 2: it on a better course, not somehow put it at risk,
Speaker 2: right and and our you know, we're able to do
Speaker 2: all that we do for the game because we're looking
Speaker 2: to have to have assets and you know, the KPMG
Speaker 2: Women's that Men Senior, like a lot of those things
Speaker 2: which allow us to do, you know, all these other
Speaker 2: amazing things like the PJ Works Championship and where we're
Speaker 2: trying to endow h P you know, HBCU golf programs
Speaker 2: around the country because.
Speaker 6: We have that platform. Funeral League.
Speaker 2: Again, I talked about what I think is the coolest
Speaker 2: thing in golf and one of the great golf you know,
Speaker 2: engines in the game for growth, and and so I've
Speaker 2: got to be thinking about all those things, like how
Speaker 2: do I protect those assets because without those assets, we're.
Speaker 6: Not we're not functional, and we're certainly not perpetual.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, we're we're not in there, you know,
Speaker 2: like Jay every day going hand to hand. But am I,
Speaker 2: you know, thinking about it, having a lot of conversations,
Speaker 2: doing everything I can to you know, leave the room
Speaker 2: better than I found it one hundred percent. And and
Speaker 2: you know, I've spent an enormous amount of time on it,
Speaker 2: and I think I still will. But I'm hopeful in
Speaker 2: the sense that, you know, if we get this right,
Speaker 2: and you know, spend a lot of time talking to
Speaker 2: players and the tigers and the roories of the world
Speaker 2: and you know, and others and trying to figure it
Speaker 2: all out so that we can you know, learn from
Speaker 2: this and make ourselves better rather than you know, get
Speaker 2: destroyed by it.
Speaker 4: Quite a dynamic time. Again. I think we have the
Speaker 4: right in you. We have someone who's obviously, uh incredibly
Speaker 4: you know, I've your well positioned to have an incredible
Speaker 4: impact in so many ways and shapes and forms. So
Speaker 4: whatever I can do to help you or support you,
Speaker 4: I I you know, I'm always I'm always in. I'm
Speaker 4: a I'm a fan and in the man club of
Speaker 4: your vision and execution and your style. And you know,
Speaker 4: so it's cool, keep going for God speaking God speak, Well.
Speaker 6: It takes takes the village man. But you know, if
Speaker 6: you if you you know, if you're going to play football,
Speaker 6: tackle football, you.
Speaker 2: Gotta play tackle football like otherwise you're playing in traffic,
Speaker 2: right and and so get your uniform dirty and and
Speaker 2: hit and be hit and and this tackle football like
Speaker 2: the whole you know, this whole. And I don't mean
Speaker 2: just live, I just mean the whole thing is right.
Speaker 2: And so if I'm me, I'm all in. I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna you know, you can't the guy that the guy's
Speaker 2: afraid to, you know, get hit as the one that's
Speaker 2: gonna get hurt, right.
Speaker 4: Amazing. We'll give my best to Jane and and thanks
Speaker 4: again for this time, Seth. I really appreciate it. I know,
Speaker 4: I know you're going a mile million miles, but in
Speaker 4: a lot of different directions. But thank you for this.
Speaker 6: So oh good man. Thanks brother prop a cross Paw
Speaker 6: assume absolutely look forward to see man. Thank you.
Speaker 4: Next up more on the future of club pros.
Speaker 5: You know, one thing that Tom Wallace told me is
Speaker 5: that when you find boards with younger people, you know,
Speaker 5: the golf club boards with younger people, they get it more.
Speaker 5: So it's a generational thing a little bit too. And
Speaker 5: I think that, you know, obviously we all get older
Speaker 5: and that's going to change with time.
Speaker 4: So I think there is hope for sure.
Speaker 5: I think it's a hard situation and there's reasons to
Speaker 5: be pessimistic, there's reasons to be cynical, but I do
Speaker 5: think there's reasons for hope as well.
Speaker 4: And we talked to Brian Soulet, a PGA professional and
Speaker 4: an assistant teaching professor at Penn State's PGA Golf Management Program.
Speaker 9: Fifty five percent of PGA professionals are fifty five years
Speaker 9: or older. So there's an old school mentality that I
Speaker 9: think was perpetuated forever in this industry. And I'm hoping
Speaker 9: that that that the changing of the guard allows for
Speaker 9: the younger generation of PGA professionals to say, you know what,
Speaker 9: the way we've always done it isn't right. We need
Speaker 9: to change it. And I'm excited for that. I think
Speaker 9: that that you're seeing some young minds come into the
Speaker 9: industry that are that are fighting for, you know, for
Speaker 9: some more balance. I think that's a really good thing.
Speaker 4: And episode six is all Susie Whaley, who after one
Speaker 4: hundred and two years, served as the first female president
Speaker 4: of the PGA of America. When you're saying all that,
Speaker 4: are you are you directly referring to women? Are you
Speaker 4: referring to women in golf? Are you referring to women
Speaker 4: in golf? Or are you referring to PGA you know,
Speaker 4: PGA pros. Are you like or is it kind of
Speaker 4: all of it like you want?
Speaker 10: Yes, yes, you just forgot the media. That is the
Speaker 10: bucket in there too. And again, I look at this,
Speaker 10: it's not a it's not a it's something that I'm
Speaker 10: about it's not sending them saying negatively. It's just I think,
Speaker 10: you know, I think a lot of us are just
Speaker 10: tired of saying we're grateful for the opportunity, and yeah,
Speaker 10: that's where women come in. Right, I'm done with hearing
Speaker 10: about why don't more people watch the LPGA. Well, where
Speaker 10: are we supposed to watch them? You know, where are they?
Speaker 10: Where are we seeing them? I mean, if you look
Speaker 10: at the paper, I won't if they're in it. If
Speaker 10: you look in any digital publication, not the paper, that's
Speaker 10: how we'll dam any digital publication, right, any any Twitter feed?
Speaker 10: I mean, does anybody know who won the last three
Speaker 10: LPGA event?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 10: Honestly, like it's it's actually appalling to me. And I
Speaker 10: don't think it's necessarily intentional. I just think it's our
Speaker 10: culture in the game that needs to be changed. When
Speaker 10: people talk about the game, they talk about the professional
Speaker 10: men's game.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 10: When I have conversations with my juniors, I always say,
Speaker 10: who's your favorite female player?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 10: My juniors now know that, right, there's so many young
Speaker 10: girls playing and so many boys now watching women's go.
Speaker 10: But I don't understand why we're not seeing it more
Speaker 10: and Why is only five percent of media publications on
Speaker 10: women's sports in general?
Speaker 6: Why is that? That's just a question right.
Speaker 10: For people that lookay, that's where I get all the
Speaker 10: king on Twitter, Like people will write me back a
Speaker 10: thousand reasons why right, but none of them make any sense,
Speaker 10: Like that doesn't mean make sense just because you like
Speaker 10: to watch men's Okay, good, how are you glad to
Speaker 10: watch men's sports? But I watched men's sports and women
Speaker 10: sports and some of these different women, like women need
Speaker 10: to watch women's sports. This isn't all on men, right,
Speaker 10: we all we all just need to participate in it.
Speaker 10: And so I think when you ask me what is
Speaker 10: that all about? You know, it's about making sure that
Speaker 10: the next generation has it better than we have. Right,
Speaker 10: the next generation is that to fight so hard? And
Speaker 10: I'm here to tell you in golf women have to
Speaker 10: fight really hard. And there is space for women and
Speaker 10: there is space for junior girls in golf. We shouldn't
Speaker 10: have to fight this hard.
Speaker 7: Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is to
Speaker 7: get the time